--------- It is 8:32. I will call the meeting to order. This meeting is being recorded by the Valley Health Regional Collaborative, the VHRC. If any other persons present are doing the same, you must notify the chairpersons at this time.
Okay. No discussion or comments will be entertained unless requested upon by the board or the chair by the chairperson or the board or committee. Okay. new business. Um, so the the nurs's activity since our last
meeting, we had a vaccine clinic in Deerfield, which 52 people attended. Um, two flu clinics were held in Monagu with Walgreens. Um, one was held in Stop and in Greenfield by Stop and Shop was our host agency. And then we also had one
that's not on the agenda, but we did one the other day at the Sunderland. um assisted or not assisted living, it's um elderly housing complex um Sunderland Place I think it's called and they had
only eight but um they were happy to get anybody there because it's they they don't get a lot of participation. Um more clinics are planned for October 2025 and November 2025. Sarah's been working really hard getting Stop and
Shop to go to Shoots Berry for a um clinic. She's had tons of hiccups um getting QR codes out and QR codes having the wrong address. Um it's it's just been a big process. So,
I'm I'm hoping that they can fix this for next year. Otherwise, we may need to come up with alternative plans because we we don't want people to have a bad experience registering. We want this to be easy so that they come back next year. Um Walgreens
um is has been really good except for they just canled the clinic at the Franklin County Tech School because they didn't have enough pharmacists to give the vaccines. Um, so I, you know, it it's really hard when
we don't have the funds to be able to buy our own vaccines that we're like at the mercy of everyone else so that we can't hold the clinics exactly the way we want with the exception of the one in Deerfield which went really well. Um, everybody seemed to be happy. Um, that's
about it on that one. Um, myself and an we did a community baby shower at the Greenfield Library. There were over a hundred new and expecting mothers. It It went really well. We were able to share our new mom
and baby brochures. I was just looking around to see if I had one I could show you, but I don't see one in my reach. Um they're fantastic. We're we're getting out there into the community. Um Sarah has completed her presentation for the American Public
Health Conference. She continues home and office visits. Um, and then again receiving lots of vaccine questions from the public about the clinic that she's holding. Sorry, that was a lot. Um, any questions about what I just went over?
No. Okay. Um, we do have a stop the bleed training scheduled at Frontier. We were supposed to go yesterday, but the teacher ended up um with an illness, so we are going next week. This is um going to be a really amazing presentation. I
think we ended up purchasing three arms that um actually bleed. Um we have the tourniquets. We made little first aid kits to give out to the students because this is a um CPR and first responder course that they're doing at Frontier. So, I'm really excited about it. So,
I'll let you know how it goes next week. But, um I think it'll be good. We have a new inspector, Anna Deford. Um she is working on her foundations of public health certificate. She completed the serve safe manager. She's gone out with
Corey on a couple inspections. Um she can do food inspections at this point just because she has her serve safe but we before we actually let her go on her own. We'd like us, you know, to shadow her a bit more. Um
any questions about Anna? >> Yes, Ryan. Maybe just what's the expected timeline for her being available? >> Um, we can go out with her at any time. So, if you need help at an event or something like that in Monagu, we can
help. But I would give it probably two weeks before I'd feel comfortable sending her to an establishment on her own. >> Okay, no worries. I don't have anything that's pressing right now. I just wanted to be aware. >> Okay. >> I also wanted to know I think you already answered this question. I just completely forgot what the answer is,
but what is the status of the um shared services? I don't remember her position, but the administrative position that we have. >> Uh Mary. >> Yeah, Mary. I know her name. I just forgot what her job title is.
>> So, um Mary is 10 hours a week. She was originally hired for 19, but because of social security requirements, she needed to cut down. Um, so she will be helping me with all of the reporting to the state with like the
smart sheets, VHRC billing and things like that. Um, she hasn't been able to do a lot of that in the 10 hours. So, I'm really looking forward to having her. >> She'll do more now that I have somebody. >> Yeah, we now have a clerk as a full-time Greenfield clerk.
>> Parttime. >> Oh, yeah. Part-time. Sorry. 19 hours. She's here every day, which is exciting. Um, so Mary's kind of teaching her how to do some of those roles so that Mary can pick up more of my work. Um, >> is there a possibility that the
part-time clerk in Greenfield would be interested in being partially funded by VHRC for the remainder of those nine hours? Like the difference between >> I'm fulltime. >> Oh, I don't think she >> I don't think she can do that either because she is also on social security. >> Well, it's worth a shot. Um,
>> yes. >> I think perhaps maybe we should revisit this budget item like next year, but um >> Oh, absolutely. Yes. >> Okay, cool. >> Um, Mary will be able to go back to 19 hours January 1st. >> Oh, well, that's great. >> Yours, too. >> Yeah. Yeah. And she'll Yeah, she'll be
only mine, so >> cool. >> That that will help a little bit. >> Well, thank you. >> Yeah, no problem. Um, let's see. Um, I think I may have gotten this question answered already. Sarah has
decided to drive to the American Public Health Conference instead of flying. Um, it she figured it would be cheaper that way instead of trying to rent a car and things like that. So, she was hoping that Lever and Shootsbury could use the that would give her permission to use the $200 that they had originally said
that she could use on the flight towards gas, tolls, and hotel or whatever else she wanted to put it towards the the trip expenses. And I think um John and Norin both said that they're sure that it won't be a problem.
>> Yeah, we discussed it at the Shootsbury Board of Health meeting last night and we're fine with that. Great. Thank you so much. Um update on any open food and housing cases. I don't think we have any open
right now with anybody that's present. I do have an open um well permit out in Sunderland that I'm just waiting for a water sample and I did a housing inspection out there um after some neighbor complaints. Um
but I don't I can discuss that with Sunderland on a on a separate time. Um okay, here's one reminder that all training especially food and housing tier 1 through three need to be completed by all health inspectors
including town funded. The purpose of the state action for the public health excellence 2.0 like the safe 2.0 know is to get all health departments to provide the same level of service no matter the location. Um lever this one is coming to
you I think. So we have been informed that um Steve Ball has been criticizing the way that we have been doing housing inspections especially the house that I had condemned earlier in the year. Um,
and I think the part of the issue is that he has not been to the tier 1 through3 food and housing courses that we are all going to. And I think it's really important that we get everybody on the same page because this is why this
program has started so that we all provide the same exact services. Um, Mike, did you want to weigh in on this one? >> I'm just concerned if he's had any housing training. Um cuz when we were up there, we did the, you know, the whole
thing was about the house itself and then them living in a trailer next to the house and kind of occupying both spaces. Um which was totally not I mean it's not allowed. They're not allowed to live in a trailer over 30 days. Um they didn't have, you know, proper water and
sewer hookups. Uh the house itself was was a mess and they were partially living there just during the day and then occupying the camper at night. Um, >> Mike, can you come forward? It's hard to hear. >> So, yeah. So, the concerns were valid.
Um, and I and the building inspector for the Furcog also deemed the structure unsafe as well. So, I mean, the the building definitely should have been condemned and the trailer should have been removed. Um, so I'm not sure what his concerns were with that. Um, I've been doing this for a while and and
everything that was up there was totally out of code. Um, and again, these people in, you know, in the grand scheme of things were people that were pretty much just taking advantage of the landowner. Um, you know, they weren't up there doing work like they told her they were doing. They were pretty much just
squatting in the trailer and the house. Uh, they had temporary wire hookups, you know, extension cords going in and out. Um, all that stuff would have deemed the place condemnable. Um, so I'm not sure why he kind of pushed back on that. Um,
I'm not sure if he's just concerned that people are taking his spot or or um, you know, because I know he was concerned about some stuff in Sunderland and he said some things down there. But again, I mean, I've never met Steve honestly.
Um, I only am going by a third party what I hear from other people and the people I've worked with or people I've been doing septic up there with. Um, and I mean he might be a great nice guy. U just some of the things that I've seen he wasn't fully doing the job that I
think should have been done. >> I mean, do are you wanting a response from me to that? >> You don't have to. >> No, it's just it's it's my opinion at this time. I'm just concerned that now he's kind of coming after you guys saying things are done wrong, but there I'm just assuring you that nothing has
been done wrong. >> Well, um, we I don't know if this needs to be a collaborative discussion at this point. Um, I can get we can I can get Steve involved with this conversation and he
he can point out his his pos his vantage point which I don't think Steve will have any problem with. >> Yeah, that that would be good because it's, you know, but I think the the main point of this is that everybody needs to get the same training. That is what this
grant is about. So, if you have somebody that has not gone through tier one through three training, that is what SAFE 2.0 is requiring. >> Okay. It's tier one through three housing. >> Housing and food. >> Housing and food. >> Yeah. >> And just to be clear, I did all of my
orders to correct on this property with Bri, the training hub. Um, >> the state inspect. >> Yeah. The state inspector. So, I did it exactly the way she wanted me to, according to the state guidelines. I she she did everything with me. She reviewed my orders to correct. She did everything
with me. So I know that I did it exactly the way the state wanted it. >> If I could just offer another I don't know anything about this specific scenario. So this is just kind of a third party perspective. Um and not about Steve, just about the code issue. Uh we've dealt with similar things here
where you know there's been campers in town that have had to be condemned and essentially you know removed from properties. And there's there's also been times where the board has felt really strongly about not displacing someone for for you know kind of unusual circumstances. Um and what I I'd say is
like when you do get into that situation it's not a matter of the code saying it's okay. It's a matter of needing to have hearings or other kind of mechanisms for the board to allow that if that's something they want to do. So, for example, we had one where the board made a vote, you know, all three members
voted to essentially not continue enforcement because this gentleman like essentially had nowhere else to go. So, if you do get into stuff like that, there are mechanisms for handling it, but it's it's not something where you can, you know, you're supposed to just say like, oh, there's no violation here at all.
>> We do do that in Greenfield, too. We have a few campers that >> have a place where they dump their sewer and things like that. We can make exceptions. You know, there are we definitely do that on Greenfield as well. >> Yeah. I mean, you got to have discretion. It's just kind of being on
the same page on what we're what we're looking at because as everybody knows, codes and everything change every year almost. So, it's more of just I want to make sure we're all on the same page and we're not kind of stepping on each other saying different things because first off, that doesn't make us look good
because then people are going to be like, "Well, this inspector from this town said that and then this said that and then, you know, and then it becomes a whole thing." So, I just want us to be all on the same page and not kind of stepping over each other. >> Totally. And that's why um with the food inspections here, you know, there's been
a couple restaurants that have come back to us and been like, you know, why is Corey citing this? and we've tried to really support Corey and anything that he's, you know, doing just to make sure that we have like a unified front. >> Yeah. >> Um Yeah. >> What happened in the resolution of this
case you were referencing >> in our case? Um >> no, the condemnation, >> the people left. Um they they packed up the trailer and they ended up leaving. >> Okay. We were just bringing it up because there there are now other complaints on
the property that really doesn't have anything to do with our our complaint because ours is gone. It's you know it was >> Yep. >> Yeah. I mean housing is just it's the hardest part honestly of health to do and it's just tricky. Um and even in
just like the year that I left Massachusetts and went to Vermont um you know codes changed they they added things. They took things away. So, it's just trying to keep everyone up to date because I know especially working with some older inspectors that they, you know, they they know that it was this
way, but I'm like, you know, things change and it's just trying to keep everyone more up to date on the inspections and what we're supposed to be looking at, you know, to the current code. Do they have a computer-based interface that you have on an iPad when you go for an inspection and you check things off
or is it all done by handwriting? I mean, >> so Relevant Relevant has um a housing code, but I don't think anyone liked that. That's why you guys got rid of it. Um, honestly, it's easier to just go through, write down your observations, and then scan through the code and just
find the sections that fit and then just site those. um I just cite them in a formal letter with the with the section and then I give my brief description of what I saw and what I believe is the solution to fixing it. And I can say the tier trainings are are really well put
together. where um I had participated in some of the the the local public health institute trainings that existed you know 5 years ago and the the improvements they've made from that to now where you're working with Bri the regional trainer like really one-on-one to get to a place where you're you're uniformly applying the code has been
extremely helpful even for you know someone who's been in the field for a while. >> Yeah. I mean, I took my housing training in like 2018 and you know, so it's what it is now and compared to what it is then. Even though it's I think they still have some of the
same teachers, which is funny, but yeah, it's still it's still vastly different. And then the last thing I have the on the list is that Corey has completed the soil evaluators class. I know that he's not technically a VHRC employee anymore,
but he'll still be helping us out um until the new inspectors come up. >> He will actually be headed to Shootsberry with me after this. >> Uhhuh. >> Did Did you mention I know there was somebody that you offered a job to or we
offered >> Oh, Jim. Yes. He started after I made the agenda. Um Jim, are you here? And actually, I know it's not nine o'clock yet. Um Jim will be coming in very shortly. He um is doing his serve safe today. He started on foundations. He's
only been here for two days, but he's already gone through several foundations of public health classes. Oh, there he is. Jim. He's early. >> There you go. >> Jim, these are all of the members of the board of health from the towns that
you're going to be covering. >> Okay. Good morning, everybody. >> Morning. We have >> Yeah. Do you guys want to just do a quick introduction? >> Sure. John, >> go ahead, Ryan. >> Oh, sorry, John. Hi, Jim. I'm Ryan. I'm the director of public health for the
town of Monu. >> I'm John Hillman. I'm one of the board of health members in Leverett. >> I'm Arlene Reid and I am on the Shootsbury board of health. I'm subbing today for our uh members who usually
attend this meeting. My first time at this meeting. >> And I'm Tim Hilch. I'm a select board member and board of health member in Deerfield. >> Good morning everybody. It's a pleasure meeting you all. >> Welcome. >> Thank you.
>> And Jim is fairly new to public health, but can you just tell them a little bit about your your background? >> Yes. So um though I am fairly new mostly kind of like you know in the field um I have some some extensive background you know when it comes to academics and
along with um my own personal backgrounds um and the workforce in general which stems from um personal health um personal home health aid both on the hospital setting along with on the uh personal setting so going to people's housing I also have u some
extensive background um along with um behavior health in general. Um more than a decade in that and build for your health and also some um a little bit of of of background itself and um compliance and monitoring along with um
because I also was the HCC um um health compliance officer um for the past three to four years >> and he speaks four languages. >> Four. >> Yes, indeed.
Well, welcome aboard. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Any other questions or anything else we need to talk about today? >> Do we need to approve minutes? >> Yes, we do. Um, John sent me some edits
already. Um, so one of them is the date at the end of the Um, yeah, we fixed that. We fixed that. Mary Bordeaux is was in attendance. Um, we added that Sarah is having a flu clinic hosted by
Stop and Shop. And there was one more edit that we made. Oh, the adjournment time. We changed it to 9:15 a.m. Anybody else have any um adjustments before we vote to accept the
minutes? Okay. Does anybody want to make a motion? Make a motion that we accept the minutes with the draft suggested by John. >> Second. >> Second by Tim and Okay. Um, do we have a motion to
adjurnn? >> No, we have to vote on the minutes first. >> Oh, sorry. Wait, what did we just do? Oh, >> you just said a motion to adjurnn. >> I thought we just did the I just Oh, we
didn't say all in favor. Got it. Okay. And are you in favor, Ryan? >> Yes. >> John, >> yes. >> Um, and Tim, >> yes. >> Arlene, I would ask you, but um I >> I understand. I don't I don't have a
vote. I >> Okay. I'm sorry. Um, all in favor? Okay. Now, do we have an a motion to adjurnn? >> Make a motion to adjurnn. We do we want to set a next meeting or do we already do that? >> Um, we haven't already done that, but do
can we just do the Let me just make sure that the one that we normally do, the second Thursday is okay for next month. Let's see. Second Thursday. Oh, I'm glad you said that because I have tier three housing that day. Um,
every Thursday looks like. And that's also MHA conference week. Uh >> MHA is the 6th. First Thursday, >> first Thursday. Okay. >> Second Thursday would be the 13th. >> Okay. I am in tier 3 housing on the
13th. Could we do the 12th? Is anybody free the 12th at 8:30 a.m.? It's a Wednesday. The second Wednesday. >> Ryan says yes. I'm I'm only good, but I have to get off at 9:00. >> Okay.
>> I'm going to be in oral surgery, so I'm not available. >> Okay. Um, can we try the 19th? That's a Wednesday as well, >> a Wednesday. I have a nine o'clock Wednesday morning, so
>> you know, >> it's fine. I mean, what time is it now? It's 8:56 now. >> Yeah. So, it's it's it's do if there's not a lot, it's doable. >> Okay. >> So, either one is fine with me. >> Tim, are you around that morning? >> I don't think I can be available.
>> Okay. Um, >> are any of the Mondays good for you, Megan? >> I can do Monday the 10th. >> Works for Tam. >> Let me just make sure on the other calendar I have 800 calendars.
John, how's Monday the 10th for you? >> That's fine. >> And Tim, >> yes. >> Okay, let's do it. Monday the 10th, 8:30 a.m. I'll send out the the info. 10th 8:30.
Motion to adjurnn. >> Motion. >> Second. That was Tim that said that the second. Okay. Ryan second Tim and all in favor. Tim is a yes. John is a yes. And Ryan is
a yes. And we are going to adjourn at 8:57. >> You know, you have to include your vote also. >> Oh, I vote yes. You've >> been forgetting. Thank you. >> All right. Thanks everybody. Bye bye. >> Thank you all. Bye bye. [Music] Part: 2
Good evening and welcome to the zoning board of appeals for the city of Greenfield, Massachusetts. Today is October 9th, 2025 at 6:30 p.m. and we're meeting in city hall. Uh chair statement. This meeting is being
recorded by the zoning board of appeals. If any other persons present are doing the same, you must notify the chairperson at this time. Sir, you're record you're not recording anything. In accordance with Mass General Laws chapter 38 section 20G, no person shall
address a meeting of the public body without permission of the chair and all persons shall at the request of the chair be silent. No person shall disrupt the proceedings of a meeting of a public body. If after clear warning from the chair a person continues to disrupt the proceedings, the chair may order the
person to withdraw from the meeting. If the person does not withdraw, the chair may authorize a council or their officer to remove the person from the meeting. Um I I guess if somebody were to be disruptive online, we would be able to mute them. >> Yes. Thank you.
>> Okay. Roll call of members. So all the members, please roll call. >> Charles Roberts >> Jim W, >> Debbie Jos, >> Mark Maloney, >> and David Singer. Okay. Public hearings. Uh Madame K. First public hearing. >> Uh yes. Uh this one's continued from the
September 11th U meeting. Application of Jada La Point for property located at 2011 Hope Street, assessor's map 18, lot 24, which is located in the urban residential RA zoning district for special permit pursuant to sections
200-4.4C1 and 200-8.3 of the zoning ordinance in order to allow the keeping of 12 hens and one rooster at this location. in sitting on the panel are >> Peter Rosel >> Mark Milani
>> David Singer okay is the applicant here >> I'm on Zoom >> and who are you please >> uh Jay Le point >> nice to meet you what what's please please explain to us what's going on what this application is about >> um what the application is about is I
have 12 hens and one rooster I've had them for about eight years I've never had a complaint for my neighbor. And of course, now he's going to start talking. Just that time of night.
Um, and I would like to keep my birds to let them live out their life on the farm that they've well, you know, in a residence where they've lived their entire life since they were teeny tiny little fluffy
chicks. Um, I do not plan on replacing my chickens. Um, my rooster, um, I know Greenfield doesn't doesn't necessarily like roosters and frowns upon them. However, my rooster is my husband's
emotional support animal. He's gotten him through seven years of cancer. And right now my husband is in a rehab center after having five strokes on a ventilator and feeding tubes and the whole nine yards and doing rehab. And
when he comes home, if Star isn't here, it's going to be devastating. And there have already been a lot of changes in this house. I busted my butt over the last 69 days and
I am still about done to meet every asked of me. Um on top of visiting my husband and trying to take care of myself and you know it's been a lot. Um,
so that's, you know, what I'm asking. >> Uh, where would you be more specific uh about a little bit more about what the property is like? How big is your property? It's probably it would be under five acres if you were coming before us.
>> And uh where the hens are in relation you have a map here. Do you want to identify for us what where the roosters and the chickens are located? Uh, I did submit a map. Um, do you guys have that in front of you? >> Yes. Yes.
>> Okay. So, you can see where the coupe is. Um, that's where the chickens are. The big un unmarked thing is my house. Um, my yard is uh
50 feet across and it's a quarter of an acre and I think it's 150 ft back. Um the coupe is within with is about let's see my fence line because I have a fence which is part of my chicken
run and the other you know one the other side of my chicken run is my house. Um so my fence is 5t off the property line and then the chicken coupe is another three feet off of that. So it's the
coupe is 10 ft off the property line. Um, does that answer your question? >> Answers my question. Yes. >> Okay. >> Any other questions from board members?
>> What do you do with all the chicken droppings and us around with poop in the yard? >> I have a compost pile um that I use for my I use for I have ginormous pots that I put the chips and
all that stuff into and I compost it and I use it to grow my vegetables. And I have friends who also will come over and take it and use it in their gardens. It's great compost.
>> Is it How do you deal with I'm familiar with chicken droppings. >> Is it What do you do with the smell >> when you're starting to move that compost around? >> There isn't any. I've never in seven years had a complaint from any neighbor. In fact, when I uh when they I had
neighbors who had got the notice from you guys, they actually came over and knocked on my door and said, "Do you have chickens?" Because they didn't even know I had chickens. And I've had them for almost eight years. They They had no clue. Um they're very quiet. There's no smell.
There is an excessive amount of flies. I mean, there's just I take really good care of my chickens. >> What What brought you here to the to the ZBA? >> Uh, what brought me here is Star. Star
is my husband's rooster. Um, and I I I really hope you understand that this is an emotional support rooster. He's very attached to my husband. My husband is very attached to him. And like I
said, he was going through chemotherapy and that rooster got him through 7 years of cancer and he had a 4% chance of survival and with what he's going through now, this is public, so I really don't want to get into too much detail, but I will
get into some of it. Um, he's had five strokes. He's on a ventilator and a feeding tube in a rehab facility. We're in the process of getting him off the vent. Once he is off the vent, he's coming home, which will hopefully be soon because it
has been the longest 69 days ever. I totally miss my husband. Trying really hard to keep it together here. Um, and Star is his best friend. Um, you know, most people have emotional support dogs
or emotional support cats and we did not intend on having a rooster, but he was a Tractor Supply surprise. And he just he took to my husband. I don't understand it, but he did. He is this tiny little halfpound,
the tiniest little rooster you've ever seen. And he is just, he puffs my husband. and my husband loves him and not having him here would be absolutely devastating to my husband's recovery. That's what brings me to you. It's my
love for my husband and my love for my animals. You know, like I said, I don't plan on replacing my chickens. I want them to be able to live out their life. They're old. I mean, seven, eight years old for a chicken. It's old,
you know, and >> you know, that's Yes. Yes. >> As a I think as a followup to Peter's question, I think the question is if you've had this rooster for eight years. >> Yes. >> Which means that technically you have needed to come before us for eight
years. >> I didn't know that. >> No, I understand. But what happened in in your life or what incident created a change so that you understood that you had to come before the zoning board? What what happened?
My husband had a stroke and EMS showed up and I had to restrain my rooster as they were trying to work on him. Um because my rooster is very protective of
my husband and tried to attack a fireman which I feel really bad about but he is very protective of my husband and I had to restrain him and they said um yeah you can't have him and they called you
guys and here I am. >> Thank you. I mean thank you for the story. Sorry for what happened, but thanks. >> Where where are the where are the hens and the rooster homeed?
>> It shows that there's a coupe here, but I have a letter um from >> Yeah, those the the indoor chickens are no more. They have gone to a sanctuary. >> So, all the animals that So, the 10 hens and the one rooster all reside in the
yard. Yes, I'm I'm trying desperately to get Star to acclimate um to being an outdoor chicken um to you know, but he's he's he's struggling, but we're, you know, we're working on it.
>> So, but previous to the visit from the EMS, he they were inside. Um, yes, they were, but they are now all out in the yard with the exception of Star, who I am trying desperately to acclimate.
And I'm really struggling, but I will get it done. One way or another, he will figure it out. But he's so little and my hands are so big. They're just it's it's it's taking time. But I do have a cage for him
um that I'm going to put him out there where they can't eat him, which would be nice cuz that would be bad. Um and let him acclimate that way. >> Okay. Thank you. That's all the questions I had. >> Anybody else?
Eric, um, have there been any complaints or concerns raised by neighbors? >> No. >> No, they didn't even know he existed. >> Does the rooster in fact grow? >> Yes, he does twice a day. Every morning
and every night. Um, in fact, most of my neighbors Oh, God. I'm going to give up another neighbor. Oh, Angie, forgive me for this one. My I have a neighbor on a neighboring street. We will call it
neighboring street. Um that I can hear at my house and my neighbors can hear and they know it's not mine because of the distance. They complain about that one. They've like I said, my neighbors didn't even know I
had chickens. They had no idea at all. They were surprised. >> Any other questions for your main correspondents before correspondents? Uh, okay. So, is that all you you're are you finished now with your presentation?
>> I am. My dad is online. I don't know if he wants to add anything. Um, but yeah. >> Okay. I'm now going to go to the public. So, I'm in a room with only people's names on the screen. If you're here for this particular matter and you want to
be heard, then unmute or give us a signal that you want to be heard and I'll have to make sure that you are. So, no one on Can you hear >> chickens? Nobody online. Okay. There were people
here last meeting. Um, okay. Uh then we'll go to correspondence. If anybody wants to speak up while we're reading correspondence, that would be great. >> Um okay, so we have a memo dated August 18 from Department of Planning and Development. They have no comment or
issues with the proposed project. Um fire prevention officer has no comments or issues with the proposed project. Engineering superintendent has no comment or issues with the proposed project. Um, I do have a memo here from
Mark Snow, building commissioner, zoning enforcement officer, dated September 4th, uh, 21 Hope Street special permit application. This memo is regarding 2011 Hope Street, Greenfield. 21 Hope Street is a single family dwelling located in
the urban residential RA zoning district. Um, the applicant has filed an application for a special permit to allow the keeping of 12 hens and one rooster. Below are the comments from the inspections department. One board member should be made aware that on August 7th,
2027, the inspections department issued a zoning ordinance notice of violation for the number of chickens and keeping a rooster on the property. Notice of violation is included with these comments. Board members shall establish where the hens and roosters will be kept on the property. Currently, the animals
are living in cages inside the home. Board members may wish to impose a condition that roosters or other farm animals are not allowed. Applicants should be informed that if an accessory structure is um is constructed or erected on the property that a permit
from the inspection department is required to construct or erect an accessory structure. If a special permit is granted, board members may wish to impose a condition that the property is subject to periodic inspections by the animal inspector and/or zoning
enforcement officer or a public official having authority and jurisdiction to conduct inspections. If a special permit is granted, the board should impose a condition. The property must comply with the performance standards in section 200-6.8. If a special permit is granted, any
conditions of a special permit imposed by the board should be clearly written and enforceable. And that is probably marked now. Um Jada, I have one more question. I guess I want to understand this. You your application is for 12 chickens and
a rooster, but you said something about some animals leaving the property. Is it still for 12 chickens and a rooster? >> Yes. >> That's Thank you. Okay. Any other question? >> What What is the life expectancy of a the chicken and the rooster?
>> Uh 9 years at most. Mo, it's between five and nine years. Mine's Mine's between seven and eight years. >> And your animals are are all eight years old. >> Yes, >> I could do the math.
I don't know >> if you don't need a calculator. >> No, you don't need a calculator for that one. It's going to be a sad sad day on the farm. >> Okay, I think we're done with that. Thank you very much. And so here's the here's what we do. >> Um we have two matters. We have two
matters before us tonight. Um >> and what we do is we hear the matters first and then we take the matters in the same order that we've heard them to make a decision. usually after a short break that you're welcome to stay online and uh you know for us to make our decision. Uh I can't tell you exactly
when that will be but probably you know within the next hour and a half. >> Okay. >> Um so that's how we're going to do it. So we're going to leave you now and go on to the next matter. Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Welcome. Thank you J.
>> Madam clerk. Okay. Um, application of New Life LLC for property located at 28 High Street, assessor's map 56, lot 52, which is located in the semi-residential SR zoning district for special permit
pursuant to sections 200-4.5, C14, 200-7.6, and 2000-8.3 of the zoning ordinance in order to allow congregate housing for the handicap at this location. >> Thank you. And sitting on the panel are
>> Peter Rosnak, Jim Went, >> Debbie Joes, >> Mark Maloney, >> David Singer. Okay. Who's here? Who's here speaking for the applicant? I see attorney Ty there. Nice to meet you, sir. And are you here? >> Can you come up to the table and introduce yourself at your capacity as
the applicant? >> Um, my name is Lean Woodluff and um >> and where do you live, sir? >> I live in Towns and Mass. >> Okay. Um, and yeah, I've been uh fell in love with Greenfield about three years ago
and I uh right now currently help 23 men to stay sober and um yeah, need I can give you if you want more of a >> I think a little more would be helpful. So, I came uh >> so um Lean, I think you should let me
speak and address the the board first if that's okay, board members, just because it's my client actually, New Life LLC that filed this application for zoning board relief. They um own the property. They leased the property to Lean's company who runs a sober house there
through an through a um a doing business as a DBA called Whole Heart Recovery. So Leseawn's here as the operator to answer any questions you know specific to that operation to the extent you get you the board has questions. Um but with respect to you know the application itself it's
obviously for the benefit of the owner of the property and also they're doing it for the the ultimate benefit of the operator but so I'd like to at least make the initial presentation which will be more um global. It won't be as specific as the information that LeShan can provide to you. So, um, my client
purchased this property, I believe, in November of 2023. I don't know if the board is familiar with the property. Um, I I've seen the assessor's card and pictures of it in in in Google Maps. It's a looks like a giant house. It's over 6,000 square ft
gross area and at least 4,000 square ft of living area. Um, it's it looks Victorian style to me. Um, at some point in time I I think the the house which is clearly built as a dwelling parts of it were were used for um I think for home
offices it kind of looks like to me my client purchased it as a you know a giant single family residence um to use it for that purpose for a a single family occupancy. Um my client purchased it, leased it to Whole Heart Recovery to
run this sober house um under when they they started this operation um and took this occupancy. When wholeheartedly took this occupancy, the law was actually a little bit different. Um the laws changed since this sober house went into operation. And there's a a case that
came down from the Supreme Court earlier this year which um I I think has has kind of changed the process for sober houses operating in cities and towns. um there's obvious obviously you know cases are obviously subject to interpretation
but my interpretation of what the Supreme Court did is it said that um so that cities and towns can dictate um what a family looks like under under their definitions their local zoning. So a city and town could have a definition
within their zoning for a family that says like oh people need to be related to be considered a family. Um whereas the law previously was interpreted by the appeals court in Massachusetts which said that um cities and towns can't dictate what a family looks like. Uh uh
so if unrelated disabled people want to live like a family i.e. a eg a sober home if they want to live in a sober home environment a city or town can't say they're not a family. So in 2003, 2004, even early 2005,
the law as I interpreted it per the appeals court of Massachusetts was that unrelated disabled people could move into any single family house and live and they were to be considered a family. And then in the spring of 2005, I think
that somewhat changed and and there's an argument to be made that a city and town now has the ability to dictate what a family looks like. So therefore, sober housing may need to get permission from a city or town. And and I believe um the
building commissioner in this instance issued a violation and determined that this looked more like a a um a rooming house or some other operation. So, we determined that we needed to get um a a special permit or a reasonable
accommodation from the ZBA to continue to operate the sober house. And and I'm and I'm I'm just giving you this this background because, you know, typically a zoning board of appeals will ask me or my clients say, "Well, why didn't you get permission, you know, in 2023 or
2024?" The reason would be is that the law as at least as I interpret it has changed and permission wasn't required at that point in time and arguably permission now is required. So um my client I I believe was working with
another attorney but then finally reached out to me and we started that process to try to try to um you know back fill or shore up what's going on here. So, um, looking at the city's zoning in this instance, it allows by by
special permit congregate housing for the disabled. Individuals in recovery from substance use under state and federal law are considered disabled. Um, I don't think there's a question here and LeShawn could answer with respect to the occupants of the home, but he only
accepts people that are in recovery and pursuing their recovery and those people that would be considered disabled under the law. Um, so we think that this would be an appropriate location for approval for congregate housing for the disabled. Um, I I do want to note that the city I
I couldn't find a definition of family in the city zoning. So, this appears to be one of the municipalities in Massachusetts that has a a broad interpretation of what a family can look like. So, in the event that this board determines that this really doesn't fit
into what the board considers congregate housing for the disabled, my my clients, you know, believe it's it's the equivalent of a family because the individuals come together and live together and support each other and live in a communal environment, sharing the space, sharing the kitchen, watching TV
together, living like a family where they should or could be considered a family under um the town zoning ordinance. Um, and then lastly, I guess the the the other thing that we're looking for in the event a special permit isn't approved or this board
feels that we don't fit the exact definitions for this special permit. Um, my client's looking for reasonable accommodation under federal law and state law. And and what that means is the ADA and the FHA allow a zoning board of appeals to
alter, amend, or adjust their their zoning requirements um to allow access to housing for people that are in recovery from substance abuse, disabled people, and and therefore um provide a reasonable accommodation so that they can continue to um live in this home,
which is um beneficial to their recovery. So um we're looking for a special permit. We think it's a family, but in the event the board disagrees with those things, we're looking for a reasonable accommodation to continue with this occupancy.
That's all I have for now. >> Um, do you have our zoning bylaws in front of you? >> I I have some of the definitions and some of the information. I don't have the whole thing printed out. >> Well, if you could get if you could access our zoning bylaws online.
>> Yeah. and look up in the definitions lodging boarding house. >> Yeah, I have that in front of me. >> All right. Well, buried in there is kind of a definition of how the city looks at uh evaluating whether or not, for
example, the type of place that you're that your client and the lei have is a lodging house or a you know or a um single unit more or less. >> Yeah. So, the reason we don't think we fit into the lodging boarding house
definition is two reasons. One, I think it's maybe four or five lines down it says it not shared as a single housekeeping unit. So, the city doesn't have a definition of a family. And I think the way the city's getting around
that is by by putting in this lodging boarding house definition that it doesn't include um single housekeeping units. So our argument is is this is a single housekeeping unit. This is these are people that live together, support each other, live like a family. Um also
if you go to the bottom of the definition, it excludes congregate housing. It's um the last two words in the definition is specifically excluded. So this is congreate housing for the disabled. It is under 48 section 3 of
the general laws. Uh, excuse me. How many family members do you have in the building? >> I have 22 >> family. >> And two of those are I have an operations director and then a house manager. So, two of them are working
full-time and help support uh the family. >> That's your maximum number you can have there. >> Yes. >> Yeah. that Don I mean you might you can explain this probably a little bit more but the house is MASH certified correct >> it is MASH certified correct
>> yeah I don't know board's familiar with that but but MASH you know is an organization it's a voluntary certification program that's funded mostly by the department of public health and um the reason for the program is to try to get sober houses to have
minimum standards in addition to those that are imposed by like the building department health department. Um, so MASH does their own inspection. They have their own requirements for sober housing. There's a grievance process which allows neighbors, occupants,
anyone to make a complaint regarding the occupancy of the house and Nash will go in there and make sure the house is, you know, up to snuff and up to code from their perspective. They're not they're not superseding what the town can do, but it's it's, you know, from their perspective. It's another layer of
oversight. And MASH is part of that goes in and determines under the building code from their perspective, you know, whether square footage requirements are met in bedrooms and in the entire house to allow a certain occupancy. So they go in there and measure um bedroom sizes and make sure that that there's
compliance with the sanitary code. So that's how that number is established. Right, Lean? >> Correct. Um, anybody else? I have I have a question, but I'll let others know if they do. today. No, >> this is a residence. Is it code
compliant as a residence? I mean, are all the receptacles properly installed according to electrical code? Are there smoke detectors in all the spaces? I mean, I I think I saw a document from the building official that had a list of things that would need to be done if it were congregate, but some of those are
also applicable to a residence. >> I'm sorry. I'm going to I'm going to tail on with Peter and ask the question, add on to his question. So, there's different lanes that it seems like you can go to get what you want from this.
It seems to me that the way this came before us is that you went in there, your client went in there in 23 and started this use without letting any anybody know in a public manner, either the building inspector or the fire
department or even just wherever in city hall you tell people that you're making a change of use. So, one of my questions which I'll ask that separately. I want Peter's question to continue is and then the building inspector uh we have an we have a we have a uh
a memo from the building inspector and he claims that um in October of 24 McKenzie Engineering was hired to go through the building to evaluate the building as a lodging boarding house or um as congregate housing and put in a
you know there's there's a there's a multi-page report, which I have the last page of, that has seven important things that need to be done in order for you to comply with their requirements. You have the fire chief having a whole list of things that need to be done in order to
measure up to his requirements. So, what how do you stand on this? Are you coming before us and telling and asking us to say it's okay to be congregate housing? And if we do, do you is your client intend to follow that list of requirements from the building inspector
and the fire chief? I think we need to know now if that's the path you're on in coming before us for a special permit. >> I I think I think the short answer is yes. The long answer is that I've advised my clients and they're well aware that they need to do three things.
They need to get zoning approval from this board. If that's obtained, then they need to comply with the building code requirements, which is separate. They need to apply for a change in use and do everything necessary under the code to bring the building up to code for the approved use. So, if the
approved use is congregate housing for the disabled, under the building code, there is a use called congregate housing. They then need to have an architect or engineer do a review of the building and say congregate housing for
this building requires X Y and Z. Do these things. And then separately they need to get approval from the fire department for uh to have to have this many occupants. They need a sprinkler system and a fire alarm system that reports to the fire department. And
they're aware of that and they're prepared to do that also. but they aren't going to spend the money to put in a sprinkler system and to do a code analysis and to pursue a change in use if they're not approved from a zoning perspective. >> Okay. Does that help you? Does that help you?
>> Yeah, I again I I I understand that. But if you're if you if you want to go down the path of it being a residence, there's still things that the building official found in there that if you're going to make it more have more people live in it under new construction, you have to have
GF art ground float protection in bedrooms. You have to have GFIs in kitchens and, you know, restrooms, that kind of stuff. I'm not sure that put Dakota's analysis scientific, they're going to get issued a permit to have a big residential
property. those things need to be met and I would think we would condition that if we go down the residential path if if it's the other path then it would be much more hiring an engineer and doing a you know a code review. So in either case I think we'd be stipulating certain conditions even if it's a
residence and they need to know that's part of that condition I would look to seek out >> and I think attorney you're accepting that those conditions. >> Yes. If this board said, "We're approving this as congregate housing subject to compliance with the code for
congregate housing," then my client then has to determine through the appropriate professional what work needs to be done under the state building code for congregate housing. I still think it's an R3. Um, but that's for, you know, that's not for me to determine. That's for an architect or an engineer to to determine and then present that to the
building official Mark Snow and have them approve this the work the scope of work that needs to be done to bring it up to code and then separately they need to do that. I know with sprinklers and alarms is both the building department and the fire department take a look at it but they need to get the system
approved by both of them and installed and we're hoping that if this board approves it as Congret housing then they'll go through that process. We'll establish a timeline to get it done and understanding that it needs to be done in you know a fairly quick manner for
the safety of the residents. So now my question why why did it take two years for you to come before us when uh when there should have been some public interaction back in 2023 or
whenever you started uh the use. >> Yeah. you know, as previously expressed, I don't I don't think as the law stood previously, I would have told my clients if they came to me in 2023 or 24, even early 25, you don't need to get zoning approval. I would have told them that.
I've told many people that back then. >> Can you explain why you would have given that advice? Because the appeals court decision, which was the the the law at that point in time, said that under Mass General Law 48 section 3, congregate housing for the disabled needed to be
treated the same as a single family occupancy by every city in town. So therefore, no approval was required. In fact, I've I I am the one that had that case before the appeals court. I am the one that had a prior case in federal court where a federal court judge said
under 4A section 3 I had the case against city of Fall River it's discrimination to require um to require a sober house to get special permission in light of 48 section 3. But now that kind of changed because the Supreme
Court gave a little different interpretation this spring. So So now there's there's more of a question as to whether or not you need to get approval. So now I would probably tell people something different. I'd say maybe you want to go get zoning approval. It's a little more unclear at this point in
time. Um but that does not excuse them from getting the change in use, complying with congregate housing requirements, code requirements, and it does not excuse them for getting sprinklers. And if they had come to me, if I had known about it, I would have told them, you don't need to get zoning
approval. You need to put in a sprinkler and alarm, and you need to get the change in use. But they didn't come to me. Instead, they did what they thought they could do and Mark Snow's issued a violation to them that they can't do that. >> So, are you representing to us that if we were to grant this special permit and
we were to uh impose conditions as we've recited and further even more that are common? >> Sure. that you represent that your client will post haste get on it and get that facility up to speed with these
with the building code and the and the fire regulations because that's a real it just to give you the permit with conditions is not enough uh I don't think at this point. So what can you represent to us about that? >> Um that's my client's intention. I
believe my client's representative may be on Zoom. if he wants to represent his intentions, he can do so. Are you >> Andrew? I can I can speak on that. Um, we've actually already are um working we have already had impact fire at the house. So, this is something that I was
already um in we were already in process of uh we should have a contract by the end of next week. Um, and we've already had uh the engineers that drew out the plans. Um, the electrical uh and the the electrical company that would be putting
in the full-fledged fire panel. Um, so yeah, all of this is something we're absolutely um, you know, >> do you have any type of working system right now in there? >> We we just just uh what would be okay for residential. >> Okay. >> And so you you can represent that you have the financial resources to follow
up with all these conditions. >> We do. And can you give me a timeline, a reasonable timeline that this could be implemented? >> I think that would be dependent upon um a lot of other factors. Um >> I think >> contractor and the fire department when when we could actually open up the road and
>> that's the big issue, Leon, is is is they close the roads. It might be November 15th, >> right? >> They you can't open up the road past a certain point and I believe that's like November 15th or something like that. So typically typically for the for the
water for the sprinkler they got to tie into the main >> Oh because of the asphalt plants. >> Okay. But but if we were to impose on you that you have to do this as soon as possible, would that be acceptable?
>> It would be. >> Have you gotten quotes for your fire protection yet? Fire sprinklers and >> Yeah, we know it's going to be outrageous. >> Yeah. Um, I have I have a question. Um, so New
L New Life LLC owns the property and you're helping to run it. So, um, is is this the only property like this that New Life LLC owns? Is this your first experience with this? >> So, so New Life LLC doesn't run sober
houses. New Life LLC owns real estate. So they they leased this they're leasing this property to Lean's company because Leseawn wanted to run a sober house. So New Life doesn't run sober houses. They just they're a real estate company. They're >> And is this your first experience in
running one? >> Um I was uh at a prior um I was at a prior location in town. um we didn't agree on how uh there was some integrity issues and I
fell in love with the area and I still wanted to do something and that's when I reached out to um I didn't have the finances um on my own to be able to do it. Um but I was still committed to this community. I lost my brother like four and a half about 5 years now uh from
addiction. I'm 12 years clean. Um, so it means a lot to me and that's uh that was what really got me into it. Um, but I didn't see eye to eye with the other um organizations. So I um still had a
passion to look for this area that I was out here and that's where I came in play and there was a lot of things I didn't know you know. >> So this is your first experience trying to get something like this going? >> Absolutely. You've been running for almost going on two years now. All
right. Thank you. >> So, could you explain for the board what goes on there? Uh, who the who the occupants are? I mean, I don't want to violate anyone's privacy, but just generally just just systemically what happens there, how people come in and
out, timelines, how people live there. you know, the definition talks about um uh what's this you know that they that they they they have a single housekeeping kind of a setup. Correct. >> So, can you describe how that's done?
Just give us a a little narrative. >> So, as far as the uh the group of people, I mean, it varies. Um, you know, we have, uh, we work with probation, parole. Um, we also work with, uh, you
know, I've had lawyers and of police officers that were mandated by the court to be at the house as well. Um, so it's not so much uh, it's it's a a mixed bag as far as how the operation goes. Um, you know, in order to come into the
house, you have to have a clean urine. Um, there is zero um, you know, zero tolerance. So no THC or anything is allowed. Um MATS is okay. Um you know we do uh multiple screens a week. Um you
know as far as the the you know we do multiple meetings a week. We you know um we come together which I run. I'm out there multiple times a week. So I'm not just absent. Um I actually run the meetings. Um and you know we uh celebrate the wins, the losses, the
whole nine. And you know, we're just uh you know, trying to um you know, bring about healing in and and and you know, in these uh you know, tough times that they're facing. Um as far as the like as far as how the house runs, everyone has a chore. Um everyone plays a part, you
know, um we have on Fridays where we have the everyone chooses who's going to cook the meal and we get together and you know, uh you know, we sit together and eat, you know. So there's there's that aspect. Um you know I'm not going
to print this halo picture like there's you know uh in recovery um you know when we do have a relapse um uh I have plans in place where I don't just kick them out um on the street um you know we have
detoxes that we work with. We have um you know uh places that we you know we would bring them um if that's something they choose. It's still a choice. Um, you know, but I we've always leave them with hope and then we would welcome them
back with the re-entry plan. I have an operations director which oversees the house manager. Um, and you know, he's been uh six years clean. House manager is uh going on three years clean. Um they all have, you know, um you know,
part of that process was really just finding someone that um you know, in the in in that could be a leader in that sense and you know deescalate because sometimes emotions do get high um you
know with you know that many men together that are all um you know going through something. Um, so you know, but overall as far as our neighbors, as far as the the community, I mean, you know, um, have Debbon here, you know, part of
the, um, you know, I'm a member of the opioid task force in Franklin County. Like, I'm committed to this area. I'm really invested in, uh, recovery and doing it right. Um, and yeah, that's part and >> thank you. >> You know, in a scoop,
>> is there someone on site all the time? all the time >> from your from you folks, right? There's somebody an employee, >> two onsite living managers. Yeah. So, one's the operations director and I kind of undid that because he, you know, kind of oversees the house manager, but it's just always better to have two people in
that that case, but that Yes. I >> And their training is done back through MASH. Is that does MASH make sure that you have people of a certain quality? I mean, >> correct. Absolutely. Narcan certified, deescalation certified. Yes. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Justin, what's the average stay for your
clients? >> That's actually been um it's actually been a lot more than it ever has been. And I think it's due to the lack of housing in the area. Um I got guys that have been with me since we opened. >> Wow. >> Yeah. And they're staying clean, you
know, and I don't want to put a time limit on someone soiety when they're doing so well. Um but I don't I would probably say I got 10 people that's been with me since opening. Um, yeah. >> So, even though it's supposed to be a
90day sort of recycling of people, that's not the way >> you would hope. I mean, that's that's the goal to try to get someone stabilized and on their feet and ready to, you know, hit the ground running, but just not always the case. You know, I've also got guys that have been with me multiple times.
>> Yeah, understood. Any other questions? >> Do you have car? Yes, ma'am. Um, I just want to state that even though I'm not sitting on the board um right now that I am a a butter technically for the property. So, I am recusing myself from
Miss Scott. Okay. Thank you, Eric. Note that on the record. All right. So, we have uh I'm going to go I think I'm going to go to the public first and then I'll go to the respondent. Anybody Mark, you have anything? I I can't see you. >> No, I'm good. Thank you, D. >> Okay. I'm going to Is there anybody here
that wants to speak? Okay, let's start with you. You're Can you stand up? >> Sure. So, my name is Sheila McNav and I live at 255 street across the street. >> And I know Derek. I'm not sure.
>> Yes, Derek is a he's an operation. >> He's the operations. He's wonderful. >> Anytime I've had a question, he's always, you know, come right up. He's been very forthcoming and his dog wants to eat me, but he's okay.
>> He's a little weirder upstairs. >> Yeah. >> No, we've had no problems at all. >> You're directly across the street, right? >> Across the street in the brown house 25. >> So, you're supporting the application? >> I am supporting the application. I've
also had people in recovery and I've had folk in there that died from overdose. So, I understand your mission, >> but um again, I really want to reiterate that Derek has always, you know, any
questions I've had, any concerns, um which haven't been many. Maybe one, somebody was out there. >> Richard Derek, that's not going to fly. I took care of it. So that was one and two. I
miss >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. >> Okay, we're going to go to the big screen. I don't see any hands up. Oh, I see Deborah Mclofflin. Hi, Deborah. >> Hey there. Um, Chairman Sanger, how are you?
>> Fine. >> And everyone on the board, thank you so much um for holding this hearing. My name is uh Deborah Mclofflin. the coordinator of the opioid task force for Franklin County and the North Quaban region. And I just wanted to comment that uh Lehan uh has been a member of
the opioid task force um for uh several actually for two years now um plus or minus a few months um for weeks and uh he's been a very active um member uh of our evidence-based work um particularly our housing and workforce development
committee uh that convenes on a regular basis where we kind of share information, resources and other practices to support efforts like Lashons and others across our 30 communities that we serve. Um and clearly the the important uh u work that
you all do to make sure that everyone is safe, we fully support um and also support LSAN's and other efforts to really create community for people who are uh in various stages of recovery um you know as they u work to put their
lives you know back together. Um, so I just wanted to uh show my support uh for the important work that LeShan and his team are doing um to really support those who've been impacted by addiction in our community. Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
>> Thanks. Thank you. Any anybody else online that would like to speak? >> Okay. Thank you. Uh any other questions from either of these gentlemen from the board? I guess the only thing I would add is my
clients confirmed with to me that they have the financial resources to put in the sprinkler system and do these these code upgrades that are required. >> Thank you for the record. Good. Um, nobody else. Okay. I guess that Thank you very much both of you. So,
same thing holds true. We you're second in line. So, we'll do the chickens and roosters first and then >> correspondence. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, >> it doesn't matter. But that's what we'll do. But we're still I'm not closing the hearing yet. Go ahead. There's a lot of correspondence. Uh >> um All right. So, we have a memo from
Mark Snow building commissioner dated September 25th, 2025. And this is a memo regarding 28 High Street in Greenfield. The applicant has filed an application for special permit to allow congregate housing for the handicapped at this location. Below are
a list of documents and other comments from the inspections department pertaining to the inspections department involvement with this property. Number one, the initial complaint description and inspection report dated 10724. Number two, existing building narrative report prepared by McKenzie Engineering
Company Incorporated dated October 21st, 2024. This narrative is done by a registered design professional in accordance with the Massachusetts State Building Code. This narrative describes the occupancy and the use of this property as defined by Massachusetts State Building Code 9th edition. There
is a synopsis of required work on the last page of the narrative report. Number three, letter dated November 21, 2024 pertaining to Greenfield zoning ordinance and the notice of violation in accordance with the Massachusett State Building Code 9 provision issued by the
inspections department. Number four is a cease and desist order issued by the inspections department dated July 25th, 2025. Number five, a condition should be imposed that requires a property owner/licant to obtain the required permits within a specified time, i.e.
building, electrical, and plumbing. Number six, a condition should be imposed that requires a property owner and or applicant to obtain the required certificate of occupancy from the inspections department. Number seven, if a special permit is granted, any conditions of the special permit imposed
by the board should be clearly written and enforceable. um memo from the engineering superintendent dated September 3rd, 2025. They have no comment or issues with the proposed project. This is a long one.
Um we have um an email here from Alex Pooly dated September 26, 2025. And let's see. Alex is the captain um EMTT of the fire department for the city of Greenfield.
>> Fire prevention officers. >> Fire prevention officers. Fire department. Okay. Thank you. Um, the fire department has reviewed the site plan for 28 High Street and provides the following comments regarding potentially applicable
requirements under MGL148 and 527 CMR 1.00. MGL chapter 148, fire prevention. Um, sections 26B, automatic fire warning and smoke detection systems in certain
buildings, enforcement and appeals. Uh this section requires approved automatic fire warning systems in residential buildings or structures not exceeding 70 feet in height that erected or substantially altered. Such systems must include automatic smoke detection.
Um excuse me must include automatic smoke detection. The head of the fire department enforces these provisions. Agreed parties may appeal interpretations, orders, or failures to act within 45 days of the board of appeals as provided in the state
building code and section 23 of chapter 23B. Sections 26 C, certain public accommodations, automatic smoke or heat detectors. Apartment houses with six or more dwelling units, hotels, boarding or lodging houses, or family hotels not
regulated by section 26A or 26B must be equipped with automatic smoke or heat detectors according to the rule and regulations of the board of fire prevention regulations. The head of the fire department enforces these provisions. Sections 20 section 27B
definitions applicable to sections 26D26F approved monitor battery power smoke detector. A battery activated smoke detector with a monitored battery that provides a distinctive audible trouble signal for at least 1 minute for seven
consecutive days before the battery fails. The unit must also produce an an alarm signal for at least four continuous minutes at the battery voltage where a trouble signal is normally obtained followed by 7 days of trouble signal operation. Monitored batteries meeting these specifications
must be clearly identified on the unit near the battery compartment. Approved primary power smoke detector. A smoke detector permanently wired to an alternating current electrical power source or connected via an underwriters laboratory approved board with a strain
relief and plug retainer. Power supplies must operate the alarm signal for at least four continuous minutes and all such detector systems must comply with the Massachusetts electrical code. Common hallway. A separately enclosed common corridor or space providing
access to required exit ways in a residential building or structure. Separate sleeping area. The areas of a dwelling unit containing bedrooms or sleeping rooms. Bedrooms or sleeping rooms separated by other use areas i.e. kitchens, living rooms, but not
bathrooms are considered separate sleeping areas. Section 26H. lodging or boarding houses automatic sprinkler systems in cities or towns accepting this section. Every lodging or boarding house must be protected throughout with an adequate system of automatic
sprinklers in accordance with the state building code provided sufficient water and pressure exist. If a water discharge poses a danger, the head of the fire department may permit other prescribed fire suppressed systems. The head of the fire department enforces these provisions. Lodging house or boarding
house means a house where lodgings are let to six or more unrelated persons excluding fraternity houses, dormitories, rest homes, or group residences licensed or regulated by the Commonwealth. Lodging or boarding houses subject to this section must be equipped with
automatic sprinklers within 5 years of the city's or town's acceptance of this act. Agreed parties may appeal interpretations, orders, or requirements within 45 days to the board of appeals of the fire safety commission. as provided in section 201 of chapter 6
527 CMR 1.00 Massachusetts comprehensive fire safety code 10.3.4 change of use or occupancy classification 10.3.4.1 4.1 amendment. Any change from one use or occupancy classification to
another whether or not physical alteration is needed must comply with the building code. Additionally, any features of fire protection, fire protection systems and means of ecrest required by the fire or building code must comply with chapter 12 features of fire protection. Almost
chapter 13 fire protection systems and chapter 14 means of egress. Finally, it is currently unclear what the occupancy classification of the property is. However, it appears it should fall under one of the following definitions from the fire code. 3.1 3.3.199.9
dormatory, a building or space providing group sleeping accommodations of more than 16 non-family members in one room or a series of closely associated rooms under joint occupancy and single management with or without meals but without individual cooking facilities.
3.3.199.2 Apartment building, a building or portion thereof containing three or more dwelling units with independent cooking and bathroom facilities. 3.3.199.17 lodging or rooming house. A building or portion thereof that is not a one or two
family dwelling providing sleeping accommodations for 16 or fewer people on a transient or permanent basis without personal care facilities with or without meals but without separate cooking facilities for individual occupants. Depending on this classification the
correspondent section of chapter 20 occupancy fire safety would apply. 20.8 hotels dormitories 20.9 apartment buildings 20.10 10 lodging or rooming houses and then please let me know if any additional information is needed.
>> Thank you. Anything else? >> Um wasn't there a letter or was that just wasn't there? I have a letter think >> or it was like a >> Oh, okay then. We're good.
>> Yeah, I think you read all the course. >> I was confused by that was out there. Okay. something that just got >> done. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, uh again, we will uh we have we will speak on these matters in the order that
they were presented. So, if you want to wait around online and you want to wait around here, that's fine. We should, you know, we're going to probably we're going to go over one more thing, take a break, and then start to deliberate. >> Okay. So, I'm closing the hearing now. Thank you very much, both of you. You can stay, but it's up to you. You don't
have to stay, but you can. >> Thank you. Um, you're welcome. Um, all right. The next matter, uh, Madam Clerk, now I'd like I need a little help on this, Eric. So, I think we should I think we should make a motion to
continue this the uh Noble Home, right? >> Um, it's on the agenda. >> It's not on my agenda. >> And the one on the west side is not on that agenda either. So, maybe if there was a revised agenda and you
because it's it's already scheduled with the court. You don't need to do anything with noble homes. No thanks. Thank you. >> No action on Noble Homes. >> I like that. >> So, you want me to take a recess and then we'll come back or you want to go straight through? >> Straight through.
>> Straight through. >> Y. >> All right. Tough crowd today. All right. Let's uh start with the um Dickens and Brewster.
Can we hear a motion? I'll make a motion to approve the application of Jada Le Point for property located at 2011 Hope Street Assessors Map 18, lot 24, which is located in Urban Residential RA zoning
district for a special permit pursuant to sections 2-4.4C1 4C1 and then 200-8.3 of the zoning ordinance in order to allow keeping of 1210 one rooster at this location with the following conditions.
Second, discussion go for it. >> One of the would be once the chickens are no longer they don't get placed. So are you are you willing to are you willing to approve
this motion if these conditions are met? Are you adding >> No, I'm just you know if we had if we had I'm just suggesting the conditions I have the conditions I would be amenable to >> Okay. So the the building inspector had a set of conditions right? >> Yeah.
>> Besides the generally so I think there was a set of conditions there I'd like to incorporate. >> Yeah. You're I think you're talking about the fact that once as each of these animals dies, there's no replacing them. Well, except for what's allowed under the zoning bylaw. So, she could
she could put she could have up to 10 chickens, but not not not over 10 and not the rooster without >> She make a condition that they be all kept outside and the rooster not let out till 8:00 in the morning. >> Well, I like the idea that um Mark Mark Snow's recommendations were pretty
specific. One was the animal inspection officer would come there regularly. Um there were other conditions I remember right that the co anything that was built there had to be up to code. It had to be considered an accessory >> unit. >> Um um >> that's all automatic anyways. It didn't
really need to be a condition. >> We can incorporate his you know just to be >> I mean he wanted to he wanted to um he recommended that we establish where the hens and roosters be kept. They were it was his understanding they were currently in the home. So the condition
be that they are kept outside and not in the home. >> The board of health issue too. >> I don't know if Jada Jada can you speak to the board for a second? >> Yeah. Unmute.
>> She may have muted her. >> She needs to unmute herself. Can you unmute yourself? >> There you go. Let me let me ask the question, please. I'm going to give you a short Normally I don't go back, but I wanted to just be clear.
>> Okay. >> Where for the eight years until Where have the chickens and roosters lived? >> Um, with the with the exception of a couple of them, they've been out in a coupe. They've been outside. >> Okay. Have there been any of these? Has
the rooster lived in the house? He is in the process of being moved outside. >> So outside completely not in the coupe either. >> Oh well obviously in the coupe. I mean I don't want him. >> That's outside. I don't know. I don't know anything. Just I'm
>> never never had a rooster so I don't know anything about Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. You're welcome. >> Go back to mute please. >> I'm trying. >> Okay. All right. Go ahead. Uh the issue of
being consistent with our own rulings has come up before and setting precedent has come up before. I have a concern that this application that we would be setting a precedent that it's okay to have a rooster when the uh zoning zoning
law clearly defines u poultry farm not to include roosters. I have two neighbors who have chickens and on multiple occasions um they've gone out and gotten replacement cookings from different
places, Home Depot, Farmers Exchange, and what inevitably happens is they're supposed to get all chicks, but they get one or more roosters in one occasion. eight roosters and they were nice enough to get rid of them promptly at when we
raised a complaint. But it I'm concerned that if we approve this application to allow a rooster, that's setting a precedent that other uh people who raise chickens in uh residential
areas would uh less than 5 acres would be then expecting that they would be approved to have a rooster. since we've made that exception. >> Okay, a good point. Um I just go ahead,
please. I I I was informed to exactly your point that each appeal we have, we rule on our discretion for that specific case. So that even though we make this ruling, that doesn't necessarily carry over to any other appeal that comes
before us. So again, I I've heard that in the past. >> That's a good point. I was about to state that, but you did yourself first >> because I I think Eric may have told me that a couple years ago or someone someone informed >> I myself have brought up concerns that to make sure you know to be fair and
make sure we're consistent, but Eric also reminded me that everything has to be viewed in its specific instances because it's a special permit. >> We must review the merits of each application. >> Each the merits of each application will be different. And I think the analysis
of this situation is what is challenging, Eric. >> I think that's I understand that. >> So to so I'm going to ask you to open up your mind this way. >> The president situation may not be the right way of framing it, but I but I
think the consistency of our decisions is important. Okay. So we don't necessarily have a legal obligation to do it which is what Peter was addressing but we've always spoken and I've spoken about the fact that I think consistency from us is what people expect. So this the trick in all these situations when
they're when we when we feel some impulse to make a different decision than we made in others is to find those set of factors that make it different. So why would so underlying this seems to be a sense maybe that we should say okay but the question is why are we saying I
mean just we have to we should say it out loud why we might be saying it's okay is it because uh of her husband uh wanting the rooster needing the rooster for his health and what might happen if he didn't have the rooster is that a special circumstance is uh the fact that
the chickens are eight years old and if they live to nine and we grant it we're talking about one more year of having this and then it would it wouldn't happen again versus other situations where the roosters were younger and and then the third thing is and again I we told people last meeting that this was
going to happen today and I don't know if people were there last time to complain but there are there isn't anybody here now telling us no letters or anything that says that this is a problem. So it so again I'm just putting out the idea that we're not being inconsistent by saying under these
circumstances >> it might be warranted to say okay with special with the conditions that Eric and I think Peter imposed that I just mentioned isn't inconsistent with the two women who had to get rid of the chicken after having it for a year
because that a rooster I mean because number one there was a complaint number two the rooster was young the circumstances were different so I I would have to think that If one or more people came to this meeting and were adamant, especially the next door neighbors, that the rooster could not stay there
consistently, I would think, right, we would have to pay attention to that. But because that hasn't happened, let's just say for purposes of the discussion that that's different as is the age of the chickens is different. So the do so the question is do the and and the fact that
her husband whose name lose me escapes me >> I think his name is Eric. Eric, another Eric that Eric, you know, again, we're not putting people on the stand. They're not under oath. They're not signing affidavit. I mean, we're taking people at their word, but this is a different
it's it's a special circumstance. So, are those factors that everyone I'm putting them out just to start a conversation. Are those things So, continue with the conversation. That's that's that's kind of the beginning of where I'm thinking. Yes. >> I'm in full agreement with what you just said. I'm I'm inclined to support the
application with these conditions, but there's just this little thing in the back of my head that also has a sense of, well, perhaps the lack of complaints over the years is about the fact that the rooster's been inside and what happens over the course of the next year when the rooster transitions to
full-time outdoor living. Uh, and and might there actually start to be complaints in 90 days when that bad boy is outside morning and evening. Um, and I don't I don't recall Greenfield really having the strongest noise ordinances to fall back on. So, it creates a question
for me and it's not necessarily a deal breakaker, but I there is a piece of me that just kind of wonders, well, is the lack of knowledge, oh, I didn't even know that you had chickens because the rooster has been primarily housed indoors. Uh and so we could be granting
a special permit, you know, based on kind of a different situation than what's been happening retroactively and the lack of resident feedback might might look really different once the roosters are full time. I listen to two
two rooster complaints and I have a house across the street that has roosters and we >> I have one too. >> Alert me in the morning and alert me at night. So I've sat here trying to distance myself from that making a holiness. So just from a consistency
point of view kind of hard not to take that into consideration when I'm making a decision. I I heard what David said and I agree that there are special circumstances here that uh warrant an exception.
Do we have any kind of leeway or ability to do anything about what I was just mentioning of it's possible that there could start to be a series of complaints over the next 60 to 120 days? >> Like is there anything that we can do in terms of a condition to to mitigate that
or if that then this or is it just we've just granted the permit and now that bad boy can throw day and night and that's just what it is. >> Who do the complaints get filed to? There are if there's a complaint mark >> building inspector. >> Yeah, the building inspector would receive the complaint. But my question
is, >> is there a reason why the rooster has to be outside? It's a small little thing. People have pets, all kinds of pets in their houses. What's the reason the rooster has to be outside? >> I assume that was like Greenville health code. I just assumed that that was a >> But is there any correspondence that
says that it's a health boat and it has to be outside? I have no I have nothing in here that um it it did um Mark did ask that we ver should establish where they will be kept on the property. It doesn't say it must he doesn't say make
sure it's outside. >> I mean the board could condition that all chickens be outside. They don't grow and then the rooster be allowed to be inside and it would solve the issue. It's only got one year >> left rowing hours if nothing else. No, I think generally that the rooster
lives as inside as a pet is what Eric Tur is saying. >> And why can't it be inside? >> Unless animal inspector says that's dangerous or >> Well, we can Well, we can I mean, part of his recommendation is that the
inspector goes by. If >> there's an issue, the inspector will point it out at the time of inspection. But there there's been no input from the animal control officer on this shoot. I don't think so. See correspondence. >> Yeah. The animal control officer is now a different scenario. So I don't even
know how to connect with the it's not the same scenario as it was before was the staff person in Greensville. You just sent him a memo. Now I have to reach out to the I'm not even sure. So I don't even know how to get in control. I mean I'm sure I can figure it out but it's not a standard thing now. Let me ask Jada. Can you come back on for a
second? Yes. >> So, the rooster has lived in the house the whole time. >> Yep. >> And is that >> he does go outside to graze during the day? You know, we don't live in a box.
We do go outside in our backyard and he does go outside. >> Well, so do dogs and cats, but I'm just saying that in terms of where the rooster is kept generally is in the house. Correct. Huh? >> Like I said, I've been trying to acclimate acclimate him to being
outside, but he weighs a half a pound and I have rather large chickens and well, it's going a little rougher than I expected it to go, but you know, if that's where he needs to be, that's where he needs to be. But you know, but
he's he's he's no bigger than a parake. He sees no bigger than a Well, I'm trying to think of a bird that people keep. Maybe a really really small. I mean, he's a half a pound. He's a cockatu.
>> Why are you moving him outside if he's lived in the house for the past eight years? Like, why move him as part of this permitting process? >> Because the board of health told me I had to. >> Okay. >> They didn't tell me why. They just said I had to. And I looked and I don't see
any law that says I I mean people have birds in their house. >> People have gigantic parrots in their house that make a lot more noise than he does and say a lot more foul things than he does. You know
>> Jada was that uh directive oral or was it writing from the board of health? Did they just make a statement or did they actually >> It was not a very f good first meeting. I was very my hackles were up. My husband was just you know had had
multiple strokes and he showed up and it was not a very good first impression. It was horrible. And you know I did have more than one tractor supply surprise which I have sent to a sanctuary and said you know if
I and asked him if I could keep just Star because Star is my husband's emotional support animal. >> Jada. Sorry to interrupt. What? What? What Peter's asking is, were you given a letter that said that you couldn't have it or somebody just told you ver orally
verbally that the ch that the rooster couldn't stay there? >> He said the rooster couldn't stay here unless I applied for a special permit, hence me being in front of you. He did not say thank you. Good. I've got everything.
Okay. >> But I like the idea of solving Eric's problem by what Eric was suggesting is to allow the third less than a year less. Keep it inside. Yeah. >> Has a far more nasty bird than that rooster.
>> And it's not a rooster, right? >> It's not a rooster. >> Improvement is to have the rooster on the >> given the size of the animal. It's >> a tiny thing. >> Okay. So, let's let's let's bring it in. So, what So, what are the conditions? If we approve it, what are the conditions? The conditions are the the
suggestions of the memo from Mark dated what? >> September 4th, >> 2025. >> So, it's subject to those conditions. The conditions that he imposed he he suggested if we were to grant the
special permit, right? There are some where he says if you are to grant the special permit, do this, this, and this. And then the specificity that he's looking for is the idea that the that the rooster will live in the house
in the home, right? That's a specific condition that he didn't recommend. We're going to recommend >> correct. >> So, is that all we want to say is that the rooster will live in the home. Anything other words? >> Is that why do we need to specify that? Like if it's an option for Jada to bring the
rooster inside, why are we then going to be like the rooster can't be outside? I mean like if it becomes a problem then bring it in. But why create the condition if there's the flexibility to manage the problem as it >> presents or doesn't? >> Well, I'm not saying the rooster can't
go outside, but if the rooster were to live outside in the coupe, then wouldn't it just automatically uh cockadoodle do twice a day outside? Whereas this way, if the rooster's living inside, it means that the rooster can go outside. >> But during those two times when it wants
to do those two those things, it's in the house, which is why nobody cared in the first place. That's what we were saying is we think that nobody cared because Rooster is not motivated or if it does, it's nobody hears it. So, all right. >> And Debbie, would that be in conflict with Mark Stone's? >> Well, what Mark said was, I mean,
everything on his recommendation is not a condition. So, he didn't say this has to happen. He just gave us information which is or suggestions to of the discussion points. You know, we should establish where the hens and roosters are going to be kept. So, our what we're going to establish is that the the hens
will be kept outside. The rooster will continue to um reside as it has previously. >> Leave it at that. whe in the house. I would say that >> um and then um it says we may wish to impose a condition that uh roosters or
other farm animals are not allowed. We're not going to you know the fact that we're going to allow this one rooster and we'll specify it is this one rooster. Um that's that's you know that's number three and that's one we're not going to follow. And then when the
animals when these animals die the uh they can go it goes back that the the the 10 is allowed but the there's no replacing the two additional chickens and the rooster without again applying for >> once these animals pass it reverts back
>> back to the permit will be will elapse. >> Yeah. Um and it says it um the applicant should be informed that if an accessory structure is constructed erected that a permit from the inspections department is required. So, we'll leave that one in. They
>> It's automatically required. Yeah. I think if we say visit home, then the board of health and the other inspectors, we're it's in our order that it has to be in the house. I like the fact that we're ordering it in the house. >> And then it just says um if we wish to impose condition that it's subject to
periodic inspections. >> That's a good thing. So, do we want to do periodic periodic inspections and to at what time? Right. Twice a year. >> I don't want to place an overburden on.
>> Once a year. >> Once a year is fine. >> Annually. >> So, Mark, you have you're okay. >> Yeah. I mean, I think um I don't have the town health code in front of me, but I appreciate that there was just some oral observance that this shouldn't be happening and then there was you need a
special permit. Now, we're going to do this. My concern is that what we're saying if we're saying thing lives inside is that we are actually violating a health code that's going to keep this issue alive. And if we just keep our mouths shut and grant special permit and bring the bird in or out as needed, this
whole thing could be managed within a year. So, I I I'm a little concerned that we're setting ourselves up for a ZBA order that's in direct contradiction to a board of health standard or regulation and then that's going to be a problem if we just shut up about it. It
could not be a problem. >> All right. Great. So, what what would So, >> I appreciate what Mark's saying like, you know, I I we could just also not specify where they live. >> They're already building a coupe. That's a health department issue.
Okay, I see what you're saying. I I don't Either way, I have a different view of it, but your view is fine. So, >> this is just my opinion. >> No, no, it's for me in the least. >> It makes sense. It's good. Okay. So, again, the conditions are
>> conditions are um >> if you want I can read it. >> Yeah. Water. Thank you, Eric. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> I was not good with that's my notes. >> The applicant shall meet all requirements from the memo >> from Mark's no dated September 4th, 2025.
>> So we're but we're not going to do that. We're not going with all the things that he has. >> No, I see what you're saying. So the initial one is out. Okay. >> Yeah. >> The rooster shall be kept inside the house, but now this is this is kept >> and that's the concern. I think Mark raised a valid concern that by
specifying it that um >> so no mention of where the chickens are or are kept the special permit lapse when the rooster and any excess of 10 chickens expire. >> Yeah. >> Property shall be the property shall
submit to an annual inspection. And the permit not even so are there any recommendations for Mark Snow that we need to incorporate or or we've already done that? >> No, it's um it just says if a special permit is granted, the board should impose a condition of property must comply with this performance standards
listed in section 200-6.8. >> Hearing is closed. >> No, the hearing is closed. Yes, >> I I I did inform you. I know I I know I informed you at the last meeting. >> I'm sorry. I've been to the last two meetings previous
um Okay, >> we live right by that house. >> Those people barking all the time already. >> I mean, >> and there were several people here last week that were here in >> I informed I informed everyone that it
was going to be continued to this meeting. I know one of your group heard it. It's posted. I I It's not on us. So, I have to Is there any precedent for allowing people to speak after we close the hear? We're deliberating already, right? We've already made >> deliberating
here. >> I know you're here. I But I I'm sorry. I can't I I can't. We're We're We've already made a decision. >> What's the decision? >> That we're going to allow it. >> Well, we're going to have to hear strong. >> I can't believe you're going to allow it. >> Why have an amphitheater there? I I I
don't I don't know why we have to respond. >> We don't I want to be I don't want to be rude, but >> you are being rude. Well, >> well, I'm sorry. You think I'm being rude? >> Well, I'll take that rooster and bring it right to your house.
>> You had your opportunity. Take responsibility. >> Okay. So, >> I mean, if I just want to say if if it had been not like an hour later, I I would have been more open to hearing them. But, >> well, I I just
>> it was at 6:45 and it's 5 minutes later. >> Trying to punish anybody. >> I think we're already there. We've already >> legally I mean, legally, >> I think we'd have a problem if we open the meeting back up. You know, we've closed it. We We're recommending that >> Well, they can appeal our decision. >> Absolutely. Y that's
>> okay. So what do we have now for >> can I can I I I fully understand where where Mark is coming from but in in the board of health come through get a special permit and I don't know what they exactly meant but if we just said just ignore it I don't know what the
health code regulations are regarding having a bird in the building if we don't say anything we're silent on it and a board of health comes back and the bird's in the house we have the same dilemma Huh? >> Think we do. >> You know, I hear what you're saying because then it's almost kind of like
right that there's permission for a flock to be in the house or something. So, sure. So that the rooster can live inside the house. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm just saying just the rooster inside the house. I mean, the board of health is very
rarely do. I mean, they say those things, but they're not here. There's no quotation of what the regulation in the board of health, you know. So I'm just frustrated that if we say nothing, the board of health can come back and again say, you know, get rid of the root. >> No, listen. The board of health had their chance to
>> I know, but >> yeah. >> No, you're right. >> So do it. So sanitary should will be housed inside >> and maybe that'll mitigate >> Yeah. It's you know, it's had like clearly
there's an issue now, but since they've never come There's nothing from as far as I know there's been no noise complaints prior. Sounds like that once you tried to have the bird be outside it became a problem as opposed to what it was prior. Well,
Mark, the reason that I was taking another position was more for what Peter was saying that the idea that we put it in there gives it some either an override or it gives it some strength uh to you know so that the board of health can't really hassle them
>> because it's part of our order. >> Yeah. >> No, and I guess what I'm saying >> keeping of poultry and bats. Well, they they had they had an >> single bird. >> They had an opportunity to let us know and uh >> No, I'm fine with it. >> Okay.
>> But just one final statement and let's use common sense. If you're allowed to keep a parakeet in your house, there's no difference than just half. >> Yep. >> No difference. >> Okay. Good. That's >> I'd like practicality. >> So, we have all the conditions. Need to read them one more time so we all know
what they are. >> The rooster shall be kept inside the house. The applicant shall keep the rooster inside the house. The property shall be subject to an annual inspection. The special permit shall lapse when the rooster in any excess of 10 chickens
expire. >> So keep in the house or is that keep in the house is okay. Okay. All right. Okay. Um any more discussion? So hearing none. All in favor say I. I. Any any opposed?
Let the let the uh record show that the vote was four to one. Jim win voted no. >> I feel like I always unanimous. This is kind of different. I raised chickens all my life. My son has chickens.
>> We had 20 chickens, 20 kons, rabbits, 4 age for 20 years. Never had them in the house. Uh, okay. Let's >> not. Can somebody make a motion for the New Life LLC? I'll make a motion for the application
of New Life LLC for property located at 28 High Street assesses map 56 52 which is located in a semi-residential SR zoning district for a special permit pursuant to section 200-4.5
Z14 200-7.6 6 and 200-8.3 of the zoning ordinance order the law of congregated housing for the handicap at this location second subject to the following conditions.
>> I have process question. you've got there's a whole list of criteria that needs to be met and whenever they run from the fire prevention officer. It just seems like a bunch of suggestions or
advice. Who who becomes the forcing authority to say oh which of those who's going to be mandating the criteria both >> fire the fire department and the inspector of buildings. So they'll get
together jointly and say, "Okay, here's what the applicant needs to pull." Is it appearly >> or separately? Because they fire department's going to require a sprinkle system. >> Yeah. But when they when a permit gets pulled by them, you know, is the permit to to the building inspector and the
building inspector mandates these things based on input from fire prevention officer. >> There's a separate code for the fire that has to be met and a separate application cost. The concern I have, one of the requirements for building inspector is a
certificate of occupancy. If in fact they can't tie into the sprinkler system in the this winter, they'll need to get a temporary certificate of occupancy until they get a permanent place. All right. And I just want to make sure jurisdictionally they can proceed to occupy the house
with a you know temporary CO until the spring or whenever they because what what David says you know get it done as soon as possible and how that logistically gets done so they can hire contractors to do the work. >> Yes, the inspector buildings can issue a
temporary CO and he has done that many times in the past. right now they don't have a anything. So um all right so I would I would like to just guide us a little bit. Um I think under these circumstances we should look
at 8.3F and all the nine uh criteria. I would uh like to have the board accept the representation from council at the current time as to how he believes those uh conditions are being met by this
project. I I would agree with him. The thing that we need to decide uh is number eight. That's our decision. Uh is uh will the pro is the project compatible with existing uses and other uses allowed by right in the district
and shall not detract from the character and scale of neighboring properties as that relates. So it so that that's one question and then attorney Tyne is saying is asking for a reasonable accommodation uh in that analysis because there uh
under 4A section 3 uh a a disability a place that helps people with disabilities is accepted from you know some of the more stringent requirements of zoning. So, we're kind of walking a little bit of a fuzzy line here between
things that might be allowed because they override uh the our our ability to zone these things and the fact that we could actually rationally say that um that they meet the criteria of the of the zoning of the zoning
ordinance. So, there's nothing in this use that makes me think it's inconsistent with any of the other uses that are allowed by right. Um uh and um so I'm not sure we even need to make a reasonable accommodation, but
if anyone were to think that it didn't, we wanted to stretch it to make a reasonable accommodation for this use. Um so I want to put that in the record that we did go through that. Uh and um and then to begin to incorporate the the I
would like to incorporate the building inspectors uh memo to us of June of September 25th, 2025 that um that what's happening here is that the applicant has accepted that the
um that the building inspector is state is stating that this is a congregant housing use and that whatever code that is in both the building code and the fire code. That's what the that's what the that's what the special permit is for that use.
>> It's not for any it's not for any softer use or any other use. It's for the use that's been presented by the applicant as congregate housing and has been reflected in the memo by the building inspector as to how he's going to treat the building code and fire and the fire
department has given us. Uh so those two things have to be incorporated by reference into this into this um into this uh commission. There anything else? >> Um you know
I fully support what they're doing here. You know it's definitely something that's needed in the community. Um and I think the fact that they've been here you have been doing this for two years. the only person who who sent us anything
about who or corresponded with us anyway, somebody who took the time to show up here today to say they were in support living right across the street. I think that speaks very well of everything. My only concern is that, you know, going through the documentation, it sounds like these concerns and issues
were brought up a year ago and, you know, we here we are, well, I guess technically 11 months later just now talking about this. So, you know, one of the things I would like to do is make sure we're very clear about the timeline in the approval and permit process. We I
it shouldn't be another year before all of these items are are soon as possible. >> Well, I I think we need to be more clear than soon as possible because as soon as possible could be another year. Well, I couldn't get a contract. I couldn't, you know, all of these things. I think we need to set some >> So, what do you think?
>> Um, my suggestion would be is that, you know, um, like there there'd be like a checklist and we need to somehow come up with a way to discuss that they're showing progress, that they have a contract that, you know, and I don't know, maybe that's or we put a time limit on saying,
you know, in X number of months is we need to show progress or something. I I don't know how what we can legally say, but I don't want to, you know, it shouldn't be an 18 month 12 to 18 month process in addition to the year that they've already had to get these issues
resolved. And I don't know how I I honestly I don't know how best to do that within what what we can do. I just don't want it to keep going, you know, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months. And >> I know there's some limitations in regards to like when they can even get
into into opening up the ground tying into the sprinkle system. I know that that time frame, they're probably not going to be able to do that now. >> Well, I mean, we could say it has, for example, unless there's a protest, we could say it has to be done within six months unless the building inspector
extends that period of time. >> That would work. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a reasonable Yeah, >> I was going to suggest six months, but that extra language is perfect. Yeah, I think that's good because that, you know, we can trust Mark to >> they'll the the conversation between the applicant and Mark, not us.
>> No, no, I but I was saying we can trust Mark and make sure that things are progressing >> to his satisfaction and I I would be comfortable with that. >> You read that >> otherwise I'm going to end up editing it. Are we are we we're including the just meeting all the criteria. I know we
mentioned Mark's letter, but also um Alex's letter. >> Yes. >> I know there's codes and everything that are in place that we don't have to talk about. >> Well, Eric, he also asked us there any special conditions and the special condition is the time frame. >> The time frame.
>> The other special conditions that need to be. >> All right. Go ahead, Eric. What's that? >> Oh, >> actually he talks about within a specified time frame. >> Do you have the date of >> building the inspector buildings?
September 25th, 2025 >> and the fire prevention options. >> Okay. She's getting out. >> Yeah. So, the condition would be that the the applicants to follow all requirements uh from the inspector of
buildings memo dated September 25th, 2025. This sale be completed within 6 months of approval. uh unless granted an extension by the inspector of buildings >> and >> and uh identically same thing but for
the fire prevention officer dated >> September 26 2025 >> September 262 I think one thing maybe I was maybe I was not listening but have you given them kind of what the process is there's 20 days to
fract. >> Have I given the this applicant or both applicants? >> Both applicants. >> I don't usually do I know Mark did it. Uh I guess I could state it. I know attorney K knows it. >> Well, I mean they especially um Jada
should probably made aware of >> All right. But but let's vote. Let's vote for So Jada, don't leave until I explain to you what happens next. Okay. Um, so we read the conditions, everybody's agreed on them. All in favor say I. I.
>> Any oppose? Let the record show it was unanimous. Congratulations. >> Good luck. Good luck. >> Hi. Thank you very much, >> Deborah. Thank you very much. appreciate. >> Um,
>> so Jada, um, the way the system works is that now that we've made a decision, it gets written up and signed and then, um, filed with the town clerk, city clerk. Once it gets filed with the city clerk, there's 20 days, not business days, but
20 days in which someone can appeal our decision. So for example, the two women that left here, if they felt that they wanted to, they could appeal it. There's a process under law that they have to follow. But once the 20 days go by goes
by without an appeal, then um then the the then the uh the decision is final and you can move on under the conditions with the permission under the conditions. >> Can you hear me? Does that make sense? >> That makes sense.
Now, with the inspections, when would those start? >> That's between you and the the animal inspector. >> Okay. >> So, he would be a buck, but that's >> he'll be he'll be contacting me with
what he wants, right? >> They'll find they'll find out about the permit and they'll decide what they want to do. Yes. >> Okay, that's fair. Thank you guys so much. You have no idea what this means. >> You have a good night. >> Thank you, Jay. Take care. >> Thank you.
>> Have a good night. >> All right. Uh approval. Now, I don't I didn't get Were there eight that were distributed? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Not read them. So, if somebody wants to make a Let's do the motion for the 11th.
Those are red. So, can I hear a motion to approve the minutes of the 11? Make your motion to meet approve the minutes of the September 11th meeting. >> Second. >> Any discussion? All in favor say I. I. >> Opposed. Motion to approve the September 18th minutes of the meeting.
>> Second. >> Okay. Uh, take a vote. Take a roll for vote. >> Jim W approves. >> Debbie Jo. Yes. >> Money. I >> I didn't read them. I stay. Okay. before we leave in Dur. We're
Saturday. Uh Peter won't us your plans change. Peter won't be there, but we'll be there on Saturday. So, this is how we're gonna it's it's posted. I'm going to run it like a meeting. It'll obviously be a little looser than a meeting because we'll all be outside, but um it's really our show. We ask the
questions. I'm happy to let the public speak if I feel comfortable that there's something that's useful to do that. Ask questions or whatever. But generally, if the public is going to take us to their homes and show us things, I'm happy to have that happen. I will not allow there to be some sort of a confrontation or
anything like that, then I'll just either I don't know what I'll do, but I'll I'll stop the meeting for sure. So, I think it'll be fine, but that's what that's how it's going to be run. It's really our meeting for us to see and people can follow us and see what we're doing, but it's not about everybody, you know, it's not like a group question
time. >> I apologize. It's I'm sure it's in the email, but where are we meeting >> at? So, you go down the road to the duplex >> all the way. Okay. >> I'm not sure I made it. >> I've been down there before. >> That makes That's where the far posted agenda just gives the address,
but that's the two duplexes. >> Yeah. And >> that's a 10, right? >> So, I think we drive down to the two houses and then keep going. >> No, stop. You can't keep going. >> Okay. >> The project is kind of across the So, if you were at the two duplexes, it's across the street. That's where the
hillside is. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Uh, and then the other projects. >> Hey, nobody brought up it's in a flood zone. >> I'm being facicious. >> That was our >> It's in a thousand year flood. >> Okay, it's on. I hear a motion to adjurnn.
>> So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor say I. Let the record shows unanimous.