All right, I have 5:30 by my watch, so we'll go ahead and get started. So, we will call this meeting of the Halifax Finance Committee to order. It is 5:30 on the 20th of October of 2025. Um, this meeting of the Halifax Finance Committee is being recorded and will be
posted to Area 58 Community Access Channel. Agenda items may be taken out of order for time management considerations. Committee members in attendance on the call are Cheryl Burke, Mike Bennett, Frank Johnston, EJ Bryan, Mike Reignetta, Ron Hemingway, Rod
Hemingway, and myself. Um, so thanks everybody for joining. I hope you all had a uh good uh a good Sunday since we were all at the training session with the AFTC on Saturday. Um we don't I
don't believe we have any minutes to be reviewed for this specific call. So, we will just go right by that that agenda item and move into agenda item number two, which was a re which is a review or any uh comments or questions about the
annual meeting at the AFTC. So, while we were there, I sent out the link to get to the um handbook for finance committees that's produced by MMA. I has anybody had a chance to have a look at that >> or have a review of it?
>> Not yet. I I downloaded it today, Jim. I haven't looked at it yet. >> So, it's got a lot of really beneficial >> uh items in it about, you know, the role of the finance committee, the the uh the Mass General laws around the finance
committee, open meeting laws, things of that nature. Um, so it's a good review item to have. Uh, since I was able to get my hands on it, um, you know, when I first got on when I first joined the AFTC, I've I've always had it kind of like sitting on the side. Uh, and
something I look at quite often just to make sure we're we're staying up to up to date on that stuff. >> Hey Jim, um, yes, >> I I think I don't know if there's a a typo. There was a typo in my email address in the at the AF AFTC had them correct it, but I did not receive the
email from you. So, I don't know if in the town's database somehow that got uh inputed wrong. I should have a single M in my last name instead of two. >> Okay. So, are you uh so I didn't I didn't send it to you to individuals. I
sent it to the Halifax Finance Committee. So, if you're not part of the email group, we need to fix that first of all. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um secondly, I can certainly once we're done the call, Rodney, I can I can certainly send it over to you. >> Great. Great.
>> Daer, can you check and make sure Rodney's in the general mailing of the Fincom email, please? >> He should be on there, but I'll check. >> Thank you. Thanks, Caesar. All right. I have a note on that.
>> So, we'll make sure to follow up on that, Rodney. And if Caesar comes back and says you're not in it, I I I as I said, I'll I'll just send it right out to you. >> And if I'm in it, then I'll just talk to Caesar offline about why I'm not seeing that in my my outbox. I'll get that fixed. >> Sure. Certainly makes sense. Um, so
there's a lot of good information. Um, so EJ, I know that you weren't a you you weren't able to make it and I don't think Mike was able to make it either, but they had a lot of really good sessions on the afternoon session about the uh they had a couple of um towns who
were trying to pass over rides uh up at the Das just kind of talking through what they did to get it to to get it to town meeting. Um, I'd say the most salient one was the Easton uh town administrator had uh approval at town
meeting but got defeated at the ballot box by 2 to one. >> So they had 80% I think he said 80% passed it at town meeting >> um >> town meeting >> but once they got once you got behind the into the voting booth it got turned
down pretty soundly. >> Do you know what that number he was looking for was Jim? >> What's that? You know what number they were looking for? What was the amount of that override? >> Do you remember? >> It was day one. It is 113 million, I think. >> Yeah. >> How much? I thought I thought it was 17
million. >> No, 7.3 >> 7.3 million. >> Yeah. Um, Bridgewwater had an 8 million override that failed. And I don't I didn't I don't remember what the Stonem guy had. >> I thought he said 13.5, but
>> it was it was a range. Uh the three towns had a range of what they were asking. So >> yeah, right. >> Those are big numbers. >> Yeah, they were big. >> Yeah. >> So we'll probably talk further about that because one of the things that they did in Easton is they got a lot of the
people onto the override committee who were um uh vocally against it to help you know kind of work through the process. So I think that's probably an angle we need to need to look at from >> when we I found it interesting they had
19 people on that uh committee. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Lot lot of voices from all sectors. >> Smart. >> No attendance issues. >> Yeah. That's smart. >> Get people involved with it. >> Yep.
>> It's important. Get them involved early. >> Okay. Um, anybody have any other comments on the on the uh on the meeting this weekend? >> No, other than it was a lot of good information passed out. >> I mean, it's good to go and get all the
information, talk to other towns and >> yeah, >> what's happening in other places? >> It's a excellent resource >> uh and the MMA is as well uh to help us to guide us to do our work and it was nice to see other towns taking it
seriously as we do. uh and and learning uh for me being a new member learning from the technical aspect uh of this. So >> yeah, I'll agree Rod. There was a lot of uh really good information and uh
interesting the comments from the different municipalities on what they're going through and the hurdles they've had and successes they've had as well and how they achieved them. >> Right. Yep. All right.
>> The the TA from East um sounds like he's had a few battle wounds in his day there. >> I think he got pretty scarred up. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> All right. Uh so if there is nothing
further on that agenda item, we will close that and uh move on to the uh budget and the liaison updates. So um Mike, I know that uh the library the new library director's already reached out to you uh and you guys are working on
getting together at some point in time to uh to talk about his needs for next year. >> Yep. Possibly this Friday. Yeah. >> Right. So, I haven't I you know, I I met with uh Robert a c uh I think two weeks ago, three weeks ago. Uh and we him and I
will probably be getting together on some of the other town office uh pieces um to kind of work through that. And um I don't know if we have heard back from the schools at all on any kind of preliminary estimate on what they want next year.
>> Nothing yet. >> Okay. and and if I can just introduce myself because some of these faces are new to me. >> So, I'm Bob Fennennessy. I'm the interim obviously. >> Uh I was here probably for a short time
and it's stretched out a little bit. Um we did get the budget packages out on October 8th to all the department heads and they're working on them now. We had one return. Yay. So, uh, we'll see what happens over the
next couple of months. So, >> what's the return date on those, Robert? >> I think it was December 8th, I want to say. Somewhere around there. It's earlier than um in the past >> previous. Yeah.
>> Yeah. So it'll give finance committee more time to kind of digest them all and figure a path to get get the balance budgets out. So >> did you submit a uh reduction um as
well? >> Two two budgets they're going to submit. They're going to submit a level service budget and a 10% reduction budget >> and 10% reduction. and listening to this talk about the override, you know, I've I've been through a few too in my long
career and uh and it's very difficult to pass and even more difficult in in the climate at this time. So, so I'm not counting on something like that when I'm looking at these budgets. Uh it'd be nice if there was a override and they
could fund every budget, you know, to the request, but I don't see that happening. Yeah, >> we'll have to sharpen our pencils if I'm still here that time. And >> who knows what'll happen. >> Yeah, it's pretty much was the sentiment
from a lot of the uh town administrators that were speaking the other day on Saturday. >> Yeah. And we have, you know, obviously we have meetings and we have a a group kind of a list serve and everybody's saying the same thing. You know, it's a
it's a reach to try and get a override passed at this time. So, but doesn't mean you shouldn't try if that's what the, you know, the the finance committee and the select board, you know, want to do. Um, Bob, >> are you are you familiar with any other
towns that have passed overrides that have been successful recently? Um, there was one I think I think it was in Hanover or you know what kind of one of the more uh the richer towns.
>> So I think it was Brooklyn. >> Brooklyn write their checks. They don't they don't >> Yeah. Well, you know >> Well, the woman Tom Brady got all kinds of money. Mhm. >> The the woman from Brooklyn said they passed it because the school asked for
the override. >> The schools asked for it and everybody just jumped right in. >> But when the when the city asked for the override, they no, it was a flat no. >> Yeah. >> And one thing >> I thought was rather interesting. >> One thing they talked about was she had
said like 85% of the money goes towards the schools like Mike said. uh and that they were they were trying to balance their overrides to support other other administrative functions of the town, not just the uh the school that they
need, you know, fire, police, ambulance, highway to be able to have more of the money go towards those other programs, but the school has an organized lobbying effort successfully lobbies the town for their override money. But that's what they're trying to balance better. Like
they do have the overrides that pass but the overrides skew towards the school. >> Yeah. And the town didn't services didn't see any of the money. >> Right. >> Right. >> Okay.
>> Hey Jim, >> just it's uh EJ just real quick on the school budget. Um, so I know we haven't seen much from them, but one of the items that was in that last email we got from them, um, there were a couple of bullet points on
there, and one of them was about transportation. Um, and I think it was we're going into the sixth year. We have a or we have a seventh year option or a six-year option that we can pick up. Um, and I think they're making the recommendation that we pick that up. is at some point is it
worth opening a conversation up as to how we approach these extensions moving forward? Um, you know, rather than just saying that or assuming that they're our best option, uh, and just moving forward with them because they're in front of us. I I
just think that we're not testing the market out as as strongly as we should in these types of situations given the the situation that we're in overall uh from a budget standpoint. >> I absolutely agree with that. I you know
I it's I can understand you know going through the contract but when you get to option years you know it's specifically that it's an option. Um they didn't they didn't seem to have an appetite last year to look at other vendors. Um
and and Robert, maybe you can help us out with this or give us some kind of feedback. I you know the the the challenge is I think there's a limited group of providers first of all. Um, and I just, you know, I, you know, it's the
path of least resistance in my opinion for them to just pick up the next option because it's already there in front of them and they have to do very little work to do that. >> So, you know, that's >> especially when you're talking about a five like it's a 5% increase. Sorry,
Lindsay. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say I don't know what the increase is out like with other um companies, but it's a 5% and it did sound like that is less money than a new contract.
>> Sarah, >> so the increase of 5%. >> Now, we're talking about the yellow bus's first student here, >> correct? >> Yes. Because the other special needs busing programs are no contract.
>> Correct. Correct. >> And pay per service on that. And that's where a bulk of the money is going to >> is going. >> So I guess my only my only problem with that statement is it's it's all
assumption because we don't have anything to prove out that it is the most fiscally responsible approach to it. Right. And I'm not saying that it isn't overall. I I truly hear you out there, Lindsay. Um and I know you're just kind of regurgitating what you've heard heard elsewhere. But
>> if we haven't shopped it and we don't know what we're getting for competitive bids, how can we say that this is the best option for us to use? That's that's the trouble that I have with it. >> Me also. >> I'm I'm I'm right behind you on that. >> Yeah. You know, it's it's great to say
it is cheap and and that's fine, but can you how do you how do you validate that? Right. >> And I think I think in today, you know, when we're when we're at town meeting and we're fighting over a $300 increase to a committee's um you know, mailing expense and not saying anything about a
$1.7 million transportation budget uh that goes up every year, 5% um you know, it's seems a little bit backwards to me. So, I don't know if we have I don't know we h if we have the ability to to um either convince or push
the school in that direction. Um but it seems like it's the it's the central office that'll be doing that would that would be seeking those um RFPs. Is that correct? >> Correct. Yeah. >> Business services would have to get a quote for us. Yeah. Right.
>> Right. when they need to put bids out. >> Well, they'd have to get some kind of a The only way they're going to get a quote is through a bid. >> Right. >> Right. So, >> uh, is this I'm sorry, Jay. I had a question for you, uh, or maybe Lindsay,
either one of you might be able to answer it. Is the option, the transportation option a mutual option or is it the town's option to renew? Who is it? What's the nature of the of the option for the seventh year? Um it was so there was a it was a
five-year contract with a sixth and seventh option um added to it. They did do it for the sixth year and it's based on a recommendation is what it sounded like from Sarah and she did say that she is recommending it for the seventh year.
So I do think after the 5 years it's just based on I would assume they do a comparison. I don't really want to speak for them. Um, but then it's based on a recommendation from the school's finance, it sounds like.
>> Okay. >> And it's our option, Rodney, to >> Okay. >> to pick that year up. >> Thanks. >> Thank you both. >> Robert, anything? >> No, I I hear you, Jim. I I know that we
we can't do much about it. It just seems I you know given what our responsibility is for the town, it seems foolish for us to at least not have the conversation because um the you know anything else would be just us turning our back to it. I don't think none of none of us want to
do that, >> right? >> I think things should be bid every year. That's just my opinion. just just from a competitive perspective >> and to open and and you know just in the terms of of free market to get it out in front of the public and any other vendor who wants to bid on it is certainly
welcome to bid on it. If you don't get any other vendors to bid so be it. But you know at least you went out and you went out and tried to do >> tried to get that right tried to gather that kind of stuff. Um, you know, and you know what the other I guess the flip
side of that is is you could run a foul of, you know, the the the constituency itself when we start questioning what the school's doing because then, you know, are you against education? Um, you know, that kind of stuff is is where is
where we would be headed. >> Well, there have been occasions where no bus companies actually bid. People go out to bid and nobody bids on it. >> Yes. >> That's been a reality as well, >> right? >> It is. >> So, you you have to be pretty careful and look at your hand and
>> see what's going on around you first and think before you >> challenge the price and and want to do that >> just to make sure that you know we can get someone to bid on it. >> It it's difficult to get people to bid on these >> for the bus services. >> Well, yeah. And just it I understand
where you're coming from, Jim, but on those those types of contracts, I don't think you're going to find very many people interested in just a one-year bid because the amount of work that goes into that with the bidding process and
the hiring and operational of that um contract as well. >> At a minimum, it should be at least three years, >> I would think. Yeah. I'm not so sure about it being a fiveyear with two option, three option behind it. Maybe a
a three with a two um option years or something like that for a total of five. >> Well, we could request pricing for three years, five years and see if it's better pricing over time, you know, over the fiveyear period might be a little bit lower than three because they have to
pay for these buses. So if they have guaranteed at least five years, they're a little happier than three years, >> right? Well, let me let let me be clear. I'm not I'm not saying we should go to one-year contracts. I'm not saying that. I'm saying pricing should be validated
every year. >> Whether you work in your community, talk to other schools, what are they doing for how much, you know, what's their what's their busing cost or transportation costs and if they're fairly aligned with not only, you know, across the area or schools of similar
size, but also with the economy as a whole and how inflation is running versus, you know, whatever, you know, whatever tax base or monetary policy or budget policies are going on in that area. That's that's what I'm saying. We should be checking that to make sure
we're consistent and not, you know, and and then going back to the vendor if there's an issue. Or at least this is what I did when I worked with the state of Massachusetts is I would go back to whatever vendor we were working with and I would say, you know, and I would check with other vendors. Is this is this about what the what the market is?
>> Um instead of just saying, okay, five years, thank you very much. And just letting it run. >> Yeah. The simple the simplest way that I I agree with everything you're saying, Jim. I the simplest way that I think about it is working with taxpayer dollars. You're bound to process and you
have to be sure that, you know, speaking for us, we have to be sure that we're following process and as do all the contracts that we enter into. What results of that process isn't anything that we can control. But as long as we just make sure the eyes are dotted and
the tees are crossed, then we can feel good about what's going on around us. And I just think that that's where all of this comes into play in my mind. It's like we're not we're not even looking at these things right now. And that that's scary when we look at the the shortages
that we're up against every single year. Um to not look at things is not is not a good way for us to operate. >> Yeah. And I don't want to speak for the school, but I I think they are looking at those things. Uh something that was
bid out and purchased six years ago at a 5% increase is probably a lot less than what it is today over the past two or three years with all the uh in massive increases not only in in uh in
vehicles and other things. Uh it's just I would think that a 5% falls in a a very positive amount of an increase versus what if we if they go out to bed they're shutting off that option and they're going out to bid and then it's
kind of like when one of the socks breakmen when he went out he's going to go out to bed giving up his option to stay with the socks for a certain amount of money he'll make a lot more money there'll be a lot more out there because prices have increased so dramatically
over the past, you know, three or four years across the board. So, so I, you know, I think they're talking to other they would I would hope they're talking to other communities and and others to see if that's still a good deal. My gut is that it probably is a good deal at
5%. Another thing is I think should also be addressed again is the the headcount on these buses again >> like we did two years ago. Um we did the headcounts and found out that we were
running some buses with 12 students and some buses with 50 students on them. >> Wow. >> Combining routes and minimizing buses. I believe we we were we were able to save on two
two buses. It's like $80,000 $100,000. >> Yeah. >> Between the two buses, if I remember correctly. And I think we need to go back to that again because >> one, student counts are down. Two, there's more and more students being
driven to school. Um, so some buses are running pretty thin. >> I think we need to re-evaluate that once again. we can cut one or two buses again. It's it's significant money to us, you know, on on these budgets.
>> Yeah. And I just just to put a pin in it from my perspective. I I just I'm not saying that the 5% is not the the cheapest option or the best option for us to move forward with with this. I'm I'm not saying that at all. I I I'm just saying that we can't ask people to
believe us that it is without being able to prove that it is. And we can't do that, >> right? >> That's that's my only point. >> That's true, >> right? Yeah. >> It's it's $50,000 a bus, Frank. >> It's $50,000. So, it's a h 100k then. >> Yep.
>> Is what um with the two buses that we um changed to. Plus, he also went to one smaller bus, a 17 person bus, I believe, um >> which also saved some money there as well. >> Right. It's a less expensive bus.
>> Yeah, exactly. in versus 71 or >> 72 and 76 seat buses, >> right? >> A lot of those. >> It's smart. We should be doing that every year. >> Yeah. >> I think we should do that every year. Have them evaluate the bus routes >> to make sure that we're getting,
>> you know, the most kids on the bus that we can get. >> Yeah. Because like I say, some of those buses run thin >> and some of them are running pretty full. >> Yeah. I mean, it was amazing when we sat at the school committee meeting and they were telling us how many were on the bus. some of the buses. I mean, it was just why they even running that bus,
>> right? >> Agreed. >> All good information all leading to a very interesting fiscal year. >> All right. Um any further comment, discussion on the budget or liaison
updates. >> All right, then we will just close out that item. Uh we will move over to correspondence and as may arise. Um I have not gotten any uh emails uh from the general public. Um, has anyone else
gotten anything through their town email from the from anyone in the town? Any residents? >> Okay. >> No. >> As may arise. Anybody have anything they want to discuss with the group as a whole since
we are all here? >> Okay. Um, Jim, I wanted to let you guys know it was it looks like it's resolved the issues. I wasn't there were two lists created for the FINCOM committee on email and they merged them because I apparently was on one that wasn't used. So, they they merged it. So, we should
be set now. >> All right. Um, I will I'll send a copy of the uh of the handbook over to your town email, Rodney. >> Thanks. Appreciate it. >> Yep. Jim, have there been conversations at all yet about timeline leading up to
next town meeting at all? Has that come up at all >> in terms of >> when like meeting will be? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I haven't I haven't heard anything >> in May.
>> May, right? First be like the first Monday in May or something. >> Okay. >> I think it's the second. >> Is it the second? >> Yeah, I think it's second Monday. believe it's the second Monday in May. Okay. >> Second Monday. Okay. All right.
>> Well, as usual, we'll probably run, you know, every other week until probably January. Then when we start seeing some budgets come in, you know, when we get into February, we'll uh we'll pick back up to uh you know, every Monday until town meeting until we get the budgets
done and the warrant completed. And will will we be doing the same that we did last year, meeting with them? >> Yes, I would that's that. Yes. Yes. I would I would like to see everybody at least speak with their liaison about what it is they'd be looking for this
year and any any issues or challenges that they have that they would want to escalate uh prior to submitting anything. >> Um I have a question. I know maybe it's for Bob or Jim, but I'll post it to the committee. uh I need the details on who
the the leaison are for that are my responsibility to reach out to so I don't know who can provide that to me but that would be really appreciated and sadly uh with Bob's Bob Valerie's sudden passing uh we'll obviously have to identify a board of health agent that I
can be in contact with as well and I don't know I heard that we might be having someone covered started today I don't know if Bob could shed any more light on that >> so we have uh Bob Uker from the consort consortium. We're part of a consortium of I think eight towns uh health agents
and and Bob Valerie was one of the big players in that. Uh so last week uh Bob Bucer came in uh and got situated. Uh they're going to fill in until we hire somebody for no cost to the town. So
we'll hire somebody a year from now. Um >> but I said that. So he's he's doing the inspections. He's qualified. These are all health agents. And when there's an and they all have different expertise in
their in their background. So if it's a specific thing, uh they'll pull in somebody else to go out and do the inspection or deal with an issue. So it's kind of a great group to have. Uh I was I was floored when he came in last
week, the day after Bob notification came out that he died. >> Uh he was s he was in there to meet with me and and get on board. Really nice guy, very smart. >> Um >> you know, he's he's going to do two days a week
right now, Tuesday and Thursday. >> But will he be working on the budgets? Um, I'll probably be working with them on the budget to put >> All right. So, you're going to work on the budget then? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right.
>> They have a pretty standard budget. So, >> uh, you think you can get that to us in about 10 days, that budget on that, Robert, or >> um, we'll see. I mean, I don't, you know, again, it's a standard budget and when you're dealing with a with a level service budget, it's
pretty easy to do. It's not it's not, you know, rocket science at that level. >> Not rocket science, >> you know, and then then the 10% cut, okay, you got to figure out where to cut where have the least impacts and >> I think >> but and everybody all the department
heads know that we had a good department head meeting uh went over all that um you know and they're all geared up. They know they know the financial situation. They know from last year, you know, how you pulled it together to even get to this year. So, so, you know, they're
bracing themselves, but you know, they they have a good sense of what's happening. >> Okay. Uh, Robert, on another note while you're here regarding the um town landfill and the pas
ch cost to the the contract and all that. >> This something that I need to understand a little bit better. Um, and this may not be the time to do it at this meeting because I don't want to blindside you with it, but I just want to throw it out there.
>> Not only that, it's not on the agenda. So, >> right, it's just something that I think that uh we need to have a pretty hard co talk on. So, we have I personally have a better understanding of where we're spending that money and why the cost increase and exactly how that cost
increase is working on a quarterly, semianual, annual basis or just exactly what that is we're getting for that additional increase in cost to that contract. >> Tell you Was that was that a question or a statement? >> Uh that's what I'm looking to see.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Again, it's not on the agenda. >> Understood. >> I don't have that information on my >> Right. I'm not expecting an answer tonight, but something we need to pull together. >> I think that's something we can put on an agenda in the future.
>> Yes. because we had some conversations with Bob about it, but we never fully understood what he was talking about. >> Yeah. Yeah. He had a lot in his brain that we're going to miss. So, >> yeah, it was prior to you coming on
board and um so we just need to kind of understand that because that thing came out of nowhere for us. All those numbers did. >> Yeah. So, >> okay. Okay.
Appreciate that. Frank, anybody have anything else they'd like to discuss? All right. Hearing none, we will close that agenda item and we will move to public participation. Any members of the public on the call?
I don't see any. So hearing none, we will close the public participation segment of the agenda. Moving into next meeting planning, which will be the what I have currently is November 2nd is our next meeting. Um, if we want to keep it at
5:30, that's fine. It'll be in person in town hall. >> Jim, it's the third. >> November 3rd. >> Okay. All right. >> And that's in person, correct?
>> In person town hall 7 uh 17:30. 5:30. >> 17:30 works. >> All right. >> I understand it. >> It does. It does. >> I'll be there at 5:30 anyways. >> Either way, right? Either way,
>> that'll work, Mike. All right, everybody. >> I wrote it. It's in written in blood in my note right in my book right now. There you go. >> All right. Uh, is there anything else anybody wants to bring up for chat about?
>> Okay, then that concludes the agenda items for this evening's meeting. Um, may we have can I can we get a motion to adjurnn? >> So move. Second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Roll call vote. Cheryl,
>> yes. >> Mike Bennett, >> yes. >> Frank Johnston, >> yes. To adjourn, please. >> EJ, >> yes. >> Mike Regetta, >> yes. >> Rod Hemingway, >> yes. >> And I'm a yes as well. So, the meeting
is adjourned. I want to thank everybody for joining and we will see you in two weeks. >> Thank you all. Everyone >> thanks guys. >> Bye.