Good evening everyone. This is the work session of July 14th in accordance with the open public's meeting act. Notice this meeting has been sent to the retrospect and posted on the bolton board in the burrow hall. The first item on the agenda is the public comment period. Anyone who wishes to speak with the commissioners now is the time. We'll
do the room first. Please stand so that we can put the mic closer to you and provide your comments. No one in the room wants to speak. Is there anyone on Zoom that would like to speak with the commissioners? Okay, then moving on. The next item on
the the agenda is the resolution approving uh appointments to the fire department. We have four members that have qualified and are ready to begin active membership. Uh the fire company has provided their blessing and so the resolution is solely just to approve the
appointments. Do I have I'll make a motion to approve the appointments for the fire. I'll second. Thank you. Voting on that motion. Commissioner Troy in favor. Commissioner Cole.
Hi. And uh Commissioner Sidel. Okay. All right. The next one is an authorization to approve appointments for the library board of trustee. We have one member be appoint being
appointed to fill in an expired term. Like to make a motion. I'll second. Voting on that motion. Commissioner Troy in favor. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Sidell in favor.
Okay. Thank you. Um now we have the presentation of the telecommunication plan that has been provided to us prepared for to for us by cityscape. Um Susan is joining us from Florida I believe. Susan, aren't you?
I'm in North Carolina but I'm here. North Carolina. Sorry. All right. Um, okay. Susan, you have been working on this for quite some time and we're trying to wrap this up. So, would you please provide a general overview of the
actual telecommunication or the wireless communication plan and then um when we have completed with that, the commissioners will go on and discuss the ordinance. Okay. And do I have permission to share my screen? Yes.
Okay. There we go. I have prepared a a presentation to walk us through where we started and where we are now. So just to recap, Cityscape works just for local governments and we have been working with the bureau to develop a wireless
communication plan for wireless communications that is specific to network planning for your cell phones. So this is not wired uh infrastructure for internet to your home. It is the wireless that you see on
these towers, the antenna and they could be either on a macro cell or a small wireless facility. We I just have a few images of standard non-concealed type macro cells
and some examples of what a concealed facility would look like with all the equipment camouflaged. So you don't see all of the antennas and coax cables. When a facility is not on a tower and it
goes on an existing building or a water tank rooftop, that's conceal considered a base station. And this is an example of some concealed base stations. The antenna here is uh wrapped to match the brick.
This is a faux uh feature in this religious institution. The infrastructure is behind these faux um louvers and at the extension of this rooftop they're behind these uh louvers.
Small wireless facilities are typically 50 ft or less in height and they can be concealed and self-contained in the pole. They can be nonconcealed and equipment can be mounted on the pole or on the ground. And what we're seeing
is that if the sites are not colllocated, meaning providers do not share the same facility, we're seeing multiple facilities being built next to each other, one for each provider. And there are four providers in your
geographic area. We started our analysis with an inventory of your existing wireless sites. You have three within the Hadenfield boundary and then the other sites that are
affecting the boundary are outside in a onemile perimeter. Your three sites include what we call H01. It's a rooftop on a residential multi-story building. It is nonconcealed. It is a one tenant
provider location. You have a water tank that's to be decommissioned in the near future with antenna at the top and there's two providers there and that's what we call HO2
and you have a tower and railroad right ofway that is HO3 and that infrastructure is specific to the railroad. There are no commercial wireless providers on that site. We did provide you as part of our
analysis an inventory catalog that gives you more information about each site with a map and information that we could ascertain from our site visits. Once we had these sites identified, we
started with our coverage maps and we used a variation of colors from yellow to no colors to indicate the signal strength, anticipated signal strength coming from the wireless infrastructure.
Yellow is inbuilding. Green is a strong enough signal to have uh coverage while you're in a vehicle, but not necessarily indoors. Blue is primarily outdoor coverage. And then areas where there's
no coloration, those are your biggest gap areas. What we found in the burrow is that from these two sites, if every provider was
on each site, this would be your general coverage plan. You can see that most of the bureau has limited outdoor and very little inbuilding coverage. And you have
to though realize that only one provider is here and this site is being decommissioned. And so your coverage for the bureau is going to be even further diminished than what this site map shows.
Our next task was to say, okay, if there's only one provider and you can only get one provider on that rooftop and the water tank is going away, then what does your coverage really look like? So, this map
on the left is showing you what we think your coverage is without any sites because we didn't feel like we could really count any of them. And building from that, what would it take to bring
coverage to the burrow? And we estimated that by adding 13 macro cells at about 100 ft in height and they were modeled at 80 ft that you would get almost complete inbuilding coverage throughout
the burrow. We looked at another scenario that was not including any macro cells, only the small wireless facilities. And we came up with approximately 47 locations in
the rights of way throughout the bureau for um getting to achieve almost a very similar coverage. And the reason there are so many more small wireless facilities is that the coverage pattern from a small wireless facility is only
about 400 to 600 feet in radius. Whereas the macro cell can go a mile or two depending on uh clutter. Clutter being tree canopy, building rooftops and variation in terrain.
We then also looked at a hybrid solution whereby adding seven macro cells on more or less public or commercial property and then filling in with small wireless facilities where there was just really residential
um dwelling units. Uh what would that look like? And we came up with seven macro cells and 18 small wireless facilities. We then took all this information and put it into a poll and we asked the
community um to give feedback and we found that 437 participated in the poll. The poll ran from June 5th to June 30th of 2023. And the information that came back was very helpful because then we were able
to take this information and put it into a code that would address the gap areas and how they would build out in the future. So when given the three scenarios of a macro, a small or a hybrid model and when asked by the
participants which one they would prefer, you had uh 47% the majority indicated that they would support the hybrid model as their preferred uh deployment pattern.
And then you had fewer supporting the small and the macro cell deployment pattern. When asked what was most important to them, the number one answer was good connectivity and minimal visual impact.
We then wanted I mean we asked a lot of questions but I'm focusing on these um so you can see how we incorporated all of this into your draft code. When asked which structure they preferred, it was base stations to towers over towers.
And when asked if they preferred the concealed to nonconcealed, it was overwhelming pre preference for the concealed. So as we prepare for your code, which you don't really have a code now for
wireless. So there are things that we had to consider that are federal regulations. that really guide what you can and can't do in your code. And I'm going to go through some of these rather quickly. The Telecom Act in 96 uh indicates that
you cannot prohibit or your code cannot have the effect of prohibiting the deployment of wireless infrastructure. So you must allow them in the community. You can uh put in land standards that they have
to follow, but you have to allow them and you cannot prohibit them um over concerns of radio frequency emissions being harmful to human health. You also have to make sure that you are
following your review process and approving or denying sites within a reasonable amount of time. and you may promote public's land use, but you may not require it.
As the as time went on, the FCC issued report and orders that identified substantial change. So that if you have an existing facility, if they do not
exceed the definition of substantial change, then you must allow them to colllocate on that existing facility. And so your new code does have a definition of substantial change. If they exceed that, then you can deny the
request, but you cannot turn it down if it does not exceed that. They also provided clarifications on shot clock, which determines how long you have to review an application. Um basically if so if a sub a
substantial change is if you exceed the increase the height of an existing tower or base station by 10% or 10 ft whichever is greater in the right of way or if it's a tower outside of the right of way. If it increases by 10% or 20
feet whichever is greater then that exceeds the definition of substantial change. If the width exceeds by 20 feet or six feet in the ride ofway, that is too much. So, you would be able to review that application more thoroughly.
Um, if you if they're excavating more than 30 ft outside the footprint of the site. If you have a concealed site and the new collocation defeats the concealment, then you can deny the request. or if the installation has a
number of cabinets and shelters that exceeds the typical number that would go in, then you can consider it a um greater than a substantial change. But if all of these are met and they're below those thresholds, you have to
allow them. The um in 2018, the second report in order removed small wireless facilities from historic preservation and environmental review processes at the federal level. If you have them locally
or at the state level, you can still require them, but at the federal level, they are now exempt. And then also in the report and order in 2018, you they imposed reasonable fees and
they reaffirmed that local government has the right to regulate the aesthetics and public and public safety concerns. And they codified the shot clocks. And so everything in your code that's been put in there has primarily been to
accomplish two things. One was to make it consistent with the definitions and the timelines for the review processes with the code of federal regulation. So when your code starts out you have significant list of definitions and then
towards the back of your code you have significant standards for the application approval process and then in between that are your development standards and the you start with a after
definitions you start with a location preference sighting preference and this was all put together based on the responses from the public that participated in the survey. So when an
applicant comes in to look for a new site, the first thing you want them to do is colllocate on an eligible support structure. And then if there's not an eligible support structure for them to colllocate
upon, then the next preferred is a new concealed collocation on a new base station. That would be a, for example, a new rooftop facility, but it would need to be concealed unlike the one that you
have now, which is not concealed. The third preference would be for a concealed small cell facility outside of the right ofway on properties zoned as public. And then the fourth would be a
concealed macro cell on property zoned as public. Your fifth priority would be a small wireless facility in the ride ofway or utility easement first on an existing utility pole or on a concealed
replacement pole and then the last would be a non-concealed replacement pole followed by further down the line a new concealed small wireless facility on any other property and then a new concealed macro cell on any other property.
property. And you'll see that the only non-concealed facilities that would be permitted in the future would be one either on an existing utility pole for a small facility, small cell site, or a
non-concealed replacement utility pole. All other facilities would need to be concealed. I I take that back. If you had a collocation on an eligible support structure, you would have one of those left after the removal of the water tank, that's the rooftop at HO1. If they
were to put another facility up on HO1, that would not have to be concealed because it's not concealed now and you cannot require them to be concealed in the future. So outside of that, all of the existing um or proposed new facilities
other than what I just mentioned would need to be concealed. So then the rest of the code that follows section 135.33 which is the location standards goes on to provide the development standards
that apply to each of these types of facilities with regards to things like landscaping and signage and abandonment and discontinued use are of compliance statements
um and whatnot. And as I recall, Sharon, all applications have to come before the commission to be approved. Isn't that right? Before the planning board. Before the planning board. Yes. They all have to go before the planning board. And so since that was already a
requirement, that's not stated in there because it's understood that that's the process. But then the timeline for approval is listed in the code and it's consistent with the code of federal regulation which generally for new
facility brand new macro cell is 150 days minus any tolling and small wireless facilities could be um need to be approved generally generally within 30 days. Um,
and I'm happy to answer any other questions, but I that's an overview and a very quick snapshot of where we started and where we've come and how we got there. Thank you, Susan. Commissioners, do you
have any questions on the wireless communication plan that she just went through? Yes. Hi. Thank you, by the way, for for the uh presentation. the 200 or so folks that you surveyed, can you talk a little bit where how you recruited them and
when that survey was sent out? Okay. The survey total of participants was actually 437 and the burrow, let's see, you had it posted on your website and you used your
community information forum to uh let people know that it was available for them to participate. And Sharon, I would defer to you on how you actually all did that. Yeah, in the app and we also had
uh two open uh discussions here and I think Zoom meetings as well, right? Correct. We had several meetings on it. We also had posters downtown with the QR code with access to the survey. Um we had it out on the app. We had it out on
social media. Um while it doesn't sound like a large number of participants, we were actually thrilled we got that many. Yeah. No, I believe you. Um, yeah. And I believe it was out I think you stated there. You stayed a month, but I believe it actually went longer. Went went about six weeks.
Was this last year or the year? It was in 2023. 2023. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Yeah. Hi, Susan. Uh, from excavation, I I would assume that's for power.
It could be for it could be for power or it could also be to get fiber to the site. We have seen uh fiber have to come in from perhaps the roadway or an easement and when they have to esavate to get to that that has put them into
the um exceeding the definition range and we've required them to uh follow a different review pattern. Okay. And then in the map of the hybrid solution of um seven macro and 18 small
wireless sites um seeing as it were primarily a residential um community where do they usually go in the residential uh areas in the right of way? Okay. and concealed as telephone poles
or lamp posts or however you saw. That's right. Yes. And we've also seen them with non lit luminires. So, we've seen them go in to look like a lamp post, but then they don't actually turn
the light on at night because residents didn't want any additional light. And then we've seen them go into areas where they did want the light. And so uh the light functions and their negotiation as a company is directly with the electric company for
power. It is and then they need to also have an agreement with you if you maintain the right of way. They would need to have an agreement with you on uh a right-of-way agreement where you would be able to get an annual it's a meager but you would be
able to get uh some annual rent from them for use of your right of way. Sure. All right. Thank you. I think we can all safely say that cell service stinks at Henfield. So, um any any movement we can make in this regard,
it stinks. It stunk in 2023 with the map and it will only get worse uh with Yes, it will only get worse. So, this is beyond a convenience factor. This is really a necessity to to improve our
self-s service. I you know I'm not saying time is of the essence but time is a ticking. Well to explain process we went through to figure out what the problem was and how to solve it and that's what this
plan is. The ordinance puts in place implementation processes. Um then where we were headed with the next steps would be we would we were actually looking because most people wanted it in on public property. We were looking to then
create a bid to go out for some solution most you know maybe the small sites the larger number of small sites or some combination of both on public property um and put it out to bid and see what we receive. There's carriers out there now
that um are creating small cell sites that everybody can fit on. Um and they're not as as um visible and as obnoxious as the tall old towers.
So um but that was where we believed our next steps were headed. And I think we discussed this last time, but the intent was to basically use this. I'm not sure if we're called the master plan. I think I think we switched it to plan. The plan as the source document instead
of having to write an RFP that details everything. It basically references this document which includes the feedback from all the residents and stuff like that. So it it does give providers some flexibility with us with ideas. uh
any of this if we want to put one huge you know lattice work uh you know lattice type um you know tower in the middle of town it probably wouldn't go over real well but if someone else has a you know a hybrid type model or something like that then we can say well this is one that we prefer over this one
this other one over here. Sure. And we're considering the rightway as public space. Correct. Right. Okay. So, they're not going to be creating any agreements with private institutions other than perhaps a building uh for a macro site
or the board of education or that's what I mean like the board of education that they're the only buildings I was considering. Uh yes, and I know Susan has been in conversation with the board of ed. Yes. I was just going to say that we did look at a number of large uh burrow
properties, but they are all on the Rossi and so we had to remove those from consideration. But we did go and talk with the board of education. I've actually spoken with presented to them twice and spoken with
them a number of times since then. they are interested in looking at putting facilities on schoolboard properties and uh they're and they they are continuing to discuss that at the board level.
I I think I spoke with Michael or email emailed with Michael a week or two ago and I think uh perhaps this summer they might have some resolution. But I also know that Crown Castle is avidly awaiting the approval of your
code because they do want to come in and deploy some small wireless facilities in this area and in the adjoining communities to Hadenboro Hadenfield. and they
also are looking at perhaps a macro cell to displace the water tank. So you do have a number of providers and infrastructure service providers, not just the commercial providers, but the
infrastructure providers um waiting to see when the code goes into effect so that they can come and talk with you about what they want to do. Sure. And and the macro cell would be a permanent macro cell to replace the water tower or a temporary macro cell
for it would be it would be a right. It'd be a permanent facility but not at the water tank site. It would have to be it would be somewhere else. Okay. Okay. Um before the election we had put this on
the agenda to try and bring it to some close. Um we did have the ordinance on for introduction. It did not go further. We waited till after the election to bring it back up. Um in that time some of the residents had an opportunity to go through it and provide comment and
suggestions. We went through that with Susan. Um most of them we were able to resolve. There were a few items that I need your input on before we can finalize this if you're ready to move forward with it at the end of the month.
Uh I pointed those items out. The first one was and I know when we talked about this before, Sally, you were going to come up with some kind of language for it. Um the wording currently in the ordinance on page 12 at the very top says install small cell wireless
facilities less than 165 ft apart demonstrated to the burough satisfaction why such placement is necessary and we talked about the fact that there is some that leads to some ambiguity with that that particular wording and sale indicated that he had wording through
the courts they use to try and define that better um to be able to explain that. Correct. Yeah. I mean just you know the B satisfaction is just so uh broad almost unc incapable of a definition. I mean so we do have some language that we
could could insert in there that would be more tied to the engineers more standards something you know not as as wide open as this. Um the next thing is on page 13 and then
again on page 15 I believe it's where you're providing notification whether it's notification of the air balloon test or it's notification of the parcel. Typically uh planning applications
require notice for 200 ft. Um, with the sub with this subject matter, it's been requested that we increase that up to 500 ft. Um, that's it's your call at a minimum is 200 feet based on planning board. If you
want to extend it or increase it rather, that's up to you. Um I would the one comment I would say is that if we put something out and it's going to be a large number of small cell
sites throughout the burrow that's basically noticing everybody in town. So um you know it's it our when we would go out to bid that would be basically notify people to begin with but we need to come up do we
want to stick to the 200 ft that is what most planning board notifications are or do we want to increase to something because of the sensitive nature that it is when people get a little more upset with something like this coming in. So I'll go first. Uh so the balloon test
was more important to me that it actually occurred because the old language said that ah if it was bad weather we sorry you know we we missed the opportunity. So that language is removed. Yep. Uh so the balloon test will occur uh on the notice date or there will be
rescheduled. That to me was more important than increasing the distance. Uh because even if we increased the distance that was the give. The give was you got to do the balloon test. And the balloon test is people can go out and say, "Oh, wow. That's hot or it's not
hot, you know, and that's that was more important to me than the distance. I guess I'm okay with the 200 just because it is the primary board. And uh if you a higher number here, where do you draw the higher numbers?" So I think
as it applies, if you're talking about uh the hybrid model didn't have a lot of notification. I think we can overcome similar what we did with the survey and overcome uh community involvement by just getting
the word out the same methods in the past. I don't see a reason to go beyond 200. Okay. And you're comfortable with the balloon being the same. The notification for the balloon test is keeping it the
same 200 feet that we have for notification of the application. That's correct. Yes. It's the same people they notified for both tests. And that and that notification is regardless if it's a small cell or macro.
Okay. on page 16. Um there were some there was some question and I didn't put this in the notification but there were some questions. Um Susan originally had clock
date for the for the calculation the clock date calculation shall start restart to for this presentation she switched to shot clock. there was just some discussion as to whether or not that terminology was appropriate or not, but
it it's one or the other. It's um you know it's the time that they are keeping track of things. Um so that was changed the shot clock throughout. The bigger issue is that when you're reviewing this and you find that there's a problem in
the submitt, the wireless communication facility shall be deemed complete on resubmission. if the if the resubmitted materials cure the original deficiencies indicated by the burrow. That's what we um have in there to indicate they're but
the question that came up was if the new materials which fix the deficiency now create a problem with something else that's been submitted. Give me an example. I cannot.
Okay. Um I'm just explaining what was brought up. So the you know and basically what the issue is you know say for example um oh I I can't even think of one at the moment but I can give you an example because this
has come up before and we require them to fix it. So, um, we've required them to address things on their site plan and then they go, we've seen that they've addressed it correctly on the site plan, but they've used the wrong site
plan-based document. And so, the Latin long might be wrong or the actual um, vicinity map would be wrong. And we have required them to go in and change it and make it correct. So you can
re you do need to re-review whenever they resubmit to make sure that one they've addressed your comments correctly and make sure that nothing else has come up based on their change. And so you do have 10 days to review that. You can toll if you find that
there is something wrong that needs to be addressed. Well, and our planning board only meets once a month. So, the 30-day requirement for the small wireless sites, this is something that So, first off, before we hit go to that, okay,
right now, what she's talking about is when an application comes into Suzanne down in the construction office and it's being reviewed to determine whether the project the application is even complete. This is before we even start the clock
ticking. It has to be deemed complete before you start the clock ticking. All right, that makes sense process. So the 30-day, you are correct. The 30 days is shorter than our typical time frame for which is what 45
deeming something complete in municipal land use law is when it's deemed complete after so many days, if not acted upon, then the requested approvals are granted. So right, it's it's it's more than a thrart. There's consequences with something being deemed complete.
the clock starts to run. So it is critical. Yeah. Um but to your point, it's once the application has been deemed complete, which you know is going to improve notifications and things like that. So that 30 days of a planning board act you
know event will happen within that 30 days. Okay. And are deemed complete measures against that calendar or does it just measure against the application itself? No, you have the you have time. There's
no set time to deem it complete necessarily. Correct, Susan? Oops. It depends on the uh application if it is if it's an eligible small cell. If you have a small sale application and they turn it in on the
2nd of the month, um our planning board because of the ways dates called, you know, won't be until the seventh of the month. How many days do we have to deem it complete? Because the 30 days is after it's deemed complete, isn't it?
Well, you have 10 days to review it. And then you have to provide them commentary in writing whether or not they've submitted everything. And so what I suggest doing is you the language that
you use is that these items are missing and before we continue continue to do our review, you have to address these items. And a lot of them are the develop typically they're the development standards that are in your code. You could deem it incomplete at that point.
You could actually deny it at that point and have them come back and cure it. But we usually tell them that, you know, it they it's incomplete because well, if they haven't submitted all the forms, we tell them you can't accept it
until we've received payment. We've got our rightway agreement in place. Now, if they have all that in place and they submit the application and they haven't addressed the development standards, then you you deem it incomplete. the shot clock stops and then they have to
cure those deficiencies. When they resubmit the clock starts again and then um it goes through until you deem it incomplete or if it's complete then you
take it to the planning board for approval and collocations using an existing structure. you have 60 days to um do that entire process and you have 90 days if it's a new pole or a
replacement pole. So, I think you'll be okay with your timeline, but if you feel like you're not going to meet those timelines for whatever reason, we recommend in the industry has
always in my as much as I can remember, they've always agreed to toll longer and they do it in writing if you need more time. Okay. And we've done that same with
applications, especially when we're dealing with something that has to go through HPC because Yeah. You ask the applicant to agree to toll it and they agree, right? Because it takes longer obviously. An existing process. Yes. Yeah.
Okay. The next one um is on page 17 and it's under dispute resolution. Um, currently it says the court of competent jurisdiction location located in Handling County, New Jersey shall have explicit jurisdiction to resolve
all disputes arising under this section applying the laws of the state of New Jersey pending resolution of a dispute concerning rates for collo colllocation of small wireless facilities on utility poles within the rightway. The burrow shall allow the collocation party to
colllocate on utility pole at annual rates at set forth in the burrow fee schedule. The comment from the residents was that you should not allow them to colllocate until the dispute's been resolved
because that way you you still have um a large negotiation point rather than having them on it basing it on fees that you've established. But in the meantime during a dispute there wouldn't be coverage in that area from that carrier.
There wouldn't be coverage and you wouldn't be bringing in fees. Correct. Right. So this is more of a dispute of an inevitability, not a dispute of location appropriateness. It's uh it's a dispute over rates. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's a dispute
over money, not over placement. So that can always be cured. somewhere along the way in the courts of Camden County. Yeah. I mean, what you could do is you could put a really high rate in the burough fee so that if dispute comes up,
realistically, they're going to be paying a much higher rate than they want to. Um, it's kind of putting something in place to to make it unattractive. Yeah. People not want to dispute where you're going with this.
I mean that's one way to to address that so that hopefully you don't have disputes but you're correct this is over the fees not sure location. So what's the time period of a typical uh agreement? Well, I think
the ones we've been for I'm sorry, Susan, but but have been for like start period of either five or 10 years with with annual renewals of five years there after every five years for like another 20 25 years, I think. All right. So, it's not like a hey,
we'll fix this in the next agreement because the next agreement is not coming down the pike. Right. Okay. Susan, is that Do you come across something different? No, that's about right. So, right. I'd rather set a higher rate
for dispute. Well, there there is a um the Federal Communication Commission has indicated that an acceptable rate would an acceptable rate would be $270 per
small wireless facility per year. And we have I think we have one community who has gone a little higher than that, but most communities stick to that $270 per small wireless facility
per year. And uh so I just I just want to put that out there to you as you think about what your rates might be. And that's because carrier, correct?
Uh that's per pole. So if you has multiple carriers on it, we only receive the fee for as if we were one. That is my understanding. Yes. And they their their argument in their report and order
was that fees that were much more than that could be considered a barrier to entry because the industry would be paying uh in their opinion too much for the use of that real estate.
I don't agree but that's what they came up with is per small wireless facility and it doesn't indicate they don't clarify whether that is a single tenant pole or a two tenant or three tenant pole it's
per facility help me understand the dispute in this case is between which parties Susan, in this section of the code, this is dealing with the dispute between the burrow and the correct it's in the right way. It's the burrow and the applicant. So, let's
say tower company ABC comes in and you have a dispute about that fee, then that disputees between you and that particular tower company. Or it could be provider A, B, and C, and it would be with that provider. is whoever the
applicant is for that facility. Well, regardless, it's it's a money debate, not a service debate. Correct. Are we okay leaving it the way it is? I thought you guys were both saying to do it higher rates. Well, no. That's we're that you would
leave this language the way it is and then when you create because we would have to amend the borrow fee schedule. I see. Okay. Okay. That we could address it that way. Yeah, I'm I'm comfortable with that. Are you okay with that? Yeah.
All right. And then the last one, there was a number of other areas where they questioned the time frame that was all based on um federal law. So those times are all required times. And then the last one is in page 19
where even though we failed to act, they still have to notify us that they are accepting and moving forward. Is that is that date? Is that the one that you were going to point out? No, it was it was under
it was under 13539 in the fact that Oh, I'm sorry. It's on page 20, not page 19. It's on page 20. Um, it's on page 20 135.4B and C. We only list under property zone
public. We only reference burrowowned and board of education sites. Um because that's really the only ones we have zoning regulations over. So you're worried. So this isn't taken. In fact, so there's Paco, correct?
There's county there. I can't think of any county um inside our burough limits there. There's county, but they're not. And then the post office. Well, and you know, again, it's a state highway also.
Oh, sure. But you know, and Paco, we cannot regulate. They have their own regulations as a bystate. Um, so we specifically put in here as the public zones that they were um burrow of Hatenfield and and Board of Education
properties. So that's that's clarifying that I would rather be specific than have to get in the middle of a fight between the county and the carrier or back and carrier. Yeah, that's for sure. Well, a Paco I mean they've already they already have they, you know, on their on
Susan's map you'll see that there's one down in Gross Woods that is solely for their use, right? My understanding is that there isn't anything else on there other than their trains. So um but that was what um we had come down
to that wasn't resolved from the comments from the residents just walk through votes. It doesn't seem like we're making any changes other than the language of the burough satisfaction. Do any of you have any further questions
having read the ordinance? None from me. Yes. No, I'm good too. You good too? Great. Are you are we done with Susan? Yes. Nice, Susan. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for having me this evening and
I look forward to hearing uh the timeline for the next steps. I'll reach out to you tomorrow, Susan. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye bye. Thanks. Okay. The next item on the agenda is to talk
about our communication plan. Um, so Tier sent, you have it in your packet and Joanna sent it out today to you. Um, and then Frank did some additions to it. A tier had sent out some comments and some ideas. Joanna drafted a simple um,
plan from that and then as I said, Frank made some other recommendations and changes to it which are all in the same area but have multiple copies of it. Same Is that in the things to talk about section?
Oh, this page. The single page. Three pages. Oh, I got the statement one is Yeah, it's destructive. Okay.
So, the majority of the changes, not sure you had a chance to review what Joanna drafted and sent out to you this afternoon, but it's just listing what she believes the guiding principles are. You know, audience- centered, transparent, forthcoming, narrative
driven, multi- channelannel outreach, and predictable and consistent, and two-way engagement. Um the objectives increase public awareness of burough activities, build trust and transparency, foster engagement, feedback, manage expectations around challenges and decisions, and promote active community involvement. She then
goes on to explain the different types of groups, what their needs or concerns are, and how they would be addressing those and on through which items. Um Frank just added social media under the nonprofits organizations. When you switch over to communication
channels, the Burrow app, uh, and Frank has basically merged the two. What it looks like. Uh, yeah. Yeah. That everything under the one should be under the same. Not that he merged them, but they should be
consistent. Anything we send out on the app, we should be putting on or anything that's going out on social media going out on the app. There is some consideration with that. I mean, you're we're gonna put some like feel-good things stuff out on social media that aren't necessarily approp.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm fine. Yeah. So, uh I'm fine with the like the delineation there, but things like urgent alerts and service disruptions and stuff like that. I think it's like that should be out and social media, right? With I think you put here, maybe not,
but um also packaging the commissioners on there in case you want to share through our social media. So, Yeah. And then Joanna and I were talking about because she just had this down as as emergencies and stuff. We understand that. Um I know she did expand it. So
then you know event reminders, meeting reminders, if there's we'll talk to you about the newsletter later, but you know if there's anything else that we're putting out, any any information we're putting out that we feel is important, you know, that people should wear. we have a new survey coming out or
something like that that goes on the app on social media things like that. Um, if it's just we did, for example, the July 4th, you know, event, she put out on social media, you know, thank yous to different people or a followup from it showing, you know, look at at the
wonderful day we all had, things like that. That's more of an appropriate, you know, Instagram, Facebook, those kinds of things, rather than posting fat to um the app, right? Because one of the things you also don't want to do is use the app floor so much that people are no longer
paying attention to. Yeah. And I like it. Urgent update service interruptions, emergency alerts. Right. You do want like media stuff. Oh, sure. No. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Agreed. But what you're saying right now is that those two are actually two separate correct
things. So it's worth separating them and just being I don't disagree. I just making it explicit that those serve a different means. Yes. For purpose, whatever. And it's and and I agree with anything on the app goes on the web, but not necessarily vice versa, right?
Yes. Okay. Uh view and approval process. Frank changed all this. I mean, um I'm gonna let you explain. Yeah. So, like it had I think it just needs to get a little
bit more covered in my opinion. So like urgent alerts and the Pharaoh app just in the short time that kind of observed it like there's been some times where we're waiting for either Chief or Joan or Joan is off on a Friday. It's kind of
like there's a delay in getting some information out. Ideally what I would like is just uh I mean a lot of what we deal with is like a you know a motor vehicle a vehicle accident or arrest or I'm talking from a public safety stance. We should have
boilerplate language for the you know eight kind of incidents you as it were that it's scripted and it everything is just kind of plugandplay and all we're doing putting a name in there location and you know if chief is off and Joanna
you have been busy on a Friday or something like that the lieutenant in charge that day or be on duty you know if there's like like an admin password they can get to access it some training just so they can kind of put that in there and it gets released quickly and it doesn't have to get
approved by any. That's what I would But you're saying the approval will come at the boilerplate level, not at the announcement level. Correct. Yeah. So, we'll approve the boilerplate language. Yeah. It should be okay. Car accident, call stolen car. Yep. Yeah. Make sure make sure the the
language is consistent. Like I said, you know, that one person is saying everyone's saying motor vehicle accident. Not one person is going rogue and saying car accident. Like you want to be this kind of artistic, you know. And what kind of crimes do we actually publicize? Like
all crimes, some crimes. I'm fine with arrests. And you know, motor vehicle accidents, if it's impacting traffic, I think would be a good one. If it's just a fender bender at the end of the street, I don't think
that's worthy. um or if it rises to the um you know maybe if there's like emergency evacuation or something like that that that would kind of be elevated but yeah I think that level then I think um well I think fires are a little bit
different but yeah anything where you have to avoid the area right and what's the motivation behind the arrest like publicizing that just visibility and the information is already out there
and if other people are populating it, it's more than likely wrong. And we're not controlling the narrative of real information. We're playing catchup to like, you know, information that may or may may or may not be and and I'm fine with I'm fine with
arrests. Uh because right, as you said, there's a lot of people that just listen to the you know you go on the web you can listen to our calls right so and they could get them wrong u and it also just shows that there is police activity
happening so I'll use a couple different examples uh of of recent ones because we have been trying to do some of this in practice and testing some of them so the arrest of the juvenile I don't even know if they were juvenile oh no they were an adult right that that went yeah 18 that that went into Lworth
I had no problem with saying that was because one it shows that we have the ability to monitor Lworth to and then it was tested again a couple nights later right uh so and that was also put out you know to just show it that shows that
we have a capacity to watch public property uh so I was fine with that the other one is the emergency weather things that we've been putting out there's never an assumption you know, overshare those types of things to say
get indoors or uh spending a lot of time for work in the Midwest in my 20s. I got very very in tune with lots of different symbols on different buildings for different types of weather events and it was everywhere when when something was coming and it was very comforting to
know that. So, I'm good with both of those. Um responding to chatter though. Yeah. No, I I would leave it up to the discretion of the public official, the safety officials to say when they want to bring
attention to something. Uh I don't know if it needs to all three of us to approve that though because it would slow down if an example of what happened a few weeks ago. There was a bike tour that went
through town. It went through town. Yeah. You know, it didn't stop in town. They weren't doing donuts and things highway. It went through town. A lot of people talked about it. That wasn't something we really would message. But if it was a recurring recurring occurrence, maybe. Yeah. And if it was actually an
impactful stop traffic, there were multiple calls that came in to uh the station that we had to respond to and there was something to respond to, not just that calls came in. Yeah. You know, uh so I'm okay.
I'm okay with that not being something that was announced. Yep. Even though it made the ways on the social side, it didn't it didn't rise to the concern level. So I I I'm judging more the practice that's been going on and I like the practice that's been
going on. I haven't disagreed with any decision so far. Have you? One or two? Okay. Which ones? Um I disagreed with the Lullworth one because it wasn't an ongoing active danger to residents. It was a vacant
property that an 18-year-old, which I know on paper is an adult, but like broke into a vacant property and then got arrested. There is no ongoing danger, right? Like I as a resident don't have to be like, "Oh, let me lock my door cuz that's I'm not the target. There's going to vacant property." So to
me, I feel like the threshold that I'm looking at is is there an ongoing danger or risk to residents that we need to warn them about that they need to change their behavior on? And that one just didn't hit the bar for me. Um something like
traffic patterns, you know, or like this happens all the time. Every time I'm crossing Kings Highway, I feel like there is a bike who's like doing a wheelie. Like to me that's I would say like the police are aware. Like maybe that's an announcement worth making. Not so that we're getting like constant
phone calls being like, "Hey, did you see that? Yes. Yes, we saw. We're on it." So that kind of thing I would just push out not as like, "Haha, we got the bad guys." It's more like we're aware, we're monitoring the situation, you all can just go about your business. So, that that's more along the lines of what
I would hope to see. Well, I would like to see in that regard uh more of a campaign to say here's how you report it, you know, instead of uh complaining and thinking that we're just watching social media, actually here is
4293000, just give it a call, you know, and report what you see. Um, I would say that the Lworth one wasn't about safety. It was about property, right? And that uh it's property people
care about and it it is ours. Uh, and you know, much like somebody to I would I would take it to akin to somebody taking the golf cart out, right? Like just going for a joy ride on that. Uh, that was unacceptable. And going into a
publicowned facility is unacceptable. is unacceptable with private property. We just happen to be the owner. U and then add on to it. It's in closing, right? So, we have to show the new owner that we're still maintaining that property. So, I mean there's
I think think that one is you are correct. It's not a hazard to residents. The problem is it's been a hazard to that building. But that's a private conversation with that upcoming owner, not like the town. Yeah.
um except that the residents have been very vocal on the fact that they don't think we're doing enough for it. And so it's it's just it's bankrupt. And it and it may have been your point may be taken in the fact that that may have been something that
could have just gone out on social media and not necessarily on the app because it's not to the level of um you know harm to the residents potentially have you know have to be aware of something like you know somebody coming back to town and stand stealing bars again or something like
that. But um to their point, knowing the abuse that has been out there and and the very vocal folks that have been out there about there's people breaking in, there's people doing things. We've
walked on the property. You know, notification that we are watching and we're paying attention, trying to maintain the building helps offset that narrative, too. It's a deterrence factor. Yeah. in that kind of situation
and and I I think there's there's a an element of you know our police force is the size that it is and you know the only way to improve upon that is you know to make yourself look bigger and
act bigger and there is a a an element of if someone reads that and says gee you know 18-year-old there are people in town that look at their 18-year-old teenagers break into these places all the time. Bankrooft. My daughter used to break into when she was like 16, like with her friends and stuff like that.
Like it was a right of passage. Any parent that thinks her kid has not been in there like that like between the ages of like 15 to 17 is kidding. So I mean unbeknownst to me. So I think there's an element of you know a parent looking at this is saying hey you don't want to be on this app. You know you're
an 18-year-old like you have your world ahead of you. Like let's not be doing stupid things. And I think, you know, there's going to be a campaign we're going to have with driving um that will encourage that kind of discussion. And uh and we talked about last week that we're going to put in
place a police plotter on Tuesdays that will summarize the crimes that have been committed and get that out there in the open and people review those and see what's happening and the measures we're taking to to fight it. I I get both of I get all three of your points. Uh, I think then if the point is
to communicate this so town knows that there is police activity and we're monitoring and all that good stuff's going on, then the the tone of the message could be different. Like instead of saying, "Haha, we got the bad guy. Here's their picture." It could be, "Hey, we're aware that breakins happen at Lworth because it's a vacant
property. We just arrested an 18-year-old on Friday. We're monitoring. we're we're again monitoring and we put up cameras or something like the message is slightly different depending on what you want to communicate. So that would be my one ask. Well, but I will say that the official notification from the police department
didn't have commentary. Forwards had commentary, you know, and and I'm not going to say how you say something is any you have every right to say however you want to say it. Frank has every right to say however you want to say it. Yeah. Uh that that the it's the official
commentary that I have official com. That's fair. And and so in that one, it just said, "Hey, we caught somebody, you know, I I applauded Frank, you know what I'm saying?" Because I know what his goal is is to show bigger, be bigger, uh and be
present. And I I applaud the reputation effort because it is, you know, you can you don't mess with the big guy from the gym, right? because he's big and not just because he you don't even want to test him, right? And and I think from a reputation standpoint, I get what you're
trying to do. Um, so I want to try to give it time to work before and nobody's there aren't a lot of complaints about it. And there's no complaints about the official stand. And like I said, you can say however you want to say it. I'll say it however I want to say it and you can
too. So just establishing threshold here. go on. I think I've said nine piece. Okay. Um only thing I would say having had a
chance to read this now. Um departments each department is not on our social media. There's there's limited people who have access to our social media. Now we have we have some departments. Sherry has one for the senior citizens. We have some
departments that have even the police department has their own, but public works doesn't have their own. Anything for anyone other than those two entities are typically go through ours. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm fine with that. Yeah. They're not they're not expected to create their own.
Yes. Yeah. Um Yeah. Okay. Just making sure. All right. So, are you good with this? Uh and then just the the other thing with social media is that um the third
one down there this department should decide social media representative which I think some have I think the bumper fire department for example they have someone who handles their social media correct that person should leave it standard sign off on it and abide by it and but
said for part of the issue is that's for their fire company number one which is not had field fire department technically even though it is in the long run technically it's it's not so we we have let's just
say it's theirs that's why I pointed out the only ones that really any departments that have them is she you know they have theirs which they have access Joanna has access Sherry has her access they're very even different we had a couple we we limited
who was creating them initially everyone started creating problem you have is like the mun alliance the person that created it then all of a sudden goes away and nobody has the password and login information and now this thing dies because nobody knows how to get into it. Yeah. Um same thing happened initially with
the police department. Someone created a Facebook that then lost the access to. So you know human relations I think had one at one point in time. You know most of them have died. I think the environmental commissions has died because get in.
They couldn't get in. So, what we would prefer in those situations is for those folks to provide Joanna with all the information they want out so that we're putting it out so it gets out rather than than maintaining something that we don't because also all of those have to be
available through Oprah. We have an archive system that maintain on it. So, the library is more like fire company. They're their own entity. They're their own entity. So um and the partnership for Hadfield downtown Hadfield channel they're
they're an entity and so shade tree commission because that's some so we should make sure that we have access to the shade tree stuff only because one we have to make sure it's archived and two if people change we need to make
sure somebody has access to it because you know having seen a number of the other committees They tend to you have someone who's gung-ho and active and when that person is no longer there, no one steps in necessarily and then they kind of
just die and then people think they're out active, right? Fortunately, most of the yellow and red stuff is going around us. Um, so that's all. So that's that's why I said be there's basically three for the
go for the burrows. Senior citizens one police one and apps. Okay. I think that's great to include too here. It seems like there are two. There's also the older version. This one, right? Is that the
this one? Is this the original that you started out with? Yes, that's the original. I mean, there's some more content in here that I honestly don't think of. So, probably the next version of this is maring combination of those two. Some combination of these two. and even including like stuff like what you just
described the various pages or Facebook pages whatot for the commissions. Okay. I think I think Frank's comment is I think we can we did it in the emergency communication plan. So there is
preapproved things that can be done and then we can hand it to them and they can have access to put something up but only with the pre-approved stuff. Right. And that's covered in in Frank's one. Alerts for PD and FD should have
standard format and script approved by Joanna and the commissioners. And then only those things to be used approved ahead of time. Yep. All right. So, we'll combine some of the the things that the chair was talking about in the other ones and and apply it
to Frank's version, the last version of the what we put around today and send that out to you. Cool. Well, you know, so now in the things to talk about, uh, do we talk about the partnership in this plan? Uh, they're
their own entity. They're their own entity, so we should, right? Uh I think is in the old one. Yeah. Really? I mean I mean I get the entity thing but if I'm a resident and this is
very much designed for residents to understand our communications plan like I'm not as a resident. I'm not thinking oh those are two separate entities and therefore I need to go somewhere else to find that information. Like it's not saying that we aren't sharing information between the two. I know but the resident's not going to
get that. They're gonna want to understand. So we can put something in there explaining. Yes. Well, and and that's that's why I was bringing this up. So yeah, you jumped us up to say right in partnership with the Vera. The partnership of Hadenfield is
or you know in partnership with Vera the library is uh that's not the same as the Mabel K like the Mabel K is the Mabel K because that's ours. uh but uh but it it's really I would like to see an education. I mean it's it's one of my
beefs right is that it is very obuscated between uh what is a partnership and what is and this goes all the way down to the types of events. So when it is a burrow event, we should say the burrow is hosting versus the partnership for
Hatfield is hosting uh or the Lions Club is hosting, the Rotary is hosting to really talk about who is the host of these events because we only host four things, you know, and then the partnership hosts about seven things and then everything else is communitydriven. The fine arts and crafts festival,
wonderful, wonderful event that was I I call it tier three, right? So tier one is Barrett, tier two is partnership, tier three is any other and that was in any other very successful but that isn't in conjunction with the partnership for Adamfield. They work with us to flows
down the road and coordinate communication activity. Uh but that right that's not a partnership event that the fine arts and crafts festival is that's another conversation. Yeah. No, I mean I I guess but but but from an educating the public
standpoint, we have to come up with a process to educate the public about who's holding what that specific event. I'm picking on it. No, I know it is because this will come up next month or the following month or
something um depending on how we move forward. Um that was an event that was created and started back before the park shoe existed. Yes. Then the interaction between the entity
that runs the craft fair then continued on with the partnership created to be with the partnership and then the partnership would receive funds for that. There were from us or from them from them. Okay.
From them. Um so they don't just make money they also provided money. Um then there were some issues and in December that wasn't going to work well between each other. So in order not to lose it we took it over. We
approved the contract. Contract was with us. The first year the intention was still to provide the partnership with the funds. We will be having some discussion on how to move forward with that and and how that event occurs at a later time.
Sure. But and and as a general and to not talk about the fine arts and crafts festival at all which was a lovely event uh that thank you right and it didn't yeah right uh sure oh no no problem I didn't judge
that was its own thing too right but uh that there are there are events that lose steam from the organizers but don't lose desire hire from the residents. So, we have to
also help communicate and educate the public. The car show, I use that as an example. You know, we didn't lose the car show. They didn't want to pay for the safety improvements that we're putting on everyone, right?
Um, you know, there's no apology for wanting to keep the crowd safe that happened in our town. And it has a cost. Uh, and every organization that wants to hold an event on our town has to know a couple things. What they're asking for and how
much that will cost. And then they can decide how they're going to fund it. If they're going to fund it, if they're going to scale their event down or if they're not going to hold it. Uh, and that comes without an apology. I mean, it just has to come without an apology.
I agree. And I think the website should be the educ both educational tool and the central source of information. And I think having an events page and explaining here here are how events get hosted in town. The burough host things, other organizations host things, just
giving that rundown and then maybe listing all the annual events that we actually have full ownership over so that people like there is a central place people can go to learn about these things. Yeah. And in our packet tonight is a is a kind of a beginning of a list I saw of of all the events because that is
something that would be important to then delineate it's ours it's the partnerships or it is communitydriven with two a couple calls support them enjoy them or you know support the downtown join them
through celebrations orever mechanism or if it's organization driven get involved I realize this is a step beyond what but it the resolutions always say who's who Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. Of course. Well, because they have to because they're the applicant.
Uh but but most people don't go through these things, you know. It's one place where it is not noted though too, you know, and and a lot of events are really lovely. As I'm looking out, you know, it's like the skirmish is a great event. There's a lot of logistics in there and
there's a cost to that and it is what it is. Yeah, we can work. Yeah. Okay. Moving on. Discuss use of property. Um what we talked about last time is that we would give you a summary. I sent the you spreadsheet um
that highlight that's an ongoing spreadsheet. So the ones that you're talking about are the ones that are highlighted there. Um most of those are annual events. Um, so we talked about the fact that we would just bring them to your attention as a whole group as a whole in case you had any questions. Um,
they include the annual American Legions of Legion 5K, uh, Veterans Run, the Christ school 5K run, Kings Run, Rally in the Alley. Um, you'll notice Rally in the Alley, they're still working through numbers, but Rally in the Alley, this is what the third or fourth year that they've had
that they'll be planning on having it. So, they're aware there's costs and they're willing to pay them. Um, all three of those events are November of 2025. And then the garden club has put in for their annual plant fundraiser. They use King's Court. Uh, I believe
it's Mother's Day weekend or it's Mother's Day weekend and that's what delays the start of u the farmers market which welcome to Maryland. There any questions on the board events? Any questions on the board events?
No. No. Okay. We good to move forward with them? Sure. Okay. Hey, Matt, you want to join the table? Thanks. Are we skipping one? I put in partnership goes to
here. Are we talking about taxion? Okay. This is nice to meet you. How are you? Good. Thank you. Good. So, so let the record reflect. It took 12
seconds. 12 seconds. I bit my tongue. first first ball. Your pain must have been uh you know No, he said the short close to you. No to look at I haven't been there yet this year. No, I've read it once.
I read it. Sun, did you want to have a copy to refer to during it? If South can't do it south of France, then Matt can't do South of France. Well, I think S could do the south of France.
Okay, Matt, before we get into the, you know, the application itself, especially since we have two relatively new commissioners and the two are absolutely new, have not really gone through any of the Woodmont stuff. We want to kind of give just an
overview of the deal that was um in effect with Woodmont and kind of explain what a pilot is. Uh, sure. So, we the bureau signed a redevelopment agreement with Woodmont to
develop a residential project at Bankrooft site on May 1st of this year. Uh there's a provision in the redevelopment agreement that gives the redeveloper 60 days to file an application with the bureau to have the
property be um to receive a tax exemption and to instead of paying conventional taxes, conventional real estate taxes, pay what we call a payment in lie of tax or a pilot and what the long-term tax exemption law calls an annual service charge. So when you hear
pilot or annual service charge, those are the same thing, right? Statute says annual service charge, real um and the redevelopment agreement also specify what the pilot calculation would be for
the 30-year term. So before I get into that sort of high level overview, um payment in L of tax replaces conventional taxes on improvements and in certain circumstances on the property itself.
Right? When we all get a tax bill, there's an assessment on our land value and assessment on our improvement value. And those two things put together lead to the taxes that we pay. the pilot is a tax on the improvements. The land can
either still be conventionally taxed or can be exempt and simply not pay taxes. And I'll get into why we we actually prefer when we have to be exempt and pay taxes. Um, a pilot can be paid by a developer in a redevelopment area for a
period not to exceed 30 years from issuance of the first certificate of occupancy for the project. So although we signed a redevelopment agreement on May 1st, you know, it may be three years before the first or more before the first units are actually constructed at
the bankrupt site. From now until when we sell the property to the developer, the property is of course owned by the burrow, tax exempt, paying zero tax revenue to the burrow. Once we sell the property to the developer, they will pay
conventional land taxes from the date that they own the property until the date that they start um completing units as evidenced by a certificate of occupancy that our construction department will issue. They build a build. Think of it this way. They're going to build four building residential buildings.
Each time they're they're going to build three residential buildings. Each time they they complete a building, they're going to pull a certificate of occupancy for that building. Right? that's going to trigger the pilot commencing in lie of conventional taxes on that
improvement. Um the way a pilot works, we agree to a formulaic determination of how much they're going to pay. Every pilot dollar that is paid to the municipality, the bureau keeps 95% of. Right? So for
every dollar we get in pilot revenue, 95 cents goes to you, the burough budget. Five cents by statute goes to the county. can't avoid that. That's the way it is. But out of every pilot dollar, that's how it's split. 95% to us, 5% to the county. None to any of the other
taxing districts throughout the That's to incentivize developer to go quickly and well, the tax exemption is and the pilot are there for the developer because but for the pilot, they could not afford to
build the project if it were to be conventionally taxed. And there's a separate analysis that your independent municipal advisor went through to say if Woodmont was going to build what they propose on this site based on the purchase price, their construction costs, the rents they're going to get,
etc., etc., and we conventionally taxed it, they couldn't afford to build it. They would not get an investment return that would be big enough for them to either risk their own equity, right? 30% of $60 million to construct the project.
Or probably more importantly, get a construction lender, a bank to say, "This project has enough of a return that we the bank are willing to lend the 70% of that $60 million that they need to build the project." Without a lend,
without a construction lender to to come up with 70% of the cost, the developer can't build a project. So, what the pilot does does two things. one, it lowers their tax bill in theory from what conventional taxes would have
been, but again, the project never would have been built. So, in reality, that's zero. Um, and two, it provides certainty to the developer and the lender because the developer controls every line item in their proform, right? They control rents, they control operating expenses,
they control how many people they staff at the site, they control lawn maintenance, they control all of those things. The biggest single item that they can't control is how much you, the county, and all the other taxing districts raise taxes year over year
over year. And that's a big ticket item in Ohio formula, right? Is it going to be 2%? Is it going to be 4%? Is it going to be 6%? Is it going to be zero? They have no control over what their tax bill does year. So when there's a pilot in
lie of conventional taxes, they know with certainty exactly how much they're going to pay year over year over year and the lender knows exactly how much they're going to pay year over year over year. So the proforma has certainty to it, right? Because now we've controlled
one of the biggest expenses that they have by virtue of saying you're going to pay X as a pilot in year one, Y in year two, Z in year three, etc., etc. The county has agreed to this, too. So, the county has no consent right.
They have no ability to say yes or no. But the long-term tax exemption law, which is the state law that allows a municipality to grant this tax exemption and allow the redeveloper to pay a pilot, that law says the county gets 5%.
No more, no less. Okay, that's it. Um, we calculate how much the developer is going to pay in pilot, typically in one of two ways. And the way we're doing it here is by far the boric. It's a percentage of the
developer's annual gross revenues. That percentage by statute can't be less than 10%. It can be as high as you want it to be, but it can't be less than 10%. Annual gross revenues are every revenue
dollar that the redeveloper receives. Rent, if they charge parking, if they charge a unit um a tenant extra money to have a pet, they charge a cleaning fee, right? Any of those charges that they
get are revenue to them. We get a percentage of their gross revenue as a pilot. So, we're not worried about their operating expenses. We're not worried about it's not a net number, right? You you collect X in rent, you collect Y in parking fees, you collect Z in in pet
fees that we get 10% of that bottom line number as a pilot. In this particular case, we are going to get 10% of their annual gross revenues for the first 10 years. We're going to
get 11% of annual gross revenues for the next five years. We're going to get 12% of annual gross revenue for the next five years after that and we're going to get 13% of annual gross revenue for the last 10 years. 5 12 13
um the the percentages of annual gross revenue are going to be 10 11 12 and 13 for 10 years 5 years 5 years and 10 years which gets us to 30 years which is the maximum term under state law we can
have a pilot at the end of the 30-year term the project goes back onto the conventional tax roles and the property will start paying conventional taxes like any other property would. So, unfortunately, there will come a point
in time where we will not collect 95 cents of every tax dollar. We will go back to collecting whatever percentage of a traditional tax dollar you're getting, 12 cents, 15 cents, something like that that the municipality is getting. 17 cents. Now, in 30 years,
what will that number be? Who knows? Maybe around the same. Um but at some point after 30 years the properties do stop paying pilot and it goes back to paying um conventional taxes.
At what point does Woodmont start to make profit in this model? So um they will start making revenue in excess of u their expenses
under their proforma. I think it was year four or five they'll start actually it they carry a negative typically for the first couple of years and then ultimately um they'll start making revenue. They are by law a limited dividend
entity. They are not allowed. They're a limited profit entity. They're not allowed to make more than I think it's 12 and a quarter% 12 and a half% profit. If they make any more than that, we get
paid the excess profit as an annual as an additional pilot payment over and above the pilot payments we've already started in year 16. Uh no, the the the profit is at any point in time. You're thinking of the
stepups, which I'll come to in a second. But if um if basically because the the periods can be cumulative, in other words, they can have a profit year one, a loss in year two, they get to net those before they get to year three. So, because it's cumulative, basically at
the end of the 30-year period, if they overall have an excess profit, that money will come back to you as an additional service charge. What you're thinking about is not only are we going to get paid a pilot equal to 10%, 11%,
12%, 13% over the 30-year period, but in addition to that, we're going to look in years 1 through 15, we're not going to do anything. But in beginning in year 16, we're going to look at the amount that they're paying us in pilot. And we're going to say which amount is
higher, the pilot amount or 20% of conventional taxes. Whichever number is higher, that's what they're going to pay us as a pilot. Which means even if it's the 20% of conventional taxes, we're still going to get the n keep to keep
the 95 cents. And then after a period of years, we're going to do the same analysis, but say what's more, the 11 or 12% of the pilot or 40% of grow of uh conventional taxes and then 60% of conventional taxes and then 80% of
conventional taxes. And what's that? What that is meant to do is by the time you get out to years 27, 28, 29, when you're evaluating the pilot against 80% of taxes, if the 80% number hits, well then two or three years later when they
have to pay 100%. It's not a massive jump for them, right? Because they're already paying a pilot equal to 80% of their conventional taxes in the out years. But if they're starting to make a profit at year six, then why is the pilot period 30 years long?
Because well, first of all, the the analysis of their return is across the entire project period. So just because they're making a profit doesn't mean it's enough of a profit for them to justify doing the entire project right from start. So, what your municipal
advisor did was took a look at the 30 years of revenue that the developer is going to get, took into account the cost that it's going to take to build it, the the initial construction loan that they're going to have to take out to build it, the long-term loan they're
going to have to get to take out the construction lender, and figure out across all of that, what is their end return? what is their return on their investment on their 30% you know of the equity side and the answer initially was
a percentage that was too low to make it worth anybody's anybody's risk profile right so what do we want to do we want to get that rate of return up in like the 9 10 11% range that's a rate that is
fair to banks fair to the developer they're not making like killing upon killing there are taking the risk that they get this thing built, they get it leased, it stays leased for 30 years. So that all of that profit that you're thinking of like beginning in year five
or six, that's all accounted for in the analysis of what is their overall return on their investment and is it too low? Is it too high? Is it right in the middle? If it were too high, probably wouldn't be having a conversation about a pilot because they'd probably be able
to afford taxes. If it's too low, we're having a conversation about a pilot to say what can the pilot amount be to get that rate of return for them up to that level, that 9, 10, 11% that is acceptable for conventionally for them
to want to move forward with the project and for us to be willing to have them move forward with this project. And after all of that, we're going to take a property that currently pays you zero and over the 30-year term is projected to pay you over $26 million in new pilot
payments um in total of which you're going to keep 95% of. Right? So you're going to keep projection about $25.4 $4 million in additive revenue to the burough budget over that 30-year time
period based on the rental assumptions um growth you know growth in rents etc. Okay, I felt shut up. It's never paid taxes except for when Lworth was. Yeah. Wait, say that word again.
Never well over 100 because it was even tax exempt when Got it. So this is so so that's what the that's what protects the the builder and the lenders um for the project. The reason I brought up the step up or the taxes otherwise do
is we're valuing the towns. So are will get reassessed a couple times during you know we'll have a townwide reassessment a couple times during the life of their project of perform u it should so generally state law requires a a preassessment every 10
years it's a rule that's following the breach no municipality likes to do it they'll stretch it out more ends up being 15 or more it ends up being more how what your ratio is to 100% and we've been in the n we've been within what is reasonable so we haven't
been required. The last one we did was probably 15 years ago, 2008. Yeah. So, and the reassessment process just happens and it will happen for this pro property at least once during that many years. So, the point of of what is greater the
taxes otherwise do. That doesn't mean they get a free ride on the increased value of Henfield. As Kylenfield increases in value, if that value is greater than their average service charge, well then they're going to pay us the value like every other property
has enjoyed the appreciation of their land and improvement. Yeah. And and even before that, you know, to the I mean the community is already as you all know overwhelmingly desirable community which is going to drive rents, right? And as the community
continues to grow and get better and better, that's going to allow Woodmont to um increase rents and you're getting a percentage of rents. I mean, you're a partner effectively. Think of it that way, right? So, the more successful they are, the more that rents go up over
time, the more revenue you're collecting over and above, you know, what we're talking about, you know, in terms of project. And the amenities that they left in the project are enhanced revenue and uh amenities garages, garden plots, peds, you know, and and
things that make Yeah, there's a rooftop amenity, right? Overlooking the Cooper River. There's some things that they do. I mean, there it's class A rental, right? It's it's top-of-the-line rental for sure. So, uh that will obviously drive rents. So, when do we talk about the email
Jamie sent in relation to this? Well, that's that's a different conversation about allocating revenue, right? So, um if and I've I've said this in so if we own the land, if it was always our land,
right? Um Wheeler Park for example was donated land. Um Mount Well Park where public works. If that was our land and we were just turning it over for redevelopment, we'd be making money on dollar one, right? Uh so any pilot
payment would just be banner and we could spend it however we want. This isn't the case. We spent 20 million. Yeah. Probably like about 20 million when all was said and done acquiring the land that we're selling. Mhm.
So we actually are out of this and even after selling this off, we still owe. So imagine you're still paying a mortgage on a house you sold. That's that's the position we're going to be in. We're still going to be paying a mortgage on the house we sold. Um
some of that the majority of the land 7.15 acres or whatever we're going to be paying well we're still going to own it. So that's great. So there but it's going to be passive recreation. So it's worthless land in terms of any ever
making tax revenue for the right and they'll never do that. Um and even the sale price in the early years of the pilot have to go pay back the loan that we're going to take out for the remainder of it. Um we don't know
what the amount is actually we don't know all of that. The simp the simplest thing from from the analysis that we did for at least 15 years of this pilot we're in essence still covering debt service that's outstanding. Right. I got
and and so any discussions with the school would be after that debt service is paid off because there's still as as the mayor's indicated there's still money all the money we've spent down there between the settlement the demolition the purchase of the property all of that
is is far more than the one point you know or the three million between our open space and the and the county or the state open space the three million for the combined of those two and the 5 something or whatever they're we're p
they're purchasing it from what's their sale price. Yeah. So it's three or four point something just under five right here. Yeah. So the offshoot is we have been covering you know the debt service on all of that
up until this point. the pilot coming in is going to be able to help us. So that that's helping to offset the debt service because there's going to be increases in the future because we're going to get the money coming in from them. There's a currently a a temporary note outstanding that's not going to be
paid off fully from the sale price. So that's going to have to be made permanent financing. So that our debt service is going to be increasing in the coming years between stuff the demolitions and stuff have not been permanently financed yet. all of that, our debt service is going to increase in
the coming years because of once we get all of that settled. That's going to help offset all of that. The conversation with Jamie and and the board of ed realistically because you don't want to give up funds coming in to help so that your taxpayers aren't having to increase their taxes to cover
something that you have money coming in that can cover. the conversation with the school will take place more at the end when all of that is paid off and then you guys can make a reasonable decision as to whether or not you share that with the school or not. But within that time there will be
students introduced in a school district potentially. What what's the district supposed to do? the same as it does when a home that has snow kids in it is sold and um comes in with anywhere from one to four kids. When they were raising the bond, I mean
that's specifically addressed on the website saying that part of the reason for the bomb was to account for u the pending properties that uh like you know bank rob and others that may and um and stoden for people who are going to be
joining the community like it's still on the website. That's why I've always thought like, well, you had to raise the bond to get it and you accounted for it. Then why are you asking for it now? Well, no, I I appreciate the position that the school district is in.
It's the taxpayer of Hadenfield that pays one tax bill. And and if we gave pilot money to them to cover the students, then we'd have to raise the municipal rate to take the back fill,
you know, that of money that we would transfer that we would then be short on the that service payment. So it incentivizes us in two ways. one to then shop the open land to county to state for for
green acres preservation. So whatever money we could get there further pays down our outstanding debt which then speeds up the clock of money that can then be spent in other areas like the school district. Um, but
this is where the partnership between the bureau and the school district really has to be tighten because it is one tax bill where for Rob and Peter to pay Paul were both under that same uh cris still, you know, of of how much
they can raise, how much we can raise. And then it it's an open dialogue. Their ability to go above their cap is a referendum and our ability to go above a cap is not a referendum. It depends on depends on how you're
going over the cap. We have the ability to exceed the cap. If you're if we're going over the cap because of debt service or something that's allowable to go increase over the cap, you're okay. But if not, we have to go to reference problem. Sure. But but since we do have a we do have debt service as part of this entire
equation, we can always go over the cap to cover that debt service if we were releasing funds to the school district. It's a premature conversation is really what I'm trying to get at is we can solve the cash problems of the burrow and the
district through negotiation on a year-by-year basis. Once we get to that conversation, we're not at that conversation now. And I think it's a little premature to say we are absolutely going to take this amount of money and give it to the schools when
they don't even know how many students it's going to be. Right. But once they have this number of students that it's going to be and this is why when we were doing the walk through with CIS CIS I said as soon as you know the numbers you hand two pieces of paper to them the child find documentation so that anybody that's not
of school age the district knows right away that you're coming in to to the placefield and then the other number is go contact the district with tell them how many kids you got because they're the two things the faster they know them the faster that they can plan and And the same thing's going to happen when
Bankraftoft starts when Woodmont's property. Uh I would start call start calling it Driscoll Place and trying to sell the Driscoll name down the line. But you know when Driscoll Place starts to populate with students um they will then have to go to that same month. It's
premature at this point how many students there going to be are what were our our calculations were 10 to 12. Uh yeah, at most it was like 16 or something like that students and that's of course all that's across all ages. Yep. Right. And um you don't know at the time
like that by the time those first kids come in has a school system in whole had three years of declining enrollment or is the enrollment on the uptick? Right? I mean, those are the things. I think the point here is you make those decisions closer to real time because if they have 30 less kids and
then 10 kids come in and and for three of us with a four-year term, it's an easy commitment to say at that point in time, sure, let's open up the talks and on a year-by-year basis, let's figure it out. But in the first four years, this isn't even gonna have a have a single
resident. I understand. I understand why you say it's premature. I get it. The other the other key thing when it comes time to discussing it is as Matt said, you know, the numbers coming in are not the taxes. They're not
not what the tax number is necessarily. So the same thing for us, we are not going to take that money coming in and use it to offset an expense. We're not going to add another police officer or, you know, um, hire three more public works
employees from that money. We're going to use it for a one-time expense. We're going to use it for debt service or we're going to use it, you know, if we have a surplus of over and above the debt service, we're going to use it to for capital or something that's a one-time expense because that money is going to go away at some point in time
in the future. And none of us may be sitting at this table when that happens. But what you don't want to do is build a budget up on something that's coming in that's going to guarantee to go away and not be replaced at the same level. Agreed. So that's my precautionary tale.
So with all of that said, I know that was a lot. Um I'm with you still. What's that? I'm still with you. Excellent. Um we are here today because per the terms of the redevelopment agreement within 60 days of the effective date of the redevelopment agreement which was May 1st uh on June
30th the um Woodmont did file an application with the burrow for a tax exemption asking for a pilot in the amounts the 10 11 12 13% that um I just took you through which are which were already set in the redevelopment
agreement um under the long-term tax exemption law. We cannot consider a pilot without an application first by the developer. We now have that application. Pursuant to the long-term tax exemption law, the mayor has 60 days to um provide a recommendation letter to
the governing body with respect to um the pilot that is being applied for. The pi the terms of the pilot are memorialized in a document that we call a financial agreement. We are I'm going to say 99 and a half% done negotiating
that financial agreement with the developer. There's just one or two little things that we're sort of going back and forth on the tax exemption and the approval of the financial agreement are uh approved by the governing body by ordinance. So the process at you know
subject to obviously your discretion after tonight would be we go out tomorrow we finalize the last one or two little items in the red in the financial agreement. Uh we can certainly send that to the bureau as soon as you'd like. As soon as it's done we prepare a
recommendation letter for the mayor to consider. We prepare an ordinance for you to consider as early as your next meeting or thereafter. And then you would introduce the meeting the ordinance one night and then hold public hearing and final adoption of the
ordinance at a second meeting. After that we can execute the financial agreement. The pilot is in place and it kind of just sits there until they start building and then pulling cos and then that's when the pilot revenue starts to but it also sits now for them to have
the documentation guaranteed the bank 100%. Yeah. Right. So this is a necessary document for them to actually start the project. I I mean the timing is um I'll say typical that you're getting a financial agreement done this early. The only reason I hesitate is because
more times than not we do the financial agreement the same night that we're doing the redevelopment agreement. In other words, we normally do the financial agreement if anything earlier in the process than we've done it here. And it may for the reasons that you're talking about. In this particular case, we had a unique sort of path to get
through in light of um you know various court orders with with fair share housing center lawsuits etc etc. So we took a a a slightly modified path only to say that the financial agreement is coming within 60 days or the application
within 60 days and then I think the redevelopment agreement says you have another 120 days after the application to get the financial agreement approved. So we sort of instead of doing them both the same night we did one and addressed the other in the first so we had a clear
path going forward. So two qu one statement and one question. So from a statement standpoint, my reading through of the pilot quest, it's everything we talked about, right? It was the sale price is the sale price that he negotiated and
agreed to in the redevelopment agreement uh and the purchase and sales agreement. Um the pilot terms of 10, 11, 12, and 13 at the year breaks were what we discussed and what are in the redevelopment execute redevelopment. Yes, that's what
we discussed on Memorial. But that's what I mean. These are all things that have been memorialized. They all match. Yep. Um I was surprised that there was a greater of Yeah. Right. So cool because that's even better. Yep. Right. Uh
what happens if they sell project? So the pilot runs with the land. So, there's going to there's a provision in the financial agreement that you'll see that will allow for once the project is complete, it will allow for a transfer to another urban renewal entity because
under state law, we only an urban renewal entity can get get the benefit of a pilot. It's different if it's for sale because obviously it's people like you and I are not urban renewal entities. But if it's a condo, we're allowed to buy them. But in this case, it's a rental. So, the entity that
you're selling it to will need to be an urban renewal entity in the state of New Jersey. They will not be allowed to have any other project um redevelopment project. And these are all limited purpose LLC's. Um we will charge a transfer fee equal to 2% of that year's
annual service charge. Oh, that's what that states. So, there will be a little additional revenue to the municipality, not planned. So, we're not showing it in a number or anything like that. Um, and the and the um transfere entity has to
assume all of the obligations under the financial agreement. So, they will have to pay the pilot. They will have to complete an audit at year end. How do we know we're getting 11% of annual gross revenue? Because at the end of every year the developer has to file an audit
from a certified you know accounting firm not only to us but also to the state saying here are my revenues here are all my you know expenses etc etc here's the percentage of gross revenues I'm supposed to I was supposed to pay to you so we get to validate the math on
our own based on an audit prepared by an independent third party you know certified public accounting firm and of course that's being filed with the state you file for the documents with the state it's problematic. Um so the the transfer entity has to assume all of
those same all of those all of the provision of the financial they have to assume as well. And we just transferred a pilot. We haven't done it yet. Oh, we haven't done it yet. We haven't done it yet. Oh, okay. Well, that's a yours is that's a little it's a little bit you have a unique one. So, it's a bad example, but
because this one's from before this is that's not a long-term tax executive law pilot, right? As I recall, it's a pre long-term tax law has been around since '92. This one, I think, was pre2. So, it's a little They've always liked it.
But you will have to approve it. Yeah. If they if I'm sorry, you would have to approve a transfer under this one if um Woodmont came to you in seven years and said, you know, we want to sell it to another, you know, rental development. But there's no opportunity to
renegotiate anything in this. They have to have because that's the difference between that one and the other one is there were points that we renegotiate with time. There's a there's a whole thing with that one that we again that one's falling under different rules and regulations and we have to confirm
because we're at towards the end of that pilot. Yeah. That that person is going to because the pilot's 30 years. However, we believe the hold on the on the building is for 40 years. So we get past this fourth round cycle. Well, it's not just a fourth round
cycle. I don't want to run into like absolutely and that's one of the things we're trying to confirm. Okay. I mean that's what that was one of the last things that Colleen did was very and that's why we have not moved forward with that one yet because we're we have to finish all the paperwork
because I completely agree with Yeah. Yeah. Right. Meaning to extend the period of time to keep it affordable so they don't convert it into market rate. Correct. Yeah. Okay. So, in this case, a transfer, think of the pilot's just running the land, goes to the next property owner. You change
the name on the tax bill, you keep sending it, they keep paying it. Fair enough. Thanks, M. Yep. I didn't have anything else on this. I don't right now, but I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future. And you know how to find me. And if
nothing else, I'm sure I'll be back at one of these to have another discussion, maybe a public hearing if a question. Do you? But that's up to you guys. But if you guys are good, are we introducing this ordinance at the end of this month? I'm fine with it.
I'm fine. We should have a conversation with the school district ahead of this, you know, like should we not like sit down with them and explain this? I'd love to sit down, but it's more than just this. You know, there's, you know, one of the things that I've I've been
saying all along is there are other opportunities for us to share costs and share revenues with different activities, whether that be recreation activities, um, maintenance activities
and taxable activities. We just we can have that conversation. It's not limited to just a pilot because it is an unknown number under an unknown revenue source like it it that is really premature and that's totally fair. I get it when
you say it like that but before we introduce this publicly as something you know first reading second reading that whole process like why don't we just sit down with them and just have that start the conversation. So, two things. If both boards are going to meet, it has to be a public meeting of both boards.
Okay. So, that that's one. Okay. Um, you know, if it's going to be just a subcommittee, it can only be one commissioner, you know, and however many. Yeah. And we'd be we'd be out.
So, I think it would have to be public meeting because you want a joint meeting. It would have to be a joint meeting. Yeah. No, we have that discussion. Um, there is time between the the intro and so I'll go back to the rules of the rules of ordinance. There's an
introduction and then there's a 30-day review period before we would have the hearing on it. I think from a scheduling standpoint, we could schedule within the 30-day window after junction. So, we would be looking to introduce on
the 28th. The public hearing would not be until your August meeting, which is the second one is like the 25th or something. Yes. 1st and the 11th. So, two weeks later, like that. I'm in the south of France that day.
12 might not work. So, there there's always been that feel and holler about doing things during the summer. However, that's an entity that works during the summer and they're the primary requester. They they're here during the summer and we're here during
the summer. So, it's not I wouldn't say the typical Habit field applies here. It will be difficult to get one before the 28th, but we could do something before the August meeting if you're comfortable with that. Yes. Because you can introduce it.
We've already I mean and the other statement is the agreement to the pilot and the mechanisms of the pilot has already been agreed to as part of the approval of the redevelopment agreement
with Woodmont. It's already in there. This is just the technical details of it. The conversation we're having would be we're introducing this. This is what we anticipate. we believe it's too soon to have in
detail conversations. they'll tell you it's not and they love money or some other you know story not story some other comment to them as typical to the email that we received today and then you guys can hash through
it and you'll walk out of there and we have the the adoption again nothing adopting this ordinance and this agreement doesn't change your ability at a once we start
receiving the money in to budget a portion that you're going to give to the school and that's what I want to communicate with them and to memorialize it too because I would I would actually disagree that anything like that should be in this document correct because this is a document between the taxes and fee
and Woodmont correct and Woodmont uh we could have an ordinance or resolution or however way we want to handle it have an agreement between the board of education and the commissioners there's a patent field at some future date.
Yeah, absolutely. Or you can just annually decide what you want to appropriate in each budget. Each everybody gets that discretion. Yeah. For example, Cherry Hill had a deal where they were getting pilots in and the school would come to them with things that they wanted to purchase or
do. Again, they kept it to one-time costs. So, they would fund one-time costs for school, not offsetting their budget. operating and and that was my point too is to say say year seven uh they had gotten four
students and and this is math and this is this is absolutely a hypothetical their tuition rate it's a little over 15 but I'll just keep it at 15 for for math keep it simple so that's $16,000 that those four students in year six
would have had there would be a discussion and an opportunity if they had a school bus. You know, we can buy the school bus because we can capitalize a whole lot faster and easier. Two votes, two people raise raise the money
to buy the school bus, you know, and that offsets it. It's not a one for one. It's a one for one in a relationship that's tur. We don't have a tur relationship with our school board. I hope you know and this is what college is trying to do with college with board of education is to say there are some
things Well, I know you roll your eyes. not but but there were opportunities for them to do offsetting costs purchases and uh payments there there are lots of ways to skin the cat to make everyone as
whole as we possibly can but they don't get to be 100% whole and we get to be eat it because if you look at our budget one of the bigger line items 13% is uncollectible taxes
So, this is another uncollectible tax. Um, and and I'm going to say this very clearly because Chuck I'm sure is watching and if he's not watching he's going to watch the recording and and he chastised me at a debate is
whatever they budget whatever they plan for. or if they have to plan for seven students and they come up with a budget that they approve and the state okays, we collect the taxes and they get a 100% of their budgeted amount and the rest
that's uncollectible is our debt. I get that. So, so that is the best and first way that we help the school district is help them with their planning. Once they have a plan that's proved by them and by the state, we collect the tax and they're
whole. That doesn't mean they're whole in terms of they couldn't afford certain things because they had extra students. Well, we can't either, you know. So, it's we're the two taxable entities in the town. We'll both take the hit and that's why we have to work together to
minimize the hit. The hit's going to happen. We just have to minimize it. But we can't apologize. Again, I'm not going to apologize to say they get paid completely whole and we eat it all because we already eat it for everybody. I don't think that is their intention,
but I I want them to and this is not a oneanddone conversation either. This is, hey, let's kick this off and we will regularly meet and keep discussing, maybe revisit it annually, but I want them to know that we want to come to the table and have a have a conversation with just that.
I'm I'm totally with you and and we're saying the same thing. I think it's a year over. Every year we're going to have to solve the problem. Yeah. Okay. So, we're going to introduce on on the 28th and then put it on for public hearing and potential adoption at
the meeting in August where Matt's going to be in Sally France. You can zoom in. It's okay. Do we need Matt at the introduction or only at the hearing? I I would say we need Matt at the
introduction. We would only need Matt at the hearing if it's happening not the next month because there were substantial changes that Pton is a part of those discussions. So for minor changes we can accept with amendment you know or you know the second you know the
the the hearing. Can any changes be made between the first and second? No certainly not substantive changes but I don't think that's what I mean. the the what you're going to be approving is the tax exemption and the business terms of the
pilot between the burrow and woodmont only. So I don't based on everything I've heard at least tonight about your in your discussions at the board of ed I'm not sure that would have any impact on the ter the business terms of the pilot
between the burrow and woodmont because you don't need woodmont's consent. you don't need the board of ed to be a part do this agreement you you know it's the conversation you're talking about is basically a budget conversation of $400 revenue that will work together to solve the
problem right so I don't I it's hard to imagine a circumstance where that discussion leads to a different an amendment to the financial agreement or the pilot between introduction and final adoption public
hearing and final adoption Right. And and they're both once July, one's August. So just choose one, whichever works better with the schedule. It's one there's a public hearing and one there's not the critical the ordinance you're introducing it. There's the only questions you're going
to have is at the very beginning of the meeting before you take your action. There's no public comment in the introduction. It's not until public comment. Oh, no. That's a good point. Probably to come to the budget hearing because it will have its own public comment period. Correct. So that's probably what you
should come to. Cancel my trip. This is going to be an ongoing show. Yes. For the rest. See how long this meeting lasts. All right.
Um, can you just stay here for one minute? There's something I forgot to put on here that I need to talk to you about anyway. So, okay. You could stick around. We have something else anywhere that is there anything to say if you were gonna read it. Do you think we need to or not? No. Okay. But that's fine.
Can we take a breather or no? No. No. We're good. Oh, can we take a breather for a couple of minutes for question? Yeah, that was more of a Sure. You're not the only one. Sure. All right. So, we're just going to take a five minute recess. Yeah. Okay. So, we're going to introduce that
ordinance at the end of this month, schedule a meeting with the board, a joint meeting with the board of education, and have the public hearing at the end of August. Next item on the agenda is to talk about the 2024 audit. Each of you received a
copy of this lovely document. We um we are audited every year. It's a requirement. Um and basically there will be a resolution on the next meeting that says you have
received it and accept it. Um I say the word accept because there is a difference between agree or approve and accept because you could have an audit that has 20 comments in it that you may not agree on all the comments. you would
still have to accept the audit because it's been provided. It's been prepared and provided to you. So that is the resolution. Um the audit is clean. There are no comments. Uh and Dave has asked the auditors to come to our meeting and provide just a
short synopsis of the audit um to just make it available to the public. Okay. Are there any questions? Did I read correctly that there was a surplus? We always have. Yes, we we we actually have one of the things that
you'll get because you started after and I don't know if Diana put the packet together, but there's a number of um policies that we redo at the beginning of every year. And one of them is like a surplus policy where we state that we
try and keep x percentage of surplus available. It's to um offset in case there's some major emergency that comes up to keep our cash flow running and things like that. Um and then or delays from the state when it comes from doing the budget because then we
had to do our spending resolutions come out and stuff. Yes. Delays from the state or delays from the state regarding capital or or grants and stuff, you know, because we typically receive grant money after we've spent it. Um will any of that go towards the debt service?
So, we budget every year. So, one of the things that you that we budgeted in this year's 2025 budget is we use um a little less than half of it, we had I think a $7 million surplus and we used 3.1 say 3.2 because it's a little more than 3.1
3.2 million as a revenue in our budget. So, we anticipate that we'll replace that, you know, either with excess revenues. There's a couple of revenues that come in that we don't anticipate in the budget. that are put in as miscellaneous revenues not anticipated
that we know help to you know offset that um that reserve for uncollected taxes. If the percentage we used we collect better than that then that also goes back into refund surplus or it's
it's when you budget it it's called surplus. When you account for it on your books it's called fund balance. Don't ask me why but that's what the state of New Jersey does. Um, so yes, so we do use it to help offset taxes. Um, but we try to limit that amount too
as to only an amount that we believe that we can replenish so that we're not, you know, we've had years where we've got hit a little harder and haven't been able to replenish it as much and so we try and make sure that we can keep that roughly
around the same. Okay. Um and just to reiterate, no material weaknesses, no compliance viol violations and we are deemed on solid financial firm. And they recommend they actually called
us out for a strong internal financial controls. Okay. Um so the next item on the agenda is the 72825 budget meeting. Yes, sorry. the agenda for the meeting.
Um, so as I said, there's the there's the audit. We do have the adoption of our budget, the adoption of the partnerships budget, a number of ordinances that we had introduced. So, you have your cap bank,
uh, the traffic for the stop signs on late, changing title for our senior citizen, and the second reading on our salary ordinance. Um the resolutions um one of the things on the resolution
is we are approving fees and assessments for tree removals. We made a change to our shade tree ordinance a couple of years ago so that we would pass a resolution um when we need each year to change or to set those fees because we are basing
them off of our actual cost. So the trees that we do inhouse is based off of the salaries for the folks that um do the work. And then trees over a
certain amount is based off of the average cost to remove a tree from the bid that we put out each year. So that's how we create that the numbers that are on that resolution is my point. um because those are fees that we charge
if people wrongfully take down a tree or damage one of our trees or something like that. And don't we change that? So, so you wouldn't have to do it by ordinance. This this is designed to be more fluid. If I remember the four was by ordinance, which is a two-step process. So, yes,
extend your ordinance. So, just so we're flexible that that those fees will be set by resolution each year. Yeah. So, there's more flexibility to be able to do it. Um, speaking of trees, uh, don't we have to award the contract for tree removal? Did all that.
Did we do that? We did tree stalk stuff. Yeah, at the last at the last meeting. Okay. All right. Yeah, I vaguely remember that, too. All right. Those stinky trees, huh? Yeah, it's still in there. Well, I Yeah, I know we got the results. I forgot that we ordered. Yeah. Yeah.
Uh, you know, because we I think we probably did it under consent. Okay. We did do them under consent. Yeah. Okay. No, no. Um, you you discussed the difference between a a stock and an old stalk or stump.
You were brilliant, too. No, so much. So, I don't even remember. Um, okay. Then the we annually the state of New Jersey puts out a a municipal DOT
grant for roads. Um this year we are submitting for Roads Avenue from Nicholson Lane to Grove Street. Um and that's based off of there are criteria for that and that's based off of of the roads that fell within the criteria. This was the one that was
rated the worst and fell within the approximate amount of money we anticipate receiving if we're granted an award. So that's is that based upon the visual inspection or was that based upon the violics? No, it's all it's the new ones. Well,
yeah. No, it's it's the new one car driving around. Yep. We had the new we had the new report that I got to remember to give all you guys. Um the only change uh obviously we'll have introducing the ordinance for the
pilot on here. Um we'll be introducing the telecommunications. So, there'll be two additional ordinances that'll be on for first reading. Yes, first reads. I want to point out just because uh the by title only uh
call outs 101 and 102, it's because we've already read them in the first year. So, we had Alex Davidson uh do the first one um and walk through it and like uh presented the PF budget at the last meeting. So, we're not going to do that
again. And that's why it says by title only. And since they both have hearings and their own public comment periods, uh, I try to keep the meeting as long as possible. We're trying to keep this short. Yeah. And we'll be able to answer any questions that come up. Sure. We should explain that though. People
are not going to get it. Well, that's why I just said it now in this meeting. We can say it again. Yeah. And it's Yeah. I mean, it says by title only because otherwise you're supposed to read out every line of the budget. Yeah. And nobody does that. So that's kind of
why they put in there, right? But we we did walk through all the major categories from both of the budgets. Yes, we did the pres we did a presentation the last one. Here's all the line items for the budget if we had to read them out. No, no, no. I I don't want to. I'm not
I'm not saying we should. I'm just saying just saying explain why we're audience is not going to get it otherwise. You want to read it. The only other new thing that needs to be added to this is which I was just talking about about um is is a capital item, but it is not new
money. We have um leftover money from already designated ordinances for public safety work and for some other things that we are going to reappropriate. So, it's no new it's no new debt service. It's debt we've already authorized but
we did not use to the full amount. So, we have we have authorization sitting there, but because it's authorized for one thing and we need to use it for something else, we have to introduce an ordinance to change that. So, for example, there was money for
repairs to the building down to this building down in the basement and work that needed to be done that came in cheaper than what we budgeted for. We our fire department, the air packs, we had submitted for a grant. Those grants have not been processed yet. They're
still in the in the in the um going through the process at FEMA. Not sure when that's going to happen, whether we're going to get to, but their air packs, you know, they're only good for 15 years or something. And they're expiring in September. So, there was
also going to be a 20% jump in cost. So the fire company authorized the purchase of the air packs. We are going to change our an ordinance an already authorized funded
debt to be able to cover the cost of our air paths. Okay. And I'll you'll see where the money is coming from and and what it's being to in the ordinance and you're I'm going to send that stuff out tomorrow. I'm assuming you can send me the draft. I'll get it out to you guys.
And then the other thing explain it better. And then the other thing I'll be adding on here are any appointments that we need. Correct. Correct. Yes. And anything else that comes up through this meeting? Yes. Okay. Any other questions on the agenda?
Not a question on the agenda, but before we move to the TA page, an update. Uh looking at the road work that's happening on Pins Highway at uh at Roberts, I thought we were moving the crosswalk. It looks like
it is moving. It looked like they rebuilt the crosswalk right in its existing location. I will go down and look. It was being moved. So it was on one side of Silvin. It's being moved to the other side of Silven. No, I realized that. that they they
redid the apron and Clancy driveway with with the new ramp and and and current grip pads like it looks like it's wrong. Yeah, I mean it's still in the same spot in the same exact spot. Yeah, it's not supposed to be at all. Wait, you were seen Robert
just past Roberts at the high school in Yeah. So, I mean it just they had rebuilt the apron with with accessibility, not just rebuilding their apron like it with crosswalk accessible. Yeah. Yeah. I'll go out and take a look and
then I'll follow you. I'm texting him now. Thank you. Yeah, because it was like the rat caught my eye going this way and then that caught my eye going that way. I said it stopped because traffic was behind me and they're ready to get on. I know they
did the bump out in the right section though. No, they did the bump out in the right section, but it just looked like they rebuilt the crosswalk ramp right still in the Clansancy driveway. I'll go I'll go take a look at it tomorrow, but I know that they the whole purpose of the bump out and stuff was also to Yeah, move the
Thanks. That's I just wanted to bring I didn't know you were wrong. Not sure. No, that's fine. Um PFH update. Um they haven't had a meeting. I think they're they have a meeting next week. Um but they do have a
new event that they want to hold. It is called Autumn Sounds. It is concert series music performances throughout various locations in the downtown including Federal Hall steps, the gazebo, Hatty Lane, Masonic, Temple Steps, Library Point, etc. Um,
and they may require a little BPW and little police present, but if this is not a street closure, they're also um working in conjunction with farmers market to offer a Thursday popup.
Um, so that there would be another event of the farmers market in addition to Saturdays to being on this particular Thursday night, which is something we think would actually deliver better and might be something I'm talking to them about in the future.
I'm actually set for this. I might explain it to me. It's gonna basically different venues throughout town will have different kinds of music so you can just pop around and listen to a little jazz, listen to a little this. And this is one of those events that we talked about like
musicfest didn't reoccur, but partnerships is responding to the loss to bring back a music event in that time frame. So, I'm excited for it, too. But that's how it's supposed to work.
Yes. So, you're okay with that? So, we'll also add that to the to the event stuff. All right. Now, we have the um discuss setting up semiquincentennial committee. Um
we are coming close to 2026. Um Joanna and I were talking and we think a small group to begin with to kind of like figure out what all the entities around town are doing and bring
it all together to say here. So we have a list of everything and then kind of have as as additional things are planned maybe create other subcommittees to help with that. bringing in an access larger number of people that want to be involved in helping with some events
like that. Um, but just trying to keep the main committee to kind of just, you know, a member or two from each of the organizations that are more than likely to hold something, you know, the library, the historical society, um, Lions, Rotary,
uh, King Tavern, you know, things of that. and that way trying to get that group together soon sooner rather than later. So, um and then also Joanna has a good connection with the County Historical Society and she's been involved with Revolution New Jersey.
Um so, keeping in connection with those to try and bring livestock to town also. Um if you're okay with that, we'll set up a meeting and reach out to these groups and say, "Hey, let's get together and get started." I do have one person who is interested in getting started off who want to
discuss it here and closed or pardon me. Yeah, I have two people who've reached out. Great. Which I think they're already connected to other organizations. So, I think might be a good fit. Okay, perfect. And I believe we have someone in the audience. I know we can't like jump, but we have someone in the audience who's also interested.
Okay. Anything else? No, it's a good idea. Okay. All right. Uh, next is professional appointments. Again, this is something so just to kind of go through what professional appointments and what
results are. Um, we put out for burough planner and we received proposals from Penoni and ERRI. We put out for redevelopment planner and received proposals from Penoni and ERRI. We put out for burough engineer received
proposals from Penoni, ERI, Gington and Vernick and CME. This time we put out for an engineer pool instead of just um a conflict special projects engineer. Um and we received a number of proposals including
AKRF, Henoni, ERRI, R&D, CNERS and Robert's engineer engineer group. Bond council we received proposals from McManaman Scotland and Bowman Parker McKay and Wentz Goldman and Spitzer and then for Burough Solister we received
one proposal from Ciano and Associates. So that is the public comment portion of that I am assuming we will go into close session to talk about how you want to proceed with making a decision on those appointments. Yes. Yes. Okay.
I I will only comment to say that that pool engineer will give us an opportunity to be able to see other people works possibly. Yes. And different engineering firms do better with other things. Um and and so having that flexibility of
being able to assign certain things to different engineering groups. Yeah, I I think it's a good idea. And for the sake of just putting on record, can you talk about why we ended up breaking out a burrow engineer from engineering pool and how there's if if
we were to draw a matrix of roles and responsibilities where you see the two fitting together. Absolutely. So your burrow engineer is an appointment you make. It can be an individual person or it can be a firm. Uh Adamfield has had Remington and
Vernick for we can't find records as to when the first one was. Let's just say it's decades. Um probably as long as they've been in practice or close to it. Um,
one when we started doing this process at some point time we realized that certain times people are conflicted out whether it be attorneys or um engineers or planners or something. Sometimes something comes up for planning board or zoning board specifically. So they
always go out for a conflict attorney or a conflict engineer. um that way if they're involved in something, someone's there to just step in and you don't have that conflict. So we initially put it out for conflict engineer
and there were certain services that while we were happy with the company we had overall for the majority of the stuff there is a couple of things that are their weak spots and we felt that
there would potentially be a firm that might fit those spots better. Um and so we switched it to conflicts special projects. Um so for example, CME has been that engineer for the past two
years. Um they were the ones helping us with the um design and uh design of fields specifically in and they are there helping us with the landfill clips. So, um,
we were looking specifically under that special projects portion for people who who were who had had more success more success in recreation field work than what we had experienced. That's why we initially
split it out. Um what you find is some specializing grants. Um you know some some have really great grant writers on on staff and pay a little more attention to grants than others do. Um you'll have some we ended
up using a completely different party when we were having mechanical issues because mechanic engineers are very different than civil engineers. Um, and we found someone that was incredibly helpful with a problem we had downstairs. Um, so you just find that
different when you start to branch out, you find that different groups are a little better in certain things than others. While your general engineer doing roads and answering problems and and you know, reacting with your interacting with your residents and being able to explain things,
you know, they do a great job of doing that. Um, but sometimes there's some other projects that you just want to be able to hand off to other people. Thank you. Yep. Um, so we're going to talk about that in
closed and then also we have appointments and vacancies that we'll discuss in close. There were two other items that you brought up that you wanted to talk about briefly. Um, we had on street a discussion about on street parking. We
had a tier resident reached out to you that was talking about enforcement. And it's interesting to hear the resin's philosophy because you you will have we've had when we have looked at this over the years over the past 20 years
there have it's been probably 5050 as to whether to keep that ordinance in place or not over the years all the times that we've talked about it the nighttime. Yeah. And we've always sided with the side to keep it in place because
potentially sometimes you're able to tell when you have strange cars in the neighborhood. But I think that so you brought it up. You want to talk about it briefly. So yeah, I need a little memory, Jol. Thanks. Yeah.
Yep. Is it that we were not enforcing it and they wanted us to enforce? So their belief was that we weren't enforcing it. Yes. Okay. Um I got an overnight license. So this was actually the second person.
One person approached me directly in person to bring this up and this was the second time. So it just felt really top of mind and I'm like let's just at least talk about it and have a unified answer back to residents like are we
going to enforce it strongly or should we not or is this the kind of thing where I think I I it's it's the intention to always enforce it. the issue
comes up that we can't necessarily enforce it every night depending on what occurs in the shift and if the officers are busy doing other things then that's not going to get enforced. So, um, my understanding is of the
squad, they're all kind of broken down into areas. You know, each squad says, you know, you've got four people and they each take a quarter of the town, you know. So, what happens is if this person's off that night on a vacation or something, that person's quarter of the town may
not be. And if the other three are tied up in an arrest or something else that's going on, then they're tied up with that and then they're not enforcing theirs. So it is a priority, but it is lower in the
priority than responding the calls. I think that's fair. Yeah. And do we agree that that's a unified answer from all of us? So the the night that there was the uh
car that was stolen on Washington, whatever it was a few months ago, I walked in the morning, like 5 in the morning from Lincoln to I forgot what my cross street was down all the way down and there were 100 cars
parked on either Washington or the cross streets. Now, some of those are um they have overnight parking because they they don't have they don't have driveways. So, um I I think it's one of those
things that we should make a push to resurrect that and say, as a reminder, there's an ordinance you can't have overnight parking and whatever else. And different times, different measures. You know, when I grew up in Hiden Heights, if you parked on the street overnight,
you were getting a ticket. Like, everyone knew it. It was just one of those things they enforced. That was a long time ago. Maybe things have changed over there. Um, you know, but I think it's also a good thing to put in place that, you know, if you know, replay the highlight reel a couple years ago where
we had a lot of the car thefts, that's an instance where we can really get the word out via the app, social media, stuff like that. say, you know, we're going to be real stickers for enforcing this and we want this done to make sure that it's easier to find the bad guys and you don't have
to pass an ordinance for it because it's already an existing ordinance. That's great. It just it's uh I hear what everybody's saying. It's definitely power specific specific. There's a lot of permits. Uh there's a
lot of college permits. college. You know, when we were having burglaries over in the Tabisto area, guess what? All of our manpowers over there going around the street, they weren't worried about writing parking tickets. They were worried about going up the street. So,
if all my manpowers over there, then on party, if you parked, you're not going to get tickets. It is, you know, it is a priority. We do write tickets, but they said they just got them. So, It's my guys know and and and they write
when they can and they know it's the priority but sometimes that priority changes if depending on manower working tonight let's just say you know let's say there's food to them and they get a domestic which we just had a
domestic they just arrested something so now we're off the street for three or four hours so that's not I don't want to say it's not a priority but in the greater scheme of We have to triage what we do and how we do it and and that is what sheriff
said on the lower end of the triage. So my guys know that you you know if they're not doing anything in the morning, you know, and it is it is something that Jason and I talked about. You talk about the lowhanging fruit. That's one of the things we talked about, right,
was putting a an emphasis back on that cars parked the wrong way on the street, things like that, you know, manpower specific. If the manpower is there, putting a focus on you'll see a lot of parks without purpose. We have a
a well, we have two lists downstairs, you know, extended. So, let's say you're doing redoing your roof or redoing your driveway to parking the street for two weeks. You can call in, put your car, you won't get a permit, but we won't write your ticket for your car or your
house. You can't park. So, there's that list. And then, you know, college, you know, everybody has a car. You know, my outside four cars, two kids, me and my wife. So, a lot of our driveways can't fit. So, when they're home for the summer, we have a summer colleges. They don't get a permit. They just go on the
list. So, we know not to write. So door, you know, everything has to close depending on what time of year it is. Plus, they have there's a call in where we have to keep track of because we also allow people correct have visitors over and things like that. So you know,
you're allowed seven time you're allowed to call in or go by internet. You're allowed to type in seven times a month. You get permission to do an overnight kiss. So that that's you know, so if somebody's walking by and doesn't see a garden or doesn't see a tinker, they automatically assume the cops aren't
doing anything. But that's might not be the case because could be one one of our three or four lists that you have permission. See, this is so informative. Like it's just informative. It's it's good information for me or for us to advocate
when residents do come up and have these, you know, kinds of comments. Now I know what to say. So I think that's great. Thank you. I think the other one's mine. We can move that to another and that's going to be really more
specific to each individual one. So, okay. Um, all I have and go into close session. I somebody made the motion. All good. Yes.
All right. So, we're going to be talking about uh lawsuit lawsuit potential settlement agreements. But before we go, Alan, so I'm going to offer retrospect. Do you have any questions before we go to post?
Um I'll try to brief and development wrap my head around here. Going back to the telecommunications plan. Uhu. Could you speak more on the burrow receiving quote unquote the rent like
how who's in this plan? It's the burrow and what other entities you have to pay someone to install? No. So the communication plan establishes
what our needs potentially are for wireless communication. Yes. As everybody ends up with more gadgets that are all attached to the internet, um the need becomes greater, then we are establishing an ordinance
which talks about how you go through the process of getting approval to put something in town, whether you're AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, or these new outside companies that are creating it and then
linking in these providers. Um, the ordinance establishes where they can be put and all of the requirements that you have to go through in order to be able to put them there.
If that is in a public rightaway on on public property, which in essence is either going to be the burrow and field or the school board of education, those providers or the third party that
puts the installation in place has to come up with a financial agreement with that entity to basically leasing space, leasing use of a space. So the plan is that just suggestions at this point.
So the plan is there recommendations on what we should follow. The ordinance is the implementation of that plan and then there will be something at a later date. Okay. where we will take bids in for true implementation of the
and then going back to Bmpro did and what's the last name in that J E S is there a number on the potential revaluation of the new developments?
Uh there might be I would have to go back and look at the financial the true assessment will not be developed until our tax assess until they're built and our tax assessor goes out. And then wait the potential tax dollars
paid over the life of that 25.4 million to the burough to the burough after the 5% must after sorry after the 5% service charge to the county. Yes. And then the pilot starts as the
building is far completed. What time? You get a certificate of occupancy. That's your that's your trigger. That's the mechanism that once there's a certificate of occupancy is issued then it triggers for the improvement. So then then you can begin to gauge the revenue
because it's a percentage of revenue. Okay. Yeah. And it's bu building specific. Three buildings. Three and four. Fair enough. Anything else? Okay. Motion to go into close. We're going to be discussing,
settlement, negotiation, litigation, and appointments. We sit for hours.