Yeah. Okay. Welcome everyone. Welcome everyone to the zoning board of appeals meeting on July 10th, 2025 or meeting in city hall in Greenfield, Massachusetts. Um chair statement. This meeting is being recorded by the zoning board of appeals. Any other persons present are
doing the same. You must notify the chairperson at this time in accordance recording. Okay. Thank I was I read it so robotically I didn't even realize what
I didn't say anything. In accordance with match general laws chapter 38 section 20G, no person shall address a meeting of a public body without permission of the chair and all persons shall at the request of the chair be silent. No person shall disrupt the proceedings of a meeting of a public
body. If after clear warning from the chair, a person continues to disrupt the proceedings, the chair may order the person to withdraw from the meeting. And if the person still if the person does not withdraw, the chair may authorize a constable or other officer to remove the person from the meeting. So everyone's
warned. So roll call of members. Members here are Charles Roberts, Jim W, Debbie Jokes, Mark Maloney, Eric Green, David Singer. Okay. So the first public hearing that's scheduled was um Deb can I have well just is it okay if I have
you read the be the check? Yeah sure. Um so con so continued from June 12, 2025 is um the application of Roxan Crocker M uh
Maker and Nicholas Powski for property located 110 James Street assessor's tax map 18 lot 6 which is located in the urban residential zoning district for variance pursuant to sections 200-8.7 of the zoning ordinance in order to
allow an accessory structure woodshed to be located within the front yard setback area. Are uh Roxan or Nicholas here? Either here or online. All right. So, for the benefit, yeah, I'm just concerned that I'm not seeing anyone online. It's just very
unusual, but I I just says participants. You want to come around see if I'm missing something? I can't imagine. I apologize for the extra time here. I don't want to do it. I mean, usually Yeah, we usually have at least two or three.
Yeah, cuz I'm like on vacation. It may not just be an exciting topic for people to to join in, but I don't see anything. Yeah, turned it on. Started the meeting about the feds. This is recording
setbacks. I'll say something about not right now. That's no I I sorry. Did you go online? I did. Is there anyone else there? No.
Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. That's a good idea. There it is. It just came up, Nate. Oh, that was you. Yeah. Yeah. But the shows that we can come in. Okay. So, um the information that we got from um Eric
was that the applicants have applied for relief from the building inspector, but have not submitted um evidence that other properties that are adjacent to their property have the same or less
frontage, which would qualify them for the uh the uh for the frontage to be less than the 25 ft. Um we have not heard from the applicants, but um you know I would like to uh I'd still like
to give them a chance to to be successful in their endeavor and um so I'll take a motion to continue. Now Deb, you had asked about timing. Uh the statute says that we have to we
have to hold the hearing within 65 days of the application. So when we get to September, we will be past the 65 days. So we've asked the applicant uh I'm sorry, wrong one. This is for the last one. Yeah, that was the last. Okay. So this one can just go through.
It's a continuence and we'll just leave this on on there. So motion to continue. So move second. Any discussion? Okay. Before I do that, I'll give you please I'll give you one minute to make a comment if you think it's beneficial. I live right around the corner. I
support their uh having this woodshed within the uh front setbacks. Uh I know that there's uh some concerns about uh timing. Uh Roxan is about to have a kid. Their mother's moving in. I think it's within the zoning board of appeals power
to offer their or exercise their discretion and I think they shouldn't miss it. Okay. Thank you. Just so you know, if you haven't followed it, um they were told another way that they could do this. They would have to move it, but another
way they could do it where they would have the flat surface and it would it would solve all their problems. So, if you want to help them, you can let them know that they they still need to comply with the zoning ordinance in the sense that they have to get other properties
that in their neighborhood that have less frontage to show that there's a consistent there's a consistency with their frontage and other properties near them. Sorry, just as a point of clarity, do you mean setback or Yes. Okay. So, there's four other houses next to them that have similar or lower setbacks
than them. French setbacks. Mhm. So that qualifies them for their setback to be allowed as a as another type of allowed setback. If if you read the zoning, if they read the zoning carefully, they'll see that. So if you have connections with them,
let them know that they really need to abide by that or else the building inspector is not going to do anything. They've had a month. So I don't know what's they've had a month while they're eight months. Correct. I understand. But they're in the system,
so I don't want to have them be prejudiced. Okay. So, it's good that you spoke. Thank you. All right. Uh, all in favor So, who who's on this panel? Uh, I was here last time. Okay. So, the four of us on the panel,
all in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Okay. Any abstensions? No. So, passes unanimously. Okay. So, next, can you please read the 6:30 application? Sure. Um application of Nathaniel a trip for
property located at 99 meadow lanes assessor's map R34 lot 99 which is located in the rural residential zoning district respectful permit pursuits to sections 200-53E2 and 200-8.3 of the zoning ordinance in order to
allow up to 20% reduction of the required 20ft sideyard setback to allow the construction of a new garage at this location. I think on the panel are Jim W
Maloney is is a trip here. You can step forward please. Thank you folks for having me uh this evening. Do I speak now or do you Okay. Yeah. What are you what what are you uh what are you doing? Where you're doing it? Why you doing? So, uh, first
thank you all for your service on these boards. I think that this is not the first time for many of you. Um, my family is requesting uh essentially a a three feet from the 20 foot sideline
setback. uh enabled to enable us to put a essentially make some improvements to our home which will make our house much more functional and operational uh for our family going forward. And also uh as
part of this would be the addition of the garage which will also be more fun so we can drive straight into it. Um, and to do that and to make it work, uh, we have to, uh,
hopefully be able to cut into that setback line, uh, by 3 ft. Uh, the garage is within the character of the neighborhood. Um, we're not changing any any use. Um, we're just looking to make our house
function a little bit better for this. And I believe uh, you all have plans. If anybody doesn't, I have a couple of extra sets. Be happy to speak to any questions. Let's go on a page called site two is the is what shows for the record the uh
the location of the new garage and the 17 foot sideline setback. I don't see that. What site is what cup of cheese? I didn't find that. Yeah, I did not have site two on mine. I had to have Eric send me electronics. No, mine did not have it.
I had to figure it out from I figured out by looking at this plan mentioned, but I didn't have that one. I didn't get about it. Oh, no. I I'm all set. I got Yeah, it just if I if I refer to that, you want me to pass it around if you don't want to see it? That's
I'm all set. I'm all set, too. I understand it. My my apologies if if I did or staples copying of my state. What's that? I see what you said. It was just the one page. I think
Yeah, it was confusing because I I was thinking there's Okay. So, this this is what you intend to do, correct? That that's correct. Uh we have a local contractor on board. H what do you have there?
This is this is the uh the first floor plan of the garage which actually has the setback dimension on this plan where I Yeah. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Oh, no. I'm not sure I have anything more to add, but I'm happy to respond to any questions.
Okay. Uh Okay. Any questions from the board? You're going to turn the existing garage into bedrooms and a mud room for the children, right? And then you're going to add a new garage facing the street. Uh yeah, not not a bedroom, more
more of a place that teenagers can hang out and have a safe space to be uh in a in a mud room. Any other questions? Um, I didn't see any correspondence from neighbors. Have you talked to your neighbor immediately to the right of your house about it? Are they aware of
the plan? They are. I spoke just before I came here and he wished me luck with all of you today. Uh, and that's uh, Mr. Steiner. Oh, okay. Go ahead. And the other question I have, this is you intend this space to be used for
personal space. There's no intent to like at some point make that a daycare. It's just a really large space for recreational. So, I just was curious if you had these long-term plans or if it was just meant for use for your for your family. It just just for our family. I No more
kids in my house. We we uh so it it will just be a recreational space um and a baby room. Again, I I have a my oldest is going into freshman year high school and I've got
three coming behind and uh you know, we're just looking for a space that we can So, that's kind of we're converting the existing garage into that type of space and then hopefully we'll have a garage that we can actually park in. Um
so, that's what we're shooting for. Yeah, there be an upstairs room in this. You got an unfinished garage and that is intended to have tools and a you know table saw and a
a garage use possibly. Yeah. Question. Okay. Put you on hold for a second. Anybody here have anything to say about this application? Anybody on online have anything to say?
iPhone have anything to say about uh this application? Okay. Um and no other questions. Okay. I'll close the public hearing. Why don't we take a vote? Does that work? Yes. Yeah. Okay. I hear a motion. I'll make a
motion and we approve the application of Nathan A. trip for property located at 99 me lane testic map R34 lot 99 which is located in the rural representative RC zone district for a special permit
pursuance of section 200-53E2 and 200-8.3 of the zoning ordinance in order to allow up to a 20% reduction of the required 20ft sideyard setback to allow the construction of new garage at this
location. So, uh, subject to the following conditions, the following conditions. Okay. I get a second. Second. Any discussion? Anybody want to add? The only condition I would have that this uh um special permit
incorporates all the applicants submitts so that the that the building will be done based on your submittals. So if you make any material changes to this, you may have to come back for another special.
You're pretty good, but you're pretty sure we we've thought through this. We've Okay. It's not like it's a No, it's not like it's a penalty. It's just it'll just be a help. Happy to come back if if we make something. Okay. I think this is no penalty. Okay. So incorporates by reference the application materials
including site two as the uh of the submittals as the representation of the locate of the setback of garage. Any other conditions hearing? None. Okay. All in favor say I.
I. Any opposed? Let the record show it was unanimous. You know, there's a 20-day right of appeal uh that uh starts once we submit the uh the decision, which probably will be submitted next week. All right. Thank you, folks. Appreciate
that. Good luck. Hey, 6:45. Well, I know you gave me I I I know we usually wait, but I feel like in this case, unless anybody thinks any of the and the only one that has any real questions is a little is your the
building inspector's uh comments, but we we'll hear Sarah second. Okay. And um Okay. Is it 6:45? It's 6:45. All right, madam clerk. All righty. So, this
Okay. uh application of Sarah Hillier for property located at 6 cross street assessor's map 104 lot 31 which is located in the urban residential zoning district a special permit pursuit to sections 200-6.2e
and 200-8.3 of the zoning ordinance in order to allow a 6-ft fence within a portion of the front yard setback area at this location. Please state your name and what you're doing
with this application. Uh my name is Sarah Hillier and I reside at 6 Cross Street. Um thank you all. Uh and excuse my layman terms. Please use them. Yes. Um, I have a request for the fence, the
first panel, uh, from the property line in to be 4 feet and the remaining three panels to be at six feet to join the existing fence that's already up. Um, I spoke with Bruce and with Eric because
from the road to the pin of my property line is 14 feet and they said that that's usually a longer uh uh footage from the road to the pin from the property. And then if I went from my pin
back, I think is it 24 feet or 25 feet? Um that it should be at four feet that that brings me far back into my property line. But because of the 14 ft that's already in the front, that when Bruce looked at it and he said there shouldn't
be a problem to do the first panel at four feet and then the remaining all at six feet. And I attached a photo. I don't know if Eric's um forwarded that or not. He did. He did. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So,
on your map, if um you're saying that this this location here where you stopped building your fence, right? That's you stopped building your fence at that point, that's 25 ft from the road or 25 ft from your actual property,
from the pin of the property. So, you've gone back 25 feet and that's where you've left those four panels. Great. Okay. So, that's that's within the rules, the setback. Yeah. Um, so Bruce is who? He's the assistant building inspector. Yeah. Okay. And so,
no, Mark, I'm sorry. You meant I guess I might have said the same. Um, so he he he said that um you could you you can re because we have the right um
see fence fence requirements may be modified by the ZBA. So technically you're supposed to have but the next four panels would be at four feet. Correct. But Bruce said that you should you should do three. You can do three at six, but just the last one do at 4t. Correct. Okay. So that's that's based upon the
building inspector's suggestion. Yeah. He came out physically and looked at the property with me. Okay. Gotcha. Um Okay. Any questions? How close are we coming to the sidewalk? Because they recommend no more than 30 in on the public sidewalk. Yeah, that's
a great question. There is no sidewalk. There is not on any on cross street. Okay. No. How close is the fence to the neighbors property? It's up to the line. That's right. Mhm. And how do they feel about it? Um we
have had conversations with that indirectly um and having a resolved speaking with um town police officers that and also with Bruce and with Eric that I am all within legal limits of of the fence
line. Yeah. I mean the worst case scenario would be that she 4 feet all the way up. That's perfect. Okay. So the fact that you want six feet into the frontage is what gives you this
which which puts you into our jurisdiction. Yep. Exactly. Yep. So if you're if somebody if anybody in the neighborhood thought that was a bad idea, they they should come here tonight and let us know why they thought that. They chance I might go to that next. But uh my impression is that four feet is is
is fine. Oh, can I share something as well? speaking with two of my other neighbors, the one looking at my house to the left of me and then the person across the street from that and directly the person across from me. They were all in agreement with me and they don't have an
issue with this. But I and my mistake um thinking if they weren't opposing that they would not have to be present tonight. They don't. Okay. Okay. I mean, my impression from going out there is that, you know, usually like
this tree belt area is unusual. Um, normally that's a lot of times I'll see these kinds of fences and I think the reason for the bylaw is that it it cuts off the vision of people that are coming down the road. Yeah. But because of the tree belt, you can see around.
Correct. And then your forefoot just gives another helpful reduction so you can see around even better. So that's I think that's the reason for because you'll be coming out of your drive. Yeah. Okay. Any any other questions? Um just so on the very last post that
that is out there. Um that's the that's where it's ending. Correct. Yeah. Between the last that's the four there wasn't one more post going out four more feet. No, that's right. That's that's my question. No, you see that will the post will
those last post shorten to four feet or last one? Yes. Yeah. Like it was about six. Yeah. Yeah. They put all the posts in all at once and then we left the last four where four panels would go exactly the way they were. Not feeling that that
obstructed a view at all of having a six foot at the very end. Yeah. I mean to put it precisely the special permit is to allow for the three sixoot panels. Four foot panel. The last one is allowed. Right.
It was just those three three that continue it. Okay. That's what that's what the building inspector is saying that we should do because of we and we can do that. So, okay. May I ask another question? Of course. Great. Um, if you look at the photo, um,
you'll see that there's a basketball hoop there. Um, and that is my neighbors that you see with the red car and the red van. Um, and that is on the tree belt. Um, I have asked several times for that to be moved over onto their
property. I understand that where my tree belt is, that belongs to the town, but I maintain that area. So, I've asked several times for that to be moved and they refused to move it over into their side of the property. So, speaking to Eric Andrews about this, I have um I
asked I'm sorry, Mark. I asked Mark if it would be possible at the end of the 4ft fence, so it would come down this way to erect another four fence and then the basketball hoop is right here. And he said that that would be within
guidelines because it would be 4 feet there. Um because I'm not sure how to go about to solve the issue of this basketball hoop where it's located. Um, unless somebody else has some suggestions.
You're saying that you want to then kind of have another fence panel that runs parallel to Cross Street. So, it kind of corners off your fence and provides a visual barrier, right? From that of the basketball, right? Yeah. Exactly.
So, I mean, just my opinion, but you don't own the tree belt, correct? Correct. And I have a clear understanding of that. I've asked my neighbor sever several occasions if they wouldn't mind moving that over onto
their property. They have refused on several occasions. And um I had just said, "Well, if the tree belt is public property, then I could take some of my belongings and put it on your tree belt." And they said, "No, if they if I did that, that they would destroy
everything." So, as time kept moving forward, the conversations kept getting more and more heated. Hence, I went and spoke with Bruce and Eric and made sure that I did everything by the law for this fence so I can have my privacy.
Understood. Um, I would say that you can't put a fence, you cannot put extend your fence because you don't own that property. Now, I don't know what the rules are in Greenfield about the tree belt. I think that's really up to the city to
take care of since they own the property. So, if you were going to communicate with anyone, I would suggest you continue to communicate with the building inspector or if you wish to talk to the mayor about it. But it's city property. So, so your neighbors going into city
property is not a violation of your rights. It's a violation of correct if there's any rights that are violated. It's the whole it's us the citizens as a whole. Yeah. So I would say that while I appreciate what you're saying, it's not relevant to this. Okay.
I'm not saying it's not important. Oh, no. It's not part it's not part of our decision. Yeah. Understood. Okay. And I don't think you'll get permission to put a fence panel in the tree bell. No, it it's on my property line is what I was requesting. Not on the property line.
But you're right. But you you No, but what you're requesting, you're going right up to your property line, right? Right. But if I put a fence here, how Oh, then you'd have to comply. Then you would have to comply with the zoning that allows for that. Yes, of
course. I'm sorry. I thought you meant you were going to go Yes, of course. You can do that. Okay. I mean, I Great. I don't want to be the guy sitting here telling you how to do it, but if you read the same section, it would tell you how to corner it and there's a certain distance and things that Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. And I think if you again, I'm not reading this, but maybe there's a way you could do it without coming back to us. Okay. As long as it's not over four feet, I think you can do it. Yeah. Which is what you were just saying. Yeah. And that's what Mark had suggested as well. I'm sorry, I misunderstood. Right.
Okay. So, that's good. So, um I will stop here. And did I ask anybody uh in the public have anything to say about this petition by the applicant? Yes. Uh I'm Miss Leer's neighbor. Yes. Um she never met. Well, I'm sorry. Did you say your name
and um I'm David Terasi. I live at 57 Shadow Street. Okay. Um I walk my dog by your house like three times a day. Um I think Miss Le's made a lot of great movements to our property. Um, and I think that the six foot fence would be a positive impact on
the neighbor that owns the basketball hoop. It makes their property make more sense and it makes the property that's behind her property make more sense. Um, before it was kind of just this awkward no man's land. Um, I think it's a improvement for everyone. Great. Thank you. Thank you.
Is there anybody anybody else? Anybody online that iPhone has their hand up? Yes, please. iPhone two. Hi, my name is Sarah Koulsey. I am the property owner that is right next door that is on the boundary of this fence. Um, I am the one
that also owns that basketball hoop. Um, I apologize, but I just found out about this hearing uh today. And, um, there is some contention in regards to the property line and where the current fence is right now. Um, I have had an
inspector come out, a surveyor to survey the property line and there is actually no official survey done to show the exact property line between my property and the petitioner's property. Um, and
there are actually two sets of pins um, between mine and her property. Um the surveyor that I had come out um has said that her fence is actually 3/4 of an
inch at least on my property. Um so personally I am very concerned about anything when it comes to extending this fence further down the driveway uh for multiple reasons. one, I feel it's going
to hinder um my ability to be able to see to get in and out of my driveway. Um and secondly, as far as the fence goes, I don't know exactly where the property line is. We have asked the petitioner
for a survey that she claims that she has had done. Um and she has not produced it. Um, the surveyor that I had contacted said in order to get a fullon survey for the two properties, it would
cost roughly about $3500. Um, so at this point, I would like to make it known for the record that my husband and I are not in agreement with this extension of this fence. We're not in agreement with the fence at all. Um,
especially where it is at the moment. Um, and we would like to ask that an official survey be done on the property to show where the property line is before any further fencing is built.
I hear you. Thank you. Anybody else have anything to say? Okay. Right. So, um I I guess I is this a survey? This is the town from the office. Yeah. the deeds.
Um, so what's your response to the you don't have you do you you did not have that line for the backline survey. Is that true? I did have a survey. It's not a complete survey. It is um someone came out and um found all the
pins for me and that was with I don't not sure what the piece of machinery is called but you know the big tripod. They came out and they found all the pins for me. So, it's your belief that the fence is inside of where those these pins are,
for example. Yep. Are they able to create a a drawing survey? I'm sorry. Be able to create a drawing from the survey that they they did so you could show where your fence is relative to the property. Yeah. Um, great question with that. If
he had done that, then like uh Sarah was just explaining here, it be you start to go into the thousands of dollars to do that. I hired him to come out and survey just to find the pins for me. And that's what he did. So that's where we are with
that. And um as soon as that had been done, u my neighbor Sarah, I had asked her if she would like to come and see the pens immediately after. It was like within a day of this being done and she refused to do it. She just stayed on her
porch and just had had mentioned that um perhaps I'm the one who put the pins in there. So, you know, I I feel as though that I've tried to meet a lot of the needs and do things within the law of of everything here and I'm just being up
against every single stop possible. I'm the one who is actually the financial person who's absorbing all of this cost and it's adding to the neighbor. It gives her the privacy of her yard. It also gives me mine. And I would think
that there would be some sort of grace there in being appreciative regardless if one thinks it's threequarters of an inch of a difference that somebody else has absorbed the thousands of dollars that is costing to put this fence up instead of coming up against a block every single time to try to improve the
neighborhood and giving their property as well an improvement. David, can I ask a question? Please. You referenced earlier that you've had I think you said police, the building inspector and the town planner. Yeah. On the property and that they've
all affirmed that the placement is legal. Could you just say a little more about that? Like I have did they speak to the neighbor? Did they check out the property pins? Yeah. What's the like what's their conclusion that your current placement is okay? Okay. Where's that coming from?
Would you like me to break down each person that you mentioned? Sure. Okay. Sure. Um, so when I hired the company to come in, there were uh all bushes there that had been placed there decades ago by the
person that I purchased the house from. When they came in, they took the bushes out. And of course, you know, they've been there for a long time. They were also um willing to go and fix all of the property where it might have pulled away from. uh when they pulled out the bushes
the following morning Sarah was outside with those um holes so you know so a plow won't hit something and eyeing where she thought that where the property line was. Um and I had said to her that the company was going to come,
you know, they're coming back obviously to finish, but they would take care of the soil and the grass and all of that. And she was just very unkind in her words. And so at that point when the company came back I had said um can you
all hold for a moment because I knew something was going to follow suit from this. And so I went to the police station. I just gave them heads up which I have um from other numerous times working or not working with Sarah I guess you could say and I just said I
just wanted to give you heads up. Um, I'm having a fence put in and I my neighbor is, you know, probably not going to be happy about this. 5 minutes later, Sarah walks in and complained that there's damage to her property. And so the two officers came out. One spoke
with me, one spoke with her. And then when both officers came back to me, they had um had said, one of them had said, "Did you show her the survey?" The other officer said, "She doesn't have to legally." And then I was asked, did you let Sarah know that you were putting the
fence up? The officer said she doesn't have to legally. And speaking with Mark and with Eric on all of this, and I've spoken with Eric probably five or more times on this. And he also explained exactly how to do this. And then
inviting also Mark to come out and look. And he didn't have a problem with it at all either. And he walked all of the property for me. Thank you. Did you say I mean Sarah I I'll ask you the same. Did Did you say that Sarah Did
Sarah say she had a survey but she wouldn't show it to you or does the police officer say that to to me to you that you didn't have to show her? Right. Correct. Well, legally Sarah needs to get noticed that this hearing is taking place. So, she needs to know that that's happening
because she has a right to to and she does. And um when I I went through the process with Eric and he showed me um because you have to pay a considerable amount for this permit and also that
within 300 yards all of the households around you are notified. Looking through all of those um names, I did not see Sarah or her husband's name on there. Come to find out their house is listed under a bank. So, it was up to the bank
to notify her. I see. So, I see Sarah, can you see me? Yes, I'm looking at you. Yes. Um, so you're you're saying that you have have
you hired a surveyor? Do you have something? I had hired a surveyor to come out to the property. Um, it had cost me $550 to have the gentleman find the pins. And as I said earlier, there are literally two
sets of pins. There are an older set and there are what looks to be a newer set, which are the ones that I am calling into question because these are the ones that have magically appeared where the bushes previously were. Um, I have lived in my home for 20 years. The situation
with the bank is a personal matter that is none of um the complaint's concerns. The only reason it's our business is because the notice goes to whoever's listed in the assessor's office. So you should know that just for your own information. No. No. And I appreciate that. But um
just to just let you know, I I've lived in my home for 20 years. So she's been my neighbor for well off and on my neighbor because she's been an absentee homeowner, but off and on for 20 years. there there's no reason why she did not notify me. I was notified from another
neighbor about this hearing today. Um but the the pins that are listed that are now where the bushes previously were, these pins, if you come out and look at them, they look very new. Um they are not anywhere near the same pins
that are on the other side of my property, nor are they the same pins that are on the properties adjoining ours. Um I'm sorry. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Let me ask you this. What's What's the distance between the two sets of pins?
My property extends 86 feet one way and 66 ft from the town line on Cleveland Street. No. No. You said you found two sets of pins out there. Yes, sir. There's two sets. So, how far are they? An inch apart. Are they a millimeter apart? They're a couple of millimeters apart.
They're not inches apart, but they are on the Cleveland side of my property. And then there are two sets of pins on the back end of her property that connects to our other neighbors, the miller's home. But the difference between the two sets
of pins, the ones that are older and the ones that you claim are newer, is less is like a millimeter apart. No, sir. I I can't guesstimate that because an inch apart. Less than an inch. The newer pins are in between my property
and hers. The older pins are the ones that are doubled up and they are in between my property on Cleveland Street and the back end of her property. So, between whatever I'm not sure the house number on the other side of hers on
Cross Street, there's two pins over on that side. There's also two pins on the Miller's property, which is the property that is connected between mine and hers. I think their address is 52 Cleveland Street. Um, so there's
What's the distance between the two pins? There's a different distance for each set of pins. There are multiple pins on every property. But if you were to take the maximum distance of any of these multiple pins, what would that distance be?
A couple of inches. uh depending on which property. Yes. Okay. Thank you. That answers my question. Yep. And then also if if I may say when it comes to any contention between me and her, um this all started because this past winter in particular,
she called the police on my husband for shoveling the driveway. Sir, yeah. I um your your your involvement in this is to just speak to the application. I I'm I'm not interested. I don't think the rest of the public is interested in your
private a relationship with Sarah. Okay. No, I mean it's it's fine. I just I didn't want my my name to be thrown under the bus because she's making me sound like I'm I'm the bad guy in this situation. And she took out the bushes without giving us any heads up to it.
She put up the fence without telling us. She didn't ask us anything about any of this. And as I've said, the fence, the property line is in contention. And I firmly believe that there should have been a properly done survey to determine
exactly where the property line is before those bushes were removed because the surveyor I had come out said that those bushes were more likely my bushes, not her bushes. So the fact that this
contention over this fence, it it it's a headache, sir. And I I just a survey would have dealt with this and would have put everything to rest and made things set in stone. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.
Okay. I think we've got unless you want to say something more. I think we've got all the information. Great. Okay. I got one question. Your fence. Does a good side face your house or does a good side face the neighbor
towards me? Good side is towards you. Is it supposed to face the neighbor? Suppose the good side should face the neighbor. Again, speaking with Mark, I asked him, he said that it was a courtesy.
They the company that was putting in the fence um when they were moving the flag pins that Sarah had put in to make a their next step. She said she came out and told them to not step on
her property and to stay away. They had no other choice but to put the fence up the way they could. When I spoke with Eric before they did it twice, I spoke with Mark and everyone was in agreement that that's a courtesy.
Okay. All right. Is there any uh anything from uh town departments to read into the record? I think so. Hold on. Oh, I don't know. Did I say did I announce who's going to sit on this panel?
Oh, all right. I'll try to read into the record first. Um so, we received a notice from the inspector of buildings who had no comment or issues with the proposed project. And also uh we heard from the department of planning and development
who had no issues or comments uh regardless project and those are that's all the correspondents we have. So for the record sitting on this panel are Jim W Debbie Jones Mark Maloney Eric Green David Singer. Okay. Uh if there's nothing else on
other questions and there's nothing else from anyone. Anybody else have anything to say besides Sarah who's okay. Um so we'll make the decision tonight. We have another uh hearing. I think we probably You were overdue for it. Overdue for it. So, if you want to stay and wait for us inside, that would be
great. Sure. Take him in order. Yeah. Thanks. All right. Thank you. Can I step out for a second? Sure. We won't deal with this for a little while. Okay. The 7:00
application oxo. Go ahead. You ready for me? I'm ready for you. All right. Application of Oxbow Design Build Cooperative for property located at 187 Hope Street, assessor's map 1820,
which is located in the urban residential zoning district. the special permit pursuing sections 200-5.32 and 200-8.3 of the zoning ordinance in order to allow a 20% reduction of the required 10
foot side yard setbacks to allow the construction of a new twotory duplex at this location and sitting on the panel are Jes and please step in you are my name is Noah Modai I'm a member owner
with Oxbow Design, building a registered architect. And your address? My address is 28 Russell Street in Greenfield, right around the corner from this project. Okay. Thank you. As is uh actually incidentally one of our other principles at 60 James.
He'd be here tonight, but he's recovering from a knee surgery. Okay. I'm glad to have you. So, uh what's going on? Uh so, we are trying to build a duplex on this lot. Um, and as you'll see on the site plan, uh, it gets real steep,
real quick. Um, so we're, uh, requesting a, uh, 20% reduction on the setback so that we can make the house, um, stretch more parallel to the top, uh, topography lines and, uh, sorry, I
didn't bring a step with me. um and so that we can get a little closer to the street so that we're not dealing with that slope. We're worried about uh digging into the hill both because of drainage concerns, uh excessive cost and um upsetting some of
the vegetation uh destabilizing the uh hillside. Okay, any questions? Um I do. Yes. So, you're looking for reduction on the side setback.
I'm sorry. That should include the front setback as well. And we do have a little bit more flexibility uh front to back. Um it's 25 ft. Good. Uh it's application application
requests. It doesn't request a funard setback. At least the phase shoot doesn't. No, it would not say in the park setback. But my question was actually on the five. Sorry. The uh plan plan illustrates an
encroachment on the front setback as well. Is there any way that we can talk about that tonight? I just don't think so because listen, I want you to know I'm sensitive about the hassle factor. So, hear me out. The problem is that you're giving
notice to the public that you're wanting relief from sideyard, right? And that's what everybody thinks. So, if I were your neighbor and I thought two feet on the sideyard, maybe I don't care. That'd be so that's so I show up or I don't show up based on what I've noticed is the problem. But if you're asking for
front yard set, then somebody has the your butters. people who are given this notice have to know what you're asking for. So it it it's not a matter of whether we couldn't entertain or understand what you're asking to do. It would be that your the notice to your
butters didn't give the proper notice that needs to be given under the statute or the ordinance didn't give them uh information about the fact that you're also asking for relief in the front. Understood. I think that's a problem. Um, well, as I mentioned, we do have more flexibility front to back. Uh, we can
move the house up the hill a little bit. I would rather do that than wait another 60 days. I mean, that's fine. Uh, just so you know, we could talk about this special permit, make a decision, and then you could ask for a second special permit if you wish. So, that would be great. Thank you. You know what I mean?
Yeah, absolutely. You're not procluded. Okay. Excellent. But I was just saying if you wanted everything, if your construction was going to happen in October and you wanted all this set up so that your construction with all this work done would meet those requirements at one time, then we'd have to continue it uh until September to
hear both of them. You'd have to send out notice again. Either way, you're going to have to send out notice again. But if your if your strategy is you just want to hear about this and you'll apply again for a special permit, that's up to you. I think the strategy that he's saying is adjust the site plan. So actually we can address the side setback
and then as a condition say that these plans actually that the property needs to go further back from Hope Street. What these plans indicate? He's got it. What's your take on doing something like to approve like if it's not in the plan? What's your take on approving it?
Well, I was just being more simplistic about it. You're not going to get a building permit for this site being this close to the furnish, right? Whether we we don't even have to talk about it. You're you're asking for relief from the side. I guess maybe we maybe we can't talk about it because
you're not asking for enough uh relief for us to even approve the sideline because why would we approve the sideline if the front is is not valid? How to what degree can these plans be malated when they go to the building
department? And you know, these aren't I mean, we're not going to try to build off a single page. Uh we we hold ourselves to higher standards than that. Uh but, you know, it's the cost of actually moving the house up the hill is
way less than the cost of a a 90-day delay. Um, and and so I'm I'm happy to I'm happy to just move at the I I think that's So I'll answer I'll answer here's how I'll answer your question. If you were
to have a two 10-ft setbacks and 25 foot setback, you can build this house without needing to come to us. But because you're asking for the 20% setback uh deduct reduction on the side, it has to match an actual location on
the ground and an actual project on the ground. So for us to approve it just in in theory, in other words, if you're moving that house back, this is not the proper site plan for us to approve your your your request. Does that make sense?
The site plan has to make sense to you. Well, yeah. You don't think we can approve it with a condition that the house is going to be moved back to conform with the front yard set? I don't think so. Then so then everybody comes in and says then it becomes everything becomes fuzzy. I mean I
I'll entertain that as an idea. But I think the whole point of this is there's a there's a request with a site plan. The site plan and the request have to match up. If you were even even if we gave you so just to show where I'm coming from, if we were to give you this relief
and and this was fine and then you moved the house back two feet, I think you'd have to come back and say relook at the site plan again and give me special permit again for the real site of my house. So can I just ask a clarifying question? Absolutely. Is your expectation that
you receive completed construction documents at this phase? No. Okay. So you could draw you could have drawn this on a napkin and said I'm building something 25 ft 25 ft here. I mean not a napkin but you show it so that so this if this isn't where the house is going
to be located on earth we can't give you relief. So what are the abstract relief? So what are the tolerances between the bar napkin sketch and the full construction documents? If this is 18, do I have to come back to you?
Cuz that would change. Oh, it wouldn't change. I mean, it would change the length of the line. Yes. If it was 18 ft 1 inch, would I have to come back to you? Well, you're
you made a point. Um, that that that's that's a construction tolerance error that we don't we don't have we wouldn't have to worry about it an inch. But, you know, it's we just we just we sit on some levels. This is my interpretation and I'll hear from others. We sit in
somewhat of a vacuum and you come to us for relief. You show us what you're doing. We sign off on what you're doing. You go back into the real world. We don't know what you do. if something is different and somebody in the planning department, the building department says, "Hey, you got to go back to the
zoning board for a uh you know to to for another site plan, we're as far as I know, we're not really in the business of negotiating these kinds of things, at least from through my experience, but I'm willing to hear from other members of the board about other I just need to know what to do next." I know, but we're you're I I'm just
putting out in the open what my concerns are, giving you a chance to respond, but go ahead. I think the plan at the very least needs to show where it's going to sit on the lot and what the setback they're requesting is. Um, you know, it's one thing if we're in here and we, you know,
decisions made, okay, you know, we can allow a a 7 foot versus an 8 foot, you know, you know, that kind of thing, but we should at least see it should, the strong should at least show where they intend to put it on the lot. I don't think we should be approving it and then
they can move it back, you know, 20 ft. But I mean I suppose actually at that point they're going to be back 20 ft. Then they don't need to come before us for the front yard setback. But right I wouldn't be comfortable approving a drawing that doesn't show that it's going to meet the setback on its own.
And even though this is not part of the application. If your application said I need a frontend side relief and we and there was some discussion about where the drawing needed to fall, I'd be okay. But you're now saying here's a drawing. It's not meeting the front yard set back and I haven't even asked for it yet. That's
where I have that's where I feel uncomfortable proceeding forward with the front setback. And so I'm unclear uh even if you know clearly we're going to be submitting more documents to the city.
We can't condition approval of those documents on it meeting the front setback and having having gotten the reduction on the side setbacks. We can't condition any of that. I think
what you're asking for symbol, but that's the the world that you live in in terms of just communicating with us on this one basis. But we also sort of have a a style that we need and a and a sort of a a method in which we do business
because while your case might be in your mind and maybe even in our minds minor adjustment, somebody else could come in and move their house 10 feet and that could be a big deal for everybody in the neighborhood. But yet we they're going to say, "Well, you gave the other guy,
you know, sort of a flexible setback. Uh why don't you give us a flexible setback?" And so and so we have to be very careful that that we follow a certain set of procedures. I'm I'm one to always try to help the applicant. So I'm trying to think of a way in which we
can help you out. Um I mean and you know if because we still have this I I guess I just want to say this. I have a lot of questions about the side setback. So you know that that's something in anyway. So it's not like it's not like it's not like a gimme kind of thing. But, you know, the the idea that
we would we could condition it that, you know, we'll approve the sideyard setback if they submit plans that meet the front yard setback based on the way the ordinance is written. I'd be up to entertain that thought, but I, you know,
say that again. I would be I would be okay with discussing the fact that you know if we come you know if we were to approve it that we could approve it with a condition that the front yard the the building must be moved to meet the front yard set buck and if they can't figure
that out then they have to come back but what about the fact that people are given specific notice and and information about what's going on I mean in in we we had for the for the abutters not to be able to weigh in on even the smallest change seems like something
that's remissed. be legally he could if if he's meeting the front yard setback legally, he wouldn't have had to come from for us. He's only here for the side part. So if he if he meets the ordinance with the front, then he there's no notice given to you about us anyway,
right? No, there no there is. He doesn't he if he met his front yard setback, he would not need to come before us. No, he's asking for side unless Yes, I know he's I know he's asking for a condition. He has to meet the front yard set back
as a condition if we allow the sideyard. All right. I guess we're looking at it from different I'm trying to see where you're looking at. For me, it's just more the due process thing. I'm not I'm not thinking about it practically. I'm thinking about due process. People have a right to know what except the plan submitted does not meet
the front yard. No, people have a right to know what's before us. What's before us isn't this. No. Right. Then every applicant who didn't come here thinking that it was this may have a complaint about what is
actually going to happen on in real life and and you know, not not that I'm saying it will, but so that's the piece that I'm fixated. It's just a due process piece. I'm sorry though. If if if you were to grant so the sideyard setback under the
condition that it meet the front yard setback, then we would just move it. And what right would they have to complain about the front yard setback? They have a right to complain about the fact that your sideyard setback is now
here. Maybe that neighbor doesn't like it here. They're okay with it here, but they they don't like it here. Three and a half feet. Well, people are fighting over. It's not my place. It's not my It's just If you respect what I'm saying, it's not my place to judge what
how the abutters are going to feel. It's my place to have a a fair system. you know the rules of the rules system especially the due process piece you know once you're for so just so you know the distinction if you came before us and the and the applicants and all that
was correct and then you were trying to finesse why we should give you this setback even if the abuter complained about the fact that it's this far back then we would have room to work with you as a board because that's now within our jurisdiction to decide whether what
you're doing is okay or not once the abuter says says what they're saying, then it comes upon us. But I just feel that's my feeling about it. If people want to weigh in differently, but I No, I think you make a good point about the fact that somebody might have been okay with this. And I know it's only
three feet, but 3 feet could change somebody's view off their back deck or, you know, where they walk their dog. I mean, it can change so many different things. Due process in this thing is like that's it's really critical. What is before us is sides set back only
as written. But interestingly enough, I didn't even notice and neither did our anybody else that even as the plan is drawn. So why why did this only come for sideyard? It was clearly a miscommunication within our office.
I have a question. Did the Butters receive a copy of this plan or is it only the board that that received a copy? No, they received the right. Not technically. Okay. I'm the J. Gotcha. the uh my understanding is that
something this size or maybe all times they'll be told to call the planning department to see a copy of it. Do we know if anyone called? Eric's not here. Eric's not here. Even if they did, it doesn't matter. That's not the the issue is whether I know we didn't get any correspondence
with anyone with a complaint or or an approve, you know, either way. We didn't get correspondence from anybody other than the town. I wish I could help you. I really do. Um I mean I'm willing to I'm willing to
pause here and decide our case and then we can talk some more about it as we Doesn't sound like that's going to go in my favor. I think it makes sense for me to withdraw this application. Okay. And you know,
we have to allow it, but we'll be happy to give you uh allow you to do it. Once you're before us, we have to say it's okay. Gotcha. We have to vote to do that. Is that what you're asking us to do? I'm not sure if that's the right thing for me to do. Can we talk?
Why don't you do this? Why don't you Can we pause you talk to people and uh Okay, we're going to put this hearing on hold. Actually, we need to vote to that. Everybody all in favor? We're to pause it.
Yes. To pause this. Okay. Anybody opposed to allowing us to pause for a moment? No. Want to talk to something? You're good. Just um No, he need to go dial a friend. That's
all. Um can we just should we just wait? I guess we should see what you do. We'll give you a couple minutes. So I need I need nothing. Okay. Wait, why are we pausing? I thought we were pausing to actually just deliberate
on the fence thing and then come back to this conversation. You're saying you're Yeah. You're giving him a pause to think for a minute about how he wants to proceed. That's what I thought I was doing. Could we could we talk about the fact though that if we like that if he withdraws this application, he's going to have to pay for another special
permit application to correct a clerical error. Is it possible to do something like worst case scenario even if you can't move forward now can we spare the cost of a second application somehow by application is they're going to have so we could we
could do what we did with the tower they could amend the application you could amend the application which means submitting a new set of drawings I would say that by a by continuing it and allowing you to amend it you wouldn't have to pay the fee to submit again
can I amend it toclude the front yard on the That's what we're saying. You would amend it to have the front yard set back included and we would come back to this plan. If you're moving if so you want to if you want relief from the front yard instead of moving it and you're going to use this to ask for the
relief, you can amend it to ask for the relief as an additional request. Okay. Thank you. Now, is is this drawing a 20% relief in front yard? It's it's within It's within the 20%. Yes. Yes. So you Yes, you can do that. So why
don't we make a motion to continue it uh to give you a chance to amend amend uh the application. You come back and uh and uh I'm sorry. I thought you were
going to call somebody who No, it would be me. You'd be calling yourself. I thought you said it was a part. He is recovering from knee surgery and he wouldn't have anything to say anyways. Okay. Make a motion.
Make a motion to continue this matter until September until the September meeting giving the applicant time to amend your application to request a 20% reduction in the front yard based on the submitted plans. Okay. Somebody second
that please second. That makes sense. Yes. It's going to look nice there with a house in that lot. Yeah, that was not a lot. Okay. All in favor?
I oppose. Like the record show that it was unanimous. Okay. You know, there's kind of a streak whenever it doesn't show up. So we are going to deliberate on street. Could we do a quick five minute break
before we do comment? We're going to take a five minute break. We're going to start back up at 7 considering it's such a difficult lot to develop. Goes straight up in the back. Go. So I don't know why they're not just
considering the singles going there. I I have questions about the parking proposition and what so I need to do a little more research about what Greenfield says about parking. Yeah. No, and also one one space per unit is what is the green field parking? Okay.
Yeah. The other thing is that there is a slope uh in the ordinance. Yeah. Maximum slope. There's maximum slope. So that that wouldn't be I mean usually what happens is things are brought before us. Yeah. But but based on what the planning and the town departments see from submitted
plans. I mean, we don't independently, you know, view this and then decide what things in the zoning ordinance. I mean, sometimes we do, but generally speaking, the issue you're talking about, you might want to research it and talk to Eric about it. Okay. All right.
Thank you for coming. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. So, this plan is probably record at the town. Yes. Yes. a little bit. I'm not trying to chinche everybody, but I'm I'm thinking of different things. Glad that everybody's kind of
Well, hey, six or seven of us or whatever. To me, the due process is the big deal. People have the right to and that it troubles me that Sarah wasn't given notice, but I think that the applicants, but I think that's part of the that's an
assessor issue. actually about who's listed in the assessor. I think it does. Let's see what it says. Do you have you miss? Yes, I do. Not that you don't.
For the record. No, I know. I know. I I I know. I'm sitting in a seat. He had the padded seat and I switched it. I needed a pad and renewed it. David Farm is extended till September.
Yeah. Okay. That'll be an early meeting that night. Early. Wait, like starting early or just moving slow? Moving quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bring a snack. I'm giving a cameraman a hard time. Bring a snack and a pillow. Not a bad idea.
I don't think it'll beat the slide. I drove up by there the other day. I haven't been up here in years. Been down at the stone farm behind the old way. You know, I actually drove out to go see it. And once I started hitting the dirt road, I was like, I don't even know
where I'm going or if I'm going to be able to turn around. Co walkabout. So I was down there all the time walking around those trails on the bottom of the river. Isn't there a hiking trail goes all the way up to right? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And and it goes you can continue on up and get to the top of Turner Falls Road, whatever that road is that go from top to shop and Turners. that you can walk back into the whole gnome back sort of area back in there. I remember there used to be people up there walking 10 or 12 dogs on leashes. I said, "Do they actually stop and pick
up after those dogs?" No. Yeah. There was a kid hanging around up there after middle school. That was a real pretty area. Yeah. Gravel pits all around there. Oh god. Yes. Yes. And that weird old student baker in the in the gut. Is that there
when you were a kid? That's been like No, I don't remember that. Look at that. Pulling out somebody up here at 6:00 on Sunday morning. They get stuck by hand in here. They didn't get stuck in. Bring
up your jeep. Bring up the pull strap. See if here it ends in the sun. I like your shirt. Thank you. It's a great town. To visit. Remember the nice place to visit sign on 911?
That's right. Yeah. I used to live up that way. Oh, yeah. It was down at the end of Log Plane West. Yeah. A for call. Yeah. Let's take that. And so the notice has to be given
according to the tax list. So that's so she was in compliance. All right. Let's uh let's open. Yeah. Um, so, so would someone make a motion to approve uh
Sarah's application and then they'll talk about I'll make a not application of territory for property located at six feet. Yes, it's map 104 lot 31 which is located in the urban residential RA zoning district
for a special permit soon to sections 200-6.2e 2E and 200-8.3 for the zoning ordinance in order to allow 6T transfer a portion of the front yard setback area at this location. Subject to the following conditions. Subject to the following conditions.
I have a second. Second. Okay. Discussion. You know, I have something to say, but I wait to hear what others have to say. We have any correspond like oh uh no I don't believe yeah we for um for no not for this one I
already read them nobody had any comments David for me I feel like it would be helpful to just kind of go back to like what it is that we're actually here to vote on because it feels to me like some of the contention around whether the current fence line is legally placed or not feels like a wrinkle and I'm not
sure that it should it feels like it's not really our jurisdiction like to me I guess I feel like the only thing that I'm here to deliberate on is forfeiting versus 6 ft. Yeah. And I'd love to make sure that we're all on the same page that that's what we're all about on some level. If the fence line is in dispute, I feel like that's
just for another town to I figure out. And so for me, it just kind of feels like what we're talking about here is 6 feet versus 4 feet. And I guess since I'm already talking, I I would just go a little further if I recognize that the neighbor is kind of feeling like that they just don't want a
fence period in terms of driving visibility. But I think there's again this reality of the 4ft fence would be allowed by right. Um and so that that visibility blockage is going to happen when you're in a vehicle pulling in or out. It's not going all the way to the
street anyways. Uh so despite you know I appreciate that there's some difficulties or contention and my sympathies to all parties involved but that's the case but I would be inclined to support this application as it's submitted and to support the review until 4 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. So,
I mean, I know there was some stuff we said, but to me, I I would be inclined to support it. Good. Thank you. Yeah, I I would agree with Mark. I went out there. I didn't feel that it detracted from visibility. Um, it was very similar to other fences that were right across the street, right next
door. Um, you know, and really, we're talking about three panels being at six feet when she would have four feet by right. Um, so I I felt it was actually I actually thought it looked really nice and it would be very fitting for the neighborhood. Yeah. Yeah. It's not detrimental, right? That's the standard is it's it's not
detrimental. Yeah. Jeopardize vehicle and pedestrian traffic. Correct. Yeah. Anybody else? Should Should we set as a condition that the first section be a 4 foot high fence, not six? Well, that's what the
It has to be. Oh, I thought it said six. No, that we're granting three sixft panels that are special permitted by us. The 4 foot panel at the end is actually allowed by right. Okay. Yeah. I I Mark, you I think you hit the
nail on the head. Uh and you should understand this as well. And Sarah, you should understand this as well. So, we're being asked whether or not we think that six foot high panels where they're where she's asking them to be located uh should be allowed under
our special permitting under that particular section of our code. And I think that it should be based on the sighting and um and everything else that normally we that we normally take into consideration when we allow this
the height to go from four to six feet. If anybody ever puts a fence on on their on their property incorrectly, that's a dispute. That's a legal dispute between the neighbors. Um so I think we're outside of that dispute.
Yes. Not unless I mean I I mean I guess the exception would be if somebody came running in here with a survey and showed us something that that said that this was a problem. I don't know what we would do then. But that's not what's before us. There is no survey. And by
the admission of the neighbor, the distance is a couple of inches. So I'm feeling like that's a that's a you're take you're you're putting your fence in at your own risk. So I you know and Sarah neighbor if you feel there's a problem then you have other legal remedies.
I mean if if if let's just say it's not on the correct property line if she moved it over 6 in allowed to have it anyway. Right now I realize that that's a bone of contention but I firmly believe it's not within our I would approve it. She if this is confirmed on her property land I would approve it.
Um, I can confirm that getting a survey is like a $3,500 expense because we had a potential dispute with with our neighbor and they said, "We'll just go out and get a survey done and we'll find out."
And it was so expensive that we said screw it. We were arguing about who would be responsible for taking down a tree that was close to the property line. We contend that it was all all on their property. So to take down the tree
was $800, which we split with them, I'm sorry, $700 we split with them. And to get it surveyed would have been $3,500. And it's like nobrainer. Yeah. Really? Well, so we could incorporate into the special permit that in the event that a
dispute uh reveals that the fence has to be moved a relatively short distance in order to deal with that boundary line dispute that special permit still stands. It am I correct that that the uh the
fence is placed 6 in back from the supposed property line? That's not in our bylaw. That's That's probably what people do. But is that what you did? No. Sure. I think it's right. Your fence is right on the line. Correct. It's not on the line. It's up to the line, right?
Yeah. If not, maybe an inch or two. Okay. On my side. That's what you say, right? The other Sarah would say you're on her property, but or should we just leave it alone? Leave it alone. We should leave it alone. Like on some level, I feel like the condition like this the the issue before
us in terms of the special permit, it doesn't matter if it's here or here. They can. We're talking about if it's here. She can have a fence on her property. That's the fence needs to move. There's already a special permit in place saying it can be six feet high. We're done. You know, that's our Okay. So then there's no the condition
would be that it conforms with the application. Y got it. All right. Any more you have anything you want to say about that about what we're talking about? Um so hearing nothing, all in favor say I. By I. Jim.
Deb. I I here David let the record show it's unanimous that the special permit is allowed as presented. Okay. 20 if you want to talk about the 20day period so she's aware.
I'd like to thank everybody for your time and also for your best so a person a person who has standing to do so can appeal this decision within 20 days from our submission to the clerk's office. Correct.
Y well we still have to approve the minutes. Um and and then there anything that David had. So, um,
be so the so and I I want you to know that the tower decision was presented to me somewhat similarly to the minutes and I I reddrafted it based on what I thought was the, you
know, was going on at the the deeper pieces of what we were talking about. So I guess the question is do we want these minutes to be the minutes as they relate to the decision because for example you know the applicant shall pay
attorney's fees and cost the require you know that I that was discussed it's not in the minutes so I can motion to amend that. That's one thing that I looked at, but I did not really compare this to the decision to see if now people don't think it's that important. U the
decision to decision we signed off on that, but if somebody were to read the decision and read the minutes, this is a a lighter version. So is does that matter to anybody? Well, I guess I guess the only reason why we might we might want to have more
detailed minutes is to help support anybody if there's any legal ramifications or if anyone was going to come in and and do that, would it help the the city attorney to have our thought process listed out in regards to why we did what the decisions we made? Would that benefit him or can we just go
back and look at the reporting? Well, this will this is a legal document if it if it's appealing. What does it cost us to just hold off on approving them and just hold to be amended? So, yeah. Well, I would then I would I would say let's amend them.
So, they're they're like actually like to tie the decision into the minutes myself. Okay. I would agree with that. I think that's kind of the same thing. So, we hold off on approving until we've had chance to to draft them more fully. So, why don't we make a motion to do we think we need to make a motion or just
just let it go? Let's we we it's part of our agenda. So, let's make a motion to to continue to to continue decision on the minutes until the next meeting. Sorry. So, move second. All in favor say I. I have a move to adjurnn or do we have
move? I don't I mean I don't know if this Okay. I would like to make a move to start the meeting. I'll second that. Yeah. Oh, one more. Um so go ahead. Yeah. Okay. Who said motion made?
I I motion second. Second. Okay. All in favor say I. I opposed that the record shows unanimous. All right. Thank you. [Music]