--------- all right so if anybody is um we are recording this meeting if anyone else is recording this meeting please let us know at this time i Sebastian Gwyn here gene Wall is here
jim you want to go i'm here yep say your name oh Jim Gisman is here thank you um do we have any public comments all right no public
comment um uh minutes do we have minutes from February yes all right i move they be approved okay i Jim you want to second that yes I do all right
uh all in favor yes good all right discuss current winter parking regulations and if they should be amended right yes this got brought up in the public comment at the last meeting yes was placed on this meeting's agenda
right uh remind me what was said last time uh there was some concern expressed about um some of the streets I think in the church street area where it's not during the storm itself the concern was after the storm when there's heavy snow banks
that kind of bleed into the street and then having cars on both sides of the road and then that creates a very narrow travel lane for people to get by as in one car at a time yeah um so and then the kind of proposed
solution was maybe doing odd and even sides right yeah okay um and in the past that was the case right it was the
case um and I wasn't working for the city when it happened but um it was pretty purposeful to switch it over there was a lot of confusion from residents um especially because at one point it wasn't odd and even there was also north
and south and east and west um so I think switching back would again cause a lot of confusion um I think the the DPW if there is a road where it gets so narrow that cars are barely able to get by they they people should contact the
the DPW dispatch and they can go out and make it so the road is less narrow um okay that those are my two cents so so rather than rather than having everybody on all streets have to park on one side
we can say Call the DPW yeah captain clear the snow or put the sign they said no parking yeah do they have enough staff to do that though i think if it was actually like truly like preventing people from getting by in their cars entirely
absolutely they definitely would have enough staff I think to to make roads less narrow than people would like that'd be a different story but So w with respect to the parking regulations uh are there any changes are
we suggesting any the idea that was suggested from the public at the last meeting was to to switch it to something where you can only park on one side of the street um during the winter and not even just during a band during the entire winter whereas the current regulations just
make it so that if there's a declared snow emergency that's on the radio it's on the city's social media you just can't park on the street at all during that time and once that's lifted once the snow is presumably clear by the DPW um you're allowed to park um anywhere just as you would in the summer
okay well if there's parking on one side how how does that uh relate to um the snow plowing because you'll be able to snowplow one side but that's about it huh no there the the streets can be snowplowed if there's a winter emergency
nobody can park on the street so that's not a problem it's the accumulation of snow okay yeah and is any It's not like So if we get one inch of snow that's not an
emergency yeah unless it's declared otherwise you're w you can keep parking it's basically if they're sending the plows out um is when it's an emergency so in in case of a snow emergency there's still no parking so no change right
and then um what was the other situation where you can park on one side so currently there's nothing in relation to that it used to be that way right now it's as long once the the ban is over you you can park wherever you'd like just like normal parking rules um the
the suggestion from the the public was to go back to the old way of only being able to park on one side during the winter but um it's pretty confusing for people and apparently it hasn't been too necessary because this is the first I've heard of this um since being parking
coordinator so I guess I I guess the question is what what are the are there criteria for road width right well to me it's it's not the road width it's there's too much snow last winter right before that we didn't have a
problem i mean until back in the day when we did yeah so maybe we go through another winter and if it is a problem then we make a a declaration of odd and even
should we put something on the snow emergency winter parking ban and whether the emergency parking you know if your p your street narrow you call DPW or something like that yeah we can make that um I can
talk with the the DPW director and the mayor's office about that just make that part of the regular communications because there already is the regular communication about the parking ban during snow emergencies and there's like a whole list of things all the details if that if that's the DPW director agrees with it that could totally be
added to the list for sure and is there like um let's imagine that there's parking on Hope Street right um by the courthouse and there's snow there and so
that means people are parking further out is there a point in which you get a ticket i have to double check the the code but I mean there are rules about how far you can park away from the curb i believe you can't see the curb
i'm not sure how that would play out well then I think it might be better to go back to the odd and even yeah or in that case you could you just bag the foot bags over the things parking over
the on the meter heads right except meters aren't everywhere to me the odd even worked when we had that the north and south was confusing yeah north and south would confuse me
yeah it was north and south but it was something else i mean I don't remember but I even I can handle But I also feel like that means that the vast majority of time we're underutilizing our on street parking
right right for for this fairly rare event and so I would just suggest that we put in the regulations to call the DPW if you you know the streets too narrow yeah and if
it happens again next year then we go to odd and even yeah and DBW will come out and evaluate it and say "Actually this doesn't seem that narrow." And it slows down traffic is Yeah i can also
um check in with Lindsay who's the the DPW um coordinator and does runs a dispatch for them and see how many calls they actually kind of got about this issue this past year and give us some some data right um and then same thing for next year see I mean this is this
was such an odd occurrence i don't think we should plan around this year just say so but the snow emergency is just no parking but if it turns out uh the street is narrow too narrow because of
piled up snow you call the DPW and um and that's that's about it and then we may may do odd even one side parking uh after this uh season is that right and and because the BP has a couple
options right a they can clear it b they could put up some signs you know some whatever expansions or whatever to say no parking right i mean I think I I think we go with it's going to
continue with climate change and global warming you know less snow but you never know right so there'll be snow plowing in short sleeve shirts with the plows up and there might
be some some months that are really really bad in snow yeah I'll check in with the DPW director and the the DPW coordinator and see if we can get some stats and get that messaging tweaked to include that if
it's acceptable to him okay thank you um all right so next order of business uh to discuss creation of park and benefit district i do have Amy here okay hi Amy would you like to um I read about it in the paper and I thought I should throw it on here
because sure join us of course we're not formal life you never know i know that too um so I've been involved with counselor Healey and with Hannah Rex Shopen in the
conversation around this and I'm happy to share whatever you I can give you an overview of where we're at and it is um Okay great uh so parking benefit district is a geographically defined area within which the revenue from the
parking um if a parking benefit district was created all or a portion of the revenue from the parking would be captured and then put back into that district towards a potential range of things from parking enforcement to
meters and kiosks to um improvements to the physical space to um things in the public way like streetscape improvements lighting flowers public art that sort of thing
um the revenue that can be captured is um meter revenue kiosk revenue but not parking tickets and not um I believe uh permits permits god that word
escapes me um so it's only a portion of the revenue um so councelor Healey brought this idea to city c or to um the uh economic development committee of city council to talk about and where
we've landed um after conversation with him with Hannah and with the mayor is um that the mayor has okayed a a seed fund to start that um I think the current proposal is $50,000 which comes out of
parking revenue that is currently um set aside with the idea being that this fund would not take over um parking enforcement it wouldn't take over sort of the big things but it would be aimed at more streetscapes and streetscape
improvements um cleanup that sort of thing um the way that we are anticipating that this fund would be handled it can be administered by either a city related entity or part of the
city so the fund as currently conceived would go through my department community and economic development um in terms of project approval we would uh have projects approved jointly by my department the DPW and the GBA
Greenfield Business Association um because those three entities are most immediately involved my department um is connected to this committee is connected to the mayor's office um DPW obviously is going to bear um installation and maintenance responsibility for a lot of
these things um and GBA deals with the business association who we are hoping will be enthusiastic about this and that these um improvements will support um our thought is that we would each year create a prioritized list of projects
bring that list of projects to you share it with you to get your input and your um comment and then as we go through the year work off of that list of projects knowing that things could come up so it's not we're not bound by it but at
least to to give us a chance at the start of every year to collect input um both from the public and from stakeholders like this group um whatever who sets a priority um so we would a group com consisting of um my
department the DPW and the Greenfield Business Association would um solicit input from stakeholders from the public from businesses um and take all of that input and use it to generate a list of priorities
um we would bring that list to all of you to go through to let you weigh in and make sure that um we don't want to be off doing something over here if you all are trying to do something over here and we're working across purposes um
I think that's a fabulous idea so that's our plan the only other um piece of information like I'm just going through my uh draft plan here um we're also not planning on two things not planning on using this for regranting so this isn't
a scenario where we would have people come and do a grant application process it's um designed to be a little more nimble than that and more responsive to the needs of the folks um in this area and it's not aimed at events so it's
more physical infrastructure or um beautifification but not events that happen within the area uh and the geographic area is still a little bit to be determined but roughly the central commercial district um we may narrow it
a little bit more tightly on Main Street and the couple of blocks that are off of that but that's the area where all of the parking is anyway um that we would be collecting the revenue from and who would do the work like cleaning the
streets so it that's why we have these three groups because it would fall on um frankly one of the three of us my department the business association or the DPW um or it could be some collaborative effort and I think that would just be project by project so my
department has done a lot of public art as has the GPA and we would love to do more of that um if a project is something like um I don't know a special cleaning or something that would have to be the DPW which is why we've given them
um you know the right to sign off on all the projects too because I don't want to sign them up for something that they just don't have the staff or the resources to do so I project by project well the biggest complaint I hear about downtown is how dirty it is well don't
get ahead of our first desired projects i think um cleanliness of downtown is absolutely Yeah but but could we like pay uh people that are downtown all the time hanging out to pick up the trash i
mean I think we could look at ways of doing a project that would improve trash downtown i think the notion of paying people raises a whole host of legal questions that I am not equipped to answer um and I and I don't know that
this a parking benefit district of this sort that we're imagining is um appropriate for paying somebody over the long term but I could see it you know for a concentrated period of time or a spring cleanup or something like that
sure well can the city enforce cleaning up outside your building i think the city can already enforce whatever the laws are on the rules on the books and doesn't need the parking benefit district yeah but I mean that
would be the ideal solution is if people had to clean up outside their building sure but it could be that this um you know parking benefit district could maybe um entice that sort of cleanup by saying
um you know we'll we'll pay for flowers or plantings outside of your properties once it's cleaned up or um I don't know we're going to get equipment um that will help you do a better job cleaning up or something like
that so so currently the money goes into the general fund and then the council decides what to do with it right the money the mayor decides what to do with the council approves it right is that that mean it actually is it's not I
guess it's the general fund in sense the general fund is like everything it's set aside though so they build up the the funds build up until the mayor decides to put a financial order through to do something otherwise with them i I thought I thought the same thing as you i thought I thought it recirculated back
into the budget every year yeah up until about a month ago is they've been building up which is pretty impetus to talk about okay so So there's so not the permits and not the not the tickets but the the meter revenue yes revenue has
been building up into a into a account basically right that's not part of the general fund that the the mayor has access can direct and so this would be taking a piece of that and segregating it um specifically
for however we frame out the parking benefit okay and and I think it should be advertised a lot so people know what their money is going for because they paying for the parking meter absolutely and the idea is that this would um have
a you know cumulative benefit over time that if downtown becomes cleaner and nicer more attractive more people will want to park which will generate more revenue to put back into this district keep it up yeah but if everybody abides by the law
there's no revenue no no that's not true because that's a different revenue talk you're right if everyone abides by the law there's more revenue that that's that's exactly if everyone got a ticket we wouldn't have any revenue we'd have different different revenue
and so um in terms of where we are now this has gone once to um the city council economic development committee it's going back there um next month and then uh once we all get I think on the
same page of what this plan would look like then I think councelor Gilly is going to bring it to city council so I would imagine it would go there June July and the So is there a reason why you're not just thinking central business district
um I I think the mayor had been a little bit concerned that that central business district is a pretty broad district um when compared with the amount of dollars at least at the outset that we'll have for the parking benefit district and so um I think was just worried about
setting an expectation for too broad swath when the reality is that the initial efforts will most likely be concentrated on Main Street and the immediate blocks right off the bat and that's where the parking is paid for
anyway um but again we haven't actually looked at the map and drawn the specifics that's just been the conversation so far which is the council committee that it's going to be referred to um it has already been and will remain at that
economic development committee got it or at least their next meeting it's on the agenda okay thank you so I mean does seem like it seems like the money currently doesn't have a well-
definfined path right and this provides a mechanism for it to be dispersed and I think it probably does make sense for it to be dispersed downtown yep and does that the money does not pay for
the parking enforcement correct correct so we will not be deprived of parking enforcement okay no we will we will not only not be deprived of it but the method that that gets accounted for in the city budget won't change um that felt like taking on
a huge um set of things that um was beyond the scope of really what everybody was looking for here really we were focused on um making downtown cleaner and ner nicer and more welcoming and and setting up a segregated fund
means that uh the funds available for these projects is not uh subject to the winds of change in the budget right correct correct so it's sending a message too that the city is trying to prioritize um not only talking about making
downtown clean but allocating some funds to try and help support that effort sort of like the elderly and disabled fund in terms of being segregated segregated yes to the extent that I'm I'm not 100% confident how that's segregated so I don't want to say
absolutely the same but yes I think so or similar okay similar yeah yes so do we need a motion yeah we can we can make a recommendation of the mayor do we have a re anybody want to phrase
one make a motion on that i I make a motion that uh we uh go with the parking benefit district uh and have it referred off to the economic development committee and then
ultimately to the council second okay any discussion we've already had it haven't we this is discussion on your proposal all right all in favor i I
Yay thank you slide forget um all right any updates on implementing changes parking policies not so much a policy but something that you did include in that set of recommendations that you sent over to the mayor a while back was about the parking kiosks and
your preference for how they should function um that you wanted multiple ways of paying through them um so now it's kind of starting to come to fruition um as part of this conversation with the parking benefit district there is that that money that is set aside that's kind of just been building up
right um could be used for something like and and it could be used for something like this and so during that meeting about the parking benefit district um uh we had just had a a tangential conversation about using some of the funds for uh upgrading the city's parking kiosks the approximately 10
kiosks that are in the city's parking lots not not the meters that are on the street parking the kiosk that you walk over and currently get a ticket and walk back to your car and put it on your dashboard um and the mayor thought it was would be a good idea to use those some of those builtup funds to to
upgrade them and replace them um replace them is a better word um so it's just an update to all of you that um that process um is in motion um kind of have already have a kind of a vision for the kind of ones we want just like something
better allows you to pay with card coin um I guess theoretically your phone that kind of thing just flexibility for people and pay by plate and and yeah and then pay by plate was the other thing you suggested so um taking all those things to into account um the number I given to the mayor um which she was uh
acknowledged at the time was 80,000 so that's like an average of 8,000 each they might be more than that but that's at least the amount that the the mayor currently has in mind um it could be more though um just so I'm working on researching um requests for proposals that other communities have put out um
seeing kind of the way it's done and how you need to award it to to to get the kind of kiosk that you you want to get um and then from there we'll kind of see if we can get a ballpark estimate for for what this is going to cost um and then officially put the uh the RFP out
there and get these things bought um so it it's not an immediate thing but it's a slow process of getting RFP out there but it's in motion and and these would be uh passport compatible and also take credit cards
correct um in regards to passport it's it's maybe not exactly what you're talking about Jim but passport is the the city's um uh the backend kind of financial um the word is the financial management for the parking so paying for
permits paying for your um your parking on an app um they and I asked them at a meeting I had with them recently if they could be the people that kind of manage the the payment system for the kiosks um so like when you're paying on a credit card it goes through passport system just like you're when you're buying a
permit it goes through passport system as opposed to having two separate systems and they gave me the list of kiosk vendors that they are compatible with so that would probably be a requirement in the RFP is to be able to work with Passport um because P passport's been pretty great to work with recently honestly and they're the
ones that that also go to enforcement correct yeah and then the city's uh parking enforcement um officials have the tablets that they carry around to issue tickets that's passport as well so getting everything under one umbrella would be fantastic great i think that makes sense good job
thanks um so we're going to keep working on that and hopefully I'll have more details and in the meet the meetings over the next few months on that RFP and as we gain a vision for the exact kind of kiosk we're looking for but these kiosks will not take coins or
they will they they will that's that's the preference anyway and I think most kiosk vendors if even if they don't by default they can definitely add a way to to pay a coin um I think that's a at least that's my desire and I think the mayor's desire is to always have the the
ability to pay with coin yeah I think people appreciate that people with the app just don't need it right yeah if you want to keep using the app you keep using the app you don't have to kiosk all you have to do is put in your license plate no yeah
but you put in your license plate in the kiosk yeah um so so that's that's the idea is you put your license plate this is actually how it works I believe in Northampton and in Ammeris you put your license plate into the kiosk and it sends it off to the the system for the parking enforcement people so that when
they're walking around they see okay yep that's license plates on my system that one's on my system as opposed to having to go back to your car every time and put a thing on your dashboard they're already having to do that i I see what you I see i'm I I'm sorry i was getting that confused with the parking app if
you have the parking app you don't need the kiosk exactly but if you don't have the parking app then you've got three ways to pay card plate or coin no no no you always put your plate in
and then you pay by card or coin or Yeah right right coin coin yeah I think there's a some of them i mean you can if you really wanted to you could put the RFP out there that they have to take paper but yeah that might be more yeah that would be more and I
don't no one else around us does pay for their kiosk so So tell me how the plate works that's for the that's what you use to pay for passport is your license plate because they've got your credit card and so so you just you go to the
kiosk you put your plate in your plate number in and then pay your card with coin with your card with coin they give you a little ticket you wouldn't have to go back to your car to put the ticket on the dashboard oh I I I I see what what
you're saying yeah i mean they're two separate entities you can either do the kiosk or passport i'm saying paid by plate but I probably should be saying register by plate or something um otherwise besides that um the
implementing the parking the changes to parking policies there's a few signs that still need to get swapped um DPW is obviously pretty burdened over the winter when we were trying to make these by the snow we were talking about earlier yeah how's it going with the uh permit spots and stuff do any have you
had any comments about it being removed or I've had no comments um honestly the the the lot that I was most concerned about is the Aim Street lot and that the signage technically hasn't changed over but for the last two years people have been parking wherever in that law anyway and we haven't been enforcing it so we
were just changing the policy to reflect reality anyway exactly great um anything else on that uh nothing on that one um the Main Street redesign updates i always keep this on there hoping yeah there'll be something that comes up the day before in case
just in case but the I think it's the same update as either the last meeting or both the last two meetings that the um the design is submitted to Mass DOT from the city and Fuss and O'Neal and Mass DOT has not um gotten back to the
city yet um besides to ask that question about the the roundabout which received a resounding answer already so since then there's been um no additional uh feedback so still still waiting dp to be still waiting yeah i I wish I had been
able to explore the roundabout me too i think that would have been I've been I haven't been interested to see whether that could have worked because um Okay so I guess that's it i did I I did send out that that link to the part the
um the update on the that I did on the accidents in green fields that was super helpful to to I think that's going to be a cool way to see what's going on um especially when we when we
uh get to the point where we're thinking about crosswalks or we get remorse from people saying that part of it all right so that's all I have it's okay that's it huh anything for next meeting
want to make sure we talk about issues okay very well that's it that's it all right jim motion to have a second secondly okay is there
anything comment first i mean no there was none okay right once you make that motion Jim and you get a second there's no discussion there's just either yes or no non debatable i think Stephanie is is chomping at the bit to say something i
think yes Stephanie no okay we'll adjourn that's the end okay all in favor i Okay see y'all see you bye bye Part: 2
Thank you everyone for joining us this evening. Um this meeting is being recorded by the conservation commission. If any other persons present are doing so, you must notify me at this time. Uh calling to order and we'll start online with Erica.
Uh here I Emily I I'm obviously also here. Um so let's move on. And can I have a motion to approve meeting minutes from April
8th, 2025? So move. Can I get a second? Second. All right. Uh Erica, we're going to just lead with you for the vote. I Emily, I I'm also on I reading minutes are approved. Uh and they should be
available up on the website uh the following day. Uh so we have our first public hearing for the day. Um this is continued from September 10th, 2024. Notice of intent, stream bank restoration at 290 Shelurn
Road, map 25, lot 31A, D number 168-0364. The project proposes the restoration of a portion of Wheelerbrook where a section of the bank is heavily eroding as a result of the heavy rains in 2023 2023. The applicant is proposing to restore the section of the stream bank
that is adjacent to the parking area as well as remove the silt and remaining debris from the stone swale. Additional erosion control measures are proposed downstream of the work. Okay. So, um, the few of the commission
members and I did a site visit last week to, um, view the erosion and the area they would like to restore. Uh, Justin and Dale Putnham are on the call right now who can provide further detail and
answer any questions. Oh, let me share my screen though. Um, so this was a NOI that was initially submitted last uh August
and the feedback from the state um was thorough and so they revised the plans. These are the revised plans to include um green armor and um we we can look at
these plans or we could look at the photos. How would you like to proceed first? Um if they're since we have the plans up if um Justin or Dale is able to walk us through these that would be wonderful. Yeah, absolutely. Can you
guys hear me? Sure can. Perfect. So just for the record, Justin McCarti engineering. So, Jessica, if you don't mind, I'd like to work left to right on this plan. So, if you want to go down where the payment is. Uh, nope. Scroll
back up. Um, where the note is at the end on the left hand side of the page. Um, oh, keep going left. I think this is as far left as it goes. Oh, sorry. Uh, bring your cursor up. It might be a delay on
my end. Sorry. Oh, is it um where I have the uh turbidity curtain proposed? Oh, the turbidity curtain. Yeah, at the end of the um near the um that's by the culvert, right? Yep. By
the culvert like here. Nope. The other end. So, that's up by the parking area. I want to talk about that spot last. So, a little bit up. Right there. There we are. Oh, okay. Yeah, I see it.
So, yeah, right here. So, that's the culvert with the pavement. Correct. So, as as stated back in uh 2023 with the major flooding across the state, the majority of this area was flooded from
Wheeler Brook. So, you can if you zoomed in, you could see smaller black dots. The previous engineer went out there. Yeah. So, not the ones that say WF on them, but on the other side of the bank where we're
working, there was smaller black dots. When you went out on site, there was pink flagging that denoted the limit of the erosion from that storm event. So, all we're looking to do is
restore from that erosion back to what the original edge of stream was. So that's the small dotted hatch area that you see there. And then the larger circles are the plantings that we would be proposing. They would consist of a
mix of black chokeberry and southern arrowwood. So as we go up the stream, you'll see where we're looking to restore the stream bank and then you'll see groupings of these plantings. So, we would be restoring the stream bank in a
mix of the green armor, which is detailed at the bottom of the sheet. And I do have some photos of that I can share in a little bit, as well as um New England Conservation Seed Mix and restoring the bank that way. When we
were on site, you could tell there were some spots where yes, we would be using the green armor system and other spots where the erosion wasn't as bad where we would just want to restore with the conservation seed mix and plantings as needed. So, we'd be proposing that all
the way up the stream bank to the upper parking area. We did look at that on site and kind of where if you go up a little bit is where we were uh I believe Jessica and one of the commission members walked out where the brook was
and though there is a lot of erosion it seems fairly stable because of the invasive species. It would be a lot of work to get in there. So, they were wondering if we needed to do the upper portion of the restoration. I did tell
them that depending on how the commission felt, we would be more than happy to leave that in its natural state or if the commission did want the restorations, obviously, we show it here on the plan. So like I said, this would be in the
larger areas where there was more disturbed more so on the corner where the rip wrap exists rip wrap swale is that would be ideally where we would want to put the green armor system. So it consists of doing a back fill to get
back to the original limit of the stream bank. You lay the green armor system over it. you hydro seed and plant that and that's what takes root and stabilizes the bank. The last thing is when we met on site, we did look up at
the upper parking lot area. If the commission recalls at the COC, we were talking about mitigation planting somewhere up in that area. After seeing it on site, we we're still open to doing some sort of
plantings up there, but we would suggest that we keep it minimal to still allow access to control the Japanese knotweed up there where it is relatively thick
and it is fairly close to the limit of clearing that's there right now. So, that's pretty much it for what we're looking to do. If you want, I can share my screen and show
the green armor system. Just a couple examples that I found and then I can take any questions from the commission. Sounds great. Thank you. So, one second here. Let me just find my
cursor. Share share. Can everyone see? Can everyone see that? Yes. Okay. So, this is just an example project that the developers of the green armor system had on their website
where you can see you have a vegetation here, you have a bank, you have the slope, and then you have a body of water. So, if I can see if I don't want to zoom in too much, but you can see here the black is the start of them
rolling out this green armor system and they're going to be coming this way with it. So, it's just a better picture. You can see that you almost key in the green armor system at the top of bank and then
you roll it out. The best example I got of this green armor is if you imagine Juke Madding in the old steel brill pads had a baby. So it is a hard it's a
harder He told me that and I'm like that really makes sense. It's so it's not as fine as the juke matting the you'll see it in some of the other pictures. The spacing is a little bit larger, which allows you to hydro
seed and plant it, but the fibers themselves are tougher. It's more of a plastic type fiber that stabilizes and keeps everything together. So, it like I said, it was a
weird analogy, but it made sense when he said it. So, here it is. And obviously, we have a head wall with the culverts. This is all hydro seated. And that matting is underneath. So next picture, you can see they're
spraying the hydro seed. So at this point, they've backfilled, they've put the slope in, they've put the green armor system over, and now they're hydro seeding on top of that, which is what we would do obviously on much smaller
scale. So this is it. You can see the whole slope is stabilized. It comes down this way. And then if I can zoom in. I don't know if I'm going to be able to. So this is it's not going to let me zoom in any
further. So this is a specimen from their system. So you can see that the soil takes hold. Excuse me. The grass does take hold and you can see the root developed system in here. So even though
it is a hard plastic system, it it does allow for growth in of vegetation plants. This is a bigger a couple pictures ago. This is the same one that we're seeing here. You can see it all laid
out. Obviously with the cross in here and some larger armoring, they incorporated that into their system. And then here's a zoomed in. So you can see right here is the mat is the green armor. And
then again you can see how the grass has taken hold and it does embed itself and stabilize. And this is a final product after everything excuse me is
hydroed everything takes hold. This is what it looks like as a finished product. So, it'd be very similar to what we're proposing, plus we would have additional plantings on our slopes, let me
think, and just kind of a different give you a wider view. So, you roll the the uh matting out, you'll hydro seed it, we'll put the plantings in, take root, and then let everything establish.
So then there was other this just kind of breaks again this is their website everything that breaks down for it and if I can grab this just to give you a
better better view of what it what it actually looks like. Like I said, if you take droop matting and the brill pads, you you get this. So, like I was saying, you have the wider gaps in here. It allows for the
hydro seed to get in to actually establish establish itself in the soil underneath. And it would be the same thing for the plantings. We'd probably have to make a few bigger holes depending on the root ball sizes, but it
does allow for the growth of plantings and grass. And just obviously they give you their rundown of how it works, everything like that. And it does say EPA, Army Corpse.
It is considered by the bigger governing bodies a sustainable BMP in an alternative to the hard armor which was what we had originally
proposed as part of the filing. So I answer my question. We'll have a public comment. So with that, D did receive this revised plan. I do
have their comments here. I believe the commission received them as well. So this was really make sure we have the COC update the filing fees per the requirements. Make sure that the OC is
going to reference the correct plan. refile, renotify the abuters and publish in the newspaper. Excuse me. The two I just want to point out is the first one regarding the delineation that was done.
So as part of the original NOI back in '08 for the construction of the congregation the delineation was done by Ecotech Whitman and BAM did the survey that was all based that's the basis of
the construction of the Jehovah's Witness. The stream bank was still where it was up until 2023 when it flooded and eroded. So we're not looking we're just looking to go back to that and we're not
proposing any work on the opposite side of the stream where more of the wetland was. So we still feel that that delineation still valid for the scope of the work that we're doing today. The other
comment is he suggested trading curtains in the flowing water usually doesn't work. So right here. So the stream comes down this way. It goes under a concrete. It
looks like an open bottom culvert and then continues off. I did propose a tability curtain at the entrance. As part of this work, we would put erosion control at the limits at the bottom of slope of our work, which would be your silt fence straw
waddle. I wanted to add an extra level of protection in the event that one of the erosion control measures fails. I didn't want sediment getting beyond the culvert and further downstream. We would be doing
this ideally during low flow. So when this when Wheeler Brookke isn't gushing with water, that's ideally when we would want to do it again to limit how much work we're doing next to and slightly in the
water to restore the stream bank and limit any potential sedimentation from getting further downstream. If the commission has a alternative that they've used in situations like this or they would prefer to see something different here,
I'm happy to change it. This was just an option that I at least wanted to show the commission we do have intent to limit our version the best we can and keep it where we're working, not let it
get further downstream. So other than that, I'd be happy to answer any questions from the commission. At this point, uh Jessica, you've got some pictures for us to take a look at. Justin, will you um There you go.
Thanks. So, we did a site visit on the 16th. Let's see. Hold on. Maybe start at the other end. Okay. Okay. So, this is the kind of the bend from the upper parking lot to the lower, I
believe. And um the all the Japanese knotweed. And you can kind of start seeing where the brook is poking out and some erosion is visible. So, this is where
um I think I'm standing right about where that Japanese knotwheat ended looking east. Um and this is where some of the heaviest erosion is that's compromising the swale. And that's the
edge of the parking lot right on the corner there. Um they have some geothermal underneath that parking lot. So, they're concerned about that um as well as the you know the swale
they just put that in a few years ago. So um this is looking back towards that upper lot. So you can see that's the bend from the upper lot to the lower lot. And you can see all this edging. This is looking east again. I'm
just a little further down. Um, and here's some more erosion. There's this sort of depressed little like flatter flood planey that um goes with the alternating part of the
riverbend, right? So, it's is bending this way and then it comes back this way and it's like a little kind of deposit area that's grassy. There we go. That's a better picture of it. And this is um we were just looking at
that, but this is kind of a better picture that's like headed into the culvert. And this is a paved kind of like a paved drive um that crosses the brook to the other property that borders Mohawk
Trail. That's the Culver. Now I'm standing on that pave drive looking west at the brook. So to the left is the the neighboring property that borders Mohawk and uh Emily and I
took took a walk to that property. Um, so it turns out upstream there is a a naturally created dam that
diverts what I consider to be the the bulk more than half of the water that is going down that brook and it connects it to this flood plane. And so we there's Emily.
We walked up and you can see this brook coming down this way now and it's it's flowing. [Music] And so we headed up that grassy area. And so now we're like pretty far
upstream at the upper lot. There's a shed. I don't know if you remember with the uh certificate of compliance, there was a shed at the very edge of the um sort of the the parking lot. The parking lot's here and then there's a grassy area with the shed in the corner. So, we
kind of entered the woods on the opposite side um in line with the shed and we're looking down. So, you can't really see the water dam yet. So, right now this the the brook is is one. It hasn't split
yet. And yeah, so see there's the shed. Here's a bunch of knotw weeds. Some pretty decentsized rocks holding the bank. Um, and so so some of the proposed work
I believe would extend until like here. Um, it's the biggest area when you look at the map. Yeah, that would be extending the bank. And so we headed
downstream and this is the the dam that we found. It's a natural log jam. Yeah. And it uh it so like see this little path to the left that actually feeds the brook in front of their
parking lot. And then this is the water being diverted to the other property. And yeah, so like back here goes to the brook. This is being diverted. The bulk of what you see is the diverted and then it comes out here.
So one of the things we talked about is how significantly worse their situation would be without that log jam. Uh that's it for the photos. Erica, do you have any comments or
questions or things you remember from being there? Um, they came back together right after the after the little after the culvert, didn't they? Yeah, after the culvert. It goes around the culvert basically, right? And then then they do come back
together. So, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Downstream. And I have the plans back up. if I could just add. Um, so what kept turning me around at the site visit and then again when we first start this
meeting. So this is the lower lot, this parking lot right here. I'm I am circling it with my cursor. And then this is the bend to the upper lot. And then that's the shed. So what when Emily and I were on the stream bank upstream,
we were seeing that this little section that borders the upper lot. It has like a rock with daffodils and we could kind of pretty much clearly see that where the log jam was and it so it lines up kind of with
sort of the lower part of this this upper reach of restoration uh u proposal. So anyway, I just wanted to point out that that's where the log jam was. Uh Justin, yeah. Could you describe what
the work would be if you did indeed do the restoration on the upper part? So it it would be similar to what we'd be doing on the bend where the swale is, but there would
be probably a little bit more definitely clearing of the knotweed, trying to take out as much of that as possible just solely to access that area. And then like I said, similar to the corner, it would
be fill from the limit of the erosion back to the existing edge of the brook, fill that with material, put your green armor over it, hydro seed it, plant it.
And that's why on that section there, there's a lot more area and it's a denser planting because we would want to make sure that would be stabilized thoroughly.
But again, being out there on site, there is a large amount of notweed. It it it would be it would be a fairly intensive job. I know
typically from my experience, I've seen I've had commissions want work like that done. Um, again, I'm I think personally if the commission is hesitant about doing that
much work and having that much more alteration to restore that back. I would say I'd rather not touch that because there is more buffer from where that
erosion is to the upper parking lot. So all that knotweed there, I would think at some point that notweed would just overtake again and the knotweed would stabilize like way back in the day when it got brought into the state and that was the thought of using it.
But definitely on the corner would be where we would do the work if if that helps you at all. Yeah, that's really helpful. Um to do the restoration work where the knotweed is thickest in that
big area up towards the upper part of the stream. Um you'd have to bring in equipment or machines to do that, right? I can't imagine how it could be done by hand. No, no, no. That would that would definitely have to be a machine. I would think
a probably a mini would be sufficient because you would try as much as you'd want to do it all in one shot, you'd probably have to do it in phases and stage kind get once established and you would want to work
downstream. But you'd want to start at the end and work your way back towards the corner. So that way everything stabilizes above it as you're working down. But yeah, so machine would have to get in there just to clean out the knot. We
get that all stabilized and good to restore the bank. And there was a couple Oh, sorry. Go ahead. I was gonna I was just gonna say if you if you did if we did do the work in that area, you'd have to take out the natural dam that's already there
to get to be able to get around to do the work. I depending exactly where it is that may or may not have to go. I know Mr. Putnham would prefer for that and I think it betters everyone for that
to stay because the art piece is undeveloped. that naturally goes that way and it does end up connecting back on the other side of the culvert. So, we're not disconnecting the body of water. It's just taking a detour, but it
still goes through it still goes through part of a wetland system. That's the finger up at the top of the page. So, it's still naturally getting back to where it is. And it does, at least for
our side, it does greatly reduce the problems that we would be having if all that water did go down the stream channel on our side. The other concern I have is that
bringing in equipment and digging out that much in order to access where you're going to refill the bank means that there's a much greater likelihood of erosion or or with material getting into the waterway even at low flow. So
we if it's if that portion is eliminated from the job then the fill that's put in seems like it could be more contained and it's much a much smaller area. You know, if you look at the the plan, the um you know, the majority of the surface
area is that upper part. This is the view again of the jam right here. And then this is the bank. And if you go, wait, I went the wrong way. Go closer.
It's I don't see how it could be it could not be compromised. Like the bank's like right there, you know, on the other side. See the soil? Mhm. Uh yeah, that's kind of what I was
worried. I mean, because it seems like it's doing a good job and to get in there to do work would have would disturb it. So, might be better to just leave it alone. That's what I I thought too. I mean, as loath as I am to leave invasive species,
it seems counterintuitive to go in there, dig that stuff out. Yeah, it I would say it's almost lesser of two evils. Yes. Right. Yeah. I mean, I that's that's the area
where you're talking about doing some planting. So maybe just those, you know, the plantings will help to stabilize that area up there without having to do the whole Yeah. invasive part and where we would be looking to do the um I'll
wait for her to bring the plan back up. So it Yeah. So where we would be doing it is on the back side of the upper parking lot. I know, like I said, as we had discussed in the COC that there was
some plantings that that were done. They weren't maintained. They ended up dying off. So, it's not I would not say it's manicured lawn up there, but it's some plantings there's grass area and then
right at the edge of the grass area is all that knotweed. So, I know at the last meeting we were talking about, oh yeah, we'll do a fair amount of mitigation plantings. We'll let that go back to kind of a natural state looking
at really how much notweed is there. I would still be open to doing plantings there. I would just ask that we look towards more shrubs uh varying in size,
clustered in a way that they can still get in there and maintain the knotweed on the back side. Because my fear would be if we did a full mitigation planting that Ecotech
had originally proposed back in 2014. I believe I I'd be afraid that they wouldn't be able to get behind it to maintain the knotweed. Thus, the knotweed just overtakes everything and chokes it all out and we're back to where we started.
There's another area to the right which we didn't really get into or take pictures of that has some tall trees which are doing a great job of maintaining and supporting the soil and they're completely covered in bittersweet. So it's really just circled around by
invasives everywhere except for the flood plane. There weren't a lot. Yeah. I think they maintained that for a while. Yeah. Emily, was the is the bittersweet on their side or is that on the opposite side?
I'm not sure where the property line is, but it was um beyond the parking lot where we were parked, the upper the upper lot, right? Um perpendicular to the stream. They're probably running parallel to the road.
It's hard for me to get the directions. So, no, I just I was just wondering Go ahead. Go ahead. I was just gonna say I was just wondering I mean I know they're doing a lot with the knotweed, but if they, you know, could keep that at bay just so that we didn't lose any of the big trees that are holding stuff in.
Yeah. You know, well, and the bittersweet as well. If the bittersweet interferes with the growth of those trees, then we lose the benefit. Yeah. Because they'll choke it. They'll they'll wrap it and and choke it. It's true. Yeah. And if that's a I'm not even sure if
that's their property. Gotcha. Yeah, cuz I think this is the property line. Yeah, I think it might be beyond the property line. Yeah, I think the ones you're talking about I think that's beyond their property line. Okay. is so
it without having the property line state it's hard to tell but I I would want to lean towards that that's off property. We did talk about um the shrubs that you pick um and there being an opportunity
there for there to be some wildlife impact um because so much of the area is compromised. Well, and that's that choke cherry or choke berry that is on there is great for birds and what have you. Yep. Yeah.
And that was the list Jessica had sent over to us. I forwarded that to our landscape architect and had him look it over and pick. So up at the upper parking lot, we would similar thing.
Maybe if we're doing the chokeberries down there, maybe we do something similar but a little bit different just to he would like his variety. I told him as long as you don't go too crazy so it doesn't die out. But we we we would be
in that same realm of planting. It's obviously native to Franklin County and something that would provide to the habitat in the surrounding area. That'd be great. So, um I wish Kristen was here. I know
she would have great inputdeed, but um the I'm not sure how formal we want to be. I know Justin, you had said you wanted to get feedback and then you wanted to revise the plans accordingly. Yeah. Yeah. Because the biggest thing
obviously being the upper portion of Wheelerbrook where we are talking should we do it should we not if the commission would rather see that just be left in its natural state.
Obviously that'd be something I'd update on the plan. I would take that off. I'd note to leave that. I want the commission's input regarding okay if we take that off what would the commission like to see for mitigation plantings up at the upper parking lot like we had talked about.
So, it was just some of those things I would like to see at least a little guidance or yep, we agree make those changes and then hopefully at the next meeting you have a full commission and we can either be
good or if we have to iron out some further details, things like that. I just at least wanted to make some progress so we're closer to the finish line because the other thing is we say low flow to do this work. So
you're probably looking I guess like towards the end of summer. Obviously, if there's a 3-w weekek drought and this thing dries up, we would like to if we can get do the work sooner because the conditions allow
us to, we would like to, but we're not trying to push and be like, "Oh, we want to get out there tomorrow. We we just want the sooner we have the permit, the sooner we're able to do the work when the conditions allow us to." that I
think that's just the one thing we're we're looking for. I I think leaving that upper part is probably going to be safer all around, but I would definitely want to see on the map kind of like fairly really like
closely exactly where that that that division is, you know, where where the where the natural dam is. um you know is it is it right at that corner or is it just you know is it up a little bit or is it you know so I you know kind of
wanted to see exact kind of fairly fairly accurately where it is actually yeah if that information can be included in the plans it it would definitely be relevant we can definitely at least get close enough
where we're like it's here, maybe it's a couple feet here, a couple feet there, but at least you know. Yeah, I think from where we were discussing, I think if you zoom in on
the plan, there's a flag that's WFR A10, right? Yep. Right there. So, I know you said you had found a couple blue flags. We could see them when we were standing at the upper parking lot. Yeah. If I had to take an
educated guess, I think it's right where that WFR10 flag is cuz then I agree with you based on like when we were out there. Yeah. So, but I can note it. I can show it on the plan
and I can ma put a note stating maintain existing conditions. Oh, where are we? East uh west of WFR10 or some something like
that. So they know leave that portion alone just work everything downstream of that. Yeah, just I just think being accurate would or you know close to accurate so that we can justify also why we're not insisting you do the upper part you know. Yes, absolutely. Exactly kind of
where it is. Um if you have sort of a strategy or a rough sketch of what you intend for the plantings in the uh the area next to the parking lot that'd be helpful for us to Yeah. So it'd be very similar to and
when I say that I mean regarding the symbols the notes that you see on this plan it would be like that shown in however we cluster it show it on the plan then we'll update the table according
accordingly to show quantity and species. Great. And then um for the area where there will be the green armoring, I know we talked about the height of the bank in some areas uh is pretty steep and
abrupt and then in other areas like the bench area that Jessica called out is more more gradual and less in need of that, you know, adding fill. So, I'm not sure if you'll delineate this on the plan, but um if there are areas where
you you see that the green armoring isn't necessary or it's optional, um that'd be helpful, too. Yeah. Just kind show where Okay, green armor here. We'll do natural over here, right? That's kind of
what you're looking for, where it's going to be a natural restoration and where we would have to put that green armor system in. Right. Exactly. I I just had one question about that green armor, but that I wasn't sure if you maybe I missed. Is it Is it Does it
eventually bodegrade or is it is it always is it always there because you kept saying it was plastic and I didn't know if it was really plastic or you just that was sort of what it was like. I believe it is. It is a hard plastic.
Um, I thought there was something I noticed on the website as you were walking us through that that they me made mention of having it not be something that sheds microplastics into Yes, that's what I was trying to I'm
like I know it doesn't shed them, but I can triple check. any more information have about the long-term life of it and decomposition or stability or you know harm or not harm that'd be helpful for
us too. Yeah. No, no, I can definitely pull something out of all their information regarding that. Um, but yeah, I would say it it doesn't
shed the the microlastics, but looking real quick, I don't see on hand what their Yeah, I didn't lipanically what the material or or the lifespan of it was. So, if you could provide us with that
detail, that would be very helpful. So just looking real just looking quick. They uh designed with uh durable UV stabilized thermally fused nylon filaments. So that but let me I can put
together a little write up. I'll say like a little memo just detailing what what it is and how it acts. Perfect. Dale, did you have any comments or questions?
If you're still there. Yeah. No, I'm still here. I'm I'm just listening to the whole uh discussion. Um no, Justin's got it all under control. If you have any questions that I could help with, um I think if
we with that, um natural dam identified, we also would need to know how far away you want us to stay from it. Yeah, that's a good point. Um, I think the feedback that I would
give is that uh any work that's done below it that's not going to inter interact with it to cause it to destabilize is going to be fine. Um, so maybe some that's part of the reason why it's important for it to be on the plan
Justin so that you can provide some information to us and you can also be assessing what the impact on it would be. Yes. So just bull for daily in for the commission based on the conversation.
Let's say it's at RA10, right? I would still want to do the work where it's zoomed in right now where it says 6HV and you see the six shrubs going along that thin a little bit to the
left. Yeah. Um, that's really where you start seeing the erosion coming down towards the corner where it's eroding the rip wrap swale. And because that section runs parallel with it, that
would be one spot I would I would like to start the work there so that way we don't further erode. And then great, we fixed the problem at the corner, but now upstream it's eroded right two, three years down the road from now. And now
the upper part of the swale's starting to fall in and we're back here doing it again. So kind of where her cursor is right now there left would be it's a natural break in the work too. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of where I'm why I'm in my head I'm picturing that would be the start of the work. But again, if that log is a little bit further down, maybe we tweak it a little bit and push the line down. But
just to give the commission a rough idea, that's where I would want to start. Can you bring up the pictures just for a minute, Jessica? Oh, yeah. So, I think that Yep. spot that we
outline like probably starts right here. Yeah. So, basically where I'm standing on. Yep. That that that's pretty much it. Emily, let me know if you want me to stop at any particular spot. I think
because that shows us what is above it basically. And it's Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead, Erica. Oh, sorry. Um, I know. I was just gonna say I think actually I think that's the picture that shows pretty good. I was
just going to say for Elizabeth I mean where they're talking about bringing the bank out where the original bank was. Um, because I thought that was helpful for me when I was there seeing like oh okay that's what you're talking about like you know but that one shows kind of where those rocks are. It was that was
as far out as the bank was originally. So, that's an indication of how I mean that sort of shows how much fill they're going to have to put in. That was a good point. Like it so it like went from this little rock island and it it tapers
toward the bank, right? So, I'm probably doing it wrong, but um it's not like it's out that far the whole time. It just it kind of arc like more and more towards the bank. Okay. You can see in this picture where
Dale's standing right behind the stick where it's starting to cave in and it's actually starting to pull in some of the rip wrap from the drainage swale. So that's just that's how far out it's pushing.
Yeah. All right. I I feel like I have a clear picture. Do we have any further questions from the commission at this point? We can open up the hearing to any public comment.
Well, Eric, I asked my question. I was wondering if it was biodegradable at Green Armor. And Justin, can you hear me? Yep. Do you know where you get that? Do you get it at EJ Prescott or Yeah. So, it's
a um it's a sister company. They they partner with EJP. That's where So, we got it. We got their info through EJP. Okay. That's where I get I use Joot on
my banks. So, I forget I forget the gentleman's name that pointed this one out to us, but that was my we had reached out to him and said, "What can we use?" And he gave this one as
a this is the new alternative to that. Yeah. Well, it looks pretty cool. Yeah. it. So, one of the pictures I have here, uh, they actually used it at the SoChi Olympics when they were building the
village, and it's their picture of them doing one of the ravines for the drainage. Like, all right, that's impressive. Okay. Um, any further comment or question from the public? Great. Then we
are going to take a motion to continue this to our next meeting which will be May 13th. Um can I can I get a motion? So moved. So moved. Can I have a second?
Second. Okay. Uh so then Erica going to go ahead and start with you to vote. I Emily I I am also an I. We will continue this on to uh May 13th and I look forward to seeing you all there.
Fantastic. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Okay, so that's all we've got for our public hearings. Uh we're going to move on to new uh business and we have a proposed bird survey request from Patricia
Sarantino. A wildlife ecologist is requesting support to conduct a three-year bird survey in Highland Park. This project involves surveying birds every year during late spring to early summer and again in the winter to document potential breeding birds. Patricia will be using a point count survey method. Two of the six survey
points are located within wetland buffer zones. Okay. So I um I have the points up here on the screen and two of the six are within wetland buffer zones I believe H1 and
H6. Yeah. Can you hear me? Okay. Uhhuh. Yeah, I think that's good. You can hear me? Yes. Okay. Um, yeah, it's HP6 and HP1. And HP, yeah, HP1 is next to the
vernal pools. I don't know how familiar people are with Highland Park. So, that lower um trail, there's a big vernal pool there. So, one um one point is right there, like on a trail. All the Let's see. I'm thinking all of them are on a trail on the trail except at
Highland Pond right at the north end where it kind of ends right there. and there's a culvert. I I just stand right there in the grass and that would obviously be in a buffer zone. And then um let's see because I wrote this down so I wouldn't forget the um one is on
the power lines 2 A which you which is pretty obvious there. Yep. 2 A and then 5A down below that and um let's see 3B are in upland forest and then 4C is
right on the top of the ridge. So because it's a it's a small park um instead of putting the points random I I really placed them so that I would get you know an idea of different habitats in the
park. Makes sense. So what poet see this? No, this it's Highland Park which is just to the what would you say? Yeah, depending on what direction you're in. And Pat,
um it said what kind of um uh survey you're going to do, but could you just tell us will you be doing visual counts or song based on the song or? So um when you do point counts, I mean the only way I know how to do them, which is I think the major way people do, you know,
people have done them now for for decades really. Um you stand at the at the point for about usually it varies by study. It's 5 to 10 minutes and you listen and you look and you record everything because in the usually during
the breeding season in a forest it's really hard to see the birds um with the leaves. So you have to use a lot by ear. Um, and then I decided to do it in the winter because I just thought it'd be interesting to see what's out there in the winter. I mean, you know, it's probably the same thing you'd expect,
but you know, sometimes things come up or, you know, that you don't you don't expect. I know one thing doing these kind of uh studies is you always come up with things that you didn't expect or, you know, learn something new. So, it's it's usually pretty interesting.
Do you use an app for the bird ID or do you know them all? Well, I mean it's it'd be really nice to say I know them all. I mean, I've been doing this for for years, so I know most of them, but I know whenever I get out there to do a
formal survey is when I'm like, "Oh my god, is that a chickity or a tit mouse?" Because their songs can be the same or their calls. So that's why I'm saying is you learn a lot because um now you're trying to do something very formally. You don't want to write down chickity if
it's not a chickity. So, I do use Merlin once in a while if I'm confused over, you know, pretty confused over something or um but usually every spring I try to actually review bird song and then you know calls are calls are very difficult
like you know you can listen to the calls on on a you know an app or whatever and it will say oh yeah you know this warbler sounds like you know a metallic and then a you know this is more like a pitch and then you listen
you're They sound the same. So, you know, that part's difficult, but you know, the other thing is if you do it three times, you know, you'll get if you make a mistake, you'll figure it out. Or if you're not sure, you know, you put question mark because maybe that's maybe
you don't want to add that bird in or it's in the wrong habitat, so you're probably not hearing what you think you heard. Well, and that actually raises my question. When you've completed this study, what will you be doing with that information? Will it be made public so that we have documentation of what we're
seeing here and now in terms of migratory birds in their h in their habits? Right. That that was one of the reasons is, you know, I've been going to Highland Park for over 30 years. And you know, there's some really interesting birds in there that probably most people don't realize are there. And I thought
this would be a good way to get some baseline data for as long as we can do it and have permission because in the future, you know, with climate change and also, you know, this woolly delgid, which Emily, you're probably more familiar with that than I am. Um, you know, there's just a lot of things out
there that are now affecting bird populations. So, it'd be nice to have some data to know it's out there. And it's a pretty, you know, it's a pretty diverse park for a small area, you know, habitat wise. I think this is an excellent study. Erica, do you have comments or
questions? Sorry. I I'm impressed. I love it because I have an app on my phone I got from Cornell and what's interesting is you go out, we're out on Land Black Road and I go out in the morning, all the birds are so chatty and it's amazing like
1925 bird uh sounds come in. I was never aware of all these birds and it's so cool because you then you can click on and it tells you all the information on the bird. So, I'm impressed that you want to do this. I think it's so cool. Erica, did you have any questions or
comments? Uh, no. It sounds great. I'd love to see what your data ends up being. Uh, do you have any concerns specifically as it relates to the resource areas that you have brought to our attention? Um, no. because I don't,
you know, I just stand there and I listen. So it's not like, you know, I'm I'm running through the vernal pool, which you don't want to do anyway. Um, you know, so, so you really, you know, sometimes if you can't, if you don't know where a bird is and you see it, you know, you can usually move around and
not, you know, disturb things very much. But normally you're not doing a lot of walking around the area. You're trying to stay still so that the birds now just think you're, you know, you're not moving, which which means you're disturbing them less. And un I mean unfortunately the birds in there, you
know, they they get disturbed a lot by, you know, people and and dogs and so they're probably used to more disturbance than we realize, but there's no, you know, you don't want to add to it. Um the other thing is um probably, you know, if if you're if you want at the end of every year, I can just give
you a synopsis and then after a few years I'll probably try to do some, you know, just minimal data analysis like abundance and diversity, things like that. But after every year, it'd be very simple to just, you know, have an Excel file, for example, that says, "These are
the birds I saw, and these are the ones we think we're breeding and other and others that we're not sure of or moving through or whatever." That'd be really valuable. Would um I think the recreation uh Christie said she'd like to get the results and then you would get the
results. And I I think is there any other people you think or commission, you know, departments that would want the results or because that's that's what I have right now is just you and and Christie. I think what would make the most sense would to be have it posted to someplace publicly on our website so that anybody who would want
to have it uh could then download a PDF probably. Yeah, that's fine. Great. I love that. That's wonderful. Thank you. Okay. Well, thank you. So So you no problem then. Just I see no issues with what you've proposed at all. So any of the other commission? No, sounds great. Okay. And if anyone sound very passive
and Oh, I was just gonna say thank you. Um if anyone has questions, feel free to, you know, just send them to me and um I'm happy to answer those. Great. Thank Thank you so much. Well, thank you. Thanks so much, Pat. All your years
of effort into this. Appreciate it. Great. Okay. Um moving on to our next order of new business. The mayor has authorized the Department of Planning and Development to proceed with the surplus property distribution process for parcel
52-25, Hope Street Municipal Parking Lot. The commission will review the parcel and issue any relevant comments or make a positive recommendation to the Department of Planning and Development by May 15, 2025. This is the information packet we received.
Um, have fun. Thank you. Bye. Um and uh this is the parking lot that's kind of real near the Goodwill, you know, um Hope and Olive. And is it across the street from the
Goodwill almost? I think fire department was grow. Oh, okay. I think it was was it where the temporary fire station was or you think I have a arc map screenshot there's no resource areas. No no it's
been pavement for quite some time. Yeah. So um but I just wanted to yeah illustrate that all the layers are active and nothing showing. So Okay. Excellent. I know there are some rain gardens that were built on Olive Street.
Is that right at the edge of um like uh there's a little office building there. Is this olive right here? Yeah. I think so. Yeah. That's the Salvation Army. And then
yeah, they're open on the other side there. See me pointing there, but they're a little further that way. Oh, so they're down down this Yeah. sort of where there's like um that's the apartment building is kind of just below that transportation center and stuff.
Yeah, the trans transit center is Yeah. So, the development of this lot would not impact the rain gardens. Okay. Yeah. No. Yes. So, um what what I'm looking for is to be able to um provide any
comments you have or provide a motion to um what did I how do I word it? Um, and what is the activity that's proposed? Um, she is it repaving it or? No, it's um I think they're just they want to
sell it, don't they? H um housing development. A good area for that. It is a good area for that. Absolutely. Too much space. Want they want to hear from us by May 15th. So, um it's not a thing that we
necessarily have to make any official statement on tonight, but I think um if anybody disagrees, I think it seems like that would be a appropriate place for development to occur and there there's no negative impact as a result
of that development. And I don't know what the opportunities are, but they certainly could, as they rip up all of that pavement, add some green areas. Um, you know, there are rain gardens in that neighborhood. There
is the opportunity for some um permeability of the soil and uh and it's, you know, there's trees behind there, but this area itself is pretty um it's a it's in Yes. Yeah.
So, Erica. Yeah. Did you have a comment? No, I just No, I was just kind of agreeing that it doesn't seem like it's I mean impact anything that we have to deal with or and that may might actually make it better. Yeah. Yes. I
agree. It would be lovely if they could put in some rain gardens, but I'm not sure that we have that. Well, we they've asked for comments. That's true. That's right. Okay. Certainly put another comment that uh that the state could ignore or
uh yes but the positive recommendation um stance. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um will you make the go through the motion part so I can write in the memo? Yes. Motion part.
So, can we have a motion to make a positive recommendation to the Department of Planning and Development regarding the parcel 52-25 Hope Street Municipal Parking Lot? So, move.
Great. Can I get a second? Whatever you said. Okay. Uh, all right. So, voting to start with you, Erica. I Emily I am also an I. Thank you.
Absolutely. All right. So that's all we have for new business. Uh moving on to old business. Lamp black road parcel R08-11A-0. A road was cut and excavated down the wooded hillside to the flood plane and river below in order to access the Fall River. This was not a permitted
project. Steven Pritchard was heading the project and is in attendance to discuss the progress. Thanks for joining us, Stephen. Hi, Emily. Hi, Elizabeth. Hi, Coach. And hi, Erica. Welcome back. Um, we're finishing the J wrap within the
buffer zone. Uh, actually have two guys. They've been helping. They're over there right now. I left them. They're working hard. So, we've got like the bottom part totally wrapped. And the sidewalls, we have a section, the high part that we're working. But basically, we ultimately we
want to have the whole thing um wrapped even outside the buffers on all the way up because it does work. It does prevent erosion and the sidewalls. So, um and then I'm excited about Ward Smith. He's rock climbing in Arizona.
He's back on the 28th, but I talked to other people that he had on the list of um wetlands engineers. And what was cool was one guy was retired, but he goes, "Ward spent the best." And then another guy, he goes, "I've been retired for 13
years." Oh my gosh. Yeah. We need to update that. Can Can I pause you for just one moment because I want to update the commission because when we left last, we were going to reach out to Mark Stinson, which we did, and he looked at
the photos. He's going through two bigger violations right now. And he said that this wasn't Yeah. It wasn't a crisis. It Okay, great. It was something that um he
recommended Ward uh as a person to call, get over, come up with, you know, give um delineate the resource areas, come up with a plan. Um but he said that it um doesn't need to be rushed can you
know take your time do it right kind of thing but that he wasn't he wasn't like concerned really appreciate that you did reach out to him and that he did comment because we were feeling a little bit worried that this might be something that was getting out of control and we didn't we know you don't want that we
don't want that. It was really great to have a very seasoned eye to give us that feedback that um you know with proper guidance we can handle this. Yes. So it's good. Yes. So well it was it was good to I met him when he was at that one meeting and it was kind of cool to
talk to him. Nicest guy and uh the other thing I remember you said Jessica that you know if it takes Steve till July or August to get this thing wrapped up it's no big deal. But I mean we're not calming down. We Yeah, totally. Yeah, that's what he said, but I know that
your timeline's a totally different time. No, I Well, it's just I'm excited about the growing season and it's it's changed dramatically in the past week once that 87 degree Saturday happened. I mean, stuff popping out of the ground.
It's it's beautiful how the ferns are popping out. But the other thing is um when I saw Justin's picture of the hydra seed after that, that's what we're excited about to have everything growing. So some things have happened
though because it's not anyone's fault. We got to do this right and I'm glad I'm also taught to Ward Smith. He's a very knowledgeable guy. I can't wait till he gets back. But we lost the opportunity. I we were excited because I tied knots.
were a relationship with Greg Harris and um he had an inventory of trees available to him that he knew about in the fall. Those are no longer available because we just didn't have an answer as to when we could take them. So, I'm going to send you a new plan. I also had
the excavator out who is the expert in also erosion control making roads and for ski resorts and stuff. And he came out. So I asked him, I said, "How many trees did you take down?" And he said, "Steve, I don't think it was any more than 10." He goes, "Do you need me to call the commission?" I said, "No, I'll
ask them if they need proof, but so I'm going to base our replanting plan." Misty already redid. It's not as nice as Justin's. I mean, that's pretty detailed, all the the keys and stuff, but Missy did a good job with PowerPoint showing the trees. We're still going to do some ground
cover that's also has wildlife in mind. I mean, Greg Harris knows what attracts like there's a wild blueberry bush he was going to plant and that attracts certain kinds of birds and stuff. Um, and then the other
thing I wanted to say that Jessica, you were concerned the the situation is trees, small ones have a very limited chance of survival. So, Greg Harris talked me into more
established trees and I don't know if you specify it. I haven't read I've read a lot of the info that you fed me, but um in the specified, right? Did you? I don't think so. Are they diameter? Oh,
we did not specify size, but I I think I understand given that it's shaded, it's going to be harder for those smaller So, that's what Greg said, too. He goes, "You want them to have a chance because the sun, you know, is straight up June 21st, but it it loses its power much
quicker in a valley than it does on a the flat land next to Hope and Olive, right?" So, um, he recommends inch and a half to two inch diameter trees. The root balls are I said to him, "Well, we'll just roll them down." He goes, "Steve, they're 300 lb." So Jessica kind
of wins because she goes, "Oh, you got to bring heavy equipment down here." So I just want to make the commission aware. Greg Harris said, "Steve, we do it all the time regardless of the steepness of the slope because we're nowhere near I'm not um minimizing the effect of this. We're like the the water
the spring is 310 ft from the river. There's 160 ft of flood plane. And then we have the 200t buffer zone. It's 150 ft into the buffer zone that wet spot where Kristen saw it in the winter. It
was 50. It was running then. So anyway, my whole point is he said, "We'll go down Gingerly." And I talked to West County. They're the ones that we're going to rent from. They're right there. And he wants a Caterpillar 307, which has 25 pounds per square foot weight.
And it they have rubber coated um tracks. So if you go slow, it doesn't impact the jute. We're going we're going to hydro seed jute on the path bed as well. And then I think you saw them when
you were there. Um I picked up straw rolls from EJ Prescott and you lay that over the grass because that'll hold moisture. But I'm going to talk to the hydra guy. I mean it they say it can germinate within 7 to 10 days. So anyway, we're patiently waiting to meet
Wardsmith. I'll send you the planting schedule or the map. And you know, there might be a couple extras because there's some root ball holes on the side banks. We want to fill those. Interestingly enough, when she mentioned
Willad Delgid, you know, we had in mind hemlock because there's a lot of hemlock in the valley, but I saw some limbs that I was picking up on the flat. It probably has like just clusters. I I thought the government had figured out
or the EPA or somebody figured out a way to get rid of the little aphids. I guess not. No, it's uh I know there are systemic treatments, but at a landscape scale, it's just not viable. We're protected by cold snaps in the winter
and that holds it back. Basically, it kills it enough that the trees aren't dying. Um so the higher elevations are a little more protected because of that because they have colder winters. I see. But it's, you know, given the trends of climate change, eventually
probably the what I've heard is that the hemlock that are on sites that are most suited to it are tending to be more resilient. Um, so that's wetter areas, but then if they're in an area that they're less suited to and it's getting
warmer where they are, that they're more likely to die. So it's it's like a lot of different variables coming together. Well, it seems like, you know, and that's what the excavator said. He says, "Steve, please remember when we in the summertime there was a micro burst.
That's what started the interest in making the trail because I we went over there because several trees fell into the hayfield." So, these same guys that are laying the Jew tonight, they're my buddies. They're contractors, sons, and they have little babies and they need extra money. that I love. So I'm like,
don't don't exaggerate on your hours, guys. Just like you have to catch them, catch them all the time. But anyway, we were over there bucking up the trees and we could not believe, not from the micro bursts, but how many dead trees there are in every forest. Yeah. And um it's
actually really good. It is because the nutrients Yeah. Exactly. But a lot of them are hemlocks. So my whole point of bringing it up is we're going to reanalyze the mix. Yeah. And should we put, you know, new hemlocks in it that could get woolly? That's very wise. And
die. So we might go more beach. Well, the beach. Yeah. There's a le toad that causes. Yeah. Um but I think your point about the multiple stresses on the hemlocks um is is good because that means that given
that this particular site will have those multiple stresses and so reassessing that particular piece um I'm not sure how pervasive that neode has gotten with the beach. Um and I'm not sure do are you It's pretty much it's pretty much everywhere. Yeah. Very
it's very distressing how quickly it's spread. I wouldn't have expected it, but it it's I've seen it in Greenfield, you know. I've seen it up in the hills. It's so gross. So, we might minimize them, too, because there aren't many beach in this forest. You see, believe it or not, there's some huge These guys think
there's sycamore trees, but I never saw trees so big. Yeah, get very big. And they they love the flood plane. They do. Yeah, they're down on the flood plane. There's several of them. Huge. Yeah. But um so anyway, we're going to redo that. But the whole thing hinges on Ward's
input because the spring is something we have to deal with. One comment I want to make just about the number of trees that were taken out. Yes. Were they probably larger mature trees that were removed for the at least some of them? The
majority of the 10 were you know probably over like eight inch diameter or over that. Yeah. So, um I'm sure you're talking to folks who know the dynamics of the forest and all that, but uh the trees that you're putting in,
they are just taking up much less space than the trees that were there before. Exactly. And you know, forest is kind of like a a pyramid, you know, like when there's a disturbance, lots of stuff comes in. Shrubs, trees, it's all mixed
in. And then as the trees get taller, if it's going to stay a forest, then they start excluding other stuff. So you lose those and then you get fewer trees. So the the 10 trees after a disturbance,
which is what you got, you know, man-made disturbance, the you it might make sense to have more trees to take up that same area. Yeah. Because they they've the trees that were taken down had competed with one another. So, all that was left was 10
trees, but they were taking up the space of many more trees. So, I'm not telling you you have to plant 300 trees. But I just wanted to make sure that as you guys are thinking about it, don't it's not apples to apples when you look at a little tree versus a big tree, right? You know, and and but the fact that
you're thinking about doing other shrubs or, you know, anything else that can fill up that space and have the roots be in the soil so that they're doing their work. Um and and and I'd encourage you actually to look at where the blowdowns are. See what's happening over there
because the species that come in are probably the species that would do well where you are. Yeah. And then the one other thing is that I don't know how much deer you've got there, but the deer make this big difference because they just like nibble everything that they like. So what's left is what they don't
like. So I don't know. Um no, I it's going to be fun. I'm we're excited. Well, the the first approach was we looked at the length of the trail and that's where Melissa was wigging out because it was over $30,000, you know, but I'm like, "Honey,
you only live once, but you know, we lost it." But we were like, but the uh because it was going to be a beautiful approach, but the Greg Harris has done trees his whole life and he's like, you got to do like a 25 foot spacing because
you want the canopy to be get the sun it needs because they're going to compete. Only the strong survive, all that kind of stuff. So based on 593 feet, we were staggering them across the path. Okay. different varieties and you know, but the cost came into it because
everything's adding up. The ground cover itself is expensive. I'm paying these guys to help because I want to make sure we meet the growing season. I don't, you know, because Greg even said, "Well, we could wait till fall, but he says we're killing ourselves because you want to get the trees in." You know, it's going
to be the best thing right now. The water's drying up, the groundwater is pretty much gone. The spring's running and we've had droughts. We've been in a drought since last fall. And we still are. You can tell it's dry already. And with the winds, it's drying out fast.
Exactly. Hey, Steve. Um, can you guys hear me? Can I just cut it? This is Missy, Steve's wife. How you doing? Hello, Missy. Hi, Missy. Hi. I just I just want to clarify one thing. So, we're waiting for Ward to get back next week, and we're not exactly sure when he's going to be able to come over.
Hopefully, it'll be soon. But are we waiting for him before we plant any trees? Is that the thought process? Well, that was that was the next topic I was going to bring up because of where you can see Jessica's seen it. You can
see where the spring it's based on that wet area that Kristen saw in the winter photos because it never it never froze. It's like 50°ree spring water, right? You can see the diagonal that that cut because there's still spring water. And
Emily, I think you approached the last time because you don't really know. Yeah. But it's more apparent now that the groundwater is dried up from the thaw. You go downhill from where the water's coming out of the, you know, the bank comes down to the path. You can see
where the water's coming out. So the whole intent of Ward as well as Greg Harris and the excavator is you go downhill where the wetness stops and that swale would where he wanted to put the culvert pipe would be at the lowest
point of that swale. So no matter what moisture came down that the small banks of the swale. So you're sort of creating a bowl basically. Yeah. And then clear water. The spring is spotless. It's like we we stuck our finger in it today and there's actually pressure where it
bubbles up, but the majority of it is still going under the path because it's still there's a natural vein. The ravine is still there. So anyway, the whole point is where Missy and I are going is we don't have the green light to plant yet because you want to hear what Ward
Smith has to say about getting rid of the running water. Correct. So because we could plant trees and keep the swath open where the water bar or the planting. Well, this is not the
planting plan anymore, but this it shows the path and because this is like the last meeting the goal was to get the go-ahad and then it pivoted to Mark Stinson. Right. Right. Right. Right. He said he said um
to call Ward. So So this so Erica, I'll ask you to chime in on this as well, but our experience with this commission is that the planting does not historically require the NOI or other such thing. Uh
we do have to issue like the order of conditions as it relates to that piece. I'm referring back to the property on Oak Hill Road uh with the unauthorized cutting in the resource area or the bucker zone, right? Uh and so given that
we're I think in a similar Yeah. space with this um I don't feel like we have to go through a notice of intent or anything of that nature in order to get the planting done. Um and then I just I
just have one other question. I mean, Ward Smith, notwithstanding, we know we're going to be planting trees. Do we have your permission to bring in the equipment needed to put these big heavy trees in? There's there's been a spring about
here, right? The ravine is still there. It's just, you know, you flatten the hillside. Yeah. So, we would stay away from that. We stay in the trees. We'd start He knows where where touches down to the
flood plane. We come up a few feet on each side. It's all stabilized start both the grass and the trees. So we would stay away from that swat and Greg even said Steve after you
figure out water bar whatever we can hand truck. I have hands ac. So you'd still use Greg like he's not off the table. Even then Greg still Okay. And I asked him if he need armor.
So heavy please. The whole army is just waiting. Hey, Steve. I I couldn't hear you when you were when you stepped away, but what Yeah. Did you guys talk what what's the They're They're still lamenting over the
the equipment, the green light. No, I mean, for I mean, we know we're planting trees. We just don't know when. But when we do plant them, do do we have your permission to use the equipment? They seem fine. Yeah,
if we're careful. Well, I just would like to hear them say that before we do it. Important question, I think, because I just want to know where the jurisdictional areas are because technically when we work
with folks to do plantings or any kind of alteration of soil within the 200 feet from a river, Yeah. then we typically have at the minimum an RDA and then sometimes we say well this is might
um you know there's ways that we we can say where it's not going to have any noticeable effect but then generally we work with people that have an NOI and we haven't done that here because we're working as as Elizabeth said we're working in this you know we're trying to
work with you on it so um do we have a way of overlaying saying that or or can we look at the map just to see because there was some kind of not a delineation but we had a map that showed where the Yeah, the arc map screenshot. Well, Emily, you just brought up a comment
though that um I'm not trying to open any cans of No, not at all. Just trying to be clear. You're you're you're talking 200 feet from the river. Exactly. Which is the resource area. So the where the path touch touches down. I've done it so many times cuz I I
went out um Jessica beat me to the punch talking to Mark Stinson cuz I was out there measuring. You beat me. Oh yeah. With the pictures. You beat me with the pictures cuz I was out there take um measuring from the river bank to cuz
Mark wanted to know. Yeah. And so it's 160 from the river bank. That's right. Where it touches down. So, here's what Greg Harris and I could do just to protect 40 feet up. Yeah. 40 feet. We don't plan anything 40T down. Yeah. If
you stay outside of the resource areas, that's the safe zone. That's the green zone. If you stay and the buffer zone goes further, right? Okay. Can I can I walk through this, please? Please. So, what you're seeing on the screen?
Yeah. Is not accurate, but um so the green teal whatever seafoam green buffer lines is the riverfront area from that thin
um blue stream which is obviously not the width of the river I think this is where we enter the woods approximately for the trail it curves north and it kind of like comes down
right so you have kind of winding and then it crosses Is this that's a buffer zone from the wetland? Ah, it's like a it's like a it's like an intermittent seepy kind of streamy thing that's not very well defined, right? But
it's there and and that's what you've been talking about crossing the the Yes. So the road kind of bleeds over it and then it ends. That's the place where the deposit is. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So that's
kind of this little line. So basically we have the riverfront from the wetland protection act jurisdictional area riverfront and then we have this little CP intermittent situation dries up.
So I mean I I understand to get back to what I'm saying. I would This is great. So if they approve permit, I'll get into two trees down. We'd like to get
something on that touch down. We don't want it like the other Justin's project. Same thing. We don't want the either side to fall because the silk can fall into the center. There's a little bit of return in it. But you can watch
the cell filters out falls. She's seen so I mean but to solidify a bank make it stable. It would be nice to have trees. We could go small balls or I mean smaller root ball
holes and we could keep the cat 307 200 ft from the river. That sounds great. That is that Steve talking, Jessica? I
really can't hear anything. I can't hear anything either. I'm so sorry. I was standing over at the map and I also I also can't see the map so I'm not sure what you're pointing at. I'm sharing. Can you not see it on your screen? I see
the map. That map is very accurate. Yeah, but was Yeah, I see the map. Okay. Was he pointing at thing? But he was pointing at stuff and I couldn't see what he was pointing at and also couldn't hear. Couldn't hear. Basically what he was talking about was
the where the path bleeds into the flood plane. It kind of crosses this intermittent stream that um okay not super well defined but it's there and uh the idea of planting like smaller
plantings down there but I I think that's where Ward would come into play because that is a jurisdictional area. Yeah, it's an intermittent stream. It's also a flood plane. And he'd probably have some pretty critical feedback for
that zone. And then we could discuss that review at the May 13th meeting. But um and no one wants to have to rent equipment twice because they have delivery fees and absolutely blah blah blah. So, but if
you're comfortable with us staying away from that 40 foot mark, we could get all the trees in. Well, I I just have one question and save two for down there. I know it depends on what Word says, but do you want trees below that 40 foot
mark between that 40 foot mark and the bottom of the path? We Well, that's what you didn't hear me talking about because I wasn't at the mic, but they both everybody agrees. I'm I'm sure Erica might as well and Jessica that to stabilize that bottom ramp would be a
good idea with some trees set up then. Well, then I agree with you that I feel like all the trees should go in the same day. You don't want to have two Well, I you want to bring that equipment down there twice. No, the Well, no. The other thing I said that you didn't hear me say is Greg Harris and I could plant
those two on the touchdown ramp by hand. keep that heavy equipment off of that space so you don't have to take the cat down there, you know? I mean, I think about it all the time because the weight and the shovel, you
could have a a it um be compromised and dirt could fall down onto the blue stream. Bringing something like that down into that area would require significantly more um mitigation tactics beyond just getting the planting in there. We would
have to have fencing and and and stabilization and all of that stuff would have to go in in order to be able to go down below that 40 foot mark we've been talking about. So I think avoiding that is going to be in everybody's so tenatively Missy what we can do is I'll talk to Greg Harris. He
wants me to call him. I could call him tonight, but I don't like bother him in the evening. But I'll call him tomorrow morning if we can get the plantings done because I don't know what his schedule is. And the other thing is if you look at nurseries, all of a sudden, you know,
like 3 weeks ago, the lots were were were empty and then one day later all the trees are in and our trees were going to be scooped out of the ground and packed into burlap root balls and delivered. But, you know, the same thing
I I don't know if they're going to come out of the ground, but we there's plenty of trees. Well, we can wait and see what Wart says. Maybe maybe the trees that go down below that 40 foot mark will be small enough that they can be hand planted, you know, without
Yeah, that's what we're going to do with because I have a dolly for root balls, a big one. But and then the ground cover we would still put on the banks down there. All right. So, it sounds like we're on hold till Ward gets back, right? No, we No, we could tenatively plant the
trees up at the top. Yes. Outside of the resource area. Once the trees are in, then the hydro seed guy comes and hydro seeds just like Well, that's what I'm saying is if you're hydro, are you hydro seeding all the way down to the bottom of the jute? Yes, we
are. Well, well, you can't have them hydro seed till all the trees are in. So, we can't I I seems to me like you need to wait. No, the two on the Well, the two trees at the bottom would be handplanted. So, we don't have to take
the esavator down there. So, I know, but what you would do that after the hydro seating? No, we would do it before the hydro seating. We just would take the caterpillar escavator down there. Okay. Can I recap just to make sure?
just to make sure we're all on the same timeline. So, what we're saying, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, is that you have permission to plant down to that 40 foot mark outside of the resource area. Outside of the
resource area and permission to hydro seed, although that would happen later. Ward's going to meet you probably the 28thish. He's going to come up a plan for this. He's going to delineate the resource areas, come up with a plan for
the spring, and potentially mitigation for where the road path pulls out onto the flood. Yes. Yeah. I can't wait to hear what he he comes up with. So, it's a green light on the planting outside resource areas, a green light on the
hydro seeding, and we can't wait to hear what Word has to say for the May 13 and I he told me to call him the tw the morning of the 28th, which is next Monday morning. and I will and he's very responsive and he the only thing he
cannot do cuz he's on the Wayland's um concam I guess he's a chair on their commission on May 13th otherwise he would have been here but Jessica was fine with him generating a report and he'll email it to her and then we'll go
from there. Great. Sounds good. Sounds wonderful. you know, everybody's been that's been on the site working, investigating, everyone has had their two cents and it's like it's got to wait, you know, because they're all like, well, why didn't they put a culver pipe in when they did the final drop to
allow the intermittent? And I'm like, Rocky was the excavator and he said, Steve, that's an intermittent that can make a and it has made a path around the touchdown. So, I mean, water goes
downhill and it's going downhill. So, it's good news is I'm excited to be able to schedule this cuz I'm I get very nervous and it's affecting my sleep because I don't want to lose people because all of a sudden they're going to say I can't make it
now. We're going to have to plant late and so I don't have any grass, you know. I'm excited to get the hillside and the path surface with grass coming up because nothing will stop erosion better than having that the natives. Oh, yes.
Oh, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so everything that goes in has got to be native to Franklin County. Franklin County which we discussed before and I believe that Kristen or one of us has provided you with that list or you have Jessica gave me all the sites and we went on Greg Harris went on the site
himself and then he met with the nursery where he's getting all this. It's a huge nursery. So this just so I'm sure that I've communicated clearly that also applies to the seed the grass seed seat. Yep. It was Virginia Ry and a fescue
from the from the site though. Yes. Yeah, there's 20 grass seeds that are allowed, but um the plants I will send you the list. We're not going to do anything until I I'll communicate with you the minute I talk to Greg Harris for
scheduling. Okay. You know, it may not even happen before May 13th. Okay. You know, but we're we're going to talk to the guys. At least we got the green light. Okay, good. Yeah. I just wanted this meeting to end with clarity. Absolutely. No, it's Well, it is. It's
very clear now because I'm glad we talked about the hemlock. I don't think it's a hot ticket item. I think it's too risky. I agree. And uh there's a lot of oaks. I mean, and we're going to do white and red. So, and then I'm I'm not sure about beach because you said about
and you know what's weird is there issues with the beach. Yeah. It's not a beach likes sandy, you know, so maybe it's not the best site for the beach there. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, when you look at the hills, it's hemlock and oak.
Yeah. Y I don't even see any maples on the hillsides down there. They'd be out of place. They'd probably die off because the oaks would probably tower over and take the light away. So, anyway, thank you very much for your time. It It is I'd like to keep coming
to the meetings because you Well, Justin's project is very similar. Yeah. Yeah. because you have enough on your plates, but when you have the storms that they talked about in 2023, it's affected all river banks. He told us at the site visit that that was a 500year
storm that did that damage, but we're getting hundred-year storms way more frequently now. So, is that what took out Route 2 also? Was that 23? [Music] There he was. Horrible. Yeah, there was
spots up Mohawk Trail, like up route to towards Shelurn Falls. Yeah. On that same storm that they were able to get emergency funding to fix. But you're right, we are getting freak storms because last summer that micro burst, no one believed me. Much more turbulent
weather. Yeah, it's crazy. But thank you. I'm getting it. Yes. Yeah, take care. Okay. Okay.
Let's next uh pesticide application notification letter from Birkshire and Eastern Railroad. Uh we just had some clarifying questions from last time around. Yeah. So, um we left it that I was going to dig in and get the yearly operational plan which I did. It's here
in the drive and I went through it and highlighted um the things that you guys were most concerned about and this is the proper one for Greenfield even. Excellent. Okay. Okay. Good. I highlighted that we
were highlighted. We're listed. Yeah. So, this is here for you to peruse. Um, I reached out to Keith Morris, who is the um, environmental scientist that sent us the letter, and he said that they actually came before us for a f a
fiveyear um, permit to do this. It's because I asked him for the maps because it also at the bottom of this Oh, wait, no, that's in So, here's the um, RDA also in the folder and you scroll down. So, this is the five-year RDA, and it
has the maps of the railroads and the sensitive areas. So, no spray zone, limited spray, water, uh, supply. Anyway, super enlightening, way more than last time. U, so it's there for you all. Excellent. Thank you so
much. Okay. Then next, after that, the Greenfield Wetlands Protection Ordinance Review. Uh, the Greenfield City Council is in the process of reviewing city ordinances. The commission is to discuss in-depth potential updates to recommend. Um, have we made
any further headway on that? I haven't. I just thought it was continuing to be on our Okay. But, um, continue till next time because I think we're supposed to have it by what it end date. End of May. Yeah.
I can pull that information up real quick. Um, but the um changes had been put together and put into a document for everybody to look over. I guess I'm also So, we're still supposed to send comments or questions
or or ideas to Jessica? Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. What's my role in this ordinance review? Probably putting together our feedback. Okay. So, I sent them to you. You made a document in the folder. Uh-huh. Um,
Chris sent a link to the enforcement manual and I was trying to remember whether that was relating to this because some of the elements on the enforcement part we were trying to grapple with, make sure they were correct in terms of the $500 a day versus $300 a day. So, I I'll I'll read
that and make sure that we're on and also maybe reach out to the folks who did that that panel. Okay. Um, trying to remember what else we were concerned about. or you had most of them were pretty straightforward and we seemed pretty much in accord we don't want to
have it bey or like Kristen looked at it and said yeah this this is out of date even for when it seems like it should have been you know so we want to update those references and then say or successor or as amended and so once all that is finalized
do I give it to you and you respond to the person who wrote you the email in the first place or do I Yeah, why don't you why don't you send it to me and then I will move it along to uh councelor Gulib who had originally reached out to me and I will make sure that I include
Travis and Kristen in that because we were part of the original. So yeah. Okay. Okay, great. Cool. Um May 23. Okay. So we have a little more time, right? But I would I would say uh we probably want to have it. Yeah. So I'll work on that by the next meeting. Sure.
Okay. and we have access to it so we can take a look and make any further comments. Yes. Trying to research. Can I just can I ask about the the the fees or we are just putting everything on hold for now?
the fees I think um if and I can resend this along to you once I figure out where I I'd love to hear your question about the fees Erica. Well, I was just I was just I was just because I I I was remembering what you had said and then there's a there's a whole section
um about from the recreation side and but it also talks about it's the recreation side but it's on conservation land and you know how if you do this infraction you get a fine you do that in fraction it's I don't know $50 the first time and $100 the second time and but
does that all go to that because it's under the recreation even though it's a conservation Where? Where is that? What? This was in this was in um Sorry. Um I was just looking at the
wetlands section, I think. Okay. Um are you talking about the park and wrecks? Parks and wreck one. Yeah. Yes. Yes. That's what I'm saying. It was in the parks and wreck, but it was but it was talking about conservation
conservation land. Yes. So that was I brought that up last meeting um when I was talking about um the director of parks and rec Christy Moore had recommended separating conservation land. That's right. Yeah. So that's
right. that was her that's I wanted to inform you guys that that was going to be one of her recommendations. Yeah. Um and just to not necessarily change anything with the conservation verbiage, but just to remove it from the parks and
facility category and have it have its own category. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's that's I mean I saw the notation about separating it out. Um and then I just but then I was just thinking like I said it was you know since it was under parks and wreck I'm like well if there are
actual fines on our property who gets do we ever see the money or and who and who and who enforce and who enforces that stuff is that up to us again or is that you know is parks and recolation and
penalties. So there's a whole schedule for um fees for violations on wreck land and since we're rec we're were mentioned in there. Yeah. Then it makes it confusing. It does. Which do we use? Right. Okay. That was where I was
for sure. But they're going to be taking care of making that there's the applications. Um but they're making that suggestion themselves. Yeah. From their perspectives. So, we want to make sure that any language that's currently in
the wrecks the parks and wreck section um like Jessica said either gets its own section or is put in the wetland protection or we don't want to lose anything but also we don't want to
um you know we don't we don't want to add a whole another section if we don't need to. So I guess I guess it's you know the wetland protection that's about our jurisdictional responsibility right of protecting the land to make sure that it's not damaged or harmed and then
there's the separate issue of conservation land and how is it used. Yeah. So yeah it sounds like right now it's just kind of thrown into parks and wreck. Yeah. And so that seems like it would require more thought on our our part. Um yeah, to think about what the
the various sections of that would be in parallel to the parks and wreck. Right. And then Yes, exactly, Erica. Who the heck enforces that? Right. Well, because it's because it's not it's not really it's not jurisdictional
necessarily. It's just but it's but it's conservation land that Yeah. Right. Okay. which so technically we're the guardians of it. It's under right our ownership on behalf of the town. So we
would need to be uh empowered to um monitor it and enforce it and then and we probably do want a fee structure if you know similar to whatever parks directed and which is different from the jurisdictional fees and the enforcement
order uh violation fees that are in the wetland section, right? Right. Because it was much it was much less. It was like I said like it was like $50 the first time and you know $100 the next time. So for the next meeting I can I know I
uploaded Christiey's documents but I can go through and kind of create our se our proposed separate section to mirror the format and take the verbiage
and just highlight what I think needs changing because it doesn't make sense for us and then we could go through it the next meeting. That sounds great. Okay. Thank you. Cool. Um, conservation property maintenance improvement and priorities. Review Grizzled maintenance priorities
and next steps. So, this is exciting. I reached out to DPW with the pictures and the map with the down trees and they put in a work order and they're gonna go do it. Yay. I know. Progress. Fabulous.
Um, thank you. And DPW. I know. They were so on it, too. It just was like 24 hours. They're like, "We're quarters in." Oh, that's awesome. Um, also Emily reached out to Lincoln and he is going to come to our next
meeting and talk about Wonderful. We've been thinking about as well. So, it was all good good timing. Um, so then we'll just to be continued for the next meeting about the next steps. Awesome. Um, and just as far as on the
conservation land tip, I have one other um I got an email today from a resident and um he goes hiking on what is the name of
the conservation property that we manage. It's called Canada Hill Renfruit. Um he said that is um
trash that's dumped. And here I can share I'll share my screen. Um I don't know who deals with this. I don't know who who deals with this.
So, this is behind the tire um there's like a tire business at the base of that hill and I think there's some kind of
um residents. Yeah, there's like dirty diapers and the dirt I think there have been some squatters up there at different times. Yep. He he said that that was the case and it's like the it's gross.
Mhm. Um so I don't know even like what this like who who addresses this kind of stuff? Well, usually but does DPW like go and pick up dump sites on city land? They didn't say they did that. They said
they maintain trails. Okay. Um, we could ask them, but um, what you went through and figured out what the different fund bank accounts were for, right? And one of them was for the maintenance of properties, right?
Um, are there specific properties and that that particular property doesn't have many land? That sounds like a um organized volunteer workday kind of a thing. Yeah. Um, which I know it's a problem because there's I mean it's
going to be a reoccurring issue. People are like, "Right." Oh, yeah. Because it's like a biohazard. Yes. The diapers. Yeah. Well, the the the green or the river cleanup deals with things of that nature. And so it might be worth reaching out to uh the conservancy, the
river conservancy to see how they organize and deal with all of that stuff. But I think it's going to be a grassroots effort to get that cleaned up. And honestly, it it begs the question of some of the other properties that are lesser um accessed and what those look like. But I think that that's one of those things that we just got to
go property by property and just Yeah. figure out what the issues are. Y So, um this is the is that a map of the Yeah, this is a trail map. Where is it located? Huh? So, here's Bridge
Street. Does that even help you? I thought there was Is that Is that Meridian down there? Meridian crossing the Turner spells road. Turner Spells. Oh, Turner spells road. Okay. Okay. This is Yeah, this is up near on the ridge kind of. It is on the ridge. So, that
was kind of what I was getting at is that I don't Would the river conservancy do ridge stuff? No, but they might have um advice as to how to address especially dealing with biohazard because I know with the river stuff they like they find needles and they find all kinds and so they have experience with
it and so they might be able to kind of guide us as to how best to deal with this type of a situation and yeah it's definitely not their Bailey wick but they they've got experience with it. I think this is the tire place. This building right here. Or like these two maybe. And that's what launch tire. Is
that what that would be? Yeah, that's what's down. Is that French King? No, that usually it's Bridge Street. Yeah, but it's it's I'm not sure what that because there is no Bridge Street. I'm not sure what that's talking about. Yeah, I thought it's French King Highway. It is. I know.
That's actually you guys are right because I looked at it on the map before and then when I just brought this up I'm like Bridge Street. Yeah. Yeah. That's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the highway. French King Highway. Okay.
And W. That's just that weird little off shoot there. Yeah. [Music] So, this kills me because you you know I I move from Portland where this is like an issue that was really out of hand.
It's just the trash can get so bad and um I don't know how like I I would hate for that to get carried away and you know he his concern was that you know so many people use those trails and Yes. Yes. It's a it's a health issue. Do
you know can you sort of estimate where it is with your cursor? So, let me just look at this um email again. As reported, campers have recently dumped trash in the area behind lodge tower
lodge tire on the ridge. So, this is the lodge tire and then here's some contour lines. So, maybe like here. Yeah. Um, the discarded bags have been ripped open by wildlife
and being blown by the winds. So, yeah. And I do imagine this is a pretty popular. So I'm curious though that um it looks like there's access on the road, but I thought that there was a private
property between the public land on the ridge over there because there's always signs that say no trespassing right here. So I didn't I didn't think there was a rightway that that got to the road there. Yeah, I did not make this map.
Travis Smith. Um, but very interesting. He said maybe it's further up the road because probably what I'm thinking of is down at that pork. So he said um that recently it's been posted as a conservation area in the Canada Hill one
lunch. I don't know if I'm saying that right. It's okay. I don't road neighborhood. So maybe this this is where that sign interesting. Um it was years back that but I you know we walked through there once and then months later
we went back and there was all these signs that said no trespassing. Yeah. I I'll like go check it out. Um but I just wasn't sure. I mean this can't be like the first time there's been dumping and I just didn't know if there was a process. Eric's out of town
this week, so yeah. No, I don't I have no experience with that, but I my guess is that it's a get it done yourself kind of deal. Yeah. Okay. Okay. But checking with Eric is probably Yeah. So, he's not back until next week. So,
Yep. Well, I think those bags were probably there for quite a while. So, nothing's going to change in the next week or two now. Oh, Stephanie, you've got a hand up. Hi. Yes, Stephanie. Too close. I just wanted to interject that um when my
partner and I cleaned the river banks over by the Green River after the flood behind Greenfield Gardens, what the DPW said to us was they would provide a bunch of blue bags and stuff for us to be able to pick it up. And then once we
got to a centralized location where they could reach us, we just gave them a call and they just came and picked it all up for us cuz there was a lot of bit, you know, a lot of it. So maybe, you know, it really is just kind of a grassroots effort because when we were looking for help after um the Green River flooded
over by Cole Raiden Street, it was like there is no help. So we like, okay, we'll just do it ourselves. So um yeah, that's kind of the thing. Thank you. Yeah. and thank you for doing that. Yes. Okay. So, we'll look into it a bit and
see what we can muster up in terms of help and effort. Yes. And I do recall, I don't know if I already said this or not, but I do recall that the mayor had expressed interest in organizing a cleanup effort to bring various um city groups together in a
more socialesque uh manner. And this could be a potential opportunity for such a thing. Awesome. We can contribute our garbage to the effort. We got trash for you.
Yeah, I think that's Friday. Frank Lantress that I work for um celebrates Earth Day now by doing a cleanup on one of the properties that we own. So that's where I was earlier today. And you know, it's it it is it does feel good to get out there and
clean up. Yes. Excellent. All right. Well, thank you for that, Stephanie. Uh, looks like enforcement updates or is that just space holder? Yeah, they don't they're just there. They live there. There they live there, unfortunately.
Um, all right. Well, that seems to be it then. [Music] Um, yeah. Wonderful. So, what we're going to do is
uh establish that our next meeting is going to be on May 13, 2025 at 6:30 p.m. Uh, and what is the thing that we do to shut this whole thing up now? Motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjourn. Yes. Can Can
I get a motion? All right. Uh, let's see. Erica, hi. Emily, hi. I am also an I. I will see everyone on uh May 13. Thank you all for coming.
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