Good evening. This is the work session of September 8th. We call this meeting to order in accordance with the open public's meeting act. Notice this meeting has been sent to the retrospect and posted on the bulletin board in Burough Hall. The first item on the agenda is the public comment period. Before we open to
the public, I do want to state one thing that any comments on the amendment to chapter 158 entitled peace and good of the order would be more appropriate at the September 29th commissioner meeting during the public hearing. Having said that, we will open the the floor to the
public. Please state your name and your address. Do we have a mic for them? And we're inviting Rodney Thomas to make the first comment because he has a meeting to go to. We're just going to stick this over here so that you can
make your comment. Good evening. I'm Rodney Thomas. I'm the commander of the American Legion in Hadfield and I'm just here to make an announcement about an event that we're holding. Can you talk to here so they can hear you on Zoom? Can you hear me, please? Y. Okay, great.
So, is am I good to hear right here? Okay, great. So, anyway, so we're hosting an event um and you're going to see a lot of banners that look like this all over the town very shortly. Has anybody here seen any of these?
Yeah. Okay. So, what we're doing is we're hosting an event related to PTSD and trauma. Right now, probably a tens and tens of millions of people suffer from some traumatic event. And it and it and from
that they they deal with a lot of issues that are challenging. Sexual abuse may have been part of that. Homelessness could have been part of that. Drug and alcohol abuse. Sexual identity. And the list goes on and on and on. It could even be
a football player who decides to spit on another another football player. But anyway, this is part of a series of events called community conversations. The American Legion is hosting these events and they're all
going to be held at the Hadfield Baptist Church. So September 24th, Wednesday, 700 p.m. at the Hadfield Baptist Church. In October, we're going to do a piece on breast cancer. There's a the person who
will do this piece is a very highly regarded breast cancer doctor. In November, we're going to do a piece on about the last living Tuskegee airman. He will be 100 on September 18th, which happens to be the the September 18th,
1947, is when the US Air Force became a separate branch of the of the military. Taking a break in December, in January, we're going to do a piece on sex trafficking. By the way, sex trafficking was
recommended to me by one of the churches in Hadenfield. So, I encourage you to all be there. Uh, we expect a fairly large audience. We want to hear what you have to say. There will be a panel of five people who will talk about their
issues and and you may be surprised what people are dealing with out there, but it's an opportunity for all of us to learn. Any questions? accurately. Thank you.
Thank you. It's a free event. Yeah. Donations are always accepted. And if anybody wants a banner while I'm here, we'll have refreshments there for you. Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah. Put it out there. Share it with your friends. You want more? Measure that aside. Hi. Uh, good evening everyone. Uh, thank you for your time. Um, I'm Nate Robertson. I'm born and raised in
Bington, but I've attended Hadenville United Methodist Church my entire life. Um, I just wanted to, uh, point out a couple things. Um, according to the uh government's inter agency council on homelessness, somewhere between 40 and
60% of the homeless population in the United States are currently employed. Um, when I was homeless, beyond uh concerns about shelters in terms of when they would reach capacity or run out of beds or potentials for physical or
sexual violence, another concern for me was will my vehicle get stolen? will my work clothes get stolen and then I won't be able to maintain employment. So my two of my major concerns with the proposed ordinance are what would be
done if someone goes to a shelter against their will uh in order to uh protect their belongings so they can maintain employment. My other question is say they do accept the help of the police officer that night and they go to
the shelters and as frequently happens the shelters are either out of beds or they've reached the fire marshall's capacity limit. Will that person then be jailed and fined under the ordinance despite being in complete compliance with it and in compliance with the officer? Uh thank you and have a good
night. Um, possible to ask a question of the commissioners or just make a come. Okay. All right. Very good. I missed it. Sorry. Sorry. All right. A lot to say but not much to say. Um I
grew up in this town. Carolyn Tolbert who was a Herbest 308 West Redmond Avenue. Thank you S. Absolutely. Uh grew up in this town, grew up in the Methodist church. Carolyn
Tolbert was a fellow church member by senior and she taught us to love the unlovable. Um, my question, you don't have to answer it obviously, is are the unhoused people, do you consider them to be residents of
Hadenfield? It just struck me how much the bureau and the school district expends protecting us through police services, not only dispatch, but patrols routinely through town. Uh, the school board protects our young people.
They have a fiduciary responsibility, almost a parental responsibility of care. We have an EMS service and then we do things as well which are interesting expenditures around the holidays for holiday tree lighting which
when I was a kid it used to be a Christmas tree but now it's not that anymore and we put up wreaths that looked familiar to me as Christmas trees in the past. I'm struck with the conversations I've had the last couple weeks with others in
town and with the commissioners that, you know, an ordinance is here to protect the residents of Hadenfield are the unhoused residents as well. And if we spend millions of dollars every year protecting people that have an
identifiable address, you know, what can we do to protect those who don't have an identifiable address? Um, I have reached out as a number of others have to the members of the council of churches and I don't know if anybody's received a
response back from the commission. I have not received a response back. I'm still hopeful that the town in conjunction with whatever action the commissioners can take the count town can come up with a a compassionate response
to the problem that human beings have of not having a place to live. And so I would just ask your forbearance in terms of passing any ordinance um and give the town ample time to respond by putting
the pieces together. Thanks. All right, that's it. Thanks. Hi there. Um, my name is Amy Lapour. I live at 740 Cedar Avenue here in Hadenfield, and I just want to state for the record that I oppose the proposed amendments to chapter 158. Um, and I
look forward to hearing more about alternative ways to support the unhoused people in our town. Thank you. Hi, my name is John McGee. I'm an internist. I live on 265 Windsor Avenue in Hadenfield. I'm also a bioethicist. I
spend two days a week taking care of those without insurance in Camden. I take care of homeless people. And some things are just wrong. And treating homeless people any different than we treat anybody else is just wrong. And in
ethics, there's called the slippery slope. Once we embrace something that's wrong, it's much easier to embrace the next thing that comes around that's wrong. So, I suggest we stop here. I moved here 15 years ago with my lovely
bride because this was an enlightened community that cared about education and it was just a wonderful place to live. We should keep it that way. and arresting homeless people is not part of what Hadenfield should be about. This is
just wrong. Hi, Julie Bettingfield. I live at um on Aenddale Avenue. I also own Inkwood Books in downtown Hadenfield. Um I do want to say in the last couple weeks having these conversations in our community has been really interesting and helpful. I think there's a lot of
people on the same page about helping those who are most in need in our community. I'm struck by what Herd just said. I was thinking about if there were a census today, they would probably count the homeless as residents of Hadenfield. They are part of our community. And my biggest issue with
this proposed ordinance is the mere fact that someone sleeping here is going to be a crime and that we're going to kick them out. And it's treating our town as if we're a gated community, which we are not. It's treating our town as if our downtown as if it's a shopping mall that
we can lock it up and kick people out at night. And that's not what we live here for. We are a real town. We're a community. We have a long history. We're interconnected with our surrounding communities. And I think we all care about that. I think we really want to care about the neediest in our community. I would urge you to consider
some outreach and education um to help our residents better understand homelessness and the homeless issue in our community. I'm happy to host a book club or a talk or a forum at Inkwood. Um, we can find some experts to help us. I know there's lots of calls that get sent to the police. I've had police been
called on the store just for having lots of kids waiting in line outside. I think our community is very observant and very active and we like to call, but a lot of times we're calling for things that aren't crimes. And so maybe there's a way we can educate our citizens on when you should call and when you shouldn't
call. Um, I think we need better outreach and education about the kids downtown. I understand there's some work going on to help educate the kids and the families downtown. And I think we should give the same concern and consideration to those that are much less fortunate than the kids in our
town. And I think the kids in our town would really benefit from that kind of information and education. They're our future and we really need to think about the messaging we're sending them right now. And finally, as a business owner, I want to reiterate my big concern about
how this law is going to impact our reputation in town. We already have a reputation of being elitist. The holidays are upon us. For us businesses, this is our time. This is our make it or break it season. And now we're going into the holiday season with this
hanging over our heads and people are going to reconsider shopping in Hadenfield. I know 75% of my customers don't live in Hadenfield. And that's not because Hadenfield doesn't support our store. It's because we're a small town and all the businesses in town need people from surrounding communities to
support our stores and our businesses and our restaurants. And I'm really concerned that we're heading into the holiday season, the season of giving and love and caring, sending this message about who we are. Thank Kathy McGeian from Windsor Avenue in
Hadenfield. Kathy McGee, uh, thank you for allowing public input on this important matter. Again, at the last meeting, I asked about process and that's because I'm in science and that's kind of what it's all about for me. I
like to know how things are going to progress and what's been done and this that and the other things. Um, ordinances are the heartbeat of local government and they're the building blocks of the community life. Uh, these are pieces of legislation enacted by
authority and carry the force of law within the jurisdiction. So, it's kind of like this is something really important and I don't think it's something we should run into quickly. Um, amending an ordinance is typically a
slow process. There's mandated information. There's mandated like legal requirements. Um, there has to be public input. There has to be public um, transparency. And in short, it's not about efficiency.
It's about intentionally doing the process. You're changing the law. and we want to make sure that we protect people and that it is in the best interest of the public which is Hadenfield. Um that's why I raised those questions at the last meeting because it's just
the way I think and I like to know how other people are going about the process. Um some of them you really didn't answer but that's okay. I did look however at the committees in town and you have an
environmental con committee that could say something to this issue, health advisory committee, human relations which I knew about and I thought why didn't they get people involved from that um police advisory commission also and senior citizens because a lot of the
homeless people in town are elderly. In addition, Camden County has devoted extensive um web pages to the homeless problem, and I'm sure there's really good resources there. Um I think that
it's important to get people involved from the community. It's also important to get people involved that know something about the issue because then we're going to make a better, more informed decision. I ur urge the full board to do their homework and to try to
address this problem with a thoughtful long-term solution. Putting people in jail, they're going to get out and they're just going to come right back. And the problem is not solved. Um when you make a change in a law, it's on the books. It's going to be there whether
you're there or not. It'll be there when we're all long and gone. So, we should be careful when we change something like that. And for this reason, um, these reasons I should say, I oppose both the process and the proposed amendment to ordinance 158. I think we can do better.
Thank you. Hi, it's me, Dr. Susan Hul. I will not play Roy Gutter's Sundown Town at this meeting, but it's on YouTube and I uh 550 Cles Road, Hadenfield. I encourage you all to pull down the
YouTube of Sundown Town, which will be our name and this is the sundown ordinance. I want to speak as a physician. I'm glad there's another physician here. First of all, you are talking about homeless as if it's a amorphous group of one kind of people.
They're not. You have very different people in the homeless population. You have elderly people with dementia. You have LGBTQ teens and young adults who've been thrown out of their house, may have been sexually traffked, may have drug abuse. You have people who've lost their
homes because they lost their jobs in this economy. You have women with kids who fled violent husbands. You have veterans who are who have PTSD and are drug addicted. And the VA is being hollowed out right now. They can't get a
spot in the VA right now. So, you got to look at what's going on. First of all, you have people with diverse medical needs and diverse social needs. Your elderly lady is not who's 85 is not going to be going back to school to get a ba bachelor's degree probably.
Whereas, your trafficked uh teenage girl hopefully can have a life ahead of her. So, you've got a heterogeneous group. They're not just one kind of people. Number one. Number two, this is classic nimi. Not in my backyard. I don't want
those dirty homeless people in my backyard. This is a national, state, and county problem. We have our former mayor on the county board of commissioners. You would think you can get something
together with other towns in the county. I don't think we should reinvent the wheel here, but I think we need countywide shelters with social workers, with doctors, with access to the VA for your veterans with PTSD who have special
needs, access for STD treatment, uh, evaluation and treatment for girls and boys who've been trafficked. Why are we saying not here, you can go to Collinswood, they'll put an ordinance in, or you can go to Bington. No, why
don't we take the lead? Okay. Whatever happened to leadership in this town? We were on the uh weren't we on the Underground Railroad? Weren't we? I was I'm old enough to remember it. Um why don't we We are
Quaker town. We have a tradition. We have a tradition of being a liberal town. Why don't we take leadership in working with the county and other towns to come up with a countywide solution to evaluate these people socially,
medically, in terms of drug and alcohol addiction, in terms of what education they need besides just a roof over their head instead of just putting them in jail. And that's all I'm going to say today. Next time I will play Ry Cooters
Sundown Talent. And the final thing I want to say is I know a heck of a lot of people who are going to boycott our stores if this goes through. Everybody I know from South Jersey Progressive Democrats who incidentally threw me out because I didn't agree with them on
I swear to God they they threw me out because I actually like private healthcare. I think it has an advantage but that's not it. Yeah. And what a hard act to follow. You can come preach in my church any day. Uh I am Reverend Cricut Denton, uh the
pastor of missions at the United Methodist Church in Hadenfield. I live at 410 Bell Road in Mount Ephro. Um I'm just here tonight not representing the Council of Churches. Um, but I am a member of the Council of Churches and I'm here to implore the commissioners,
implore you to work with the churches. Um, we've been trying to help our unhoused brothers and sisters for years. We cannot do it alone. Um, so I I'm asking you to work with us, to work in partnership with us, um, so that we're
actually giving the unhoused the resources that they need. we're giving them the help that they need um instead of making them criminals. Um so I'm not the chair of the council, but I work with him. He wanted to be here tonight. Um but unfortunately he's sick. So if I
could give you his information, I'd be happy to do that after the meeting so you could get a hold of him. Um but we would love absolutely love to work together on this. So thank you. Hi. Now I'm more nervous after going after all those people, but I just
wanted to make sure I stay to the five minutes. My name's Elizabeth Wolf. I live at 218 Lake View Avenue. I was unable to attend the August 25th meeting in person, but I did listen to it from beginning to end, nearly 5 hours long.
It took me 3 days. I want to begin by saying that I appreciate and respect the commissioners for listening with patience to all the voices in that room because I was exhausted as I I'm sure you guys were too. My biggest takeaway was this.
I don't feel that this is about criminalizing the homelessness. It's about being able to feel safe in our own community. I've lived in Hadenfield for 20 years. 14 of those years, I've been a single
mother, working my butt off to keep a roof over my head and my kids' heads. Some days wondering if I'm still going to be able to do that. And through my personal experience, I've had extensive
um issues with someone in my family with mental health and addiction. So that means I bring a deep sense of empathy and compassion to this issue. But I will also be honest, my experience with the system has been utterly exhausting. It's
drained me. And as we all know, we cannot force people to get help or enter treatment. That reality leaves families like mine carrying a heavy burden. And it leaves our community exposed to situations that are unacceptable. I was alarmed the first time I walked
downtown for coffee. a couple months ago and saw a man sleeping under the gazebo. He didn't just stay for a night. He stayed for a month. I then befriended a woman that lived in King's Court who would text me at night when he would come back and say, "I'm not going to
walk my dog. I'm going to walk out the other area. She's a single woman as I am, older than me, living in King's Court, feeling like she just didn't feel safe." Safe. That's a word that I hear a lot. Everybody wants to feel safe,
but are we not allowed to feel safe as well? Um, more recently, I saw a man nodding out in front of the paper trail, clearly unwell in an in a state that was unsafe for himself and inappropriate
for families passing by with children. And as recently this morning, a neighbor had to call 911 because a highly intoxicated man was using their garden hose, apparently trying to flood a basement, which I'm grateful to the Hadenfield police who responded in less
than 2 minutes, and to EMS for transporting him to wherever they needed to transport him. That shows these situations are not isolated. They are escalating. At the last meeting, I heard many people
speak, why now? Why now? Why now? Matt put you in a corner, Dave, at the end when it was the time for the paper to speak. And I can speak to that in just the last 3 years. I hardly
recognize downtown. by the increase in visible substance use, people sleeping in public spaces, and families feeling the need to turn away has
escalated quickly. This is not the same idyllic and safe community that my children grew up in. And if we do not act now, we risk losing even more of what makes Hadenfield special. I want to be clear that I'm not only speaking for myself. I'm also speaking for other
community members who feel the same way but are too fearful to come forward. After witnessing the tone of the August 25th meeting when emotions ran high and an angry crowd opposed this ordinance, I understand why some are hesitant, which
I was even afraid to get up to speak today, but it is what it is. Threats were already made that night by people on the opposing side and that only adds to the fear. Many worrying about retaliation against their businesses, their families or even their children if
they speak up. But silence should not mean consent. That is why I support moving forward this this ordinance forward. But it must be carefully written and enforced based on behavior, not status. blocking entrances, camping overnight in
gazeos, using public space in unsafe ways should not be acceptable. At the same time, enforcement should be begin with outreach and connections to services. So, I'm hoping that we can find a balance, not automatic
punishment. Pairing compassion with accountability is the only way this will work. That means outreach workers alongside police. One clear reporting channel. Okay. For residents and businesses. Okay, that's
it. Thank you. My name is Lynn Smith. I live at 200 Maple Avenue. Lynn. Lynn. Lynn N. Last one's easy. Smith. It's 200 maple. I would like to state that I oppose the
proposed amendments to chapter 158 and look forward to hearing about alternative ways to support unhoused people in town. Thank you. Um my name is Shenie Knuckles. I live at 448 Gladstone Avenue. And like Lynn, I just want to publicly state my
opposition to the amendments proposed at the August 25th meeting for chapter 158. I appreciate I've known Beth for a very long time and I really appreciate what she had to say, but her experience walking downtown is different than my experience walking
downtown. August 25th was the first time I'd heard of any kind of issue. And I am downtown a lot. I have good friends who own businesses downtown. I've spent the last couple of weeks talking with people and as valuable as her input is, so is
so is mine and so is the people who've been up here speaking before about our experience. I I'm I've never noticed anything. Um I don't admire or envy you guys the position of trying to move
forward in a way that um satisfies everybody. What I heard at the meeting on August 25th was there's a lot you don't know when you wrote this this ordinance. There seemed to be a lot of experts that offered their opinions.
We're a small town and the benefit of it being in a small town is we can work together to solve our problems, but it takes some time and it takes conversation. And a punitive ordinance like this is going to preempt administrative solutions that will both be impactful in the long term at solving
this problem for years to come. You can't start a conversation with a punitive measure. That's all. Take that. Thank you. I'm back.
Um, thank you for uh giving us the opportunity. Again, I'm Sam. I still live on Upland Way. Um, I recognize last meeting I used language that could be considered indecent in a
year from now, might even set me back two grand. I'll pull out my phone because I have some prepared statements. But, uh, we we talk a lot about the symptoms of what's going on. Uh, I'd rather focus on solutions. And,
um, I don't think handcuffs and a $2,000 fine is the solution that is going to help these people bounce back. I think they need structure, maybe a roof over their head, something. And uh if I'm mistaken, there were about
$300,000 um in funds to be reappropriated that aren't needed by the fire department. Is that true? No, they were being used by the fire department. It's being used by the fire department. Understood. Okay. Be that the case, we can still fund
raise. I went on a run last week and passed by a house that had multiple Teslas. I don't see why we can't sacrifice a little bit to help out. And in in the Second World War, what did we do? We we sacrificed to support the war effort.
There's also evidence that supports using the police to solve systemic problems like a housing crisis or a drug use epidemic is not sustainable. And is our police force not already spread thin?
I think if we can't provide housing, which mind you, there is a foreclosed home in Bington with four bedrooms and two bathrooms for $250,000, might not be feasible. There are public restroom options such as the Portland Lu, which cost about 90,000. It's a bit
more manageable, but we also have public restrooms. If we were to make them available 24 hours, I offer to clean them for free. I'll help out. I I think as a town, we're bright, we're privileged, we have the power to do real good.
The plan that we have now is not going to help. And when I was in the first grade, we went on a field trip, my class, walking down Lincoln A. For some reason, I had a bone to pick with ants. At this point in my life, I
blamed the movie Ants. Scared me. Upon spotting an antill on the walk, I promptly stomped it out. Can't explain why, but luckily my teacher noticed this and course corrected me with a lesson in empathy. She said, "What would you do if the ant
was your size and you were his? What if a giant ant just trampled your house? It's frightening enough to make you reconsider, but the lesson rings true in my head. I this will be your legacy.
So I I just ask you to consider what do you want to do with this antill. Thank you. I am Lauren Mclade at 118 center. Um, I spoke last time um, saying my opposition to the ordinance and I just wanted to have that on record again at this
meeting. I look forward to hearing everyone's proposed solutions. Um, I really hope there is one. I thought a tears was really wonderful. I hope that that is something that can kind of um, get some momentum behind it. Um, one
thing that um, struck me about this ordinance that was said last time is that it's a tool in your toolkit um, to have and, uh, Chief Cutler had said that he won't use it. Um, but my concern with this is that this
will be a law um that will be forever um, if Chief Chief Cutler isn't here. So, um, you know, those are my worries around that and, um, I have many worries around it, but I look forward to hear what you have to say. So, thank you.
Um, also, I just want to say that I live one block away from town. Um, I walk through town all the time with my son, and I just don't see the problem. Um, I'm not, you know, discrediting other people's realities, but I I'm in town a ton. I walk through to the library. I I
live on center and I walk through town um, a lot. I was just at Incwood Books until very late. I walked home alone. Um felt very safe. Um so I' I've lived here for five years, a little over five years. And um I just haven't seen this
issue. Um I feel very safe here. Um I'm very excited to raise my son here and um I'm very feel very blessed to live here and I hope and I do think that this is uh the commissioner's legacy. Um, and I hope that you'll reconsider and not pass
an ordinance at all um, in this manner. Um, I I don't want to see it rewritten. I just want it to go away. I think that there are uh, social services that can help. The Council of Churches um, has spoken up, which has been wonderful. I've reached out to them myself, too, like Herb. Um, I haven't heard back. Um,
so I'm, you know, interested to hear what they have to say and if they've spoken with you. So, um I'm hopeful that there is a solution here because I I think no one wants homeless on our streets. I think that that's something we can all agree with. It's it is an issue and um you know, it's terrible.
It's terrible that anyone has to um I think we're a resourcerich town. Um and if we can pull together our resources, I know that um we're coming together and we've pulled pulled some minds together on this and and we're hopeful that there
can be a solution. Um so, thank you. Hi, my name is Sarah Henrikson. I'm a physician at CHOP and I run a lab at CHOP and I've lived here for 13 years. I think it's a really important to say out loud that I think the values we all share and the reason many of us have
either moved back here or who have chosen to live here. Yeah, please. 311 Belmont Avenue um is the importance that this city places on education and our shared values of looking after our children, whether that means staying home with
them or being in the workforce. We are a town that prioritizes excellent education and safety. And it's important in that vein to think about the data. The data is this town is as safe as it's been for 20 years. The data is that we are one of the
richest, safest places to live in this country. And the idea that we're not doesn't match the data. And everyone's personal experience will be different. But we love our children. My children are young. They walk to the middle school. My son just went to Princeton
having gone to our amazing high school. This is not a place that needs to breed hate or invoke specters of violence in order to take advantage of the disadvantaged. We can do better. We are better than that. We should help the folks that need help and make sure the
folks that live in our town feel safe 100%. But it is not a time in our world or our country to be turning on the poor and to not be looking after the folks who need help. Especially in a town as rich and
lucky as we are. We can do better. We are better than targeting the poor. We should absolutely stay safe, but we need to think very carefully about the model we're setting and how long this law will stand and what it means to our children
to say that we are afraid of those who have less than us instead of reaching out a hand to support them and bring them up with us. Thank you. Hello, my name is Mary Louise Levery. I live at 68 Birchaw Drive in Hadenfield.
And despite the way I talk, I have lived here 56 years. I've been very impressed tonight by all the speakers and I do think there is a feeling among us that something can be done that
surely a place like Hadenfield can come up with some plans, some ideas, some way to help these people. Now I uh I I realize that everybody has
a different experience in town. And I want to tell you about the time that I was terrified. Do you know when that was? It was when the bell rang at the middle school and all those kids came rushing
out riding their bicycles and I thought I was going to die. Uh uh for us elderly people that's rather frightening. Um but um truly um I I just want to reaffirm the wonderful talks we have heard that
there surely is a way out of this without just so demeaning these persons who are in situations that there for the grace of God might go. Thank you. Good luck. Yes. Okay. To the mic, please.
Okay. My name is Lorine Gormley Divine. I live on Evergreen Lane in Hadenfield. Of course, um I'm not here in any official capacity, but I can say for many years in my career as an attorney, I have represented people who are
mentally ill. I can say statistically, and I don't mean to diminish anybody's experience or how people feel or experience downtown, but statistically someone who's homeless is not more likely to commit a crime. Someone who's
mentally ill is not more likely to commit a crime. means that's the statistic. You are more likely to be a victim of a crime from someone in your family. Um, so I'm sure your attorneys are looking at the legal
challenges and the legal legality of all this, but the fact how someone makes you feel or if you're concerned or you have fear can't be a standard for depriving someone of their liberty or arresting
them. It has to be something um that represents an actual danger. uh to someone there needs to be an action. Um so I think that I would hope you know as
a resident I would be concerned about um any ordinance that would penalize a status and particularly a status of as people have indicated a population who's suffering already who's probably not going to be able to come up with $1,000
to pay a fine. Um you know, I think that that it's wonderful that people have come here and made offers of let's look at other solutions. Um, and I hope that that's what happens.
Any other before we go online? Yeah. Hi. Hello everyone. Lena Selena U Mechanic Street downtown Henfield. Yana Selena. Yes. And uh I actually wasn't intending
to speak but conveniently as I walked here for the meeting being late I was just encountered by a gentleman who apparently homeless. I don't know if he is or not. Screaming. I mean, he didn't attack me hopefully because I left real
quick, but living in downtown, I don't know what other people said. I just had quite alarming experience. Have to tell you this. I don't know what can be done, but something needs to be done about this. You can write it down, please. Um,
I don't know the crime rate. I don't know. I just know how I feel and I don't feel safe. And I have reasons for that because I as I mentioned last meeting my house was broken into. I had three or four bicycles stolen. So I I have plenty of experience and
today was just one more experience. Now I don't know what can be done and I'm not diminishing the point that something uh needs to be done in the best possible way so the individuals who are in the difficult situation do not suffer.
But I also propose a consideration for the Henfield residents too. So they do feel safe as somebody said it's a safe town and all that. That is the point and I think we should keep it this way. We
should do everything possible. Now when they were saying about discriminating as a class, I don't know if anybody mentioned here, but there was last year Supreme Court that dealt exactly with the same situation and uh the ruling was that the towns townships are allowed to
rule their own ordinance regarding this. There was not punishment or anything because it was uh decided that this was not against the individual as a class but the conduct was u regarded to. So
that was the behavior basically that was condemned and uh doesn't matter if the individual has a home or has does not have a home but the individuals with the sleeping in downtown I personally think they um it's it's it invites uh crime to
the area not they may not commit a crime I don't know if they might if they intoxicated or not like right now I felt like they were about to but whatever Um so um but it invites them invites
predators in the area that for sure people become victims of this crime if they are not you know the making the crime itself and the second point I wanted to make here a short point is that um I really don't want anybody to
find out the hard way the consequences of not doing anything about this because yeah it is safe right now and it's amazing that we are safe and our kids are safe. I don't know where other key you know people's kids walk. My kids
walk downtown area every day. We had different experience. But if something happens, if something happens and the legal, you know, consequences come into question in terms of litigation or not. I just want to get it
on record that as I don't know majority minority of the of the Hadenfield residents I am voicing a concern and I'm telling I'm not safe I don't know if everybody else safe but I'm not and
nothing is done if nothing is going to be done what's pl what's going to be done what is the plan is there going to be second meeting is it not but something needs to be done and I don't want actually to go into extremes. Okay, we're going to arrest them. Oh, no, let
them sleep. Why can't there be a middle ground? Why can't there be a, you know, safety for the citizens? I mean, for the residents of the town, you know, and dignity for the homeless. Why there have to be an extreme? Oh, this is a crime or
you know this is this is you know let them let them do whatever you know I'm not going to say but you know their personal needs hygiene you know going into people's properties urinating whatever why can't there be middle ground there should be but I just want
to make sure that that something is done for the safety of the residents we all really talk a lot last meeting about you know the you know the homeless and I think Definitely something should be done but we should really be thinking of
the Hanfield residents too. Thank you for your consideration. You okay? You have to come up. Yeah. My name is Jack Rangen. I live in Cherry Hill. Okay. Um I am an outsider. I do
not uh live in Hadenfield. I do have uh two children that uh lived in Hadenfield for several years. They don't know. The comment that I wanted to make is that from the outside looking in, I have to admit it seemed like an openandshut
case, but listening to everyone tonight, uh it is quite nuanced. You do forget that the homeless person can be someone's grandmother that's hit the hard times. they're out on the street. It could be someone that has lost their
job, which I have. And uh that is a terrifying situation. Uh people end up on the street. Uh homeless people are not criminals, although they can be. Some are on drugs,
some are unstable. So, number one, I did hear a young lady mention the county and from the outside looking in, that was my thought. This is not a situation that Hadenfield
can really resolve. It really needs to go up to the next level. You have to handle these folks with compassion, but with an eye towards safety because you don't always know how they're going to react when a child walks by. This is
where the police will have to come in, use some discretion, but ultimately we need to get the county involved, get these people off the street in a safe environment, get them the help that they need very quickly so it's done safely
for them as well as the citizens of Hadenfield. So I am an outsider but in addition to that I am running for the state assembly for legislative district number six which includes Hadenfield and Cherry
Hill. If I am lucky enough to win the election in November, I will be happy to take this up on a state level and maybe we come up with some solutions on a state level down in the county level. So maybe we can put this to bed, you know,
at a top down so that when we're faced with these situations, we don't have to figure it out on our own. We have a solution already. So thank you. Lost the road. We're going to move on. Uh raise your hand if you'd like to
speak. First rec first first recognized as Jeff Wild of San. Hello everyone. Can you hear me? Yes. My name is Jeff Wild. I'm a lawyer for unhoused uh people throughout New
Jersey. I'm with Loenstein Sandler one Loenstein Drive in Rosland. I'm also a trustee and officer of the New Jersey Coalition and homelessness. And one thing everyone who has spoken for or against agrees on is that no one should
uh have to be living or sleeping on public property. It's a terrible uh situation and everyone here agrees that the people of Hadenfield have a right to safety and to feel safe. Instead of more formal public comments,
which at least I and others I know on this uh at this meeting have done, I would suggest that we schedule a smaller, less formal meeting uh with uh Hadenfield's government and the
professionals and lawyers who have a record of success in solving this problem in many other uh municipalities. Uh, I would request that if this is not the time, and I know I'm going to stay as late as necessary, I'd ask uh uh the
bureau's lawyer, Mr. Siciliano, to email me, offer a date and time. I know I'm available Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, or Monday. I'll cancel anything else for this. And the way we have solved this problem in other municipalities, and uh
we know we can do it here. um is by starting to answer some questions. And the questions we have to start with are approximately how many people currently living or sleeping in in on public land
in Hadenfield are there now? How many how big a problem is it solve this problem in in places with very large numbers of people? I'm I'm betting it's not that large a number. uh how many if any have refused help uh when adequate
indoor housing or shelter is offered to them? Typically, it's incredibly rare. Um, and we'd like to talk about which nonprofits uh or government officials, county or otherwise, have been given a chance to house the unhoused before we
start talking about legal issues and uh legalities. I would submit that since everybody here wants to solve the problem, let's um have a smaller meeting uh professionals and representatives of Hadenfield
and uh let's solve the problem without passing a controversial and I would submit in its present form certainly illegal ordinance. We we can do this together, but this is not necessarily the right form to do it.
And so I hope that uh Salvatore you'll reach out to me. I'm in touch with many of the advocates and professionals who are on the zoom at least. Um the council of churches uh absolutely should be
involved and we'll take it from there and there's no reason we can't solve this together. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Raquel Cooper from New Jersey Homelessness Action
Collaborative. Um I'm definitely joined here by a bunch of colleagues. Um as Jeff mentioned, we worked together before. Um, but there is and then there's several others on here, but just so you know, there is already a um a
county effort to end homelessness. It's called the continuum of care, also known as the COC. Um, in for Camden County, actually leads the COC because in in Camden's case, it's part of a regional
continuum, which is Camden, Kate May, Cumberland, and Gloucester counties. um they will soon have additional counties involved, but it is a a jointwide effort. So, um you know, there's a structure to it. It's a whole homeless
planning body uh that kind of governs the or oversees like the HUD funding. Um there's an executive board. Um there are there's a bunch of different committees, uh data committee, lived experience advisory board, committee. Um, and each
county still has like their local providers and um and local advisory boards, but you know, they submit one application as a collaborative to HUD to get the funding for permanent supportive housing for all kinds of different housing efforts and services. But
there's so that's definitely happening. Um, Camden probably has the the strongest of the whole southern New Jersey COC. There's um Camden probably has the most providers of services. So I think definitely connecting Paddenfield
with the COC is is a great start. Um they have like a you know a coordinated entry which is like you know a prioritized list of individuals that that go on for on like a housing list. Um Adamfield could also start their own
list. Um, and there there's a lot of things that as a municipality you can do, you know, and you can you can put I mean you could spend taxpayer dollars a lot more wise than, you know, than jailing people, which is much more
costly than collaborating efforts for sure. I'll leave it there. Thank you. Good evening. My good evening. My name is Raises Urban
Stitz. Um I work with I'm the policy associate for the New Jersey Coalition to End Homelessness. Um and I'm based in Princeton, New Jersey. Uh, I wanted to first say that I'm was really grateful to see that there was an item on tonight's meeting discussing alternative
ways to address homelessness in Hadenfield and I'm very much looking forward to hearing that discussion. Um, I think that was a very good sign about really trying to address the root causes of uh this issue of homelessness and you
know listening to the residents, listening to experts across the state, listening to people with lived experiences. I'm very grateful that you're doing this process and I look forward to hearing the solutions that will come up tonight. I just wanted to um I just wanted to amplify that, you
know, on behalf of so many people who are here, both local Hadenfield residents and other partners across the state, you know, that there are al there are solutions that we hope you will work with us to pursue. One thing that in particular, seeing what a strong
community Hadenfield is, um I think that exploring potentially a mayor's task force on homelessness would be something that would be very valuable here in Hadenfield. Uh I also want to reiterate that um in the process of sort of identifying additional service providers
and um identifying funding sources, these are things that um I I can speak that we would be happy to help in discussing what kinds of options are available. Um and I I truly hope that you will continue to come to the table.
uh because I think that there is there are a lot of I think there are a lot of people who would be very happy to come and really discuss solutions. So I won't go more into depth tonight because I know you all are going to be discussing it but please know that we're here to continue this discussion and thank you.
Hi everyone. Thank you so much for the time. My name is Richard Uniak. I'm the president at Bridges Outreach. We're at 120 Morris Avenue in Summit. Uh we have uh worked closely with the city of Summit to leverage a datadriven
um ecosystemwide approach to solving homelessness, including preventing homelessness. Uh so I would really just echo Jeff's suggestion for uh an engagement uh some kind of a working session that that we could help with and uh you know talk about some of the the
tactics and strategies that we've employed to successfully develop systems so that experiences of homelessness can be rare, brief and non-recurring. Right? We do want to make sure we're considering those folks who are potentially facing imminent homelessness and and it all can be done and it all
can be done actually for a much more uh cost-effective approach than criminalization, incarceration, institutionalization. Um I want to also just uh you know echo some of the other resources you have available beyond the COC. There is a state office of homelessness prevention.
Uh if you have not reached out to them, the Department of Community Affairs, they know how to do this work. Uh they've worked with municipalities, they work with providers. Um and and there's another uh provider who's on the Zoom right now, uh Pam, if she's still
around, from CSPJ, who does have uh direct activity going on in Camden County. We partner with them very closely. Uh I would encourage you to reach out to to PAM um and CSP. I'd be happy to come down. Uh I would encourage you to call uh the mayor's summit and
that council. they can tell you exactly how it went down. Um, you know that this can be done. And the last thing I would say is just always keep in mind that at the other end of this, if you haven't solved the fact that there's no housing for them, they're still going to be homeless. Like whatever the strategy,
you can jail people for a little bit of time, incarcerate them, institutionalize them, they'll still be homeless at the end of that. Um, so thank you so much for your time. Any other comments on that? Okay, we can close. Seeing none, let's get move on with the
agenda, folks. Okay, next item on the agenda is to talk about use of federal property. We only have a few items. Most of the stuff that we've received that we have received have been annual events. um the annual turkey trot, the Hadfield crew
argund, and the Tatum color run. Um unless you have any questions specifically on those, we will add them for approval. They've been done for multiple years now. Fine by me. Any other questions?
Nope. All right. We do have two new ones. Um we received a request for the use of the Fanatic 3. um is to have an event for
dressfest block parties. Um but for nonprofits, I I think we need to we're reaching out to them to find a little more information. Um from the sounds of it, it sounds like they may need more than just Mechanic Street. Um it sounds like it may bleed over into more of the
parking lot area typical like the event we hold for Yeah. Well, or I think in the valley in the alley. Rally in the alley. So, um I just wanted to go over it with you though because it is coming up early in the request is for early in October. If
you're okay with the idea of it and we can work out the details with the police department and the fire department, then we will internally work out, you know, what the issues and problems may be and if they're still ready to move forward, we can put it on agenda. But I wanted to
bring it to your attention um and see if you're okay with the idea uh or have any specific questions that you want us to bring to them. You know, again, I I think what they're asking for were may be better suited if it's going to be
that small that they feel that the street is sufficient for them. may be better to fit in the parking lot, leaving the street still open for the businesses and residents that live on the street and just taking away the parking lot. But if it but if it's bigger than all of that, then they may
need both spaces and then we have to work out how people who park there, you know, and dealing with some of the businesses around it and how they would be dealing with it. Um, they're not a new organization. So, this is a new request. It's a new request for us, but they're not new. So they've done this at tap
room in the past at Haden in Haden Township at the you know that tent area next to the burough hall. Uh they bring a crowd. So well and that's part of you know my concern is is the area big enough to handle what Yeah, probably the streets not. Yeah, that's why I'm thinking they may
need to expand it to also the parking lot. So I want to make sure we have we know exactly what we're looking for. Right. Or that area. October 4th. So that's
not October 12th birthday approximately 11. I think they were looking well I think two to seven two to seven. So no more stuff. We don't want to give away all our
but the problem is it's actually not yeah we're having something they do have a rain date here of the 16th. We can always go back to them and say that you know we would prefer the 16th and come up with a different rain date.
um if we don't want to conflict activities. That sounds reasonable. Not many. Are there any cost for the bureau for these events to happen? No, we pass on any costs to the person providing it back. Yeah.
And if there's any police, it's it's basically what it's $100 an hour and for something like this would cost two or take two officers most likely. Depends on the size of the crowd. Depends on the size of the crowd. Well, I mean they draw that large of a
crowd though, isn't it? I mean, you start getting into rally now, which means you have to uh have uh the portage and all the accommodations and you got to square away the parking and there's there's a lot to go over in a short period of time. That's why I felt that
we needed to meet with them and talk about it because that is it's not as simple as saying we want to just close the street when you're holding something like this. But before we had that meeting and knowing they want to try and do it in a short period of time, I want
to know if you guys were okay with it before we Well, the 16th gives them some breathing room, but uh they have to make commitments pretty quickly. And it's not like we're inventing the wheel. We know what needs to happen that
that John on the back u access for delivery all the things [Music] also. separating events into two different days release pressure on the police.
Um the PFH event really won't require additional police assistance. So, but with something like this, it just depends on how big it is. We may bring in extra officers just to make
sure we have people around in case there's issues that pop up, especially when there's a special event permit. Yeah. Yeah, they're looking for a special event permit. That's because they haven't had approval and stuff yet.
Yeah, we just got it last Thursday. Yes. So, um we will follow up with them. It sounds like you're okay as long as we can work out all the details. Yes. So, we will set up a meeting with them um this week or next week to try and work through some of the issues and see
if we can come to an agreement. Okay. If we come to an agreement, it'll be on for the meeting at the end of the month. Yeah. So, this is in front of you because Deian and I were going back and forth on
this and while if they were just coming downtown and and doing a hands across and spreading out through the on the burough sidewalk, we wouldn't think much of it. and they go on, but they plan on being in one location for an hour handing out constitutions. So, it kind
of then gets into our solicitation ordinance where you're standing still for too long. We thought we wanted to bring it to your attention that they wanted to do it. They already advertised it everywhere that they're going to be here doing this. Oh. Um, we but we wanted to bring it to
your attention, make you aware of it. Um, you know, and and determine that there were any issues you wanted us to try and address in advance. I mean, it sounds relatively benign, some people standing around handing out
constitutions that in front of Patty Lane. Uh, obviously, we want to talk to making sure that they're not um blocking any pedestrian walkway area. people can get around like they need to. Um, but other than that,
s anything? No. Yeah. What What is the ordinance that we're calling a question? The solicitation. Pedlers and solicitation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, I mean, when when you're in fixed in in a
position for a fixed period of time. Yeah. It's it's like if you see the sometimes we end up with nonprofits that come in and set up a table We don't really allow that in this unless the committee get permission for that. Um, you can wander around downtown. Um,
I think the ordinance says 15 minutes, you know, in one spot and then, you know, around 14 solicitating or anything like that, but um, they plan on staying in this bow area for that one.
more more a question of timing, not necessarily the activity as the duration of the So that's why we wanted to bring it to you guys, make you aware of it and so that we could formally approve it since they're going to be in one space for so long. Do we grant other things or other
organizations the bill stand there for an hour or Well, I mean, you can go back to the Girl Scout cookies, you know, things like that. So, we do give permission for people to use space for something other than what else
um you know the the urgathon you know they're they're doing an activity a fund raise activity downtown. Um, so we do do things. Again, it's if the nonprofits come to us, we've had things before where um I believe one of the businesses
was doing something with one of the rescues organizations and so they had kittens or puppies outside their their store. Um, we've done that once or twice and they come and just get permission to be on the sidewalk. Um, so we've done things. We just we again if they had
come in and were just you know it was you know the peace walk that happened a couple months ago or something and they're they're congregating someplace and then starting and taking off someplace that's just an allowable use of public property because they're going to stay in one place for longer than 15
minutes. We felt the need to bring it to you for permissions. I'm sorry. How long are they going to stay in that? An hour. Okay. I I don't have a problem as long as I don't block that. I mean, you get your hands across back in the day. Right.
Right. That's what I was thinking too. But when you actually get into it, it doesn't seem that that's what they're going to be doing. You know, ready shooting isn't the way we want people to purchase. Right. Right. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I promise.
Okay. you'll let them know because that'll be before the meeting. Okay, moving on. So, the next item on the agenda is to talk about alternatives. So, after our last meeting, I've spoken with all three of you individually. um
you listened to the public that had come and presented their case in front of you and were willing to look at um holding the ordinance at this time but wanted to put some things in place to um begin to try and come up with ways to address
this including some metrics to determine you know how we're making some progress. So, um, David worked up a a potential description of a a non-denominational 5013C
um C C3 um organization, which is a nonprofit organization and has been in discussions with the Council of Churches. I know AI has been in conversations with the Council of Churches. This seems to be the best mechanism for moving forward and be
coming up with an entity that would um hire potentially a social worker and oversee the you know in come out with in on calls with the police department to address some of the issues but also then have someone that is actively on a daily
basis or a weekly basis interacting with these folks um to try and see what assistance we can get um we can help them we are able to uh is because this this entity would be working also to our
benefit in helping with the police department. Um we are able to use some of our opioid funds to help give them a kickstart and be able to help fund them to start this process up. Um and so what I provided you was the
proposal um that Dave provided to the council of churches. a very brief job, not brief, but a a a roughly sketched out job description, some potential metrics, um and then a monthly report. I did meet with one of our local social
workers yesterday and went through those. Um want to hand you something. So, she did send me an email today with some comments. Um so, there are um Oh, I didn't pick you up.
Yep, I got um so they are her comments on some of the documents, but also she in her conversation. I saw her yesterday. Yes. And she said, "Did you get Yes. Well, actually the email just came today, but um
so she did talk to me about an organization out of Montlair. Um I looked the the other second sheet of that is information on the Montlair nonprofit. It basically looks like the same thing we are talking about. It initially
started from their council of churches. Um I have reached out to the gentleman that is working for them um by email uh to set up a conversation to start talking and also see if we can get a copy of their bylaws. Um I have not heard back from them yet. That was just
earlier today. So that seems to be a good place um to start. They grew into something more. They provide clothing um or at least they used to provide clothing. Um they have a kitchen that they provide meals six days a week I
believe it is. Um and then under certain conditions they will provide respit for the severe weather in the 80s. Mhm. Um so again, that is all something that this entity that may be created could
look to do in the future. Um, but in the meantime, at least getting some staff that can help because, you know, the one thing Jason can can talk to the discussion of the fact that um when you're showing up
just with a police officer, the folks necessarily aren't going to um while we offer them care and we try and show them respect and um civility, they may not necessarily accept it from us. Whereas if you have someone that is
on a daily basis going out with a cup of coffee or a sandwich or something and creating um that relationship, yeah, some kind of relationship with them and yes, a trust something to kind of formulate a relationship, then you
might be able to find out more of their true story and see what true assistance can be helped and and find a way to to to get them into the system getting the the things that they need. Um but again that's not necessarily our
place to do that. So we truly believe that setting this entity up. I have spoken to each of you personally about all these issues. I wanted to this is a chance to talk about some of them. Um fine-tune some of
them if you have ideas and things that you want changed on them. Um, I did talk to the resident and indicated after I got feedback from the three of you on the documents I gave you, I would go back to her um, and include any changes that I that I had from what she is
recommending. Um, and then she also, you know, suggested that one of the things that we talked about is this person initially certainly isn't a full-time position, but so there may be people that we know that are social workers in the daytime that have time in the
evening hours or time during the day even where they can come and do this in addition to their their full-time job and still be working for this nonprofit. So, she's got some contacts that she may be able to also reach out and um she might have some interested individuals.
Great. So, that is the information we pulled together in the last couple of weeks. Um you also got an SOP that the police department has put together. We are updating their list because um we have
quite an extensive um we we've done a search on everything out there and um have come up with other things that we believe we can add to our current list of sources resources. Um the subcommittee of the uh human relations commission we met on that
Wednesday and stated last week that that's one of the activities that they wanted to help with is to the subcommittee to vet organizations uh for use by the burial resources. So um two two things that they want to
do. So the subcommittee to create the list and to keep adding to the list vetting the list categorizing it in terms of what the need is and then what the appropriate response would be. So that would be one one committee of the HRC. The other one is uh it all starts
with a call, right? So a feeling of being feeling unsafe u is is a feeling and that can either be enhanced by your experience but it can also be tempered by education. So they
wanted to put together a forum u as as we described back in June when this wasn't such a hot item PCO kind of put it up but um we had talked back in June to start to educate reasons for homelessness to to kind of dstigmatize
it so that fear fear comes from sometimes um lack of awareness right so um the HRC really wants to try to tackle that as an education point through forum and through uh information distribution
so that so that so the list it's definitely there are resources on the HRC uh sub community to help with that that okay I think that's great um I I love this idea I think it's solid um I love the
idea of human relations committee taking a portion of this and helping out um I yes I am in touch with the council of purchase. I got their job description for the social worker they previously had and I think we can amend amend our job description with theirs to make sure
that this person is serving both sets of needs because poor people are it's hardly a portfolio and I I've heard from our council churches that there are folks in town who would actually benefit from the service as a whole. So I think it would be a good resource for the community as a whole. So I love that. I
really like this the uh SOP. Is that what that actually Thank you Paul. Thank you. I think this is a great great document to have. Um yeah, job description. I'll get back to you or if you want to do it together, we
can do that. And then the metrics. I would love to throw this at the human relations community too. Is there open to taking it or is this enough information? The reason the reason I didn't with something like that is because and the reason I went to the social worker is I want to make sure they're realistic.
Absolutely. I don't I don't want us to have expectations and as what you'll read um in the email is expectations of what we want to accomplish sometime under this topic are are not as quick forming as you would
like it to be. And so it's making sure what we consider reasonable progress is there. And that's why I kind of went to the social worker and said, "All right, you deal with this kind of stuff all the time. What what is this is this good or or not?" You know, is this something
realistic or is this something overreaching? Um, and I think in her comments is, you know, it's one thing to have the data that you're going to get from the monthly report and everything, but know that sometimes, you know, it's like many things in life
that I can think of, you know, it's one foot forward and and two foot back sometime, but that doesn't mean that it's not still making some progress. And so, we kind of have to look at that and and make sure we have realistic expectations for what those metrics are as we're moving forward. Totally fair. I
I I understand that. Um but you want to have I I just not to interrupt you, but you want to have something because also if we're putting the money in initially to start before it gets, you know, before fundraising happens or grants are
obtained or anything, we need to make sure we're holding them accountable and we're getting something from it. So, absolutely. Yes. Accountability um from all board. Uh two last comments. one I saw online and I don't go on Facebook as much as I should. So, I'm sorry if
forgetting who actually posted this, but someone suggested a GoFundMe page to help crowdsource funding for um this person's role. So, I think that's something we can take up. I'll search it. I'll find it. I don't The other thing to add to that is they can always make donations to the foundation. how to donate
once once I mean they'll be able to make they'll be they'll be able to make donations directly to this um but before that they could probably link them to the foundation and they've actually pledged that so I talked to Joe Murphy at the farmers market this week he actually wants to offer the services foundation to do this
that way they get the tax write off letter I know so but it's a big thing by the end of the year and you can get it started fast and you get faster so people can get those your donation because you know you can asked people for time, talent and treasure. We've got a lot some offers of
time and talent but um the expression that that got traction with was you know pay the order of who right right so to identify the pay the order of having foundation as a separate bucket until this entity could catch up
and catch on they it's a pastor so that they could start it because gofundmes they don't have the oversight that that like the foundation and I just wasn't sure that they got the letter necessarily well and that's a key hard too because we you're not talking $20, $30. You know, there are folks at this town that
that need that right at the end of the year, right? And and many of the organizations in town tap into into that. U well, what surprised me about that comment was that people are willing to do it at all. So like we can redirect them to like GoFundMe this. And then my last comment, I promise I'll stop, is
that folks offered help. I think we should take it. I I think we should take it. I think that help would be better with the entity that's created. 100%. Yeah. Once we get that up and running. Okay. So, then maybe last question. What do we what do we need to get this done?
Do you want to talk before that? Okay. Yeah. Go ahead. So, just a couple things. I think that the metrics are pretty good. One thing I would like to include in there is uh time from initial report uh to first contact as a homeless individual. That's not in there. That's a metric that essentially the police department has. I think, you know, uh they should
be beholden to the same standard, you know, uh right or at least be able to track how we're doing it and see if we're making progress to see if we're improving. on the police department.
I need an answer. Well, what we typically experience in the past is the call organizations we're 247 1:00 a.m. 5 a.m. you know 3:00 on a Sunday we don't get answers. But one of
those things with this individual because this individual isn't going to be working 24 hours a day. But Dave in one of the discussions he had with me talked about us creating a card. So, for situations where it's off hours and you're not going to be getting that individual, um whether
they're at a at a real job, you know, or whatever, there's a card we give the individual, the the person that we're responding to the call for and we say, you know, you need to contact this person, you know, and and give them all the information. and then you know reach
out then on working hours to the person that is hired and said we gave one of your cards to this person um you know this is where we saw them please follow up with them so you're giving it to both ends but that way because you're not going to be able to get somebody all the
time this isn't an agency with 247 service experience y very commonly you know we get a call in bought train person whatever you have we know they need help
there's nobody help right that should be part of yeah we need to draft up part of the plan for that and even in the spirit of the ordinance uh the acceptance of help is what we're really looking for so that would also be an acceptance of help even if they they
can't or there isn't uh you know immediate help that that could and acceptance of color. And that's part of the problem with some of the shelters. Many of the shelters have cut off periods. So, if you're not in by a certain point, so that 3:00 am phone call, we were not going to get it
because they shut their hours whether it's nine o'clock or seven. Yeah. So, you know, any overnights, it's like we're not and so again that may be something where nonprofit
can figure out a solution for those in a temporary basis. If you have professionals, let's say social workers or others or members of the clergy said that they want to participate, they're willing to help, which you were hearing a lot of, I think it's fair to put them on some sort of rotation like a watch
bill that once a week this person is the on call person and you know if it's whatever you get enough of them, it it's not that arduous. But um so the one night shelter offer too is something that some of the some of the churches have done in the past. I think
this allows um as I said to Tim come out of the shadows actually make it official so that we can tap into the good you're already doing but in a more official capacity instead of the um which leads
me to my next metric which is shelter bed provision which I think should be in place by the cur by the clergy and that is essentially that um you can put someone up in a hotel you can put someone up on the premises whatever the case may be, but that's specifically for the faith faith-based organizations
that's unique to them that I think it's a metric they should they should track. And I had uh and there's a few other ones in here maybe like you know uh spiritual and emotional support outcomes if the clergy wants to be heavily involved in it. I had a rather
right nice conversation with my priest yesterday uh about this and uh you know I I think that if if churches can report out by the scent how much revenue they've raised each year they should be able to report out to the person um what
kind of results they've got with the interactions with people and I say as a lifelong cradle Catholic uh with you know pride and admiration that we go to a church that pride raises a million dollars next year. Yeah. But I would also say too that in talking with
a member of uh the uh council of churches um you know I I it's my understanding that space has been offered up but they're pushing back on that space because it's not not exactly where they where maybe some of the churches would
want it. I'm not going to I heard this secondhand so I don't want to kind of you know drop a dime on anyone but I think it's worth it to look further in that that if a faith-based organization is offering up space to other faith faith faith based organizations and this person represents them I'd rather have
them in that space versus in our space. Are you thinking about the social record? Yeah. Yeah. I think I think again initially if there isn't a place and we can offer
a place in only initially not long term when you're setting up the the nonprofit. Well, that's one of the goals that for them to find their own space. I mean that was something that was even Yeah. Yeah. Right. And something they wanted too. Yeah. I mean because they wanted central.
Yeah. At some point in time, our participation should hold back except for the sharing information and um you know using them as a resource. Okay. You know, one of the things I was curious about was um with cold weather
and warming centers because we have you know the we have the heat advisories this summer have people pay and library not on the list but they facto nice place to stay cool not. Right. Right. And then the church um that what's the
SOP did cover this, right? What is the cold blue? The coat blue. We also have the Lutheran church and Babel K listed as a coat blue overnight. Not overnight. See, early summer it's the daytime that you got to stay cool, but in the winter
time it's the night time that you got to stay warm. Yeah. For Mabel K. and and I would have to check with the church or their, you know, what what their answers are. Um, you know, we don't want to keep somebody on staff overnight.
Sure. No, no, that's fair. I just was curious what we actually do do county cold blues for for on you know, I said the saddest thing I ever saw. Yeah, absolutely. Three medical examiners trying to crack a body just to get it in the back for a
solid symptom. I never want to see that. So, any other comments? Uh, no. I think the overall um pretty good probably some things to fine-tune here. Um, and then I think we have to just
align on the language. What are we going to call this? Um, you know, that's the Hadenfield uplift. Is that coming from council church? Is that library? What's that? It's in my rear end right now. Okay. All right. You pulled it from there or it's going there.
So, just going back to a Pier's question then. Yes. Um, so I think next steps then would be for um to to sit down and meet with the one or two or three folks that have said definitely they are of the faith base
that are definitely willing to move forward um and start the paperwork to create it. Again, like I said, I'm hoping from MESH to be able to get some of the legal documents they already have to make it easier for us to just move
forward. Um, but if not, you know, we can we'll recreate the wheel and and start all, you know, the bylaws and the other um documents. Yeah, we had a pledge from a resident who I already sent to uh Father Raymond who sets these up regularly.
Perfect. just sets them up regularly as individual um nonprofits in different areas for u um women starting over. That's wonderful because that's easier than the me trying to do the paperwork with the feds trying to get us set up
legally. And and just one other thing is that I do want to maybe just u something for Joanna to think about, but um you know, how do we make this uh more well known in the public where
you're not making feel people feel bad about you're drawing attention to the actions that we're taking, the results that we're getting almost like the the Tuesday bladder uh that we're doing with the police department now, but just kind of capture some of these key metrics and we put a cadence to it.
Okay. So, everyone is everyone is good with the idea that we're going to move in this direction. What I just want to confirm again because you've individually told me, but I w to I want to ask for a straw vote
here so that we can try and get some information out to the public ahead of the 29th so that we don't have to sit through another five hour. My understanding is that you're the three of you are all willing to begin with these steps and to table the
ordinance at this time which then actually unless you would bring it back up before December but in essence um and the the ordinance at this point I do I in favor you know as long as there's progress um
so the one thing about the ordinance that I don't want to get lost is softening the penalty for right public urination. We could we could we could do a separate introduction for just that one if you if you're the three
of you are you know or two of the three of you are interested in doing just that one. Wait, who got arrested for this is a is this a real thing? Yes. Yes. And then what happens was that sorry felony. It's a felony arrest and then you you like legit go to jail
for going to bathroom outside. Well, it actually depends on where you do it. Who you do in front of in front of children yourself on the side of an elementary school while their kids come in? Yes, you could be could be a felony and you
could be subject the rest of your life depending on the circumstances. If you do it at 3:00 a.m. behind, you know, you know, somewhere where nobody can see you, then it's, you know, this hurts with. So, it's all case specific. But we don't
have anything that's not case specific. This would this ordinance if we just carved out that section on urination would be the municipal ordinance violation and not subject to either being a children person or a crime.
Okay. And this isn't just for homeless. There's plenty of folks. Yeah. Yes. We've had we've had instances. It is an issue downtown. I believe you. Yeah. We do have a So So that's just separate from that. We could tackle that in a different way.
Yeah. Uh it could actually be tackled in general provision ordinance instead of maybe even a separate could be a separate amendment. It could be it could be no separate Yeah. But for your initial question as long as there's progress, you know, I I
kind of said it when we last the other week was the energy has to sustain because society can't fail because if society fails, public service can't or public safety can't. So, I don't want society to fail. As long as there's progress
here, I'm absolutely uh I'm willing to uh just uh forego for now the uh the amendment to the ordinance. No, but I would say that I do think we're missing an opportunity there
in some instances. And um you two of the people that uh Elizabeth mentioned were young people. I mean woman was either a teenager or like maybe in his 20s or something like that. And if you look at the stats if u if the people don't end
homelessness within their first year like year two and beyond it's like a 12% success rate. So you know I think that anyone who is young and is living on the streets um I think an opportunity loss is to have tough love and employ tough
love with that person. Have that person go before a judge. had the judge take mercy on that person and say, "Look, you were at a crossroads in your life where, you know, if you go to rehab, if you seek help and stuff like that, you can go on a better path. You know, if you don't, you find yourself back on the street, you're probably going to be on
the street forever." And so, I think what's lost in all this is like punishing the homeless and stuff like that. There's also like a a a large portion and having had a lot of young people in my care when I was in the military many years ago that um those people especially the first year in S
you've seen this they're at risk and like if you don't have a lot of discipline and keeping them on track and pushing them in the right direction and stuff like that they're going to go in a wrong direction. Um, so I'm fine, you know, kind of foregoing the amendment right now. But I do think there's a lot
of young people out there that especially if they're early in their stage of homelessness, we have to double down and really get them out of it. I think the question from Sharon is just table it on the 29th. I mean, it's not necessarily let it die for tableing on the 29th. We can revisit this 29th
in October, November. I mean, you still have additional opportunities, but I think the qu and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's just tableabling it on the 29th. Yes. to allow this process to begin. Sorry. Yeah. And we have the same goal, right? Like what you just described is exactly the same goal, right?
If someone is in the early stages of homelessness, we want to help them out of it. I think where we might disagree is that you believe in tough love. I don't think tough love is going to work. And I think this is a way to bring people along while building trust and relationship and get them off the street. Honestly, we all want that. We
want we want we don't want people living on the street. It's not safe for them. No one, we don't want to experience this. So, I I do appreciate that we're I I really do appreciate this and I'm very grateful that we're pursuing this path.
I'm excited to see where it's going to go and what we're going to learn out of it and I truly see this as an experiment of learning. So, I don't know. I I I'm feel good going into this. So, but I still would like to learn from uh Richard and Jeff.
Me, too. their experiences in summit because it does sound like there are some longer term kind of wins that we could learn from there. So there there's there's no harm in having those conversations as well. I don't know about having them with all of us because it's a public meeting that
kind of gets out of hand but you know we can uh Jeff and Jeff has reached out to me and I yeah I can yeah even subsequence the last meeting. So, you know, I I I'm going to since obviously usually a bridge here, um I agree that
for the same reason that it's the tough love responsibility isn't ours. The the absolute everything for for folks isn't our responsibility either. It's our responsibility to kind of give the foundation for the company to make an
offer in to to offer their their expertise and their effort uh to help off this problem. So, great church wrong pew for for kind of pay to both of you. But yes, the 29
there's no reason to move forward as long as other than Okay, let's move quickly with the the other things like let's not let moss grow beneath our feet. Okay. All right. Moving on the agenda. The next item is to talk about
amendments to chapter 109. Um, this is something that we did in 2024 in the spring of 2024. Um, this is to get us to go and ready. They've made some changes to their program and to
their their ordinance. Uh we have been having a slight uptick in the uh uh ads that they're coming here and being filmed. They do routinely find it.
So and you know with Netflix moving into New Jersey, I'm sure they'll be looking for other areas. So have we had a lot in Hville? I know we had the one of my street a few years ago, but we we haven't had necessarily movies. We've had a couple movies. Um, we've had more ads.
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Or something next to my building. Two weeks ago through Texas was the state of New Jersey. It was something. I mean, we looked out our window and there's a film crew there. We're Hallmark, right? Really?
Yeah. And actually, we did have a Hallmark movie. We did have fun. That was the one at the end of my street. It was something my death becomes her some that saved my life. There you go. You I remember you you were crying that
night watching it. Chief and death becomes there's there's something on Washington Avenue that like every six months they they film they like Washington Avenue. We see film crews. So, so these are basically just changes. Um,
I've went through and made a couple of additional minor changes uh that we'll send back to them. Um, but if you're okay with it, we will put this on for introduction at the end of the month. The only edits I see are the number of business days, right? And then the
permit shall not exceed 10 days of filming. There's that one. Yeah, they changed they changed the way that they're listing who is considered a major motion picture. Um they have a very extensive list. Well, they had an extensive list before, but they changed the way they are
listing it and added some additional ones. It's mostly changing number of day permit days from three to four. Um I'm sorry. The fee they they reduced Yeah. Um when you were able to actually film
unless you get permission to change otherwise. Um, one of So, the chief gets to make some, you know, if they need to require police on on staff, there's some some added language in there. Um,
and I just added under 109-7 that it's not solely on the burough clerk. She doesn't have the clearly have the authority to do that. but based on a report by the police department um wave any of the requirements because there if
you look at what she's waving it's actually mostly dealing with police activities and I would always be police anyway putting into verbage what the practice was yeah we just have to get a clarification on 109-9 because that doesn't that title
doesn't make sense for what it is um compliance they added a compliance section where we have to notify them when they're completed And also I just changed they're putting in film ready liaison. We don't have that position. So
I just put the bur clerk in there because that's the only place that it's mentioned. Is there any reason not to leave the indication? Yeah because you don't ne you may but you don't necessarily know when they're completed or when they're even starting
unless the tells you. So it allows one person. Oh yeah, that doesn't that way it's in that office. Yeah, the permit's coming through that office. It's just easy to stick it.
Any other questions? You okay with it? Yes. Okay. We'll have an offering reduction at the end of the month. So you said you had an issue with reckless operation control. because that's just so they don't do like car chases and
I don't know it doesn't it doesn't make sense the title doesn't make sense for what's included underneath the title I'm just thinking about the making of the project you ever saw you know the city of Chicago it must not happen I'm sure this says in addition to to any
fees or costs mentioned in this chapter the applicant shall reimburse the bureau for any lost revenue and goes on talking about revenue that doesn't go with that title right no it doesn't so it's just like something's off here either we're missing something or something. Also, we're not the right vibe for a voiceless
for a high speed. Yeah. Yeah. It's not quite We've had them. We were last year. Yeah, we were last year. British chip shop. Yeah. Wait, was that a police chase? You didn't have to chase. You could
follow the bruise all and your choice. Don't. All right. Um, moving on. Next item on the agenda is talk about the 92925 meeting. Obviously, any additions and changes that occurred this evening will be added to it. Other than that, it is a
pretty quiet meeting so far. Uh, one of the questions that HRC had is, uh, they're trying to coordinate the meeting dates with the proclamations for the different month proclamations, different heritage months. And yes, that we just have to follow up with
them just to make sure that they're since we don't so we don't miss an opportunity because we we kind of do one or two. We have to go back because one of the things I have to do is go back and look because I thought we had done that and I just got to find the the rest of the ordinance. you've been talking about
those things. I got to find the emails that uh I exchanged that I have with them where I'm pretty sure I spelled it out where where they were and that may just with changes in in leadership there may have gotten lost in the transition
because we don't necessarily add proclamations on until somebody requests them. Right. Well, that's what they wanted. They they wanted schedule so that they could that that committee could make sure they're staying on on top of it. Yes. What the agenda? Can I make a request? Um, I was speaking to Sherry uh from
Mabel Pay and they had over the summer several young folks come in and offer to be tech tutors for the seniors who visit. Um, would it be pos possible for us as a burrow to do some sort of an acknowledgement certificate to thank them for volunteering?
Certificate of appreciation or appreciation would be great. Yeah. And I can send you the names of folks I already have. That would be perfect. Yeah. Go ahead. because I've got something um already set up for certificate of appreciation and a little neat thing about what they've done and why we're giving it to
Yeah, we've we've honored them for their memoirs high school students. No, that was this is still a good idea. Yeah. She also had two kids separate as you
were um volunteer with them cleaning up the shed and a lot of stuff. Yeah, I'll add them too. I'll actually tell me about that. Yeah, Christ the King. I think it was just a boy cast 64. Oh,
recognize the troop. Certainly. Anything else to the agenda? Um, next is is an update um from PFH. So, you have candle light shopping. It's that time of year to approve that resolution again. So, um, unless there's any comments, questions, or concerns
regarding the annual candlelight shopping event, we will add that. That is its own special resolution. Um, I'm assuming we're also doing the approval at that point for not charging parking um, from
day after Thanksgiving through Christmas Day or through the end of the year. So, November November 28th. November 28th this year was the day after Thanksgiving. Yes. It's a shorter window. So the day after
Thanksgiving is near the end of the month. Yeah. New returning the stuff they bought after New Year's. That's Well, then after New Year's they can pay [Laughter]
maybe make them re return. Okay. Um well since quite here uh how many weekends uh is the candle light shopping? Four Fridays and shop
introduction. Yeah, four Fridays. Um, and we started something last year from the last couple days of the holiday just to emphasize some of the special shopping hours things like that
last magic as part of our promotion. Okay. Uh next item is uh any other items? So we have they are they're getting ready to do the ribbon cutting for the palace
or for the place rather. 40 slip. Um they are they have their list of residents of future residents. They are just walking through some last minute red tape um with DCA since they provided
the funding and they expect to have that in within the next month. The urgency I gave I gave Chris that date. I think they're going to be sending all those paperworks paperwork out to them just in case to the public. uh federal funding for
the school districts are locked in place on October 16th for the year uh based off of your popular your school age population on that date. Uh so we're really encouraging them to have the students identified and enrolled in the district so they don't miss two years of
funding, one year not being on the books and then a year before they so want to try to cut a whole year off by getting it by. So, I did talk to Chris about that and made sure she's going to make sure that they get paperwork done for that before that date. Um, Joanna and I were talking
about the best way to do the rhythm cutting um where we could get just because this is going smoothly and you're giddy to get out of here. That was a good dad. Well, he has great sisters in the truck. Yeah.
All right. Anyway, um we're trying to talk about how the best way to get some media coverage since this is our first big um place and and really it's I will tell you it's been a very long time and I had some conversations with a neighbor
or two this weekend, you know, because having had lived through all my neighbors being incredibly upset about that being built there, um you know, they're all relatively happy with the way it turned out. And you know, and I said to one this weekend, I said, I knew
for the past 20 years, we just had to get the first one built, and then once people are in it, people will understand it's not the horrible thing they think it is. Um, so we want to make it a good story. Um, and so Joanna is recommending that we do a Tuesday or Wednesday night
or Monday or Tuesday night. An evening, an evening like 5 5:30. Um, so we can try and get a TV crew here. Um, and to maybe do a little, you know, you know,
families there. You know, we can have we can have, you know, I don't know, new resident packets or something made up for them. Actually, I had a few residents reach out to me wanting to put together a welcoming committee and a welcome package uh for folks who are moving in. So, okay. Can we coordinate with them,
too? Sure. They want to get like um one of their husbands is an artist and wants to donate some artwork to those apartments and they want to pick up some stuff from downtown like Hatenfield mugs or blankets. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Um
newcomers club. Is that still a thing? It is still a thing but I don't think that's what she's talking only for this. Yeah. Gotcha. It's only for this like welcome to heaven. Newcomers club. Fair. So, uh, we'll get back to Are you okay
with that idea of an evening? Yeah. Are you gonna be able to get back like 5:30? Yeah. Yeah. It's not a Thursday, but it's Yeah. Yeah. We We She thinks Monday or Tuesday better for news coverage. Um, so
we will work on that. Um, and I'm working with Chris trying to get DCA to move as quickly as possible so we can try and get this soon. So, one thing about this, and this is like just going completely off topic, but the the firm that manages this, if you search on their site, they don't
have any listings for anything in Camden County. So, what happens and then the other link that we had before that had all the non uh place addresses, all the ones in Hadenfield, the place isn't listed on that. So, my trial.
Yeah. Well, this isn't with triad. All right. So, this is CIS. So, CIS doesn't have this on their site either because CIS creates a separate entity for each of their units. They probably have one when it's finished and designed
and approved and people are moved in so that they can say, "Here's one of our projects that we've done." They may not have updated their website yet. So, if you want to live here, what is the link to? Oh, they they there was a whole process that they had to market down.
Yeah, it's down because they're because they they've completed their process. Now, the the link for Triad is like perpetually up, but we have like 3,000 people for eight units. Okay. So, people can always put their name on
it, but um for a future work session. Yes. Uh so that is the place. So we will continue working on that and trying to get a date um as we get closer. We we'll send you a couple dates and find out
what is best available hopefully by the end of this month. Um I hope it's not. Um, okay. You are headed to a mayor's meeting soon and you asked to have a brief discussion to talk about any
regional items that this group wants you to take back to our neighbors, right? Um, the three that come to mind are changes from the backup, storm water management, just regional coordination
of her work county. the three that I was thinking of if we don't do it. So that so last time it was rush fire love it didn't happen. So u that's that's the topic that caught
fire and this one is a special one because it's Glouester County and Camden County Mayor Association together. Anything pertaining to uh Cooper River? I mean, you can I mean, my my stuff, right?
Yeah. I mean, you can. Um, so this meeting is a meeting of all the the mayors talking about, you know, whatever new thing is down the line and then having a chance to talk with each other and complain about the problems that they're facing and how are you facing it and how am I facing it, blah,
blah, blah. Um, so the Cooper River project is basically just Cherry Hill and us at this point. Yeah. So, and Cherry Hills Environmental Commission supports it. Our
environmental commission supports it. Again, it's trying to address the the funding and and yeah, it's state. So, if you if you come across anyone who is from the state, then yes, if not, then it's not worth it. Yeah. The other thing that was a topic
at the last mayor's meeting is also celebration of the 4th of July on 3rd of July. So most of the towns are really considering the 3rd of July um the national the official the official holiday is fourth but that's Saturday. So the third is the recognized holiday
um to not compete with Fourth of July in Philadelphia. So when you talk about storm water there is a grant that Joanna listened in on because Tier and I were over county parks. Um coming from I think D
um and it is for towns to look at regional approaches to issues um mostly storm water related issues. And what I'm going to be reaching out to is the is the um
what's the name of that? What's the name of it? Newton. Thank you. Newton Creek. Um, Newton Creek causes us one of our biggest problems. Yes. Um, and so I know you and I talked about it back when we were in public works and I we were originally going to try and sit down with all the towns. Well, now
there's this grant that state's not going to give you money. What they're going to do is give you resources. They're going to bring in all of their professionals that are going to sit down and go through it with all of you and try and come up with solutions and that you'll then be able to apply for potentially for other funding in
other ways. um that is a regional issue. There's nothing we can do. I was actually on the phone this morning with a resident uh whose cousin lives over on North and you know addressing the issue and just the bigger problem it is and what the
problem with the creek problems we have with the creeks title. Sometimes our pipes are partially you know the water's up high enough so that you you're not getting full flow coming out. Um when it's high tide, you're not going to get full flow coming out. Um just the amount
of water from our town alone, forget what filters over from Barington and and Ottabon um and Heights. Um that coming down to that one area trying to get out where you have four towns below us that are already filling it.
There's a straight line right from Ginsburg all the way down to Yes. I think Cooper River in that area is a seven foot title difference through the year. Yeah, it's pretty significant. Yeah. So, um to me that is an instant,
you know, project that that would that would definitely be something that hopefully this grant it be successful, but we have to all pass the same thing. And so, then that still has to go to the feds though, too. No, this is this is solely from us. This is just this isn't this isn't the Army
Corps because you and I talked about going to the Army Corps. This is the EP offering all of their specialists and professionals to help solutions for regional issues in New Jersey solely. But if the outfall is in
a dollar, it is, but D still has control of it right now. Okay. What you can do is you can go to Army Corp of Engineer to try and get additional assistance. I was just on with the legislators last last week. um
because we're still working on trying to change language and you know one of the issues is going to army corps right now they don't have the funding they're pulling back all their funding for everything so I'm not sure we would get anywhere um so since this is offered let's see
what can be done and if nothing else I may come up with a solution that we're then able to take the ar to war yeah so we can come up with a plan but we don't have the funds this is something you got to show up with right so talk to any of the mayors that are on the creek and say you know this is an idea this came out because you
know I'll be reaching out to their clerks or administrators or whatever and trying to get everyone to agree to do this. Great. I think another thing too, not to the words in chief's mouth too, but any of the municipalities that are non DOC compliant the intent of the police
station is to have that as a shared service. And I don't know who I don't know if you know who or who is not and probably Barington too right the other thing too um with that is maybe in conjunction with the county
trying to come up with you know one of the things I always wanted to do was because we have this whole issue of of having to go to the jail is trying to come up with like a little place that the county has like an off-site location for the county jail so that surrounding
communities go far. Yeah. Could come here to turn prisoners over, right? You know, and then also one of the things we talked about with the new police station um you know, for 2026 potentially is the training room. you
know creating a big enough space that we can do you know mutual training out there for all the communities count is big for work in the audience 56 towns isn't it 37
valley 36 36 pel valley 36 it goes it's pretty large. Yeah. One of the from Winsow to Kansas. Yeah. So, anytime you county service, you're
either going to Blackwood or Cambridge. If we live in Hatfield, so we're only a couple miles away. You live in Winslow, you live in that way. You're driving. Yeah.
Anything else for Dave saying? I do have two other quick things that we're not Thank you. um opening of the playground. So, the playground equipment should have been finished being installed today. They're going to start mulching it tomorrow. Um
I was on the phone with the owners of the playground equipment company today and they were asking if we were going to do a ribbon cutting ceremony or something because they would like to come down if they're available to participate and hand out flags or
something, whatever. Um, sounds like a great weekend. So, just let me know um if you want to move forward with something like that. Joanna can work it up. Yeah, that' be nice.
And I can reach out to them and let them know if they're available. Um, and then lastly, we from Kirsty, we got uh another outdoor marketing graphic display permit from
Misha of Siberia Spurs. You guys don't have the sweet packet. Um, Diana just gave it to me. Um, so they are on King's Court and they are just asking for an Al marketing signed stand.
Yep. Standard frame height 24 by 40 and is white plastic the same height and same size and height as other frames in the courtyard. Yeah. And give you guys some background from from the HPC perspective. this particular um merchant had come before
the HBC because they have original jurisdiction for all business signs and the and so there were some issues with regard like the signage and I think the business that they had taken over had their windows covered in signage um so they they did like reduce a lot of their window signs and diminish what was there
um and I think this is you know some sort of accommodate that's the background that you guys would otherwise have but um you know they they've been trying and making serious efforts to comply to comply. Yeah. So, it's and a good thing. And this is no different than the other
ones you see out there. Most all the shops at King's Court. Yeah. These these signs got expanded from just restaurants to the retail maybe 10 years ago and it was a it was a let's try it, see how it works.
Okay. I mean, I think like it's the same as everyone else's, so obviously we should approve it. I have a grudge with it like just existing at all. Um, my mother-in-law is blind and she walks
independently and this is a tripping hazard. In fact, she has tripped in front of the one from a wild feather. Now, I love wild feather. I don't want them to go anywhere, but the fact that they these sort of triangular things just exist. Um, can we at least make some sort of like it has to be I mean
this is fine in this picture but it has to be right up against a store like it can't be hovering in the We can look what the existing ordinance states now. Okay. And then talk to Kirsty about enforcing Yeah, the nearest edge of the sign must
be within one foot of the course. Oh, isn't it? I forgot the things. I believe it's just the nearest edge meaning come off off but in this picture that's that's actually trigger and King's Court is not. Yeah, because
court isn't 100% coverage. It has the has the stove beds. And how how wide are they? They're what? Like usually two feet and you're three feet from the building. That's the tricky part.
Yeah, just maybe it's more enforcement than it is policy. Yep. That's all I have for I'm good. Wait, if we're actually This is going
down in history as one of our shortest work sessions thus far. If we can pull it out. attendance. Don't go home. But can we hear those reports? Uh so before we adjourn, we have reporters.
Oh yeah. And and that's something for a future work session to kind of work out the of time. Um just go
um so just to clarify the piecing order in table on the it would be on the agenda. Can they have to actually take the motion to to to tinkle it? Okay. Will we be able to tinkle it before the public hearing
or do we have I I think we should I think because it's been advertised I think it's been listed but I think we should continue to list it but with the notation that it's been taped. So table will be table. Yeah. So so that way put it on the agenda as such. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This way people will know it's there. It's we're not going to
complain that it's now off the agenda. It's continue to be there. But just know that it will be tabled. It'll be bold and capitalist. And will we have a chance to speak about the alternatives that we're pursuing during the meeting or no? Um, you
typically wouldn't, but I guess you could open yourself up to saying that rather than you can table it and then have the three commissioners can have comments saying this is the action we're taking instead. Okay. Yeah. Or the reasons why you feel it's
appropriate to table it at this point. Okay. Got it. But it would be done at a hearing level. There wouldn't be a separate public comment period. No, you wouldn't actually put it on the table. Correct. And can we start talking about that now or should we wait until the agenda is out?
No. Um Joanna in her post work session summary will summary can address it in that. Okay, perfect. And then in advance of the agenda the information out will be you know this is on on it however it is it is uh set to
be tabled. Great. the social worker position that you mentioned. I was confused. Would that be strictly through the burrow or can you explain that again for me? I'm sorry. So, we are looking to work with the
council of churches or members some members of the council of churches to set up a nonprofit. Okay. Um that nonprofit would hire the social worker. So, not not a burrow employee. Correct. and and a nonprofit is non-
denomination major. And the last thing is uh Sharon, can you tell me what those October events were called? The two new ones that you talked about or rather new. Uh one was pants across New Jersey. It's actually set to happen on September
17th. And the other one that we talked about tonight was Breastfest Block Party raising funds and awareness for breast cancer patients and their families. It is tenatively we're going to go back to
them with 1016 as the possible date um and try and work out the other details. It's part of the Tyiana Foundation. Sorry, the Tiana Foundation hold the press festival. Thursday night 16.
Uh Abigail online. You have any questions? All right. Yep. We're good. We'd like to make a motion to close. I'll make it. I'll make a motion. I'll second it. All in favor I. Any opposed?