Hello everybody. Thank you for joining us. This is a hybrid meeting. Should any techn technical interruption to the meeting occur and the Zoom portion of the meeting is suddenly ended, it will not be resumed and all items will be automatically continued to the next scheduled meeting date. This meeting is being recorded by the
Conservation Commission. If any other persons present are doing the same, you must notify the chairperson at this time. Uh we will call to order this meeting of the Greenfield Conservation Commission at 6:31 p.m. January 27th, 2026. A roll call of members and we have
everybody in the house tonight. Starting at the end, >> uh Emily Boss here, Erica >> here, here. >> Travis >> here. >> Uh Elizabeth Garafalo, I am here. And our conservation agent is also here this evening.
The first item of business on our agenda is the approval of meeting minutes from the January 13, 2026 uh conservation commission meeting. Do >> I move to approve the minutes? >> A second with the whatever changes Jessica made.
>> Okay. Changes made to the minutes. >> Uh >> are they already made? >> Yeah. Um there was a couple comments and I updated the minutes. >> Okay. Any other questions, concerns, comments? No. All right. A vote to
approve the minutes starting with Emily. >> I. Erica. >> I. >> Travis. >> I. >> I am also an I. The meeting minutes have been approved and will be available uh to the public on our website on the next business day following this meeting. Okay.
>> Hold on. Visible. >> Are we actually visible >> screen? Are we are we actually visible online? We are visible online and it's yeah I don't know it should
it should be good. Hey Patty if you uh can see us online can you just give us a thumbs up. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Okay. So the first order of business this evening is the Griswald
Conservation Area. Emily Boss and Patty O'Neal visited Griswald Conservation Area with foresters with Bay State Foresters Lincoln Fish and Toby Carter. They are present tonight to share their knowledge and insights for a discussion on managing the conservation area. We have allocated 25 minutes for this
discussion. >> I'm just trying to get online so I can join the Zoom call so I can give the slides. So, um, Lincoln and Toby, are you there? >> I am. I'm Toby. Hi, how's it going
>> everybody? Uh, good, thanks. How are you? >> Good. You want to just introduce yourself while uh I'm getting the slides up? >> Absolutely. Yeah, so I'm a a consulting forester with Bay State Forestry Service. Um my uh mentor Lincoln, I
don't see him on the call yet, but um he has been the forester um involved with the Griswall GTD property for over uh 40 years. Um so he is uh extremely
knowledgeable about property and has um done uh he's poured a lot of of energy and passion into it and um I am uh catching up learning uh from the records that he has uh passed off to me. um and
am here and open to uh however you want to uh direct the the conversation about it. >> Thanks a lot, Toby. And Patty, you're there here too. Do you want to just talk about how you came to go on the site
visit in November with us and and uh your connection with the town and interest? >> Yeah. Hello, I'm Patty O'Neal. Um, I am a community member of the open space task force. Um, I'm also a Greenfield
resident and a practitioner of ecological land care with my own business. And I came along on this walk um to Griswald to think about community engagement and see and hear uh about the
work that's been done here from the foresters who've been um managing it all this time. and we had a really great discussion >> and I found Lincoln. Um he is Hi Lincoln. Um he's over on the
um link that is from the calendar. So um I'm going to tell him what is there must be a different link. >> Yeah, I just went to the the town calendar and clicked on that link and um I see Lincoln there. So,
>> what [laughter] one moment? >> Turn my my microphone off. >> I have uh run into that issue before. >> It's Emily >> and I uh >> Yes. Hi. >> Hi. We have a a strange issue where
there's a different link that's being used for the commission than is on the calendar. >> Okay. >> So, >> should I go back to my uh email? Yeah, open up that agenda and that will um there should be a direct link that'll
pull you in. Toby and Patty are on there and I'm desperately trying to get on there too, but it's good that I didn't because I I found you. [laughter] >> Okay. Well, >> then I will leave this meeting. >> Yes.
>> All right. See you in a minute. CNN 6. Um, I have seen this issue before where um, there were a couple times I think when Mitch was the agent and the link looked like the same link, but in the agenda it was actually a hyperlink that
was different than what it looked like. So, it was linking to a different meeting. >> Oh, you mean like the embedded hyperlink was different than the words >> than the words that it looked like? >> I'll double check that. I thought I worked out all the kinks on this.
>> I know it it happened. I um I started always when we were remote only, I started joining always from the city calendar just to make sure it was the same. >> But now that we're not doing it remotely, I'm not doing this.
>> Okay. >> It's not just you. It's happened before. [laughter] >> I didn't even know that on occasions will give you some And I'm just still trying to find the email with the agenda, so I apologize,
but it all works out in the end. Is Lincoln there now? >> Will you just double check with link like if what exactly he clicked just so that I can do my >> He also went to the calendar. >> The the calendar. >> Yeah. Or at least we can. I I think that
that's what he did. Okay, this appears to >> Okay, I just pinged to that latest email, Emily. >> Yeah, I'm trying to find the email and I
cannot I don't know why. >> Yeah, I'm really confused by that. Yeah, Jessica, could you just send me the agenda again? I'm so sorry. >> Oh, yeah, sure. Sure. Um,
>> oh, it didn't agenda wasn't sent to Emily. >> Well, cuz I had already sent it to her like separately. >> Yeah, >> I got it a few days ago and passed it along to the other. >> I just was trying not to like burden her. [laughter] Here it is again. Um, let me Let's see
for >> and I'm searching but for some reason I stuck it in the wrong folder. So now I'm not seeing it. >> Okay, I'm sending it now. >> It's on its way. The exciting technical issues of hybrid
meetings. This is going to make for great YouTube watching later. [laughter] Someone watching this on YouTube. >> Hey, >> get your popcorn. >> We should say skip ahead to [laughter] I'm still at a loss. Emily, did it show up?
>> Not yet. >> Really? >> Not yet. >> If you go into it seems to be here. >> If you go into the G G drive um and go to like today's meeting and go to Griswald, I save the presentation in there.
>> Okay. >> If that does that help? >> I just need the No, I don't need the presentation. I just need the link to get online. That's all I need. >> That's in the Did you Did you drive too? >> Oh, okay. The agenda. All right. I'll go there. >> While we're waiting, uh, uh, I would
just like to mention the announcement that was skipped over earlier that there we're currently we have a vacancy on the conservation commission. So if anyone is interested uh do that at all future >> feel free to reach out to the
conservation agent for more information. >> Sorry I should have pointed that out. >> No no not at all. >> All right so I should mute this right. >> Yeah. There we go. >> Thank you. Sorry for all that. And now
let me share screen. >> And start. >> All right. Hi there, everybody. Um, can you see the presentation now and hear me? Okay.
>> Thumbs up. Great. Excellent. All right. Hi, Lincoln. So glad to have you here. Awesome. Um, look like we got a few other folks. Yay. >> And let me go back to the beginning of the presentation.
>> There we go. So, um, as Toby said before, Lincoln and Toby and Pia and I'm sorry, and, um, uh, Patty and I went out November 22nd, so that's last year. It seems like a really
long time ago. There was no snow on the ground. You won't recognize the land from these pictures if you've been out there lately. Um, and this picture here, um, I thought was sort of a, you know, just sort of a a a picture that really represented a lot of the interesting
things that we saw. You can see really beautiful young trees growing up to the light. It's one of the openings that Lincoln had made in one of the um, the management um, uh, windows. And there's a stump there you can see, and then there's all these trees coming up around
it. And you can see these big mature trees surrounding the opening that was made. Um so we'll talk about what all this means. And um moving on. Um we had sort of a momentous moment there. Uh
Lincoln who Lincoln I hope you won't mind introducing yourself now. We Toby and and Patty already did before when I was fumbling around. Um, but Lincoln's been working with this property since the late 80s with it, helping the city of Greenfield with its management and
and planning thoughtfully for it and is in the process, a very long process of retiring. [clears throat] So here, that box that you see in his hands that he's passing along to Toby is the history of the management of this property. Many,
many plans and thoughts. So, um, Lincoln, you want to give us a few, um, thoughts about the land and your involvement and and a little bit introduction to yourself? >> Sure. I [clears throat] thank you. Um, yeah, I don't know where Toby is going
to put all these boxes. Uh, it it's a long process of retiring one property at a time. And, uh, um, so uh, I just empty out my file cabinets. They don't look any emptier yet, but um uh I'm working
on it. So, this um property I started working on in 1982 or 83 um and uh talked to the commission at at that time. Um
Jim Soaper, who was a service forester for uh what it was DEM then, now it's DCR. um uh contacted me and asked if I would look at the property and come up with a
proposal for working with it. And at the time um Bill Griswald, who donated had just donated the property to um the the city, uh lived right there. And so I worked with Bill and Jim Soaper and the
commission to uh get the the project started. And we had one sort of moderate harvest, moderates sized harvest on the south side of the property o that accessed it um near Bill's house there
um on a the right ofway that uh the property has beside the field uh and um and use the money to um uh develop a trail system uh to open it up for
crosscountry skiing And um that that was our our starting point. Um and later um through successive harvests expanded the trail system to the whole property and
put in that parking area that's at the north side where that picture took place of uh me handing the box to Toby. Uh that parking area didn't exist when we started and neither did the trail
system. Um, so anyway, I I don't want to go on and on. We have a limited amount of time to talk about this, so I'll consider my introduction done. >> Thanks, Lincoln. You can see here the kiosk that's still in place. I'm going
to talk about the um condition of some of the assets on the property, and that one seems like it's still in good condition. Um, but we might want to update the materials on it. The green sign dates to the COVID era. It says, you know, keep your space wear masks.
So, it's still lovely, but you know, there's things that we might want to think about. What do we want to communicate now about the land in the trail maps box? Apparently, it's it's it's very empty. [sighs] So, that's certainly on us. Uh, but we might want
to think about, you know, do we want to use that? Do we want to have something that's just visible? Do we want to have QR codes? You know, there's a lot of different ways we could update that and give people good information. And forgive the weird transitions on this. It's fancier. It's just sort of
came with the set. So, I'm not trying to be fancy and make people feel like whatever. But here's a there these are some nice maps of the property. The one on the left, it's in black and white. It shows the topography quite well. Um the
land is basically it's actually two properties. It's Grisswald and the Greenfield Tap and Die Conservation Area um that are just related to the source of the land and when and how they came into the the city's possession and the stewardship of the conservation
commission. Um and Lincoln is the larger area the um Grisswald area or the smaller area? the smaller area, it's about 80 acres and the uh the GTD um
part which is on the north side of the property is about 120 acres, give or take a couple acres. >> Do you guys see my um um uh cursor or do you not see a cursor floating around? >> Yes.
>> Okay, good. So, all right. So this then is the Grisswald here to the south and then the wraparound is the GTD. And you'll see that there's three ways to access the land. Um two of which are these narrow sort of rightway area or
not a right ofways but just you know a little alley and then this area up here is where the parking area that Lincoln talked about was that's on the the area that has a longer frontage on Lamplack Road. And uh let's keep going.
So this is a map from the 2021 um forest management plan I believe and um it shows the same information but with a different orientation. This is just left to right and um with north sort of to
the the right of the page rather than to the top. Um, but this is a nice map because it shows um the location of invasive plants. It also shows um uh some wetland areas. Um and it's sort of
a working map that's been used as there's been active management on the land. Um there's another map that um Toby sent me just today that shows where activities have done and I'll pull that up later. I didn't have time to throw it into the the the um slides though.
All right. And then this is another element that's unique about the property. The Griswald fund is part of the ownership. it was sort of structured into the creation of the the property um as an ownership by the the town the city
um so that any money that is raised through timber management or [clears throat] other sources on the property I presume it can go directly to this Griswald fund we we actually looked over our different accounts at the last meeting so we saw that amount um and
there's two there's a GTD and a Griswald so I guess it's related to what activities are done in those two areas is um but rather than going into the general fund and being requested back, they just circulate back. And that's part of the reason why we were presumably in the past able to make that
beautiful the parking area and the trails because the funding can come directly there. And I just want to call your attention to this picture. Beautiful um mature oaks um hemlocks, pines. It's a really lovely property
there that we get to enjoy. So, here's the the parking area. Um, there is some area that maybe needs a little bit of love and care. There's some muddy areas over to the left. The parking happens on the right mostly, but
it's still quite clear. Um, it is maintained by DPW. It's plowed by them and um, it was it's been there since the property was donated in ' 83. Um, and then you can see one of the the markers
for the interpretive sign trail sign. I know that Travis and others have done and probably Erica as well have been out there, taken a look, done some inventories on what needs to be done. I don't have that kind of a detailed survey, but we just did sort of a broadbased look and then took some
pictures and then thought more about the the actually the the forests and what their conditions in. Um, but that said, the interpretive trails are there and the signage is there and we probably just need to look at what the information was that was made 20, 30
years ago and think about what we want to talk about now and then reattach that to the the um right now there's these nice, you know, handouts that people can take and walk around with. That sounds so 20th century at this point. Um, we
certainly could, you know, do a variety of things to connect that. um digitally. >> I do like having that though. >> It's good to have both. >> Yeah. >> And it's great to have both. >> Um Lincoln, I was hoping you might talk about um this area where the native
plantings are. Um there's hazel shrubs that are pointed out there. Um and there's a beach plum tree and I took a picture of one of the signs that gives some information about it. But do you want to talk about the you know when that was done and and what the goals
were? Yeah, it was uh um we started that in the early 90s. Um and uh we got a a grant through um uh DCR, their municipal
grant program. Um and uh the idea behind it is to have plants, native plants that can be used um around people's yards, in their
landscaping and in their woods. um as an alternative to at at least at the time uh everybody was kind of mindlessly using uh nursery stock that was uh like
burning bush and uh uh the invasive honeysuckles and things like that around their yard because it's easy to grow. Uh no insects will eat it because it's exotic and so it's not really part of the eco ecosystem. So we wanted uh to
show an alternative uh that you could use things like beach plum and uh jokeberry and uh dog woods and viburnums and things like that. So there's uh a dozen or so uh plants that were identified by signs like that. Some of
them have been u um the signs have been destroyed or taken or or have been switched around so that the wrong sign is in front of the wrong plant. So it needs to be u updated and maintained.
>> This is an area that it seemed we were looking at it. There's a lot of those plants that have survived but they're kind of hidden or just kind of merged into the area. So, it'd be really nice to do some maintenance here, resignage, and then maybe um you know, some weeding and and to help people get a sense of
what's there. This is right next to the landing, too, the the parking area. All right. So, then we took a our a hike along the trails. Um there's a meadow area on the uh Griswalt property that's right next to
the trail um that adjoins to some neighboring property. So presently it's hayed by that neighboring farm. And so some questions came up. I know that there's been a transfer um of ownership of some property in that area. Is it
that farm or a different farm nearby? And then >> yes, >> what is our agreement? Oh, sorry, Lincoln. I'll just say one more thing. Um, with them, it's I think it's just a handshake agreement. So, we probably want to make sure we understand who are we in touch with and who's doing that
work. You know, would the next person want to continue it? And if they do, or if they don't, there's opportunities there for us to have the timing support bird habitat or to be more oriented towards me and pollinators. So Lincoln,
do you know what this the status is of that land? >> Yeah, it the agreement goes way back to when Bill Griswald um was around and and part of the commission and uh the neighbor was Dick Parks and uh he just
died um within the last year I believe. So um I don't know what the stat status of his place is. Uh I haven't seen him in a few years. Um but he he moeded
every year and he had the uh small herd of uh cattle there that's uh just to the south of that field along Lamp Black Road. So it it um I think in in order to
um keep that field open like it has been uh you'd need to engage with another farmer um either that or or um engage somebody to brush hog it which would be an annual expense. Uh the nice thing
about the agreement with Dick Parks was it didn't cost the the town anything and he kept that open which it it makes it a much more interesting property to have some open fields and then next to
densely forested areas >> and it was helping to support this neighborhood farm as well. >> Yes. >> Is the field the field is is part of the pro our >> correctation property. >> Yep. So there might need to be some sort of clarification about what can be done
with it. >> Yeah. If if a farmer it was great that he was hanging on it, but I'm not sure we want >> somebody to come in. >> No, what we're talking about is maybe us deciding to do something else like maybe we want it to be meadow habitat or
whatever the hanging is, you know, just make sure that it doesn't interrupt um birds in nesting there or something like that. I I think the real danger over the next couple of years is that um it would get taken over by multifllora rose and
bittersweet. Uh I think that's what's going to happen if um there isn't some plan in place to to deal with that. Do we know if the um if Dick's Dick Park's property is staying in the family
and they still plan to >> I saw for sale signs, so I don't think so. Um >> Okay. >> We probably could ask the folks at Baskam Hollow Farm. I think they have worked with Dick in the past and
probably would know what's going on. >> Um there's a bridge here. the the channel was completely dry, which was strange for that time of year, but that that bridge seemed like it was in reasonable shape. Nearby along the trail, there's a pretty large wetlands area. Um, one thing that
we probably want to take it um into account is that the trail turns a very hard turn to the left according to our established trails, but there's use that goes right through the wetlands. So, there's probably need for some kind of
signage or a rock or something that can just discourage people from continuing to walk through the wetlands. But, you know, it was a dry year. It might be the changes in, you know, the rain has made that happen. And,
um, let's see. This is just an example of uh other areas where the signage is still in place. And um there's numbers at each of these signposts. And then you can see in the distance there are these little numbers. Those are specimen trees
so people can see what a a mature oak looks like or an ash, that kind of thing. Um these were really great, but again, we would just want to check in and maybe update what what the information is. There's been a lot of new um like the emerald ashbor is probably new um and probably doesn't
talk about that. So those are some good opportunities. Chestnut. Exactly. And um some of the signage is in the wrong place. Look at this one. It's just stuck in the middle of the woods. [laughter] It's nice that it's still there. We can use it, but it isn't doing anything and
you can't read it from the trail. >> Um can I just add on to that about some signage being in the wrong place? Is I know that there are signs along the trail that say like Griswald boundary or something like that. >> Oh, along the trail. Yeah, along the
trail like so that you know that you're on that property, but it doesn't make sense that it's a boundary marker on the trail. So, >> um I think some of those we might want to take out and >> replace >> move to the boundary or replace with some other kind of sign. Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Also, was that a sign about a tree or >> It was It's a It's a sign about one of the native plantings or a native species that are there and it's just randomly stuck in the middle of any >> Yeah. Somebody pulled it up and walked out in the woods and, you know, just for
fun to to annoy us. [laughter] >> Well, I know that I know that there were some signs talking about the I think the owl house that has fallen down and the the the log >> the drumming log >> that I think has disintegrated. And so some of the things have just
>> this is this is all just evidence of how a forest is a dynamic place. It's changing all the time. >> Another drumming log. Exactly. >> Put the sign there. >> So, um, all right. And then this is some pictures from the area where there was
invasives removal. This is actually up on the north side of the property, I believe, nearest the highway. And I encourage everybody to go out. Erica, I think you mentioned that you went to a workshop um maybe when the chestnuts were planted or or remembered >> little hike after
>> um and there that the bottom left picture there that is a mature well it is a a adolescent chestnut tree. It is doing well. It looks beautiful. It was planted um Lincoln said that there were two chestnuts that were planted at that
time. We didn't see evidence of the other one sadly, >> but this one's beautiful. You can see nuts here. Actually, I don't know if you can see it, my fellow commissioners, but people online can probably see the bristly um outer coverings of chestnut.
And um and then there's this really beautiful, lovely little oak. There's lots of little oaks that are coming up that have evaded being eaten by deer, which is one of the things that happens to them a lot. So these plantings were successful and it would behoove us to
you know go in with the part of the reason why we did this walk now is because the management plan um that was done in the past actually it was 10 years ago so it wouldn't have been 2021 it would have been earlier because it's >> 2016 yes
>> it was 2016 so it's expiring this year um we are eligible I just had a discussion today with the DCR staff that uh oversees the grants that such as what um Link was talking about. I'm sorry I'm running way over time. Um but they they
did say that espec you know our plan is expiring but they can work with us because what the upshot of all of this is that I'd love to take some of the information and the themes here to do workshops and walks and we could get that funded through the grant program.
So let's keep going. Um, here's a nice vista site that runs along the ridge, but it's kind of grown in a bit. There was more of a view before. So, again, this is another area that we might want to think about what we want to talk about at this site.
Um, there's a lot of white oaks here. Um, and this is part of Lincoln. Do you want to talk just a little bit about some of the management strategies you used to encourage oaks to regenerate and to do well? We talked about it a lot on the walk and I want to make sure we
really capture that um that goal and that activity. >> Yeah. I think the the main thing is to try to foster the growth of uh big oaks with spreading crowns that will make
lots of acorns. And uh everybody wants to eat acorns uh out in the woods and so it's hard for them to survive and grow into a new tree. So we need to have many many of them. Um white oak is uh an
especially uh uh desirable acorn because it's not as bitter as the red oak acorn. So wildlife really likes it. and we're near the the northern edge of White Oak's range and we have a magnificent
stand of white oak on the property. Um and uh and then a couple of really giant ones that uh grew up when the property was open pasture. So, uh just making some clearings that just individual tree
thinningings don't get enough light to the forest floor to um regenerate oak. They quickly get shaded out. But a larger openings that um anywhere from uh
oh 50 ft across to 100 ft across there there is enough light. So, we do have some areas that uh have some oak regeneration and um I I think because they get chewed by deer quite a bit um
sometimes they lose the competition to the birch trees and other trees. So it it would behoove us, I think, to go in and um and do a little bit of uh uh judicious pruning and weeding around those those oaks to to make sure at
least some of them make it to the next generation. Um so I I could go I I'd be happy to drone on and on about oaks. It's one of my favorite topics, but I'll spare you that. I think that's that's probably enough.
>> We'll circle back around to that. But thank you Um some other elements that just to make sense of them um are that you'll see these logs on the ground just lying next to the trail and they are actually markers of where the the the the um
harvesting trails were. So when Lincoln has worked on this property he's been very careful to have a difference between the recreational trails and the access roads. The access roads are really meant to be temporary. You put them in, you cut a few trees to make
sure that there's a way for the machinery to get in there to cut the trees down and then it grows back in. So, it it leaves and then it comes back into the forest. Whereas the recreational trails are permanent. You know, they're going to have a lot of traffic over time. They're more um uh
you know, compacted. Um you you may be adding things there. So, that's a difference in management. So you're by minimizing how much area is in the trail system, then you're having minimum uh
change to the soil. And also people aren't going to get upset. You know, if maybe once in a while you you come in and you're doing something that is needed for maintenance or to do something for the health of the trees, you have these skid and access trails that just cross occasionally across the
recreational trails, but they don't disrupt what people are are enjoying and are um invested in along the recreational trails. So, when you walk along and you see those logs on the ground, that's probably a sign of where there's an access trail that was there
once. and it would be a good site again in the future if there if there's any active um uh equipment coming in. >> All right, so here's a beautiful big chest leaf right there on the ground. >> Um we wanted to talk a little bit about
some ideas that came up. Patty particularly had some really wonderful thoughts. Um that this property is one that is well used by the community. It's one that's been actively tended and maintained for certain species and also for a variety of species. It's got a
very diverse um uh forest and it has a lot of activity by animals. So um the next section we're going to talk about a some different opportunities. We're not saying any of these things are what have to happen. And our goal really in moving towards this next management plan is
just to present as many different perspectives and um possibilities because it's kind of a unique property because of its its history. >> Yeah. So with the um I'll be going over this part. the community land tending
activities um could be another possible um way to support community engagement. And um we discussed this as a possible management strategy as we observed the regenerating stands at Bay Street
forestry cut um uh for both forest health and harvesting previously. Um, we noticed here that some of the trees that were regenerating, um, the pine and oak specifically, were being outcompeted by the black birch, um, especially with the deer pressure. And we thought that maybe
continuing the intention um of managing these stands for a diversity of tree species, ages, and sizes would promote structurally diverse and prime pollinator habitat, food, forage, and nesting for wildlife, increased net and berry production, and many potential
uses for the community. Next slide, please. So the brambles were a common herbaceous species to show up in the new clearings and occasionally these areas um are brush hoged to keep them predominantly
basious and please correct me if I'm wrong with any of this Lincoln and Toby um feel free to add too >> I think it was every 10 years or something it's not very frequent >> okay
um so one idea we discussed was possibly um cutting them more often to shape the kind of plant communities that were possible here um with a low impact tool like a sythe um and also that more frequent trimming would promote flowering and fruing. And so this could
be possibly an opportunity for workshops to get people involved with how to tend wild brambles um and how to um kind of get to know managing um this native plant ecosystem
um for different uh plant types for different uses and and also um wildlife habitat. Anything else anyone would like to add here? >> I I think those bramble communities are
just great for wildlife. There's there's really nothing better for certain species of early successional habitat and there's lots of food, lots of insects for birds to eat and and things like that. Um they're ephemeral though.
they last maybe 10 years and and then they get shaded out by the young birch trees and and other things growing up. So I think that's a great idea. I think the the limiting factor is always money. um how much uh does it cost to do that
sort of u intensive labor? And um if you can end up getting um something out of it uh that those small tree uh saplings that you're cutting can produce um like
in compassing for uh who knows uh brush fences or or any anything that you could use saplings for would be wonderful because that would uh maybe pay their own way out of the woods uh in a sense. so that you could keep those communities
um young and and you know renew them by cutting them often. >> I'll go on to the next slide. >> Speaking of copasing >> on the picture of Griswell, just so you know, this is an example from the UK.
>> Yeah. So yeah, another big idea we talked about was uh the ancient uh civil culture practice of croping, which uh is how communities throughout history and around the world used to regularly take part in managing their forest um by
taking advantage of the trees um many trees amazing ability to respout vigorously after um cutting the tree down um to the stump during their dormant period. Um, and this is also something that could happen after a
fire, especially prescribed fires, managed fires. Um, and a lot of the uses could include things like uh growing your own firewood and polewood for building copus. That's
standard. That's mixing um these cppus trees with the larger lumber trees. Um livestock fodder. um bigger flowers with berries and nuts, biochar and charcoal,
mushroom growing, and the list really goes on. Um and I think this is pretty in line and similar with how um Bay State has been managing these stands in different cycles over long periods of
time. Um, and copassing can be done in cycles ranging from 1 to 40 years depending on the species and the management goals. And it's not been a coping hasn't been a big part at all of modern forestry because there hasn't
just there's not really a market anymore for these all of these uses. but it's finding renewed interest as a strategy for transitioning to a more sustainable and resilient local economy with all the uses that are possible from copest
woods. So I feel like as Lincoln you were mentioning like this could present like a lot of different opportunities um for help with managing these forests and tending them um with a lot of uses
that will be worth people's time um and also reconnecting them. I'll go more on to that in a minute. one of our members on the tree committee um she's moved recently but their property had a little um like woven
wooden fence along the property edge and it looked really beautiful and this size of tree would be perfect for that kind of project small things or furniture. There's a lot of different uses. Yeah, I think this could even maybe um supply I wonder um with any of the uses that
might be needed in the in the conservation area like Yeah. any fencing or maybe boardwalk materials. I don't know. >> Um using the wood right from where you're at. >> Exactly. Yeah. It doesn't have to go too
far. Something to explore. >> Yeah. I love those ideas. I think the uh the fences and the biochar I think that has a lot of possibility. Um I I think that the one of the problems is uh like
in supply and demand there's not too much value in the stuff that you copus because there's so much of it available. um you go you can find uh around any field edge um small
diameter wood like that and and so to interest somebody who can use it um would be the challenge here and it would be wonderful to get you know a group of volunteers or somebody interested in building those fences or biochar or
something like that but I think I think that'll be the challenge because to interest them and attract ract them to this property saying, "Hey, we have something here for you." >> Mhm. >> Yeah. I was I was speaking to somebody
um nearby about um uses for polewood and and his interest in potentially like what a market for that would be like. Um and I I got a lot of responding interest um when I asked around um like there
were many uses like um stream bank restoration like using them for that. Maybe there would be interest in that. Community wood banks. >> Um also yurts. There's a couple companies around the valley that are building some really impressive yurts
like even familysized yurts that are pretty cool. Uh, so I I think there's there's a lot to uh to consider out there that could be pretty fun. >> I'll just tack on to the end of that that um what Patty mentioned kind of
that outer age range for copus material is, you know, several decades. And at that time, a lot of the species that would be sprouting like that in our forests would be getting to a commercial
uh firewood uh dimension and and height. and growing in that form are very tall and straight and and thrifty. And uh in a in many places in a in a more kind of managed forest setting that's not
easily accessible for the public to um come in and and utilize um polewood or smaller material. that can still produce a a substantial volume of uh firewood. >> Great discussion.
Should we go on to your next um slide? >> Yeah. >> Uh discussion. Um, >> so this is a pitch pine that we found um near the edge of the conservation area
uh next to the the solar uh field development. And um we thought that maybe um since this is an indicator species of unusual land um it's it's some it's a tree that grows
in the Monagu sand plains that maybe that would also indicate that management practices uh similar to those of the sand plains could be um something to consider here as well. um and that maybe
thinking about its possibility as a corridor um is another thing to consider. And also this edge that is close by the solar field is pretty it's a a very abrupt edge. So um potentially vulnerable to
wind throw. Um so doing something like managing younger forest around this edge could be helpful for that as well. We were on >> and at the minimum just being aware of the species that are there and the
potentials for the past habitat was there is really interesting because a lot of that's lost. Many of those habitat types have disappeared um either because they've been um fire has been suppressed. The the pitch pine habitat
is a fire renewed property uh type. So in areas where it can't be fire then other species grow in and others have been um developed and they've been built on um when we when I took a walk once um with led by Bill Patterson and other fire specialists
um in the Montagu plains they talked about how um it's a perfect place if it's dry and sandy to build on. So many of those sites are now cities or villages or communities instead. [clears throat] that whole um the backside of what was
the Grisswald piece where it joins with the uh GTD property uh is the top of a hill and uh it's has a bunch of pitch pine up there which is an indication that there was a fire there at one point
probably back in the 40s or 50s or something like that. And I wish I had asked uh Bill Griswald if he remembered, you know, burning off one of the hay fields, which was a common practice back then to control weeds if a fire got away
and ran through the woods and burnt on the top of the hill. I would I would suspect that's probably why that pitch pine is there. >> And our favorite invasives bittersweet. Um, yeah. So,
uh, one of the added benefits of, uh, the community tending the land is potentially more help staying on top of invasive plant management, um, and an increase in awareness. Uh the valley has
many people who are enthusiastic um in making food, medicinals and crafts out of invasive plants. Uh like making baskets out of bittersweet and paper out of notweed teas um tinctures and uh lots
of crafts people. Uh so we could potentially invite their collaboration and tending and um knowledge sharing of these skills that they have. um in our workshops >> and uh continuing the work of u planting and encouraging native plants. Um you
know, we could we could try and keep uh migrating the invasives out and the natives in native species in. Uh so all of these activities could potentially provide guidance and opportunities for the public to re-engage and reestablish thoughtful and
reciprocal relationships with the ecosystems they live in. Uh we can reconnect to our place in the in nature as humans and learn to work with our native plant communities in doing all of these uh productive things and beneficial things for the ecosystem. Um
this book is really great by Jared Rosenbone. wild plant culture um where he talks a lot about um people's place uh working um with their native plant communities. Uh so for more
information about that topic, I'd highly recommend this book. >> You can probably find it via our Greenfield Public Library. >> I hope so. Um, and of course, our own indigenous human communities have exemplified interdependent and reciprocal
relationships in our local context with their land-based cultures and land and cultural land management practices. >> This is a picture of Lincoln among amongst all those little trees. Also, uh the public input from the
Conway school students um work updating the land use and natural, historic, and cultural resources chapter of the sustainable Greenfield uh master plan uh related a desire to do more to respect and acknowledge both historical and
living indigenous people to this area. So this could potentially be an area to seek ways to collaborate um to support indigenous sovereignty and leadership in the establishment of these reciprocal relationships with the land. Um and no
loose braids uh as an example is a netmled organization that has worked with uh Mount Grace Land Trust and land owners to create a collaborative strategy called the Nusawit framework which I won't get into but uh
it's pretty inspiring about how they're kind of co-leading and their approach to managing uh land. So I'll just leave it there. There's a lot to a lot to explore. Thanks so much, Patty. >> Thanks for bringing all those great
ideas. It really was such a wonderfully wide-ranging discussion on the land, and I'm glad that we can just bring them to you, too. >> Yeah, me too. >> So, getting down to brass tax and some of these things I think you all will have seen. um
uh looking at the interpretive sign. Um you know, again, we've already talked about updating bringing to the 21st century our little our little trails. Um maybe making the decision about whether we're going to continue having paper trail maps and if so, just, you know, having a schedule for putting them out
there, figuring out how we'll pay to how they'll be printed and and reproduced. um developing new descriptions for the self-guided walk, putting that online. Um making sure that all the signs are in the right place and matched up. Um and then just think about there's COVID
signage safety. Maybe there's other information that's more important to be communicating. Um here's a lovely picture of some of the repair that's needed. This is on a very long um boardwalk that's probably in a wet area. It was pretty dry when we
were there, but there are boards that need to be replaced. Others that are fine, but um for safety, it's such a well-used property. We probably do need to be active and figure out, you know, there are are funds in the the Griswald
and the GTD funds, so maybe this would be a highest priority really for what we want to look at. Um and there, you know, there's some trees down over the trails. Um, we can talk to DPW about maybe making that way open again. Um,
mentioning again that neighboring farms since it's transition, we want to figure out what the future of that will be. Um, and also one portion of the trail is a right of way over their land. So, we need to again make sure that that's enshrined in whatever way that's going to be able to allow for people to uh
happily cross the neighboring property or if not, if they're going to be doing something different, then we need to um change the signage and change the trails and the maps. Um and then of course the the property, although there has been um extensive invasive removal, there's
still invasives present there. So, we just want to keep on top of that. And then for the forest management planning, um, as I said before, our plan expires in 2026. Um, we've got this wonderful history um with Bay State Forestry. Now, Tobi Toby is is willing
to take on that. But, um, we'll need to think about what the costs would be. And I think it'd be really wonderful if we can start with the community and start with thinking about what people are interested in seeing there. There's a lot of different ideas and um it's a
real opportunity for us to get people engaged. Um both the conservation commission and the open space task force and the sustainable green field. We have a lot of interest in expanding the um conservation and recreation
possibilities in the town. thinking about conserving farms and this is a real um model property for our engagement and our thoughtful management of it. Um one other element that we didn't talk about is there is an area not quite sure where it is Lincoln but
that's um a reserve or that's a set aside for no management no touch. Um maybe when I bring up the map again Lincoln I can ask you where that is and and make sure that I'm remembering that correctly. Um but some of the values that we can address with our our plan
would be biodiversity and climate threats. Um community land tending is a possibility with the many ideas that we brought to you. Um incorporating the forest into the pollinator and wildlife corridors. Um this is something that's
come up in our discussion of the um open space plan at the open space task force is thinking about the forests of the city as part of the pollinator um uh component of the the city and we could do that actively in the management plan
um and then also the trails for a variety of different uses. So these are some of the um ideas we had and I would be thrilled to work with whomever wants to to bring in some experts to do walks, you know, have the
foresters out there to talk about the history of the plan, um tree identification, wildlife habitat, trails, native plants and invasives, um forest health, wildlands and reserve, um pollinators in the forest, climate change, and and also I'd really like to
have the opportunity for people in the community to tell us what they want to know more about, tell us what's important to them, and we could shape whatever the opportunities are based on the people's interest. Um, and this is just a list to for our future reference of the types of
community tending activities that could be of interest on this property. releasing oak, harvesting birch poles, tending raspberries, pulling invasives, um focusing probably on manual control, copus with standard, firework and biochar, local lumber and building
products, inventory and biioblitz, which is an I naturalist app. Um incorporating forest into the pollinator plan, mushroom growing and beyond. And um this is a list of potential grants and funding that we can look into.
um office of EA has quite a few. DCR service forestry has the community forestry grant and there's a wildlife habitat management grant from um fish and wildlife or mass wildlife. >> Oops, wrong way. Here's the maps again. Lincoln, can you
can you remind us if is there an area that's no touch or that's set aside? It is not a um [clears throat] like formal uh mapped out set aside area, but rather um areas to contrast
with um forest openings or or where where active management is taking place where um we along the trail. It was really nice to have the contrast between open areas
and then deep shade where it was dark and cool and you know especially midsummer walking through there. So if you go up to the uh GTD property uh and
um you see as you go toward Route 91 there's an area where there's kind of a yeah right where your cursor is. If you from there uh from that um sharp turn that where the trail heads south,
instead of going south, go uh back toward the parking area. So from that turn back to the top of that uh hill, there's an area in there right along the trail where there's some real large
hemlocks and deep shade and uh along and then it grades into some big white oaks. And we purposely didn't do any cutting in that area through quite a lot of it in order to contrast um the management
with uh with an area that is uh where where there was no management and the shade was was very dark. also at the south end of the property between well there's that small field right at the base of the hill and then another small
field right in back of where the uh Griswald house was. Uh in that area there's some great big pines and hemlocks that are are quite you know past their prime in terms of how
vigorously they're growing. Uh and and we just have stayed out of there um in order to have you know some really big um trees and dense shade um along the trail. So, those are the two areas where
we've been um where we've purposely avoided doing any cutting. >> That's great. Thank you. And All right. And I will bring up that one other map that I mentioned that shows where the activity has been
done and then we'll wrap up and have an opportunity for questions from the commission and from um uh maybe for people who are listening. Thank you for this beautiful bunch of slides and and organizing it. It it
really helps uh uh this discussion to to have them. So, thank you um both for putting this together. >> It was a pleasure. It was really great. I want to just say Toby and Lincoln,
they they shared four hours of their day with us. So, little volunteer time there on their part and it was really just wonderful to be able to dip into all the stories and the the history. This is the management plan um or this is a vi sort
of a history here. Sure. >> Oh, I'm sorry. There we go. Stop share and share again. There we go. Now you can see it. Um, and Toby or Lincoln, if you want to just walk us through this a little bit, that'd be really great. And that'll be
the end, I promise. Except for the Q&A. >> Sure. I I can um uh describe where this came from is uh that box of files. I I scoured uh all the the uh iterations of
planning and um found the record of actual uh forest cutting plans that were uh filed to approve uh timber harvest on the property. And um I located most of the ones that uh have taken place in the
last 40 years. the the early 80s seems to have um I don't know wandered off in into the past but uh we could track that down with some some other effort and I I think this is a useful illustration of
um how different approaches can can look overlapped um when you also experience the forest and multiple dimensions as you're walking through. You look at the overlapping
activities here and and it in some in some ways it gives you the the idea that a lot of work has been done um across a large portion of the property and in some cases that that's true, but it's also that at different times different
harvesting techniques look very differently. So um in some cases these would have been you know small patch cuts to to produce the openings the small openings to regenerate the forest and in other places it's much more
diffuse. So um that is kind of the the the careful analysis that that goes into the stewardship plans that um Lincoln has has written for the property um uh in decades past. And um so yeah and this
isn't complete too. So there there's been additional work that uh would have been called you know non-commercial thinning to um tend some of those young forest patches to to release the oak
saplings and um not to mention the uh the effort to uh mitigate the impact of the invasive plants. So, um it's a neat visual representation and also a representation of the um
the volume as well as the uh the potential value that the the um periodic management can can generate for uh stewarding the property. So you can see that the the magenta
outline which is the largest area to the north and east well no north and west portion is the largest area and the largest volume and that was done shortly after the property was brought into ownership by the the city um and
probably had a you know maybe there was the biggest um invasives or wanting to bring back the oak. um the yellow smaller they're much much smaller and this sort of shows the what Toby's talking about the different styles of management or different types of
prescriptions. So there's smaller areas um and then they overlap with the red and the green. So that's where in some areas where you know you're going back to the same place maybe to make sure that that stays small trees or young trees or meadow for pollinators. Um
whereas other areas it's only been touched once and then it hasn't been returned to. >> Can I ask a clarifying question >> please? >> Um so MBF stands for something board >> thousand board feet.
>> Okay. And then CDS is courts >> correct? >> So the earlier 1987 and that is a large area almost 200,000 board feet. Mhm.
>> And almost 80 chords, whereas 93, it's like less than half. Just less than half. >> And they're much smaller. >> More cords, >> but more cords. >> So, it's like bigger trees. Bigger trees, maybe. >> Um, well, let's see. If it's more cords,
that's going to be smaller trees or poor form because they're not as straight and not and suitable for timber. quartz is usually firewood or it might be pulp as well. >> Oh, I see. I thought that was just like >> two units, but but it was like two
different products basically. >> Exactly. Yep. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Can you put that in the folder? >> Yeah, absolutely. I'll I'll say the slides are already in the folder. I'll put this in the folder. Um, and then and and then Lincoln, since you were involved in all these, are there
anything any lessons or or takeaways from the different time periods that maybe you know you can remember off the top of your head without having the box of of files in front of you? [laughter] >> Yeah, I think that um [clears throat] when we started um
it was a different forest. The trees were smaller. Um, and that that's an amazing thing that I've learned in after doing this for 45 years that trees actually grow. [snorts] And
when when I started there were almost none of those great big huge straight majestic trees that you know you get a crick in your neck looking at the top of. Um and and so
they they were also casting a lot of dense shade. We didn't have a lot of areas that were open with regeneration. And so the first entries there uh in the
early 80s were largely just thinningings. And um as a result of some of those thinningings, we got some patches of young pine or young oak. And some of the later um entries, you know,
in the the '9s and up to 2000 were to release from shade those patches of regeneration that we had gotten the first time. So, it's a in in many cases a progressive kind of thing where you
you start off with a thinning and then the second time you go in, it's because there's some young trees and you don't want them to get shaded out. So, you cut a concentric ring of trees around those patches of regeneration so that they can
keep growing and become part of the next generation of uh canopy. Um, so I think some sometimes the the harvests have different strategies and that's why their footprint looks so different.
Great. >> All right, let's open it up. Do any of the members of the commission have any questions or comments? We've overwhelmed you. It's too much information. I I think this uh map, the color-coded
map that's on the screen, it's fascinating to to look at and yeah, to hear, you know, the different management strategies each time around and what it yielded and, you know, I'd be curious what future management strategies would
look like on this. >> A big element that any future plan would be aware of is climate change, new threats. Um, you know, we certainly could get a a climate informed plan that looks at what species are most
vulnerable as the conditions change and give recommendations for how to protect them and create more biodiversity or um, store carbon, whatever is appropriate to this property. Um, as the person who made the current trail maps that we're using, um, I was
just thinking this would be good to, uh, digitize these polygons and have some, you know, GIS layers available that we can keep track of, uh, like the management that way as well. Um, instead of just having it on this map, too. So,
more more work to do in the future [laughter] there. >> That's great. And then I know we have several people in of the public. Um I want to invite uh if there's comments or questions. I know we don't have too much more. We've taken so much of you all
your time tonight, but um if that's appropriate uh raise your hand and our chair. Yeah, I'll stop sharing [laughter] over here. How's that? Okay. H Nancy, I see you're hiring your
hand up. I'm taking Jessica's seat right now, so I am currently acting as agent. [laughter] >> I just want to thank you for this fabulous presentation. Really great. I've been to the Griswell property a couple times, not a lot, and it's great
to get a idea of what the what the goals were as you over the years and how it's changed. And now I'm interested of course in going to look at it again. So thank you for making the presentation and thank you Lincoln for for managing
for so many years. >> Thank you Nancy. >> Thank you Nancy. Uh do we have any further questions or comments? Do we take one or two more brief questions or comments from the public? While we're waiting, I'll just add that
uh for Nancy or anyone else who wants to go out there, we might not have any trail maps uh out there right now, but if you go to the Conservation Commission's web page, we do have the maps on our web page that anyone can access and print out if you'd like. >> And that makes so much sense. Maybe we
just want to make sure people know that when they're out there. Okay, I don't see any more hands raised from the public. So, thank you everyone. Um, Patty, Toby, Link, um, Emily for doing all of that work. That was really
wonderful and I look forward to having the opportunity to implement some of your plans moving forward. >> Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Lincoln, Patty, and and Toby, for coming out or being out here again and um, for sharing all your insights.
Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I feel like we should uh make a plaque for Lincoln or something for [laughter] years of service. >> The uh the golden uh chainsaw or something. [laughter]
Maybe we can make some benches out of um wood from the property >> and uh put put uh >> you know >> take a seat courtesy of Lincoln Fish [laughter] long as they're comfortable. >> All right, thanks everybody. Uh we'll
move on to our next um item on our agenda which is the Canada Hill and inland discussion. Last spring, Emily Boss, Schlomaya Lightfoot, and the agent visited Canada Hill to discuss land and stewardship. Uh, Schlomaya is back tonight to revisit that conversation and
has additional questions for the commission. We've allocated 15 minutes for this particular item tonight. Emily or would you like >> I saw Schlamia there a moment ago. There you are. Yes, she's um coming online. Wonderful.
>> Yeah. Um am I audible? >> You are. >> Hi. >> Okay. Thanks. Um so, uh I don't know whether I should start saying things or Emily, did you want to frame this up? >> I'll frame it >> at all. >> So, boy, that was when Jessica, myself,
and Schlomia went out to Canada Hill in May, maybe. I don't know. >> Yeah, I think I wrote this >> September. Oh, it was the fall. >> Maybe it wasn't. >> Last year was just a shmear. I don't remember. >> It was a lovely day. Um, we had a nice
interesting interaction with the neighbors. So, we got to meet some of the people who actually watch out for this property, which was great. And, um, and then we walked around on the property. And I, um, made this connection. I had talked with Schlomia.
We had worked together on some grant applications through the state and various other partnerships and um we've talked about possible partnerships with the land trust and when Schlamia had mentioned to me what types of land were
of interest for the research that um she and her nonprofit are doing, I had just been to Canada Hill with Jessica not that long before to find try and try try and find bags of garbage. which luckily we didn't find. Um, but I had seen
evidence of exactly what she was describing. So, we went back out there and took a look together and had a really nice naturalist day. And so I want and it's been quite a while now but I thought tonight since we were talking about our forests and our conservation um I would invite Schmia to come and
listen to the talk about Griswald and then also to just maybe begin the conversation again about what um partnerships might be possible between inland and Greenfield. So maybe if you want to talk a little bit about the purposes of what your
research is um Schlamia and then talk about how Canada Hill met some of those criteria that'd be really helpful. >> Yeah, let me know if there's too much of a lag. I am also on here on phone because my internet has been awfully slow. So I can switch to that if that's
better. Um so yeah I so inland is the organization that I have been in the process of founding. It's the in inland assure for the indigenous landscape initiative and the idea and I'm I'm excited hopefully to get to talk with
Patty more about about that work. Um but the um the idea is to do community engaged um restoration and stewardship work on um partnering forward to work on
different pieces of land and um to restore land and steward land using indigenous practices of the region. working with local communities and um the >> both non-native and native communities
of the area. Um and among other things that uh Canada Hill has species compositions and condition where it's um has I think a lot of evidence of pretty
intensive indigenous stewardship in the past um which is really exciting to see some of the species a bunch of oak species including um white oaks and we found chestnuts a whole bunch of chestnuts patches of blueberries and other species
that were very much kind of central to the the species that indigenous stewardship or more intensive types of indigenous stewardship brought about for food and other purposes for people and
important for wildlife and safety and climate resilience etc also. And so I would be really excited to talk about partnering to do restoration work there where it hasn't been stewarded in those
types of ways in a very long time. And you can tell from the changes in the woods what it looks like that it hasn't been and it could um and getting people involved and doing that stewardship I
think would be really cool and would teach us a lot and um and engage people and help the land. So I don't know what what else would be helpful to say from that end. That's that's where I am.
>> What are some of the restoration techniques that would be, you know, useful there? Oh, and also part of what's interesting to me about your purpose is doing research to see how those techniques are done, partly because they've been lost over time. So, if you want to just mention that, that'd
be great. >> Yeah. Um, one of our core goals is to partner for research, both what we can learn and also hopefully partnering with other researchers because there's a lot that isn't known about what exactly
people did and how they did it over time. Um there are places where people are still doing pieces of these practices, but um hearing from native folks I've spoken with, there's a lot that needs to be learned and relearned. And also what that looks like on the land as it is now, where it has seen a
lot of changes and just doesn't doesn't look the same as when um that stewardship was primarily stopped, taken off of the land. Um, and it certainly doesn't look the same as when that stewardship started on the land many
thousands of years before that. Um, and so learning as much as we can from the work that we do about um, what that looks like and how to do it now both for any place where we're working and
hopefully to be able to teach other people about what to do, how to do it, and the benefits of doing it. Um, one of the terms of concrete stewardship, the sort of overall one of the major tools
that is important for us to use on the land is fire because fire is in many ways the major tool that indigenous peoples have used historically to steward the land. in some ways, you know, I I find that
everywhere I go, most of the places that I look at either for this purpose or just walking around um is, you know, I I look at it and I say, you know, it really it really looks like it needs fire. And at some point I was like, why do I keep say, you know, it feels like I just keep saying, well, it needs fire. It needs fire. It needs fire. Um and
part of that is um that that's really the biggest thing that it hasn't seen in several hundred years. And that was a very common frequent force, right? It's like it's like walking into a woods and seeing it and saying, you know, people are like, "Well, there's something off with this with this, you know, with the
the the how the woods is developing. It's not healthy. Something's wrong. Can you come look at it?" And I look at it and it's under, you know, 2 ft of water. And they're like, "Oh, yeah. You know, several years ago, somebody, you know, changed the water and, you know, it's just been under 2 ft of water." Okay, whatever else you might need to do, we got to start by addressing the water if
you want your your woods to look the way it was. And um and it's kind of the same thing with fire that that hasn't been there. And so that's one important piece. Um other pieces include um from a pragmatic perspective, some amount of
thinning, right? Tree removal because of how it's grown in without fire is important for restoring it. You know, you could do it with just fire, but that takes a lot longer and is a lot more dangerous than doing, you know, some other thinning work. Um, having people
out on the land gathering, seeing what's there, gathering food is from, um, the perspectives of the indigenous folks I've talked with and read and and from what I've seen ecologically is an important part of stewardship is gathering um, getting getting people out
there to see what's there, to engage with the land, to eat food from the land, to learn how to take food from the land in ways that are ecologically sustaining is an important piece. Um, and then things like invasive addressing invasives. I don't like just to say
invasives removal because I think an important piece of it is um what role what should be the place of invasives on the land, right? For the most part, it's removal, but that's there's a little more complexity there. So, I don't know how long you want me to talk about it,
but that's that's a first blush. >> That's great. And if you could just tell us um or remind us because I know you mentioned it the last time you were here but that was a brief visit when we had a lot on your our plate. Um your background and then also some of your
adviserss that you're working with. >> Yes. Um my back so my own background I did biology with um an ecology focus for my undergrad and my graduate research
was on diverse stakeholder involvement in environmental decision-m um and kind of how that works when it works how it could work better in a lot of context sort of what I was researching um and >> did you all study at MIT what were your
institutions Yeah. Okay. >> My undergrad was at Brandeise University and then at Brown University and then my masters and PhD were at MIT. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. And um what what I'm trying to
remember what the other question was. I'm sorry. Oh, who our adviserss are? Yeah. Um um so our primary kind of official advisor to the project is Darren Reno. He is um he's at UMIN and he's Ponobscot
um and he does a lot of work on um land native land issues and native land stewardship and how native and non-native people can partner for land stewardship and for um good science about the land. Um, and there are other
people I've been engaging with and talking with um, who have advised in various capacities but haven't offered their names to be public at this time. So, but he's really our official advisor. >> Excellent. Thank you. So, I don't want to keep us doing going
too much further, but I just want to check in to see if having further discussions with Schlomia makes sense, if we can maybe find some next steps or um or maybe we can keep discussing this. What's your thought? >> So, I I think um I'm I love what you're
you're talking about. I think this is all really really interesting and important work. Um, I think that what would be really useful uh for the commission would to be to put a sort of a specific ask on this information. Um, and so I I my understanding in in what
I'm hearing is that you're interested in using this specific piece of property to do some of this work. Is that fair? I'm looking over here, but you're >> Yes. I'd be excited to
partner with the commission to you to do some of this work on Canada Hill and have it be a space where we do all these different things and uh yes. >> Great. So I so I think what would be
helpful um would be to um sort of uh much like the presentation that we just had from Emily, have sort of a a list of you know maybe your top five projects that you really want to tackle that you think would be a good fit for this particular location and then sort of
think about that within the framework of the location itself, you know. So, I I I think my my off-the cuff response is probably burning is um not high on the list of things that we can tackle right away. That seems like we'd have to involve the fire department and some
other um things and figure out if we could even be able to do that given the constraints that we have as a conservation land. Um, but I I think it would be great to see um a sort of a fleshed out proposal about specifically what projects you do think that we could
do on this property, which pieces of the property that you would like to do them on, and um sort of how you would like to to implement them. Um because as with any project of this nature, u hands are often in short supply. Uh, and so if we
could see something of that nature, I think that would be a really great next step of um how to make this work. Does that seem fair to the rest of the commission? >> That sounds really good. Thank you. >> Yeah, I
>> Yeah, I'm sorry. >> Go ahead. You can go ahead. Um, I'm just curious what you mean by which like top five projects because I guess as I was seeing it, it's all one project, right? To see what the land needs and then go about those different
pieces. I don't >> I select >> breaking it out into steps or procedures. You know, some of what we talked about when we were out on the land was that one of your first steps would be to really engage with the neighbors and to like especially since
so many of them are really like watching out for the property and have a lot of investment in it. So maybe um you know a a steps or phases would be helpful. Something to give us a sense of what it would look like. >> Yes.
>> Okay, that sounds great. Yes. Thank you. >> Yeah. And I guess I just to add to that um what I was [clears throat] going to say is uh it it makes me think a little bit about the project at the Green River swimming area where they're managing
invasives there. And essentially we asked for an entire written plan for what they were going to do, where they were going to do it, how they were going to do it, when they were going to do it, who was going to do it, um when they were going to be done, how they're going
to document it. Uh how things if things are getting removed, where are they going to go? Um, basically it was like a whole uh, you know, just so we can make sure we know what's going on and make sure we're you know, approving things that align with the management of the
land. And um, and you know, I think also with that group, it's sort of an ongoing conversation um, where they're like, "Here's our plan. Here's what we're going to do." And then, you know, they've been doing it for a long time now, and they keep coming back and giving updates and asking for, you know,
more direction for where they're going to go. So I think this could be sort of a similar project to that. I mean this isn't just invasive removal but you know it's a similar could be a similar structure I guess to um if we ask that other group to do that it makes sense to
be consistent in how we're asking people um you know with managing conservation land >> and that provides a model too. Um could we share the plan that they put together with the schlamia? >> Yes. >> Excellent. Yes,
>> thank you. I I guess >> that would be great. Thank you. >> Awesome. And then funding is another issue to tackle um to find out what types of um thing. But there, you know, the list that I put in that that um
slides for Grisswald, any of those might be relevant. And there might be other funding sources that are specific to um indigenous partnerships or indigenous stewardship that um you know would also be something that'd be appropriate for this project.
>> This sound like adding new >> Yeah, I did not manage to jot all those down. So maybe I'll get in touch with you Emily for that slide too. Will it >> I also have it. I could send it with um the kind of the format uh that our other
applicant provided when they for the Green [clears throat] River Conservation Area and uh and I could send that to you probably tomorrow or the next day. Um I wanted to ask the commission. I was looking through to try to find
somewhat of a history of the parcel. I wasn't able to find much and I wasn't sure if anybody on the commission might have some background to what that parcel was used for in the past or any history to pass pass on.
>> Um I So I do know that we have the You mean like before it became conservation land? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. I was going to say I know since it became conservation land, but >> I found an article in the paper and that was about it. Yeah. I'm I don't know.
>> What's its history since it's been conservation land, Travis? Oh, well I mean I um uh you know we have like the deeds for when we have the deed for when the property was uh sold and um I don't have
much but there was also um a newspaper article from 1998 um about the property and [clears throat] >> I think that might be the one that I passed on right that was it was the late 90s I think that article >> town to acquire protect 14 acres on
Canada Hill. >> Yeah. Yeah, that was it. >> Okay. >> Yeah, >> that's about what I know. >> Okay, thank you. >> All right, that's all I've got. >> Anything else that that'd be helpful, Schlimia? Or uh
>> um No, I mean I'm I'm I guess I'm sort of broadly curious and I don't know whether now is the time for that because I know that that you have a schedule. um is sort of more about how you make decisions about how to do sort of what types of stewardship to do, what you like to see on land, but we could talk
about that now or another time. >> I think that some of those things might come from the um the plan that you uh generate to bring to us. Um I think >> because of what you're what you're interested in. Um I think it would be a
function of this is the stewardship practice that we would like to implement. um does that fit within the framework of the um conservation regulations and requirements? Um and I think we have a sort of an even exchange that way and keep our relationship open
and moving forward um to sort of uh adopt the practices that we can and adjust those that don't not might not necessarily fit. >> Okay, that sounds great. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I'll just add to that. I think
a lot of what we approve that happens on conservation land is uh based on who comes to the conservation commission and has ideas for things to do on conservation land because um you know there isn't always time for us to
initiate uh management practices and things. So having someone uh like volunteer ideas or volunteer to do the work or you know volunteer to write grants to do the work or [laughter] you know things like that. I think that's a
lot of like if people are proposing things like that and it aligns with you know the the management of conservation land I think that's generally how it happens in my in my understanding. Great. Thank you.
>> Okay. Well, thank you for coming to see us again. >> Patty is raised. >> Oh, Patty. Uh, hand up. >> Hi. Um, if I may ask, um, I'm curious
how you arrived on this parcel for this project, which I clearly and uh, believe in, uh, very similar things. >> Yeah. Is that a question for me or a question for the commissioner for
>> Well, well, I'll I'll answer why I brought it to Schlamia's attention was when you I I said what what kinds of forests or land are you looking for? you know, there's different cover types and what you described it was, you know, uh land that was oak, maybe oak hickory
that had um mass bearing shrubs and particularly ones that had evidence of chestnut or chestnut stumps, you know, that were respouting. And I said, "Oh my god, I just walked a property that ex looked exactly like that not a couple of
months ago." And so that's Patty, that's why I I I was like, "Oh, well, wait a minute." and and I'd been sort of racking my brain thinking about properties that I'd seen that were conserved or that that Franklin Lantress stewarded, but then I saw one here and
um so it just it really fit that that profile that that particular style that you were looking for. I don't know if there's other prop um you know landscapes that you're interested in or researching, but it fit all of that criteria. So that's why I mentioned
Canada Hill. Cool. >> Which >> Well, I' I'd also I'd love to talk to you more later, >> that sounds great. Yeah. >> Are there any other questions um foria
at this moment? >> Comments? >> I I I don't know if this was part of the I think I was away on uh parental leave when all this got started. Um, but I don't know if this was part of the thought process or not, but I'm pretty
sure this property is part of the historic or prehistoric PC ridge trail. So, I know it's been like um, you know, a trail uh that, you know, native people have used um for, you know, thousands of
years or whatever. So, um it sounds like a good parcel to me, you know, for for this kind of uh management practice as well for that reason, too. >> Yeah. And I I would I would venture to say that there's a there's a decent
chance that that's that's not accidental, right? The fact that it has that suite of species is probably attributable to the fact that there was indeed a town right there and that sort of thing. That's exactly
um that's exactly what's going on. I would say the fact that it's conservation land obviously is you know not to be assumed um but once it is that that confluence makes sense. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> All right. Well, I look forward to seeing your uh proposal. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Great to see you, Shamia. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. Great to see you. >> All right. Uh next on our agenda, we
have a proposal for a hazard tree removal policy. Uh the agent proposes instituting a hazard tree removal policy. Uh this will allow the agent to provide administrative approval for the removal of up to five trees within jurisdictional resource areas if they pose a threat to the safety of property
owners or structures commission to discuss the need for the policy, any edits they would like to see and determine if there are ready to vote to approve. Uh 15 minutes have been allocated for this agenda item. So, did everybody have a chance to look
over the um the documents that cover the tree removal policy? >> Yes. [laughter] >> No one's saying anything, so I'll say yes. >> Okay. I did, too. Yay. [laughter]
Um, I did put a couple of comments in the um document, but I thought overall it was it was good and and sound. I had a couple of comments, but I didn't know if I was supposed to put in the
document or not. >> I wrote them down, but >> Oh, good. [laughter] >> But I don't have my computer because >> I'm pulling it up. Can Can we put it up on the I don't know if it helps me. >> Oh yeah. >> To share it or not.
>> I don't know. I can I have it open? >> Yeah, I could share it. >> If I don't put my comments in the document, I won't remember anything. [laughter] >> Um why? >> So there's a proposal um policy and then
an application that you generated too. That's that's helpful. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. the application is yeah what the public would submit and it coincides the policy so it it's cohesive
>> so I highlighted things in yellow that I wanted to run by you guys >> on top of the actual policy um there's just things like specific like no more than three of the five
trees may be located solely in the 25 foot no disturb zone like that kind of specific stuff where it could be no more than two or no you know or not five trees four trees what you know all this would be very easy to change
I just wanted to get like the bulk of the policy written down so we could move the ball forward But it's definitely open to tweaks um in that in that in all regards really
but especially in those regards. So, >> so the idea is basically that you would check most of these before even but they would check all of them unless for some reason this tree was like emergency >> like on on its way down and they had to
deal with it in that moment. All applications would come before me >> and then >> yeah, it would it'd be a means of expediting the process due to the the risk for
safety or or personal property um destruction or >> right >> damage I guess is the word. Um but the idea would be that the commission
would discuss the conditions now so that when I review these applications, I can ensure that the the conditions that the commission would want to see would be ones that I relayed to the applicant and there was a
paper trail and and all that. So, it wasn't it wasn't it w the the end goal wouldn't be like without the commission's um I don't know. >> It's not a goound. It's not a shortcut.
>> Exactly. Exactly. They're not like getting to do something without like kind of commission oversight or whatever. So, there certainly be, you know, um mitigation that would have to be done. There's a whole section on mitigation. It talks about, you know,
like best practices like, you know, park heavy equipment on paved areas like, you know, no heavy equipment in wetlands that all that just to be really clear instead of the, you know, so that it's written down.
There's like a clear path forward not only for future agents but also for Greenfield residents. So they they they have a clear understanding of okay this tree has to come down what is okay to do you know the tree companies know it's
all it's all there >> so >> I think one question I had was um it doesn't say anything about um leaving a stump in place or it says stump but not like
>> a snag you know, like a six foot snag or whatever. >> Okay. Yeah. There's no there's nothing about snags. >> And that's a lot of uh I feel like a lot of times when people want to cut a tree down, we'll say or if it's like, you know, if it's a hazard, you know, say
it's like 10 feet from your house and it's a huge tree. Well, what if you left an eight foot snag, like that's not going to hit your house, you know, and it still has like wildlife value. Mhm. >> Um I mean that could be something that
maybe that's only if it's in like instead of just buffer zone maybe only if it's in a resource area or only if it's in the no disturb zone or >> right >> or yeah I was going to say or at least I mean I had written down at least saying our preference would be for you to leave
a snag or to leave the log there for habitat >> or we could say leave a snag If there's a reason it can't be done, you need to explain why, >> right? >> And that has to be approved. >> I don't know. >> Right. So, as it relates to that piece,
it sounds like the language should be something to effective. Deal with the emergency piece. Do not take any more than is necessary until we can then assess what we require you to leave behind as a snag versus stump versus this. >> Well, I mean, the only thing is that
makes it sound like it's going to get cut twice potentially. Yeah, >> people probably aren't going to want to go. >> Yeah. Have the equipment come out twice. >> Um [clears throat] cuz like also with the mitigation part like if they're All right, let's just say let's just let's just like do a
little run through. >> What if someone had three trees that were in close proximity to their home? They're very tall. Mhm. >> And they want to just cut them to the
stump so that they can replant them. Is there any is there any like acknowledgment of not wanting three like decapitated kind of trees right next to their house?
>> Aesthetics essentially. Yeah. >> Yeah. Which cuz like that's a thing that it's someone's yard but you know where do we draw the line between like habitat value and you know if they are going to
replant another tree in its place native tree um is there it could it be like mitigation is leave the snag or or some sort of like ABC.
So, they have some options for aesthetics or if it's over three trees, you you know, 50% has to be snags or I don't know, something like that to give them a little bit more >> autonomy over their own property.
>> Yeah. >> But still putting an emphasis on mitigation. So, I there's one piece of this that sticks for me, and that's the replanting a tree in as close proximity as possible to this tree that was just taken down
when that tree was taken down because it became a problem for the house. >> And so, it seems counterintuitive to me to just plant a new tree that will then in the future have to be taken down because it was proximity to the house, >> right? And that's what I was talking to
like the the the resident that I this came up with. Um, I was saying shrubs >> was most appropriate and that because you don't want to just have the same problem again, >> right? >> There was a part of this where I did talk about
>> I did see two shrubs for a large tree. >> Um, what did I say? Two >> two shrubs for this for the for the for the large tree replacement. >> Two two shrubs or one tree or >> Okay. >> One shrub and one tree or something for
the smaller Oh yeah. So it gave the option if it was a large tree to replace it with a tree or or two shrubs if that was like Well, there might be reasons why it does make sense to um plant a tree where
there was a tree. For example, if an ash is the tree that's being taken down, but you're going to plant something that doesn't have as many health threats, >> then it maybe a healthy tree would be fine near the house, but a a a diseased tree wouldn't be.
>> Yeah. >> So, there are a lot of like combinations. Also, um I like the fact that you said you can replace it, but it has to be a native tree. So that sort of one of the reasons people can cut is if they want to get rid of a um invasive um exotic tree, then they want to we want
them to bring in something that's, you know, suitable for the landscape. >> Yeah. >> Um so I I don't think it says anything in there about where the mitigation trees are planted.
>> It did. It said um as >> I think it said as close to approximately but >> but or it said but >> or closer to the wetland edge >> closer to the edge >> or it was up or something was like missions >> if the tree is like right up on their
house they can replace it and plant the closer to the wetland >> so that it's not like >> threatening you know there's a lot of insurance companies too. Won't >> Yeah. Right. >> Won't ensure >> um >> could we add um I don't know if this
makes sense, but could we add leaving a tall standing snag that's still safe to one of the waiver conditions? You know, like instead of planting just >> Oh, yeah. >> leave a lot of the tree as a wildlife >> installation. I guess the only question
there is would that that would sort of mean that to us it's like preferable to leave a snag like is it preferable to have a new native tree there >> or is it preferable to have a snag and I think a lot of times when we've done this in the past >> I don't think we've had people replant
trees I think we've had them just leave the snag and say that's it >> right people just come and said they need to take something down we haven't said >> yeah so I mean I think if they're replanting native shrubs or trees that might be better than, you know, >> yeah, >> I think especially given that we're
talking up to five trees at this point, >> um, if it were a larger swath of trees, then I think that the that snag or leave the log piece might be more critical. But >> does it make would it make a difference
like you were saying like maybe if it's if they are in the no disturb zone maybe leaving the snag instead of going in and disturbing a more plant. >> Um and then but outside it it could be more of an option maybe something like that.
>> That makes sense to me. >> Yeah. And I I think there will still need to be like a case by case basis kind of administrative aspect to it depending on where the structures are located in proximity to >> Yeah. Because I know,
>> you know, and like the health of >> what they want to cut if it's like already partially >> blown. I don't know. I think there's still like a nuanced >> way about it. But I do want to add I certain I do want to add a snag
component to this. There's an operational issue, too, because leaving a stag snag is easier if you're using equipment, >> whereas if you're just cutting it with a chainsaw, >> you can't do this, >> right? Or you have to have somebody
climb, which is dangerous, right? >> Yeah. Exactly. So, if if somebody's in a wetlands and they're just using a chainsaw, then it might be difficult for them to leave uh substantial snag. Certainly they could leave a taller
stump but um uh so the fact that we're dealing with wetlands I don't know but I don't know you've said that they've often left stumps in the past so obviously people are able to do it I mean um snags in the past. >> Yeah we have had people um complain about the cost in doing so but then
they've done it so >> it's possible >> it might be preferable if that was not but also I don't think those people had to replant trees. >> Yeah. So, and keep them alive for two years at least. >> We have >> Yeah. And I see a difference with like
someone wanting to cut trees because they're putting up they're like building something. They're looking for a building permit versus the random resident that has a threat to their safety. You know, they're not coming before us to try to like
>> propose like a project that they're going to generate income on or anything. It's just like they're they have a hazard tree in their yard and I wouldn't want to impose like undue expenses. >> Yeah.
>> Or I wouldn't Yeah, that's not what I'm proposing. So, it's really up to you guys. Um, >> I'm interested in the removal too because leaving the tree on the ground, um, can be beneficial as long as it's not a fire hazard or, you know, if it's,
you know, if it's someplace that it can be left. That's >> right. >> You know, and I really like the discussion in the policy about the benefits of standing trees of tree materials and of >> Yeah, the little educational portion. >> Yeah, [laughter] it's good. No, I think that that matters
if this is a public facing policy piece of paper or document. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think the application asks about removal like if it's going to be removed or >> um >> Yeah. because I could like we could just
this could be like our discussion night and I could go back through and incorporate these little tidbits into the policy >> um to make it more thoughtful in that way because I I do think there could be
like yeah in the application maybe it says like are you removing the the log or whatever and also it could be like do you plan do you intend to leave a snag or something like that even if it's just planting >> and and then in like the educational
part of it, it could talk about the importance of snags and logs and stuff to plant the thought that that's an option. They don't have to >> chop it, >> just take it all out of there. Yeah. >> Um I'm a little bit uh I don't know if
this is changing the subject, but going back to where it says be planted as close to the cut tree as possible or closer to the wetland edge. Um, I guess maybe that should say resource area instead of wetland because it could be in riverfront area, it could be a
wetland, it could be a vernal pool. >> Okay. >> Um, >> okay, I can update that. >> And um, yeah, it could be in a resource area or
it could be in a buffer zone, right? So, >> yeah. So, um, the other great thing about the application is that I would be or the a whatever agent would be able to like approve where they want to plant
it. And so, if they're trying to plant it like in the wetland, they like, "Oh, let's just move it back >> away, you know." So, it's like >> kind of telling them close to the cut tree or closer to the resource area. Um
but then ultimately it's the agent that's gonna be like that's a good spot, that's not a good spot. >> Yeah. >> And for whatever reason. >> Yeah. I guess I guess I'm uh I'm wondering if it
needs to be that specific. Um I I don't know. I'm just thinking of like situations where maybe it makes more sense to plant a replacement tree somewhere else on the property that's like also in a resource
area or also in the buffer zone but is like further away from the house and maybe it's more likely to be there for you know decades or whatever. Um, and so maybe I don't know. I'm I'm just thinking like maybe it should just be like
>> placement of the tree needs to be approved by the agent, [laughter] you know, something like that just to keep it vague. >> Something vague. Okay. >> So, it could be more of a mitigation rather than a strict replacement kind of idea [clears throat] >> maybe >> because it's being put somewhere else
then it's >> Yeah, that would be more mitigation than >> Yeah. So it's just >> or or it could be the things could change to say if it's replacement you know like one for one replacement in place or two for one mitigation
elsewhere on your property you know >> I mean that's something I [laughter] we can make it as complicated as we want but you know I'm just thinking there are these other options too. Yeah, that's
um okay. This this is great. Um let's see. I will say in general, I think it would be great to have a policy like this in place. And I know uh trying to get us all to agree on one specific thing can be a little bit like hurting cats maybe,
but I think we'll get there. >> Sounds like there's only unless there are other concerns and issues that you've seen as we as you go through it. Sounds like there's one thing that we need to really massage and the rest of it is I mean my stuff is largely semantics in there. M >> um
>> that's yeah mine was a kind of yeah with some words more >> word smithing >> just word smithing and maybe some placement I don't know I was just >> like the flow of the document >> well or or almost sort of like right right at the beginning where it talks about tree removal policy does not apply
to a major forest cutting but I think maybe also add right there at the beginning or just a tree because it's inconvenient or whatever I I mean I know it's called a hazard plan But people sometimes skip that and they think, "Oh, I can just take it down any tree I want." But I think >> I think calling that out right at the
beginning so they say, "Oh, wait. Oh, I can't just take it down because I feel >> Yeah. >> Um I just >> don't know how many I just know [laughter] many people don't really read things and you know and I think just and I know you put there was a whole section at the bottom where it said like
>> whatever that this was not for whatever I don't know, >> right? >> Non-hazardous tree removal, whatever. But yeah, uh like how many people get to the end, you know, [laughter] I think putting that up near the near >> need a TLDDR. >> I think that's a really good point. Um
lead with the big the big point and then >> just sort the details after. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I guess I just always >> I don't know. >> I mean, I I have that problem >> that way. [laughter] Right.
>> Okay. you and I'll just I'll skip to the to the form. Tell me what to do [laughter] and not read the whole thing. But >> yeah, exactly. Okay. Yeah, I'll do that. I'll change that. >> Um >> Oh, and I will point out that it does say mitigation instead of replacement in
there already. So, >> okay, then there you go. >> I don't know. I mean, it is mitigating the cut and you know it if you're replacing we're not necessarily replacing because maybe it was a non-native and we're replacing it with a native. So that's
>> exactly >> mitigating and I don't know [laughter] or replacing you know adding shrubs instead of a tree. >> I like the fact that there's options. I feel like that's strong, you know, gives people the ability to adapt it >> and and we're, you know, we're trying to
make this be one policy that'll fit a million different um issues. So, having there be different pathways that people can take seems like a good way to and then people also can figure out what fits their budget. >> Yeah. >> Okay, great.
Is this going to um I guess I was wondering is this going to be sort of our um like when we get people who say I didn't know I was not I was supposed to let you know and this is our kind of like safety net like yes it was on
website you >> yeah I other towns have it on their the towns I referenced had it on their website and I just and it was like a FAQ like what if I have a hazard tree in a jurisdictional you know and it can link to the I mean, so so it kind of it sort
of >> disallows that that excuse of I just didn't know >> kind of thing. >> Yeah. I mean, I feel like there'll always be those people, >> right? Like that's why I didn't I didn't know. I mean, I don't I don't want to be too petty or whatever, but I didn't know if there should be a section that said like
failure to adhere to to prior approval, >> right? >> Or to adhere to the guidelines could result in, >> you know, fines or extra mitigation, you know, some kind of financial, you know, if you don't adhere. >> Yeah. >> You know, let us know first of
guidelines >> that will be deposited directly into our conservation. >> Right. [laughter] Right. Right. Well, I mean, I saw >> actually if we collect funds, they go into the city's general funds. If we collect fines, [laughter] they go into the city's general. >> Well, I I was looking at the tree one and it says right there, if you do, you
know, if you cut something down without asking them, they the first time it's $100, second time it's $200. I don't know >> whatever. So, I didn't know if you know. >> Yeah. I don't know what um >> I don't know >> extra steps are involved to get like an
approval to be able to find somebody. Is that >> Well, we've been given the approval by city council [laughter] >> that we would it is it just a matter of
me proposing a number and you all >> I think there are certain guidelines for I think there's like a limit on how much is allowed to be fined. >> Um and I forget what I don't know what the number is off the top of my head but there is like a limit to like what it
can be. Um, and I think in the in our the wetlands regulations, I think it outlines like what we're allowed to find people for or like in general. I think it's like for people not following our
order. Like if we do, you know, uh, what's that called? >> Order. >> Enforcement order. And then they're like not doing it, then we can find them for that or >> things like that. So yeah. >> So or but well so if if we can't do
money it could be maybe that we we were call we would require extra mitigation like instead of one to one now you have to do two to one you have to do three to one or whatever. >> Okay. >> You I don't know >> right >> and then if they don't do that we do an
enforcement order and then we find them. [laughter] >> Yeah. I'm just trying to cut down on as much of trying to after the fact having to >> you know >> dealate the issue. >> Yeah.
>> Um >> Okay. Yeah, I'll add a bit. >> Just a thought. I mean it doesn't mean I don't know. It doesn't but just a thought. >> Okay. Um, and I did have a little I mean I I mean I read what it said there, but the emergency one where
they don't have to have priority, but they have >> Yeah, I know. It's kind of cuz it's like, oh, this is for hazards. >> Yeah. I'm just worried that that might get taken advantage of that people are going to be like, "Oh, it's emergency." I know. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Yeah. I mean, maybe it's maybe it's that
they have to they have to at least call and say, "Oh my god, I have this tree that is like breaking off right now. I'm going to have to cut it. I will send you a picture within two days." >> Yeah. >> Or something. I don't know. >> It does require Can read it out. If a tree becomes emergency tree removal, if
a tree or trees become an im imminent danger to life or property, it can be removed without prior approval, provided the hazard tree removal application is retroactively submitted to the cons uh conservation department with photo of the tree or trees within 48 hours of
removal. So, so that's what that we're requiring. >> And I think for a branch, they can take down a branch. Like I don't think they have to come to us for that because vista pruning is >> Oh yeah. It's not Yeah. >> So they can take a branch down. They just can't kill a tree. >> Yeah.
>> I guess they could remove enough branches that it kills the tree. But Oops. >> Because I do I do think this is fine still because they still are required to send photo documentation. They're still required to fill out the application and I believe they're still required to do
the mitigation. And so it's just it's still like >> I guess I I guess >> they're not like let off the hook. >> No, but I I guess I'm just I'm always like thinking the opposite way like thinking well what if you get the picture and you you're like that was not like imminent. They >> you know you need you should have come be you should have you know presented
that asked me beforehand. What do you do then? Um well >> I know I just feel like pe you know what do you do? It's like [laughter] I I just think that like hopefully the majority of people are really just trying to do good and they want to make
sure that their lives and properties aren't at risk if there is, you know, and that and this does pro would provide >> the expectation that like you're in a resource area so you can't just take it down without replacing it in some way.
extra care should be taken because it's sensitive habitat and sensitive like soils you need to like park on the you know just something because some people just they don't have the knowhow you know they they can tell it's a wetland
but they don't necessarily know you know like oh the equipment should come in from this I don't know just some sort of guidance um >> was there something in there that said that it had to be an approved tree service or something like that. I
mean certified arborist. Yeah, certified arous. But but >> Oh, the who does the removal? >> Oh, who does the I don't I don't think I did. >> I thought there was a little like a little line and I was like I don't know, but maybe not. >> The applicant may choose an arborist of their choice.
>> Yeah. No, no, >> capital A arborist. Um, yeah, a lot of this is like copied from >> Well, I just was wondering, I mean, are people allowed to take it down themselves with a chainsaw or whatever? >> Um, >> I think as long they should be able to
as long as they do it according to the way it should be done. >> Yeah. It doesn't need to be someone who's like >> doesn't have to be a tree >> certified, you know, wetland tree remover.
Um I I I feel like that's like not necessarily, you know, not like if it was like pesticide application, we want someone who's like certified >> or licensed, >> legally required. >> Yeah. But yeah. So, but I feel like
that's >> that's not the >> that's their I feel like up to them to figure Well, that's what I that's what I was thinking, but I I thought I saw red something and I was like, so I mean I was just trying that's what I was just trying I was like, does that mean I can't do it themselves? >> When I go back through this this week,
I'll look to see >> I could I could be like I said, I was reading the tree warden one also and I might have mixed up. >> Yeah. Like after reading this and working on it for so long, like I started confusing what I had where, what I read where, and
I needed to just like put it down for a week so that I could start fresh. And >> um did you say you saw the tree warden's like application to remove? Is that what it was? >> No, I didn't. Didn't you posted their their
>> the policy? Yeah. Um, so I just was reading >> and that's good too so that if it is within whatever the period public area is on the street tree then it falls under his juris. >> Yeah. >> And would it be possible to get the tree
warden to share >> like if it's in a resource you know wetland resource area whatever you have to go to the conservation commission you know like we could say if it's a street tree go to them and they could say if it's wetlands go to them. >> Yeah. Yeah. that coordination back and
forth so that way if someone just looks at like tree warden and stuff on the website they're not like oh well doesn't say anything about wetlands >> true >> okay >> that could be like a coordination there >> yeah absolutely >> okay
anything else great job it really looks good >> and I do think it's good to try to get things so that the res will do it, you know. So, >> don't make it prohibitive >> instead of Yeah. instead. Yeah. Prohibitive or or they just
>> do it without having to do all their stuff because it's just easier. >> Absolutely. >> Um so, yeah, I think making it is >> as easy as >> Mhm. and sheep. >> Um FYI in the uh wetlands ordinance it
says any person who violates any provision of this chapter or regulations, permits or administrative orders issued there shall be punished by a fine of not more than $300 per day >> each day blah blah blah blah. So >> that's what it says there. Uh I think so this is under um I think you need to
look up it says the commission job of authority to enforce this chapter its regulations and permits um by noncriminal citations under Massachusetts general law chapter 40 section 21D
um and I think that might say like what is legally allowable for fine limits in there for noncriminal citations. >> Okay. So, um I don't know if we wanted to throw a number on there, we should,
you know, just double check that cuz >> Yeah, cuz those f those fines, you're saying it would go into general fund. Do you mean the wetlands protection? >> No, they go into the city's >> the city's general fund >> the city's general fund. And then we could go to city council and say, "Oh,
we collected $1,000 in fines this year. Can you please give us $1,000 into our thing?" and they might do it, but um in general it just goes into Yeah, I think it's that way so that way we're not doing a bunch of fines to make money. You know what I [laughter] mean?
>> Like we don't get any benefit from it, >> right? >> But >> and maybe being a little I was going to say a little um less specific. I mean something like not more than you you could face a fine of up to not more than $300 or whatever. And that way again
it's up to you sort of like how bad was the >> Yeah. infraction. >> Infraction. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And they didn't you know >> just need that ticket book. >> Or we can go to the police and say please write a fine for this person. >> Yeah. >> Or we could ask them to just play an
extra or whatever. [laughter] >> Okay. Sounds great. Uh yeah, by the fines it says property owner shall be notified of the fine by certified male uh or served by the enforcing persons which shall be the conservation commission, any of its design or any police officer. So it does
say a police officer can do it or the agent or anyone on the conservation commission. >> Oh, okay. Great. Did you try police and they didn't want to do it? >> That was before me. >> Oh yeah. >> Okay. Um
so moving on to our next item. A vote authorizing signatures of commissions. Uh commission will vote to authorize the conservation agent to electronically sign the Greenfield Conservation Commission documents on behalf of individual members. >> Okay. So I looked into this topic more.
I called the registry of deeds. They are still accepting electronic signatures from the agent for the commission. Um, [clears throat] the person I spoke with doesn't know what happened in the situation where
somebody's certificate of compliance was rejected. Um, but they said if they tried to submit it online or digitally, they need to submit it with the the vote. >> If they came in person, they have the
vote on record. So it's there's a chance that person tried to do it digitally. Um so either way I think we should re-up this and then I as as a default we'll always include it so that whoever has
the option to submit it digitally or in person >> should but should it be something that says specifically you now or should it be saying just say the green the city of Greenfield conservation agent? >> Yes. that it's always [laughter] >> I think >> if you're not if you're not here
>> um I think yeah it should just say the agent as generically but it will have the date and I am the agent >> right >> okay >> so maybe in the motion you could say
um well I have the motion written here it it says the conservation conservation agent is authorized. So that's generic enough >> for me. If someone wants to read the motion, >> I think I would maybe just add the official the city of Greenfield
conservation. >> Yeah, I it's this. It's this. That's the motion. >> So it just starts there. >> Can you make a motion? >> Right. I can't. >> Okay. >> How about I'll I'll do this. Can I get a motion that the Conservation Commission
hereby recognizes and accepts the provisions of MGLC 1110G regarding electronic signatures and that its members will henceforth execute documents either with electronic signatures or with wet ink signatures and that both will carry the same legal
weight and effect. The conservation agent is authorized to electronically sign Greenfield Conservation Commission documents on the behalf of individual members. Uh, I make that motion. >> Can I get a second? >> A second.
>> Okay. All right. Great. Then we uh will vote to approve this. Um, starting with Emily >> I. >> Erica. >> I. >> Travis. >> I. >> I am also an I. The motion passes unanimously. >> Great.
All right. Final item on the agenda. Concert. We've really made up time without [laughter] too much. >> Conservation Commission accounts review the bank accounts held by the commission balances and means through which those accounts are funded.
>> Uh I have some great news guys. So I reached out to accounting >> to generate reports. I don't have the reports. Um I'm going to work with uh Ella to get the specific reports. But I
did get to the bottom of the where is the $5,000 for our conservation fund. It is in there. We have just over $5,000. And what the problem was was when the reports were being generated,
Eric was entering the um the account but then putting like because the account has sub accounts. So he was he was narrowing the filter too much and so the sub account had zero. >> Okay. >> But the so whatever the $5,000 is was in
other sub accounts of the main account. So anyway, we have $5,000 in our conservation fund. It's really exciting. So Ella and I are going to work this week to get like specific transaction history kind of stuff for each account so that we have it. But I think our
major question was answered with where did that money go? >> Um, so yeah, that's the conservation fund. >> Great. >> Yeah, >> good job. >> Yep. [laughter] >> We're rich and we can >> We're rich. >> I know. [laughter]
>> Four digits. It's a comma in there. [laughter] And just a note for anyone watching this on YouTube, uh, anyone can make a donation into the Greenfield Conservation Fund if you would like and it only requires the approval of the mayor to go in there. So feel free to do
that. >> And what are the restrictions on that fund? >> Uh, that can basically be used for anything for conservation land. Anything that we do relating to conservation, land management, buy it,
>> build trails, print things, make signs, [snorts] uh habitat restoration. Yeah, that can be used for anything. >> That's my update for that and I'll add more. I'll add it to the agenda again
when I have the transaction history. Great. Well, that's exciting. Uh, and that looks like everything for the evening. Yeah, I have no updates on uh
well, I guess I could update you on um 384 Deerfield Street, which is the wastewater treatment facility. Um they have wrapped up their construction. I went over there. It looks great. But um
all erosion controls are still in place because it's winter >> and so they'll be seating in the spring and probably looking for a COC come sometime after the spring. >> Great. Yeah. Cool.
Okay. Well, that having all been said, I would love to hear a Oh, wait a minute. What is our next um All right, so our next Conservation Commission meeting will be Tuesday,
February 10th, 2026 at 6:30 p.m. Can I get a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> Can I get a second? >> Second. >> All right. Um, starting with Emily, let's vote to Ajourn. >> I >> Erica >> I >> Travis >> I
>> I am also an I. See you all on February 10th.