is in. >> Yeah, I was say I didn't think we were recording. >> Now we're live. >> Okay. Good evening everyone. In accordance with the open public's meeting, this meeting has been sent to the retrospect and posted on the bulen board in Burough Hall. The first item on
the agenda is the public comment period. We will take public comment from anyone in the room first and then go to Zoom. Is there anyone in the room that would like to speak to the commissioners at this time? It's the only time. >> All right.
>> Dave, is this Are you gonna >> No, you you should talk. I mean, this is >> I thought I was just listening to you speak. >> No, no, you can share your piece. Share your piece with everyone because you emailed just me. >> I thought I was listening to you speak. >> Wait, it's not on our agenda until
unless you want to bring it up. Okay. So name and street and you have to come up so we can all hear. >> Yeah, >> but um >> All right.
>> So name and street. >> So um I've been in town since 1985, class 96. >> Sorry. >> He doesn't really said no. >> All right. Uh, we'll talk about it in
close then because it is a public safety issue that I don't even know what their positions are. >> So, what's the issue in >> that a problem? >> It is because it's a public meeting. I if it's important enough, you got to talk. I mean, that's just the way it is.
I mean, >> no, no, that's Yeah. Come and sit with us. >> So, I've been in town since my entire life. Graduated 96. chief. I mean, you've retired my uncle. Like, I care about this town deeply. But one of the things that goes back to the 80s is this
idea that it can't happen here. I've heard that phrase since I was a kid, and I still hear it now as an adult, as a father of kids in town. It can't happen here. It can't happen here. But like, we've experienced an incredible amount of tragedies in this country over the last couple decades. And that's the
common refrain is that after something happens, it's, "Oh, we never thought it would happen here." Right? So in the events that are taking place now all across the country, is there a position from the people in charge of this town
what we're supposed to do? What am I supposed to tell my kids? Because if it is a public safety issue, which I agree with >> about about what specifically because you haven't said >> I mean what' you emailed me about. >> I mean I think we all know what's taking place all around the country. I mean we all know
>> referring to Minnesota. >> Yeah. I mean it's it's more than just one. It's all over the place, right? It's not I'm not here. This is not I'm not here have zero interest in making this a political conversation, but like Dave said, >> like this idea that it can't happen here, I think is a very privileged and unrealistic position to take.
>> So if there are children walking around, my kids, their friends, whoever, do we have a position in the town how we want our children to respond? >> Respond to what specific I mean >> I'll say it out. Yeah, I have no idea
what Sorry, wasn't sure. >> If ICE would have um an action in town, is there an official position or what's the SOP? >> Yeah. What would you tell your children >> cuz it's coming up. I'm hearing I'm hearing kids talk about it and I just want to know what we should tell our kids.
>> Attorney General Guidelines have put up it's called an immigrant trust director >> and and all police departments have to follow that. It's very simple. It's very, it's online. Um, I would suggest you go to the New Jersey General's uh
New Jersey Attorney General's website and just type in immigrant trust directive. >> Yeah, there are certain guidelines that we can and cannot do as law enforcement officers. And most of it is we cannot interfere with them. We cannot help them. We cannot notify them. So if you
go there, I would read that. >> Who's them? You you can't >> like real what what would you say to a group of eighth graders, a group of seventh graders >> that are saying, "Hey, if I'm walking in the street and one of my friends gets grabbed, what should I do?" I don't feel
comfortable saying, "Well, the attorney general from Jersey would say this to a toddler." >> So is there like is there is that has that come up? Is anybody else thinking about that? It hasn't come up on on our end to tell you the truth,
you know, as a police department because all my officers, we have to follow this directive. And I understand what you're saying. 12year-old's not going to read. I'm not readirect. >> I know you guys are very good, too. I'm just saying like there's a lot of kids in town and they're all talking about this.
>> Yeah. So, as a town, like are we suggesting to the superintendent? Are we suggesting to the schools what to tell our children? >> I don't think it's there's been a discussion at this point. It's the is the answer right now. And I think what we can do moving forward is have a
conversation with the schools and the commissioner of public safety and determine if there's something that we do want to put out officially for those cast advocates. What would feel good to hear? I know that's not as satisfying as
>> Yeah. No, because this feels I mean it's you know I mean like >> this this is all happening while we were on break so we haven't had a chance to talk about it to be honestly but >> everybody's thinking about on their own. Right. >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> So like >> I feel like everyone crazy. >> No you're not crazy but it it would be good to hear like what would make you
feel safe? What do you feel what do you need to hear to feel safe? >> What would you tell your kids? I mean, you say you don't want to get it political, but like I I >> Exactly. Because I think we're kind of past that because like when God forbid it happens because like it happens, you
know, a mile from my house, my kids ride their bikes. You know what I'm saying? Like it literally happened actually 3/4 of a mile from where I live in town. >> There was ice. >> Yeah. >> And they picked someone up. >> A family 3/4 mile from where I live in town. So like, and my kids are out
riding their bikes. Like, you know, like not everybody in town looks like us, guys, right? We can all acknowledge that, right? So if what would you again it's so far past political I'm just talking strictly like SOP what do you want to tell the children to do the same
we would tell them what to do in a fire right we have fire drills in the school unfortunately we have active shooter drills in school unfortunately this to me is the safety issue like what do we tell our kids so they don't get themselves in trouble so they don't get themselves accidentally hurt so they don't you know tread something they
shouldn't be because they're children they don't know how to react to this stuff adults know how to act this stuff unless you So, like what would we all tell our children to do tonight? If you went home and your kid asked you, "What what should we do if this happened?" What what are you guys going to tell them?
>> Well, I tell them, especially for kids, they don't carry identification. So, I've told my children, I don't have ID. I'm an American citizen. Uh that's all I ever tell them to say, but comply. Sure.
You know, I I've always told my children it's nothing can be solved in the moment, but it can be solved, right? So, unfortunately, you have to sometimes comply, but compliance isn't
defiance. You know what I mean? So, I'm trying to think of like what I've told my I only have one one child that is a minor >> any. Yeah. No, no, sure. >> Grossly weird. Yeah, >> but I always say you vouch for your friends too, right? If if
>> Well, that see this is where I'm getting to. Like if if if my son is walking home from school with someone that doesn't look like us and he opens his mouth and says something like >> we got a problem. >> Yeah. But but if the if the first reaction, I'm just talking to my child
is don't be an [ __ ] to the cops. One, you know, and two, you know, so that's why I said nothing gets solved at the moment when passion is high. So comply and that's you know I like the literation so it sticks in your brain you know when passion's high comply
because anything can be solved >> yeah sure >> yeah no no but it has nothing to do with ICE too it's anybody who's in genuine authority asks and stops to talk to you just escalation doesn't help anybody
>> I agree >> my observation my eyes my ears is that would kind of beyond that and this is new territory for everybody. So, if this is like, hey, handle at your house the way you want to handle it. Family, no
problem. I'll get out of it. But I one I've never been to one of these meetings my entire life. >> And you brought up an issue we haven't talked about. Like a tier said, a lot of this stuff had come up during the break. I mean, the kebab people in Hen Township was not during the break, but
to me that was more of an isolated incident. >> How so? >> How so? There really hasn't been one since. to me. >> Well, I mean I I I would almost take it like I view everything for like a risk profile like what is the like risk and
probability and and that goes back to the military construction job sites that that for 30 years? What is the the probability of risk in Hadenfield? It it it's very low given the fact that u the likelihood of it happening is is
very low. So, should you draw attention to it or should you leave it to uh you know the parents to have discussions with their kids? I'm more along the lines of what Dave said and my dad used to be a prosecutor and coach me before I started driving a car that like
when they pull you over it's yes sir ma'am no sir ma'am you know make sure you have your documents with you make sure you're complying and you know don't make a scene because it's just going to escalate from there and I think that in today's environment is probably still
pretty good advice >> I mean if it helps my kids are little so the way I talk about this is very different to them. I tell I tell them we protect each other and we protect our neighbors, but we do deescalate, right? When these folks are showing up, they're
showing up with weapons and they're showing up already agitated. They they're here to like pick up someone and take them home. So, or take them away. So, if I were in a position I I don't know about kids, again, they're mine are small, but I would position myself in a
way where I can deescalate the char the charge environment and see if I can protect my name if that's how I it um now I don't know if we're ready to make that a burough level statement I know how I personally act um again this we need to discuss it and and come to an agreement on that
>> yeah I I respect that I think I I would hope the official statement wouldn't be we're had and feel this doesn't happen here I would hope that would be our official position >> like you were to suggest >> it can happen here anything can happen here the same way they anything can happen to anybody but What I'm saying is
that when if you look at the risk profile, it's probably pretty low risk of that, you know, half due to what happened >> due to what what is what is how how are you coming with that risk profile based on what? >> I would say probably based upon you know the targets that ICE and other people
are going after. >> Okay. >> Okay. Great. >> No, thanks. I mean you gave us something to think about. >> Okay. We we will. That's qu I promise. >> It's okay. I don't I don't have any expectations, so it's all good. I
>> No, appreciate it though. >> Is there anyone else in the room that would like to speak to commissioners? >> Charge topic. We'll talk. I mean, it's best just to do it's in close session. >> Yes. Is there anyone else in the room that would like to speak with the commissioners at this time? >> This the only opportunity.
>> All right, we'll move to Zoom. >> Is there anyone on Zoom that would like to speak to the commissioners at this time? >> Is there anyone on Zoom that would like to speak with the commissioners at this time? >> Oh, let's see. Can you uh can you hear me?
>> Yes, Walter, we can hear you. >> Oh, I didn't I was looking for the button of what button to to raise my hand or whatever. So, hi, I'm Walter Widenbalker 1148 Center Street. Hello everybody. Um I saw on the on the agenda
uh you're going to be talking about use of public space. Is that right? >> Yes, we do every work session. >> Okay. Yeah. What' you say, Dave? I said we do every work session. That's usually when people want to have parades or sell
cookies. Actually, in this one, it's about selling cookies, but uh that's the use of public space. >> Okay. Well, I want to I want to submit that might might fit that. What does that mean? I can talk about it during this session or should I wait? >> Only this session. This is the only
opportunity you got. >> Oh, well then I'll do it now. So, okay, we're we're good. We're good. >> You're cracking me up, Walter. I can't wait to hear this. >> Yeah, I know. And I'm not even trying.
Um, so, um, uh, so we're all concerned. Uh, we we're all very concerned a a while ago, and we're all still concerned about the assassination of Charlie Kirk. And uh
this has to do my question has to do with the use of public space. So there were a couple of residents who would like to have a like some kind of a recognition of Charlie Kirk's contributions.
And uh lo and behold uh we're unable to find a space that will will allow such use. I've been to the churches and the churches say, "Well, you know, it's it's all about politics, so no, not here."
And then I go to the burrow, specifically use of the uh Maple K property, and they said, "Well, no, we can't uh we can't have it here because it's religious." And uh so so my my
question is uh so where does one go for such a a public event uh as as recognition of a of a fallen what I think is a fallen hero. >> Walter, if you're trying to hold an
event, you need to go through our event process and and determine what you're looking for um and request use of space. So, if you're trying to hold a rally or uh you know hold a a prayer circle or
something, you need to determine what you're trying to do and then submit an event permit and we can discuss it and determine whether or not the space is available. If you're trying to put it on hold the event on pro public property, >> public property includes this route.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. If you're trying to hold an event, if you're trying to put something, memorialize something, that's different. And and you know, you are correct in the fact that we typically will not recognize things. We will not use public
space to recognize things of religious or political nature. >> Oh well, well, thank you, Sharon. That's that's uh good to know. And I was just not aware of that. I I had inquired when I say I inquired to the burough, it was indirectly uh and in this case it was
you know I talked to Sherry Seagull and and she checked with Commissioner Cole who said gave it the thumbs down as far as I understand it. And so that's that's my uh uh that's my concern.
>> So figure out what you're trying to do and then get back to us but not through this meeting. You have to fill out the permit. >> Understood. Okay. Thank you. I'm glad I asked. Thank I have another I have another concern. Uh can I It's another
issue. >> One minute. >> Okay. We got time. I'll make it quick. So, there are just a few residents in Hadenfield who have to buy a special parking m permit. And in my case, it's for the lot behind the Baptist church.
And uh because we don't have a driveway, uh the burough makes the space available to us and they just uh almost doubled our rate from $61 to $101. And my question is,
uh if if we're going to be paying more for this permit, can you change the sign so that it can be understood by anybody who parks there? because on uh certainly on big event days in Hadenfield
and on uh uh e even many Saturdays uh people park in those in those places and then we if we are so foolish or need to uh go somewhere we come back we we can't park in our space because somebody's
there and uh and of course they're never ticketed uh because it just doesn't happen. So it it happens and it's been happening well for as as long as as I can remember. But this the signs I think could be rewarded so that people because
innocent people they come up and the sign just says permit parking only or maybe burrow parking only and then they uh and then they park their car and wow they found a space and they're glad. So they don't know what the sign means. I
don't blame them. So they take their chances and they park there. and it pays off for them. I don't blame them. But if uh if if I'm [clears throat] if I'm out and I come home and I need to park way
down yonder and walk home u so I'm just saying can those I guess the the solution would be the uh changing of signs. Okay. >> We'll take a look at the sign. Walter, >> I'm sorry. >> We'll take a look at the sign specifically the one you're talking about. I can tell you from my Monday
mornings when people come in, many a person complains about a ticket they get here and according to our coffers, we write a plenty of them. So, >> no, David, I'm not saying that they're not writing tickets. I know I know that the uh parking officers are active and
everything. I'm just saying uh that it's never happened that I know of. Anyway, that doesn't mean >> Sure. Well, if it makes you feel better, the last weekend of the farmers market, they towed seven cars out of the Acme parking lot. So, >> out of out of out of out of which parking lot? >> Acme.
>> That me seven cars the last day. >> That's that's another case. I'm I'm not I'm talking about I I guess I'm talking about the spaces behind and next to my house at 48 Street. So, you understand? >> Yes.
>> Thank you. And David, do you read your email? I do. Oh, >> I'm just not going to talk to you about your music. That's all. You know, I'm embarrassed about it. >> No, I want to I want to get an answer from you. Thank you. >> All right. You're welcome. >> Is there anyone else on Zoom that would
like to speak to the commissioners? >> Seeing none, we're going to move on with the agenda. Next item on the agenda is to discuss use of burrow property. As was indicated, the only use of our property we have at this time are the Girl Scouts. We've given them approval. This
has been their um as we indicated before, uh we come to you with new events and just kind of advise you on the year after year events that are just have just been approved. So, the Girl Scouts have worked in conjunction with some of the businesses to be outside some of the businesses at different
times between January and March. They have different troops, so it's not always the same troop in every single space. They shift it around to provide everyone as many opportunities as possible to sell their cookies. Um, when they are in front of a particular store,
uh, they have received permission from that store to have the table in front of the store so that they're not, uh, stopping traffic from going in that store if they're working in conjunction with them. Um, and they will be in King's Court. I believe it's on Saturdays or Sundays, I forget.
Um, so that is just bringing you up to date on the use. You'll see them popping up. And it's not just because they have a Saturday approved or a a date approved doesn't mean they're actually going to be there. It's only if the troops available and has people that can attend, >> right? And it used to be they had to ask
for the specific date and a specific location. And now we kind of give them a >> a blanket >> a blanket which which my habit really appreciates. And there's no way we're saying no stuff. Yes. >> All right. >> Cookies now.
>> Any any questions on that? >> No. >> There's a website. >> All right. Moving on to the next item to talk about is the discuss the ambulance fees. Um so our ambulance uh the the carrier sorry carrier is not correct.
The um company that collects our fees for us EMS. Um they go through and do an annual review of our fees compared to what is being charged um elsewhere and what
what is an acceptable rate to charge in order for us to get the most um to to get the sufficient fees from the insurance companies that we can get. What we you see in the chart here is the Medicare allowable um in urban areas
already designated for any Medicare application. That's what we're going to receive regardless of what our fee is. >> Um and the same with the Medicaid, but the insurance companies obviously those numbers change from time to time. They
are recommending a that we are able to go a fairly sizable increase to our rate if we are looking to do so. That is coming in front of you because that is also all specifically spelled out in our ordinance what our rates are.
>> Uh what's our rate visa v our neighbors? >> Um we are lower than our neighbors. I do not recall the exact numbers off the top head but I do remember when we did when we did this two years ago we were lower. >> All right. And this is going to sound naive because this I've never served in
this area at all. Uh I think of like the tow trucks and fill it, right? So you got the tow truck chasers. When a call comes in, >> do they race to the scene? How does that get distributed? Is it luck in the draw? >> No, it is if if a call comes is made in
Hadenfield, >> they're going to tone out the Hadenfield ambulance first. >> Okay. >> And if we are not available, then they will tone out the next one on one. It's on a list. Correct. And the same for other towns because we go do a number of calls out about 30% of our calls are out
of town. >> Yeah. >> And and curious and I'm going to anecdote at this, right? Uh so I was at Tavistock for a friend of mine's mother's 80th birthday and she had a little too much liquid and not enough
solid and so she went down. Right. And I called, they called 911. I called I called, right? And so our guy showed up, but the before the ambulance and they took care of her, they told they told the parent, you know, they told the
husband who was 84 uh that he could ride with them because if it was the Hadfield one, he could have hopped in. Cherry Hill showed up and they said, "No, you can't." So I was just curious. >> You can't if the >> Yeah, I think they were throwing me a solid, but that's besides the point >> because I had them called to my neighborhood twice in the last week. So
>> yeah. So I was just curious if it was a race to the show. No. So, so then again, so what did we do with the money? >> So, the money is used to the money comes into our general fund. Now, the reason we initially created >> and the woman was five, by the way. She
kind of laughed it off, but she did go down like a heap of that. Um, the ambulance fee was initially created back in 2006 to help offset uh additional costs that we were going to be having by putting by staffing 247.
And our cost to run the ambulance is closer to over a million dollars. We bring in around $300,000, 340, 350, somewhere around there. So, it is a an assistance to help offset the cost of our services. Okay.
Okay, I have a few questions. Um, >> this is I mean it's Medicare obviously. So this is we're charging 65 plus I mean like residents in our town. >> Does this come out of their pocket or does Medicare cost? >> That's that's Medicare. >> Medicare covers. Okay. >> We have soft
>> and we accept that as 100% payment. >> We Yes, we do soft billing. >> Okay. >> So regardless of anything, we do soft billing. >> So we do we accept 100% payment from any insurance or Medicare. We don't typically get 100% of >> No, no, no. We accept we accept the
reimbursement as a 100% pay. >> Yes. >> When we were doing our budget reimbursements, we were basing it just upon our Medicare payments, right? >> When we were when we were exploring what we were going to do with maybe additional personnel on it, we were basing it just upon because a low >> because it could
>> u >> Yes. >> Um collection from out of town. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, like as as soon as you get away from like Medicare, like your collection um gets worse and worse, so to speak, you know? >> Yeah. And that's what I Okay, thank you
for bringing it up because [laughter] things that typically of the calls we receive in town, you know, half of those are going to be Medicare. Um half of them are going to
be insurance. insurance will pay whatever insurance is going to pay. When we're making calls out of town, it may or may not be covered by Medicare. There's and and more likely a chance of there being no insurance whatsoever. So then there's no fee coming.
>> So it's it's why the collection is so much smaller than the billing. >> So what's the percent increase they're actually saying? because that doesn't actually >> they're Yeah, they're they're giving you two numbers, you know, a what they think is, you know, a low end and what they
think as a high end. Um, you know, I I would probably do the 1482, although I would probably just make it 1400 or 1500. >> 1500. Wait, >> so you you have your three columns. You
have the 2026 Medicare allowable. You have the current charge recommended 300% MFS. You didn't. That should have been in there. >> Oh my gosh. That isn't >> That should have been in there. >> Yeah, it was in there. >> It's in black and white%. >> Yeah, it's it's right here.
>> Yeah. I'm looking at it. Wait, so that's >> so they're essentially they're saying at least double it. >> Yes. which is more in line with what others because of insurance because your insurance would pay a portion of some percentage portion of what your charge
is. So if we're if if say insurance is going to pay 60% of what your charge is. If our charge is $700, they're going to pay 60% of $700. If they're going to pay 60% of 1400, you're getting more money in which is helping to offset some of the other costs that you're collecting. >> That's the why.
>> It's not going to change Medicare. >> It's not going to change Medicare. It's not going to change anything because we're not doing hard billing on anyone else. >> It's just going to be for insurance purposes. We're going to be able to collect some more >> and actually cover our a real cost. >> We're never going to cover a real cost.
We're just going to help offset. >> Okay. I understand >> that that that percentage has been pretty consistent like Yeah. >> for a long time, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. [clears throat] because because there are there are folks who are interested in trying to add additional folks to have a second ambulance at certain times and we've we've been
having this conversation with them that it's it's not a a monetary windfall for >> so what's the con to doing this the disadvantage to for residents if we were to increase the rate how does this hurt them >> what you're it they're there it doesn't really hurt them you will occasionally
have some residents that think that it's an actual help and may pay it. >> Pay the whole thing. That's the con. >> Okay. >> Not many. Having looked at the billing
and and collections, not many anymore. You used to, not many now. >> Okay. >> So maybe but we can mitigate that with better communication. >> Okay. >> I like wraps. I I 1500 would probably sound like the right number because it's
then off the top of your head. >> Yeah, I would I would just round off, you know, the like the 27 to 28. >> Yeah. >> You okay with that? >> You're basically suggesting we do an ordinance change? >> Yes. you you have in order to in order
for them to be able to start processing these charges, we would have to do an ordinance change because the ones that are listed in the current charge are currently what's in our ordinance. >> Okay. And how would we communicate to bar residents that they don't have to just outright pay the bill? >> We have to be careful about that, too,
because [snorts] Medicare Medicare indicates that you have to bill. You have you you have to try to collect your what's build. Okay. >> So we we will carefully work on that and focus on the groups um certain age
targeted groups. >> Okay. >> With discussions >> would be my recommendation >> little Tuesday lunch and learn to be okay. Explain >> 65. >> Yep. >> And Rotary and Lions and and and and you
can >> Yeah. >> Sure. Yes. >> And then that way you're you're approaching everyone and just kind of >> $1,500 makes it easier when we have to go do the breakfast of the bar. >> Yes. >> Let everybody know. >> So are you okay making those increases?
>> I am now. Yes. >> We'll have it on a January 26th agenda >> for an introduction. >> Yes. Thank you. Okay. Um, next item on the agenda is to talk about legal advertising.
So, you may or may not have remembered or heard that the with the disappearance of print newspapers um and and that type of thing. The um question about how we do our legal
advertisements um was decided at the state legislature last year. Uh it takes effect as of March 1st. Um so Diana's question to you is do we want to wait until March 1st to
transition or do we are allowed to do it as of now. So basically what hap the difference is um say for example we're going to do this ordinance at the end of this month. Um the introduction of that ordinance would need to a legal notice would need to be sent to the newspaper
and published. we instead would be putting that on our website on a specific spot that Diana has already created. Um, and then twice a month she need would need to publish in the newspaper. You know, our legal notifications are published on our website. Please go to our website. And
then as of March 1st, that changes just slightly because the state's going to have all of our websites supposedly uploaded onto at the state. And so we have to tell them that we can find our website through the state rather than finding it just through ourselves. >> And we only have to do that uh twice a
month notification for the entire year 2026 no matter what. >> And then it just becomes habit and you don't have to do that notification to the newspapers anymore in 2027. >> Uh how much do we pay for advertising
that? Last year we paid um just under uh about $99 under $5,000. >> That's not that bad. >> So 4,100 bucks. >> Did I say um >> or 4,900?
>> 4,100. >> Yeah, 4,100. >> And again, >> you're just 49. My my >> It depends on you know it it's cost of legal advertisement depends on how much you're advertising. when we advertise the budget, it's a much bigger >> Yeah. >> cost. Yeah.
>> You know, otherwise it could be small, you know, depending on what we're advertising. Um, you know, sometimes they're a couple hundred to a couple thousand >> and depending on whether we put it in the courier, how quick we're trying to publish something. So whether we're putting it in the courier or we're
putting it in retrospect, >> I think I would prefer to keep it for the sake of >> switch >> and switch in March for the sake of change management and then we can use the next two three um notifications to
prepare people to basically not have the advertisement anymore >> if we don't want to keep advertising because it's not a mandate that we don't advertise anymore in the papers is it? >> I think it is. I think it is really that's the way it comes across in the in the uh local finance and yeah
>> it's real it's really murky. So for for January and February of this year it's the same as always still publishing the paper you're still doing normal notices etc. In addition to the normal publishing twice a month, whether it's the 1st and 15th, 15th and 30th, just
twice a month in one of the two official newspapers, there has to be a notice that says beginning March. It's also available on the website. Okay? And that has to that twice a month has to continue for all of 26. So it's 24 times
we're going to have to publish. And then beginning March 1st is where it gets murky. The state has to create and they've yet to do it yet. The state has to create this link to our websites and it's supposed to be there March 1st and beginning March 1st that publications are going to say come to the Burough
Badfield website and there and also there will be some link this yet to be created. >> They actually have the link but it there's nothing there yet but there's nothing there. >> Yeah. Also, it's it says after March 1st, 2026, whenever a public entity is required by law or by order or rule of
court to publish or advertise a legal notice, the public entity shall make the complete text of the legal notice publicly accessible on its official internet website free of charge. The website publication requirement will supersede the current newspaper publication of legal notices, including any requirements to publish in a
newspaper with statewide circulation. >> So, you have to put on a website. >> Yeah, you have to put it in a website. That's the mandate. Should we still put it in the paper? I mean that's my argument is yeah >> people are going to get used to not looking for him in the newspapers. >> Well no but that's my problem. So my
problem is don't get used to not looking in the newspapers. I don't know how many people I have said hey man you're in the retrospect pay your freaking taxes you know and and the embarrassment of not winding up in the paper that everybody's has a better chance of seeing.
Unfortunately, they regulate what what our legal requirements are. >> And specifically for that public notice, it is also posted. It has to be posted on the doors. There's five places that it has to be posted >> in paper and that continues.
>> That's the tax. >> That's Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> That will still be out there for people to see. >> I just think about the one time that I I missed CMJ and somebody busted my balls and, you
know, just put a highlight through the paper and then put it under my door. Uh, but it was very effective. But I said, "Oh, you forgot CCM day." Listen, I'm just going to put on a very uh I'll be real honest with you two. >> I think newspapers are important. So,
and it doesn't break our ass to keep advertising in the paper to then have people cover us because that goes away. That's not a good thing. >> That's just my That's my thing. So that's why I'm asking. I think we follow whatever we legally have to do, but that
doesn't change the fact that I think we should be advertising in the papers if for no other reason to keep the papers going. >> And I do think that there is a population that still relies heavily on that form of information. So like
for the sake of change management, I think we should keep it in there and slowly transition people into the online world. >> Yeah. If it's not useful anymore, that's a different animal altogether, those, you know, those ads. But I that I think that's a lot longer than a than the
2026. >> Yeah, I think I agree with this one. Okay. What do you think? >> I'm fine with continuing it. >> So, beginning March 1st, even though there's no longer a legal requirement to publish a paper, your desire to continue publishing it.
Okay. But just as a clarification, compliance is on the website. Yes. >> Not when it's published in the newspap. >> That's exactly right. Yeah. >> Which makes easier for special meetings and stuff like that for >> the only thing we have to check is make sure that doesn't compound the problem
instead because we are still putting it in the newspaper. It's >> the latter too. got to make sure >> y >> say for example a bond ordinance >> right >> we're putting it on the website the next day >> that's publication if we're putting it
in a newspaper it's not until Friday >> and the date it becomes effective >> well and that's our muscle memory too >> the hearing so >> what we can do is if we are going to be keeping it in the newspaper we can follow that timeline with posting on the
website I don't I'd have to look can see. >> Yeah, I'm sure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We post in the public, we post in a weekly publication. If the habit is you post on Fridays any announcement or anything on the line, then that becomes your SOP.
>> Yeah. Just takes away some of the benefit of only having to publish it on the >> Oh, sure. I just think it's a rotten decision. So, >> and and it's developing to be honest with you. I mean, I don't know that somebody from Trent is going to come down and say you have an infraction because statewide everybody every
municipality I'm in. Not our newspaper that went digital. >> Well, they did too, but not the full length. >> Yeah. Right. Well, as long as they're still printed, there's no print edition for that paper. I mean, Christ, even the Catholic starter, I still have the paper. It still comes in the still comes
in the mail. There are still changes that will be required on the side of of the retrospective because you can't put them behind um pay a cost for people to see them on online.
They have to to be able to to look at the the the advertisements without having to pay to receive the online paper. >> That's a requirement. We could ask them if they're not in compliance. I did also send that to
so they >> Okay. >> Okay. Next on the agenda is to talk about HPC applications. Um, the planning board solicister and I were having conversations through the fall of
last year trying to figure out how um how we could correct the fees that were charged for HPC because HPC is a is a two board process has to go to HPC and it has to go to planning board and the fees we have been collecting are only
the fees that cover the HBC portion and not planning for portion. So we were having conversations as to how do we regroup that and and do we charge more? Do we then charge the applicants for the planning board process? You know, what
do we do? And so we figured to instead of recreating the wheel, let's reach out to some other communities. And considering we're the second ordinance in the state and Kate May is the first, we went to Kate May. Kate May and some of the other ones um actually handle it
differently. They handle HPC to be the uh sole board for certificate of compliance um except for when it is a matter that goes in front of planning or zoning
board for a site review or um variances or something like that. then though that is the only time HPC is allowed to make input on those types of like sideyard setback and and things of
that nature and then it is solely advisory to those two boards. So we were talking about that um and said okay if we were to make ours but the only thing we would want to do is because there are occasions where our HPC has made one decision and planning
board has made another that we would want to be able to appeal that to planning board and I say planning board because they're the ones that primarily have the experience of dealing with HBC applications since they are the final say currently. We are still working on
uh that section because and this is just early draft of how we would change our uh ordinance to comply. We also have some we got to change the names of some people in here because who actually does the work things like that. Um but this
in essence would what's what was provided to you switch that so that our board would be the one and only board for certificates of compliance for the historic district. So materials that are used um repair maintenance on the
buildings anything that would come in front of them for that would no longer have to go to to planning board. It would solely be decided at HPC. >> But if you don't agree with the decision of HBC, then you go to planning board, but you pay for that. >> Correct. >> That's how I read it. I
>> correct. The only thing we're working on right now is is what we could what I could find um in the other ordinances it goes to zoning board on appeal. So, we're trying to figure out if that's a requirement that it has to go to zoning board or if we
can pick which board it goes to. So, because we would prefer it to go to planning board only because they have the more experience >> of the HBC >> and it's not a variance at that point, right? And so, it doesn't make sense to go to zone. >> Yeah. The only thing we can think of is
is because it was the zoning code. >> Oh, I Well, >> well, how does Kate May do it? Does it go to planning? >> No, it goes to zoning. >> Oh, well, that doesn't make any sense. Yeah. My brain. Well, it wouldn't hadn't code though if the property is they're they're replacing with materials, but
the property is existing non-conform. >> If it's not conforming, but if it's a if it's a conforming, >> this so we would have to change the ordinance to make HPC a approval board, not an advisory board. >> Yes, that's what's that's what's in
here. We're talking about appeal. >> If you're a decision, >> appeal should go to planning. I don't know why we go to zoning, >> right? If it's something that requires a variance, then it would go to it would go to zoning for the variant, it would
actually go to two different boards. If there's if they're doing work on the property and a variance, it would go to HBC for the certificate of occupancy or certificates of appropriateness. And then it would go to zoning for the zoning issue. They would pay two different fees. one the current, you
know, current fee for for HPC and the current fee for zoning board. They would get a chance to chime in on the zoning application, but that would only be advisory. >> Okay. >> Yeah, that mean
I hear what you're saying, right? So if you have like a use variance >> right >> and >> that's noted but >> changing material or if you if you got the use variance to say conver convert from commercial to residential >> and you have a window issue.
>> Yeah. >> And you don't like what HPC said then you go to planning and say >> it would have to go to planning anyway. >> It would have to go any >> well no well the use variant I'm saying but that's the difference. the use would be separate from like the material discussion or the you know whatever
>> let's say you have a shed in your backyard y and you want to move it >> hypothetically >> hypothetically let's just say you have a shed in your backyard and you want to move it from one corner of your backyard to another corner of your backyard what would what would that process be under this >> it could it could just be >> administrative review
>> yeah it could it could just be administrative review doesn't even get to a certificate of appropriateness because if it's if it's pre-existing you're okay with the bulk standards you You don't need a variance. You're just changing location, >> right? You meet all the >> You're not changing your coverage or >> You're not changing your coverage. You meet all the step back requirements.
>> As long as you're under in your coverage. >> As long as you're under your coverage. Yeah. As long as you're under your coverage. >> You're not doing anything to increase your coverage. >> Then then potentially, as Sharon said, it could just be administrative and you don't go to any board >> and you Okay. >> Well, you have to submit an application to the application >> to the historical. You have to submit
something so that the the >> title um historic preservation >> consult >> consultant >> reviews it >> and if she signs off saying yes it's just an administrative review and this complies with everything else. Okay. >> But that's but that's scenario one. to
Frank scenario if you're if you're over impervious >> and and you're relocating then if witness then you do have to go to HPC number one and >> go to a board >> and go to a probably zoning board because your bulk variant
>> pre-existing non-conform >> pre-existing non-conform even if you're over let's say it it allows 55 you're at 58 moving it uh you know you had a stone patio and you had a concrete slab in front you're going to make that so we're going to go from 58 57. You're making it less bad, a little bit better, but
you're still over. Then you're going to zoning for bulk HPC and bulk. I mean, it is >> convoluted. Just so you know, hypo, not hypothetically, before I was commissioner, I moved my shed on my property and I was under, so it was just administrative. We just came in, they
said, "Okay, you can move it." And we moved it. >> I'll give you another hypothetical. What if you're trying to put solar panels on your roof? Totally hypothetical. How would that work out? >> Depends on where you are in town. If you're in the historic district, it has to go to HPC. >> I don't know. >> That's probably it.
>> It's probably just >> Yeah. >> If we change the >> No. Well, yeah. If we change it as currently constituted, it's HPC now and you have to go to planning board >> under the current ordinance just to reaffirm it. But the proposal would be you go to HPC only
>> and then you're done. Unless APC that's HPC told you to know then if you don't like that answer then you app you pay >> for the planning board >> the planning board to review your application. >> Okay. So but that's a more annoying process though isn't it? It is. But what
but what this does do is a lot of people get um trying to think of the right word are a little intimidated by our current process having to go in front of two boards. >> It's bad enough coming in front of one
board but then when they have to come back in front of planning which in the majority of the cases is just reaffirming what has been approved. >> Yeah. the majority of ACPC applications that still have to go in front of planning right now, planning board doesn't do anything with it. So, >> but but the solicitor does because the
solicitor has to rewrite it. That's that's the whole point that we're trying to say. >> So, having been on planning board for a while uh in every single case I can think of. If it was approved by HBC, it's approved by planning board usually unanimously.
>> Yep. an occasional one maybe dislikes it but it it's usually we're not going to >> yeah we're not going to veto what >> yeah the thornier one is the reverse where HPC says no does not grant a certificate of appropriateness then it comes in front of planning and then
planning is not bound by HPC's decision in essence it's an appeal >> and it could >> we wave the fee then like if you're >> but that's the problem the the fee is causing issues for us right now. The general taxpayers are covering all >> right. You have you have a solicitor
doing work and the burrow is paying for it and it should be borne by the applicant. Every land every land use board that we have, planning board, zoning board, when an applicant comes to board, they they pay an escrow so that they pay those fees. That's municipal land use fault. To Sharon's point, the way it's set up right now, that cost of
the solicitor doing that review, the taxpayers of Hadenfield are paying for it and it should be the applicant >> regardless of what the decision was regardless. >> Right. >> Yeah. So, so this corrects that little hiccup in the system more consistent with state law that the applicant bears the costs. That's that's what state law
is. That's why they post escorts or we post escort I should say but those of us who have done this >> and honestly in the 20 almost 22 years that I've been here the only there's only probably been three times that planning board maybe four that
planning board has overridden HPC and all of them except for maybe one were regarding windows >> which is what we're going to be addressing in the master plan in [clears throat] 27 Seven >> potentially. >> Well, because one of the things on the
list is windows were specifically called out in the master. >> That's glazing. >> Glazing. Glazing. That's >> glazing is different than say >> glazing is is is actually like it's frontage. It's like >> how much you know.
>> I'm very good at glazing. >> Yeah. >> Great in the walls. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Of course. Well, and a widow's piece that I walk on to actually do the glazing. So, I'm not I'm not >> there's no action to take. >> There's no action to take. What I'm telling you is this is I want to make
sure you guys are okay with the idea before we go further. The next step is I'm sending this to HPC to get their input on it >> and then um we'll we'll come up with final language for you guys in February to hash through >> to amend the ordinance
>> to the actual ordinance. >> Are you also sharing this with um planning board? >> It will go to planning board. Yes, it automatically goes to planning board. um >> because it's an ordinance review. >> Yeah, it's an ordinance review. So, they automatically get to review it.
>> So, I have thoughts, but let me I'll >> think about them and then just get in touch with me and we can go over some of the stuff. >> I'll collect my thoughts and I'll get back to you. >> Yeah, >> property owner, too. It sucks, but yeah, what it makes sense. Yeah, >> it makes sense. So, this is one of those the needs of the many outweigh the needs
of me kind of thing. Yeah, I mean it's it's too believe it or not it would probably cut down on planning board's workload because there's oh there's a number of applications that really don't have to go to planning board. So it would lessen planning board's docket >> and I think it it would cor create it
would correct uh an inequity right now where the planning board solicitor is being paid for all the town and it really should be paid for by the applicant. >> Yeah. I mean it's two little things but that's >> and this is why I think taken seriously and we have as we did a round of interviews for all the placements on all
the boards. These boards aren't rubber stamp hey put your friends on kind of thing. These are people who are really thoughtful and that's why we interview them and we put the appropriate people on the appropriate boards because so that we don't get these types of issues that we see happen in other towns and
have happened here in the past. >> Yeah. No, I I fully agree with that. I just think that HBC's um application of its rules is really rigid >> and what I don't want to do is discourage so they I gave the example of the solar panels. What I wouldn't want
to do is discourage people from making environmentally but is this for their properties? Like if someone's like, "Hey, I want to put on a second floor and expand my, >> you know, I think I don't think this would do that because in actuality >> as as the system is currently set up
right now, it could be it could be discouraging because now an individual resident homeowner has to go to two boards using the solar panel, right? We've got to go to HBC, you've got to go to you've got to go to planning board." >> Yeah. >> If if if this is one of the two changes you all decide to adopt, that would
reduce that just to one. So it it could be a little bit >> less intensive. >> It would make Yes. It would make some people very happy because it is again it's one of those things they're having to pay an attorney sometimes to come or pay their professionals to come for something that's pretty much going to be
rubber stamped. >> Yeah. >> So >> not Yeah. Not the solar example. Um and I know because we got a recent application. I mean there's a whole statewide federal it's green energy. I mean, we went through the entire >> free energy as long as it's not on the
street side roof flow. >> And if you're unfortunately have a property that doesn't conform to getting the sun on that roof, hey, maybe you can't do solar because you're living in a star property. >> Very detailed analysis. I know >> that's something if we address that very specific issue that we can look at
making changes to the ordinance that specific >> when we talk about it. >> Yeah. And that's that's a very different thing. This is general applications as a whole because we looked at potentially doing some some solar changes and held off for a while. So, we can look at doing that.
>> I mean, I'm using solar as an example, but like if someone's trying to add like a fourcar garage onto their property, like yeah, okay, this makes a lot of sense. Like, you should absolutely >> in that situation, they're going to end up in front of both boards anyway, right? And that way, we're going to get >> the fee for both. But if you're trying
to make changes to your home to make it more environmentally friendly, more sustainable, like I don't want to discourage that kind of behavior. So that would be the only like suggestion I make for that. >> And that's why I said about master plan because there's a whole section in uh sustainability in the master plan that
even takes its historic district into account. >> Yeah. Windows windows play into it. Like >> regardless if you feel if it's settled science, state of New Jersey feels settled science. Climate change is real. >> Oh, say that out loud. I'm joking. I'm joking. >> I've been on board for a while. >> I'm joking. But it doesn't matter how we
feel about this. The state of New Jersey calls it seven signs. Probably think it would be months. >> So outside of this, I I've talked about this for like >> probably eight years now from when I was on the zoning board and the planning board and commissioner.
um existing non-conforming for driveways, decks, fences, light for like I don't see any reason why they should have to go through a zoning board. That should be an administrative approval of someone going out and saying, "There's
my old crappy wooden deck. I'm going to replace it with the same exact thing, different materials, whatever the case, it's going to be same footprint, >> concrete walkways, driveways on >> those things that we'll address with Penoni." >> Yeah. in the changes we're talking about. They
>> I saw the first draft of the proposal. I'm just waiting for the second the final version of the proposal and we'll address that in the cloud. >> And that's good to you keep pointing out to us the difference between what we're trying to solve >> procedurally now and then administrative
reviews and the guidelines for review. We have a lot of control over that >> eventually, you know, when we get to it because there's only so many hours in the day. But I actually I think you would probably get more revenue getting the administrative application because people say >> this finally I can do my driveway. I
want to do my driveway and like I just don't feel like going before a board so I just keep putting it on. >> I agree with we've had phone calls too where it's not only the going before a board but cost of the escrow that you have to post to your point it's I'm replacing like with like. Yeah. I'm not
like it's the same footprint. Yep. for the >> we do that when we do road work. If you had concrete, you get concrete. You have that orange stuff, you get the orange stuff. If it's a brick, you pull up the bricks and we put the bricks back down. It's like >> it's slate, you get sleep. It's like,
you know, granite. You get gran. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. Exactly. We do like for like as a matter of course for ourselves and we don't have to go in front of >> Yeah, you're right. >> That makes sense. >> Yep. >> Great. >> Great. So, any other comments? When
you've had a chance to review it, get back to me. Like I said, um it's going out to HPC tomorrow. I just wanted to make sure you guys were on board with it first um to get their input. I have a feeling they will be very happy. Um but, you know, and again, there's some
things as we go through making changes, more general changes to the ordinance that we may want to look at in there. Um and maybe with the windows. Um, but that's different pot of worms. Um, so it'll go to them. Uh, we'll get their
input and we'll come back to you in February with something that's finalized for changes. Anything else on that? >> Okay. So, the next thing is to just give you a brief update on the round four documents the state came out with. Um
there's new formats for some of the the fourth round documents with the way the ordinance is supposed to be written and some of the language that needs to be included in for rules and regulations. Um and so there is a group of planners that are handling most of the state with
this and they were trying to come up with a firm um template for everyone to use. Um I was on the phone with Mary Beth last week and they were working on all of our documents. there's just a little bit of a time crunch. Um what they are asking
is they're not 100% sure they need to do it right now, but in the off chance that they won't have everything ready because they they have to work off the planning board date to have the plan ready and the plan has to be published x number of days in advance of the planning board
hearing. Um if we don't make the 26th that is yeah the 26th um if we introduce in February go to the March planning board meeting but then we would need to adopt at the
work session and Dave and I were talking what we could do is is have a do a a sunshine notice to hold a public meeting and that with the work session following immediately after um course. >> Yeah. So, you're not doing the action at the work session, but you're holding a
special meeting before the work session to um finalize the documents if that's your >> and that's to meet that's to meet >> it's it's to meet the March 15th deadline solely. >> I would prefer that just because I'm going to be in California January 21st
to 28th. The only reason I was going to attend that meeting remotely is because of that. Everything else I think is just kind of >> boilerplate stuff. So, >> so it works out for yours. Yeah, >> that would work out better for me. >> Okay. Are you guys okay with that? All right, then I'll tell I'll give her a call tomorrow and tell her we'll push the dates
>> and I won't be at most likely won't be at 20. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Unless there's something >> I don't >> based upon the agenda. I don't see anything. >> No, I don't see anything. >> And that gives us opportunity tonight if we go into close to talk about specific requests >> that have been made. >> That have been made.
>> Correct. Okay. Um, next is to update on 2026 activities. Do you want to put it up? >> So, Joanna has worked on a we have a website that is solely for Hadenfield
2026 it's called. This is for um any and all activities that either the burrow PSH or organizations in town are putting on. That's not it. [laughter] Um that uh have anything to do with the
250th celebration [laughter] of >> Yep. >> Look at he went right to the heart. He was going to >> on the other side of the heart. Jason the green arrow. Yep. >> [snorts]
>> Okay. Um, so when you come to the homepage, you're going to have some pretty pictures and Joanna will add those as we have events throughout the year. The top what you have is home events and additional information. I believe if you
go to the events, each one that we know of so far has been put up there. There will be more coming. We do have a long list of of ideas that we are working on with some other organizations and hope to have fleshed out within the next month um to finalize and put up there.
Um we came we were talking with Michael about a fall harvest idea that we have for September that I think will be really cool that'll tie things in um to 1776. And um
we had our little portrait day event. Did you notice the walls are very naked? >> The walls are very naked right now. Um there's the video. We are working with the library because right now she has >> a little bit >> right now she has a link to the library
page which is a little difficult because if you go to the library page it's all of the different things they're talking about. It's a little lost down there. So Eric uh Eric and his staff are looking to transfer those or provide us copies with the files. What? But the library
worked up so that each of those portraits actually Jason, do you want to go down to the library link? You click there and it's down ways. As you can see here, it's it's so we're trying to get the actual
um files so we can just put it directly on our website. But once she gets he keeps going down a little bit further. Keep going. Keep going. all the things you see the library offers. So like you can look up your property and get pictures from the tax pictures and all that stuff.
>> There we go. So if you click on one of those. >> Hello, I'm John Sto. I was a very wealthy land. We donated land and helped bring what is now Princeton University. I was born in the Stockton family home now known as Morphin in the Stony Brook neighborhood of Princeton. >> I grew up in a slave holding family and
later updated slave people at Morphin. That's >> No, do the other one because that was that was cool. Yeah, that hysterical. >> Hello, I am John Hart, a sign of the Declaration of Independence. On November 7th, 1778, I returned to Hopewell from
the Assembly in Trenton. [clears throat] Two days later, I was too ill to grab kidney stones to return. I continued to suffer from painful affliction for more than 6 months until my death on May 11th, 1779 at age 65. I am buried at the
old school Baptist meeting house. >> That's diabolical. >> Yeah, I know. Die kidney stone and have to suffer for six months. That is diabolical. >> Anyway, >> I was talking about the AI, but >> it's so it's kind of cool. So, if you go
back to ours >> back >> anyway, >> wait, I do have some questions. I mean I'm assuming that the intent of this website is tourism, right? Like it's mostly for tourists. >> It's tourism and also there's going to be some events. So for example, in
conjunction with the Indian king tavern, we are going to teach games that they would play back in the 17. >> So you know wis couple of others um and so you'll be able to sign up for the events >> through here.
>> Great. Is there a way to for example I'm thinking like if I'm coming into Philly from wherever and I want to come down to Hadenfield and I want to look up >> it's on the website. >> No like his I want to come to Had or I'm looking for an event that weekend that
has something to do with art and history like do I have a way to search on the website for like categories? >> This is a little bit sight but >> super simple. >> Yeah. All right. I don't know if we'll have time to visit, but >> I don't think we're going to have that. I'll put the event up. They'll see it.
>> They'll see, but it's going to be in sequence. >> Yeah. It's not like it's as much as we would love to. Okay. It's not like there's going to be hundreds of events every month. >> I don't know. I saw AI you guys like >> No, but once you put your calendar entries, which I'll work them through on that. Uh then they could go into the Cam
County cultural things to do this weekend website, you know, or things to do this summer, things to, you know, they >> there's a format that we could just feed them. So, it's an XML file. We can just create an XML file. And then it just feeds it into their system >> and and Wix can do that.
>> So, they'll figure out all of that. >> Good. >> Um, so, you know, so as I said, um, we're going to send you out a list of some of the things we're doing. She's got the resources up there. >> As right now, we have three buttons on resources. >> And then what I was telling you about,
which I thought you were going with, was visit. >> Okay. You had to get your visitors pack up and another late downtown field is but with tape too. >> Yeah. And maybe this is not the place
that will happen, right? Like if you're new to the area and you're just here for a short amount of time, you're not going to find this website first. You're going to find the county website first, probably. >> Well, you're probably going to find the downtown Paddenfield advertise >> first. That takes it to their website.
because they spend the money to bring We're not in the business of tourism. They are in the business of tourism >> except we are looking at spending a little bit of money this year. We're looking at at um creating some pamphlets that we're going to put out on trying to get into the rest areas on 295 and the
turnpike and the parkway. >> Um also into the visitor center over by Philadelphia. >> Um we're also looking at potentially buying a space in the visitor center in Philadelphia to list our events. There you go. >> What about Big Belly? Because I mean we looked at Big Belly costs in
Philadelphia. They're um rather expensive. >> Oh, because I I know there's a realer in town that advertising here and in Philadelphia on the trash cans. I thought it was one big system. >> No, no. Our trash cans are far cheaper than they're >> Oh, I see. >> Um we did get a price for that. We are also looking at pricing to for a very
short period of time to maybe put something up on on a billboard just to say until 2026. >> But we advertise but downtown Hfield advertises on Paco. Yeah, they advertise. They advertise Philly and then the visitor guide and like all that stuff. So, >> yeah. So, I mean, it's kind of one of those things. We're we're pushing this
website out solely for this year and then once this year is done, it will disappear. >> Um, >> unless it's extremely successful. >> Well, could you open for one second because I did want to point out something for the public is uh in events.
It is July 3rd. So, we'll be celebrating uh the the Fourth of July holiday on the federal holiday. >> Yes. >> Uh because the 250 So, it's Friday, July 3rd. This is something that most of the towns in the in the council of mayors
had talked about celebrating on the 3 to allow those that would like to celebrate our local history in Hadenfield on the third and then national history in Philadelphia, the birthplace of democracy eight miles away. So we're not competing with them uh because they are
spending a whole lot of money on the 4th of July. Let our focus our research is on the 3rd of July. >> Yeah. >> And all the towns around are contemplating or have already announced it. >> But the real question is are we going to have fireworks? >> No, we're having a drone show. >> We're having a drone show.
>> Having a drone show happening? [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Right here. >> Yeah, we're having a drone show. >> Oh, yes. It's right there. >> Yep. >> We're having a drone show instead of fireworks. >> Wonderful. are safer. >> Cool. >> So, that is we wanted to bring you up um
and the fire. >> Yeah, that's going to go live tomorrow and we'll start pushing stuff out. >> Um also, um we believe it would be really great if you guys wore costumes on on February 14th when you're doing your Val renewals. >> Done. >> Done.
>> Saturday. >> Yeah. By the way, it's Saturday. >> I thought the 14th was Sunday. >> No, Saturday. >> Oh, Saturday. >> We're gonna get them. We're We are She's already working with a costume place, too. Not your golfer one. That's for >> That's for the meeting. That's for the
meeting. >> Hesitate. You're like done. >> I mean, if it's cute, don't put me in like a woman's gown. >> Pretty. >> Of course. [laughter] >> I already Yeah, we Yes, we're working on it. We're working on it. We have another idea. >> She'll be pretty. >> Yes, we have another idea for September
to hold the meeting. outfits, as I think I stated before, outfits for the for the meeting. Although with that, we're kind of also coming up with like a storyline. So, we may use need some of your time beforehand. Frank wants to be a golfer. Um [laughter] Dave may end up being the tavern over
owner of the Indian king, but we we're kind of working up this little like precursor video to make, you know, leading up to the up to the >> Oh, no. >> Yeah. So, anyway, fun thing. He could be a smither. >> Not the one that got killed by his own bris on Hopkins Pond.
>> He got turned into Quaker Oats. >> So soft. >> That is a good dad joke. >> All right. Anything else on uh the 250th? >> If we can't have fun, what can we? >> That's true. >> Okay, that's great.
>> Nothing else? >> No, nothing else. >> Okay. It's fun. Um any ideas please go to Joanna and uh we'll include them in our monthly discussions on these activities or more frequent. Uh we actually met with Maria
today for our kickoff meeting for the craft fair. Uh, and that's going to have a 250th theme. Um, >> June 11th and 12th. >> And the craft fair as the prayer fair is a burrow event, not a
partnership for >> correct. The crafts festival is a burrow event. >> Correct. Of course. Yes, that's right. I >> Yep. >> Um, >> that's why if you if you don't hear it come up at the partnership, it's because it's not a partnership. >> That's right. Just lost the thing. Um,
>> July 112. Yes. >> Yeah. No. >> Can I ask about the summer uh burough summer camp? It >> it is solely right now a a survey out getting public opinion on what they're interested in to see if we can put one together
>> for this summer. >> Potentially this summer. >> All right. >> A small >> a small one this summer potentially to be expanded in future years. We're looking just to get back into that type of thing now that we have a recreation. >> I've had a few questions about it. All right. But it Okay,
>> fill out the survey, please. [laughter] >> You're the demographic. >> I am the Can I saw that? I jumped. I was like, "Yeah, that's great." >> Yeah, we've had a lot of responses. >> We have. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Okay. >> Okay. So, the next item on the agenda would be to talk about the January 26th
agenda. Most of these resolutions on the back side of this are will be removed because they are not necessarily >> sure. >> Yeah. Things we're we're doing again or at least not at this time. >> And those are your standards that we always did. >> The first ones are the standards. Um
what we talked about uh there. Yeah. We sparing it also. No, that might not have been taken off from last year. Yeah, >> I thought I had but yeah >> no I did not. [laughter]
>> Then the auxiliary were doing different. >> Yeah, we're going to go back to the old way of doing it at their meeting. >> Yep. >> Oh, okay. >> Which was fantastic by the way, Frank doing the officer dedications for the fire. >> Yeah. Yeah, that was a nice event at their place. That's that's their home.
>> Yeah. So 12, 13, and 14 will be coming off. Uh 15th look, >> just to point out for you too, uh there is an event before our March I mean our our agenda meet our action meeting. Uh
oh yes >> about Black History Month. >> Yeah. Okay. >> If if you have time and you and you can and you can make it. >> Yeah. It's part of >> invitations. The HRC had been involved, didn't
>> Is Adrian involved? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Her event. >> Yes, it's her event. >> And then also these are She dropped these off to me earlier tonight. Um that's kind of a summary of what they did last year.
It's just, you know, with the various pages included. So, one of the things you will see actually this event being added to our 2026 because one of the folks that is going to be talking at this event will
be talking about the um how the black soldiers were important in the uh 1776 revolution. >> Wait, are you not doing the mayor's health and loans left? >> That hasn't been discussed. That's those
are on from last year mean from previous years. Okay. So they have not been discussed yet. So they're just being filled on until they can be discussed at the future. >> Okay. >> They just took my temperature. >> Just taking them off right now. >> Well, because it was a it was it was a
an initiative of Governor Murphy. >> And is that true? >> So do right. They wanted to he encouraged the mayors to promote health and wellness at the local level. It was one of his initiatives. We're waiting to see what Governor Cheryl will come out with in terms of what their goals are.
You know, in in my world, you you you know, you align your strategy to strategy as it goes forward. So, we try to align our strategy when it benefits us to our county strategy. And then the county, we were just we just talked
about that in our county mayor's meeting this afternoon to see what is coming from the state to align our things. That was in community building and block grants, but every meeting is going to have a discussion to see what the Cheryl administration's going to come out with in terms of their community goals
[clears throat] and then we can align to those community goals. Health and wellness festival like that is something that >> is that like quarterly? >> It's quarterly. Well, the mayor the Cammy County Mayor's Association has monthly uh the the that those state alignment meetings a
quarter month was today. >> Okay, that's good. [snorts] >> The and it happened after work. >> Good. >> Okay, moving on from the agenda. >> Um PFH update, you have an updated
calendar. We met with Michael last week. Um there's some new ideas coming coming uh in the future. Um he is looking at doing a a spring stroll and actually a fall stroll, September stroll. Um something that kind of gets
them moving from place to place and enjoying the outside weather. >> I love alliteration. So September stroll sounds good. It's kind of just like saying, you know, pensions I comply. You know, these are things that are easy to remember. >> Um, and instead of because October is
rather busy uh between >> PFH events, our events and other outside activities. They are looking to switch Hattie to Hattie's half birthday and have it in April. >> Um, they do want to do something again.
They did they did have uh the kids did enjoy hunting for the eggs and things like that. >> It's a it makes sense to do it during a school year during an activity window. Uh you know only Jesus was born on December 25th but had could have been
born anytime. Right. But >> yes he was born in September. >> Who's Jesus? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No. >> Anyway, >> tell you about that later. Anyway, >> I know when he was baptized yesterday, >> one of the new things
>> was out the bands. >> One of the new things that we're looking uh to do is football Fridays. Um this is for this is for the soccer. >> Uh we would be using the t the popup
screen that we have and streaming on Fridays, >> Cups, >> the World Cups >> in Mechanic Lot, >> closing Mechanic Street. I I I missed that. >> That's awesome. >> Yeah, that's gonna be fun. >> We're still working on all the variables. We're still working on when
it is. One of the problems is one of the Fridays they are 3 pm games and then a 9:00 p.m. game. So, we're kind of trying to make it also familyfriendly with some of the things that that he's looking to do, but we have to kind of >> Well, now that everybody knows that
that's what our intention is, maybe an indoor location for that one might step up. There's there's other places, you know, like the Masonic Temple. They could hold it indoor during the day if we needed to. >> Well, no, it's I'm not worried about daytime. It's more
it's more there's nothing like when the 3pm one ends and we have period of time before the nine one and the nine is a little late. >> Oh. Oh, I see. >> So, it's like and so what we talked about was maybe doing the 3pm one as a family event and then doing the nine for
like adults. Mhm. >> So, >> kind of looking along that line. Um, >> and you said mechanic lot parking. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, we're we're looking at that there. You know, was we're looking at a number of things related around that.
>> We're getting better at being able to plan something. It's the kind of block you know besides the we got Super Bowl, there was a rally in the alley and then there was that breastfest block party. I mean, it it this is something that it it's not a big pain in the rear to the businesses. uh they seem to have
>> you talk to but >> depends on who you talk to. Uh but I think logistically it kind of works and uh it's a good thing. >> We're working on it. Um the skirmish I will tell you we are looking to as a
one-time thing make that much bigger with our participation. Uh we have a we have a monthly meeting moving forward but we'll be meeting Thursday I believe it or tomorrow I forget one of the two uh with the group. um and supplementing
what they do. Um so at the PFH meeting at the end of this month, we're going to be talking to the board. Um we kind of want to get the we want to get the businesses tie in for events like that when we have events. So we're looking to purchase hats um both guys and girls
hats and maybe aprons and stuff that the staff can wear >> so that I kind of get that feel. We're going to talk about potentially waving some outdoor uh requirements so that maybe they can add some things to the outside to kind of give it that historic
feel throughout this year just to kind of you know like wreath different wreaths for certain times of the year, things like that. Um things that they can do to decorate their stores to kind of give that feel kind of go trying to go with the Williamsburg feel as best we can through this year while we're
celebrating this event. um >> who's hanging to smoked meats and ducks outside their window. That'd be cool. >> Well, and and so but we one of some of the stuff that we talked about with the skirmish is bringing in extra reenactors to have in the downtown spread
throughout the downtown and they're going to be trying to conscript people to sign up for either side and they'll take you over to a table and with the nice quill pen sign off on your name on a document saying that you're going to fight for one or the other. We got
permission from the sculptor to to dress Hattie for the day. [laughter] >> Um >> hopefully a colonial guard, >> of course. Um we are going to um >> she'll be she'll be pretty. >> Yeah, he he'll be pretty. We're going to
keep him a he for the day. Um we uh are working with Michelle to bring in um different uh trades people to have spread throughout the downtown kind of showing off their trade. Maybe bringing in a toy maker and having them like have a table
in front of one of the toy stores. >> Smither >> that where it may be a little hard >> blacksmiths there other types of smiths. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Potentially. Um we're looking at you know there was a paper maker you know having in front of paper trail. um chocoliers bringing them in um
just different kinds of folks to bring in and spread them out so that as you know you have all the activities that are going down here. We're not closing anything down there but this is all mingling in on the sidewalks um and the stores. >> What did Tanner do? >> Yeah,
>> there's a lot of leather work of Tanner. >> So looking to see as we can to to for that one day to just kind of really expand and make it a big event. >> That's so exciting. Um the new one of the other new ideas two two other new ideas one sticking with so September uh
we're looking to do with harvest week um like a fall restaurant week but we're looking at one of those nights like Wednesday or Thursday of that week to do a ticketed event in the in the highway. We would be working with the restaurants
downtown to make each one would make a specific type of meal from back in 1700s from some of the recipes and stuff and you get a table. You know, you buy a ticket for this event and you know it would come with food and beverage and
you get the food for for the evening on tables in Kings Highway. >> Love it. dinner and eong I was just gonna say dinner on >> not quite but yes >> but it's along that it's along that idea
but with a with a theme. So one of the cool >> one of the other things that we're working with is the reenactors because they're local um they are willing to come to various events throughout the year in their garb and kind of just carry on as if it's normal day you know
a normal day for them. So, like we would have a table of them or have them interacting with the folks at, you know, at the tables. Um, we're hoping to be able to they they were talking about bringing people in for the ice sculpture and that event coming up. Um, so just
you would see them periodically through the year. Um, so we're kind of hoping we don't wear them out, but um >> Oh, and feedback to PFA, Mrs. Claus for the win. Speaking of interactive reenactors, holy smokes, man, she awesome,
>> right? I'll let them know. >> Well, is there Yeah. Is there a way to incentivize then like free parking and like certain percent off for restaurants or something like that? Even if we have to subsidize it, like just to kind of have them keep coming back. And you know,
>> we'll talk to them. We have, like I said, we have a meeting, I believe it's tomorrow, not Thursday. We have a meeting this week to to we're we're having periodic meetings to just kind of catch up on what we need, where we need it, and filling in everything. Um, but we'll talk to him about that, see what the what the health is. >> For July 3rd, are we doing a hot dog
eating contest again? >> We don't do that. >> Well, right. >> Well, that was not ours, but but he has talked to me about if we're going to be doing this again for us taking over that portion of it. We're going to We have not worked out all the details of the July 3rd block party. It was our
intention to potentially hold the same things that we did last year. >> Okay. I was going to request we ban it. The hot dog eating contest. >> What? >> I I came in fourth. I want a place. I want a place.
>> The winner was in my section. >> Yeah. And the guy You didn't like the look of it. >> I've seen >> And the guy that threw up was right next to me. I'll do it again. >> Yeah, >> I'm only half the name. Okay. >> Well, actually hopefully the the professional eater,
>> you know, he's there every year. I know he's there every year. >> Um and last thing, >> sour grapes, right? >> Last thing on that is um they are looking to do a u night Marcus. So to kind of do a Dickens Village type thing. Um so you know as as successful as the
Halloween market has been and and continues to be um many of those same people also do Christmas things and so they're looking to create that one night um during uh candle light shopping. >> I was in the Mount Holly night that was really cool.
>> Yeah. So it's a it's a new idea. It has not been fully worked out but they're looking at that too. >> Great. And that is the events so far between PFH and the burrow um for 2026. Great. It is my understanding, I have not heard from them directly, but but
via other other folks that uh the Lions will be back to us potentially for fall festival at for the first weekend in October, but we'll see. >> Haven't definitely gotten that yet. Um
Oh, ironically. >> So, that was the one part that they asked the poll. >> Has HC reached out about um Green Week at all? >> Not to me directly. >> Okay. >> Um >> HC >> Environmental Environmental. Oh,
>> so uh we just got this after the agenda went out. Yeah, we just got this today. um at 685 West Uklid. Um these folks went in front of zoning
board and received variances in October uh and are currently satisfying the conditions of the approval. And what they found out in that process is that their fence that they did not realize that is existing is in the right of way >> around their property and they would
like to permission to keep the fence. >> Is there no sidewalk? >> No. >> No. Sorry. >> So from a what's that called? Adverse possession. >> Adverse. >> Adverse. Right. The fact that we we
would grant them permission to keep the fence means that >> No, it's adverse possession in New Jersey is 40 years open. Notorious hostile. It's title to the property. Oh, I see. This is just use of >> That's what we're saying. We're we're granting a compost. Right. >> Right. But it's not it's not adverse
possession. They're not taking the land. They're just putting it. >> All right. They get back that other argument. >> Yeah. Yeah. Adverse possession. >> And that's on two both sides. This looks like it's set back pretty far though.
>> West. >> Oh, >> I don't know about the side. The front looks like it's by pretty far. That probably shows the details. We are removing the white vinyl fence visible in the photo facing Uklid.
>> And this came about as part of their zoning application. >> They found out the fence was in in >> Oh, like when they got a survey. >> Yeah. Because they they thought it was part of a setback and they realized it wasn't. >> Oh, so they put that fence up? >> No, the fence was there before they bought it.
>> Okay. Um, >> well, it's kind of like that fire hydrant [ __ ] from the last time. >> Yeah, that's how I'd see it. >> And that mean that's not I mean it's not right on the curve. It's back like >> looks like it's back like five, you
know, five feet of leaves. How far back it to be? Six. >> That's pretty far. >> Yeah, you can walk past it without having to go in the street. I mean, >> that's probably not like I was probably >> two and a half. >> Yeah, >> but even surveyor it's a fence. I mean, >> so procedurally, what has to happen?
>> Um, if you're okay with allowing the fence to stay, then we would write them a letter saying that >> Oh, yeah. >> Just like we did with the last one. >> It looks odd. >> Just plop. You >> know, >> their their line is probably the light
poles >> probably. As we sit right there. >> I mean, right now there's no sidewalk, so fine. But if we ever want to put a sidewalk on that, that's going to become a problem. >> And maybe that's the bridge with cross then. >> Maybe we're not even in office.
>> Right. Well, right. And >> so so the letter that Sharon would author that you guys would sign would just go into the zoning file. >> I would should we directly specify safe safe roots to school or any other reason that a sidewalk would uh be requested? >> No, because if there's then then you're
getting a domain if there's a safe route to school or someone then they would supersede that. Okay. >> But that's not a real concern right now. >> Yeah. But it's not on the list. >> It's not on the >> And they inherited the house like they got the house like that. >> That's why I said it's just like the
fire which I don't know how. >> That that fire was odd for the little wall there. Um I guess the closest school is Lizzy which is still a few blocks away. >> [snorts] >> Is that something we have to vote on? >> Um, I think
>> just make it quick. It's we're in the agenda discussion, but I didn't >> would something have to be added because it wasn't really like authorization to allow a fence to stay. I think it was other items. >> Oh, okay. No, I mean on our agenda it
was other items, but I'm just talking if it has >> added I I think you should do a resolution to memorialize. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's it's a smart. >> Let's add it for the 26. >> Okay. >> Resolution authorized. You're okay with that? >> Yes. >> Yeah.
>> And he asked because you know we have to authorize him to write it. >> Yeah. >> No. No. I want to write a check. No. >> Oh. Oh, you don't >> then pass it by him. >> Oh, I see what you want to be >> addressed. >> So, this isn't a complicated >> I'm not saying you're not up for a
complicated one episode, but >> how do we how do we approve a new sidewalk being added to an area that doesn't currently have a sidewalk, but like imagine not that not that example exactly, but like >> right, >> what's our process for that? >> That's a more complex question. I guess
you got to look at is it individual homeowner? Is it a lot? I mean is it a safe route to school up to the engineer? >> Traditionally we have if we've added them we've added them through the boat program >> right >> you know if if we're doing that area.
>> Yeah. So so if you're thinking about an area talk I would talk to dog >> in terms of looking at that particular area. >> We don't pass the cost onto the homeowner if we put in a sidewalk. >> No. >> I'm just thinking like how back in the day like during the depression they >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, but it won't be
that >> but as part of a road program if you're Tom Creek like >> if we decided to put in >> add sidewalks. >> Yeah. They would have to remove it. >> Well, no in in any area currently have one. How would we go about putting one in
>> and they're usually done during a road program? >> Yes. Correct. Yes. >> So I just talk to Doug to see where you're thinking talking about it and they'll give >> typically with sidewalks on streets that do not have sidewalks. We have had different opinions through
different groups. >> Um there was a time that that we that the commissioners had made the decision that they were putting sidewalks on any streets that did not have sidewalks. >> Um >> Wow. >> Yes. That was interesting. Um
>> Blues don't float chair. [laughter] Then what happened is we then switched to if there were not sidewalks on a street, we would send out a survey. And if 75% or more agreed to the sidewalk, then
we would install the sidewalk during the growth program. If 75% did not agree, we did not install the sidewalk. >> Okay. >> There's language in the master plan, too, most recently about areas that are prone to flooding. They're not going to add sidewalks. They're encouraged not to add sidewalks because it adds to
impervious coverage. Barber um >> that whole area, right? Like the Homestead area. >> Yeah. Which none of those places have sidewalks. But no, not most of them do not. >> This is a resident who reached out to me on Colonial on Willlets. You know that
>> so Willlets because you asked before. >> Yeah. I have as part of the design process for the 2026 road program, they are they are doing a survey of Willlets to determine >> whether or not >> what we have and whether we could or not. >> Okay. Because it is on it is a school
path. >> It it is not a direct school path. It is not the safe routes to school. It is a convenient school path for parents who are dropping their kids off. There's a difference. And we've tried to address the improvement of the safety of that area
by doing the no parking hearing corner signs earlier this year. >> Right. >> Yeah, that's my fault. >> I know that very well. >> Yeah. >> So, we are I am having them look at it. >> Thank you. >> When I get that information, I'll let you know. >> Got it. Yeah.
>> But then that would have to go for 75% of >> like a couple of properties depending on which side you're doing >> and their brick size. I wouldn't do I wouldn't do both sides. I would do one, but there's no sidewalks. >> Yeah, there's no sidewalks. >> So, they would be cement.
>> Cool. >> Um >> there's really no homes that front on mullets. It's all separated. >> Yeah. And the only two corner properties, the one has a sidewalk, the other one doesn't, >> right? Yeah. >> But but the other one that doesn't has historic home and never really had it, so we wouldn't let them.
>> True. It's kind of funny. Like one has then it ends. >> Yeah. >> Lots of places end like that. Uh, Choose Landing Road where I used to live. I mean, our house, the next house, the next house had sidewalks, but then the rest all the way to >> uh, >> Oak >> Oak. Thank you. No, and there's really
no reason to have a sidewalk to >> the property, you know, to the county. There's downline. >> So, so why are we doing a survey that what was the certain purpose? >> There's been requests to put sidewalk up. So, we're not doing a survey. We're just doing we're not doing a full-blown
survey. We're just taking getting um we're getting the boundary lines on the road just to see what's what's >> surveying the street. >> Yeah. Just getting Yeah. Just getting a review of what's on the street because I also have them doing the dead end
because we have tree issues in the dead end. >> Yeah. >> And it makes no sense. The dead end goes nowhere. So, we should just look at >> abandoning that. >> Abandoning that? >> Vacating. >> Yep. >> Yeah. That's just a worn path to get by friends for kids. It really makes sense.
>> Even gravel at this point broken up. It's not. >> So anyway, that's he they're looking at that too. >> Um and I should have your letter. I was supposed to have it last week, but I should have it this week >> for West End and and Uklid.
>> Oh, okay. Good. >> Anything else? >> I did not have a close session on here. I don't know if you want to wait till the next meeting to discuss the topic in close session that you were that was >> well no the next meeting Frank's not here so we should probably discuss tonight
>> okay so we do you want to deal with the press and then make a motion to go into close session >> Sam oh hi Sam >> hi Sam from the sun >> oh um uh the uh issue of public safety that
was mentioned with the first speaker is that that's something you're going to talk about. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. Um that's um and then I apologize for being new, but um did you make any decisions tonight about the uh HBC or
the um legal notice in the paper or is that >> they made a decision on the legal notice in the paper that was to continue publishing in the newspaper >> past the March deadline? >> Past the March deadline. >> Okay. Mar in March, we will begin posting it to our website as as
required, but we will continue to post in the newspaper. >> Okay. Then the APC, >> there was no decision made. We're still working on language. We'll bring language back to the February work session. >> And we would never decide that in work session anyway. That would be an action meeting we'd have to vote on. The other
thing is just how do we feel about >> it? [clears throat] um which company collects the >> uh EMS >> just says EMS in the in the documents or whatever MC
>> medical collection >> what is that >> historic work preservation committee commission commission sorry >> committee st commission makes >> committee st commissions make this decision but
>> not binding or not depend but >> well that's why there's a commission >> the committee >> oh we did >> several years ago >> fix my brain thinking All right. No other press. Do we have a
motion to go into close session? >> I'll second it. >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? Okay.