Okay. Well, everybody everybody that's here to call lady corner crunches. >> Uh and uh let's roll call. Who's here? Starting with Terry.
>> Sarah Syers here. >> Sarah Bold here. >> Matt Abby here. >> Tim Blank here. >> Aaron Pleasant here. Marggo Jones here. Okay. And anybody joining us by Zoom? >> Nope. It's just us.
>> Just us. Okay. For the moment. >> For the moment. >> Keep it up. Yeah. >> All right. So, um uh can't really do minutes because I don't. >> So, we'll put that on next month's agenda
and uh look forward to it. Uh, okay. Discussion items. Old business. Very exciting. Darren at 5JS on the planted coach. Well, I don't think Okay, the long and short of it is that I got a
phone call about two weeks ago from uh Michael Nelson and he was like, "You'll never guess what I can apply for. It is a grant that could that could match all of our phones. I'm going to apply for it together." And it was a federal earmarked grant that he has decided not to apply for. >> Oh.
>> Because he doesn't think that we'll qualify because we're literally the project. He was going to apply for $250,000. He thinks that we're too small. >> Small >> because the election, right, Susan? >> The idea is that the more money that
they get from those ears for their constituents, the better that the election will be for >> Go ahead. >> The applicable parties. It's coming away from >> Oh, that's good. I do not. >> I do. However, that said, I did apply
today for $5,000 for the first license 2026 grant. Um the deadline was tomorrow, so I didn't want to wait, >> right? >> But um I put in an application um and this is my application. If anybody wants to look at it, I'll put it online, too.
But I included they wanted pictures of the stage coach and you know how much it was going to how much we want, how much the project was. By the way, we did actually get a quote um from the South Dakota folks. Um it's going to cost $157,000 including transport both ways
and they want the work to be done. Uh they won't they won't start it until we have everything up front. And so after that, it'll take about a year to get it back. And then apparently when I when I spoke to the guy on the phone, they want to do it basically like an archaeological study. They're going to take it all the
part. They're going to photograph everything. They're gonna detail like literally pull it apart, photograph everything, put it back together, like some kind of mission from any of those. So, I think that's gonna be a good task. So, I think that sounds be really good. Um,
>> it's like it sounds like we really want to go in this by saying blame for wanting up front when you're dealing with historic terms. >> They want to stay in business. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's why I said I was like, you know, do you take a deposit? you take, you know, what happens if we have half
the money and you start to work and then we don't have the half the money. It's like, no, we're taking it all up front. Like, that's that's valid. >> So, I've um I've been looking for grants and a lot of them closed at the beginning of this month, which is a shame. But this one have to be open. It's maximum of $5,000. So, I asked for
$5,000. >> Um and we actually I've got the square account all set up, too. So, hopefully that I don't know. They're not going to give this to Square account. But um as far as the next agenda, you know, we can start fundraising for that. And I actually am giving a stage coach talk at
the Western Mass History Fest on the 11th. I'm going to be like, "Hey guys, donate to our cause." >> And uh so hopefully we'll start getting some donations that way. Um but yeah, so theund the $250,000 grant that would been awesome. I don't think he's going
to apply for them. So, so yeah. So, what explain that a little bit better later that was a fair grounds and that that money was intended to be for the building and >> and for the restoration covered everything, >> right? >> But he he decided that it wasn't likely that we would get that,
>> right? It was we were too small and it's highly competitive, right? >> Because it's federal mark. >> Okay. So, >> so the woman who works for the green theater, who's the >> grand
Athena? Is she a positive source for any any for us to go since she keeps her finger on the ground? >> I already asked. She's keeping her ear to the ground, but uh >> that's all we can ask. >> So that's all we can ask. Yeah. So I work for and uh she actually helped me
with this as well. So >> yeah, that that's that's the thing is that there are some people that are just tuned in to that stuff whether it's historical mass historical >> people they have hair here to in some
ways. Yeah. I mean this this is a peculiar kind of a brain. It's it's so specific. >> It's hard because a lot of grants are are particular to historical preservation of sites, facilities, and buildings, but not necessarily artifacts.
>> Artifacts. >> And um so I had thought about maybe going um contacting each of the local banks, but again, because we're a municipality, we're technically part of the municipal side of things, it's a little harder. We could have a nonprofit apply for grants on behalf of like the
historical society. Yeah. >> But then you have more moving targets, more people you have to connect with and it just becomes more out. >> Actually, we're allowed >> to are we? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I read that but enabling legislation. >> Well, and I always say I'm going to
apply for this one, but because a bank, you know, because it's a bank or a private company, I was I wasn't really sure. It was >> You also need to know where we fall down for profit. >> I mean, strictly speaking, to the ter fall down. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, >> right. >> What what is the town's does the town
have an official position on this whole effort? >> I have >> all we all we had to go on was it originally was the mayor's office, right? >> Jeremy spoil. >> Um but yeah, and so the check obviously like this like you said would be made
out to the city. The city has to have some kind of >> Do you know what the city's official position on this effort is? >> I don't know that we have uh an official opinion. I mean, by law, the historical commission is enabled. The city's opinion on this.
>> That's not No, no, you're that's that's not the tree I'm barking on. I'm barking at the tree. What's the city's position on this effort? Do they have an official position? Not whether it's legal for us to do they have a position. Are they in favor of us going out and getting 150
plus thousand dollars? >> I don't think >> Do they care or do they throw the weight of the city behind the effort? >> Eric said she would be available to answer any questions during our meeting. Oh, no questions. Look at the little
>> Do we want to ask her? >> I'm just I'm just in favor of it. being in favor of it and being officially behind the effort is too good of a thing. You know what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> And I feel better if they were pushing
not if they were standing in the private. >> Well, it's also budget season. I know that they know they don't have any money. So, >> well, listen. Yeah, that's nice. But I also like to, you know, Yes. Yes. They in there will help. What do you mean for do we'll let
we'll let you use our brand writer, you know. >> Yep. But I know that um I know that they issue us letters of support. >> They would issue us letters of support if they do have they would fine. >> Sure. Yeah. >> So I can't foresee that they would have a problem with it particularly because
we're legally allowed to and also because then the city doesn't have to do any fundraising on their own. >> So So we know they're not against it. >> Question is still are they? >> Do you want do you want to ask them? >> That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
>> I want I want a cheerleading section even if they don't have any money. >> Yeah. Need for an effort like this is a cheerleading section in addition to this group. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> You know, so like Okay, you guys go ahead and let us know how it turns out.
Yeah. Yes. >> So, you want a letter from the mayor that says >> it would be wonderful and great for the city or something like that >> to And I was going to say grant writing
when we want >> for future grants. Yeah. >> And and >> can you let us use your grant? >> Yeah. >> I mean, are you officially But is it is it is she officially? Yeah, that's the kind of
>> How did it go when you applied for the planning and the the planning grant? Was that Did that just like Did we have to ask permission to use Athena? >> Yeah, we needed $20,000. Yeah. >> So, we had to ask for permission to use Athena. We didn't just ask, "Hey, Athena, could you?"
>> No, the mayor was like, >> she got >> She was forwarded to us basically. >> Yeah. >> We didn't ask that. She came. >> Okay. >> So, uh >> different mayor. >> Yeah. Different mayor. different mayor. >> Yeah. But I'm just I'm just saying I
would I would feel a lot better. The more if you're going to do something like this, the more organizations you can get who are officially behind you, who are officially supporting you and are >> helping people, >> right? >> The better chance you have, especially if you go out trying to raise money.
>> Yeah. You know, I mean, who else can we get in town to be behind this, >> right? you know, the the the railroad association, the >> I actually have letters out to, you know, >> I have letters out to the Department of
Conservation and I recreation and uh the DOT. >> There you go. >> Exactly. >> It's transportation history, you know. >> Yeah, exactly. >> It's wild. They're going to be like, "No, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> you never know. >> If you don't ask, you will." Plus, I
mean, with American 250, it's not. Um, but long story, long story short, we had a grant opportunity that fell through. I applied today for $5,000 for the stage coach. >> And what would we use that for? >> It was just it would sit in the account.
>> It would sit in the account and like So, for example, the D the American Revolution will give us up to $10,000, but we need $10,000 in magic funds first. >> So, once we hit $10,000, we can apply for that. Then we have $20,000. Then we have $20,000. Oh, we can apply for a
matching grant or such and such. It builds up. >> Sure. Sure. Good. >> Yeah. We just need to make sure that we're applying for grants that like, you know, like how long is it going to take? Like two years before we have enough money to actually do that for how long it is. >> So, it expires at the end of December 2027.
>> Okay. So, we have suspended before then. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And probably as specific as we can get like a grant a grant wants to fund something, right? You don't want a fund sitting in a bank account. You're like, >> "Right." Well, that's the thing. >> What do you say you're doing?
>> We're restoring so they can be used like as a as a physical item that we can, you know, that way you're not what they see is product that goes out on the streets and people actually touch. It's not going to sit behind a glass and stuff just like, "Wow, thanks for your money." >> Yeah. >> It's going to sit behind glass. No, it's going to be it's going to be used.
>> Right. >> Right. >> And used. >> Yeah. >> And I for 5,000 it's not going to be >> No. No. I'm just saying. >> No, no, no. The ultimate goal. >> Ultimate goal. Yeah. >> Because it says, "How much is your project?" I said, "I'm going to give you $7,000. How much you asking for? I'll do
$5,000. I would like $5,000, please. Thank you." You know, and that's your >> I mean, you could use that for >> search money for where we're going to keep >> the price of the total museum. >> He's working on he's working on the building. And we got it.
>> Working on the building >> and they don't have any. >> No, they don't have the funding yet. They're doing the same thing that we are applying for grants. >> Okay. >> They're off. They're off. They're off. >> They have a lot of buildings. >> Yeah. He's going he's going constructed the building.
>> That's what I heard. Yeah. Okay. >> All right. Well, that's uh anything more about the coach? Only one other thing is if you're going to do a serious fundraising campaign, anybody who has raised serious funds knows that you have
to have a a director, a board of an organization that you put together specifically for that purpose to do that. Right. I've never seen
anybody No, no, maybe you could do it. You could give everybody another hat to wear, >> but I've got hats. But but the but I'm just saying that, you know, you need to organize it that way as opposed to the way we're organized in this way to be
able to do that. And if you're going to raise money in a community like this, the members of the board ought to be widespread through the community. president of bank. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Superintendent of the school system. You know, you go out and you get the big
hitters around town and you get them to >> put their shoulder to the wheel, so to speak. But they're drowning. You could >> Well, you know, you mentioned 250th. I haven't heard of any really exciting
>> because a lot of the preservation grants >> a lot of the historical preservation grants got the axe >> yeah but 250 >> there's an organization in eastern Massachusetts called two Bostonas or
something that has is organizing a whole bunch of events and they've got one arm that reaches out here and they're because they have come to the battlefield to to do stuff with conjun in conjunction with that and so they've got some event they're trying to get some
joint events going that that's out here. Uh and so there is some stuff going on. I haven't heard anything aside from that locally with regard to that celebration. I mean, I'm just thinking off the top of
my head, but could we ask to have the stage coach on a common sign that says we want to rebuild this? It's going to be great money here. >> How would we protect it?
>> That's a question. >> Oh, you mean Oh, from the one you put up a bend over it. But but second, that's really hard. >> Yeah. >> Given the given what happens downtown these days. >> Yeah. That's also quite a bit of money
that we have to be. I mean, you could put it out there for the day and then move it back. >> I'd babysit it. >> Well, say you say you get it out of the the garage and you put it on a low boy trailer. >> Yeah. >> And you fasten it down and support it so
the wheels don't collapse. Then you can run it, run it in and out, move it around. >> You can even just park the trailer. >> That's what I mean. Park the trailer and then use that, but then you can move it back to the garage and not so it'll be left out of the open. >> That's the hardest part, I think, at
this point would be getting it out of the DVW only because it's on the second floor and there's a you can see on the wall behind it, there's been a a section that's been break in where the doors used to be. >> It's on the second floor. >> It's on the ground floor. >> It's on the ground floor. Yeah, >> just on the set of stairs from the back.
>> Yeah, but if you had those guys that job, they would do it. >> Yeah, but there is like a ramp to get get it back. >> Or you back up a trailer to it and roll it out on >> loading kind of thing. >> They could if you The only problem you'd have to do is you'd have to make sure
that you didn't break the wheels. So, it has to be supported while you're doing that. But if you gave those guys a DPW three days and and the mayor telling them to do it, they could do it. There's no doubt about they could do a temporary
jig of some sort to support the weight. >> Oh. Oh, yeah. They could like jack it up under straight. If it was me, I'd build a t a timber framework to hold it and then move the timber framework onto the
>> very if that is >> easy to display it there. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, I'm just saying that that Yeah, that could be done. That's a good idea because a lot better to Yeah. get people to donate to something they can actually see.
>> I think it's also a massive undertaking. >> It's a massive undertaking. >> This is a massive undertaking. Is that that racing that much money? >> Yeah, >> that's a massive undertaking there. >> That's a big deal. >> A a middle grounds bringing the entire
coach out. It could be >> sign people make >> well you can make depending you have to get permission from like the city but like on the somewhere that people are >> regularly packing and get a you know $100 PVC sign with a wooden backing. I
mean think about $100 but get something that can be up >> like sure >> that can be at the there's however many hundreds and hundreds of people who are going to the fair every year you have a big sign there's like a QR code so
>> the fair that's a good idea >> by then we can get CPA funding too >> the city has the >> fair every Easy. >> Yeah, I I that's doable, but you know, that's a good that's the kind of thing you do if you're going to do a big fundraising event.
>> Yeah. Well, I just started because this was this was due tomorrow. And I was like, >> this is great. That would pay for the movement of the state. >> Exactly. >> Wow. >> That's not what the grant application is for, >> was it? But so
>> well we have to we'd have to we'd have to like change the scope of the application after the fact with them to be to cover our asses legally but >> probably >> but that's you know >> probably but but again you know I mean the city's serious about this you know you say oh it's going to cost it's going
to cost three days of effort by four DPW guys right who could do it in that time right you could do it I could do it if we could do it You could do what guys like you want to build. You need a bill, you can do it on your 3D printer. So
>> that's just a job. I think it's a job. >> Cultural council will also pay for an event for fundraising but won't fundra for that event. >> Perfect. Perfect. That's all you need. This is cultural. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. >> So that's the kind of thing that that I
I think this is really the way to go. I'm gonna have to look into some serious way to go. But I love having people and seeing how gorgeous it is saying, "Wouldn't you love to see this thing as new look like the data was built?" >> They're trying
>> because that's what these guys would do. >> Bring it right back to the way the original built. >> They're going to use like spect, you know, like spectroscopy and find out or, you know, whatever they want to call it. And they're going to literally take out each layer of paint and find out try to find out what it original color was back to that color.
>> Very >> very nice. Nice job. >> Nice job >> having fun with this. >> Um, so Sarah, just so I can close the loop on this one. So, you are starting to do some of the exploratory
fundraising for this. Um, something to look into. For some reason, the links aren't working for the Massachusetts 250 celebration. There is a link on their website for corporate matchmaking for projects where they're putting together companies that want to spend money with
historical projects that want money. And it looks like it's cities from all over. I'm trying to put the links to see what some of the stuff is and they links aren't working on blue. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Corporate matchmaking.
>> It's under >> programs. Go under programs and then corporate matchmaking. It may or may not apply, but it might. It might give us it might connect us with something. >> It's a romance, right? >> We're dig staring on the stage.
>> Honestly, the the guy who was here last time had a good idea. He, you know, we could might be able to if people are going to be inside of it, we could hide a little micro camera somewhere inside so they don't like anybody who gets to ride inside doesn't destroy it. You know, we have them on camp. That's one thing I wouldn't mind having added to
it, but that's again it's not up to me, you know? Right. Okay. So, we've got it a little long here. Um, digital publishing of conservative rebel. Anything we're going to report on that? >> Just the square thing. I set it up, but I'm figuring it out. It's
does it looks deceptively simple simple and I feel like I've just aged 50 years trying to like learn how it works. But, um, I'm going to try and have it done within the the next couple of weeks cuz now that my exam is over, I actually have time. I, uh, had to take an exam,
uh, last Friday at Springfield Technical Community College. So, I've been studying for that like crazy. Do they look at your glasses now? For Google glasses, >> right? I had that. I made the same noise. What's that? But anyway, so that's now
that I have more free time, I can get I just want to stop some stuff. >> Okay, wonderful. CPC air. >> Yes. Um, >> we we had our final votes. >> Um, it's gone. Now it goes to the
council and we'll have to Okay. Um, we did not have enough money for all the applicants this year. So, we had to be >> Well, you never have >> Well, actually, >> last year. >> Yeah, >> you did. >> Yeah. Yes, surplus here. >> Yeah, the the norm used to have north.
Um this year was unusual. Um but basically we went through let me see who uh got okay here. The uh city clerk did the Franklin Co-op for the Wilson building facade and the city clerk got the uh the need to get a scanner for the
documents. >> Um the Museum of Our Industrial Heritage got approved. um RDI for housing on Main Street, Greenfield housing for a security deposit fund. Um the conservation
commission didn't get all the money they wanted, but they got approved. Um the Department of Planning for Miller's Meadow and the Recreation Department for Beacon Field, which I was really happy about because when I've been going through all the data, the recck departments in the state are the rock stars of the CPC. I love those guys.
They just make the most reasonable requests I've ever heard. So I I just But that's who we we ended up it was a total of we allotted $243,330. >> Wow. >> To be handed out this year. >> Is it on the city's website?
>> No. >> No. >> I don't think it I don't think that goes out until after the council sees it. >> Well, I'm not sure about that. I just I we've got an email that's just a summary of what we've already done. That's all by I have
>> Can you give the specifics of the GFM grant Wilson's grant >> Wilson's building facade restoration? >> Yeah. >> Uh they were well we awarded them $60
>> and they asked for I don't recall I was >> they were like big big ass weren't they? >> I think it was hundred and something. Yeah. We just didn't have enough money. So some people got partial funding. Yeah. Most people got partial of funding, >> but you didn't spend it all.
>> Um, we did not quite dip into our surplus fund, which is sits there and is actually preferred to be left as a surplus fund. >> But you spent everything allocated from this year. >> This year we spent everything raised or very close to it.
>> What the the preservation project that didn't get funded was the the building on Corp Square. Or is there another sign project? >> Jordy Herald. >> Jordy did not get approved. >> That's the one on the corner. The one
down Jord. >> Yeah. I was doing one window down one bank. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Is that the only one that's going to get fun of the president? >> That's the only one. I have to look up what they were
checking to do. >> And when you were deliberating, >> um I just for future situations I would when was public comment >> heard and when was it most effective?
>> Um it was actually it was a couple weeks ago. I missed that meeting. I was down at my brother's in Connecticut and it actually it was twofold. There was one that was a meeting open to public comment and I think there was only about you know half dozen people showed up for
that. But they also Anna at city hall spread out like a website survey just in general out to anyone who wanted to fill it out. Please do. And then, you know, put all that together and
oh, and the church pulled out, >> they pulled their application. Um, when Anna informed them of the preservation restrictions that would go along with it, they pulled their application there. >> This is
St. James St. James. I remember they publish a link I remember for public input in the recorder >> and then had a section like the day after sharing all the things that you comment your things
>> Al's got a lot to say >> I read that >> that's got a lot to the murals >> the industrial heritage yet. >> Yes. Okay. And that wasn't very for the
paintings. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Five digits 16,7 expect all the preservation projects to get funding the b. Well, I disagree with I mean >> we're kind of history. We kind of wish
that everything would get >> I mean Jordy Harold was groundbreaking to invest in derelict buildings that nobody wanted and he broke ground for upper story development. So for him to be nicked because he's a private developer
>> was totally backwards. >> There's going to be some discussion. I George is a personal friend of mine, so I recuse myself from the entire >> Oh, you did? Oh, okay. >> Well, the question >> to do that. Yeah. >> Well, that's the question. I mean, I
think there's some valid questions about conflict of interest. >> Well, and I I also have have, you know, there's there there's some issues like there was a a repeated statement of, well, he can get a loan and yes, he absolutely can, but what's to motivate him to do so?
>> I mean, I mean, don't part of the problem is he doesn't live in this town, so let's not give him money. It's like, >> yeah, right, right. >> But he's pouring money into this town despite the fact that he doesn't live in this town. What more do you want from him? >> Again, >> I I I sat out on this one.
>> I'm not I don't agree with that. >> Yeah, I don't either. And I I think >> we should maybe next year to be there. >> There there's a lot that's going to fall under the um discussion. There's there's a scoring system that we all use that I
totally don't understand. Not let me rephrase that. I disagree with it. >> Okay. >> Like it's giving points to people like it it will give points to anyone who is helping a um you know basically a
marginalized portion of our which is a wonderful thing and we absolutely should do that. And yet there's nothing anywhere in the legislation that says we should give preferential treatment to people who do that. >> Right? >> So it's a wonderful thing but it's not our wonderful thing.
>> System doesn't parallel. Maybe what we ought to do is we ought to at this point remind ourselves when the next circle comes in, we perhaps need to take a more active role in some in some respects
with that especially with regard to the I mean so far we sort of confine oursel to writing letters >> but maybe we ought to consider if the project really resonates with us taking them when we're active building. I think it was well it was really helpful for me
to have people come to our meeting and really explain it and give us the opportunity to ask questions because then we can really support them because we've had interaction with them. >> And also part of the problem like like Jordy actually mentioned it in when he was presenting to us that that he his
company was putting money up front because that is something that the CPC likes to see >> that you you're invested too. >> Yeah. And that's another thing that I need to bring up because the whole point of the CPC is to plug holes in funding. It's it's where there already is not
funding, >> right? >> So when people come going, there's a hole in funding. Can you help us plug it? Why are we asking them? >> Have you already thrown money into the hole? >> Yeah. >> It seems like a really foolish question. And so I think there's and it's again
it's it's well it's like 25 year old legislation but it's new to us in this town >> and we're still ironing out defense >> right >> and and again I I I think every year this gets to this point we vote on it. We get it through and then we spend some
time talking about what happened, debriefing, doing damage control, figuring out how we're going to tweak it for next year, >> right? >> That's just how this goes. Hopefully the process gets better. >> Ideally, that's how life goes. Yeah. Every process gets a little better every
time we do it. >> Oh, >> well. Yeah. How how many people are up this year? >> Total. >> You say Jack Redmond, housing authority, Terry
Sters, historical commission, and Garfield mayoral driver. you want to put in your I mean you replace somebody think >> yeah this was my first year in >> yeah so >> that might be wrong >> that's probably wrong >> well no
>> not if you're >> not if you're appointed to fill a term >> oh well somebody anyway though >> so we should we should tell that you want to do it again >> yeah absolutely okay >> good for you >> and maybe we should >> oh it's very rare for me to agree with
legislation and I agree with the CBC CPA. So, >> it's I I almost never met a law I liked. >> Okay. >> You're up in June, I think. >> Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, it's I was
looking back at my So, I did not whatever it says, but I definitely didn't start till 2024. I don't know how long the terms are. >> It's three years. >> Three years.
>> Yeah. But I I started as an alternate maybe the end of 2023, but like I haven't even lived in Greenfield until in July of 2023. So I definitely had not been on this committee since July of 2023 because it
was at least six months before I came bunch of meetings that I alternates for like just as put you on. >> I don't remember but I know I looked back. >> He's coming anyway. You might as well put
>> anymore. You hang around long enough that you'll be a position. >> That's right. But but you're willing to reup. >> Yeah. If I is required. Yes, >> and is also about to be renominated as three years actually
>> and you at the end of the year. >> I did mine at the end, >> right? And you >> I did mine December. >> Yeah. So you were me. >> Oh. Oh, right. Well, when I decided was coming from inside the house.
>> Okay. Where is Doug? like anyway response to American TV. >> Great. So, we'll see. >> So, there are units for that meeting
that you talked about that you couldn't >> go to and reminding me of video up on the >> Albert's quoted like over and over and over again. >> Yeah. We need to count in the past. Did I feel like maybe I'm
remembering wrong, but did everything or most things get like a little bit of money? Like is it more common spread it around and everyone gets a ticket to have less money than is or Yeah. to have less money than is asked for? I think this year was >> the first time. Yeah.
>> This may be the first time that more was asked for. >> I think every year it's more. >> No. Yeah. Yeah, because I'm pretty sure last year a few of the projects got cut short. >> Well, that wouldn't necessarily be because of funding though. They a lot of them just don't get approved. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Even >> I was I I could have sworn that there's a couple of projects last year like historical ones that like got like a portion of they asked for because they like >> Oh, last year everything got really fun. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Recreation Star. Oh, yeah.
They wanted >> but it was because they they keep coming back and asking for recreation. >> Well, it's part of a larger project and costs keep increasing. >> The thing that gets me about the rec department is they always show up. They're like, "Okay, we got
>> all right. >> We got the trucks, the tools, the manpower, the time, the experience. We even got lunch. We just need a couple of bags of concrete. Where you guys sat?" >> You just make the most reasonable requests. If I may piggy back on this, um, I sent this to Terry earlier. So, I
don't know if anybody's familiar with Chapa, the I forgot what it's what it's actually called. I just took on their website and it's the Citizens Housing and Planning Association. So, Chapa is accepting applications now for a housing leadership academy and people um,
elected officials uh, people who are in historic preservation and people on CPA are encouraged to apply. It's six month uh like once a month class that you can take to get an understanding of how historic like particularly for us it would be things like how historic
commissions and particularly bylaws and things like that can affect the development of housing and it's just if anybody is interested in that they're taking applications now. So, I already applied because I think it's probably good to know for multiple reasons, but if I sent it to you, it's a it's
competitive. They last year they got 115 applications and they only have the capacity to do about 30 to 35 people. >> But they have a western master. >> Um they want some in person and some on Zoom. So, most of it will be in person and then they have Zoom ones that are,
you know, they want you to attend every single one and they're going to schedule them around when everyone is available. Oh my god. >> It's not a huge amount of hours over that time. >> It's like 25 hours. >> 25 hours. It's probably over six months or something. >> Yeah, it's not. >> It's not a lot. So, but they're um because of all the
housing things going on right now, but that I feel like the historical commission is at this it might be really prudent for us to consider having people apply. But obviously, if I'm applying and maybe you're applying, we don't really need a redundancy of applicants, but just something to be aware of because, you know, that's housing right
now is going to be a big thing, especially development on Main Street. So, I feel like I feel like we're gonna have to >> I mean, we should be throwing buckets of money at housing all day every day, >> right? Yeah. And we're going to have to walk in that line, too, between, you know, historic downtown and
>> Yeah. Yeah. get all of the second floor. >> Well, what do you mean? >> For example, the the uh last application that we we didn't get a demolition application approval until after it was partly going
on Washington Street. >> Oh, yeah. >> And we said, "No, this isn't a historic district extension." And no, we don't approve the demolition. Well, they've stopped all it's like been torn down and
I think in receiverhip or something. So, you know, even a little project be we can have adverse effects to the housing. You know, that's the thing, right? But for us especially we're going
to you know everyone's looking at the historical commission as this adversarial body already like especially with like the widely Russell day which I heard is getting approval by the way. I heard it's moving forward in about 2029. >> So I've heard that things are happening with that. >> When's it coming? Do you know? >> Don't know. I just this is I'm hearing
through the grape vine. This is not you know I don't actually have any official details. Just something about how yeah I think they got I think they got approved to maybe start as early as 2029. I was like really? But using that as a as an example of how people consider the historical preservationists kind of adversarial to progress, things like
that, those are things that if we're educated on this stuff in advance, it might actually help us to have better conversations when the time comes. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. So, that's CPC. And then, uh, progress on finding storage for the Wilson signage.
I don't have any. We haven't found it. And that's up there have the plastic is gone. >> Yeah, it looks like a lot more letters are down there. It was awful the other night. >> And I also um my concern is even if we found storage, when is someone going to
take it out? >> Soon soon. >> When when would they take it out of storage? Oh, if we got it stored somewhere, where would when would it ever come out of that store? Absolutely agree with you. I
really pushed the idea of trying to get them to use one of those letters or something in the design interior design of the of the building that they're doing. and and they said at one point they were amendable to that idea, but I
think that's the way to not not take it and put it away somewhere. >> And my my thing is even putting it away somewhere is fine, but I I always feel like there's need to be some kind of exit strategy that I said why can't it be used? Why can't it be for back on the front? Somebody suggested that. Yeah.
>> Um, and some of the signs, like the ones that have the W's and those are going to be used. And >> yeah, some of the signage is being reused. >> I I don't have any. I mean, if it's if it's office outside of the building and it's used on the inside of the building
for the decoration, >> I don't I don't have any It doesn't have to be the big one. It could be >> Well, in general, I I I like the idea of there being some acknowledgement of the past of the building. >> Exactly. >> In the new structure. I like that. And I've got >> Sure.
>> But that huge sign that's in the front of that thing is huge. Whereas the circle of W's you can put on a wall somewhere and it's nice to >> but and you know I I think those >> I like I just that big sign I and I
worry and this is not the first time I've had to worry about something like this coming up. It's like, okay, it's going to go there and when will it who's ever going to go there to take it out, >> right? >> Okay. So, I can just drop this as own business and what happens? >> I I think I think
>> enough >> I just don't think we're going to get any traction, honestly. >> Yeah. >> I I I don't think it's a question of dropping it. I think it's admitting defeat. >> Well, practicality. >> Yeah. >> I keep you lose some, man. You lose stuff. >> Yeah. I was just going to say they're
starting next week. >> I thought they started this week. >> I thought so, but I I have seen a tiny strip has come down and there's one orange cone, but they're going to block off the streets, >> right? >> And they can't according to Jim. They can't even
come down. >> So, it's not all happening. >> No. >> Yeah. The the only thing else that and I I won't die on this state and I I don't feel strongly about it. What we had talked about most recently was we store the signs and then we find a buyer for
like somebody who's willing to pay money for them like we did in grant in Milwaukee. It was letters from a movie theater marquee sign and we sold for you know 10 bucks a piece. But my thought initially was if you sort them not they stay in there and like there's so many
money somewhere in Greenfield who lives or in your region without connection with that building that they're willing to pay $100 for one of those letters because their last name starts with W or maybe I want that that's what we talking about say I mean it sounds like probably
the only buyer letters is Kramers >> and also can you get enough money for them to offset the cost of the storage, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Getting them there and you need to make enough money to at least pay for
>> anyway. Okay, that's enough of that. Um, National Alliance and Preservation Commission was uh >> I gave you all the web the >> Yes. >> website access so you can just get in
and I think that's all I'm gonna now. Yeah, that's all we need. >> I mean, if you want to get emails, >> I don't read the email on yet. >> I know either. >> Is that it for old business?
Hey, new business. I haven't seen any demo applications. >> It's winter. It's cold. Leave it down. It's green. >> Anyway, uh I'll just double check with Mark. U and he's using
>> Yeah. Speaking of >> uh I don't need to throw this on you in front of everybody. Would you be willing to take on that spreadsheet? >> What is taking on me? like just adding the rest of the data points on it and then you had thought about maybe using
putting GIS data with >> take a look at >> I haven't touched it in a little while and I'm actually my field of vision is actually like taking a little bit like this towards the demolition delay. >> Yeah. >> Oh, no. So that's but that's
>> so that's so that's one of the things that I was thinking about tackling next because I'm on ANL I can actually just I can work with the council see how that will go. Um and I was like this project needs to be updated needs to be finished and I would like to pass it off to
somebody and I think that you have a go text and we'll have a conversation. >> Yeah. So I'm willing to do so in complete ignorance of what I'm saying I'm willing to do. Oh, it's about it's about 80%. >> I am reserving my right to back that.
>> Absolutely. So being he could use 80% of it. >> He's got up to the 80%. >> Yeah. >> Which is fine. >> So I can totally >> once it's done, we can give it to Ella and then Ella can crack. >> Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, that is the
next item >> legislation of NGL4C. Uh it's back on and it's back in a new new version telling you >> and actually my takeaway from the
information session that I attended up last Friday is that they want to have a uniform enabling legislation across the commonwealth >> that that has the demo delay in it
And some people are objecting to that because that means that these that are a little reluctant to support historic commission might not set up a historic commission because they don't want the demo delay. But if you have it as part of the
legislation, then it's stronger and it can't be overruled in court. Right now the demo delay is like because of some decisions in Cambridge or Boston or so. I don't know, but it could be challenged
like Roie Wade and it could be tossed molding tossed. >> So I actually think it would be good to have uniform and Michigan does that. They're enabling legislation for your commissions includes a demo delay of a
uniform amount. And that way developers know that they build something in Greenfield, it's going to be a six 12 month delay or in Deerfield or you know they they are going to sort of shift around based on who's got the easiest way through because it'll all be the same.
>> That also means is that the the real powerhouse historical commissions are in East >> and those old towns over there that won't let you chance to call their paint on your mailbox. Uh, >> but that's because they have districts. >> You don't have a district.
>> I know, but I'm just saying this is bad, but I'm just saying that they're going to want to have the best strictest interpretation of that and they're going to be the people that are laying out what this new legislation is
going to include. I mean, they're no object to it. or or either one or or try to stop it because it isn't as top tough as theirs, right? >> That they already have more in place. >> Does that mean that it's a universal floor, not a ceiling?
>> Yeah, my my guess would be legislation's looking at floor. And I said, >> and that's the case. >> It sounds >> then why would they object to it? Yeah, I haven't I haven't at the meeting, but I've been reading all of the emails that have come through on the list serve and it sounds like the major the thing that
everybody I mean I in the preservation this serve there's nothing positive about it that's come through except for from the guy who helped write it. I mean it is universally
>> which is keep an open mind. >> What is the issue? The issue is from my understanding uh is that it's so right now there's historical commissions like us and if you create a historic a locally designated historic district which we
don't have then with a locally designated historic district you can put in the legislation the ability to require that demolitions have to get approval from a historic district commission. So you have a tool
that is much stronger than a demolition delay. Right? >> So right now if you create a historic district, the district commission can say no, you cannot tear this building down without our approval. And my understanding is that this legislation would say that historic district commissions can no longer have that
power. The strongest tool they can have is a demolition delay. So there would be no way for any historic district commission in the states to stop a demolition. They could only delay it. is my understanding. >> Yeah, I think that might be right.
>> So, wait. Does that mean that there is no way for them to do it or they just have the ability to just wave their hand and make it happen taken away? >> Say it again. >> Well, you said there's no way for them to stop it from happening, but the way
that exists now, they they have that power that they can just exercise. And if that is taken away, does that mean there is no other way for them to stop a demolition? Like there there's still courts there.
>> Well, I mean they having >> for my if you have a legal >> I mean yeah historic preservation commissions don't have the resources to be able to take all kinds of buildings. the the resources of any historic
district commission is much less than any developer who's tearing down a building. So if you take away the only legal tool in the state >> but that allows >> that's a really blunt tool >> just no
I mean that's the whole idea behind preservation is that there are certain buildings that should not be torn down and you and that is that's the full idea behind historic districts that there are some places where the community gets a
say through the historical district commission that allows the community through a public process to have a say over the future of a building. And if you don't have that, there's no way that the community has any say or any kind of representation in the decision for a
building to get torn down. The most anybody can do is say, "Let's take a little bit of time and think about it." But there's no way to stop it. I mean, someone could tear down >> Austin City Hall or like any any building on the National Register. I mean, it's not a good example, but there'd be nothing to stop
>> too soon. >> There'd be no tool to stop any building in the Commonwealth from being demolished. >> So, German, you would argue that it should be separated changes to the historic district legislation should be separated from the district.
>> I love the idea. I'd like from again from my limited understanding so far, I think it'd be great to apply this to places where it doesn't already exist outside of historic districts. maybe universal across the Commonwealth, but within historic districts allow them
the opportunity to still have the power to require the demolitions come through them. But it sounds like what the way it's written is that it applies and nullifies the powers of historic district. >> So, are we taking this as like a temperature of the of the way that the
state feels about some of these historic buildings? Because technically anything over like 50 years is historic. You could argue that you could put it on their registry, but are we are we getting this idea that some of these old buildings are not technically historical unless they're like significant historic
buildings and that we can just get rid of some of these older buildings that are not up to code because they're more expensive things like that. Are we making way for housing at the expense of our historic buildings? >> Uh I mean my I my understand is that about this legislation or about
>> Yeah. Like is it is it kind of like a cold read of the way that the state feels though? >> I don't and you may know more than I do. >> No. >> No. Mass historic feels like they weren't consulted. >> Yeah. >> I I think the massive kiss of death.
>> Well, no, it's not because MHC is like >> because they don't write the laws. >> They have no power really. >> I mean, if you could extend you, I think it shows that
half of Massachusetts has no demolition delay at all. >> Yeah. And promoting that I think is a good thing. >> It's really worthwhile. >> We agree I agree with that part. The part I don't agree with is is is taking
stuff away from the from the comm from the district >> from historic district zoning districts which only the fancy places have. I think there's only 27 communities that have historic districts and there are
Salem and >> Robins. We considered making a district here >> district. It'd be great. It'd be great just going to >> for your statistical information
that >> there are 351 cities and towns with historical commissions but only 160 have demolition delays. >> Okay. Right. So >> So every community almost all cities have one but only not even half have any
sort of demo delay. >> Right. And it's interesting what they do to historic district. >> To to be fair, there's a lot of towns in in the state that I can see not having any kind of demolition delay because they're just so rural,
>> right? >> Yeah. I mean, they have like very >> So what? It's an old bar. >> Yeah. They have like very little development in the first place. They're probably very poor communities that would benefit from any sort of >> and whatever is I mean like my my view on it is that I
think that the town should just have the choice whether or not to have a demolition delay. I think like I think that's a good system to have like it's you know what works for Boston doesn't work for Greenfield works for Hfield doesn't work for Lee or Dalton or or uh
Philipson or you know full rain like >> I know that was one of the things that I've read about with this that I >> that it mandates this right a specific >> does it mate across the Yeah. >> So it does make
>> Boston and have to have the same Yeah. >> My guess would be they intended to be like, you know, the rural communities in Boston are never saying. >> No problem. >> Yeah. But I would also not be all surprised if
part of your reasoning for doing this is to not only increase the power of the more rural and smaller towns but decrease the power of the richest and biggest towns. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I think it's great to encourage like places who don't think
they have anything to your places are important too. I think if I I agree with the >> the spirit and I think it's really well invented with the executions exactly. >> It'd be interesting to know how many states have consistent enabling legislation that moves down all the way.
I mean I thought it was interesting that Michigan did. >> Yeah. I know Wisconsin doesn't. >> No. >> Yeah. California just >> I mean so so this legislation is sponsored by
Joe >> is she still sponsoring it because she last >> no she hasn't passed like nobody likes it >> I think it's been resuscitated somewhat so anyway Well, at least we invite Joe
Cooper to one of our meetings and be like, "What the hell?" But as long as long as we keep an eye on it. >> Yeah. Everyone's being bold to assume this country because time passes faster than we >> every it will require the review of all
proposed demolitions of buildings 50 years of age or more. Every building. >> 50 years >> technically. And so >> it would be required by >> um and the delay period would be 12 to 24 months
>> and a review process required would be require all buildings 50 years or more be reviewed in a public hearing with mailed notice requirements to >> and commission would have the option of requiring the developer to hire a
consultant professional to explain whether it was Well, it sounds a lot like what we have now and what we do in Greenfield >> to be had. I wish we had Filipino people of our >> kind of a hard time understand
my issue with the power story, but this is like there are buildings all over the place that get torn down because we have an inherent bias against buildings that are 60 years old or older. We don't know the historic significance because looks shabby, but we don't know. There used to
be a place where Mexican immigrants used to have pickle like whatever like history that we don't know about because it's a cultural history that stuff. >> But further end of the spectrum, the guy next door to me who built his own garage 60 years ago and wants to tear it down,
we're going to make him get a consultant. And >> yes, that's my like my problem like I think >> I think my problem is the fact that like the the more >> public hearings
>> it's simply the age of the building and not the significance of the building. >> Yeah. >> Obviously if something's important in it like yeah I don't know and like and like me as like private property owner like it's my house like my house is overund years old. I should be able to do whatever the hell I want with it at, you
know, at the end of the day. Like, >> as long as you're not a district. >> Yeah. You know, you know, >> um or in, you know, history be damned. I mean, I hate to say it, but like it's my house. Like, the reality is is like if you're digging your backyard and you
find an archaeological site, there are no bodies involved. You own it. >> Yeah. >> It's yours to do what you want with >> Yeah. >> Whatever. You can destroy it. You can It's yours. You own the property. >> Yeah. It's like >> I know there's there's
>> there's a balance between like >> laws are set up. This country was founded on land. >> Yeah. I mean there's I think I think that's like >> but it's not >> not right but that still wastes >> I think it's I think it's finding the balance. There's some sort of balance that they need to find. You can't go
like >> and Native American pottery. >> You own it. It's on your land. >> It's your land. You own it >> artifacts, but you're obligated. >> I'm not happy about these laws, but
that's the way it is. >> You own You own what's you own what's buried on your land. >> Research. >> You own what's buried on your land. I don't have to do research. I'm an archaeologist. I've dealt with these laws for years. >> It's unfortunate. It's horrible. >> Well, then why do
>> It's one of the problems that we have. Why do all these property owners have to hire an archaeologist to to explore whether there's >> As a matter of fact, they only have to do that um in the state if there is uh
state or federal money behind whatever project has them digging up. If you're digging your own backyard and you find something, it's yours. >> Yeah. >> By law, unless there are bodies. Bodies, whole different set of things. >> Okay. And I mean like and like the thing
like you know the thing is like if I was digging my backyard and I found something that seemed to historic significance I pro you know I'd probably do something responsible >> right >> but there's nothing stopping you from destroying >> Yeah legally. >> Yeah. The same isn't true of buildings and I don't know about like with buildings, you know, we talk about a
lot. We have a concept because it's rolled into our head as American American property rights and we own our property and like you own property, you get a bundle of rights, but it's not like people especially historic I own my house. Well, that doesn't mean you can
do whatever you want. In this municipality, there are rules about what you can do with your house. Hopefully you know what that is. when you buy a house and we don't >> you're basically saying filling out >> I mean it too is just if it's if it's
not a zoning district if it's just a national registered district you can do whatever >> correct but the municipality has the right to create >> districts where you can't >> but it's one of those sad realities that usually wants to build that but they
throw money on it else itself. I'll entertain a motion to hear. >> I'll second it. >> No, sorry. So motion. >> All those in favor of
unanimous. And because there's nobody online, we don't have to take a roll call vote. Little folks Instagram.