##VIDEO ID:9crY11Nv8Lk## call this meeting to order 6:01 p.m. this meeting is being recorded by committee chairs if any other persons present are doing the same you must notify me at this time the none will go to the roll call of members counselor bottomley here councelor Gilmore not attending online counselor bolock here counselor Golab depending on mine but microphone is muted so she coming y Catherine you're muted can you ask her to unmute or unmute her oh there we go no Catherine can you hear us yeah okay we cannot hear you can you call in yes oh okay it's telling her there's a problem with the mic no yeah um I mean does she want to she can call in on my phone and I can just have it on speaker well we'll all we'll all need to make sure that we can hear her and the people online will need to be able to must be able to hear her also can we put it by that speaker yeah but it won't speak through she just committee text to the to us saying there's a problem with the mic what mic this mic well if if so we shouldn't use the chat which makes it kind of difficult um so why don't Katherine if you can hear us if you can call MaryAnn's cell phone and we will try hearing you through that on speaker phone should um and we will ask Marlo entered the waiting room hi when is the last time you updated your Chromebook okay so okay they need to you also you could call in from your cell phone where she can go on Zoom yeah that's okay okay great okay then we won't have the weird feedback issue yeah um should I finish the roll call oh yep let's tto I am here the 10-minute roll call here Havey Quorum Mr President um do we want to wait a minute without for Catherine to try to call in to see if we can hear better okay I just a little bit so while we're waiting this is not an agenda item but it was something that I was going to pass out to each of you um if you want to have direct deposit you have to fill that out and send it get it back to us if you scan it in and email it to us um that should be fine Captain is probably searching for the phone number to call in give it another minute and maybe start in oh entered the waiting room counselor GB is that you you are still on mute oh no that was some now you go right ahead celor yes connecting with audio some audio support from the fan yeah Catherine can you hear us we can probably start and just pause when we get if we get to um yeah I think there's only like one question um but let's start and we can always try calling maybe do it through the phone if we need to okay um first thing on the notes is city council reorganization meeting in January uh I was talking with clerk Scott about this about potentially doing that uh since no one has to be sworn in it's not necessarily the right the day after the first so maybe doing it before committee chairs on January 7th U or set it for like 6 pm and then have committee chairs at 6:15 and what I had suggested because whoever gets elected president will then have the opportunity to schedule committee chairs maybe the same maybe different and the committee memberships so if in January at the committee chairs meeting the current committee chairs could still attend to get the work done because we'll have a special meeting special meeting for the organizational at 6 and then a committee chairs at like 6:15 so if the current officers committee chairs could sit at that committee chair meeting to get the business done than the new committee chairs in February so the January subcommittees still be chaired by the previous yeah that's what we did the last two years year I think it also depends on how quickly the committee lineup is put together right you you know I say one of the years we didn't have committee share subcommittee at all right because we yeah we held them the first the first year yeah um so I think if if everyone is a bit flexible with cheering a meeting or co-chairing maybe with someone new know um that that we could get it January could continue no one is new the council is still the same same 13 members um if we just need to be a little flexible so so are we scheduling for S the 7th 6: PM for an or meeting and 65 for committee chairs sure by the way the charter amendments were passed we do not have to deliver for special meetings anymore so this organiz ational special meeting will not be delivered oh like you don't have to bring a notice to our home right oh good we just have to we just have to figure out a concrete way that we're going to say we're going to deliver these this way you need to acknowledge receed or something of that sort yeah these are the ones that are like 48 hours or something the ones that we would deliver to your resident or business within 48 Hours of the meeting right yeah great question can you hear me somehow I went out and I came back in and it work fine do I do I need to announce that I am present thank you 6:10 p.m. thank you thank you all right so moving on to discussion appointment of a parliamentarian I have not gotten any further with that um so I don't have a process so I think I'm going to kick that down the road to January um this I don't remember status on the um ordinance to all living in campers and trailers that's just it was a discussion there was no ordinance being proposed but I don't think it needs to be on the um it doesn't need to be like held on there it's okay it was like if someone came back with like model regulations and whatever we remove yeah I think it can be removed it was just a discussion I so it could be said that because a counselor didn't step forward to support it that it's not yeah thank you um electronic communications I also have not looked into this any further I don't know if this is something we want to leave on or remve from that's clear it's clearly outlined in open meeting law you can't have electronic communications with like a quorum of the public body during the meeting but there's nothing in open meeting law that says you you know you can't send an email send a text message and like just to say plenty of legislators get information on discussion topics from people through either being handed like if you watch a congressional hearing they get like handed a paper or from their AIDS that's very different than from the public I I actually would love to see more of this come about because if people from the public aren't allowed to cross the rail to hand us stuff during meeting they can't come up and whisper in our ear why should they be able to send us a text message or a communication via email I think it's something that you could definitely take up with the state around open meeting law but it's not I don't think it's something in our purview it's because it is outlined I think it might be up to each counselor to swipe it away if it comes in during a meeting yeah I mean I have no I mean I understand time changed like when we didn't have cell phones we didn't have internet none of this would even be a topic for discussion because you couldn't get talked to and like I have kids I have sitters that watch my kids when I'm here and like yeah am I going to keep my phone on me sure if I hear it Buzz I pick it up and I see my sitter I'm going to excuse myself and I'm going to go answer a personal call but if I see a constituent is sending me a text message I'm not entertaining whatever they say I'm not even looking at it that's why I think it's you know more of an honor code than anything else but I also lack of or lack of faith I don't trust the the ability of people to uphold an honor code anymore so so I don't know if think everything's been said that we need to on that think every I think everybody's kind of said can I add one other crazy thing about the open meeting law with that though is that technically the open meeting law would allow like if I wanted text you during an open meeting I could do that which I think that is unethical like we could you and I could deliberate just you like oneon-one you and I could could because electronic messaging during an open meeting by less than a quorum of the public body's members while not directly prohibited by op meeting law is discouraged if those electronic communications are not shared at the meeting so technically one like it's only a for there's a there is a lot to be desired yeah so so where does the rule come about nobody coming behind the rail is that our policy or is that a state Robert's Rules right so it's and you've adopted Robert's Rules but a the public could walk up and hand you a paper during an open they would have to request permission to come in the W right yeah I just these are just conflicting things about one thing I mean neither of these things are really enforceable anyway I mean you violate open meaning LW nothing happens VI Robert rules nothing happens so they're really just Kathy gets mad at you right no people can get mad at you but like if we violate open meeting law no one's coming and arresting us no one's giving us a fine we're we're totally above liability for any of that anyway so if it were it I'm yeah no so you're right open meeting law violations there's a Complaint Form you have to address the complaint you have to state know during a meeting what what you're going to do to resolve the issue um if the complaints are consistent enough you can receive a fun the city I'm not personally liable you're not you're not personally liable but the city would be F the council would be fined whatever they were F to my memory which is fading as we speak um there there hasn't been a fined violation in Greenfield right but I'm not suggesting you do it no I'm just saying these are all again these are honor codes right as much yeah as much as a pain in the butt as I can be I try to like raise my hand and say no open meeting violation or you know whatever so it also sounds like it could be a policy thing like if counselor so counselor wanted to present it as an ordinance right or just a policy right right that's a policy is different than an ordinance but right right but I think for now we can remove that strong suggestion you um the next one is approved memorandum of agreement uh between greenfield and mass cops local 470 which had its first reading that would go to Ways and Means yeah uh next is mayor's appointments and reappointments now go to ano um so going by committee this is where we'll have a couple questions Economic Development Committee oh yeah questions about the Adu uh so I what I I was just trying to look up what the um is that deadline January 4th do you guys remember off the top of your head the deadline for what when we have to hear the citizens POS petition it has to be voted on by February 5th okay February 5th great I both numbers off and for just the reg well I guess it doesn't matter if the regular U one dies because we we sort of maybe want it to the regular Adu one that counselor Garrett proposed yeah is that the one that I have January 4th in my head on Magic and I promise to be nice not I think Tammy was who originally emailed me when I asked but I can't find it in my zoning Amendment 8U this is the voter petition the voter's petition is February 5th these are miscellaneous amendments councilor Garrett this is also February fix oh they're both February yeah okay so for both adus I need to get a legal opinion if the mayor does not want I sent an email on November 14th requesting a review of the citizens petition for Adu by the city which is what the um I talked to the executive office of Housing and livable communities and the governor's office about the new Adu regulations that are coming down which they assured us there will be like more robust guidance from the state that comes with ample time for us to do something before February 2nd um and they said they for first line they want the city the city's attorney to review the citizens petition and give us guidance on whether that would be legal under the current regs that they've passed out there is there is a few questions in there on whether it would even be legal the last communication I had with the mayor about that Adu was um that she was going to send it to attorney Quinn oh okay I didn't get that email but no it was just it was just a reply to me okay um I haven't heard anything but your follow-up email also went to her okay so I'm kind of waiting to see what kind of response because I haven't seen one yet okay um but can follow up with her yeah that would be great because I I mean really we need to know this before NE before I mean ideally we would hear this this month but we can hold it and hear in January and maybe it should be held and not rushed yeah until January but well right the citizens petition I just wanted to give ample time but I mean citizens are welcome to come and make public comment on it this month even though we're not hearing it the other Adu I'm definitely holding um so that won't be discussed at this month at all so the last two on there yeah the other one oh sorry go ahead so we're moving both adus from the EDC agenda for December right they will most likely be on January's EDC agenda the other one that's of question is the rooster petition which um is I read some information hold on second basically because of the right to farm laws we can force someone with five acres or more to have to get a special permit to have a rooster so this one like is in direct violation of something that we've adopted as a city so basically like what do I do when citizens petitions are in violation of state law you heard them and you dismiss we don't have to vote on them or just you responded right is that requirement to respond so if I may ask that I can look into that so we all know that we can't do something that's in violation of state law um but I am not a zoning expert and I would like to have a discussion with Eric toog who is infinitely more zoned in on it get what I did there um so I obviously we can't do something that's in violation of law the process to go about notification to the citizens who submitted this petition I will have to find out okay can you not this brain some um can't you not further restrict locally what state law has you can't expand Beyond what state law says but you can further restrict locally correct isn't that kind of how the federal state loal government go I think you're correct but are we restricting it or are we violating it that's also so I think there needs to be a this so this might be something I mean I when I was I was waiting to hear about if it could be reviewed by attorney Clint but um I this might be something that I think needs to potentially be looked at by him as well I'm trying to find the email because counselor Brown did speak with Eric and no I don't know where I went anyways it's it's potentially yeah it's might be something we want to get reviewed by the by our the City attorney as well I because I'm also not a zoning expert and don't feel comfortable I think that's a good idea yeah is anyone really there is zoning experts I talked to them the other day were like the governor's office the you know the housing and Li communities people they were zoning again this this item is the newest of the zoning that the deadline isn't until March okay so we we have a little bit more time not that we want to wait because we don't want to drag anybody on but um yeah I would just say not even just this petition there are definitely roosters in this city that are on land that is not fighting oh my God I mean I I am sympathetic of this there is a rooster on my street that I have bed for and I would take that bad boy out if I could find him because he is same thing what what David mcaro said that like 2 a.m. 4 a.m. like that is my life like two neighbors yeah one over there one over there yeah I'm not even Co like I have I have neighbors we got coup a couple ways down the road and they got free range chickens and I said it comes across my street in my yard that's dinner that's dinner baby dinner like you do not have the right type of chickens on my so is that better make sure if you don't want to so that one will hold this one just we're gonna yeah people are welcome to come and speak to it this month if they want to but we're going to hold that one so you're holding a joint public hearing oh right that yeah we're holding for that with planning board on December 10th okay and then the 1 two 3 four zoning amendments 200 section 12 40 48 and 14 are you voting on it EDC to forward a recommendation to the council that's the plan for those they might get they might get held again because I know I have amendments to some of those things um so if if we can if the if the committee feels like we can make a recommendation absolutely we'll move it forward so they'll be on the agenda for an order to vote Yes one thing though is we actually need to make sure we have a quorum because I know Rachel Gordon is not going to be able to be there on the 10th and I believe councelor Garrett isn't going to be able to be there either they're like about to have a baby they already have baby they have the baby so he he won't be there either yeah okay so that's great um yeah like that was their like dday if they didn't have it with the T so so we will check on a quum yes so we well I talked to counselor Healey he's a definite yes um so councelor minhas is the only one that and then we'll have three okay all right so we're set with that so AO uh appointments and then I had a question about the hybrid meetings amendment is that discussion or for vote um I believe that we'll be ready to pass it to vote on it in AO this month um two questions just for clarification one is we need a first reading and a second reading on that correct so that would be first reading December and second reading January is that accurate um no so I tried to call you back yesterday but your voicemail is full um so I sent you an email so first and second readings are for financial items okay so ordinances would need to have a public hearing um so president bottomly if I could ask some questions to okay um so do you want to hold a public hearing on that proposed ordinance in December or do you want to discuss it one more time and hold a public Hearing in January if if my second question and and thank you for responding um is I know that in other municipalities sometimes if something is brought during one legislative season then in Greenfield not in Greenfield okay wanted to make sure so um I don't know if there's any reason why we wouldn't just do the public Hearing in uh in December and vote on it in December so we can but we need to know tonight because Tammy needs to get it to the recorder tomorrow sure so and those two things have to happen simultaneously the public hearing and the vote is that true no they they can happen the same night but they don't have to happen the same night if you hold the public Hearing in December you can simply hold a public hearing on it and then make a recommendation in January forward it to Council in January if you want to to pump the brakes for one more month oh I don't think that there is a need to pump the brakes I clarification does the public hearing have to happen at full council meeting or can it happen at subcommittee can happen in subcommittee okay then let's have the public hearing yeah yeah so then let's have the public hearing next week at subcommittee and let's vote on it um December public hearing for ano um and do you also want it on the agenda for a motion yes yes okay and know vote in December public hearing okay then that would essentially be on our full Council agenda as well for December potentially it could be so when you say potentially we have the public hearing at AO next week we vote on it next week if there is some reason I don't think so the the uh we had a dis it was on for discussion ATO last week and the last month and the questions that were have were raised I think will be able to be addressed at the next meeting and there just seemed to be a favorable sense of the committee um so if something happened that I was not anticipating other other concerns about it could I reach out and say let's have it on full Council in a month would that be an option okay yes great then let's do that so just to clarify the plan ISO will hold a public hearing at next week's meeting ano will vote to forward a recommendation at next week's meeting and it will then be on the December Council agenda for a full Council consideration in December cool y thank you all right I think that's it for ano uh Community Relations Committee uh there was a request from councel brown to continue the discussion uh not sure if Sheila can share that meeting uh I'm tempted to hold off on this one just because there wasn't any specific item that we were talking about um and I believe um councelor Brown has also been in communication with the mayor so I think without any specific item to talk about I think I would postpone that for now so we don't need to have a CRC meeting that month so we're canceling it for December yes all to November uh January yeah uh Ways and Means has the uh memorandum of agreement is that the only thing guess that's it for Ways and Means I am told that there may be a couple of additional first readings coming forward for the council but we have received nothing yet so um going to uh the draft of the city council meeting we've got the appointments we've got the memorandum the four zoning and we're removing the Adu the last two adus yeah and we're adding the amendment to chapter 49 what oh meetings fromo potentially thank you expected yes I'm guessing the first there will be first readings for uh fund transfers I guess yeah I think that's it do anyone to have anything else um I'll just add I don't know what's going to happen yet but I do think it could go under new business for something that might come up which is that I got a number of emails about um idling trains um and I I actually spoke to two of my neighbors um yesterday and today I spoke to another one so um I'm looking up one of the neighbors did tell me that there was some state law trains idling in the city in cities for more than 30 minutes at a time which definitely happens like I live across the train tracks it definitely happens but I don't know what our recourse is with that if any and if this has ever come up before but I am at this point it's I've heard from half a dozen constituents in the last couple weeks so um there might be something coming up could go out on a Lin here and say that would be probably an executive issue yeah nothing that we can do I did email the railroad folks that I have the emails for because I have also been trying to get them to clean up a lot of land that above my precinct and counselor Perry precinct for two years now and we cleaned it up this yeah September um usually the only way it gets done yeah but we I mean Marlo's people came and picked a lot lot of stuff up so meanwhile they'll probably tell you trust paing yeah just to point out that this is not on the agenda yes so well railroad was new business yeah this one's yeah this is important because I also got uh own message on that and it sounds like it's getting worse AB normal that sit there right on Hope Street and that that hasn't been the norm yeah and the like compressor goes off a lot it's been worse for the past few months than I've been there 15 years and it's right for the past few months okay so we bet we'll add that and I will also We'll add that to new business on the council agenda um I don't know not for this month agenda but I think we should if it could go on next month's committee chairs I feel like by then there might be a know where to go yeah to talk about that and I'll talk to the mayor too if you want to we can yeah try to find out what we can do or someone to do something that's wonderful great I guess I'll take a motion to adjourn so moved second and we will need a roll call V for that councelor bottomline yes councelor Gilmore is still not here councelor Bullock I yes I'm a yes I'm here and I'm a yes counc go up yes councilor toronzo yeah you have a well whatever thee is a yes [Music]