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Sorry about that. >> All right, I'm going to call the meeting to order. The April 28th, 2026 Board of Commissioners action meeting. Um, in accordance with the open public meetings act, notice of this meeting has been

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sent to the retrospect and posted on the Barrow website, Burrow social media, and posted on the bulletin board downstairs in Burough Hall and is being held in person as well as via Zoom. Would you please stand for the pledge of allegiance followed by a moment of

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silence? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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>> Thank you. >> Roll call. Commissioner Cole here. Commissioner Troy. >> Commissioner Sidell, >> I'm here. All right, first up, proclamations. Thank you everyone. Um, our burrow meetings are at 7:30. Board of Education

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meetings are at 7. Uh, so sorry for the mixup. Uh, we're going to do these in the order that they were handed to me. Um, I will read them uh one at a time and we'll stand up and and and acknowledge the the recipients of these proclamations. So, first one is Asian

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and Asia-Pacific Islander Heritage Month. It's going to be accepted by uh Maddie Clumbck. Is that okay? And okay. And Alex Sala. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Uh whereas

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the month of May is designated as Asian-American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month, a time to recognize and celebrate the rich and diverse cultures, contributions, and histories of Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders in our great nation. And whereas a diversity in cultures has made significant contributions to the social

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fabric of Hadenfield and the United States, enhancing our communities through their traditions, art, cuisine, and innovations. And whereas we acknowledge the challenges, sacrifice, and resilience of Asian-American and Pacific Islander individuals and families throughout history who have

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worked tirelessly to overcome adversity and promote understanding and acceptance in our society. And it is crucial to foster inclusivity, respect, and appreciation for the diverse voices within our community, ensuring that all residents feel valued and heard. And

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whereas the Barrow of Hadenfield invites all residents to reflect on the contributions of Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders and to participate in events and activities that honor their heritage and promote cultural awareness. And together we strive to create a

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community that celebrates diversity and advocates for equality and justice for all. So therefore, be it resolved that the board of commissioners, bur of Hadenfield, County of Camden, state of New Jersey, do hereby proclaim May 2026 as Asian-American and Pacific or

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Highlander Month. And I also point out the 0833 magazine cover of uh of of Lunar New Year and the dance and the parade uh down in King's Court was really awesome. Yes.

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>> Yeah, I have. I'll send it to All right. We extended. >> Okay. Next we have Jewish Jewish Heritage Month and it's going to be accepted by Tara Berman. Oh, there you go. Hi, Tara.

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>> Thank you for tolerating Meg. Uh, Jewish American Heritage Month is celebrated each May to recognize and honor the contributions of Jewish Americans to the history, culture, and fabric of our nation. And whereas the history of Jewish Americans is a rich

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tapestry woven into the larger narrative of American life, marked by resilience, innovation, and dedication to social justice. Whereas the Jewish community has made significant contributions across diverse fields including education, science and business, the

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arts and public service, enriching our society and promoting a spirit of collaboration and mutual respect. And the Barrow of Hadenfield prides itself on celebrating diversity and fostering an inclusive community where all residents and visitors are recognized

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for their unique backgrounds. And whereas we encourage the people of Hatfield to participate in educational activities and community events during this month to learn about and reflect on the significant impact Jewish Americans have made in shaping our great nation.

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So therefore, be it resolved that the board of commissioners, Burough of Hadenfield, County of Camden, and state of New Jersey do hereby proclaim May 2026 as Jewish American Heritage Month. And so receiving this tonight is Tara Berman who has served on the board of

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the Cherry Hill Catch JCC for 12 years currently as vice president and is the president-elect. Congratulations. She is also on the board of trustees for the Kelman Brown Academy, a Jewish day school in Vorhees. Tara, you have been a resident for 14 years

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and her son Noah was one of the founding members of the HMHS Jewish-American Cultural Club in 20121 and her daughter Meera is a current junior and officer of the club. Thank you for coming tonight. >> Yes. All right, guys.

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>> Thank you. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. Yes. >> Uh the next proclamation is mental health awareness month and we have Heather and Phil Fitzer in

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the audience to accept proclamation. Um whereas May is recognized as mental health awareness month, a time dedicated to raising awareness about mental health issues and supporting those affected by mental illness. Whereas the mental health is an integral part of overall

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health and well-being and the stigma surrounding mental health challenges and their treatment needs to be addressed. And whereas one in five adults experiences a mental health issue each year affecting millions of individuals and families within our community and beyond. And it is vital to encourage

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open conversations about mental health, promote mental wellness, and provide access to supportive resources for those in need. And New Jersey has successfully built and continues to expand its robust array of effective, responsive, integrated services and support for

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children, youth, and adults, and recognizes the need for opportunities that allow them to heal from trauma. And New Jersey has implemented and incorporated 988 or 988, I'm sorry, 988, the national three-digit dialing code

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for anyone having thoughts of suicide or experiencing mental health or substance abuse crisis. And New Jersey is making great strides in reducing discrimination associated with a mental health diagnosis by instilling hope and by providing access to health care and to a

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wide array of community-based human and social services that assist individuals with mental illness to live a dignified life with the supports and services they need to thrive. Whereas the BAR of Hadenfield is committed to fostering an inclusive environment that prioritizes

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mental well-being, encourages accessing mental health services, and supports individuals with their recovery journeys. And throughout May, we encourage community members to participate in events and activities to raise awareness, support mental health initiatives, and advocate for positive

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change. So whereas activities such as exercise, mindfulness activities, social connections, unplugging from the news and social media, pursuing a hobby, it says hobby, spending time in nature and self-care

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may support well you should support a hobby too, right? uh support mental health and therefore let it be resolved by the the board of commissioners bar of Hadfield County of Canon and the state of New Jersey to hereby proclaim May 2026 as mental health awareness month

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and I will thank my therapist Tom Treadwell. Thank you. next older Americans month and my voice is getting dry. Would you like to read this? >> Happy to. >> All right. I handed it to Commissioner Cole as she is in portfolio of Mabel Kay

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is under her purview. Whereas the month of May is traditionally designated older Americans month by the US Department of Health and Human Services. And whereas the theme for older Americans month May 2026 is Champion Your Health, which focuses on

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prevention, wellness, and active management of health for older adults. And whereas the Burough of Hadenfield includes countless older Americans who enrich and strengthen our community. And whereas the B bureau of Hadenfield is committed to engaging and supporting older adults, their families and

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caregivers. And whereas we acknowledge the importance of taking part in activities that promote physical, mental, and emotional well-being, no matter your age. And whereas the burrow of Hadenfield can enrich the lives of indiv individuals of every age by promoting home and community based

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services that support independent living involving older adults in community planning events and other activities providing opportunities for older adults to work, volunteer, learn, lead, and mentor. So therefore be proclaimed that the board of commissioners of the Burough of Hadenfield do hereby proclaim

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May 2026 as older Americans month. and Burough residents are encouraged to take time during this month to acknowledge and recognize older adults as vital parts of our community. And accepting for um for this proclamation is Sher Seagull, who is the Mabel K Senior

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Center uh director. Uh and the center offers a robust selection of activities both physical and non-physical for Hatenfield residents 55 years and older. They strive to be a welcoming community where you can meet some new friends and neighbors, drink a cup of coffee, maybe

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learn a new skill, and congregate in a safe place outside of your house. Sherry serves as the executive director older um for older Americans month. Sherry serves as the executive director of the center, and she will be accepting. Thank you.

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I have a question called PMDX. I like to call >> I know this. That was fun. Yes, but haven't gone anywhere with that. >> The Golden Kazoos are playing uh United Methodist Communities, Collinswood. Uh

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the Golden Kazoos are a lively bunch. Not quite the pickup band, David, but uh getting way more gigs. Oh, he here he has a band ready to go. >> And the last proclamation we read by Commissioner Troy for teacher

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appreciation week. >> All right. Uh so uh this is teacher appreciation week and uh in addition to just the fact that Dave is maybe losing his voice, which is a blessing in disguise. I'm just kidding. Uh

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uh is uh one that's near and dear passion to my heart. Uh my mom was a a third-year school teacher who retired from Haden Heights uh high school as a honors English teacher back in 2006. So uh this is our proclamation. Uh whereas

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teachers play an essential role in the lives of children by instilling a lifelong love of learning, nurturing curiosity and creativity and helping students reach their fullest potential. Whereas the teachers of Hadenfield through their dedication, professionalism, and compassion strengthen the very foundation of our

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schools and community. And whereas the Hadenfield Education Association representing our outstanding educators, is a vital partner in the life of our burrow, not only in the classroom, but also through their leadership and participation, enriching community events open to all. Whereas the efforts of the Hadenfield Education Association

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reflect a deep commitment to service, inclusion, and building connections among residents of all ages. Whereas teacher appreciation week provides a special opportunity to honor, recognize, and express our gratitude to the educators who make a lasting difference every day. Therefore, be it proclaimed

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that the burrow, I'm sorry, the board of commissioners of the burough of Hadenfield does hereby recognize the week of May 4th through May 8th, 2026 as teacher appreciation week. And on behalf uh of the proclamation is

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Bethany Lao. Uh Bethany is a computer science teacher at uh Hadenfield Memorial High School and Miss Holly Penna who is not available were named Hadenfield's educators of the year for 2026. So round of applause for that. >> Prior to this, Bethany also taught

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biology, chemistry, and math. Uh while at the high school, she has created two programs, the computer science program and robotics. She explained that if she had unlimited time and resources, she would create a drone flying, drone programming, and drone uh completing uh club. She believes that drone flying

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would be very relevant in the future and having a drone flying club here would be beneficial for the school. She hopes that all of her students that graduate remember how much she cares about them and that they can do amazing things, especially under the guidance of amazing

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teachers. So, thank you very much. And on July 3rd, instead of fireworks, we will be having a drone show. So hopefully that might encourage students to understand how they're programmed in in sequence. Mostly made out.

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Thank you. and congratulations again on your uh teacher of the year sitting next to another one. All right. Thank you for uh for the proclamations. Uh, next we're going to open the floor for public comment on

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items listed on the agenda. And before we do that, if if you want to be excused, uh, be you're more than happy to stay for the entire meeting or you can be excused. Uh, it is also May is also AP test month, you know, so I'm sure there's a lot of studying that

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needs to go on. >> Right on. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Wow. >> Thank you. Hi. >> So again, public comment period for items listed on the agenda. These would be anything on the agendas E, E, and F

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uh or G or actually A, B, and C as well. But we've already covered those. Uh five minutes on the clock and if if there's more comment that you need and when everyone's done, you get an extra minute and a half if you need it. Uh can I get

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a motion to open for public comment? Motion to open for public comment. >> I second. >> Commissioner Cole >> in favor. >> Commissioner Troy >> in favor. >> Commissioner Sidell >> in favor. Um floor is open. We'll recognize David Hunter.

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Windsor Avenue. >> 260 Windsor Avenue. I'm doing my best for the team as you can. I'm waiting for the call from the bullpen. Um, so I want to thank you for withdrawing the proposed ordinance and

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for deciding to discuss it before introducing it. Um, you're well aware of my concerns from two emails that I sent in recent times. Um, but I want to address the easiest concerns first, which are C4 and C5, if you can look at

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that. C4 refers to an establishment governed by a class A manufacturing license. C5 refers to a professional service use type one, two, or three business.

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So, I would ask you to include language that gives readers of this ordinance a reference for what a class A manufacturing license is and what a professional service use business is. When I first went looking for the meanings, I found the answer for class A

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in a New Jersey statute. And I discovered that the reference in the original ordinance to class B was incorrect. Fortunately, that has been changed. When I tried to find out what a professional service use type 1, two, or three business is, I also found an answer in a state statute. It relates to

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doctors, lawyers, and accountants and folks like that. Made sense to me. Except that's not the reference that the author of the ordinance intended. The correct reference, believe it or not, is in the Burough's land use ordinance. Really,

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I'm not disputing that now. Just asking you to include appropriate references in the text. I need not remind you of promises you all made during the 2025 election campaign to make Hadenfield's municipal government more open and userfriendly. This is an easy step along

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the way. The item that concerns me the most is the last one, C7. I don't have a problem with increasing the number of residents on the partnership's board to two from one. I think it's a good move, but I'm appalled

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that anyone would believe it might not be possible to find two residents who would be willing to serve on the board. First, let me remind you of the reason the original authors of the legislation provided for representation from the

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residential community. It was to ensure that the partnership had the benefit of outside dispassionate non-b businessiness viewpoints and they had that for many years. It's often been said that a downtown is like the front porch of a house. You can

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tell a lot about the condition of the house by the condition of the front porch. But the front porch is not the whole house and a downtown is not the whole town. It's important for those who manage the downtown to remember that they operate within a context, the

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context of the whole town. Members of the partnership board should welcome input from the wider community because they and the downtown will benefit from it. The professional service you type 1, two, and three, that's class C5,

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provides for representation from tailor, cobblers, dry cleaners, barbers, muticians, manicurists, massage therapists, tattoo artists, fortune tellers, palm readers, tarot card readers, life coaches, dance instructors, and yoga instructors.

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If we eliminate the cobblers, tattoo artists, fortune tellers, palm readers, and tarot card readers, because there are none in Havenfield as I know, how many businesses are we left with? The dry cleaners, barbers, muticians, manicurists, massage therapists, life coaches, dance instructors, and yoga

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instructors. Perhaps 50 at the most. Yet, the language proposes that there shall be two representatives from that class of use. By contrast, how many residents are there? Well, if you take those who are aged between 25 and 65, there are about

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6,000. What's the chance you can get two representatives from 6,000 people? Certainly much higher than getting from the 50 manicurists and life coaches. Yet, the language proposes that if two

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residents cannot be found, the commissioners may appoint individuals who qualify under another class. Surely if it's appropriate to have that exit ramp for the resident class, it's also appropriate to have it for the professional service use.

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That said, I think it's absolutely inappropriate to have that language for the resident class anyway. Why? Because, as I said, you're looking for two representatives from a pool of 6,000 once every 3 years. I cannot believe the three commissioners

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who among them must know hundreds if not thousands of residents would not be able to recruit two volunteers once every three years. That's part of the job finding good people to serve on burough boards and commissions and on the partnership of Hadenfield.

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Incidentally, one easy way you can find residents is to let them know that vacancies exist. The burough and the partnership used to do that years ago in the pages of local newspapers. >> I'd like you to finish your sentence. >> I do. >> Sherry Seagull, who was here before,

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applied for that job because she saw the vacancy advertised in a local newspaper. Lissa Willis, the executive director of Interfaith Caregivers, not a burough agency. Same thing. She saw that in the local newspaper. Publicize vacancies.

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people will volunteer when they're asked and will know of opportunity and and when they know of opportunities that are available. I have more to say but I don't want to abuse my time limit >> but I appreciate the fact that you're going to be looking at this later on and

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I and I trust that you'll take my comments and concerns into account. Thanks David. >> Thank you. >> Any other in any other in the room? Okay, moving to online. Any comments online for items listed on the agenda?

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Raise your hand to be recognized. Seeing none, I'll make a motion to close public comment on agenda items. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Voting on that motion. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Troy >> in favor. >> Commissioner Sidell >> in favor. Uh, next we're going to be

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moving to ordinances. So, we have two public hearings and we're going to be introducing one, two, 3, 4, five ordinances. So, we'll go through the public hearings first. Uh, ordinance 20264,

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preservation of the bank cap, uh, the cap bank. Sorry, I want to be official to read it the way it says. Uh, this is the public hearing. So, this public hearings will have their own comment period uh for those that to make comment before this would become law. Uh so, I'm

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going to make a motion to open the floor for public comment for the public hearing for 26 202604 preservation of cap bank. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Voting on that motion. Commissioner Cole in favor. >> Commissioner Troy >> in favor.

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>> Commissioner Sidell >> in favor. Floor is open for comment. Seeing none in the room, moving online. Seeing none, I'm going to make a motion to close public comment and approve 20264

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preservation of cap bank on its second reading. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Voting on that motion. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Troy >> in favor. >> Commissioner Sidell >> in favor. Next 2026

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non-UN salary and wages. This is the second reading in public comment. And I will make a motion to open the floor for for the public hearing on non-union salaries and wages. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Voting on that motion. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Troy >> in favor.

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>> Commissioner Sidell >> in favor. The floor is open for public comment on non-UN salaries and wages. Seeing none in the room, moving online. Seeing none, I'd like to move to close public comment and accept and approve

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2026 non-union salary and wages on its second reading. Can I get a second? >> Second. Voting on that motion. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Troy >> in favor. >> Commissioner Sidell >> in favor. Yeah. I just I move to close and approve.

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>> Yeah. >> Uh the next this is the introduction of 20267 amending chapter 11.4 entitled fire prevention. Uh Chief, you want to just kind of give a what it's all what's

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what's the force? Sorry. No, I have to be up here at the deis. I mean at the at the lect turn this is uh we've been uh charging through the burrow through fire inspection a lot less for our inspections than our surrounding towns.

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Um so what this is is roughly a 25% increase um on the fees for uh the various inspections that we do. It's commensurate with our surrounding townships. >> And just one other comment um this is a

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user fee. So this is trying to cover the cost and even with this increase it is getting closer to covering the cost of the inspections but we're not quite there yet. >> So just >> right. Oh, thanks Sharon. And and this is the theme of from our work session of

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last time of of really looking at usergenerated fees uh user generated costs at the burrow and and appropriately uh moving the cost of things out of the general property tax fund and into user into user generated

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funds. Uh so uh if you could stay there because the second one is the next one. So, uh I would like to make a motion to um introduce uh actually can I get a motion to introduce uh chapter amending

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chapter 114 uh entitle fire prevention? >> Uh motion to amend uh chapter 114 entitled fire prevention on first reading also ordinance 226-07.

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>> Second the motion. Voting on that motion. Commissioner Cole >> in favor. >> Commissioner Troy >> in favor. >> Commissioner Sidell >> in favor. Uh and next we're introducing the 2026 08 creating a new chapter 115

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entitled fires outdoor and open burning for its first reading. Um >> very easy. We want the fires to be uh clean and contained. Uh up to this point, we really had very limited amount of uh ordinances that we could apply to

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any open bo burning. Uh we've seen more people starting to burn some trash. Um open leaves, embers are burning on the other properties. Um we get dispatched, we go out to these residences and we really didn't have much to enforce. This kind of gives us the power to enforce

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various fines for the open burning and encourage safe open burning. No. If you're going to have a little chimney or a fireplace, of course, uh or or something uh barbecue, we're not looking at those. But this open burning, we've

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had a couple incidents here in town uh that we could have used this ordinance to enforce an open burning act. >> And during code orange and code red drought condition, this would also give you the opportunity. >> Correct. Even with the rain that we've had, we're still in a drought within the state. So this kind of gives us some

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more leverage for applying uh safety. >> All right. Great. So can I get a can I get a Yeah. What am I thinking of? This is this is sleep kicking in. >> Can I get a motion to introduce uh creating a new chapter 115 entitled fires outdoor and open burning?

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>> All right. Uh motion to introduce 2026-08 creating new chapter 115 entitled fires outdoor and open burning on first reading. >> I second that motion. >> Voting on that motion. Commissioner Cole >> in favor. >> Commissioner Troy >> in favor. >> Commissioner say

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>> in favor. Uh next is amending is ch is is 20269 introducing the amending of chapter 48 entitled recreation utility on its first reading. So I'll describe these. This is not any changes to the fees or agreements for uh organized

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sports in town. This is additional fees that will cover the rental and u set aside of tennis courts for forprofit for-profit coaching uh as well as the

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ability for the bureau to set pricing and collect fees for advertising on burrow own fields and properties. Um, since this falls under my purview, I'm going to ask I'm going to make a motion

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to introduce 202609 amending chapter 48 of recreation utility. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Voting on that motion. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Troy >> in favor. >> Commissioner Sidell >> in favor. And so you'll see we each have

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our own things from that we're we're tidying up. The next is an introduction of 2026-10 amending chapter 199 entitled streets and sidewalks in its first reading. Uh Sharon. >> Sure. Um this ordinance again comes from

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the construction office. It's just as you indicated, just trying to correct a couple of inconsistencies um in the ordinance compared to actual action that's taking place. Uh and insisting that um the any

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uh the proper person for those permits is actually the zoning officer and not the burough clerk. >> Great. Thank you. So, I'll I'll ask for a motion to introduce Chapter 199's amendments entitled Streets and

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Sidewalks. Can I get a motion? >> Yes. I'd like to make the motion to amend Wait, Streets and Sidewalks. >> Mhm. >> Uh to amend chapter 199 entitled Streets and Sidewalks for the first reading. >> And I'll second that.

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>> On that motion, Commissioner Cole >> in favor. >> Commissioner Troy >> in favor. >> Commissioner Sidell >> in favor. And the last introduction is 202611 introducing an amendment to chapter 135 entitled land use of various articles on its first reading. And

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Sharon, this one will take a little bit of explanation. >> Absolutely. Um so there we're addressing a number of changes um in this ordinance at various sections throughout 135 which is our land use code. Um the first one is back in 2018 we had made amendments

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to the height of um buildings within the various residential sections. When that ordinance was passed there was one error in it that was picked up at a later date. Um and we are correcting that at this point. So zone R7 is uh being

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changed to 32 feet which is what it was supposed to be at that time. Um, the next big change you'll see in there, our five-year moratorum for the cannabis regulations, uh, is due up in July, and we are extending that. Um, we are

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extending the fact that we will not be allowing cannabis facilities within Hadenfield for another 5 years. Um, also included in this is that fence regulations, fences must be installed within the lot line, not on the lot line. And the last uh change is just as

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fees have changed over time, we are are correcting the fees for professional services uh and indicating that those fees will be charged appropriately to the escros. And that is the the gist of the changes that are pres

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presented before you as well as increasing zoning permit fees to $50 from $30. >> Thank you, Sharon. And this falls under public affairs which is commissioner for Troy. So I'll ask for a motion to amend

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chapter 135 our land use law. Motion to amend chapter 135 in the land use various articles uh ordinance 2026-11. >> Okay. Second that motion. >> Voting on that motion. Commissioner Cole. >> Yeah. In favor.

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>> Commissioner Troy >> in favor. >> Commissioner Sidell >> in favor. So that's all of our ordinances. Next, we'll move to resolutions under the consent agenda. Resolutions in the consent agenda have been placed on that agenda by the board of commissioners and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate

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discussion of these items unless requested by a commissioner. Uh they are 044 authorization to play to pay vouchers. 45. Authorization to grant total exempted veteran status and cancellation

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refund of the 2026 2027 property taxes. 46. Authorization to approve general event permit applications various. Uh 47. Authorization for Friends of the Indian King Tavern Museum to hold the annual skirmish event.

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48. Authorization to approve appointment fire department active members. Authorization. 49. Authorization to sign professional service agreement for various professional services if financial adviser and affordable housing administrative agent.

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50. Authorization to apply for recycling tonnage grant. 51. An authorization to advertise for sealed bids for solid waste and recycling materials collection services. 52. Authorization to renew membership in the Southern New Jersey

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Regional Employee Benefit Fund and sign the indemnity trust agreement. 53. Authorization to award a bid in the 2026 road program. And 54, an authorization to reject bids for cleaning of public

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bathrooms. Uh can I get I can I get a motion for the consent agendas items 44 through 54? Motion to approve resolutions on consent agenda numbers 44 through 54.

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>> Any discussion or any asks for clarification on any of these? >> I did have a question on why a sealed bid for number 51. Can we speak to the meaning behind a sealed bid? >> Sure. Um, anytime we put a bid out, it

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is a sealed bid so that other vendors are not aware of what bids uh other organizations are putting in for. So, all bids are received into the clerk's office in a sealed envelope stating that

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they are a a for a bid package. And at one date and time, we open the um the bids so that all numbers that are being bid are

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are announced at the same time. >> Does it answer your question? Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. And one thing about the uh authorization to award bid, I caught it and I didn't have enough time to uh email it. I think it says 2025 uh in the the details.

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>> Double check that for me. >> Which one? >> Uh 53. >> And just on that resolution, we are awarding the base bid and not the alternate bid. So, we did have to knock out one road um that was originally proposed uh due to costs.

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>> Okay. Can I maybe want you have a question? >> Yep. >> I'll fix that. Thank you. >> Well, I was going to say uh and we're rejecting all bids for cleaning public bathrooms. Um >> so that um the price that we are using through the company we are using through

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state contract uh is cheaper than the pricing we got through the bids. >> Okay. So, we're going to go to state contract. So, we will not reintroduce a bid for that. >> Correct. We will be moving forward with using the state contract. >> Yes, you got it. You got what I wanted.

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>> Okay. Oh, that one >> that was >> Oh, okay. Uh, and David, we approve the event times, but there's built-in setup and breakdown times in those in those things. So, if if it's 7:00 when the crafters get

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there, it's when they get there. Uh so um we've had the motion, we've had the discussion. Any any >> a second >> and a second? >> We have a second. >> Yep. >> No, I second. Okay. >> I introduced.

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>> Yeah. So I think we can call a question. >> Voting on that motion. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Troy >> in favor. >> Commissioner Sidell >> in favor. Uh so now we're going to move to G item for discussion by the commissioners. Uh

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this is ordinance 202605 amending chapter 197 special improvement district. Um it was originally introduced in our March 2020 or March 23rd meeting and further amendments were subsequently made uh which we will be discussing further now. So floor is open

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for us to discuss special improvement district first reading ordinance that we will introduce at our next action meeting. >> Yeah, just to give context, this is in response to the uh email from Mr. Hunter

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and his comments. Just wanted us to have a second to discuss them and see if we wanted to make any additional amendments um before we introduce fully. and his comments were I'm happy to read some of this from the email um and the comments

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that you made earlier today which was that he wanted us to specify class class A manufacturing license versus professional services use types 1 2 and three in the language of the ordinance. Um he also suggested um we fold

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professional services into category one and uh that we clarify that commissioners a second commissioner cannot serve on the um on the partnership for Hadenfield. Some of these seemed straightforward. I know we had some emails back and forth making

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sure we um respond to some of these. Uh Sharon, I can read the some of this, but if you'd like to respond in person. >> Sure. Um so the professionals, the reason the

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um hold on one second, let me pull it up here. The category was pulled out for professional services type 1, two, and three. And as David indicated in his comments earlier, that is how we classify them under land use so that we know um what the businesses is truly

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classified as. For example, we have a retailer who believes that they are a restaurant, but they're not. They're a retailer. So, it's it's making sure what if we have to check what a person is classified as, we go back to the construction office and say, "What was the permit approved for?" So, that's why

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we're using the land use regulations. we can certainly pull out and include in addition to those classifications the possible titles that are listed in there. However, you would then have to change the section anytime you make a change to

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that portion of the land use code. Um and the reason that they were separated from the professionals where he is indicating that we should put them back in with the professionals is that um over the years we have gotten a number

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of complaints from some of the services that he talked about because they were not the folks appointed to the board and they did not have input on the board and were um felt that some of the events and stuff could be arranged around to better incorporate and support the whole

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downtown rather than just the retailers. Um, and so the idea that we've been talking about and and banding about for a number of years has been the ability to expand uh the categories that we have to make sure that truly all of the

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downtown is represented. Um the classification, we use the classification for the manufacturing uh um class A because that's how the state classifies them. Originally when we presented it to the partnership, we

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had more spelled out the types of services. Um, and it was a request from them that we put it in as their title because that's how they're classified by the state and that was why it was presented to you as such. Um, the

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question regarding the resident, the language that was put in there with regards to being able to go from a resident that also may classify or may qualify for one of the other categories was a request from the partnership. Um,

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obviously your intent and the partnership's intent would always be to be able to fill that with a resident, but if for some reason you were not able to, they didn't want the vacancy to sit on the board. Um, and then also we have

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a resident classification in almost every single of our our boards, but we have never qualified that we can't appoint a commissioner to it. Um the commissioners have just never thought the need to do that and we don't clarify that in any of our other boards when we

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when we put in a resident position. >> I see. So for parody, would we then make that adjustment to all of our other boards? >> I I mean if you feel a a need to do so, we've never had a situation um where the commissioners have tried to

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appoint a second commissioner to a board. The only one legally that anyone has ever, you know, could do it is um planning board. And all of the mayors since I've been around have always appointed someone else to fill their shoes.

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>> And planning board is a it is recorded with the secretary. It has legal counsel. It is a truly public meeting that is that is announced >> sunshine >> a sunshine law. So to have more than one commissioner would fundamentally change the partnership for Anfield. Uh and I

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don't think anybody wants to do that. Uh the I I'm going to Sharon I agree with you. I there is clarity for the public but then there is also the practicality of a law. So, I would rather see it as an appendix or or you know, it's it's

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funny, you know, coming from the school board, I we always had the we had we had the law and then we had the the the governing document or basically the operating document. Uh, and this would be one of those types of situations where we would stick with the legal

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definitions of these classifications, but then have a user-friendly kind of uh document that could be could could go along with it to explain the different types that we actually have. So, we we don't have tarot readers, but we have

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plenty of nail services. We have plenty of hairdressers. Uh, and if you ever try to book a barber in this town anymore, good luck without an appointment because that's how in, you know, in in in demand they are. And and I I'm not on the

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partnership for Hadfield, but I'm a downtown buyer of goods and services. And and I do hear those complaints that that there feel that they're under represented uh in in some of the activities that we have. you know, Haddie could have a

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birthday. Hadtie could need a haircut, right? Hattie could have their nails done. And it's not just, you know, buy dinosaur ensemble clothing from one of the very from the various things or and even the restaurants, you know, u talking about the skirmish event just

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for example and I I can see the hustle of of the reenactors of trying to have a retail theme to have a service theme to have a restaurant theme around the skirmish. It's it's hard because it's

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not a coord because the voices of those organizations aren't in the partnership as the as a protected class so that their voice is always heard and that's the really the intention of these things. So I I'm really encouraged. I agree with the comments about the user

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friendliness of it but I don't want to see it in the legal language. I'd rather see it as a appendix or a companion document. We can always create that uh user friendly explanation and put it under the partnership for Hadenfields

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page on our website. And then usually when we put um our advertising out which is mostly done through social media now for our boards um is to uh again we would not put the explanation of what's in the ordinance for that position. We

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would say we are looking for people that fill these various types of um roles and we would explain what who qualifies in that. >> Yeah. I mean think about like Mecca Chocolate or Downtown Cookies. They cook. I mean they make their stuff. They are retail but their primary business

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isn't either of those. It's packaged goods and shipping, you know, and mail order. So like that's why the state classification. What what's their business license say is is really what we should be going by here. Uh, so that that's just my comment.

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>> You have any comment on that, Frank? >> Um, I do I think I I understand what you're what you're trying to say here, but um I uh in any ordinance I don't like cross referencing another ordinance that you run the risk of it not being updated.

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So, um, you know, if we have to make a a companion, I don't know if it if it resides in the in, you know, in this ordinance or if it resides with the partnership for Hadenfield, I'm fine with that. I just don't want things referencing one another because >> Right. You're saying you're saying you

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have you have the >> So, are you asking to change it and list all the details in this particular ordinance regardless of what our land use ordinance says or keep it in the land use and just not put the details here and have it some a separate document that's not affected by this

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ordinance? >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Okay. >> Does that mean there is an edit here or no? >> No. What he's saying is we keep what what we have here and this companion document which is not part of the ordinance details everything out so that

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way you're not taking a legal action if for some reason and we've had to do this obviously it's why we have a professional services one two and three because different types we did have tarot card readers we did have different people that have popped in town and the

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decisions made at those times was that they didn't want them in the core of the downtown. So therefore, you have the three different kinds of categories that are allowed in different we have four we have technically five different zones for the downtown district. And so therefore you those different services

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are allowed in different portions of the downtown in zones. So you could have some new service that we don't currently have listed that comes down the pike that may fall under one of those and we might have to make a change and decide which of those three it's in or create a

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fourth one. And >> you could have a retail shop that cuts hair. >> Yes, you could. You have we we have a number of different types of things that um sneak in um over the years. And >> gas and IV. I don't even know what to

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classify that store, you know, the hangover store. >> Well, and that's and that's just it. It's it's one of those things that there are constantly new things coming down the pike. So I think what Frank's what I'm hearing from what Frank's saying is leave this this with the with how we are

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explaining what it is. If the land used ordinance changes, this doesn't need to be changed at the same time >> unless the land use ordinance adds a category. >> Unless the land use ordinance adds a category. So if if you're just adding something into one of those two threes, the companion document that we can

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create to make it easier for people to understand, that can be changed at any time because that's just a companion document and doesn't need approval for anything. >> Can we at least clarify in here that these definitions are per the land use um uh rules that we have?

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>> Sure. >> Could we make that adjustment to make it clear where to go to find the definitions of these things? Um, I think that there is a balance, right? I know a lot of these changes are coming through because they're being requested from the partnership for Hadenfield who are folks

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on the ground who are trying to make, you know, run this organization and um uh and and help bring liveless to downtown. So, I understand that they have needs that we're basing these off of. Um, and I really appreciate Mr.

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Hunter's comments and diligence to to read through this and find some of these gaps. So I do want to find some way to negotiate between the find an in between ground. Um so if we can just make minor modifications here to refer to the land use um document so we know where to go

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for that. And then I I don't think the intent is to um give up on finding residents. I think the intent very much is to find residents. This is a fall back if that doesn't work. And I I think we we are all committed to finding folks who fall

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and are into that category and are interested in doing that. It has been hard, you know, going through my own uh role at Exo Friends. Um but I think this is a fail I I see it as a fail safe, not a primary option. So that would be my my

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one piece of comment there. But so we would make a modification here to refer to the land use um language and otherwise we would introduce it. >> Yeah. And you and you have two options. I mean Dave you said initially that we would introduce at the next meeting. You

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can verbally make those changes that you're you know because you're it's an introduction tonight. So we we will have those changes before it's advertised. If you can verbally say we're introducing this ordinance with the following changes, we can make those changes so

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that it's advertised appropriately and then you could still have second reading public hearing and second reading in May or you can in wait introduced in May. That's you have both commitment here. >> The one reason we were trying to get this on was because their um appointments are due up in May and we

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wanted to make this shift when we were doing appointments. We can just hold off on those appointments until June. >> Okay. uh seven uh in the two residents of Hatfield. S is is the languaged addition would the language addition of if such

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residents cannot be found after a good faith effort is good faith effort actually have legal standing or legal definition. I mean >> I got that from J. >> Yeah. No, I know it's it's yes, there there is a definition of a good faith

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effort, but I can't quantify for you to say that that's 10 searches or 15 searches. I mean, >> and and I don't necessarily want to do that. I just want to specify. Yeah. Well, I if we added that if that we added that phrase after we found after a

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good faith effort, >> yeah, >> it it would might discourage the parking that we that I think we've witnessed in the past of of shuffling board members by more encouraging them to stay active

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people in subcommittee that you don't have to be a board member. there just has to be a board member kind of heading that subcommittee. >> Uh I did this when I took over Maple K. There were a couple people that, you know, they weren't really residents anymore, but they're still valuable and their contributions are still

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meaningful. Uh except they didn't qualify, but they absolutely qualify under the subcommittee. So, I still got to cook, you know, burgers with Jay with Jay, you know, even though he wasn't a board member anymore. It wasn't like he was going to quit on cooking hamburgers and hot dogs with me. Uh, and I think

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the same thing goes here. So, I would like to see that language just to just to discourage that discourage in the ordinance. >> It's current I want it in there. Yeah. >> Wait. So that I get what >> under seven

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>> under seven. What? What is that language? >> Yeah. Is that now? >> Yeah. I just wanted to say that good faith effort is important to me in that section. >> Okay. So I guess so I guess the the answer is a good faith effort. It doesn't define it to make it an objective that you know the commissioner

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shall question 20 residents. I mean it's it's not so hard and fast. I mean a good faith effort maybe 50 people and maybe five >> but as long as there's an effort put forth that that's demonstrable. So you're not locked into asking 20 people if they

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want to serve. That's why I think a good faith effort or reasonable effort. >> Sure. >> Appropriate. And then and then in terms of advertising, the two examples that that that David brought up, we're both paid positions. Right. >> Right. So that's actually we legally have to advertise for the job. Uh that's

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different than volunteer positions that we advertise when we are out of options, right? So, uh, we >> an advertisement in this sense could also apply because if it's advertised in local newspapers, if it's run for a period of 30, 60, 90 days, I think

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that's a good faith effort and if you don't get responses, that's a sufficient amount of time to advertise. So, it still allows you to choose to advertise if you want to do that for a period of time. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you, >> Sam.

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>> All right. So, I what I'm hearing is we are going to make a few modifications here. We're going to come back in June for the introduction. May May, I'm sorry. May >> introduce May, adopt in June. >> Got it. Sorry. For some reason, I >> Yeah, there's no real reason to give the bubs rush on this one. So, I would

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rather not edit on the fly. >> Frank, you have an opinion on that? I'm fine with the timing. All right. Thanks. >> Great. >> All right. Thanks for the discussion. Uh, now I'm going to open the floor for public comment on anything. Uh, I'll

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make the motion to open the floor for public comment. Five minutes. Can I get a second? I'll second. >> Voting on that motion. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Troy >> in favor. >> Commissioner Sidell >> in favor. Lur recognizes David Hunter,

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Windsor Avenue. >> Same address. >> Um, >> you don't need to give the number. You just need to give the street. Uh I I just want to clarify based on this discussion that was just had. I'm not suggesting that manicurists and

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tattoo artists and so on be included in the act that all of that be included in the language. >> Yeah. >> I'm just saying say land use ordinance whatever it is. >> Right. >> Okay. And so all of that was really irrelevant, right? Whe because if if you add uh uses or you take uses away in the

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land use ordinance doesn't matter because you're just saying it's in the ordinance. But the other one then relates to the um the state statute >> um for the uh >> I have that changed. >> All right, that you just put that in.

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That's all that's all you need. Um the other thing is this and I what I said was you're putting in an exit ramp or I'm calling for the resident class and saying if we can't find two residents then we can appoint people from the other classes and I think you

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need the same exit for the professional use class because what if you can't find two manicurists or two whatever they are then what do you do well the currently that language is not providing for an alternative. So why not use the

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same language from the resident thing and put that in the professional use thing so that you've got an alternative if you can't find two people from that area. Right. >> I hear I I see it as more of a put up or shut up though, you know, so that each

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of the classes has the opportunity to seat people on that board and we're protecting that voice. So if it's vacant in those categories, it's vacant in those categories, but we don't want the resident one vacant at all. So if if if the if the board, and this is my

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opinion, right? So if the board gets out of balance because say like two hairdressers and only they they can't get two of the hairdressing businesses in town to put members in that class on that board. Well,

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>> then the No, but then the opportunity is always there for them to do that. >> But I would be more comfortable leaving that one vacant, but never have the resident one vacant. >> Even if that means >> Yes, but the resident one, if it's filled, it's going to be filled from one

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of the other categories. It's not being filled. >> No, but you're saying But but what you're saying is any of those that don't have fulfilling fulfilling obligations. So take the hairdressers, right? So if there aren't two, you want exit ramp language so that we can place another

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one on there. No, because then it would actually get even more unbalanced because if there weren't two hairdressers, then you're going to have another lawyer in that seat plus lawyer two more lawyers, not using lawyers, but we have 600 of them. Uh, you know, in

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the resident spot as well. I'd only want that on-ramp, not the resident one and not in the others. But and that's the problem with the resident language because if for some reason you can't find two residents then it's going to become unbalanced. >> No, but that's okay because I I mean personally for me I always want the

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resident one filled because that at least that is a tenant resident. Right. It it's >> but it's not being filled with a resident. It's being filled with a retailer. It's being filled with a restaurant tour. It's being filled with >> also a resident >> with somebody from the other category >> who is also a resident.

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>> They they would have to still be a resident. They wouldn't be um they wouldn't just be a retailer who lives outside of town. They would be a resident and a retailer. So someone like Paper Trail, for example. >> Okay. Well, as I said before, I would hope that that would never happen, >> right?

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>> Well, so do we. But we your hope and your hope and our practicalness of finding volunteers that can commit three years. That's a that's a >> Do you find it on other boards? >> Uh >> find it on every other board. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Yes. Yes, we do have problems getting

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residents to approve. >> Okay. But we find that same thing on everyone, >> but publicize. >> There are there are certain boards, again, my opinion, there are certain boards that can withstand turnover. We

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don't want that kind of turnover. We want more consistency downtown. Let me ask what would happen if um you didn't find the two residents and you appointed uh two residents from another category. >> Mhm.

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>> And then a pure resident comes along in the middle of a term, right? And says, "Look, I'd really be interested in serving on that board." >> Well, we're not going to boot somebody off who's already made their commitment. No. >> Okay. >> But we'll put them on the list like we do all the time. If you if you look at any of our boards, some of the interest things go back two years and we reach

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out back to them and they say, "Are you still interested?" And they say, "Well, I got a little bit more, you know, I'm a little more aware of town." These are more newer people that a lot of times that sit on those lists that we pick from. >> I would urge you to really try to find pure residents. >> Oh, sure.

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>> The the board needs that kind of independent input. >> I'm not disagreeing with you. really needs that that kind of independent input. >> But for the resident portion, it needs to be filled more than the others. >> Mine or yours?

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>> Oh, no, never mind. Your time. >> Thanks. I I appreciate the thought that you put into this. >> All of you. >> Thank you. >> Uh any other comments on any anything? Oh, okay. Oh, good. You waited us out.

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you mentioned something, so I am going to come speak. My name is Joan Gilmore, 37 Ella Street. Um, the fees for the tennis courts. >> Yes. >> What's the purpose in that? >> Uh, the purpose in that is for to keep

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aside open courts for just anybody to walk up. But there are some residents, sometimes they're children, sometimes they're adults, that to be able to provide services that the residents want, like train, like tennis pro, uh

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they'd want to be able to guarantee that time and place. And for that, there is a fee structure for that. But that doesn't mean we would never close all the tennis courts for for fee. It would be a court or two uh for that those purposes. And

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we have that in other areas too where we just approved a birthday on an anniversary field. Somebody who just wants to have their kids run around privately, we charge them for it. It >> it's also we have a lot of leagues that come in >> and so it's to um if you have an outside league for that's not necessarily in

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town coming in, it's getting revenue coming in to help offset the maintenance on the court. >> Okay. So, as the mayor indicated, if you're not trying to reserve a time, there's no fee for using a tennis court, >> right? >> If you just go up and find an empty

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court, there's no fee for that. It's if you're trying to reserve a court for a specific purpose, then there's a fee for it. >> Okay. All right. Then, just cuz I was wondering, >> just cuz you said for the maintenance of the tennis courts >> cuz um I don't know, my son played

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tennis and it there wasn't much maintenance going on. So, I'm >> Well, we clean the bathroom. We blow the leaves off all the time. Uh, you know, so the there's maintenance. It It's not Well, >> power wash the uh the quartz. We

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repaired the fence uh the last goound, removed all the ivy and the poison ivy and uh and repaired some of the structural work uh my first term. Remember that? >> And then there's the cost of actually redoing the tennis courts. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah.

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>> So they become maintenance bonds, right? Like we maintenance fund to then resurface it after so many years, repaint the lines and things. >> Okay. Yeah. I was just wondering because I I can't imagine it's actually these fees are actually going to make enough money to be a drop in the bucket for the

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fees are. So it just sort of seems >> Yeah. Well, you'd be surprised. So we approved three leagues and four coaches for last summer and we didn't have this in place and we didn't charge them a thing. Uh but seeing the the usage that's the

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recreation commission uh the recreation utility wanted to set rates >> you know for that >> we did it anyway so now at least >> there's skin in the game for the person to show up >> or who >> well the league person

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>> yeah like so sometimes people just book the time and then they don't show up half the time because it was free >> okay >> and then another person can't use the court because it's reserved even though nobody is there as >> right just interesting. Okay, thank you. >> Sure. And then the other part of it was

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signage, you know, just putting up signs and getting sponsors. Yeah. Seeing none other from the room, uh, and seeing only reporters back on, uh, thing, I'm going to make a motion to close public comment on non-aggenda

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items. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Voting on the motion. Commissioner Cole in favor. Commissioner Troy. >> In favor, >> Commissioner Sidel >> in favor. We do not. Do we have any closed tonight? >> No. >> No. No closed to Yeah, but yeah, I was

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just making sure before. Yeah. Now, we have press online. I just wanted to make sure we weren't closed so I know how to close end the meeting. Uh, the floor is open to Lily and Matt. >> Lily, I'll defer to you if you want to go first. But I like the name. though.

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Oh, I thought she was I I thought Lily was another one of the reporters from the retrospect cuz remember we had Matt We had the big cheese last time. So, I think they're trying a new person. Uh, all right, Matt, you're up. Just a couple of questions about the um the

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revenues and stuff like that. I I I think um we heard uh from uh Chief Gorman that like the fire inspection fees are 25% u meant to sort of at least meant to sort of uh catch up with the stuff that's going on in other towns. Has there been any kind of projection

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about like what the construction code costs would bring in or keeping the money in escrow or is that going to be a thing that that earns interest while it's at escrow or just well I mean that's what escrow means but I I guess I'm just curious about you know so where where some of these things maybe

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math out to you know what kind of what kind of revenue they're going to bring in if that's been projected. >> Matt, you're you're confusing a number of things there. Um just so let me let me start with at the top and work my way down. So the fire inspection fees um you

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may recall I don't know probably 10 12 years ago at this point um the county used to run all fire um inspection services through the county level and they gave it up. And so the towns, many of the towns took it

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over. Some did uh you know shared service agreements with each other. Hadenfield brought their own fire inspectors on who are part-time employees. Um they are responsible for a number of different inspections including businesses downtown um and uh

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rental units. Um, so those fees generally we are, as I spoke to you before, construction fees, um, and these fire inspection fees are able to be at such a number so that you're offsetting your costs. We have not been offsetting

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our costs. We've only been bringing in about a half of the amount that we spend on this service for the past couple of ye for probably the past five years. Um, and so the fire marshall or the fire official and chief Gorman sat down and did an analysis of what the surrounding

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communities were charging. Um, because obviously we don't want to make a huge drastic jump and and scary one. So they did a a 25% increase cost um and that will that will start to bring in additional revenue um and therefore

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taxes aren't being used to offset that cost for that service. Um, so we anticipate with the 25%, you know, we'll still we'll still fall short of what our um costs are, but we will get there. So, we'll re-evaluate it at the end of a

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full year. So, it'll be sometime next year that we re-evaluate it probably after budget season. And um if we need to make another increase to to start to bring those fees up to where it does cover the cost, we'll look at that doing that in another year or so. Um the we

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talked about construction fees when you and I met the other week. Um those revenues, you know, we we do evaluate those periodically. Um we are currently bringing in um slightly more than what the cost of the office is. There's an annual report

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that is done uh to the state for that where we have to show what those fees are um what the revenue is coming in and what all of our expenses are for that department. Um and you mentioned the escros, the changes in land use for the escros. What was happening? The

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ordinance stated that um the fees that we would charge the residents for certain services like writing a resolution um or some other uh professional services would be a specific cost that the residents would

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pay. As we have moved on from those rates being set over 20 years ago, um costs for professionals has changed and those costs were not covering our expenses. So, we changed it so that those fees would be covered by um the

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escros that the residents put up when they come to file a planning board or zoning board application. Um that is just change that that's just making sure that those applicants are covering the cost for their project, >> right? That doesn't make us money. We're

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>> It does not make us money. There's it's not a fee we're collecting at all. It's money, you know, there was an escrow already set. We were just increasing the cost of the amount of the escrow to make sure it covers the fees that are being charged. Um so instead of the taxpayers

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paying anything to offset that, this solely goes to the escrow um and um those residents when they file an application give us funds, we put it in an escrow. Yes, that is an interest bearing escrow that if those funds are

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not fully spent, they would get whatever is remaining and if there was any interest accumulated during that time period it took for the application to go through. So it will generate revenue but it will I just want to make sure this is this escrow covers the amount of money

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that they would already be paying in fees. It just collects it up front. Is that what I understand? >> We we currently collect an escrow for these projects for for different professional service fees. We are increasing the amount of the escrow and charging all professional service fees

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associated with theirs. That's not a revenue. That is a that is an offset that goes into a separate bank account with a separate title for them and they any revenue that is any any funds that are left over after their application has proceeded through the board gets

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refunded to them. >> Yeah. Example, if you have $2,000 escrow, you spend $1,500 in professional fees like engineering, legal, uh, and it and it earned $3, you're getting $503

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back. >> We don't make the money. You just you get the you get any interest that's borne from the balance or, you know, during the life of that escrow account. >> Yeah, understood. But I guess I'm just saying you you guys are collecting the retainer up front and it's a bigger fee upfront. Is that what I understand? The

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changes are >> correct. >> It's not a fee. It's just an escrow. >> Okay. So, forgive me for the imprecision in the language. They're covering the fees, right? >> That it's different from the fees we charge for an application. >> Right. These are professional services fees. These are not like permits and

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applications, right? >> Yeah. Okay. You Yes. The fees that the applicants being charged are for the professional service fees. The money they are depositing is an escrow amount. Not to be confused with the fees the the

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fee payment we require to process their application. That's why you got to be careful of that wording because it's used in both both sides. One's a revenue, one's an expense, >> right? I I appreciate the specificity because that's this is where I don't want to get uh tangled up here. So, it's

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accurate to say you're collecting an escrow payment upfront that will be used to cover the cost of the professional services fees. And these fees are separate from or distinct from the fees that are part of the application and permitting process. >> Correct. >> Okay. And you're collecting this upfront

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basically to Why is that change happening up front? Because you said it's kind of it's >> We always collected escrow up front. >> Okay. Um, we just have changed the amount of the escrow to appropriately appropriately reflect the fees that are

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being charged. >> Okay. Um, so then, uh, let's just then ask a couple of the other the other ones. The the, uh, the the fees for, you know, using the recreational stuff, uh, the advertising, all that stuff. Has any of that been mathed as far as what it

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might bring in the introduction of these new revenues or fees or however we'll determine them? We have not done complex calculations on them at this point. No, we we do understand that um the the big money

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generator from the list of recreation fees potentially is the sponsorship signs that we're now allowing that have not been allowed in previous. So any of that fund money coming in is to help offset the recreation um program uh and

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staff and and the services that we provide. That that's just that that's that's a bonus for the recreation utility to be able to not impact, you know, residents costs, but it's it's allowing sponsorships in those areas that we have not previously allowed it.

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um the fees for the park usage, the pavilion usage, those as the mayor had indicated and and the and the tennis courts, those are things that we have all approved in the past um that have not that have just

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been free. Um we do have part of the reason we're putting those in place is we have had for-profit organizations running activities in our parks. Um, and if they're making money, then they should, you know, it it it's in all fairness, we do have maintenance costs

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on those things, so they should be offsetting that by paying us a fee. Um, and so those again are user fees. It's it's people who are using those services are paying the expense, and that is going to help offset the operating costs of the recreation of the parks and the

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fields. >> Right. I caught that part. Um but but there's not been really an estimate of like how much that might bring in or or you know in in general the the the revenue you could generate from something like this aside from you know like you said the big the big ticket

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items there being the the sponsorships, the advertising. >> Yeah. And Matt, we don't consider it even revenue. It's more of a contra expense. We're going to when you use the pavilion, we're going to then clean it when you're done. But this fee will help us. We were always going to clean it.

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So, it's it's not really a revenue producer. It's a contra expense. >> I mean, fair enough. I mean, you're going to clean it whether people used it or didn't or whether they had a registered event or didn't. So, um I guess I'm just saying more people it feels like are going to be coming out of pocket more with the enaction of these

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policies tonight either upfront or in various ways, you know, based on their usage. like I heard the the the remarks about trying to offset uh taxpayer uh money with just you know make make that offloaded onto the individual users of things. So that's why the question so I

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I didn't understand whether you know any of >> even if it's an offset for a budget right somebody's already used >> Matt Matt do you remember when we did the recreation um commission or the recreation utility a couple of years ago at this point one of the reasons we said

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we did that is because the expenses of the fields um should be a user fee the the the whole purpose behind that was um field conditions we were receiving a number of um

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concerns about field conditions and the youth organizations were um requesting us to put more money into it. And so the philosophy was while there is certainly a portion of

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the recreation that we provide that is for the whole bureau as a whole the more heavy usage of it is by specific groups. And so therefore if we're spending money we shouldn't be charging the taxpayers as a whole for those services. We should

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be char we should be targeting the folks that are using them. And it's one of the ways to help lower, you know, keep to try and keep taxes as as at a reasonable rate as we possibly can with increased expenses by

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making sure that people that are using services are paying for services if we are so allowed to do that. And that's why you're seeing these fees. These these fees are associated with organizations that are using services. So, we're trying to help help offset the

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cost of those services by these fees. >> Sure. No, I understood all that. I just didn't know whether there was was any sort of math. And you say there's not yet. So, we'll we'll be able to, I guess, take a look at this in a year and see how far uh it did or didn't, you know, cover some costs. >> That's right.

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>> Can I ask about the decision to extend the 5-year cannabis moratorum, particularly just if we're looking at ways to bring in revenue and stuff like that and there's a lot of successful alcohol uses downtown. Is there a reason that was discussed that it wasn't a good fit for Hadenfield?

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>> Uh Matt, I'll take that one. This is Frank just because this uh this came up originally in my first term >> and uh and I'm I'm not 100% prepared for this question. But I believe the way it worked is that uh at the time you had to make a decision as a commission whether

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you wanted to uh either approve it or not approve it. if you did not approve it, it basically uh uh started the clock for another five years. And at the time uh we just thought that uh it's u I have nothing against those who you

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know consume it whatever the case may be but uh you know my thoughts on it and I guess the commissioner at the time probably agreed the same thing is probably not exactly the right fit for for Hadenfield. There's also I believe uh laws surrounding how close it can be to a school and stuff like that. So there's complexities there even within

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the town of how far you can be uh in our uh in our business district relatively speaking to you know the schools in the area. Um so you know the same conversation and and I have done a little bit of research on this and uh you know the research I

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found on this I don't think that people are seeing the revenues that they thought they were going to receive from this in the state of New Jersey. And it it goes back to and I I can tell you five years ago there were a lot of people reaching out to the commissioners separately and saying we really like to have an interest in this and you know

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can we get time in your calendar to discuss it etc etc. Uh I had not seen that level of interest at all this go around. Not one person reached out to me. Um so you know I I I I'm here to represent um you know residents and stakeholders and stuff like that. So you

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know perhaps if there was more of an interest then maybe we could revisit it. But the fact that we saw none um and I don't think that we really missed it at all over the last five years. I personally didn't see a need to kind of reverse my decision five years ago. So I kept it I kept it the same.

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>> Yeah. Back to you, Frank. >> I've heard no one ask, you know, and and and I I'm available every Monday, right? So nobody's coming in say why can't we have that? We've have one resident who just because of mobility reasons would love to have one here, but that's one

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resident. Uh, and sometimes as a commissioner, you're you're really trying to get a sense of the will of the people, but when the absence of that, you fall under your own will. And I just don't think that's I said it in the work

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session. It's not how I wouldn't want to see that store downtown. >> Well, to be to be fair, it feels like you're begging the question a little bit. 5 years ago, people were kind of asked to go in blind because they had no blueprint for it. And there were a lot of towns around here that that did opt out specifically because there was no

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understanding of it. But I would I would maybe submit that nobody would have approached you about it because of the five-year moratorum. So maybe they didn't feel like there was an opportunity. But you're saying even with that in place, there was nobody saying, "Hey guys, the 5 years coming up. Maybe reverse your decision or amend it in

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some way." >> That's right. Correct. >> And and I work uh about the 35 minutes down the road. I take White Horse Pike every day. Uh there's no shortage of any place on White Horse Pike if you if you need to buy cannabis within, you know, a five-minute drive of here, 10-minute

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drive of here. So, um not you personally, Matt, but >> No, no, partake. You you can there are plenty of options within a just a few minute drive. >> Go to Belmar. >> Yeah. >> Well, the one difference I would say where there actually is demand is sort of like what the liquor model is in

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Hadenfield, which is the kind of consumption model on site. Uh there's only there's a lot fewer of those kinds of lounges. Uh there's only one in Merchantville, one in Atlantic City, and two in North Jersey. So that's actually why I asked because it feels like it's kind of comparable to the model that

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sort of revived the downtown with alcohol, which is you stay on site and you get a ride home. But um that's different from having like a dispensary or something like that. Usually there's something attached to it, but the main purpose is more like a cigar lounge. >> Yeah. I mean,

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>> but that to me goes back to, you know, sure that that is a business model, but no one reached out to me presenting their business model. So, it's not my job to scour the universe to try and find someone to create a business model for something I wouldn't support in the first place. So, >> well, there well, there's the answer.

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That's that I understand. If you guys just aren't into it, that's that's a that's a way cleaner answer, and I understand that. >> Well, I'm I'm not into it. And if the retail class A B C123 ever wanted to make a pitch to us, which they haven't, you know, so we actually

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have it downtown. We have the partnership for Hatfield. They've never brought even a request to have a a prospective tenant interested at all like you said. But even if they were, I'd be just for this one. That's a flat no for me. >> Herd, I appreciate you all. Thanks for

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taking the uh time to explain, Sharon, and thanks for entering the question, folks. Thanks, Matt. Uh, going once, Lily. Going twice, Lily. Three times. Uh, I'll make a motion to

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close the meeting. Can I get a second? Second. >> Voting on that motion. Commissioner Cole >> in favor. >> Commissioner Troy >> in favor. >> Commissioner Sidell >> in favor.