##VIDEO ID:PSHwOJpG-8M## I call the meeting to order uh and we this is a hybrid meeting okay good this is a hybrid meeting and the agenda's been posted on our website so uh first order of business Margo Jones present thank you and uh we also have staff here oh Aon andal and uh you can see Doug May there is Doug here no we hope Doug is there he is there okay great hi can you say hello Doug uh okay well for the record I am recording them the meeting as well just on my computer oh okay just for the record so that and it's being recorded correctly uh correct yes yep yes and anyone else who might be recording needs to let us know if they are no okay uh so I'll uh entertain a motion to approve the December 5th meeting minutes so move all those in favor in favor unanimous thank you very much and I'll also entertain a motion to approve the minutes of the public hearing of January 2nd so move uh which we circulated online and I believe on the uh Google Drive for the access the drive yet you I can't put stuff on it yet oh we had to fix that yeah it's been worked on okay yeah ER said he's working on it with it but oh did I hear a second H I second that okay all those in favor I I unanimous terrific and thank you Sarah very much for the detailed minutes those were uh very nice it was a lot let us when you write your first novel but you won't have time if I want to document us like you are okay so first item under old business is um a report about the final disposition of the survey and planning grant that was done by uh Brian night and Brian was trying to attend um Athena do you know if he's going to make it she's on mute um supposed to be I haven't heard that he's not and but he said 5:30 I think didn't he Mar 530 okay so with the uh consent of the group uh or a sense of the motion may I move this to when he shows up yeah you can just change change your order that's no problem great that would be awesome and Matthew will be on to run the slides yep I all set up yeah good ah hey Matt hello and I'll take notes sounds good okay perect thanks everybody okay so the next uh item of business was Community preservation committee Sarah's going to give us an update so we actually didn't have too too much to update the CRC came in and updated us on their uh res the product to redo the windows in the building um and they're hoping to get rolling on that um and the hello it's it's that's the Old Courthouse yes yes the Old Courthouse and then the other one was the barn uh we had talked about the whitewashing at the fairgrounds so they are not going through with that because it was way more expensive to have it actually done in correctly like whitewash in the historic fashion so they found a vendor in their they're going through and they're actually go to initiate the next steps with that as well so other than that we're starting to review projects and we're getting on a roll we have one more historic project to review and I think it's going to be next week we're doing that so theoretically in February we'll have a little bit more information and I can give everybody copies of their their full applications and all that as well if you guys want to have access to that well it's on the website right yes yeah but just in case anybody wants like physical copies I'm very happy to print that stuff out for the um the fairgrounds just clarify in the initial application that we saw said they there were no lime washers and so they were going to do this other thing that's not quite as historic it's not quite as historic no but then and I know I connected them with a lime washer so it sounds like they connected with that person but it's too expensive so they're sticking with yeah they said it was about 10 times the cost yeah so they were like so Not only was it 10 times the cost but it would last 10 times as less it wouldn't last as long it wouldn't it wouldn't preserve as well into the future so ultimately the process that they're going forward with was de to be the best for what they you know the money that they have and the services that they're you know going to use and all that so but yeah I did I did actually ask if they had talked to you and they they were very they were like yeah we did it it was awesome and you know it didn't work out okay good but yes know what happened yeah and so we have like I said we have one more project to review and and then uh we will go from there but deliberations are expected to last until at least March and then so as far as funding that'll be a little bit farter out do all the historic projects have our have a letter of recommendation from us I believe it there are at least two that do yeah if I'm I have not read all the applications thoroughly yet but I if if not I will let you know and we can contact them and reach out because might as well at this point the more documentation they have the the the better you know and then we wrote in favor of the libraries project yes and and the crcs yes I actually was looking at that earlier today yeah so if anybody else I think there's only one there's only three applications for the historic uh and I believe there's only one left which is the the library and yeah so theoretically would it be the town hall documents that one or did that get that I think that was last year last year come back yeah this one part of the the library is looking to digitize some of their documents for the Greenfield room and uh that one has not been presented yet okay well thank you Sarah we look forward to hearing from you again in February um so the next item of old business is the YMCA uh discussion of the demolition delay that we passed last two weeks ago there's been some some new information and I'll invite Brady to speak to present that yeah sure on right up thank you for having me this evening I appreciate it uh as I at the end of the meeting on the second I think I mentioned that we had one more I think our eth Museum historic commission group coming by to visit the church church and uh the hopes were that the bar hisor commission and the bar hisor Society were bringing along a local businessman who had an interest in perhaps bringing the church back to Barry where it originated and I think most of it history lays uh gentleman by the name of Phil Stevens the owner of the uh Carter and Stevens Farm LLC and Barry and I did share with with the both you and with Aaron a package that I put together and I can I have assuming that you you had shared that with the other members of the committee so I won't get into all the details unless you want them to but Mr Stevens and his family uh have decided they would like to dis dismantle the church and bring it back to Barry where they will put it they will rebuild it it would actually be their 10th rebuilding project they've done they've done five historic buildings and this would be the six historic building along with four other buildings that they they've dismantled and rebuilt on their commercial Farm property and the really cool thing is that this so the whole Catalyst for this was combination of the Barry Historic Society uh their president and their secretary and then the the historian for the society who was also the chairman of the Barry historic commission all attended that came on that visit so they were kind of catalyst that brought us all together and uh just uh even took you know he and his family came it's a family operation uh he's the fifth fourth generation of Stevens who run the farm and the fifth is his children who are all engaged as well and he decided that this was a project worthy of uh taking on and bring bringing it back to Barry and uh I listed all the things that he would like to bring back anything of historical nature you know the framework of the church it will be rebuilt on his commercial Farm property in Barry it'll be part of his commercial Farm operation it will be a it'll be a building that'll be open to public uh exact use he was not ready to tell me what that would be but it would be some some aspect of the farm and he did he did indicate that they would put historic signage up to make sure that they documented the the building's history Etc and I guess the most important thing of all I just want to share is in addition to having this would be his tenth rebuilding uh five of which are his historic buildings I I spoke to him again this morning and get some more information and i' like tell me about your your family's history and fifth generation is on the farm now he is also and I did not realize this Ste uh Phil is a board member of the mount Grace land conservation trust in AAL and his mom and dad have been passed and one is currently a board member of the Barry historical commission so there is a a prediliction towards uh preserving history and being aware in uh and and proud of history and then I spoke to Bob Bentley this morning president of the Barry Historical Society K flick Secretary of the Barry historical society and Lucy Allen who was the historian for the Barry historical society and president of the Barry historical commission just to reinforce that yeah you brought you brought Phil over and you were the Catalyst but how do you guys feel about this and I will paraphrase Kay flick who I spoke with she goes Grady as you're telling me the news I'm getting tingly all over this is really exciting uh I talked to Bob Bentley the president and he was equally excited thought it was great news and then I talked to Lucy Allen who I had shared some of her historical research back on the second and she also is extraordin excited about the about the church coming back to Barry they are very comfortable and very excited to have it on the Farm property because that was one thing that I was a little bit worried about was it is not going to go back to the original site uh but they're like this is perfect this will be open to the public it'll be heavily traveled along with the other historic properties they have there so just uh really exciting to hear and and I guess in closing this we've been on a long and winding tap between us and you guys have been very open-minded and I appreciate that you've also I've respected the work that you do and I just want to say in advance of a vote that I hope you'll take this evening I just would like to say Bob and K and Lucy and all of us at dwai are very very flattered that okay and pleased that you would consider uh this compromise which preserves history it takes takes the building out of Green Field obviously but it puts it back where I think that that rightful history should be preserved and honored and I just want to say in advance thank you for the consideration now this this Farm is a is an aggro turism business he's got a brewery there uh sells milk sells beef sells bunch of stuff but he also has regular events there and so forth he does yes yeah research on the farm I was interested in I mean like what are you gonna use it for and he's like I don't know yet he I mean he tossed out he's not gonna make a pig farm out no it's this is for people to visit families to visit okay good I mean he talked about he you know he talked about we want to put a petting zoo in for children I'm like well I don't know if that's what the church would be used for but it's that's not final but we you know we even talked about a museum SCE which I think we'd all love to see but bottom line it's going to be used it's going to be preserved it's going to be respected and uh and people will be spending time in it which I think is really exciting yeah he's quite a guy I've learned a lot about him as have you uh and one of the things that I was really concerned about was is he just doing this because he can and it's just like a cheap building for him and having done the research with the commission and the society in Barry uh talking to the you know talking about their belief and what man's doing and then looking at his background uh there's a big big influence of conservation and history which kind of for me sealed the deal like this is going to be a good home for this this building and that was the purpose of delaying the demolition yeah to give you an opportunity to find a way to save it and uh wow somebody two days or one day somebody from on top smiled down on all of us and I'm forever grateful I know I'd like to tell you with my all my sated hard work but quite frankly I'll I'll take the credit for that but it was some folks on the outside that we' engaged were like let's find a way to make this work a whole bunch of people got together and now we have a ways to go so you know and I'm I don't want to say this is a done deal uh we've got we've got some work on our end to do getting rid of you know the the Hazmat materials we've got a uh tin and doing tired of work we've got two building permit two two demo permits now to take the church down and rebuild and then for the the balance the property uh and so there's some other things going on as well we're trying to renegotiate a price with our our original company because one of the things I said from the beginning is that not only do we want to preserve history but that and it's not it's a little bit out of my call but I I'm going to go to my finance committee next week and hopefully be able to provide some a donation to Phil to help with this help with the process of getting this thing taken and uh taken apart and mov back I kind of like that's that's our gift to Barry for what they're doing and what what f is doing oh that's incredible yeah um way the board says yeah SP right well it's the whole thing as you know in some the whole thing is just like mindboggling yeah you know what are the odds that Barry would come and save the day you know special word that's the origination of the church just like it's almost too good to be true right I sort of feel the same way any other discussion yeah I I Ian I'll just make comments I mean I as someone who's worked in preservation for you know a number of years I always love when we can you know save buildings on site um that said and I think this is It's very rare to find situations where small town historical societies are not always known for their vast amounts of resources and I was not holding out hope for for that solution um but it's it's it's very rare for something like this I think to happen in the way that it has I think it's a really um great solution in the end to be able to obviously sad to lose it in Greenfield but to take it back to where it was initially with a a steward who seems to understand the value of the site um moving buildings is not always easy finding someone to move them I think I commend the why for what I think was a really uh great effort to find to find someone to do this um I'm just again in my experience finding takers for buildings like this is is rare and so it's really I think a a minor miracle but in a preservation I think in the end is about um you know we make compromises and adaptive reuses I think are great solutions for buildings to be able to contribute in viable new ways that meet people's needs today um I mean I have questions about how we kind of go forward in a way that ensures that you know that if if the demolition delay is lifted like that this happens and what happen once the building is disassembled like it's it has gone from Greenfield so how do we kind of manage those Logistics to make sure that this actually to give us some reasonable I guess a guarantee maybe is impossible but to find out how how we get as close as possible to we want to make sure this will actually happen because once it's gone it's not going back up here so those are quite but all that to say I think it's a great solution I'd love to see it happen well I I Jimmy I had some of those same questions myself that's why I spent a lot of time talking with Phil and getting some references and they they have unhesitatingly said as many reference if you want from the other building we Shen down and put back up I've I did in the package I sent there were several photographs of how of buildings that they were reassembling in various stages and I think a couple that were already completely reassembled so it's he has a track record uh he loves Barry you know his family's been there since 1938 I think he told me and uh when he visited was not just he but it was also his two daughters his son-in-law and and they're they're going to be the team that has taken down nine before and be the 10th and also we are working on a very simple contract that holds him accountable and holds us accountable on our end of things so and that's certainly not fail safe but he was like makes sense let's do that and I said if you ever had this know it's always been a handshake and I said well I'm a veror and I believe in handshakes but I think my board would probably appreciate a little bit more structure and I'm going to take a while guess that maybe the green the Greenfield hisor commission would also like a little bit more uh something more concrete he's like write it up and I'll take a look at it and so so we would we would need a motion to resend is that correct so we need a motion to resend the uh delay how do you the initiation of the delay is that that what we're doing to resend what's the wording your a motion to resend the uh vote on the demolition Delay from the date which was the the second um and if you want to attach a contingency you can attach it there contingent on this receiving the written uh agreement written so okay so we're not we wouldn't resend our designation of the building as a preferably preserved building we would simply un invoke the demolition delay that's we send it we would revoke the the delay on contingent on getting the document that you were talking about right that we was we would you want us to write a document for you to sign is that what you said or no I'm oh I'm I'm working directly with uh Carter and and Stevens Farm LLC to write a simple document okay both he and I will sign okay not looking for anything just looking for a vote to we would just want to see that we wouldn't be signatory to it right right okay we would yeah we just want to see it so contingent on on on receiving that that letter or the contract whatever however you want to describe it that we would resend our invocation of the delay of the demolition delay that's the right wording and just so I it sounds like probably back to my initial question the the closest that we can get to a guarantee which I realize is impossible is is a contract between the Y and the Mover well if we see that piece of paper that it's contingent on seeing that piece of paper that's best we can do really okay yeah yeah okay do you Sarah do you have a sense of em motion yeah I can totally I'll piece it together okay I will having the motion on the table I'd like to open it up to further discussion and with your permission second yeah we need a second thank you second Jeremy second great uh and with your permission or understanding I I understand there's some members from the public here tonight who may wish to comment and uh possibly those on the zoom call as well so uh let's see raise your hands here if you want to comment you had a couple of people come in who aren't on this list yeah could you sign in anybody who came in or didn't sign that list if you put them down for our record so we have two in person and then we'll go to who's on the zoom call is anybody can you raise your hand if you want to speak to this motion doesn't look like anybody does okay Doug does who does Doug ma oh okay Doug all right I was looking for recognize Doug first since he's a m yes yeah I waved at him but Doug's here please do you want to declare that you're here Doug he's working on on muting himself right now he's working on it okay yeah very good um I just want to uh double or basically ditto what Jeremy had said and I uh being uh I think this is really good for the why and really good name uh in my opinion the where the historical Commission and our our mission is to save historical buildings or or other things and I think uh it fits right in with what uh uh what we want to do what we're trying to do for for both Greenfield and now we can make it happen for uh wherever this the Y is going that's the first I've heard of it actually moving away but that's that's that's still in my wheel house or in our wheelhouse in terms of of uh what we do with historical things and I I'm just so glad that it's uh going to be restored it's not won't be in the same location but that's okay um but I'm in favor of the motion um so that's that's it thank you very much great thank you Doug and I understand Stephanie you do want to speak but first i'm gonna go to the people in the room yes yes um Rebecca Todd uh one suggestion to Jeremy's point about a guarantee and a possible friendly amendment to your motion um you suggested that you would see the document I might suggest that the commission would um review the document and make the recision of your decision contingent on approval of the document yeah that's what the motion said yeah it did say contingent on yeah yeah thank you I will work my magic yeah magic good and Patty oh you probably don't want me to read the whole thing no I'd like you to keep it to three minutes possi well that's less than three minutes but okay and I have I sent to ER I don't know if you got the letters the other letters people sign letter the same topic and that is that um and I'll just you speak up use the microphone oh do we have a microphone soon can pick you up thank you talking to the P I hate being on TV too so we're all watching um of course I as a advocate for historic preservation I'm thrilled that this building will go back to its origin in on Barry um but with that said um the I think the opposition to it at the previous meeting was that it would remove it from our historic district and leave an open space in our historic district um and there um the conversation I think now turns toward the fact that the our demolition La bylaw has no provision for removal of a building and the demolition bylaw has no provision for removal of the building so um removing it is not covered under this and what the removal of it does is the same as demolition because it will be gone um so a thought that um many of us have had and have talked about and would like to propose is that uh the back of that building which is not being moved to Barry um which is the carriage house that uh during this interim period while um the negotiations are ongoing for um a contract to remove the building and to ensure that that happens um in you know in accordance with everyone's wishes that there be an opportunity to look at the carriage house as you know also as uh a preservation object because it is is the um hagus Carriage House and that is represents a figure in Greenfield history that's a very important figure I don't know if some of you new people know about the the people the Washburn and hagus figures in Greenfield but um they are um important people and I can just sort of summarize but um you know uh the that Carriage House is the last piece of the representation of the Haus family on Main Street and so we thought well wouldn't it be nice if that Carriage House can be you know relocated and and preserved as well and there are a number of different scenarios that could make that possible but just that um if you uh if the you know the um lifting of the uh demolition order is contingent upon the removal you know the um contract for the removal during that period um that would be a good time to explore opportunities for preserving that building which is extremely Charming um and is is actually original to Greenfield and is the last representation of what those two properties once were the Y property I think you wrote a interesting wasburn wasburn yeah you you've written about both of them and um and so it's just a way to sort of remediate the damage that is done when we remove something from our historic district which is suffering you know in these recent years from things happening and so uh so you know I've written my letter which I think erab mie forwards to all of you who couldn't figure out how to communicate because there's no email addresses on my City website um so I know that Tom bledo has written a letter um as has Mitch Anthony and Sandy Thomas so we've all sort of written about this and would like some consideration on that notion of uh lifting the order maybe on that front section but that giving the um back building an opportunity for the same preservation and restoration yeah my three minutes right oh was that three go I would like made it 30 seconds and then get out of here but anyway so any other folks in the audience to speak no okay I understand Stephanie uh you have your hand up yes thank you can you hear me okay Stephanie Duos um Chapman Street Greenfield I love the idea that the church is going to be preserved in in some capacity I would have hated to see it demolished uh downtown I fully support the historical preservation of our district I would love to see something similar in design if you know aesthetically pleasing um with the preservation of the carriage house um as once noted by the previous speaker um just because we are losing something that is so beautiful um even though it can't physically be used at this moment because of you know safety concerns but if you stand out there at night and you just look at the light shining on it it is a beautiful building and and hopefully on a redesign if a if a relocation does happen um that we could you know kind of preserve even our Skyline um I'd love to see that happen I know it's it might be a crazy design feature but we are losing something by losing that building not just you know the historical significance but the beauty of the building itself in our downtown thank you thank you thank you any other uh people would like to speak hearing none I think we should bring this to a vote uh could you restate the motion Sarah uh I'm was going to do on the computer to think about it all right what the motion is to resend the uh invoking invocation of the uh demolition delay ordinance uh contingent on us being able to um produce the document to review and accept review and accept there you go see I know you know I help yeah you do and accept the document that uh that is being signed between the Y andca and and the uh gentleman there uh Phil Stevens okay any further discussion got a problem with that buddy no I guess as a matter of procedure I'm Cur I I think interesting points were raised by speakers do we is this the time to have conversation about that or would that be after I I I don't I don't wish to alter the motion yeah so motion stands as unless somebody wants to amend it I I can point out that the national register form for the church does not mention I mean has one sentence under historic significance about carage house the carriage house and the national register District doesn't mention it and our people have looked at it and said that it was not in very good condition right so for what that's worth can I clarifying question I guess the plan I mean the the the implication of this vote based on the plan that the YMCA has which be the church the church goes to bury the carriage house and the connector building are demolished he is planning on salvaging the Carriage House Koopa in addition Mr Stevens will Salvage any or all of the following if they have historical significance Carriage House KOA interior Wayne scotting inter internal doors etc etc well so so my question would be now the the demolition permit that we received that we had a public hearing about on January 2nd uh involved the the Demolition and dis like pretty much almost Total Disposal of the building materials now now this new plan to deconstruct the church and reconstruct it somewhere else would that uh would that require a new demolition permit since the since the plan is kind of Chang and we've actually yeah submitted that okay that would require a new one yes yeah okay and it would specifically say that the carriage house would be demolished but that the truth would be new okay so that would be under the in the new permit yeah so and I believe Grady didn't you say that they looked at the carriage house and it's not in good shape but they are preserving the Koopa right we also had people look at the okay well so so well now the way I see it since like since the original demolition permit is kind of just going to get torn up and tossed out I mean that would kind of make our delay null and void anyways because like we you would apply for a new demol a new permit for this dismantling and relocation of the building and we delay yeah but I think technically we would it's like it's a it's a completely different permit now is no no I think the spirit of the law is or the ordinance is that yeah and I know that there's a timetable involved here as well point I want to make is if you wait till next month yeah we [Music] can yeah oh yeah yeah no I mean I'm not saying I have a problem with it but just like kind of kind of like as like maybe more of a clarification thing for me because I mean like like I said I mean like this I wasn't sure if it was you know so I guess what you're saying is that the delay is tied to the building and not to per that's right right right so um given that we have really quite an agenda tonight uh I'd like to move this to a vote all those in favor of the motion I say I Doug Doug raises his hand as well yes okay any opposed seeing none the motion passes okay thank you very much so may I ask if when I get this contract this simple onepage contract will you be able to look at it and get back to me virtually yeah yes oh no well we this is a delayed meeting we actually have a meeting February 6th I think it is the thir first Thursday and February but I think I would like I mean it would be helpful soon we can gete is it no not a problem it's not a problem with open meeting do that because it's been discussed and um you guys have the authority yeah and it's so I can distribute it yep okay we're we're going to work back your thoughts on it now get it to you so she signs okay thank thanks yeah yes there's a question on the I I have some concern that we we received letters from the public that we didn't see or have an opportunity to I mean I we voted and that's good but I as someone I know who was on the side of writing these letters lots of time that that is being worked on to be to to have as I understand from what you've been saying the town has been working on a way for us to get uh to have a a an for for correspondence and soth which we don't have at this point prior to that it was passed on to us to the chair but now we'd like we'd like to have a direct thing but that is being worked on yeah I just yeah I I think it's really important if the public writes letters to us get those letters and have an opportunity to read them and understand their content right we vote so that we can hear from the public and right consider that have time to consider those things right before so good point okay well I see Brian Knight in the audience our esteemed consultant all the way from Vermont I do want to make sure that there is another meeting in here at 6:30 so yeah we're we're gonna keep moving along yep you guys are doing great Connecticut River so you're not ready for my 40 slides can you guys see the slideshow okay oh oh yeah look at that that's working hi yeah how do I uh make a move next slide next slide there's a magic person behind Okay okay don't first of all do we need to introduce you or I'm Brian night Brian's been our our consultant on this historic survey and planning Grant uh update for year and a half or like that he's from Vermont and uh he's done an amazing job so and I say I've been using the old survey extensively for years and your version is really well done thank you lot of time a lot of times you're correcting massive fites even if that's not a word uh not in this case well I was coached by pet so I will uh just as a sort of a preamble to this I am not going to glean over a lot of actual history uh because there's a lot of it and uh I don't feel like I need to sort of repeat it to this group because you're very familiar with the industrial history of the town and all the personages and stuff so I'm not going to get too involved in that uh so next slide please magic person so I I was hired to do an up a uh update of the survey and uh these are the what the surveys looks like uh from this one is from 1984 majority of them were done in the 1980s uh there were some done periodically between 1984 and the present due to sort of like individual projects maybe there was a uh like some kind of environmental review project or tax credit project or something triggers MHC to demand another form but the majority of the forms were done in the 1980s some even earlier uh tend to be two-page documents uh with the historic photo or the photo which is historic now but at the time but still serve as an Excell excellent resource uh next slide please uh so thanks to lots of technology these are that's the same form form so it's gone from two pages to whatever that is that's 14 pages uh much to do with just the availability of research uh ancestry.com and newspapers.com just have sort of blown up the availability of information uh uh in terms of sort of the written documentation aspects and then in this case you can see like the blue there's a lot of blueprints that are available at an archiv in Boston um things like online sandborn Maps historic postcards newspapers.com has access to not only the written articles but ads and maybe like artist Renditions of proposed buildings uh so there's just uh a lot more information out there to enhance uh the product uh to add to that deed research in the state of Massachusetts is a wonderful thing uh because it's all online and it's easy to go from one owner to the next unlike say up in Vermont where you have to go and pull out the books and do it and it's very time consuming so it's uh it's kind of fun to do it in Massachusetts next slide please H so example of the newspapers that are available online uh not only are they available online but say 20 years ago you actually had to read every single thing on that but now you can do word searches and makes it a lot easier and a lot quicker and you're not next yeah so you're not sort of sitting behind a micro machine for days on end trying to get the information uh other availability sensus dat that's marriage data that's all online so once again you don't have to go into the CL town clerk's office city clerk's office and find the information directories which are fantastic in terms of uh determining who occupants were of buildings uh at good different periods of history and uh ual residents of buildings too so great resources next slide please and then census data which uh is great just for determining the size of family who lived there what years if they have borders uh also they their immigration history is also often highlighted there so you get a sense of when they came to America where they came from uh their professions where they worked so uh just great great amount of data available right there so that's why it goes from two pages to 14 pages is just the the amount of information next slide please uh so uh a lot of you know the one of the uh target areas was the the national register District um I've heard you talking about it just in this meeting alone uh this using uh Maps like 1858 map gives you uh building Footprints and also owners so uh just it's a great way to so it's a great way to so when you're going through the deeds and then you can sort of cross reference with the names here and most of the time they match up sometimes there's a tenant that's listed on the maps versus the actual owner but more times than not the uh the owner of the house is the one written there next slide please a bird's eye view from 1877 although a birds eye view is a very artistic uh interpretation of a of a a given city or town they're pretty accurate they're very very reliable sources of information uh some people sort of poooo them because of the because it's a bird's eye and obviously didn't go up there and take do it but uh they there's a lot of work went into to these at the time and I love them so it's always nice to have a town and then 1929 map um lot sort of just showing again property owners and uh just sort of showing the process uh next slide please uh just some of the buildings uh that uh we focused on the buildings that you're all familiar with next slide oh things that have changed since the national register nomination is some buildings have gained historic significance since the the nomination uh these buildings I can't do the math in my head right now I can't remember if they're contributing or non-contributing I imagine they were non-contributing yeah uh so in since the 50 years being the threshold uh these are buildings that are worthy of the examination and perhaps Merit as well uh that's sometimes reaches some some contention uh and also the area right here is an area focused in on as well so just a general update uh next slide please and uh so probably be flying through a lot of slides uh sandborn Insurance Maps great sources often uh show great for showing the evolution of a building uh da I can't remember for Greenfield but maybe there was six iterations of them from say the 1880s through 1948 so a great way to uh look at the additions on buildings and great way to actually get a dates on them uh the ma Masonic Hall and several of the buildings do have blueprints on file at the Massachusetts uh Department of uh Building Inspections uh all rolled up and uh was able to retrieve those for probably like six or seven other properties here in town tend to be commercial or institutional buildings they don't really have any for residences but still um very useful and uh great just get them from uh to get them available excuse me to get them available to the public because they're sitting rolled up in some basement somewhere in Boston and I think it's just great to be able to sort of get them somewhere where people can see them a little easier because it is a bit of a process to uh gain access to them it's just sort that Masonic Hall at Grand the grand Meeting Hall upstairs is quite fancy the blueprints you just showed with the sweeping staircases and the big thing it was very very fancy and I have I didn't go inside any building still there yeah yeah yeah it's still there but they chopped it up when they did the the he me place up there but nonetheless you can still see the framework of it right uh so buildings didn't do because we lost some buildings next slideer ancient an right uh it's so another part of the the goals the objectives one was the U the downtown here another one was the Industrial sites in Greenfield so I targeted several of those sites here on Sanderson Street power Court in the bottom right and then Rell Street I believe on the top top right and uh did uh history on uh the industries that were there and the various it's kind you definitely have to weave through the tap and die industry of who's owning what and changed Chang in the paper today changing today yeah all right down add another chapter to it but uh it gets a little bit complicated in trying to figure out where's where next slide please uh some other uh of the industrial buildings Hope Street tolentine Building Olive Street bottom left is Chapman Street and piure Street fantastic building um Here's Hope Street some buildings change the building picture there is a lot different than the building you see there so once again you can use something like the bird's eye to uh see that I the bird's eyes like 1877 and then you could look at a say a 1901 sandorn and see that the footprints totally different helps you sort of nail down uh the date of the changes not to mention that the new these changes for these Mills were pretty well documented in the newspapers were big events with sort of massive front page stories next slide please um and then uh streets escaping me right now where I am but uh me meets me thank you he's I did that on purpose an opportunity yeah yeah good job well done uh once again it's building that has evolved great building great site great organization uh and you can see that the site has changed there just even with like the bridge as well H next slide please oh yeah well and then up on Federal Street uh you have the benefit of historic photos like this one there show the evolution of the building you can see that uh between now and when the historic picture was taken there was that out building there was also considerable more structures off to the left if I'm looking at the right that might even be the right view but uh then Hope Street was another one great right couldn't get much closer to the street right there and as you can see it's always been right there next to the street another great site next slide please uh things like the uh the PowerHouse uh you can go between the 1902 picture on the top and 1948 picture and see that that building just completely changed and uh and it's thanks to the sometimes those changes in the case of the PowerHouse there's actually a lot of historic photos uh I think there was a history of power in Green Field I can't remember what the source was but really had had pictures of this structure but uh if you didn't really have the 1902 map you could easily just assume that the present building was there the whole time but it definitely got a change probably a total different building I don't know any evidence of the original one um and then if you can see this is Sanderson Street just going from left to right and then down you can see how that complex just took on evolution is quite fascinating just looking at how it evolved and all the infill new structures uh enough to you you could go in deeper on the history of that in terms of documenting every single aspect in the case of this building I did a building form now there's a building forms and area forms most of the projects here not almost all of them were buildings this one was an area form I think got two are fs and uh in this case we're even though that looks like a lot more buildings uh it really just came down to three sort of succinct block of buildings that as you can see from these Maps there's a lot of additions and other parts of the structures that serve different purposes of uh for the for the for the manufacturing going on there uh next slide please and then also the availability of blueprints this is uh blueprints for the same site uh showing the uh the new addition that went on on the top right corner the uh of the main block next slide and then Hope Street uh that was the third uh aspect of this uh project uh there was a fourth aspect it was uh documenting africanamerican sites in Greenfield um we started off doing it we had I had information giving addresses of African-Americans in Greenfield uh but discovered through the research that because of we had actual street addresses you know 24 Hope Street or something like that but street addresses change over time uh so I couldn't I couldn't positively say that this was the house that they lived in because the houses changed name uh Street numbers uh in a lot of cases they were not the owner so they weren't on the Deeds so it was a case of tenants so require that aspect of it does require a little more information to do like a full sort of Deep dive into African-American houses in Greenfield having said that I was able to find the some of the houses that they lived in during my Hope Street analysis and so it was high I noted those facts in the in the building forms I don't believe there was ever a black section of town anyway it was an Irish section of town but not a black section where was the Irish section chief side in that same area down farther so and so in the case of heaps the the bird's eye in the previous uh slide showed sort of sporadic housing but by 1948 you can get a sense yeah so you can see sort of the the North End was a little more dense but as you move down uh to the left South uh there's less housing but still pretty significant 1877 uh next slide and then 1948 different orientation apologize for that uh but you can still get the sense of just uh it becomes much a much denser Street uh next slide please and this some of the houses that were documented on there the church is pretty cool and then during the preliminary research this was uh not identified in initially but as I did a windshield survey and uh was looking for buildings to get to the 140 resources that I was to do I identified Water Street Meridian Street as a potential site uh I chose it just because of sort of the unit there especially Water Street just sort of this one dead end street with series of homes um kind of standing alone out there in the middle of nowhere and also very close Pro proximity to the mill that used to be yeah that's where the Smoke's coming from yeah so my initial thought doing when I first jumped into this I like well this may be uh sponsored housing this could be workers housing built by the uh the mill I didn't really F I found that the mill owned the land at some point and then dis first it but it wasn't there wasn't any evidence that the mill like built the series building they wer to cookie cutter houses they were all different yeah exactly all very different but still captured those structures uh there's 1895 map The Mill in the very bottom right corner but showing uh showing uh some of the residents fitzgeralds were prominent on that street some of your Irish people may have moved over there uh 1918 showing a little more development next slide and some of the houses on on Water Street and a little bit of Meridian the Meridian okay so recommendations I did some national register recommendations uh based on uh on my initial research to te building not only a lot all the buildings that I do recommend or will have significance under uh Criterion uh a a or its contribution to Greenfield's historic I mean industrial history and then some cases uh the uh also the architecture of the uh of the structures themselves the toil tee building is is sort of tutor Revival stick work type of look that I don't think there's any other in Greenfield maybe there are but there is a house on High Street but very not not a massively represented Style New England really right so very cool and then over on Arch Street the tap and die structure just showing some of the resour the maps that I used so you recommended to be put on the national register even though it's really been all potential I'm not saying they are slam dunks I'm just saying maybe you'd want to look at these as potential I mean they do warrant they've all definitely warrant MHC agreeing they want a concurrence from them and yes you know in the toil tee building it has replacement windows uh this building there's uh definitely the covering up of the windows and there a lot of cases you do have unsympathetic additions uh so those do impact the Integrity of the buildings but having said that if there was a tax credit project down the road uh these would all be great candidates for uh uh somebody to invest in the buildings and take advantage of the tax credits and bring some cases bring the buildings back to some state of better integrity and that was kind of my thought process in these because there are I mean the tax credit projects are used so much on um industrial buildings reuse of industrial buildings uh this building on the other hand doesn't have really any questions of its historic Integrity it's uh fantastic yeah and has a great history another build you know this building's fine and has already been Tastefully redone uh some of the associated buildings on Hope Street um have been altered significantly uh once again just worth taking a look at uh Sanders Street Greenfield tap and die great building the building on the far right fantastic building Federal Street uh had serve two purposes sort of the main block one silver smith Factory and then the second one was the Moran sun does have a lot of additions on the Federal Street side so uh definitely warrants additional research that determine whether all those that work on the Federal Street side especially that sort of long Atrium type Edition what kind of impact that would have on the Integrity uh yeah so not uh not not everyone is a slam dunk obvious one but just ones to put on the radar having said that so many of the like say like hope so many of like the residential buildings have been changed so much due to replacement siding and windows and additions that uh they uh there's no really no chance so this sort of the best of the lot say uh so some other recommendations Beyond National register ones uh there's opportunities for the the mission to fund similar projects to this one uh and we can just go through the slides I have them sort of highlighted in the next slide uh so we due to the availability of well due to the amount of buildings I was hired to do where I didn't get all of Hope Street and I think it would just be wise just to get all of Hope Street and just sort of just finish that uh because uh we ended there we ended at a certain spot and there's several more buildings uh so many uh sort of residential districts on basically the north side of Green Field uh definitely would be great to do some additional research on those to see um if it was the work of a single developer and just the whole sort of story behind a lot of these houses so similar size similar setbacks sometimes you have similar architectural style some a lot of times it's different architectural Styles but from the same era and just great representations of the the architecture of that period uh next slide and a lot of these are sort of the same storyline here Street uh has a great collection of buildings next slide uh upper Meridian Street collection of houses North Meadows these are I didn't uh part of my uh recommendations is perhaps a AR same way we did an industrial survey maybe an agricultural survey at Greenfield and I didn't go out and take pictures of every single agricultural building I did do some preliminary research and provided a preliminary list of what I deem to be architectural buildings based on Google Earth uh but uh would it would be a good sort of multi multiple property survey sort of capturing the agricultural history because he've done such a good job with the industrial history don't want to leave the agricultural part behind uh potential NR nominations once again this is is just uh uh not based on a lot of research at all so you might have some things that pop out in your head right away that say yeah no this's not going to work uh so we'll just poit seat Tower I believe it's not on the actal register oh yeah it should be yes I think it's a great one next slide please uh Power Square is a a great collection of probably work like I feel like going back to what you said same building stock and uh the houses are much more cookie cutter in that area so I think you'd have maybe a story line that reflects uh indust the the company's building of the homes or some little more involvement and perhaps a higher percentage of workers actually living in the buildings great little area there up in Highland uh I didn't spend too much time up there but just a great collection of higher home boom around 1900 1890 when when got really a lot money and built those houses up there yeah amazing collection bosses lived up there yeah and then I feel like middle management lived here right around the corner and houses are sort of right in between next slide please uh Factory Hollow uh that was part of the original that was suggested as part of the industrial survey but there wasn't really a uh industrial site but to down you do have uh this collection of tapes sort of at the uh the far end of it Congress Street uh if I remember correctly this is probably a lot larger area than just Congress Street uh but just so many generally speaking my first impression when I came to this town was like wow there's a lot of great residential historic districts here and sort of figure out boundaries and try to sort of parse it out in terms of a logical way to do it from a survey point of view and from a narrative point of view see uh there's a there's a Encyclopedia of American architecture and if you look in that book you can find an example of almost everything in there in Greenfield I can believe it everything from Egyptian Revival to whatever Frank lyd WR copycats it's great I can see Erin's getting a little nudy right I know nothing about these houses that no I mean I don't know that's the only view ever have that house uh some thematic studies I suggest looking at some early 20th century housing developments like those that I've uh already pointed out uh agricultural corridors and uh properties another thing to look at and then further uh delving deeper into the black studies uh study uh aspect of the project next slide please uh these are some of the farmsteads next slide please more farmsteads and then neighborhood studies uh we've I've already kind of discussed this but there's some uh some some target areas that you could look into deeper next slide please High Street love High Street for the simple reason that all the house a certain section of High Street as you can see on the left map the houses are angled or the streets angle to the house it's just just the layout caught my attention right away how they're perfectly sort of laid out at an angle going up the road and they have just just sort of not a square front yard but sort of a trapezoidal one or you know I'm saying but had caught my eye and L to know more about that Rell Street you can keep on going these are sort of same storyline Chestnut Street and then post-war residential neighborhoods much to some people's sugar in uh these are now historic houses that need to be documented Bri [Music] 197 right sounds like I oakill Acres like once again I don't know everything about in terms of Integrity of these places and the exact construction dates things like that but you have a lot of them and is that my last slide that's it so you told me to hurry up and I hurried up thank you so much we have another yeah and um Brian if if there was a I don't know maybe the historical society would want to bring you back or something I mean it wouldn't be part of your consult yeah consultancy but I think it's just really great yeah hour long version of this for the hisorical I could focus on 1975 oh yeah something I can do is is there a qu am I done or you questions or no I think we're all just so thrilled that you you applied for this job you got it and you did such a great job and well you have a lot more that you can do yeah which do we go to the back of the line for MHC and just wait until I haven't worked a lot years I don't I think it's I think they look at it geographically like they want to represent the state well and um it's just like whoever application yeah it's a matching Grant okay well that was faul great job thank you okay and without further Ado let's hear from Connecticut River servy and I'm really sorry uh that you've had to wait so long not very fair said 15 minutes I was I think is talking to you yes Athena yeah I think she's okay okay Ka Brian and also the Greenfield uh historical commission for all your work on this and also I'd like to appreciate uh Massachusetts historical commission for their Grant yeah and yes we will apply again good he Athena thanks Athena okay so uh we had heard from Connecticut River in November about the Wy Russell Dam and the Mill Street Dam and we had some questions so we back to hopefully answer our questions and possibly have us uh exess a different opin the last time um I'm Alex harell I live in Hasting Street in Greenfield um I'm working with the Connecticut Rivers Conservancy uh as a consultant um I'm a fish biologist by trade but have gotten dabbling into engineering and and uh restoration and other projects um I will acknowledge that Rebecca Todd is here uh who's director for CRC so if you have any good questions for her she can uh answer those I did have a presentation um I don't know if it's sharable um I've got it on a thumb drive here if we want to load it up right uh we can't do it on any Municipal computers the th okay well I don't know I sent it I sent it send it to Eric right well to you to Eric to everybody who was on the last thread I think I might have it but okay um let me see all right well while while they're uh pulling that up I'm going to pass these around um the first one uh is basically just a ky blow sure about the project a little bit more detail than we gave last time and then the second one that I'm passing around is um uh pretty much a list of answers to all of your questions or at least most of your questions that we had last um there was a little bit of confusion about the project and what it's about and what it's actually going to be done um part of that was from reporting in the reporter um so um I want to set set the record straight you can read through through all those at at your leisure um I've also given them to the recorder so they can get it straight next time too um so uh without my PowerPoint I I can do it without it um but um be great if if I if I had it um I've only got a few few minutes um so uh there it is great great trying to get it bigger sorry yeah if you just go to slideshow that should yeah there we go okay fabulous so um thank you Aon we we have a a a project uh moving forward here there's an MOA now signed between the city of Greenfield in CRC um and we've had a sort of a perfect storm of deteriorating dams um now support from the city um because of the state of the dams um and now some funding opportunities that um all really push us toward dam removal as a solution to this this problem um we've also got support now from some of the resource agencies the tribes and some NOS who've um long supported this this project in the past um it's aligned with river and fish restoration but we see it as more than that um that's why we're here today because we know um participation by our historic commission is is critical for this so next pleas um what we're looking for at least in the near term is a letter of support uh for a funding proposal we're looking to get some funding on this um to the tune of about $5 million that's what it's going to take to do all this um and having letters of support is critical through those proposals we really need people saying yes this is a good idea um and it it shows a a lot of confidence in the in in what we are doing um we're also looking for your input um should we go forward with this this dam removal pro project um there's some decisions that have to be made about how to commemorate the dam they're Associated his history um there's also some you know public uh public input that's going to be part of that process um but we want to be working with the historic commission um if we move forward with that next slide please um uh Tim black asked earlier about um history about Fisheries um on the on the river um I dug back a little bit uh back pretty far um and we did meet with some of the tribal members uh about a month or so ago um and they gave us some feedback about what they knew um so next slide um and so they damned it up then well kind of yeah for a while fish trap um so there there is now uh at least that's been reported To Us by the P tribes that there's evidence of an indigenous fishwear um in the Green River um that was basically made uh visible by uh the flooding that happened after the pumping station Dam failure in 2011 um and they recovered some uh indigenous artifacts that were pretty much you know telling that this was this was actually a fish gr next where yeah where is that um I'm kind of reluctant to say that because they they have entrusted us with this information um you could ask them the tribes are the tribes are um very cautious about sharing um locations of some oh I know yeah unfortunately uh there are people who intentionally try and desecrate tribal sites oh people look for artifacts yeah big for our yeah yeah so um Ino they also told us that there there probably were other fishing sites um and there may be evidence of those uh if somebody backed dug back far enough into some um uh land transfers Deeds um there may be some language in there that basically indicates that someone so sold their property which had a fish you know native fishing wear on it it could be there next please um and um those sites may have been exactly where the Mill Street Dam and Wy Russell Dam are now because there are there's ledge there and ledge makes a good sort of choke point in the river where it's it's much easier to fish at um and so that's kind of partially their their reasoning for that next please um so again this is all comes from um these folks that we talked to Joe graveline David Brule and Rich Holk of uh of of these indigenous groups next please um they're not uncommon uh this is one that's on uh the schet river in Swansea New Hampshire um it's been documented it's been archaeologically investigated um and this is far up River um most lot of people say oh fishing wears they got to be down near the coast not necessarily so if there were fish in the rivers people fish for them um and um this is this is all that may may remain uh for them next please um in terms of post contact what we would think of as historic Fisheries there's not much evidence uh next slide next yeah um there's virtually no documentation of any commercial Fisheries uh except for up at Turner Falls at the at the Great Falls there that was a biggie in terms of the commercial fishing site uh on the Green River less so but again um at least uh about the time the dams were being built um people would build uh wears usually on top of Native American sites um and basically try to to uh exploit them like this is an eel Weare in Maine that was done same thing was built on a on a Native American Site next please um there may have been artisanal Fisheries for local consumption um those aren't really documented very well um next please um but there's again may still be some records I found kind of one uh go next next one please um this is in the um Thompson's uh history of Greenfield and there's an excerpt here about a salmon trying to to leap over a dam which is probably a dam at the site of the Wy Russell Dam at one point um and being a salmon it took him a while to get over it um but um um these sorts of things do exist but you have to dig deep for them they be in newspaper articles things like that which are a little bit harder to harder to search um next please um and then there a few historical records uh from the 1800s and mid 1900s just basically talk talking about fishing in the Green River um and most accounts have said that it was pretty good mostly for trout things that people took home and ate um but um there's there's anecdotal evidence that that people people fished it next please um it's still quite a good recreational fishery um it's a cold water fish resource uh which um we have mostly here in western Mass and um it's been stocked with trout since the mid 1900s by both Massachusetts and Vermont um so people fish it um it's very high high water water quality um there's a lot of fishing that goes on I haven't seen too much down in Greenfield but I I've seen a few folks including myself upper reaches there upper reaches are are the for brookies brook trout rainbow trout um before the cupboard Bridge before the dam there no below the reservoir there there's trout all throughout throughout the river next please that size yeah well that's a big one brook trout that's a big but um the current state of the dams uh I want to talk about this a little bit because if we if we're thinking restoration um there are definitely some some challenges um the Wy Russell um there's not much left um and this is a picture I took this fall um where you can actually see in behind uh where the concrete was poured in 1938 um and most of the The Crib work is is rotted out Timber cribs rotted out why did you take that I waited in the river and took a took a picture of it because it was there was drought conditions well it was very low flow remember we had very dry dry flow so now you can see actually see under the dam the stone work is gone there's not much of the Timber crib work it's mostly concrete it's been now rated as poor condition uh in the most recent safety inspection which is a big concern for the city um and it's going to cost 500 to 900k just to stabilize the structure that's without restore to whatever what one would want to restore it to um so big cost and then once once you do restore it you got to maintain it and that's also a big CA especially if you're talking about any kind of Timber crib structure that maintenance costs for those are much much higher than a conventional concrete Tamp next please um The Mill Street or electric light and power Dam um it's rated as fair condition but as we all know there was some recent issues there's some been a void created under the concrete Dan that had to be patched up uh at Great expense to the city um and there are additional deficiencies um that have to be rectified at some point and to fix those point8 to 1.3 million to to just repair um so um our goal at least for this Dam um Wy Russell it's going to it would be come completely out um Greenfield electric light and power Dam we wouldn't remove it totally um but we would lower the crest about 6 and 1/2 ft um and then you put Downstream of the crest sort of a rock ramp a ramp of Boulders or whatever to to create more of what's called a boulder riffle um and once you do that if you achieve the the goals you want to it becomes non-jurisdictional which means you don't have any more rate maintenance responsibility so the city likes that because now they don't have a dam anymore there's reasons for doing that I won't get into those it's too technical at this point um but um part of that Boulder riffle um could also benefit places like Museum of our industrial Heritage in that um the Reconstruction could basically um uh support uh the bank erosion there to try to offset the back erosion that the Museum's en encountering now um and it's also opport to maybe um uh get at some artifacts that we know are in the bank itself that were just kind of cast off and thrown in the river there are artifacts back in that in that bank that could be excavated that could be saved um for whatever purpose I ask a question well we actually have a Time problem here um I know almost done yeah cany finish yes he can finish I just told Eric um they're GNA wait to start the next meeting okay great okay so we got you an extra five um so next next slide please um so questions about if the dams are removed how can they be commemorated um we talked about kiosks uh you've told us that a plaque is not enough we agree and there's a lot more that can be done and you're really only limited by your imagination um and um some of the ideas um you know uh artifacts to be displayed either at the sites or as part of the Museum of our industrial Heritage um one idea would be to reconstruct the dam uh in the dry somewhere um to be determined um that could become a kiosk that could be an an educational tool whether there's enough original Timbers left to do that from the original Dam who knows but there's no reason why one couldn't um reconstruct it out of out of new Timbers um and use the same construction techniques it would be a great educational tool to show people how these things were actually built which really is pretty incredible given that what they what they endured for for many many years so next please so uh finally um we're we're on a short fuse here our proposal for this funding is due February 10th um and um we won't know until we get the funding for 3 to six months but the good part is we wouldn't start anything on the project until uh a year from now so that gives us time U to plan to converse with you guys to talk about what parts um would we want to commemorate if if the dams came out um and we can also go after other funding um if this funding cycle doesn't uh pay for everything there's some historical commemoration that that needs to be done we can talk about that WR a grant um certainly us what NOA that's the uh no National Oceanic and M Atmospheric Administration bipar bipartisan infrastructure law that's a chunk of infrastructure money that's available um so we can get um quite a bit we're targeting right now about five to six million that's our goal um so um what we're asking for from the commission is a letter of support now I know that you will want to deliberate over something like this before you make any kind of decision I didn't expect any kind of an answer today we be the next meeting that's right and we could do it then yeah could do it at the next meeting I mean you make a motion to no we'll talk about it at the next meeting well well you could make a motion to vote do you want to write a letter of support or vote to table until the next meeting so you could you we don't have to take action at all right just he just somebody I'm just saying somebody could right I but I'm not necessary you know I think it would be I'm a big fan of the project I think everybody knows that um and I think you know no we're not well some in general some we need to discuss it more but I do know the that the proposals do right after the next meeting yes so yes so we could depending on the deliberation we'll take action immediately for you yeah it would be very very helpful for us we could do it if we're going to do it we can do it at the next meeting yeah um one of the things that that we've been told by the funders is you know this the show of support from historical Commission in these cases is is huge it really helps well we certainly we'll talk about it at the next meetings no doubt about it'll be on the agenda can I entertain a motion to move it to the deliberation put it on the agenda for the next meeting yeah yeah all those in favor yeah we can do that okay great okay can I ask you to consider something while you're thinking about this sure the the area on the Green River from the Wy Russell Dam and the parking lot there across from the Arbors on up to the present uh place of the uh Power Company up up at the other Bridge uh all along that right hand side of the river along the Eastern side of the river there there's a road that's discontinued along there for part of it and then the rest of it is overgrown on that bank that would make a section of the Green River if you guys would throw your weight behind that that could be used for picnicking it could be used for looking at the river it could be could be really developed in a way that's been considered by the charet that was held a number of different there's Maps there's there's all kinds of information and nobody has ever pulled a lever on that deal and if you guys were to throw your weight behind something like that then that would make a lot of difference and then and the head of it could be this information about the the Dan there has already been conversation about also working with Christie at parks about something just like that we've already talked about it I Pro like that understand I understand and and I'm just trying to get these guys to throw their weight behind it contic Conservancy is 100% behind public access on the I understand that but the the fact is that I've lived in this town for 35 years and for 30 years people have been talking about doing stuff on the Green River and to this point nothing has ever been so let's try and change that nothing has ever been done so if the city was to do something and you guys were do something I'd be absolutely over the moon listen we got a Starbucks nobody ever thought that would happen backwards try to talk about something that's good for the there may be other questions that come up um Alex and I are happy to come back and and chat with you or if questions come up um you can filter them through me I can set up a group chat and we can do it like that as well okay okay yeah because and I hate to rush everyone but I think the information's we've got enough information hold on J can I make yeah we are make it fast I'm teror pain I [Music] own yes appreciate that you're taking the historical aspects seriously my concern is I'm want that place is not only the museums it's a place of business we have 10 tenants there that make their living there come there every day um I just went to a little horror show with that damn repair because they basically commandeered her parking lot and disrupted business for several days I was happy to help but it kind of out of nowhere I can't let that happen so have you been anywhere in the in the process where you've looked at how logistically how you're actually going to get in there and do these things we're we're not there yet yeah but this is why we have conversations with you at this point in time we got to get the money first yeah then we talk about how to do it and then we figure out access a you know I'll entertain a motion to adjourn we didn't get our whole agenda covered um but we'll do we'll transfer those to the new a second okay