They don't they don't want you to know how long you've been there. Something different, right? All right. Um, I'm Tom McKay, the chairman. The Hannesport Township Joint Land Use Board special meeting is called
to order for June 25, 2025. Can we have a pledge of allegiance or flag salute to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible
with liberty and justice for all. All right. For those in the audience um before we get to that I want to ask the sunshine law be read. Notice on this meeting published in accordance with the open public meetings act. Thank you. And can we have a roll call?
Mrs. Tardy, present. Mr. Novarita here. Mrs. Lein here. Mayor Gilmore here. Mr. Chochi here. Mr. R. Murphy here. Mr. C. Murphy absent. Miss
Costco here. Mr. Holden here. Mr. Mai here. And Mr. McKay here. All right. Tonight, uh we we have for this special meeting uh one item for
uh for business and um that is the the public hearing to consider uh the recently drafted housing element and fair share plan
uh to satisfy the township's affordable housing obligation. under law. Um and then the other question will be uh if we adopt it uh question will be
recommending it to the township committee for adoption. So we have only one witness tonight uh who's an expert in the areas involved
housing element fair share planning and the related case law the related rules and regulations. So, I I will call on uh our expert witness in a moment, but first I would
ask our uh solicitor Bob Kingsbury to give us just a real nice outline of the legal issues that brought us here today. Sure. This is
something that is mandated by New Jersey law and the court system that every municip municipality must have a fair share of affordable housing available
and it must be incorporated into the master plan which requires a housing element and an affordable housing plan And we are here tonight to have Leah present that plan that she has prepared.
Uh if a municipality doesn't have such a plan subject to being sued by builders as having exclusionary zoning. So we are up against the deadline for doing this. I think I believe the court
mandates that this be done by June 30th. So that's why we're having a special meeting tonight and uh Leah Brutder is your affordable housing consultant and export expert and she will present the
plan and at the end of that uh if you find it acceptable you adopt this resolution that has been prepared and then it will go on to the governing body. Thank you Mr. Kingsbury. Um, next
I'd like to introduce uh our uh consultant and expert witness on the topic at hand, Leah Fury Brutder. Um, thank you for coming to the podium. Yes, I'd like to stand. Great. Um, I think
it's appropriate if you would be sworn. Absolutely. Yes. You swear or affirm the testimony you give tonight to be the truthful truth. Nothing different. I do. All right. Um the housing element and fair share plan fourth round uh is has
been prepared by you for presentation to this board and ultimately to township committee. Is that correct? That is correct. All right. We have marked it for your reference as exhibit A1. Uh should we have other exhibits they
can be A2 34. Okay. Etc. And if not we'll just deal with it with A1. Um, could I ask you first to educate everyone on your background and expertise before you get into the substance of your report? Certainly. So, good evening everyone. Again, my name is
Leah Fury Brutder. Um, I am a planner licensed in the state of New Jersey and an um also a member of the American Institute of Certified Planners. Um, my office is in Medford. Um, I've been practicing planning for um 25 years. um have been licensed for 20 and um I have
worked in many towns um around southern New Jersey. I just this is my first year working with Hannesport um as myself, LFB Land Planning. Um in fact, I did work with Hannesport many years ago when Rick Reagan was your planner. Um I worked for Rick Reagan in 2001 to
2004ish. Um so I h I had some familiarity with Hannesport um from that experience. Um, but this is my first year um back with you guys and um but I work for many towns. Um here I'm just the affordable housing planner. I don't say just it's a
lot of work this year but um you know I'm here for affordable housing. Um and I you know I've been communicating with your township planner Scott Taylor. Um but in many other municipalities I am the township planner um or I am the um board planner. So right now in
Burlington County I work for Lumberton, Springfield, Chesterfield. Um I also work for Haden Heights in Stratford in Camden County as well as Berlin Township, Carese Point in Salem County. So I have quite a range of municipal clients. Now I served as Eveam
Townships planner for 15 years. Um so lots of experience in Burlington County. I live in Medford Lakes, so Burlington County is my home. Um, and I've also testified uh before 60ish municipalities mostly in southern and central New
Jersey. In putting this uh fair share plan housing element together, was there a what I'll call a subcommittee that was assembled to uh assist you in in in ways that were
helpful? Yes. So what we did was when we really toward the end of 2024, we knew this was coming. So we started to prepare um and you know there was some transition between your um former affordable housing planner who just is
now doing administrative agent work for the township. So we just transitioned some um I kind of got caught up to speed on the status of your affordable housing compliance. And then we formed at the beginning of this year um we formed uh a subcommittee and the subcommittee consisted of two members of the planning
board, two members of township committee and then some township professionals. So this enabled us to communicate about the obligations um you know where the township sta stood on everything and really start to vet ideas for compliance because as you know and I'll get into it
shortly the document itself is pretty large but in terms of what we in the end really needed to policywise figure out was how are we going to comply with this new number and we needed some collaboration on that. So we vetted ideas, you know, brainstormed, um, you
know, I did some we would vet get an idea, then I would do some homework and come back to the town the subcommittee. So it really was a collaborative process. Thank you. Uh, would you um would you summarize your report and its conclusions and findings? Okay. Um, all right. So as has been indicated, the
housing element and fair share plan is an element of the master plan. So this is jurisdiction of the planning board. Um, it's a policy document. So, it's providing essentially providing the intent and direction for how you're going to in addition to the housing element which I'll outline shortly, the
fair share plan provides direction on how the township will comply with its fair share obligations and those require uh land use decisions. So, that's why it's part of the master plan. Uh in order to implement the housing element and fair share plan, you'll need township committee to take action,
whether it's ordinances to um change zoning or resolutions to um endorse a new um affordable housing trust fund spending plan. You also will have possible in our in this case redevelopment plan amendments. So there's a lot the township committee
will have to do uh but they'll be using this document as a guide for their next steps. Um, so I'll first say that the Fair Housing Act was amended, and this is legislation at the state level, was
amended in March of 2024. And that outlined the new process for affordable housing compliance. And it, as complicated as it is, it was meant to simplify and streamline the process. Um because anybody who's been on the board
for some time know or has even read the local newspapers knows that for the last 50 years there's been ongoing litigation legislation, court deci court cases um and a lot of uncertainty while all while
municipalities have been uh required to comply if they want to remain protected from builder's remedy litigation since the 1980s. um the directions haven't been all that clear in the last 25 years. So um this
legislation is intended to clarify. Um so the Fair Housing Act was amended. Um and then there was an administrative directive that came from the court from the new program which is where we are going to submit this plan for review and it outlined the requirements for the
plan. Um so the plan itself the first 30 well in the beginning it starts off with some judicial and legislative background. These are um at the state level essentially background on what
decisions have shaped the affordable housing landscape and mandates in New Jersey. So anyone interested in that whole background it is included in summary form in the report. Um and then we go it goes on to um Hannesport's efforts to comply and the township's
efforts to comply go back to the 19 early 1990s. So that is outlined as well. Then we get into the housing element portion and the housing element portion of the report um is in response to the
requirements of the Fair Housing Act. It requires a review of demographics, population, households, um housing types, income of the resident population, employment of the resident population, as well as how many jobs are actually in the township. Um and then there are
projections for housing and employment over the next 10 years. And then it also requires that we outline what lands are appropriate, what types of lands might be appropriate in the town for consideration for the production of affordable housing. Um and we also have to indicate how our proposals are
consistent with the state plan. So before I get into the house the fair share plan itself on that front uh for anyone who wants to look at the report this is on page 34. Um, as as you may or may not know, Hannesport is basically split into two
very distinct areas. And I'm sure even if you didn't know it from a state plan perspective, it's obvious, right? You have the northern portion of the township, which is in planning area 2, the suburban planning area, kind of centered around Route 38. Um, and you've got a lot of development in that area of
both commercial and residential development. You have, um, transportation arteries. You have sewer service. You're in the sewer service area. you have water service. Then you have the southern part of the municipality which is smaller. Um but that area is in planning area 4 which is
the rural planning area. It is there are still farms there. The residential density is low. You do not have sewer service um and people have wells. So we've got those two areas. So clearly it makes sense to focus any higher density residential development within the more
northern portion um which would be consistent with the state plan and consistent with Hannesport's longstanding planning objectives. Um and that's what this plan does. So let's move to the fair share plan itself that begins on page 36.
Um the township's cumulative affordable housing obligation consists of four components and they've acrewed since the first round. So if you recall we're in the fourth round of affordable housing now. Uh the first round started in 1987 and
the second so it was 1987 to 1993 and then the second round it was six-year cycle 1994 to 1999 or 93 to9 at some point those got consolidated. So we call those the prior round that consists of first and second round but
it's now 12 years 87 to 99 and that's called the prior round. So we have a prior round obligation, a third round obligation and a fourth round obligation. Um the present need is also
referred to as rehabilitation share and that's calculated um using information from the census and it is intended to reflect the number of deficient housing units in the municipality that are occupied by low and moderate income households that um may be in need of
repair. So in Hannesport it's zero. So, we don't that may or may not be actually true, but it's zero per the um calculations by DCA. So, we accept that and the township doesn't have to worry about that at this time. DCA being the Department of Community Affairs,
correct? Thank you. Sorry. Yes. Stop me if I acronym. I will. Thank you. Can we ask questions at the end? Could uh could we hold questions at the end? Save them. Save
them up. Make a note of it. Yeah. Okay. Um Okay. So, we have those um the prior round 150 units, the third round 197 units, and the fourth round 174. Oh, sorry, just 74.
That would be a problem because I we'd be missing 100. Um okay. So, the the legislation requires us to look back to the prior rounds. Um this is required by the new Fair Housing Act. We have to look back and indicate how the township is doing, what progress
has been made, and whether any proposals that have been set forth that have not yet come to fruition um make sure that they're still offering a realistic opportunity for the development of this housing. Um so it's interesting because in Hannesport's case, the township
entered their third round settlement um only less than two years ago. So, the township is making a lot of progress, but they're not all they haven't all come to fruition yet because it hasn't been very long. So, we'll circle back to that shortly, but we will start with the
prior round obligation. I just wanted to review for you how that was satisfied. Um, and that obligation was 150. Um, and on page 38 there is a table that outlines the compliance. Um, so I haven't modified this at I just
left it as it was. Um, and this is, you'll see that it only totals 146. Um, but it's made up for later. I don't know why that was calculated that way because there's plenty of units that could have been put here to comply, but either way, it's there's a four unit
deficiency, but it's made up for in the third round. So, we have 56 units at Davenport Village that were completed in 2001. Um, you have the senior units at Glenn at Mason's Creek. 35 of them are counted and uh there were actually 39 in
total. So those other four will show up later. And then the Ark of Burlington County has two supportive and special needs homes in town and those have four bedrooms each for supportive and special needs. The bedroom is the unit. Then um
there are two market to affordable units and they are just one each. Um and then there was an RCA which is a regional contribution agreement with Mount Holly. Um this was a permitted compliance mechanism in the prior round and it was
essentially that a town that really needed the funds for affordable housing for rehabilitation or um you know some other project they had planned um there was an ability for another for a town to send some of their obligation to that town. um that's no longer allowed after
2008, but it was permitted previously and Hannesport took advantage of it for seven units. And then we had 38 bonus credits. So that gets you to 146 in the third round. Um there was a settlement agreement that was actually
just around two years ago, July 13th, 2023, that set the township's third round perspective need at 197. and that the township received a judgment of compliance um and the town set about
implementing that plan. In reviewing that, there were some items that were not completed yet in that plan. And in reviewing for the fourth round uh and collaborating with the subcommittee, it came to my attention that there was
some uh alternative calculation that could be done that would be to the township's advantage. So this table on page 39 is the revised calculation. As an appendix, we've included what was in the third round plan previously. So there can be reference if there's
questions when we submit this. It's easy to go back and forth and see what was changed. Um nothing that's underway was removed by any means. What was removed was an accessory apartment accessory apartment program that had been proposed
for nine units. And that essentially um you set up a zoning that allows that if you have a lot of a certain size, you could a property owner could build a second unit smaller on their property um and then they would have to rent it to a lower moderate income household. That
was in the plan. Um one, the town had to provide funding for it. And two, um our experience is that it's very difficult to implement. Most people who want to build a second unit on their home on their property would rather rent it to their uh family member or a family
friend or something, they don't want to have to put it into this system with a lottery and you know and and the the tenants are vetted. I just want to be clear about that. There's a extensive process for vetting and making sure that the person is a clear background and can
pay. But, you know, the fact of the matter is if you're building a unit over your garage, typically people don't want to have to enter that process. So, I've found it really difficult to implement. Um, so when we realize we could recalculate then and uh take advantage
of removing that, we've done it. Um, so here's what the third round now entails. Walters Cornerstone at Hannesport, which is currently under construction, that's 72 units, and there will be 49 bonus credits.
Davenport Village expansion, which is complete, um added 16 family units. Um Randolph Senior, which is on the south side of Marne Highway, is has been approved for funding, but not yet constructed, and that's a senior rental,
and we have 32 units counting here. Um the total project has 70 units but as you may know there are limits on how many senior units can be in the plan. So only 25% of the obligation can be senior. So of
25% of 197 is 49. So our maximum number of senior units is 49. Um we already have which I'll was get to in a second but the Glenn at Mason's Creek we've got 17 units counted from there. So, we're adding it up to get to our 49 and the
remainder at Randolph Senior will go forward to the fourth round and fifth. Um, so, okay. So, going back, we have Glenn at Mason's Creek. Four extra units got to carry forward that were never counted in the prior round and then 13
of them actually got have been extended so we can recount them. So, that's uh 17 units. Then Habitat for Humanity did um a single unit. You have Hannes mobile home park. There will be
there's an expansion happening there and three of the units will be affordable. And then we have two supportive and special needs proposals. One of them is a little further along and this is um at block 72 lot 6 which is um a sing
basically a vacant single lot and um the township is working with a developer who will build a four-bedroom home for um adults with disabilities and that will uh get four credits. And then there is a proposal for supportive housing um at
Martin Highway and the Mount Holly bypass. That's the vacant lot that has a um it's a small vacant lot next to a the cemetery and it has a billboard on it, otherwise undeveloped. And the proposal here is to zone that to permit supportive and special needs housing and
four it would potentially and hopefully be eight units and four of them would go to the third round and the other four will go to the fourth. Um, and that leaves the market to affordable housing program, which we have three units left that are necessary. And again, the
township committed to this previously. Um, it previously committed to five and we were able to reduce it to three. It does require funding from the affordable housing trust fund. And if we are able to get extra units, a few extra units from our proposals that we'll talk about
for the fourth round, we can potentially eliminate this effort. So, we'll but we'll keep track of that and see how it works out. So, there you have it. Your 152 units, 49 bonus credits totaling 201, which is four more than 197 to make
up those four that were lacking. All right. And then lastly, we go to the fourth round. So, the fourth round number is 74. You may wonder how the uh the 74 was arrived at. Um the DCA, Department of Community Affairs, in the in the legislation is required to
calculate the uh prospective need obligations for municipalities and it starts with a statewide affordable housing need. Um and then that need is allocated to the regions. Um there are six regions and Hannesport is in region five. So that's Burlington, Camden, and
Gloucester counties. Um and then once it's allocated to the region, there's a formula for allocating it to the municipalities. The not to get too deep into the weeds of the methodology, but just so you know how the number generally was arrived at, DCA did its calculation and the number
was 77 for Hannesport. When we looked at the three factors that go into the calculation, there are three primary factors. One is um vacant land, land capacity basically. One is in the income capacity factor and one is the
non-residential valuation factor. I'll go backwards. The non-residential valuation factor is measures the change in non-residential value in the town. So it's meant to say how much job growth has there been in the municipality which points to a need for affordable housing because there's more people working
there. Um there has been some non-residential growth in Hannesport. So some of the number comes from that. Um the income capacity factor looks at the difference in the average household income in Hannesport compared to the lowest household income in the region
which is in Camden City. And there's a very big disparity between the average household income in Camden City which is something 30ome thousand and what it is in Hannesport which is um over a 100,000. So that's where a lot of the um
also some of the obligation comes from. And then lastly is the land capacity factor. The first two it's data that we couldn't really argue with the se the last one. Um, we looked at the vacant land layer that the Department of
Community Affairs put together and we found that they had counted land that was owned by the county, part of the state park, few different things, you know, the backyard of someone's house, you know, a couple and it was we so we just re-evaluated it and provided our
own number for vacant land and proposed an adjustment based on that. However, of course, we weren't the only town to do that. Um and so when it came down to it, the township proposed um that the number would be 66 and we had to then go to mediation
because fair share housing center oh no the New Jersey Builders Association challenged our number. So we went to mediation and um came out with 74. So that's where it's at 74.
How do we meet the 74? Uh fortunately Randolph senior and this is the table on page 41. Randolph senior um had there's extra units there and in the fourth round we can do 30% of actual units constructed as senior. So that's 17.
Then um the subcommittee looked at a variety of potential locations essentially decided that the best way to comply is through a 100% affordable housing site which is what uh Walters is doing at Cornerstone or what Ingramman is doing at Randolph. And the reason for
that is that it's compact. It um you get the affordable housing without the need for the market rate housing that goes with it in inclusionary. Um, so in inclusion area, if you were going to build 20 affordable units, you need a 100 actual units because it's a 20% set
aside. When you do 100%, the town has to kick in support for the project, but it's also more efficient, more compact, and less land consumptive. So, we looked at opportunities um and landed on the Hitco site, which is a contaminated site
that's been um in the process of being cleaned up for 20 years. 20 years at least. Um nearing the end, yeah, nearing the end of its cleanup. Um and then there are a couple of lots, not a couple, several lots um
right next to it that are potentially available in order to enlarge the site. So the idea here with the Hitco site is to for the town which already owns Hitco to buy the adjacent three lots to
enlarge the total area to about 3. Hold on. 3 point something acres and okay 3.34 acres and this would enable um a 100% affordable housing development on this site. Um it may not happen right away
but we believe that it's a viable opportunity. We've spoken to affordable housing developers who are interested in pursuing it with the township. Um they believe that it would be really competitive for financing and uh we did like a quick back of the napkin sketch
and we believe it could fit 54 units, possibly more, but 54 is kind of like the goal that we were shooting for because we know that that's enough for an affordable housing developer to want to do it and they can get funding for a number like that. Just for the benefit
of the board and any public listing, where is the Hitco site? It's at That's a good question. Yes, it is at um Creek Road and Route 38 and it's on the south side of Route 38 and the east side of Creek Road, generally speaking,
across from the Wolfington school bus property and yes, and a little further east perhaps. Okay. Um Okay. Now, uh I got ahead of myself. The last compliance mechanism on the table is the supportive housing site at Martin Highway and the
bypass that I mentioned previously and that would be the other four units at that site. Um there will be some bonus credits available here because especially for the 100% affordable project if a if a town puts in at least 3% of the total
cost of the project then bonus credits are available one for one. So it's a good and you can get up to 25% of the obligation as bonus credits. So the town already owns Hitco site has put a lot of money into it. So that will be a contribution. If the town buys these
other adjacent lots from using money from the affordable housing trust fund that is a contribution. So we believe the bonus credits will be available. Um, there are a few I outlined on page 42 the potential bonus credits available. Again, we can only get up to
25% of our obligation as bonus credits. In our case, 18. So, I think we'll max it out with the HITCO site, but there I just provided here the other ones that could be available if that didn't work out for some reason.
So then on page 42 um I pro provide some additional information about the uh block 24.02 lot 1204 which is Mar highway and Mount Holly bypass. When you add a site into the plan that hasn't yet come to fruition or doesn't yet have
approvals, you've got to provide a site suitability analysis which basically demonstrates that the site is suitable for affordable housing and can be developed with affordable housing. Um so you have your site suitability analysis here. Um and then similarly with the HITCO and
adjacent lots this is on page 44. Um the block is block 108 lots 10 1.023 3.01 4.05 and 4.06. Those are owned by the township already. And then block 108 lots 1 1.01 and 4.03 are the lots that
the township would like to buy. Similarly, I have there's an outline here of what would be proposed um a site suitability analysis and then for municipally sponsored affordable projects, we also need to outline a few additional bits of
information related um to comply with the council on affordable housing rules that still apply and that is that we have site control or can get site control um that there is an administrative entity to administer this site.
that the town can get adequate funding and a construction schedule. Now, as you know, we're on a compressed timeline here. You've got to have this done by June 30th. So, there's only so much the town could do in this time. I think the town's done a really good job in trying to advance this and
demonstrate that it's viable, but we don't have all that information yet. As we get it, we'll supplement, and I I believe that's the best you can do at this point. And then um just a few more things. The there number four on page 47. This is
more just a point of information. Um as I mentioned there are limits on the number of senior units that can be counted and we've maxed it out but at uh the Glenn at Mason's Creek
more units may come up for extension. So, in that case, the town should bank those uh like seize that seize that opportunity if possible. Um a payment has to be made to those individuals. It's a relatively small $10,000. I think we think it'll be $10,000 payment, but
if they extend their controls, so it remains an affordable unit, you'll get credits. You can count those credits in the fifth round. So, easy enough. Um and then the end of the plan just has some additional information about the affordable housing trust fund um and the
efforts that the town will make to ensure that these uh units are viable and that they'll be monitoring as required by the law. Um we will be preparing a new affordable housing spending plan. So as you know the town has a trust fund and the that the money
that comes into the affordable housing trust fund has to be spent on affordable housing. Um and we the money comes in from residential development that is not inclusionary and commercial development. So with the development that has been happening in Hannesport, there is some
money in the trust fund. A spending plan had been prepared, but some of the proposals have been modified. So we'll be fixing that up. Um and that'll be forthcoming in the next couple months. Um and that really is it. Um there are
maps that kind of depict some of the things I talked about related to the state planning areas and the sewer service area, but the most um interesting one is map two, which has the whole town. And when I look at this, it makes me want to um use my fingers and like scan, you know, zoom in on it
because it's very tiny, but we can you can all have the PDF of this um and that way you can zoom in on it if you wish. But it shows you where all the affordable housing sites are located. Although Davenport is missing so I need to add that. I realized it this morning.
So that is it in a nutshell. I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Let's do members of the board first questions. We'll go around the table. So start. Cool. Thank you. Um
he talks about the uh uh income 30% um less a median. What is the median? So we're doing a calculation on it. Doesn't say what the number is. Oh, that's a good point. Um hold on. Let me see if I can locate that real quick. What page
are what page are you on again? Excuse me. What page are you on? Number eight. Page eight. Page eight. Thank you. Uh towards the top, the first pool up top. Is that the chart that they issue every year? Yeah. And it's in here. Um I just
have to find where I put it. Here it is. 24. No. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So on page 24 or 25 rather table 14 it has the uh 2025 region 5 income limits limits by household size. So here
you can see per the household size what income qualifies as moderate low and very low. I didn't add in what median is but moderate is 80% of median. 80% of you mean it. Got it. So I could do the ma
back into that math and Yeah. Got it. Yeah. No problem. Okay. Um I have a couple more. Oh, go ahead. That's what I'm here for. Um on page 31 it talks about there's enough
jobs for 81% of the residents. That to me was just an alarming number. I was expecting a higher number. Oh. Um and I'm wondering all these people coming in where are they going to have jobs? Not it's not your thing but it was just a oh
that don't sound good. Well the idea is that the people who are coming in are already here or in the region and that they can't find housing that they can afford. So for the most part
people who enter into affordable housing are employed. So they're just trying to find housing that they can afford. So, it's really just like shifting the balance of where people are. Maybe they can live closer to their work. Maybe they work here already and they could come work live closer. Uh, you know, I
can't say for sure, but that's the idea. Yeah. It seemed like if the uh the township median is 100,000 or more, we're looking at a table says like 28,000 is very low. Where are they going to work? I don't
know. Just just a thought. Um, page 33. Hold on one second. Um, let that go. 41. Page 41. Uh that's the the uh the table that you have for
um the prospective places to u site affordable housing. Um I assume at some point we're going to talk about a resolution that will approve whatever we have here. Um just out of curiosity if something
better comes up are we locked into this or can modifications be made? Well, it is the town's prerogative to make modifications. The only but is if something is already initiated,
meaning, you know, if a developer already has an approval, then you can't take it back. But if right if if you're if we're pursuing one of these avenues and it turns out that it's it becomes clear that it's not going to offer a realistic opportunity or there's a
better one um the town can rework the plan and but you would have to have another hearing and you know do the whole process again right a modification is possible. Yes. Okay. Um, thank you. And oh, uh, just ask, um, when you were
talking about how you put together this chart, uh, there was a a a little point made about, um, existing area, uh, existing homes or whatever you want to call them. Mhm. Um
from my um my viewpoint, which is not very good, there seem to be quite a few homes that are in a territory of being in this would fit in here. There's even abandoned homes.
Are they part of the calculation or can they be or should they be? Yeah, I mean uh I didn't get into it since your number is technically zero, but what I've said to the other towns that I've presented to recently is that the the present need which is supposed to reflect people living in the town in a
potentially deficient unit and potent and with moderate lower moderate income households. Um it's used it's calculated using proxies and the proxies are what's what the what's available in the census data. It's homes that are lacking a
kitchen, a complete kitchen, homes that are lacking complete plumbing, and homes that are more than 50 years old and crowded. And that means more than one individual per room in the house. Not bedroom, but like room in the house, right? So
that turned up zero for Hannesport. Lumberton's was 37. I don't It's like I don't know how if it makes any sense. And frankly, um, towns that did get a number, none of them can figure out where there's a house without a kitchen
or a plumbing in today's world. So I don't I don't think the proxies are very good. But in our case, so there may So my point is there very well may be deficient housing units that need repair, but the number here is zero. So
for the purpose of this plan, we don't have to really address it. Yeah. I'm wondering if like the abandoned properties and the ones that are that could possibly fit into this category, it would make that contribution a lot smaller, which is financially beneficial to the township. Oh, you're saying like
how units that could be made affordable. I see what you're saying. Either are currently that would meet the definition. Uhhuh. Or could be. Okay. There seems to be there's a number of those around the township, right? And again, that's just me just driving around and looking. Right. So, in order
to do something like that, that's the market to affordable program that's um listed for round three, which is there's a unit um it's not deed restricted. And of course, in order for it to count, it has to be deed restricted. So, the town could purchase the unit or work together
with the owner, make it deed restricted, um and do that usually by paying or putting some money into the property. So, that is a possibility. It's just that it's a lot of work for the town, so we didn't rely upon it except for the three units.
Might be the work might be worth the the cost in my opinion because it looks like there's going to be a lot of money. Mhm. Thank you. That's all I have. Thank you. Okay. Other questions? So, if I can speak to that, the town did make those
attempts. Um, we tried to with the owner of the four units on Rancco Avenue. Uh, we tried to bring him to the table and and make them affordable. They were he it was clear his tenants would fall under low or moderate. Um but
unfortunately the decision lies with the owner of the property and is do are they willing to deed restrict that property and also um participate in the annual process of reertifying their tenants and making sure they're they continue to be
qualified because in rentals you have to do that every year. So there's a lot to it on the back end. Um but we we have we also looked at the been talking about the property on Maine that succumbed to a fire. um we're looking at that in terms of the lean holder um and that
person foreclosing on it and us exploring potentially buying that property or encumbering that property. So we do we do make those attempts um and I agree with you it is absolutely worth capturing what's out there but there's a lot of other parts parts to that it's not all under our control. Um
you had made a comment Leah about you receive um better funding or there needs to be you know municipal participation in that and you said funds does HTSRF funds account for that allocation by the state because the HITO property the town hasn't really invested
any of its own dollars into that we've received probably well over a million dollars in HDSRF funds for for that uh remedi I'm just curious if even to acquire it. Oh, we we acquired it through foreclosure.
H tax foreclosure. We'll have to look into it a little. Yeah. And it's also we're going to potentially amend our BDA designation and include that into it. So that might actually give us additional benefit. Yeah. Money for the story. Um so I would say we would try try to angle
it that way. But if Well, also the town may have to buy those adjacent properties. True. So that'll go to it. and if if necessary maybe some addition we would have to figure out what's the threshold to get the bonus credits and then potentially contribute from the trust fund.
Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Finish Paul you uh up here at the table anyone? Um, so the um affordables at the Glenn as they come
available uh I know of one that has just become available recently that's not included in this figure. So does that those extra credits go to the next round or they could be taken off of if something in
here doesn't work out? Yeah, it has to go to the next round only because we maxed out on seniors seniors. But um we did meet recently with uh CGP&H who administers to talk about how to most effectively capture those as they come up.
Yeah. So like one somebody they said there were two that were interested in selling in the short term. We're already working on one with the 10,000 contribution now. Yeah. So we're Yeah. And I know of another one that somebody just passed, but you know, um, it it's going to continue to happen, right? You
know, we're at that point with Yeah, there's So, I think 13 have been extended. A few won't can't because of some administrative thing like they were extended too early or something like that, but apparently there is a list that can still be extended and that would be ideal. Yeah. So, if they're
living in a house that's already been extended, does anything happen or nothing happens until they go to sell it? If it's extended, that just means that when it sells, it sells for the affordable price. It just means it'll forever be But but they extended it and and you
haven't reached the end of the extension, it sells for the affordable. If it has reached the end, then we go through the whole process again. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. have a couple. Um, so the directive number 14-24,
uh, requirements on 13, it talks about, um, revealing any sites that were looked at and rejected, but I didn't see I just as a sentence it says sites were avail, right? Were there any sites that were looked at and rejected or Well, uh,
that's a good question. And I think the uh intent really is if a developer comes forward and offers something. So in some towns like I would have a land owner that came forward and said I would like to be part of your plan. Um here's where my land is and we evaluated it and like
rejected their proposal. Then you have to identify that. Okay. In the in this case we didn't actually have anyone that came forward and said like you know here I am. So, we just evaluated what we brainstormed and I don't we didn't really think it was necessary to like put it all out there. Okay. But we did
look look at um main avenue area where there's kind of like some desperate ownership but maybe some opportunity there. We looked through that and thought about it and then yeah, Paulo was mentioning Yeah. You know, I'm that one. And um we also looked at the
frontage of the creek turn site along Route 38, but that wasn't really viable given um the land area and what the town really wants to do there. So we that's the process we did, but there was no developer that's going to look at this and say, "Hey, you left out my proposal." Yeah. Okay, I got that. Um
and then um I I I know we have to pass this through and I think there's future looking at things. My my only concern about the one on Mar Highway and um the bypass um is just the traffic. Um and I
don't know if we have any control, but currently when you're turning right on to 537 from the bypass right by that development, it's a yield, not even a stop. Yeah. And people will be coming out of there. So I don't know when that gets addressed, but it's just um Yeah,
you're right. the thing that makes that site, especially if you're putting, you know, lower income housing or even I think it was proposed for supportive and special needs. Yeah. Putting that in such a busy area and even developing so close to 38, I do have concerns, but I
think when we look at the the site plans, I guess that would be it. Um and then um I had a question um when when we're talking about um on page 45 I think um
where we're developing on HITCO and it talked about we need um 54 proposed units but then it talks about the um uh where is it? Oh, I put up to 62. Up to 62. I was just curious about that. Yeah, I thought
I I was thinking about the way the funding works and how many units can typically get funded. Like if they're going in and it fits on a site, they might ask, could we do up to could we do a few more? And this isn't going to get any easier for Hannesport, like trying
to find sites. So, if they could do a few more and and keep in mind this one, the development of this is going to be many years in the future. So, that was my thinking. If it was zoned for a few more and they could get more, maybe it would be good. Okay, that answers that.
And then going through it, there were some typos, some problems with tables. I don't know how much you pulled through of this or I fixed many of them. So, thank you for But I if you want to email them to me or scan what you have, if you wrote on it and you want to send it through a scanner or just give it to me at the end of the meeting. Yeah, there's
a couple. I'll make sure they're all fixed. You know, like for example, the one was uh table 24 on page 33. uh things are divided by 10, but 11 years are actually in that table. Oh, okay. Good point. But I can send you all of
those. Those are just Yeah, I appreciate it. An editor. Thank you. Sure. Other members of the board with questions? Hearing none, seeing no hands raised. Oh, I have one. Oh, I'm sorry. I did not mean to exclude you. That was was out of
sight but not out of mind. I could see her. Don't worry. Um, first of all, I'd like to say uh thank you to Leah. She did a great job. So, it was nice to have you here presenting that. Leah, thank you. Thank you. Um, my only concern was one that Janice had just mentioned about the supportive housing on Martin Highway
and the bypass. I think that um the safety issue is going to be a concern for me and again I would like to see you know once the plans advance further uh with the planner and how everything's going to be addressed over there but otherwise I'm
good with everything. Thank you. Thanks very much. if um on that lot, this uh triangle lot at Martin Highway, the bypass just so we just walk through what would happen if it were to be uh determined that it that
it that it could work as a site and you had a developer willing to step in to work the site. um it's going to have to go through a full-sight plan and that would uh deal specifically along with other issues with these safety so-called
safety issues, traffic issues and the like. Is that is that correct? Correct. Mhm. So, the the concern that people do have on that point and and they're valid for sure uh can be addressed and hopefully mitigated through the planning process down the line. Is that correct?
Yes. Yes, that would be the goal. Okay, other members of the board questions. Yeah, I'd like to just I brought it up to us before, Leah, a little bit, but um I mean, just for curiosity, do we do we have an idea of, you know, other
surrounding towns in Burlington County that are at the pace that we're at compared, you know, or are they behind us or are we behind the normal pace in terms of average of meeting rounds? Oh. Um, you're right on you're right on
track, I think. Um, you know, like I said, I work for Lumberton. Um, so I know what's going on there. They did get their round three settlement like a few years before yours, so they've gotten a little bit further, but um, they still have things that are outstanding from round three that have to be that had to
be rolled into round four, kind of like you had. Um and uh yeah, I think most town most growing towns have entered into this process voluntarily so that they could protect themselves from builder remedy litigation and they're
all under this crazy time crunch trying to feel out how to make it work. So I you're right on from my experience right on track. Yeah. Do we know of any towns that um you know I know I know you said there's two avenues that could cause this friction right from the state not
meeting the obligations and then this builders. Mhm. Um but is there any towns that you know of that have dealt with raft from the developers end? Uh yeah, and a lot of them a lot of the ones that dealt with it dealt with it earlier on
and so now they've like been uh pushed into submission, you know, like like Mount Laurel for example, you know, there's a lot of litigation that has happened there over over this. Um and so now they of course participate to try to comply, but um the lawsuits caused, you
know, a lot of housing to be built with a lot of affordable housing mixed in. So Mount Laurel's resistance came more from the developers end and not from the state forcing their weight muscle. Yeah. So, this I apologize for this
being a complex answer, but and Bob feel free to correct me if I'm wrong because I know this is a legal answer, but um during round three, compliance was through the courts and Fair Share Housing Center, which is a nonprofit
organization advocacy organization, was like the one who pushed. So, if a town did not um was non-compliant and a builder hadn't come along, in some cases, Fairshare Housing Center came along and pushed you into trying to comply.
And uh so that was another avenue. At this point with this new way, it's, you know, you go voluntarily or you wait for a builder to come after you. I guess fair share housing centers still could, but it's meant to avoid that. Um but it's the builders that could come after you. And uh yeah, I've seen even
builtout towns that have like literally no land left um but have redevelopment opportunities. They've thought, "Oh, well, we're safe because we're built out. We don't have to do this." Well, a developer comes along and says, "Well, I just bought this old shopping center and I want to build housing on it now. So,
and you didn't comply, so I'll build 200 apartments and I'll make 40 of them affordable or something like that." So, that's what you're trying to You want to control how it happens rather than someone else controlling it. Okay. And if I could if I could add to that, Leela and I attended a the New Jersey Homes
presentation which Troy Singleton is sponsoring. It was his bill. They're traveling all over the state. Um it's a partnership with DCA and the mayor of Palmyra. No, one of the Burlington County towns. Is it Palmyra?
Florence. No, I can't remember. Uh but she Yes. Florence in the Florence area. But she she spoke this was only two weeks ago. She said that she was threatened by a developer because they they wanted to develop and they wanted to preserve the
land and the developers like oh well do you have your affordable housing obligation met because if not you know I'm going to I I can come in and take it. Like there absolutely are developers out there that will hit you with the builder's remedy and it example of it right here in Burlington County just two weeks ago.
I'll let you know which town it was. It's near Florence. Yeah. All right. Any other board questions? All right. I'm going to open it up to public comment now. And that includes a comment or a question. So, if there uh anyone in the audience
here, not online, but here, uh wants to ask a question or make a comment, please raise your hand. I see several people in the audience, but no hands raised. So, we'll close the this portion of public comment and now
we'll go to the online portion. If you do want to ask a question or make a comment, please unmute and we can hear you and take the question. There's no one else on the line other than committeewoman Tory.
Okay. Thank you. All right. Right. Well, then I'll close the um the public comment and um I think it's appropriate now for a vote. Um Mr. Kingsbury um having the benefit of the fair
housing element chair and the litigation history of this did you prepare a uh a draft um resolution ahead of time in anticipation of this meeting? knowing that it needed to be adopted.
I can't wait a month from now. It's going to be adopted tonight. It outlines everything, all the procedures that lead up to this and it adopts the housing element and fair share plan as presented
to you tonight. All right. is everybody I assume everybody uh has uh a copy of the resolution which is a designated uh pre-desated I guess you'd say 2025-20.
Yes. Excuse me for one moment Mr. Kingsberry. Should they uh actually accept the plan first by vote and then move on to the resolution? I'm sorry. Should they accept the plan as presented uh by vote first and then
move on to adopting the resolution? It can be done in one vote. This resolution does accomplishes that. Okay. Yes. At the very end there are three there are three paragraphs that deal with adoption recommendation to the town. Okay. as a
as and request that the town consider to consider adopting the plan and incorporating it into the master plan. So, uh we have the resolution already drafted and uh I'd ask uh for
um a motion to approve same as drafted. A motion to approve the same. You have you're making a motion? Yes. All right. Do I have a second?
Second. I have a second. All right. Roll call. Mr. Holden. Yes. Mrs. Lein? Yes. Mrs. Tory. Mrs. Tory. Is she not hearing?
She's on. Is that a hearing issue? Mrs. Tory, can you hear me? Okay. Do you want to I'll let her. Yeah. Mr. Novarita. Yes. Mayor Gilmore. Yes. Mr. Tracy. Yes. Mr.
R. Murphy. Yes. Miss Costco. Yes. Miss Karen. I don't know. Mr. McCay. Yes. Try again. Mrs. Tory, can you hear me? Uh, yes.
Is that Yes. Uh, to adopt it? I think she was. Yes. Okay. Thank you. All right. Okay. So, the motion carries. Yes. Thanks, everyone. All right. Um, that
concludes the business of the board tonight. Thank you. Uh, can I have a motion to adjurnn? I'll make that motion. The resolution number. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Hearing none, we are ajourned.
Thank you everyone. Thank you. Um, All right. This meeting is called pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings law. Would you all please rise for the flag salute? I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Roll call, please. Committeewoman Evans, yes. Committeeman
Montgomery, yes. Karen, you have to not do that. Not do that. Crickets. Maybe it was crickets. Whatever you're doing, don't do it. Yes.
present. Uh, Deputy Mayor Tory here. Okay. Oh, you're you're lagging, too. Uh, Mayor Gilmore here. Okay. Minutes. Approval of the regular committee minutes of June 12th. Need a motion in a second, please. So, moved.
Second. Committee Montgomery. Yes. Committeewoman Evans. Yes. Committ D. Yes. Mayor uh Deputy Mayor Tory. Yes. And Mayor Gilmore. Yes. Comments from the public on agenda items
only. Comments are limited to five minutes. Anyone in the audience have a comment? Seeing none, anyone online this evening? No. Closing comments. We now have before us resolution
2025-107-6 endorsing the fourth round of housing element and fair share plan and approving the drafts of the zoning ordinance revisions and amendments. Mayor, before you before you entertain this, I would ask that you make a couple of changes to the document that's in
front of you. Okay. On the title, end it after fair share plan and delete and approving draft zoning ordinance revisions and amendments because they are not ready. Okay. On page two
down the bottom, it should simply read, "The township committee hereby endorses the fourth round housing element and fair share plan." And I'll give these changes to Paula.
Okay. Take out all the acknowledgement of existing zoning ordinances, etc. So last whereas on page two whereas the township committee hereby endorses the fourth round housing element and fair share plan. On page three
delete paragraph two completely. Okay. And change three to two and change four to three. All right. So, with those adjustments, can I have a motion and a second,
please? I have a motion. Second. Committeewoman Evans, yes. Committee Deck, yes. Committeeman Montgomery, yes. Deputy Mayor Cordy, yes. And Mayor Gilmore, yes. Then we have resolution 2025-108-6
authorizing the renewal of a liquor license. I need a motion in a second, please. So moved. Second. Committeeman Montgomery, yes. Committeewoman Evans, yes. Committee Deck, yes. Deputy Mayor Tory,
yes. And Mayor Gilmore, yes. We now have comments from the public about anything. Comments are limited to five minutes. Anyone wish to speak? No.
Nothing. And no one's still online. So closing the comments. Comments from the administrator. I have none. Thank you. Thank you. Comments from the solicitor. You know, I just want to commend the the the tax committee and
the planning board. Um Leah mentioned it in her presentation to the planning board about the subcommittee. Uh and Mr. Murphy's here. Mr. McCay was also member. Uh Ken and Andy were on the subcommittee with Paul and I and Leah and I will tell you that I'm special
counsel in two other municipalities uh affordable housing council. um the ability to have those discussions right over the last four months and vet different ideas um was really helpful and and I think
lent a great deal to the process of being able to present to the planning board and to you this document that the planning board adopted earlier this evening and that you've just endorsed. Um, and I also think that
the it makes for a more informed uh decision by both bodies. And so I I just commend you all for earlier in the year making that decision to to appoint that subcommittee. Thank you. That did seem to be the best
way to go about it. Comments from the committee, Miss Evans. Uh, for now I just want to say I went kayaking with John Anderson on Sunday and it was fantastic and I'm so happy that he's going to do it again the fall and I'll reserve everything else for the
next meeting. Thank you. Okay, Mr. Dick. Uh, congratulations to the Hannesport graduates, the RV graduates, especially the ones from Hannesport and enjoy your summer. Happy 4th of July, Mr. Montgomery.
So, I'd also like to congratulate all the Hannesburg graduates and the RV graduates and all those other graduates. Uh um as being part of the subcommittees as um John had just mentioned um I really think it was a great committee. I'm I'm happy to be a part of it. Um it was a
lot of work and the the especially the work that Leah did was just tremendous. That report was just awesome and the work behind it was awesome, but the report just really was super. Um, so I'm happy we're moving forward with this and getting creative and finding ways to
improve Hannesport and making affordable housing um, work um, for all of us. Uh, I'd like to wish everybody happy 4th of July, which also happens to be my wedding anniversary. So I'll wish that for my wife anniversary and Oh, I'm waving. Oh, thank you. Fourth of July.
Oh, Fourth of July. Yes. Thank you. And uh other than that uh God bless Hansport and God bless America whose birthday is soon. Thank you indeed Mrs. Tory. Uh yes I would like to thank um
everybody that worked on this the subcommittee guys did a great job. I would like to thank Leah. She had a great presentation. Um, as I noted before in the camp joint land use board, the only one that spot that I'm a little
concerned about is the corner of course of um the bypass and Martin Highway, but um they have assured me that they're going to look at that very very carefully. So, I'm happy with that. So, with that, I'd like to say happy 4th of July to everybody and um don't forget
that we have a concert in the park on Sunday. Um so, with that, God bless you. God bless America. Thank you. Thank you. So, um there's not much to add. I too know. Well, it it is. I thank all the
volunteers um that help us here in Hannesport. Uh, and I'm grateful for the committee that was formed and was able to get through this um, difficult piece of uh, work that that needed to be
done uh, due to the laws of this state. Uh, and I a big thank to Leah. She she's just fantastic. It's it's it's amazing. And with that, I'd like to Oh, and I too
I thanked everybody on on the Facebook that I could have congratulated all the the kids graduating from high school and junior high and and Hannesport and the kindergartens and the college kids and so onward and upward. Best of luck to
you in the next uh endeavor. So, let's pay some bills. There's a couple. I'd like to make a motion that we pay our bills. Second. Committeeman Montgomery. Yes.
Committeewoman Evans. Yes. Committee. Yes. Deputy Mayor Tory. Yes. And Mayor Gilmore. Yes. I'm sorry. Scared the hell out of me. Executive session. I understand we have an executive session. Yeah. Mayor and members of committee, if you could uh on
number one, I would just change that to potential litigation. Okay. And then two strategies to designed in related to protecting the public safety. Um I would expect an hour. An hour. Mhm. An hour. An hour. We always undershoot
it. We say it's 15 minutes. An hour 30. Um I think it's fair to say there will be no resolutions coming out of it. There will be no formal action taken. And the only action taken will likely be a motion to direct staff to proceed in accordance with whatever that we
discussed in close session. Okay. So therefore, I need a motion on resolution 2025-109-6. So moved. Second. Committeeman Montgomery. Yes. Committeeman Deck. Yes. Committeewoman
Evans. Yes. Deputy Mayor Tory. Yes. And Mayor Gilman. Yes. Okay. All right. Uh Karen, I'll call Should we go in the back room now? I'll call you on my cell phone. Okay.
Yes. Yes. Okay. So, I'm just going to mute this and keep it on, but we're going to go we're going to go into the other room. So, I'll call you. And away we go. And away we go. Huh?