Hello, um, and welcome to the budget, finance, and warrant subcommittee meeting. It is June 22nd, 2026. Um, a chair's statement. This meeting is being recorded by the budget, finance, and warrant subcommittee. If any other persons present are also recording, you
must notify the chairperson at this time. Um, as I am remote, I am handing running the meeting duties over to member Goodwin for ease of logical difficulties. >> Which we're not planning on. No, we just
said >> Uh, we're not having any difficulties. True. >> Roll call. >> But we're less likely to have the technological technological difficulties if we preemptively troubleshoot. So, it's all there as well.
>> Roll call. I'm only here. >> Member Childs. >> I'm here. >> Member Goodwin. >> Here. >> Member Webb. >> I'm here. >> And I would like a motion to, um, suspend Robert's Rules of Order so we can have a conversation about warrants
that goes a little quicker. >> Second. >> Oh, but today is the warrants. >> Oh, no, warrants. >> No, we have, um, transportation replacement plan that's being presented and the bid process education. >> Then I withdraw that.
>> Okay. Well, looks like no members of the public. So, uh, approval of the June 1st draft subcommittee minutes. I move to approve the minutes as presented. >> All in favor. >> I, well, we got to do a roll call.
Member Childs. >> Yes. >> Member Goodwin. >> Member Webb, yes. >> Passed unanimously. Imagine that. Who'd have thought? >> All right, you're up. The transportation replacement plan.
>> Let me get a pen. >> I'm not sure I necessarily want to say I mean the plan what we brought did you bring the age of the vehicles we have or your car? >> So they're all >> Is there I didn't see a packet. >> I can share I can share it with you as
well. >> I I only see in our packet the agenda and the budget and finance minutes from 61 in our packet we received. So we did not just to make note of it we did not receive the transportation plan in advance. >> I already shared it.
>> Did you email it to the whole committee or just the three of us? >> No I just I included the people that were originally on it when I created it the first time so you're not on this one. It was originally sent to Karen last year and then I just updated so that everyone
still has it. But I can also just forward it right now. >> Yeah you can forward it. Should you forward it to the whole? >> Three of us. >> No. Just the three of us. >> I'm doing it now share with them.
>> I don't have any of them. >> No. >> I think I have them. >> You just saved Emily all two times basically. >> But I'm I'm a two not a one. >> Mel good two. >> Angie's already got it? >> Yeah. >> And then
I'm getting an email in here. >> Are you sharing it like in an email or like >> No, it's it's going to >> Please send it via Doc. >> It's going to It's going to come to you in an email in a second. >> Okay. >> I was going to send it to Ann, but she's not in there. There she is.
So, you should get an email with this. >> Okay. Yeah, so this is just the information. Is Is this showing the replacement plan? >> Okay. Well, what I wanted to say is what we talked about like we are seeking now a
proposal. We have got quotes for replacing three. >> Okay, which three are you hoping to replace? Would be my next question. >> Yeah, I was Well, we'll get to that if I can just finish with it. So, that we're looking at doing two to three a year.
This year obviously we're looking at because of that we have the funds in the revolving account chapter in the revolving we would use that. Like we were saying or like it came out from Rich De Bree's report exploring leasing. And then the the
next step would be then to incorporate this because these are vehicles into the district's capital plan. That we would include so that's where I would say the replacement plan I'd say formalizing would be to look at two to three vehicles a year.
This being year one to use our revolving account funds for leasing and then once the mayor comes out again with the capital request. Because as she mentioned last meeting vehicles need to be approved by the city.
So we would include that in our capital. Any vehicle purchase or lease with capital funds. The there is a definition and I would have I would have to find it. Um, we've had this discussion with I remember when Mayor Martin was here to
as far as when you look at the definition that it's depending on useful life and cost. So since useful life for these vehicles would be these would be a capital lease. Well so I would say the an argument would be made that being
capital equipment vehicles in a capital lease and therefore capital funds could be used for them. Okay. So I guess our our official I'm going to see if I can find on the city's website as far as their definition of
capital. And we've been working with So these >> are the only vehicles that are going to be in Greenfield that are leased? >> I don't know what the other can uh can >> I think >> the department of uh >> So, I'm just
I mean, we're entering into a new thing. It's a good thing. I'm just We're just entering into a new concept. Which is, you know, Do we have an I My question still is which ones are we looking to replace?
>> We'd be looking to replace the 2019 Dodge with the last three of the license plate, 329. So, any of them >> So, that's 329? >> Yes. The ones with >> plate number, the last three numbers. >> Mhm.
>> So, it's number It's letter H. >> Yep. >> Line H. >> Yep, I found it. I just put a yellow mark by it. >> As well as 343. >> Right below it? >> Mhm. >> And that would be the hope for this year? >> Yes. >> And then you said one more?
>> Yeah. Um so, then it would have to go to 202. 103 202. >> Line >> 202 even though we're looking at 156 that has higher mileage than that one? >> Yes, because that has no issues other
than it needed a transmission replacement, which was done. >> And then the following year we'd obviously be looking at that one, I'm guessing. >> Mhm. It would be really interesting how the 2012 Dodge still in use.
>> Says not available on it. >> It's old. >> And this >> So, that one is a wheelchair vehicle. >> Okay. >> And they're looking to to you can be done to it to so that we can utilize it again.
>> So, are we we thought replacing with like vehicles, bigger vehicles? Um I know it I remember the the document where he was recommending bigger vehicles. So, are we replacing with bigger? >> Yes. They would be They're called
transit vans. Which you would be able to fit more students in them and have a need for last drivers. That's what I'm saying. >> good thing, right? >> The Ford Ford [clears throat] transit vans are ones you're probably familiar with, the original Amazon >> Mhm. >> vehicles.
With those, you'll see it You'll see a lot of them out with districts doing them. They've become more popular with contractors right now, too. Painters, electricians, plumbers, etc. cuz they can stand them in. So, they're they were very hard to get a
couple of years ago. I think they're they're still tough, but there there's an opening now where you can get them. A couple years ago, when I was trying to buy them as yellow buses for the collaborative, we could not buy them in '22 and '23 because Amazon was buying them literally all over the country.
Up. You see a lot of Amazon people now doing their own driving. >> Yeah. >> They're they're individual their own cars now and they're getting paid by >> It's a shock. >> Amazon as contractors. So, they do seem to be a little more available. >> Okay. So, we're talking three.
Is that currently in the capital planning? Is that already >> I think it's in the result >> We're talking about >> No, no, no. This We never included >> we >> We never We never included the money. >> Okay. >> We never included the vehicles in the capital >> Okay. Just checking.
>> Now that we are bringing this from the strategic plan talking about formalizing this in the light of the fact I I'm seeing this almost as a two-pronged approach. We have the funds in the revolving account now, and based on the discussion that we've had to use a revolving accounts for at least two to three Well,
you know, whatever the ultimate will of the committee is based on we do have quotes and then also getting input from the city regarding since they need to approve all vehicle purchases. Um and then again so I'd say year two of our
replacement plan would be embedding the vehicle replacement plan into our capital But every year two to three vans every year. >> And there's nothing saying I don't think when the time comes for the capital plan discussion
depending on how the revolving account looks that we end up saying, "Okay, look we're in our year two of our capital plan. We want three more vehicles." But we'll use our revolving account funds to lease it or what have you, you know what I mean? So there's nothing saying that by including it in the capital plan, the onus is going to be
pushed to the city to buy them or lease them. Obviously, you know, you know, we wouldn't mind if it were. >> Just bear with me because I've always bought my cars. So the lease So would the lease be an annual thing?
Okay. So is there a point where you say to this vehicle we should no longer be leasing this vehicle? >> Lease to buy or lease to buy, you know, we end up buying them so that you know and the thing being like we did with our when we first started this, the leasing
we end up, you know, leasing them for the five years and then home. After the the lease was done, you know, the buy it at a dollar whatever it is they normally do. That would be the same thing I would see we would do here. >> Okay. Or am I just like releasing them and
just trading them in after five years? >> I guess I'd say that would be one of those I'm one of those cross that bridge when we get to it to see as far as the the >> financially which is the best decision. >> Correct. How many miles you put on etc. >> Well, I mean it looks like we've put a lot. We've done a few transmissions.
I mean, I can I mean, just just the vehicles I mean, I know some of them were just oil changes, but you're talking like 535, 53, 111, 91. I think that was an oil change. I think the 10670 481, 106, you know, you're
you're definitely within like two to three thousand just in repairs a month. I mean, I'm sure you see that number. >> Yep. Uh it's >> Do you know what your average repair cost is a month? You could average it out. >> It would >> You can just guess. You can guess. What do you guess? I mean, including oil
changes cuz that would be included in the lease or not? >> No, maybe >> No, maintenance is on >> So, maintenance is us, tires is us. >> I have to have some >> Well, the thing is you don't want to go and say I'm going to buy some cheap tires to put on these vehicles for these kids cuz you want them to be
snow-worthy, water-worthy. You don't want to hydroplane. >> So, monthly it's not It's it's bad now. It wasn't as bad before when they were obviously running much better. Um but currently we're averaging probably $4,000, $5,000.
>> I mean, that was just one one two weeks worth. >> Yeah, well the challenge I mean, I just signed a PO increase for $11,000 for sped transport or transportation because of the CDPW not being able to It would be much less expensive if they were to
able to maintain our vehicles, which they can't. I mean, you try Teresa tries the city DPW first, right? >> Right. So, that's our first go-to all the time. >> It'd be nice if we could just have like a standing with them for oil changes. I think that would definitely be a help
and say, "Hey, you guys can pick up the oil changes." >> That would save >> Not trying to sound weird. Even if they were to pay a guy an hour of OT, that would still be a lot cheaper >> It's not just the money. It's that the city fleet is very old, and so there's a
long line of jobs waiting to be done. >> Yeah, I think it's that and and then the other thing is I believe they're down some workers as well. Human beings. That's what >> I think they just hired some. >> Okay, then maybe they just did, but um
>> I think they're always been told >> We're experiencing on personnel side they are >> Yes. >> And for the record, I found in the city code uh capital projects and improvements are purchases are undertaken at intervals of
not less than 5 years, have a useful life of at least 5 years, and cost over $10,000. So, a capital lease would >> Okay. And they're every 5 years. Yeah. >> I'm just used to you know, capital being frozen every
year and then I made a list for 10 years. Um that's the other piece of this. But we have the funds. >> Which is what I was like saying to you, I was >> Even though it's putting capital, it's our funds. >> So, and when the time comes when we do
the you know, what the city ends up coming back to us when they'll end up approving projects and they'll notify the funding source of whether they're going to borrow for or whether it's coming from stabilization, free cash, or whatever and stuff like that. I would offer up again to school
committee and our superintendent to recommend that, you know, if indeed we have the funds continuing in the revolving account to say that funding source would be transportation revolving account. >> Okay. >> But through a a I want to say it would kill two birds with one stone regarding I would think the approval process A by
school committee for approving it part of the capital plan, and then also it gets over to the city side for their approval. You know, whether it's a Carol Collins review or what have you as to the Again, like the mayor said that all vehicles need
their approval. >> Okay. So, the next step is for us to go to the full committee for a vote to approve the purchase of three lease three
vans. And that which should be >> Those are the ones we're talking about. The 10 passengers. >> Yes. Yep. >> Well, basically we're following the recommendations of the transportation audit. Is that the right word? I never know if I should use audit.
>> Review. >> Review. Thank you. And that it will be we will every 5 years engage in this process. I mean, that really needs to be put in there.
>> Well, I think when you meant meant every 5 years I think I follow your thinking. For For this round, you're thinking every 5 but I'm for that that that one cycle I think we're thinking of doing it every year. You get what I'm You understand
the concept. >> five for only >> You got to say it's annual. >> Yes. It's three each year. >> Let's call it roughly roughly two to three each year, but it would then turn over the original vehicle like you said next year's in five. >> every year.
>> Every year, but it also would be like no longer like like the age no longer than 5 years. >> Right. Like replacing the original one. >> Yeah. No lease longer than 5 years. >> Yes. >> So, how do you get quotes on the leases?
You have to go to three dealers. >> Oh, there's a state contract. >> What is the average cost? >> don't want to >> Like a Pinto. I'm like >> Yeah, no. It's a it's the state combines. You know, I haven't done a solicitation state wide for >> Okay.
>> these vehicles, so. >> Just They did all the leg work. >> Yeah, well. I'm used to those West Coast Loafers. It's a lot of leg work. >> How much roughly are we looking at? >> Well, what we've got on there, we
actually got the actual price if we were to buy it outright. And then next up is the >> So, we only have the outright buy price right now? >> Correct. >> Correct. They're looking to see what works best for us with how many miles we put on it and then anything any outfit
that we would need um to the actual vehicle. >> 200,000. Yes, we have the >> We're talking three, though. >> Yeah, we have the purchase price. >> We're talking like 200,000. >> Like a purchase price now and then the lease uh numbers they're going to get back to
us, so we'll have those by July meeting. >> Perfect. >> Cuz the purchase price um can you give average like rough rough figures? >> 60,000. >> Uh between 65 and 73. It depends on if there's a wheelchair
included in that. We have some new students coming in that are going to need access to >> 200 to 250. >> 150,000. >> 50,000. >> Does any of those wheelchair equipment have >> But not each one, right? >> No. >> No, and you don't want to make Are you
hoping to have like one of on this in this round of three, you're looking to have one have a wheelchair, correct? >> Correct. >> Right. >> You don't want all cuz then the wheelchair you lose seats, too. >> Yeah, correct. >> And you you do need them right, but you don't need them in every single one. >> Which is also the idea behind fixing
that Dodge that has a wheelchair. >> Used to >> Do we know what's wrong with it? >> Um, I think it sat for a while before it came into this position and no one really did anything with it, so they're trying to figure out exactly what it needs so that we can get it up and
running. >> Who has it in the city? >> Yes. >> So, do we have another one that's wheelchair? >> Uh, we have a bus. >> Two buses? >> We have two buses. >> The new bus and then the older bus? >> Correct. >> Is the new bus up and running again cuz I know that was having issues.
>> Um, they're waiting on schematics still. >> So. >> Good thing it's summer. >> Yeah, that's >> for a hot minute. >> I did just look at the DPW still hiring two full-time mechanics. >> They did mention to us that they're
shortage for selling, you know what I mean? >> Probably this. >> Should be advertising at the tech school. Just stand. And they just graduated a bunch of auto techs. We need to bring those kids in when they're juniors. We need to do like
co-ops. >> Yes. I tried to do that for snow plowing. Like do courses at the tech school, you would teach those kids how to plow. And for whatever reason it didn't take. >> I was like It's really um
Jeremy's company tried to work with the tech to do co-ops and it was >> stuff. >> Hit or miss sometimes with kids. All right, we're off topic. Do you have anything else to add to the replacement plan? >> No. >> Just this is
all our hopes and dreams. >> My head. >> You have our attention, so have at it. Drivers, like the 10 passenger vans don't require a CDL, right? So, would you be able I this is an executive session question, but you would be able to like possibly
limit some staff with this? >> I >> Maybe not fill some vacant positions possibly if we're looking at like 10s as opposed to 6s. >> Yeah, I think overall you would you would save money from not having to pay CDL drivers and just get 7D drivers,
which are much easier to come by now. >> That's a good thing. >> Cuz the yellow buses that you see, even the mini ones, require the CDL. >> Would we be looking to surplus one of the yellow buses in the future years? >> Yes. We would be looking at
>> Which which bus are we currently mainly using? Is it the >> It's 1122. It's a 2015 Thomas. >> Okay, that's one I always see around. >> Yep. And then the Blue Bird is currently
having issues. I think it's more the regular maintenance was not >> That would be really great to get that one up. You know, we do a lot of co-op stuff with like Just Roots. It'd be really nice if we had like a nice around town
vehicle that we were able to do more co-op stuff with and that like that 27 with like your 18 would totally get kids to and from. Like to even to Just Roots, I mean we're talking it was like 400, I think it was around 400 just for
the bus. Do you have to get the kids to the farm or to the YMCA? Yeah. You know, to get the swimming back. >> Yeah, and we we paid a bill last fall. I was surprised at for the bus trip after the parade, the
fair parade, is that the right way to call it that? Fair parade. A one-way trip from >> 400 >> up there to the high school to bring the band back. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> That's insane. >> Which we >> It is, but
>> that's what it is, right? So, it it is insane, but that's what it is. We all saw We all saw that and we're obviously surprised, right? So, we're hoping they don't have to repeat that again. >> Well, yeah. I mean, that would It'd be great if you had the
1120 up and running, you know, to be able to use that and the two >> do two trips, like two quick ones, you know? >> Or if you're using two vans, one for instruments, one for humans. You know, cuz those vans the seats all uh Now, are we looking that we would have to go I'm changing the topic here, but
hybrid with the city policy? I know we've discussed some of that in the past. >> yes, the I mean, Kiro came back with some information on that, but the weight of the vehicles and the miles that we're talking about for these transit vans puts it out of the uh the
the energy requirements for the vehicles. >> Batteries alone. They're >> And also, because of where do we end up storing, you know, charging >> we charge them? How do we store them? Like, the clearance levels, especially going down 91, some of those >> Yeah, if the
Most people wait on a transit is bigger than a you and I might call a personal minivan in that sense, so that pushes us out of the requirement. >> And then you have to have a mechanic who can fix a hybrid which is a whole 'nother ball of wax.
I mean, even people who bought personal hybrid cars are like, what? Yeah. So, I think that's a good thing to stay away from. I mean, we're just starting to get oil changes. Then you throw a hybrid in there, and again, you're looking at like what? A 106 number, I think it's the oil
changes. >> Yeah. >> And that those prices are looking to go up for >> Yeah. >> It's pretty standard everywhere. >> Yeah. >> Um so the one of the vans that you're hoping to replace that would have the wheelchair
accessibility, would that also be a 10 or we're talking that would likely be a seven? >> That would be a seven. >> Yeah, I just didn't know if the 10s even had >> They do. >> They do, but they're much more expensive and it just
at that point you're looking at seven seats available, maybe. >> Okay. >> With a wheelchair. >> How many are we looking at with the seven passenger? >> Uh we're >> With the wheelchair? >> So they So there's three.
Yes, there's three. There's There's five all together. So if we put that one side up, there is space for one extra, so you're looking at four seats roughly, which is why we're trying to stay We just have one and we utilize that.
This This year we're only looking at having two students. And if we can get the Dodge up and running, it should be fine. >> Good to me. >> I have that timeline question. When do you need the school committee to
vote and approve and give the thumbs up on the transportation replacement? >> July. >> Last month and last month. >> Okay, in that case, um I would move
committee request the full committee to approve of the transportation replacement of the three vehicles as recommended by the transportation review. >> Second. >> Um can we have some >> discussion. I kind of wrote down some
notes based on what we were talking about. What I had was vote to approve three van three 10 passenger vans to follow the guidance of the review to replace three every >> year.
>> every year no lease longer than five years. I had some like very I don't know if we want to be that specific in wording or take what you said. >> From the >> Go ahead you first. >> I was I was thinking but I don't want
you you stop me at just one year. >> So just to start this one year? >> Because >> Because then you'll come in the fall for capital. >> Okay. Your name? Is that what I heard? >> Yeah but you Yeah that way you hit the next one in the fall. And I think you would mention the three. What we're
hearing from Teresa is maybe [clears throat] the motion if you wanted to prep it is two 10 passenger and one with wheelchair smaller. >> Yes. >> So you don't How would we call it? >> So you don't want to lock yourself into that. >> That was my thing. It says a compact van
is a >> Or maybe you just make the motion three vehicles. >> Okay. So >> But I think we want to be specific that one needs to be a wheelchair accessible. >> So it could be three vehicles comma one being wheelchair accessible.
>> Handicap accessible. >> Yes. >> Do we want to put in there we specifically want two to be 10s? >> I don't I don't think you need to be that specific >> Okay. >> in the motion. >> I'm just asking. >> If that's where you're that's where we're going, right? We're not looking
for the Dodge Caravan or anything. >> No. >> No. We're looking for the Transit this year. >> Okay. So I just want to >> And that's where we get the bids. >> I want to clarify the numbers. Three to be purchased in July hopefully. Okay. And then
see how that leasing process goes. For a year we're really doing that. And then the next capital round, there would be another three. And the this will >> And that'll be in the winter time we will start doing that again. >> And then we'd have like So, we would do it like
How many vehicles are there? >> There's >> 15? Vans? >> There's 14. >> Well, 15 then. >> So, it'd be like three, three, three, and then one year it'd be a two-year, and then you'd start your >> desperate area.
>> Or like I said, my question is like if we're looking at replacing these with 10s, and these are all fives, so >> In year four and five, you I know what you're thinking. >> Yeah. >> You would reevaluate. >> You're you're going to reevaluate cuz you're not going to need >> down to the then it's flipping twos.
>> You might Yeah. Or yeah, you might be flipping twos every >> Right. So, it could be cuz you two factors, right? As you were thinking, I believe, that you get more more per vehicle. >> I mean, I get to go to different locations. Like I totally understand that. >> that that's a great thought. And then
the other one being enrollment could be going down. But I think three because we're I don't want to say so far behind, but we're kind of far behind. Three is definitely now. >> Yeah. >> I mean, thinking like a couple Like I'm even thinking like, okay, we do 10s, and I mean, I'm not the transportation
director, nor am I the business person, but like knowing that we do have some a couple kids that go to Holyoke, where we might need a five instead of a 10. Where around town we could use a 10. >> Right. >> Or they go to Fitchburg or >> it. She'll still run the smaller ones
down to Springfield or out east. >> Yeah. So, we might not be So, this year we're definitely replacing 10s, but like next year we could be talking about fives. Sorry, Anne. Sorry, Anne. >> And the thing about this way of including capital plans revised yearly, so if by chance we have
you know, if we need to change in order if we end up as you're saying come down and look and see that we could get another X number of years out of one or two of them then we adjust the capital plan accordingly. >> Are we ready to make a motion? >> Well, we have the motion on the table that we were discussing.
>> we're ready to vote. >> I am. >> Is it same motion? Or okay, we didn't change it. >> Want to verify. >> Yeah. >> I can scroll up in the transcript to find the motion again if we want to make
sure we know what we're voting on. >> Yeah, you want to just reread it back? I didn't write it down. >> Yep, I am looking. >> I'll give you a couple of minutes and we'll put it on for July. >> Do we don't need to be specific like
which plate numbers? Okay, so the motion is that the that um the subcommittee [clears throat] request the full committee approve of the transportation replacement of the three vehicles as recommended by the transportation review. >> Second.
>> You seconded. Okay. Member Childs. >> Yes. >> Member Goodwyn. Yes. Member Webb. Yes. Passes unanimously. Are we good with that topic I'm guessing? >> I think that I think that was the only topic.
>> Did you have Now we have something else. Did you have anything else you wanted to talk to us about? >> I have a transportation question. >> Go for it. >> It came out of the minutes which I just want to put out there.
So, it was a Comstock's bill for $6,109 and it says charter school transportation. So, are we paying for us for the charter school? >> Yes. >> I want that publicly said. We are paying
$6,000 for a charter school. And here we are arguing about pennies for us. Okay. >> We we have to do that. >> We have to by law. >> Because it's within our city limits. So if the charter school is just outside of the city
in another city, you would not bus your students. Or Greenfield students outside of the city to that school. >> What is their walking distance? I don't think they have those same regulations cuz that's our policy.
>> Or or do they follow our policy? >> They don't have to follow any >> what I'm trying to say like do they follow our busing policy? >> No. They don't have to follow anything. They don't even have to have licensed teachers. >> Okay. Off topic. Off topic. >> [clears throat]
>> Okay. And that just hit me really hard when I saw it. So So >> Oh, I mean I have another transportation question if you want to talk about it in the warrants. >> Well do they get to choose
who buses their kids or can we say we're going to do it the cheaper way? >> We got part of the bid. It's part of the >> Okay. They can't like >> I mean >> in the broken down Dodge? >> No. There's nothing in there. There's
nothing You're all being You're all being recorded. >> My tax money. >> There's nothing in the contract that that detours us from determining if there is a cheaper way to do it. The challenge I think comes do we have the capacity to take on
Are you suggesting that our transportation department take on the charter business? >> You know what I'm Do you want to know what I'm suggesting which no one's going to like this. I mean I have a thought. >> I think >> What time What time do they Does the charter school start? Do we know that answer? >> 8:00 8:05. Could they pick up the same buses
as our kids? And then they would just get looped after our kids get dropped off over there. >> We used to do that and it didn't work well. >> Do you know why it didn't work well? >> It had to do with their start time and our start time. So the the charter
school kids used to get on buses that would stop here at the middle school. I lived this and so the middle school kids would get off but the charter school kids would stay on if they remembered to stay on and that was
a whole another problem. And then they would be late or they would be early and so they would tell us that you know, we just that >> We're learning like for a factor like how that would affect our
cost like how much more >> The challenge done I guess without doing the actual routing it is that we need to make sure that we have the capacity and this is what our current because most of our contract does have is to every student entitled to ride a bus has a seat.
So adding them because they weren't necessarily included could potentially result in the need for an additional bus or is there a potential way to then reroute the existing routes to end up adding them on to a
you know, whole new routing that would add them >> If you school choice out, you have to transport your kid. But if you go to a charter school, we have to transport you. >> Only within >> Only preschool students. >> So if that >> Only within your >> If that charter school happened to be let's say it was over the border
in line like 50 ft over the border, we would not transport those students there. >> All right. >> What you also see happening for school choice is that Frontier picks up students from Greenfield just over the
border down here. >> The bus from South Hadley to Shelburne, they all pick them up right on the line. >> Right in the big white park. >> We know the games they play. Yeah. I sat there and watched. >> All right. I have I do have a I do have
a question regarding transportation. And I guess this kind of was answered by Mass again. Um I noticed in the warrants from 6:15 that the field trip to Just Roots in Amherst
was or the field trip to Just Roots was the same price as the students at Newton going to the Amherst Museum. So like the bill we received for Just Roots was the same price
for Four Corners to go to Just Roots as it was for Newton to go There's more. Newton to go to the Amherst Museum field trip. And I also noticed that the
Newton was charged $30 less, I believe, than Four Corners to go to the Amherst Museum. I just didn't know I just didn't know. Like it's the it's the same price to go to Just Roots via Cosmacus. Is that Is
that How How do they bill us? How do they charge us? For field trips or anything that's not like >> By the mile. >> I would assume by the hour. >> Yeah. >> It's probably time and distance, I would assume, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. It's about their whatever the driver gets paid and then how far it is and
any time running time that they >> So I don't know if the Just Roots was a one-time field trip or a multiple field trip. >> We'd have to look at the paperwork and see how long they were there. And who like and as Teresa mentioned, who drove. So the two drives to Amherst could have had a different driver.
>> Okay. >> And one makes more per hour. Or if some one of the schools stayed I'm making this up. I do not know cuz I'd have to look at it, right? One stayed a half hour longer. >> I learned this in the basketball game. Mhm. If you stay for a long time >> I just I just was really surprised to
find out that the Just Roots field trip literally was the same exact price as the Amherst field trip. >> Right down to the penny, huh? >> Yep. >> That's a little weird. >> Yep. That's what I said, too. And I I wondered if it was if they went
multiple times over, you know, like I mean, let's be real. Just Just Roots from Four Corners is less than 2 miles. >> Twice as long. >> Well, they There's not sidewalks. You can't walk. I mean, it's about 2 >> Do you happen to have a date on that or not?
>> It's from The warrant's from 6:15. Do I have the exact like >> We'll We'll pull I'll pull the paperwork and get back to you on that. >> Yeah, to the penny, that sounds like somebody just like >> Just like throwing it out there. >> That's why we look at it. >> Because I was like, this just seems
weird. It was like an in-town >> I think we probably should hold the discussion of it until our warrants meeting. >> Sounds great. I just figured Well, Yeah, well, it's good to Teresa was here, it would be a good question to ask.
All right. Are we moving on to the next thing, Anne? >> Sure. Let's move on to bids and procurement process education stuff. >> As I say, Teresa, if you want to leave, you're probably free. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, she can leave.
I don't want to hold you longer than 15. Thank you for this information today. >> So, I guess I can talk about the process as to how First, let me start with the legal thresholds. Um anything between zero and $10,000 for the Inspector General, you use what's
called sound business practices. That could be as simple as looking in a catalog for prices. Amazon, what have you, and then that In 2022, they raised the threshold for school
districts only that anything between 10,000 and $100,000, you only need to solicit three quotes. It doesn't mean you need to get, you only need to solicit. So, you end up putting together a scope
of services for what you're looking for. It could be a service contract per se. It could be for desks. It could be for HVAC work. It could be for landscaping, as we're clearly have been talking about. Um but >> What year did you say that was, Andy? In
2022? >> 2022. >> Thank you. >> Um So, with that and then anything over $100,000, you need to go out for a formal either invitation for bid or a request for proposals, which adds a
different layer to things. >> And that's when things get posted, correct? >> Correct. Um >> And that one we would be required to have a certain amount of bids? >> Nope. You would just use solicit, and if they if
one vendor replies, then you you can go with the one vendor or if, you know, but you you do not need to I'm going to say the actively seeking of a bid is by actually posting it and or advertising it in the local papers or various publications that
>> So, we're talking 10 to 100,000, I can just say, "Hey, bestie over here, you want to bid on this?" And I don't have to ask anyone else. >> Yeah, no, you have to solicit three. >> Yeah, solicit three. You have to ask three. >> But I can ask the three people sitting in this room. >> Yeah, and if two of us don't get back to
you. >> Yeah, but I get to choose who I ask. It doesn't just go out to the general public. >> That'd be fair, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Now, >> but if it's over 100K, I'm going to have to ask >> One time and if I can just pull four at least what I do when I do quote solicitations
is I will go to, which is what was done for the HVAC contract, is the DC I should say the state has already done a bid for HVAC services where they have gone through and already vetted the vendors. And so, then I would and which
is what I told Mr. Boudreau and what he did was pick three vendors off of the list, request your quote solicitation because it was going to be under 100 grand to provide the HVAC services. So, you know,
I wouldn't, you know, I don't necessarily just say post it out there on the district's website and we're doing our due diligence. I would, you know, whatever the department is, I always go to COMMBUYS or to MHEC first. MHEC is another regional organization that does procurement
to have vendors because they've already done the leg work, made sure that they are allowed to do business in Massachusetts, etc., etc. And so, then you would solicit those quotes from them. And you can still keep it posted on your the website or whatever or you
know, some places even post it up on a bulletin board in their their office. So, you know, just because of the threshold for quote solicitation is less restrictive, doesn't mean that the due diligence is done or not done I should say to make sure that what we're getting
is what it is that we want. >> I respect the state list but I guess also a part of me years ago we worked really hard to keep our taxpayers money local. We even did all our purchasing for paper and
everything from Bakers. I bought books from World Eye. I mean we were Dr. Hollingsworth felt very strongly that we should keep our money local if we were purchasing things. And so you know and I think the mayor
brought up you know at least when we see the landscaping bill we know it's a local person. Um So I I guess if we're looking I guess I would request that we always look at somebody who's kind of local. Maybe we don't always have local people I get
that and maybe they're more expensive. >> You cannot be that restricted to state that. >> Okay. >> You have to make it so that it is competitive. >> Okay. >> And so the combined definition of competitive is that you know you have the capacity to to do the work that is being solicited.
>> Right. >> Then you know now you can do things you know like some people have done regarding like on HVAC work which is you know if there's what is the emergency call and the time turn around time that somebody needs to be there. And so on and so that's the onus on the
vendor to make sure that if you are not a local vendor that if something goes down >> And you're out in Boston and you're >> Mhm. But you can't you cannot explicitly state that they have to be a >> Right. >> You know have a zip code of assuming
what happens and so >> But you >> But what we end up doing is again like I was saying is that we will advertise it publicly and I would say local vendors are pretty keen on knowing that, you know, they'll they they've got their eyes and ears open to
any contract that's out there, and so. So, then I guess so so those are like the legal thresholds per Massachusetts 30B. Now, when it time comes for you know, I don't know if we're going to here to talk also about capital, but capital falls under a whole different regulation. It's called you know, either
section 7 of chapter 149J, 30-39N, depending on the project. Um those are things or what ends up happening are similar to what we had discussion regarding the energy recovery units, which is what and even when we did the uh
the doors and cameras, uh we do what's called an RFQ, which is a request for qualifications. And what that is, that's just a solicitation of a firm, whether it be an engineering firm, architect firm, to say, "We are looking to explore a project of installing energy recovery
units on the middle school for replacement. Do you have the capacity to draw specifications to then conduct the bid itself, etc., and you know, filed sub-bids cuz those are some things that are required?" So, that is the, you know, when it comes to
major projects, capital in nature, uh building-wide and something in the the normal route is you don't want to I'm not an architect, I'm not an engineer. You don't want me writing specifications to replace energy recovery units on the schools, but I can write the specifications to get an architect or an
engineer firm to then do that, and that's what is done under those other other laws. Um so, internally, what do we end up doing? We use purchase orders, and you know, there is in our financial procedures
manual, there there are, you know, the documentation regarding the thresholds for quote solicitation. Honestly, the really the only departments that that comes an issue for are maintenance and technology. Sped is exemp- exempt from
that. Transportation is as well. Um and they know to use Combines, MHEC, or any other procurement organizations that are out there. Uh because the Inspector General's office, all they want to make sure is
and thank you very much the big dig, is that there is a competitive process and a review process of the qualifications of vendors for whatever the work is done. I think back to I want to say almost almost 10 years ago when for whatever reason when the state
did their bidding for technology and and for whatever reason Apple was no longer listed as a approved vendor in the state of Massachusetts. That sent a whole, you know, obviously in education Apple is a key key user.
Um or or I should say we use them a lot in various ways. Now, well, some you know, are going to Google what have you. But regardless, at that time though because it created such a panic, they did say if there was another competitive bid process done elsewhere where Apple was
listed, you could then use that. So, every Pennsylvania the state of what ended up happening is the state of Pennsylvania did a bid where Apple was listed. So, everybody just used the Pennsylvania contract. So, what ends up happening is, you know, when any I use maintenance because that is kind of the
ones that it ends up happening a lot. Mike Boudreau, now the new maintenance director, would come to me saying, "I need this." And then it's like, "Okay, let's look at Combines. Is there a a contract there?" Now, we are going to we have sent the information off to legal counsel regarding doing the compliance review
regarding the HVAC maintenance service contract agreement. But I can tell you what we did bec- I know the individual from the public has said that we didn't follow combi's, the bid per combi's. We didn't. I will not but the reason why
we didn't was because we use as I said stated earlier the combi's contracts as the vendors for Mike to solicit from. And so we didn't need to necessarily because we just choose those vendors to request what we're looking for. We
didn't need to get two in writing. We did get two in writing but we didn't need to. You know so it's a thing of because of the flexibility provided to us we just use a combi's as a resource. >> Okay. So if there were two in writing
how come that didn't show up in the record request? >> I think it did ultimately show up in the record request. I don't want to say >> was I think all that I don't like but I'm pretty sure third party but
all he saw was the combi. >> Yeah, he's he's he's reading the language of the combi's contract that says you need to get two. >> But that's all he saw. He didn't see other quotes. I mean that was why the question was where do quotes go to? >> Mhm.
>> Um you know whether they go to the city hall or they they live here. I think that's what people are asking. Where is the evidence of this? >> I'll double check on that. >> I mean that's really um
in my generation of administrators when we did grants and stuff you would walk into a superintendent's office you'd see all these black binders because you knew somebody was going to come and say what did you spend our money on and that binder had copies of everything that we
did to spend money. So I guess that's the question is like as a taxpayer I mean we're the third highest taxed in the great state of Massachusetts and it's feeling like everybody's just kind of
not transparent. We're just kind of spending money, and people want to know where their money's going. I mean, that's really the um or they're moving. And that's also a consideration. So, to be able to put your hands on that is
really, I think, and I know I'm trained as a grant writer that, you know, anything I spent that money on is in that binder under that number, it's signed, there's multiple copies. If I had to get quotes, they're there, or who
I called, it's all there. I hand it to somebody, this is how we spent this money. Um and I think it that's sort of what we're looking for for the schools as well. Like, if you're spending, you know,
$200,000 in whatever line item you have, is there a way to And Andy, you're the only one I know who, you know, you've been in Greenfield. People are not just sitting by anymore.
There are people saying, "Transparency." So, how do we make it so that somebody could come in here, anybody off the street, and say, "I want to know like why this money is all this for transportation?"
Somebody who's in a superintendent's chair, or a secretary, could put a binder, or whether put a Chromebook, somebody something in front of somebody and say, "Here's where your money's going." That is just as simple as this is.
I I think the questions are being asked because the schools are half of our budget. You know, when I heard 11 million for health care, and I'm like, "Cha-ching, cha-ching." Um I think
Greenfield has spent a lot of money building things and we're in a lot of debt, but there's also the rest of the money. So, we can't fight the you built a fire station, you built a library. That's we can't. But, we can get down to the
the nitty-gritty, um which is where is our money going to? And it's a core group of people who are working very hard for their money, who are paying high taxes on their homes.
Um and so, they're all saying, you know, show us. Tell us. >> Show us the money. >> Um but, I I think it's always you get >> Oh, I agree with you. >> Right? I mean, you >> And I was just double-checking because I didn't know in when this all started,
you know, Mike Pudlow did say to me and I'm looking through my emails now for him that uh he got two quotes and then one didn't respond. >> So, it's legit. >> But, you know, so I'm looking forward >> Oh, good there. >> I'll follow up with that, but
either way, I don't want to say when I say if indeed he only got one quote and not only two responses, then because of the flexibility provided to us, that would have been legitimate. Now, I I'll say what has come to light here is to is
and then I'll share this and I was talking with Roland about it beforehand uh week or so ago, um uh we we are now we've given everybody like uh we have a master like quote log sheet that we you know, I've used in other
places where it will then be able to dick document, you know, I reached out to Roland Joyal. >> It's a lot better paper trail. >> And then quoted at quoted this price and then you know, so on and so forth and so forth. So, so we've got that. Um
I'm going to say that in the light of some of the things now the snows thing I'm just still I'll be honest with you baffled on it. Took it out of I don't even know why the city did in the first place. But, that's neither here nor there. Um although I I do know >> We we tracked that down. >> Although one nice thing I'll say I do have I have a theory as to why it is that
that's the case. >> Well, I do, too. So. >> Uh I'm even going to go a little more I'm going to go a little a little more technical on you, I think. But, >> Okay. >> Um but, I think we're in agreement as to why it is. But, um so, you know, I'll find out we're going to have So, the process is, you know,
whenever they're going to come you know, they know the threshold that is requiring for the quote solicitation. And they need help drying up the quote solicitation, they will come to me and I will help you do that. If indeed this gets a little technical in nature, obviously like Mike was able to put together what he was looking for for HVAC maintenance, so he
did that. Solicited quotes. I can tell you that we did get three quote responses for the next round of uh quote solicitation that I've shared uh with uh the new facility director. And Mike cuz he was helping out with stuff and so we, you know, so that
process we'll say has been Not that it wasn't followed before, but it is now followed and we have the documentation and we do actually have the three quotes. Um >> Making it more transparent. >> Yeah, so, you know, and the same thing like we even had in technology Ian came
with something regarding uh firewall protection and and things like antivirus. Um you had a vendor that provided quote. I said, "Here's the Combuy's contractor are they listed on here?" They were and I said, "But again, if you go into use the Combuy's because this one was over
the amount and the Combuy's contract did require to get some another one in writing." He got another one in writing to show that indeed this was the cheapest. So, the those that are in the need-to-know regarding how to use the state solicited
contracts or MHEC uh to use that and then if we need to write up specifications ourselves, I do that. I'll say one of the things that has come out regarding this research and I was having asked Becky
one of my theories regarding why it is that the city did this knows is that in the Mass General Law chapter 30B, if the municipality has a designated procurement officer, they are the designated procurement officer unless
they delegate that authority to another department. And I don't believe that has ever been the case. Correct. So, I'm >> at the records I can't find. >> I'm envisioning that because she was a city's procurement officer
that she did it. You know, and an argument could be made quite honestly technically could we even be doing our HVAC should I be doing the HVAC consultation? You know?
>> I think that's a great conversation that should be happening. Um >> Or should they be designating >> Correct. >> somebody who is also certified. >> There should be like a formal >> There's a form. There's an actual >> They'd have to be right.
>> You could I would like it honestly because um >> You don't want other people picking. >> We know what it is that we need. >> You need. >> Well, yeah, and you have vendors that you've people have worked with before that you're like, well, this vendor we did work with and it didn't go well.
You know, and things didn't 2 + 2 didn't equal 4 with this person and others who are completely easy to work with. Yep. Or you don't know. I mean, you could have an issue with like a a parent working for this company and being
non-custodial and somehow magically in the building, too. And you No, you know, you might have knowledge of that. >> It was as simple as somebody buying black and white monitors for Apple computers that a teacher is supposed to use and
the program say what part of the Apple is red. It's as simple as that. I lived that. Thousands of dollars were spent. Um And you're going, well, maybe they should have talked to the people who are going to use it.
>> All right, Andy, was that all you had for us on that topic? >> know as far as like when you're talking in education, could you of it >> I was just asking if you could tell them we I know you mentioned this during the big meeting as well, too, but where the documents live. Who What what we
hold and what they hold, they being the city. >> I don't know what the city holds. >> Well, what we have though >> What we have is we do have what it is There is a contract file on the Google Drive that we scan scanned everything in that we have as far as our contracts and
the bids and what have you and stuff. >> So, how would a taxpayer be able to access that? >> There's a FOIA request. >> So, everything got scanned into a Google Drive now is what you're saying? >> They've always been, I guess, yes. >> Okay. Now, this is going to sound strange, but
when they do Do we see any of the bids? Does the school committee see them? >> You would I mean >> Like is there a way that school committee committee could see them like moving forward or at least budget finance? >> I I guess I would say in
the 20 years that we've been around they only the only bid that they have I've seen or ever have seen would be transportation. Because they then, you know, everything it would fall under administrative perview.
You ultimately end up awarding the contract. You know, and like you did for Kismeskis, you know, and again because Kismeskis was a joint bid with Franklin County Schools, it was approved to do the joint bid and by the school committee and then also city
council because we are looking to go for 5 years and any contract over 3 years requires city council approval. So, and then the uh ultimate acceptance of the bid came back to the school committee for approval.
But as far as like I mean, there's nothing saying that you can, you know, but I guess I'd say what in the bid specifications for HVAC maintenance would you want to see? >> I I don't know. I'm just asking the question for, you know, we're we're So,
you're talking about like, how do we make things more, you know, transparent for our public. So, you know, I guess that's where the where my thought process came up like, well, is there
um are we checking boxes that we did get three bids with, you know, budget and finance or is it just rolling to say, "Oh yeah, now I see these three bids. We're good to go." And then school committee's trusting that he
knows the process went the way it did or now in our case, Superintendent Cruiser, like I'm just trying to cross t's and dot i's for people that And I also don't think we should be micromanaging at the same time. So, it's
like this really hard balance of like, you know, is it as simple as an email with the information going and saying, "Hey, we got these three bids. Here's, you know, we selected this vendor. Here's the three bids we blah blah blah. Here's the and it just
I mean, I don't think that email's going to come every week we're having a conversation like >> Mhm. I'm just looking at your policy DJ and DJ and DJA about purchasing and it does say that it's centralized in the superintendent's office. So, I guess
then it's just a matter of >> It doesn't say anything about notifying. >> So. One I guess one of the things >> I mean, we'd have to approve it anyways. >> So. >> Kind of. >> No. >> No, it would go No, that's not our
purview. >> Yeah. >> So, they would get So, as a principal I wanted a climbing wall. I was responsible for getting the three quotes. The three quotes were stapled to my purchase order. I had the money cuz I
had school choice funds I saved for a climbing wall. >> Mhm. >> And I wanted my climbing wall. And one quote was from England. That's how desperate I was cuz they were popular. >> Mhm. >> So, that got sent to my boss and if that boss said
she's done her due diligence, she's done her three >> Well, that would that would that would fall under the zero to 10 sentence and practices. >> No, it was it was >> Yeah. >> Just saying it was a very at the time it would not have met that cuz we're
talking about 2020 >> Pre-2022. >> So, um yeah. But, those quotes did exist on paper or there was documentation attached to the purchase order. So, I guess
>> mentioned that's what he has a form on to do that. So, should somebody say, "Hey, where is it?" you pull out the folder. >> Or maybe it's even on the purchase order, you know? These are the three people we called or something like that. I mean
it's just being accountable for people. >> This is where technology isn't always your friend. To have to go through a full like fill out the request and everything. That's just to find out like
>> I have to think about this. >> Okay. >> I'm just trying to figure out where we're at. >> I think we're Is there anything else on the agenda? >> Nope. >> I'm moving >> And you hadn't anything to add or that was it? >> And do you have any questions left?
>> Well, I think it's more of if we have any action on this that we want to bring to the full committee, if we have any suggestions we want to make, or are we content just to have
just to say this was our discussion and now we are more educated? >> I mean, I think uh I'm going to give my feelings. Um I feel like Andy's tried to come up with a I I don't think the plan we had in play was really good, and I think the
superintendent's office and the business manager are trying to work together to come up with a better process to be more visible at the moment, and it might be worth giving it a trial run and then reevaluation. Just see how the process is going.
>> We We also do have the variable of We did vote to ask to have the district lawyer take a look and make any recommendations. >> don't think right now any We have a >> We have >> We have a motion for anything. >> Good.
I've talked I've spoken with them, and we've said that we're going to >> plan. >> Oh, so when will we hear from Council about how they're looking at things? >> I don't know. We sent it to him last week. >> Okay. Wonderful. Thank you.
>> And I spoke with them. So it's in their hands. >> Okay. In that case, we ready to adjourn? >> Um uh do we have a date for our warrant meeting? >> We do not yet.
Do you want to try to set it right now? >> Uh do we want to adjourn and set it or should we I don't know if it matters. I don't understand things sometimes. >> You can adjourn. >> Okay. >> I move we adjourn. >> Second. >> Want to call the roll for the vote? >> Sure.
Number Childs? >> Yes. >> Number Goodwin? >> Yes. >> Number Webb? Yes. >> Okay, we are adjourned. So we can stop recording at our meeting. >> I'm going to save the transcript so that I've got something for my notes.