Evening everyone. In accordance with the open public meeting act, notice this meeting has been sent to the retrospect and posted on the bulletin board in the barrel hall. The first item on the agenda is the public comment period. Anyone who wishes to speak to the commissioners
and state your name and address for public comment. Anyone on Zoom like to speak to commissioners at this time? Please raise your hand. on Zoom. Okay. Uh seeing no public comment, moving on
to the next item on the agenda is a resolution to authorize making an appointment to the auxiliary police. We have a new auxiliary police officer. Um we pushed this up to tonight's meeting rather than next week's meeting because we're trying to use her for um all the
various events we have downtown. And this way we can use her a week earlier than we could. So, um, >> I'll make a motion to appoint auxiliary police offic. >> So, so there's two things. She'll come
in and get to sworn into Deanna and then the shortly thereafter in a couple of weeks they'll all be coming in for a swing >> at the end of the end of or the meeting in in January they all come in. >> So this way we can just get her started
as quickly as possible. Everybody approved not have any requests for federal property this this month. Um the next couple of items are a series of shared service agreements. The first of which
is the agreement with Tatis Stafford. Um we provided you the draft agreement. We are merging it back into one document. Um there is we're just finalizing the formula for the cost. It's a little easier when they're all together to be
able to come up with a cost a a formula moving forward annually with one cost. Um we just are finalizing that tweaking that a little bit. >> And Sharon said working with the mayors. >> Yes. I apologize.
So not uh yeah not the country club. Um so I anticipate that we will have that next couple days in Muslim >> there's three houses >> yes >> they are they are an official governing you know they do have an official government
>> just age. Um, so they had proposed something and when we worked out the actual cost of it, it ended up wasn't exactly um fair to all parties. So, we're just trying to work out the
exact formula so that we can put a formula in there and it will be allowed to questions on that. Please let me know. I anticipate that, but I have to get the as soon as I get the formula back from them and we've
worked it out. We can push it off until >> they got they got they taste Majority of the services are are public safety >> by minor public works you know so
um vegetative waste pick up le you know by field by stop we're going to maintain the street anyway The court is >> the court's part of Yeah, the court's part of our police. Our police have the court's always been included with our
police because our police um trash is listed, but we do not provide, you know, because we do, we only pick up trash or I it's listed as solid waste. Um, we pick up trash for the free businesses their trash and move. We just pick up
recycling. >> No, last year was we were adjusting um to a to a significant increase. Prior to that, it was an agreement that hadn't been in existence for decades. the shared service rules went into place. So we had to make changes that
and it was coming up with what those costs were. Now it just makes sense to kind of we've come up with a foundation of what those costs are. figure out what the escalator will uh any other questions on that.
Okay. If not, we're going to talk about the shared service agreement for the CFO. There is one more year left of of our agreement with uh for geese for Alex's services. Um what we have front of you is there's actually been an
increase in what he's been doing over actually going to also start coming into the office for three and a half hours every other week. Um dealing with a couple just little issues popping up here and there. So uh in doing so obviously with doing
additional work there is additional cost and compensation. So we're doing it as we're just amending the existing agreement because we want to try that out for a year and see if there has to be any others
or increases on forward for the I'll pay him. No, keep And there's just some there, you know, as we go through things, there's just some things that pop up and it's a little better to have someone there to be able to provide It's added to his to the amount that he
appointment ends uh 31st, 2020. is a position that is hard to find someone very good. Any other questions on that? Um the next one is a shared service agreement with the library. So now that
the library their third of a mill is actually turned into with because for a very long time hadn't provided them revenue that was more than what we were
a long time. But now that third of the mill has kind of caught up because we didn't give a has caught up and so their third of the mill is actually now that they have more revenue coming in from taxes
always done their payroll Alex to them and came to agree therapy processing. >> The audio keeps going in and out. I don't know.
Not talking. Uh >> closer. Try it. >> I'll just talk louder. >> Sounds good. Quiet. At the end of the day, I got to, you know, wake up. questions. Little look like you. Yeah, we can talk about I can talk about
some. So, um goes back long before me. Um Richard, my predecessor, uh his father, I believe, was a librarian. So, we had a soft spot for librarians. Um yeah, and
Doug Rashenberger was our prior librarian two librarians ago. Um they just there was they determined the services that were needed for the burrow. need any municipal library and
they funded it as such and so it would receive an increase and certain things were put into the budget and we were paying certain of that amount and as time changed we started adjusting some of that and
was and us paying for some you know expenses that may have been should have been ours as the building hours and in tight budgets. They weren't getting those, you know, to by law is so we got to a point where
we g we're planning on getting them every year we get a number from the state that tells us um we realized that it was more than than we were planning on budgeting. So we had to increase the budget to cover that. Um we had to increase the budget to
cover that to that number. And so each year thereafter because our ratables keep going up the amount they receive. They're paying their fair share of what the expenses are. There's no longer a need for us to supplement them on some
things. Does that make sense? Okay. Anything else? I didn't think to check and see if the speaker changed. >> Yeah. No, that's why we just checked to make sure that the microphone changed. >> Yep. >> You were loud enough that this these
things were making somebody's calling me a loudmouth. That's okay. >> All right. Public meeting. It's quite okay. was trying to stay awake. >> Yeah, that's exactly it. All right. Um, if there's no other questions on the are we okay with moving forward with the shared service agreement for the library
since that is brand new? >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> That would be exciting to get out of the pay for keep us having to do the payroll. >> We we're still technically doing the payroll but it >> in our new it Yeah. and it provides us a
revenue for doing that >> and they don't have any. So our payroll service allows for still the paper cut checks if they in writing they don't have any. Are they all direct depositors? >> Usually they follow excuse me all
policies that we create. Okay. It's just a matter of me letting them know that we have created that policy. >> Yeah. >> So we'll make sure we do that. Okay. Um, Maple Shade, uh, it is the end of the, I
believe, five-year agreement with Maple Shade for construction code official, uh, and inspectors, and it is time they would like to renew. What they are offering is to renew for an addition, it was a four-year agreement, sorry. Uh, an additional four
years with 1 and a.5% increase for each year. Now, that money goes directly the the shared service agreement is the majority of that money goes directly to the two employees that are doing the work, but there is a
um percentage in there that comes to us to help offset our general costs. Um so that increase would be on that whole amount. So our portion that we would be getting to offset uh doing the shared service gets an increase and the
employees get a bump. And we still have the capacity to sell to offer the shared service. >> Yes. Because it's hours over and above beyond what we're doing what the employees are doing here. So this is this is additional time those employees are working beyond
the hours that they are scheduled to work here. So say for example Ed Ed's scheduled to work here um I believe 32 hours a week. the time that he puts in is over that 32 hours. So that's nights, early mornings,
weekends, whatever he has arranged for with them. >> Okay. >> It doesn't impact what he's doing for us at all. >> Any other questions? >> Uh so there was an issue that we addressed uh just recently which I think
is actually good for the contractors and um it it applies to inspections. Um it was raised by one of the contractor that does a lot of work in town. I I don't know if he lives in town too. Not that it matters but raised an issue about basically what he was looking for is a
time to schedule with Ed particularly if they're doing a a sidewalk cut. So because you know he was asking if the liability transfers to him or to the burrow someone can't get out there. So what he was trying to do is basically allow for can they fill in that portion
of the sidewalk put a board on top of it and schedule with ED for an inspection of the remaining work. uh I forget what the minor and something there was a terminology for it that um you can enclose that area on the sidewalk,
>> make it safe and then you have to still have it exposed within 3 ft of the house. So he can then go out he you can schedule time he can go out there and inspect that that area where it terminates with the house. So that's the only like rumbling I've heard of late and that was resolved and I got a thank you email from the contractor saying
that he had asked about this in the past and couldn't get resolution and greatly appreciated it. So >> and and there's two issues there. You know the issue with this particular thing is we now have a it's it's been on the books for about I'm going to say 18 months. It might be
two years. I forget entirely. um we have to we have to do all inspections within 72 hours. So the problem is contractors often call an inspection in before the work's completed. They are not supposed to be calling an inspection
in until the work is completed. So, if they call inspections in ahead of time and then we go out there and the work's not completed, then our person's been, you know, it's taken an inspection slot that should have been used for something
else because we are already, I will tell you, the office is incredibly busy. Um, they have already done 3,200 inspections this year where they did 3,200 all year last year. It's
we are constantly increasing in the work that's going on in that office rather than decreasing in any way. So which is amazing >> and a little ridiculous. >> Yeah, at some point you would think it would slow down.
Um but yeah and he has we have brought in you know this is an office where the state is going to have a problem because the people doing the work and the people trained to do the work are disappearing.
Um you know once upon a time it was there's there's two qualifications to be able to take the classes. You either have to be uh a licensed engineer or I believe you might just have to have the degree of an engineer. You just have to have a degree. You don't have to be a
licensed engineer. You have to have the degree of of engineering. Um or you have to have been a a contractor of some sort in order to be able to take the classes and pass the test and get the licenses.
So when economies would be bad, contractors would switch to doing this and then or towards the end of their they start to get older and they would switch to doing this so that they now have a pension and benefits and things like that. Well, people aren't switching
and people aren't coming into the field. So Ed is probably one of the youngest ones out there right now. You have most municipalities are and he's in four different towns, us and three other towns. So
the people that we have as the other officials and the other inspector, most of them are semi-retired or retired that have come back to work and are doing the job. And again, the age level of a lot of the people doing this are
the retirees rather than any younger folk. So if you don't have people taking the licenses and you don't have people able to do the work, you're not going to have any. Plus, it becomes a shortage. So the people actually able to do it, your costs are increasing significantly
because there's fewer people doing it. Kind of like a finance officer. So, it's it's a problem um that they're going to have to figure out how to expand that and and get the pool bigger um because you
there's just nobody out there to do it. >> So, what is the logistics of the shared service agreement? Like when do we know like is it just about Ed? Like >> it's Ed and an inspector. So, um Ed is the construction official. He's signing
off on the permits. um and doing the reviews and then our other employee um Keith I believe it is is actually going out and doing the inspections on the projects. >> This is here or there. How big is
>> I do not I think it's a little smaller than us >> populationwise. >> Yeah, I think it is. >> They have more land though, don't they? >> More landm. >> So they're bigger than us >> population. >> Yes. Oh, wow. I thought it was smaller. Okay.
>> Yeah, >> definitely more land. >> Um, they were in a position where they had problems in the office and needed to change personnel under state re under state review required them to change personnel.
>> 32 hours. >> Yes. Any other questions on that? Are we okay to move forward with that with the renewal of it? Okay. >> Okay. The next one is to talk about the shared service agreement with the county
for unhoused individuals. Um, >> is this what Collinswood just did? >> No. So, Collingswood already has an agreement with um what the the the nonprofit
>> VA. VA. Thank you. um they already have they're already part of a shared service through the state with VA. What the county managed to do was get funding through the state to be able to provide that services to all the other municipalities in Camden County that
were not part of that group that were able to do it through the state. But the the minuscule difference between it is that instead of being given a person who's assigned to us, we our
number goes to the office and then they distribute it and and work through who's going to respond to us, who's available to respond to us. >> They're not a shared service. They're a member. We're shared servicing. Yes, that membership. >> Correct.
Um, so this gets us into the um Yeah, my brain is just fried now. >> Does the iPad get the iPad like the um >> my whatever. Yeah. Where like you can
like engage in real time where they can use the a police officer can use the iPad to like discuss in real time with someone on the opposite end of that about the state of the you know the person in question whatever the case may be. So um you know it's it's an
additional resource. It's like tele medicine but for services to summarize it and >> we were on the call again >> the access into with the iPad is into the system that is tracking everybody. So we now have the ability to enter into the system that's tracking everyone and
>> call >> yeah it's the one that you weren't able to to attend. >> Yeah. Um our guys have already received the training. I think they've already have the iPads. Um so they're all set. It's just a matter of passing the
agreement. Um I did have a couple of questions that I that I, you know, went into on on what, you know, the agreement meant. Um it would mean that while we were operating the agreement, we would not be able to move forward with any new ordinances
um in any way that may >> criminalize my business. I mean, that's what they said on the call. It's it's what they said on the call, but also but trying to explain what exactly that means. There's nothing you can put on the ordinance which is going to make any new offense a criminal liability. So,
you know, we couldn't do the no sleeping downtown. um that you can't do the public urination or defecation in town, but we are able to continue to um deal with the um unappropriate behavior,
things like that which are already on the books. So, we're able to continue with that. If you have trespassing, we're able to continue the trespassing. Um >> second part about the >> So, the cost, so they were >> before we go to the next thing.
>> Uhu. uh like I don't read this to mean any new. >> I specifically asked and that's what they said. We're not allowed to implement anything new. >> So 154-1K and I was saying even though it's the
identical one, >> this is for uh this is for >> Yes. because because it would be a different space >> than what's on the books. >> And so let's say we're you know leverage
that identical language uh that applies to all residents and it's all rel. So like is this would that be specifically criminalizing homelessness and poverty or no? It's because
we don't have the the look is so we have it on the books right now where you can't do it in our parks. It is not any other area of town. It's not in the residential section of town. It's not in the business district of town. So if we were to expand that to any other area in town, whether it be
the residential or the business district, that is considered something new. Even though it is language we have on the books for one location. We're not going to hold it against you. That's a law that you already have. >> So the one for the parks, correct? But if we were to try and expand that to
include any other areas, >> but like if we agree to this, they're not going to come back and say, "Oh, but you have this, so we'll take money back." >> No. No. What's on the books already, we're allowed to enforce anything that's already on the books. >> But legally speaking, I don't know if
that language targets I mean, it says in here criminalizing homelessness and poverty. I don't know that language does that >> so much as good or discipline and they they can say well we typically mean this but like you know >> legal standpoint not I'm not an attorney
but >> that's their impression because I specifically stated that in an email you know this is what we have on the books in other locations we were looking to expand it here we do not currently have it on the books for this area what is is that considered something new
and the answer was Yes. >> Would it be safe to say that if we wanted their opinion on something new, we they give it? >> Yes. >> We can move forward. >> Yes. >> You were going to say something about cost. >> Oh, going back to the cost then. Um, so
there's a section in there where they talk about the cost. If you have opioid money, they would like to be reimbursed the cost of the services um for folks staying in a hotel or in a shelter. So, you know, it's and they
stay in there two weeks. So, my initial question was, you know, what is the two weeks an arbitrary number? What happens if somebody gets up and and walks out? Um they said it would be whatever the actual um time that they spent in there. They're saying two weeks. It could be
longer than two weeks. They're saying two weeks because, you know, two weeks is a is a good amount of time to at least try and get the person used to being off the street and potentially connected to the services they need. So,
they're asking and the fee when the person is put in either the shelter or the hotel, the fee will be known upfront what it is per night. We've already kind of earmarked our our money to a different
>> we we have enough to do both for at least for a year. >> And speaking of that, >> that's not the discussion, but it's discussion of the topic but not of the agreement. >> Um, has the council reached out to do hiring on on their behalf?
>> Let me get any questions on this and then I'll fill you in on that. So then what is our police force expected to do? >> Our police force is expected to participate in the program using the iPads and reaching out to VA.
>> They still respond and then VA will come in and support them through >> Yes. >> steps. So like would our police be required to to shuttle that person to shelter or does VA do that? >> No, we would have to do that. >> We still have to do that. Um,
>> they're helping us with assessment, >> not of of on the ground. It's kind of like they're they're the ride of we're still the responsible party for custodial services. >> Yes.
>> And also um it's the so there is also a countywide code blue facility. Last year it was in Barington. Um they are looking to change it to a different location. >> Yes. >> Yes. To where?
>> Lakeland. Lakeland. >> Lakeland. >> No, Lakeland. >> Land. >> Um the key is what they're you know what the focus is is is um that shelter would still accept anyone on the code blue
nights. Um but we are expected to take them back the next day if it was someone that we put over there. Um, they're also part of this agreement is ensuring that we just don't pick people up and drop them off in Camden, which we weren't doing anyway. So,
>> was anybody doing that? >> Yes. >> In the olden days, yes. >> Oh, sure. No, I'm sorry about right now because they were very specific about that. >> I in the fact that they spell that out. That would be my guess that yes, that is still happening.
>> Okay. Um, two questions. contact person as identified Jason. >> Uh, no. I believe it's Danielle right now. >> Okay. Somebody on the police. >> Yes. Yes. >> I think Jason had the training though, too.
>> I think they're all having the training. Okay. >> Because they're all using, but there's one person to be the main contact to be notified about training and and things like that. But I believe all of them are actually getting the training on the iPads because it it's not going to be that one person always work always
working and the only one that can use the iPads. They're all going to be have access to use of the iPads. >> Gotcha. So, one of the things they were really clear about is that uh New Jersey is pretty unique that they push these services to the county level instead of at state level. Uh because we have so
many counties in New Jersey that are very different. Uh is state funding part of you said state funding is part of that? >> Yes, the money that they got for this is from the state. >> But that makes sense because the state just says here's the money they're the
equity and the county the sweat equity. Uh one of our big problems and this doesn't address it is is since we are responsible for the body wherever we transport them. Uh case in
point, last week, was it week before we transported a person and we took a few shifts of overtime uh because the person was in um physical I mean in in chemical intoxication. So we couldn't do anything
with them in any of these services until they uh which took a very very very long time and cost us a bunch of money to do that. um where does this service help with that at all?
>> So in that particular s uh situation that person was going to county jail >> and that's benchmark >> that's but that's the difference. So that's not part of this. This is for the folks that are downtown on a cold night
or show up in the police station and say I'm homeless and I need a shelter. um which we've had some of um you know this is this is those types of folks that situation that you're talking about there is no solution here that helps address that
>> but you're missing the other person that that IPAC triage and they say this person is in some sort of crisis situation and if they're intoxicated or on drugs or something like that and we take them somewhere. The difference is
if we are doing a police action, I'm not sure that we'll be that's something we can ask them. I'm not sure that if we are arresting someone, >> I don't think it's arresting. I think it's like the person is saying yes, this person is having a crisis situation and
but they're also on something using something whatever. >> But his particular situation, we were doing a police action. >> Yes. And that's why we are not able to transfer that over to someone. >> This flip is the standard operating
procedure to do the arrest first or take care of their physical mental well-being first. I know it's hairs, but it's not right. One would trigger these services as an outreach and the other one is we're a
wrestler first. I mean, and and this is purely selfish. cost us a lot of money. >> I I think it would depend on the situation and what we're arresting them for. >> Fair enough. This was a bench warrant. Yeah, correct. >> Yeah. End up with another task plus a bunch.
>> A bench warrant self. >> A bench warrant. It's possible to maybe use this system first and then allow someone else to deal with it. I'm not sure. I'd actually just I'd have to ask Jason whether if they know of a bench warrant whether they are able to not follow through. I don't know the answer
to that, but that's something we can talk through with them. Um, but again, if it's a police >> I'm just saying that that would be awesome. >> Yeah, but if it's a police action, you know, we we do not have the ability to turn that over to somebody else.
>> Sorry, go ahead. >> I was going to say my understanding from something that Jason said was if there's a bench warrant and they are aware of it, they have to go through that. >> That's what I would expect. >> We already knew that, right? Right. >> Figured maybe we could do it at the end of when they sobered up, >> but when they sober up, it's not
necessarily that they are going to be with us. >> Oh, for we're taking them somewhere too soon. >> Right. >> In this case, it was to the hospital. >> Right. >> Then we don't have a hospital. >> Right. >> Um maybe this goes to Dave's point a little bit too. Like on the call, Dave
seemed to um introduce this as like, hey, this is our first version of like trying to do something, but then we're going to build on top of it. The reason I say that is because we've acknowledged that homelessness is a regional issue. So like this is a great start and I think we need a little bit more from the
county. Um you just said we the different towns issue that we ended up picking up. So like I think that's a great place for the county to coordinate. Anyway, so like what was the following when they introduced this? Like was it like first step and then let's do more together and we'll work with you kind of
thing. The tone was we were able to get funding from the state to help offer the rest of the municipalities the services that a few already have. >> Right. And that was closed, right? They were clear about that. That program's closed. >> Yeah. So, it's it's I I think
>> I got the feeling this was cobbled together rather quickly. >> Yeah. >> Oh, sure. Yeah. I I think this is because because I mean realistically all of the towns on this side of the Walt Women Bridge are going to get hit, you know,
in the next, you know, and hard, especially >> by that. >> Yes. >> No, no, no. They talk about statistics where homelessness is growing rapidly. So, I I think it's one of those things that they're trying to figure out how to
address it and the only thing they can do is, you know, try to step in with something initially. Now, whether as they work through this, you know, they figure out something works or doesn't work and they can get additional funding to do stuff, then you may see things
expand. But right now, they're just trying to address the emerging situation. How long is this bind us? >> There's a 60-day out. >> 60 day out. Okay. So, maybe 90 days. >> Yeah. You know what? I didn't >> Yeah, I did. I didn't look I I just
asked me because in the conversation, you know, this is a good service, especially as it's getting cold. >> Uh it ends in 2028. Two years. >> It's two years. >> It's a two-year agreement. 31st.
>> Yep. I wasn't count I was taking the six away from the eight and not counting not not adding. >> Yeah. >> And coming at the end of any calendar year 60 days. >> All right. But every year we get out. >> Yeah. >> It's worth a try. >> Yeah. It's worth a try. So um having
said that then getting back to the council of churches. So, I met with um the head of the council of churches a couple of weeks ago and it is taking them a little longer to put the shared service agreement into, you know, to
create it um than they were anticipating and um believe you were going to reach out to some some folks. >> Going to see him at the uh Washington Eagles game tonight. >> Okay. He's So Frank's going to reach out to some folks to try and help assist them in getting that done.
>> Right. In the meantime, what I said to them was we could come to an agreement where we hire the person. The person is our employee. Um >> benefits in >> Yes. It's 10 hours a week. It's it's 10
hours a week initially um to be expanded to potentially 20 in the future. um that we could hire the person and then transfer the employee over to the nonprofit once the nonprofit's up and running. Their concern was who does the hiring? I said, I'm more than happy for
your group to be part of the hiring process since they're ultimately going to be your employee. I just need to be participating in part of that and to attend your meetings so that we know what is going on overall in the agreement moving forward. And they're paying income from the we
>> correct. >> Correct. And the metrics have to match the the metrics that I have to report to the state in the opioid um money settlement report that has to be done annually. So
what like why state paper? Um, they didn't they need an attorney to do the paperwork for them. >> That >> Yes. So, we're working on getting them an attorney that will do it for them. >> Attorneys aren't just legal. Attorneys
are also arbitrary between all these different entities that have opinions, right? And so, they can help arbitrate all >> It's, you know, it's it's creating the bylaws. Yeah. States >> amongst the Yes. It's creating the bylaws. It's, you know, coming up with
the initial language. I forget the name. They came up with a name for it. Um, they have, you know, they have purpose and everything all detailed out. They just need someone to do the legal paperwork for it. So,
>> so there's a program. >> Yeah, they Yeah, they and and it's fine. Um, so they are uh so we're gonna I told them that we would look to try and see if we could find someone for them. >> And Frank's said he has some people he can look at.
>> Space has already been allocated in church. >> Correct. Space is already allocated. Um, all of that is fine. It's just so I would anticipate um I just have to hear back from the woman from the state on the metrics. I anticipate that that we'll be
advertising this shortly. So hopefully to be up and running early January, >> mid January. >> I don't know what I had >> behind. Well, again, because I said we can do it and so you put it out there, you know, they want to sit, you know, do
I said, you know, we'll all sit in on the interviews and do the interviews and, you know, come to a decision and and move forward. So, >> are we allowed to be part of the interview? >> Not all three of you. Not unless we wanted to call it a meeting. >> Two of you, >> not two of you.
>> Volunteers treat you. >> Up to the three of you. >> I'm gonna ask my friend tonight. I don't know if he's gonna say yes. >> No. And if he doesn't, just let me know and then we'll we'll, you know, >> why don't you ask? >> I'll do it concurrently.
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know what? I also >> So, just ask and if we have a multitude of people, wonderful. We can figure out, you know, who wants to do it. Mine's on the board at Christ the King. So that's why I was thinking that >> there's an opportunity there, but um
>> it's a generous holiday season. >> Now's the time to >> with an attorney. >> Now's the time to answer. >> Just >> I don't think attorneys celebrate holidays. >> No, but if they have to get their proono in before the end of the year, don't you have somebody you have to do? Yeah. So you're there.
>> Santa falls. Banks is looking for >> put marbles on the roof. >> Why s That's why s drives an expensive car so you can chase the ambulance. >> Nothing to do with them. Don't like chasing to the side.
>> No. All right. Any other questions on this? Are we okay to move forward knowing everything? Are we okay to add this on as a resolution to approve? >> It's not ideal, but it's practical. >> Okay. >> Okay. Well, >> yeah, I'm okay with it. I
hope it works. >> We all hope it works. >> Well, I hope it helps. There's no such thing as working when it comes to homelessness. There's helping and not helping, right? I hope it's helpful because it's tying our hands a little and so we're trading we're robbing Peter
to pay ball here. We're taking a little bit of our own thing on leap of faith with the county level knowing that whatever we do doesn't solve anything. It just helps us. So I hope >> okay.
Uh moving on to the next item. Notice the one metric that they do not have is because I asked it on the call was uh actually reducing number of homeless in the family. >> Yes, that was on VA's metrics. Correct.
It's because they again they're getting the money from the state. So they have metrics that they have to report to the state. So, >> and they didn't think even at the league they didn't think that homelessness was going down
>> as a regional issue. >> Well, probably not. >> Especially with things getting more expensive. >> But I can tell you from my day job can get anything. >> No.
Uh the next item to talk about is is uh the professional professional services proposals that we have received. We received proposals for affordable housing housing council, affordable housing planner, auditor, labor council, redevelopment council, risk management
and insurance broker. Um there were a number under there. Uh we've we've highlighted >> we've highlighted the the folks that so we received for affordable housing council uh to put it on the record we
received proposals from me given Marro Law Mason Griffin and Pearson Mason Griffin and Pearson is our current um professional affordable housing planner we received from Penoni CME Associates Clark Kaitton Hints Clark Kaitton Hint is our current affordable housing
planner auditor we only receive received from Hulk McNocs. They are our current auditor. Labor council we um received proposals from Marro Law and Brown and Connory. Brown and Connory is our current uh labor council. Redevel development council we received from Mey
Given. Maro Law, McMenan and Scotland and Bowman. McMenan Scotland and Bowman are our current redevelopment council. Risk management insur and insurance broker we received from Fairview Insurance Agency Connor Strong and Professional Insurance Associates. Professional Insurance Associates is our
current broker. Um, do you want to have discussions in close session regarding your appointments or do you know which direction you would like to take? >> Questions before like meeting I don't want to extend the meeting for the sake
of like maybe close session conversations. I'd love to hear about performance of these um professional services and whether we're satisfied with the performance. >> We need to cover. >> Sure. We have to go. We have appointments to talk about in close session anyway. So, we can continue this
in close session. Okay. Uh next item on the agenda is to discuss requests for support resolution for from AARP. We talked about this briefly at the last meeting. Um, this is one of those situations where discussing the general idea of this before talking
about this specifically, this example specifically, we will receive over the course of your four years a variety of requests from folks that say we want you to support this. Um, in the past, the commissioners as a whole have not
typically done resolutions of support. Um, one either because they may be of different opinions on the situation, two because honestly those resolutions have very little impact. Um, three because you may have more items that you want to
talk about when you make a personal uh flight about it. So in some situations or in mo most situations in the past, we have left it so that if the commissioners feel strongly about an item that has been requested, they will
personally reach out to your representative to make the opinion that they should or shouldn't do whatever is being requested. You, this is the first time we've received one for the three of you. So this is in front of you to make decisions of do you want these things to come to you so that you can make a
decision as a group whether you want to do this resolution or do you want to stick to the old policy where if you have an opinion you'll do it personally. Uh, one question about doing it personally. Can you when you do it, is it like Frank Troy or Frank Troy?
How does a commissioner fit? All right. >> Office of course. >> Uh, so I would say me personally, I I would like to keep status quo. Um, just because there's um I don't think any have come across the time in the time that I've been a
commissioner, we've received uh wind farms pro and con. uh LNG U because there would be trucks down 95 >> this and one other and I just think it it
turns into a debate and in some cases like very personal where you think well wind farms doesn't you know affect the people of Hadenfield unless maybe they have a sharehouse that would be looking at the wind farms and they would have different difference of opinion which wouldn't affect you know your relationship with people down and that
sort of thing. I I think in my personal opinion, just steer clear of it because it's just, you know, introducing something that, you know, either doesn't affect the town necessarily or it does, you know, kind of tangentially, but, you know, for for reasons that
don't necessarily appeal to or apply to the town. In the last month, we've gotten the AP request. Uh, and we've also gotten the make solar easier request. Uh, you know, just from our conversation that we had
the other week, I respect that gentleman from any town resident and just said, you know, as a a governing body, we're not endorsing, you know, free to endorse, but I made it really clear in the conversation. It's commissioner side.
never endorse a certain debate. But if anything personal, >> that's totally fine. Okay. >> If that's both of you feel that way, I'll um I'm happy to support you in that. And then I mean my personal thoughts on this. I'm in a strange phase
of life where nursing homes are unfortunately something I am researching and I don't understand why it's insanely expensive where it's $9,000 a month. And so I want this for my sake. So I can understand how that uh finding is
happening. So I'm in support of this personally, but I understand that as a B commission, we do not want to do this. So So I support that. >> Okay. Just so we have direction moving forward. >> It keeps us going. >> Yep. >> Yep.
>> I am going to have to reach out because otherwise the guy's going to reach out to me. with the the gentleman that that uh sent me this information. Shall I just tell him to reach out to you directly? >> Yeah, that's >> okay. The next item is to discuss gas
powered leaf blower regulations. >> So, I did a little background on this. I received a lot of complaints on this from residents. I imagine you have in your past. I'm sure you have in the school. >> He's talked about that before. favorite.
>> I mean, I can cut and paste the emails that I'm sending. >> Um, so this came up again, the environment commission, and so I encouraged them to do some research into what counts are doing um and whether or not we can take some of those ordinances
and apply it here. So they did some research and um seems like there we have some options, but there for with every policy there are consequences, right? like if we do pass this, what does that mean for the landscaping companies? Is there another way to do like is it
expense? I don't know. You you get it. There's a lot to think about. But um so they are pitching something and I did encourage this. So if it doesn't go well, you can put it on me. >> Do you want me to weigh in?
>> Yeah. Please. So uh I mean so first and foremost I think there was some merit to it and this there was a person uh on environmental commission that was like laser focused on this years ago and then when it didn't seem like it was going to
like kind of paint root it you know he he left the uh you which is fine. So a couple things here. One is there's 560ome municipalities in New Jersey. I think maybe four or five have adopted an
ordinance of varying degrees of like full-time to to partial time. Um uh there like Morristown adopted it at one point and there was an article just like April this past year about how no
one is enforcing it. So they adopted it and and you know and can't enforce it. Um there are a couple other towns. I think Princeton is one and Morristown is the other one. Uh both of those are uh Tree City USA towns
which is actually pretty significant because there are very few in New Jersey. I don't think there are any in South Jersey or maybe there's one in Burlington County or something like that but >> well us >> but yeah us and like yeah but I I think like maybe no others. So like your your tree canopy really kind of weighs into
this very heavily. Uh we adopted ordinance probably two or three years ago about uh both the sound level and duration of leaf killing which was kind of you know basically an effort to to move this in a positive direction. Uh if you look at like the cost of these
things, like still makes a uh like a commercial battery powered unit and that costs like $1,900 or something like that, whereas like a still gas powered equivalent cost like around 600 or something like that. So it's like, you know, three or 4x the
cost and it and questionable whether uh it can keep up with it because you figure you have to like always be charging batteries and like so you know a good question would be for for for Bill things have changed. I know in previous discussions we couldn't keep up
with you know our public works department couldn't keep up with our level of work at the rate at which we're doing it leaves. So, you'd be in a situation where you'd probably make something more ownorous for homeowners
uh and uh and landscaping companies and stuff like that than we ourselves are able to do. Or you would just push out your leave collection duties a lot longer than where it is today where you would then get complaints from residents for like, you know, how come it's February, you're still collecting
leaves? Um, and uh, so and then the final thing is that I think the state was going to pass something, but they pushed it out to like 2026. >> So like my my mis test is like if you're ever really going to measure the state's
level of commitment, if it's gotten pushed out to the point where it's passed the current administration and it's up the next one to vote on it, that tells you all you need to uh, all you need to hear. So if they do pass it, that that's going to, you know, kind of push in its place. I think that if we
were to go down this this direction, uh it is probably, you know, the the uh I don't think we would really be able to keep up with what we have and the the law of unthe consequences of thinking we're doing the right thing when we find out it is not, you know, it is the wrong
thing. You know, one thing I'd be interested in really is that if the, you know, is to experiment with one of those leaf blowers, uh, the battery powered ones to see if they are any better than they were a few years ago because I I haven't kind of kept track of this probably a couple years, two years or
so. Maybe just compare and contrast to see what you're getting out of them and just say, you know, for these you get, you know, I I have a leaf blower that's probably 24 years old. It's gas powered and it's it's bulletproof. Like it's never going to die. I don't I've never even changed spark plugs in it. So like
you know they >> we have a battery one >> okay >> it dies. >> Okay all the time battery. >> So I'm a more practical person. Um battery power ones sound great. They're not necessarily great for the
environment because then you just transfer the issue of battery. You know, we spent I I I I spent dinner with a lobbyist who's begging us to uh and towns through the GIF to really educate people to not throw away lithium
batteries because the Berlin burrow lost two trash lost burned to the ground because you know they they crack lithium but can't put fire you can't put out burnout. Um >> so that's a huge issue. Anything that you they're not succulent so they just
take longer. So you're it might not be as quiet, but it increase the duration, like I said, not just duration of the pickup season, but of the cleanup itself. Uh we're not an HOA or a barrel. So um doing those quality of life things, it's
it we have to be a little bit more judicious on how we enforce them because just like if we accuse somebody of a meeting, we have to prove it. That's whether it's being done, that's calibrated, and certified. We don't have sound equipment to to actually say,
"Yeah, that's too loud." Your phone or your watch saying you're in a loud environment isn't, you know, legally binding. So, we could pass law to make you feel good, but it's not enforcable. I said, "I'd rather tackle littering, you know, more than they did because that's another quality of life issue
that's much worse." Um, you'll see a post that I'm going to be coming out about tiny little liquor bottles. Surprised don't have good day with that statistics on the ground anywhere in 1050. That's besides them, right? That's minor cross the and and speeding and rolling
stop signs. Like we we there are other things that are also on the books that we can't enforce that are quality of life issues. Why just add to the burden of people saying it's our job? I'd rather go back to there are days when you can't do it. Uh you know, and Sunday used to be sacri when it came to the
only kind of off day. Uh even on Saturdays we pick up trash as a burrow. Um we do spot clean up the leaps, you know, when we're catching up. We always do the downtown. So it' be hypocritical to say like can't do that kind of work on the weekend. Most of the time it's the only time that you can do it. But there could be I could make an argument.
You might not agree that maybe Sunday is a day that you know it's just lower the Sunday, you know, to just have one day a piece. Um or get out the old rates if if it rains on Saturday. That sucks. But uh that that would be the only thing I can
even consider would be day type of mortgage because otherwise just have a merch association. That's not >> this is good. What else? What else do you think would work? >> What else do you think would not work too? These are both helpful. >> What would not work
>> to help this? Um, >> also I'm putting you on the spot like if you think of something later just >> out this is helpful in thinking through like >> Sure. Well, there's also the arguments for everyone who thinks that you should put all your leaves in your bed. There's
another person that really likes a pristine lawn like the they like the look of your people take pride in different things and all of those take effort and costs a lot to stay in this town. Your primary job is working and you know providing a living for your
family. Deliver the time that you have. You want to do any chore quickly. If a leaf blower makes it quickly, what's next? Gas mowers. Go back to the hill mowers. You know, pry that one out. I pulled that hand. I love mine. Right.
So, and battery powered funds >> just in three properties in town. One four properties in town. Two were over half an acre. was one's an eighth, right? It's so I'm just being a little selfish here. Take away the gas power and then
never finish. >> Well, that's say we have a really bad snow, you know, gas powered, you know, snowblowers. >> Yeah. >> I I I know my husband has, you know, been known to, you know, on a snow day
to bring his out, which is big, and do the entire sidewalk for the entire block. And yet he's never made it to Windsor. >> I said the picked him up. I could have picked up >> the block. He didn't say he did the town. He did the block.
>> Saddest day of Frank in his life. >> Yeah. Across the street had Mark, too. We would do the whole block up. >> Yeah. And somebody else did it one year when he was working. >> So, >> it's just it's a matter of it's really
enforcement. I mean, the hardest thing is enforcement because when you have landscapers in and they have five people on their crew and they come in and they're done in 20 minutes, you know, by the time somebody calls, by if an officer is available to go over and respond to them, but it's not the officer because under our noise
ordinance, it's the county. So now you got to call the county and ask them to bring the machine out because it's got to be validated on the machine. They're the ones who do our noise for us. Now, you got to get a county employee to get here. And there's no way that a county employee is going to get here in the
time that before they finish it up. >> And it's 6 feet from your from your property line. So, six feet from your property line. Most leaf blowers or all like that equipment is underneath the vegetable level anyway. So, they probably won't even show up. >> It depends on how close it is to the
machine. If they're at the front yard and they're within six feet, it may. But if they're in their backyard, they may not. to life in pursuit of happiness. Guaranteed land of degree your pursuit of happiness might be in complete conflict with somebody else's. Uh we had the same thing every time we have a run
for somebody that complains. Yeah. It says I couldn't get out of my driveway. We just had one complaint. Couldn't get out of my driveway 5K. My daughter missed basketball practice. The woman who uh who organizes it was really upset called me and I said, "Pat, think about
it. How long was the race?" She said, "18 minutes." I said, "How long how long must it was a little longer?" >> How long did the did the horde have to go past the house? I said, "No more than like 10 minutes past somebody's house. If that person was 10 minutes late to
basketball practice, sorry. If somebody missed it completely, that was their decision, you know." And she sort of understood that and said, "Sure, I get that." The road wasn't closed. You couldn't back out of your driveway because there were a bunch of people running by. Once people weren't running by, you could back out of your thing. You'd go around the stansion and off you go. Everybody does it. So it sounded
like more of an excuse for a really cold snowy morning than it was for the five pig running past their ass. >> And this really became more of a problem in 2020 when all of a sudden people are now working from home >> and seeing all the times. >> So it's like when you were in your
office, you never knew this happens. It's not as if the practice has changed. It's just where people are spending their time has changed. >> And landscapers are always there to Shar's point. Now you're home. Usually people would leave the landscapers and >> you wouldn't see them. >> You wouldn't know they were there.
>> And you might invest in a better screen. You might invest in light ring to make yourself look better while you're working from home and it's really conference calls. Invest in something else. >> Headphones. >> Oh, invest in headphones. Invest in, you know, any some sort of noise cancelling or sound masking or anything. I mean, if
it truly is a problem for that long. I mean I in my apartment building every week they're right under my window for about 20 minutes happens to be on a call but I'm always on and I say oh and I ride the mute button I'm fellow
developer and I put my headphones on here this is practical this is you're it's good to hear all of this and >> I'm happy to share this back with the envir commission so we can really think through how we want to proceed. Well, that said, the environmental commission
can encourage >> people to rape. They can encourage, you know, putting leaves at beds instead of piling them up on the law. You know, they can encourage a lot of things since their perview, but enforcement, writing, writing uh ordinances on our behalf that
we can consider. Yeah, I that's almost a bridge too far a little bit. Unless you ask them, if you ask them, hey, could you help me? I want to introduce an ordinance. Can you help me? Right. That's one thing. Them provided it to you as a >> No, no, it wasn't like that. It was what
have other towns done? Is that something we can incorporate here? Let's do some research. So, that's one distinct. >> Sure. >> Yeah. And and like Frank said, there's 264 municipalities. If only four have adopted this. >> No, I think it's 500.
>> 560. >> Oh, I'm sorry. 560. 56. >> It's like 566 and merge. It's like 565 or 594. >> It was 567 when I took my licenses. >> Couple way to Princeton and Pine Valley Pine Hills. So >> there's someone else. >> 65.
>> Yes. Yeah. That's that's the key. >> Still can't believe they're >> all right. So the next item on the agenda, if we've talked that one to death, is to talk about Halloween survey and results. >> No, Sharon sent me that. >> Oh,
>> yeah. I didn't I didn't see that in the attachments. All right. >> Yeah. I also did not see the survey go out. >> Yeah. And I >> You would not have seen the survey go out because the survey went out to Washington Avenue and one block on
either side at every intersection. That's who it went to. Those are the people directly impacted by the events on Washington Avenue. And that's who the survey went out to. Was that >> pretty good results? >> And I didn't see this in the packet. So
that's why >> that's why you did your own. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's why I did my own. >> You know, anytime you do a survey, I always like to focus on the writings, >> you know. So try to steam it. Uh the you know safety concerns went both
directions. Safety of keep industry closed because this sidewalks are overcrowded uh versus keeping it open which was pretty safe overall. U this was the first year of back to the normal way. So there were some pretty good
practical things like crossing guards that could be a volunteer organization that could be something that bar might provide but again holiday is not such an event it's a it's an event that we have to manage so uh anything official
becomes official uh I would encourage if there's volunteer effort to volunteer some of the crossing streets but I was on Washington Avenue most of the afternoon game with him and
was was um there was one adult who was harassing the cops wouldn't really let them so so some of the writings said police were speeding I don't know how because there was a guy with a on a bike with a dog
who kept locking the police and and then almost caused one of our officers crash and that's when they were more than gently reminded to stop it But uh we're all one weed smell was like one of
the number one out of town crowd plates pulled by any intersection anymore. He had the weed smell. Um so I go back to then the survey results which was where pe most people were very
or extremely satisfied with the response sense of safety and uh what was the the last one what was the third question third question was oh trespassing or incidents you know there were some trespass incidents somebody got package stolen
they complained about it I don't know if they reported it but it was in the writings Yeah, but it was less than than the complaints we've received before. >> Oh, much less. >> This was great. I'll say I observed three very close calls. Like
they didn't actually amount to anything. No one got hurt. They were close calls. So, and it it just felt tight. Like I mean, I'm I'm glad to say that the residents felt comfortable. Um my fear
again is that if we don't have um if we allow traffic to continue while we have little children running back and forth and their heart to console and crowd I'm afraid something bad will happen in
which case we'll have to deal with it. That's the only reason I bring this up. But it's encouraging to see that the residents were satisfied with the way things were handled. >> I don't know how to I don't have a solution. I'll be honest, but like At what point do we interfere and say like
we don't want something bad to happen there. Therefore, we're going to take this action or that action to force something that I just hope this year where it just kind of be back like this for a couple years and get back to normal.
>> Okay. from the writings that people from office very happy even pleasantly surprised for those that I'm grateful that >> um okay the next item on the agenda is
the draft agenda for Monday. >> Have we reached out to anyone from the board of education for their proclamation? I know the HRC has somebody uh to accept a Muslim uh heritage month proclamation. >> Yes. Correct.
>> But I don't know if the school board >> I have not reached out to them. I will do so tomorrow. >> Yes. >> Yeah. We discussed that in the interest. >> Yeah. >> But and they also sent appreciation to you for the schedule proclamation so that we can get a head start on identifying people to accept their
behalf and organizations more than we can highlight as they accept instead of just individuals. Hey rather >> it and uh Scott Ste here one day. He said he put it in his schedule
>> or in his calendar this time. >> Oh, you know him too. >> We have three second readings. >> Yes. >> And that'll be the end of the legislative year. >> We may have some minor budget transfers. I think we need some in um
um vehicle maintenance. like a short write up of all these resolutions. >> No, but we can certainly do that for you. >> I can send you last year's agenda, which is a lot of this is a repeat and I probably have most of them written
up for this year anyway. So, I can go ahead and put that together. >> That'd be great. like 179 where we're adjusted,000 some background that would be helpful. So, so what that is um the state every two years I believe it
is. Yeah, two years. Um >> gives us more flexibility so you don't have to go out to an RFP for everything. >> But they was 50. Right now it's 53. >> Yeah, >> it originally was 40. >> Oh, how long? >> Uh not that long ago. And then when they got far enough along with the QPCs that
they felt comfortable, they they jumped it up. Um and then they they've jumped this is the second jump from then. Um but as as S said it's if you know when you're going out to bid anything under that amount if you have as long as you have a QPC and
Alex is also our QPC >> and this is a new requirement that you actually do the resolution now. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Before it was there but you would have to you have to do resolution every year. >> It's the same gives you more flexibility. >> Otherwise you have to put it up on RP.
you got to wait for responses to come back. So yeah, >> it's the same as what you will realize um on the first meeting of the year, we do something where we agree that we're allow allowed to use state contract pricing. So that way every time we buy
off something off state contract, we don't have to do a resolution saying we're authorizing p using off of state contract. So, we just do a blanket resolution at the beginning of the year saying we're allowed to use state contracts. Um, and and a lot of these what you're seeing is things for
um end of year financial stuff. So, at the end of the year, what you'll see is Alex will go through and, you know, trying to clean up the books a little. Are there appropriations that need to be cancelled for any reason? Are there checks that need to be cancelled so
they're not ashed to the state? Are there um grants that that we are done with that the we didn't spend as much so we're not going to get the receivable portion so we're cancelelling that. Um those types of things. the fair share
housing escrow fund overp payments. We the way our ordinance is written, they estimate what the amount of the cost is going to be on their construction because we get we take we take um 1.5% of construction cost goes
into the trust fund to help offset our affordable housing costs when you do a new construction or sizable addition to your property. when they fill out the application for that and make that payment initially that then gets reviewed when we when we
do the added assessment bill. So when Judy does the added assessment, she'll determine whether then the value that they put on there of the of the development was more or less than what they put on it. If it is more than what they put on, then we send them an
additional bill to collect the additional fee. If it is less, then we have a refund. So this is the list of anybody who she has determined is a refund. Um we've actually talked about trying to do that process throughout the year rather than just once. So as she
does each added assessment to to do it then so that we're going against the developer and not the homeowner um for that. Um the emergency medical services this is since we are now
collecting those fees. There are certain times where we'll get paid twice. You know, it's kind of like taxes where your um where your mortgage company will pay, but the resident doesn't realize the mortgage company's paid, so they'll pay. Uh this is sometimes we'll have a resident that'll pay when their
insurance company is paid. So, we're just reimbursing one or the other depending on on how it's supposed to be. Uh appointments is various. We'll talk about that later. Um 183 is annually we
have to dictate who's going to handle our appeals. That's always our tax assessor. Always has been our tax assessor. 184 is something we do annually in December. This is um a program that was put into place two years ago, I believe,
>> where we offer a reduced rate with unlimited use for senior citizens. It's a permit that they can park anywhere in town, you know, at any of our metered spots. Um, >> and it's very popular. >> It's very popular.
Um, 185 and 186 are annuals. This is, you know, who's going to attend those meetings and then a decision later who who our risk management consultant is. Uh 187 that's going to be discussed in close session. Whatever appointments we're making, those are that that's the
resolution for that. Um 188 pops up periodically as we have new people wanting to join the fire department. Um this is allowing that to happen. 189 we're going to talk about in a few minutes. It sets the meeting schedule
for the year. So we will pass a resolution that sets the meeting schedule for a year. That is your public notice that you have done that. So that is your notice on when all the meetings are going to be. we only have to do a new sunshine rule if we make a change to that list. So if we can't if we um
change a date on a meeting, you guys, you know, somebody goes on vacation unexpectedly or if something else pops up, you know, we and we change meetings, which it happens occasionally, or we need a new meeting, um then we do a sunshine notice, but we can just do this one resolution and this one notification
to the newspapers and we're good. Uh we already talked about the animal control. Again, this is a once a year at the end of the year. A lot of these things are once a year. At the end of the year, we're doing these resolutions just to clean things up. And then this is all of the shared service agreements.
>> And I'm sorry, 196 is um >> we went to court, the judge approved our fourth round, and um we just have to sign the agreement. So, this is authorizing the signing of that agreement. That'll be
then on the books. Uh Mary Beth is currently working on the ordinances that we will have to introduce in January. We will go to planning board for the amendment to the fourth round and the review of the ordinances at their February meeting
will adopt potentially in February and we will be all done before the March 15th deadline >> for 10 years >> for 10 years 2035. >> And for the last town to approve their third round, we will be the first town
to approve our fourth round >> for 10 years. It will not be my problem. >> Oh, no. I will not be here in 10 years. I can guarantee that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Shoot me.
>> No, I just I'm I'm trying to follow where you're going there. >> Uh, real quick, something completely not related to this, but it reminded me of it. Um, can we get parking placards, 2026 parking placards for all commissions members? >> Yes,
>> they keep pinging me on that. >> Would you do me a favor? Just remind Kate. >> Yeah. The problem is sometimes the lots are full and they park outside and they park across the street to get a ticket. >> Yeah. And I for one am tired of paying their tickets. >> Yeah. >> And it's
>> because you don't get them erased. >> They used to always get them. They used to always get >> they don't get they don't get paid. It was actually kind of like a benny where you can just >> again it's only supposed to be here though. >> Just saying. >> Okay. >> Because we had certain ones that used it for things that he wasn't supposed to
use it for. >> Yelled at him about >> Yeah. >> overnight parking is not it's not supposed to be used parking. >> But I didn't tell you about overnight parking. >> Not you. Not you. >> I didn't know at first when I got it. I didn't know. And I got a ticket. I paid that ticket.
>> So every member of every commission can get one of those. >> Well, as long as they have they have their meeting here. >> Yes. >> I see. Okay. >> Yes. >> And after hours. >> Uh no, it would be for shade too because because they'll be here during the day.
>> Yeah. >> It's Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. One of the things we have talked about doing is when the police do move over is the police spots that are right behind that make that 15inute
burrow hall parking. >> That'd be nice. >> Yeah. >> So for the people that you know are here. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Move this stuff for consent. Is it all agreed? >> Yeah, we can. >> You want to?
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then obviously all the Tavistock ones will be merged into one. Yeah. have a note on that. >> Since you guys have all agreed to it and just make it part of consent. >> Yeah. >> So, we just we just kill the resolution agenda. We just keep >> everything into the end of consent
agenda after 197. >> Yeah. >> Because we did all our talking right now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I'll still ask questions. >> That's fine. >> Have it on like what we're doing, but I understand.
>> Okay. Not a problem. Uh, next on the agenda is PFH update. Um, when we're talking about appointments, we will talk about the position of chair. I did provide to you an idea about reallocation of the board.
It does change the board from the current 11 members and increases it to 12. Um, but one of the things that Colleen and I had been talking about over the past few years was that some some of the folks who
are required to pay the tax are not really well represented on the board or not represented at all on the board and to be able to try and spread that so everybody can be represented on the board. This is just a thought on how you could do it and you it would not disrupt any
of the folks that you currently have on there. You have one person where you you would currently have three, but the one person could move to the um resident if you wanted to um because they are also a
resident in town. But if you're interested in potentially moving forward with this, I can talk to and get um impressions from the PFH board at their January meeting. >> They trouble with
>> not so much for the board as a whole. subcommittees. >> Um, subcommittees they have I actually asked Michael to start keeping track of attendance at subcommittees because participation in at least one
subcommittee is a requirement. um participation in the board outside of coming to the meetings isn't equally isn't is not done as equal across the
board as you would like. Some members should be participating in other activities, showing up for their events, um maybe participating a little more in their subcommittee, things like that. very show up for the rivers, but we usually don't see anybody from the PF.
>> That's one of the discussions. Um, and so there we wagons would be the other business owners, not just the commissioners, >> you would think. Um, so you know, it's and that's with the main street. Um, you know, they they had a meeting
back in May, I believe it was, with Main Street, New Jersey, which they are now a member of. Um and one of the things was you need more active participation from your board members. Um and so they are supposed to have been working on that.
Um amongst some other things, you know, comments from from Main Street because Main Street's coming back in March. So they're supposed to get an update as to where you are and you know what's what's going on. So one of those things that and also for what you guys should know when you're reappointing people, are
these people really participating or not participating? So, it's kind of one of those things to um enforce a little more in what you're putting in there. Here's your obligations. You know, show up at events, show up, you know, do this, do that. Um so that you know better when you're
appoint reappointing whether that person should be on there or not. Um but again, when they're planning things, you know, there's a lot of these there's some of these entities that say, "Well, you don't do anything for me yet. I have to pay the tax, you know, and so that's
kind of one of the ideas and one of the benefits that we've had in the partnership is is and I will say this from the beginning, you know, the landlords in the beginning were probably some of the loudest people voicing concerns about how things were
done downtown. Um, and when you force them into a position to participate in in deciding how to make things better and how to do things better, you all of a sudden get to see them change a little bit. So, with some of these entities, if you start to pull them in and say,
"Okay, then what can we do to help you? How can some of our events maybe we do events to do this and bring people downtown, but I can see how that might not help you. How can we switch that or what new can we do to kind of help benefit you?" Um, it's kind of the idea
behind trying to make everybody participate. >> Well, it's also I mean I'll credit Jiren. You know, whenever we get an opportunity to highlight the downtown, they seem to be pretty good at reaching out some of the more under represented or not under
represented but >> alone. >> Yeah. Right. The hidden gems. >> That has gotten better. >> That has gotten better. Yes. >> Recent stuff really >> well. And then and then the last four
events that I saw rally, Turkey Trot, Snowflake 5K, and the uh what was it? Oh, the tree lighting. We had a lot more participation. >> Small small business Saturday. >> Small business Saturday.
>> Um what's that? >> That was good. Saturday and Sunday. We got good coverage. people, >> you know, and I think that's our job is is, you know, I I've been saying I said it a lot on that podcast now that we've
both, you know, we provide the canvas, you provide the paint. You know, one of the jobs we're doing is we can leverage the Hfield brand to bring eyeballs to town. That's what the what you do, right? Uh
and just again, I'll say Joan, thank you. We bring eyeballs to 10. >> Can we take a bio break? >> Mhm. >> Before absolutely kick off.
>> Let's lay the plane. >> Exactly. I did see what amend this ordinance. Uh where is it? Personal use. >> Yeah. >> Where the hell was it? >> We have three. We have >> fortune telling card reading p. >> We had to because we have people coming
in at one point in time. >> Right now, >> no, but if you do, you have to know where to put them. >> You don't want them you don't want them on Kink's Highway. >> No. one. >> And there could be somebody in the farmers market next year that is off right now because it was such a hit at the night market. >> Oh, really?
>> Yeah, >> it is. It's a huge hit. >> It's a huge hit. >> There was there was a business. >> We've had We've had them where they've had them coming in. It's not been their focus. >> It's the same as when we had the one massage place coming in. All of a sudden, we had to quickly change the ordinance as to where the massage could play.
>> The line for tarot cards really spiritual thing. I mean, if you think about it, we have like we have natural herbists, you have the the gas bar, you know, we have the uh >> except is I mean, has that has anybody gone in there?
>> The desk. What is that? >> The IV place. >> Yeah. >> Oh, >> yeah. The IV place. >> I can tell you from experience they may be worse. >> That's worse than experience. would not have expected that >> by the acme it's already closed.
>> I don't think I've ever seen anybody in there ever. And I was shocked because I actually expected that to go over >> anybody you need you need homebased service where they show up to your house because if you're banged up enough to need to
>> get out there, you want to drive. >> Yeah. >> Make a call. It's It's very much a younger It's a college. Yeah. >> I saw it in Nashville the first Yeah. when my daughter graduated from college. We went to Nashville and I saw and they would go to your hotel room and I thought it was a joke. You know,
literally I saw this thing advertised. I went like >> go to casinos. Go to was in Las Vegas for the World Series poker. People are getting IV bags playing. You don't want to get up. >> Have freaking oxygen bars. They have
your install. So stay sitting in my car. >> Oh my god. >> Nasty. >> That's sick. Get up. Take a bio break. >> We're still being recorded. >> I know. I'm just saying. >> I'm shaking my head at the links people will go to.
>> God bless. >> Crazy. >> But for everybody that wants that, there's a person who sells that service. >> But like you said, it makes sense to come to your house. >> Sure. Yeah, if you're that banged up, I don't know you should be walking or stumbling into a place. >> The IV >> the IV services.
>> IV service >> like vitamins and and things like that. >> Hangovers hangovers sometimes. >> You could pump in some estroc and some vitamin >> science fact. Uh, only quasi. Although
Frank although Frank says it works >> firstand knowledge. >> Oh yeah. Maybe for >> pure oxygen and B12. Forget about it. >> That all should be >> I only speak for myself. So
>> machine every day for information. >> Okay. Um, so is there any interest in this or do I just put it in the trash and move it away? >> No, >> categories. >> Well, you're in the PFH. >> Yeah, I'm not close to this. Um,
>> the only reason I bring this up now is because you're going to have reappoints come May. And so the idea is, you know, go to PFH. If they like it, we final, you know, we we manipulate it however we need to manipulate it and make it final so you can introduce it so that it's
done so that you can say it's taking effective with the May appointments. That's all. That's the only reason I'm bringing it up now. >> And for them, it's a good time, too, because they're having leadership change. >> They're having leadership change. Um,
you do have another landlord that's going to be stepping down, you know, come >> Yeah. So, you know, you're you're going to have shifting of people. So, again, it all kind of made sense to, you know, that this might be the time to talk about it. >> And there's two openings.
>> Um, so it says need to add one, need to add one. >> If you switch to these, so what I did is if you switch to these categories, >> yeah, it's it's the it's you have the proposed categories and underneath that you have your c your current members according to the new categories. And it kind of it's it's where your current
members would fall. under those new categories. But as I said in the in category B, you have three, but one of those could move to G, which is going to be what your vacancy is right now. >> So I appreciate what you're saying. So
everybody gets two. So professional services, retail, landlord, resident is one. >> Yeah. So you're right now basically your um professionals your I'm sorry your services get get
pushed in with some other people. So, your services get pushed in with professionals. Um, and your restaurants and stuff get pushed in with retail. >> And they do have different thing, not
the labor of the homelessness, but there's a much bigger difference of those that have restaurants and public bathrooms for their patrons than a retail store that doesn't. You know, they see the world very differently downtown. Well, and and look at our
events. There are a number of our events that are focused on retail, but no matter what event we do, the restaurants almost always benefit. But then we have certain events that are are restaurant focused.
We have no events that spons you know that that assist the professionals except the they're trying to you know redo some of the quarterly you know gettogethers and and maybe speaker series and stuff to try and interact the professionals with our businesses and
stuff. Um but also you have no one coming up with something to help the services >> right be the wellness >> right well >> right >> can you remind me which was
>> uh the cookie downtown cookies >> I did not put where the two alternates fit >> right and really of the people who are on this that category would be the main. So like between Morgan, Andrea, and Tom, you'd have to drop one of those that category.
>> And that's your recommendation is to move it to the resident. >> Yes, I know. I know Andre does. Actually, Morgan does, too. >> Yeah. >> Um Abigail, I think, does. >> Yeah. So in res, right? >> Sean did because Shawn actually stopped
being a landlord, right? >> So it was an easy switch to move him there. Um but any of those three >> that doesn't count. No, it was >> Sean >> Sean Sean was on as a >> landlord and then we moved him to the to
the resident because it almost is like a good the resident seat is also the >> president the chair >> you know that that because that's the oversight >> that they don't have skin in the game other than that they're taxpayer town
>> except that she has a business too. No, this is too. >> Yeah, >> but I trust the people separating church and state have a position of authority. >> Or see, it's a Scott Leonard. He means Sean.
>> No, two different people. Not related. Sean lives in town. Scott does it, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Scott's a landlord. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Owns. >> Owns a number of of places in town. >> Yeah.
That's right. >> Okay. So, >> Sean resign. >> Sean is resigning as of December 31st. He's done his last meeting. >> We should >> honor him. >> Yeah, we should do something. >> I would do I would do January. I don't
think he'll be around. >> And then it's making sure he's here and not in Florida. So if you're so if you're okay with at least having a discussion about it, I'll take it to PFH and get their opinions back. >> Okay. All right. So that was that. Um
2026 meeting dates. So Diana has confirmed with all the different boards their dates and times and I have notes on she put notes on here on the front of it. This
So, when she made a change to the actual schedule, um she explained here why there's still some questions in November that we have to answer. Um just an FYI in January, I talked to Alex. Um we have typically had
our work session in January, one of the first day few days in January to um authorize the we do a a small actual meeting at the beginning of it to be able to do a bunch of resolutions that
we need to to start the year. Um the biggest one being the temporary budget. In talking to Alex, that resolution states that it goes back to to January 1st. um whether we do it the 5th or we do it the next week after it doesn't matter because the first payroll is on
the 2nd. So the resolution is going to say retroactive to January 1st anyway. So if you don't want to have that meeting on January 5th, you can do it on January 12th if you wanted to. And >> either way, I would rather it be a meeting. I don't care if it starts at
6:30, but advertised as a as an action meeting and not as a work session. >> Well, it's both. >> I do. You have you have a five minute action meeting that we then adjourn the meeting and then we start a work session. >> It's not where we're take we're not
doing resolutions. We're not doing it. It's it's one of the it's odd. It's different than like tonight where we put a resolution on the meeting. We do an actual action >> meeting is just for appointing you know not not professional services. reappoint the people who've done it do things
integrative pest management safety forward >> paper >> is that point of making the first sub >> we have like five five or six resolutions it's the the the interest rates charged the policies and procedures that we have on the books we
reapprove >> um just various little things like that the temporary budget >> yeah the biggest issue is the temporary >> bud you don't have to prove all the polic his policies, >> his policies, >> policies, >> ordinances on the books.
>> Um, and then the other comment I just wanted to make too is when you look at December, um, we're pushing two meetings there. You could do the 14th and the 28th. Um, you know, we pushed this year, we pushed the meetings so that we didn't have a meeting Christmas week. Um, but
you c you could do the 14th and 28th if you wanted to rather than the 7th and 14th. The only concern I have with the 2030 the 14th is if we have to do any sort of ordinance, you don't have 30 days. >> You don't need >> You don't need 30 days
>> 10 days between >> advertise. You mean you mean December 20th? >> Is there any Can we move the 23rd one back? >> No. Then you're in league. >> Oh, right. >> What are you November? >> Yeah, he's in >> you looking November. December. >> Yeah, November.
>> November. I'm sorry. Yeah. I was just looking to see the week before November. It's league week. >> Yeah. >> Is that week before? >> Um, >> and I don't want to have a 21st >> to December. >> Yeah. I mean, you could you could you
could do I mean, you could leave December 7th if you wanted and you could switch the action meeting to the 28th, which is the last Monday of the month, >> is the 4th. >> I'm sorry. I'll speak just myself. >> It's up to you guys. >> Anything during Christmas week? >> No. Christmas week is the week before.
>> You said moved it to the 28th. >> Yes. Christmas week is the week before. >> This would be the Monday after Christmas. >> Oh, that's what I mean. Christmas between Christmas and New Year. >> Okay. That's okay. It's not Christmas week. Christmas week is the week before.
>> 12 days of Christmas. It's on the 25th. >> Okay. And it, you know, we're already going to be meeting >> and ordinances only require 10 days of advertising from from the advertisement date. So if we advertised on November
27th because the meeting is on the 23rd, then it's uh 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 puts us out to December 7th is the 10th day. So if we're having the meeting on the 14th, there's still extra time. >> Change up.
Yeah. >> Uh, the only thing January the January 26 I'm going to be in California. >> Okay. >> January 5th. >> January 26th. >> Oh, 26. I'm sorry. I like >> the year is 26. >> Yeah. So, um, >> sorry.
>> You can either try to move that or if there's not a lot on the agenda, you can just let it ride and if there's anything that needs you attention, we can push it. Yep. >> Till February 9th. It's a Frank this one and >> there's going to be in March. Uh I'll be
in Portugal, but I don't know those dates. >> So, what do we do want to do about January 26th? >> The Monday before is Martin Luther King, so we can't have it on the Monday. >> Yeah. Tuesday, I got a meeting in Philly that night.
And you're away the whole week of the 26th. Yeah, I think we're leaving I think it's the 22nd or 29th, something like that. >> My recommendation would be we leave it and just wait and see what happens. >> Yeah. If it's a plane J1, it's fine.
>> Yeah. Well, we're going to have the the affordable housing >> Yeah. >> ordinance. But as long as we have two commissioners that are here to to pass it, you'll be here for planning board. You guys are okay with that. Then I
would leave the 26. >> The planning board first, right? >> We'll introduce it and then it'll go to planning board. >> Right. So you'll have a public either way. >> Yeah, it'll come back. You can see the planning board. Yep.
>> So January 267. as we just talked about. You have two of you. As long as you have two of you to live, don't get sick. >> That's going to be the that's going to be the ordinance, you know, for for that month. I mean, that's going to be the key thing. Everything else we can probably push. That's going to be the
key thing. >> I could probably like I'll probably attend remotely. >> Yeah, you could do that. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah, I can probably do that. >> You do that. >> Yeah. Let's keep it and I'll just try and zoom in. >> Zoom. >> Okay. You're gonna have to make sure you're not, you know, surfing since it's a
couple hours behind. >> I mean, we're going to stop with the whole meeting. It just can't be for the be from Yes. public statement >> to in German. >> No problem. >> No, they made it really clear in that train. That's Yeah.
So if we're feeling good about this, can I make a request on the all the other are we ready to talk about all the other positions? >> So So do you want to leave January 5th or do you want to move it to the 12th? I would be okay moving into adults. Feels like
>> you're right. I'm fine. I would just prefer to move it to the 12th to give me more time to get something to you guys. >> Yeah. No, that's fine. And I'm just being selfish here. I'd stop the time the checks, right? >> Yeah. Plenty of time. >> The checks aren't going to be done till
the 26th anyway. >> And when is Yeah, sure. From a payroll standpoint, which >> uh that's won't be effective. >> Okay. >> Nope. I already talked to Alex about it. So, first meeting in January is on the 12th.
>> On the 12th and >> then we're leaving December the same. >> Okay. Now, you're asking about something else. >> So, I'm January. I see like two of my commissioners are happy to see time
on the 20th. I have the sh commission at 8 a.m. and then senior citizens. I'm not there. Anyway, like when we have a situation like this request that citizen meets the next following Monday instead of pushing
forward to Tuesday. >> I didn't think the the shade tree met on Monday, do they? >> T they meet on Tuesdays. So senior citizen meets on that Monday. The next day >> Oh, so you're asking to try and put them on the same day? >> No, no, no.
So, >> so in January, you said >> in January on the plan at 8 a.m. she treats this meeting and then at 9:50 a.m. the scenic citizen. >> Right. >> So, can we instead request that the
senior citiz? >> Exactly. >> Right. >> So, like as if just so that I can attend those, >> right? Otherwise, they're at >> Do you do you have a preference for the 12th or the 26th? >> No, whichever whichever they prefer. Um, whichever
>> you're going to have a commissioner meeting on the 12th. >> That's fine because I work anyway. So, it's up to Sherry. Whichever she prefers. I just prefer that it stays on a Monday. So, that's intend. >> And the same thing is happening
February. rest on the self. >> Yes, because I think those are the only dates that uh senior citizens are moved >> or September. >> No, it says you have September 14th and
September 15th. Yan Kapur is 920. At least that's a little note we have. for September. For what? For which ones? >> Senior citizen shrior is actually the 20th the 21st. >> Yeah. So these two are here and here.
>> Yeah. So that's fine. >> Yeah. >> Just making sure that they don't meet in July or the senior citizen commission meets in August. And then December happens not. Okay. They don't meet in December.
And just to confirm, the Environmental Commission is meeting 700 p.m. Not a.m. >> Correct. >> Correct. So my only real question for the boards was um during the league the week of league we have environmental commission
shade tree commission and zoning board are scheduled for that week but they those members are all invited to go to leave at our expense if they are if they so wish. Should we then move those meetings out of that week?
where you go usually go. God bless us. I think God bless. Yeah. It was close. >> I know. >> I don't think zoning boards usually changes. I would ask I would just ask them to talk like have have them ask in their Janu December meeting or poll their members
>> environmental and and all three of them. You mean >> I would do all three of them, but I I expect that zoning board stays the same because they would usually always be the week of league, >> right? So, and I've never known them to change. >> Yeah. And if they go down, they go down for classes during the day on
stay to the 10th. >> Yeah. >> On in what month? >> November. >> Maybe we need November for all. Well, 17th. Yes. >> So, for November what time?
>> The November dead 7 p.m. Right. Sorry. >> Same for November. On November 17th, we have EDM. Let's also say 10. >> What was the board? Shri.
>> Shri. You said move that to the 10th. I can stay as okay. So environmental stays move shade tree and leave zate
is what we're saying. >> I've been doing it a few years. It it should be your last out. >> A lot of last coming up. >> Anything else in the meeting dates? >> Okay, we're going to skip appointments because they'll go into close session.
Other items, we do have just a couple of minor things that popped up. Um, we we had some folks that put I'm going to hand these out and you guys can think about these. Um,
we had some folks put a retaining wall in the rightway and initially um blocked the fire hydrant and uh I'm sorry. So, >> um said they didn't know what a fire
hydrant was, but we got them to unblock the fire hydrant. The last picture is the fire hydrant and the little retaining wall. That is >> last page. >> Well, that's the same >> last two pictures at least. So, the last
picture is the one where the they actually had the the fire hydrant buried and now you've seen they've unburied the fire hydrant. We we normally don't put fire hiders on private property, correct? >> No, this is the rightway. >> Yeah, that's what I'm >> The retaining wall. Not the wall. >> Yeah, the retaining wall is is
completely in the right of way. >> Does this property have sidewalks? >> I It does not appear to uh Cleveland Boulevard. I do not recall the top of my head. >> I don't think they have sidewalks. >> I don't think they have sidewalks. >> They exactly safe roots to school. You
know, I don't think >> No, I do not believe so. one. I mean, bring out the French takes a lot of votes. >> No, I forget. I'm sure it might be in there in that packet how it started, whether
our folks were driving by and saw it and said, >> "Yeah." And did send them a violation notice. >> Yeah. Um, so they're asking permission to to leave it >> to leave it with the wall in front of
the fire hydrant, even if that fire hydrant stuck out. >> That's what they want to do. >> So, they said that they they received the notice, didn't know the fire hydrant was a working hydrant or was in the rightway.
Uh, they made sure that it has adequate access. Now, they dug out the area around the the fire hydrant. Um, they spoke to the prior owners to gain additional insight regarding how they reported that when they purchased the property in 2011, there was a stack stone retaining wall
in exact location and at the exact same height as the current retaining wall prior because that prior wall was very old and deteriorating. The prior owners replaced it with the current retaining wall. So, they're saying it was the prior owners that actually put the wall in, not them. The prior owners further reported the
fire department would regularly drain the hydrant without incident during the time that they owned the owned the property which wouldn't be us. It would actually be the original work and water from 2011 through 2022. Uh and the survey as well as a photo to illustrate the current layout. Given the foregone,
we respectfully request that we be granted a variance to for the retaining walls to remain in its current location. Obviously, they wouldn't get a variance. It's just the commissioners have to approve the retaining wall. Yeah, I don't think I don't even know that the the rules are around this. What
what is considered a structure? >> Yeah, I I I honestly I mean in looking at it as since it is since they did dig it out and are aware that it is an active hydrant, um I think you're fine with where the
wall is. Um it's not they're able to easily access it at this point. It's just then saying, you know, putting something on the record that you're giving them permission to have the retaining wall on the property. However, we are not taking
any burrow any responsibility of ownership or maintenance of the >> wall >> of the wall itself. That that stays with the homeowner. So that way nothing down the line, you know, no property owner in the future comes to us and says,
you know, this is yours. Who owns the fire? Are we or the smartphone? >> Technically, >> see the stack stone? >> Yep. >> It's buried then. >> It's buried there. This This is an old one. >> I don't know what year that is, but
that's >> But that's the stack stone. And it's straight up buried it. >> Yeah. It's diabolical. >> Um it's their house. Like it's only your house. It's the end of a dead end street. >> Um Yeah.
>> It's the only water source. for your house to buy. >> Technically, we rent we lease the fire hydrants. We pay a fee every month for the fire hydrants. >> Yeah, that's that's why my point in
asking the question was should we get American Motors opinion? >> Um, we can they're going to say it's in the rightway. They're it's the fire hot chief is going to as long as the fire chief can connect to it and
it's not blocked. >> I >> if there's damage that they're not going to be held responsible to anything there. >> Okay. So >> the ordinance states property owners are prohibited from constructing installing placing etc in the burrow right away or on Hadenfield property fences steps
walkways retaining all statues and other such structures. Property owners are also prohibited from planting, placing, etc. trees, plants, shrubs, and other such plant life, which we have all throughout the town in our right ofway, burrow of Hadenfield's rightway, andor Hatenfield property. The burrow of Hadenfield in its sole discretion may
require the property owners to remove the above reference to structures and/or plant life from the burrow of Hadenfield's rightway or burrow of Hadenfield's property. In the alternative, the burrow of Hadenfield may remove such blah blah blah at the owner's expense. Any structure under plant life in the Hadenfield rightway and on burrow Hadenfield property shall
be the responsibility and liability of the contiguous property owner except structures installed by a governmental agency such as stop signs, fire hydrants, street signs, parking signs and and such other structures and except plant life planted by a government agency >> that was written prior to the sale to
New Jersey American Water if I recall. Yeah. 2016. Well, right after we we amended it. We amended it afterwards because we had people putting stuff in the right of way >> and then trying to tell us that it was our responsibility and we're like
hinder us in any other properties in town that have retaining walls in the right way. >> So, what's Yeah, there's a couple of things. What caused this? as long as we when we figure it out, we
document who it belongs to. No. Um, couple. So, what led to the change of that in 2016 was Tom Wagner buying >> Birdie's house >> on Washington Avenue. >> I moved that
>> and there was a tiny little retaining wall that at one point in time he tried to say was ours and wanted us to remove it. We're like, "That's not ours, but you can remove it because it shouldn't be there because it's in our property." And so, what we did was change that
ordinance to make it clear that anything in there was not ours. Um, >> there's also an issue when he's subdividing the property that had to do with >> Yeah. >> Yeah. When Tom did that. Um so other issues we have
uh not Washington Avenue um the wall um walnut walnut >> walnut >> so >> like >> walnut >> kings highway the issues we have are there are some areas of town where retaining walls are put in that are so
old we can't tell whether they were put in so that the road had access or whether the property property was maintained, you know, was put in to create the block. Example is Walnut. You're driving down Walnut, really large
retaining wall, which happens to be in the right of way. No, nothing on record anywhere as to whose ownership that ended up falling to us. So, we had to pay to redo the wall and and deal with the issues of the wall because we couldn't track who it
belonged to. No idea whether it comes chicken or you know, which came first, chicken or the egg. And actually, one of the things to talk about with that is we have a situation right now down on Kings Highway where even though it is technically a county road, once you get into the right
of the way, the county only takes responsibility for the roadway, anything beyond the roadway is the municipality. Plus, it's a state road, so it gets even more confusing. But down there, um, the Baptist church.
Yes. >> Is it the Baptist? >> I think it's the Baptist. >> One of the churches the the last the last the Methodist church. Methodist. >> Yes. >> It's the Methodist. The Methodist cemetery where you actually the roadway
Methodist. Yep. So >> Kings Highway is here. They actually have a little road that goes next to it and then goes back into it. There's a retaining wall on both sides of that road. That one it seems to be that the retaining walls were put in for
that road so you could access the back. They're in questions with the county and us as to whose responsibility is to fix the retaining wall. We're kind of in agreement that it's the church because we think that was put in
to be able to access the back of that property. Um, we're however looking to the two in order for them to replace that retaining wall. We will realistically lose the two burrow trees that are there. So Mark is
supposed to be talking to Shade Tree Commission about being able to take those two trees down so that the church can possibly redo the wall. Then we're going to have to have conversations with the two homes there because of that. Anyway, that's along with this. It's something that's in the rightway that
unless it's clearly marked, which again, this isn't there. It's been there for so long, you know, who whether you can determine whether it was put in to benefit the property or to benefit the town is kind of what we fall back on. Um, >> what Frank is saying, you know, as long
as firefighting safe on city, you got boss because it was a previous owner got boss, right? But uh as long as the fire department says it's safe. >> Okay. >> Same. Yeah. Same thing. But it has to be uh they have to keep it free of debris.
It has to be like the way it used to look where it's flush with Yeah. the opening just good for them anyway. And uh we assume no responsibility for damage or what else may be caused by you know
water firefighters. Yeah. accidentally it's going to you know if you're the center box gets shipped so it'll be with a decorative block >> and if American border has to replace that fire hydrant >> yeah he's been treating that god
>> um okay I have a question about how did this come up because it wasn't on the agenda >> um because Diana found it that it they had emailed you and I and it was to be put on an agenda and I overlooked it so it's coming up under the discuss other items per administrator
Yeah, that's how because we wanted to bring it up and get a resolution to it. >> And just go ahead. >> I'll have uh Suzanne talk to you to get the details. >> Yeah, we'll have to write them a letter
and then we'll put something on file so that people know it. >> Um Okay. something that came up today, Joanna, on that little new there's there's some pictures on here.
>> Why? Why not? I just want to make them aware of something. That's okay. Other issues I in dealing with preserving black cat I'm strongly recommended to that organization that as a commission they
can't just bypass the so we would gladly accept a recommendation from the government commission for any activity that the HRC wants to do with preserving cattle food industry and the federal commissioners we would do that on behalf
in the proclamation form with the recommendation of the HBC not >> HRC >> HRC not taking a recommendation directly from an outside organization on behalf so uh something like the
American Legion that would come through come through a lot of different ways that can come through the senior citizen center through 65 come through HB HRC uh but there has to be kind of like a um what would that be sponsoring
board or commission for stuff like that which is normal most of them have it just to try to bypass not put us in a bad spot even >> say yes or no on behalf of the three of us >> but our commissions do our chain of command it's more of a chain of command
issue than anything I I just enforce the chain of command >> but for things like like World War to >> Oh, they're all proclamations. They're different. They go through the clerk's office. >> All right. >> Right. Yeah. No, that's different. >> He's talking about events. >> Yeah. Talking about event sponsorship.
The problem we had was Junth last year was proved under a previous administration was unilaterally and then nobody really knew what was going on. >> Things changed and >> and it got out of hand. >> Ran with it. >> Yes. June teeth became a >> it's not even >> an issue. Not just a it was a good
event, but it was very much an issue inside the building. skip the chain of command. Only one person knew about it. She was a new officer. >> Uh speaking of the chain of command, I'd love to create a new one. Um, I have a
theory that the reason I don't know if you guys feel this way, but I get a lot of very basic questions that if that information just existed on the website, this this is not a good uh or anyone, but if that information just existed on the website, I think we wouldn't be
getting as many messages. And so, what I really wanted to do was see if we can stand up a u some sort of a task force, like a digital assets task force. the name. >> Well, you're going to have to >> minimize
technical assets like our website, our um application, the way we send out recommendations on what we can make things more accessible and just more thorough
benches. I haven't taken any action on it, but it's just an idea that I've been holding on. >> Yeah, I'd say flesh it out. >> Yeah. I I I just think you're always going to wind up getting emails just, you know, I I get emails, texts, whatever, like from countless things.
You just, you know, like like a good example is trash, trash, recycling, whatever pickup. It's pretty clearly articulated exactly the days, the times, whatever else. I still get texts like all the time from countless friends of mine like, "Hey,
can this be done? When is this gonna happen?" All that. I just >> I mean, Facebook, >> no, I just I just tell them. >> Then we just had somebody that that reached out to Dave. Um they had uh submitted what they thought was an
request. It wasn't an actual request. >> It was an email. >> Yeah. You know, and and um complained that I hadn't responded. Well, it had gone to my my uh spam folder and uh but he was sending them direct directly to
me. Our website says to send them to Bernardet, you know, kind of thing. So, you mean it's again people aren't following what's on the website as it is. >> Well, we could have a little reminder thing in the newsletter or something that says, hey, just as a reminder if you need an request, you know, this is the process or policy if if you want to
run, but sometimes sure. I think the problem is is that like it's almost like things like repetitive task like the reason why you teach one person how to do it at work because like it's a repetitive task but is it that one thing that you have to renew some
form once a year and you're like oh who the hell did that last time? I think most people who reach out it's about the oneoff time they need something and like they're going to do a cursory look on the website and then they're going to email or call whoever they know. >> Website's not helping. That would be my
>> agree. But you get a disagreement that the right question needs a little bit. >> Maybe let's let's I'll position it that like the website needs a little >> search a lot. We're going to have a chat on Facebook or something good.
>> Maybe that's a in a year or two organizer. >> Well, there was a there was a conference session that I thought there was going to be more practical uses of AI. I took it and turned into how to support the power industry in New Jersey. But besides,
>> even one of the panelists was lamenting that it didn't go the way that it >> Yeah, we just walk out forever. >> Well, he does. >> If you're if you're the attendee. >> Okay. Um, what Diana has up on her
computer is one of the two finalists for the sculpture to commemorate Joe Harrow's um, donation and to the foundation um, for in front of the library. This one is interactive um, and
>> yeah, let me just skip it. >> It's fine. >> Um, okay. So, this is what it looks like. So obviously you can sit on the on the books, but what you see this young lady looking at is a whole bunch of dots. Those dots are all different color and it can all be flipped. So people can
go in there and actually make pictures and stuff from all those dots and it could be something different every >> like a light bright kind of thing >> kind of. Yeah. Um so that's that one of that. >> That one's huge. Can you tell us location? >> It can. So, where you're probably
looking at is, you know, you have you've got the library, then you have the steps that come down, and you have that center area. This is originally it was supposed to go on the other side of the trees on Haden Avenue. Um, and then they put the interactive
sound system there. So, instead, this is probably most realistically going to be you've got the the round circle in the middle with the statue in the middle, and then this is probably going to be in that first big section of green space. This looks huge. It is it can is scaled
to what the size you want it to be is what I'm told. Um so that is >> when you scale it loses impact >> depending on yes which picture which >> and if you leave it the way it is >> it impacts other than it's like
lighting. >> Well yeah you're not going to take up that whole green space up there a little bit. So, um, this is actually the inside. >> Very cool. >> All right. And then
the to get at night. >> That is It's really cool. It's just >> that is the look at night. >> Okay. So, that's sculpture number one. Sculpture number two that they have finalized on.
>> Do we actually get to approve these? >> Yes. >> Okay. you c it's going on your property. You have final say. >> Um, so >> is that person real or is that part of the statute? >> No, the person's real. So that
>> we have a little kid reading the book. We have people sitting on the steps. >> No, that is real. It is just the circles. These folks are out of Seattle. The other folks are out of Canada, I believe. Um, these are this one, my
understanding is sculptors who have been in the business for quite a while, while the other one is newer, younger folks getting into it is my understanding. Um, that's picture one of that one. >> Does that make noise? >> This one? Not that I'm aware of >> because it looks like it's built for the
wind blowing through it. >> Yeah, this is It does have at the end it has colored things. So that is potentially a night vision of it. Although when you look at it closer, it looks like it only has color on like this much of it. So I'm not really sure how it
>> they prefer to find us the location between the tree and the fountain. >> No, they're just kind of picture. >> They're just No, this isn't between the tree and the fountain. This is just closer to the tree. >> Oh, okay. >> Um this is just them as part of their these these were like 38 pages, you
know, presentations. Um and then >> could we request could re we request for final submissions to have scaled and in
plan >> scale is going to depend on on what we tell them. So for example that's wait bigger. >> Well at least that's in plan so we can kind of get a sense exactly doing. >> So that's more
what that one is. >> So, the committee is actually split. >> They're the two finalists. >> These are the two finalists. Um the subcommittee, it's going back to the foundation group as a whole to make a a choice. So, we're to provide your input
if you have on a preference. Um initially, the subcommittee went with the more interactive one because they felt it gave a better experience. um the children's um instruments are so heavily used now that they've been put out there. They
felt that that the interactive one would provide more of you know more interactivity in something in front and they felt that this was something where residents are going to go more and use kind of with their kids rather than sculptors coming from around the world
to come look at this. Um, so that's kind of where, but then it went back to host to get their ideas and they convinced everyone to go with the design instead of the interactive one. It's going to go to the foundation. You know, the foundation
with your blessing and a smile say if you were to make a choice, your choice will impact the f the foundation's decision because it's on federal property. >> Both of them look like power. So, is part of the
>> uh the one definitely doesn't need power because that's it's >> lit. No, it looks >> No, it's colored. >> I I don't think it's really lit. >> Oh, okay. But this one is. So, >> that I will have to ask how that color is. >> Right. And if Well, if it's powered, you know where I'm going.
>> Have problems because we have no power. >> Right. Well, and and part of the installation cost is >> would have to be power. >> Would have to be power because then to ask >> us to run power. >> Yes. Yes, we're not going to do that. >> We're not going to do that. Thank you. >> Is there a story you like what what's
meant to say? >> I forget what was in the RF. >> What? Yeah. Oh, for Harro. I mean, it was his it was a it was a will. It was his testiment request, but I forget the purpose of it. >> Yeah. I mean, Joe Harrow. So, the idea was to do something.
The location was picked at the library because he was such a proponent of the library. >> Yeah. No, I meant Sorry. behind the story behind either of these they're really what they they were they were provided the space that it would go in >> and character of field and I'm trying to
remember the RFP what was over and above that I think I was more focused on the approval process than what story they were telling them >> do we have an opinion one way or the other >> the the first one I think will get
scaled down so small that it's insignificant. >> Okay. >> Like I mean, if you look at those pictures in there, it's like two adults in there. Like I mean, this is going to there's not a lot of room there at all. I mean, you're talking >> I don't know how big that would be. It's
like the the the largest part of that looks like to be like pretty wide. So, >> looking from this table almost to that table. >> I go back to even when I said at the
tree. This is our public square. Um, and just never imagined it would be that big. >> Yeah, I did wasn't expecting something that big either. That's why I my comment was and that's what I was told. It can be scaled. But, you know, although the difference is, Frank, if it is scaled
down, it's really meant for children to be in there. You know, you're not going to have 16, 17, and 18 year olds necessarily. not may have an adult, but more likely the adults going to be looking over at the kids that are inside it
>> potentially. >> The list and which one's easier to clean? >> Well, you know, that's part of the trust is to maintain enough money to, you know, maintain it. Um it's there is concern
by at least one board member that the um design one down here. Um design one would be more prone to potential um vandalism or
or injury potentially from the ends. But I don't know. Look, we were expecting vandalism and problems when Venus was put in the first time. Isn't her name Venus? >> Music instruments. >> Yes.
>> Yeah. I mean, it it depends on what it is. I mean, we've been very fortunate that the art throughout town really hasn't gotten messed with. you know, if I were to be a meeting, it's more to the interactive one,
knowing that other sculptures in that area are interactive and I have a lot of um engagement excitement to that area. So, I think maybe that's the one, but I'd be curious to hear what foundation is up. >> I
just care about space. >> Yeah, I'm take on that. I like both of them, pros and cons to both of them. I think that the the first one to scale down so small to like one little kid can go in there and do big picture even do
anything or anything. Mhm. >> I'd almost I mean I'd almost like to see like more like a a vertical kind of like not take up a lot of room but is like something of >> interest you know
>> uh you know and and the chair and so where part of my it's coming back from >> is the original location is where they put the uh >> platinum you know >> no >> the county no the interactive >> the interactive Yeah, but but still that
that was a that was a location that also had a very constrained space. >> Mhm. >> You know that this didn't seem to stay constrained by its original location. Now it's >> okay. >> Yeah, >> let me go back to him and talk to him
about size issues. Um and that should probably >> tell you the truth I believe shaking right because as Frank said to anything small enough to climb in it's still circles take up the most space
like space and library points used by a lot of things. >> Yeah. But you it's also a bigger space than you think. I mean I I think realistically >> see it expected to the aerial >> it was like a survey type of map
>> how how big the scale would be. >> Yep. Okay. Let me talk to him about it. See what information we can get before because I think their meeting's not until January. So let me see what additional information I can get for you. Um
>> just because you can camp outside church and the tree lighting perform lighting these are things that even a book sale things that the library does. Yeah. >> But all takes place >> absolutely let me get more information. And that's why I wanted I said to him I'm like let me take it to these guys and find out what comments they have
about it. Um, I am going to send you an email with um, six different potential benches that I'm going to take to HPC on Wednesday to get
their informal opinion. Um, it is time to transition our benches downtown from teak to metal. Um, >> it's horrible. The me the teik is the problem we have is they are incredibly
expensive because so they're donations. >> They are >> they are donations that the person purchases the bench and then spends a significant amount of money to engrave have engraved their saying into which has gone up drastically over the years
because there's less people who do that work. Um we maintain them to some degree in the fact that we clean them periodically. Um but the problem is unlike the trees when we had you know the commemorative trees
they actually pay an additional amount of money so that if the tree dies in the first two years there is no amount of money put aside to replace that bench if it gets vandalized to the point or broken to the point where it no longer can be there. So, it is a onetime
purchase and if they and they do they get broken, we then have to take them out of commission. The metal benches are much sturdier and will take a bigger um uh a lot more they will not show the
damage as easily and will not damage as easily as the wooden ones are. Um we're getting spindles that are coming out. Um, and we'll be able to do use a plaque instead, >> which will be less money right there. >> Significantly less money than
>> because it cost almost as much depending on what they want engraved on it. It costs almost as much as the cost of bench to do the that sand blasting >> and they can't be bolted to the ground, >> right? >> So they tip. So when you sit in one of those benches, if you approach it,
>> I do you >> you can >> some of the benches can go back because they're sitting on a >> they get moved all over. >> They get moved a lot and some of them were chained out, but they're not chained on it. It's changed for us to do. >> So there's
>> Yes. Yeah. I'm going to send them. I'm going to there's a I've got like six different ones um potentially to look at. >> Mhm. >> Feel like my skin's going to fall off in the summer when I sit on them. >> Burn off.
>> Is that a pleasant experience? >> Let me talk to the people and find out. >> Yeah, let me let me talk to the manufacturers and find out. Yeah. >> Yep. I would say the composits, but they get
>> down the grounds and stuff like >> And that's all I have before we go into close to go before we go into close session to talk about professional appointments and appointments. Yep. Um, anything else before we ask the
reporter if they have anything they want to say or ask? No. No. Okay. Liz, do you have any questions? Okay. Do I have a motion to go into close session? Second.
>> All in favor? Any opposed? >> Thank you. Thank you. Say yes. Bye.