Huzzah. All right. Thank you all for your patience. Uh it is March 25th at 6:24 p.m. Uh this meeting is being recorded by the Greenfield Public Schools. Um if any other persons are doing the same,
please notify me at this time. Seeing none, uh would love to call us to order at 6:25. Will you please do a roll call of the members? Secretary Webb. >> One second.
>> Yep. >> Chair Son >> here. >> Secretary Webb, I am here. Vice Chair Child >> here. >> Member Dene >> here. >> Mayor Disorder >> here. >> Member Dman >> here. >> Member Goodwin
>> here. >> All right, we are all here. We have a quorum. Um, and now we're going to open it up to public comment. We do have two people in the room. Uh, I think both of you are wanting to give public comment. Is that accurate? Great. Thank you. Um, and if you are online and you would like
to give public comment, please put your name in the chat and I will get to you. You'll be on the stack. Um, in the meantime, which one of you would like to go first? Let me get my timer set up. We would love to have your name, your
affiliation with the schools, and you'll have three minutes. And give me just a moment to get that timer set up. And I'm gonna flip the screen around, Jeff, so you can see in here.
>> The timer towards my time. >> No, it's not started yet. >> Yeah. >> My name is Michael Master Taro. M A S T R O T O T A R O. I live on Cypress Street in Greenfield and I am a test
services. >> All right. >> I just want to run some comparisons by you folks. Um the population of Maryland is about 6.27 million. Population of Massachusetts is
about 7.15 million. Maryland's K through2 public school students are approximately 890,000. Massachusetts $900,000. Maryland school districts are 24
with 23 counties and Baltimore has its own screeners. Massachusetts has 396 school districts, 14 counties. Smith Academy 7 through 12th has 134
school districts has 134 students. I give them three years before they fold. Stonely Burnham School, private school. Nevertheless, they're hovering somewhere between 130 and 150 students 7 to 12
including postgrads. DA went co-ed back in 1990 because they saw the writing on the wall. The Monu schools at Pioneer and Waller
are voting in September to regionalize. Folks, this has nothing to do with school choice. Although if you're running a bottom 10% of the state, you got you are going to lose children. What it has to do with is
families are averaging in this in the states 1.6 children per family. The young population is dropping and it's all our old folks. Okay, Greenfield needs to join the party. I've
said this for two years and I was on Ways and Means. I'm going to say it again tonight. You have to regionalize and you can't count on Joe Cumber. She cowtowing to to superintendent and administrators. If we get any money from
her, it's going to go it's not going to students. We are on a downhill slide. We cannot afford We cannot afford to do this on our own. Join the party. regionalize. It's the
only way out. If somebody's dead, they don't know they're dead. Everybody around them knows they're dead, but they don't. The same works for stupid. Let's not be stupid.
It's not working, folks. >> Join the party. Regionalize. They're voting in September. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Just checking the comments. Um Jeff, was that okay? Could you hear
and see that person? >> Yes, I could. Thank you. >> Great. Any other public comment? I'm not seeing anyone online at this point. >> Microphones. All right. >> Yes. >> I've never been told that was qu. So, I guess this is easy.
>> All right. name, affiliation with the schools. >> Absolutely. Uh my name is Mike Toronto. Uh I live at 171 Log Plain Road if anyone cares. Been here my entire life. Um
there's a couple things. You have money, spend it. It's a rainy day. I've said this for the last couple years. Everyone's comes back to me every budget season when I was on city council and I said spend your money
and they said we don't want to spend our money because it's we have to save for rain. Well, it's pouring right now. Sorry, excuse my French. It's pouring right now. And in my opinion, that guy sitting over there is a goddamn
criminal. Okay. I said my opinion >> allow personal attacks. >> Sorry at all. >> No. Sorry. Doesn't matter. It's criminal what has been happening with our schools and our budgets right now. You have been
hoarding money that was supposed to be turned over to the city. That's illegal and no one has actually put anybody under the gun for that. Spend the money you have before you ask
for any other money from the taxpayers. Bottom line, you have a rainy day fund, so does the city. Don't ask the city to spend their rainy day fund on the school if you're not going to spend your own rainy day fund first.
first and foremost. Um, also I got chastised and on for saying a 19th century word
about being a kiss when I said bootlicker. Yet we have another person that's sitting on the school committee currently who dropped fbombs on her own sign. >> Nope. That I'm sorry. That is unrelated.
>> It is. It is completely related. >> And you are dropping the fbombs right now. I'm going to have to respectfully ask you to refrain from your comments. Like if you can't can you can you read it in and out and directly? cannot sit on a committee and be respected and not
be chastised by your own committee. You should have taken issue with this when they're dropping fbombs on their signs, their sandwich board signs. Sorry, Jenny. You should have done something about it, too. when
every child can walk by that and spell a four-letter word >> that starts with F >> and they can hear it when they listen to this >> and they can right kids aren't listening to this. Kids aren't listening to the meetings that are held at night. That's why these are held at night for adults
to consider. But when they're presented in the public on the sidewalk as they walk by. >> Your time is up, sir. >> That's great. I want one. >> Of course you would. >> All right. >> I will reiterate that we are the scope
of this body is related to the functioning and the governance of our schools, not the policing of people's individual language on their own time in their own business. responsible. >> I will also not committed. >> Your time is done.
>> I will also not brookke personal attacks on the people that we employ. Um, that's not acceptable here. >> That's not my feeling. That's just not what we're going to do. That's a norm of behavior. Um, are there any members of
the public online that would wish to make a public comment now? Seeing none, I will have us move along. The next item on our agenda is a vote to present the mayor to the mayor for the
fiscal year 2027 school department budget. I'm looking for a I'm making a motion to forward the budget as presented. Looking for a second. >> Second. Thank you. Member Deniv
discussion. All right. Keep in mind I need you to slow, clear, loud so that your member, your colleague can hear you and the members of the public online can also hear you. All right. I've got Mel and
then I saw the mayor. Any other hands that I can get on staff? All right. I don't agree with putting forward a 2 and a half million increase. I think we have places that we can we can cut. I
don't think that amount is respectful to the taxpayers. Um we have as taxpayers, we're the third highest taxed citizens in Massachusetts. We just had our houses reassessed. A lot of us are paying more
taxes than we ever have. Our water bills have gone up and Greenfield is gasping for breath. We have water manes that are breaking. We have are the lowest
for in in Massachusetts city or town who is bringing in business funds. That data was presented me during during elections. So, we are struggling because the people raising the money to pay for
everything from water to our schools are human beings. They're not businesses. They're individuals being taxed. And I can't in good conscience go forward with a seven, what is it? 7.4.
I think I've been watching what other districts are doing around us. Um, I don't think it's reasonable or respectful to go forward with that. For the last 48 hours, I've spent a lot of energy in our budget and I can
easily see where there can be cuts that are not going to reach our students. They're not going to reach our classrooms. They're not going to change, you know, our daily lives in our schools. And so, you know, I'm comfortable with going forward with
500,000 increase, but not two and a half. I am not. >> Okay. >> Thank you, mayor. Any other people to get on stack? >> All right. Member Childs, but the mayor for now.
>> Um, so, um, I think that we should be looking at it one thing at a time, and I have a whole bunch of suggestions. Um, >> so, um, >> which is what I do when I go through
each department's budget. I look down, I see where they were this year, where they were the year before, blah blah blah. >> Um, >> we're in a tough spot. And so, we're going to have to take extra things just to balance the budget. But we I believe that as a group, we have to do better than this. I think it's a million7.
>> I thought it was a million7. It is. Is that right? So, want me to to give you all of my suggestions together. I'll give you a couple and then somebody else can talk. >> What would you like? >> Um I think that I would like to just get if there's a more general comment and
then we can come back to more specific items. This is my general comment. >> Um, >> okay. So, from the budget and finance subcommittee, uh, we had a great meeting, tons of questions, a lot of them being about the revolving funds.
So, the story that the, you know, putting it into a comprehensive narrative was that we've got these funds because during the COVID days of esser, we were wise with how we spent it. build up built up these reserves. We're currently spending these
reserves down to the point where next year could run into trouble with the reserves. So, we are at a point where we will need to make dramatic changes in the very near future. The budget as written and presented tonight is basically what we have now. Status quo,
this is what it would cost. It adds a little like it adds one more ELLL teacher so that you know it's not a true complete just level service but I think everyone in this room knows that the schools are not getting a $1.7 million
increase. Uh this budget as presented the way it's been explained to me is that this is our starting point for negotiations. We give this to the mayor. The mayor looks through all of the budgets and comes up with what is more realistic for
what Greenfield can pay for and then the superintendent and the administration finds ways to make what we can pay for work for our kids. So that is my understanding of the process here that this budget if voted on tonight by
everyone in town the moment it meets reality good luck. It's not going to happen. I'll do I can do my name. We're kind of >> I'm like it's already facing that way. >> Does that work?
>> Are you on the screen? >> Yes, I'm on the screen. Oh, is it my turn? >> Okay, >> Ann, you are right. That is the process. And I kind of don't know why everyone's feeling such drama tonight because this is the time when we just do what our
superintendent has told us is appropriate educationally and nobody has rosecolored glasses on. We all know what comes next and that's the hard part. Like the drama comes in a little bit. Not not tonight. This is just what we wish and dream and hope for and it seems
modest. It seems in line with every other budget that I've seen us do. It's not excessive and I know that we're not going to get that. We all know we're not going to get it. So, just so everyone is really clear on that. So, I don't feel the need to
grandstand about it or uh complain about it. I'm just thankful that that you did it and that it was so modest and succinct and transparent and I appreciate that and I'm glad that we all understand the process and that you said the process so that everyone at home playing along can follow. Um, and I
guess we'll see what happens. But I just want to say that when you're continuously underfunded every year, you're not getting what you need. And that's just how it is. And so we're just on this underfunded wheel that's just going to keep going and keep going until we change Chapter 7 funding
and until we get more aid from the state. And I hope that we can all be on that project together as we move forward. Oh, look at that. There's everyone. Jeff, did you have anything to add?
Do you want to go after Stacy? >> Sure. >> Okay. Um I I feel everyone in this room I feel like we're sending a really hefty number over where we could have probably made some adjustments. We're sending a level
service fluffed budget as I like to call it with a few extra positions, but I also understand it is a process and there are steps involved and hopefully we can move the process along even though we
all have very strong feelings and know we're not going to get funded and know we want to get funded. Um, and we also know we don't want people's taxes going up either. So, it's like a it's a balance is how I'm looking at it. Sorry for being a bit emotional about what I'm talking about.
>> It's an emotional thing when we're thinking about the education of our students. Um, I wanted to follow up on some of the things that I was hearing from folks. Again, reiterating, none of us are
expecting to get what we're asking for, but I do think we would be doing a disservice to the community not to say this is what it costs to get this kind of education that we're having. Less is less in this case. Um, more might be
more. Um, I also want to be really clear when I hear the two of you saying, and I don't think you're doing this intentionally, when I hear you saying extra positions, to be clear, these are positions that we would be putting back from the prior year's cuts that we've
already had. These are not brand new. >> These are positions we did have and would like to have again. know that it's probably not in the cards this year, but before anyone gets the idea that we're just suddenly adding things that we've never done before, that's not accurate.
Um I my pers perspective, my position tonight is that I don't want us to make cuts now and then have to go back and make even more cuts later.
we make cuts now and we think that that gets us to a number that we should get. That seems like a slam dunk no-brainer. Like we know that this is not a no-brainer. We get that. But if we get ourselves down to a number that we think should be a no-brainer, that we think is
more reasonable, and then all of a sudden, well, that's not reasonable either, then we're putting ourselves in a position to have to cut even deeper than we really like can without compromising the education that our students would receive. Um, I hear folks saying that there are things that we can
cut that wouldn't reach the students. I might even be inclined to believe that that's true, particularly as we have had positions that we have been unable to fill. Again, not that we don't need them, but we've limped along without them enough that we think we can continue limping for a little longer until the state does the right thing and
funds education. Um, but I don't want to put us in a position of trimming, trimming, trimming before we even know what the target trim is that we're looking for, before we cut
more than we even might need to depending on what comes back to us from the city. So, that's where I'm at on this. Um, and this is not our last opportunity to look at the budget. Um, so that's that's where I'm at right
now. Member Dman, and please speak as loud as you can. >> Yes. >> Okay. I hope that folks can hear me. Um I wanted to point out uh for the public that um
in the superintendent's messaging about this budget uh the superintendent says that the primary drivers of the increase are contractual salary obligations and special education. Um and both of these
new uh expenses uh strike me as rather inflexible. uh with 51% of the increase coming from contractual salary obligations and 35% of the increase coming from uh new specialed students that have moved to the district. I
believe that that's the main driver of these um there are services that we are legally obligated to provide and then there are the um contractual obligations that are also um decisions that have been made.
So, uh, when we're talking about what can be cut, I think it's important to be realistic about where these possible cuts could come from. And that, as far as I can see, it it looks to me, and I I hope that um the superintendent can maybe clarify, it looks to me as though
approximately 80 85% of these cuts are I mean 85% of these this increase is um unavoidable. U Superintendent Joy, can you confirm that? >> Yes, you are correct. Thank you.
>> Anything else, Member Diamond? >> Uh, I'm also concerned about the number 7.46%. I think that that see does seem very high. Um, it's it's very hard for our community to um to continue to fund
our schools. We are in a very difficult situation. Um, I I would like to have some clarity about maybe what I hope more more realistic number would look like rather than 7%, you
know, if it looks like there's a high likelihood of going to uh prop 2 and a half vote, right? Um, does anyone think that that can be avoided? I I don't know if we can comment on that
in this particular meeting. >> Maybe not. >> Um other >> Jenny was >> Yeah. Um we'll bounce back and forth. I've got the mayor, I've got member Deniv, I've got member Goodwin, I've got member
tris. >> Um, so my opinion is we could talk about anything because because it's a public we talk about anything. I don't think >> I don't have the knowledge to know if we can avoid or not. That's all I was
saying. >> Okay. So, >> I can speak louder. Um, so I think we could talk about anything. I that is not something that I'm hanging my hat on is the an override because I don't think that that would pass in this part of the
time, but that's just my opinion. But um, when you said what we said we're putting something forward, I feel like we did that last year without looking at things one at a time. And I think that's part of our job. So that's why I spent some
time on it. So, um I I have the floor, so I'm going to talk for a minute. I would take the um uh the $525,000 from the uh prek revolving and use that.
We have had that increase and increase and increase and it's poor. Um I that's one of my suggestions. Um, I also would take an extra $200,000 out of transportation because I actually don't believe that we're going to be up to the
total transportation level um that is predicted this year because the incumbrances are larger than what we've already spent right now. We've done seven, no, six payments already because Mascus, so there's only four more. So, um, I thought I'm looking at the numbers
and I thought I would use 200,000 more out of transportation revolving to put into this year's budget. That's what I'm going to have to do on the city side. I'm going to have to take things from things to make it whole because the way I'm looking at it right now, we're $2.5 million short. So, I will be wiping some
things out. And I think the suggestion should kind of come from us. Um, I had a couple more. There were a couple of transportation things that weren't full uh positions that we've had. Um
and we're getting everybody to school. This isn't about education. We are getting people back and forth to school and we've had have two open positions from my understanding if I'm correct. Um maybe a couple of extra CDL drivers that we haven't filled those positions. I
feel like that is a thing for us that might be a good thing for us to talk about while we're all together. I that's what I'm trying to do on the city side more is not filling some places where they're you know you've held a vacancy all year long. Those are in my those are
in my cuts or in my you know in my little dream in my head because we did get a figure from insurance and it was 19.4%. That is a $2 million increase. That and like I said the retirement we're already
over. If you did nothing, we we I couldn't balance the budget with that because what we've gone up in two things that we can't change. Um I think we have to look and say well what's important to us. I looked at it as well. None of this is
educational, but it doesn't appear to me that we're on track to be spending. Um and this is just my figuring. I certainly can be wrong. I've been wrong before, but um it looks to me like we're
going to have extra in it this year. And um it I have $261,000 available. These are just from my notes, so I don't >> You're talking city side or school side? >> School side. So I would be looking closely at that budget. I actually go
through the payrolls on this one and I said I don't think we've hired all those POS people in the first category. There's four and then I think there's just three people there. Um, and then as far as just when we're doing
the budget and looking at it, um, and this certainly is for next year, not this year, but, um, it would be very helpful to see the FTEES side by side last year versus this year. Um, so if we
have like 3.5 FTEES in health, I'll just use that for an example. 3.5 FTEES and then I put a graph up in the middle of that in the health department. So you can see there's still going to be three and a half next year three and a half in
fiscal year 26 and three and a half in fiscal year 27 because I did go through some of the things one at a time and I thought okay this um it looks like maybe that's not the same number as last year. So those are a few of my
suggestions and I'm going to be quiet so people can talk. I have more but that was where I want to start. >> Thank you mayor. member Deniv. >> Now my questions have changed because I have a question for you.
>> So I think our vacancy is 600,000, right Andy? >> So like that's the amount that we haven't hired. >> Yeah. So, so you're thinking that if we haven't hired like in your in your thinking of
this, if we haven't hired the position for a year, you're suggesting that we take the vacancy money and put it towards other things. Is that what you're thinking? >> Only I would never say that for me teaching or it's because we had ones
that we had every single one of those >> just this is just me my opinion like I do that in DPW. vacancies in DPW. You have to get the job. >> Yeah. No, I know. I'm just like I'm just trying to go on this thread with you.
>> Something that is not directly education, but at least not in the classroom. So, I mentioned one in it and one in two position systems, not another.
>> Right. So Andy, do we have like a breakdown of what that would be? Like do so that we would know like how much of that vacancy exactly would be in classroom support or >> Okay.
Yeah, maybe that I'm just I'm chasing down these thoughts with you. That's what I'm doing. Um, and then the other thing that I just that kind of came into my mind is that um, yes, we haven't had an override, but we do have a city councelor who's done a lot of deep dives
on what that would be. And maybe I mean, if anybody wants to talk to councelor Brown, she worked out the math for that. And I believe it was something like it adds $4 and some cents to each household. So, it's when people are thinking about that, it's not as
frightening as it might sound. and I didn't understand it until like fully until she explained it to me. So that's not that scary of the math, but maybe we could >> reach out to her and get that information, those facts and figures.
And then my other question is for you, budget and finance. Did you all have a chance to meet with Ways and Means at all to >> We did not this year. >> Okay. So I'm guessing that's on your list for >> the next round. Hopefully.
>> Okay. For those un going >> unforeseen things that are coming up and things that you can plan ahead of time for. Okay. I was just curious. >> Can I ask a clarifying question first? Um,
mayor, >> the money you were talking about for it, is that for personnel or for like left over in their budgetary? I because I know Ian got a some grant money just came in. So, I'm wondering if that's some of the extra money
that you're thinking is left over in the technology department. >> I was just making a statement. >> Thank you. >> All set. >> Okay. All right. I've got member Goodman and then member TR.
>> One of the things we're not talking about which needs to be talked about >> is our declining enrollment. You know, I was proud to be able to say as a principal that my school was overcrowded. That same school today has a hundred
less children in it than when I was principal of that school. We are down 700 students. We were at 1,900. We're at 1,200. Every space costs money.
The our buildings I mean, one of the things that needs to be looked at, not only regionalization is using our bills buildings in an efficient way. You know, I I look at a
huge building like the middle school and it's got 363 students in it. Um, you know, you you it's like an MCCAST problem. You know, do you put K through seventh grade all in one building? No.
The parking lot couldn't handle it. The stairs not not appropriate. We have three elementary schools and at one point they were 250, 225 in each building. Now they're 183, 190, 150.
We're I don't see our enrollment. I was hoping it would grow this year to tell you the truth. I was hoping we would see growth. We're sort of same numbers. We're staying the same. Um all the projections are saying that there will be even less that we're going to
decline more. We should be meeting with the surrounding towns to talk about regionalization. There are lots of new buildings that have been made. Um Turners has beautiful new schools. Greenfield has a beautiful new high school we're still paying for.
Um, Pioneer, I mean, Greenfield has never gone to the table to talk with our neighbors about declining enrollments and ways to do our business in a better way. We are lucky to have a transportation
hub that could help with that whole whole thing. Um, as somebody who's walked into Franklin County Tech, which is regionalized, and seeing something that works so well with 600 students and
all the all the students are there from different places and different towns. And one of the things we've been talking about is trying to bring our students together so that we have less problems with the uh mentality of we're this school or that school by regionalizing
our middle school, regionalizing our high school. Um it just makes sense not only for the children but also for the taxpayers. Um and many of us want to build a new elementary school but I don't see that right now. our city. We
built a new fire station. We built a new library, uh transportation center. We're still paying for the high school. I think we have to um what right now I feel like we're on the on a cliff and if we don't start
looking at all the alternatives, then we're just going to be doing this every year. Um I don't see businesses lined up to come into Greenfield. I hope that does change. I wave at Starbucks every day.
Um, so I'm just saying we need to take action and we need to be looking forward to other ways to do our job, which is educate kids. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. Member Childs and then myself. >> And then member Dman, are you wanting to get back? I just can't see you all the time. Are you wanting to get back on stack at all? I can't hear you, bud. >> Yeah, not at this time, but I'll let you know. >> Thanks.
>> Okay. I definitely think we need to put a lot of work this year into coming up with ways to address these long-term problems that we've been slowly creeping to. We're not creeping slowly anymore. So, we definitely do need to do that. um
because otherwise next year we're going to run into really bad financial problems. I've got some numbers on those revolving accounts. The current plan reduces the revolving account availability by 31% roughly. Is that
accurate? Because that could notes I took at the subcommittee meeting. I could be wrong. Um also we don't have all of the data yet. Um I wrote down that April 1st is the move in date to let us know what we are responsible for
regarding that sped tuition. So that is another driver of the budget where we will have better numbers come April 1st. And uh when people do move into district uh that have these special ed tuition requirements uh something I wrote down
from the meeting is nothing is stopping us from using circuit breaker for moveins. So, uh, what is this picture? What do these pieces of information mean? They mean we don't know what the actual costs are going to be for next year yet. I
plan on voting in favor of advancing this budget, not because I believe that the schools are going to get 1.7 or cannot do it without 1.7, but because we have to start somewhere in order to get into the weeds and figure out how much Greenfield can afford reasonably to pay
and what we can do to maintain our legal obligations to our students and give them a really good experience and education on what we have available. Um, I I think it's really important that we don't demonize anyone at this table
or at the city council. We all care about uh our kids or else we wouldn't be here because, you know, it's such a thrilling, fun, rewarding thing to do. So I do think that we need to be very careful about the way we talk about this
to make sure that we are not attacking each other when we need to be working together as openly as possible. But I support moving this forward knowing full and well this is not what we are going to be receiving. This is just the
starting point. Here is status quo where we are. Now, let's figure out where the real numbers are, both from our side and from the city side in order to figure out how we can compromise and come to something that is workable for this year. Now, that said, we're going to be in so much trouble if we don't make
changes for next year. >> Thanks. Um, I think a lot of those same points were ones that I was planning to make. So, thanks for that, Member Childs. But the other pieces of this are is that some of the things that are being um put on the
table about regionalization, about closing schools are definitely not happening for this coming academic year. That would be irresponsible of us. Um and frankly, I don't hear a lot of um clamoring from some of our neighbors to be neighbors with us in a regional way.
Um, and like that is a both of those processes like it would be rushing for me to even do them for the following fall is coming, but the fall after that
it would seem like pretty a really short timeline. That's not to say we couldn't do it any I'm a firm believer that anything can be done if we really want it to be. Um, but I don't even know if we've had the preliminary discussions enough to know
what we would ask our neighbors for and what we would be willing to do. Um, I don't even know if we've had the conversations enough within our own community to know which building we would want to close if we could um or what that would actually do for folks.
Um, and so for me, I'm not saying that I don't want to have those conversations. I'm saying that I don't want us to do it in a way that is like a panic like oh crap our budget is falling apart, the sky is falling. Let's just do this
thing. Um I want to do those things because we really believe that is the best path forward for ourselves, our students, our community. Um and I I only want to do those things after we have thoroughly like figured out what are the long-term
potential impacts of these decisions that we're making. Um, yeah, that's that's my thing. >> Amber Goodwin, >> I just want to respond to something you said. So, there are people who've been working on regionalizing for over 10
years. There are people on school committees who have been doing that and Greenfield has never showed any interest in being part of those conversations. I mean, that's it's just sort of been
a thing. we can invite people here to hear their, you know, what the work they've done. So, we don't have to recreate the wheel. People have been doing this work. But Greenfield with I'll give you a perfect example.
Um, Turners and Gil Monagu and all of the other surrounding towns were coming to a table, especially in special education. They needed a school building to put special programs in. We were the only city or town that had an open
building, which was Green River at that time, but Greenfield would not come to the table to have that conversation. So, I'm pretty proud that as a group, we're people who will come to the table and at
least listen and participate in the conversation. And I think there are people we can invite to to hear what's been going on with those conversations. I mean, that's just something I want you to know. >> Thank you. Um, appreciate that. I will
say that I think that I even in my own comment, I got a little astray. We are not here to debate the merits of regionalization. We are not here to debate closing a building. We are here to vote on a budget. Um, and so I recall, are there any more comments specifically to this budget that is
presented before us? Yes, mayor. >> If we are putting that forward, I can't vote for that because we're putting it forward as is, it is more than we're legally able to do. So, I that's why I had some suggestions. You're with that budget, we
are over what a city could have if if there was no other city pardon budget, we'd be over a million7 $1,700,000 increase. as the lady I spent a little time on is more than we'd be able to go up with Prop two and a half just that
and now you know that there's other things in it. I I thought I felt like we had a little bit more work to do before that. I wouldn't vote for it because it's we don't have a way to fund that. It's over the amount. So to me it would
like if you said I'd rather take the entire thing if we could go up a million and a half then take that number but not a million7 that would mean you'd be thinking the rest of the city didn't have any contractual obligations as well and but
but I thought I I can't vote for something that's more than is in our our you know wheelhouse. Well, no, it's there's a lot of there's another crazy
ballot initiative out several of them that will come up this year that two and a half came forward with a ballot initiative, but it is here and we have to follow it. So, I feel like we would be sending something forward to me that I know right away is over the dollar
amount. Plus, I did, you know, we are there were other things that made us over. So, I felt like we had a little bit more work to do other than just looking at something and saying, "Okay." Um, I take every budget that comes to me and I go through it line by line and say,
"Have you spent all this last year? Were you under last year or over?" And I think we have a little bit more work to do than that. I'm not on the your ways and means or what do you call it? Finance committee. >> What do you call it? Finance. Budget. Budget.
>> I'm not on that one. I'm sure you probably all glad about that. But but anyway, um I take it seriously. I go through and I'm like, "Oh, look, there's we have a I mean I actually know where they are right now. We haven't bought the textbooks. There's $100,000 left in the textbook line. I know it's left in
the assistant superintendent line. Are we going to buy those this year? If not, it would be left over." I am also happy like with that our CFO brought up about having um what do you call it, Andy? The um Stephen suggested it's a leftover fund. um
uh >> stabilization >> something. Yeah. It was like if you didn't spend your things instead of trying to get rid of it at the end year like um Stephen talked about it was a different name for it >> something like that. And I said you know
um I felt like at the end of last year we were you know there were a lot of purchases that were made. We didn't spend a lot on salaries because we had so many vacant positions. So, but I feel that we have an obligation as a group to do something and certainly not to send
it forward with something that I knew was already over the dollar amount. But I'll be quiet outside. >> Okay. remember the >> um I I want to defend this budget because
our superintendent is our employee and he's fulfilled his roles and responsibilities which is to tell us how much it costs to educate our students. He's not his job is not to like figure out what the city can do. His job is to
figure out what we're a separate entity. School and city, we're separate, right? So his job is to come up with the budget that is about us, the school side, what we need to educate the students.
It's the city's job to take it away from us or find another way or tell us what we can have or wake us up to reality. So, I don't feel like I don't have frustration that our administration isn't that our school administration
isn't like considering what the city can do or not do because that's not their job. Their job is to tell us what we need to educate our students in this city to keep up with educational standards of this century. Like that's what he's saying. That's what he's
doing. We have that budget. I don't expect it to go through the way that he wants. But then again, I've seen budgets come on this table that are at 8% increases. Higher, way higher. There was one that was like almost 10 once. So, I was not surprised by seven. You know,
this is totally normal. This is on trend. We won't get it. And that's okay. But I don't want to like enemify our our administration cuz they fulfilled their job by putting forward this budget and telling us this is what you need to
fulfill your obligation. They know it's going to get cut. They said it ahead of time. So I just don't want to go down any kind of road where we're vilifying them in any way at all. on 11.
Sorry. >> Is that okay? >> Yes. >> It's a long stretch over there. >> Um and Jeff, there you go. Um, I just want to say that during our budget and finance meeting, uh, we very
much know we won't get it, but I think it's presenting something, having you look it over, having you go line by line, seeing possibly where we can cut things. Not that that's your job. It stuff I just don't think
we kind of need like a number in order to do that. So I think going through the process just moving this along right now and I think everyone has some very strong opinions on how they're going to. >> All right,
mayor. >> So I just think as a school committee I I first I'm not doing a fine interview. I think you did a very good job. >> Thank you. I do. I And I hope that nothing I said
made me feel like I was vilifying. I think you know that. I've told you that all year. You're doing a great job. Something comes forward. Just like I have department heads that come in and they bring they have their budget and they bring it in and they've done a very good job and they all try very hard. And
then because that's the ones that I look over, I would be like, I think we could do this here. You think they would need all of this? could we get away with thus and so but that would be between myself and the department head as a school committee I thought we would
you know at least that happened the first year more people were looking more at what things happened >> this one I thought you just say oh this all >> perfect I thought you did a very good job um and again I certainly want to break your feelings because I've loved
working with you but um I think that we have more than that to do to say hey look I think we could use more of this or that, but I can also read a room and see like how many votes there might be for one thing or another. But I do think
thinking about what is our role here. If our role is to take whatever is handed to us, then I guess I would have stayed home. Do you know what I mean? I I don't mean that fresh. I I mean that sincerely. If our goal is to take a school budget that is
handed to me or any budget that anybody hands me and say, "I don't do anything more about that. I'm just going to put that forward. It's perfect." I think that we're very intelligent people and if we could offer a few suggestions
kindly, which which is what I thought that's all. >> Right. We got member Childs and member Goodwin. Oh, >> probably go to good one first just for ease of turning the laptop. >> All right, member Goodman then member Charles. >> I feel like we're lost in the weeds.
Once again, the process is the issue. The process keeps changing in Greenfield for like the conversation. I've been doing this a long time. The process from Mayor Martin to Roxan Weeden Gardner.
A phone call between a superintendent and a mayor. Mayor gives the superintendent a number. The superintendent says, "Oh, that can't work." And then the mayor says, "Well, I could find this." I've stood in a room when those
conversations were happening on a phone. Then the superintendent makes a budget within the mayor's number. That's somehow in the last five six years it has become the school committee makes
a budget puts it in front of the mayor and says you have to produce this amount of money and then I've watched city council I've watched the mayor everybody be blamed people cry little children in
green suits brought forward to public comment. Really not a good process. We have to be in this together. So I think we need to we have the mayor here. We have the superintendent here. Define the process because the process keeps
changing and evolving based on who's sitting at this table. It was always clear. I've been an administrator since 1996. Doesn't matter where I worked. South Hadley, North Adams, Greenfield.
The mayor has a city to run. The school committee has schools to oversee with a superintendent who's hired to manage all that lovely money that we give him or her.
The mayor has a bigger picture than we do. They need to provide us with a number that we have to live within. If we get in trouble, say a roof blows off of one of our schools, we go to the mayor and
say, "Hey, we're in trouble." She did that for a fire panel. She did that for an elevator. We call insurance companies. This process has just evolved into whoever wants to do take control.
So the number should be between a superintendent and I agree we hire a superintendent. That number should be between the mayor and the superintendent and then we come back to the table if there needs to be cuts. We have a voice
in that. But I really feel strongly that this process has gone to the weeds. It needs to be clarified. Um, and I don't know if it needs to be put in a charter or where it needs to be, but I've lived
this process for a long time and I know our superintendent has too. And um, I've stood in front of town meetings on Mother's Day in South Hadley and fought for things that I believed in. I I just would say to you there is and
always has been in Massachusetts a process between the mayor and the superintendent. Um I feel like we're trying to butt into their process and it's between the two of them. >> Just don't tell me I'm wrong, but I feel
like we're lost on the lease. >> Um I had member child's on on stack. Would you like to respond directly to that right now? >> Uh yes. Okay. So for the process um when we were putting together the budget calendar some dates are already in
writing like we must have a budget hearing we must publish x days so some of that already has been codified I think I don't know that I can make a motion for it right now but I think it would be reasonable to post budget season send the budget calendar and
process to the subcommittee to do that deep dive review find ways to make a procedure that makes sense Does that's yeah that anyways back to the other thing. When I vote to advance this by no means am I saying this is a perfect budget.
I'm saying yes let's start these negotiations. Let's get these conversations going. We had to bring something to the table to start negotiating from. What we brought to the table was status quo level service plus
just a small amount reding. We know we're not getting that, but we know that you can't go in to buy a new car and say, "Okay, I'd like to buy a car. I'm not going to tell you my price range. I'm not going to say anything. Just give me a car." So, th this is just a
starting point for these conversations. >> Can we call the question? >> Yes. >> Yep. Question has been called. Um, >> so now we proceed to the vote directly. >> All right. >> So, the motion that is on the table is
to approve the budget as written. >> Um, and send that off to the mayor. >> Would you please call it? >> Chair Ston. >> Yes. >> Member Webb, I
I am a no. Vice Chair Childs, >> yes. >> Member Den, >> yes. Mayor disorder. >> No. >> Member Dyman. >> Abstain. >> Member Goodwin. >> No. >> Vote. >> Um,
we're going to have to I'm assuming that no one will change their votes in the interim. Um, aside from a member who may who abstained who may need to vote, otherwise we're hung. >> Okay. Um, then I will vote no. >> Okay.
So, that motion has failed. We're back at it. Um, we need a new motion put on the table because we have to forward something to the mayor >> by April 1st >> by April 1st, which is 6 days from now. So, we can either schedule a new meeting
or keep going on this meeting. My prerogative would be to get it done today rather than trying to find a quorum of us in the in uh the next six days. Um, so I'm looking for a motion
for a new dollar amount, >> a dollar or percentage. >> They would we would work it out one or the other, dollar or a percentage increase. So question is that we come up with a number then ask the
superintendent to redo the budget to show that that we very quickly get a vote on for April 1st or do we vote on that number and just their trust? Oh, sorry. >> No, I just I can for discussion purposes I just taking the mayor's thought on the
preschool revolving. I just put $500,000 as an offset for the budget, which brings it down to a 5.35% increase for a total amount of 1,267,48, which is offered. >> Can you say that again? When you move
that revolving, you got it to a 5.2 >> 5.35 >> 5.35%. >> Correct. >> For how much? $1,257,480 >> and that's using the rainy day fund. Correct. the preschool. No, the preschool revolving.
>> That's that's what I meant by that. >> What percentage of the preschool revolving would that be? >> 100%. >> Just I would just also
provide this caveat is that there's nothing saying that we couldn't do maybe 250 of the preschooling and 250 of transportation. I just took the $500,000 because the mayor identified so we could
keep it at the store towards the past once we get a number from the mayor to build this budget and then be able to realign it so cheap. >> So what was the percentage now?
>> 5.35%. that a starting point that you know folks are more comfortable with. >> I'm not >> I would be comfortable with that. So, >> all right.
>> I would like to move to approve to send the budget um revised down to the 5 >> 5.35 >> 35% increase. Second
want to roll call or do >> discussion. >> Yep. We can have some discussion. Um I've got myself and then I'll get you. Um in terms of process, one of the big three things that's ours to do is the
budget. And so I am not comfortable with a process that is between the mayor and the superintendent only because then what are we doing here? Then I might as well have stayed home. Um so I I think the process necessarily has to come through us and the mayor
certainly has a role to play in the way that our charter is set up. I'm not saying that she doesn't. Clearly she does. Um, but I'm not comfortable with the a singular person who is responsible for the entire city budget telling the
schools, "This is what you've got to work with. Do it or else." Um, I don't think that that's I don't think that that's appropriate. Well, it doesn't have to be here. Um, doesn't have to be. Uh, past president doesn't dictate
future action. Doesn't have to. Um, remember member Denise? >> Well, I don't think we're going to get 55%. I mean, we're going to get less of it. So, it's like it's neither here nor there whether
like where it comes from what happens if we take the $500,000 away from prek. Like, how does that how does that affect us from prek revolving if we really could there? What what would that affect? That's a question we should know. We have a pre
technically I would say it would just mean we would use another funding source to offset that whether it be school choice or potentially other whether or not they end up doing more say in the transation account and then freeze up money in the balance
of so that 500,000 even though for the discussion purposes brought forward would almost completely exhaust cost of preschool revolving account. It also does charge and it does regenerate some tuitions every year. You know, this has
been building up in past administration and kind of just used it as an say a contingency. So, available now and that's so chosen to do then by all means it can be regenerate slowly but then we do what I would call
the legitimate shell meeting if we need to to make those moves. That's why I just think that this is silly. Like we know we're going to get less than this budget so it can go forward and get chopped up the way that it always gets
chopped up and then we have to find a way to move it all around. It's like there's no great grand principle that's happening here if you decide that you want to lower the percentages to make the vote go through because we're not
even going to get the 5.3%. So, we could be here all night carving out percentages and it's still going to be the same end game. >> Let us vote on this revised percentage. >> That's great. Chair Son, >> yes. Secretary Webb, I'm a yes. Vice
Chair Childs, >> yes. >> Member Dene, >> yes. >> Mayor Disorder, >> abstain. >> Member Goodwin, I mean, wait. Member Dy, >> yes. >> Member Goodwin, >> abstain.
>> All right. So, I think it passes with two abstensions. >> We have a number. >> All right. Thank you all for that. Our next item is a vote to enter executive session pursuant to Mass
General Law Chapter 3A. >> No, you don't vote to call the question. You You call the question and then you vote. >> Question and then voted. You called the question, but you didn't actually have a vote. >> The chair is in charge.
>> Yeah. Um we just we just voted. the members understood that the motion was on the table and that we were voting the motion. Is that accurate? >> Great. >> Um, >> vote to enter executive session pursuant to Mass General Law Chapter 30A
subsection 21A2 to conduct strategy sessions in preparation for negotiations with non-UN personnel or to conduct collective bargaining sessions or contract negotiations with non-UN personnel and three to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining or litigation if an open meeting. will may
have a detrimental effect on the bargaining or litigating position of the public body and the chair so declares. Uh I do so declare and the committee will return to open session. Um motion >> move. >> Great. Uh we have a motion, a second or
no motion. >> Second. >> Second. >> Please call the role. >> Chair Samson. >> Yep. >> Secretary Webb, yes. Vice Chair Childs, >> yes. >> Member Den, yes. Mayor Disorger. >> Yes. >> Member Dyman. >> Yes. >> Member Goodwin.
>> Yes. >> All right. >> We are going to executive session at 7:31. >> Oh, we be coming back. >> We will be coming back to open session. >> Will return. >> The public meeting has resumed
recording. Um, we need a roll call vote to um resume the public session. >> Sorry. All good. >> Chair. >> Yep. >> We We totally out of order.
>> Chair disorder. >> Yes. >> Member Goodwin. >> Yes. >> Vice Chair Childs. >> Yes. >> Member Teneive. >> Yes. >> Member Dyman. >> Here. >> All right. We are returning to public session at 7:52 p.m. And moving on to
the next item, uh, which is item six on the regular meeting agenda. Uh motion to instruct the chair to sign the memorandum of agreement from the Greenfield Education Association. >> Second. >> Great. Motion and a second. Um any
discussion on that? >> Please call the vote. >> Chair Son, >> yes. >> Mayor Jorger, >> yes. >> Member Goodwin, >> yes. >> Secretary Web, yes. >> Member Vice Chair Childs, >> yes. >> Member Jen,
>> yes. Member Dyman. >> Yes. >> All right. That motion passes unanimously. Thank you folks. And now I'm looking for a motion to adjourn. >> Second. >> Excellent. We have motions from many and seconds. Um, please call the vote.
>> Mayor Dorder, >> yes. >> Member Goodwin, >> yes. >> Chair Saxton, >> yep. >> Secretary Webb, yes. Vice Chair Childs, >> yes. >> Member Den, >> yes. >> And member Dman, >> yes. >> All right. Thank you. We are adjourned at 7:53 p.m. Please enjoy the rest of
your evening. >> Thank you all.