So, welcome. I'm calling to order the community relations committee of the Greenfield City Council. It is 6:05 p.m. Um, and we are all here. So, thank you all for being here. If um this meeting is being recorded by the
community relations committee, if any other persons present are doing the same, you must notify the chairperson at this time. Uh, Anthony, are you recording? He's he's off camera and off off mic. So he Okay. Uh if I may record, I I'd love
to, but I I don't know what the options are for remote. >> Okay, cool. There you are. All right. So, um we're going to do a roll call of members. And since we have uh folks who are virtual, um all of our votes tonight
will have to be um by roll call. So, uh, councelor Wendelowski, I am here. Councelor Williams >> here. >> Councelor Brown >> here. >> Councelor Minhas >> here. >> Councelor Perry >> here.
>> Great. We have a quorum. And we are all here. And the mayor is also here. And um, we also have Amy from economic development. So, a full house tonight. Fantastic. Um, our first order of
business is the approval of minutes from October 20th, 2025. Do I have a motion? >> Some moved. >> Thank you. And a second. >> Second. >> Thank you. That was Patty. I heard for the second. All in favor? Um, say
councelor Wendelki. Yes. >> Councelor Williams, >> yes. >> Councelor Brown, >> yes. >> Councelor Minhas, >> yes. and councelor Perry. >> Yes. >> Fantastic. I think that's all we need to vote on. Um so we have time for public
comment. Uh and the basically you get three minutes. Um but if you're just speaking on one of the things on the agenda, we don't you don't have to do it as public comment. So totally up to you. Um and uh oh, we just had someone enter the
waiting room. >> Thank you. And if anybody online wants to be part of public comment, um, just put your name in the chat. We can't see hands when they're raised. >> All right. Mayor, can you pass me the public link?
>> All right. So, um, we've got, uh, two folks signed up. Um, Kate Broton. Um, Kate, if you want to come up and sit at that chair just so people can see and hear you. And for public comment, you just have to state your name and where you live.
>> Uh, well, I'm Kate Broton. I'm 94 Street, Precinct 7. Great. And >> I'm Mary Sum from Precinct 7. All right. 60 soul away. And you've got the floor for three minutes. >> Oh, >> well, these are all our guests. >> Okay. You asked us.
>> Why don't we uh if you all just want to stay at the table, we'll see if we have anybody else for public comment and then we'll move into the next agenda item. Sounds good. >> All right, see your hands. >> Nobody has puted their na their name in
the chat. So, um it is 609 and I am closing the public comment period. Um and we're going to move to the discussion on the no the noise ordinance which I imagine is why you're here tonight. So, thank you for being here. >> Right.
>> You know, we talked about this briefly last month. >> Yes. and I had mentioned the group and so during the during the last month I asked Kate and Mary to come and talk about the work they've been doing for the last year or so on this and they graciously agreed and so we have them
here tonight to talk about this or uh thing that came up through the work that the precinct 7 neighborhood group was doing through the fair loans for the last year and a half or so. >> No, I appreciate it because it's it's come up in a number of different contexts. Um my precinct has the
uh marijuana grow operation which had very loud fans. >> Your one >> uh and eight >> eight. Okay. Right. >> Um and I heard a rooster noise complaint. So um would love to see >> the railroad and five.
>> Yeah. Although that got taken care of. >> That got taken care of. Yeah. >> They stopped idling their uh engine. So >> you all have the floor. Thank you for and I'm not going to cut you off at 3 minutes. So, let's view this as a conversation. >> Well, we are so glad to be here because
Mary and I were both saying that the timing of your invitation couldn't be better since we've pretty much reached a point where the work we've already done is now ready for a new stage. Okay. And uh but we thought
it might be helpful just to give you a little history of how our group came to be. and said um when we started our facing seven neighbor group um it was
after having had a meet and greet event for the mayor actually before I really knew her and I just happened to host an event and we had about 20 and Mary wasn't you weren't we didn't know you yet even though >> she was up on the hill at Solar Way and
I was down on the hill on Meridian but um we had about 20 people all told from wisdom way petty plane da and during the the the chat that we had all so many people were talking about noise issues
and primarily for those of us in that little cohort um it was bare grounds related but um as we came to find out obviously there's many many types of noise that are making
people's lives uncomfortable um that after um after the election was over and it was January um I talked to a few of my neighbors about whether they would be interested in a neighborhood association and also we knew that the Green River
school issue was going to be coming up and we really felt that we would be not vulnerable because that sounds paranoid but we might be at a disadvantage >> being unorganized. Yes. So, um, a handful of neighbors from Meridian
Street, y'all got together and said, you know, should we give this a shot? And so, we had our first meeting and then a few more people came. And then at one point, we reached out to the mayor's office about the fairgrounds and our concerns.
And, uh, the mayor was like right on it. Matt Conway was just awesome. Um and so a forum was scheduled and held and it was um I think I say March I think yeah March 18th and that was held
at the John Zan Center. And what was really interesting is an activity that we thought was going to be just bare grounds related. There are a lot of people from a lot of the different precincts and Mary was sitting right in front of me. And this is so ironic, you know, because again, how we
grow by each other so many times in in supermarkets, but Mary spoke um person, I got to find out who she is. And uh afterwards, we recruited her to be part of um the precinct 7 group. And because
Mary is so tied in and I'm going to let you talk yourself talk about um but up at Solar Way and in that part of the precinct um it just added more voices and more perspective. So you can
>> Yeah, I you know basically it didn't start out as noise ordinance. It was just a a nuisance issue that started. I'd never done anything like that. Reached out, but that time that gear jammer type of pro thing with all the trucks and I reached out to Michael at
the fairgrounds and I, you know, wrote a letter and everything and then it kind of snowballed from there. Well, this is all a licensing issue. Um, you should come to the meetings and express your feelings and things. And that's how it
kind of got started up there. And um we had a good rapport, you know, um understanding him. He invited me, he invited Kate different times over and we talked and but the more got involved, the more we realized that it wasn't just
an issue for us. There was issues all over town and with noise and issu, you know, music and whatever. and uh so got an idea that maybe we should start investigating ordinances cuz there had
been one originally >> Mhm. >> and it just didn't fly. So, >> but we did dig it out. >> We dug it out. >> Dug it out. >> Well, so what happened is one of >> Oh, yeah. I I I remember when when we
came into this current session, there's always a list of things that were like dangling and that was one of them. >> Well, when WID um had was sworn in, was it March, April? >> February, I think. >> February. Okay. Right. So, >> March was my first that doesn't fire
that meeting at the John Z. >> Right. And then so and then in April when we had our meeting at the library we had came and so we're talking and all of a sudden he said oh by the way there's going to be a another concert series and we said what was that and and he
said it's going to be soulfest. We're going oh soul music. Oh great you know and then of course it turned out it was going to be a three-day thing on top of everything else. So most of the work we were doing, we weren't really thinking about
drafting a noise ordinance. Most of the research was just to find out what parameters were there that could help us negotiate with the fairgrounds in terms of, you know, mitigating things. >> But so during the summer, we were still
in that headset. But then we just said, you know, there's too many other things going on and what we should do is like separate out of precinct 7 and create just an ad hoc research group representing the entire community uh and
all of the community issues. So we added some people who aren't from precinct 7. We called people up. Some people wanted to be involved but they didn't. you know how they always say it's like I'm really interested but um but we still had a
good pulse on on the interest. So we started researching and we did so much analysis of precinct of um of communities that have noise ordinances already and we diced them and defined
them in many different ways. You know some of them were based on do they have a fairgrounds or an outdoor performance venue? um are they a county seat? Do they have a similar similar population? And out of like 80 ordinances and communities that we studied, we
distilled it down to 30. And um and we've got a stack this high. And and we just just immersed ourselves in in the language and in the the issues. And so
after we kind of got to a point where we thought, okay, we've got enough, we had a meeting here. Um, no, it was in the >> No, it was here. >> It was here. >> Seems so much smaller, but yeah. And and the police chief >> was here and Michael was here. I don't
know if Eric Por was >> Mike was here. And so we presented what we had done >> so far and um after that we all agreed that there was a missing
link to the process because just an analyzing ordinances was part of it. But we kept saying how are they going to be enforced, >> right? >> Can they be enforced? You know, you could have the most perfectly written
Harvard Law School treatis in front of you, but if the community or if the city government doesn't have the wherewithal to enforce or if >> Yeah. >> Yeah. chief talked about >> that's a tough thing because you know like
are we gonna have our police come out like every time there's like a loud party as much as >> well he police chief did say when we met him with him privately later it was or something >> you know he said it it's really helpful
if there is something to enforce you just can't be random rabbi how you're doing this and this some an ordinance would give him some teeth and we talked about you know what's better you know using decibb audible what types of things but it came
down to you know that there was like almost like two different kinds of noise and sounds there's there's what I what I call the acute you know the neighbors going crazy with the kids playing a boom box or something and all night long or something and then there's the chronic
sound of something going on somewhere where some business or some something that's doing and so how should they be handled the way same way differently how do you do this and then also we
discuss licensing you know licensing for organizations at big concerts you know that don't follow the rules even though they're told you know there probably should be a deposit that they don't get back or something you know Um, and so
there was all these different components, >> civil fines and everything. You talked about a lot, >> right? >> It was, you know, being able to talk with the individual department heads was great because we just listened, you know, we weren't there to gripe or
accuse. It was like, tell us what what's the problem from your end. And it's just amazing how helpful they were. I mean, the chief was almost like he could have done a standup comedy routine because he was so animated about this >> and and you know, he was saying, you
know, the the application the permitting process is too thin. There needs to be more oversight and that the application shouldn't be a yes no thing because he said, "What person is going to admit that they're doing to do something? It's
going to emit fumes, keep people up all night, ruin their hearing." Yes. Yes. Yes. Um so um and then from there we um I I met with the mayor to give her sort of a summary of where we were and
um we pretty much went into this year ready to submit but the budget process actually it was the end of last year when we met with the police chief and things were just so busy with the budget
session that we didn't have the momentum to keep people focused on that because all the other stuff was happening. >> And um so we continued to research and we continued to reach out. I had a quick meeting with Amy uh and we're going to
have another one um this Thursday. We had a great meeting with Michael Thorough last week and he had some amazing ideas that seem really doable and but that's really not what what we
feel is our responsibility and that's why we're happy that you invited us here because at this point we feel that what is needed is to go public >> because this really hasn't meant to be a
private under the radar kind of a endeavor. It was really seriously just immersion in research, but to make this more um transparent or not more to make this a transparent process
and also to get more input. We think that it would be important to have some kind of a public event. Uh Michael Thorose also suggested that. Um, so that's where I think the community relations committee could come in uh and be either a le liaison or the actual
supporter and sponsor of something like that and you know seems like it's really the time to do it. um as the city's planning and for housing and more and bringing more people and once
you start packing getting denser population noise can become a problem whether it's between people or whatever and you're going to have more businesses and things and it seems like to get something like this in place first instead of having it being reactionary
after there's issues that pop up and things I think um makes more sense. And we, you know, it, you know, maybe it started out with one issue in one precinct, but we want to make sure that everybody's included all over town, you
know, get some feedback. >> So, that's where we are. But if you have questions that we could answer or help us decide how to get to the next >> Well, I assume after we talk a bit more, you're going to have at least a draft to
give to the community relations board. I mean, you've done all this research. Are you going to narrow it down to a draft of what you came up with, or are you just going to hand over all the research and say, "Here you go." >> No. What we would really like is to either to either have the the mayor's office or
the committee convene >> like a public forum type thing. >> Yeah. It sounded like since I've been on the >> council, which is not a long time, we haven't done a public forum on a particular issue. Mayor, you you know,
you were on the council for a number of years. How how has that come together in the past? I mean, I've been to like the shares with Furcog and different things, but it's people who like who know how to do um community convening.
I mean, we could also work with Amy's office and pull together uh, you know, an evening, >> I think, >> come out and share your ideas. >> Yeah. I think Matt Conway pulled together that that first form at the John Zan Center >> and it's probably awkward in a sense because the mayor's the one who's going
to have to vote on this. So, yeah. Yeah. So I So I'm I'm a process person. So that's why I'm thinking like how how has this been done in the past? Um and not from the mayor but from the city council. >> So
I'm just going to say that in general the city council is the group that writes ordinances. >> Y >> So um that's where that would come from. Um and but I think having you know report
is important. I think um I think a new noise ordinance came up many years ago. Am I am I correct on >> Yeah. I think it was 2012 was the original one. It was submitted three times. It was vetoed three times. >> Right.
>> Uh councelor ma mass was the really the one that was pushing that but it failed three times. And so we found that one and I think there was another one even before that one. But uh >> you so they were doing that and then they added that to the pile while all
the research they were doing stuff >> and it comes from mass I had the same opinion that that they had no teeth. You couldn't enforce it defeat anything. So unless it was vetoed, you know,
>> excessive noise. >> Excessive noise. >> Can I ask a question? So if there's has there been enough research done and information gathered so one could craft an ordinance at this point that has
teeth? we start out. >> I would say that we've researched uh and read enough ordinances that we feel we could put a graph together. Perfect. But the
you know my feeling because I I really believe in public consensus >> and given that we've been working not secretly but just because we didn't need a huge group to be doing this this kind
of an analytical stuff. Um, but I do think that to just suddenly have an ordinance on the city council's desk, if I were somebody who hasn't been part of this process, I'd be going WTF, you know, I mean, come on.
>> Why didn't we know about this? I would have, you know, and I can imagine people around town, not too much wanting to vent because that's that's not the kind of event I'm thinking of. I'm thinking more of we will distill >> in a report the information that we've
collated where we think we could go. Um but then have like a visioning session an idea session where people say what if we tried this it should be very actionoriented and solutionoriented and not so much primal scream. I mean, I
could see I could see you having table groups by different topics and people can choose and >> speed dating. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um >> I think it would be important to make sure that there's representatives from everybody, not just
citizens, but from business, commercial people, too, because every they all have >> they know what they do and what it takes. And >> and Michael Nelson's really he said, "Let me know what's going to happen." seems eager to participate as well. But
so, but we feel that it needs that we as humble, you know, public servants or not, maybe you're the public servants. We're even lower than that, but you guys are >> higher. >> But but who's going to be the official person? Does that help to answer your question?
>> Well, the So, I work I'm also on the committee for uh appointments and ordinances. That's why I was asking the question because I would be willing to if there was a some kind of a draft even in crude form we could take it into
that committee and polish it and those meetings are open just like this meeting is and people can go on to the website and click onto the agenda and understand that that particular ordinance would be discussed and it would probably it would definitely go through more than one
meeting I'm sure >> because there's probably going to be a lot of interest in something like that. So that's why I was asking that question. If that's how you wish to proceed, that is one avenue. >> Yeah. I would just say whether it's a question of putting the cart before the
horse, I feel the public input >> needs to be in the front end of this so that then we we crunch it again. Yeah. And it's not going to take that long the second time because we already know the
general things that need to be recommended. But um >> you want to buy in so no one can say no one. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> So I think one of the things that we've been talking about in community relations is being able to talk about issues
um early in the process so that we get it right. >> Yeah. That's exact. Yes. >> Um yes, Council Brown. Um, just going back a little earlier, I was curious why the noise ordinances
were not passed before. >> The mayor said no. I mean, I, you know, for whatever reason, I'll have to go back and find the minutes from 15 years ago, but I guess the mayor just didn't think it was, it was his mayor, Martin, by the way. I don't think he felt that
it was sustainable or it was uh good for the community. I don't know what his real reasons were, but he vetoed it three times. could be enforcability. >> Mayor, um, so one of the things that I would think if you were going to do this, you'd want to make sure that you
invited business owners that you let them know. Um, one of the things that's come up several times with this are leaf blowers. And I think you'd have to make sure that you made a big outreach to all landscape
businesses. Yep. Um, uh, I'm just going to use as an example that people feel very strongly one way or another about that, but that is a huge impact, um, to anybody that owns that type of a business. And I certainly
could think of a reason why a mayor would um, veto something like that if it meant um, you know, several type people's businesses was going to go out of existence. So um you'd have to think of anybody's
business that that was going to affect ahead of time instead of many people I think would come forward who were bothered by noise. >> Those are the people that you would get that would come to the meeting. >> Sure. >> Then after the ordinance is in or when
it's almost done you get you know the other. So you have to think on the front end of to making sure that people who are going to be affected by that. Um, you know, we've thought of Michael Nelson in the fairgrounds, but did you think of the the other and I can't
actually aim if you can think of any other businesses other than landscape >> that are important trucking? >> Yeah. Trucking. Sure. >> I mean, councelor Master Toro talks about the the tree chippers,
>> right? construction. Um, >> you know, and a lot of the the ordinances we read had cutouts for certain things. >> Um, >> one of the things is not to be discriminatory about
an ordinance, you know, coming out and saying no leaf blowing. I think it's more of of um >> the you know lawn care equipment whether it's commercial or whether it's homeowners you know the homeowner that
goes out at 9:00 at night to blow his yard is >> you know is different than the landscape company that comes in and you know does it in an hour you know that thing. Well, the other thing too is that the the role is also it's kind of like
getting pregnant versus raising a child. You know, once this ordinance is in place, there's going to be a lot of ways that information can be created to help cultivate a culture of
reasonable behavior and respectful behavior. And some of the municipalities that we've studied um have made big efforts to incentivize say making transitions from gas powered two-stroke
machines to electric and maybe creating five-year buyback plan or I mean there's all kinds of things but it's just about building consensus and cooperation and finding ways that even once it's passed there's going to need to be a constant
way of encouraing encouraging people to think differently about ways to mitigate sound, be more cooperative, talk to their neighbors, um those kinds of things. Um but having some kind of coming out
party, so to speak, with the public just to say, I like the idea of, you know, going to different tables and say here's, you know, and let people know ahead of time. Some of it could be even put on a website questionnaire perhaps where people can weigh in and so ahead
of the event there's been a chance to distill information and um >> go ahead you can no >> so I think I think I had a council here and then I'll get a council in a minute >> um I just wanted to bring in the fact that sustainable green fields
implementation committee was considering a leaf blower um ordinance potentially a a ban and or restricted. We didn't really get that far, but a constituent brought that forward and um it could be interesting to team up with that person
or even sustainable green field implementation committee um around like we were talking about like oh if we had like a lending library of electric um leaf blowers or if um the city was able to put on its website like oh here's
this mass save rebate you can get for getting an electric leaf blower. just some um proactive education so that way it's not just like happening to folks. Um but yeah, just that those folks can be allies sustainable green field implementation committee for thinking about the leafblower side of things.
>> Yeah, that's great. Councelor Menos, >> uh two things. One, you guys mentioned something about there being some type of forum like this before that had occurred. >> Yeah, that was held in March. No, March. We have emergency
before. >> Yeah, it was city hall and it was um councelor Perry, Michael Nelson, and Matt Conway were sort of the moderator John >> and it was the John Zon center of we handed out flyers canvas to precinct 7.
I believe that um Matt Conway was able to reach out to other constituencies within precinct 7, but the people who came I guess word got out that this was happening and a lot of people from other precincts also came.
So it was not it was more of just a stand up and have a couple of minutes to speak. wasn't really like a an interactive process and it was really more onedirectional because it wasn't you know brainstorming solutions. It was like I'm sick of this kind of venting
but you know it was cathartic but there wasn't any specific thing in terms of decision making um at that one. I'm because the reason I asked that is I'm kind of thinking of what Patty said about potentially if we could merge the
two ideas where some type of a rough draft is brought to like ANO and then ANO has a public uh hearing in which people can talk with counselors or are you guys envisioning something that's like bigger scale? I like the
idea of maybe and maybe it's January doing a community forum that could have the draft but allowing people to be part of the solution, right? What are what are
the things that we can do? Um, you know, either you guys threw out some great ideas about leaf blowers and other things. So, it could go in tandem with ANO because I know ANO is going to be busy until January, I'm sure, with the
all of the updates that we're doing to ordinances right now because we're in that like is it 10 year cycle? >> Um, does that >> Yeah, I think does that feel good to this committee that like we can help throw the party? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. And also the communities
might be changing a little bit depending on the new chairs and that sort of stuff. The new council the council is not changing that much but there are going to be three new people that will have to be you know moved around and stuff. I think an outline like if you had something like that and there was an
outline of the topics as opposed to you know already written ordinance just because people are going to come without >> this is their first approach all these things you have to think about that you know when we read oh I didn't think about that I didn't think about that so you'd have an outline of the spec some
of the specifics so people could discuss them yeah and how they feel about it I think that's a good way to go >> but get it to you know as soon as possible Sure. >> And so especially knowing that that would be the logical next step that you
know would help us when we frame the party. >> Great. And you've got counselor Williams who is uh interested in helping to bring that forward. So that's great. >> I totally had a half hour. >> Perfect.
>> Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. and you know >> so we we'll be in touch to to figure out the next steps. So I think um within this committee we can schedule uh I I'm hoping Jonathan might be able to help with with that maybe.
>> Well I just wanted to say publicly thank you thank you thank you very much. You guys have really been the driving force in the engine for the last 18 months really. And so you know this neighborhood this precinct 7 neighborhood network is really a fantastic thing. you got you had two,
you know, the forum this going on. You're doing good work uh being community uh advocates and you're doing a great job. So, thank you very much. >> We're glad to do it. It's it's interesting and challenging and it helps to get the information out. >> Yeah.
>> So that you can contact people, you know, >> even if they don't come to all the meetings, they get a loser. This is pretty on the back. >> Thank you for your humor, too. >> Yeah, I love that.
>> Front and back. Very fun. And we can all use a joke. >> If someone would >> um if you want to make sure to send that to me digitally. Sorry I'm not there in person, but I would love to see the handout. >> Okay. I'm >> just gonna laugh at the joke. We're not
going to share it with you. New York. It's a New Yorker cartoon. >> Mayor and Amy, also if there are folks that within city government that you think would be good to help with plannery type of people to think about
how this could best be pulled off. >> Have a good night, ladies. Thank you for coming. >> My department's the right facilitator. I think all of you are, but I'm >> I've done my share of charetses and my table events.
Y my team to help. >> I love about meeting design. So my nerdness. Awesome. All right. So we're going to move on to our next topic. Uh so we are
talking about Greenfield's process for resolving issues with problematic building. So I know it's been in the paper. Um, and this committee doesn't oversee any of that, but I think, you know, again, like how can we use community relations to
get ahead of things so that it's like not front page of the paper, but um can work in in tandem with EDC because I think EDC is going to ask different questions than we're going to ask, which is like how do we engage people in this process so that they feel heard or um or
that there's a process Thank you for bringing us forward. We appreciate it. >> Um, so you asked us to come tonight. Um, we did. >> Yeah. Um, Mark Snow actually
asked us to reconvene. This was a group that used to meet um the building inspector and the health department, fire inspection, police department, mayor's office.
Um and um I think it was like over eight years ago that they used to meet and um they'd had great success with the uh what do we call it? Non-compliant uh no property compliance property
compliance meetings. >> Okay. >> So we started meeting I think this we'll be having our third meeting. Yep. Right. We'll be going on to our third meeting. >> Okay. Um so we we will be having our third
meeting of this. We have about 30 parcels. Um most of them are actually not cityowned. Um most of them are are um privately owned. Um and so we are
meeting to see if we can make things better. Mhm. >> Um and I will speak about a few of them uh that you know um councelor Williams has brought one of those to my attention. You're each one of you who's a city
councelor has one or two in your own precinct or more depending on which precinct you're in. Some precincts have a I would say precincts seven and five have a whole lot have you know many
um but it could be a parcel such as the um such as one on school street that had a fire in it. >> Yeah. um what is happening with this parcel, you know, with a building that is standing, you know, several months after
a fire that is problematic for the neighborhood, right? >> And um it so so we began meeting to see how we can help. Um, and what do you s suggest
as a process like should city councilors I you know I contact you mayor if there's a parcel in our precinct that we're concerned about that is falling into disrepair to as the first step like >> I think the challenge is that each
parcel has its own unique set of circumstances and so for some fire might know about it but not building or health might know about it but not economic like they're all so diverse that there's a central clearing place. So I think >> that was my first reaction. Yeah.
>> I was going to ask you mayor when you become aware of this as an issue when you became mayor. >> Well people started people reached out to me almost immediately. Um because that's where everybody goes with any problem that they have. I would
say that hasn't been remedyed. Um it it's in their neighborhood. So, I'm I would just say councelor Bulock reached out to me, what about these a couple of these parcels that have multiple cars
>> in their neighborhood. I just had somebody write to me not not an hour ago and I just sent it to myself again to move it to the top because I didn't have time to write back to this woman. It's in Whose precinct is it? I think it's in
six or might be in yours, Patty. Okay. Um and um it was, you know, something in the something that's not safe, something that is that the neighbor feels
um that is unsafe and most of the time it's pretty unsafe. >> Uh it's a safety hazard and that's where we go at it from. And it is not a public meeting um because you're discussing
you know we take great care to take >> privacy issue >> take care of things and >> well you don't want neighbors who are tattling on somebody or saying because some of it might be untrue so you don't want it to be a public meeting until it's actually >> we had one parcel I'm just going to give you an example when we all gathered
together we had one parcel that no one could find the owner for it kept Uh they were looking for the person for eight years, right? Something like that. >> Eight years. >> And we're all in the meeting and um
and it's been was an abandoned parcel >> that's in terrible disrepair. And I was using my humor and I said, you know, whoever could find this person gets a prize. Um and then I was just
joking. Just joking. this is a public meeting. I said, "Of course, it will have to be under $50." And then I said, "But of course I'm not very wealthy. It will be under 25." >> And you know, during the course of the meeting, um, you know, I said, "And police and
fire have you have an unfair advantage because they have, you know, they can use the internet in a, you know, they have more resources." And so they were actually able to track down this person who actually still lived here in Greenfield
>> um in another in another place and um they did a wellness check on her and other house and we could get to her to ask about this other parcel that had been abandoned for years that you know we were unable to find out anything out about just left in disrepair. Imagine if
you were the neighbor of So it all came about about with every good intention and then yes um at at times the it didn't always appear that way from the from either listening to everybody else or reading everybody else but it
certainly the intention was to make it safer as in the one council Williams brought forward with is a a fire or something with his you know 25 cars. Go ahead. I'm going to let you talk on it. But I just want to I wanted to mention I got called up by their counselor and I was kind of like, well, how would I
know? I mean, isn't ask the city. I mean, how how am I supposed to know as a counselor what in my precinct are have already been established as delinquent or whatever, right? >> You know, it's >> no and we shouldn't know. >> But that was a kind of that was kind of
like, well, how the freak would I know? or unless, you know, I would go and drive around the neighborhoods and look, you know, until someone told me, "Hey, there's an issue with so and so's house at 14, whatever." You know, I wouldn't know. >> And certainly, we were not looking for
anything. We nothing. We didn't go looking for anything. Someone would call or usually several neighbors would call. I was probably here about a month.
I I did like six or seven calls on on one and then there was another one in short order on another street where I'm telling you I've probably gotten 50 emails on that one that that one's not >> I think many are known quantities. They're just challenging because of the
particularities of >> Sure. >> each parcel. Yeah. >> Right. And that's why we weren't really an making an announcement about that. each one we would try, you know, I visited with one person, you know, just taking a
walk and talk to them to >> But I think that's the benefit of bringing that big group back together and getting them to meet regularly again is we're all able to just review all the properties together and um swap and make sure that we all have the same information or get updates on what
>> and maybe copy in the counselor that just so they're aware of what's going on so it's not a surprise or not, you know, for me I I was kind of embarrassed because I what what was I gonna say? Yeah, I guess I should have known but I didn't. You know, >> things aren't big. You can't know what
you should have known what >> there was certain properties in my precinct I should have been aware of and you know I should have been bringing them to your attention and d you know >> and I wasn't telling anybody. >> No, not not you not said city hall. No counselor just trying to one up me
really but that's fine but it was still embarrassing. >> Right. So, >> so can can I ask a question? >> Sure. >> Good. So, um on a situation like this, I know the particular situation we've talked about on School Street that the
owner of the building was missing an action on his boat for a month. Uh and then now the latest I heard and that that the latest being probably about a month ago that he's having trouble with the insurance company. So, but it seems to me that there's situations where
people go through some kind of song and dance, etc. in terms of their lack of taking responsibility for >> this this situation. And I know the place on School Street, I mean, raccoons have moved in, rats are there, people
are dumping trash on the lot. It's a And I just got a second call from another neighbor in the area who's concerned about it as well. I've been dealing with the folks next door, but the the the I would hope that I I'm glad to hear that
there is a reconvening of a number of departments to take on the question because yes, there's a number of properties that uh need to be dealt with and I hope that a procedure is put in place to force the owners to take
responsibility for the situation. However that gets done, I don't know what the legal ramifications are. I don't know if there's precedent set in other cities to deal with this kind of issue that might uh we could benefit
from some investigation on that. I don't know. But >> I was going to say in fairness to the school street land board. >> Are you are you are you finished? Councelor Williams. >> I'm sorry. >> Uh the fire took on school street took place in March. M
>> you know it is now November and and it seems like there needs to be a far more expedient way of dealing with it that needs to be figured out and I don't have the legal knowledge by any means to figure it out but I I do
sympathize with the frustration of the folks who are living next door to this you know so hopefully there can be some kind of policy and procedure set in place so accountability can happen.
That's all I want to say about it. >> Yeah. >> Do you all have a response? I just want to and then I can go to Perry. I >> I was just going to mention I knew someone who lived at the school street apartment. So the day the fire I stopped by. And I did ask one of the fire captains. So what happens to a building
like this when it's wrecked like this? He said, well, you know, insurance he just had nothing to do with we're talking about, but he just said off the cuff, well, you know, insurance takes forever, so I'm just going to sit here for a year. So insurance is an issue. He said that off the cuff having no knowledge of anything other than the
question I asked specific to that property because I knew a kid that lived there. >> So insurance does take a while, you know, >> but what I I guess what what's the ability of the city to make sure that the property owner makes the
place safe in the interim? >> Sure. you know, whether it's a fence around it or something, you know, that and I I have no idea what the what the rules are and who does it fence around. >> There's a fence around it. >> So, I want to answer C. May I answer
councelor William? >> So, um to answer your question, um it's first of all, it's it's not fast enough. Okay. um with it's not fast
enough in my opinion. >> You're correct. The insurance does take a long time. Um and um initially that was made sure that it was
it was boarded up. That building is going to have to come down. Um there are a few of them that actually have to come down. What I didn't know until I think probably until the last meetings how much it costs like to take a building
down. Um it it could be like up to about $100,000 to take a building down and we don't have that set aside. Knowing that that's going to that that money is going to come in to somebody's insurance. I
think we decided on our list that you know of things that we own. There's one there's two that we own that need to come down. Um so to spend
the city money on the that one and you know of course the other two are not in good shape either. Um so finding the person so you know I finding the person who's not responding
and you know finding them weekly etc. That's that's probably the remedy for that one. I think that's what was decided >> on that one to find them the max for what they could do to make it as you know in this particular instance for
that particular one. Each one is an individual situation what you can do. Um, and when we get as many people in there as possible and sometimes you find somebody in the group that knows that person, but
that person actually does I thought probably have the means. So, that was not city money was going to be taking that one down. Um, >> I think it's hard to find a I know you're looking for a procedure, which I
would love a good procedure, but again, I think because each case is so different, the the problem with each property could be different and the city department, which might be monitoring or finding or, you know, maintaining that
property is going to be different. And it makes it it's hard to say like, well, if you're in non-compliance for 60 days, we're going to find you $5,000 because that 60 days could look very different if the issue is a building that hasn't come down because of insurance versus a
building with squatters and an abandoned property versus, you know, some other scenario. So, I I feel like building inspection and health department each have their own pathways that are procedure-like. Um, but it's hard to have one uniform
procedure for every single challenging property. Might be helpful to know like what's in your toolbox, >> you know, so if there's fines from the health department or from, you know, building inspect, like where are the different levers that you have?
>> And Mark is Mark is looking at that. >> Okay. We have something that's going like there's something that he's going to be working with you on foreclosed and foreclosing looking at the the fines that are associated with that. Um that's why we bring people
together what fines that there can be. Um we do know if anything has a a hole in it that's a huge that's terrible because we don't want anybody in there, >> right? um whether you own it or not, it has to
be sealed up. So, you know, each one of those a lot of times they're on the list for, you know, lack of compliance because there's a hole >> and then then you could have people that get inside. I just checked on one today
that's one that we own. Um, and I could see the, you know, it's all boarded up, but one in the back, the the covering on one of the windows was pulled off. And I thought that, you
know, I had three kids. I can see one of my kids getting in there, >> you know. Um, we don't want that because it's a it's a it's a real hazard. It's a real risk for fire, etc., etc. They need to be sealed up. So, and
we are we send city staff out if we own the building to board it up to, you know, and we certainly have done that. Um, we make it so that people can't exit access the driveway, putting logs in the front
if people are illegally dumping tires. I forget where we did that, but DPW brought logs to one that we own because people were dumping tires there. So for each parcel it's a different things. Those are for the ones that we own. The ones that we don't own, they're told to
immediately, you know, seal that up and they go back and they have to remedy it within a, you know, like 24 hours. >> Okay. >> I'm I'm picturing like a chart that's just like if this then this happens and then you like that keeps branching out.
But um counselors I cuz I I'm looking at the time and I guess I I know that these guys are working on it. What's our role in this? How how do we want to engage in this process? So I
want I want suggestions brown. >> And this was sort of going back to earlier, but I can also try and bring suggestions in as well. Um, but first off, just like I appreciate that you're um working on this because I think uh
this is just it's causing blight and getting these properties back online is good just for our tax base and just to have um functional homes. So, I think that that's something that ideally everyone can get behind. Um, like
whether or not you however you felt about the ballot question or whatever, like this is something that's just positive for our community. Um, as long as there's like a proper procedure and process that feels like fair and people are notified and it's not, you know, properties aren't just like being taken
away, which I don't think is what's happening. >> No. >> Yeah. Exactly. But yeah, just so this feels very positive. And then just something I'm curious about is I have some properties in mind and I'm wondering if there's a list of non-compliant properties cuz I would
love to know like are the ones I have in mind already flagged or should I be letting people know? And then also is that separate than the I have like the list of registered vacant properties. So, I'm assuming this is like the illegal vacant or non-compliant
properties list. Is that is is it possible to make it accessible to the public that list? Would that that might be like a or it's what? >> No, I don't think we would make that. That's an internal list. Um, again, because every circumstance is different. It's it's different than registered
vacants. >> That's not too bad because that would be my suggestion. I I hear what you're saying because I think one of the feedback I got when you mentioned the front page story I think people just kind of surprise I heard people say what 30 freaking properties what are you talking about but also because the
building the property compliance uh commission didn't meet for eight years that's across three administrations and so people probably wonder why didn't it meet why did that process stop because you know maybe we wouldn't be here had that meeting people would been
more aware and there would have been more process going on, you know, within the group to move some of those properties. That's so that's that's just a lesson of learn >> about, you know, government could have maybe done a little bit better. >> Yeah.
>> Council man, do you have >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Do you want to say something? >> Well, I have no idea why people didn't do things. Mark Snow said, "I think maybe this would be a good idea if we brought this together." And the reason that you bring people together is you
have, you know, you've got the fire department, the police department. The police department was the one that found the person an abandoned home on a street, I think, in your precinct, an abandoned home that no one had been able to find the owner of. And then everybody got together and sure enough, we found
that that person. So then, you know, someone would speak to that person, be like, you know, okay, what do you want to do? Several of these have been condemned, you know, that we don't own. Um, and but if they're condemned, you
know, they could be dangerous, >> you know, hazardous. So, you know, what is the next step there? But I have no idea why something wasn't done. Um, but from this day forward, it's only there's no attempt here. It has nothing to do
with money. It is to make something better. If you lived next to something where you had either it was about to fall down on top of you like the one that I took pictures of today, you would you might be afraid to have that next to you or you know be
afraid to live next to that um for fear that there would be a fire or something hazardous happening there. I mean >> brings down property values and >> y >> people have been you know we've been talking about housing and people are
saying like oh there's other places so this is a way to you know address >> but you wouldn't publish that if you didn't own that because that would be you know it was just like what could we do about this about something that was
condemned and something that someone hadn't done anything about >> right well maybe just 1 through 30 with a status. You don't have to name the property. Just so people know there's action being taken, you know, in insurance pending or what people can list. I mean, the goal isn't to shame
people. >> No, no, no. I'm saying 1 2 3 4 5 10. So, status pending insurance uh being raised on number >> no property addresses. >> No, no, just a number. Property number one, property number two. No addresses,
just a status. So people we see that >> you can do like red, yellow, green like some are you know. >> Yeah. Just so people have a people who want to follow this because maybe you know they know that number three is >> I'm happy to bring that back to the property group and
>> okay see what reaction they makes me hesitant. Um but I get your point and if no property addresses are attached then >> so couple things. Um, one I just want to confirm what was in the paper. Is it so there's around like 30 delinquent slash
like just shady properties out of which there's like six that the city owns. Is that the case? >> Um, yeah. I think maybe like five that the city own. >> Okay. >> Four or five. Mhm. of the ones that the
city doesn't own what >> most >> what is the plan like what can the city do or is that what you're saying that each they're doing something is separate each one is separate so there are a couple that I know are um working their
way through the receiverhip process I think there are a couple that are maybe need to come down but we either need to find the owner or need to they have to figure out how to find the funds to take them down um I think there are a couple where they've been abandoned and we need to figure out how to deal with that.
Like that it's sort of the >> it's like each case is a different >> It is a different thing. Okay. >> Different in ways that I couldn't have ever appreciated until I started going property by property and they're each >> because you might have absentee landlord
situation versus, you know, somebody who's in a nursing home who didn't know she has property anymore. So I think our like what and this committee but might be the best this conversation might be the most apt with us is
I think it's very important to realize and to acknowledge that we are living through an economic crisis. Um, people are struggling. >> Mhm. >> And when people just see a headline without other people, without city
officials being like, "Okay, this is an issue. This is what we want to try to do about it." And they just see a headline. People are like, "Oh my god, I haven't fixed this in my kitchen. I haven't done that." And I don't have $40,000 to fix my porch, which has fallen down. Oh my god, is the city going to come and take
my house? Are they going to condemn my house? Am I going to be out of a home? because that's a serious concern for a lot of people and I don't want to just call them, hey, you're stupid. Like that's not a reality. You're just dumb. It's a genuine fear that people are
having. And I think the best way to tackle that is just if we message it correctly and that might just be saying it over and over again, like, hey, we're not after people's homes. That's not what's going on. We're not trying to steal properties. We're not trying to
rip the your home out from under you. And I think what Patty's saying about a process, if there's any type of thing that we can just say or at least just a reassurance to people like, hey, okay, if your property is potentially becoming
delinquent or in in this case, these are the resources that we have. This is what you can do in order to not fall down this path or if you are in this path, this is what we can do, right? These are the funds. These are some grants that you can apply for. These are the departments that you can reach out to.
We're not here to just be like bad person. You're like cuz I mean yeah there might be some like horrible like like multi-million dollar like landlords in Greenfield like there's maybe a few but the vast majority are people who are just living
>> who are on a fixed income or they're just struggling and especially given the economic you know >> time that we are in people are struggling. It's like, do I pay for my medicine? Do I pay for like these grocery prices or do I like And then on
top of that, you got a big giant uh headline where, oh my god, 30 prophets and they're like, "Oh, am I one of them? What's going on?" >> And I I want to say like having looked at some of the pictures, um, we're not talking about somebody's porch that's falling off. We're talking about buildings that are caving in that
nobody's in. These are vacant. They're not >> say this is these are long time. If you're you would know I feel pretty confident that your property was on this unless you were completely unaware that you owned it. I mean this is not like a building that yeah needs a couple of new
windows or stairs on the front. >> I think if that message can just be said like okay this is not about you know somebody who might not have the funds to do a little fix up. This is about like properties that are under serious. >> Well, I think we as counselors have the
ability to to forward that message. >> And this is why I want to like say it, but I mean I don't know how many people would be watching this, but a lot of people can't get through the payw wall on the recorder and they just see that and they're like, "Holy my house is going to be gone." >> But we're also on social media and I've
seen posts and things that were inaccurate about this. So, I think that's >> important. Council Brown, >> um I wanted to ask how this relates to the vacant and foreclosing property ordinance that we currently have cuz
that states that there's like $300 I was just pulling it up. $300 to register and then a $300 fine weekly. And are these like are any of these being fined once there's been communication? like how like I know this
isn't to make money but what is that financial side of it looking like? >> So that for it says foreclosing >> foreclosing. It says foreclosing in the language >> and foreclosing. >> It says foreclosing.
>> Yes, that's what it actually says in the language. that needs an adjustment because if the property is foreclosed, we have one we have one that's foreclosed that a bank owns.
Um and uh that couldn't be fined because it wasn't foreclosing, it's foreclosed. Uh so um the the language in that um needed adjusting so that it it
it could be it it could be adjusted. So in that case it was just to bring that one to bring it to the attention of the bank. And the worst one uh the most difficult ones to deal with is something that's bankowned. You know the person does not
live here. It might be a vacant property that's owned by a bank in California. There's no one in it, etc., etc. No one is in it. It's vacant. No one is in it. And um
again, you know, many of them many of them the the complaint is that the property is not secured. And so the building inspector goes out and the you know the fire department they would go out the building must be secured so that
nobody can get in there so that we don't have anybody um in a building that is condemned or hazardous to them. You you don't want somebody in a place like that. >> Mayor, what was I hearing you that we
need to update the foreclosing ordinance and >> Yes. >> was new language sent to ANO as part of the ordinance review or do we need to >> No, I I wrote to councelor Golib and to you, I think. >> Yeah.
>> Mark Snow and and Mark was um I think I don't know who is going to work on that, but Mark Snow had some some suggestions for that. >> Okay. >> And um he definitely had some suggestions for that. So, if somebody could work with Mark Snow on that, it
was just this is to alert it's, you know, the bank to sit up and and pay attention. They they had one long-standing one which is is just problematic to the n the neighbors. >> Okay. Um, so I'm just gonna >> know that and I'll follow up with
councelor Gol on that. >> I'm actually just seeing that counselor Golib asked me if I was to um work on this and I'm interested in working on this so I can follow up with Mark Snow and and everyone.
>> Thank you Sarah. Um, well, I appreciate this conversation and I know it's just the beginning part, you know, and I think part of the reason of us wanting to have this conversation is because what you were saying,
Councelor Minos, that, you know, people hear this and they're like, "Oh, no, what's going on?" So, you know, we want to as much transparency that we can have legally >> um as well as protecting people's privacy um and and how can we have better
procedures or at least know what the procedures are >> so that we can inform folks um and and know that you you know if it's written down that you've like worked for five years or whatever it is to try and find the owner and been able to that that's
re reassuring. So that >> Yeah. >> Right. But I just want to say out loud publicly where you had said that and you had said that that had nothing to do why this was this was started with the
inspector like we needed more people to get together because the health inspector and the building inspector that wasn't enough to make things safe. I mean what counselor um in in all instances almost every
single instance was a safety issue that was brought up by a neighbor. It was a safety issue that you know one that I am still working on diligently is one where I have probably like 10
neighbors. So I had two two of two houses with you know probably 10 neighbors each that were very concerned about safety things that were happening in those two houses and one was rectified and the other is not you know now and that's why they come to the city
they call one way or another >> and you know there's a >> you know an open you know manhole cover or something somebody's yard some call and it's or an
open doorway. People are are are afraid >> that something will happen there, that something will happen to a child. The one that I got tonight that I will write back to before the end of tonight after I go home. They're afraid about it's the neighbor next door that's writing. That's usually what happens. And that's
what happens with council Williams. And we are Patty. I excuse me, Council Williams. I just said to like let's take care of that as best as we can with that one within reason because and I you know I also want to look at a way that we are
putting some money aside in case we do need to knock something down not not of anyone else's. >> I don't want any I want no one's property >> and we've taken no property and we paid >> you know I made sure that we settled
that home equity thing. We have no interest whatsoever in doing that. Yep. >> And the the three or four that we own, it's like forever. >> We've owned them well before I got here. 15 years or 10 years. >> I think that assurance goes like a long
>> had nothing to do with that. Nothing like the whole world here that >> that keep your own. We're not going over and looking to see if your portraits it is really difficult right now. You go to the grocery store and you get two bags for $100. >> Yeah. Exactly. So that's well we
certainly understand that. >> Thank you very very very much. I know this is frustrating work and especially when the paper gets involved and people get involved but I know it's frustrating but you're doing a good job and just keep going. >> I appreciate when people are paying attention >> and I think that's important and people just want to be heard and people want to
make sure the feedback's coming back. I think that's part of this but it's about just the feedback Uber making. >> I mean that's that's why we're trying to use this committee so that it's before it becomes a thing >> right. we we've already addressed it. So, and this is, you know, so thank you very much for taking a nerd another
evening out of your your wife to come over and talk to us, you know, but >> All right, counselors. Um, any last parting comments? Um, >> yes. Just I just wanted to note that uh so I go to the senior center uh several
mornings a week to exercise and a number of the ladies were thrilled with the front page of the paper saying that that Mayor Jenny was in fact taking on some of the this issue of these abandoned houses because every one of them knew
about one or two of them in in close to their own neighborhood. So there's I think the you know people read something and there's many interpretations of it but I think there is was a strong interpretation at least amongst the senior population that this was good
work that was going on >> um from city hall. So thank you >> thank you council. >> Thank you. Thank you everybody. So, our next meeting is on December 15th. Um,
and we'll be well into the uh holiday mayhem. So, um, >> I'll bring the fruit cake. >> Okay. Fantastic. >> We will >> we'll have some was sailing.
>> All right. So, um, I need a motion to adjurnn. So moved >> and second from councelor Minhas and um those in favor um I'm in favor. >> Thank you. Uh councelor Williams.
>> Yes. >> Councelor Brown. >> Yes. >> Councelor Minhos. >> Yes. >> Councelor Perry. >> Yes. >> Okay. We are adjourned. >> Thank you everybody. >> Everybody who came Thanks. >> Thank you.