--------- So, it is 5:33. We'll call the meeting of the King Advisory Board to order. Um, and we'll do a quick roll call. Um, Jonathan Weber here. Steve Membercow
here. Flurry here. Andrew Cran is Oh, >> um, Andrew Cran is not here and we received notice today that Anthony is resigning from the committee sadly. So,
um, >> we have a forum with our two alternates and me. So, >> we're good to go. Um, first item on our agenda is to hold elections.
Um, I think I suggest we just hold elections for the position of chair and not for clerk. We don't have um either the other number here. Um,
>> so volunteer >> for chair. Yeah, >> we're all presents. So, >> yeah. Yeah, >> at least at least for tonight, I'll happily volunteer as chair. >> We can make sure, right? Or >> uh well, so I'll I'll I'll nominate
myself. Yeah, >> can do that. And then um the rest of any nominations still make we can make motions but we can't vote. >> Yeah, you can still have a full house of sitting members.
You can we're >> observed. I'll make a motion to nominate you as the chair. Yeah, I >> All right. So, let's go. Let's go to election. Um, we have a nomination for
for me to serve as chair. We'll just do all in favor. >> I I All right. So, I'll serve as chair and we'll hold off on the election for clerk. Um and uh
join us also with the department of telecommunications and cable. Um so we are now at public comment. Uh is there anyone here from the public who would like to speak? Okay. Hearing none, we'll close public
comment at 5:36. And uh that brings us right into uh new business. So first up, um I'm very thankful to have um Kevin Roberts and um sorry, how do you how do you pronounce
your name? Ney like the river. >> Nyle, great. Thank you for being here. Uh guys, really appreciate it. uh we're gonna hear a presentation from Kevin Nile about uh the function of cable advisory committees um and the contract renewal process. So uh if you guys are
ready, go ahead and take it away. >> Fantastic. Thank you so much. Uh we we really appreciate uh the invitation to be here and to present. Um thank you to to Jonathan and um for you know our ongoing conversations already. Um, and
you know, we look forward to to working with you throughout this process and helping out uh in whatever way uh we can. So, as you said, my name is Kevin Roberts. Uh, I'm an attorney with the Department of Telecommunications and Cable, and I'm I'm joined by Nile Quinland, um, who's our chief
parallegal. And, uh, we were invited to present today. Um and uh for those of you who have been involved in government for a little while, you may remember um our predecessor agency which was the Department of Telecommunications and
Energy. Uh that agency for a while um regulated both telecommunications and cable as well as as the name suggests energy. Um the that department was uh restructured you know within the past 20 years. uh
and now we have a separate department of telecommunications and cable um and a separate department of public utilities. So, uh, you know, we are thrilled, um, to serve Greenfield as well as, uh, the other 350 municipalities, um, and assist
all of them, uh, in their cable licensing processes, whether that's, uh, in, uh, getting a new cable license underway, uh, or renewing an existing process, uh, license, transferring a license from one operator to another.
Um, you know, we're here uh really to serve as anformational uh guide uh and to answer any questions that you may have. >> So, as a a resource for, you know, municipal officials, uh we don't give specific advice. uh we
don't give legal advice and that's because the department of telecommunications and cable is authorized by state statute to serve as the appellet body when there is a conflict between a municipality and a cable operator. So because that is one
of our roles, we're not able to provide specific advice. Uh we're not able to participate in negotiations unless there's a formal proceeding before us. uh we have to remain neutral throughout that proceeding. But nevertheless, we we do have the latitude to provide all of
the information and experience that we have um and answer any questions that you have. And obviously, please feel free to to ask questions if for any reason we can't answer them. We'll obviously let you know. Um but that shouldn't shouldn't scare you away from asking. So, we hope that today you'll
get kind of a quick overview of what this process looks like moving forward. Um, please feel free to interrupt with any questions that you have as we move on. And uh, with that, I think we'll we'll jump right in.
So, the federal uh, law that governs cable licensing uh, grants uh, the 50 states their own authority to regulate the cable licensing process. Uh here in Massachusetts, that right uh is
delegated to each municipality. Uh it's regulated at the state level by the department of telecommunications and cable, but ultimately each municipality has its own issuing authority. In Greenfield, that's the mayor. And that issuing authority is
responsible for ultimately starting and signing um the final license. So the that you know issuing authority um is really the individual or board that
oversees the whole process. Um but they are per our regulations and as you all are well aware are able to appoint a cable advisory committee or board. Um so I you know want to personally thank you all. Um, I know it's uh, you know, it's
not a very well-known process, but uh, serving on the cable board not only benefits the thousands of cable subscribers in your own city, but but many thousands more in the city that aren't cable subscribers, but benefit
from access to the the public uh, programming that comes through your Peg channels. um and you'll come to understand through this process precisely how the cable licensing um relates to that process.
So we for the sake of this presentation will stick to the process of renewing an existing license uh since we understand that you're currently in the process of renewing a license that you have with Comcast. So for that renewal process there are
really five distinct stages. There's the formal initiation which Greenfield has already um successfully uh achieved. Uh there's uh what you'll be entering now which is the ascertainment period um by the issuing
authority. Following the ascertainment, there are negotiations between you all and the cable provider. There is the receipt of the final proposal from the operator. And then there is the acceptance of that final
proposal which includes uh you know under state law uh a public hearing on that license. So I'll briefly discuss the the initiation process though uh I though that's already been done through the appointment of all of you as members and
alternates on the the cable advisory board. So the formal process is initiated either by the cable operator sending a letter to the municipality uh indicating that they want to initiate the process uh and start the renewal
discussion. Um that's typically known as a 626 letter or 626 letter. Um and that simply refers to the section of federal law that discusses this this uh process. um that the formal process can also be
started as is the case with the co your current uh contract with Comcast uh through initiation just by the municipality itself. Um so following once the process is initiated
um and you all uh start to begin your work uh what there the formal process next step in the formal process is this ascertainment period um that's where the community conducts a variety of inquiries to determine its needs um and
to really enter the next the negotiation stage with as much information um as you can possibly have um and really the the confidence that um you all as a committee are on the same page moving
into negotiations um and you feel equipped uh with the knowledge uh that you need. So, uh, uh, broadly speaking, um, kind of at a higher level, um, a license can be
renewed for up to 10 years, uh, per law. Um, it can be renewed for as little as 30 months in a day, though that's highly unusual. Um, the typical, uh, renewals are for either five years or 10 years.
Um the length of the new renewal is one of the areas that is frequently discussed during negotiations. Um and uh generally you know the cable operator
traditionally seeks a longer term contract um that locks in certain benefits and rates and obligations for a longer period of time. It also means that they don't have to return um and
negotiate um you know in you know in short succession. Uh they are negotiating with a lot of municipalities. So, you know, off from their side, sort of the one of the benefits for them is that the longer um
that uh license is uh is good for the, you know, the the longer they can project out how much they're going to be paying, what obligations they have, um and allocate their resources accordingly. Uh that same benefit
applies to municipalities. uh you know the longer um that a renewal license is for a municipality um the more stable um you all can rely um on those terms. So um there is a benefit
again benefit pros and cons for both parties of a shorter uh renewal period and um you know if there was say a 5-year renewal period um a possible benefit is that the is that a m for a municipality is that a municipality may
uh come back after a shorter period of time and circumstances may have changed. there may be different needs. Uh they may, you know, that presents an opportunity for a municipality to come forward, conduct a new ascertainment process, discover what those needs are
and try to obtain that from um from the cable operator. And from the cable operator side, um there's also a possible benefit of a shorter renewal proc uh renewal length. Um and that benefit is that um you know the is that
you know largely cable as cable subscribership is has been decreasing um there may be less usage um of egg channels there may be less usage of infrastructure um and so there's a possible you know
benefit to um a shorter renewal period for a cable operator as well where they can come in and the landscape may have changed um and it's possible that they could negotiate terms that are more favorable favorable to them. Um so as I mentioned you know we we don't get involved in the negotiation process but
if any um aspect or facet of federal or state law um or just general procedure comes up uh we are certainly happy to to answer those questions. Um, and I'm going to turn it over shortly to Nile to
go a little bit more into the specifics of what that looks like, what that ascertainment process looks like. U, but before I do, I just want to flag that there are certain topics um that under law cannot be addressed in the license. Um, a few of those are the programming
that's provided by the cable operator, the rates that are charged by the cable operator, and the provision of services other than cable that are provided by that same company. Um, so the cable operator's first amendment rights protect the the content um, their
programming that they provide. Uh, rates are regulated at to the extent that they are regulated are regulated at the state level. And then uh under federal law um it's uh uh an issuing authority is not permitted
to negotiate services other than cable uh through a cable license. So frequently we get questions about well can we negotiate broadband since uh a provider is
offering both cable and broadband. Um and the answer is unfortunately or fortunately no. Um we get similar questions about can we uh can we regulate voice? Can we regulate VOIPE or landline? Um and uh the answer is
through this process no. Um this process is is strictly limited to uh cable. Um but what you can um negotiate uh Nile will will get into in a second. Um but
broadly um it will be the funding that uh is provided by the cable operator to uh fund public access programming. Um that's served serviced to your
constituents. Um it's also um actual access to cable services um for your constituents. So, uh, a very common topic that will come up through these negotiations is, uh, if there are areas that are not being
served, um, or areas that are being underserved in terms of actual physical access to the system, the cable system, that's also a large piece of what gets discussed. Um, so, uh, if anyone has any
questions for me at this point, um, I'll I'll hear them. And if if not, I'll turn it over to Nile. >> You have any any questions for any members if they have some questions on what? >> Yeah. Uh let's let's go ahead to uh yeah
to our friends at GCTV. >> Hi. Uh Mick Mhler. I'm the president of the board of GCTV. And here's uh Bella who's a station manager. Um, you said that there could be different uh uh term periods. You said five years and 10 years. What's the longest that a contract could go?
>> Yes, thank you. Uh, that's uh thank you for being here and that's a great question. Uh, the longest term uh is 10 years. >> All right, great. Thanks for the question. Anything else? All right, great. Let's keep moving
then. >> All right. Thank you, Kevin. Um, so I'm going to dive into the ascertainment period, but feel free to stop me if you have any questions or, uh, I'll ask again at the end of it. Uh, so there are three actions a municipality can take during the ascertainment period. Uh,
first of which is holding a public hearing. Um while you are obligate the a community is obligated to hold one public hearing before a license is signed uh we encourage at least an one additional hearing as well to be held at the beginning of ascertainment period.
Um that way it can uh allow members of the public to weigh in on the areas they feel they need to be addressed in the upcoming license negotiations. And uh it serves as a safety net for uh you the municipality. Uh should anyone
any subscribers indicate that after the license is signed that the municipality was not responsive to anyone's needs, you can point to the public hearings that you held. Um second, uh holding meetings with diverse groups to better understand the needs of the community.
Uh municipalities also benefit from the groups uh that are involved with them like local access community uh stations uh emergency services such as fire uh police EMS and uh public institutions like schools, libraries, community
centers and senior centers. Uh and the third and final is sending out a survey to maximize the collection of feedback and learn of areas where the operator has faraed well and where it has faraed poorly. Um
you should keep in mind I think that the uh operator can also send out these surveys as well uh to see where uh the community wants uh what they might want in the upcoming license as well. uh throughout
the process. Uh some topics to consider. Uh Kevin touched on some of them. Uh one is the term length of the renewal. Um the service area and line extensions, uh system upgrades, uh future technology,
whether it be like HD channels. Kevin, you mentioned something else that uh I wanted to write down, but I can't remember it off the top of my head. And lastly is access. Um, understanding the renewal time frames is also essential to ensuring a successful
and smooth renewal process. Uh, once a community receives a formal proposed uh, proposal from the cable operator, uh, it has 120 days or until the end of the license term to either grant or deny the proposal uh, whichever one is sooner. So, if a denial is made, uh, it must be
made upon strong evidence that the oper operator has failed in one of the four following areas. uh the first of which is the operator's compliance with all material terms of the existing license. The second is the overall quality of the operator's service uh including but not
limited to signal quality and customer service. The third is the operator's financial and technical capability of providing service for the term of the license. And the fourth is the operator's satisfaction of the community's
reasonable future cable related needs. In the new proposal, uh the DTC encourages each community to have its ascertainment process complete a year before the license expires and hopefully no later than 6 months prior
to the expiration date. Uh once it's complete, the municipality can provide its findings to the operator who can incorporate these findings into a proposed license. Uh the operator cannot provide this proposal until the municipality has indicated that it has
completed its ascertainment. Uh but once the proposed once a new proposal is received the 120 day day time frame kicks in. Um while negotiations are ongoing operators can agree to negotiate informally known as the informal
process. Uh this process is used uh I mean you already correct me if I'm wrong but you already initiated the formal process right? I'm happy to uh go into detail about the informal if you want but >> yeah we have we have initiated the formal process but it would be helpful to understand the formal process. I
understand a lot of contracts are sort of negotiated with both processes in parallel. >> Yeah absolutely. Um yep so the informal process is used when there are no major points of disagreement between the parties. Um it allows the operator to go back and forth with the proposed license
until an agreement is reached. uh operators are encouraged to use the informal process as a means to initiate the cable licensing negotiations. Um basically it's not uh it's not starting the clock of that 120day uh period. Uh
we also encourage municipalities to consult with their own council uh as to what negotiations are uh appropriate to keep the process informal as if it's the way uh they wish to proceed. Uh if the municipality or their council wish to initiate the formal process uh there are
three important factors to consider. Um municip first of which municipalities are encouraged to maintain regular contact with their council to determine if the formal process is appropriate at any part of negotiations. Uh the final license should be agreed to under the formal process in order to
protect uh appallet rights. uh a potential appeal will only reference what has occurred during the formal process of obtaining a cable license. Uh and third, whenever a propos when proposals are exchanged under the informal process, the operator must make
sure to label its proposal as draft uh or some other designation to indicate that this is not the formal process otherwise that's when the 120day time frame kicks in. Uh that is all I have uh presented. So if anyone has any questions about
informal process, formal process or anything else, please let us know. >> Yes. So if um if we're sort of going through an informal process and formal in parallel and we receive a proposal
not marked draft from the cable provider, do we just need to give them some kind of notice of return that's we're not accepting it as a formal proposal or how do we handle that? Yes, it it hasn't come up in in my
experience. Um but if you were to receive a proposal that that didn't have a disclaimer um either on the document itself or or in you know whatever communication accompanied it saying that it was an informal draft. >> Yeah.
>> Um then I would re then typically what would happen is you would reach out and confirm is this your final proposal? Um, and if the answer is yes, then then that 120day clock begins, um, if the answer
is is no, and they say, "Well, no, that's actually not our formal proposal. It it's intended as a draft." Um, there's a little bit of a gray area there and and at that point, I'd probably recommend that you talk to um to your city solicitor or council.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It seems as though that all we're really negotiating here is the franchise fee and the um how much they support our local public access television. Was that a fair statement?
So, those are typically the two largest areas that that are discussed. Um I do recommend that if if you haven't already, you know, take a take a good look through your current contract. Um feel free to also take a look through um
the contracts of surrounding communities um to see what else has been included. Um there are um there there are other things uh that are included uh in this and the the biggest one being
um the uh provision of what are known as cable drops essentially just providing access um to the the cable system and then actually the provision of free cable services to public um
institutions. So um you'll you'll find I happen to be reviewing you know in preparation for this meeting I was reviewing your contract right now. Um, so one of the other major areas that you have is, you know, there's there's a whole appendix, uh, I believe appendix A to your contract that lists out all of
the public buildings um, that are to that will receive a, you know, free access to the cable network and receive free cable services from the operator. Um so if there are any if
there are any please uh you know review that list um to make sure that you know if there are any schools that have been renovated or changed um or you know if the names have been changed you know for clarity sake wanting to update that
list. Um certainly if you know any new public facilities have been built um you'll want to you know amend that list to make sure that it's up to date so that um services are provided to everyone. But um I I did a look and you know there are in addition to schools I
believe um on on the list are the you know most of your municipal um office buildings. That's the other major um point of of negotiation. >> And now is there um somewhere where we
can look at other cities and towns what they have negotiated in their franchise fee? Is that is there like a repository of information that way? Yes, absolutely. So, on our website um which is mass.govdtc >> um you'll be able to go enter a you know
click onto a portal um that has just a links to all of our cable licenses. >> Um if there's anything on there that you're not able to find, feel free to reach out to me um or Nile and I see Nile uh put the direct link into
the chat there. Um, so >> it's always up on my computer. It's always it's always within arms reach. >> Um, yes. Uh, you know, major thanks to Nile. Nile actually is, you know, is the one who's primarily responsible for for maintaining and uploading all of those. Um, and I feel now is a good point to
say, um, one of your your other responsibilities, um, as the cable advisory committee, um, is to actually provide that final license to the department, um, so that we can upload it to our website. please. >> Um, so we thank you in advance um for
for your diligence on that that matter. Um, so yes, you can access uh other municipalities uh u franchises um and you can go through and compare them. Um that's also uh an area where I'm happy to answer questions. Um and I'm I don't
want to speak for now, but I'm sure he's also happy to answer questions. um if you you know want to know oh are there municipalities that have this provision in there um we are always available to to kind of do that kind of research for
you um so please feel free to use us as a resource in that way >> and one last question and just say we get enough people come out and say oh I I just hate Comcast we need a new we need a new company for this reason or another what is the reality of actually
getting a like a charter spectrum in here or something like that. >> Sure. Um so, you know, I can't I can't speak for for the likelihood um because, you know, that's that's really up to the the private companies as to whether or
not they want to come in and and service the the city. Um what I can say is there's a process that we didn't discuss today um where the city would open up um
a process to seek new applicants essentially. Um that's a a separate process from this specific renewal process. Um, and you know, I'm happy to to kind of go into some of those specifics, but the city has the
discretion at any point um, throughout this um, renewal process or after this renewal process to, you know, conduct a a It also requires public hearings, but to, you know, conduct public hearings, hear from the
community, have them say, "Yes, you know, we need we are looking to seek new operators in our municipality. Um, and then essentially send out um, uh, it's not quite a formal, you know,
request for proposals, but it it's a request for, um, for cable licenses, let's say. Um, and any operator at that point is then free to submit, uh, a proposed license, uh, to service the city.
It's uh to piggy back on on Steve's question. Um part of our job here is to um ascertain how our residents how happy they are with the service satisfaction. So with that, are we able to request
surveys and claims from from the cable company? uh also the access strand maps as to how far they've gone or where there are underserved parts of the cities. Are we able to request that information from them?
>> You can absolutely request that information. Uh in terms of customer complaints, our department uh you know solicits complaints from constituents. You know, our our number is is at the top of of every cable bill that goes
out. Um, and we have a whole division that's responsible for receiving calls and online complaints. Um, and all that information is public. So, if you want if you'd like any information um that we have, we can always make that available. Um, and depending on the the terms of
your specific um your specific uh license, I know some municipalities um have it in their license that complaints that are received are also reported to the issuing authority. Um,
so you may already have that. um that may also be if that's something that you're interested in, something that you can discuss uh with the company, but certainly um certainly complaint data to the extent that we have it, we're we're that and we're able to provide it as a
public record. Um we're more than happy to do that. Um, and you're more than you're you know you're more than welcome to, you know, during negotiations request any information that that the cable operator has. If they have confidential information, they may not
be willing to share it. Um, but uh that one of the benefits of the informal process is, you know, being able to, you know, sort of ask those questions back and forth and and go through the whole process um as you're discussing specific
terms. Um and I just want to quickly um jump on another aspect of your question which is in terms of where is actually being serviced. Um so what what that service area actually looks like and if anyone's not receiving service. Um
that's a really you know that's a good important question uh to be asking. Um, I know often, um, you know, departments of of public works will, uh, sometimes have maps of where utility lines run within the city or utility poles, um,
are located in the city that have certain connections. So that's also a resource at at times. But yeah, definitely something that um you'll want to um discuss uh with with whoever the the cable operator is to, you know, get
an idea of where within the city, you know, that service is actually available and if somewhere isn't being served there. There's a require typically in cable licenses. This is getting a little bit in the nitty-gritty, so you can feel free to stop me. Um but typically within
cable licenses the m there will be an agreement between the parties that service will be provided by the cable operator to all dwellings um so long as they are a certain
distance away from the line. U this ranges anywhere from you know 150 feet to 200 feet I believe. Um, so as long as a home is, you know, within that di within that distance to an existing
line, then they can receive a free they can receive, you know, a connection to that line free of charge. And if they're farther away from that, which typically happens in more rural communities, um then the individual customer may have to pay for additional infrastructure like
um like an additional uh pole being installed um or additional runs um to be serviced. Um they also there also typically is a provision that says uh that lists the
minimum density of residents and says that if there are x number of residents within you know an aerial mile then those residents have to be served
by the cable operator. Um, so that's another area where depending on whether it's, you know, really densely populated, um, city or a more rural city or town, um, you know, that can make, you know, that may not be an area of concern for
some municipalities because, you know, they're so densely populated that everyone qualifies. Um, but particularly out in central and western Mass, there are a lot of communities where where those numbers can make a big difference. um especially if there are uh new real
estate developments or things like that where there are actually you know a large number of you know individuals that um that are are either going to be um out there and and need service um or are out there now and don't have
service. So taking a look at those numbers um and making sure that those numbers line up with your goals is is another big piece of it. Um, can you talk a little bit about how cable operators and municipalities kind
of land on a reasonable number for things like a franchise fee and the public access rate? Yes. So there uh there are certain limits and it's a bit of a a nuanced um
discussion but um there is the federal law distinguishes between what's considered part of the franchise fee and then what's considered what are called capital costs.
So the franchise fee is capped at 5% of the revenue from the cable subscribers within the municipality. Um I believe after reviewing uh your um your city's contract that I believe
you're you're at that 5% number. Um that's not true for everyone, but that number is capped at 5%. So that number can't go any higher. Um so >> it is 5% on their contract.
>> Okay, great. Thank you, Nile. Um so that franchise fee is typically the primary source of of revenue for the community access television um station. Um and but in addition to that, there's that second
category which is capital costs. those capital costs aren't subject to um that the you know the 5% cap. So contracts will have sort of those two large those two large pots, right?
There's the the percentage of revenue uh from subscribers that you're looking to sort of receive. Um and that can go up to 5% and you're at that 5% mark. Um and then aside from that there are the
capital assets that are provided um to essentially also to to sort of supplement that number. Um so that can be provided that can be allocated in a number of ways. That can be a flat rate
for an amount of money. Um that's typically how it's done. Um so um what's typ what's typically done is through the ascertainment process you all will find uh you know what is needed um beyond if
there's anything needed beyond that 5% rate um or or there's something that's needed that doesn't technically fall within the category of a franchise fee. It falls in under the category of a capital cost. Um, and
you'll ascertain what is needed, what's required, and usually that, you know, that's part of what's negotiated between yourselves and the cable operator. Um, where, you know, you put forward um, how
much money you think is required for all of those. Um, and then, you know, there's a there's a back and forth there. Um so that's not subject to any cap. That number varies significantly based on what the municipal based on the
mun municipalities needs. Um that's a really good number to look at um especially to look at for your contract versus other uh municipalities. Um but it's also important to remember that um you know ultimately at the end of the
day it is a negotiation and you know there's there's a realistic number there um that you know that that needs to be backed up by by you know actual evidence that that money is going to be spent. Um
I should also tag an asterisk to that and say that that money is is specifically earmarked for cable related purposes. So, um, a frequent question that we get is, well, can we, you know, through, um, through a cable license,
can we request that, you know, uh, you know, an extraordinary amount of money be paid by the provider to provide something. Um, and that something is not cable related. Um and uh that's the
answer to that is is is a no un uh fortunately or unfortunately. Um so uh that those capital costs really are are kind of limited to what the municipalities needs are for cable related expenses.
>> So that might be something like like new TVs or cable equipment in in a city facility, that sort of thing. Yes. Yeah. >> What else is what else might fall under that? >> Yeah, that's uh the the the biggest one
is the actual facilities themselves um for u a community access television station. Um so uh if that if you know uh it's it's a bigger issue for um for CATVs that rent their space because
um you know the you know leases can can increase dramatically over time. So in the past you know 10 years the the rent of a space may have dramatically gone up and and there may be there may need to be uh you know more money allocated for that purpose. Um if a you know if a
facil if they own a facility um frequently you know over the course of 10 years there are upgrades that are needed for the facility um whe and you know that and and that is where you know the needs of that particular facility. Um whether that's you know a major
renovation or something as uh you know as quote unquote small as you know the actual equipment that's used um to produce that. Um, all of that can be bundled into that capital cost >> piece. >> So, is that is that capital cost line
really just for the community access station or is that potentially for other municipal purposes and facilities as well? Uh so so long as it's related to the provision of cable um then it could
be yeah it could be discussed for for other institutions as well. Yes. Um there's a really technical area um you know as to you know the actual equipment that is needed to access the um you know
the cable feeds um things like that. So where the you know where the the obligation of the municipality kind of starts and where the obligation you know in providing the service of the cable provider begins that can be kind of
technical in terms of the technology. Um but yeah you know anything anything that's beyond uh beyond that it can be lumped into capital costs. Um there,
you know, some things will be considered part of that. Um there it's referred to as inind contributions. Um and certain equipment depending on, you know, how it's it's categorized and
analyzed can be considered an inind contribution instead of a capital cost. And that would be subject to the 5% cap. So that's where negotiations with Comcast back and forth um to say, can we include this in the
capital area and have that money accounted for? Um uh or is are you going to receive push back from the cable operator and they're going to say, "No, actually that um doesn't count as a capital um asset. That really counts as
an inkind contribution." um it gets very technical and nitty-gritty. Um and and you know there's often a lot of back and forth with that. Um, I can say in my experience, typically as long as the negotiations are going well and there's
a good relationship between whoever is negotiating for the cable operator and yourselves, um, then it's not unusual for um, for other equipment to be considered a capital asset when it would technic when
it could technically be considered an inkind contribution. Um that's also a great time to reach out to us and say um hey we're looking to you know we're we're we there's this particular thing where we want televisions for uh you
know a facility or you know our community access television um facility says they need this piece of equipment. How would that be classified? Um, and we may be able to to, you know,
provide that information. Um, a and if if not, we'd certainly be able to, you know, provide references to the relevant information to um to the mayor's office or to um the city's solicitor or council.
>> Great. That's that's very helpful. >> Any other questions? I'm good, man. I'm good. Thank you. >> Yeah. Uh Kevin and Nile, thank you both so much for uh for coming here tonight. This has been really helpful and um really appreciate the the assistance
that you guys provides. It's great. >> Yeah. Thank you. Absolutely. >> I can help. >> All right. Have a great day, guys. Thanks so much. Talk to you soon. Bye. Bye. >> All right. Uh
So the other item on our new business was to discuss and plan it next steps for the ascertainment contract no process. I don't think we need to get into that tonight. I think um I can spend some time kind of uh synthesizing some of what we heard and thinking about
our next steps and timeline then that'll be a good discussion for for next time. Is that good to you guys? Right. And then we also had to set a recurring date. The time for our next meeting was hold up from that too because make sure we brought other sitting member here in
front. So uh I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. >> I'll make it into a >> All right. All in favor? I great. So we're adjourned at 6:22.
Thank you. Part: 2
All right. I hereby call this meeting to order. Um if you are someone other we are recording this at this parking traffic commission. If anyone else is recording it, please let
us know at this time. Um, okay. So, I Sebastian is here. >> Hi, Michael Mullen here. >> Jean Wald here. >> Great. That's all of us,
right? It's everyone. Um, do we have minutes from January? Sent them out. Show them. Jean, if you have to look at the minutes,
>> aren't they Are they the same ones you sent before? >> Yes, they are. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I move that we accept the minutes from January. >> Great. I second that. All right. All in favor?
Any discussion? You need a copy or or do you have a copy on hand to get them posted? Is there anything or should >> I have them that you just sent me? >> Cool. Okay, we're good. Okay.
The uh I got a little confused. Okay. >> I didn't print out the first page because it was all just in >> That's That's fine. Y um Okay. Um Okay. new business. So, I see that the mayor
here are discussing having the third floor of the parking garage free during winter conditions and make the fourth unusable. >> Do you know anything about anyone know anything about this? >> Yes. Yes, we've I have had discussions
with everyone, Joe, the mayor, Aaron, and we all agree it's a good idea, but when it snows, they do put a barrier up, so you can't use the fourth floor. >> A lot of people just like, "So, where am I going to park?" So, we're just proposing that third floors,
>> right? >> At that time, not sure how we're going to people know. >> Okay. Yeah. And because the parking garage is free during snow emergencies, is this
during snow snow emergencies or just >> No, just while it's covered in snow. They they can't get plows up there to clear it. >> Yeah. >> So it stays covered for, you know, long after the parking ban is up. >> And
and we typically the fourth floor is free. Yes. >> Okay. Fourth floor is always free. How did I not know this? Okay. So, we wanted So, okay. So, there will
be two free two free lots in Greenfield. The third floor of the parking garage or third or fourth depending whatever the most accessible floor of the parking garage is.
and the street lock. >> Okay, I like that. I'm in favor of this. Anyone else want to talk about it? >> I'm in favor of it.
>> I'm last in favor. I mean, I just I tend to think that we should the parking garage tends to get a lot of occupancy and I just tend to think that it should sort of be priced
>> for use. Um, that's just based on me using it. Um, >> I've taken advantage of the free top floor, but um, I also just kind of like going up there. It's nice.
Um, but I do hang out in weird places, so I'm not representative. Um, but um, so that's that's kind of just my inclination is that we're
charging for the lots. Then you know if there's particularly in in demand area then we're trying to sort of get a read on
how much is it used how much you are kind of a willing keep people willing to pay to have spots in certain locations. Um, so, >> um, >> yeah. Do we know the usage rate? Is it
fully? I never I never park it or very rarely parks. >> So, you use it sometimes? >> Yeah. Um, it's probably my default
in town parking lot just because I'd probably stop at a few different places. Um, so during the week, during what I call courthouse hours or something like that, you tend to see a decent amount of cars in there. Um, I've had to go up to the
third floor to find a space in like a 9 to5 window. So, it just >> seems like again, maybe there was something special going on that day, but I think it was just a day during the work week um in the last couple weeks. So that's kind of like my my reads is that
there's demand, people use it. I don't think it was a seasonal exception. And so that's kind of where my inclination goes. I can tell you just as a snapshot like today
well because I just found this report >> okay >> that there was well there was 47 transactions in the parking garage but I guess that doesn't include people that have permits that aren't a transaction
so that's not going to help you but >> okay 47 And >> but it's I can't tell you how many are there >> something more than 47 that have permits are parking there and
that this is just showing the app. >> Okay. Um, I think Genie >> Well, I wonder if we should vote to do it temporarily for a month and have it reported back whether it's bringing more
people into the What is the purpose of it? Is it bringing more people into parking there? I think that a lot of people don't want to park there because they're scared.
And >> this is just during snow events. So when the >> this might not come up for >> Okay. So if it's not going to come up for a bit. >> Well, >> I think I think we should I think we should look at utilization.
If we can get if we can get people someone I think it'd be good to look at it anyway, right? How full is parking garage at any time? If it's, you know, if we're finding that it's um,
you know, four one and two are full regularly even when the top is free or something like that. Perhaps we should, especially if things are going to change or we're going to be getting more
pressure to park there at times. I do think people really appreciate having a free I know it's it doesn't end a lot of money but there's people out there who are very appreciative of having a free place to park
>> and so I I can but if we if the three portal are potentially filling up with paid people,
we should keep it paid. So, >> well, at this point, the snow is over. So, it does I mean, to make a big announcement that the third floor is free when it snows is not the impact
that I'm sure, >> yeah, >> mayor would like to have. >> I think we should look at some utilization and make a decision in the fall. Yeah. >> Um it's probably because it is a small
window. Um in the past when we also wanted to make sure that we're covering the debt service and things like that on the parking garage. No, >> right. >> That's true. >> Just um if we're doing an analysis, I think we would probably want to kind of try to cover all the bases.
>> Yeah. Okay. So, we want to do utilization and and double check the debt service in the garage. How how many years was that bond for? Does anyone know?
>> I don't remember. But, but the parking garage has been there for a long time, hasn't it? >> Around a decade. >> Well, it was under it was under Mayor Martin. got built. >> Thanks.
>> I know some ways this is just yesterday. It's been a long time. >> So, at least seven or eight years it's been there. >> Yeah. And I mean, I know we've used the death service figure in the past, but
for example, I think most of Northampton's parking garage is now closed for long-term maintenance constraints. M >> so the extent to which we kind of think of like how much are we just covering the debt service or is there this sort of like balloon payment somewhere down
the line that we should be prepping for >> I agree with that. Yes. >> So there's just some of the some of the sort of financial considerations I might be worth kind of keeping in mind. >> Good point.
And they get the first hour free anyway, don't they? >> They do. >> Do they? >> Do they? >> I pay for it. The app makes I think that's true. You That used to be true. >> Yeah, there's the 11 to2 free window.
Um, >> and the app does that. >> The app seems to know. >> Can you do first hour free of the app? Question number three. Okay. So, so it seems like we have a few
questions. There's a first hour freeze fill. >> Yeah. I'm just not sure how that works on you. >> Yeah. >> So, at this fisherman's work. I don't know
where the heck I am. >> See, it's a passport that it Yeah. Mhm. Just 4751 18. Yes, if I park from now until 7:18
an hour from now, it is no fee. >> Okay. >> But that should be because you're out out of the window. >> So parking >> like there's no we're not charging for parking and it's Yeah. So it'll it'll let you book the times but like it like it's night. It it doesn't let you make
the mistake of like >> Oh yeah, look at that. >> Overpaying. >> Bummer. I would say with pretty confidence that it charges for the first hour. >> Okay. >> I don't I mean I would assume that it would I guess I didn't know that the
first hour was free or expressed as free but superficially um is that city white. >> Yeah. >> So parking garage came online. There's a whole bunch of different
concessions made >> because we couldn't play with the price. >> Yeah. >> So, we made the first hour free. >> Yep. It is. I went all the way to 8:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. And it's
>> So, I think it automatically does it. >> I'm going to say it does. >> Okay. And 1112 is free. I just didn't pay for some parking tomorrow morning, but whatever. And and does the courthouse advertise
parking is free for the first hour? I mean, do we need signage? I mean, should we suggest signage be installed? um in in the
>> I'm I'm at least partial to if the as far as I know the app is the only way to pay in a parking garage currently >> if the app is correctly doing that for you then do we need to buy signs and put them up? >> No. If it's not like people are
accidentally feeding a meter that they don't think they need to feed or something like that, then I guess like we're not short changing anyone. >> You're right. >> Yeah. So, we have first hour is free, but you
So, I'm looking at the rates that are listed on the website. It's 40 cents per hour. 11 to two is free. Um so it's 8 8 to 5 with 11 to 2 pre
weekends are free for fourth floors. Okay. So okay um so we are on the question of the third floor we
want to wait to make a decision after we've heard about the debt service and the usage rates right Other garage related things were we want to confirm that the first that
the app is functioning with the first hour being free. I will double check in the mic. If it's not working, then and go >> on, Jamie.
>> What about the people who have uh permits? I I guess they're getting a bargain anyway, so we don't have to worry about them, right? >> Yeah. So, they're $35 a month. Yeah. I mean, relative to paying all the
time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Do we want to make a motion to that effect those two conditions? Um, >> do we need to make I don't feel like we need to make a
>> We don't need to make a motion, right? We're just sending it. >> Yeah, we're kind of I'm thinking a little thick on this. >> Yeah. Okay. >> We're kicking the ball down the >> court. Okay.
Item B. Um adding signage at electric parking station saying that parking is only while actively charging. I like this. >> I don't
but it might already >> say that. >> Say that. >> Well, we can confirm that we want it to say that even if it already does say that, right? Yeah, sure. >> Just in case it doesn't
um right to agree that the charging stations only be parked in by an electric vehicle that is actively charging. >> Yeah. >> What are the cost of this?
>> There's a $35 fine. >> Okay. Okay, I second. >> And what's a what's a grace period? Do is it does that have is there a grace period around that? As someone watch your car, it's not always obvious when exactly
it's going to end. >> I'm assuming it's still plugged in that way. It's still going in. But if you're Yeah. >> So yes. >> So do we need to also say
how do we know before we make a motion? I think it's Yeah, because the drug law enforcement officers aren't going to know when they stop stop charging, right? So, there's no way
they're going to be able to tell that. So, I think we just say we have to make this statement. >> I think >> I think if a car is plugged in, they will not >> they will stop charging or not. But, >> okay. a lot of non-electric cars
parking. >> I think putting it I think I think that's a fine thing to them to do. They sometimes because there could be electric cars they're like I'm going to I'm electric car was going to park here
>> and not charge. So I I I think it's a a great sign and I think that that's probably the right enforcement strategy. Right. If it's not plugged in then take it out. Yes. >> Um, that way you don't have to worry
about it, but it will be a reminder to people who do have an electric car that's plugged in that is been full that they should move it so someone else can charge it. >> Okay. Do we want to make a motion to accept
B as written? Yeah, let's do that. Okay. >> Um, motion to accept item B as written. >> Great. >> Or second. >> Any discussion?
All in favor? >> Yes. I see. Um assigned parking spot. Um, so Aaron's suggesting we consider allowing GR
permit holders to opt for an assigned parking spot potentially at a at a higher rate. I am not in favor of this. I I feel like it adds meaningless complexity. I love elegance and simplicity.
Although, yeah, I don't I I guess not. Reene, what do you think? I think that it's I hate going in garages where all the good spots are taken by people that are paying a little bit more. So I'm against it >> and there's like an old
>> So it's also undemocratically, >> right? >> Yeah. Okay. So any more is any more discussion needed? Okay. Um, >> do we want a motion to you not support
the idea? >> I think I think that's great. Yeah. >> Okay. Motion that we do not create assigned parking spots. Okay. For permit holders in the crush.
>> Second. >> Any discussion? All in favor? Uh >> hey mirrors, you're you're probably having mirrors. >> You missed one. You missed the
>> Oh, I missed the Oh, another erand one. Okay. Uh per park at alternative locations at no additional cost if the garage is full. I think that might already be the case
that you can the pre previously when we had permits the garage might be a little bit weirder. So this is a this has threatened I guess what I'm thinking. There was a time period when we had needless complexity around the permits
>> and they were assigned to a lot. >> Mhm. If that lot was full, there was this clause in there that allowed them to park in other lots. Mhm. >> So I am not opposed to this,
but the chances of a of a parking garage being I'm I'm curious a I'm intrigued by whether this is has the parking br >> I saw it very very occupied one.
see what I can find for reports. >> But I mean that seems like a reasonable request to me. >> I mean I'm Yeah, unless we have a lot lots that are particularly highly
I'm more partial to any simpler permitting system. Like if you buy a permit then you get maintenance. Yeah, there was >> want to like that's like a whole another thing. I don't know if we need to open that. >> There was a
originally there's a conflict between the how we could charge for the because of the way the parking garage was funded, we could only do it by monthly, right?
And so I see >> um so we had to keep them separate. So I think one thing one question would be does that violate? I think it might violate if we allowed
other permits to park in the garage, >> but allowing garage permits to park other places might be okay. But then, but then do we have a problem with people saying it was full so they could park somewhere else?
>> Yeah. Right. There is >> it. I I don't understand how any of this would be enforced by the parking people. It seems like an additional burden. >> Yeah. for them when I think we already
have that on the books that it if you can't find a space in the lot where you ordinarily park, you can park somewhere else. >> Yep. Yeah. So, and I think so there's a couple definitions here. What do we mean by alternative locations,
right? >> Are those other lots or is it like street parking? like what's the I mean the way that says it then it could very easily be street parking right >> right >> um so I think we should say it's other
lots other permit other permit locations right like lots >> which I'm I'm feel okay about that >> I am a little I mean I think Jean makes a point there and now it kind of has me
thinking can even like if if we are experiencing a parking garage that's being used a lot, then for me that's a signal of we might want to make marginal rate
increases to say like, okay, we're sort of meeting demand at this price. You kind of raise the price until you get to you find your happy space. >> Yeah. >> Which you don't have to do all at once, but you can that kind of starts that's your price signal kind of telling you like you're
under under supplied and if you want to sort of fix supply, you can adjust the price, >> right? >> Um yeah, maybe another thing, but it's I think it's good. I think that's a good problem to have.
look um that shows that like you kind of have something that's kind of valuable and so you should kind of treat it as such. >> So I I'm finding that these two the third floor being free and this one
I mean at odds with each other. So once again I'm be curious about how often this problem happens. Right. >> Right. And but I do think it, you know, we are
by selling them a permit, we're kind of guaranteeing that they should be able to park, right? Um, and so if they can't park, then we
should have the grace to say, great, you can park in any of the other lots. Mhm. >> I wonder if it's a problem with the people who live downtown not being able to park in their spot. I mean, I wonder if it's a separate
problem from ordinary parking >> and that's why they want to have assigned spots. I think that we don't have enough information Yeah, >> we want to somewhat
since those previous questions that we have of you what's use utilization look like in the parking garage and some of the sort of cost operating the parking garage questions. Is there some is there something here where we want to
kind of kick this down? >> Yeah. Yeah. Or Alternatively, you know, what's the is there a problem with saying park having two levels of permits?
One that's a monthly permit that allows you to park in the parking garage and other lots and one that's a permit that only allows you to park in other lots and not parking bridge. with a yearly
yearly or quarterly. >> Yeah. So like that too that's do we want to look at our permitting arrangement in a comprehensive way and kind of answer it in a comprehensive way. >> And and you all realize that if all this housing is built downtown, it all goes
up in smoke anyway and we'll have to re-evaluate everything. >> Yep. This is just a temporary fix. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> If we were we'd be so lucky
as as that, right? >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Yeah. So I think I think definitely. So I think we should I so point I'm I'm not opposed to that being
you know permitting that to them to park in alternative lots. I think we want to you know other permitted areas if the park run is full. It's I I can't imagine this happening. So
>> yeah, but then for consideration on the other side that then your parking I guess looking at the pricing in a comprehensive way, your parking garage permit becomes a park in any lot permit >> only if parking garage is full. But well sort of what the purpose if I'm
using the garage for seven hour parking it may be full at 9:30 but it's not for many other times. So it's just like >> I think it's like if we get to that problem if we if we're if we're getting reports of people abusing the system. So
I think we should go into this with the with the feeling that people aren't going to abuse it >> to start with. >> No. Yeah. I just think from the >> and then if we're getting reports of people abusing the system then we should be thinking about
>> I guess I'm thinking about it from the if I'm doing parking enforcement >> do I give this vehicle a ticket or not? >> Well, you had a permit in if you're in a parking >> if you're a parking enforcement officer. >> Yeah.
>> And you're going around and you say, "Oh, here's its permit from the garage." Mhm. >> I was just at the garage and it's half empty. >> Mhm. >> I don't believe this. >> Mhm. >> I'm going to give them a ticket. If you're just at or like
or if you're just at the the garage and it's full and you say, "Okay, this makes sense to me." Or, you know, 75% full even. Right. Yeah. I can I it's in the realm of possibility that this is true that
so >> yeah I guess it's just that do they feel comfortable using their discretion in that way or >> I think so I mean what's the worst thing that happens if they put it on their someone comes in and says hey parking garage is full
and the clerk down there says okay I'm waving the $15 whatever it is right Yeah, >> but they may not ever interact. >> It just seems it seems like it's kind of making a muddy situation for someone
later where either they opt to pay it or they're kind of fighting it and saying they're like, "Well, I'm supposed to >> There's also a muddy situation of someone can't park in the parking garage. >> They come here and say, I want a full refund on my permit because I wasn't
able to park." >> Mhm. >> Right. But I don't know if a permit is a guarantee of a parking spot. That's a good question. >> It's just a It's just a form of paying for the park. Like Yeah, I could go and pay for a parking spot right now and then that doesn't mean that it's
convenient. It's convenience. >> Yeah. Unless you opt out of Yeah. >> Okay. Um, I'm in favor of because there's president I'm in favor of h of adding that clause to that. Um, and and I don't
think it's going to I don't suspect it. Yeah. Okay. Maybe we should ask Aaron what prompted this. Well, is it problem or not? I I feel like we don't have enough
information to go forward. >> Okay, Judy, how does that sound? >> Yes, I will ask for more information. >> Great. Do we need There was that question that came up of comprehensive permit conversation. Do we want to kind
of just be kind of fresh up on what our kind of permits allow and how that garage fits in with some of our funding requirements and seeing if there's like a nice way to sort of like smooth all this out and something that just sort of maybe gives people the option to
dissolve the problem entirely. >> Yeah. And I I'm I'm uh yeah, I'm forward looking into whether we want to just make the parking garage permit a permit for all lots >> and then we kind of like Yeah.
>> Then that kind of So the nice thing about the other permit making the permit for all the other lots is like the chances of every single lot being full is very slim. >> Yeah. >> And so okay, you can't park in your favorite lot. You parking one over and you have to
walk a couple blocks. >> Mhm. But you get that convenience. you're you're a user who wants to have this payment approach as opposed to sort of making it up. >> But the chances of you actually finding a spot are very high because you have all the different lots. But the parking
garage is a is a single spot, single place. If that's full, then that could become a problem. So yeah, I'm I'm I feel like on the next agenda, I'd be curious to look into why
we have separate permits again. >> Yeah, >> because there was some legal reason about the way my recollection was about the way the bond was set up, >> right? There was Yes. >> Yeah.
The question is, can we sell monthly permits that include the do the do the permits have to be a separate transaction for the parking garage and other lots or can they be a combined thing? If they can be a
combined thing, great. We do a a monthly permit for it includes the parking garage and all lots. >> Yeah. Like >> what do we have now? only annual and quarterly. >> Yeah.
>> Right. >> I mean, I think there's virtue of like having different time chunks. I think smaller than a month for a permit gets dicey, but there may be people who are looking for certain flexibility and you can just sort of prorrate it out and it gives you some options. um in theory
a permit holder and they are getting a discount but they're also paying for all the time they're not there which is kind of like has some benefits for >> no great things. So, we'll do our homework and we'll try to see if we can get an answer
surrounding the constraints uh bed in our current permitting system particularly about the bond or things like this. Um, do we want to keep going on this or should we move on to mirrors?
Do this is going to be the time share a screen. What is still >> I think you have to do it from the computer. There's a more button there. on the right.
>> I don't know if this is the right way to do it, but too. >> I'm on it on my computer right now. Yeah, >> let me see what happens. >> Let's see what happens. I'm co-hosting the meeting now. >> Okay.
All right. Um I want to open a certain tab. Oh, mirrors. Okay. This is just some pictures. All right. Sebastian had this uh problem with mirrors. You came You pointed this out. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um Oh, no. You didn't have a
problem. The problem is that if you're a pedestrian Okay, here we are. Camera, lights, camera, go. Um if you're walking down the street, this isn't the best image, but it kind
of illustrates the idea. The wall, it's made of bricks. um has no windows or port holes or anything like that. >> Can't see through that. >> Can't see through it. I feel like you could probably knock out a couple of those bricks and make a little hole,
>> but I'm no engineer, so whether or not everything will hold up after that. It is funny because everywhere else in the parking garage, it's, you know, you could see out >> except here, but alas. So if you're walking on the sidewalk on
um Olive uh towards Hope Street um there is this sort of conflict zone. Um so I was at work um and was like wait we have
kind of solutions for these because there's a lot of these like traffic zones. There's a lot of forklift traffic and pallet jack traffic and stuff like that. Um, and there's a lot of offices and space. Um, let's not get into the details, but the idea is that over to the left there's actually a doorway
stepping out into this sort of like traffic area. And we kind of see that there's like some mirrors there. The basic idea is these are like, don't get me right, concave, convex, one of them. The ones that bubble out. Um, and they basically let you see a bit around some
angles. Um, we see that there's this very small one right in a doorway. There's this bigger round one um that's off in the distance for another location and then there's kind of like a So the point is that there's different shapes
maybe an appropriate design here. Um but maybe something like a mirror >> that will at least help. I don't think that there's a completely elegant solution.
It does seem like it was designed with a vehicle exiting light. >> A light and a and a sound. >> Yes. >> Flashing light and a and a gate, >> but it will be connected with the gate. >> Yeah.
>> One and then there's no gate. >> And two, I think there's still a failure thing. I know we have like some of these uh flasher buttons at like a crosswalks and I know I was watching I was trying to use one the other day and it didn't and it's like sometimes they fail and so
like there's just like a little bit of a a low tech solution that's >> I agree. Yeah. >> Fails less likely is like maybe has some virtues. Um, so I don't have a comprehensive solution here, but maybe
something like Oh, what happened? I'm going to struggle so much. Uh, okay. Oh. I can't click on that. Sorry everyone. Um, so one is either on like maybe this wall
and the opposite wall we might be able to get some mirrors mounted in. Second possibility is somehow getting one hanging not on a chain. I don't think you want the mirror swinging around in the wind. Um, and there might be a conflict point
with these um things. Is that a word for them? >> Uh, clangers. >> Yeah. So, again, it was a windy day. Actually, I was leaving the parking garage and like one of the signs in a concrete bucket had completely fallen
over and was like rolling up the parking garage. So just like hitting a mirror and having the glass break everywhere is less than ideal. So we'd like to avoid that. Um but maybe if we also took like the yield
for pedestrians thing that hub also maybe with like a concrete base might be a reasonable spot to kind of have like a dome solution. I feel like the hardest one to get people to understand would be actually going across the street.
>> Yeah. >> But like I think that's like I don't I wouldn't expect people to get it. But >> here's my concern in in your factory situation. >> Yeah. >> You're dealing with people who are navigating that often, right?
>> Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> And I was like, "Oh, there there could be a forklift. I'm just going to check this mirror real quick kind of thing. >> Yeah. >> Right. Versus this this is probably going to be people >> people walk out in traffic all the time.
>> New people etc. My solution in the past that I had looked at was a a really a simple gate >> um kind of situation.
If you just extend that slightly, >> limit some of that. >> You you >> Yeah. >> Because I mean the worst possibility is if you're walking right along if if you two people are walking down the sidewalk, right? >> And you're stepping out right into this. >> Yeah.
>> At least if there was that extra four feet, >> right? There's people coming out, they're going to stop before they go onto the road, right? >> I guess they'll probably be looking >> and not right. I suppose that's might be the problem.
>> Mhm. >> Right. >> Your bias is going to be to look you're you're worried about getting hit. No. >> Yeah. You're driving out. >> Yeah. If you're pulling out, you're going to And right because the
Yep. I think you'd be looking left primarily if you're going to be turning right. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> Yes. >> And and the possessions are coming from the right. >> Mhm. So it gives having that gate there gives
a little more time a little more space ensures the space where the pedestrian is a little further out. >> Yes. Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So that seems like a >> it almost it can give a pedestrian on that type side a little reason to slow down.
>> Yeah. >> Most vehicles also are giving some type of auditory cue just because of the sound they make. >> Yeah. Um, and I think if we wanted to be extra conservative, like be distant mirror on the opposite, not it won't
really be valuable on this wall, >> but it does give the walker a >> like they'll kind of they might have a chance to see a little motion. >> Yeah. >> That kind of gets you to go, "What? What was that?" >> Here, your your your view is actually
pretty >> if you're if you're here and you're looking this way. >> Yes. your views that you have to see pretty far into it. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> But if you're moving in a car, you're moving this way. >> The hood of your car by the time you're
the person's head gets to the point where they can see around that corner. >> Yeah. >> So, I feel like the pedestrians actually have a relatively good view. It's the people coming out in that car that are problematic. So, we
need the people in their car to be able to see the pedestrians more than the pedestrians to be able to see the car. >> Mhm. >> Right. If they're if they're out an additional 4T, that's definitely true. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yes.
>> So, I'm wondering about thinking about where that mirror is relative to the car coming out. Does that make sense? >> Well, yeah. I don't think the only way it would do I don't think the mirrors really aren't good option for the driver
outside of a very a tentative driver at that point. They're probably creeping out so slow it doesn't it's kind of regard like >> they're they're at best going to give the person walking sooner reason to like kind of anticipate
that something's coming. And then the other thing I think the other kind of solution I was thinking about was if we paint that >> Yes. >> as a crosswalk. >> Yes. >> Right. So people feel like they need a stop. >> Yeah. >> Right. Before that
>> it could create this. >> Yeah. >> Right. And what's where's what direction is that stop sign facing? >> Oh, good question. >> Did you take from the inside? >> Um, no. Not walking out of the garage. Looks like it's pointing down the
sidewalk from that angle. >> You're right. So, either like got turned around. >> Yeah. No, there might be. >> Yeah. I like
in terms of trying something, I like the gay gate and taint approach. I think that's like the um it does it could just be a saworse that DBW puts out there, right? Too.
>> Yeah, like that for to start with and yeah, that's like an easy I mean, right, so far we haven't like we don't have data on like our near misses, so we don't know. Um but in theory, we want
this to never be a thing. Um, and so it's >> and people really should be stopping. So it it the speed really should be pretty low at that point, right? Yeah. Because you're going to be stopping
>> basically people are going to want to Well, I guess if they're like coming out, they can see up and they're turning right and they can see up pretty fast. They might actually be like, "Oh, so I'm accelerating now to get around into the road." >> Mhm. Right. Ignoring the
>> maybe there's another I mean that's if we need to add in more elements like then you could actually say well can I actually make it harder to see >> as a vehicle leaving so that again you feel >> you don't want to get hit. So it's going
to make someone feel like it's going to get them to do the thing that we want which is to just go really slow and carefully. Um, yeah. So, would we want to make the Oh, is G not able to talk?
>> I just wanted to say if you move if you put another orange barrier on the sidewalk >> by the wall >> so that a pedestrian has to stop and walk around it. Wouldn't they look to see
the pedestrian wood. Yep. >> And if it was a crosswalk, they als if it was painted, they would also look You're totally right. Be that >> I mean to me that would be the cheapest thing to try first. >> Yep.
And if you paint the crosswalk down on that lower part of the driveway instead of on the sidewalk. >> Uhhuh. How concrete do we want to propose something if this is sort of
straightforward and simple enough or yeah what what's the process here we would how how would this work go to the DPW right we'd say hey we want a second so
who's we would emit A we make a recommendation to the mayor. >> Mhm. >> So the mayor, someone in the mayor's office goes to DBW and
would say cone or a saw. You know those barricades they have that are like the wood on that that corner. And then also paints the summer adds paint. >> Yeah.
>> And and maybe you would put one of those orange things on each end of the garage and then paint that section where the street light is. >> Yeah. >> As the crosswalk. >> Yeah. And you know, I mean, we had a
fence there just now, but maybe there's also prettier options like planter boxes or something that >> I think if we start with the saw horse pain getting the stop sign facing the right direction,
>> is it? >> Yeah, because I assume that's not does not stop. It should be no entry, but so the stop sign I think is pointing the wrong direction, correct? >> Yeah. Um but there there might be some those might be some quick improvements and
if we need an escalation from that or how they evolve we can so is that is our recommendation is to start with what do we call those again horse. >> Yeah. What are they called? >> Saw horse. >> Saw horse. >> Yeah. Right. The DPW has those like saw
horses with the orange like painted. Yep. Mhm. >> They might be too long for that. I don't know if they have shorter ones. >> Yeah, >> they do. Or they have a short orange
stamps or whatever that they can. >> Sure. They have something >> just so the pedestrian has to stop and go around it. >> Make them clue into looking. Are you proposing putting that in the sidewalk then you are not going to want to step
off? >> Yeah, Jean I don't know. >> Yeah, it doesn't get you off the sidewalk. It just is a it's a um >> sure exactly where you're thinking of putting it. >> It's a neck down of a sidewalk. It
creates a little a little spot there where if you were walking I mean I think honestly you could probably still walk two by two but if you it was more than two people. Oh, okay.
>> DPW may come up with a totally different >> right >> solution. But, you know, something fairly simple. You >> just you tap out a few of those bricks. Just tap them right out. It's like Jenga.
>> Let's not play Jenga. >> Hey. Okay. So, I just uh an email with the the like mockup I had done previously with the paint the paint and gate which
gate fence which would be the where the sawers would go. Um so Jean I don't know if you want to look at that because you couldn't see I I showed it to them here but I don't think you could see it. >> It's okay. I mean I trust what you think
of. >> Okay. >> But you also um shared it believe then Judy you can pass that along to our group. >> I sent to you too. >> Mhm.
It's this the sec the first one doesn't have paint. The second one does. >> Does that make sense? >> There it looked like it was over. >> Yeah. I mean, All right. And we recommend
that we talk to DPW to try a temporary installation of short saw horses or another comparable option to elongate the angle whereby pedestrians walking towards Hope Street are currently blind
to exiting vehicles from the garage. Paint the sidewalk with crosswalk markings and review stop signage exiting the garage to ensure it's correctly oriented. Okay. Uh motion to that. Uh I I could I second
as a chair. >> I'll second I'll second it. >> Okay. Any discussion? All in favor? >> I vote yes. >> Vote yes. I I vote yes. And there's there's the second one.
Sorry, I I realized I sent the wrong one. There's one with paint on it. >> Uhhuh. Is that also in there? >> Yeah. The next time >> I'll attach it to the minute. >> Yeah, there should be one coming. >> It's coming >> in theory. Okay.
>> If not, I'll probably Okay. Um, what else have we got? >> No. Uh, right. Uh, unhoused community looking They're looking uh is looking to decriminalize ordinances. They're looking for overnight parking in city
lot. >> Yes. So, I think there are some lots where overnight parking is allowed, right? I thought it was I thought it was allowed in the lot behind Wilson's. >> Yeah,
>> that was my understanding. And it wasn't allowed anywhere else. Right. >> Right. But I think there was a certain section of the Wilson's lot where overnight parking was allowed. >> Oh, and we got rid of that section skate park. >> No, I think they still had it.
>> Okay. But I don't, you know, I don't know what they're looking for here. >> Leave the actual codes. >> Yeah, I think I had them. Are they on the agenda? >> It's okay if they didn't make it there.
Um, let me >> Oh, you're What do you I'm sorry. I wasn't No, are you looking for the ordinances? Yeah, I think there's two ordinances and Oh, okay. Yeah. Uh, how do you say that? Is that
chapter or section? Uh, the SCES marks um 4085 and 55512. They both kind of have duplicative language, but no parking is allowed between hours
of 1:00 a.m. and 6. um winter. Okay. And that does actually mention designated areas, but what are the designated areas? >> And so I think we I think that could be
changed at this point. >> Mhm. >> Um because we now have some emergencies and and there might be a no emergency. There might be more ordinances that have specific mentions on what's going on
during snow emergencies. >> Yeah. Well, there used to in the past there was wasn't any. This was also true. The same was true for on street parking field. It couldn't be between December 1st and April.
So, uh I see that was also true on street. Yeah. Well, I believe their thought is to is kind of eliminate any code mention of an overnight parking
ban except maybe some bigger plan something within the snow emergencies. I believe they're said that when they look at some either recommendations or best practices that they see for other areas, they recommend
eliminating the requirement or the prohibition. >> Okay. So, but that's in the how often does that change happen to ordinances that every 10 years? Jean, do you know when how often the ordinances
you updated? >> I think it's every 10 years. I know we just finished one finished it in Roxand's last year. >> Yeah. And and are they looking for people to be able to sleep in their cars? Is this
what the reason is for the unhoused community? >> I Yeah, I would expect so. >> I mean, if somebody's sleeping in their car, they do need a safe place to do that.
>> Yeah. So yeah. So I guess um we can I think we can recommend that that removed. I I think the reality is is that they
it could be a long time before the ordinances are changed, >> right? >> Which does seem Does anyone know how that works? If this is a if that's a Is that just a a function? Is that is that a rule that
that's how it has to be? >> Yeah. >> Or >> I don't know >> cuz I read the town back to back. >> It seems like ordinance should ordinances like that should be able to be changed >> more than every 10 years. >> More than every 10 years, right?
>> I totally agree. >> Okay. So I know we were proposing adding one. >> I think yeah other you know reason they could be added. >> My inclination would be to yeah I would think that that's like a
talk to the chairperson of the city council and kind of see what they think of the subcommittee that's appropriate. But >> the question was does parking and traffic commission have any thoughts on the matter? So here here's here's
there is some other utility to not having people park in in overnight and internal lots lots one if any work has to happen in that lot then they can coordin it off
before you know during that time right? Which then allows them to um do things there. If there's a vehicle that
um has been left there or abandoned, it's very obvious, right? Um, so versus, you know, like there could be and I don't know if we have anything
about like the amount of that if there's a limit that someone can park. Um, I guess they're being they're paying for it. Um, well, if if people are sleeping in their
car, wouldn't the police like for them to all be in one? I mean, I don't know how it's a a matter. How does the police How did the police handle it? >> Uhhuh.
I know. Is it legal to sleep in your car? >> I don't know. I mean, again, this is one where we don't have enough information on why they're doing it, right? >> Maybe they can look at it from the other
way. Are there other sort of consequent like maybe unrelated to a person sleeping in their car, but kind of like Sebastian mentioned the consideration of like an abandoned is what are some other reasons that
it might be beneficial to not well I guess like what else might we expect to see if this were permissible? Well, to me the the problem was that there are people in apartments that don't have parking places.
And so the lot behind Wilson's was used as a place that they could put their cars and walk back to their apartment and and uh you know pay. I don't know if
you paid. I don't know how that worked. I mean now works for that. The app should work do that for you, >> right? And I do know that we talked about this at one time because up by Mesaver Verie there were people that didn't have a parking place.
>> Yeah. Right. >> And so they par we we said they could park in the lot behind Wilson's overnight. >> Yeah. And so, you know, is if that's what the problem
is, we've already covered that. >> So, yeah. And we we could get around this thing by designating more areas, >> right? >> And and if they're building those
apartments behind the uh Greenfield co-op, they aren't going to have parking places either. And that's going to be a place that they will have to that we will have to let them park there. Remember how they came to us and asked
>> Yeah. >> how that would be handled. I mean, this is not just a simple problem. >> Yeah. I'm in favor of I'm not It makes sense to me that people should be Why should people be able park
overnight? If someone goes to a bar, gets drunk, >> right? We'd rather they >> being like, "Hey, I should drive home because I can't park here every night, right?" Like, >> but >> I mean, there there are lots of >> might be good for others. Yeah.
>> I don't know how hard this is enforced. I don't know how many tickets or summits have been written for it, but I still think in principle like um I mean, I'll say if the parking lot's really busy overnight, then we should start charging for parking. But I don't
think they're that I don't think they're that busy. But like if if we have this resource and it is charged during certain times then if someone is using it during that time when it's not being charged for >> I guess like I guess at a general level
I'm like >> yeah it's kind of open open season. So >> so um I think I'm not opposed to this. I think we can essentially do it without
changing the ordinance if we designate more places, more lots as um overnight parking, right? >> I guess this would eliminate like any municipal lot would allow for overnight parking.
>> Yeah. So if we make that designation then that does it, right? Mhm. >> Um >> or inversely actually it just the line the the language is eliminated. There is there is no designation. It's just a
>> well I think this is this is in the bylaws right? >> Yeah I believe so >> or the yeah whatever it is >> as official as ecode.com. So I think this is going to be hard to get changed. >> Mhm.
Right. So, but we can kind of get around it by just designate everywhere. >> Ah, I see what you're saying. Like if you want to uh Yeah. >> Like we can recommend that this has changed perhaps. Okay. My other so the
question is should we hear from other you know this is from the unhouse community which which I appreciate this right because it could be something that's one of those laws that is not enforced unless it's a homeless person who's
staying there >> right >> right so you can see that happening right where like George always parks his car there cuz he lives around the corner and no one cares but open a homeless person who's sleeping in their car. Okay. We're
using with law to >> Right. >> Right. So, um, so I'm wondering if we should get other input from before making this call whether we should get input from the
police. Judy, would you be all right sending something I don't know who were the chiefs that you would send to and see whether they have an opinion on this and and we also should uh start putting into
our mindset what are we going to do about the parking lot behind uh the Greenfield co-op. >> Yeah. >> Because that is going to be a looming problem. the one behind the current co-op or about its new location?
>> Current co-op where they're going to move to Wilson's >> and there's going to be housing built next door to them and they don't have affordable housing and they don't have parking.
Um, so and then DPW, does DPW have a opinion on on the overnight parking in the lots, whether there's things that they need to be able
to do and that facilitates that, right? >> Yeah. I think it's other person other group we should talk to. And this would by doing this this would facilitate what you're talking about Jean
and with the housing of other co-op in other places. Great. >> Right. >> I mean there going to be a lot of cars coming downtown if all this housing gets built. >> Yeah. The parking lot behind the courthouse, is that going to have
parking if people live there? >> Right. >> I mean, it's going to be a looming problem. We're going to be valuable members of the community someday. >> Yeah. And we already are.
>> Okay. So, do you want to read that to us? >> Uh, I have anything to read. >> What are GPD's thoughts? Um, >> and does DPW have any needs for the blank prohibition like this? Um,
>> so otherwise, >> we'll get more information and >> yeah, >> great. >> Get more information from them to see if there's anything else on that side, >> right? And if we get an answer, we could kind
of set this for agenda for the next meeting. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I know it's getting kind of late here, right? >> Yeah. Do we >> So, do you need a motion to adjourn? >> Well, I'm curious about if there's
anything else here that's really um >> There was this square bus question. >> The next two items we can talk about very quickly. >> Okay. Do you want to tell us about him, Jeff? >> Um, well, I got an email from the
transit authority. I asked them to to come, but um she just said she'd like to ask if we'd be okay with buses holding on Court Square. This will allow buses to leave the station, so it cuts down on traffic and potential
backup in the station. Um, I guess they have added more routes. >> Okay. So, they don't have enough space maybe in the station. She's >> Well, the the thing is >> here's the email she sent and it said I
made little notes. Two or three buses. I No. >> Well, the thing that's crazy is you cannot park in that parking lot to go to meetings in town. I know.
>> So why did why can't they just put the buses in the parking lot? >> Holding on Court Square. We're talking about by the transportation center, right? >> Correct. >> Okay. And and I go to meetings in that
building and you're not allowed to park in the parking lot. Your car will be towed, >> right? Yeah. >> So, >> you have to park across the street in the parking garage. >> Yeah. So, I don't understand what her
problem is with buses there. Oh, well, I think that's not even the I think they they like like turn around like >> the buses and then they can go down the where the parking is to get up. >> Yeah. But even so, I think they must not
have enough space in there at certain times. >> Yeah. So, what is >> there's an extra boo that gets crowded in there. I don't want I don't quite understand what holding on Port Square means. >> So they
>> right >> you want to just buses fail to park there hold till the other ones have left the trans station just idle there for a few minutes until there's space >> as square is plenty wide
>> for people to get around. >> In my head I feel like a bus could hang out there for a few minutes. >> Yeah. There's another part of me that I'm like, I mean, I I guess I I haven't seen it. I don't know. And it could be busy, but I there I think there's a long
term, too, where I don't know how long-term this might be. I mean, we had closed Court Square in the past for like events and stuff like >> if they were like if they were like counting on it and I don't know, but if they're having a temporary problem and
they're trying to sort it out, >> the farmers market on Saturdays, I don't know if they talk about Saturdays or >> Yeah. I mean, that anyway, >> they're probably limited. I mean, >> so I I think what I would say was if
So this is a question of whether or not so what would happen if they stopped there the police would come and say hey you can't stop here we're giving you a ticket
>> right like what what happens or >> so would they just like a slightly more mutual understanding But we know they're doing it and they know. >> How about as a trial run? What What if we said as a trial run?
We're open open to them doing that >> for three months. >> But they've been asking for this for months and months and months and they won't come and tell us why. So >> Oh, no. That was a different thing. >> That was a different thing. Okay. >> That was a sign, >> right? And they still haven't come. I
invite them every time they ask for something like we need more information. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, I'm more I'm more open to this than >> I mean, >> I don't I don't see what difference it makes if they park where I mean I don't
I just can't see what the problem is. >> Yeah. So, I I don't I feel like we should allow it as a I don't think there's any huge safety issues >> that I I'm picturing. Seems like they could do it safely.
The question is would it be annoying? Would it block traffic? Would it cause any problems which we don't know? So I suggest we try it. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> And then if there are difficulties >> if there's difficult we do we recommend
to the mayor that they allow this for a trial period. Um and we will revisit this in >> three months and if there and if we have heard of any
issues and we will have the discussion that how does that sound? >> Yes. Okay. Um, >> that's the email from the mayor about the trucks signed that road is I drove down the other day.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Do we want to motion that too? We recommend that the mayor allow that ver use court um as a holding area for a trial period. We'll let them know if issues arise from such use.
Yes. Okay. So, that's a proposal. Jean, you have a second? >> I do. Second. >> Okay. Um, >> yes. >> All in favor. >> All in favor? Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. We're
all Yes. Great. Um, okay. Sheldon Road. >> That's the road that goes up behind Big Y. >> Behind Big Y. Okay. >> I can't imagine. Well, isn't that the road? >> They do. They do go up
>> They do go up in and out >> the back of >> the back of Big W. >> It's really farther up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, like part of that is like single lane up there. It's up too where it's like >> half a lane. >> Half a lane. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's all it's all hair penny. It's not
>> it's a failed cover c covert I think because they came before capital improvements and wanted to put in a covert and there's no money to do it. >> Okay. >> And this has been going on since I've been on planning and construction. So >> okay
>> I suspect the road is not safe for trucks >> and there are other ways to get >> that's not a good way to get anywhere. >> No. If you want to go the show, you go the trail. Yeah, >> unless you're going to res up there.
>> If a truck didn't realize, it might be a pain in the butt when they realize that they're in a bad situation because there's the interstate over or two one of those roads that you pass. >> Yeah, >> it does go over the interstate.
>> Yeah, one of them I can't remember. Yeah, and at some point you're riding up the hill and then you might go Oh. And that might be difficult. I don't know if the overpass itself is a sufficient over factor because it's not even big enough
for a truck to get through. So if they've already started themselves, then >> yeah, >> I'm not sure why they requested it cuz I can't see trucks wanting to go up in anyways. But I guess an issue. >> Yeah, I guess I'd be curious if there if
like has someone has there actually been a hangup. It's not a I don't know sign. >> I'm not I'm not opposed to there being a no truck sign. I don't know how that works.
>> Um there would be after big Y, right? >> Mhm. >> On the green field side because we're not asking. >> Yeah. Yeah. But once you get to Shelurn on that road, it's beautiful.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, do do we want to say past >> there's a past Homestead Avenue? >> Yes. That where it goes to observe the college,
>> I think. Yeah. Like I think if I understand correctly, that would probably >> Yeah. >> things up. Although maybe the church might sometimes want to have a truck in. So I think that's where the
>> No. So no trucks pass. I'm just trying to figure out where this where to put the sign. Yeah. >> Where people can turn around. >> Mhm. >> Maybe maybe after the turn, but I don't know. It's a good point. I I am curious if the if the two overpass if that I
wonder if there's even enough room for a truck to get through it. >> Yeah. Like there might be signage at that that has a height restriction and at which case this just goes redundant. >> It's the bridge goes over. So it is not
covered anyway. >> But when you're driving in that road you go under it, right? >> Under too. >> Why can't you? >> Yeah. >> I think you go over it. >> No, you go under. You definitely go under it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. This is like Mike's favorite
motorcycle route. Like, >> okay. All right. I have my friend has sugar house up there and I was just up there the other day. >> Yeah. You go underneath route two. So, you go past Big Y, pasta's witness, and then under two.
Do we want to punt it and see? That's like my own. I don't see why I would. >> It becomes old Greenfield Road after that. >> After that, yeah, that's I think at that point you're in the other town, right? Or maybe not. Maybe it's you're not quite at the I don't know where T is.
>> So I mean Shelvin Road is really short. >> Okay. >> I mean we if the request is that they don't want any trucks going up the back of Shelon Road at all, then like >> Oh, that's a different story. >> That's a different story. So there is a little bit where I'm I guess now I'm projecting and I don't want to
>> Okay. But so >> lack of information we how how I mean how far does it uh apply to
>> Mhm. >> Yeah. when you get up. >> It seems like Shelurn Road goes from, you know, goes from 91 between 91 route 2 and after that it is no longer Shel Road.
It's old Greenfield Road, >> right? >> It turned into Old Greenfield Road, which is way up farther. True. Okay, that's possible according to Google Maps. Yep. Google Maps.
But >> right. >> Yeah. So, >> it's way up here where it turns into >> Yeah. I I think if that underpass prohibits cars and that's the issue then or prohibits trucks in virtue of its design and signage
there, then I don't know if it's a need anymore. If we're looking for something else, >> go around that curve and there's that. If you're looking at the Google maps, right where all the trees and everything ends and it opens up, that's where it turns into
near Stoddard Road. >> Okay. >> It could coast all the way down the road if I did it right. >> I don't see a sign here. Yeah, I see a sign there, >> right? >> But
>> again, I don't think that we have enough information >> to make a decision tonight. >> Yeah. Uh but it doesn't seem like we should prohibit trucks from going behind big Y. >> Right. >> Yeah. There's also the the whole other
building next to what's used a lot now for power line folks. >> Oh, I think >> that lineman or something have like a lot of >> whatever. Does anyone I've always been curious the one between BJs and >> Yeah.
>> What's the story on that one? >> Judy, do you know what that building was? >> It used to be Eversource. >> Oh, it was an Eversource. That was okay. That makes sense. >> Yeah. >> All right. So,
>> it makes sense in the line. >> Yeah. >> Still hanging out there only. >> Okay. So, I think we need more specifics around this, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Would you like me to ask where exactly they want the sign? where >> where they want to sign in what they
wanted to do. >> Yeah. And why? >> Why? >> Yes. Doesn't make so our conflict is we it doesn't make sense to put trucks on all of Sheldon
Road. So what portion of Shel Road are they us going to try to meet again on April 28th? Look at your calendar. 28
round do that. Um, and I think we could pro Judy a strategy could be that we could just post the agenda right away
or the meeting. right away as in >> like tomorrow as soon as we have it as soon as we have one right >> the problem with that if I post it things will come in >> right >> in the meantime >> and then we can >> so that's why I wait till the last minute >> which I think is great if there's if
there's an agenda posted though >> we can still have the meeting >> with those items if we forget to update it we can update it >> right >> anytime right >> yeah I see put or a skeleton agenda. >> Yeah. So, we put in a skeleton agenda.
If we miss the deadline, at least we can still have a meeting with the skeleton agenda, right? Does that make sense? And then anytime something comes your way, you can add it and and update it on the on the website because a draft agenda. If we put
something on there and you put it on there and then, you know, maybe you just send us an email every time you update it. >> And then if something is on there that we don't want to talk about, we can say take it off. >> Or if we forget there's something here
that we go, oh wait, I thought we were supposed to pick that up again. >> Then we might go, >> but maybe we don't want to be here in any. >> How does that sound like a strategy? >> I can do that.
All right, I'll send out a copy of the minutes um after a little cleanup tonight, but everyone will get them and that can be on the agenda. >> Wow. Thank you. >> Well, um motion to adjourn.
>> So move. All right. All in favor? >> I >> Yes. >> I. >> Thanks, Jean. >> Yep. See you next month. >> See you. >> See you. What's >> today? >> 24.