Okay, the time is now 6:00. Want to thank everybody for attending the finance committee uh of the town of Halifax, our weekly meeting on the 4th of May, 2026. This meeting has been posted in accordance with the provisions
of MGL30A section 20B and is being recorded and will be posted on the Area 58 access channel. The finance committee chair and committee reasonably anticipates the following matters will be discussed and/or voted on at this meeting. Agenda items may be taken out
of order for time management considerations. Uh, present in the room are Cheryl Burke, Mike Bennett, Frank Johnston, Rod Hemingway, and myself, Jim Walters. I don't believe any members are currently online. So, we have Qu and we will go ahead and
get started. >> Jim, I'm online. This is DJ. >> Oh, okay. All right, EJ. Thank you. So, with DJ being online, all votes will be done by roll call. So we have since our last meeting there have been no um there has been no
submission of any corrected minutes or any minutes from prior meetings. Those should be forthcoming. Uh so we will bypass that and we will move into our town administrator update. Um and I have two items on here. So the first one is final items for town meeting and then comments or questions on any of the
articles that are currently out there. So over to you Steve. >> Yeah, thank you Jim. Um, so the only final comments I really have are just this um this document I handed out before the meeting which will be which will serve as the supplemental budget uh
document item at the meeting. It says that on the front page. Uh the moderator will make that known as well. Um as part of his uh consent agenda. [clears throat and cough] Um, a lot of what you're seeing on the front page is exactly basically a
summarization of the consent agenda that will be read before town meeting starts and uh the moderator starts getting into the agenda talking about governing procedure controlling budget document which will be this this will be the controlling budget document of the night. The reason for that is because some there were some slight changes to
the budget numbers between the time when the finance committee approved the budget and the time uh that it is currently realistically. And Lindsay, correct me if I'm wrong, but the only two changes I I remember of note are the
waistline, [clears throat] excuse me. >> Yep. which was it was like 421,000 and now we're reflecting 397,000 175. That's on line 107.
>> Yeah, because they negotiated the contract after we did the budget and they came out at 0% increase. So we just um brought it back down to FY26 and then that would have to be
>> so the budget that FINCOM voted is that line is less than what they voted in. >> Right. >> Okay. >> And then um the other slight change was to public safety. If you go to line 69
dispatch services. So you could see it went from 200 to 205. >> So it went up 5,000. >> They went up 5,000. Um deputy chief Benner uh told us told me that that number had changed after we had after you guys final budget number. So those
were the only two changes that I remember. Uh I did look through this document a number of times today and didn't see any other changes that have changed since um the fincom approved their final number at your that last meeting.
Excuse me. Um, other than that, uh, we added some funding notes here, as you can see at the end of the budget document, which is, uh, along the lines of what you've seen in years past about where the monies are coming from, along with the Roman numerals associated that are fixed
to the table. Um, and then of course at the bottom there, you see available free cash of $1,390,489. And then on the last page is the um summarized school budget that I got last week and I've summarized into this
one-page document that basically takes all the different subtotal lines and puts them in and is FY26 what was approved last year versus what they proposed this year on mounting in the total of 8,157,387 which puts us in compliance with mass
7134 um about posting the correct budget number uh or proposed budget number. [clears throat] So that being said, I will take any other comments or questions regarding um
final article questions of the town meeting. Anything else? We will be going to print on the pink paper on these tomorrow um for town meeting. So, >> Stephen, do we have a number on the VO uh students yet? The number of Voke
attendees? Did we get that number from them? >> I did ask about it. Um I don't think it was the full three. I know it wasn't the full three. >> Lindsay, do you remember if they had confirmed on Friday what that number was? I think one student.
>> Yeah, I think it was one >> applied, but they still have something about being accepted, but I believe it's only one. >> And I believe those are each like $77,000 each. >> And there was they initially budgeted
for three. And if there's one, there's 140,000 in savings approximately. Mr. Pratt, >> I just have a question. I'm not sure if it's appropriate now or later. Uh Tom Pratt and Arrowhead Path. um not this year. So maybe not Germaine tonight, but
given the c the conversations that we're having, would it be appropriate and what would it take to move our town meeting bylaws to move the town meeting back until some of these numbers come in more concrete from the state chapter 7 funding out of district's placements
next year instead of a second Saturday in May thing? What would it take? What are the downsides to moving into the second >> June? Saturday in June or Monday in June just to buy us 30 more days of time for information.
Is there a downside? I know it's a bylaw. I know that's it would take some sort of change. >> Is there a downside to moving it back? >> Personally, I don't think so. Just just my opinion. >> Several times it's done. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it just seems to me where some
numbers are coming in late, some beyond our control. Um maybe the benefit of time, not this year clearly, um but maybe more time is advantageous for us. >> Um Jim, the only the only comment that I would have does that have any impact to
Lindsay and her team in terms of having enough time to load budget into any system systems or anything like that? Is there any pressures from a from a workload standpoint by pushing it out to June? >> Um not to my knowledge. I mean it yes it
is all manual entry but I don't think that it would matter >> it's going to take the same amount of time to enter it whether it's in May or June in my opinion
>> I'm not sure making sure that if if if you do it in June is that amount of time enough time for you to get everything done before the start of the fiscal year or do you need the extra extra weeks that you get by having town meeting in May?
>> I don't think it has anything to do with my office if I'm being honest. I don't know if um I know Sue's not on. I don't know if there's any reason for like the clerk's office. Um but I [clears throat] don't think for me no.
I think at the government study meeting, Mary Graham, he's 98 CL Bosworth. I think at the government study meeting when we interviewed I think the clerk I think there may have been a reason why it we didn't want they didn't want it moved to June. I don't know what it was.
I can't remember. I just remember we discussed it. Jim, do you remember that? >> I do believe there was a conversation around that >> and there was I thought there was some reason for not >> not wanting it or not making it viable. Was it not available or just a preference? >> I can't remember. I just remember there
was some negative, >> but I I I agree 100%. >> I'm just wondering if time would be on our side here if we could kick things 30 days later. >> Well, I think it would. I mean, we we as the finance committee, and I'm sure those who have been on the finance committee are aware that we run into
some strong headwinds from the local schools as a department just to get some solid numbers from them. Uh, as an example, I've asked uh the high school uh for their budget numbers because they're $500,000 more expensive this year than they were last year because we
just wanted to understand what was driving that cost and they have yet to share those numbers. And I've emailed the new finance person at least three times trying to get that. So, I think a longer period of time uh to give us another 30 days would certainly give
everyone a chance to get that data into the people that need it, but that doesn't mean we're going to get the data when we ask for it >> or if it will pass a town meeting. I'm just I'm just wondering what the downside will be because >> I don't I don't think there is a downside in my opinion. >> I think it needs to be explored though,
>> right? Yeah. And if there is a downside, let's look at it and see if that's not something that has a workaround or is that going to be a hard deal. >> Yeah, certainly. >> Jonathan's got another question. >> Gordon Anders, 244 Elm Street. So, the
selectman can vote to change town meeting to delay it. >> Yes, they can do it now. >> You could you can do that. That's in your perview. Y >> the reason that the way it's structured is that the regional agreement says that Silver Lake must be set 45 days before
the first town meeting. So tra traditionally that's been Kingston that sets that first. They've always held the first town meeting. Then it's Halifax, then it's Flinton. So if everybody pushes that back, >> okay, >> it pushes back where they are. Now,
traditionally what happens with the budget is that the elementary school and the um Silver Lake use the governor's budget numbers for the cherry sheets and chapter 17. So, what happens as we go along through
this process, you get updated numbers from the House and the Senate. You know, typically they don't pass their budget until, you know, 12 hours into the next fiscal year and just say that the time didn't move, >> right? Eventually, you get to the spot where you have to make a decision on
what it is that you have. So, you know what your prop two and a half is right away coming into the next fiscal year. You should know what your new growth is by the first of the year. >> So, then you're looking at local receipts and you're saying, "Okay, this is what came in. This is what we
estimated." Now, typically the town of Halifax estimates 15% less than the previous than the current year that you get in. And what that's done is allowed us to have free cash the following year to have money to spend. Now, as you look
at the numbers and you don't have money, then you move away from 15%, you go closer to five or to zero if you have to. But all those numbers you should know. um you know when the public budget hearings are for the elementary school
and so the lake and that's when the finance committee should be given their input into their budget cuz that's the only place where you guys and the town residents can actually go and give input all the other meetings that they have >> they have a public comment in the very
beginning and they don't have to allow any other speech to happen during their budget discussions typically what's happened is the selectman in the finance committee from all Three towns are talking in December and January saying what they have available.
We would typically have had a tri-town meeting with Silver Lake and some of the elementary schools dedicated for February or the beginning of March so that you get everybody that's a stakeholder in and say this is what we
have. this is what's available. And then you can say to them, look, this is they need Soap Lake needs two towns to get a yes budget. Once they get yes, the third town has to pay it no matter what. >> So if you get two towns to say no to their budget at that meeting, then
they've got to go back and recalculate their budget. >> And we did that numerous times while I was on the finance committee. We said, "This is what we have available. This is what it is." To your point about the increase on Silver Lake, what they did
is what Jason presented. Jason went around to all the different towns and said the debt exclusion dropped off. They just took that debt exclusion money and put it into their budget without a revenue source for the towns.
So, they're the ones that are driving the override from the school side cuz we had dedicated debt exclusion of like $300,000. they just tack that on to bar assessment in the operating side.
>> So those items are I mean if you if you see their meetings if you go through their website and if you know how the packet system works they have on the website everything is there. It's just you have to know where to look
and you have to know where to go. So does it give you time? Yes, it would give you time. You can vote if you got you can hold a meeting on Wednesday at I don't know 7:00 and push
it back if you wanted to now. >> But you could you could do those things. Mhm. >> Thank you, sir. >> I guess while I got the floor, the only thing that I would I would say is when you look at the elementary school
and you add up the numbers that you have in there for the um vocational >> for special needs and tuition and transportation. That's just one vote by them. So that they don't break that out. So the total that you have in there is a
total that they can spend. So when I looked at the number now I agree that I think the school committee made a mistake when they took their vote because they voted that 81 and they said the [snorts] offset on top the offset should have taken the money
down. They should have been at 77. >> That would be $400,000 away from your number. And I and I think that you can get there when you make the other changes. I I think if you put in the updated assessment number for Silver Lake, that
gives you another 200,000. So you're now at 2 220. Take 175 from home stabilization for Silver Lake is what they're doing with that money that they added in capital items. That's what we said at
the time. We took the money from Penroke and put it into the stabilization department said this money will be used for capital items in Silver Lake. And if you update the charity sheet to the updated number and use the house's number, you've got an additional $44,000.
So I think you wipe out the override need for the schools if you make those changes. >> Do you have that written out so that they I have >> I sent a copy I sent a copy finance committee. >> Okay. cuz I just had to I had I saw what
you wrote and I had to write it all down and figure it all out and look at it. >> So I I know that the budget is timeconuming. I know that how much I I understand it. It's very confusing. That's Blake into the mix. It ends up being like eight orders of magnitude worse. >> I I get what you guys are going through
and I appreciate all the time and effort you put in and I I mean that to all of you. I know how much time and effort you put in cuz you can't do it without doing that. >> Mhm. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> But, but what next? Because that funds
half it. >> So, then I think you make a decision to use free cash to to it. That'll get So, I wouldn't fund OPED with free cash. I would just do the $5,000. So, that gets you to 560 of free cash. Last year, you were at
740, now you're at 560. You've reduced the amount that you're using onetime money. Is it a great policy? God, no. But it got you by. gonna get by another year. Yeah. Do I think the town has difficult choices to make? I do. I I
think I know Stephen had talked about he got a quote for the senior center at one meeting, which was well beyond >> what we have, right? So, you put that into the plan. Silver Lake is going to be looking for $60 million, right? So, a
third of that is 20 million. It's uh $500,000 to the town of Hellifax every year. I would suggest that they do a debt exclusion for that amount of money. So, it's locked in so they don't try to do this again. >> Yeah. >> But like long term, I think you need a
real plan of this is where each building is. This is what we have for department needs. This is what we have for staffing needs. Can we afford this? And I've been saying for the last number of years, I don't think so. I really think the town needs to look to merge, but I don't
think the other towns are there yet. I think the town needs to merge long term >> in terms of schools >> in terms of the whole thing. >> Everything. >> Everything. >> So like uh regional agreements across the board almost. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Police
>> cuz we're we have the we have three police chiefs. [clears throat] >> They're all comparing. Now I don't mean to pick on the police chiefs, but we have three chiefs, right? They all go to the same meetings. They all use use each other's contracts, right, to compare against each other of
everybody else that's in Plymouth County and Bristol and Northfor. And we don't have the same number of employees that all those other departments have. So you'd be a much larger department. You you could have more Indians and less chiefs.
>> And I think and if you looked at the buildings, you'd be doing the same thing. I mean, we can't afford our own middle school and high school. I really don't think we can afford our own senior center. Not looking at the numbers. I mean, the first place that we're we're cutting is the staff there,
>> right? So, if we can't afford to staff it, how do we build a building that we're not going to be able to maintain? I just think all of these items are larger issues that need to be discussed, a plan going forward. I think you bring it to the town next
year with with a full decked out plan and say this is what it's going to cost estimating going forward. Can we do this? Do you want to do this? [snorts] >> Is it too late to make any changes looking at his figures and looking at what he's looked at? Is it too late to
do anything before town meeting? >> It's up to the board of select. I mean, they could postpone town meeting at this point, but it would be up to them. >> But isn't the budget the finance committee's budget? >> It is. Uh, I think if I understand
correctly, we're talking about using free cash to fill the gap again. >> But the gap is much less than we thought it was. >> Correct. But that still foregoes things that that the fire department needs, that the
police department needs, that the town highway department needs. You know, those things have to be considered. I mean, we didn't do um we dropped one police vehicle in an ambulance last year, and the intent was to use free cash in the capital programs to get the
ambulance on order this year because it takes three years to get a new ambulance. So, but we have to pay for it. Um but again that's you know what if you don't do that then maintenance costs go up and as vehicles age especially ambulances that run all the time um and
police vehicles that run 24/7 uh your your maintenance costs are going to go continue to rise from where they are today to even more. So, I think that it's, you know, though I understand the desire to do that, um, I certainly wouldn't recommend continuing to use
free cash because we're only going to end up doing it again next year and we're going to be doing the same thing that we're doing today, talking about how we can use free cash to not vote an override. >> So, so on the vehicle side of things, the other thing that we talked about
previously before Kingston does is they go and they lease the vehicle. So they they borrow the money and you have a lease payment. They use their free cash to make the lease payment. So it's another available item to use. If you have half the money
for the ambulance this year, you come up with half the money for the ambulance next year. But basically, you're borrowing the money and they do the same thing with the police cruisers. So it gave them a few years of not having that one time
payment. Eventually, you have all those payments, but it does allow you to extend out the term basically and and give you one or two years. >> I'm just concerned. I mean, I don't know. I feel like the temperature on the town is maybe the override will not
pass. and Gordon to bring up another issue about unemployment. If we lay off 12 teachers, what are the unemployment costs that we have not fitted into the budget for all those teachers? And and if you do lay off those
teachers, you're going to have a mass exodus to go to charter schools, which means now this is wrong wording, but I've had like two hours of sleep, three hours of sleep. The average cost student at the school
helps pay for the higher cost students at the school. If you take the average cost students and they go to charter school, they take their full funding with them. >> So the only thing that you're left with is the higher cost students and you don't have the average cost students
helping to offset those costs. So I would just again caution you on that that if you bring class sizes to 30 and above. I mean, I I would be looking at my child and saying, I, you
know, I think the choice here is to go to charter school cuz there's 20 kids in the classroom and the $15,000 will be spent on you versus $9,000 will be spent on you. And I think you get into that calculus. So,
and the the financial cost of laying off 10 teachers is going to be someplace close to 140 to $200,000. And I don't think we have that in the unemployment account cuz typically we don't pay into it as they get paid. We pay when they
use it. So, I I don't know what's in that account. >> Correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't you say we were going to supplement that with free cash? But there's no article to do that. >> Special time maybe
[clears throat] >> but doesn't not until the fall. >> Yeah. Right. >> But don't they have to drop off in July? >> So what do you do for July, August, and September? >> Isn't it usual that it's available >> in the summer? Are they entitled to unemployment? That's a good question. September.
>> As soon as they get late, as soon as they get their pink slip, the last day of school, they can file for unemployment the very next day >> because their contract goes to the last day of school. >> It does, >> but in the summer >> they get paid whether >> whether we're I'm just
>> I'm curious if in Massachusetts the that month contract >> like during the school year. Yeah. It's a 9month contract versus a 12 month contract. >> Is it 12 months >> if they get paid through the summer month? What? So they get they're no >> that's that's a a different story.
>> Is it payroll or something? That's a it's an option the school does stretch. Yeah. >> They stretch their paychecks. >> So I mean if you're looking at paying $200,000 in free cash and laying off the teachers versus coming up with $600,000
in free cash and having those people there. Qu I think it's so I think what I think you have a lot a lot of great points right that you know how much you think of you and and the things you know about the town and the finances and and the intricacies to some of us I certainly don't know all these things
>> so I guess my counter question is this is sort of a simple yes or no do you agree that inflation and fixed cost have outpaced Proposition 2 and a half >> yes so at some place in somewhere unless the
town is willing to expand their growth and bring in a giant new amount of revenue from somewhere which I don't think anybody wants that either because everything I see and hear is that people like the small town feel. I certainly do and people are up in arms about an auto
zone or whatever's going in there >> which is really only going to bring in about 8 to 12,000. >> Right. But I'm saying, but that's and everyone's thinks that we're, you know, whoever sold them the building is the devil for doing that, that we have two auto zones and three coffee shops. And so if they're against that, they're not going to be
>> and they're not happy about the >> about having that much more revenue, business growth in town. So without that happening, the only way to catch up at some point is some sort of override, a new base, right? the last one here and I wasn't here 20 years ago but I imagine
it was 2005 so 21 years ago was the last override and that was a similar reason to catch up this is >> so that was the firefighters going full time >> right right and now this is worse where inflation for 20 years has far outpaced most town's revenue growth and if we were one of a small number of of
communities I would look really even harder at what our problems are internally but it's not just us and I don't I don't want like with everybody else. I want to be every other town. I want to be Halifax. But when there's 20, 30 towns within our
region that are in the exact same position for some of the same reasons, you know, I don't I don't disagree that we can do things better next year. A long-term and a master plan, which I know we're working on now, which is going to help us in the long term for sure. So, I think there was some long-term planning going on now that we
haven't had previously, which I think is fantastic. It's all brand new. Um, but I just I just don't know how we start at a new base, a new tax base, and try to then fix those issues going forward where we can keep we can keep up with
inflation because it almost always is going to rise more than 2 and a half%. >> So, I I guess my concern is I don't I don't see the override passing with gas and $4 a gallon. >> That's that's my feeling. So if there's another option to keep the town going
shortterm for a year and not impact the service, I think you do that. >> Yeah. >> And it's not a great long-term solution. >> No, we know it's not. We don't want to do it last year. We did it last year and with with the with the warning and the precursor
>> very publicly >> that this is this year and next year it's there's going to be an override. It was there was no it was fully transparent right between the selectman between us >> the town it was it was like okay we don't want to do this and we used all the money didn't buy the ambulance didn't you know told the police chief
you only get one cruise like we did a lot of things that we would normally have done and didn't do them so that we could keep the town going the way it was and who knows that next year is is worse or better we don't know right so yeah is the timing terrible with gas at $4 yeah spent 100 bucks on gas yesterday and almost fell over but I knew I could see it was coming I'm like things just kept
going up so Do you anticipate the school coming in, the elementary school coming in with such a high budget and then Silver Lake coming in with another half a million dollars? >> I think the school was kind of put on notice last year that we, you know, you took our free cash for last year. You're going to have to make some tough
decisions next year. >> I I I think I would push back on that because the elementary school is not the cause of this issue. It's silver. >> I agree with this. >> I agree. I agree. So, because we got the regional agreement, all the special needs tuitions and transportations were
on the elementary school budget. We changed the regional agreement. Now, it's prek and in grade 7 to age 22. So, all that funding got shifted and we spent all of the circuit breaker money so that Silver Lake could afford it and we could we could afford it as a town.
And then Silver Lake was supposed to cut their budget so the elementary schools could go up. >> And what they did was said, "No, it's our money. We're not making that change. >> And and and that's why you saw the elementary school because it had used all its circuit breaker money the year
before to make everything work. >> And so Blake used $1.3 million last year to fund their operations instead of making cuts. >> So the driving factor here is that that rebalancing occurred and Silver Lake
didn't rebalance when they should have. No, that's why it was >> No, they reached out for more money is what they did. >> And they continue to reach out for more money with no justification behind their request for >> science is what it is. >> Until the regional school district can
get their stuff together, we're going to fight this battle every year. >> Yeah. >> The elementary school has made has made cuts over the years, significant cuts and and things that we don't want to see go, you know. So,
>> uh, Mr. Celely, do you have your hand raised? >> I do, guys. Sorry I can't be there. Can you hear me? >> Yes, sir. >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah, I appreciate I appreciate the discourse tonight, guys. I in in my opinion, no idea is a bad idea. I think
we need to kind of [clears throat] throw out stuff and and see what we come to. But just a couple of points of uh clarification. Um, I heard you talking earlier, Jim, about the um about the vocational students. That was $77,000, I think, for all three. Um, and I think
they did have one, as Lindsay said, um, that was applying, but I don't know if they had heard back yet. So, so it's not 77 per student, it was 77, I believe, for all three of those. So, just to um kind of maybe knock down the
expectations of any sort of money in the hundreds of thousands. So, there's that number one. And then number two, >> usually 35,000 are talking about um the the barn rolling off for the middle school uh and Jason Frasier's plan to
use that as a as a stabilization fund and capital fund for the Silver Lake uh level. I do know, and correct me if I'm wrong if if anyone there remembers, Silver Lake at the regional level did make did make cuts to offset that
increase for the town contribution. So, I I want to say it was um three um FTEES and some power is um they did make cuts to offset that increase uh to the town
contribution. Um I don't know if it was a complete wash, but it was pretty close to my understanding. So, while I know they did um you know take that extra money in uh rolling off the bond, they did adjust their budget to compensate for that. So, I don't think it was an
additional 500,000. I think it was close to a wash there. Um, and I agree we we do have to have some sort of stabilization at the Silver Lake level. They did that study that Gordon was referencing where we need, you know, $60
million worth of repairs and upkeep on the building over the next 20 years. So, in my opinion, it was a good plan. But again, I don't want the narrative getting out there that Silver Lake asked for an additional 500,000 because I do believe they offset their operational
budget um to compensate for that extra ask. >> I disagree with that. Disagree, >> Jonathan. It was $300,000 that they added to our assessment. So, they did make cuts, but it didn't cover the cost
>> near the 300 was for the extra assessment. Is that what you're saying, Gordon? >> Yeah, they did. They did make cuts, but our our costs went up by $200,000 just to continue what they have going minus the changes that they made. But then they added $300,000
because that's what dropped off and we had a revenue source for that. So, if you took out that $300,000, again, you could argue whether or not it's good or not, but I I would have made the argument that they should have asked for a capital exclusion for that money this
year for all the towns to say we need this money to do this this one year. It's and it be an override capital exclusion question so everybody knew where the money was. >> Sure. I I just was told by Jason and and maybe I misunderstood this that they
were essentially trying to offset the extra um with operational costs to to make sure that there isn't it was net net close to a zero. >> In no way now when you look at their total assessment numbers and what they spent
>> that's news to me. Thank you. Well, Kingston just certified they have $3.1 million free cash. Does that change anything? >> That changes the fact that they're going to vote the budget. >> It's true. >> So, they're not a no. And and Clinton
doesn't appear to be a no. >> So, it'll be it'll be dumped on us, >> right? Yeah. >> Again, >> our unfortunately. >> Yeah. >> Again. Well, you know, I and I think one of the other one of the you know, we're
we have been behind from a chapter 70 perspective since, you know, since 2022. >> Because chapter 70 funds infl the inflation add-on is capped at 4%. >> So, anything over that inflation wise,
we we lose. So when it was 9% last year, we got a 4% add-on, but 5% of the 5% we didn't get. That's just gone. >> So again, we're now behind the eight-ball yet again. >> And just one issue on the chapter 70
funding, the circuit breaker um equation is doesn't take into account the same metrics that chapter 70 does. So, chapter 70 assumes that you have 1% of the total enrollment is special needs, >> right? >> There's no cap on the threshold for a
circuit breaker. So, if you were capped at, you know, 1% of 500 students, that'd be five students be $250,000 that you're capped at. We're not capped. And that's really the issue with the funding is the special needs part of the
equation. >> [clears throat] >> And >> can I speak one more time, guys, on the free cash thing? >> Go ahead, sir. >> I I just feel like it's deja vu all over again. I mean, we were essentially at
this almost exact same spot last year and we we had to use almost $800,000 in free cash. Um [clears throat] I I feel like we're kicking the can down the road. Uh, and I know it's it's buys us another year, so to speak, but every
time we kick this can down the road, I mean, it's turning into an oil drum. You know, it's getting bigger and bigger, this hole that we're going to eventually have to figure out how to fill. So, I would be really really hesitant on using free cash again because it's it's almost
like it's not a perfect analogy, but it's almost like using your credit cards to pay your bills. Um, and I just it's just bad practice and I don't I don't really think the town should really look into doing it two years in a row. And and again, that's just my opinion and I
know that means some hard decisions and I hope I hope that folks really consider that when they decide whether or not they want to vote for an override. >> Chris Winnowitz, >> uh, Chris Witz, 129 Circuit Street. Steve, when you spoke at the library at the phone the other day, I might have
misheard, but the upcoming overage on the snow budget to be is that already accounted for or is that also coming out of free cash? >> Um, no. We found coverage for that. Lindsay, I believe that was veterans benefits. Um, some retained earnings from uh positions that were not
backfilled for the rest of the year. >> Um. >> Yep. >> So, we should be able to cover. >> So, that's not going to lower the free cash. Okay. >> So, we do have enough coverage in house now. >> Yeah. Okay, >> that's pretty good news. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, cuz that was like 165,000.
>> And didn't the state say they were going to reimburse some some of that? >> Yeah, you just you end up waiting about 18 months to 24 months. >> Couple more couple more months. >> 2029, I think. >> End of the next big next big snowtorm. >> Never.
>> Mary, we'll get it by the next big. [clears throat] So, I'm more um I'm I'm concerned that the override will not pass because of the fire. I think the older generation and the people who have experienced situations in town that have desperately
needed the fire and whatever are they are hard no on that they're really concerned about the override. So, I don't know if they're going to say yes, they're super mad about the school because of one thing or they believe one thing. I don't know if [snorts] the
override doesn't pass, what's going to happen? Like, if we have only so many fire people and we have all these 400, you know, these new units coming in over there, what are we going to do? Like, realistically, what will we do? Just we can't use all the other towns for all
their all their, you know, backup because they're all going to be losing stuff, too. Is there another plan? Is there an option? I'd be interested to see how the seniors come out because there was almost a hundred at Hinrich Hall that came to see the chiefs talk
about the lack or the changes the proposed changes in the um in in the services that would be in town [clears throat] and they explained it um pretty thoroughly. So, >> but they're also saying on the other hand they can't afford it >> afford it. Um, their impact is $30 a
year. >> They just theirs. That's all it is is they have >> at the at the mobile home estates. Yeah. >> But what about the res? I mean, I'm a senior citizen on a fixed income. >> I can barely afford what I'm paying for taxes now, right?
>> Yeah. It's based on your home value. I mean, that's, you know, the way it is. >> Luckily, I don't have >> Don't underestimate what's going to come out of mobile home states. We got to be frank. >> Don't underestimate what's going to come
out of the mobile home states. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think they >> I didn't realize that tax burden was so low. >> Yeah. >> We had 7 to 11 people show up at the other meetings we had. They had over a hundred there. >> It's because the parcel is taxed as one unit, >> right?
>> As opposed to 430 separate units. But their assessment might be updated this year where they're still well under assessed where they were previously. >> I would hope so because >> they they sold for $26 million >> and it's currently assessed at like 115.
>> Yeah. >> So if that assessment jumps >> that changes that >> it should it should >> should. >> So that doesn't go into effect till next fiscal year. >> Yeah. We're doing that's what all the cyclicals are right now. So that will
update the assessments. >> Yeah. [clears throat] So um just to kind of wrap that piece up, I think that um you know it's really up to the legislative body as to what happens with the free cash and that is town meeting and its residents. So there would there are ways to, you know, for
the residents to to create motions and take the free cash and apply it. However, the town wants to apply it. Um, just I personally would do not believe that it is even gap compliant to use onetime funds to meet budget shortfalls. So
>> that would only happen if the override is the third. Is it the third or fourth thing that we vote on or that we discussed? >> It's three and 3A. I think >> it's in the top four. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So that they would only be able to do that if the override >> didn't pass. >> They could do it.
>> I think they could do it at any time. >> It comes first. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It comes first. Yeah. >> What's going to happen is the budget's going to be there be hold items that someone's going to make a motion on the floor to override the original [snorts] budget, >> right? >> To either And in this case, they're going to say free cash because any
reduction in the budget still allocates the full amount of the override. So they're going to doesn't spend it, but it it saves it for next year's fiscal [clears throat] year. It allocates what's what's spent on, what's voted on, and they're going to use free cash. What's going to happen is it's going to go fire and then COA and then police.
It's going to keep going. >> So the 140 that we're suggesting, the 200 is not going to stop the 200. It might stop it getting approved at the fire. The motions will not stop. >> So it's not really just the fire that we're funding or the gap that we're funding. We're using all of it. >> But then what happens with that if
that's approved? to people do that they approve at time meeting. What happens at the ballot? Like as far as the whole is there anything that has to happen past town meeting you have to vote on the on the ballot. >> You still have the three just the over >> pointed to election
>> or elect excuse me elected to appointed positions. Um and then if the the override could technically still pass on town meeting floor because they'll bring it up. Um, but I would expect it to not pass at that point and then that question would not be on the ballot, just be struck.
>> So there'd be no allocation of override money. It' be free cash that would be correct. >> It would be free cash that would be allocated. Yeah. >> But but if if the free cash amendment does pass, the override passes, what you would do then at a special town meeting is move that money Yes.
>> into another fund. if if the override passes. >> So you could have both. >> You could technically get both >> technically and then you could have a situation at special town meeting where you're allocating $1.5 million
>> to the capital plan. >> To the capital plan. Yeah. >> So both options are effectively on the question. >> So So effectively both options are on the table still. Okay.
Um All right. So, uh the I I did add a line item on to the um to our agenda for um school budget updates, and I was just curious if uh you've probably been in communication with the elementary school more than I have, but have they been
able to clarify any of the like higher increases that they have in their budget? >> No. Um, we spoke, me and Lindsay spoke with the schools on Friday and the main purpose of that was to begin conversations about coming to an agreement on the net school spending
spreadsheet because that has to be an agreement between >> um the municipality or the town and the schools. >> So that also has to be done through the school committee. So Lauren Laws was on the call, Joe Port was on the call, Stephanie had myself and Lindsay. Um, so
we started talking about that and then just we came up with a monthly schedule to meet once a month moving forward. Okay. >> Um, but that was the main gist of that call. As far as the elementary school itself, I haven't heard anything from over there [clears throat] >> or regarding their budget.
>> The only thing I asked them was if they if the way I designed the budget that will be in this document for town meeting was appropriate for them. >> And we heard back, I believe today. They said it was fine. So, okay. >> People will be able to see the difference between last year's project
and this year, >> right? So, I mean, I'm curious things like instructional hardware going up $33,000 in one year. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. I I would I would imagine that that they would want to provide an
explanation for that. >> It's on the last page. Yeah. >> Does finance meet with the school committee to like go through [clears throat] their budget line at like one by one to see what they're >> No, we don't. We we I go to their meetings um when they're when the
budget's on the agenda, but they don't discuss specific things and they have the autonomy to spend it however they wish once the number is approved. >> So, we can't say you you need to spend it in these places. We they get a bucket of money and they distribute it as they
see fit. [snorts] >> They technically do the technical update for the budget in November when they go those types of items what they have for primary and textual books. That's when
they bring in uh Steve Pellet to do his update. Stephen, did so did did you get closer in that meeting to the net school spending number that you agreed on or not even? >> No, we're just talking about the
formula. Um, as far as this year goes, um, it's really just the fixed cost and again, I mean, the whole conversation about that is just understanding the fact that um, there is a shared cost that goes back between the schools and the town. Um, and there is an agreement
that historically is in place to the top that speaks more so outside the fixed cost than to the agreement that the town has with the schools as far as other services that the town makes available to them, whether it's payroll, health benefits, uh, or benefits administration,
um, snow and ice removal, um, mowing the fields maintenance, stuff like that. So um that's sort of the things we need to talk about but I believe just in fixed costs in general% increase million dollar >> and again so when you take the the
budget numbers and decrease,000 in there to a number that's still within that >> as far as regretting it through the eighth [clears throat] round. So, um, but hopefully we'll get that and those discussions happen more in depth
during the school committee meetings from what I understand. We're actually talking about um the formula itself and the percentages that are used, right? >> Um, again, that's stuff that I don't know um enough about yet, but I'm trying to learn. So,
>> okay. >> Moving forward, can that ever be changed that their budget numbers that they don't have line? I believe that is state law. >> State law. >> So we can't we can't pass bylaws to
change state law unfortunately. Okay. So we'll close out that agenda item and we'll move on to correspondence and as may arise. And uh for correspondence I think we'll start with Frank. He got an email this week. >> Yes. I got an email from uh Scott over
in uh buildings and um he was [snorts] just throwing a couple things around on ways to um minimize some of the snow budget with outfitting uh certain vehicles in the water department and the building
maintenance department with snow plows and utilizing them for snowing operations, snow cleanup operations versus outside contractors. And um the trucks are qualified to meet that for snow plow equipment. I think they
have one or two trucks between both areas that have currently have snow plows that they could use. And then they would look at upgrading two or three more trucks with a plow kit on them. And uh Scott's going to get some rough numbers of cost associated with that.
And what we would need from um probably Lindsay is the um what do we pay what did we pay out during this last storm or the last couple of years actually in cost to um outside vendors that are operating the pickup truck units versus
the the bigger truck the six wheel trucks and stuff because there are different rates associated with that. We should have a breakout on what we're paying our our suppliers for those types of units. So, it's something I told him we we would discuss >> and um just kind of see if that can
>> can come into play going into next year maybe. >> Good idea. >> Okay, Lindsay, you had something to add. >> Um I was just going to say that I can get that information. I do know that we already did the early sign on for next
year, the bonuses for the contracts. Um, so I don't know what would have to come for come of that. Um, but I can definitely look into it and talk to Kathy or Steve. >> Okay. We already distributed the cash
for next season FY27 for bonuses. >> So there is an early sign on bonus that we did already pay. Yes. I don't know when they have to apply, sign up. I
don't know any of those >> conversations or anything like that, the contracts for that. But yes, we already did pay those. >> Well, problematic in my mind. >> Yeah. pay bonuses in this fiscal year for
fiscal year 27 >> early sign up. Yeah. >> Do you know how much the cost of each bonus was for early sign up? >> I do not know off the top of my head. No, >> it's based on the type of equipment that they're using. They're all it's a scale
based on the size of the array that they're providing and stuff. >> I think it's worthwhile looking at all and that's what Scott's point was. We need to reevaluate that. >> Yeah, I like that. >> It's Yeah, if there's if there's cost,
you got to weigh it out. You have to see the numbers to it out over time for employees. >> Yeah. >> They're working overnight, 12 hour shifts, hour shifts. >> Yeah, because you know it's going to be overtime. So, you have to factor that number. >> Um cost of the upgrades to the trucks to
get the equipment on there. Um there's the fuel cost, you know, all those little tangibles are have to be factored in, you know, >> but in light years that could also save us those contractual we don't have to pay them out, >> right?
>> I guess I don't know how the bonus program works, but I guess you get paid the year in advance. So >> yeah, nice still next year. You've already gotten paid. >> I have no comment until I have the date in front. >> That would be my position.
All right. Anything else on that, Frank? >> No, I think that's good. And uh um like I say, Scott, you know, I thought it was a good idea you brought to the table and uh thinking outside the box a little bit, >> looking at the future. You know, he knows he knows how tight the money is >> and plus keeping those keeping the money
in house, too. And I understand that to a degree. >> Keeping it in with the with the current employees, you >> right? No, that certainly makes sense. >> Okay. I think on the other on the other uh piece of correspondence is everybody got the email that Gordon had sent. Um
so he sent that to the finance committee. I believe he sent it to the selectman also. Um and we had a robust discussion about that earlier. Do we have anything else we want to add to that? Okay. So we will move on from that. So um moving into public participation
outside of the discussions and questions we've already had. Does anybody online or here have any questions for the finance committee? Um, real quick, just to clarify, so the early sign on bonus, if they've signed on prior to October of this fiscal year,
then that's the bonus that just got paid out. So, it is not for next year. >> Okay. So, it is for FY26 then and not 27. >> Yes. >> All right. Well, that makes more sense. >> Yeah. [laughter] feel better. >> Yeah, it does.
>> I got to pull some of that back in. >> Okay. >> All right. Um, hearing no other public participation, uh, we'll move into next meeting planning. So, for everyone's information, I've already put an agenda in for next Monday at town meeting. Uh,
5:30 at the school at the teachers, uh, break room for us to meet ahead of time. I believe there's a couple of um warrant articles we still need to kind of discuss and vote on uh which we will do at that time. >> Um and um
I think that's about all the business we have tonight. Uh Mr. Solvo, anything else? >> No, I don't think so at this time. >> What time is the meeting Monday? >> 5:30. >> 5:30 at um the school. >> 5:30 at the elementary school teachers break.
>> Yeah. Uh just want to make one real quick comment before we close is um that's something we want to look at with a select what's they have a meeting tomorrow night. >> No. >> Yeah. So we're not going to make the uh
we select want to move it the town meeting >> they would have to do it the night of town meeting. >> Yeah. [clears throat] Yeah. >> Right. You can call something. You can call something >> a sign on the door
>> for Thursday >> at this point. >> Oh, so they have a couple of days if they want to kick the can around a little bit. >> Yeah. >> All right. I don't know if that's going to get us any closer to res. >> I don't think it's I don't think it's going to benefit anybody and I believe
it would just cause great angst across uh across the cost >> if we did that. Right. >> Yeah. with um but it's something to think about going forward for next fiscal year. We have a little bit of a window here to think about that. >> It's a valid point. >> Yeah, it is.
>> I agree. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, we're going next Monday. >> We're going next Monday. >> 5:30. >> 5:30 at the elementary school. >> Where's the Halif teachers room? It's uh down always. >> And the newest member of the finance
committee needs to bring to >> bring regular brownies. >> Regular brownies. >> Yeah. Don't put anything special. [laughter] >> Nothing special. >> Okay. Cheryl, >> is there a motion to adjurnn? >> So move. >> Second. >> Thank you. Roll call vote. Cheryl,
>> yes. >> Mike Bennett, >> yes. >> Frank Johnston, >> yes. To adjourn, please. >> EJ, >> yes. Mike Retta. >> Yes. >> Rod Hemingway. >> And I'm a Yes. as well. Thank you all for attending. >> See you next time. >> Bye.
>> Bye.