##VIDEO ID:8ke6STuROm0## good evening everyone good evening I'd like to call this community relations committee meeting to order it's uh 6 o' 601 this meeting is being recorded by the community relations committee if any other persons present are doing the same you must notify the chairperson at this time right no one else is doing their thing um then we will do a roll call we've got all of our committee members here do we no yeah who is not remote so we can actually do a Voice vote so thank you all for being here if anybody wants to be part of public comments um please sign up and for Zoom um uh we'll just have to have you put it in the chat since there isn't a place to to do that so we'll have time today for public comment so I will take a roll call of members oh and we will have to do it um because of coun being here all right so counselor Gilmore councelor Healey here councelor Brown here councelor Perry here C wowski I'm here okay so our first item is the approval of minutes from the July 15th meeting can I have a motion please I I make a motion to approve the minutes for the July 15th meeting second any discussion all right so we'll have to take a roll call again councelor Healey yes councelor Brown yes counselor Perry yes and I am a yes all right we're doing well okay my my my first time chairing this committee so you know rough day so our next item is public comment we're going to give um and Ken we've got time on the agenda for um the discussion about the benches so you don't have to do it in public comment unless you want to do both all right so I'm GNA give everybody two minutes each for your public comment um and you can come up to the chair when you're called up and when you come up I just need you to state your name and your address for the record so Emily ker thank you Emily amazing how that works hi thanks for being here my name is Emily Kester I live at 87 Davis Street in Greenfield and I'm here to speak in support of the climate resolution that's being um brought before this um I recognize that you know a small city of what 15,000 um isn't going to make a huge dent in um climate change one way or another but I think that that it's very um it's very important as a as a as a symbol of of our commitment and and also that it can be a domino effect if we do it and other communities do it then it can have a large impact so I'm in support so thank you for bringing it forward thank you uh do you want to be part of public comment sir we have a signup sheet so add you okay um next person is Bram morenus I hi I'm Bram marinus I live in Greenfield and uh am like Emily one of the organizers Myrtle Street and like Emily one of the organizers of resilient Greenfield which started with the question uh given the impact of the climate on our society how can we be ready how can we build social resilience um because we're going to need it um so I'm really in support of uh councelor wallowski's climate resolution um like Emily I I don't know that we're going to be able to keep things below 1.5 degrees the work of our town uh but what I love to see is once the uh City elevates the sense of that there's an emergency and that we need to do something about it it opens up the way for more citizens groups who have some role to play in making us more resilient and using the climate as a backdrop to the work that we do uh to have the ear and perhaps support of the city so that's why I really support this res solution um I also not as resilient Greenfield but just as myself uh about the benches um I go on Hikes with my dog and now because she has hyp displasia myself all the time and I always end up in May sever day uh because you can have dog outside um and I'm always walking through that area and sometimes engaging with the folks at the tables um I was sad to see them go the tables um and I'm just curious uh what problem were we hoping to solve by removing the tables if the problem wasn't the benches and the tables but the individuals who were there was there some other way to resolve it that could leave the benches and the tables because I think it's nice to have them um I'm complete thank you we have next next is Christen oh we're skipping over skipping over um oh John gett hello John Garrett 93 Hope Street here in Greenfield I just wanted to speak briefly about both resolutions on the table so the climate resolution I am fully in support of and I would love to see pass I see it as almost a thesis statement for the city you know meaning like this is our mission this is something that's going to be a reason to focus on certain policies in the future because we've made this statement so I think that's really valuable as a thing we can continue coming back to as a city government and as the other speakers have said as a community so it gives us all kind of a guiding star to look at um I sponsored the Northern Tier passenger rail resolution in response to basically the two or three rather members of the state legislature coming and answering our questions when I ask them hey what can we do as a community support the Northern Tier resolution I'm sorry the Northern Tier service which would be you know going from Boston to North Adams they said basically saying something like a resolution of the state before the budget season in January would be the best thing that we could do um I was frankly going to add it as a discussion item in December and then I saw that North Adams had already passed a resolution so I just blatantly copied it I emailed them and I said hey do you mind if I do this they said yes by all means and so I copied it basically changed a couple things and be more Green Field appropriate and I hope you guys see it in your wisdom to support it you know having passenger rail would be huge and tie into these climate goals that I hope the city's going to be following um as far as the ventes are concerned I was also upset to see them go um one of the things you know again talking about like thesis statements you know again what's our mission as a city having our downtown be beautiful and welcoming to everyone I think is a thing that we all want to focus on as a city including the mayor um and uh yeah so I I hope that was this is the beginning of a conversation and not the end of one regarding that area of town so that's all I've got but thank you guys thank you and I'll see you all the next couple days next is stage hello my name is sageo I live in Northampton but I am about to be a business owner in Greenfield should I tell you my Northampton address yes please okay 55 Golden Drive Florence um so starting in December I'm going to be a business owner of what was formerly 10 forward um so I'm coming here also to talk about the benches and the tables um the first people that welcomed me into the space were actually the unhoused community those are the people who came introduce themselves show me kindness um and taking away something like this impacts everyone in the city and in this physical space so I'm just concerned that um these items were removed what the goal of that was and how that will impact everyone in the city but also just like the blatant like anti-homelessness um of doing something like that um it's not solving the problem that PE people are seeing people as a problem as opposed to homelessness and struggling with that as a problem um so yeah I was just I was concerned and confused by that decision right thank you you he um my name is Eli Smith I live in Turner Falls but I'm a worker owner of the compost Cooperative which is on River Street in Greenfield um and I wanted to come to speak in favor of um the Declaration of a Environmental emergency um obviously like our business is to collect compost and to um try and reduce our trash um our waste in this system and to create a product that will uh improve our environment with a lot of that waste instead so it's like totally within our mission to support this and we really hope the town does do this um and we see it's just just really important to prioritize that and like name it explicitly um and also that the northern tior passenger rail um as someone said before me like fits perfectly within that especially if it could be electrified that is an amazing step towards um climate goals and just Improvement of our community I think that travel would be amazingly helpful for anyone without vehicles I think you know we should prioritize public transit like that because um there are a lot of people who don't have cars and right now a car is just the best way to get to Boston right now unfortunately yeah that's all I have thank you that's on the list that's the end unless other folks right want to sign up for public anyone a is anybody in the zoom room wish to be part of public comment if so you can unmute yourself and you'll have two minutes so you might have to say that again because somebody just joined okay one more time is anybody in the virtual world wish to be part of public comment if so you can unmute yourself and now is the time all right it is 6:14 and we're ending the public comment period thank you all for participating really appreciate hearing from everybody so next on our agenda is the city council order um that is the resolution declar ing a climate emergency could I have somebody read this motion please I guess I the city council move that it be this is order number FY 25020 the city council moved that it be ordered that the Greenfield city council approves the attached resolution titled resolution declaring a climate emergency uh majority vote required I have to read the whole thing no okay we good on that part thank you so as a body we we read it first and it's going to go to the full Council we can make a recommendation as a committee if we recommend that the full Council pass this or not so um we would need a motion to recommend it if somebody wants to do so motion second and is there any discussion seems great we like this yeah I like what John said that this is like a a mission statement and then we can be making um choices according to this there might be a little bit more discussion uh in front the full Council and that's fine my my understanding in bringing this forward is from talking to city employees this gives them um the ability to move forward on some of the things that they've been proposing and you know our cities and towns have a lot that they can do that help us with the climate crisis and given and I'll say this on Wednesday but the flooding that we've seen here in Greenfield um all of the issu isues that we've seen around the country and wildfires popping up again so we we're not immune to it and it is like a Public Health crisis because this affects People's Health for sure um now and into the future and we're an aging population that is much more at risk for the effects of heat related um illness so thank you all um we can take a vote to put it forward and just one other comment is that I'm attending the Green community Summit that the mass Municipal Association is hosting on Friday um and I'm hoping to learn more there about the um green community's designation and the climate leader designation and um those applications are due by the end of this year so can start I'm setting up a meeting with Carol Cleveland's the sustainability director and I'm hoping that yeah we can get involved and open up those Municipal grants yeah in the green communities we've been a member since like one of the first cities in the Commonwealth so pretty good not bad not bad so um we're gonna uh take a roll call on this uh because we have to so councelor Healey yes councelor Brown yes councelor Perry yes and I'm a yes okay so we will be forwarding that recommendation so the next Motion in front of us is the Northern Tier support could I have a counselor read on this order which is order number FY 25021 the city council moved that it be ordered that the Greenfield city council approves the attached resolution entitled resolution for Northern Tier support a majority vote will be required right any discussion do we want to uh do the same as we just did with the uh I make a motion that we recommend that we forward this to the full Council second any discussion all right let's let's go for a vote all right counselor Healey yes thank you counc Brown yes counselor Perry yes and I am a yes all right so we will be recommending the Northern Tier as well all right now we're at the uh meet and tofu of the meeting to discuss the uh the benches so the process that I'd like to follow this evening if it's okay with everybody um is to have uh even mayor and chief Dodge um for about five 10 minutes however long uh little bit of time just talk about what happened um reasoning on that and then I've asked um Kristen to also talk to us a little bit about her perspective um working with the community we're not making any decisions here where we can't reverse anything um there could be recommendations that came out of this committee but really our we want to open up a community conversation because um this happened really rapidly and uh it was voted on the city council to bring it back to community relations for discussion sound good all right and if there are folks in the room who have perspectives I might call on you to do that but usually our rules are we're not like doing cross conversation um unless there's expertise to bring in all right so mayor and chief thank you for being here so I will I'll start um so um this I'm I'm delighted that we're that we're all here tonight talking about this first I'll say that and thank you for everybody for coming out this was something that it wasn't probably as quickly as it looked I just wanted to say that to start um and as I said in that meeting that was a really very difficult decision for me to make but it started the end of June um or sometime in June that um we were getting uh multiple complaints from different um folks and there were people that were having trouble getting their strollers uh you know walking the strollers or um having you know access on the sidewalk down on mil Street I've spent a lot of time down there I know probably half the folks that are there I've been down there talking with them having lunch when we sitting with everybody so I feel like I know a lot of the people that are there too and they are our neighbors and they're here in our community and that was it was it was difficult we had more and more problems that sort of kept escalating there and um it was something that we I reached out to I'm not going to say her name but someone from Community Action that was over talking with the folks that were there um because everybody actually has a right to be you know they have a right to be where they are so we were trying to do something so when I the f one of the first things that happened was um after several incidents I shut off the um the charger where people plug in their phones and um and I told everybody that we ordered another solar charger for down at energy Park um and um but it was actually the you know the Pres on the the sidewalk that was um so it was not going from here to there in a rapid rapid um in any rapid steps I think it was two and a half months I was you know talked to um Economic Development um Sean I say name she was out there visiting with folks tell them some of the things that were happening and so and we went a couple more Adera chairs down at energy Park I had told everybody that you actually can't say to somebody maybe you could go down there but it was actually it was an impediment to people getting by in the sidewalk M and I will let the chief go to some of the events that we had happened there but I just I just wanted you to know from a personal perspective that was not a decision that was made lightly it was very difficult for me during covid I spent the hours down at energy park with people bringing water you know taking you know worrying about where everybody was going to be and I thought when we first removed them everybody kind of you know just moved over just a little bit but it it uh I'm going to let the chief talk about some of the stuff but actually went on for why you would get to a decision that actually seems like it's really quick but it wasn't quick it was two and a half months talking about things that we could do that would make people feel a little bit more welcome in a different spot and certainly talking to the people that were there and so but I'm going to let you Chief talk a little bit more about some of the stuff that was going on that led us to this what might have seemed like a hasty decision but it was something that I signed off on at 3:30 in the morning because I couldn't go to sleep thinking about it and I think we should all know that about each other that was I was that's where we are go ahead so again um it is absolutely a perspective issue 100% uh but to bring more to the table this is much longer than even a two and a half month discussion so I've been here for 27 years patrolling the streets of rainfield I would like to bet that there's not many faces out there that I don't know and who don't call me Todd and I don't ask them to call me anything other um I treat people fairly what what burns my blood is when people continue to label this an anti-homeless issue this has nothing to do with that the word homeless or on house came in from other people not us I just want to make that extremely clear we were not in any way shape or form discriminating against unhoused people this had nothing to do with that um in fact I think our agency ahead of many in this community do things for the unhoused probably far more than any other agency does uh we're constantly interacting with them we're constantly bringing them supplies tents sleeping bags sweatshirts we're not anti-homeless so please stop with that it's not that what we were dealing with was a park like activities being done on a sidewalk we can't do that and again and you guys are know you guys in city council now I'm sure are very well aware for every one person you make happy you make one person mad there's just simply no way to do anything different than that our goal is to make if we make one person mad maybe we can make 1.1 happy and then we got the majority I don't know this particular case um I've sat in all the meetings yes there are people who are absolutely upset with us because we decided to move the benches first and foremost it was me pleading with the mayor after 27 years of experience working in Greenfield exclusively begging her in person via email to please listen to me and move the benches they never accomplished what the original objective is the original objective is a group of people strolling down Main Street shopping who have a coffee who want to stop talk read the it never ends up like that it's not what we're going to get what I also explained was they are doing parklike activities on a sidewalk I'm not opposed to these people being in Greenfield just they can't do what they're doing right there we had constant calls for service at the benches the these were medical emergencies these were fights these were people with weapons people selling drugs people doing drugs we're constantly at the benches in Greenfield the bigger part and really the only part that we were focused on is creating a downtown that is inviting to everybody not just the people sitting at the benches but people who are traveling through Greenfield or potentially setting up shop in Greenfield or who wanted to walk the streets of Greenfield to shop we needed to do something about that one particular area the mayor can can affirm what I'm saying we didn't never once said we need to eradicate these people we said we need to move them off of a sidewalk we both talked the entire time about just putting him into the pocket park if they're going to be running around and kicking their feet I know no one wants to talk about this but stuff was happening on the sidewalk that can't happen on sidewalks plain and simple and yes people couldn't push their strollers pie people were going to the bathroom right on the side of the road when people were trying to navigate the sidewalks they're now down in the pocket park I see we watch this every day and it's fine and since these individuals started hanging out in the pocket park they we haven't said a word to them so we're not anti on house we're not anti this group of people we just needed them to get off the sidewalk to set up that sort of system on the side of a sidewalk was counterproductive and it's been counterproductive for decades we've we've crossed this a million times if you guys look at the Vets Mall the Vets Mall used to have seeding around all the Planters if you look now they're all rod iron fences around the Planters because the same thing was happening so decades ago that was an attack on on the vet mall to try to keep a clean vet mall is put these Planters around it so it's not seaing area cuz with their bags they throw their trash in it they do all this stuff now we had asked them countless times to just follow some very particular rules here stop throwing your trash stop littering the place stop fighting stop throwing and they and it didn't happen so like I said I explained to the mayor and we had this conversation I said the the stuff they're doing in that particular location we have many places for in this town they're called parks and that's where they need to go was Parks so the pocket park was right there and they're at the pocket park every single day still adding to that we were dealing with 300 plus calls for service just there every single month that's not us calling us to go there people are calling us to go there that's how police Works we're dispatched down there for you another fight for another person out of control for another this another that the statistic ially now that's cut down to thirds so since we moved these benches we're dealing with the people who people don't want us to deal with less if you can get what I'm saying some people don't want us in these people's business well we're not there anymore because we're not we don't have a reason to be people are not calling us anymore so our calls for Service downtown have been cut in thirds to me that's a success and guess what the people are still live they just moved over about 80t and can I there were you know drug deals that were happening right there people that were using the complaints from families um and you know fights and arrests that were happening you know because of the activity which it's those things are going to be somewhere but it was it it's really very hard to balance and make these decisions but there were an escalating of all of the you know um you a lot of it was illegal activity that was happening right there as well and complaints from you know numerous citizens so I can see both sides of this but in the end it was like what is the what was the greater good here so um you know I went down and explained that that was you know took the ownership for that and um so we didn't have a meeting like this but it wasn't like we didn't talk to anyone either so there was Social Service things that um agencies that were consulted um people that went over there to try to encourage you know movement away from the sidewalk in a kind and respectful manner but yeah if you don't mind we we accelerated the start of our our police civilian the aison position it was that was going to be more of a delay we acceler ated that to to first start addressing this problem as we saw as a problem so our our liazon spent a lot of time down there with the individuals so it wasn't like we just said hey I know how to do it let's move benches we actually asked through our liaison and directly by ourselves I walked it she walked it our officers walk it every day we actually communicated with this group the vast majority are very respectful people there's no question about it um and and we would ask here's what we need to see we need the sidewalks opened up people need to be able to pass the sidewalks the minute we walk away it would just resume back to status quo and we'd be back and again we were very patient contrary to what it appears to be we were very patient the liaison spent hours down there hours and hour literally sitting at the benches trying to explain listen don't ruin this for yourselves otherwise other moves are going to have to be made here we need you to stop treating the sidewalk walk like a park so again it was only after dozens upon dozens of calls for service so to speak at the pocket or at the at the benches that we finally said obviously we can't make a change here without making a physical change we need them to push into the park the mayor was really pushing for the energy Park if anybody in city government or who's been watching for any number of years knows that was our last issue was the energy Park so a large amount of people in Greenfield wanted the energy Park open back up because people were camping out there they were they were defecating and urinating everywhere leaving their personal property trash litter Etc so 8 years ago not even five six years ago everybody put pressure on the police to solve the energy Park problem how do you do it to to be fair to everybody how do you do it it's not an easy thing when you tell people you got to go none of us like to do that I I can assure you we hear from everybody we try to balance things out and what I heard at least in my world I guess was the vast majority said I would really like downtown Greenfield to look better meaning if I'm going to walk I don't want to see a wrestling match at mil Street and they were happening every single day yeah the vast majority were play fighting they're they are playing but again what that what that says is that's Recreation on a sidewalk recreate in a park we have two of them right adjacent to that spot great thank thank you both yep and you know we know we know that it was a difficult decision I appreciate the amount of time that went into thinking it through and there aren't any easy solutions um so counselors questions for the mayor Chief I just just two quick questions Chief do you think it would have been a little bit different had the substation been up and running as this was going on I think so I have I have a lot of Hope for the substation um we would have been right there more often yeah um based on our challenge of getting people hired which is weird um and getting that the substation redone yeah I mean I I can't predict the future but I I I feel better about it uh but again I have seen for a long time even when I mean I was I'm old enough where I actually worked when we were downtown when it was 253 Main Street you are old 27 years in so um just having a police department down there does not change everything it really doesn't and in reality is you only have so many people trying to solve whatever problems happen in the city right and this is a city which I I'm thankful that we have small town atmosphere but there are city-like problems that trickle in um call volumes are extremely high I'm not here to make excuses for anything it's not what I'm I'm not trying to increase my budget uh but they are they are we're over 40,000 calls for service a year um and that's you know four people rolling around so you know we got we got seven people a day calling in mad about Speeders on such and such street and when one person complains about their street 52 others chime in because they got all Speeders on their street we have issues downtown again our focus in this particular issue was to try to start talking about downtown I think we all want a more vibrant business district I I and again this is more of a long range conversation is how do we improve Greenfield well first of all I know everybody hates well not everybody but a lot of people hate the fact that we are charged with maintaining order well we are charged with maintaining order we can't take that out of our equation so this was disorderly on the regular and I have the data to show you I mean this this isn't something we're making up it's all in your police logs it was a disorderly location that needed to be addressed again not to reiterate but we addressed it in a soft manner for a long time only to be refused any kind of change they just would not make a change to what we were asking them to do so what do you do next you got to change the physical environment and that's what I explained to the mayor I said we've been through this before I the Only Solution I see it's not to get rid of the people we don't want we want to move the people we like the people I know them all like I said said on a first name basis I have no I brought them food I bring them stuff they bring me stuff we're good it's just don't do it here and when when you get that sort of mob mentality of everybody together no one's policing anybody and it kind of just goes south it gets unorganized it gets unruly and then we're called we look like the bad guy well in this particular case like I said we're down there very little to that spot now we almost don't have to go there anymore so is I mean some would claim that to be a victory we're not interacting with these people because they're concerned that our interactions are negative well we're not then so because we moved them we have no problem just was there any thought about putting the tables and the benches in the pocket park yeah we talked about that it's just not an easy move I think that that might have solved some of the people's initial reaction but the problem is the minute they move down in there and this is the thing this is what we talked about the reality of this situation is everybody advocates for them until they're in their own backyard the minut they moved into the pocket park we already had people show up complaining who how do you win it it's I don't know uh celor Healey has a question councelor Healey it's it's more of a comment than a question so um I have quite a few things to touch base on this but one thing I'd like to remind you all is you know uh down at the Green River Park when we experienced the flooding the police were the first people there helping the homeless evacuate their tents and and find them shelters um in the city of Greenfield I think we've we do a very good job living with the homeless population in Greenfield and it comes down to a matter of mutual respect right and when people are disrespecting sidewalks and disrespecting ordinances and doing things that are harmful I I I've been on Main Street and I had somebody personally threatened me before I'm not a small guy so I'm not worried about it but I can only imagine what some families feel like walking down Main Street when they're being threatened um verbally um so I think that ision to kind of clean up Main Street was a great decision right I I do also know the people that live down at the Green River Park I play football there every Sunday those people come out they watch us play football we we eat lunch with them we feed them they're great people right I just think the there has to be a mutual respect there and if you're not following the rules that unfortunately there's discipline in this world if you can't follow the rules you have to be disciplined it's it's no different right so I I think it was a good move I think it was a soft move I think moved people away from the sidewalks where these problems were happening so I totally support this 100% I think you did a great job and I've I've I've seen it you guys have been more than respectable to the homeless community and and I appreciate that as well so thank you thank you c um my my questions are is the charging station working in energy Park if that was order then the the charging station is not in yet it came in about I know a couple weeks ago and we didn't it has not been put in yet um we have the I actually think we'll probably do that in the spring um because but I know what it's going to go next to the solar next to the solar panels and I can I just may I answer oh yeah so we did talk about moving that we the um the chest table needed a concrete pad I hated I can't tell you how much I hated pulling that out she did it was awful it was really like I'm suffering here sitting here because if you knew how I felt about all of this really it was terrible a terrible decision to make but I thought um and then the benches were too I I couldn't see a way that so we had Adder de which actually goes in the grass sure so um so we thought about that that was I'm sorry to um coun so um but so you had another question but I just wanted to answer that one um my second question was that heard that the Wi-Fi was also shut off in that area is that true or I don't know what situation is on public Wi-Fi in that Z no no we there was there's no well I'm not the it wizard there's Wi-Fi no um if I would have known if we were if somebody asked to do that we just shut the the charging um just an outlet Char and there's another Outlet that's actually by the edge of the parking lot down energy Park but I like that because it's in the Sun and right by the pavement and I thought I actually likeed energy Park as a as a place um you know that's what was used a lot during covid it is grass and who wouldn't want a place in the shade which is why everyone was up towards the sidewalk and so I understand it you if it's sunny out where are you going to be you're going to be in the shade and that was the only spot which is why everybody was together there makes sense if you go for a walk you go for a walk down a shady street right the ones with the beautiful trees that's where we all go so that's where everybody wanted to be so I thought energy park has some nice space in the shade it's the solar charger so it has to be put in the sun we're going to put the you know ader on that CH that then people could move it the whole thing was actually there was a there was a there was a little quite a little journey going we you know Daisy Chang that we you know the the Adera chairs down because there sometimes would' be like 50 people and remind just remember we were getting complaints from people that couldn't get by or from business owners or from people who were afraid so um and so we Daisy changed their chairs together and then you know four people with them daisy chain brought the four chairs up the ader deck chairs so and it was the shadiest place so yeah you I'd like to invite Kiren from Stone Soup Cafe give a little her perspective you know she do this so I open up to everybody sees a lot of people every week yeah I see a lot of people and I feed a lot of people and the first thing I want to say is Gosh guys what a hard decision and thank you so much for all the service you do for us and I'm not here to point fingers like seriously I got invited cuz my friend Laura said hey would you come and I'm like yeah sure here I am um we work with the same population and I I have the added benefit that I have larger Community also participating at Stone Soup um I think I mean like I just have to say as a as a resident of Greenfield um I had a couple of really uncomfortable Encounters this summer while being at ice cream alley to the point where I like you know what we're taking our ice cream to go and it broke my heart it breaks my heart to be that transparent with you as well but what I was witnessing hurt so bad to see people struggling with the disease of addiction and alcoholism struggling with being impoverished and trying to do the best they could struggling with having no place else to be and I actually think that that's the larger conversation that this city has to have is how do we actually take care of our neighbors and community members that have no place to go during the day or the night um there's you know I am chief knows this I am no stranger to um people who are living houseless um I had previous mayor um Evacuate the entire town square because we were holding a harvest supper and he blamed it on us and it was like nope they were all invited you know so I I have lots of background and and feelings about it I do think we need to work on um how we roll out your whole process to the public at large I am sick and tired of seeing Greenfield being demonized on Facebook I I'm sick of it I I can't I can't I can't there's enough hate in the world what we need to do is really start to think about us as a whole and if you know me and some some of you don't know me there's no us and them there's only us every single one of those people are our neighbors our community members and every one of us has a struggle so um I I really look forward to the way you spin in the next iteration of how we are accommodating people who need to have some place to go whether it's in the summertime and they need a shady spot and we need to have chairs or it's in the winter time and they need a warm spot or it's extreme heat and they need a cool spot I think that each of each of our community members is needs to be afforded that and I think it's a larger issue than a police issue and we moved you know disorderly conduct on the sidewalk how do we take care of each other in a way that really makes sense so I'm just left like you guys answered so many interesting questions 300 calls a month huh wow 40,000 calls a year but not now wow but not now like I said I mean I know people criticize it and I know people again that's why I started off by saying it's a perspective issue it 100% is but the reality of it is if you look at if you look at the statistics it's it's clear it's you know people don't like when we over cars well especially if you're the one being pulled over but the reality of that is the more we do it the less accidents we have what's our goal our goal is to save lives and keep people that you don't want your family getting into a head on accident with a car so we try to maintain order on the streets yes we look bad it's not a pretty job that we have to do not a lot of people like it this is the same thing there are steps we have to take that ultimately achieve an objective maybe not in a pretty way but they achieve an objective and what that is is we are interacting in a negative way you can classify that any way you want with the same individuals a third of the time because we moov V to me that's a win a third of the time yeah you cut cut 200 calls out of your log yeah well I mean that that being the least of it like I said if the criticism of us is that we're inhumane and we you know we discriminating against the the UN house it's wrong I I can tell you it's wrong it's not what it's all about it's about yes great I just freed up officers the few that you have on the street at any given time over 200 calls a month yes that's great maybe they can run to your a quicker but that wasn't even the point the point was we don't want frankly don't have the time to go down there and keep arresting people off Main Street anyways nobody wants to do that there are times when they're we're not forcing our hand to do it our hands are forced to do it when it happens right there centrally on Main Street for us to not do it what sort of message does that send so again we're trying to balance all this stuff out I appreciate your kind words I think you get it uh we're not inhumane nobody is and the mayor did stress over the town right now is working on plans to protect people during the cold days they're ahead of it unlike in the past we're not working last minute there are so many plans that I've never seen being worked on for people's benefit those who who need it if you have a caring very caring Administration very caring Council we're on board I want everybody this is a new place the Greenfield Police Department isn't what it was 10 years ago five years ago two years ago you have a bunch of people who were out there actually caring they don't want to do this stuff and you have a I just want to make sure that you've gotten a chance to yeah I just I I just say like honestly those the first of all as somebody who watched the last minute Louie planning or non-planning for weather contingencies throughout the year it's great to hear that I think the general public needs to hear what your efforts are more consistently and the and the green Greenfield Recorder isn't it um and the face police Facebook page is fine for some things but I don't know how we really transparently share information with the public so that they truly we I shouldn't say they we the US of all of us are are in the no um and and I think that's it you know like you you could call it a PR problem but in reality it's it's about basic communication um totally and it and it's yet another Another Hill to tackle uh you know and climb and I and I know it's difficult for I I know I I I have watched I have watched different iterations I've been here for 25 years so we gr up together yeah well kind of although I think I'm older than you I'm not gonna ask I I appreciate your comment about because the thing that struck me after the benches was just thinking about where are the spaces that people can be right and having that conversation because you move benches and you know people are are going to have to be somewhere else and you know some of some of it is people who are underemployed so they don't have somewhere during the day because I think we're making assumptions that the folks were homeless and I don't know that they're unhoused it was some of it is some of it is being houseless some of it is be is living with health issues mental health addiction health health health physical health right so all of those things are are part of it like this is is not uh this is not an easy issue because we're dealing with complex human beings who have complex issues and complex needs um and there is no one one siiz fitall solution here but I do think that this that getting more transparent with what the efforts are or where people can actually be helpful um you know Stone Soup runs a volunteer organization we see more than 500 volunteers unique volunteers a year these are people who want to help their Community right I think if there's ways for people to plug in and actually try to be helpful that that may be another kind of way to make this a more us solution oriented and of course you're charged with governing the city you're charged with keeping order of course people are going to look to your leadership and and some of them are going to criticize and I'm quite frankly as I said sick of listening to the criticism because they're not sitting in the hot seat all day long I I mean I sit in a hot seat all day long trying to figure out how I'm going to make 34,000 meals this year right and how I'm going to fund that that's a hot seat you sit in you you you're you're doing it 10 times on steroids of what I'm doing and I think that people need to understand that that it can't just be a binary solution that it's got to be complex and interactive and Cooperative um can I just share something to answer for good so I I appreciate that and I said a little bit about what we were doing for the the warming Center because we as a community um we were like go to the Head of the Class in all of Western Mass for making a plan for our un for our unhoused for this winter um that was one thing I was very committed to do we have a increased you know unhoused population and we started in August making a plan for what we were going to do for the winter for warming shelter and we had um we've had three meetings I think we be brought in all um uh first we had an internal meeting and then we had a couple with all service providers and um must have been like this room was full of maybe 40 people online that all wanted to help so we made a plan and we're you know brought to the what that western Mass Housing Coalition and were praised for getting one in you know getting a plan in order by September so um we were very uh graciously had uh Paul Leslie from the Salvation Army who will open up his place on the uh warmest on coldest nights and um the plan is for the Medical Reserve Corps to be the volunteers that work through the night we have a little phone train list that's made and um the sheriff's office has agreed to be the backup if we have a problem with the volunteers I actually thought about reaching out um you know reaching out to you because we're but they're going to do it's going to be from 7:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. um we've set up some parameters as far as the weather the fire chief and myself will be the coldest night not for every winter night because we didn't think we could get the volunteers for that but the the the sheriff said that he'd open up the lobby too if we had a staffing problem and if there were any families so I just to respond to what was happening because this was this these were the things that you'd see you know people do their writing Etc on Facebook and I I try not to look at that as much but I just did want to communicate that we were thinking about that and we're making a plan for that where and I've actually talked to good folks like yourself about what the plan would be if they people needed something to do so um I just want well if there's training and you want to talk to us about um additional volunteers I'm sure that we'd be happy to thank you brainstorm or do anything that would be helpful to our community you know it's just it's the nature of our organization to think deeper and wider and be more and more inclusive add add to what so we're talking about the cold weather as long as I've been newly minted here but as far as as a lieutenant I was in on the conversation as well it's been it's been a long time they discussed this city discusses what to do with individuals on the extremely hot days too yeah not just talking about the cold days we understand that the heat can be absolutely devastating death Heat absolutely so you know I'm I'm happy and proud to say that contrary to what some people want to say or or criticize us about the city does a lot in the background I get the transparency I guess if we're more transparent they'll actually start to see that but there's a lot that goes in a lot of discussion about taking care of our unhoused people but it's not just the unhoused I we went in that direction but it's everybody it's a lot that we're trying to take care a lot of our seniors don't have air conditioning they go to the senior top of our know there's I know that there's extra distributions there are things that we do at Stone Soup we put up extra tents so you're not in the direct sunlight there there are lots of things that we can do to help our community members on different days and you know if I had a place to put beds I'd be telling you yeah sure no problem well you know when we open that door and you find out all when you start talking about it from a municipalities perspective there is so many regulations that you can walk this City into so much liability it's hard you know and again one question inspires 15 more she just sent out an email about the you know the Salvation Army opening up a room well then people come with 15 more questions for that and you don't think about that's why a group is good but what you also don't think about is what you're actually establishing by accident that now causes you to own uh essentially a residence for these and you can't do that so again we started talking about the the ordinances and the laws and it's not something you can just make happen in 5 seconds and say yeah I'll I'll take care of you for two nights in a row now all of a sudden are they a resident yeah what does the municipality must Supply them with that we may not be able to afford or don't have it's it's a scary place so the conversations are underway about a lot of things but I think the care is there my main message is that is the care is here you know don't don't drink the soup when you hear people talking about how we're the meanies there's no conversation I've had that hasn't been geared towards helping this community we may not always agree on what help is but it's about helping the community one way or the other I was to say I do think the communication is getting better it's a slow tide it takes time for people to learn and understand I think the communication's office doing a great job with press as b a sewer as Facebook is the city's Facebook page and the police department and the fire department's uh Facebook pages are helpful they do put a lot of information out there but people have to know that so people have to know to join those pages to follow the news and trying to figure out how we can have other ambassadors not I I that sounds like a high fluen word but you know other me other trusted members of the community who can get that out because unfortunately people are going to look at the the police department the mayor oh well they're just making themselves look good so you know how do we have other trusted folks yeah and that that also speaks to that word trust is a big deal right so um there there are plenty of people that hate police until they need to call them glad you said you know well I I'll say it all day long I even have an employee that just is like very distrustful because of their experiences or whatever and I continually say that's not okay it's not fair like you know we know that we're all honestly it's a different world even I'm talking from the police perspective we go into it assuming that yeah yeah it's it's it's a bad way to have to live your life got to break the ice and that's why since I became Chief we put our people out of these meetings my larger thing is not just police but it's also it's also government in general people are disted trustful of government in general they people don't understand all the regulation people don't understand the need so I do think that the more the more that we can educate and I say we because I I'm part of it I'm you know like I'm a part of the government I'm part of an agency that takes care of our community um and through a through a mutual Aid style right and in reality the but the more that we can educate people about who we are and what we're trying to do about the care about asking what the need is and really being able to hear the need I know you I know what you've done right I just think that we need to hear it more and more often and really put it out there that questions are okay questions are okay that um understanding limitations is necessary and that people need to understand what the boundaries are the limitations are and the require ments are so that they understand how something that looks like it was fast or looks like it was a knjk reaction it's not like that right you know we had we had an issue not too long ago with a previous administration where it looked like there was racism happening but the reality was is that the administration didn't communicate that the insurance company was making it do certain things a certain way and if it had happened that way I think more people would have understand the constraints that the administration had to operate under not forgiving it I'm not ignoring it I'm just saying I think that knowledge is power and when you educate people with the knowledge you help them be more compassionate empathetic and supportive rather than der writing negative and critical all right I know I said a lot are we allowed to take more public commenters over that we one to have a question okay yeah cuz I have comments too but I'm happy to bounce back to public comments you want me to go back over there and you invite somebody else up or I know what your plan is yeah there's someone on zo want to speak okay I mean we generally don't have a big open conversation but um since if if somebody came late and get didn't get a chance to be part of public comment um I know Liza did you want to make a comment oh hi yeah my name is Liza master chero I'm a Greenfield resident who has an office on Fisk Avenue I am extremely happy with the mayor's decision to remove the benches and the way the police department has handled the situation I know it's really tricky but I felt so comfortable having to walk past the benches on my way to work as a single female and you know I I would see people shooting up um buying substances and um also not to mention it was a bit of an ey sort ultimate ultimately the goal for a better Greenfield is to draw business and Shoppers to downtown and I think the removal of those benches has helped us and I just wanted to say thank you thank you in the back row did you want to make a comment I just to um on the topic of transparency and also like how do we get a message out so I'm Nick Perry I live in Greenfield I own Sadies bikes and Turner Falls um I think becoming a business owner uh or at least for me I became way more active with my local government um became way more active with just the people around me in general um I find myself a point person for news I find myself a point person for you know um just general chatter about what's going on around me at all times when I come to meetings like this I take information away from here and not have talking points that I can talk to my customers about um and the people that I see throughout my life so you know when we talk about how do we get this message out how do we other forms of communication other than like why you know why can't somebody do the Facebook or read the newspaper listen to the radio or something like this I think the places where we can push a more organic sense of communication and Community is going to be key to that like and so somebody's saying I have these opinions I have these opinions but they never show up to a meeting like this you know encouraging them to come to a meeting like this to get involved like this is the best way to do it so anyways that's I just wanted to say that real thank you so much comment yeah absolutely my name is Patty and I live in P um this is my first time coming to a community relations meeting um and uh about the the communication I I definitely agree about like I wish there was like more um maybe different ways of communicating what the progress on a topic has been um I have found a year while trying to get acquainted with what it's been going on the field that that can be really challenging without showing up at a meeting and I wish that like like even if I know the topic like having to dig through minutes or meeting videos or articles that don't have dates on them um which I asked about having dates you put on those and they still haven't um it can be hard to find out what's going on and I I try to not use Facebook anymore I don't want to be using Facebook um news has pay walls and I I would like to be able to support all the news organizations but I really wish that we could be getting information directly from our our government about what's going on by topic like maybe in a way that is a little bit different than the format of minutes um in videos just like for the climate emergency I really care about climate issues and development and I don't know where I can find out more about this context of what what like I just Lo now and and I can't find anything about it except that there was like an MVP Grant and there's no date on when that happened so I would love to know more I don't have a minutes through so also maybe for a community relations meeting something more conversational might be more for me I think that would be more desirable because like it's nice to be able to respond to what we've been talking about and not have to come right up with with what we're talking about before I even know what we're gonna thank you I mean I think that your your comments are I I I'm taking that to heart because I think one of the things that we do is these committee meetings but not necessarily like a community conversation and I think the next step is things like a community conversation that isn't the like sign up and do the thing um could also you could also have like somebody I don't know who write up write up a distillation of what happened here and have the resolutions and just put the website should have them and you can just click and go so we can go to City of Greenfield and find out what's happening right and then the talking point for all of us could be it's right on the website here's how you do that or it could go to the kiosk like the there's a beautiful kiosk we right we can be like tap here for what's what we're considering here's a way to get involved here's a meeting that's happening and you know it's really hard to get people to sign up and be in in town government some of it's because your meetings are ungodly long and your counselors AR paid a a wit but you know um but you know and and so some of that cantankerousness needs to get tamed and I don't know how to do that so don't ask me but the reality is is that there are there are some easier ways for us to figure out how to get a different format that's more approachable um this guy's an IT guy just remember that oh appreciate appreciate that and I know I'm looking at the time and it's uh 710 and I don't want us to have to go all night so um I I'd like to move into sort of and with councelor brown as well just maybe there's some just idea solution things that we can throw out here just more kind of Rapid Fire and continue and figure out if we want to continue this conversation um yeah I would love if we had more of a followup Community Forum or task force that would allow community-led Solutions I don't really know the process but I can talk to Kathy Scott about that um and I think that the focus of that could be um access to public resources like how for example um there's a public urination problem so why don't we have a public bathroom at energy Park um so that seems like there's the Portland L which is like $100,000 but if the city can find a b like that in the budget or if that can be um or if there could be Community fundraising to help match and like I know chrisy has been thinking about this but yeah I'm just or even if there's incentives for um business owners if they can receive a stipend or have a sign that people are welcome to use the bathroom or refill water and just thinking about like yeah just the basic needs wi-fi charging yeah access to all these as public resources and bathrooms and everyone wants like a a clean City and um sidewalks that you can walk on but not having that not be like a whacka mole people are just like moving around but like how can we actually be getting to the root causes and that being like a Cooperative collaborative project that we're all in the same team um it's not it should not be divisive we all want that um so yeah what is the best Forum to facilitate the public participating to channel momentum and helpfulness I think would be good did you have a yeah I was going to say this this particular committee hasn't been meeting that often and this committee might be a venue for some of the stuff we just talked about or this meeting could be the public forum meeting where people come in and talk about it and then we would have counselors who have minutes that people might have missed we can go back and talk about things and in a kind of an informal way I want to speak the chair who's not here but that is one way of perhaps uh helping the dialogue of communication and open communication up a little bit more yeah I I talked to councelor Gilmore about sort of how this committee was formed and why and I think when it was initially formed it it was for some some issues that had to do with schools that are now sort of being dealt with with school committee so we don't have that in our needs anymore so there might be the opportunity to think about if you had a meeting that was more of a public conversation meeting and then if we had things that were Council business or you could alternate or something like that I have two things to say first is if we want to clean cleaner downtown we have to have the proper sized trash receptacles yes those don't fit anything they don't fit anything and I literally have had people come to me and say I see Stone suit trash and I'm like I can't help it if a diner takes away their meal and they have no place to put their trash because there's no trash receptacles so um that might be something that is an easy fix I mean who knows maybe compost Cooperative would like to put compost because all my stuff is compostable you know even the paper bag composting I was saying and um and my second comment is is um Madame mayor I do think that whoever is your public relations person should be at this committee meeting for them to be able to hear what's happening at least as a slice of what's Happening from public comment and then they they they'll be able to get they'll be able to give um context and put word out to the rest of the public but they'll also be able to clue you in if you're not able to be here they'll be here your staff member who's then helping Drive public relations in a larger sense so the committee work will also feed into some staff I I'm nothing but an efficient thinker um Derek has a I appreciate it councelor Healey yeah I was just thinking um you know we we all have our email addresses online and I I I think a good step would be if people emailed us the C committee suggestions for topics to discuss since this meeting does go not very frequently because we don't have a lot of agenda topics to toic about then we could put it on committee chair and actually address it in a public meeting with the proper notice that we need to give about topics we're discussing um because that's going to be the big hold up right you can't just have open discussions in our meetings without publicly addressing them earlier and giving public notice so I highly suggest the public just sends anybody on this board a meeting this committee send them an email and say hey we want to talk about uh what we could do for for uh this or that and then then we could go through it and if we get 50 emails well we can't talk about them all but maybe we could collectively put our heads together and say let's take these five topics or 10 topics and then the next meeting guess what we still have 40 left over let's bring those to the meeting um just a suggestion thank you you know the the other thing that came to mind was H how could the mayor and use this committee potentially when there are issues like this that are you're you know you're like I have this thing that I'm really wrestling with maybe we can use this committee as a sounding board for conversation and and that way opens it up so it so we can see that there was a conversation and not just oh the mayor just did this um and didn't think about it right because that's the public perception um and the other comment I just wanted to make I think the other thing is we often think it's it's up to government to solve all our problems and what I'm hearing in this room is there are a lot of business owners residents who want to help you know whether it's like oh my business I I I could offer a bathroom I could offer water so how do we as a community be more welcoming and and that's a bigger Community conversation I think so can I just say one last thing so um I like that I I I want to assure you that Matt will be watching this meeting tomorrow to take he does that afterwards because we're recording them um and um on the bathrooms I'm throwing this out there's I think councilor Healey out there we we have a plan I asked Christie for to see if we can get a bathroom in each one of the parks they're like $250,000 so probably doing one a year and we're starting with um Hillside and then hopefully Green River which I'm just um hearing was a little bit more difficult because it's downhill so you have to pump or something Marlo was explaining that to me but there's when you get your Capital project book I'm just saying that so it came up so that everybody here knows that and maybe it'll communicate that to whoever but it was Hillside energy Park um followed by um um Beacon and last would um Hillside Green River for the first two and then um uh beaconfield and energy Park would be last because that's uphill without water there um so that was really particularly problematic but we were thinking about that and spreading out the payments over you know four years won't be doing them all at once and great idea on the barrel that has come up before so thank you but if I could be a pessimist about that just things to consider it's it you're right that the trash can get full but the other side of the coin is you put bigger trash cans up and then you see all the cars lining up throwing all their personal trash in it and trash is a super expensive again I'm not I'm not saying don't do it all I'm saying is there are always a different side of the story absolutely and like I think she just said we're not really the city can't solve everybody's problems but I think if you talk to Marlo on that issue he might be like we can't add bigger cans because everybody's going to put their household trash in it it's expensive how about this one city hall has a way to lock its building and have its bathrooms open 247 but we don't do that why because there is an alternate right there is there are other things that happen in bathrooms besides bodily business and um and then who's moning them and and I understand that I understand that from a whole lot of perspectives but if somebody knew that they didn't have to urinate on the sidewalk because they could go to a bathroom wouldn't that be amazing you might you might catch some of them or well families with little kids when I I feed I feed people that live in their cars and Tents who are sleeping in the doorstep of All Souls church right I he will people people who people who live without kitchen means or um or a stable diet they actually plan out what they eat when because of when they know they can go to a bathroom right so most of them have train most people who live in that lifestyle have trained their bodies to be able to go in a where and when they can but the body of course is if we're human right so so uh you know the body's in charge but could you imagine if there was if there was a way way to make it work that even just the bathroom that's right down there in that corner was open 247 what what would that what would that affect how would that change things every little bit helps every little bit yeah I've heard of motion detecting um cameras in bathrooms that only detect if there's no more motion like if someone goes in so that is like there are ways to open up existing bathroom facilities that are we're just having a big discussion right now about bathro I asked every department head to weigh in because there's something to know about all of them there's um the plan right now was for individual you know um it's like a little house with three individual stalls that are for men or women or uh people who uh identify in any in any regard so they' be individual place but there's so much which ones will it be open in the summer and the winter and there's a liability with it but I I agree I think we need them and we need to think about it so all the department heads were weighing in at which point I learned the ones are going uphill or where there was no water is really a problem so I don't know and another like creative weird solution is that um French over there works for Rich Earth Institute in Brattleboro which does urine recycling for farms and they I mean so you can yeah yes we had like to continue exploring Grand opportunities to engage in Franklin County so that is we have spent a lot of time discussing with various green Greenfield parties in the past and uh we have quite a program in southern Vermont and have engaged in Massachusetts broken arts and other areas as well so there is a there's a lot of different options to only water and flushing systems dry composting toilets and things that are producing resources for local businesses and ultimately actually our work is really centered around rivers are getting polluted with our human nutrients so that's kind of where you start and then you're generating a resource so that is thank you Sarah but that that is also options that not all folks are wear good point the first time never heard of that yeah the clus is the like climate Okay composting toilet so as much as this is going uh fascinating but time to go talking about waste so it always ends up there can I thr a tin yeah if the conversations about these issues include coming up with Solutions not just sharing ideas then and if the people who are involved are in the room for those conversations if invited in then there's more ownership of the solution you not not somebody else made the decision but but we did um I don't know how hard it is but but if we could just start doing some more of that um there's a thing called a charet where you have the community get together to talk about making a Space um so there's there's a structure for doing that sort of thing I've been asking around and people don't know that that happens in field where there's a public process to at least come up with recommendations to government for here's things that a lot of people who are bought into would do it maybe you could try that even with a small small thing like the Benes we come up with the process to get a public solution suggested thank you and there have been many charettes because I've been to at least five or six in the last year year so it is something that's been done in our community for sure so I will take a motion to adjourn oh can of just so how do we so the bench issue is resolved as far as we're concerned as far as the I mean it sounds like we want to continue the conversation is what I'm hearing and councelor brown has suggested looking into a task force yeah or public forum I'm not sure Community Forum I'm not sure the difference but I'll look into that with Kathy all right okay I want to make sure we're all on the same page I want to thank I just want to thank you guys uh you know I had a conflict of interest because I'm a family member who lives on Fisk Avenue and so it was very hard for me to be neutral when I heard this person telling me some of the stuff they they saw but now this person's leaving moving out so feel less pressure but I understand both sides of the issue I I worked the depart mental health I worked for nonprofits in the past the mental health agencies I understand everything that we've been talking about there's no e solution but I've also seen the police department since the new Administration took over and since the new Chief took over I've really seen proactive police work out the streets I'm out there I pay attention I watch we're doing good work you know people don't see it all the time but we're doing good work it takes time to change takes time to change and as long as we keep looking forward and going forward hiring the right people doing the things that we need to do things will change with the help of everybody in the community so I just want to thank you guys for that now we can make a Washington I also want to thank Chief mayor Kristen for coming out tonight and and sharing their knowledge with us um so we could have a better informed conversation and all folks who came for the first time to a public meeting so that that means a lot so I'll entertain a motion to adjourn a motion to adjourn second right uh councelor Healey yes councelor Brown yes councelor Perry all right I will be a yes thank you thank you everybody meeting aour and we are at 7 27 [Music]