##VIDEO ID:qDZPykFZKfs## this meeting is now started and being recorded um I uh because this is the reorganizational meeting I will open it up and call it to order um this meeting is being recorded by greenfield Community energy and Technology if any other persons present are doing the same you must notify the chairperson at this time there's only one participant me so no one else if they are they're being very about it uh so uh we will first vote for the chair then the vice chair and then secretary so I open the floor for nominations for chair I nominate Tim frell since he's the only person who knows Robert SCH order n okay only Commissioners vote obviously so please uh vote by uh all those those in favor okay that's unanimous Tim you are now the chair and you take over the meeting do we have a nomination for vice chair who's the vice chair now oh Jen I nominate are there any other please say that okay now technically we don't have a secretary technically we haven't voted on one right we're all leaving if you don't yeah so do we have a nomination for secretary I nominate all in favor please say I that was I okay um I hope you got the revised minutes they're here I got my notes mixed up because I can't take notes and do the meeting at the same time so um the the revised ones are R is there any is there a motion to accept the minutes any seconded any changes additions subtractions nothing all in fav please say I okay public comment we have no public no so we'll open the public hearing at 622 and we'll close it at 622 well that's these are minutes whatever time it is now 65 um okay so we have new business communication plan discussion sorry you yourself out of well I was hoping to but I don't thank um this was just going to be a discussion you guys had asked for some time to discuss so I mean at at this point um we are in the process of getting some inexpensive new software the current version of the website is pretty difficult to use and we're actually working internally with customer service to just make it easier to find things on the website to uh make it easier to update it it's just hard than it should be at the moment um we do not have much of a Facebook presence I would like to hear people's thoughts on that I would will state um that uh we have mostly turned off comments when we post because it's the same small group of people who troll everything so I I can't say I'm hugely in favor of expanding our our Facebook presence um we talk about specifics in terms of our reach we just talked about a Welden meeting and getting with Domenica to make sure that we're in a point where we can do that but I think you have a sense of what we're doing now my I my sense was you guys were talk about you know I had sent that email about possibly doing my turn or you know even if it was not um a my turn and it was something more um prevalent like a um half page ad in the recorder uh that you know showing basically what a my turn is but we control it when it gets in we know that it gets in we know it doesn't get changed C DET or anything like that from from a uh from anyone at the recorder because we paid for it um and um but still have the same talking about all those things that that we see on Facebook or just here in the public like why isn't it in this part of Greenfield why didn't you do this why haven't you done this and rather than reacting to it kind of laying it out there because you know I've kind of felt like it would have been nice to have the recorder um through a story on all the good things that g said has been able to accomplish running an internet company from scratch to starting but that hasn't happened and I don't expect it to um so you know kind of controlling that narrative and basically writing what would be a my turn but you're not you know you're not um there's no stipulations on how many words it can be or when it's going to get in or okay what day it's going to be in because there are days that are read more than other days um that type of thing so that's kind of where I was I feel like we have the basis for that because you did some the kind of Doc when we were in a lot of the back and forth with the counselors and mayor Stu so that was kind of a lot of the point I think you're talking about y i i want to say that I really liked that you like you know you had a little list and I thought it made perfect sense and so if we could and I didn't print them out unfortunately but there's a thank you Kathy there there's a lot of confusion there's a lot of contention um so that thinking about addressing the issues up front factually people that I talk to are not watching the YouTube no they have no idea about what previous meetings they don't even show up for current ones meetings and they're right and so they're just out of the loop and so they go a little crazy because I never responded on Facebook but it's like oh my God the rates are going up oh my gosh I don't understand so if we could just try to clear up some of the basic confusion in in this meeting if we don't do it in this meeting then maybe a subcommittee and then but what I want to say also is and then I'll be quiet but I thought also we were going to try to put something clear as a bell on our website if they can if they could do that if they could get on there and say oh you know so um because that contentious stuff is makes me nause about everything in Greenfield not just G set so it's our job I feel to clarify and when people do hear it just like counselors you know when they hear it and they say oh I didn't know that and you know that could go for pretty much everything with government and that's not a Greenville government thing that's just in general but either you know the combination of something like that and then as the website gets um you know changes there frequently ask questions I know hey we know that we're you know we're going to be possibly looking for a bond uh and that would be voted by the council everybody who doesn't have gset will think that they're paying for that even though we've said over and over and over and over and over the fee user fees paid for it right that will get missed and the recorder won't write it because that's just the way it works so those types of things would be important to kind of get that out there you know I tell people who live you know on in North Greenfield where I live we course we want to we want to be in every house there is there's no reason for us not to be other than or there are many reasons none of which are ours yeah why we're not yeah so trying to address those things so I don't know I was just going to ask you what you say that things that people are finding contentious that they talk to you about can you list those out for us probably all those things that I mean ARA why is it allowable use and how has it been used um reminding people that everybody's supposed to have known it's a to me it's just an education thing anyway um it would take five years for G set to get to profitability State stage right um the percentage of households who can already access uh you know like that's that's what it is and because I have said just call them off call the office right you got the phone number call them up speak with anybody over here get your questions and they don't they just want to complain right and they feel like they're not in the not well it's we can only do so much but we can do a better job of pointing them places so they yeah I think people in general like to complain and they're not solving a problem they're part of the problem or they're not or we're the problem and we haven't explained it enough enough because I I'm tired of saying get on YouTube to people right and it probably took Decades of course we weren't here and there was no social media but decades for people to understand that live in North Greenfield using that as an example again you don't have sewer right you're never going to have sewer you don't pay for it either right um it's the same thing G said you don't have it you're not paying for it but we did well you voted for that and actually you only paid for it until you said it was profitable and now we pay it the users pay it and I think when we talk about how many people are covered it is important to be really clear that we really are thought no one would even think of saying I'm building a new building and if you want me to take Greenfield water you have to pay for all the pipes in my building that's exactly what people say about Gap well you should just do it like no no other infrastructure does that or ever has and in fact we you know we use grants at places like the Welden and if we can find grants to do that of course we will and we'll build out a network in the welding that we own because it has to be owned by us but it isn't common practice to say well it's your job to wire up all these buildings and there we also need to tell people that there are private building owners because these are private buildings who have been very clear with us mostly to burn that they do not want us there and I keep hearing how come you're not in the Millhouse it's not for lack of asking and getting in tou they've said no we don't want you and there is no you know Municipal security badge that I can Flash and say we're coming way because it's their building and if they don't want it we can't go in and I have a question about that because I'm in touch with two people in birkshire departments okay right so I tried to reach one this afternoon you'll probably call me back tomorrow so say the manager says no say you have a manager and this is not necessarily that place say you have a manager they don't answer phone calls they don't return they don't do email they're not they're not interested does it make sense for them to try to go to Joe Comerford to try to go to some other people and say could you put a little pressure on if you're underserved or unserved or whatever it might be you know and they're like constantly being told no maybe outside forces like we had called in Senator Mary remember so there might be somebody else besides us besides the people living there but they somebody has to start somewhere and I think it's a customer service thing to say we'd like to help you right now our hands are tied and then it's up to us to possibly advocate some way or shape or another you know unless Joe conord says I'm sorry that's not my purview in which case forget it right I think we can point people in that direction because people can always advocate for themselves and it's perfectly appropriate for us to say Hey you know you could contact your local representative or you could contact your tenants Association or whatever they happen to have I think going much beyond that is something I would be a little uncomfortable with but we can say go talk to them because there are certain you brought up the birkshire apartments it's it it's a little bit like the Welden and that there are no chases in that building there's no way to get through the walls are very thick and it's just a building that is I've said it for a long time now buildings like that are about 30 times as expensive as more you know traditional residential buildings like duplexes and it is not there's a a great program called residen City that everyone should go look at if you look at where people live and if you look at where um different socioeconomic strit lives even at its most generous interpretation only about 13 to 18% of housing in Greenfield is in buildings like that is in buildings like the welon the overwhelming majority of people at live in at different socioeconomics what we have here in town is a lot of duplexes and a lot of triplexes one to four right there are there are places like Oak courts which we covered there are places like Elm Terrace which we cover we don't cover Greenfield towers for example because they've said no they've said you have to pay for everything if you want to come in here we don't cover the Millhouse it's yeah it's the highrise yeah its name is actually GRE build so they don't want it either or they're they're fine but if we pay for everything well they so everybody is unique too so Berkshire Apartments I mean if anybody wants to call from Berkshire Apartments we can have a conversation about what we've done their management is happy to work with us so um but again it goes down to cost it also the residential retrofit when that came about I contacted them and they said this would be a great opportunity for you to get fiber into your building for free um we talked about it they didn't think that their building qualified um based on the socioeconomic um status of everybody that live there right so there with grants there is uh different ones have different stipulation so they couldn't qualify for that so somebody does need to go in there and upgrade infrastructure or put new infrastructure it costs a lot of money to do that we looked at their conduits there is no conduits literally there's direct burial underneath that big huge brick building so getting into that building alone is expensive and then building out in that building is even more expensive so I just had by coincidence somebody from Berkshire Apartments talked to me today and I said pretty much that yeah can we just can uh this is a good conversation but as far as the new communication yeah we're sidetracking let do we want to do something as far as writing something up sure for publication to be determined I do because I don't trust but my turn I mean unless you got a connection with getting stuffed in there on a steady basis every and and you know even this this article and some of this stuff I think I am in favor of something that we designed well I'd like to not give them the money i' rather do that yeah yeah I'd rather do that than have it she do have page these days the last I haven't bought one in a while and I've never bought to my business but the last time was like 800 bucks but it could be 800 to ,000 a lot of people don't even read it that say they do eEdition more than they actually do the paper so how many people are you actually well if you read I mean if you like if I read the paper I read it on my phone but I read it like looks like the paper so I see the ads I don't think a lot of people I don't think that's because if you read it just the other way you get it the next day other than your two free articles no I mean I have access to it as well but I don't read the whole thing there's no perfect way other than a mailer to 10,000 households I mean we could submit it as as a my turn and publish it as submitted on our website on Facebook and share it and be like they'll print what they print and then if we don't like that we could take out an ad see happens we start that that's um I am happy to try to synthesize what I hear tonight and get a rough yeah why we question is what people think istim before um the capital budget when is that uh April April usually okay to soonish okay so in March okay yeah next February or March oh with the turn you could write it and it could be weeks before it gets in too depending on how many they've got Y what else is but a clarification of what we do and who we are is different than an advertisement in my head like that's too different yeah no no I'm saying only using ad because that's paying for it like it's ad but you know just like when you know you see people that will take a full page ads in the New York Times but it's not really in it promoting us as far as like hey come check us out here's what I would say you guys can't have a group email talk about topics you think are appropriate but each of you can send to me what you think the most important topics are on your own I can put them together and put them in a rough r that I show to Tim Y and I really want to encourage you all to do that because as with everything there's five of you you're probably not going to be perfectly in lock step with what you think is the most important it's good that that's true true but I'd like to hear from each of you doesn't have to be long we we kind of have an understanding of it if you just indicate areas that you think are the most important for you guys that you think needs to be addressed or you think is a particular issue please just write that to me so I can take that into account what I'm putting together yeah yes some of you have already done it moment but I yeah however however I think that's I think it would be good if there was a way for us to socialize it draft maybe if it's possible by our next meeting we have to bring it to our next yeah that would be great and everybody kind of look at that be like this isn't really quite capturing the spirit or whatever so if that's a reasonable goal to set for the next meeting the next meeting is yeah it's only two weeks away so sorry it's okay that's fine that's not a problem okay thank you all right okay um so we can go back to talking about was there anything else on the Birch department or why no I I think you can talk what would help me most is not me talking to you it's you talking to me now about what you think the tone the tenor the focus of that kind of communication would be if you think there's anything beyond a my turn there are we are a small group and we don't have a huge budget for it but we have some you talked about you know direct mail at or you did we actually do fair amount of that or it's really just a marketing but we could do an informational mailing to people to we wouldn't do it there's a companies we would work with to go to it to our customers yeah y I think that's the most powerful constituency to reach I mean there people who are always going to be upset if they don't have it and then they'll find reasons to be mad about it but I think if we can make sure that everybody who has it has a firm understanding that's that's very powerful um and I think I I was just jotting down in this some of the things I think it's a great point to really start with an introduction of like what is this thing who are they you know this is your internet and so and then kind of going on to you know it it depends how much we want to get the weeds on things but I think you know at the risk of um exhausting people I think more information you know is better so and then I think and then I think probably you know then like providing some tools for people to learn more you know not trying to be totally exhaustive but just saying like on you know you can look on gctv and meetings are recorded and you can you know not saying that that's that's people have to do that but want more right so you do know under um board meeting minutes and agendas there's now up links to every it's in a grid for every month and you can click on link that will take you directly to the video that will take you directly to the agenda now that you've uh approved the minutes for December tomorrow I will put those up too so for the last year or so we will have every agenda every set of minutes and a video once I think we started in was either April or or may I can't remember when we first started doing it um um th those are available on the website too we can talk about featuring them more in a different way too but that is something that we have been doing can I ask before we move on on Greenfield Gardens does that in down the pike another branch pability and connectivity So Greenfield Gardens is all underground right gr it they don't own their conduit if conduit do it is put in by Verizon or comcast or other people we can't use it unless we are able with some people we were able to negotiate passage it's expensive and it it is not always workable so and my the issue with Greenfield Gardens is not only is it underground a lot of it's underneath black top and if you have to tear up black top to put your own in it gets just tremendously expensive had a grant and then the grant expired we had some kind of funding because I was at that meeting and then hit the granite and they couldn't do this and they couldn't do that no that was lighten Woods not right that was lighten Woods is that we did have cd yes it is and it's the same situation generally speaking when projects like that are developed the developers don't want to pay for the conduit so they say common in place conduit and people do because then they can deny other people use of it so and once things like that are sealed up lien Woods in particular was difficult because it's literally built on a rock shelf you don't go down more than a couple of inches and you hit rock so that would be just astronomically expensive to try to um you know dig through you would literally heavy machinery and you'd have to open up a trench all the way down that driveway all the way around all of those buildings so that's a really difficult place to get to because it's fairely remote and every bit of that going out you would be chiseling into rock to lay so and there's a problem in the poles correct yes the poles are not because they're decorative light posts they're not utility poles they're not strong enough to hold up um the radios we would have been able to go down but it it just the tolerances weren't it wouldn't be safe so it's a particularly difficult place to get to for us thanks um you have the budget after executive sessions reason not we're going to review the budget in an executive session but votes for approval of budgets must must be public must be public yeah right but I want to go into detail in the executive session um I think a point burn makes off and which is true is if you actually go to open checkbook there are a number of vendors that for us are just listed as gset vendor because we are in a unique position where we have competition who would like to know the particulars of what we're doing and that is we really do have a need to keep certain information proprietary um so we can talk about that in an executive session and then we can come out and vote the total of the budget which is what has to be voted in public so I if people have more they want to talk about the communications plan or discussion for they can do that now if we go into executive session I will pause recording we will have to take minutes in the executive session and then we can come out but we can only come out to vote on the budget for next year and then adjourn that's the only so if you have any other business that would be now would be the time to bring it up I think I have one tell me if well this has to do with what are we asking people to um pay the the charge in a different manner the fin charge versus I was wondering how that went well we actually we had a a order and a computer problem essentially our our ticketing and billing system was consistently billing incorrectly by one penny it was a rounding issue in the software only on the auto pays everybody body else did so it's actually we will be sending out tomorrow a reminder that for some people it won't start until next month because we had to work uh in on the back end they get the credit for fixing that because it was like what is going on and you can't have hundreds and hundreds of invoices that Happ or a penny that you have to manually reconcile would have a nightmare so for autoaid people that won't start until the 1st of February but I will say um we've had a lot of people switch over to eek so um I was actually thankful that we've kind of slowed it because it allowed people to switch over we also um you know we send emails and let people know and every time somebody would call or still is calling and and paying with a credit card we'd let them know that we will be doing this um and quite a few people said how much is it and I said 2.3% that will be about this on your bill and they're like just do it it's fine so in verbal conversations we not getting the same push back that we have seen on Facebook um we've even had comments in the communication with our customers that say this is crazy it's totally fine we all get it right so um the understanding is there um I haven't had one person yell at me about the 2.3% at all um and I would be the one that would take that is that what they call AC um a is e Che so that's if you switch over to that then you will not be build the 2.3% um convenience feed only if you use the credit card the 2 and that is not we don't profit from that at all it is all passed 100% through to the credit card processing it's actually illegal in Massachusetts for us too it is legal because we are and there's uh a lot of literature people are interested um but if you're just passing through a third- party processing cost it's perfectly appropriate and acceptable they do it on the city side and have for years uh it's just recently those fees have been going up and up and up and it got to be a sizable enough amount that we had to do something about it okay uh so I would accept the motion for Gesa to go to Executive session G will vote to enter executive session for reason number 10 discuss trade SE gr or confidential competitive sensitive or other Pro proprietary information is that someone so mve second and we do have to do a okay yes yes yes okay we are back back do we have a motion to accept the fiscal year 2026 budg second all in favor I I opposed okay motion carried okay and we're still on our second Tuesday of the month so you will get that and can I have these back question okay right H okay you can give it to me later okay okay okay all right so then if I have those back the only thing left to do is joury yeah second hi thank you very much --------- ##VIDEO ID:JqZ4ywEnqes## hello everyone thank you for joining us both the folks who are in the room and those of you on Zoom uh this meeting is being recorded by the Conservation Commission if any other persons present are doing the same you must notify the chairperson at this time at this time uh 6:30 p.m uh January 28th I would like to call to order this meeting of the Greenfield Conservation Commission on Zoom members present include Christen McDon Emily boss and in person there is myself Elizabeth garal eror and Jessica seagull conservation agent given that we're hybrid we're doing a hybrid roll call um so let's go ahead and first order of business is to approve the meeting from last or the minutes rather excuse me from last meeting uh can I get a a motion for that please I will make a motion to approve the meeting minutes from January 15 2025 second okay um do we have any issues concerns around those minutes I did not see anything okay all right so then we'll vote to accept the minutes starting with Emily I Kristen I I and I'm also an i a meeting minutes have been accepted okay moving right along we have a public meeting today continued from January 14 2025 request for determination request for determination of applicability uh construction of two pre-fabricated metal buildings and parking at 001 Adams road map r05 lot 28a the applicant requested to continue because they need more time to determine if they want to move forward with the project okay so we will continue are we looking for a motion to continue that or do we need uh yeah yeah so the motion will be uh to continue the um uh request for determination for 001 Adams Road to the next meeting which will be on February 11th could we have a motion I will motion to continue that uh markon uh CH uh they know be why keep the RDA in place so my understanding is they are still they currently do not own the property uh they are waiting to do they're waiting to submit an noi to determine if they're going to be able to use the property but they currently actually I should let you explain this okay so um they have a project that they want to do and they're looking at this piece of land but they're trying to figure out what steps they're going to have to take um and if what financial implications those steps have to determine whether or not they want to move forward with the project so they didn't want to go right into an noi because that costs money so they wanted to do an RDA to figure out one if they needed to submit an noi and then to what kind of financial costs that would have and so they last meeting we did determine that they need to do an noi but they needed to consult um a wetland scientist uh not only for delineation but to understand the performance standards that would have to happen and what and then what financial implications those would have so they're in the process of finding um a consultant and they've just haven't been getting back to them it's only been two weeks so um yeah did they give a copy of your request for determination to the current moment yes so technically that's all I talk about you know there is nothing in the regulations that allows the commission to continue where request for determination be that as it may it happens all the time both sides okay so not something DP get involved with the typically you know they're supposed to give you enough information meeting so you can CL an issue at that time but if you want to continue the African and GRE continue God bless you so given that we've already determined that we would need to be involved in any potential future construction and the only thing that we would then be interested in in terms of technicalities would be the noi when that point comes um do we still need to be involved in their process um as it relates to the RDA in any way because given that they haven't bought the property do you know do you know what I mean like issuing a determination and then they can do with it what they well I I had heard that um I think Kristen mentioned something like they would be required to go through the noi if friend yeah so it would require I mean so you're not I don't know why they want to continue it because the answer is going to be the same last two weeks ago tonight or two weeks from now same answer I think the question was if they were going to resend it or resend it or um like accept a positive determination because there was questions around if a positive determination would require them to submit an noi um like versus give them the option they don't want to subm for years that's fine okay all all the all the positive determination is saying is if you want to continue with this project you have to file doesn't say you shall file it tomorrow right so they have the option to pursue it or not yes okay thank you I I I just want to say um first of all Mark welcome so nice that you're here we're having a hard time hearing you I don't know if we have oh they do have a that are speakers yep do you want to push the um button there yep and then me now give it a second we can hear you better okay hear me now yep oh way better okay all right hi Christian hi thank you so much for coming okay so thank you for clarifying that does the commission have any other questions or issues or points that they would like to bring up as it relates to this particular project I can't see Emily NOP okay uh hearing none um given that we um that the applicant is not present and has requested that we actually do um continue continue the RDA until our next meeting meeting um I think that we will move forward with that particular um course of action but I do appreciate your uh letting us know um how that typically or how that can go in the future does they do they have be present for us to make a ruling do they have to be present for us to make the ruling around the RDA no thank you just we just inform them you know over the week and then and they can right so um if if you would be Jessica willing to reach out to them and let them know that they don't have to a be present for the ruling of the RDA and they want to resend it and or whatever however they choose to go with that okay and then if they want to bring the noi to us in the future that's great and we'll be here to that yeah that's great cool okay um so so we had did we have a motion to move on from this particular I think Kristen made a motion back few minutes ago so second did you make a motion yep okay EXC got a second and so let's get a vote um I'm gonna go ahead and go with the folks online again Emily hi Kristen hi Erica I I am also an i motion passes that is all we have for our um public meeting on the agenda for today uh so at this point I would like to have a motion to close the public meeting portion of tonight's agenda believe that's how this goes and then we move on to our new business old business no you don't have to do that you don't want to no because that ends everything okay so all you're doing is just next item on the agenda next it thank you okay so our next is a request for determination extension from 105 Mohawk tril um do we have here to yeah all this okay yep can you hear me uh this is Chris started uh on behalf of um the applicant um the engineer um so what we're here to do is um right now you're I believe we have until March 1st of this year to to complete construction and the plantings um we do have a Contractor on board for to do the work it's AF Mallet out of Athol um unfortunately right now the asphalt plants are closed and trying to plant do plantings per the plan um in the rain Gardens is going to be a bit of an issue being that it's uh completely frozen out there so we would be hopefully requesting an extension just to get us to June 30th um that would give us time for the ground to thaw get the plants in the actually planted and hopefully taking um so you folks can then do an inspection and um get this project completed that's what we're here to request Mark sson I I Mark again I emailed uh Jessica information on the original order that I found it was recorded but I didn't find any of the extensions as having been recorded at the registry so the determination can neither be extended nor amended so it's an improper motion however due to the governor's signature of that whatever she did back in November like in order of conditions I saw that determinations are extended for another two years as well so you can't issue an extension for determination but the governor in this isance because of the permit extension act that mimics what was done in 2010 2012 it's automatically extended for an additional two years so there's a covid talling extension that you're awarded because your permit was issued the 462 days but this is something else this is something the governor signed massachusetts's wonderful Act of 2024 whatever they call it it was like an economic yeah that's it incentive to extend everything so if the determination was valid between January 1 2023 and January 20 January 1 2025 orders determinations automatically extended for an additional two years which I see you caught on all the outstanding orders which is great so it also applies to determinations so you don't have to do anything in fact you can't do anything gotcha so the governor um has taken this out of our hands for the time being and allowed the extension regardless of yeah yeah okay which is what is the um expiration on that current order Jessica 3125 determination or order CH oh is it is it a determination my bad yeah it's a determination determination thank you thank you that's good for two years additional two years Beyond so it would be what 31 27 27 yeah 27 okay okay but I was confused about the order and and the determination I was as well very confused yeah I I don't know that that went through the proper channels but um so the determination is the governing document not the previous order of conditions from 2010 right so there was an noi filed in 2010 and there was an order of conditions with that noi right and it seemed like I don't know that any work happened and then they started work after it would have expired and what it looks like from our log is and this was in 2019 that whoever was working then decided the r RDA would be filed to kind of reenact the order of conditions um I have a I'll just read it too CU it's I seem to remember that um it said work began on expired order of conditions due to error RDA used to restore conditions and that was in November 2019 okay so what you need to do is actually get a request for certific compliance invalid order that work was never started okay and that closes that out entirely and you know the commission is going to review it whatever was the commission approved under the determination is the governing set of plans okay so that's good for another two years 3127 okay okay you don't have to do anything except except ask ask for a request for a certificate compliance and issue and invalid okay using form 8B okay okay does that need to be recorded yes if the the original order was recorded no amend no extensions were recorded so yes any certificate of compliance must be recorded okay and it's $15 Fe and Chris to get it recorded at the registry of deeds in Franklin County okay we can put that Pro we can start that paperwork and get that um over to you folks to issue and what was it I'm sorry Mark invalid what did you say well you'll so you'll be getting downloading the form 8A which is the request for S to compliance you'll be checking off invalid order that the request for an invalid order that the work was never started okay perfect okay we can do that um thank you I guess you didn't have to do anything but that was fantastic we're so happy to have been able to help you all before our time yep so we'll um we'll get this project obviously finished we will get this paperwork over to you Jessica so that way we can get it on um hopefully your next meeting and you folks can sign it we can get it recorded and get everything cleaned up for that property so thank you thank you have a wonderful night okay up next we have a notice of mortgage foreclosure sale 179 Silo Sylvio okan Drive uh we are as the commission to discuss if we have interest in acquiring this land so this letter came in I might be misunderstanding um see if I can share um screen share it's not working huh there we go uh so this is the parcel that um is being foreclosed on and uh see let me just get back to sh um so part of it is deemed recreational land use this U 17 nine wait what did you ask whereabouts I missed where you indicated on the map oh it's the whole pink outline see that whole pink yeah so it's like kind of this highlighted parcel and um this is new to me but from what I understand you can file a request of your land designated as recreational yes and so they're for closing on it but part of it will always be recreational because that's so what they're saying in the letter um uh they said our office represents the Massachusetts development Finance Agency in connection with the mortgage foreclosure sale of certain land and improvements located at 179 syia o con Drive in Greenfield an unimproved portion of which is currently tax's recreational land under 61b it is important to note that the property is being sold at foreclosure subject to the city of Greenfield Office of the board of assessors recreational tax lean dated April 16 2013 and recorded with Franklin County registry of deeds as provided in the terms of the notice of the Foreclosure foreclosure pursuant to gosh GL c244 section 14 a copy of which is enclosed here with and as published in the Greenfield Recorder on January 15 2025 that an improved portion of the property shell therefore remains subject to the recreational lean and will not be sold for or convert Ed to residential industrial or commercial use because of that because use of that portion of the property subject to recreational lean will be unaffected by the mor mortgage foreclosure excuse me mortgage forclosure sale and shall remain limited to recreational use the Massachusetts development Finance Agency hereby respectfully requests that the city wave the 90-day notice requirement under GLC 61b 9 by executing the enclosed waiver of notice to be recorded in the Franklin County registry of deeds to the extent the city to the extent the city of Greenfield is not willing or able to provide such waiver this letter and the reference enclosure Shall Serve as notice of the mortgage for closure sale of the property pursuant to GLC 61b S9 so my initial understanding was because they're selling it they uh wanted to let the city know as first R of refusal but maybe I'm totally misunderstanding first s of refusal um I'm not sure because they didn't let's see maybe it says here here it is 26 26.6 593 Acres uh but I don't know if that's the recreational portion that's the whole lot size according to mass GIS okay which which part was the recreation of were the the pond was it's not shown on the map I'm looking at mass mapper and there is a little tiny piece of a perennial stream kind of like on the northeastern corner of the lot and then obviously there's Mast EP Wetlands like you were showing Jessica it's not contiguous with other open space but there's some open space to the west and to the east it's just not contiguous with that parcel no Coldwater Fisheries resources no natural heritage um no Mass historical I don't know about flood plane yet 179 so just to clarify about some of the language um to my understanding of the letter it's stating that the land is under 61b which as Jessica said is um or the program that it's under is related to it being recreational land this is not permanent conservation this is temporary but because it is under that um uh agreement at the time of this foreclosure the letter to my ey is affirming that in when the sale happens it is not being sold for a purpose that is not um in alignment with that Cate that um enrollment in the chapter 61b so they're um notifying the town that it's for sale like you said there's a right of first refusal if the if the town wishes to um purchase it um they may we have the right and they're asking for the waiver but they're also saying that this uh whoever purchases it the sale will be with the intent for it to remain in the same land use and not be changed if it was changed that's when the tax roll backs happen and there's um penalties um uh for violating that you might be in flood plane give me one second trying to figure out where it is it's off Route two it's near Industrial Park oh yeah so um where so like this road at the base that's r two and then it's actually really close to that atoms parcel that we almost wondering if it was the same yeah well it's not the same but there it's very close so I em can you just um confir so they're actually sell so they're selling the whole parcel but they but they're just saying that you can't use that one part for so so whole parcel is being sold portion of it enrolled in the chapter program so it has a a commitment um land use for a certain term okay but but the whole but is being sold with that on it and a portion of it is in bordering land subject to flood were we able to determine which piece of this parcel is under um conservation Recreation rather I haven't been able to determine that um part one let's see I was wouldn't it be the whole thing it says an unimproved portion which I'm wondering is the parts that don't have a building on it right and Haven been cleared but I'm not positive about that it looks like there's a big RightWay too in the front so what are you guys being asked to do tonight I think that it's uh if we are interested in considering it for purchase and then if we aren't signing we need to sign the waiver to kind of release them of that 90day that's my understanding of what this means can you show the map again of the property sure so there are of the land there's a building there is it an industrial building or is it a house I don't know it's like a warehouse I'm pretty sure yeah it looks like there's parking this is owned by like a biodiesel company ah I can see that oh you have blsf shown there I'm sorry I didn't see that before so it's unclear to me whether the right of first refusal would allow us to subdivide the land to purchase only the um portions that are enrolled or if it's um for the whole property um I just don't remember how that works um if it's the whole property I don't see any interest in ours owning um this building um um if it's the portions that are under it it is unclear from the documentation that we have what the portions are um but also it would require you know survey subdivision you know um and then there' have to be some kind of access to the road which seems a little problematic here since the road access is just to that building so those are just some issues to think about here I agree it's not that large of a parcel it's not contiguous with other open space there are a lot of resources on site like the blsf and the streams and that little that little blue line kind of on the northeastern side's technically perennial um the one that goes sort of north south yeah go keep going down to the right that little Snapper on the right that's kind of horizontal that's the only section of perennial I think the rest is all just intermittent which is still jurisdictional under the bylaw and there's D wetlands and there's bordering lands to flood but we do have that big RightWay that building there's no saying if there's if it's an old building if there's any sort of contamination issue asbest I'm I'm agreeing with you Emily okay any other how do you Erica you have any thoughts just that with all the resources on it it's can't be built on anyway so um whether we own it or not and yeah might open up more that we want to deal with if this contamination there sounds like we have a an agreement amongst the commission that we don't think that this is an appropriate piece of property for us to um acquire so okay all right um it might be does anyone know if um the mayor has been made aware of this piece of property as far as I know one of these letters went out to all sorts of people cuz Eric got one at the same time I got one okay right so do we we don't need to make any sort of vote on that one to move on do we I don't think are we the entity that should sign it or is it Eric or the city council or oh I'll get clarity on that but I know you're decision um so I'll figure out the next steps for making sure we do everything sign where would it be signed is at the very end the waiver perhaps we can figure that out now um last time we had a letter that uh asked for our input on whether or not we wanted land I created a memo and um just expressing that we weren interested and so I imagine it might be similar to that but I'll I'll ask Eric what he wants us to do right excellent thank you okay next up let's see looks like we have a National Grid notification letter exempt maintenance activities are scheduled that will impact resource areas so many letters so we got uh a letter from National Grid just saying that they're going to do some work on the utility polls and um that it was exempt work and they sent a whole letter kind of describing it and talking about what resource area would be impacted and excuse me their um kind of their methods to minimize the impact and um I did it is exempt but I also just to like keep us informed I did ask for the exact location that this would be happening so I could tell you guys um so I'll share my screen but let me so this is kind of way off lighten Road um let's see screen share so here's Greenfield um so we come up Liden Road here see and then you can see this is where the utility kind of yeah so um I have an ark map screenshot for you to too but um this is helpful for me anyway yeah so this is from the map so they're going to they're going to access up light and Road and I believe they're going to go up this private drive here and this is agricultural land and so um the the utility poll in question is way over on this side of the property and um so I'm assuming they drive around here and then they access it here rather than going in through Country Club which would have them going directly through the resource yeah I know for a fact they're accessing it off lien Road um so this is so you know once we kind of went across the farming agricultural field come down this way these are the poles you can kind of see them and this is the Wetland and here's uh the the brook it says Mard but um there's discrepancy I think it's MC mcard Brook and um yeah so they're just working here and um I think it will impact this area I did another one so you could kind of see without the polygon filled in you know it's just this this whole Zone but here are the poles and that's where they're going to be can I give you a little background oh sure chair recognizes Mark Stinson so what happened was about 10 years ago give or take uh National Grid ever Source they were doing a lot of exempt work in their rways some of the work they were doing was not exempt so we caught them uh and as a result we've issued or D itself has issued a Statewide water quality certificate to to the utility companies that enables them to do work in waters of the United States we regulate under the Clean Water Act clean Waters act and it's exempt under Wetland protection so maintenance repair and Improvement but not substantial enlargement of so one of the outcomes of the 401 uh issuance was requiring the utility companies to notify the commissions when they're doing this type work so if you see Aon truck you know putting swamp mats over over a a wetland somewhere and replacing a a a poll that you know about it and it's covered under our regulations versus the weather's protection act so it's just to let everybody know yeah everything's cop pathetic perfect thank you we have been notified um let's see all right so as far as new business uh we have reached the point in the evening where any topics not reasonably anticipated uh 408 hours in advance of the posting of this agenda can be brought up now um I don't have um any additional topics that you haven't mentioned um so while we have uh Mark here do we have any questions um prepared rather uh ready off the top of our heads uh regarding the bundled um order of conditions Bund yeah Bund bundled noi for the mass do project and if we don't have them prepared that's totally fine I just thought I'd give folks the opportunity given that we do have Mark here with us tonight yeah how you coming on that Kristen I think that we came up with a pretty solid draft and then bounced that back to Billy and then um then Jessica was hired so she sort of took over and then the Commissioners have been sort of looking at that draft one at a time and adding comments or addressing comments um so one of one of my comments was um and Jessica correct me if I'm wrong because it's been a couple months but um and I can't remember if this was category two or category three or what but I was assuming that one of the categories would be the applicant would provide notice to the agent assuming that maybe if the agent at their discretion would provide administrative approval or presented to the commission for commission review and then the next category higher than that that would be it would just go for the commission so that was that was one of my comments that I had think I'd put in there I think that's what they say now is patory 2 says you Jessica and she can bring it to us but category three has to come before the commission is that what it was so category two would be potentially administrative approval or at the agent's discretion could go before the commission for a group decision Category 3 would be definitely goes to the commission something like that that's what I was thinking for the commission's consideration okay I think one of the main concerns that came up was category 4 for um emergency uh repairs and whether well actually there's two so yeah that was one with um whether it makes sense for them to kind of submit that to me instead of doing an emergency SE and like kind of why it's better for them to do that through the noi versus just doing an emergency sech they limited if I recall the scope of work that's allowed under an emergency you know in terms of square footage that was what 100 square feet of Rip r that can be put down what else was covered under that besides the let me look squ feet it was only was only Road wash out and and yeah there were two categories so the two categories were roadway embankment wash out and drain drainage system embankment wash out um but as far as I I feel like this I've been like doing this for so long that now I'm like forgetting yeah you want me to want me to screen share Jessica I have it handy oh yeah sure go ahead um so this is the category questions to yeah so that was The Bu that was the O right there um um yeah so I'm looking at the noi right now and it does say installation of rip wrap will be limited to less than or equal to 100 square ft for wash outs affecting Bank it would be limited to less than or equal to 25 LF linear feet maybe of Bank yeah so wa the 100 square fet is for bordering land subject to flood Riverfront and bvw or less and then 25 linear feet of bank right is that what the noi said is that transcribed correctly was there any it didn't I don't remember that that uh that it would include BDW I didn't think it yeah it didn't say it didn't specify the way um I yeah I didn't think that was included I mean okay going after no net loss so you know I don't have any trouble with blsf or Riverfront but BBW I don't remember that being part of the original box we had you know because we really want to get that replicated when you can still require Wetland replication so let's say this was done under an emergency permit you can still require replication of BBW under emergency permit without a notice of intent you know just do it you know just say come up with the restoration plan right you know follow it so if what was the other you said there were two things two category uh roadway embankment wash out and drainage system embankment wash out I'm not seeing anything about bvw so maybe on the why maybe this whole paragraph is is not maybe this whole paragraph needs to be Revisited and that's why it's it's highlighted because um that was from like the original draft that I received to edit on and I didn't want to delete it but I also didn't think it should say so I highlighted it to get feedback from you guys on what um all the other points well most of the emergency storm repairs the DOT did have to do with slow failure or uh failure of an outfall and for the most part you know has anybody been on Route 112 through Conway not and seeing all the rip wrap on the slopes there emergency that was bank or blsf and that was you know literally you know thousands of square feet so 100 square feet is actually pretty minimal but you can you can still require I mean anything over that would require emergency permit so 100 square feet is not that big a deal except for the BBW and you can say any BBW loss will require okay throw that in I'd be happy with that paragra okay and then uming Mark said but are we are we accepting BBW or is this are we not putting any resource area in there I'm just saying if you decide to accept it I'd like to see a restoration plan or a replication plan for the for the whatever amount of BDW would be filled by the rip wrap if you allow it I mean you can just say no the rip wrap can only go on bank blsf and Riverfront and not BBW any BBW would require a separate emergency permit that's at your discretion I'm I'm not telling you what to do I'm sorry no I I I agree with that I think that's why this is highlighted this was language taken right out of the noi and so I feel like the I feel like we as a commission really need to think about this and come up with what everyone's comfortable with but 100 square feet is really a minor emergency considering you know everything that happened in 2023 they just want to handle the easy stuff under this so they don't have to be coming to you guys yeah GOA that makes sense so the other if we're ready to move on I know the other question we had was about um kind of a blanket acceptance of them being able to pave oh the widening of the roadway the widening of the road it's a less than a single Lane so which is basically up to a single Lane where was that I feel like that's a lot personally she and I first talked about it all it was was if you already had a gravel a real gravel side there and Paving that I didn't really have a problem with because the runoff coefficient is is basically going to be the same heart pack gravel versus uh pavement but I'm not sure you even have anything in Greenfield that would where that would apply to but if we're using this as a springboard for other municipalities I want to make sure well I I mean we have you in western region but I can't speak for Central Northeast Southeast what if their next one's in hail um or wherever and they just kind of copy this one yeah well yeah I say Greenfield approved it yeah exactly so we're the first I don't want to get it wrong and then start a Snowball Effect um but you know a lot of times chapter 90 money is dependent upon the issue the commission issuing a negative determination of applicability or an order of conditions for the work so that's why you do have to be precise in what you're allowing for the pavement because Paving over the existing uh you know repaving is is typically a minor exempt activity where expanding into the gravel area is not a minor exempt activity right and that's what they're requesting pardon that's what they're requesting approval to under this blank get noi to expand up to a single Lane which is so a single Lane what is a single Lane uh 10 26 feet 26 feet or at least 26 feet um that's to length is it oh you're right oh you're right I'm going to Google it because I don't know well you you can always I mean but where would it apply to see you got 91 otk five right and what else rout two was it 10 2 and 91 12et already I mean you might limit it to an additional three feet either side instead of saying a full length say 3 feet four feet whatever you guys feel comfortable with because us usually have that gravel off sh or for the major roads it's all paved all the way to the fence post whatever what do you think were you asking me Mark yeah whole lane or you want to limit the actual distance um number I think your suggestion is a good one um with the the area the text that's highlighted right now I I'm just a little not sure it says widening of roadways within jurisdictional areas expansion of existing roadways within jurisdictional areas greater than a single L with does not fall under routine onm and will require a new noi so that sounds good to me like they're saying well that's what they're they were asking for it to fall under this ah I wanted to that was one of my comments for the Commission in my draft I was like do we want to do that or not I I don't know so that part was actually for if it's greater than a single Lane it's just specifying that it they have to do a new noi if it's greater gotcha yeah so I might have highlighted the wrong thing Emily but you're on the right track that do we want to that's what they're asking for yeah because the it does talk about the less than a single lane somewhere else in the order of conditions so we can like update that if you guys wanted to decide on if you wanted to limit it to like three to four feet or something to that nature so the toet refers to widen so it can't be widened more than they can't put it in a new catch Basin right they can't I think that yeah in there that new coverts would requ anything requiring basically engineering plans would require yeah okay yeah it's just routine operation and maintenance is so I'd go i' I'd limit it to a distance instead of say saying a single Lane less than a single Lane just give them a linear distance off the existing pavement and that way they really can't get into too much trouble if you limit the distance what do you guys think could we also specify what jurisdictional areas that would be allowed in so like it would be allowed in you know blsf and Riverfront but not bvw or something like that would that be getting too much in the weeds uh they're not going to be Paving over bvw okay just making sure and it seems like if it's if it's more a just widening to 3 feet for example period there is a it's just a firmer boundary uh and easier to follow um do we have a a potential for a like a slippery slope kind of thing where oh they've expanded at three feet and then next time they expanded another three feet is that a possibility well they're supposed to be giving you annual reports right so during the annual report you you're going to find out I mean Billy Lee I like her she's honest you know she she really cares about the environment uh I think that I I don't think that would happen but I can't guarantee it but I I see what you're saying we could include verbiage that would say something to the effect of um if this particular stretch of road is under question again um within the fiveyear scope of this you would then have to come back to ensure that that doesn't go beyond that initial three feet or something make that a category you make that y they get a one shot and anything over one shot is a category three y especially since this is you know they want to use this across the whole state and who knows who which person will be approving it at any point so better better to be more limited and I didn't mean to pick on hail I don't know if the circuit rider for the Northeast regions the same as it used to be but I like Pam so if she's still out there I didn't mean to pick on Hil just saying no pam pam is not a circuit Rider anymore oh she's not okay it's Alicia oh I don't know her I feel like the road widening piece was the biggest bone of contention when we met last time um yeah yeah it was really those two that have come up repeatedly uh do we have any other questions for Mark while we have them here around this specific document I just want to get this closed and out the door yeah um our plan was to vote or their plan was to vote on next meeting February 11th okay good okay barring no further questions clarifications on this particular document at this time time um let's move on yeah if there's anything else before February 11th let's talk about it so you're ready to go on the 11th okay okay so we're g to go ahead and move on to some old business here uh specifically lamp Black Road parcel R 08-11 a-0 um a road was cut and excavated down a wooded Hillside to the flood plane and Riverfront below in order to access the Fall River uh this was not a permitted project Steven Pritchard was heading the project and is in attendance to discuss erosion control mitigation installation and next steps hi thank you for coming guys you're welcome Melissa Pritchard and I are here to discuss uh this matter I um sent Jessica some pictures of the what I've done so far for soil erosion prevention um it was it appeared to be a daunting task but after I got the materials on site and started at it I asked some advice from some friends of mine that are in uh the landscaping business so I acquired um several rolls of this jute matting along with the straw Waddles and um upon his advice on how to install it went pretty easy using this slope to allow the material to roll down so I covered the edges staked it with biod gradable Stakes there's still some staking it has to be done because you have to put quite a few in you have to drill with uh you know a concrete bit because there is a frost line and um so far I I covered the edge of the ramp that drops into the River Flat because that's where I think we all agree that the the effect of erosion is going to be the most critical to prevent soil from washing into the River Flat um got a significant amount covered I plan on continuing that job all the way up the ramp several hundred feet to get away from the river I'm putting more Waddles up against the hillside that's to the right because there appears to be water flow coming out of that Hill onto the path and um so so far so good and I'm just basically buying more material but I want to continue on to meet your needs and wants on this project the hillside are the next project I'm going to attack with extension ladders so I'm going to extend them up take the Roll material up pin it at the top let it roll down um we've talked about I think Emily suggested the it's not rip wrap but it's like sacks of rock that have rye grass seed in them that you can put on the side and then I plan on putting a water reservoir up top because it's been so dry last year we had the drought with gravity fed hoses with nozzles to water the new growth areas yep so I had a couple questions for you folks I wanted to know if the Conservation Commission had access to the US Forestry service for tree saplings and then the other thing was are you going to recommend how many trees be planted in the barren area of the sidewalls where you had to excavate to make the path and you know the growing season as the other gentleman mentioned Is Not Great around the corner because there is I would say the frost is down close to8 inches right now that you have to penetrate so it's got to thaw before you can start planting root balls but our intent is to plant a lot of trees to prevent further erosion on the sidewalls well I think the last time we talked we talked about there were kind of two phases one was um you know obviously cease and desist and stabilize the loose soils and then the second part would be restoration um right I'm not I'm not sure I'm completely satisfied with this stabilization yet no I know there's still a significant amount of material that has to be applied but with the cold snap but it's just going to be continued on to cover that road further up I see that you have a lip on the side of that road that you constructed um what is that there's kind of like a like a on the side so you've got the road right that you've created but then there's like a little lip on the edge it looks like yes that's that's going to be good if you had say water bars or some sort of control measure diagonal in line with the road um because right now it's frozen nothing's really moving right now but if you get freeze thaw and heavy rain events soil is just going to shoot right down that road it's also going to be creating reals and gullies underneath that mat on the slopes but also it's going to be shooting right down that Road right so on the left side of this picture I don't which which photo do you want me to do that's good this one yeah yes my plan is to put for your suggestion last week straw Waddles all along here and on the other side because the hills over here so I I did install a w today I I didn't send it yet but over here is the bank comes down from the slope so I plan on putting wles over here water is leeching out and she's right is when the snow and the ice back up that water's going to gush so my concern is to continue bringing this up keep attaching the JW rugs with staks and getting longer staks because this ice pack is significant then I'll reset those when the ground THS but over here we're going to put straw Waddles along the hills prevent that water from leing in so to slow it so it's like a dam and a filter allows the water to pass through it we hold the soil back and then when the growing season starts we plan on the hillside does the does the Ravine naturally help us at all in with this melting situation because there's that Ravine that already exists right to the left of the road I told you folks the last time that two days after he started making the path I call Path but that's what I asked the guy to do was make a path they don't they don't make bulldozers 24 inches wide so unfortunately it's a wide swath but I uh two days after he started there was a significant rainstorm and he is experienced in doing this type of work because they he's worked on ski resorts and whatnot and um he watched the behavior of the water flow now Eric made a good comment that the soil was very dry so it probably absorbed abbed this was before Frost even started occurring but we saw no damage or ruts from the water at that point onto the path so as Melissa States I think my plan also on the right side is to just hand dig hand TR a little bit of a trough because it's right now it kind of hits the road perfectly flat I like to create a little trough so the water can settle in there instead of rushing across the path you mean like water bar or yes so like diagonally like if you look at that photo well can I mark this up be down at left side so you mean parallel with the road yeah cu the water's coming down this bank that's what's creating this swath right here this water's coming right out of here so I put a waddle in here today I'm going to continue that waddle down and wrap it down here to connect with this one and stake it and then keep this drink rug going up all the way up it kind of levels off a little bit up here but that's as far as I'm going to Jud it at this point waddle this and then in the spring start getting grow and up here but where's the trough going to be just a little bit of a to allow the water to instead of rushing across the path and create an erosion let it run it was naturally going in here before the again right into here I feel like if you create a trough parallel with the road it's going to carry a lot of soil downg gradient from the Disturbed soil at the top it's going to create a new stream channel basically do you have the picture of the new waddle that you put in to show would the waddle W where the Hill Hits the path be better than making a little trough where's that I don't know if she heard me yeah you might have to talk to the mic would a waddle along the hillside where it levels off at the path be better than making a little trough I think that if you put I mean I'm not an expert and I don't want to tell you what to do but I've seen on construction sites where there is temporary stabilization measures you can put a DI like picture this road right now picture where that cursor is but go diagonally across if there were water bars there that will slow the water down especially if you make it kind of like a J at the end oh so water bar is is that different than a waddle you can use Waddles as a temporary bar and then just make sure you kind of hook it facing up slope a little bit but I'm just saying if and I don't quote me on this I'm not telling you what to do but I'm just guessing if you dig a dug a trench parallel with the road on the left side of that photo it's just you're going to create a stream channel Kristen do you have an example of a water bar that you could share with us so that we can all see I think that there might be some um I've got an example from the um manuals for forestry that would be great yeah so if I can just share go ahead so that we can have a visual um I think that might be helpful yeah you know what DCR I have a DCR handbook too um I think that's public I can share that um yeah this is publicly available as a PDF and I don't know if you can really tell what's going on there but it's basically it's a you know it can be either um a a trough or um if you want to do a really good one you dig that channel and then you put a um a log in it to provide further um uh stability but diagonal not exactly it's diagonally across the road it's not running parallel to the road so that it's disrupting the flow of water um and this is a tricky location here because you know if the water runs along the edges it's just going to go down to the edge of um two slopes on your path your your path that was created but um but this is the this is the the concept of it and you can you know you can get the BMP manual easily online um and I'm sure there's other manuals that you can find that can tell you more about their construction cool Jessica can can you send me that website yeah Emily could you put the link in the chat and then I'll so no we're we're I'm nowhere near completed with you know addressing this issue I will continue working on it until well we'll meet again and keep keep path forward y so one of your other questions was um yes um do you have a connection with the forestry service for saplings when that time comes in Wisconsin we lived out there for six years you could write the state and they would send you I think up to 24 they were like a foot tall but you know they were pine trees right but they took off quick at least to get something growing and they are indigenous to this area too that what they had um but I'm also wondering Blue Spruce was their favorite thing to send out I was just wondering if the commission is are are you going to tell us like how many and what kinds you want or or should we figure that out ourselves um so in the past we have um requested certain numbers uh so we've requested in the past basically like one for one um and then the other piece in terms of like what the composition of them are they basically it's just got to be something that's native to Franklin County but one tree for every tree that was taken down but if there there's like there was weren't that many trees was probably 12 to 15 rang it in size around the bend and down that I we plan them planting away from the GetGo I'm plan them put in two dozen or more because we want it to look beautiful when it's all said and done like Red Oaks White Oaks Maples Spruce Beach m i talked to my landscape guy and we've already got it all teed up because he has several places wholesalers that he deals with that we can get these trees going in the spring they're not real big but they're up to six feet tall with a you know sizable root ball the so once we finish the juk wrapping and the water bar and the Waddles will'll be at the February 11th meeting are you going to finish all that by then yeah keep working on I couldn't believe it last week it was so he was out there all day on his hands and knees doing it in 11 Bel I got the best long J you can get it actually was absolutely beautiful down there today's Windstorm I was down there no wind at all because 250 fet down it was calm deer were walking in the river I mean it's just beautiful down there the other day I told you I thought too so anyway what I was wondering is once this phase is completed with the Waddles and everything and then spring comes and the trees go in and whatever and then I presume at that point we monitor what's happening with the water flow and the and the soil and see what's happening is that what we do is that the yeah can you bring up um one of the photos from last week there was the one that showed the ramp down of the base that was actually in the resource area CU I think that gets to what you asking about uh which is sort of once we do the the remediation steps on the bank what do we do about stuff that's actually in that water area is that fair I think it doesn't it end right there yeah it ends it doesn't go into the flat it's a couple trees they were dead Oren over do a little it looks more like it does in that photo than it really it doesn't go but but regardless whatever amount is going into the flat areas is not very big I don't think that would be difficult to do whatever you want us to do because it's not a it's it it's not like 30 feet or anything it's like it's maybe like 10 wouldn't you say no it's it's 30 seem like that it didn't seem like that that dirt that you can see his equipment made the path that's probably 30 feet out but that's the River Flat but that's where you have the Waddles right now at the end of that dirt path right but that I mean that is pretty much open the as you can see the trees are pretty scattered the river is about 160 ft from the end of the ramp where it hits the flat over there into you know Straight Ahead the trees he laid down there at the bottom was to create drainage for the Springs to get by well we have somebody from the state here and considering this is this is a perennial stream right not intermittent what did she say the uh Fall Brook is perennial but no well not oh he's from in the layers from massgis we know it's convenient yeah we yeah I have a screenshot of the um I think Elizabeth you mentioned the last time that the trees have to get established if they die over period remove and a new one the intent is to get a natural force going right oh that's right yes I do so this is a screenshot of um my Ark map that did have the endangered and rare species layers activated and there's nothing yeah this is exactly where the path comes down it starts right about here and it follows the natural Ravine and bend and then where you and Eric walked it comes down around a bend and then flattens out right by the right angle with that Fall River when I when we were there I feel like it was closer to the star because because we like came down yeah yeah I think the start of it because yeah you're right because I have to walk yeah because the Bend's pretty far yeah yeah so the entrance is here but it follows the natural Ravine wherever our property line is it kind of it's closer to it here and then it bends and turns the prop see this light red is the property line right there you go so that's kind of like the what are the green lines Jessica that's the buffer that's a 200 foot buffer from um the Fall River as the it it's not actual Rivers wider so the buffer will extend further than it's shown on the map and what are the blue light blue I think those are intermittent okay Springs that dry up yeah so 200 feet from the light blue would be jurisdictional under the bylaw and then a conservative estimate is of the green lines is jurisdictional under the Wetland protection act yes yeah and you got flood plane down the bottom there so you know so you got 200 feet under the weather's protection act on and under the ordinance doesn't matter so usually you know most commissions would say give us a plan you know tell us how you're going to do it tell us when it's going to be done that's how it usually works and we didn't actually officially issue anything did we do we issue an enforcement or not no since they had been so um we did get the ceas and toist letter right yeah but we've been Cooperative we're doing exactly what you're asking us to do my intent is to have all the wrap and the water lines done before the growing season and then aggressively plant stuff water it and get stuff established to prevent erosion right we're going to watch it like Hawks I don't want any trees falling in either I mean I want this thing to be established so do we want to impose a deadline or do we want the applicant to come back with us with a restoration plan for us my feeling is given how Cooperative they've been I don't feel like we need to have any um any deadline of any sort it seems like you're pretty motivated to the amount of that you've accomplished since we had last Met has been quite impressive given the weather that we had especially um and I feel like unless we reach a point where we're not in accord as we have been then perhaps we would come to a point where we would require that um the only deadline I would say that we would need to think about would be ready to do so getting those plants in as basically soon is is advisable given the weather that'll be the fun part of it restoring the forest yeah getting stuff growing but on the next meeting is February 11th you'll see the progress because the mats will be down more water you know flow prevention will be in place and you can see was there any chance that we could somebody could get out there maybe you or get I'm happy to come out to take pictures so that yeah you should that' be great just to get some um more pictures from the perspective of you know kind of where we're trying to see up um I think that would probably be helpful um do I just had one question on the water bar thing were you recommending more than one or just one well I haven't been to the site so I don't know how long and how steep that road is but I just I put a document that the DCR uses for for trail maintenance on the Google Drive Jessica can share that with you I'm not sure if I can put stuff in the chat because technically it's open meeting um but I we can send that to you and you can use that as a guidance and I'm not aware of any connections that we have for sourcing trees thought I didn't think so but I thought it is never HS to ask um okay and was that did you you had seems like you had a list of questions did we address everything is both from the commission's perspective and from yours uh no you've adjusted the two questions I had okay thank you we'll keep working on it thank you we appreciate your cooperation with all us no problem I'll send you the attachments and the link tomorrow out and we can coordinate via email what time would work yeah yes okay good to see you you too all right thank you safe travels give just a second a little bit and then we'll move on okay I am I know I thought I had a water bottle in it canot the life there's a l there right yeah fill maybe I just remember bringing it in from last time yeah it's off mystified all right see up next um we have the uh land donation the three Parcels offered for donation to conservation commissions that are 37- 53- r 37-540 and r 37-57 o um we are going to discuss the visit that myself and Emily and Jessica had with the mayor uh to go walk part of those properties unfortunately the only pictures that I took while we were there were of a moose track so important thing yeah I was really excited Emily were you able to I did find I I thought I had taken several but I just took two um and I wasn't able to navigate the um folders very well so it's in the meetings folder for that property not the one you sent me the link to Jess and I was trying to move it and duplicated it so what do you mean the meeting the meeting to's meeting the public the folder for today's meeting and there's a in there for um that property that's where I put it a little earlier okay see okay yeah wait there's multiple copies of okay yeah just it says please delete them it wouldn't let me delete them once I made them by accident here let's see if I I'll share my screen uh sure okay so was this was once we went through well I guess this would just be the trail we were walking down so we had to walk quite a ways to get to the proper so could you actually start with the map of the parcels please yes um one of the things I'd like to point out is um access okay thanks we haven't made a decision yet right this is still we're deciding so where we are okay okay thank you um I don't good night Mark good night oh bye mark thank you so much you're so helpful yeah thanks so much for your help Okay so let's do the map first wait I'm sorry we're still deciding on these Parcels we haven't decided yet no we're just conferring there was a site visit and now we're talking about it okay gotcha okay yep thanks for the refresher yeah it's like there's a delay with my mouse I don't know what's going on okay so could you point out please Jessica where we accessed okay so from this road on the western part of the map is route two that goes toward shelburn Falls so we turned on shelburn Summit and we had to go up like a Private Drive and sorry the private drives at the top of the map and then we parked there and that's the RightWay for the owners of the properties so it is private but it's private to the property owners so we got permission from Randall golly so we were able to park there and access this four-wheel drive Road um and so yeah we hiked South down this map and the first East property proper was to the west but we kept hiking and then there's an access gate smack in between the two eastn property easn Parcels um that we walked into and that was as far as we made it with the mayor that particular day so um there's not a ton of photos I thought I had photos of once we went on the other side of the gate um I have some other photos I can show that's of Randall Go's property just for the sake of the conversation but um yeah so before you move on from this one of my questions is because the way we accessed it required specific permission from the owners of those other Parcels in between the eastn properties and where we parked is there actual Public Access that would like on you you mentioned there's another road where you can go in from well if you see down at the southern part of the map here um this is shelburn road like Old shelburn Road um so Randall gol's property does touch it but um it is steep and I'll show you so like this is Randall gol's property so see how it goes like straight down to the this yeah what's on his property I just want to look at there's not one okay that I know of anyway I can figure um yeah I can help that's my new one where's so there's Frontage on that road but it's the real estate development potential is pretty slim considering that would be like a bridge true well stand by so my whole my whole point in asking this question is do we have the ability regardless of whether or not the access is steep to provide parking such that people could hike and utilize that space um and I'm just trying to look at it this on oh because we wouldn't have public access from the north that's only a onetime offer it wouldn't actually not sure um the answer to that question we'll have to do some more digging on that because I mean currently it seems like that's the right away for the property owners um but if it was put into land cont conservation with the city we would be a property owner so I don't know if but we would be opening it to hiking for whomever happens to want to be hiking out there and that's where the trouble so where we find that information how would we figure out that well that's I am trying to get H shelburn Summit where's shelburn Summit road I want to back end sorry I still have mass mapper open the place to start would be the deed for the proph property to see what kind of access um so would that be on mass lands yeah okay this section here you should be able to look it up and by the land owner you can't look it up by the lot you can but on the the property card will have the the book and deed for the deed so the book and page for the deed so you could find these um so let's see sh so I did go to Randall gol's property on my own um like a couple weeks before our hike and this was from shelburn road so this was like how steep it is M oh yeah You' need like a suspension bridge to get across it's like really really steep so there's no reasonable access at that side there's not okay there's like this little fire Road that's actually on the property to like kind of the northeast of his that's also owned Seems like by a family member but it well maybe if it were just foot traffic you could like do switchbacks of the yeah yeah maybe yeah not as ideal as the northern route though no um so in the nor in the northern route is there any place if we did end up owning the property that we could pass into and then have some parking there so that they're not working on somebody else's property or well um so they have to be driving down that like it's maybe like a Logging Road it might be a little bit less than a I actually have um so Randall golly sent photos of the access um that we took so this is shelburn Summit mhm um so there's this the car is kind of parked in front of this private drive and it's like I don't even think it's paved this makes it look paved but it's I don't think it's paved and I I don't even think this does it justice is actually quite steep yeah the um the Twins were with us and they they very quickly found the mayor a a walking stick uh that was so great that they did that that was really thoughtful that was very sweet but but the point is is that it's it's rugged it's rugged and so um which is fine for hiking trails but um it's just the access is a challenge because the only place that was really available to park was at this like Junction of a private homeowner's driveway this other crazy steep driveway and then this Logging Road uh piece so I have and I'm not I'm not in any way suggesting that we should not accept these properties um I think they're beautiful and totally worth conserving um I just have questions around the public access the use so this is the access road that we took um the screen here uh so we drove up this private steep Road and then right here you can see a clearing that's where there's a switch back to somebody's private residence M um so the way I parked is not the way we parked when we were together I just parked with my car facing route two in this little like zone right here and so in my head I'm like well that could accommodate M three cars maybe four um and then right here is where the four-wheel drive officially starts and then we you know we hiked pretty far in here and so my concern with all of that is that none of that parcel that you've just described is part of the property that we would be taking possession of and that's not a right away um I guess I hear that right like I get that we as the owners would have right of way to access that I'm thinking about it in terms of like neighborly relations if we then go and say hey we're going to like clear clear the space out and then anybody who wants to can come Park their car here and go hiking whenever they want I feel like that could potentially create Strife with um the house first of all that's right there yeah and then the other property owners as suddenly um it's not just the Conservation Commission that's accessing the property it's anybody in their grandmother who knows about this particular hiking area now accesses this property well we could put something in the deed allowing the clearing of a three car parking lot that's actually on the property but the my question is is that a public road can we use that road to access Parcels go can you even drive past that clearing where you guys parked before if you have four-wheel drive like a Jeep or something but um it's not like it is not it it gets pretty like Steep and worse than Willcox Hollow like yeah oh I haven't been out to will Cox in a while but it's will a steep but it's it's a road this is barely a road gotcha it's more of a big trail yeah it's a path gotcha we T have land that's just that we own so nobody else can own it just for conservation and habitat that's a good question because I mean I know that we have several properties like Wildwood um Sanctuary has no access I think um um there's a couple of things that we have that have no access well and I think people just don't know about them so they don't go you know and right if people don't know about it it would just be protected right and nobody would yeah because this land on this map here um at the south of the map is conservation land right and then and I do seem to recall somebody mentioning um that the parcels in between goalies and that area were owned by other goalies but may or may not be future future on the Block I think that this just south is a golly and then this is a golly oh yeah that's right okay and then off the map to the Northeast there's more conservation land but it's on the other side of Route two so it's not exactly contiguous okay and that's D do we have the biomap layers for this this area that anybody could share with us the biomap um I'm sorry Emily you seem a little Qui it for some reason I wonder why I will'll move closer to my microphone see what what what is right between root two and um's two and this is like the one I didn't do an ark map screenshot it's up and then this way and then because that's that would be important to me too um to see what kind of habitats they um you know what the soils are to me looking at it when we were up there it really is not an area that I would want to see people like dynamiting to put a house in to have a nice view and um it's pretty close to route two so it's definitely within the viewshed of uh you know the cedic roadway um so there's a lot of benefits to having it not be developed and then I just you know love to see what else there has been mapped There Is it part of core habitat is it part of you know unbroken Woodlands um you know it's pretty um the fact that it's part of a summit of a mountain is also another um value you know uh if it got developed and there were visible houses there it would detract from the beauty of the mountain um so there's all those too no biom no it's not a core or critical connecting landscape um no certified veral pool no mapped natural communities that doesn't mean anything no priority habitat Noti ligh up important um per se yeah exactly okay there there's actually um a couple other photos that Randall sent that's from his parcel that I can share real quick because it's from the summer it's nice and green what is that so I don't know what this is just me I saw that I like that it's some weird Reservoir thing oh we had SE a couple of small um building type things that looks like a grave or like a borrow pit or something the old well sister well this isn't this we didn't go here oh that's right yeah this is the one that because we didn't go as far as his property but look at this isn't this so pretty gorgeous and he was the one that saying he had all kind of rookies too yeah and then yeah so those were the three photos he sent but there's like definitely like a little Pond and I was looking at the contour map trying to figure out where that was CU when I went on my own I couldn't it wasn't obvious there's no certified veral pools but there may be vernal pools maybe yeah exactly and there could be rare plants out there they're just not right submitted to get one of certified that would help like our C like yeah yeah um I again I I am all for conserving these spaces I just want to think about all of the various pieces that could be potentially problematic um another there were two other things that I mentioned and I actually because I mentioned them I don't remember that you do or you don't I do okay um somebody had mentioned something about hunting on these properties um um so I guess my question is in Greenfield at least is hunting on conservation property permitted doesn't it have to be like whatever the conservation language in the deeds states would it be different for each parcel um none of the let's see I'm just guessing but this is my impression is that none of the the the properties that are held by the conservation restriction presently have a restriction overlaid over them I might be wrong but I didn't get that impression from looking at the list um that's where it would be spelled out or or in the deed like if it was given specifically with you know but barring hunting so we would have to specify it has to be specified yeah it's not just like the natural state is yes Town yeah exactly those rights remain I mean of course it's by permission you know because it's owned by the the town but um but that's not you know not a not not allowed because it's owned by the town certainly that's just a matter of postage posting signage yeah exactly okay the other piece was um given what I know about the area outside of specifically those Parcels I grew up out in that area I know there's some pretty enthusiastic snowmobilers out there um and so I think that we should also be cognizant of the potential for um snowmobile trail needs use and then monitoring um in order to maintain that property so that the snowmobile those clubs don't abuse the property um again I don't know what anybody experience I was gonna say is there a snowmobile club around um Club I know in Maine that they will they they take the on responsibility of making sure that right you know that people don't abuse them and that they're so that they can continue yeah um I would have to I know there have been I don't know if there are any active or there's the Snowmobile Association of mass or Sam it's not quite as robust as it was in years past you know the winters aren't what they used to be but but that is uh you know it is an existing um and they have very good trail maps too of their the trails that are used and and maintained by their members um I didn't get a I don't know that there is a a snowmobile trail here um usually they're not the walking trails they'd be something else you know they'd be parallel to them or something along those lines right okay those were my only um concerns I agree with you Emily I would be appalled to see somebody blast the top off of this mountain just for you know like we were talking about before what t PX bracket would you be looking to serve with that um so it's a special place up there you can tell the people who have access to that enjoy it yeah um yeah so the only other on your two things was if you know if we do take it over how how I me are we going to do any monitoring or or of of whether there hunting whether there snowmobiles right and how are we going to do that yep I mean or are we just going to post and the people don't don't abuse it yeah yeah yeah because it's not like the on you know Kristen you've mentioned a couple of places that you go on the regular it's not like uh it's not as accessible for um maintenance and upkeep of Maintenance upep monitoring um as some of the other properties are so what are our responsibilities as a commission should we decide to uh accept these Parcels as it relates to taking care of the properties and maintaining them and making sure that they are um not abused did be well I feel like the the the biggest concern with some of our conservation lands are illegal dumping um you know stuff like that I don't think that's going to be an issue on the site um so You' yeah you'd have to work pretty hard as far as that goes and you had another I say I didn't I think the last mayor was talking about do we have any liability if somebody gets hurt up there not if it's public if it's we talked about that on the um yeah yep oh no so no liability if anybody gets hurt up there if unless you're taking money land yeah unless you're taking money I think that was what we were explained before when we talked about that when we were talking about the conservation land up on the ridge which by the way is still not settled was oh yeah um so we have you heard from the mayor since we no about this no okay did you send the we were gonna send her an email with not only the maps but points that we yeah okay no I did not okay um so we we did summarize those points in an email at some point right the three of us had email yeah we kind of yeah went back and forth a little bit about what we remember from the day okay so um so yeah we need to I guess decide now what we want in it y um were were there enough resources throughout the properties to make it unfeasible to build on not really well the big problem was topography because and really shallow bedrock and it I think that the East may or may not have been more receptive to the idea of doing only some conservation and some with what the mayor had envisioned um but it seemed like it was like a long slope down to rout two from the easts and there's no uh util you know utility water power you know sewer like all that stuff so that was going to be that's one of the things we were talking to her about was just impracticality yeah like how much would that cost so even it's not even if it's not resources that we can monitor that there other reasons that people wouldn't and I I don't know I'm just thinking of the place off of did you see that one were you there Kristen when we went um was was it sou Shel Road where the meat packing plant was I I don't know that okay maybe it was before you um there was like a was like a meat slaughtering and Greely I didn't even know it's something and and somebody then it's it's behind Home Depot and they wanted not them but somebody wanted to buy all and luckily we hired a second mland scientist and he went in and found like so that so that they finally decided it was like only be like a little teeny so I didn't know if this property was like that if there was no place for people to put in anything anyway um it would rep placed but it still is not accessible between yeah the the access is huge um the the the utility access is also an issue um and there are as you know as Jessica is showing there are some uh Water Resources but it's it's really I got the sense that um the mayor was is here and she wanted to talk to like a different land owner that was more um towards town like the town section of the eastn property um so I know that she was kind of exploring one more Avenue of access but that was yeah leading toward so um did you send her that top that too M I did like that day I just like went back and did it okay but would you be willing to send her a followup with the too map with the images that you've got plus the bullet points of like which what images his some of whatever got okay it's not even just toppo there's a perennial stream they would have to cross if they're accessing from the south which is a pretty significant hurdle as well well yeah the steepness of it was one of the things that was impressing the mayor in terms of it's it's uh in being inappropriate for development yeah I think she just wanted to hear more like why it wouldn't work for her vision versus why we want it for our vision I mean if say like you get past the steepness and you want to build on the top of the slope or the top of the hill you'd have to build like a million dooll bridge that to gain access yeah that was uh yeah that was the other piece um but so so my my question is is is would you be willing to send her a follow-up email with the resources that we have collected for this um along with our bullet points of like this is these are the issues yeah I could write a letter outlining yeah the bullet points of why we want it right not why it wouldn't work for her I think she was interested in what we were saying as to why it was not um conducive for development okay here's why we think it's not conducive for development here's why we would like to put it into conservation okay I think that point that you brought up Jessica also about the shallow Bedrock is pretty significant that whole Mountain Top yeah I really hammered it in like the whole there's some more bed rock yeah I mean it's like if you look at the 20 the 1 to 24,000 scale surficial geology that whole all three Parcels Are All Shall of Bedrock so that's there's really little development value there I think yeah um yes so I can send that and you want me to attach photos of like the beauty not that I mean kind of this is this is all water this is all I have for that and then I have those steep um oh yeah those yeah cause she didn't walk down there right so scare her with the toppo yeah yeah I can send those um so send the letter and say like please see attached photos y yeah perfect okay okay thank you so um I'll just pull the bullet points from what we've discussed already or yes from the and from the um I think it's all in the email too so it's not quite as a okay you don't have to necessarily sift through all of these notes to find that stuff um because Emily had had a couple of really good points I think that she added to the email yeah okay um okay let's close out some tabs um I feel like we had let's see land donation enforcement updates that's just that just forever lives there just Liv there okay well then in that case I think we have come to the end of our time together for the day feel like I think that was great yeah Less in two hours it went well all right okay perfect um so uh um right so we we want those pieces of property to go into conservation and we want to go ahead and um close out the meeting for tonight what we're done Kristen you're up uh I this is my queue motion to adjourn we'll see you on the 11th second all right we have let's vote uh Emily hi Kristen I Erica I I am also an I uh we will adjourn this meeting of the Greenfield Conservation Commission at 8:20 p.m. January 28th and we'll meet again at 6:30 p.m on February 11th