##VIDEO ID:RJJ0h46M6Zo## calling the committee chairs meeting to order at 6:23 by my [Laughter] watch um this meeting is be being recorded by committee chairs if any other persons present are doing the same you must notify the chairperson at this time the purpose of this meeting is to prepare agendas for subcommittees for Council consideration no discussion or comments will be entertained unless requested upon by the committee chairs all right so we need to take a roll call of members just want to put on the oh putting on the record that the Greenfield Recorder is here recording leave out the part in between Leave Out All the part in between okay that wasn't on the record okay okay clerk people are you ready for a roll call loed in online so we don't need a roll call but we do need to check attendance yeah slipped out president wandalowski here vice president Garrett here councelor Bullock here councelor gool here councelor toronzo I'm here councelor Gilmore here Madame vice president you have a quorum I'm sorry Madame President you have a quorum so I don't know how these meetings work um and so I'm G to rely on you all to help at least through this one if that's okay um I know the purpose is to move things onto the agenda and kind of go over what's on your individual agendas correct yep um so is the first order of business to kind of go through these president's notes okay fantastic I just want to make sure I'm on the same page notes are the new items that have come in to be officially dispersed out to committee all right so the first item of business is an issue regarding the environmental health and noise impact caused by the idling trains as requested by the committee chairs at the December 3rd meeting that was me um I think we will leave this here but not move it to a committee yet it is being dealt with by the western Mass delegation there was it's been up and down had some success and then it happens again and so yeah the B yep so let's just leave it here and and potentially it'll chalk up to something in the next few months sounds good second item is discussion on the appointment of a new parliamentarian this was submitted by council president bottomley at the August committee chair's meeting I'll give you my perspective on this um so there have been two names that have been floated as potential parliamentarians so one of them is David singer and the other one is Isaac Mass I don't know if this committee chairs if you all have been asked for suggestions have the names been floated as in they're willing to do it or they would have the skill to do it I know at least one is willing to do it and the second one I don't know if they're willing but has so both have skill yeah I this is one that I know up until now I hadn't heard we had someone willing but I think it's important we have a parliamentarian um so if it's a reality I would love to move this forward and appoint whoever is willing or maybe we can have an alternate situation if they're willing to do that it's not really a paid position there's a very small stipend that goes along with it um for consistency I would suggest having one person that way you have I mean you have one person's view of Robert's roles um rather than possible competing opinions um perhaps you should invite them to speak at next month's committee chairs to find out if they're interested and willing um to attend all Council meetings and sit and listen to the debate and oine according to Robert's Rules and not their personal opinions um but it's really up to the council how you want to proceed are there other names that we should be considering I just want to make sure as as long as we're thinking about moving forward um and especially the counselors who have a lot more longevity on this Council might have other folks that you've seen over the years so I think um parliamentary procedure is kind of a niche skill um I don't imagine there are a lot of folks in Greenfield who would really qualify as parliamentarians I feel like I know Roberts rules really well but I would not want to put myself in that position unless it's one thing to chare a meeting but I wouldn't want to be the person really trying to so I mean I I think you're probably not going to find many more folks is it what qualifies when that's a parliamentarian is there like a certification are these just folks who have been around Robert's rules for while I know Isaac's a lawyer is David singer also a lawyer okay so like a lawyer who has done committees before basically is what we're looking for is that yeah so there this is maybe gon to come out a little weird there are real parliamentarians in the world um like they have them in the state level and the federal level and um I feel like I know Robert's Rules relatively well however being the one to say this this and this is another another step um I'm comfortable in some things but also appreciate having someone more knowledgeable to bounce things off of and um discuss with but yes there there are real parliamentarians that are certified and licensed I don't believe and I could be wrong but I don't believe our former parliamentarian or the two people we're speaking of tonight are certified parliamentarians they just have a wealth of knowledge would anybody object to me reaching out to both of them to assess their interest and then we can go accordingly great it's true that's the spirit he got two meetings all right at the third item Mo motion for all right so third item motion for reconsideration on fy2 5-24 do1 zoning Amendment section 200 to 40 multif family dwelling subsection B procedure paragraph 4 submitted by councelor wahab minhas on December 20th can this go straight to council yeah we don't yeah we don't need to discuss it again okay perfect so let's do it all right uh next item is mayor's appointments for for the elderly and disabled taxation fund do I need to read the names of everybody okay usually goes to recation great so let's send it too I just isn't an's agenda already set I thought foro yeah right that's why I don't I understand we're reading it I just I'm sure there is plenty um so zoning Amendment section 20056 accessory dwelling units for the revised under the affordable homes act this will go to EDC great uh may I ask a question yes you may um so this is additional language that is substantively different than what has been before EDC before so if you are going to consider this it would need to have another public hearing another you know it had to go through the process again yeah we have to start from the beginning with this right and it also has to be voted by February 5th yeah I don't know how we do all that I did email the the state to ask how they expect and I I asked in the meeting that we had with the state how they expected us and the respon I didn't get an email response since this guidance came down but what we got in the meeting was like you'll have Guidance with plenty of time um and now we don't so I'm waiting to see like do we need to hold a special meeting to deal with this before February 5th but there's other towns that aren't going to be able to deal with this cuz they don't have their town meeting until Springtime so I'm assuming we're going to go through the process with this and we're going to submit late uh but I'm I did email submit late before like we'll just have to have our stuff is going to be after February 5th so because we can't do everything in that short of a time frame so if the council doesn't consider the Adu proposal I'm sorry I can't remember off the top of my head when it was proposed October yeah yeah um the old one are you talking about the old one now right but this is this is amending the old one right so right but because it's so different we have to start again is that true or no so the old one is still out there yeah this is a proposed amendment to that one one oh okay so if you want to vote that old one as amended by February 5th you have to have another public hearing okay and Council needs to vote it before February 5th if the council decides that the old one that's proposed is not going to meet the requirements pass Muster that sort of thing right then it could either be withdrawn to have new language submitted then the process would 100% start again right or it could be left undecided and the timeline for zoning amendments it would die because the timeline died right which is like February 3rd or something February 5th fth February 5th Okay so is there time to have a public hearing on this now before the I don't know when when's the EDC being EDC is like the 14th but then planning is like the 16th I think uh yeah 14 we're 14 and they're 16 I think right now there is not enough time to get a public hearing notice in right because it needs to be posted twice in two successive weeks not less than seven days before yes so I mean I'll email the state again and ask them but like they they decided to do it this way so if we submit our language late but you can't submit it late because it would die from the time um so it can the old one as amended but it hasn't been amended yet I think we want the old one to die and we want to introduce totally new a totally new that's what it sound like yeah or oh God Kathy else can we withdraw the old one yeah so how sub we're Eric said that these are substantive enough changes another public hearing yes yeah and so what would be oh sorry the virtue of withdrawing it versus letting it die is that we' be able to restart the process sooner or is it just kind of six of one half a dozen of the other it's sort of six of one half a dozen of the other if you withdraw it it's clear it's done today okay let's do that yeah I think we should withdraw and start fresh because it is so different and this is the version that we need to pass because it matches state law so that's you know because draft guidance did come out in December um I think we're in the public comment period on it now yes I'm not sure when that ends end of the month maybe I think it was by by February 1 yeah and in that meeting the state officials basically said like we can't change the line because it's in the state law and the legislature would have to change it they also never said like and this is is what's going to happen to you if you don't yeah going say what that that I don't think there's any teeth on the deadline it doesn't mean we should flaunt it wanly um but if there's just logistical issues you know like Town meetings for example this is different but we're doing our best to do it correctly you know so I don't I think it's cleaner to withdraw okay again could someone please if that is going to happen state that specifically we would like to make a motion to withdraw no the requester has to I like to make a motion to withdraw you don't need the motion you just need to say that you withdraw your proposal for thew the Adu proposal okay so then we also have and it's not on here but there is another Adu proposal still out there from a citizen's petition just putting that one out right did we get the public did we get uh that's going to have to be another agenda item uh but I can follow up with the council president now I had requested a um legal opinion about that and I never heard back actually know that I'm now that you're reminding me so you're correct there has not been a specific legal opinion received to my knowledge to my knowledge okay maybe there is I don't know I'll follow up and CC council president and vice president does there need to be a public hearing on the there is we had one okay but the thing is that we believe that and this is we talked to the state about this as well that the language in that is proposal in that proposal is is problematic and would be against the state law so so could you also include the office in any Communications yes definitely okay I always do sorry thank you okay all right so we are resending that one was is withdrawn not happening anymore um and we'll figure the other one out okay yeah the new one will go on the agenda great so next item is the approval of the memorandum of agreement between the city and the Greenfield fire and police signal operators Association I assume that goes to Ways and Means fantastic you okay with this receiving sure great uh and last is transfer 8,000 from veterans department ordinary benefits to veterans department Monument that's us to Ways and Means all right so the next item is the economic development committee agenda yes so we will have take we're going to take from the table the zoning Amendment section 20048 mixed residential business business for discussion we will take from the table the next one FY 25-25 section 20-14 Central commercial district and which one is the one we're removing uh so 20 yeah so 256 we're going to remove from the agenda and we're going to keep 200-7 .18 and we are going to is this a new rooster thing or do roosters just live on my agenda now we're going to take this rooster Situation off the agenda after last month's meeting we we dealt with it right you were yeah you said it we couldn't change it because of the right to farm right yeah right it's the charter or whatever has it in it yeah still needs to be dealt with what so we either have to withdraw it we can't we can't the citizens have to it has to follow the process so thank you um it has to follow the process so EDC should forward a recommendation okay it should come to the council the council should consider it um if the citizens wish to withdraw it all of the the people who sign the petition would need to sign and withdraw okay so let's keep it we'll keep it and make a recommendation this month and are you expecting to send it to council for this month uh I think we should put it on there in case I will talk to um the lead person who was did the petition about withdrawing but okay just a question and I don't know the answer to this honestly are you sure that every single member who every single person who signed the petition would need to sign a petition to withdraw or it's not just the petitioning committe like those 10 members that would need to sign so if memory serves and my memory is not what it used to be um there were under chapter 40a at least 10 people need to sign a petition to submit a zoning Amendment so to have that zoning Amendment withdrawn in the past and it makes sense to me that the 10 who submitted would also need to be withdrawing okay okay not 100 yeah and we had two other discussion items but um honestly I did not have any time to pull the list I I had Co this month so um we can we I would like to hold those other two item discussion items for on February the following month yes please and I am going to excuse myself to go home to my kids and let us know if there's sort of any other stuff bubbling that you're thinking about 642 looking forward oh yeah I'll send you an email there is one all right so too the mayor's appointments are on the agenda all right do you have anything else um percolating for ano not at this time I uh community relations unhoused individuals stay there but all right I mean I don't see any reason why that couldn't just stay on there I don't know if she has anything like she's not here so I don't know if she has anything she however we we can't me she's not like can't yeah want to do that she's not in the bubble uh yeah the only thing I was thinking is maybe that this would be something that might be a Tim limited task force um because I think there was room for that discussion to continue and maybe have some other voices in it yeah it comes up every year and you know unfortunately several years ago we did have a few people die of exposure and it became very very much a public yeah you know and it's not something we've been able to solve and wor about it well yeah given the numbers are going up nationally like we're not going to solve it ourselves but right thinking about how we address the issue as a community at least yeah and I know that in the past um Chief strand's been involved and come and spoken about it um we probably want to have Chief Dodge um are we inviting these people not for the meeting but if this task force idea takes off so maybe at the meeting we can float the idea of a task force that might be the right sheap for it yeah and then the mayor's probably going to want to appoint some folks y so keep the meeting keep the topic it's just discussion go from there sounds good um June 20th sorry January 20th is a holiday so we will have to move to February that's up to you won [Music] well is there like a are we going to run into I haven't looked at the calendar um that's what wondering about presid or holidays in February Martin Luther King Day right but then if we February will be President's Day yes I was like thinking I do have a question as we're looking towards scheduling is uh what specifically was submitted as like what was the proposal or the request I see discussion and I don't see any other documentation underneath and so um in there's the date and then like what EX exactly is being proposed for that date I know that councelor brown can't answer that question right now but do we have information on what the specific request for the conversation was like just a facilitated conversation or to continue the conversation that started in community relations in November to just keep to keep it going y okay so I could also suggest that maybe this just happens at full Council since that's going to be a holiday and I can't what about the 21st the next day yeah because we don't have ways and means we had to move that up to the 14th I'm nervous about having it at full Council I'm not sure if I'm working that conversation discuss full counil no at all guys a task force was very focused and that not yeah not c i mean i moving the meeting and then maybe just like sending an email to folks to see when they're available that just feels like hurting a lot of cats um what's the what's the what would you suggest would be the most efficient way and don't be honest if someone has another specific date that they would like to propose we can find out if um community relations could obtain a quorum but like again any date we can find whether we can have a that you can always have a fully hybrid meeting if we can't find a location okay um so if you have a date you want to propose we can find out if we can you only need three people for a quorum we don't know what the new committee makeup is going to be um so maybe either a new meeting date at the end of January or somewhere in the midst of February when you say fully hybrid you mean hybrid right tot remote not remote I don't know that we can do that I think that I I I want to look at the the new hybrid ordinance but I'm not sure that we can do it just fully remote so it's a loud and open meeting law okay as long as we post it that way okay yeah okay I'm not yeah I will need to look at the the ordinance okay to be I don't want to be the new enforcer I I know that there was a lot of that you saw that that everyone else saw it so that's I don't want to become the new enforcer of of that law but I think that we need to be aware of what that says before okay yeah I heard Tuesday um which you think you may or may not be working let's let's see if we can get a quum okay sorry let's see if we can get a quorum for Tuesday January 21st and then city council meets on the 22nd so if we can city council meets on 15th yeah it's ear it's it's early this month because the first was a Oh okay that's why the 21st open is because we had that would have been ways of me we had to move it for a week well we didn't have to but we were asked to all right we all set with community relations yes I think so all right so we'll move to Ways and Means um yeah we got the items that you were talking about earlier I did get um earlier today uh an email from the new assistant assessor who was requesting um to appear at our next Ways and Means to discuss the potential voting to adopt the maximum allowable property tax exemptions and asked if they could be on our next agenda and if I hadn't looked at this today it would be waiting till February I can I just got it before I got here but I yes you may that should go through the mayor the mayor should be proposing um an exemption it okay should go from the assessors as a recommendation to the mayor and then to the councel so even if they're just wanting to discuss something because it will eventually need to be the recommendation of the mayor yes okay um then forget what I said and I'll respond accordingly to can you send that to us so that we can or when you respond when you respond it to you when you respond could you include the city court Council Office in it sure thank you no problem um Adam yes so the meeting on January 13th for ways and means we do not have a location City Hall is already booked by Human Rights Commission we are trying to communicate and find out from them if they are still meeting if they're not great we can have City Hall um if they are still meeting at City Hall the thought was to go completely remote however um and what I'm confused as to what you're referencing the law change because the state we're still under the state's twoyear extension or whatever for yeah but the council passed a new ordinance last month yeah that that we can't be full I don't recall that wording but okay can't be fully remote I think it was only but if there was a way out if there weren't other applicable spaces correct yeah in the event that a public body required to conduct hybrid meetings has provided public notice of an En upcoming meeting and an emergency subsequently makes either iners access or remote access impossible so it has to be an emergency situation doesn't sound like what's written there that says in the event it was posted as a hybrid meeting and it can't be that's true but if we post it as a fully remote meeting that's moot I right except so except one meeting an executive session the following public bodies shall conduct hybrid meetings for all plenary and committee meetings city council is at the top of that list open meeting law my understanding is like it it sets the umbrella under which we you know state law federal law sets the umbrella we get to choose what we do within that and and this and this question has come up um since passing this I know that the mayor's office asked no one to be honest raised this question in the whole time like what if we can only have the capacity to do it remote it wasn't it hasn't been asked um and because I mean and you know Fernando was like we definitely have the capacity mat we definitely have the capacity so that's what I've heard all year all year long um and I really don't want to be like I'm trying to do the best for everyone I don't I don't want to be like the owner of this ordinance that we pass it together and and an ordinance can be amended but um I will say that the intent of this is that some people need to attend in person some people need to attend remotely um and this is really to to make it access make attending as accessible as possible did Fernando I can't remember give us a bunch of location Alternatives so you know what are our other defaults if City Hall isn't available the the library I know the G the gep building the the problems the yeah we don't have access to the library after hours stupid problem um we have City Hall the fire department is not really ready um and other places that we have met in the past other than John on which requires people to attend to set up technical things which we see how that went tonight um um so there aren't many spaces that have hybrid capability yeah and I'm wishing I was hearing this before we passed it because all I've heard all year is we have the space we have the space it's opening up we have the space so I'm running into this problem with um Capital committee trying to schedule with the Tiff Tiff committee trying to schedule um we're actually I don't know how um we're utilizing this Thursday gset meeting room um for our Capital committee meeting because the town halls City Hall is being used I asked about the library they said there's no after hours on Thursday my question which I still have to bring up to the mayor is it's a public building I don't understand what the hijacking of this building and the use of this building and the use of the library as this clandestine like not public space when it was paid for voted for by the taxpayers paid for by tax dollars and yet there are people who are running these buildings that are just blocking out people from utilizing them and using stupid excuses like oh we're closed well this is closed and we're here right now so why can't we go to the library where there are meeting rooms that are accessible for hybrid meetings I don't care if there's staff there there shouldn't need to be staff there there's no staff at City Hall when we have meetings it's open we go in it gets time locked at a certain time I hope that the library after all that money has the ability to be time locked by technology as well um so I really don't get this protecting our new beautiful buildings from anybody including city employees utilizing it it's it's absolutely ridiculous because this shouldn't as you said this shouldn't be a problem we have the space we have the technology it is the city's technology it's not the the person who runs the senior center or Community Center I won't call polic it's Community Center and it's not the person who runs the libraries baby it's it's the cities and this is now becoming a recurring thing between not only us but other committees because we should be able to have more than one commission or committee meet a night it's that's absolutely asinine for a city to run this way but that's just something bothering is there a calendar that exists showing when room are booked up like how do we where is this information accessible about yeah but they're not all in the same place okay so on our Gmail we we have um ability to see some meeting calendars we have the ability to see John's on we have the ability to see the second floor meeting room um we don't have the ability to see the library so it's not it's not all a One-Stop shop okay so Mike's right siloed right um we could check to see if we could use G set's meeting room I really never thought of them because G said is separate supposedly um we can ask and find out if they are available again I don't know who is there at 6:00 at night if they have doors that lock and unlock I don't have access to that space unless somebody lets me in um but where where would you like us to find a location for this meeting we will we will try to find someplace um do you have a preference do you just want to see if we can call it here and have a meeting here I don't care I just just seems like a stupid problem for us to be having well solvable though it's it's solvable um years ago been Sol well sure so this again one of us will come one of us will set it up one of us will turn this TV on we'll give you instructions on how to shut down lock up and all that kind of stuff and we'll get you going and then you'll just need to lock up and secure the space if John onon is available that's a Monday night I don't know we'll have to check and I will also reach out I mean I will also reach out to Fernando and the mayor to just discuss that we had this conversation and ask what their thought their thoughts are and yeah that makes sense CU I always think think that the mayor is probably the right person to talk to about the library access since they at this meeting talked a lot about spaces that were available so they can grease that wheel okay so I think we're all set as long as we have a location okay um and then we've got the draft of the agenda items all right so we've got the motion for reconsideration we talked about that all good uh mayor's appointments stabilization fund transfer transfer free cast for compensated absences transfer for contract stabilization fund approval of the mo MOA uh with the police signal operators um zoning Amendment 248 are we did we say we're pulling that out no okay the one we had tabled okay then we've got a zoning Amendment 200 20014 Central commercial District zoning Amendment section 2-56 that's the one that is withdrawn okay and then the Adu one CI the second one right okay Act 10 pardon number 10 on the agenda is the second position are we keeping that on does it have to go from committee to the full Council it does right um so yes does it does need to be dealt with um but this is the one that we also wanted to get the legal opinion correct right it's got the same timeline as the other one too it had the public hearing the same date so okay um it right it definitely needs to be dealt with um it does need to be voted by February 5th and we will ask for the legal opinion if right okay just for a point of process if the legal opinion says it's not good we can still vote on it it doesn't pull it and then there's the next right and the last one is zoning Amendment uh Suburban residential Urban residential no allowance for Roosters so we talked about the roosters yeah and Maran was going to communicate with the rooster people rooster but we just have to keep it on okay and then we've got first readings um transfer for the monument and is that it second that are you not ready to adjourn yet did you have a question I had a quick question um I'm sorry I withraw my second sorry to hold this all up I'll withdraw my Mo this is a very so February vacation and April vacation are often times where lots of people are absent because of children and the like um I know that there was discussion at full Council in April of last year I want to say about potentially moving the dates we've never done anything else about that I don't know what it would take to start considering you know the process of maybe doing a different sub I know that based on this meeting the location issue is clearly going to be a big one um but if it's at all possible you know I'm see your hand Kathy and I don't want to keep talking something you're going to say um so this is not on tonight's agenda if we put it on February committee chairs and had a more thorough discussion about what committee chairs would recommend that would be probably a pretty good place to start okay I would love to see that on committee chairs in February we will make it so and I just have one other agenda item for committee chairs February which I'd love to put together kind of a council calendar for the year that just kind of lays out when we think votes are happening for different things right Timmy sent it already well but also there are like with ways and means we know that there's certain votes and things that are going to so just to kind of map out some of the other processes not just like when the Committees vote but the things that we but events that occur timely throughout the year correct oh got you operating budget right tax rate gotcha so we've got sort of a road map that we're looking at for New folks too yeah did you say vations yeah okay that's all I have so vote to adjourn so much I'll second it again all favor yes we're adjourned [Music]