In accordance with the Oklahoma Public Meetings Act, notice that this meeting has been sent to the retrospect and posted on the Burrow website, Burrow social media, and posted on the bulletin board in Barrow Hall and is being held in person as well as via Zoom. Uh, please stand for the pledge of
allegiance followed by a moment of silence. Tonight's moment of silence is dedicated to a child of Hadenfield who was lost way too soon for uh from cancer. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Brandon. Roll call, please. Roll call. Commissioner Sarah Cole, present. Here.
Commissioner Frank, present. Mayor Jell, uh, present. Uh, first, uh, on the agenda is certificates of appreciation for the Maple K Senior Center Tech Stu Tech Tutors. These are students who
offered their time all summer on Tuesdays, right Shar? Uh to help seniors with everything from helping them with their phone to helping them with their phone and probably cameras and email and all the other things that they curse secretly about until they show up. So,
uh if I call your name and you're here, please just stand up to receive your award. Oh, thank you. You're welcome. Yeah. Ryan Blackburn. All right. I Yep. Uh and William Blackburn is his brother. All right.
Maybe they'll be popping in. Drew Brand and Jack Brand. Why don't you guys come up? We'll do a picture at the end. We'll do a picture at the end. R Jack, hope I got it right. All right. I didn't see him swap, so I guess I got it right. Abby Frey,
Ellie Garrett. Thank you, Ellie. Henry Gish, Lily, Novc, Patrick Oberhozer, Jack Row.
Oh, you got James though. James, come on. I know Jack. Why does he have a Does he have a sport tonight? What's up with the wheel, buddy? All right. All right. Where was I? All right. Uh, Ash Seagull.
Thank you. All right, Rachel Tomkins, Katherine Usher and Marina Zervu. Oh, Brandon Casey is here.
Yeah. No, that's okay. Well, we'll have one up and and and we'll run downstairs. So, please Thank you. So, thank you very much for helping all the seniors in town uh email the three of us. Thank you very much. All
right. Facebook accounts. Oh, you helped her make Facebook accounts. Yeah. Right. Uh yeah. Oh, right. Yeah. It will give you a uh a prop.
Thank you, Sharon, for the whole program. All right. Thanks, guys. Oh, one more. Now, this is for Facebook. One, two, three. Thank you. Thank you.
get your broken thought. Next is I am Is the Is the ladder are the ladder guys here, Chief? Yeah. And so I'm going to move it around so that they can get back to work. Uh so I'm going to move and I'm going to skip
the proclamations right now. We'll get back to uh public comment. Uh proclamations first is and fire prevention week. Frank. All right. All right. proclamation is as follows. Whereas the burough of Hadenfield is
committed to ensuring the safety and security of all those living in and visiting our municipality and whereas fire is a serious public safety concern both locally and nationally. Whereas home fires caused nearly 2600 civilian deaths in the United States in 2020 according to the NFPA.
Whereas smoke alarms send smoke well before Uken, alerting to danger of the fire, which you may have as little as 2 minutes to escape safely. Whereas working smoke alarms cut the risk of dying in reported homes fires in half. Whereas burough residents should be sure
everyone in the home understands the sound of the smoke alarms and know how to respond. Whereas bur res burough residents who have planned and practice a home fire escape plan are more prepared and will therefore be more likely to survive a fire. Whereas burough residents need to make sure
their smoke and carbonide alarms meet the the needs of the family. Whereas burough first responders are dedicated to reducing the occurrence of home fires and home fire injuries through prevention and protection and education. Whereas burough residents that are responsible to public education
measures are able to take personal steps to increase their safety from fire especially in their homes. Whereas the 2025 fire prevention week theme, charge into the fire safely, lithium ion batteries in your home effectively serves to remind burrow residents important to have a uh a schedule for
checking your smoke alarms. And that's why it's important. Now therefore be resolved that we, the board of commissioners, the bureau of Hadenfield, do hereby proclaim October 5th through 11th, 2025 is fire prevention week and urge all residents to check their smoke detectors and set up a schedule. Check
them annually for fire prevention. And just a shameless plug, on October 9th at 6 p.m. is uh the uh fire prevention event at the u the fire department. So uh please stop by and encourage kids to stop by. It's a great event for them to
uh learn about our history, look at our our operating apparatus, and interact with all the volunteers in town. Thank you. Forgot to mention the soft pretzels too that we Oh, this is this is the Philly area. There's always
always And here who you're in the center. You get this. Yeah. Well, pretend like we all know two. Thank you. Oh, yes. Sure. One more, guys.
Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Well, I'll stay so we don't keep going back and forth. Uh, next we're going to recognize Hispanic Hispanic Heritage Month. Oh, thank you. Um, whereas in honor of the rich cultural
heritage and contributions of Hispanic and Latino Americans, the board of commissioners proclaim September 15th to October 15, 2025 as Hispanic Heritage Month. And whereas during this month, let us celebrate the diverse traditions, history, and achievements of Hispanic and Latino communities across the United
States. Let us recognize the resilience, creativity, and strength of Hispanic and Latino individuals who have shaped our nation in countless ways. Whereas, we urge all Americans to take this opportunity to learn about and appreciate the vibrant tapestry of Hispanic and Latino cultures and to
stand in solidarity with our Hispanic and Latino brothers and sisters. Let us continue to work towards a more inclusive and equitable society where all voices are heard and valued. Whereas, in honor of the 2025 Hispanic Heritage Month theme, collective heritage, honoring the past, inspiring
the future, let us all work to build a brighter future for all. Now, therefore, be it proclaimed by the Board of Commissioners of the Bureau of Hadenfield, County of Camden, and in the state of New Jersey that Sep September 15th to October 15th, 2025 is Hispanic
Heritage Month. And I invite uh Miss Anna Sanchez Hernandez, a Spanish teacher at the Hatfield Middle School. Oh, Patrick. He just took his AP uh Greek, ancient Greek and Latin test.
He loves language. Thank you. All right. Take care. Next up, we have breast cancer awareness month. Whereas too many Americans face the overwhelming shock of a breast cancer diagnosis. And whereas during the National Breast Cancer Awareness Month,
we dedicate ourselves to support patients and their families to raising awareness about the lifesaving importance of early screenings. And whereas breast cancer is the second most common form of cancer among women in the United States, where one in eight women will be diagnosed in their lifetimes,
including an expected 290,000 just in this year alone. And whereas the investments this country has made in research and screening technologies have made transformative groundbreaking immunotherapies and other new treatments that have changed the prognosis for so many and early detection is our most
important tool. Amen. And therefore be it resolved that we the commissioners of the board of Hatenfield County of Camden State of New Jersey do hereby proclaim the month of October 25, 2025 to be breast cancer awareness month. And we invite uh three members
from the Tiana O'Brien Foundation, Sarah O'Brien, Katie Bogle, and Bridget Mink. And since you're the dear Mure one, why don't you explain to folks about Breastfest Block Party? Oh, Breastfest Block Party is Oh, yeah. Think I need it. Zoom
Oh, Zoom. Hi, Zoom. Breastfest block party. Um, I think we're Don't tell anyone, but we might be moving Breastfest to Enfield. We're going to do a Breastfest block party on the 19th of October. It's a Sunday. Yes, it is an Eagles game and we love the Eagles. So, we are we are planning for that. It's going to be from 2 to 7:00 p.m. right on
Mechanic Street, similar to the event that we all love in Hanfield and it's all about um our mom died of breast cancer when we were young and we were all very local and everything. It's 100% volunteer run and everything stays local. We partner locally with Virtua and they have a fund called the Tyiana Barry Breast Care Cumber Fund. So it's
all for patient care. So come out and party though because that's fine. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. All right. Now thank you. Two more. Uh. Oh, three more. All right. You Why don't you do the next? Whereas home should be a place of
warmth, unconditional love, tranquility, and whereas the crime of domestic violence violates an individual's privacy and dignity, security and humanity due to systematic use of physical, emotional, sexual, psychological, and economic control or abuse including abuse to children and
elderly. And whereas the problems of domestic violence are not confined to any group of people but cut across all economic, racial and societal barriers and are supported by societal indifference. And whereas the impact of domestic violence is wide ranging directly affecting individuals and
society as a whole as well as here in this community and throughout the United States and the world. And whereas battered women have been in the forefront of efforts to bring peace and equality to the home. Now therefore be resolved in recognition of the important work done by domestic violence programs
that we the commissioners of the bureau of Hadenfield County of Camden State of New Jersey do hereby proclaim the month of October 2025 to be domestic violence awareness month and we'd like to invite up here Megan Laapour uh who is chief of staff for center for family services to
accept Take a quick one. New Jersey is in the midst of a life-threatening thank you opioid abuse ep epidemic causing unnecessary death and addiction in New Jersey. And whereas in 2019, Governor Murphy signed Senate
Joint Resolution 35 recognizing October 6th as Knockout Opio opioid abuse day and it is now PL 2019 JR16 recognized by the Partnership for a Drug-Free New Jersey. And whereas Knockout Opioid Abuse Day is designed to raise awareness
about the dangers of and the link between opioid abuse and heroin addiction and to educate health care providers, community leaders, lawmakers, and members of the public about the opioid abuse epidemic and its effects throughout the state of New Jersey and across the country. And whereas in order
to improve public awareness of the dangers of opioid addiction and the link between opioid addiction and heroin use, it is both reasonable and appropriate to invite New Jersey citizens to observe knockout opioid abuse day in this state and to participate in appropriate
activities in relation thereto. Now therefore, be it resolved by the board of commissioners of the Burough of Hatenfield, Camd County of Camden, state of New Jersey, in order to raise awareness about the dangers of and the link between opioid abuse and further addiction. We recognize October 6th as
Knockout Opioid Abuse Day. And be it further resolved that a copy of this proclamation will be forwarded to Governor Murphy, the state New Jersey Department of Human Services, Senate President Scarul Scutari, Assembly. Yeah, I butcher every name I read. Uh,
Assembly Speaker Cochland, Senator James Beach, Assemblyman Lou Greenwald, and Assemblywoman Pamela Lampett, the Partnership for a Drug-Free New Jersey and New Jersey State League of Municipalities. Thank you. Uh, and tonight we invite Dan De Joseph,
director of the Opioid Use Disorder Center of Excellence to accept this award. Sorry, proclamation. Thank you very Thank you. And last but not least, whereas the friends of historic of the Hatenfield Public Library raised money
that enables our library to move from good to great, providing the resources for additional programming, muchneeded equipment, support for children's summer reading, and special events throughout the year. Whereas the work of the friends highlights on an ongoing basis the fact that our library is the cornerstone of the community providing
opportunities for all to engage in the joy of lifelong learning and connect with the thoughts and ideas of others from ages past to present. Whereas the friends understand the critical importance of well-funded libraries and advocate to advance to ensure that our library gets the resources it needs to
provide a wide variety of services to all ages including access to print and electronic materials along with expert assistance in research readers advisory and children's services. Whereas the friends gift of their time and the commitment to the library sets an example for all how volunteerism leads
to positive civic engagement and the betterment of our community. Therefore, be it resolved by the board of commissioners that October 9th to 25th, 2025 is proclaimed as friends of the library week. And I will be delivering this to the board tomorrow at our board
meeting. All right. Now, back to our regularly scheduled program. Okay. At this time, I'm going to make a motion to open the floor for public comment period for items listed on the agenda. There will be a second comment
period for all other items at the end of the agenda. So, at this time, just items listed on the agenda. May I get a motion? Uh motion to open to public comment for items listed on the agenda. I second the
motion. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Troy in favor. May I sign up? In favor. Um I invite you to the lect turn for a five minute up to five minutes and the clock will be kept by
our communication director uh for any comment on the agenda. The floor is open. Hi there. Uh this is Amy, excuse me, Amy Amy of Lacore. I'm losing my voice. I apologize. Uh I live at 740 Cedar here in Hadenfield. And I'm just um I'm want
to speak regarding the uh ordinance uh chapter 158. And I want to thank uh you all so much for considering reconsidering and tableabling the event the second reading um of the ordinance for this evening um because I think it is an issue that deserves um more thought. So thank you very much.
Thank you. Good evening. Uh Kathy McGee, Windsor Avenue. I just wanted to take this moment to thank the board as well. Um, I think it's really good when you hear the citizens and you obviously did. So, we
appreciate that. And I also wanted to say that there are people out there that would be willing to help on committees or whatever. Um, I certainly am. I have background in nursing and um I have some connections in the area with regard to
social services and that kind of thing. So, feel free if you're forming committee. I would really appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you. Hello. Uh Beth Wolf 218 or 218 Lake View. I'm also speaking
in regard to the peace in good order ordinance. And I want to finish the last time I was here. I didn't get to um ask a question and I know you answered them at the end so I'm not expecting that. But I did want to ask a question in regard to the US Supreme Court in city
of Grant Pass versus Johnson ruled that towns can regulate public spaces as long as the rules address conduct not class. Yet at the August 25th meeting, we had the attorney here that said that was illegal. So my question, which I think
is for S, is so which is it? Is this ordinance legally sound under both state and federal? Yes or no? Because residents deserve the truth. And if we're worried about lawsuits, we also need to consider the other side.
Lawsuits from residents if someone gets hurt because our community is becoming lawless and the commissioners failed to act. And now since this ordinance is being tabled, how are we as residents being protected? Because it's obviously
clear the police can't do it alone. Since the last time I was here at this meeting, we've had several real life examples. There have been two more incidences with the same woman, which I have a picture of the same woman.
Um, my friend's business was accosted. She was outside banging on the door. Let me in. Let me in. Let me in. And her admin did not let her in, obviously. And she has a dog bowl and biscuits outside
for the dogs. It's in a container. And she was like, "Can I have more of these?" D. Then their client who was coming to the place of business showed up and she started throwing the biscuits at the dog. So the police were called, that was
handled. She was transported. She was then seen about 5 to 10 days later at Jersey Java and was acting erratic and walking around and many people felt unsafe in that situation.
So then the last two times at the um farmers market, there was someone protesting Okay. With a curse word on his hat. F U
C K ICE. Farmers market. Very familyfriendly. And it had a curse word on there. So I'm wondering is that a protest or is that intimidation? Cuz when I moved here, family Hadenfield
was familyfriendly, respectful, and safe. Lastly, at the Hadenfield talks that we had with Commissioner Cole, she keeps reiterating about there's only four to six homeless people in Hadenfield. But four to six is already a
lot for a community that had none. And this isn't even about the homeless anymore. This is I feel like about law and order. And I was we had a great conversation with Dave last Monday, my girlfriend and I. And we're just not
feeling safe and we are not alone. And I also need to add again, anyone who in this room, anyone who knows me in this room knows that I have had extreme upfront and close and all, I get mental health. I've had a mental health person
living in my home with mental health with addiction. So, I get it. I respect it. I get it. It's scary. And we need to find a balance cuz the
community does not feel safe. whoever you know and I'm speaking for a lot of other people who are afraid to come up and speak for fear of retaliation against their
business, for fear of retaliation against their kids. So that's it. Thank you. Thanks, Beth. Mayor Tardi. Good evening. Jack Tardi, 308 Washington
Avenue. Uh, as I thought about this and read the articles recently about the homeless issue. It occurred to me that if there are three, four, five people in this town who happen to have picked this community in which to live but don't
have a home, they're they're residents of our community too just as well as we are. The difference is they have no structure in which they can live. And I think that uh in many cases folks that are in that situation are in that situation because of of mental issues. I
don't think that I' my experience is that we have I've not heard of any criminal acts on the back that can directly be attributed to these folks that have elected to select our community. I would also I would suggest two thoughts. Number one, a number of
years ago, we formed the human relations commission. And the purpose then and you may want to check the the ordinance. The purpose then is to provide a means to deal with these kind of issues on a communitywide basis to help the commissioners if you will pick up get
representative information from relative other rather relatives in the community and get a sense of what we should do in dealing with or providing for let's I rather use the term providing for than dealing with uh these individuals who
have elected to select 0833 just not having a physical location that we have whether it's my house on Washington Avenue or or somebody else's house in town. So I would suggest that we we look to the Human Relations Commission uh to
uh to come up with some ideas. Lastly, I think it's been suggested more than once. Years ago, the Council of Churches had a social worker and each church in town contributed to that social worker's salary. And I think that we may want to go back out to the church, the
community, which most of us have some relationship with, and look for the the churches again to have the social worker, which can assist the burrow and assist us in helping these folks find a way in which they can reside safely and
continue to enjoy the community as we do. Thank you. Thanks, Jack. Uh my name is Michael uh Westmon. Um I'm glad you're uh tableabling it. Um
I just had a few things I'd like to talk about. Um some statistics are related to the um homelessness ordinance. Um, crim uh criminalizing homelessness is
forcing people into a never- ending cycle of poverty and in many cases death. According to the NHCHC, unhoused people are around four times more likely to die
than housed people. Unhoused people on average die 20 years younger than house people. Uh unhoused people also have a 60% greater mortality risk than um other poor but housed people.
Um on any given night in the US there are also 33,000 veterans experiencing homelessness. Um in the US uh the homeless population was about 771,000 people. Uh that was
from January 2024. Um, LGBT LGBTQ youth are also 120% more likely to experience homelessness than straight cisgender peers. Um, it's also an issue for senior people.
People over 50 now make up nearly half of the single adult homeless population in the US. Um, besides these statistics, it's also far more expensive to arrest and imprison and incarcerate people who are homeless than it would be to provide them with the resources they need to get back on their feet.
A report from the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty found that the cost of incarcerating someone for an offense related to homelessness can be upwards of $30,000 per year. According to another study from 2019, uh they estimated that the turn between
homelessness and incarceration is estimated at $83,000 annually per individual. Another report out of Florida also found that the annual cost of repeatedly arresting 33 frequent homeless people was roughly $171,000
per person. This same amount of money could be used to provide a person with permanent housing, healthcare, job training, or social services support that would actually help them get out of homelessness and rebuild their lives. As a society, we've invested in some systems that protect people from harm.
We fund fire departments so houses don't burn down. We fund EMS so when people get uh hurt they they have the help they need. We also fund public schools so children can learn and grow. But when it comes to homelessness the only the only offer it seems is
persecution and violence and alienating them from public spaces. According to also uh invisible people a support network for homelessness. 20 people a day die due to homelessness. This is also in stark contrast to four people who die a day due to house fires.
This is not the societ kind of society and community we should strive to build. Instead of criminalizing those who are suffering, we should ask ourselves how we can help and how we can break the cycle of poverty. How can we invest in resources that would allow the most vulnerable people in our community the ability to uh regain their dignity and
their place in society? Um, it's it's it's very concerning um that this was even being considered in the first place. And I think it's an indictment of those who even considered it. It demonstrates a failure of trying or caring. I'm glad you're tableabling
it. But the fact that it was even introduced says a lot. When you vote to when you when you criminalize homelessness, you're telling your fellow Americans that if you fall through the cracks, you're worthless and
you don't matter. By voting to criminalize homelessness, you're telling the working-class veterans, LGBTQ, and the elderly that are struggling to survive dayto-day, that you're expendable, that your value to society, society is based solely on your ability to keep up and to obtain capital. If you cannot, you're
discarded. you're no longer worthy of compassion, respect, or even a place to exist in public or society. That's all I have to to say on this, but I appreciate you your time and thank you for tableabling it. Thank you, Michael.
seen. Oh, hi there. Uh, my name is Julia. I'm also on Westmont A. Um, again, I wanted to thank you guys for tableabling this amendment because as we know, this is an issue that has a lot of moving parts. It's not so black and white. Um, I just wanted to make a comment that um, a lot
of the issues that I've been hearing about tonight um, and just from the last meeting in general um, in which people claim to feel unsafe in their businesses and their homes, it kind of to me it sounds like it's more of an issue with mental illness than with homelessness. Um, we can't assume that these people
that are causing these issues are indeed homeless. They could be coming from all sorts of areas. Um, and uh, again, I'm glad that this was tabled because um, the amendment really wasn't going to help the people who are already homeless. Um, in terms of dealing with
people with mental illness, um, I just want to tell people out in the community if they feel unsafe, that we already have laws in place um, with the police uh, to deal with people who are experiencing a mental health crisis. um they could get the people that are um
maybe feeling um the people that are acting out in public, screaming, throwing things. If you feel unsafe, you could just call the police and they could get have the person be evaluated or whatnot. So, um thank you for not um blaming this all on the five homeless
people we have in this community. Thank you. Thank you. Seeing no others in the room, I'm going to move to Zoom. Uh if anyone would like on Zoom to uh speak on any agenda item, please raise your hand to be recognized
and we will uh invite you to unmute. All right. Seeing none online, I'm going to make a motion to close uh public comment on items listed on the agenda. Can I get a second? Second. Commissioner Cole
in favor. Commissioner Troy in favor. Side down. Uh in favor. Uh I'm going to make a comment uh now before we move on to ordinances and that is so a few people have sent in items to ask to be read into the record. uh
during uh the second reading of an ordinance. That is the public comment period. That would be the only time we we would entertain reading items into the record. I will strongly suggest uh that anyone who has anything to say on any matter in front of us uh attend a
and speak because it's not just your words, it's also the emotion behind them, the intent. Uh we you know there's what they say most of the communication is non-verbal. uh it cannot be expressed uh by me reading it dispassionately. Uh also understand to send email to the
three of us is actually public record as well as our emails are all uh operable to uh any topic. So uh please feel free to share your thoughts with us in any of the mediums whether it be out of public comment period or uh written to the three commissioners. Thank you.
Moving on uh we're going to move on to ordinances. The first ordinance on the agenda is the second. Oh yeah, sure. Oh, yeah. No, no, thanks for the reminder, Frank. Before I move on, I recognized four question or three questions uh that were came from the
public comment period. I will read them and then we'll address them if we want to. Uh if any of us want to address any part of it. Uh the first question came from Beth Wolf. Uh grant pass u was that illegal? Uh that's the Supreme Court ruling. And then the second question
also from Beth Wolf. Uh what does tabled mean? So S can you explain a little bit about the legality if you if you would or just any comment about um just in very general terms certainly the the the the decision that Berth referred to last year from the United
States Supreme Court is the of course the highest court in the land. That's the law. Hey S, can you pull that closer? the the decision that was referred to from last year by the United States Supreme Court is of course the highest court in the land. There is no court of appeal beyond
that. So um in lawyer speak and I apologize for the lawyer speak it's it's settled law. That's the state of the law at this time. So that is the current state of the law is the decision that was issued last year and the decision was I I don't have a committee. I'm sorry.
No, that's okay. Sorry about that. The grant pass is is is the law of the land. Thank you. I'm sorry about that. So then what does tabled mean? Tabled means that uh we will make a motion to not take action on this item tonight. Uh that doesn't mean that it's gone. It just means that we're we're not taking
action on it tonight. Um and that for a variety of reasons. So I'll if you either of you want to say anything about that before I I do go right in. So what this has done is kicked off an
entire process of research for us. The first step was to open it up to public comment to get a vibe of the community and where people want to take this. The community came out, we heard from folks, but that doesn't mean that we're not recognizing that this is a problem or that we don't want to do something about
it or we want to ignore it. Absolutely not. In fact, what we started to do on our own time um is additional research into this topic. What has worked? what hasn't worked? What are some datadriven evidence-based uh strategies to work with the homeless
or work with people who have mental illness who may be causing um distress to the community? How can we actually introduce um introduce options to really help people in a sustainable way without
exposing ourselves to potential legal risk or um really strategies that don't work as well? So this has kicked off a process. This is not the end of it. We are going to keep taking action. It just will not be through an ordinance like
this. It will be through other methods like starting um a nonprofit so we can hire a social worker who can work to build relationships and trust with those folks. Um connect them to resources, track their progress, make sure that they are sticking to stable housing,
understand why they're falling off track, right? be able to connect them again over and over because something like mental illness is not a oneanddone solution. Um so what we really want to do is make sure we're we're keeping in track track of um of folks and
understanding why they're falling off. Again, there's no one single solution that's going to address everybody. So we just want to be really mindful and and thoughtful. So this just needed a little bit more research. It needed a little bit more thought. And so we can now continue with that process.
still confused. Beth, the public comment period's over. Uh, Frank, she'll have three more minutes after we speak, right? Or Yeah, you there's more time that you can have at the end of the the meeting on any agenda. I mean, on anything. Oops. Sorry. Uh,
no, it usually doesn't work that way. Just stick around. Uh, so one of the questions that was raised uh was about safety and uh well, a couple things. So, I'll get the safety. Um, you know, uh, I would say
that I was probably the, you know, the lightning rod on this, you know, which is fine, uh, because quite honestly, for a long period of time, uh, caught months at a time, uh, you know, maybe even a year at a time, you know, people were happy walking by people who were suffering and not doing anything about
it. And if it's buying someone a sandwich and stuff like that, you're really not helping the person. Uh, someone mentioned the stats up here. Uh there's a Harvard study that says that if you don't solve homelessness in the first year, there's only a 12% success rate from years two and beyond. So if
you don't fix it right away, that person is basically homeless forever or until they die a very young death in a lot of cases. U why I think the law is still valid or why I think the ordinance is still valid and um you know it only someone who is you know probably a
military officer can appreciate this. Um, but you long time ago when I was a young junior officer, I had a lot of young sailors in my care and in a lot of cases those people were probably not too far away from being homeless themselves, quite honestly. And what I found is the
first year um, you had to really employ tough love with these people to try and keep them on track and try and make it so they were showing up on time and not committing crimes, not showing up late and not falling back into the bad habits that got them there in the first place. And so there's something to be said for,
you know, passing an ordinance that and uh there was someone who shared pictures of of two people that were homeless. And I would say these people, if I had a guess, and as I got older, I'm probably not great at guessing ages, but one was probably a teen, maybe 20, and another one was probably early 20s. And I look
at those people and say like, you're in a situation where the police can do nothing to help these people if they don't want to move. where in some cases I think it'd be really good if that person had to stand in front of the judge and the judge who would empathize tough love with that person say here are your choices in life you have to get
into a program you have to get straightened out you have to you know see a light outside of what you're doing presently or you're going to find yourself in a tough situation here be it you know the court system or whatever the case may be and if you can save one of those people if you have one of those people that just recently became
homeless and said hey you know what I'm glad this judge is putting me in the right direction. Maybe I will go to school. Maybe I will learn a trade. Maybe I will join the military. Maybe I will get myself back on track and someday be a doctor, lawyer, whatever the case may be. Um, but you know, I appreciate that, you know, pumping the
brakes on this, but you know, realize that it's not solving the problem. There's nothing to celebrate here. Um, you know, other than the fact that we're maybe kind, you know, um, you know, employing different levers and and stuff like that. But my one ask of all those
levers that we're pulling is we have to move quickly because I've been involved with a lot of organizations where uh perfection is the enemy of good and you just tread water for months and years and you're waiting to find the perfect solution and all the while you have another person dying on the doorsteps of
cafe lift and is there a victory there? I don't think so if people are still suffering. So my ask of the the council of churches was to move quickly with this. The other thing is to have metrics in place. You know, we we scorecard. Uh you Chief Gorman just walked out, but
you know what you want to hear from the police department, the fire department is how fast you respond? How you know uh were the people saved? What were the action items when you got there? Well, if you're saying that this is a better solution is to have social workers, uh you know, residents, nurses, cowboys, I
really don't care who the resources are, but if you're going to have those people, I want metrics in place to say how long did it take to get there. If chief is and his people can can show up in let's say five minutes I want the social worker to show up in five or or less and if that person can't do it the metrics will reveal that and we say why
and that's how you you problem solve in corporate America you ask why five times you start getting the root cause and then again that's why I want to have a place or a a plan in place quickly because uh it's not going to be perfect your first time out of the shoot and what you're going to do is improve it and get better and better and better
until it does wind up being perfect. Uh, I still want to um, you know, to have this as a lever to pull here that if we're not seeing significant progress, if we're seeing bureaucracy, if we're seeing, you know, poor poorly constructed metrics or lots of money
being spent and and nothing to show for it, I think we have to revisit this and say, have we exhausted all options or maybe have to look at like a state level or a county level and put these things in place. But um what I ask between now and then is and safety is paramount for
everyone. And so if you see something, if you don't feel comfortable, um it doesn't look right, feel right, whatever the case may be, uh call the police department and have someone out there and address as soon as possible. And you know, for for the people say, well, there's only like three to four to five
and like they're harmless people that I I disagree. And uh on December 8th, there was an incident on Patco or at PACO where someone threatened to uh stab someone in the throat and um and to the point where the police were called. They
showed up as did DRPA. That person ultimately was let go and then she proceeded to slash the tires of four maybe six cars. I forget how many. So, uh, you know, if you say, well, you know, they she didn't really slash anyone, you know, in the throat, so that's okay. And didn't really and she
spit in someone's face on the way out, too, and then slashed these these tires. Well, it's not a victimless crime, you know. One is like I mean, by definition that the person was assaulted, you know, they were not battered, but they were assaulted. And fortunately, it was, you know, five guys that were standing there. The reason why I know so much
about it is I was one of them. I texted chief that morning, so I witnessed the whole thing. So they're not just uh you know um you know um victimless crimes. They're not just uh people who are you know kind of gentle in some cases. There are people here to to to do harm. And in
the case of those four or six cars, forget how many it were. You know what if those people were at the Patco line that took the line into Philadelphia to make some extra money to make their ends meet or to buy holiday gifts or something like that only to come back and find that now they're facing $1,000
towing fee and new tires and that sort of thing you know is that fair for uh you know for that person you know and I think that's the things that we have to kind of weigh here that yes there is empathy and sympathy for the people who are homeless but you also have empathy and sympathy for the people who are
residents here and and those residents by definition are people in my opinion, people who pay to live here, who pay taxes, who contribute to society. And so I'm willing to give it some time, look into it, you know, kind of pull different levers here, but I want metrics. I want those metrics reported
on, you know, weekly, monthly basis, whatever you establish. I want them to be meaningful, and I want to see significant change here. I'm willing to work with everyone, but um you know, I'm going to start the uh you know, the time clock on this and make sure we're doing this in pretty short order. Thank you.
So, the third question that was asked was by former mayor Jack Tarditti uh about the human relations commission. Yes, Jack. So from an information standpoint and from helping us understand the issue and the resources that are out there, there's been assignments done at the uh HRC level to
start gathering that information for us and pos possibly put together a forum for town to educate people about why homeless and and what you know what causes homelessness, why people are there, what services can help. Uh and then also you asked about the social worker. I think that's already been
addressed that uh but what but I I do want to clear up one thing about the ordinance. It's not an ordinance to help the homeless. It's not an ordinance to arrest the homeless. This is an ordinance to last chance effort protect
the community. We're giving all the birth all a wide wide birth for society for all the social services out there to affect change in homelessness in Hadenfield. uh but in the absence of success of that
social framework there has to be a safety net and that safety net is public safety. Uh and so this ordinance is still about the tools necessary to protect Hatenfield's society
when society fails and and so we're giving all the space in the world uh for the societal effort to help those individuals but but any ordinance in our book is the what you can do and what you can't do.
Uh, and I'm still in favor of establishing some some method of tools for our public safety officials to uh address the
the root safety issue. Not the root cause of homelessness, not the individual. It's safety of of of our citizens. I mean, that's we're up here for three things, you know, smooth roads, safe living and collecting the taxes to pay
for A and B. I mean, that's what we do. Uh, society does the rest. So, now you understand how the three of us feel. Uh, so I'm moving to ordinances now. Uh, and
I'm going to mention ordinance 202511 amend chapter 158 entitled peace and good order on its second reading and public hearing. And I am going to make a motion to table this to another date. Can I get a second?
Second. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Troy in favor. Mayor in favor. Uh the second ordinance is a first reading. So this is the introduction of this ordinance uh for
consideration and for a 30-day a minimum of 30-day public comment period. Uh and that is 202512 amending chapter 109 entitled filming commercial first reading. So uh Sharon could you give us a little background on
this before I make a motion? Certainly. um two years ago I believe we started this um New Jersey is trying to become Hollywood East and so what they have put
in place is um items up at the state that are trying to have regulations and policies that are all the same for any of the municipalities that want to participate uh in this program with them. And then
they will provide recommendations to any of the entities that they're working with that are coming in to do films or um videos or commercials in New Jersey and try and send them along to the people municipalities that are participating with them. Uh so we had
put an ordinance in place. They had made some changes to their program as they went along and so the changes tonight are just those minor changes that they've requested us in order to stay participating in their program. It's like the number of days they can film, the number of days they can pull a
permit. Correct. The fee that would be fees. Yeah, sure. All right. Thank you. So, I would like to make a motion to introduce the amendments to chapter 109 entitled filming and commercial on its first reading. Can I get a second?
Second. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Troy in favor. Yes, I do. In favor? We're We're a Hallmark town. We might as well have Hallmark movies. Um I'm actually excited about this one.
So, next resolutions under the consent agenda. Resolutions in under the consent agenda have been placed by the board of commissioners and will be enacted in one motion. There will be no separate discussion of any of these items unless requested by a board member. So, I'll go
through the list. Item 130, the authorization to pay vouchers. Authorization 131 to approve general event permit applications of various locations and various events. Uh 132, the authorization to approve outdoor
marketing display for 10 Kings Court. 133, the authorization to approve the first amendment to the redevelopment agreement with Woodmont Hadenfield LLC. And 134, the authorization to amend approval for Lions Club's fall festival
and get from Sharon. we got from Sharon. Uh so uh can can I get a motion for resolutions under the consent agenda 130 to 134? Uh motion to approve resolutions on consent agenda numbers 130 through 134.
and I'll make the second uh from a discussion standpoint of from an interest of it's always an interest uh can we discuss the of the amendments to the redevelopment agreement with Woodmont Hatenfield LLC? Yes, sir. Thank you.
Uh there are two minor amendments to the redevelopers agreement. um when we were working with Fairshare Housing on finalizing our third round plan that is up for compli uh its compliance hearing at the end of this month. There were two
things that they had requested that Woodmont change. um their interpretation of the the designation of rooms uh for bedrooms and and amongst the very low low and moderate were slightly different than
what we had originally agreed to was in our plan. So they asked us to amend that. Woodmont was in agreement with that. They also asked for Woodmont to extend the controls on the units from 30 to 40 years. 40 years is now part of the
new fourth round plan. Um and Woodmont did agree even though this was under the third round plan that they did agree to extended to 40 years controls on the units. Those are the two changes to the uh red and because of our we're going for our compliance hearing. We needed to
have the redevelopment a amendment a or the amendment to the redevelopment agreement done prior to the compliance hearing. All right. Great. Thank you for that explanation. The Lions Club fall festival made adjustments to their rain date to uh be able to use various parts
of the burrow. Uh the rain date would not include the crafters because uh they cannot accommodate the rain. Uh but everything else would uh go on in the rain and we adjusted the request for that. Uh and then general event permit applications. is the only one I will mention uh specifically because we
mentioned it tonight and that was Breastfest's fall festival uh lock party or the name's still not sticking but it's it's actually a great event. Breastfest. Come on. So um if there's no other discussion,
uh I'll call the question. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Troy in favor. Sandell in favor. And that brings us to the end of the consent agenda and it opens us to the second motion to of public comment
on all matters. So, thank you for sticking around, Beth. Uh, so I'm opening the floor for public comment on all other matters and I'm making the motion. Can I get a second to open the second? Commissioner Nicole in favor. Troy in favor.
Mayor Sad in favor. I'm inviting anyone about anything to the the lect turn. Yes. Yeah. Oh, no. You got to come up though. I'd love to sit in chat, but it's a little more official than that.
Like, can I bring it this time? Uh, I'm kidding. As long as you share. So, only white because it's just for S. I'm still confused about the answer to my question. Yeah. I mean, I I don't I don't mean to be vague. I don't have that. Grant Pass versus Johnson ruled that towns can
regulate public spaces as long as the rule addresses conduct, not class. That's the answer. So that so is the answer when you're saying we're in people are afraid of getting sued or having more lawsuits
against us. Isn't Grant versus PAS saying that that's not true? That we can't have lawsuits against us? Oh, we will still get lawsuits. We may win. Okay. Still get lawsuits. So, okay. And by any chance I I'm putting you on
the spot. Do you happen to have the statistics? When was the last meeting I was here? August. Was it a month? No, it was in September. It was at the work session. I don't think you went to the work session. When was the work session? September 8th or 9th. 8th or 9th. So, do you by any chance
have any statistics what has happened from the last work session when I was here until today? Don't have any actual numbers. I know we've dealt with some issues, one one or two of the issues that you brought up. Okay. I don't have the exact
You want to email me, I can get them to you. Okay. And do I have to email specific like emotion ed emotionally disturbed um
misconduct? Like I know that there's specific language. Do I need to use that specific language to get those answers? Just just ask in plain terms what what you're looking for and I I'll I'll discern. Okay. And I will ask you if I have any questions. We'll we'll have a dialogue.
Wait. Okay. Sorry. Thank you. Wait, wait, Beth. One more thing though. You asked about the um Supreme Court case, right? So that's a federal law. I know. I'm learning. State law can still ban it. So under state law, we may we like we
may not win this. Got it. That makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. Since you're new, name and street or name in town. I'm sorry. Is it name and street or name and town?
John Polo, Concord Circle. Uh, I manage the King's Court condominiums, the residential and the stores. And I'm here to ask which I asked on September 2nd of Sharon if the town had any interest uh in buying the
COA unit currently owned by uh foreclosed on by TD Bank. And the reason why I'm the association is asking this is for 15 years the association has endured the previous owner not paying their condominium fee. And although
there are legal remedies, the restriction on what you can sell the unit for made it so it was not uh induc conducive for the association to foreclose and it was not in conducive for TD to foreclose until finally they I
guess they finally gave up and and foreclosed. So that's what I'm asking if the town has any interest in purchasing the unit from TD Bank to make it a rental unit that the town would then control. Could Could I just before you interject
um I think just for the record it's very important I actually represented King's Court condominium association John 15 years ago 20 years ago. I forget how long it is. I mean, it's been a substantial period of time and I remember I I did some legal representation on behalf of King's Court
in regard to that unit specifically. So, I think whatever whatever answer whatever Yeah. We can't ask you. You have to recuse. I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's probably well outside I I think it's it's got to be more than 10 or 15 years ago. But I think just to be just to be abundantly clear and to protect everybody um did represent that association a long time
ago. So, mayor, just also just to add, John has called. He's he sent the initial letter and then he's called. I am actually in correspondence with Mary Beth, our planner, to find out the legal requirements of whether we can spend our money on that since it was already a unit or not. So, we're working through
that and this was going to be an item on your work session next Monday. Okay, great. Thank you. Another question. Uh, which commissioner does public works? Uh, guilty. I I I believe I sent a letter to you also about the trees along King's Highway and
the trees in King's Court. They uh they grow like weeds and the squirrels can jump from them onto the building. Right now we have four units being attacked by squirrels. They're chewing through the squir screens. They're
actually once they get through the screen of the French door, they are chewing on the French doors, chewing on the hardware. And we've hired um over the years, over the last 15 years. I've been managing it since 2011
uh over these years, we've hired several uh pest control companies that have trapped them, taken them away wherever they take them, crows woods or whatever. And of course, there's so many squirrels downtown that they just come back. And
if you cut the trees back, they stop. They stop jumping onto the building. and we we don't see them for 2 three years, but you got to do it every two to three years. So now we're at the point where it's two to three years. The court was cut last year, but they missed some
branches. So if you walk down in front of the stores and look up, you can see several of the whatever those flowering trees are that are in the court. You can see couple of branches that come over and the squirrels can actually jump onto the building and jump from the building
back onto the the branch. And then the oak trees that are on Kings Highway, same thing. The branches are up over the building. They jump onto the building. They jump back onto the tree. Okay. Have we cut those trees back as the burrow because of this reason before?
Yes, for this reason. I've gone to the president shade tree commission and and asked for it and they they've uh authorized it. They authorized it. Okay. Yeah. It wasn't uh is it Bill Ober now? Bill Ober is still the superintendent. Yeah. Okay. It was the guy before him, Greg Lei.
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. It was he he was uh I think he was the one who was uh the uh public works guy. Okay. So I do I will have to ask for direction here because if this is a there's a precedent
is this something we can continue to do. I don't know if that's a reason that you know for us to trim trees. So I just need to get some guidance. I'm not not asking you to cut them down. I know. I'm just sh get it. Just look up and cut. So, we we do trim trees when they're
affecting the roofs generally of um private property. So, what we would have to do is uh we'll just let uh Mark and Bill know that the request has come in. Uh it will go on the list where they are. I can't say we're going to be out
in the next, but we can, you know, add it to the list to to for them to get to when they can. Yeah. Because right now we're going through it with four or five squirrels and um the uh the one of the pest control people we called said just tap
on the window and they'll run away. You tap on the window and they just sit there and stare at you. So they're they're not they're so used to people being downtown that you can't do anything to scare them. So we're going to try and do some stuff.
We're going to spray some peppermint and stuff, but uh but the best thing is to get the branches away. If you need some humor, I would Google YouTube squirrel killer of Hadenfield. You will thank me later. It's a very funny video. Squirrel squirrel killer. Squirrel killer of Adamfield. It's a very funny video.
John, they also don't like chili. The flavor of chili. Yeah, they don't like the flavor of chili. And they really don't like the guy in the star of that movie. They don't like your chili. No. No. It's like bird like if you've ever seen bird food will come in with like a chili flavoring on it. It's so that the squirrels won't eat it.
Very good. Any other comments in the room? Seeing none, moving to Zoom. Any comments on anything? Seeing none, I'm going to move to close public comment on Oh. Oh, Shaya, sorry about that.
That was my fault. Sorry, I didn't have get my hand up fast enough. Um Shaina Marshall, 72 Center Street. Commissioner Troy, in the um situation you were talking about on December 8th, was the um the the woman involved that was a a homeless woman who was staying in
Hadenfield. Uh she was the platform of PA, pardon me, on the platform of Padco. Right. And but she's one of these homeless people that you're talking that we've been talking about that are in town
or it was a person that was on the platform at that time. Uh she um when she was threatening to stab my friend in the throat, I didn't think to ask where she lived. Oh no, no, no. The re the reason that I
wouldn't have either. Um, the reason is because I thought it was being brought up as an example of the um problem with having homeless people in town as an example of something that happened. Um, and my my question was if I as a as a
homeowner who pays taxes in Havenfield went to the platform and did the same thing that that women did woman did to you and your friends, of course I wouldn't. Wouldn't I have the same consequences? it's illegal for me to threaten you and to spit on you and to um slash tires. So, why wouldn't that
situation be handled the same way with anyone whether they were homeless or not? Why do we need an or a new ordinance to handle that kind of situation? Uh that's a great question and had DRPA authority and I don't know why that wasn't I don't know why that person
wasn't processed but certainly if you acted like that you should be processed. you should be arrested and processed in my opinion because you you assaulted uh verbally assaulted one person physically assault assaulted a young couple by spitting in their face um and
then upon completion that then caused damage to four vehicles. I forget chief. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess that my I can't I don't know if Chief Cutler's talking or not because there's no microphone. I'm sorry. Yes, it was at least four
vehicles. So, I just want to make sure that whatever whenever something like that happens, whether it's me or Beth or the homeless people or that there's pictures of or whoever, that we all get treated the same way. I don't think we need extra ordinances to make sure that that
kind of stuff doesn't happen. That's scary. And and no matter who's doing it, whether they live here or not or they don't live anywhere. So, yeah. So it's so the irony of asking that question is that um the ordinance does treat everyone the same way because it's not specifically targeting
homeless. It's targeting behavior which is you're not allowed to sleep overnight in a downtown district similar to the ordinance that's been that's been in place 156 I believe in Crows Woods that says you're not allowed to sleep overnight uh in Crows Woods. So yeah. So I would say I agree with you that it
should apply to all residents, right? Absolutely. Okay. Thank you for your client. No, great point. Great point. Thank you. Thanks, Sha. Any other online? All right. Seeing none, now I'm going to
move to close public comment on all other matters. Uh, can I get a second? Second. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Troy in favor. Mayor Sadell in favor. Um as tradition uh do we have
close session tonight? I do not. We have no legal matters to discuss. Hallelujah. So uh the ne the last item is not an agenda item. It is a courtesy that we offer to the press. Uh so uh any press in the time you are not on the
clock obviously uh and I will in I will invite you at this time to ask your questions uh before we adjourn. And do one one quick thing before I should have mentioned before. Uh October October 1st 8 a.m. this time at Jersey Java is uh
coffee with a cop which is international coffee with a cop day or maybe national coffee with a cop day. Uh Chief Cutler will be there uh at 8 a.m. Again, Jersey Java and I plan on being there. Whether I can say the whole time is another story. And it's rotating, right?
Yes, Frank. Yeah. Yeah. So, I have a couple questions. Um, right. We just because just from the sake of think you're not the only two in the room to divide up the the straws. So, I'm actually going to ask Abigail who usually doesn't. But I think because
you get all her questions answered, I'm going to give her an opportunity tonight. Abigail, do you want to start the question period? All right. All right. Well, if you want, we can come back. Uh, okay. Uh, so Frank couple times the phrase top
of reference to how to address this stuff. What does that mean? And how can we kind of communicate in policy? Uh, I mean, I think uh all these situations are are are um or all these instances are situational. Uh I would
say that uh if a person is uh you know I hate to generalize it but if they're um either young or uh you know like they just found themselves recently homeless you know and they don't have a uh they don't have a compass or they're they're
starting to get themselves in trouble because of the situation. I mean, I think that is a situation that is uh best held by getting them in front of, you know, a judge that um you know, I know plenty of judges. My dad was an attorney for 40 years. My little
brother's an attorney. I'm pretty familiar with the the court system. Most judges that I know and I have known over the years and respected over the years would take that and as an opportunity to put that person in a better direction than where they're currently heading.
And engagement. I I have never been in front of a judge myself, but I would say probably give them an option of uh getting help, seeking treatment, you know, connecting them with people who can get them in the right direction or, you know, show them direction that they're going to be going
down, which is, uh, you know, being in the courts. and um you know unfortunately if you're going back out to the street probably open yourself to uh you know worse crimes and worse violence and drug use and you know
everything else out there. So I think in those instances where people need a nudge I think that's a good venue for you know what I would you know consider to be tough love is is getting them in the right direction. So you don't know necessarily for them the person to fix
that problem and that's tough love in some instances. Yes. Okay. Um do you think that the military was a place to get tough love for those sailors that you talked about being under your supervision and is that how you help them out? Uh for people who were going down the
wrong road. Absolutely. What what does that mean? What did that mean in your military experience? So very structured system, right? Yeah. have a lot of ability to to determine what someone does or doesn't do. So, so the the the the military is very structured in that if you want to send
someone to non-judicial punishment, judicial punishment, you know, if you want to get everything from putting them into the brrig to send them to captain's mass to like you name it. Uh if you just want to go buy the book and do it that way, uh you can. And I in my opinion with those young people, you're going to
get like very limited results. But if it is you see those people that are going the wrong direction is you know assigning them someone who's a little more senior who can look out for them making sure that if they are finding themselves in trouble you're finding ways to assign extra duties to them that
is not judicial in nature. It's not going to find itself on their service record but it's just a way of showing them that you know this is your first step in um you know going down the wrong way. So, we want to make sure that you're going, you know, in the right direction. This is like very similar to,
you know, in the civilian world, like getting like, you know, a verbal warning and whatever else. In the military, you can assign people extra duties. You can assign people to show up early in the morning and paint something, swab decks, whatever the case may be, which is, you know, a a a realistic punishment for us
for someone who has a hard time showing up for time at work. you know, you get here early, you do some extra duties, and then that's going to solve the you know, the showing up late uh you know, problems. But, you know, those are all things that you take to make sure these people get themselves back on track and
start being contributing members to the team and contributing members of society and then hopefully long term that carries uh you know, carries through. But they're not one of the things that could be done would be to put them in the care of someone who knows a little bit more to help straighten them out.
How's that different from like getting a social worker involved or getting a different involved that doesn't put them in front of a judge for tough love? I mean Dave summed it up perfectly. The your judicial punishment was your backs stop. Okay. But you just
so so if I if so if I tell someone you need to come in here and have extra duty. I'm gonna have someone assign to you. make sure you're doing it and for five days in a row he doesn't show up on time, you know, he's going to go see the old man next. That's within a structured system where people are assigned to do jobs they've
already signed up to do that's doesn't have the liberty of like a citizen walking around as a pre I mean I would imagine I would classify the burrow of Hadenfield in America is like a pretty structured system. I mean you have laws in place that
say have paint this fence or clean these shrubs up or do anything like because you didn't enlist infield you're a free person passing through a place right okay so I wanted to just find out about that so so so like so you know with this ordinance in place you can say you know we're going to connect you with a
resource that can help you we can connect you with a um you know a um you know a place to stay etc etc etc you know and then if you decide you know if you decide I'm not going to do any of those things instead just want to, you know, continue to hang out here in Hadenfield. I don't think that is a
reasonable backs stop. I think there should be a little more, you know, force in there should you decide not to explore those, you know, those options. Now, state today multiple times that there's already laws and codes conduct and things that people can be found in violation of that have nothing to do
with whether they are housed or unhoused, a resident or an armed resident. So, those laws already exist and chief and police and and the judges and the court system can already take advantage of them if they need to. somebody for their behavior. But what what the ordinance that you guys proposed would do would be only to offer
them a ride to a shelter, provided that a shelter has the room to house them, which is a temporary solution, and it doesn't do anything to address some of the other stuff. Um, if you feel like the military is a place to get that kind of tough level, straightens you out, how do you account for the fact that like such a high percentage of homeless
people are former military people? It's not a high percentage. About 30% of former military people. No. Look that up. But that's the truth. So it's 25 to 30% of homeless people in America have military service
previously. So if they were going to learn likely those people were never under my care because if they were under my care, they probably wouldn't be homeless today. Well, unfortunately, Matt, we just had a uh a a a PTSD U seminar hosted by the American Legion in town,
and the whole concept of that was 22 a day that commit suicide. Uh so, actual mental health, you're hitting it on the head that mental health is an issue for homelessness that's beyond the scope of the Burrow government to to supply a
solution to. Uh so from a statistic standpoint, I'll point to a statistic that was provided by our chief and and it's one that's really stuck with me and that's four individuals accounted for 13 interactions with the police in the
calendar year of 2025. If that tells us that we don't have the ability to and and each one of those interactions was a law on the books, whether that be trespassing or shoplifting or nuisance complaints, that's fine.
Does Does Hadenfield need to leak all of the resources that those 103 encounters have without any progression of consequence? When you get a speeding ticket, if it's 5 miles over, it's a
penalty. If it's 10, if it's 15, if it's 30, you know the consequence of speeding based on the severity of the speeding or run the toll. It will catch up with you. And the more you do it, the more severe the consequence is, which is the
deterrent in the first place. So, you're right. tough love or social work. That's for society to actually provide and we will help with the tool to provide it. The last chance saloon is that ride or
incarceration, right? But I think and and you've heard our chief say that's absolutely what we don't want to do. We'd we'd rather give the ride. We'd rather plug them into a service. We'd rather bring them if the service can't come to them, we'll bring them to the
service. That's what we're offering as a community through this ordinance. 100 something nuisance infractions into something else. And I would imagine that there's other statutes that you can do if someone is is a scoff to that degree where they're causing other problems if
you wanted to jail them or if you wanted to do that. I think the question well and that's why we've tabled it because you're right it doesn't actually address that and that's actually an issue that is addressable tableing it the idea that like there's other ways of doing this but the the thing that I remember hearing at the
introduction of that ordinance was a lot of experts in this field speaking about the perennial complex underlying circumstances that have myriad causes most of them related to economic inequality lack of available perable
housing which is not what a shelter is and and the all the reasons that people don't feel safe in a shelter for and we're giving the runway for all of that to actually manifest and be applicable. Uh and what Commissioner Troy is saying and I I'm saying it too
is in the absence of that being successful, what cannot fail in the Barrow of Hadamfield is public safety. It just can't. That was the other. How do you address the concept of the government owing its residents a feeling
of safety? How do you measure what that feeling is? How do you account for the differences across? I don't measure that. I measure it in calls. If if you don't feel safe as a resident, you can call 911 or 8564293000
and explain your issue. It is then up to public safety to to come out and investigate that issue. If it is unfounded, it's unfounded. I mean, chief, how many times do you show up and it's it's really nothing or it's minor or it's really a matter of just like go
home, you know, and that go home could be either person and and that has nothing to do with homelessness either. I mean, it it it's just the uh So, you're right. My question because I've heard that cited as the basis for the need for targeted enforcement.
But we're not judging feeling. We have to act when someone has that feeling. Well, I agree. How much can you reasonably say to someone we can say we're feeling about anything? And that's really the question. Well, but at the end of the day, the feeling can escalate, right? So a
feeling of unsafess with the absence of any addressing of that whether that be minor is just say you know I'm going to tell them to go walk down the street and you go back in your house and it's all over in the absence of that. So we come and then it happens again. The next
interaction, somebody might take the law into their own hands. That is their problem, right? Because they've done that. But we may have a duty to prevent that situation from happening in the first place. And that comes to what
Mayor Tarditti said about the human relations commission to educate people on how to feel safer because that's something we can address in human relations is to say this it you're it's not a scary thing. These are alternatives that you can do. People are
afraid period. Right? And you can educate yourself out of fear. That's something the human relations commission can do. But don't be don't forget there is real fear that it's real fear because it's fear for you and that's
for the person. Uh yes. So we're talking about the same thing but on both sides of the same well and that's what Commissioner Troy said. This isn't about homelessness. This is about behavior saying it's about behavior for the res whatever the sort of damage this is.
And that's where public safety has to judge that. And I I trust them as the public safety officials. That's what the training they go through to actually make that assessment. I can't Can I just ask the last question? I appreciate your answers to all of you. Um what is the I I've read or heard or
heard all to some process with the council of churches and a social worker. Is the burrow acting in any specific way to coordinate that or is these these just preliminary discussions? Is that a question for the council? Well, it's probably a question for the council. I could say that the
introductionist ordinance uh broke a lot of scar tissue uh you know that that got some or rust or whatever you want to talk it got some things in motion. Uh there they did have a social worker that that that didn't just address homelessness. It addressed somebody came
in to a priest or or a pastor or a rabbi or an almond and said I have a problem and they didn't they they weren't equipped to handle that. So they had a social worker to come in and say, you know, this is what domestic abuse here are the resources that you have for if
if that's the issue. If it's elder care and you don't know what to do with your parent that has dementia, like there's a million things that that that the council churches would leverage that social worker. We're asking and providing assistance in with a grant to
help them start that up because this isn't our responsibility. I I this is my opinion. It's society's responsibility and we're going to help get that process started. We've offered space. That space has then been offered by I think Christ
the King Church to provide space. So the issue was a startup, a structure and space. And then what would their mission be? And their mission is their mission because it'll be a resource of the council of churches. We're asking for metrics when we have to employ that
social worker. And part of the social contract of Hadenfield is that social worker could be at the disposal of the police to direct a person to that resource just as if they had walked into the church or they had stopped somebody on the street and said, "I need help." We now we can and that's part of the uh
education uh process that we would have too and say if you truly want to help, don't buy the fish, teach them to fish, bring them to the social worker to get the help they need. Buying them a sandwich helps them for 12 hours. Getting them into in front of someone
who is much more trained to help them fish is is really the the Christian goal here for there was a financial commitment. We had talked about that before. There is an opioid grant that we have. Shannon, could you describe that?
Yes, we we are in discussions with them. They're looking to set up a 5013C um corporation to handle this and we have agreed to help sponsor their first year with some funding we've received from the opioids. How much?
It has not been decided yet. How much do you have in fund? Uh we have about $79,000 right now. Okay. So less than that. Yeah, less than less than that. Sure. We have a municipal alliance as well. So they use some of that opioid
for education of students with opioid addiction uh problems and as you saw opioid addiction month uh is right now. So um you know it's it's it's it's not for narcane it's for it's for education trying to hire more because so many of the questions that they got back were
about housing and they couldn't really answer them all at the library. So it's a persistent issue. I'm sure it is. So just to clarify um that the social worker situation that's coming from the council of churches and then you would
just be working with them. It wouldn't be a burden. I believe you answer this. No, it would not be a bird decision. Um and then Mr. Tardy had mentioned the past social worker. Can you speak to what happened to that role? No. No. You'd have to ask the council of
churches. It wasn't our resource. brought up that image of someone with curse word. Is that illegal to do anything that I was just curious? Is it illegal anywhere? It's first first amendment right
offensive offensive speech is still protected speech. So one of my favorite lines from the American president, you know, freedom of speech isn't the right to say something. It's to you have to actually listen to something that you've fought against your entire life because they have the
equal right to say it. Yes, sir. Oh, he's going to get special dispensation. Central Family Service, Social Service Agency uh provides support to the police with some of the issues they have,
social issues they have with the uh some of their residents and it's been very helpful and that's something we may want to look at. Um but the Center for Family Services serves all of Camden County. In fact, South Jersey, wonderful organization and they be able maybe
you'll be able to help us just as I I'm familiar with Camden uh the volunteers of America formed the home for the brave for homeless veterans encampment and our in fact Barbara and I helped contribute to that and then um
the American Legion Post raised this money for uh the Veterans Haven which is down in I think in the Hampton area or something. Am I correct S? violent or violent. They raised money to provide again for uh homeless, if you will,
veterans that need housing that are not capable providing for themselves. So it's been a it's it's not unusual uh that organizations have stepped forward to to assist not leaving it entirely up to government because certainly we are
brothers and sisters keepers and we should be as interested like the council churches is should be as interested in doing something as conven Thank you. No, thanks J. Any other questions from the retrospect?
All right, Abigail, one last shot. All right, I'm going to make a motion to adjurnn. Can I get a second? Second. Nicole in favor. Commissioner Troy in favor. Mayor in favor.
Thank you.