with Kathy. >> Yeah. >> Or his lawyer say >> when I when I when I called him I think you were here for >> the only
I love this. >> And I love just like speaks when he finds out somehow. >> Yeah. >> Got a good turnout today. >> How's it going, Bob? All right. >> Because
you keep moving your seat around. >> Is that you sit over there? >> Now you're sitting over there. room at the end. >> Paula, let me know when. >> Yeah, man. >> 6:30. >> We're talking about our cable bill
giving up cable. >> They didn't have me registered to vote. >> Oh, that's right. I saw you at the You will save money >> because heard you all. >> I heard in another district somebody was working. I forgot where it was at
really. And Are you still being careful? >> It's too easy to quit. >> I think we got >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. But then this >> I I was forced to uh forced to dis
they um they said that >> the one ends in a >> I can I can work >> you know work remotely. Yes. >> Pretty good. >> I don't know. up somebody
>> 6:30. >> I'm Tom McKay, chairman of board. >> Call the meeting uh to order. >> First thing we'll do is flag. >> You don't have to stand up if you don't >> to the flag of the United States of
America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Paulo, would you read the sunshine law? >> Notice that this meeting was published in according to the open public meetings
act. Okay. Uh we have a standard announcement that there will be no new business starting uh after 10:30. We'll if we start something before 10:30, we'll finish it up. But nothing new after that. Uh roll
call, please. Paul. >> Mrs. Tory, >> here. >> Mr. Noita, >> here. >> Mrs. London >> here. >> Mayor Gilmore >> here. >> Mr. Jakochi >> here. >> Mr. R. Murphy >> here. >> Mr. C. Murphy >> here. >> Miss Costco >> absent. Mr. Holden
>> here. >> Mr. Mai >> here. >> And Mr. McKay >> here. >> All right. Uh we're moving to items of for business. We have an administrative amendment to case 24-0. Sorry folks.
>> 3B >> 03B. >> 03B. Thank you, Paula. >> Couldn't find my glasses either. Um, is council for the Walters group here? >> Yes. >> Hi. >> How are you? >> Good. Would you come up to the podium? >> I just got a couple of I'm going to hand
out. >> Watch walking in the front because of the cords. >> Watch the we're told. Sorry. >> Watch the courts. Watch the courts. >> Watch the courts. Besides, I thought you were going to come down the end. >> It should be enough.
I think 15 or 16 copies. So, we should >> council when you're putting your remarks on the record. >> Thank you. >> Um, let's just start. It's appropriate if you think so. uh uh explain why uh you and your clients think that this can
be handled through an administrative amendment as opposed to having a full. >> Right. Well, I mean the main reason is um because the of course the changes deviate slightly from the site plan that was approved by this board in 2024 and the amended plan that was approved in
2025. Um but they really are minor deviations. Um no additional relief is required, no variances are required as a result of these changes. Um and really the the the purpose of these changes are largely to address some of the concerns of the neighbors. Um some fire safety
concerns and to improve, you know, how this the site will function and how the site will look. Um >> the neighbors being >> the neighbors being um if you're looking at the property, the neighbor directly to the left, I believe the last name is Bosnjak. Um >> it's an organization. >> Oh, okay.
>> Um >> fraternal type organization. Okay. Um, you know, one of the field changes that we're proposing is a vinyl privacy fence along the left side of the property and along sort of the rear of the property. If you look at the plan that I just handed out mark I marked as exhibit A1,
you can see uh the location of the proposed vinyl privacy fence. There's a basketball court kind of where that if you look at the left side of the plan where that kind of Vshape is where the property juts in. Um, and one of the field changes we're proposing is a 6ft vinyl privacy fence u to address one of the neighbors concerns that residents of
the u the 70 72 unit apartment community will you know use their basketball court. And so we're proposing a vinyl privacy fence there that does not require you know that could be resolved with a permit. Um, so that's one of the uh one of the the the um the field changes that we're proposing and I plan
to go through each of the field changes that we're proposing using these exhibits if um >> if that's okay with you. >> Yeah, that that's a perfectly good way to do it. >> Okay. >> Um thank you for the exhibits. They're very helpful. >> Mhm. >> So we want to mark these exhibits, Paula. Um
>> they should be marked A1 through A5, I believe. Starting with the site plan is A1 and the A2 through A5 are just some photos showing what the proposed field changes look like or what they will look like and you know the location of them
on the actual uh piece of property. >> They're marked in the top right hand corner of the photo. >> You can read four and five but the >> kind of hard to see. >> First three are hard to read. >> Two three. All right. U got those marked
then please continue. >> Okay. So, uh my name is Luke Grabiac. I'm with the law firm of Deluca Louis and Burough. As this board knows, we represent the applicant Hannesport Family Apartments who has previously obtained uh preliminary and final side plan from this board to construct 72 um
affordable housing apartment units um at the property located at block 104 lot 1.06. Um on your tax maps, uh the property is located on Creek Road. It's directly across from the intersection of Creek Road and I believe Mason Wood Road or Mason Wood Lane. Um and so without
further ado, let me just go through using these exhibits um to explain some of the field changes that we're proposing here. So the first field change that we're proposing um is has to do with mulch near the buildings, mulch around the front facade of the
buildings. And what the plan originally had proposed was a couple feet of crush stone along the front facade of the building to address uh fire safety issues. And then if you're moving from the front facade of the building toward the street, it would be a couple feet of crush stone, then a couple feet of mulch
with plantings. And the proposed field change here is just to convert that mulch with plantings to crush stone with plantings. And you can see in exhibit A2 uh that shows a photo of what um what the site will look like. Um >> A2 isn't the
>> this one. >> It's the first it's the first of the set of photos. >> Yeah, but it's not it's not the actual building, is it? Or is it just a >> That is the actual building on the right side of that photo. And this is So it was going to be crush a couple feet of crush stone um and then a couple feet of
mulch with plantings. And the proposal here is just to convert what was going to be mulch with plantings to crush stone. And that's really, you know, to address the fire safety issue as well as, you know, to make it look consistent. Um, and just a cleaner look in general. >> Um, so that's the first field change
that we're proposing. >> I uh I've forgotten and maybe our planner can >> Did we you did you include sprinklers for these planters or any sprinklers for exterior? >> I believe those areas are irrigated. Um,
and just very, and this is one of the simple ones in the application, and I'm sorry I didn't catch your last name, >> Gracak. G R A B I A K. >> All right. Thanks. >> Um, when this project was initially approved, these were all 100% mulch
beds. Uh, revisions to the fire code now require an 18inch band of basically stone mulch around the buildings. And um what the applicant is requesting to just instead of having 18 in of stone mulch
and then 18 in of wood mulch to go with an all stone mulch. This one is relatively minor. We don't really have any issues. One of their initial proposals was to actually if you see the lawn on the left hand side of the photograph to eliminate that lawn and
have those be entirely stone which we felt was probably not really consistent with the ordinance or the approval. So they've they've added the lawn back in. A majority of those are these are very narrow bands. We don't have concerns with them. It will facilitate some of their maintenance and the first 18 in of
it is to comply with the fire code requirements. >> And just to be clear, there will still be lawn uh grass areas outside the front of each building. Um that that proposal to make it all crushstone was rescended. Um and that's generally A2 shows what what it will look like.
>> Okay. So the next exhibit is we looked you looked at that with this just momentarily when you stood up. U that's the proposed fence line. >> Correct. >> Divide the basketball court from the housing. >> That's correct. And if you look at the plan which is labeled mulching plan.
It's really just a markedup plan to show u the proposed field changes um on along the left side of the plan that kind of vshape like that I described earlier. um that shows where on the plan that uh six foot vinyl privacy fence will go and it I believe uh the neighbor had reached out with concerns that the residents of
the apartment community would utilize that basketball court. So um just to address one of the neighbors concerns that's why we're proposing the the vinyl privacy fence there. >> Okay. Color white. >> White correct. Yep. It'll match the trim of the buildings as well as there's another field change involving a fence
um that will also that also involves vinyl private not a vinyl privacy fence but vinyl a vinyl fence as well which I'll get to in just a minute. >> Yeah. Uh any comments from a planner on on that? >> No. This was one of those issues that we disc we discussed it with Kathy and
because it is a six foot high fence and it wasn't part of the original proposal, we thought >> because there were a handful of these that it at least it was something that should be shown to the board in case any of the board members had an issue with any of it. >> Right. And it needs a permit. Of course, >> it does require
>> Yes. >> Okay. Uh, next item would be the entrance. >> Yeah, the entrance island area. So, the first field change here and I don't have a a photo showing this. Um but the concern here was I think we had proposed
some low plantings and um on that uh island entrance um shown at the bottom of the plan marked as exhibit A1. Um the plan the field change that we're proposing here is just to remove those low plantings that were proposed in that island area to the left um to the left
of the entrance. You can see um at the bottom of the of exhibit A1, you can see relocate plants from light pole area, which is really referring to the that that island area to the left of that entrance. Um and just to point out that light pole that you see, it says added
light pole on our plan that was already approved in the original site plan, which I think Mr. uh Mr. Taylor will note as well. >> And so what's the what's the reason for removing these? The reason there is to uh to avoid, you know, larger trucks entering and exiting the site to to damage those low plantings
>> to avoid damage to the low plantings. >> All right. Next, >> and our only suggestion in that is perhaps the area right immediately around the light pole, some durable low ground cover can go in because otherwise it's just going to be an entirely stone area. That will help
soften it up a little. And if the trucks are damaging those, they're actually hitting the light pole. So, but we don't have, you know, with the first half or two/irds to be converted to a stone mulch. We don't have an issue with that. >> So, so your recommendation, uh, Mr.
Taylor, would be to add some durable low ground cover around that light pole on the Y >> island entrance island at the entrance. So, uh, number three on the draft resolution, shift certain plant plantings out of the entrance island
area to avoid damage from trucks and replace with what did we say? Low low durable ground cover. >> Low durable ground cover. >> Okay. And I I believe you're um looking at the
letter that we submitted in connection with the this field change application. Well, it wasn't really >> I am. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, let's just go right down that list. So, um the second change here, um it doesn't really actually involve the entrance island area. Uh but I believe what what was
originally approved for the five transformers, if you're looking at exhibit A1, um you know, they're noted. I I think there are five of them on the site. And I think what was approved originally was those transformers would be set on a crushed stone surface. And
as you can see in exhibit A4, turning back to the photos, um what we're proposing is for those transformers to be on a concrete pad and then for them to be surrounded by some some crush stone uh with a wood support around that crush stone um to maintain it. Um and
and you know, we just think that that looks nicer. The crush stone will match the rest of the crush stone on the site. >> Yeah, it probably also helps level the transformer and keep it from sinking over time into the ground. >> Certainly will.
>> Any comments on that? >> All right. Uh next, uh >> yeah, the last field change number four. >> Yeah. Yep. Number four in our letter dated October 29th um is to so the the basin if you're looking at exhibit A1
there's a basin at the far left corner of that plan. Um I believe the fencing surrounding that basin that was originally approved was a post and rail fence with wood and what we're proposing is to replace the wood portion of that post and rail fence with with white vinyl fencing. Um
>> this the actual basin that we're looking at >> what we're I'm sorry exhibit A5 correct. That is what we're That is exactly right. Yep. >> Okay. >> And the the reason there was to make it match um the the trim of the buildings, the rest of the white vinyl fencing uh surrounding the property. Um also, you
know, to to reduce, you know, there's also a walking area that's going to to be um constructed or paved around that basin area. And we just thought wood would, you know, be, you know, people are going to be kids are going to be touching that fence, um, getting splinters in their hands and and we
think, you know, the the the white, uh, vinyl fencing is just a better option, uh, better looking, um, and it will match the building and the rest of the white vinyl fencing at the property. >> Any comments about that? >> Um, so I have a question. >> Is this fence installed already?
>> Yes, >> it is. >> Yes. And why is the wire on the inside not on the outside? >> I don't have the answer to that question. Um, I have Alex Cordderero here from Walters's Group to to assist
me with answering questions like this. Now, do you know why why that uh >> Well, we need to know because first of all, there was a permit needed prior to putting the fence up, but more secondly is that normally the wire fence is on the outside so that people can climb on
that fence. And if that's the case and the board were to approve this, then there's a lot of work that has to be rectified. I I I I I do not have the answer as to why the the wiring is on the inside of the fence. I I agree with you. Um
>> well, the the question to me is zoning officer, why was this put in prior to the board approving this? That's why I sent you guys here. >> Well, I I believe that this fence was approved with the original site plan approval, >> but not vinyl. >> Not vinyl. >> Correct. Wood. >> Wood. And that's
>> why you're here to ask for that permission. >> That's correct. um which I I believe is, you know, a different question as to why the the wiring is on the inside of the fence. I I I don't have the answer to that question. I can get the answer to that question. Um I I I I don't know the
rationale for that. >> Um >> we'll need to find that out sooner than later if they approve this. >> Okay, understood. We we'll get you that the answer to that. But the the the proposed um field the the the field change that we're seeking approval for
is for the um the post and rail portion of that fence to be a vinyl fence as opposed to to wood which was originally approved. >> What would be sad is that you put this in already. What if they didn't approve it? >> That is uh you know a potential area of
concern for my client. Um, but you know that that's why we're here this evening. >> Okay. >> You tack on the uh tack on the wire on the outside of the fence as well. >> I'm sorry. >> To remedy the the wiring issue. >> They're going to have to put on the outside.
>> Just Well, >> maybe just add wire to >> wire to the outside. So, there's wire on the outside and wire on the inside. >> It's like a belt and suspenders, I suppose. >> All right. Um, >> this is what happens when people do things what they want. I'm sorry.
>> Any comment from our planner? >> Um, this is a 100% affordable project as the town knows to help us meet our third round obligation. If the fence had not already been installed, I would have suggested if they wanted to go to vinyl to use a wood tone vinyl so it kind of
disappears into the landscape a bit. Um, so while I would have preferred something like that, this has been installed and this is 100% affordable project. So, >> right, that's why the wood fence was discussed so that it would blend in. >> Yeah.
>> And this really stands out. I rode by it today. It does, but this is probably tens of thousands of probably >> No, I mean at this point it's up, but >> yeah, >> I would agree though that they can then just go ahead and wrap >> the outside with let your client know
that just put it on the outside as well. >> That I'm sure they would be fine with that. Um, and again, the idea behind the the white vinyl here was uh to match the rest of the white vinyl on the property and the trim of the buildings as well. We thought it would fit in with the uh you know, the the the aesthetic of the
property. Um, I understand your concern. Um, but but yeah, they I'm sure they would be willing to uh to add wiring on the outside, too. >> No kids. So, no kids are climbing on it. >> Supposed to. >> Uh, is that it? >> That's all the field changes that we are
requesting approval for this evening. >> Don't do it again. >> I'll let them know. All right. Um, so Bob, how do you want to handle this? First, board has to decide whether these are
sufficiently dimminimous to Yes. If you do decide that I prepared a resolution in advance, but based on information submitted tonight, I'd like to revise more specific information.
>> So, you can vote on it tonight, but I'd like to revise the resol. >> Uh does does the board have the draft resolution >> uh which is called 2025-30? >> Yes.
>> I had a quick question just the privacy fence that's along the back between the the development and the industrial park. Y >> what color is that fence? >> White. >> It's white. >> I believe it's white. Yep. Can you confirm that's white? I'm I'm fairly fairly certain. >> Just asking. Yeah. So that the one near
the Bosnia X >> I am 99% sure that it's white. Yep. But I can >> you already [Applause] >> and those are very close to the building. So the white is not
in congruous there. It was just the basin. We' you know ideally hope. >> Yeah. Because >> and white shows up the dirt a lot more. All right. Um, the resolution that was drafted is essentially
um what's been proposed uh by by the applicant tonight. Um, on page two, there are uh five approved changes to the site plan. Um, our council tells us he he would like to
tweak a couple of those, but they are basically um, which are basically accurate from a point of view of the applicant, I believe. Correct. >> I'm I'm I'm sorry. The what are correct? >> Oh, you haven't seen this? >> I have not seen that. No.
>> Yeah. Okay. Um well uh they are I would say they're basically correct in terms of the testimony that that I heard you give. >> Okay. >> Or the representations really that I heard you given today. >> Yep. >> Um so
with that if the board would consider this draft and we can take a vote as to whether um the board approves this draft. um or not. So I guess vote would be to
approve the draft. >> We need a motion, two motions. One is to whether or not to grant administrative amendment. The second motion is whether or not to adoption as draft. >> Okay. You want to do that in two
motions. That's that's great. Um all right. So the first motion then if someone would offer >> Excuse me. Do you have to put the fact that the fence needs the wiring on the outside? >> Well, um >> or is that just part of
>> I think I think Bob will do that uh when when this draft motion >> is is finalized and he'll just add a little more detail on each. >> Okay. >> All right.
>> Being this not reading directions. >> So, just to be Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> No, no, no. Yep. Go ahead. >> No, I I I was just going to say before we before we uh before we go to actual motions, uh let me just open this to the
public right now and ask if there's anybody from the public or online. >> No one online. >> No one online. So, anyone in the room wishing to comment on this, raise your hand. You can come forward. I see no one raising their hand. So, we'll close the
public session. Um, so the first motion that I ask someone to offer would be to approve this as an administrative um amendment uh to the final site plan that's been
previously approved. Can I have a motion? >> I'll make that motion. >> Thank you. Second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Roll call. Mrs. Tory, >> yes. >> Mrs. Luton, >> yes. >> Mr. Novarita, >> yes. >> Mayor Gilmore, >> yes.
>> Mr. Tracoi, >> yes. >> Mr. R. Murphy, >> yes. >> Mr. C. Murphy, >> yes. >> Mr. Holden, >> yes. >> And Mr. McKay, >> yes. So the second motion I would ask for is one to approve uh the five categories
of uh changes that have been uh enumerated by council um and would be then incorporated into uh the final um the final resolution.
May I have that motion? >> A motion. >> All right. We have a motion. Mr. No. Noita. >> Second. >> Second it. >> Howard. >> Howard. >> Yes. >> You were a second, right? >> Yes.
>> Okay. >> Okay. >> All right. We have a roll call. >> Mr. Novarita. >> Yes. >> Mr. Holden? >> Yes. >> Mrs. Tory? >> Yes. >> Mr. Mrs. Lutton? >> Yes. >> Mayor Gilmore? >> Yes.
>> Yes. Mr. C. Murphy. >> Yes. >> Mr. R. Murphy. >> Yes. >> Mr. Jakochi. >> Yes. >> And Mr. McTag. >> Yes. >> Thank you for your presentation. >> Thanks everyone. Appreciate >> you. Remind your client to come see me for a permit. Okay.
>> For the for the fence. >> Fences. >> Fences. I will be sure to do that. Thanks everyone for your time. Have a nice >> good night. >> You too. >> Okay. clear the decks and uh >> move on to the uh second and last case
on the agenda 24-9 Arizon involving the property at 625 Lumberton Road. >> Morning council. Good afternoon, council. >> Good evening, Mr. Mr. Chairman. >> Good day, >> members of the board.
>> Give us give us your name and introduce yourself and we'll talk. >> Okay. Uh, Nick Tvakia, Cooper Levenson Law Firm on behalf of Verizon. >> Thank you. Um, I'm gonna hold off your introduction for just a just a second
because I want to ask our planner um to give us uh give the board a short overview lecture on the history what got us here today. and doing that because
there's so many members of the board who who don't know the history of the case because they haven't been around on the board, >> right, >> long enough and this goes back. >> I go back to 2006 with this. >> Thank you. You'll probably remember me from 2006, but you won't see too many of
the others in 2006. >> So, with that, um, Scott Taylor, would you would you please sort of give us the background and how we got to this Sure. So, if everybody knows where this parcel is, it's a 6.86 parcel uh located on
Lumberton Road. It's currently within the I Industrial Zoning District. Couple years ago, this parcel was included in the Lawrence Boulevard redevelopment area designation um which is what uh prompted the
construction of the warehouses at Lawrence Boulevard there. this property. The zoning was never changed and nothing was modified under that redevelopment plan, but it is technically a designated redevelopment area. Um, the site has
been used for decades um for Verizon for truck storage and as a maintenance yard and facility. And there are approvals identified in items four of our report dated July 31 amended August 26,
2025. Um going back to 1995, 2009, 2012, 2015. In 2017, the applicant was granted a minor site plan approval to allow the
construction of a 24x30 foot building addition to be used for the storage of materials. Um, that would have resulted in the removal of two construction trailers and two sheds from the site. And the applicant has not moved forward with
that proposal and is now seeking the permanent use of three outdoor metal shipping containers for storage where those are not permitted uh by ordinance and are expressly prohibited. Um and the applicant also proposes some outdoor
tire storage um and other changes to the rear storage area of the site along with some cleanup and some other reorganization. So that's a little bit of the the background of the site, some of the new report members. >> So council, I'll turn it over to you,
but I would ask at some point during your remarks, you talk to us about why uh we're now sticking with the seat containers. >> Yeah. >> And and I think we're changing them from
from two to three maybe. >> Yes. So Mr. Sure. And members, >> instead of instead of a pole barn or some other uh type of permanent shed out back, that would be more consistent uh with the zoning code, which these
containers clearly are not. >> Well, I I don't know that either are. These are fully enclosed just like a shed would be. That the the containers have an advantage of being 8 1/2 ft tall. The shed was 13 1/2 ft tall. So this is lower and we think that actually is better from a visual impact
standpoint. Although we don't think the public can really see too much in the back anyway. I will acknowledge that the fence has to be totally redone. The um slats are mostly deteriorated. That's going to be totally redone. But we actually believe that a lower profile
structure, whether it's a shed or a metal container, it's all about storage. It's all enclosed. Um, we just think that a the uh there is one container there. We're proposing to add two more and we're going to eliminate the two tractor trailers that are there. And
these sheds that were mentioned, they're they've been long gone. So, we're really, you know, and they're going to be toward the middle. From a visual standpoint, I I think it's better than the we think the client thinks it's better than a small building because it's lower in height that has less
impact. It's all about storing. These are designed to store equipment. So this is let me start. Could I start maybe at the beginning the context of what the >> starting at the beginning is always a good idea. >> Yeah. So so let me say this is what uh Verizon calls a work center. And if you
drive through it there are many many Verizon trucks parked there. And it's a work center in a sense that uh Verizon workers come to the site every day. There's very few who work in the building. There's only one or two are actually in the building all day. The Verizon service workers drive there. They park their cars. They come in and
they'll get their work assignment for that day. This facility handles 911 infrastructure, landline infrastructure, FiOS infrastructure. So that's what they're doing. They are going out repairing the infrastructure, upgrading
it, doing whatever. And the technicians come to the work center to get their work order and to pick up whatever parts they may need. So that's what's stored in the building and that's what's stored in the in the yard behind. Um and and so
really it's just about storage. So um Verizon thinks that the the containers there's again one there. We're proposing two more um are the most and I'll tell you cost effective. Verizon's a public utility. The more they spend the higher
their rates are BPU has to pass on to consumers. So they are always fighting the cost side versus you know ser providing excellent service. So um they are not like you know a non-regulated company. They are constrained on what
they can spend. They have to get through BPU. So that's always and we do Verizon work around the state. It's always an issue. >> Let me just talk about the sh I recognize that they they they have a a duty to keep their costs down.
>> Yeah. Um but this was originally proposed as a shed. So >> it was and somebody made a decision at one point that the shed was within >> Yeah. >> the the budget. So >> that was 201617 and a lot has changed and and actually
the reason the shed wasn't done we found out later. We didn't know it was you know I'm a lawyer I get the approvals and I I don't see what's going on that they determined that the the size wasn't adequate anyway. So, they did start putting stuff in the middle improperly. They kept the trailers there. They didn't get rid of them. Um, but over the
last year, we've worked with them and um based upon their current needs, they can eliminate the two trailers. As you said, the sheds are gone and they would just add two more containers. The containers are 8 and 1/2 ft by 40 by 12t wide, 10
ft wide, roughly 10t wide. So from a square footage standpoint, they're a little bigger than the shed, but from a profile standpoint, and I I repeating myself, but we think the height reduction is important if you want to reduce the impact of the use. So
we have a 6ft fence, which is the slots are going to be removed. You have slight roughly in the middle three containers that are 8 and 1/2 ft. That's going to have less visual impact than a 12 1/2 or 13 and 1/2 ft shed.
All right. One of as long since you're talking about the containers, I mean, one of the one of the comments in the review was the spacing of the >> Yeah. So, so we in in a normal that's for structures generally. So, that that would make sense in a normal
environment, but this is a work center and to spread them out serves no absolutely no purpose. We don't need to spread them out for it's only Verizon people. They're actually it's more efficient to site. I was just there to keep them next to each other. They go in and out. And to spread them out, you're
just going to create wasted space in the middle. It just accomplishes nothing. Now, in another context where the public can see these structures, yes, that the separation it probably is desirable or is desirable, but it just doesn't apply. So, you know, regulations and the board
has the authority to grant waiverss and variances when it makes sense to do so from a planning perspective and and you know that. So here if if you look when we show you the site plan there's no benefit to separating them other than the making the site less
efficient right trucks are parked there at night there probably 40 or 50 trucks at night the morning they're picked up they go out so the stuff that is stored the three containers would be next to each other we think that makes more sense at 3-foot separation rather than
10 foot that's all it's just it works better in this site plan >> all right I know you're going to put the site plan up and talk to us about that through your engineer or corporate rep in a minute, I'm sure. >> But, um, one of the other, um, uh,
issues, um, that that council has been alerted to, I assume you've read the tailor design. >> Yes, we have. >> Letter. Um uh I think the thing we want to go through
this letter and so it may be that um when you have your engineer or your uh or your representative uh go through the the current proposed plan that um they try to address the
various points made in um in the general comments and then council at some point um I don't know whether you have an expert to testify about the uh the variances requested. >> We do. We have a license planner.
>> Okay. So, I I'll let you figure out the the appropriate order as you want to go through those, but then please be mindful to uh walk the board through uh your responses to um our planners
letter. And uh while you're at it, you can also please address the Alimo letter, which uh is primarily concerned with parking issues, the number of parking spots, uh but also um the fence
issue, which you've talked about a little bit before. >> Yeah. Um, and there's a barb wire issue on the fence. And there's also some some wiring that's connected to the fence at some point back in the back end of the yard. >> We're we're prepared to address those
items. >> All right. So, I'm going to leave it in your hands to uh I guess give us this give us an overview of the site plan first. >> Okay. So before I I start, I'd like to introduce my associate Ben Ojerkus.
Uh Verizon representative Megan. >> How are you? Are they going to uh is the Verizon rep going to be testifying? >> Uh only for questions. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Well, what we'll do this, we'll swear in the Verizon rep and your um and your planner.
>> All right. And your engineer >> and our site um our landscape architect who prepared the site plan. >> Okay. realize. >> So we three of you can come up each one >> and just each of you give your name your corporate affiliation and we'll council
our council will swear you in. >> I'm Megan. I'm an associate director with Verizon. >> U Mitchell Arman, licensed engineer and professional planner with Reynolds Group. >> Okay. >> Jeff Reynolds, landscape architect and project manager. >> Okay. Vice president.
>> Okay. We we'll get you guys qualified when you when you testify, but for now, raise your hand so we can swear you in. >> You swear or affirm the testimony you give tonight will be truthful of the truth. >> Yes, I do. >> Does anybody ever say no to that
question? >> I've been wondering for 37 years. >> All right. So um so again work center um Verizon's a public utility um it is an inherently beneficial use under the law which means
that for a use variance it satisfies the first prong of the of the criteria for a use variance which is special reasons presumptively assumed to be um permitted as a special under special reason. So the test then shifts to the
negative impacts and whether or not um they are so substantial that they outweigh the public benefit. So the public benefit here which the testimony will be is that this um provides support for 911 services fi and landline phones
everything other than cell uh towers. That's that's different. Um, so from that perspective, we think it serves a vital public interest and we'll go through that. So the site is oversized. This is a zone that only requires 2
acres. We're 7.19 acres. We are um have very low building coverage. Um, very low overall coverage. We are, if you look at the uses permitted in the industrial zone, we are
one of the least intensive uses, maybe the least intensive of what's permitted in the zone. So, we have an oversized site, underdeveloped site, and we have a relatively in, you know, um uh relatively less impactful use than
what's permitted. And again, I stress this is not a residential zone. It is an industrial zone. this is supposed to be where you have this kind of use or even permitted by ordinance more intensive uses. So it's important in the context of reviewing an application to to put in
context of what the governing body wants in terms of uses. So and this is of course been here for many years. Can you uh when you're uh when you're going over things, can you address the issue of whether there will be storage
of um uh tanked uh gases? >> Yeah, we're going to cover that. That's one of the questions. Yeah. >> And and also the um uh the contaminant issue. What's used? How do you dispose of >> Yeah. >> comments that come back?
>> I'm going to you know what? I'm going to tackle that now because it's it's a it's a big issue. But I do want to say this. Um, while this is characterized outdoor storage as not a permitted use, I actually view the outside storage as an accessory to the primary use. That's an
important distinction. Um, it's it's a matter of it whether it's enclosed or not. We actually think that when you put these things in containers outside, it's not outside storage, it's enclosed. So, but we know the ruling has been historically it's a use variance, but I
think there's an argument it's accessory use, which is a different character because now some of the uses, we do have tires out there that's prohibited. I agree with that, but they're not principal uses. They're accessory to the main use. They support the main use. On
the issue of the um and I'm not going to call it contamination because we have Verizon has LSRPs on staff. The site where the poles are stored was evaluated and as an LSRP uh he would have an
obligation, a legal obligation to report any suspected contamination DP. He did not report anything. We talked to him. Um he said that the poles are coded. They used to be creassote. They're now a different chemical, but it's designed to
be a waterproof uh chemical because these poles go into the ground and they get impacted by weather. Um, if these poles were problematic from a groundwater standpoint, they wouldn't, the state would not allow them to be placed in the ground throughout the
state of New Jersey. They're all over the state and they're allowed to be put in the state. So, they store them there. Um, they are what's known as a large molecule cover u coding. I'm not a scientist, but that's what they tell me. It does not mix with water. That's why
it's waterproof. So, it does not intrude into the ground. So, our environmental consultant says, "Yes, you can smell something close to it, but they do this all over the state. There's not an issue." Um, he felt there was no need to do any further environmental testing.
Again, his license is on the line. Um, so we we've asked for a waiver from that testing. We believe it's unnecessary and unnecessary cost and again we did evaluate the issue. We did we took it seriously but we did evaluate it.
So I'm going to continue if I might, Mr. Chairman. >> Yes, please. >> All right. So we are seeking preliminary and final site plan approval for uh what uh Mr. Taylor talked about um outdoor storage, the containers. Um we do have some tires there because they repair
vehicles from time to times. Not a lot of tires. we looked today. Um, but they are there and there's cable. There's this is this is a worky yard. That's why it's called a work center. >> The tires are used tires or >> No, they're they're um they're new, right? >> No, no, they're new. They're for in case a tire needs to be repaired. They do
some very minor repairs of the trucks at that site. >> Okay. And and uh is there some uh arrangement protocol in place to keep the keep water out of the tires? They're notorious mosquito breeding areas.
I don't know the answer to that question. >> I don't I don't know the answer. We didn't think to ask that question, but it's it's it's a standard practice throughout the state rise and apparently I I don't know of any issues that have been arisen and I I understand your point if water collects inside you can
have but I no one's indicated that that's an issue. I and I I want to point out you raised the parking question. So there's about 40 to 50 technicians that come in every day. They take a truck, they park. We have 50some parking
spaces. We have more parking spaces than we have technicians. So, we have we believe the parking is adequate. And the trucks are stored there overnight. So, I was there tonight before I came here. And all the trucks were in a line uh you know, mostly bucket trucks. And um as I said, during the day, a technician will
park his or her vehicle and then take a truck out on the road. And by the way, this is not a public site. The public does not come to this site for any purpose. This is purely Verizon personnel. >> So all of the Verizon
trucks and the employee vehicles are all behind the fence. >> Correct. Okay. >> Okay. >> Um I only have nine more pages. >> Whether you want to address the fence now or leave
>> Yeah. I Let me talk. I drove and yeah, that fence totally needs to be rehabilitated and Verizon uh we proposed that all the slats that I saw were pretty much disintegrated. They're all going to be replaced to um restore the
opakqueness of the fence. Um but yeah, you can see right through the fence. So there's no question that that fence um needs to be rehabilitated. And there's we've also I think that the gate is broken on the left side. >> Sir, someone have a phone going? That's
my my two co meter alarm going off. >> I'm trying to silence it now. >> So, um if we need time to you to do that, we'll just we'll take time.
>> Can I ask a question about the fence if that's okay? >> Well, I'm going to ask a question first and then um you you use the word rehabilitated regarding the fence about three or four times. Um to me that means you take the existing fence and you patch it up. Is that what you're doing?
>> All the slots would have to be replaced. It have to be straightened and fixed. That is one. We have one we have a proposal to do that. It's just and it's still substantial amount of money to but it'll it'll restore its functionality. >> Right.
Um there were some issues about barb wire on the >> So and electrical cable being >> I can do the barb wire. Um, virtually every Verizon facility and has barb wire. This has always had barbwire as far as we know. And believe it or not,
some people try to steal copper from the yards, right? So, it's designed to um deter theft. >> Does the Does the barbwire And I didn't walk around the perimeter of the whole site. You really can't. At least I couldn't.
>> Um, is it all around the whole fence? >> I believe it is. I drove around and I think it I think it is. >> Yes, it is. Yeah. And again, it's it's it's a standard practice of Verizon has to prevent theft because, you know,
unfortunately people steal. Um I mean, you have I'm assuming, but you you'll correct me if I'm wrong, that you have other security measures on the property such as surveillance cameras and things like that. >> Honestly, I don't know. I really don't. I I >> maybe our maybe our Verizon
representative would know that. We do have cameras at that site. We have them at the majority of our our garage work centers. >> So, the testimony from Megan is that she believes that facility has cameras and that most if not all their work centers have cameras.
>> Is that large reels of copper or wire? >> There's there is copper back there and that's that's one of the primary items that's stolen. Yeah. And >> that's on the large reels. Yeah, there's a large reel for other
another wire. Yes, exactly. >> All right. Uh, is there anything else going to be done to the fence like repainting it before the slats are put in or anything like that? >> Um, we're going to look at the proposal we got to see what the scope of work is. >> All right. Well, while uh while they're
looking at that, you can please continue. >> Okay. So I I I think Kathy had a question. >> I did on the fencing. Is that are you looking to do let's say I guess the word patchwork on the property on the fencing or are
you looking to take down all the chain link, keep the post and then put up new rolls of chain link with the slats already in them. >> She's going to look at the proposal, Kathy. Yeah, we we did get a proposal though, so we'll see in a moment what it
says. >> I just think that might be a better idea aesthetically as well. Is that that you're not going through this very large site and patchworking this? >> I I looked I I don't even see how you could patch work. They're they're so deteriorated and and it might be more
cost effective to have the slats pre-installed and just roll it out. >> Yeah, you can buy those rolls like that. Yeah. >> And then just use the existing poles and then and use that. Yeah. Um I didn't do the bidding on it, but um Megan will
look. But the goal is to make the fence functional from, you know, an aesthetic standpoint and to serve the function of keeping visual to minimize the visual impact of the yard. But, you know, I stress it is it is a work yard in an industrial zone. So, it is, you know, I
don't want to be um glib about it, but it's not going to look like Central Park right back there. It's it's a working area. >> I understand. Um, while we're waiting for the Verizon representative to give us some more detail about the fence specs, uh, Ryan, are there We covered
parking spaces and the fence with your report. Anything else that you wanted to address? >> Uh, just a loading spaces there. >> We we um we were going to get into testimony with
our civil um our landscape architect at the site plan, all of those site plan issues. So, Mr. Are we gonna answer now or as he goes through his testimony? >> We'll we'll wait till he goes through his testimony, but just make a note of that. >> Okay. >> Um, so we can move off the fence. Any anything that the Verizon rep can report
to us? >> I'm just trying to find it in my email. Sorry. >> You did ask a question about the wires that are hanging from the fence. Therefore, to power electrical warmers for the trucks and cars. So I have a question then on that. >> Yeah.
>> Since I have a picture from July of 23 that the ballards were installed um protection on it appears to be the um propane tanks. I would assume that they are um
>> gas. >> My construction office has no permits on any electric or anything such as that. Um, so that's something that needs to be addressed for the construction >> office and and we we were going to talk about because there was a question I think it's compressed gas, correct?
That's stored there. >> Yeah, they got some gas and they use it for spot welding on on site and they need to use some welding. They got their gas, >> right? >> That's something too that I think should be addressed to my construction official
as well. >> Okay. Um if the board were to go ahead and and you know approve everything. >> Understood. >> Okay. >> Well, when you when you're going through the the the site plan cover the issue of storage of that.
>> Yeah. We we um we actually were try going to try to address all the comments and the testimony of the experts. >> Right. And and these and if these are live wires that are connected to the fence, I guess my question is what are they just using the fence to hang the wires on?
literally exactly right. >> I don't know if that's going to go under electrical code. >> It sounds a little bit a little bit funky to me. Uh >> yeah. Well, well, if if Mr. Chairman, if uh we can address that during the testimony and obviously it doesn't meet
the electrical code, we're going to have to make it meet the electrical code if you approve it. But it is something that they need for um uh vehicle heaters. But but we were going to discuss that a little bit later. All right. >> I'm just getting through my opening. >> Yeah, I hear you. And I'm sorry to
pepper you with questions talking and thinking about >> that's okay. >> issues. >> I know you're a lawyer, so that's what you do, right? >> Ages ago. >> What was that? >> I'm a retired lawyer. >> Good for you. I'm hoping to get there. >> Yeah.
>> Um All right. So in any event, um I think we have covered just from this back and forth a lot of what I was going to say. So um I think it's time then to uh bring up Mr. Reynolds and I'll
qualify him. >> Can I ask one more question? >> Absoluters. >> Yes. So, is there a time frame of how often you get rid of them and how long they stay and how many The reason I'm asking is because in our other
industrial park is that I know my fire official has issues with tires um and um how often they stay, how many that you have. Can there be some testimony through the
process here in regards to that? As far as I know, Mr. Reynolds can talk. They're they're new tires and you know, they're as they're used, they're replaced. They're So, what's the story? There's just inventory as they need them. So, it's it's it's they're not the same tire for like years. They they get
used over time. >> You're taking off the old one and put on new one. What do you do with the old one? >> Oh, they're disposed of or at least they're supposed to be disposed of. They're not supposed to be left in the yard. >> Correct. >> Yeah. Only the new tires are stored in inventory outside there. I'd like to add to that. Yeah.
>> If you ever have a DP inspection, >> I'm sorry. >> If you ever have a DP inspection and you will have an issue with tires, >> okay? Uh >> work for a company that had tires outside, wasn't an issue. I would just
advise you to make that go away. >> And you you have a sense of what the issue with the tires was? Why was D? Well, whatever you were told, why was DP concerned about tire storage in the open? >> Same thing as you had mentioned before.
Uh, two issues, mosquitoes, and apparently there's a substantial effort to reduce the mosquito population in the state. >> Okay, I get it. >> It attracts unwanted critters. >> Okay. Was not aware of that >> advice.
>> Thank you. Um, >> yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure either of those issues is much of a secret around >> New Jersey, but go ahead. >> Yeah. Um, all right, Mr. Reynolds, you've been sworn. I'd like to qualify you. You are, what is your qualification?
>> I'm a landscape architect. >> And by that, uh, designation, you're permitted to prepare site plans in the state of New Jersey. >> Yes, I am. >> And how long have you been doing that? >> Uh, since 2002. >> All right. You've been qualified by boards in the past, I believe, by this board.
>> Yes, I have. as a expert in that uh landscape architecture. >> Yes sir. >> So based upon his lensure as a landscape architect um the fact that this board although not necessarily these members have qualified him in the past and fact he's been qualified you do Verizon work all over the state. Correct.
>> That's correct. >> And you get qualified all over the state. >> Yes for Verizon over 25 30 years. >> Right. So I offer him as an expert. Mr. Chairman >> council will accept him as an expert in his field. >> Thank you. So Jeff, you prepared the um the site. Do you need him to hold a
microphone or something? >> Number one that turn marking the site plan as exhibit exhibit number one. >> A1 says number one. >> I see your number one tonight. >> Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Excellent. Okay. >> All right, Jeff. So you've prepared the
site plan. You're familiar with this site, of course. >> Yes, I am. In fact, you were part of the team with me back in 2017 when we got that approval. >> Yes, I got the approval with you in 2017. I've been involved with this site since 2011 about.
>> Okay. So, describe what we're doing, what what's being removed, what are we adding, and then we'll talk about fencing and landscaping and those things. >> Okay. This is a a picture of the site in the center of the rendering here. And
basically the ins uh when everybody comes into the site, they enter from the south. They come in, it's a nice long wide driveway. It's 20 ft wide. They've got a sliding gate. And then the Verizon people come in here and at this point
they can decide to turn left or right. Uh they generally park all of their Verizon employees park right here in this section. And all of the boom trucks are down along the fenced area. And there's Verizon vans and cars and
trailers and pole trailers and real trailers all down in this south side of the site. The outdoor storage. >> Um, can I just interrupt you? Where where is um uh >> I think I can see it. Where's Lumberton
Road and and where is the boulevard that goes through the industrial? >> This is the industrial street industrial boulevard down here. >> All right. And then this is the Lumberton Road >> which is a county road.
>> This is the horizon outlined in green. This is not all property. >> No, I understand. I'm just trying to give a couple of landmarks. >> This is the full Verizon property as you can see the white line around.
But what we did was we superimposed and put just to the Verizon fence so that we could see in the area what was surrounding it. >> So I thought that was a a good way that we could present this to you. >> So the area that's green there around it
is the fenced area. >> Yes. >> But the actual property is larger than that. >> No, not on this line. Down here it is. And back here it is. You can see on this aerial. >> Let's let's mark that too if we could. Um another aerial.
>> So this is all horizon property. So this is buffer. This is buffer. And here we have post. >> Yeah. Basically there's only a sixoot chain link fence for privacy that buffer >> and the the nonfenced areas. Uh does
Verizon use them for anything else other than a buffer? >> Non. >> No. No, Mr. Chairman. They are just open space. Um, I wanted to mention about the tires. Yes. Um, going back to that, the tires that were stored outside of the
facility, they had rims on them, so there was no water going inside the tires. And these, I believe, are the tires that are going to be put on the work trucks for the winter time. They're going to be snow tires. Oh, sorry. But >> so will they also have rims on them so
they're ready to go on? >> I believe so. So that they could pop them right on. Yes. >> So I didn't see any tires that were empty collecting uh water, but I did see the rims on the tires. >> Council, can we confirm that issue with the Verizon rep? >> Megan, do you know?
>> I do not know the answer. >> She will find out, but she's not sure. >> Okay. So, you're not disposing of old tires. You're leaving other new tires on the site. >> I think they've got the tires there new,
ready to go on the trucks as soon as they need them. >> They're mounted already on the the wheels. >> Right. So the representation is that all the outside tire storage is pre-mounted tires, either regular or snow tires, and that when
uh the used tire is taken off the vehicle, it is disposed of offsite and not stored on site. >> Mr. Reynolds, is that correct? >> That's correct. >> Yes. I would assume though the tires that are being taken off are have rims as well because you're putting a new
tire on that has a rim. >> Absolutely. Yes. >> And how long then do they stay there? Where do they go to? Because you're not disposing them to the um any sites they have to go somewhere to remove those rims.
>> I know that they changed the tires. Yeah, we're not sure how they do that. If they send it to another site to take the old tires off and mount the new tires on, >> but the testimony is that what's stored outside is pre-mounted new tires.
>> Do we know how many tires are there? >> I was there today. It looked like 20some to me. >> So, clearly you're not going from summer to winter tires on all vehicles. >> Uh, not probably not at this point of the season. No, but >> so these are just tires there that are
going to be in an emergency. You're taking one off and putting another one on. They're taking that other one and dispose it up. >> The tires that are there all have rims on, so there's there's no water to get in there or anything. >> That's what I saw today. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I thought the testimony was
that these are just snow tires and they are changed seasonally. So, I'm not sure if they're repair tires or >> so. So, this part portion of this building is sorry, a portion of this building has fleet maintenance. So, what
that is is the cars that either the tires have run to their end of life or there's been a pop tire or something like that. There are tires that are kept there and when there's an issue, they are brought into that portion of the building. There's a bay and they change the tires in there. So, they are tires
that are there rimmed, ready to go when it's either just they've noticed that they're, you know, ready to be changed or a tire is popped. >> So, they're not snow tires. >> They're not snow tires that I was I'm aware of. No, they're all season. You come, you're there, they say, "Hey, it's been a year, whatever, however long it's
been. Your tires need to get replaced. You're up. Your tires get changed." >> That makes sense. And then how and then how long do the worn out tires or the damaged tires that are taken off, how long do they stay on site before they're >> disposed of?
>> That I don't know, but my understanding is when they come off, those tires stay inside. This the tires that are outside are only the new ones. I don't have the answer for how long they stay there, but I can find that out. >> But they remain the the removed tires remain in the building. That's your testimony. Well, for
>> I mean maybe like the I I honestly until they're taken off site, >> right? Not brought outside, >> but I don't think that they stay there for months on end. It's a certain period of time. Could be the end of the day, could be the next day. I'm not sure, but I know it's not an extended period of
time that they're they're left inside. >> Well, the critical thing is they're not they're not put outside, >> correct? >> To increase the tire storage. >> Correct. It's just the new tires that are left outside. >> Okay. Does anybody on any on this tire issue? Anybody else in the board have any questions there? We've covered it
pretty well. Thank you for raising the issue, Tom, of mosquitoes and pests. >> All right. So, um the site plan. So, continue, Jeff. >> Uh as you can see, existing vegetation
out front. We have three existing two trees. We have one tree, a 24 in oak that's closer to the Verizon facility. We also have a white pine down here in the corner. These are the only trees around the front. There are a few
miscellaneous that have grown around the edge of the fence over time. Uh but basically, one of the the lot is clean. It's grass. And I propose to put a double row of of um some inferry holl just to soften the
building >> across the front there. >> All right. Well, we will get to the landscaping as the discrete discussion later on, but I'd like to please continue with the with the discussion about the the layout of the yard. >> So, the layout of the yard is the same
as it has been for many, many years. It hasn't changed since I've been here in 2011. And basically, uh, it wraps around. You can drive anywhere you want. The outdoor storage. There's real storage on the
outside near the fence in this corner. And there's sand bins in this corner. There's real storage here. This is where the acetylene tank storage is. And then we have some more miscellaneous uh poison box, full boxes, and plastic
boxes that Verizon will use. And basically, they're stored around the outside. The trucks are stored on the inside more. The Verizon cars are in the center, the Verizon employees. And right along where the Verizon park uh
employees parked, that is right where we have those two storage trailers that we want to replace with two containers. And basically, the containers are going to be in the exact same place as where these storage trailers are. >> But but Jeff, the storage trailers, they're the um they're like a tractor
trailer. The back of the >> tractor trailers. Right. >> 13 and 12 ft high. >> So they will be >> what we're proposing is 5 ft lower. The two store >> Yes. >> containers. >> These um these containers or sea boxes,
however you want to label them. >> Um they're going to be put on the asphalt, dropped on the asphalt. >> Are they on blocks or what? What? How do you >> We were going to put right on the asphalt. >> All right. And then how far >> correct uh Nick before they are only 8
ft wide not 10 ft wide. >> Okay. Okay. >> They're 8 and 1/2 ft high. They're 8 ft wide and they're 40 ft long. >> What was you had just mentioned 13 and 1/2 ft in height? Trailers for two existing window. Okay. >> Yes. >> So we would actually be losing 5T in
height with our new storage units. And they're going to be placed how far apart between the >> We wanted to have them the same as the trailer were about 3 feet apart. It just works best for the workers on site. >> Is that Is that a more efficient layout than separating them by 10 ft?
>> Yeah, it's more efficient and won't lose more. >> Is there any benefit to separating them 10 feet in this case? >> Not that I'm aware of. >> I mean, they really can't be seen by the public. Correct. >> No, not really. pop right down in the center of the site. You know
>> why did you decide to space them three feet apart then? >> Why decide three feet apart? >> That's what currently exists out there now. >> Okay. The existing tractor trailers are 3 feet apart. >> Yeah. >> All right. So
there's there's no other there's no other reason to put them 3 feet apart. >> No no no technical reason. Just you could squeeze them together and have no space between them. I suppose >> you could. Sure. >> And
why not do that? >> We can do that. >> Can you still access them, Jeff? They're all together next to each other. >> I think as long as the doors will open, I think >> at the at the ends. >> Okay. So, that's an that's an option. The spacing is is is optional as far as you're concerned. >> Yes.
>> All right. Please continue. >> This is the entrance down on the south with a sliding gate and there's an exit to the north with another sliding gate. Uh the residences around our property are all along the street road. And we do
have some other adjoining pieces. This is a a truck repair center back here. We have a mobile home park back here. And then over here we have the commerce center. I believe it's a huge
warehouse center that was >> developed recently. >> Yes. >> New development plan for that. >> That's what everything is here down south looking at this rendering. >> Um you want to go through those comments?
>> Sure. Yeah. Co cover what you can cover. >> Yeah. I'd like to go I'd like to go through the comments if you have the um if you have the tailor design letter. >> Yes. >> In your hand and just uh go through point by point so we can we can all
track what you're saying. And I would say um that it'd be good to start with general comments part C on page three of six. >> Okay. All existing outdoor storage areas and structures should be addressed. I
think we covered that. >> I I'll have to rely upon your testimony. I think I think you have but but you tell me. >> Jeff, did we cover that? >> Yes, we covered that. >> All right. Uh 1 Z the number of storage trailers and containers should be clarified and the sizes. Have we done
that? >> We are going to get rid of the two storage containers to replace those and three containers. >> And they will all be 8 and 1/2 ft high, 8 ft wide by 40t long.
>> That's correct. >> All right. And the spacing is something we can >> your discretion. >> We can make a we can make a note on and discuss. >> Right. Okay. So then see um materials stored on site. We haven't
discussed that to any extent. >> It seems to me we had we had poles, we had equipment. >> Yeah. >> Maybe there and we have trash containers, but that's a separate topic. So we just deal with storage of materials right now and the different
kinds and how they're going to be kept. >> Do you need more testimony on that, Mr. chairman. >> Uh well, I guess the question is um on the pole storage, those are all new poles, not uh not yet
installed. >> Correct. They're correct. >> And uh what do you do with the old poles that are removed? >> They're just disposed of in a normal course. I don't know. >> They're not stored. There's no >> No, there's no uh used pole storage on this yard.
>> Not supposed to be. No. I I think we may want to clarify that for the record because I think when we were out on site historically there have been remnants >> and broken >> advised that they're not supposed to leave them there. So yes, that so they
are not they're supposed to be disposed of properly. >> All right. So no used poles will be stored on site. >> Correct. >> All right. Now you told we we've already talked about the tire storage, the new tire storage, tires on
rims. Um any other types of material storage going on? We have cables uh on >> reels reels >> cable cabling >> cabling on reels. >> Correct. [Applause]
>> And anything else? I I believe in the actual storage containers there are parts that are used for repair of and I'm not going to tell you exactly what they are but they're electronic parts that are necessary to repair FiOS um could be adapters could be motor
>> all that all that stuff is inside the trailer closed up >> or and the building and the building >> and the building but I'm thinking about other larger um >> items that would be stored in the yard besides the poles. We'll we'll talk about the compressed gas, but yes, I
think we covered the uh other items. >> All right. And what are we doing with the compressed gas? These are these are cylinders, correct? >> Cylinders that are and we're going to have to get permits for them if the board approves it. But they are used for welding on site.
And Kathy, does that pose any sort of a problem from the the fire department sent a letter in saying he approved >> proposed but >> what I look at is that normally when there have been any type enclosures or ballards,
we require permits especially on those ballards because we have to see the depth of them, the the size of them, what they're used for. Um, is the fence there is a fence around from what I can see there's a fence around the um
>> Yes, there is. There's a fence around the entire compound. We do have ballards on the side where the parking is so that in case a car were to hit it, it would protect the fenced in area. >> So that that fencing would need a permit
because it's it's new technically. Um, but this is something I would just um I would go over with my construction official in regards to anything that they would be looking under. Uh, it's not under the IFC, it's the the UF, I mean um >> fire code. >> Yeah.
>> So, just to make sure that um the electrical is the bigger issue for me. Um, it's not normally under the electrical code that you just have wires hanging. So, I think that that's definitely something that needs to be addressed ASAP. Um, if the board were to approve
everything. >> Understood. >> But let me understand this. There there's going to be a fencing fenced area within the fenced yard uh for >> been there and it's been there for probably 30 years. >> And that is where inside that fenced
area is is where the gas cylinders are kept. >> They've been storing gas cylinders for years. Yeah. And I've got pictures, you know, 10 years ago where there were 30 cylinders in there. Today it looks like there's only about 10. All right. And this is >> my fire official myself. We don't
recall. I mean, these were I I'd like to see proof of that to be honest with you because this fencing looks fairly new and I've been here 23 years on that site many times and again I don't recall seeing cylinders here.
So, >> well, this area is going to be designated for the storage of cylinders. >> It has been for many years. >> All right. And um assuming >> what is this used for the cylinders? Was it >> for for welding? >> And where do they do that? Inside the
building. >> No, they don't do it inside the building. They they take them with them and do it out in the field. >> And if and if for field welding. >> Okay. >> All right. Um please continue then. You've got um
>> All right. We talked about compressed gas. Then item two. All right. We talked about the contamination issue and our position is that um there's nothing further for us to do given the assessment by our LSRP
which um he's got a question. >> Yes. >> Oh, it's up to the chairman. I >> Yeah, go ahead. >> The U previous have historically had issues.
Uh the good news here is we already have that site. >> Yeah. And and >> the polls are not they don't use creassote anymore. They have a different chemical >> historical issue. >> Yeah. >> So if your SRP didn't find an issue, uh
sounds like it' be easy for him to send a letter to the township to say it's a clean site. >> We do that. >> I believe so. >> Yes, we can ask him. I I will uh he did inspect the site but putting aside this site
creassol does not seep into the ground into the groundwater because it's a what they call a large molecule chemical. Same with the new thing that's why they're used for waterproofing because they don't mix with the water >> differently through my experience. Yeah.
No, doesn't get um it's not water soluble, >> right? >> But it does seep and it does micro >> which is why it was banned. And I and Nick, I thought we had an email exchange because we noted the creassote smell during our site visit and noticed the
sort of remnants and dust and chunks at the ground surface. And I thought that there was a dialogue that you guys found and I think we talked about it during one of our technical zooms that utility companies were still actually allowed to
use creassote treated. >> I remember that. So let me explain what we found out before we got the LSRP in. We just assumed creass. We looked at there was a brief period of time where New Jersey banned it. Then they allowed it again for utility companies and we
assumed Ben and I and Megan that was creass because that's what we knew you know historically our um LSRP said no we actually don't use creasso poles anymore it's a different chemical Ben could pronounce it I can't pronounce the name but it it's not a chemical that was ever
banned and it it has the same waterproofing qualities but it's not creassol it's different >> is it ACQ or CCA >> penta chloropthanol >> penta Yeah. >> So, this site has been here forever when
even when it was Bell Telephone. Yeah. Back then, >> I recall when I started is that there was always poles in the back. So, we're talking 23 years ago. Back then, CISO was on them polls. So,
right now, if there was any on there, yes, I would agree that maybe they're not. But what about the historical storage of these creassotes holes in the back of the facility for a very long period of time? Has he
>> So we asked our LSRP about that and it's his opinion that creassol or the new chemical just does not migrate into the groundwater. Just doesn't get there. I'm >> not talking about the new >> or both. Either no either salt or the
new one. He said it just it's it's a large molecule that just doesn't get deep into the ground. It'll be at the surface of the ground for sure and you might have to scrape an inch or two off at the end, but on a normal basis, it's not a contamination issue. And again, I
stress um if he thought there was a contamination issue, he has a legal obligation to report it. >> So, he can provide that letter to attention. >> We're going to ask him to. Yes. >> Can he or will he? >> I I can I you know, I can't. That's that's a big issue here because it's a
site intending or not. And his determination is it's not. So, we just want proof that's not >> We'll get you that letter. >> Cleanups are very expensive. >> Yeah. >> And we don't want the town to be uh stuck with the bill.
>> Does Does the LSRP Does he have a report? >> He did not do a report. He did a site inspection. >> He did a site inspection, but didn't put it pen to paper to create a report on it. No, we we we um we had a discussion with him. Again, he he did not see anything that was reportable or
necessary. >> Yeah, I I I think it would be prudent for there to be some type of an analysis and some report particularly about the creass soap and the remnants because of the smells that we observed when we were out on site. And the whole
reason, and I've dealt with this throughout my career, the whole reason that Korea soap was banned was because it does actually impact groundwater. Um I think I think it's important for the board to have an understanding of what the LSRP did, what their findings
were, and what any recommendations they have. >> All right. So, so Mr. Chairman, that could be a condition of any approval you might grant. >> Right. That's a >> or it may be something the board wants to see >> before the vote.
>> Yeah. I think uh rather than make it a condition, it'd be something that we would want to see up front. >> Understood. >> Um so please make a note that and you know we'd like we'd like a thorough comprehensive
letter detailing his inspection, his observations, and his conclusions. >> Okay. >> And I don't know whether he did any testing, but if he did, then we would want the testing results as well. and >> and I I think that that is a document
that should be filed with the board to supplement the filings uh that we've that we're talking about tonight. >> Understood, Mr. Chairman. And I think that should focus, you know, significantly on the the creassote and
whatever the new storage um materials are. But knowing that we have few de few decades of an industrial use out here, if there have been any other chemicals or any other solvents or any other hazardous materials out here, what what
are their other findings? So, I don't want it to be sort of hyperfocused on the the timber pile storage area, but just generally for the outside areas. >> Yeah, I'm I'm not aware of any of
contaminants other than um well, no contaminants, per se, other than the storage pools. It's it's it's wire and cabling, that stuff. But we'll we'll ask them. Well, on this point, we've sort of gotten a uh a little bit stuck on this issue. Um I mean, I'm
hearing the sense of the board is that they would want to see that report before they voted on this. So, >> understood. >> I understand you've offered the making a condition of approval, but >> we'll do it the other way, Mr. Chairman. It's it's totally up to the board. >> All right. And how how quickly do you
think your uh your expert can have that report in our hands? It's getting the end of the year, so approvals and budgets to get it done. It's going to take some time. >> Um,
>> yeah. Okay. So, I'm being told that Verizon would actually use an outside consultant for this. So, we would have to get a requisition approved and and and authorize the work. They would not use the in-house LSRP for a report. So yes,
it can be done but it will take I don't know 60 to 90 days >> 90 90 90 days to go through the whole process of authorizing the funds. >> They get a couple of bids authorize the
work the work is done and realistically that doesn't happen in 30 or 45 days. So we're going to ask for 90 days Mr. Chairman >> 90 days to file the report with the board. >> Yes. Realistically, I I don't want to give a false >> Scott. Is that something that you can
live with? >> Well, yeah. I mean, it it really just postpones the the matter further in. It does, but I think it it does, but at the same time understanding, I don't think that the board
>> I get the sense from the board that the board would feel much more comfortable seeing the results of this because if it's a problem, then it has to be dealt with. [Music] All right. So, that that is squared away. And Bob, do you need any other
notes on that? >> Okay. Can I get can I just ask you about the wires on the fence about >> Well, we'll get Well, let's we'll get to that. I I want to talk about the wires if you don't mind, >> Rich. >> Sure. when you when you're getting when
you're getting to the fence issue in your presentation, let's let's talk about those because it sounds like a an electrical uh nightmare to me, but we'll see. >> It's probably just extension cord. >> Jeeoff, go ahead. >> You want to continue the uh the numbering?
>> Yeah, sure. Uh I think we are now on page four >> four six. Um I think we're at number three then. testimony regarding all approvals. Um I I'm not sure, Scott, what you're
asking for there. Um >> so all the areas that are currently being used for outdoor storage have been historically used that way and have been part of the prior approvals. >> Yes, that's correct. Um and then I know somewhere in the
report we had actually asked for all those storage areas, the real storage everything to be specifically dashed and delineated. what what we don't want to have happen and as as we all know sometimes these sites and the storage areas tend to grow organically
over time because none of us in this room are actually on that site on a year-to-year basis. So I think having them dashed on the plans um would be >> you got the majority of it dashed on the plans now but I noticed that there was
some real storage along this back fence >> right that that was the biggest thing that we had noted but to really identify all those and then um also potentially and I don't know if it was in our report the maximum height of anything that's stored
>> everything >> like the real height yeah how high the how high the stack of of polls should be >> and that's even something if we don't have an answer tonight at a subsequent hearing when we talk about the LSRP report
what I think we want to be cognizant of we only have you know if you have some pipe on racks and it's six or eight feet high now I think it would be prudent to cap that at a specific height so we don't come back in two years and there's a 22 foot rack system out there which is
different than what anybody anticipated knowing we have residential uses in the area. >> Well, we'll we'll agree to detail that on the plan. I mean, the plan does show now at least most of the areas, but uh we'll update it to capture all the areas and then at the heights of their
>> Let me let me let me make two questions on on this issue. You have the storage space delineated on the plan for the polls, for example. Um, is there is there merit to delineating
the storage space on the pavement by way of uh painted lines so that that five five years from now when everybody who's there has long ago forgotten this hearing, they will know that that poll
storage can't expand beyond the yellow line. It's a very organized site. I'm sure you drove through and you saw how organized it was. >> Well, I I can't get beyond the fence. So, I didn't get inside the site. >> Okay. >> I walked around it.
>> Yeah. If you had gotten on the inside, you would have seen that, you know, they really do a nice job. They keep things organized. Things are where they should be because they need to know where to find them, you know, every day to utilize them. So, it's really a very functional site as to where they put
things. on purpose for a reason. >> And the full storage area is actually the only area in the rear that's not paved. Correct. Right. >> That is correct. >> And that's going to run. >> So maybe if the site plan can can just
be maybe you can dimension that pole storage area so it's it's clear to everyone moving forward >> that it's just the extent of that unpaved. >> Yeah, I can add notes around here. I can readjust this and I can give you dimensions and heights of all the stored materials.
>> That would be good. And you'll do this. You'll do the same thing for uh not so sure the the gas fits in that category, but certainly the tires. The tires do. >> Yes. >> All right. Um can we move on? >> I think that sort of addresses four and
five. >> Yeah. Um >> uh >> the dumpsters six. We've talked about the dumpsters a bit, but not really head on. >> Yeah, we we propose to leave the four dumpster on site, right? Same location,
Jeff. >> Leave the dumpsters on site. Same location. One of them was said to be in the drive aisle. We can push that one out of the drive aisle. >> Are these dumpsters picked up by a by a disposal company every so often? >> Yes.
>> Yes. And there's no is there the question that's been asked is whether it's advisable to have a some containment of the dumpsters as opposed to them just being >> Yeah, we we that was raised. We don't I
mean there's very limited sight angles into the site. So we don't know that it accomplishes anything. You're suggesting it's more likely they'll get knocked down by the by >> Well, it's it's one more item. It's one
more item to maintain and it's just again if when we fix the fence you right it nobody's going to really see that. So, and it doesn't bother the workers to have them not fence. Now, if this were, you know, outside an apartment building, you'd want to do a a fence enclosure,
but we have a fence enclosure for the whole the whole yard. So, we don't think it's it's we think it' be redundant and potentially, as you point out, something that will get um damaged over time by vehicles. All right. Um but at least as was done
with the the the storage areas uh on the plan should be they should be delim delineate where the storage containers are kept and >> correct. >> All right. Seven. I think we've dealt with seven. Scott, are you agreeable that we've we've dealt with seven?
Yeah. And that's really just a matter of the board's issue. I I don't necessarily agree with um Mr. Talvakia's assertion that a metal shipping container is even 5t lower is more attractive
than a building. Um, so I don't know if he's going to have an expert testify in that regard, but our ordinance expressly, you know, does not permit these uh for a reason, but we would defer to the board. But I I I don't agree with
>> Scott. What I mean, no, I'm I'm not being argumentative, but if if the ordinance prohibits outdoor storage, isn't a building for storage the same thing as outdoor storage? >> No. That then it becomes indoor storage. But the container, why is that not
indoor storage? It's just closed up. There's a door and you're storing inside. I don't >> Because that's a structure that's expressly prohibited. >> What a storage container. >> So the stuff that's happening inside that is not what you need a use variance
for. The the mechanical things that you're storing inside there, you don't need a use variance for that. The big metal box is what you need the use variance for. >> All right. I would say that's a variance for structure as opposed to use, but okay. >> Except they're expressly not
>> Oh, good. I'm not I'm not going to argue the point, but I would still assert that 5t lower is better in the context of a workard. >> And you're also suggesting that because we're dealing with a public utility that
somehow these containers are a cost-saving measure. >> They're cost effective, right? They do the job and they're less visually intrusive. Now, you know, if we were outside and there's no fence, it's not a yard. Yeah, I would agree. I I would think that a a a an accessory structure
building would be nicer, but we're not talking about this is an industrial zone. It's an industrial use. It it's appropriate. And again, we think the lower height is better from if if the goal is to minimize visual impact to the
community. 5T lower is better. >> All right, let's move on. Um, >> I think we covered eight. >> Eight. Eight. We've covered in the discussion of the creassote and the polls. I think um
>> nine I think we partially covered. We are going to clarify the plans. Uh Jeff, do you want to while we're here just talk about the parking in terms of how many spaces we need and what we have? >> I don't know that I know the exact
numbers. I did it one time, but we have plenty of parking on site. Um, this whole entire area down here to the south is um, it's got Verizon trucks and vans
and pole trucks and all kinds of stuff in there. And if you look at the aerial um, certain aerials at different times of the day, you can tell when the when the picture was taken because you'll see the Verizon trucks all lined up here at
night. And if there was a daytime photo, you'd see all the rising, you know, uh, personal vehicles in the center and all the work trucks are gone. So basically, this is a very efficient area that they utilize constantly. They can do the same thing for years. >> Yeah. >> Is there a designated visitor? Are there
designated visitors slots? >> There is a designated visitor area right behind the building >> for how many? >> Handicap accessible. >> Okay. There's one handicap accessible and the and the others are visitors. And there really aren't any visitors to this
Verizon site. It's a Verizon. >> Yeah. There's no there's no customers in case somebody >> So you're saying that there is adequate parking for the existing service vehicles, the employee cars, visitors,
and handicapped >> employees for visitors for service vehicles. There's adequate parking and there's then some. We have some extra, that's for sure. All right, Ryan. Uh, I know you had some numbers in your report. Where did you get those from? Parking slot numbers.
>> Uh, who counted on the plan? Uh six six visitors spots located northeast side of existing building and um 62 other spaces with um 56 employees although that's just a
current count I guess. >> Yep. And are those are those numbers consistent with your observations of site. >> All right.
Scott, anything else on the parking? >> Uh, no, sir. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, >> all right. We 11 is the chain link fence. Um, and I were we gonna get some additional
information from our Verizon representative on that. >> The um proposal, sorry, the proposal that we got for the repair was just to replace all the slats around the fence. >> Okay. >> It wasn't to remove the chain link. It was to take out all the old slats and
put in new green slats. I think there's wood there now. It would be green plastic. >> Deteriorated when slats reaction. >> Well, knowing that we're coming back in a month, it it might or in a few months, it it might be prudent for the applicant
to take some photographs of that or our office can to be able to show the board what the condition of the fencing is and what's proposed. Um, and whether putting up new black vinyl chain link and using black slats in there may be less a better
screen, more consistent with the ordinance. We do have residents across the street. We have residents that drive up and down Lumberton Road and we have an adjacent resident um to the sort of northwest of the site. >> That's not what they're proposing. >> Seems like a lot of work.
>> I'll tell you that's a lot of work. >> I was just discussing that with Megan. I own defense company, me and my husband for over 20 years, and to individually pull those slats out and replace them is an enormous amount of labor.
Um, sometimes it's easier to just undo all the ties, take off the chain link, and then buy the chain link with the slats already in it. um >> and leave the poles in place >> and tie it and retie it again. >> Especially if that fencing has been even
tapped by a truck and >> deformed at all trying to get the slats in is a >> you would be paying more probably in labor cost. >> It's like a puzzle. >> Looking at the proposal that is accurate. >> Yeah.
>> All right. So, so like the um uh the the pollution issue with the creassode um you'll you'll go back and re rethink this fence issue. >> Yes, Mr. Chairman. >> Thank you. >> Is the is the barb wire where is the
barb wire? We would like to retain that that that has been there for decades and um Verizon finds it uh to be a theft deterrent at all their facilities. >> So it's it's along Lumberton Road. There's one that
>> um is there well there's very little fencing along >> the building mostly along Lumberton. >> Yeah, it's mostly building >> but the other three sides is that the barb wire goes around the top of the fence on the other three. >> You wouldn't see it here. That's all property. You wouldn't see it here.
You could see it here. I mean, you would, but again, um, we think it's it's just prudent to protect the, uh, assets that are stored there. >> So, wait a minute. Um, did I just understand you to say that on two sides?
>> Yeah. >> That are your property, there's no barbwire. >> No, there is barbwire. I'm saying our property actually goes to here. >> Okay. But all around the fenced area is barbwire. >> Yes. >> All right. Well,
the board has to make a decision on that. But we've heard the testimony. We've heard your testimony. So >> I believe in the state statute that says you can't have a perimeter barbwire fence unless you have the consent of the
adjoining property owner. I know there used to be. I haven't looked at it in a while, but I think the statute still exists. >> We'll look at that. I've never heard of that, but we'll look at that. >> And and our experience has been with housing authorities and everybody else
who has had it, the barb wire becomes more of a safety liability for the inadvertent trespasser. Anybody who's intentionally coming in to steal wire with a 4 foot section of carpet or a car heart jacket can throw that over, climb
over the barb wire or a $4 wire cutter, they're over the barb wire. So, anybody who's intentionally trying to do that barb wire is not much of a real deterrent, but it does create a safety liability for sort of the inadvertent trespasser that tries to climb
something. So, that may be something you want to talk to Verizon about. We'll discuss that issue also. >> Yeah, put that put that on our >> statement. Can I make a statement too only because I deal with this on more than anybody probably in the building is
that one of the big things we have state police here and one of the biggest things that we have dealt with with many of our businesses is that does Verizon have no trespassing signs on this property at all? because I'm
going to suggest if you don't, you need to get them. We've dealt with this up and down Route 38 where the businesses did not have them and then there were issues out on site and um as the state police had stated was that they need to be posted
all over no trespassing. >> Okay, we'll we'll look I don't know the answer. All right. >> That would be a really big issue for you guys to help in case anything ever happened. Those signs will protect you,
believe it or not. >> All right, that's on your to-do list then. Um 12. Finally, we've reached the electrical wires hanging from the fence. >> Jeff, >> my understanding,
and I might be wrong, is that it's just a wire. I electrical cord that you can take from your car and plug it into something >> to heat their their their block heaters for their truck. So, they've got the
wires hanging ready so that they can simply just plug them into the wire >> up wires. It's just >> it's like an extension cord. >> It's a wrap wire to a junction box that has a plug that you can plug a heater into. Correct.
>> That's what it must be. >> Two things come to Yeah, >> two things come to mind. The the name Rub Goldberg, but also he we're not Maine. Why do you need heating blocks for engines?
>> Diesel. >> You need them. >> You need them. >> Are they diesel? >> So, our experience has been you can't have exposed wires in any exterior setting. At a minimum, it has to be enclosed within conduit. But as a condition of approval or even prior to the next hearing, it may be prudent for
you guys to meet with Kathy and the electric subcode official and determine what can or cannot be mounted to a fence and in what fashion. >> Figure out the proper way. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> It's going to come back on you guys. Gosh forbid something ever happened. You
guys want to be protected knowing that you did it right. >> If the truck backs into the fence and >> exposes the college of the college of Paul Smith's College of Boris and I had a a block heater and I had it hanging
from a tree and I ran the cord from the kitchen out the door window and I hung it from a tree and every time I pulled in I plugged it in but I was the only guy on campus that my car ran the entire winter because it was always warm. >> All right. Well, I won't debate that
maybe you need block heaters but I think they ought to be wired with some uh professional advice. Absolutely. >> All right. So, that's on that's another on the to-do list. >> Jeff, uh 13, 14, and 15. Any issues with
making those revisions? >> No issues with making those revisions. >> So, 13 and 14 and 15, we will comply. >> All right. 16. Um there are some utility poles down here that are lined up and that is the poles
that they train their personnel on to learn how to find the poles, how to hang the wires, how to do whatever you need to do with the poles. So that is a pole training center here where they have I think it's like five or six poles all lined up. This is 16 >> 16
>> polls >> are they they're they're indicated on the on the plan. >> They are shown on the plan, but I'll label them outside the fenced area. Correct. >> They're outside the fence area. Correct. >> And they probably ought to be labeled as
training poles or something like that. So the specialized purpose is clear. Yes, sir. >> All right. Now, we're dealing with lighting D and we can deal with that as one one group, I think. Um,
you said that we shouldn't have any more lighting permitted as of 2017 and that there are existing flood lights on site. >> We're not proposing anything new. Correct, Jeff? So this talks about the future >> and the recommendation is and and we've
done this with with other sites because outward shining flood lights that create glare on adjacent properties becomes a nuisance. So any future replacements are recommended to be done with full cut off fixtures at a 3000 degree Kelvin.
>> That's fine. I think Kathy pointed out three, four, five, six years ago a complaint and we did make an adjustment and I think >> it came from the neighbor across the street. >> Yeah, she called me and we got it adjusted. So, I don't think there's currently a issue there, but the comment is fine.
>> So, we've not had any since then. >> Okay. >> So, Verizon will agree to comply with this with the lighting comments >> future. Yeah. >> Okay. And now on to landscape, which I I cut you off earlier when you were talking about some landscape because I knew we
were going to get to this list. Um, so u I mean this list identifies a lot of suggested landscape changes. Um, so please respond to the suggestions. I would suggest that I work with the uh
landscape architect to uh to iron these out. >> You've not you've not uh since you got this letter, you you've not talked to Taylor Design about how to work out their suggestions and in practice, >> but knowing that we have a few months
and the applicant has expressed the willingness, I think we have some time to make some progress toward a shortened hopefully a shortened uh list of items in the report. >> Yeah. And Mr. Mr. Chairman, I just want to emphasize again that there's always a budgetary concern with a public utility.
This is all beautiful stuff, but it's expensive and expensive to maintain over time. So, >> we understand, but so is my Verizon bill. >> Um, but no, we we we >> Me, too. But >> you made the public utility point. We
understand it. We get it. We We're all consumers, you know, pay the bills. But uh yeah but but that's the purpose of having these uh expertto expert discussions. We we reached compromise that >> understood. We'll work with Scott.
>> Okay. Thank you very much. Appreciate that. >> I think that uh I think that does it for the various professional comments. Although if I miss something I'll be called to task by >> I just have one thing for loading.
Where will the loading happen on the site? Especially because it brings like big materials like poles depends on what you're loading. If we're going around to the pole loading, it's going to be done out here in the yard. But if you're loading something in the building, there is some
back off the building. >> You know, like approximate time you >> varies. um you know there sorry >> sorry if there's an accident or something and a pole needs to be replaced that's an emergency so you know
that's not like something that's going to be on a scheduled time frame >> deliveries >> deliveries and all that it's during normal working hours 7 to 5 around those hours um but it's not like a set time at 10:00 and delivery occurs every week um it will vary throughout the working day
>> so this facility generally speaking runs from 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Generally speaking, yes. Unless there are, like you said, emergencies and that sort of thing in which an accident or something has occurred, there's a downpole and then the construction people need to come in, get a pole, go out and repair, >> right?
>> Or there's an outage or something, then people need to get into the site to get materials, >> right? But absent those emergencies, you have a set of set hours. >> Correct. And to that point, and we we sometimes put them because this was existing, I think you skipped over it,
because we have some residents around, a lot of times we >> um request a condition that all trash pickup and deliveries be limited to 7:00 a.m. to 700 p.m. Um would that be agreeable? And then with a caveat that aside from emergency loading operations
on site, but that way if you're scheduling a pole delivery, you're scheduling a Yes. >> a tire delivery. >> Correct. Yeah. I that should be shouldn't be a problem. >> Yeah, it most likely occurs that way today. >> All right.
>> All right. I think we've done all we can do on this tonight. There's a to-do list that Verizon has to look at. Um the remaining question in my mind is do we set a new date for for the f for
the f additional hearing on this or do we just set a date? >> I'd like to set a date. >> Set a date. >> And if we uh for some reason can't make it, but let's put it on the calendar so we know it's there. Um >> Scott and Ryan, are you okay with with
that? >> So we need 90 days December, January, February, end of February for your uh for your bid time. >> And do you have dates for next year?
>> I do not. >> Oh, >> tenatively I would say it would be March 4th. >> Well, I will not be here March 4th. Um I'll be I'll be I'll be in Europe so
>> can't participate even by phone if I wanted to. >> Okay. >> Um so I would think and I think March 4th is probably too short. So I would say we look to April. >> Yep. >> First Wednesday in April >> if we can announce that date. If it turns out that's not the real date.
We'll renotice but we can announce that date. So >> tentatively April 1st until we adopt the dates, >> right? We haven't adopted the we won't do it until the first meeting in January, the new dates. But >> if we can just announce what we think the date will be, it turns out that's
wrong. We will renotic. But it turns out that's the correct date. Then we don't have to renotice is what I'm asking. >> Right. So well I I I think you probably Bob I think they this new date in April probably should be renoticed, >> shouldn't it? So
>> we know the April first Wednesday. >> It's April 1st, but we haven't adopted >> Hasn't been formally adopted until January. >> But I think when it is formally adopted, assuming it is April 1st, it should be
renoticed. >> Well, I I you know, we did notice. >> Nobody showed up. >> We noticed if you pass a motion to continue to that date. >> Okay. >> If it doesn't on that date. He's got to re
>> Yeah, I that's fair. That's correct. >> But we also need your consent. >> Yes. >> To extend to that date and please give it to me in writing. >> Okay, Ben. >> I will give it to you in writing. >> We'll we'll get a letter out. >> Okay. >> Okay. Consent to
>> extend a hearing a time for approval. >> Extend the hearing and time for approval till uh tenatively till April 1st. >> Yeah. um subject to confirmation January 1st when we when we or thereabouts when we issued the the new formal dates. >> Okay.
>> At 6:30 p.m. >> Chairman >> just for the LSRP. I just adequate time to review it. You get that to me by like March 1. >> Yeah. I mean it's November that should be fine. >> I think we said I think the
representative of said 90 days. >> Yeah. >> So December, January, February. But yeah, the the revised plan, the revised plans as well and the LSRP report. >> So what what let's just set a a date definite so we have something we can tell everybody. >> I think March one at the latest
>> Okay. >> works for an April one hearing. >> Can I ask a question in regards to does Verizon use their own do they have their own electrical people or do they use an outside source? The reason I'm looking is to try and get uh get an idea, a
gauge of a time frame to get this electrical issue looked at um from a licensed New Jersey electrician, explain what's out there so that we can have my electrical sub code take a look and see what you guys need to do sooner than later on this.
>> That would be an outside vendor. >> Outside vendor. So, I would suggest then if you're going back in regards to what you have to do for that, if you could put that on your to-do list to get an electrician uh approved and then to come
see me and we'll we'll talk about what he needs to do with my sub code. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um, we have uh verbal consent to continue this till April 1st
>> and I'll provide I'll provide written consent to >> follow up in written yes >> form. Um, can I have a motion uh to adjourn this matter? >> Do you want to open to the public just in case there's any public hear? It might >> Well, I you know >> the hearing is not closed yet though, right?
>> Hearing's not closed. I just assume >> but if there's anything >> That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh I'll take that suggestion and we can end it. Uh any member of the public uh wanting
to comment on this raise their hand. I see no hands. I see no public. Um so therefore we'll close the public meeting for this session and a motion to adjourn this to uh the
April date that will be formally >> April 1 at 6 >> selected we think it will be April 1 but formally selected in our first meeting of the reorganization meeting in January >> but Mr. Chairman, you are carrying this to April 1. No further notice. You're
going to c you're formally April 1. No further notice. But if it >> changes, we'll notice. >> It goes beyond that, we'll have to notice. >> Understood. >> I have to say, Nick, we'll be together 10 years on this project in April.
>> That's all right if it takes a little time as long as we get it right. >> But it's always been a pleasure working with you. >> Same here. Thank you very much. So, may I have a motion? >> I'll make a motion. Steve, >> second. >> Roll call.
>> Mr. Novarita. >> Yes. >> Mayor Gilmore? >> Yes. >> Mrs. Tory? >> Yes. >> Mrs. Luton? >> Yes. >> Mr. Chochi? >> Yes. >> Mr. R. Murphy? >> Yes. >> Mr. C. Murphy? >> Yes. >> Uh, Mr. Holden? >> Yes. >> And Mr. McKay? >> Yes.
>> Thank you. Good night. Are you guys related? >> No. >> We say we tell everyone we are, but >> Good night. Thank you. He's better looking. >> Thank you. >> I don't know about that. >> All right. >> Yes. >> Uhoh.
>> They knew how many Murphy's there were in Ireland. >> Find my agenda. >> Smith is still the number one name in Ireland. Murphy's number two. >> All right. Um, let's get this meeting wrapped up. We have some resolutions.
>> One second. >> Um Bob, we're not doing the resolution on um the affordable housing complex. You're going to >> you're going to edit it somewhere. >> I want to revise that. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> Um then then we have three resolutions that we can look at. 20 2025. >> We go back to minutes first. Um, you want to do minutes? Sure. We can look at
minutes of the July 10, 2025 meeting. Um, assuming everybody has reviewed it. Can I have a motion to approve the minutes as written? >> Motion. >> Second.
>> Mrs. Leen. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Tory. >> Yes. >> Mr. R. Murphy. >> Yes. Mr. Novarita. >> Yes. >> Mr. C. Murphy. >> Yes. >> Mr. Mai. >> I just saw something. Present and >> Mr. Mai. >> Yes. >> Oh, you got to say something.
>> Excuse me. There's I think there's a mistake. >> Two Murphy's >> on the roll call that I'm looking at. It has present and >> I know it's a little different. >> Yes, I know. I already got it fixed. It's marked on my You were absent. >> I thought so.
because I always >> All right. Um, >> right. You don't need to. >> Okay. >> Next resolution is 20 25- 29 JDB Martin Highway >> 28
>> 28 >> 20 >> 28 first >> CVS 28. >> Yeah, I'm sorry. uh 2025-28 CVS. Yes, my uh my vision is is is failing
>> as as you probably can see. Don't worry. >> Well, I hope the uh opthalmologist straightens me out when I see her in about a week. >> But until then, we'll help you. It's not a problem. >> Yeah, >> but things are really bad. Um
so uh motion to um to approve 2025-28 as drafted please. >> So move >> second. >> Is that Mrs. TW? >> Roll call. >> No, no, no. It was um Janice.
>> Y >> Mayor Gilmore. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Leen. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Tory. >> Yes. >> Mr. Novarita. >> Yes. >> Mr. R. Murphy. >> Yes. >> Mr. Mai. >> Yes. >> And Mr. McKay. >> Yes. >> All right. Next, we have uh the JD EB
Martin Highway LLC uh matter denying site plan. This is resolution 20 25-29. Uh motion to approve as drafted would be in order. >> Motion. Second.
>> Roll call, please. >> Mrs. Tory, >> yes. >> Mayor Gilmore, >> yes. >> Mr. Mai, >> yes. >> Mr. Novarita, >> yes. >> Mrs. Luton, >> yes. >> Mr. R. Murphy. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Sorry. >> And Mr. McKay?
>> Yes. Now, the last resolution listed is the one we spoke about at the front end of dealing with these resolutions. And um uh Bob's going to u edit that a little bit and we'll deal with it next week or next meeting, excuse me. And
then we have correspondence. Uh does anybody have a particular interest in any of the letters? Otherwise, a motion to receive and file would be in order. [Applause] >> So move.
>> Second. Roll call. >> Mayor Gilmore. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Leen, >> yes. >> Mrs. Tory, >> yes. >> Mr. Noita, >> yes. >> Mr. Jakochi, >> yes. >> Mr. R. Murphy? >> Yes. >> Mr. C. Murphy? >> Yes. >> Mr. Holden? >> Yes.
>> And Mr. McTag? >> Yes. All right. Any professional comments? >> I want to wish everyone happy Thanksgiving. As I said last year, it's the best day of the year. Scottson today
after Thanksgiving. >> After Christmas, >> well, thank you very much. >> You like Thanksgiving. Yeah. Happy >> Happy Thanksgiving to you, too. >> Yes. >> Hope you're not traveling anywhere by plane. >> The moon out there tonight. >> It's been beautiful.
>> No other professional comments. Ryan, you're you're okay. >> Mr. McCay, did you see that wonderful moon out there tonight? >> Well, I fell out. >> I know it is. There it was last night too. >> The guy with the the restaurant. >> So >> equipment >> I guess it it may end shortly.
>> Uh any public comments? >> Anyone sitting out in the audience? I see no one actually. I see one person. >> Two people. >> Mr. McCay, can I say something? >> Yes. I was going to ask for board comments next. >> Oh, okay. Because we had it um reversed. That's why.
>> Yeah. Board comments, please. I just want to say how uh sorry I was to lose a dear friend and past chairman of the uh board H Croll Fifer past. And
>> when was this uh >> the 15th? >> The 15th. >> Yeah. >> And um >> he was a great asset to this community for a very long time and a dear friend and >> I miss him. >> Yeah. Yeah. He he was a terrific
chairman. >> Um dedicated to uh to the board to the town. >> So many ways. >> Well, he'll be he'll be he'll be long remembered. >> Indeed. >> All right. Any other board comments?
>> That's a shame. What a nice guy. >> Yep. >> Scott, do do you >> forgot. Do you see us, you know, when we talked about the sidewalks and moving forward as a board, we've talked about our stance on that. Is this storage container thing
something we should be talking about how we feel about as board members? And because I just feel like, you know, Hannesport, you know, is the kind of town where there's some people that live here that would storage containers, they would welcome them on their property. I know per people personally if they were allowed to put a storage container on
their property, they'd put one on there tomorrow. That's and we have a lot of towns that have had the same Y >> the same sentiment >> and for every person who would want to put one on their property, their neighbors would not be happy if their neighbor put one on. >> Nope.
>> They're using them as living facilities as well. They they often what starts off as as a good idea um on a very large lot the next thing you know somebody's operating a small business out of there somebody so it
becomes a very slippery slope >> y >> um they aren't subject to building code requirements or building inspections people run electricity um to them so we've we've seen a whole they're not taxable
so we've seen a whole host of issues with shipping containers. Um, they're usually rusted and in disrepair. And >> now we get to the real >> the downsides. In most of our towns, they found that the downsides
usually outweigh those very few upsides. Um, this board has approved some on a temporary basis in the past. um HCI battery was approved for a year or two and they were required to paint theirs to sort of match the building
because it becomes very easily to crap up a site. >> It's a it's a difficult decision, difficult issue. Hey Bob, could you maybe not tonight people want to go home, but since we have this Verizon
matter out in the future, um really talk to the board about how this public utility factors into the decision u to u to to grant the variance for
>> economic cost. >> Yeah. you know, they're they're arguing that they ought to have the they ought to get the variance for the uh for the use of the the seat containers because of the public utility. >> Yeah. I mean, if we can talk maybe talk
about that uh when it comes up again or or if if if it comes to mind between now and then talk about it. I >> mean, we've had those discussions before with the cell towers, but it's a long time ago. But like Scott said, we've already had
we've already given approval for somebody to use containers that's not a utility for two years >> temporary. >> Temporary. Yeah. >> So that person's got to come back to us >> or or build the building. >> Yeah. >> Is the battery the battery company um
right across from CVS. >> Yep. >> Building. Nice building. And they painted them army green or something like that. And when they no longer needed them, they took them away. >> Yeah. >> Rick, just Rick, just to let you know
that in our ordinance, it's actually under the code enforcement officer, is that they are permitted on a residential lot for four months only, but there's conditions with that that there is either like a fire or there's water
damage to houses or they're renovating it as such. They have to get a permit with me. I do keep we've had them. We have it right now is and then they're good for four months. At that point at usually about three and a half months, I
will send them a notice and remind them that they are due to remove that in the four months. And if they don't, there's two choices. Either one, there's a violation notice, I should say three, remove it or they have the right to seek relief for a longer period of time. And
I believe that comes with the township committee can approve that for a long period of time. >> Kathy, doesn't does the ordinance have uh size limitations on the container? >> I'm sorry. >> Does the ordinance have a size limitation on the container? The I mean the ones that we're talking about with
Verizon, they're 40 foot long trailer truck length. >> No, it doesn't. Um we this ordinance has been in place for a long time and then when pods became popular the pod ordinance was added to that. Um, but
there's conditions. I mean, it's a really good ordinance, I think, that is enforceable under myself or the code enforcement officer. Um, that allows us to make sure that the conditions are met for setbacks, hard surfaces,
long periods of time and due to the conditions and the reasons for that. Um, but no, they really don't give a size itself. So, and and I don't necessarily think that you have to do that because the
time frame itself really is our enforcement end and because of the reason that why most people if and again in 23 years I don't get a lot of them but they use them for uh exceptional cases where if there's a fire or there's a flood in the house or
something like that you don't get the average person that just depends to put one on their property. >> And that's 320 ft in 8x40. That's the largest standard shipping container for overseas shipping and tractor trailer uh and rail transport. That's only twice
the size of a permitted shed of 164 square feet. So it on that temporary basis, it's an imposition for the neighbors potentially, but somebody's house burned or they're having an issue that that's that's what
we deal with as neighbors. Again, the ordinances, as long as they are structured good in regards to time frames, locations, things like that under enforcement, it makes our job easier that if those criterias are there and people don't follow them, that
allows us to enforce a violation notic. We had a lot of discussion about tires stored outside. Is there I can see poles, they need to be stored outside of size or whatever. Is there any reason not to store tires inside? Is there >> Right. >> Well, who has more authority over us
with tires is my fire official >> because he has issues that he has to go to in the industrial park. Um he recently went there probably about four or five months ago into one of our problem children and um he can cite them. His and his fines are hefty. His
enforcement is a lot stronger than literally any of us here. But our enforcement is let's talk hypothetically and not about any particular yeah application. >> This board if somebody is requesting a use variant and wants to store tires or
transmissions or anything outside you have the right to say no those are things that are required to be stored inside. >> I just was wondering if there's any reason why a tire couldn't >> It's really not good practice to store tires outside. They get broken down by UV light, everything else. Like fires really shouldn't
>> be stored outside. So >> all right. So there's no good reason why they couldn't be inside. >> No. >> Okay. >> And some fire folks don't want them outside up against the building because if they do catch fire, >> they go and then you've got a problem with
>> with the building. >> Well, that's one of the biggest fire officials is the location of these towers. And against the building, like Scott said, is a major no. These are not against These are proposed uh not against the building. >> What's that?
>> I think they are right against the building, >> are they? >> Were they they weren't listed on the the plan, were they? Where they were? >> Oh, they were listed where they >> at the bottom right corner of the of plans of the building.
>> All right. Um motion to adjurnn. >> So move. >> Second. >> Second. All in favor? I >> opposed. Hearing none. We're >> all right. Thank you everyone. Next time >> he said second that second that
>> I did. >> Janice, I thought >> no matter >> the mayor >> motion. >> I know.