i'll call this meeting to order uh this is the Greenfield City Ways and Means Committee of Tuesday April 15th um this meeting is being recorded by the Ways and Means Committee if any other person's present or doing the same
you must notify this guy at this time sweet um we'll do a roll call of members uh councelor Toronto that's me yeah I'm here councelor Bottomland here councelor Master Terrell here councelor Brown here councelor Perry here beautiful we have a
full committee um I guess we'll start with the approval of the minutes from March 18th 2025 uh do I have a motion second you is there discussion on said
minutes all right um all those in favor of approval i I thank you all for being in person makes our lives quicker and easier can't tell you how ecstatic I am to be here tonight
um and yes the elephant in the room this is a fruit blow up that I took from my children because they didn't want to eat it so just want to get that out of the way um but we're going to go to public comment uh we have I think is it one one
listed okay if you want to come up uh Glenn and then uh if there's anybody Yep just leave your hand up and I will get to you after we uh have the the in person
here and if anybody else ends up throwing their hand up afterwards we'll uh I'll get to them uh subsequently thanks all right go ahead good evening i'm here tonight as both a
citizen of Greenfield and a school committee chair to offer my support to our schools and to advocate for a responsible budget that achieves our mission and meets our students needs for the programming and services they deserve with the recent redistricting
vote at the school committee's monthly meeting last week the superintendent is now tasked with reviewing personnel and programming that will meet the needs of students due to the shift but regardless the impact of the budget reduction by the mayor will be felt
immensely underfunding our schools will increase class sizes and reduce resources and supports available to students thank you all right um I saw Stephanie's hand first so
we'll go with you go for it oh sorry i need to Hi Stephanie Duclo um I'm a homeowner taxpayer at 166 Chapman Street
um I like the budget that the mayor has put through i do have concerns about um possible tax implications um due to policy decisions um regarding federal
funding i'm I know that the uh city is very dependent upon those types of funds and that I hope that when we are passing policy decisions or ordinances or bylaws
that we completely consider the effect it may have on um potential tax increases to the 6,000 or so um taxpaying uh property owners here in Greenfield so when you guys are making
these decisions I know they're hard um let's keep this based on numbers and not a lot of feelings thanks thank you um I saw Kirsten was up next with her hand up oh you're muted i'm sorry i think Can
you hear me now yep yep hi guys um I know you can't answer questions um but I noticed that on your agenda was the um free cra cash transfer for the tax title taking and I I'm not sure i realize that
litigation was probably involved in that um and so maybe there's an executive session where y'all were debriefed on uh that but I'm as a taxpayer I'm curious about that so I'm hoping that when that
comes up there will be a robust discussion and um I understand the Supreme Court made their ruling and perhaps this is the way it's got to be but I also understand that the laws were the laws at the time that uh properties
were taken so just curious about that and wanted to offer that up so uh thank you guys for what you do and that's it oh sorry Redell Street in Greenfield thank
you and uh next I see Molly has got her hand up so go go go for it Molly hi Molly Merritt uh Solar Way in Greenfield um I am a Greenfield resident obviously and a parent um I would really like to
send my child to the Greenfield public schools um but it feels like it's getting to be a harder and harder choice to make as the schools seem to be under attack and um are at risk of losing funding um every single year so I'm just
here to um ask you to do what you can do to refund the schools um appreciate the detail that Glenn gave about what this would actually mean um fewer resources larger classes um so yeah I'm just I'm a
resident i'm a parent i'm a taxpayer i want our money to go to support our schools um I am particularly concerned about the uh $100,000 police cruisers that um are in the budget for this year
wondering if uh we really need to spend $300,000 on those my last car cost $9,000 um so yeah I'm just here to uh ask you to refund the schools and take a hard look at the police budget because I
think there's some unnecessary stuff in there thank you yep um is there anyone else out in uh TV land that wanted to do public comment
all right so seeing that I'm going to close uh public comment tonight we have no public hearings um our first motion is transfer 354,000 from precash tax title legal
expenses to settle a pending litigation related to the tax title taking of real property do I have a motion on this one uh so move hey there we have a second second all
right thank you um so discussion well doesn't seem like we have much of a choice i guess I should probably read this sorry read the the short shortened version uh there is an order to tra uh
motion for an order to transfer 354,000 for pre-cash tax title legal expenses to settle pending litigation related to this tax title taking real property um majority vote would be
required but I don't have any we didn't get a whole lot of back on this one but um know what it's for yeah this is a subtle fan i don't I don't know if it's
proper right to have the mayor address us or talk at some point or where to leave this but because we did have an executive session so correct um but my understanding this is a
settlement to pay for the house the city took um which was a we had many city council debates and a lot of public comment on phone equity theft so this just seems like the right thing to
do i I I don't think we have a choice i mean there's uh reports have found that uh you don't have much choice at this i mean there's precedents been set in the courts so yeah
all right i mean I will I will say myself um I do agree with uh what I I don't want to speak for her but I believe what what Kirstston was moving at was something that I've said in open session previously was I don't
understand how um litigation can happen against something that was legal at the time and then was found to be illegal after the fact but so I disagree with settling on this at all i don't think we should be
entertaining this at all and I think I said that even when we were um in if I can say that in close session um but however um I also understand that it would probably cost us more than this to fight
that battle at state federal court um and so sometimes you got to pick your battles and this is definitely not one that I'm glad it's over i'm glad that there's been a a hard line drawn in the sand of when this timeline is going to
happen um again completely disagree with trying to go back in time but um that's uh sometimes the way the cookie crumbles
I guess anything else all right um well all those in favor of a recommendation to positive recommendation to the city council i All right um moving on to
Yay our first budget discussion um so we start tonight with the schools uh Franklin County Technical School up first there's any kind of [Music]
presentation actually there is all right um that's okay uh does anyone have having looked over it well I think we were supposed to get a separate hand out but I
understand for one we didn't get no what page you got i think there's also there was a separate email right but I thought there was going to be a packet here waiting for us
from Facebook that wasn't until I have rented it we can revisit this i'll give another opportunity for that to happen we do
have that uh April 30th meeting so we'll reach out for a little more clarity on that one budget book is a is attached to an email in our It is I would like it I'd like
to have the opportunity for questions on it the odds of I think we can probably postpone this to a later meeting to to incorporate this into the
April 30th uh and then we've got uh Greenfield Public Schools if uh uh come join the the big rectangular table see it name up there
um so I would um as as noted uh for for everyone for these budget meetings a presentation is not not required so to speak but if you have something you would like to present uh it's always encouraged um if you do not um then we
appreciate you being here for questions that might arise sure um I wanted to just start with maybe a little statement considering the recent vote to change redistricting and just maybe a potential for future
discussions with you now that I see you have the April 30th meeting as well but um I do have handouts of just the FY26 budget and the presentation that I did to the school committee um if anyone
wants those however as you can imagine um with the shift in plan that happened at the last meeting um we now have to pivot and really address the current reality of not sending the fifth grade
back to elementary or the eighth grade back to the middle school so um that doesn't happen overnight we've been working on redistricting you know and scheduling for the buildings since uh early October i was at the high school all day yesterday to schedule the eighth
graders now in a current high school schedule that they aren't planning on having so we're looking at the needs that will be required under collective bargaining agreements to cover preps and things like that um I spent today talking to middle school and then we will end with our elementary
reconfiguration um I think it's important to recognize that you know the directives originally from the school committee's budget finance subcommittee along with the committee as a whole was really to present the needs-based budget that was
originally and really just providing a whole approach as to what it costs to educate our students in Greenfield um we have certainly a lot of supports and programs in place because we are district and turnaround and we are under desi oversight but we also want to make
sure that the experience our kids have is enriching with art music field trips extracurriculars so um the realities are that we are faced with um time energy supports PD personnel that support all of those students
programming and educational experience and we realize that it is costly we also recognize that there is a need to be collaborative with the mayor and the city with budgeting and being fiscally responsible um and also the financial constraints that we're all facing with
regards to whether or not federal funding will be cut in the future and what that will look like in 2027 and beyond so we are working to um really take a look at the needs that are in place for covering classes and making
sure that students have teachers in front of them we've had recent retirements even as of Friday I've had two people submit their retirements so that always plays into the configuration of what cuts we will have to make instead or not because of those
retirements and really just trying to be mindful of what the needs are at the building base level and um what we can cut and live without but without getting us down to bare bones operationally um with that said you know
we welcome if you would have us back on the 30th where we could give you the true cuts because we'll have to have a special sub uh school committee meeting so that they can see the actual cuts that are going to need to be made and then see where we're at in terms of um
where we're at with fiscal needs but I'm happy Andy's online um you do have our line item budget you have uh my presentation that was given which has building based information and happy to
answer any questions there as well yeah um I read the I read the the school or the the the school committee policy and I I just want to bring attention to a couple of few items um what policy are
you on that um this is file DBJ budget transfer authority in keeping with the need for periodic reconciliation of the school department's budget the school committee will consider requests for transfers funds as they are recommended by the
superintendent committee wishes to be kept a breast of the need of these adjustments so that it may be may act promptly and expedite financial recordkeeping for the school district all funds in the general account not expended by the close of the fiscal year
will be returned to the municipality my question is when is the last time that's ever happened maybe that's a question for I haven't had a close of year end yet so I don't know but maybe Andy can answer you
uh yes uh thank you for that question so uh in our monthly reports we provide I'll deal with the budget transfers first budget transfers are pres hello can you hear me now do you have a mic volume on your end
perhaps I have a I am speaking into a headset okay that will work so uh every time we do budget transfers they are included in our monthly reports to the school committee and so uh those are presented
as part of that report as to the funds being turned back to the town any unexpended funds uh the the practice has been when we have been here and prior business managers Mr
number Mr barber Miss Gilman uh is that we spend the local budget first and then so since we've been here and then I went back and checked those years all the the local appropriation has been fully expended
well but here's here this was approved in May of 22 so I guess my question is is you guys made your own rules and it doesn't seem like they're being followed
um so I that's that's an issue um I I was I I guess I I don't understand uh the comment about making our own rules we're policy policy book was made by
the the school committee right so we expend the local budget first we charge everything to the local budget and then if we use the grant in accordance to the grant parameters and everything has been charged to the local and if we then use our revolving accounts as we planned now
admittedly as I reported to the school committee last time and it happens every year prior if indeed there are funds available we will end up trying to preserve reserves in our school choice or sped tuition or transportation for
contingency emergency purposes and fully expend the local appropriation first so we're adhering to the policy there if there ever is any money available in a local budget it does get turned back to the city so I guess this would might be an
appropo followup to that um we're being asked essentially to expend our quote unquote rainy day funds um for the schools right now when the schools have their own rainy day funds
that aren't being used first um the rainy day funds for the city i I use that in quotes um would be covering all departments and I don't think it's fiscally
appropriate to be year after year um trying to always spend down any rainy day funds we have for one particular department now don't get me wrong don't I don't want anybody mincing my words
that I don't care about schools i deeply care about the schools i've been a big proponent of it since I got here and even before my kids are in the school system as well um but there hasn't been another department
that's asked in the same way and I've been here four years on Ways and Means and every year it's the same department that's asking for it and I get it it's tough it's tough for everybody it's not an easy job but to to to end up finding out to
see some balances on these accounts that are for lack of a better word slush funds um that aren't being expended first if if this were the DPW if this were the
police if this were whatever department they would be spending down their reserves before asking the city to spend the total city reserves on it first and so while we're sit I'm sitting
here looking at a spreadsheet from uh April 4th where there's over $5 million in balances right now and I understand not all of those things are supposed to be intended for this year i get that there is there is
forward forward funding uh with state money that is anticipated for for future years however when looking back at the balances from the last three years and seeing that that money hasn't been spent down and all
that it's doing is increasing and acrewing why is that money not being allocated first to cover these shortfalls if you will that are that are being asked in the budget
um that being my I guess my first question um the other part um we're really looking for a like a level services budget um I know it was asked before and I think it's really
incumbent um for that to get to us as soon as possible because we haven't seen what that would look like um and that was that was asked back November in November um and I think that that that's that's really important for us to get as soon
as possible we are going to be voting on the budget within the next month or so um and again I I don't I didn't plan on having the April 30th meeting be a continuation of things like this but if we have to we have to um that was in
originally uh intended to be uh our final meeting on on budget before we go to full counsel and deliberations and all that but I I certainly we've got time we've got time to make those changes and address those concerns um if
that can be if that type of budget can be delivered to us um with those adjustments and and as you stated superintendent um especially now that there are going to be changes to
what was perceived um when the budget it was originally submitted um I think that those any of those adjustments that could be presented um as soon as you can um but definitely
before and it would be nice to get them before the 30th so that we do have time to review it before we and we can we can discuss it on the 30th um so if that can be done that'd be great but I guess to go back to the other one
um why are the why are the the rainy day funds of the schools not being utilized prior to asking for rainy day funds from the city to be used for the schools we are using some of the reserves and some of the other reserves have specific
uh applications that we have to use them for so you know in our budget proposals with the different configurations we were using up to it's looking here approximately 500,000 out of reserves in the budget that we have configured
because we could not cover the 1.889 without due so there are some that aren't reflected in that actual spreadsheet that you have in front of you that we brought to the school committee because it will be necessary there i mean with that kind of a cut
there is absolutely going to have to be reserved used is there a reason why there's not more of that being used so because the reason I say this is I don't think a lot of folks out there we get you know we get emails from people and I get it it's
um nobody wants to cut from the schools right nobody does um they want us to cut from all these other things they think we shouldn't have police cars and and and things like that it's like there's they don't understand the different pockets of money and what they're there for and what
um what is required for infrastructure across the entire city it's not just one department and though schools being close to half of the the entire budget it doesn't mean that sorry folks everyone else you know
every other department needs to suffer for it and like I said I'm not well every department's got infectious about every department and there's a lot of places where you know if you look at it there's there's some increases in some departments well those increases are
small at best and some of them are making up for those other departments that gotten cut in previous years so it's not really it's not really an increase i I said this to someone else the other I said "If I'm making $25 an hour and then all of a sudden my pay
gets cut to 20 and then the next year you give me a 250 raise I didn't make any money i'm still cut right?" Like a lot of departments have had to face this throughout the years and and so there's a little bit of like clawing back out of you know the
hole that was given to them in previous years so it's it's I just wanted to be clear that this isn't um this isn't any sort of attack on the school department this isn't uh none of
these budget numbers tended to be and I hate it every year when we do this it becomes like a department versus department like butting heads and it's like that's that's not how you know the entire budget is supposed to be created
um everyone has to you know work together and there's going to be cuts in certain places and there's um ways we can fill those and and so with with having the reason I say that is 500,000 that'll cover some
things but there's another four and a half million in there um what what is that waiting for because our our reserves that people are you know who who aren't aware of this are asking us to tap
into are recommendations and requirements in order for us to keep a bond rating which keeps the cost of everything else that we borrow in the city including for the schools especially for the schools we're still paying off the high school
um it keeps those numbers down if we draw down on those reserves our bond rating goes down which means our interest rate goes up which means we pay more in the long run that's not smart money if you guys draw down on your reserves to zero even that affects
nothing affects nothing other than you not having any more reserves that would be the money if it were my money that would be where I would draw from first because there is no bond repercussion on that so that's why I'm saying if there's still
going to be money left over and like I said I know the the other four and a half million not all of it is supposed to be for this year some of it's going to be for the you know the next two subsequent years but why wouldn't that be utilized first there's still esser money left over and I don't I don't want
that going to um go to salaries either but that could supplement uh that could supplement uh supplies one-time expenses and then we can you know you figure that out in the in the the forthcoming years but it
doesn't it doesn't require a pink slip uh if it's not funded after that uh so but why wouldn't the those be utilized first before asking the city to draw down on things that would potentially
cost everybody all the taxpayers extra money and up to if not exceeding what we can even appropriate in a 2 and a.5% increase per year we can't we just we can't physically fund it and we're not
there's no way we're getting an override right now there's no way so that's why I'm just asking like grabbing a half mil out of what we're seeing in the in the the charts um as available reserves why wouldn't if you need
1.8 take the other 1.3 you're still going to have more left over for next year and it was it's only gone up in the last couple years the reserves have only gone up so that
I guess that's my question is why not draw down more of those that's what they're for right so well I don't think it's fiscally responsible to draw us down to zero of course and obviously we aren't the point where we know what we're going to draw down um with circuit breaker you
know there are some parameters around that that we can't just draw down the whole amount and with fed tuitions in the last three weeks we have had four out of districts that the district has been fiscally found responsible for paying so at any given moment we have to
have reserves we can't keep coming back to city council every time that we are responsible to educate a child sure so there are some other parameters around what we choose to draw down from and when and why i think we've also been clear that we do not have Easter funds
remaining if there's anything encumbered it's then used so I'm curious where that is coming from and maybe Andy if you have munis up you can actually answer that question because those funds are gone um with at least regard to ESSER
but we also are unclear as to what federal funding we're going to get next year we know the instability of the federal government we have title one that we have a $700 and something thousand grant we may not get but that provides services of intervention for our students who are in need and to not
have reserves if we don't have those funds next year will put us in in an even worse position so what we have all agreed to and what we acknowledge is this redistricting and the potential of thinking differently about what
buildings we open and not open in 2026 have given us opportunities to see where we can cut that won't be impactful on our students but reconfiguring that for next year right now is our focus because school needs to open in less
than four months so we really are focused on that and then we will use the reserves that we potentially can without cutting us down to bare bones so that students have programming i'm not saying we shouldn't use some funding but I'm
not saying we're going to zero out our accounts just to um make it easier because we should at least be considered a department in the city that's worth actually funding we received not a dollar this year so I
mean that potential is not a pattern we want to see happen because we are a department of the city we need to be thinking about the children and their education so I appreciate that you think that that is important and acknowledge that but can't be continued to be not
funded moving forward yeah we've I mean just just to note and I know that it was said erroneously earlier this year like the school has been fully funded the last two years anyway um
completely fully funded what was asked um I just want to point that out if this is if this is a year where there's there's a hit that needs to be taken or it can't like I said we would really appreciate and look forward to a level
services budget um that was asked for and though not ideal nobody it's never ideal for anybody um but that would be greatly encouraged um so that we can we can ensure that
we're keeping the programming that's there for the students and u adhering to you know obligations we have to um and it may not be the right time for additions and increases you know but
uh that that's a lot but in your um I'm sorry John in your PowerPoint packet on slide 31 though the level service budget figures are listed they just aren't lined up so you can have the total amount if you are looking for that okay but we certainly can do line items as
well that would be cool yeah i would love to start talking about some specific dollars since that's why we're here and you mentioned this fed tuition fund so I'd like to talk about these revolving accounts because you just mentioned uh how you use these funds so it's
really important to note in count 1504 which is fed tuition you're talking about you you utilize these accounts i believe currently as of April 4th there's 1 million $1,000 in that account a million dollars 20 I have
FY25 i'd have to look at the sheet to confirm it but it looks like you maybe spent $3,000 of that fy24 you spent $24 out of that account $240 is the account number andy go ahead
and then in the year before that you used $248 so I can't and it's got a million dollars in it right now so we do have to look at when you put a million and I also want to return to what councelor master was talking about how these funds get there there's
obviously some federal and state funding that comes to the schools but also there's something called reclassification of funds which is what happens I'm assuming towards the end of the budget year if there's money left over instead of turning it back to the city it gets reclassified and some of
that gets put into these accounts which over the last several years has been millions of dollars that's why it's 5.2 million dollars that is a huge reserve so uh does reclassified funds when you say reclassification this is the first
year in six years I've heard that term reclassification does that come to the school committee because reclassification to me means transfer of funds but I've never in the school committee meetings I've attended them all or watched them all this year seen a reclassification of funds come to the
school committee maybe it's hidden but I don't see it and I don't think that's transparent and I don't think there's adequate oversight uh of how those funds get transferred and uh also in all of these funds like 1521,5154 I believe this is form was
from the school committee that had this um do those occur interest of the money sitting in there because when the city does this it's a little bit more honest that we get our free cash and we put it into stabilization accounts so the taxpayer knows what we're doing we're
putting it into contract stabilization capital stabilization and those accounts draw interest so this is about effectively using our money in these accounts and it's again that's a lot of money and it's nowhere near I'm seeing like your circuit breaker
account you use a lot and it varies tremendously so I'm not saying all of these accounts but I mean over the last couple years I believe the savings have gone up over $2 million so of course I think we have to just in the numbers have to look at the
last three years how you've spent out of these accounts which is very little and when we're facing a crisis because the city two years has had tremendous healthcare increase like it's just it's handicapping us horribly and I don't
know when there's a huge pot of money sitting somewhere that started with the taxpayers and then got reclassified into these funds you know we deserve some answers on that and how that money is spent uh and I also want to refrain from calling
all of this cuts because it was a pretty big wish list of hiring a lot of new positions so it's not really all cuts and it's a lot of money but there's a lot of money $5 million would equal a
whole department um so it I want to I'd like to talk about I mean I think I can confirm here because this came from Munice uh that 1504 has a million dollars in it and and has had almost nothing taken out of it in three years
um 1523 which is the transportation revolving is another one that has a the balance has gone up tremendously uh let me see 1523 is1 million3,000 in it right now i think
Andrew is trying to answer but I'm not sure if he actually Yeah I'll stop talking no that's okay he was just saying can we hear him so so uh to walk through uh I think we all agree as far as taking the circuit
breaker off the table because that's has specific parameters as to its use and the statutoily allowed balances that we can carry over is that a safe statement to say yep yes okay the the sped tuition
revolving account uh well first also I wanted to deal as far as the interest earned uh I I would have to defer to the treasurer as to whether or not they pull these accounts and any interest if it were earned would go back to the general fund but I do not believe that these are
interestbearing and if it was it wouldn't come to the schools but I would need to we would need to check with the treasurer on that i'm 99% sure that it if there are interest earned it would go to the general fund regarding a sped tuition revolving account when we build
the budget and even prior business administrators we've used what's called the all funds approach where we take into consideration the other funding sources the accounting for it ends up occurring rather than say whether it's
periodic journal entry throughout the year the practice has in with the city finance department and the business office would be come end of the year due the moving of the expenses to those revolving accounts so right now the plan
for FY25 on that sped tuition was built with using $73,934 of that sped tuition revolving account those expenses are going to be moved come end of the year to use those funds all things being equal that they
would be needed same with uh the school choice school choice the budget was built with the projected of using $300,000 for FY25 again come end of the year is when we do those normal entries and we're just going on the past practice that has been
in place since when Miss Gilman was the business manager when we've been there previously when Mr barber was the business manager when Mr number was the business manager so that's been the accounting practice of doing these reclassifications it's there's nothing
I'm going to say quote unquote disingenuous about it it is a practice that is allowed and is done across the state regarding the transportation revolving account uh we had reported out that we got a credit due to billing
errors done by the provider so we are generating revenue but we are using that for FY26 the FY26 budget is planned on using $400,000 of that transportation revolving account and so when we look at
th those are our for lack of a better phrase the school equivalent of the free cash the the rainy day fund the school choice circuit breaker sped tuition transportation revolving account the plan from from FY25 to
FY26 is going to reduce those funds available by 27% overall with our projected budget as of right now and as Superintendent Patnau has said you know we're now going back and revisiting where those funds are going to be used even more once it is that we have the
meeting with uh budget finance subcommittee school committee to determine where is it that the ultimate budget is going to lie with where we know now what is being recommended so it's there for a purpose i understand the concerns the reason why historically
the balances have occurred really can boil down to three things eser 1 Easter 2 and ESER 3 those grants when we received them they were designed as I shared with the school committee as a reminder they were given to school
districts to address the learning loss and other things that came out of COVID that were underlying in the schools even prior to the pandemic but one of the offshoots of the ESER funding that they said was they want districts to use the
ESER funding so that it could then create and not have to use their normal reserve accounts however you want to rephrase it so that when those funds go away you have those funds available to you to use for continuation of
addressing learning loss and the things that came to light out of the pandemic so we would be having a different discussion here because come end of the year last year we had balances in the ESER funds where if nobody wants to turn back money to the federal government so
we did what was allowed of amending the ESER grant to use those and fully expend it to yes indeed build up these accounts to then use in the future as I'm saying 27% reduction in our balances is our
plan for FY25 to the end of FY26 i just want to quick respond i It's not that I'm saying there's anything nefarious from the uh using reclassification but no one gets to see that there's no oversight of that that's
my problem no one can actually see where the money is or where it goes uh unless you have direct access to munis which is like just a few people so that's my problem with that in our monthly reports we do give them the revolving accounts and the local budget where if you take
those two together and then also I'll say recently they've asked me to do cover memos explaining it uh I'm always up for trying to make it more transparent but if they look at those two reports uh they would see what's been expended and what's been uh
collected as far as the the revenues generated both in the revolving account report and the munice report that we share with them for the local budget would you consider bringing your reclassification amounts from what account to what
account it's going into to the school committee i just feel like someone needs to see that i would have to defer i guess that would be a question for the budget subject yeah no I'm sorry these are just questions I sitting here i don't think that's a me decision cuz we just find
these things and we keep finding hidden accounts or hidden whatever whatever word you want to use something secret and it's just frustrating after six years to not know what the heck's going on um and also if you have these accounts these balances have gone up so much again where are your financial
policies what should the appropriate balance of these bees should be because the city has recommended balances from the state for each of these funds that's recommended uh and I don't I haven't seen any policy on what what those
balances should be and again you talk about your prediction but I mean how are we supposed to just believe suddenly we're looking at these accounts and now you're saying "Oh yeah we're going to spend them all." Like I just don't I mean we're looking at the past three years and we're seeing very little
expenditure out of these so I just Well I'm not sure that I I believe the credibility of those those numbers well I'm gonna ask for that not to be the tone here John only because Easter was our saving grace and Easter one Esther 2
and Esther 3 I believe Andy alto together was almost $5 million for the district over the last years so that allowed for us to actually build up savings which was the purpose of that i don't the words nefarious uh no one has
oversight and no one is watching any of this is I think a little farreaching because we do do this reports school committee has access to anything they hope they they want to have access to andy will answer any questions for anyone so if they want to take up a new
policy and add the class that certainly would be something a subcommittee policy could be I just want to be really clear that you have choices and if they're horrible choices I'm not saying it's great the city had horrible choices i have a list of every single expense
department that's a whole list of expenses from every department in the city that was cut in this budget and there's $5.2 million of which some of that is circuit breaker and I know that there's a complex array but you have choices to spend that that's
all I want the public to know these are choices instead of gutting the city to try to come up with and and also there is some exaggeration going on of of talking about cutting you know I've heard cut possible cuts of
extracurricular programs strings for kids all these sort of things that I don't know it just feels like it's targeting the emotional target when 5.3 million it's millions of dollars sitting there that you could use or and also
it's a a little disingenuous to say you planned all those savings like I said the city when it receives these funds knows they tell it to the public every year we go through it's going to stabilization it's going to this it's going to this the we we're loosely calling these rainy day funds but the
normal human doesn't really know all the laws that apply to school choice circuit breakers sped tuition transportation revolving except that they've gone up a ton and you haven't used a lot of them for the past three years so we could have the specific dollar amounts but you're saying you haven't used a lot of
this money that's sitting there to build up for what and how much so those would involve planning and I think some strategic numbers rather than just saying we used it and we're just saving up a pile of money i don't think anyone said that i think we said that we're
looking at what's happening and there will be cuts like $2 million is a huge hit to the schools um but we also are thinking about 2026 and what can we afford to cut now because it will
prepare us for less cuts in 2027 and we want to be fiscally responsible as well we don't want to just say "Okay every year we're going to use all of our savings to meet the budget that we thought redistricting was being built around which is no longer the case." And
I think that we have uh understood that we have a 7.97 uh request that is not being met and we are looking at what we can do to meet the 1.889 reduction without decimating any programs without
cutting our extracurriculars so I don't know the rumors that you are alluding to because at no time have we specifically identified what's actually being cut because less than four days ago the plan has changed so now all of the things that I thought we were doing we aren't
doing anymore so with all due respect I don't know who's actually making those decisions in the public when we haven't actually made those decisions internally and presented them to a school committee so we are trying not to affect the experience of our students and we're
trying to make sure that they still enjoy and have a wonderful and fruitful education in Greenfield public schools and if that requires that we're using more of our savings then we will look at that as well the other question I had is the mayor had sent out an email
requesting level funding um I'm just wondering I mean did you consider that um did you look for any efficiencies in departments again because there's a whole list of departments that had cuts and did you look for any accounts that maybe had because I didn't see in your
budget meeting any reduction like departments normally come up with some something they find a few thousand here a few thousand there um but it was a pretty large increase so I may need your background on that well the background is that the budget and uh finance
subcommittee directed me to do a needsbased budget so after the input they spent months meeting with family groups CPAC LPAC PTO's they spent uh time having open houses wanting to know
what parents wanted to see in their students education and that is what they were directing me to build the budget around so while I uh appreciate that the November email went out there we did present a level service which still would have been a 5.4%
4% increase I believe is what's on I don't know if you have that in front of you um and that still would have been an increase over uh we have collective bargaining agreements that we have to abide by with people's salaries and the increases that they have um you know we
have things that obviously increases are going to be expected but I was doing what we were directed to do by the school committee which oversees the school's budget and I do have questions sorry I don't mean to keep going on go ahead question
about the the school committee and how they do the budget because I've watched every school committee this year and when we do our budget we talked to every single department head and we asked questions of each department head and in the past I've been told that
principles would come and you could the school committee could do like we do and they could go down by school and they could ask questions of principles so that it felt like there was actually a true review of of the budget and questions being asked because it just didn't really come off that way and
maybe people are are just reading it but there's no there was no there were no public questions like for instance no even asked like what does increasing seven teachers how much does that cost like there was not a single question asked about any expense in that budget
are you asking why the school committee didn't ask those questions are you asking why the principles weren't put on either one or why we why we do this 16 years i was a principal for seven of those and I never had to actually sit before a school committee it's always
been the school superintendent who oversees the departments which is what we did this year starting in October we meet with every department head every building principal and we go through their cost center and see what they need and what we can cut or what can we what did we spend on supplies last year what
did we spend on field trips last year are those line item deficiencies where we can cost save at some point so I've never seen them go for school committee because that would be they could question me so um I don't recall that
ever happening in the history of my time in Greenfield yeah I thanks for your patience um I I got transportation questions um first I'd like to have you help me
interpret um where are you this is page six of the spreadsheet down the bottom purple that's why I want purple tonight i know
yeah i I got questions ready yeah andy you're on mute if you think you're talking sorry I was just pulling up the spreadsheet while I'm trying to multitask go ahead sorry sir yeah uh you mentioned that 400,000 was a
credit that's That's on a uh No it's not a It's not a credit there is a credit this year in FY25 which is why if you were to look at the all funds budget for FY25 there are no expenses planned to
come out of the transportation revolving account fy26 because of that fact we are planning to use 400,000 of the transportation revolving account as the offset to the transportation okay so that's what that 400,000 represents sir
all right so that this is uh not um what you expect to get for revenue for the other school districts that you have the transportation to that's a whole different number right well it's part of the it's part of that that's what you know we have a balance from what we have
and then we will as the plan had been when the district chose to uh do self oped transportation is to be able to provide transportation services to other districts which you're correct we do charge for and receive funds i know last
year was 300 and some odd thousand that brought in from other school districts i don't know what you I I the other night you you gave the mayor some numbers but it was somewhere around 300,000 right
uh yes i'm going to take anyway um that portion of your transportation that you do for the surrounding public schools what line item is that on this
our internal transportation no the the the transportation that you do for the surrounding public schools they pay you they pay you guys a fee to to drive their students to wherever it is they're going right well we have a agreement
with Gil Mon is that what you're referring to well no there's a lot of school districts you drive for he's all pioneer andy so the list you gave the mayor the other night no I'm not looking for the list i'm looking for the line item of what that cost
the in where the income gets deposited it gets the income deposit into the transportation revolving account and then the offset of the expenses are charged to either the transportation revolving account and the expense side
or what I'm asking is you've got all these line items here you know sped transportation staff 9 just shy of a million dollars how much of that is the expense
to to man those buses for other districts do you follow what I'm saying i do follow what you're saying to I would have to that's going to take some uh I I can get that for you as far as a projected amount it's something that All right so there's no specific line item
that on here that it's it it I'm going to say it's it's embedded in the the school's budget where why it is that we the when the district chose to go to selfoperating the revenues come in as an offset to those expenses in the local budget right
so that's the point it's an offset correct which is no different than the offset for circuit breaker excuse me the way I see it is and I and you've actually said this yourself twice i've
heard you say this in in past meetings it's not covering the entire It's not covering the cost the the the revenue generated by driving students from other school
districts does not cover the expense to perform that service so it's running at a loss it makes absolutely no sense to me i mean it's great that we work with other
school districts but it makes no sense to run a business which is essentially that's what it is at a loss for for several years you're a businessman right if you had if your business ran a loss
for more than a couple of years would you consider like cutting your losses and maybe you know selling your business getting out from under it the point is the Greenfield
taxpayers are financing the other school districts for us to take them places uh I need to clarify i don't I think you might have I apologize if I wasn't clear the transportation costs for the other districts we do cover th those are a
gain to us i whenever it was I was asked about the transportation and the van purchases it was under uh I believe it was like even member Goodwin mentioned that the plan was that the whole van fleet would end up being covering the
overall transportation budget that is not the case it was never I I would say I would like to think it was never said that it would be self-supporting operation the charging of for the transportation we do for other school districts do in fact generate revenue to
cover the expenses and then some as an offset to our operations i I would like to see that because it it doesn't show it i mean there's two sides to the ledger that that service that the the
Greenfield public schools provide these other school districts should have its own line item this is what it costs us to do it this is what we we take in to do it if you go
to page 21 we have like 20 some odd drop 13 or 14 i checked before I Well these are all the same number 13351130 that That's a code for these
bus drivers correct with many vacancies currently employed Philippine drivers okay but this is the these salaries are listed are these like are in your
proposed budget all these salaries because we currently need them but they're vacant so and our transportation does cover students a free I understand that I understand be clear that no watching
this that we are not just transporting students that are not public schools i I understand that's why I specifically ask for what the costs to transport those students and how much we get to do it and what's the
formula i mean do you charge by the mile do you is there a flat fee is uh the maintenance of the vehicles included in your overhead i mean you're running the business and again there's
two sides to the ledger and I'd like to see if in fact the Greenfield taxpayers are financing these schools because if you're running at a loss it may not be a huge loss but
nevertheless our taxpayers are paying for these other school districts they should be very grateful to us um and the other question I have is are the are the bus drivers I know they're union drivers
right are they benefited positions okay so that's that's that's on the city side that expense no so I I just don't know if providing that service for the other
schools as great as it is is worth worth it i mean if it costs more then it's generating it it's bad business it's just bad business maybe
you know you're paying you're paying rent blessed sacrament church 203 20,300 some odd dollars a year there's maintenance that needs to be performed you bought two new vans or two
used vans by the way you did not go through the proper channels for that we've had the discussion uh the capital expenses are supposed to go get commissioned there's a there's I'll call Dr bar and I'll let her name
um okay like we're counting nickels and dimes here okay and and if if it's if it doesn't make sense you know maybe uh maybe you know
you put some of those buses up for auction and just cut your losses and worry about worry about Greenfield and Pioneer you know to transport our students i understand that it's quite expensive we don't use our own kids i I understand
that that's not what I'm saying contracted services that is quite possible that is not what I'm saying i just think if year after year you know if you know what Einstein said
if you do the same thing year after again and again expecting a different result it's insanity and this the transportation is it's very like mysterious to me because there's no line item there's no
line item you're essentially running a business uh and I want to know if it's a failing business and the taxpayer should know if it's a failing so thank you i'm going to I'm going to
piggyback on that one just for a minute um Andy maybe you can tell me um you said we got a a credit this year because of a an erroneous thing i remember that uh vaguely do you remember
how much that was for give me one second sir you were always said "Don't call me sir i work for a living $130,83840 and so that was applied for this fiscal
year correct fy25 correct okay um so my question is I'm seeing we started the year with three4ers of a million dollars um we've generated almost 300 in
revenue we've expended 15,000 now taking into account that change you were talking about we're still operating in that avenue at a positive um and I know that we use some of that and I know you were
saying our projection for next year might be higher but what what would be the reason for that projection to be used if we already had a huge balance to start the year and even with the credit
we got we're still gaining more into that account so what what is going to make next year so different when we haven't expended out of that account it seems like for a a number of years uh I think I'm going to answer it this
way in the sense of we are in thinking ahead the plan is since we got that credit and when the final credit was determined and when we are building the FY25 budget it was planned to anticipate using that for subsequent
years because of the fact that overall with the transportation contract for the the bid we saw a significant increase so we wanted to have that available in future years which is why we're using 400,000 for FY26
and I'm I'm seeing on this report that our prior year revenue on that account was almost 400,000 itself so wouldn't that essentially be uh wiping out just that year's revenue
but we would still have uh we'd still have the same balance that we have now uh yeah yeah you're you're correct in the sense that and this goes back to the discussions about whether or not we choose to use more when we were building
this budget for FY26 it was determined that we wanted to use 400,000 but again I was saying we're starting with you know at our projected balance as of 63025 was going to be about just shy of
a million $948,000 we're generating more revenue so again thank knock on wood and you know that's a a testament to the the program but come projected for FY26 uh end of of FY26 we'll have used
reduced that balance by just shy of $200,000 so again planning ahead for future years is what it you know with the starting with the balance we had in FY starting FY25 the fact that we had the credit so
we didn't use or nominally use for FY25 to then therefore allow us to use more for use in FY26 okay so it seems like but the projection seems to be that we're probably going to generate the same amount of revenue
we're going to generate almost $400,000 and then plan on spending $400,000 so that's going to it's going to wash right so relatively going to wash so we're going to have the same balance so to speak or pretty damn close to it as to
what we're going to have at the end of this fiscal year so the reason I'm saying that is would that not be a place to draw something out of if that's going to be a revolving account that is essentially
it's paying for itself every year and it seems like the draw the the the comparison to what is to what is generated versus what's expended is is within you know couple of percentage
points tens of tens of thousands maybe and we have a million dollars in that account wouldn't we wouldn't that be maybe a nice place to to start if you wanted to
draw something down to cover i don't know that would be to me that would be a good place for some rainy day takings um I wouldn't disagree but also I was thinking one of the challenges that the
when the decision again I'm repeating myself but to go self op and then try and seek out additional districts where we can bring in revenue is that those aren't necessarily guaranteed so you know to project out to say that you know
and I hear what you're saying i'm not disagreeing with you on the fact that we're looking at having close to revenue with what it is that we're projected to expend but it's just the the projection ahead to say that that's going to sustain itself when as Superintendent Panau referenced we're having a
difficulty finding drivers uh we've actually had because of that fact our transportation coordinator and the assistant actually drive roots and then on top of that honestly uh one of our clients reached out asking if Greenfield could help support their transportation
and we just can't do it because of the fact that we don't have the drivers to do so so it's that type of challenge where I again not disagreeing with you Councilman but it's uh it's that that type of prognostication or projections ahead which uh makes it a bit of a
challenge but not disagreeing with you on your $400,000 comment okay i'm not saying we take it all i'm not saying we take it all though um I'm just saying that seems like a pretty sustainable account for now i I take
your point um Andy on on that's not a forever thing and so that's why I agree that all places should have stabilization i was never intending that you go down to zero um but even if we didn't have let's just
say some of the revenue from doing other areas and we were losing 100,000 a year that would take us 10 years to draw to drain that account um so if there was a place to quote unquote borrow from
um on a rainy year um I was just suggesting maybe that's one of them that maybe we took like 200,000 out of it it would still sustain itself for at least another eight years or what have you um but anyway that's
um that's my spiel on that one um are there other questions won't be popular for this one but um you thought this was going to be a popular back in 2021 the administrative costs that I was adding up were 1.2
million and in going through it the 2026 budget is placed to 3 million so I'm just I don't know why such a huge increase in administration in in six years sorry and I'm I'm taking this above 1.5
million came off the basic budget and then included off there we're trying to find special ed administration custodial supervisor head nurse tech director uh there's an administrative expense allowance there's business administration contracted services and
transportation director which were all not part of the 1.5 that I could find on the So I don't know it just seem that just seems like a lot postco suspension laws changed and we have to do alternative measures and then
keep instituting alternative measures which requires more leg work and boots on the ground with behaviors and social emotional needs we are a district in turnaround and we are in oversight with the statewide system of support we are a
district that is under tiered focus monitoring with regard to our ELLL programming and non desi oversight we are a district that is under a desi coordinated program review for our special education and we are in needs assistance which requires leg work of
administration and additional tasks to be undertaken we have three subgroups that are underperforming and we need oversight on that data and seeing where they are performing we have a ninth grade course failure rate that is above the state average and we need to start programming
and having u those administrators to do a lot of that leg work a lot of things postcoid also increased with regards to um we were talking all in the fall when I first started with the behaviors at the high school and uh the potential
return of an SRO and those administrators actually are the people that deal with those behaviors on a daily basis and have to navigate all of the situations that are occurring that does not mean for a minute though that we are not looking there first for cuts
because we want studentfacing positions to be what remains and we understand that um if we do have to take a hit in the administration um arena that is something that we're willing to do so that those studentf facing positions
remain so I don't want people to think that we are not thinking about every potential cut i appreciate that and that's good to hear there's a just a couple observations for me you know we're all in the same ship so it doesn't matter
where you are in the ship if the ship sinks you know it's great if the school is doing great but if the cops can't get there to confront incident going on then what's the point the fire department can't get there to put a fire out because they're underst staffed then
what's the point if the buses are tied up because the roads can't get fixed then what's the point so that's you know we've gotten 25 emails in the last day and a half and we all know what they're saying you know and that came from
somewhere and you said a few minutes ago that you guys can't control rumors that's true but you can knock them down when stuff happens the youth legislation thing on Thursday was a wonderful experience it was great to sit there and hear these kids talk but there was someone in a position of authority and
power telling the kids in that room cut your sports no more music no that was not the place for this person to be talking about that stuff to the kids you know and I only heard it kind of after the fact by a third source so I can't really
confirm it but that's what I was told when I was walking out that was just inappropriate you know and that's how rumors start and how rumors fester and when we have these lobbying campaigns with the same emails the same talking points it's just very frustrating to
hear that i'm just filling a seat until the end of the year i've only been here less than two years but I can see how frustrated people can get and how people just throw in the towel because it's always us versus them and this versus
that what about us and we don't think big picture and someone pays the price the act the only thing I'll take I'll say from uh the youth thing which is great the thing I heard from the kids I sat through the substance of group one twice and the thing I heard from the
kids was and I hate to say this and but I'm going to say it because it was it was said by more at least eight kids they don't trust the administration they don't feel like they're heard by the administration they don't sense that you know they matter the administr ation and I turned to the guy who was uh chairing
the group and I said there's a real disconnect here are you going to take this back to your bosses he said yes I will do that but to me that's scary when we're because that's all I've been hearing for the last three four years administration administration administration well if there's a disconnect between the kids and
administration there's a real problem so the money part is tough but it's tough for that guy and it's tough for everybody in the city it's tough we got to do I'm used to crisis management i I I've come from places where crisis
management is just a thing you do and I don't sense that there's a real sense of crisis uh by some of the players in this town they're just hoping for the miracle to happen or they're waiting for someone to bail them out and I think just we
have to do a better job all around of dealing with the crisis that we're facing if this is not a time for rainy day fund money I don't know when is you know you can keep pushing the thing down the road i have to laugh because I feel
I hear some of your predecessors in my ear talking about this stuff five years ago warning people warning people warning people and some people some of us laughed them off and said you're really reacting and now where we are you know it happened and we can just keep
denying it and keep hoping for something else to happen and keep hoping but you know sooner or later we're going to hit the rocks all in a sink if people just don't start looking at this as a collective hole that's my rant sorry but you
know I'm not a money expert i trust people i trust department heads to come and do their due diligence and do the best they can and I trust the people in positions of of authority and and experience to tell the truth and be
honest and be open and that's all I can hope for until someone show tells me or I I see that someone lied to my face i have to trust people but I hope in turn people take that responsibility seriously and do what they're asked to
do and what they're required to do to help everybody in this city from the kindergarten kid to grandma and the nursing home and everybody in between thanks small um I just wanted to ask a small
question and also just acknowledge that this is stressful so thank you for being here and um navigating this as you don't Yeah it's hard when we're all in this unknown together and um hopefully we can trust that we do want to do what's best for the schools and also the city as a
whole and that so thank you for that my question is for Andy um I would love to understand the breakdown for the line item for business administration the other just I
didn't I just have it on the budget sheet i don't know sure the the business administration is the assistant business manager the accounts payable accounting assistant the human resource payroll
person and the assistant to that business office pos the payroll position as well um and how much of that is your salary that's not in that line okay that's in
the contracted services line um where and what number is that and what is that one below it if you're in the spreadsheet it's the 13411210 5200 page seven John thank you
oh my gosh i can't be that second white line and then right below it so so your so is that 272,000 no that's the administration he believes
it's me oh sorry he's below all right so that's 157,000 and how many schools are you contracted for at a time the company as a whole we are in about 13 um or how many schools are you paid for
say that again covers the whole district is that what you're asking it's let me I guess maybe let me try and explain it this way when districts hire us they're not hiring the person that is
sitting in the office whatever days a week that the district requires the person to be there for there we have what I finally call a bullpin of staff that handle all TMS clients so when you
look at the total FTEES that Greenfield gets with our services it comes out to about a 1.40 FTE for the amount of support that the district receives for the contract
okay thank you all right i just uh I appreciate you guys being here i I again um kind of going off of what WID was saying um unfortunately the rumors the rumor wheel does work
um and it's unfortunate that it gets painted in a light like I said of department versus department um when when we get folks every year you know coming to us around this
time uh you know I remember that's why I was I was a little bit insulted the other year um after we worked really hard we got we got pled to by a former school committee chair um who came there and sat with your
predecessor and uh pleaded to us that you know the the money need to be there because same things were always on the chopping block you know strings for kids middle school Spanish uh all these other things it was you know it was really kind of gross in my opinion because you're pulling at you're trying to pull
at heartstrings of people to make a financial decision And I don't like it when other departments have done it either i didn't like when the police came and said "Oh you're not gonna have anybody working the overnights and they use scare tactics." That was dirty right like the tactics are not we all know
that if there's cuts to the point is if there's cuts to be made to any department that's for the department to figure out and it's going to happen in other places we've you know Marlo's been cut I don't know how many times in the past but he's got to figure out you know
um the the h the hyperbolic nature of um and I'm saying this also to the public and in in regards to the emails that we receive and it has nothing to do with you guys specifically but the hyperbolic nature of of what comes out of it on like this is what's going to
happen if this doesn't happen is it's it's it's ridic ridiculous i know it's mainstream media nowadays and that's how things go around and Facebook and whatever the other social media graph is but the fact matter is when we funded
that that year we we went out of our way we fully funded it and guess what there was still no middle school Spanish so why why were we cried to why if if there's going to be a cry and say this is what's going to be cut and then you get the funding and you still cut it
again this wasn't you guys but I'm using it as the example because that like I said that sticks with me that sticks with me as as disingenuous um from any department and you know I I just think that's really
important for every department to know when we're doing budgets is all right we all know if something gets cut if we have to cut the fire department okay we might lose a firefighter and you know that might affect staffing and and you know response times and things like
that like I think everyone's the adults in the room are are aware that those things might happen but they still need to happen to make the rest of it go on like like Wood was saying you we we we're putting together a budget for the entire city and for any
of these divisions I'm reading the word right on there division five public works division four schools like any of the divisions to work they all have to work harmoniously to the best of the ability and so I don't want people thinking that because one year one department's getting an increase and the
next year the other department's getting an increase and one's getting you know it's it's a juggling game and it's difficult it's difficult for everybody and I I really do respect the work that people do in presenting and putting together their budgets and
What we can't expect is that and I'm I'm only saying this because like I said at the beginning this is it's it's a difficult department because nobody want it is about kids and um no one's looking
for them to to to suffer or not get their education and times have changed and things have changed um but so the needs have changed and with
that I just think needs to be a constant um concern about how to adapt for those things like like we all know we're it's a little uncertain right now what what's happening federally and where those fundings are going to go
and all this to While we need to make we need to be skeptical of what's going to come in the future years we can only take care of what we can take care of right now and and not
be not be living essentially in in like a state of of fear and the fear-mongering that can come out of situations like this um like I said same thing with like the the you know not having response times
from the cops or the fire department or you know I I haven't heard this from DPW thank you um that you know oh if you don't fun you know you're there's going to be even more potholes or or like whatever like you know I think we all recognize that that anything that gets
cut is going to have an impact but what's important to know is that the school department like any other department sorry I'm going to task you guys with this ultimately the money that's given
you guys have to decide what to do with and I think that's important for the for the community to know that I say this every year at budget time every year I've said this we can put salaries line and expenses line for every other department we put one bottom line for
you guys but every department regardless of that once you get that number got to figure it out um and so what I don't want to have is any more um I don't know if you want to call it
animosity i don't want it like I said pitting pitting department versus department i don't want the community thing and that it's a department versus department kind of thing and getting pissed off at one group versus another because one's being cut and one's being you know there's a lot more that goes into
that um than than what ends up coming out in the headlines or what comes out on the surface um and I respect I hate the fact that the mayor has to do this i really respect the fact that you have to do it i don't want that position um but I I just want that like I just
wanted to state something about that for kind of the the the tone for the rest of this budget season because I know it's not going to be easy it's not going to be great um I'm hoping
that you know I'm hoping that people can think about something like that when when they are coming to public comment and it's um the the emails that have come out in the last couple days pushing you know like I said pitting one department against
another and you know if you if you're an AAB person don't even talk to me about it because you don't get a seat at my table um when it comes to that like grow up um because we do need we do need police and um it may not be in the way
that you think so but that's that that's not going to solve the problem um for every other department in the city and it will it would create chaos if we didn't have them um but I I don't know i just wanted to say something about that that none of
these are going to be easy decisions they aren't easy decisions for department heads when they're putting them together they're not easy decisions for the mayor for the for capital when we were doing capital and they're not going to be when we're reviewing this as well putting forth the future budget so I just wanted to
hopefully if other clever solutions can be found that would be great those would be good input discussions to have um rather than trying to pit one department against gets another because we all as we had said we all
need everything working together for the city itself to work but um anybody else all right well we appreciate your time good to work tonight nice to meet
you thank you good luck and God speak your turn Marlo you always You always stay the latest wear your black jacket Marlo that's all right so thank you for having me um I don't
have a great big presentation i have kind of an intro and an overview of uh my five budgets uh that I develop what page uh 145 page yeah 145
um so um the five budgets the the three big ones are our water enterprise sewer enterprise and of course the general budget um and I have a smaller revolving fund which staffs two employees transfer station and some costs up there um and
the other one is a very small I think $500 two line item uh revolving fund for our sign making machine uh so the wa the the general budget increase by about
$131,442 from the current budget uh water budget increased about 301,631 sewer budget increased about $38942 um and as we go through this budget I'll explain why a lot of those increases happen especially in water and
sewer um so I I did put forth a level uh service budget in all three of the major budgets all the budgets um so what I did do is I restored um to council's point earlier I think
I've been cut every year since 2020 2019 exactly um well by the way with the exception of the current budget so I apologize for that so I did restore four new um what we call summer help part-time positions
that was cut in uh FY the FY20 budget in in the spring of 2019 uh two in the parks department much needed we already have two there one in the solid waste department and one more in the highway traffic division so we have a total of nine summer help and
again this is just an overview we can go over it um we say level services while a lot a lot um a lot of things have not been maintained like I guess they should be since we lost the summer health in 2020 uh they're very important to the
DPW year after the year we take care a lot of the the general labor that they when they get to the general labor the mowing the painting the things like that the downtown district uh the craftsman the the trained professionals
if you will can be doing their jobs uh in the parks department and the other divisions so uh they're they're very important um I've added in the water budget I've added one new position to the water facilities drinking water facilities treatment um over the last
five or six years the let's just say the unfunded mandates the water testing the administration through D and EPA has just increased immensely it's about once a month we get a change um the different compounds we're we're testing in our
drinking water now that's mandated uh by EPA uh is is a significant increase in cost and overall chemicals have been a significant increase in cost in water and sewer about 35% in two years increase for the chemicals we need to
maintain our water and wastewater um I have also added a position in the vehicle maintenance a direct vehicle maintenance supervisor a little explanation on that is from federal standards to state level uh standards
and the fact that we maintain every city vehicle and every every department um by the way we're fully staffed in vehicle maintenance for the first time in two years so it's catchup time um but what goes along with that is a lot of federal standard stuff a lot of inspections a
ton of administrative paperwork it just keeps increasing on like water and sewer i had explained um so it's time that we designate a a position in that shop to to maintain all our records so on and so forth um like they should be maintained
and that those new positions you're talking about are already deflected they're in that budget right yes yeah um and then the only other position that was added that's been much needed for years um is our it's it's not really a position it's appointed position by the
mayor uh is a an assistant tree warden um it's been much needed um Paul Miller our deputy director has been the tree warden he was the first tree warden at Greenfield I believe um he just can't get out when you have 60 70 80 90 trees
to evaluate and there's there's quite a process to evaluate them treats it's it's quite a few forms so on and so forth so this position uh probably it's a stipend will be inhouse um to be helpful on rainy days and whatnot so and
that's a $1,500 stipend for that so that's the only thing those are the only positions that have been added um so for the most part for my budgets with the exception of the signed budget revolving um I've met all the commitments to two
uh collective barting groups that that that perform under the DPW the SSEA and the DPW union um so I had to account for the union contracts and everything that goes along with that so predominantly that is uh a good portion of the
increase in all these budgets just so that we know upfront if you look at the salaries as opposed to last year um and the different things that you provide safety gear and so on and so forth so um that's kind of my intro if there's any
questions on that um and then where would you like to start big sign like general general budget or yeah I mean maybe it would just go straight through like one what 146 and go forward
and if that I think that's that's all the bills right I know that this is a weird order for me um because then central maintenance I think it ends up before somehow maybe it's just because the you
know and I have somewhere around 300 line items in budgets and I went through and scoured every one of them you'll see that a lot of services and supplies I actually was able to level fund them from the current budget um you'll see others that had drastic increases you
know like Blacktop I mentioned chemicals um contractual stuff um contracted services at the landfill the cap landfill there's some things that that are direct contracts that that increased um but some are level funded you're still doing central maintenance
budget correct no you're not no all right all right that's good i know i mean I know that he he is in that way but I was like I didn't know the division a good transition together but
I think with people listening in when you first started talking you mentioned a lot of stuff that you've added to the budget where where where was any savings besides what you just mentioned about supplies and stuff but where have you saved and pretty much keep the budget
the same as it was last year even with the other positions i I think mostly uh the services and supplies if you look at you'll see a lot of them are repetitive from last year i see uh set costs materials and yeah in each division you
know um so I go through all the services and supplies in what I call our eight construction companies in DPW the eight different divisions um and there's a lot of price checking we reach out to us sometimes we don't get cost until after the budget's voted and it's like
throwing a a dart at a dart board with a blindfold on sometimes personnel licenses um budget for uh engineering admin and what are those licenses it could be anything well it can be
anything from CDL renewal hoisting renewal water license renewal some of that's mine i have a distribution water license that is gets re renewed so for the most part that's what the personnel license are in the
engineering department in admin 700 bucks that's crazy yeah because we don't we don't have a lot of you know we the the um the engineering superintendent has a CDL and a hoisting which isn't required but we always carry the licenses as they promote because
example was my license were used this winter so um I do carry them I'm just surprised it's now more um could you talk about I see there's general fund operating for DPWW transfer station is down 39%
the 14 we were gonna go run it oh sorry all right okay wherever you can find it I bet sorry it was going really slow we can do whatever i mean it's only it's like it's like 10
pages we can come back to where ask the question wherever the question 4330 at the top in the green i was looking at page 154 operating budget DPW transfer station
154 page 154 yeah and what was the It says down 39% just was curious about that uh salary
this is on expenses total expenses right above the little the chart that little 62,4 general operating budget said 154 right yeah right above right above the little graph the waste
collection first box above the waste collection graph uh th those expenses actually went down because I reviewed everything um and and again we I tried to find every penny to offset to be level service uh some of
those line items were were actually cut back a little bit because of the three-year look back history I did in UNS what we expended the previous years did you say that a little louder it's a threeear look back is that Yeah and this basically gives us three or
four years that we can see what the the end game was at the budget u and so correct me if I'm wrong uh I know I've been asked this multiple times um but the implementation of the recycling
trucks takes effect this year or next year it's due to the new program is due to uh come into effect probably between the first and second week of July okay so is
that I mean that's gonna save money right i mean overall yes and so is that I know you were constructing this back in November so was that taken into account or would that be something to like have a positive look forward to i I
think the biggest savings I actually have a contract I just received um that will accept a single stream starting in July because our contract runs out the Springfield Mer for the dual stream i haven't completely reviewed it um but the savings is going to be going to the
single stream of what we pay and not pay to to dispose dispose of bad work for recycling but disposal of the recycling okay so we'll we probably won't see that obviously it's not reflected in this budget because this was too early but
when you go to build next year it'll probably be pretty clear what and there was a concern of hauling to Berlin as opposed to Springfield that was part of the the process yeah um what the same company we that we have our trash contract with now has uh offered us to
take our trash to Springfield rather than Wilbur basically even on the whole fuel thing that we talked about yeah and all that so I know we get a little off track but good information no no it is it's good i mean it's just to kind of like have an
idea of like you said like looking at this and seeing a 39% reduction in you know what last year's budget was um is obviously good to see look back but then trying to look forward to what potential reductions
um might be in future potential savings will be in the future um where you know that money could hopefully may be utilized elsewhere whether it's within the DPW itself or in other departments
um you know it's good to find to find things that everything goes up and it's fun it's good to find some that might actually go down i mean a lot of times in the general budget I do do a look back some we'll have a couple of years where we'll have half the budget left
and other years we've overspent so I do think move things around within the divisions increase and decrease but overall about an increase to the overall budget if that makes sense how'd you do this year this cool uh yes
um even numbers were about uh 40,000 to the negative that's not too too bad cons yeah in this budget storms within the two day periods uh that was mostly due to to salt materials salt goes up every year and we dealt with a lot of ice we
had multi- treatments on multiple storms extended storms so we had to stretch an operation yeah and that budget overall snow and ice is 117,800 it's been like that since 2016 and of course overtime salaries and everything of that with the snow and ice
so but there's some years where you're it's under and some years it's over so yeah and some years it's real close what are the what would the cost if you I'm shouldn't hold you to this but what would the cost
implications be for All right it's a two-parter I guess so we only do street sweeping in certain parts of Greenfield Um but there are other parts that haven't been swept in a number of
years and every year the road gets a little more narrow um gets a little bit more slippery um we've got a lot of places that you know up out of the region that gets swept
that are marked on uh like maps and and services or however people find things as as bikeways right and they've got we've got signage up that says this is you know a trail a bike trail kind of uh route that become a little bit dangerous
um motorcycles same thing um what we used to sweep the entire city and I know to save money we stopped doing that what do you know what that might add as a cost if we were to do it because we only we only street sweep once a year right we contract it out once a year yes the
downtown district every month or two get it every month or two okay so if we were to add even just the once a year to the other parts of the city that don't get it um what would that look like and the second part
is would it be behooing for us to as a long-term thought purchase our own and not pay contracted services every year for that and that way we could maybe do it more frequently i know
some you know some places they do it quite often um I mean we're not New York but you know um obviously the downtown gets more attention because there's a lot more street traffic and and trash and stuff that gets thrown but
um just meaning with the again kind of like with the changing times we got a lot more people who are you know biking uh walking wheelchair even like cuz some of the some of the places where there aren't sidewalks and then they have to go in you know the the shoulder of the
road and then it's you know covered with a bunch of debris so I didn't know what that might look like as an option um down the line okay so financially I guess um a little history on why we went to just the an urban district um back in
All right now you're you're digging into my AR as I was a young assistant field superintendent um many moons ago um we went to a straight pre-treatment straight salt uh process so we weren't putting out hundreds of tons of sand on
the streets right and that was a big deal having to sweep everywhere that was really dangerous everywhere um so what came along with that was the inner urban district um because it goes along with impurities that get left behind by vehicles and everything else with the
condensed traffic so on and so forth so that went away I'm guessing 2012 13 um and I think I'm budgeted 42,000 without looking it up so I I I would
venture to say that we probably to do the whole city we're looking at in a just off the cuff here we would double that cost even if it was just for one Yeah because we do everything once now uh when they come in they come at the when it's contracted they come in with
six sweepers and they're gone three or four days for half the city um right but then you say but that 42,000 is not only covering that one time you're saying there's other times throughout the year that more downtown district gets done yeah there's extra money i can't
remember the the per sweep okay but the downtown and the parking lots there's extra funding in there okay gotcha so and then second question is to to own your own sweeper i mean I can look definitely look into that again but maintenance costs they're very very high
maintenance uh expensive piece of machinery and if we only had one I don't know how long it would take one driver to do the whole city right like I said they bring six trucks in and they knock out 50 miles 60 miles and they go over
over everything twice right u so it would be staffing that sweeper and then do we do it at night is probably a better option you know there's variables with that and I certainly can look at that got to be a lot too there's they
they have a that's just a regular dump truck they use to to empty the sweeper yeah and then there's right under under regulation there's only certain places we can dump their sweepings right because of contaminants on it gotcha a D
thing and you're paying for that service with with the contractor they're dealing a dump truck will follow the sweeper where they they can't dump in the urban district meaning the inner parts of the city right we have certain dump sites we have a map that they sweep in where their dump sites are and then we can go
we go in after sometimes and pick up the different areas if they're all done and gone but they do they do chase their sweepers with a dump truck so they can keep moving to sweeper the brushes should get replaced on those
they can't actually like I said they're extremely high i certainly can run that up again i don't have a problem i don't know if it would be I mean obviously cost effective um in the long run maybe not maybe just
contracting out is the way to go um but also looking out for the other parts of the city that don't get covered and and like I said I know we don't use sand um like we used to but there are other you know getting like the catch basin you know um the
storm drains cleaned out because there's a lot of those places where you get the same flooding every year in the same areas and it's really just like you know pine needles and leaves or whatever things like that point sediment yeah right yeah yeah um there's definitely those areas yeah and they seem to be in
the kind of the same places when we get heavy rains in the summer or do we have an option of like do we have like a skid steer the brush broom we we have an open-ended what we call an open-ended broom that attaches to the frontal loader that we we sometimes will use an example
for the um triathlon you know you don't want an open-ended brush putting stuff up on people's front lawns but out in the country area if you will open fields and whatnot we we've used that in the past and we've used it in emergencies right spills and whatnot okay
and I know the are expensive on that to replace i guess a general question on staffing how things are going how they've gone this year i know it's tough tough to find people like how many opening if you know how many openings you have uh I believe we're at
uh number six right now uh we were at one point kind of coming and going up to 12 uh 12 positions um the last three months um we had a very large three three and a half months we've had a very
large influx of applicants uh many with CDLs um and and they accepted you know we interviewed they accepted so um the the rebuilding as I say the rebuilding of the pro football team is is
happening you know uh so like I do have um I I say six five or six but one of them is in the engineering It's not all lad craftsman okay have one position in the engine it's an engineering tech that we have out
there since Alan Torog retired in December and we promoted with them so yeah uh actually I I can say that the general budget um vehicle maintenance
solid waste highway traffic parks forestry are all fully staffed right now probably for the first time since I can remember there is always an opening somewhere um so um in solid waste department and that's huge fully staffed
up there so uh yes we're coming out of it I hope so morale should be improving a little bit uh immensely uh you know it it it was tough sending three or four a day up to the transfer station we were really light staff there and it's like not the most favorite
place for guys to work i mean I know for a while there was a lot of rumors around amongst the troops about people not want to work the transfer station well I I I think it's you know I guess
it's fair to say in the union environment they bid down the jobs in the yard in the water sewer or parks um that's what they come to work wanting to do every day and then they get sent up like three days a week sometimes depending on you know when you're you're
10 11 down you couple in vacations the flu bug ran around a couple times this winter like most apartments uh you know and different other things going on so you know that 11 or 12 short you know turns into 1450 in a day out of
a 60 person department underneath me so yes I can understand they they come to work to want to do the job that they bid on and they want to do for their career but um water sewer and and solid waste are all health and safety for the communities it's not like you can skip
track a disaster out there so but I'm very proud of everybody they hung in there we had some we had some tough times but uh I can't say enough about my staff it's a tough They make me go i agree
it's a tough job especially in the winter and all that stuff going on so you got to get Thank Yeah you got a guy that's on the treatment crew treats throughout comes in and plows he's been there 18 hours and it happens all the time and then we get a water man break and he works in the water department i
think I was here 27 28 35 hours and um no exaggeration we have five or 10 people that that happens to every winter you know sewer emergencies you know we're on call 24/7 for all that all those things so I have a question about
the picking of the transfer station um but did you already ask this question um h that the expenses dropped substantially last year to ask that
wasn't sleeping so Milo maybe it's just the way uh maybe it just came out printed so um I'm seeing in some of these places I'm presuming that when you see some positions and you've got the hours per week and it will say like a third of a
full-time employee is because it's also third is being paid by water sewer is that how that's working kind of like the capital right yeah yeah it's like the roadside the roadside right like engineering's a good example they they work on water and in general right all
the time uh supervisors may may supervise the water distribution division and the highway division so they're split 5050 from general budget and the in the water budget and that moves a little bit each year as
supervisors move around or we promote whatever like there's a major shift this year uh he had to fill two positions so the budget shifts quite a bit um I think there's only one position that's 50/50 but we have a probably six seven of them
that are one-third so that was what I was going to ask because I'm seeing in the highway division there's the assistant field superintendent um and it says at the half time but it says it's only 10 hours a week 40 even though it's half time i can't
imagine that that's the salary of it that's got to be that's a misprint that should be 375 yeah it's an S SSEA position is that the same assistant field superintendent that's park um so or is that their position
titles or assistant field super right we have one assistant field superintendent overseeing water distribution and parks forestry we have another assistant field superintendent that oversees the sewer collections in the yard and highway traffic okay that
makes sense yeah there's the same titles yeah and so this also just just to say this is uh this budget is reflecting what full staff with like the six folks that you say are are under staffed right
now six positions that are on staff right now this would include those okay i mean when I build the budget in this business all of them I count for every position in the department and I'll write open okay say open and be this doesn't say open here it just gives me
your position so sure so this sheet here that I start I do the salaries first and then the the CBA stuff in my budgets because it's easiest and researching all the materials and supplies so um a lot's changed since I just started developing the salaries i
tried to change them as I went as we gained staff but um yes it's it's a fully reflected um budget for 61 personnel inclusion okay so how it actually turns out depend on who you hire yeah and uh knowing what we know
about CDLs um I cannot hire or I cannot bring anybody aboard they will not come aboard for step A on the on the chart it's just I mean on the pay scale just doesn't happen so I account them at least midway in the scale it's the only way we're bringing drivers in right now
um and that reminds me there is a major bump in the tuition lines um we kind of we're so short staffed we kind of put aside our in-house approved training program so I would just been it's been much simpler with short staffing to hire
somebody and send them to the driving school it's a straight week and then they go test for their CDL um it's 3750 per staff member so uh that's worked out quite well we've had quite a few um
drivers get their licenses to quickly we just couldn't get through the training we didn't have enough staff so we had to kind of put that program aside we're still approved but Right so do you think you'll go back to it eventually uh I think only if I was fully staffed i mean really at the end of the day the amount
that goes into and what's required through through the the federal level to be certified there's a lot of uh training time for a supervisor to take that on so a lot of requirements that you have
to hit milestones and what are the if you could say what the projection because we know it's not going down um what the projection think the um
sewer water rates will have to go up this coming year uh well I'll be I'll be working on that no I think I think it's a very good question because everything we do in water and sewer with our infrastructure
we know it's old we're improving it um again there's collective bargaining agreements um those licenses are really hard to get they take up to five years to be accepted in the staffing plan through D and EPA water wastewater um
and again the what I call the unfunded mandates just keep skyrocketing uh you know if you look at my what the lab testing the chemicals and the supplies you look at the chemicals for drinking water um those are the big ones i'm hoping we get some relief we should see
some relief in the sewer budget uh sludge is going to be close to 900,000 this year and I get that number after the budgets are voted um but the deatering project is in progress and it's due to be completed it's waiting on electrical parts like everyone else
switch gear um the due date for that project to be completed is in January or February 26 the pancake compressor thing right yeah makes the cake not the edible you know I if you want I'll give a quick
explanation but that that's probably going to cut that 900 800 900,000 not to be quoted i got to look at it again but all said and done hauling one load of cake under contract as opposed to five 9,000galon loads that's mostly water to
low right now or may get rid of water the sludge can't be too thick because it'll ruin the headworks and the gear in low or any plant that will it's too thick so we're expecting that number to at least get cut in half nice from the original project when it was going to be
an anorobic digesttor back in the day so um cool see there's there's money to be saved even when it comes to it cost a lot of money to get rid
of oh god that thought the bottom down to the plant okay sorry about that um it's quite the process beat our regulations oh it's it's good it's good that you know to put
almost turn on route into the Green River once it goes through that plant it's pretty impressive that it takes a lot to get that small question sure on um the waste collection for it says waste recycled
compost material sure i'm on 154 waste recycle compost material and then materials composting and just was curious what those meant uh waste recycle uh compost material the
2000 let me look because I have a few of them that pay for different things uh waste recycle compost material uh supplies stretch wrap uh for CRT storage boxes decals we have to label everything
up there you know like the waste oil and whatnot everything has its its place so um it's basically materials to handle uh what we recycle up there interfer sheds sure you've been up there but um it was just there today yeah yeah and uh we go
through a lot of stickers a lot of shrink wrap and the whole nine yards with the CRTs meaning TVs and paper screens and all that yeah and um in general would love if the budget or just in general if the city
can be prioritizing composting because it makes up like organics make up half the waist stream um and contributes to methane which is a potent greenhouse gas more increases climate emissions more than
carbon dioxide um so and it could come from grant funding too so it doesn't need to be in this but yeah just wanted to put a little pitch for thinking about municipal composting well I I'd be lying if it hasn't been on our radar it it you know stuff like that there's
always something coming down the pipe that we want to look into or we want to try and support um just not there at this point get fully staffed and I agree about cycling under I won't say what I thought it was
but I used to hear things i used to hear it last year sometimes when I was here so yeah we um there anything else i have no questions
i have answers doug isn't here does anyone have So M is on 103 thank you Marlo right um if anything comes up any other questions please don't hesitate to email me or give me a call okay
thank you so much thank you for your time thanks Paul thanks it's uh I said this before it's my favorite time of year with a lot of work that goes down all the staff and myself so it's kind of like super service
but once you get through it then get the French thank you thank you right there you go um so central maintenance is next
uh if anybody has questions regarding that i don't see Pug's on there so yeah I'm assuming I no presentation but actually if we if we have questions regarding this we can
always email them in as well in fact do we know is this returning to what the department was before like it was used to be split apart right and then it was part of DPW and then it was now it's split apart so they're own
they're own animal mhm y but they've gotten uh can't ask about the traffic light anymore get off the hook they've gotten um their own AC guy hvac guy right hired
on a HVAC guy huge yeah yeah i think it's here somewhere i just don't know if they had hired someone i don't know that the position's filled i know it's it's budgeted but I don't know hey Jenny do you know do you
know did did he actually hire an HVAC guy this year it was not still an open position no I actually um I think we're putting in for the next year we're looking
at position Hback we've done so many things up at the police station here we had somebody with general contractor license um would even be more
beneficial than that has been things like that many things like whatever you call it collapsed here the sewer backup what do you call that the tra the
either um any essential maintenance for those things because that uh position was not built so we essentially that or like move that over to like a contracted service more or less because there wasn't somebody to handle it in house
hback I mean yeah right some of it some of it they sent out to um yeah contraction services some of it and um I think um I think Chris Phelps was trying to learn some of the things like
which filters everything yeah some of it you need a license for though i mean some of that yes start working with Bon and Right so is the plan like essentially that we would by having somebody with like a
a like a CSL they'd be able to do some more other tasks like you were saying and then so we would end up continue well we'd obviously continuing to contract out HVAC services and not require them to have an HVAC
license yeah right okay but there's just so many things that you need like engineering had somebody that designed things right
would be nice we had somebody contract you mean you have to pull permits you ask for your license i know you do just ask just go [Laughter]
all right well if there's no other questions about central maintenance if you have any others feel free to email them in and maintain It's like gold i imagine
wouldn't know anything about that [Laughter] just call me um so yeah so our next meeting is going to be April 23rd which is next Wednesday here
6:30 and hybrid unless otherwise posted and that point we will go over the other city departments including that's treasure collector retirement rec why is it recreation parks it's always parks and w come on um planning licensing
library liberty uh IT human resources health energy council on aging community and economic development city clerk buildings inspections and assessors I won't call you small departments and neither should they this year um set and public safety um with that I
would take a motion to adjurnn jeez that took so long to be all right all those in favor i I journ tonight at 8:54 [Music]