WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=ByXwTjKVUnA

Part: 1

1
00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:36.480
my watch. It's 7:00, so we'll call to order the town of Halifax Planning Board meeting for Thursday, June 4th, 2026. We are meeting in the selectman's meeting room, also known as meeting room 1,

2
00:00:36.480 --> 00:00:57.360
at 499 Plymouth Street here in Halifax, which is also the town hall. And I need to announce that the planning board meeting is being recorded by Area 58 and can be viewed on YouTube. We've got kind of a light agenda here.

3
00:00:57.360 --> 00:01:14.640
Um, I suppose we should still approve it. Anybody want to give forth a motion? >> Make a motion to approve the agenda as written. >> I get a second. >> Second. >> Move and seconded to approve the agenda.

4
00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:29.360
All those in favor? >> I. >> I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I also want all those opposed. Eyes have it. I want to announce uh that uh we have not a full board meeting tonight.

5
00:01:29.360 --> 00:01:45.439
President uh Jamie Walsh, myself, Tom Millius, Burke Gainer, and Amy Troop. Bruce Sylvester is not with us this evening. He had an engagement to attend. >> What about the um town?

6
00:01:45.439 --> 00:02:01.920
>> What about him? >> So, I mean, he's not here. He was here, now he's not here. Like, what's going on? Um, I have not been told anything official. I don't believe he is going to be functioning as town planner. I don't believe they have the position filled.

7
00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:20.640
So, we're not uh we're not anticipating any involvement by any type of planner. >> Oh, that's good. >> Uh, under appointments, we have the affirmation letter for the uh solar project on Summer Street. Um,

8
00:02:20.640 --> 00:02:35.760
we had voted uh the conditions and to authorize the chair to sign it, but I didn't know if anybody wanted to have an opportunity to read it. Before we sign it, do you want to review it? >> Yes, sir. >> Those are the conditions we talked

9
00:02:35.760 --> 00:02:56.319
about. >> I'll read it into record. May 27th, 2026. Richard Richio 11D Industrial Drive, PO Box 1178 Matis at Massachusetts 072739. Um,

10
00:02:56.319 --> 00:03:13.040
dear Mr. Rigio at a meeting held on Thursday, May 7th, 2026, the Halifax Planning Board voted 421 to approve your application for the site plan modification number PSPR262

11
00:03:13.040 --> 00:03:30.720
submitted on April 21st, 2026 with final revision plans date dated May 15, 2026 by Richard Rigio on behalf of the property owner Kosai Nzella for construction of a solar array to contain 2,934

12
00:03:30.720 --> 00:03:47.120
modules said to be located at 69 Summit Street, Halifax, Mass, as shown on assess map 88, lot six with the following conditions. One, contingent upon approval from the conservation commission. Two, the apron

13
00:03:47.120 --> 00:04:03.760
being included in the entry exit egress as requested by the highway department. C or three, pri prior to construction, the fence must be constructed according to the plan. D construction on Saturdays to include

14
00:04:03.760 --> 00:04:20.400
the privacy slots on the fence bordering the soccer fields. In making its decision, the planning board reviewed the criteria listed in chapter 16728H of the code of the town of Halifax as part of site plan review and was assured

15
00:04:20.400 --> 00:04:36.240
that the use of the property was reasonable based on the criteria listed in the bylaw. Any change in the use, the scope of the use or the location of the business will require a new or modified site plan review and approval. Any relief requested by the applicant which

16
00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:52.160
is not expressly granted the care under is hereby denied. The following are the votes of each planning board member on the application. Thomas Millers chair yes. Robert Gainner vice chair yes. Amy Troop clerk no.

17
00:04:52.160 --> 00:05:10.479
Bruce Sylvester yes. Jamie Walsh yes. Sincerely Tomius. I have a couple of things. Um, number one, the contingent upon approval. We should put a date that it did happen and the exact um plan

18
00:05:10.479 --> 00:05:25.360
number so that we can reference that and be sure that it doesn't change. >> Isn't the plan number in the first paragraph? Um well where we have a contingent upon conservation and it was before the 30 days I just think and

19
00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:41.039
we're signing this and we have the information on what date it was approved by conservation. We should add the details in there to cover the town of Halifax and make sure that it has a reference to a plan. Um, we

20
00:05:41.039 --> 00:05:59.199
just had uh 285, I believe, 285 Home Street had four or three plans that were gone through after they were contingent by the planning board, not following the bylaws of making sure that all other

21
00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:15.759
boards give us their comments within 30 days. And I think it's important to note because that is expressly why I said no to this is because we weren't following the Halifax bylaws. So it should be detailed within here which plan

22
00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:32.000
conservation did approve and whether or not that May 15th plan still is approved by that conservation. Um the apron I think it should be a little bit more defined. Would you like

23
00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:48.960
a copy of the court order >> prior to constru construction of the fence being constructed according to the plan? Um I think that it should be a little bit more defined and construction on

24
00:06:48.960 --> 00:07:04.080
Saturdays to include the privacy slats. That's a sentence that kind of goes grouping two subjects together. And um I would like to have labeled times on the Saturdays and have that be separated

25
00:07:04.080 --> 00:07:20.479
into a few different sentences. And I think that the applicant should be listed as the applicant and we should have the address of the property not just in the body but Richard Richio is using a certain property on Summit

26
00:07:20.479 --> 00:07:36.720
Street and therefore that should be actually listed on this. I think there's a lot of work to be done. >> Would you like to make a motion, Amy? Would you like to write a motion? >> I just believe I just >> Would you like to write it? I'm asking.

27
00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:54.080
>> I will uh work on it during the meeting >> and then uh we can all take a look at it and see what we think. >> Sounds good. >> Mr. Anybody have a problem with that >> for the >> But we already Yeah. approved the conditions. >> Okay. Is it uh Gordon Andrews, 244 Home

28
00:07:54.080 --> 00:08:09.759
Street? Um you said that you you didn't review the previous um order of conditions when you wrote this one. So is it is it possible to get a copy of that order of conditions? My

29
00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:25.759
concern so that Mr. Gardner, Miss Troop knows the glare if there's any glare on the soccer field that this that over there. I had commented that we probably need to find a copy of the original order. So that's why we did not sign it.

30
00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:45.200
Thank you. Anybody have any comments, gentlemen? No. I'm going to move on to discussions. Um some of this tonight's going to get cut pretty short. Um but before I do that, has everybody had a chance to review the meeting minutes? I have them physically here if anybody wants to look at them.

31
00:08:45.200 --> 00:09:02.399
>> I haven't. Yeah, I too. I just want to make sure when we get to that somebody had time to look at them. Um, we have Jerry Joy with us tonight from the zoning bylaw review committee. We discussed the idea of reviewing the

32
00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:17.440
zoning bylaws in particular, but all the bylaws for that matter. um and wanted to try to see if we can get some background as to how the last attempt at all of this kind of came about and where where we're at with

33
00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:34.240
it, where the committee's at. Uh right now, um the committee itself has not been back in session. I mean, what I wanted to do was see what's going on tonight and then I'll send out an email to everybody and make sure that they still want to be on the committee. we're we're we're good

34
00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:52.160
until uh 2030 as far as the committee is concerned. So, I'll send out an email after tonight's meeting and decide, you know, if they want to be on it and that and we'll just continue and then we'll start setting up the meetings and see what kind of procedures we're going to go forward to. But I want to see first

35
00:09:52.160 --> 00:10:08.320
what the planning board is deciding what they what you want to do, >> right? Because what we've done, unfortunately, I would like to say that I can give you all copies, but I've given the building inspector one. I give you one here. You can make copies of I

36
00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:24.160
tried downloading it from my own computer and it didn't print the way I saw it on the on the screen. >> This is what was presented at >> this is what we have. That was our final. >> That's our final. >> Uh,

37
00:10:24.160 --> 00:10:40.480
>> do you mean that for the town meeting in 2025? >> Yes. >> So that's the one that we denied. >> That's the one you denied. Yes. >> So then we would we revert back to the >> Well, we spent a lot of time this year and we spent a lot of time and plus we

38
00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:57.360
had legal counsel go through it and make sure that it was within this the state rules and regulations. Uh, if there was some things that you didn't like in it, then let's look at it. I mean, everything in there, you can't be saying that we don't like any of it.

39
00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:12.320
>> I don't know how much you've read this year if you if you've gone through it, >> but not all of it got changed. >> Not all of it got changed. There's a lot of things which is procedural, >> right? >> I mean, one thing I I would like to have done is to make sure everything is alphabetical.

40
00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:28.079
that to me like when you look at the everything in there, it goes from agriculture to uh trailer parks, it's it's nothing's an order. So if you ever if you're going to go up and say here's here's my throno, what do I do? And you look at it and nothing's in alphabetical

41
00:11:28.079 --> 00:11:42.959
order. So now you got to go through the whole the whole system, all the pages to find out little things that pertain to what you're looking for. The other thing I I grouped everything well trying to have everything everything grouped. So if you're looking at say multif family

42
00:11:42.959 --> 00:11:59.760
housing, everything in the in the bylaws is now under multif family housing. It's not one item over here at 16722, another item over here 16715. Everything is now >> that's where problems happen in all

43
00:11:59.760 --> 00:12:17.200
bylaws. You get a piece of it here and then some other procedural element of it somewhere else that conflicts with the original part of it. >> Exactly. So, we try to do is is have everything listed right in there and and we've gone through a bunch of stuff. Some of the old stuff that uh should be

44
00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:33.839
taken out. I think we've taken some of it out. I mean, you had the uh the ADRs. I mean, that section is in there. We've taken out all the in that's all been removed. So, there's a lot of things in there that is that's been done. So, to say that, you know, let's start all over

45
00:12:33.839 --> 00:12:51.279
again, I think, is kind of foolish. Let's look at this one here and if there things that you don't like >> discuss >> I think that it should be maybe a talking back and forth but we should start from the actual certified copy

46
00:12:51.279 --> 00:13:07.040
that's voted on by the town. I mean that was clearly passed over by the town and completely denied by all the >> That's true. That's true. But that's what we that's that's what we compiled over over what nine months to a year. So, we previous had a zoning bylaw

47
00:13:07.040 --> 00:13:23.360
review committee that was nine people and I have all the notes from that that we were going forward and doing the alphabetization and I have all the notes from that still. So, and we spent a lot of time on that as well, >> but we really didn't get that far on it.

48
00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:39.760
We were doing really well because we were using the base of it and we were going through it and then we cut the board in August of 2024 to five members made it so that nobody on planning was on it and you presented

49
00:13:39.760 --> 00:13:56.720
it and it got completely failed because you didn't have anybody that except for yourself that knew zoning. And so ba basically what I'm stating is is like you can't you're bas you're trying to say let's work from a

50
00:13:56.720 --> 00:14:12.639
completely denied >> that was we just didn't bring it forward. >> Yeah. It never came up. It was passed over. >> It was passed over >> five to zero. The planning board said that >> we didn't endorse it. >> But >> and that's why it didn't go to a vote. >> Did you present anything from the planning board saying here's what we

51
00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:28.480
don't like about it? >> Yes. You can watch the video on the hearing. >> Well, I mean in paper. You know, the video you can take a million things out of the video, but that doesn't do much because the video the video really goes to what uh

52
00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:44.160
>> three or four items. >> No, I went through the entire bio. All right. >> Not not a video. >> I did. >> Well, I'll have to watch it. But what I'm saying is we spent a lot of time to not look at this year fully look

53
00:14:44.160 --> 00:15:00.959
at it and say what you don't like bring up. >> I I think looking at what was proposed opposite what we've had is the way to go. What the changes are if we need to specifically list the changes. Is that

54
00:15:00.959 --> 00:15:18.720
the changes or corrections or >> things that you modified? Are they listed separately so that you could track? >> You you had a red line version that you posted. >> There should be one that one it has it all in it. I'm not sure.

55
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:33.760
>> Yeah, the red line would be good. >> Yeah, that's that's Yeah, >> there was a red line. >> What was there? What changed? Unfortunately, like I say, I tried to go in and and download this here, but obviously I was looking at the wrong spot because it wasn't coming up. So, I

56
00:15:33.760 --> 00:15:51.360
got this here from the uh this was sent out by the legal department. >> I think what we need to do, I mean, we need to discuss how we want to approach this. You need to your group needs to approach it, see how they want to come at this and what we could do together. I

57
00:15:51.360 --> 00:16:08.000
think one of the things that I like to do uh would like to do because I think it can be quicker um is is look at 167 specifically the zoning bylaws, not necessarily the general bylaws immediately. Um cuz the

58
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:24.079
zoning bylaws have a you know immediate impact on enforcement issues. Um some of those are really ancient. Um we need to at least look at them. Maybe we need not discuss them and see if they were addressed in the last meeting or transition or not.

59
00:16:24.079 --> 00:16:40.959
>> Now, there was some money that was it a grant that the town had gotten or did the town fund that? I don't remember. >> Uh I think in this case I think the town funded >> funded it. >> I think Amy did was that a grant that we had the last time? >> No. Okay. >> Is is there anything left in that

60
00:16:40.959 --> 00:16:57.360
account? the finance committee move the finance committee made a motion on town meeting 4 to have it funded. So I want to say it was like $50,000. >> I just don't honestly 60 came to mind but I'm not sure if that's accurate

61
00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:13.919
60,000. >> Yeah I think 50 is is more >> more more >> Yeah. I had a question. >> Yeah. I was going to say is anybody keeping like a PDF word of document here of changes, remove this, insert that so that everybody can uh can go to it and

62
00:17:13.919 --> 00:17:30.240
review it. I mean, you think that that would be the way to do this cuz then you could strike it >> and then you could add the new line item into it. I'm particularly concerned about just making sure we multifamily zoning, right? That we keep that strong because I'm sure that they're going to come back and try this again. So, we

63
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:46.000
need to make sure we tighten that up. But, um >> I'm sorry, what was that? I use a multi family. I'm feeling even though Hell's on a pretty strong message, >> I feel like this will never end, but they're going to keep asking, keep doing it. >> So, we have to keep aware of that. >> Well, if we loosen up the bylaws, I'm

64
00:17:46.000 --> 00:18:01.919
concerned about that. >> Oh, sure. I mean, on the multif family housing, uh I think there was how many rulings did we have to come back from the code? I think we just we need to kind of assemble those. >> We have to get all those together. And yes, there are certain things that have to be changed, you know, taken out.

65
00:18:01.919 --> 00:18:17.679
There's things that are missing completely and we didn't we don't address in our bylaws any ADU references the state I mean pretty much laid out there we >> voted against that >> but and that's what we have we we have taken that in this year that that's

66
00:18:17.679 --> 00:18:32.960
included in >> but I believe that we voted against you the >> you can't you can't >> okay >> that's statute that's mass law >> but that's against property rights so in order to say no to MBTA housing. You

67
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:48.320
have to say no to all m all mandates from the state or else you're picking and choosing and that's how they get you. >> Listen, it's all extortion. I think everybody knows extortion but >> at the end of the day it's also statute

68
00:18:48.320 --> 00:19:04.400
and you know we can rail against the laws but we're not going to win in that. The other item that kept coming up was in-law uh apartments with a open 6ft door and all that stuff and that that needs to be taken. >> It there was a lot of things like that

69
00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:21.360
that I I always >> cuz that wasn't by >> that was just tradition, >> right? But I'm saying like all of that in-law stuff needs to be tossed by the attorneys that it was illegal to begin with. So it should have been >> that's all taken up in in this this last

70
00:19:21.360 --> 00:19:36.240
goound. There was a lot of things I wanted to put into that in law because there was a lot of things I didn't I didn't like. >> Well, honestly, >> so I made up a bunch of things and then also they passed the ADU. So, we just take >> the ADU pretty much overrides it all anyway. It really kind of replaces it,

71
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:52.720
but but we need to address it and you know, some towns do it a little differently. They exceed it in areas with special purpose. I'm not saying we need to do that, but we need to look at it. Um >> there's a lot of other things in there

72
00:19:52.720 --> 00:20:09.440
too, especially in the signs. A lot of things that we have in the signs u brought to our attention that it's the state won't allow it. >> Yeah. Yeah. And we have we have more pages on signs than anybody. >> But you know, but if you if you read through it, I'll tell you I've read

73
00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:25.919
through it and they are they're logical. They they are all logical and I understand you don't want to have flags out there and and you know there's a lot of things that you don't want >> but a lot of the bylaw is strictly you know construction related that that doesn't necessarily have to be in the

74
00:20:25.919 --> 00:20:41.840
bylaw but again everything needs to be looked at. So, the way I see it, and please every anybody jump in, um, is you folks need to kind of talk about a framework and we need to talk about what we'd like to do and how we'd like to do it and see how

75
00:20:41.840 --> 00:20:58.960
we can mesh and and help each other in this thing. Um, >> I mean, that that's fine. I mean, my personal I that's the framework no >> that we've gone through and uh >> there's going to be uh of course there's going to be issues. Yep.

76
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:14.320
>> But that's that's that's the stop. >> That's that's that's probably where you've done all that work. >> I I don't think I there's is there any of that money left or any at all? >> I have no idea. >> We can ask.

77
00:21:14.320 --> 00:21:30.080
>> I got that. Go ahead. >> Uh what's the zoning board of appeals opinion on this? Have you brun despite them or or or got any reaction or >> there was I was we brought up a a number of times as to what was going on. I

78
00:21:30.080 --> 00:21:46.400
asked for everyone's opinion. Is there is there something in the zoning bylaws that you don't like that's always controversial that we have coming up and there was a few things and a lot of it was in law province but uh they they agreed about what we were

79
00:21:46.400 --> 00:22:02.880
doing as far as doing it. Was that itself reviewed like almost page by page by the CDA? >> No, we never had that done. >> That there's also some controversy um surrounding pre-existing nonconforming whether in fact you need to get a

80
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:17.280
special permit as long as you're not making the property more nonconforming if you're staying inside the original conforming. Those are all things we need to look at bounce off the needle at the same time. I'm sure there's there's a lot more things that are in there that and that's that was the key thing. You

81
00:22:17.280 --> 00:22:32.240
know what what is bothering everyone that's in the zoning bylaws that needs to be corrected. >> Yeah. And you know, times have changed. Some of these here are probably, you know, I think the uh if you if the

82
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:49.120
renovation is over 50% of your value, I think that's >> almost anything is 50% to be changed or just eliminated, >> right? >> I mean, why can you why do you have to say to someone that if they want a big kitchen that's going to cost them

83
00:22:49.120 --> 00:23:04.799
$100,000, why how can you say to them, "No, you can't have it." Going back historically, the reason that a >> that's a dangerous by I don't think >> that was specifically put in for pre-existing non-conforming structures. >> Yeah, I understand that.

84
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:21.679
>> So, so that if you had a 2400t lot or a 4,800t lot and you were going to do that kind of addition, you're not going to meet your setbacks anyway. But, you there was just another control factor. But I mean, I think we've seen it a couple of times where

85
00:23:21.679 --> 00:23:37.520
>> it's it's not just so much in the lake region where the where everything's confined, >> but you have somewhere else and all of a sudden that's that's one of the problems. >> It's going to you're going to spend too much money over the value of your home. >> Yeah. And and I mean that's wrong. >> It also gets kind of >> somebody wants to spend money on their home, let them.

86
00:23:37.520 --> 00:23:52.080
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> It also gets tricky, too, because who determines what the value of the house is? It's usually the assessment. Correct. Which isn't necessarily market value. >> No. Even legally, it only has to be within 10% one way or the other. But, you know,

87
00:23:52.080 --> 00:24:08.240
those things fluctuate. You know, the volatility with the market. >> I mean, there's another one in there that says the the foundation has to be what within 2 ft of the crest of the road. >> Yeah. Was it 100 ft back has to be 2 ft above the center line of the road?

88
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:23.440
>> The crown of the road. Yeah. Which is usually center. And I can tell you just just looking at the house that it's way below You can go down Elm Street and there's probably what maybe two homes in that whole street.

89
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:41.279
>> Yeah. That that hasn't been in in the bylaw since day one. >> That's why you're right. >> You know, I mean that it's one of the disadvantages of being old. Uh the reason that came about was

90
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:56.000
there was some issues with some properties where the street runoff was running down onto the property and they were complaining that you know they're getting all this street runoff. So Ralph at the time Ralph Haywood said all right I'll fix this. >> Yeah. I mean I understand the reason for

91
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:11.200
it but I mean when you look at the just topography of the you know >> Yeah. >> Well it's preventing the problem in the future like you know subdivision control like was put in to prevent overdeveloping which caused huge problems when we had

92
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:27.600
condos in the 70s and the 80s that then overpop populated our schools so badly that we the state put in something to actually control that. So the reason that um it's it's not because I don't think that this kind of development

93
00:25:27.600 --> 00:25:44.000
isn't like great someplace, but in towns that can't for hold the infrastructure, it's suicide. So that's why it's so important to stick by the bylaws, especially when the town's people have purchased their homes with the idea that

94
00:25:44.000 --> 00:26:00.080
these are the bylaws. if they've been properly consulted during their real estate um transaction, then they know what's going on around them and they don't want these things. So to just say that like that's why I'm saying, "Yeah, I know you did a lot of work, but

95
00:26:00.080 --> 00:26:14.799
there's a lot of things in here that I would scratch off and I would gladly do that." I would agree with you on the fact of taking out the 50% of the cost that that Yeah, absolutely. I think that's something that should come out

96
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:31.760
because that's to me up to somebody's, you know, they might be in love with a house that was their parents that had something wrong and they want to fix it and they want to put money into it, whatever the case may be. I mean, this is the freedom of America. But that but

97
00:26:31.760 --> 00:26:49.120
to allow all these different things just because it's a different time is to me property right stealing. And um that's why from a realtor standpoint, I'm going to tell you that I sold houses to people that think that something can't happen in the backyard. And what happened over

98
00:26:49.120 --> 00:27:04.640
on M Pontet Street to the people that live there since the 70s is devastating. And it was absolutely abhorently wrong to have their bylaw just allow for an overlay like that. Which is why that

99
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:20.320
bylaw review committee never should have been dropped to five people. So, can we make a movement to make that back to the nine people with two planning, two zoning, and cuz you guys went down to five people and you were the only one

100
00:27:20.320 --> 00:27:37.360
who knew zoning. The only one. >> Yeah. And >> I mean, I'm not saying I'm an expert in zoning by by any means, but you have a lot of people that have good insight. And that's you want different perspectives of what we have we talked back and

101
00:27:37.360 --> 00:27:53.840
forth. We argued on different items and and one of the things they probably wanted to shut down. So, I mean, it >> it was a it was a lot of money. >> I I think nine people is is too much. I really do. I I >> Well, that's >> my question was what what did the

102
00:27:53.840 --> 00:28:08.799
planning board at the time not like about it? >> I for me personally I thought it was overwhelming. I thought it was too big, too much to present at a town meeting. And my experience over the years has been when you get something that's so

103
00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:24.000
big that nobody can put wrap their head around, they typically don't know. >> Yeah. >> Because I I don't know what this says, so I'm going to vote no. >> Would the solution to that then? almost go by >> almost go by section by section. You

104
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:41.440
know, let's work on 167. It may take a little longer. I mean, that's what we are doing. >> Yeah, I think that's the way. I think that's the way to do it, >> which is which is fine uh to do that. >> Try and try and maybe speed it up a little bit because otherwise it's going to take about 5 years.

105
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:57.840
>> Yeah, I would agree with that too. >> No, we need to make a concerted effort. You know, we can't drag it out. I'm sorry. Well, I still have all the notes that we could go back to that point because um I was the secretary. I kept all the notes. I have all of everything according to all the lawyer

106
00:28:57.840 --> 00:29:14.799
documentation, the whole nine yards. And that was when it kind of got destroyed because then it just went off into a totally different direction and everything was dropped. I mean, we have to go from the base of what the people's bylaws are, not just something that's

107
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:32.159
more up to-date. You know, this isn't this isn't what >> Well, the real thing from you right now is you want to take that document and throw it in the waste basket and start again. >> I I went through it and I have it at home off in my town meeting folder that's shows you everything that I like and I don't like, but I do believe that

108
00:29:32.159 --> 00:29:47.840
nine people need to be on it because it isn't about getting it done speedily. It's about the rights of the people of the town of Halifax. This is this is about the people, not Tom's ideas because he's been rewriting the bylaws in the building committee um in the

109
00:29:47.840 --> 00:30:04.480
building office for years. And so I mean, yes, >> I was doing that. >> I have pictures of it, Tom. So, you know, like that's been I'm not laugh all you want, Tom. Everybody knows that. >> You know, you're making this stuff up. I think it's >> okay. I'll bring in the picture next time.

110
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:22.559
>> Yeah. Okay. So it it really happens. >> And you've been trying to you've been trying to do this for a long time. >> Trying to do what? >> So to put it down to a five person board and that to me is there are 8,000 rough people that live in this town and that

111
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:38.240
this is about them. >> Yeah. And so that is why the board needs to sit down and go through them and go item by item like we were doing in a very good manner with nine different people. Two from zoning because they are

112
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:54.399
appointed in no zoning and variances and what happened there. Two from planning because they deal with bylaws that that was reduced. There was zero from planning >> and that >> well I was that because planning didn't participate

113
00:30:54.399 --> 00:31:09.760
>> I don't know on August in 2024 when you guys decided to do all of that and remove planning board member because >> I was against MBTA housing don't act like you don't know if you don't remember okay that was then when you guys then pushed the Thornike project

114
00:31:09.760 --> 00:31:25.520
through. Oh, first off, you know, you you're alluding to the town doing this dastardly thing by approving this overlay district. What you're not also including in that is the fact that had the town not done that,

115
00:31:25.520 --> 00:31:40.880
they would have been forced to into a 40B situation. >> Oh, Tom, >> listen. That's exactly I'll define why you're wrong. I'm sure you can define all kinds of things, but >> well, it's by law that you're wrong because you're telling somebody a

116
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:56.880
salesfish when the whole reason Thornike didn't want to do a 40B at all was because of the multi-million dollar sewer treatment plant that was waved when they had an overlay, Tom. And that's what's written into these overlays in the MBTA law. So, stop lying to people. Well, that first off, the

117
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:13.279
MBTA law wasn't, I don't believe, even in effect at that point. But, um, >> and you know, you're always accusing people of lying, Amy. That's because you're trying to imprandize yourself, but we're not going to do that. >> No, I'm not. I'm telling the truth. We're not going to do these personal attacks at meetings anymore. And you

118
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:29.360
consistently in defense of the town Halifax. >> Well, let's just bring it back. Let's talk about how we can move the bylaws forward in a professional way to for the better of the time, right? Yes.

119
00:32:29.360 --> 00:32:47.039
>> I'm not sure how that's going to look. I don't know who makes a nine board or a five board. I'm very new to this. Um I think I do think nine is too many and I five is typically a good number, but I do think that there should be a representative front planning on that committee um going forward. But I think

120
00:32:47.039 --> 00:33:03.440
the whole idea is it is not to change the bylaws and add multif family housing, add condominiums everywhere. Nobody wants that in this town. Nobody does, right? The town I grew up in is not even the town it looks like anymore. And that's why I chose to move to Halifax because of the open land, because of not a lot of overbuilding.

121
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:19.600
Um, but some of the stuff that we deal with, and I'm saying that I'm new to this board, but the stuff that keeps coming up is the stuff that we're trying to fix, right? not so much rewrite everything and allow condos everywhere. I don't think that's anybody's uh plan

122
00:33:19.600 --> 00:33:35.440
on this board. >> Yeah, I haven't read that document, but I can probably been here a long time. Yeah, >> the bylaws >> easier. Yeah, I would agree. As a newcomer on this board, I read the bylaws uh quite a bit and they are

123
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:52.159
confusing, right? So I think if we can get rid of some of the procedural nuisance that we deal with and make this whole system easier without changing the landscape of Halifax. That's why we all love this town, right? I don't, like I said, I don't want houses everywhere. I

124
00:33:52.159 --> 00:34:09.200
don't want condos everywhere. I want the town to stay the town. But these bylaws are very confusing. They contradict themselves over and over again. So if we can I think for me my goal would be to to to smooth it out and make it a layman

125
00:34:09.200 --> 00:34:24.159
person can understand what needs to be done right because the way that you read it may be a different way that I interpretated and I can probably flip a couple pages and contradict what you said and you can flip a couple other pages and contradict what I said. Right. We're trying to make it so it's

126
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:40.240
bulletproof, keep it the way we want to keep it the town and and go forward that way. I I whatever happened 2024, 2022, whatever, I think we need to let that go and and move forward as this board. That's right.

127
00:34:40.240 --> 00:34:57.359
>> Yeah. 2011. Uh my uh my major concerns obviously we had such a resounding defeat of the MBTA. They even verberated through the state. Okay. So, we don't want to make things easier so that they can get back in around it because that's just going to upset everybody in town, right? So

128
00:34:57.359 --> 00:35:12.880
all I'm trying to say is transparency and a lot you saw the last town meeting for instance without the financial number the people in town just said they held saying that the number was right. >> Right. Correct. So, but my issue to this is saying if you get into this review board, maybe we should have people in

129
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:28.400
our town maybe that could be involved in the writing of these bylaws to be an intermediary between somewhere else and point some people from the town that could be on these bylaws and um you know maybe even in some areas that they have knowledge in or something like that that

130
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:43.680
we look at you know to help uh help review this. There's some smart people in this town. Uh, I'll just say one of the ones like, you know, we just have the water guy. He's a guy that likes to operate a water plant. Here you go. Talk about getting somebody in that knows what he's doing, right? So, the issue

131
00:35:43.680 --> 00:36:00.240
the issue for me is is that we maybe put a call out for something like that to help work on those things as a working group and maybe it and work with uh Terry's team or whatever it is and uh come back and forth between the two. There should be a dedicated Halifax group that looks at what they're going

132
00:36:00.240 --> 00:36:17.520
to live within their town and and go from there. >> Just on a side note, these are open meetings. Anybody is eligible to come and contribute. So that you know, if the board's constituted with five or seven or whatever it happens to be nine, you

133
00:36:17.520 --> 00:36:33.359
know, anybody that wants to come together and present something is obviously able to do that. So nobody's excluded from this. I just didn't want to leave the impression that >> No, understood. But I just think for the town for the town's people, right? It's like if we go through some of this stuff

134
00:36:33.359 --> 00:36:48.320
that you're going to get what you want passed a lot quicker. If somebody Joe from Karen was involved with this, so and so was they've looked at this thing and they back up this or they don't. And uh and also to come back to the board and say, "What are the trouble you've had in the last 10 years with some of these regulations?" Right? Let's go look

135
00:36:48.320 --> 00:37:04.320
at those first. Should they have stayed or should they have not? Right? And then you look at what do we want going forward in the town, right? What do we want these bylaws to be? And maybe there's another piece of that. Um, so I would say somebody's got to be investigation a little bit on it. But why did we do that in the bylaws? I I

136
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:21.119
use examples of utility regulations that we can. Guy said that thing was back before NEMA was or whatever and that's why utilities have these standards cuz somebody killed them before and that's why they had that standard in there. Nobody knew why cuz it didn't make any sense. and then when they explain IG is okay. So, it's like uh that's all I'm

137
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:36.480
saying is I think if you do that, you're going to get a lot more support from the town's people behind all that cuz I think a lot of people think it all behind the closed doors. People are doing these decisions and people are getting upset in the towns. So, I I'm I'm just saying yes, you guys can make these decisions and all that, but I

138
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:53.440
think you want somebody in the towns in those areas to look at. Maybe they'll say you're right on something, right? Or there's a reason why it's not. They need to talk to the different departments and find out what are their concerns and so on. Look at it and say as a team, do we recommend we keep this or move that, right? And I think the town's people

139
00:37:53.440 --> 00:38:10.079
need to be on one of those boards, not some other group that we hire. Don't have any problem with that, but you know, >> everybody on the board is towns people. We're all towns people. So, it's >> they're not other people coming. Maybe I'm naive and we're not trying to, you know, allow MBTA. I voted no for MBTA. I vote no tomorrow for MBTA. I don't want

140
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:26.000
it here. It ruined the town I grew up in. And I don't think anybody's trying to This is This wasn't the intent of bringing up the bylaws to rewrite the bylaws. It was to to to make it >> clearer of what's in there and delete

141
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:41.839
the stuff that's repetitive and not we're not rewriting the whole landscape of >> you if you had a couple of changes for instance are in there. It'd be nice if you do your presentation on here you go on a PowerPoint. Here's what it is. We want to go for this this is the reason why >> they did that. They had the red line

142
00:38:41.839 --> 00:38:56.560
published. They they showed you what they changed and why they changed, you know. >> Yeah. But it get rejected, right? >> It did get rejected and now we're trying to >> Well, the planning board did not endorse it and it got passed over at town. They didn't get voted. It didn't get voted.

143
00:38:56.560 --> 00:39:13.760
It was just up until >> But but at the same time, right? So I agree with that. So the nine member board and I understand it sounds like a lot but it was going very well and we had full quarums. Um >> who not who decides that?

144
00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:28.320
>> The select. >> So >> so but so there was two people that were kind of um uh what do they call them? Um >> at large. >> Thank you. Two at large, two planning, two zoning. But that makes sense, right? because you and I could have a different

145
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:43.920
view on something and then that makes it so that it's balanced and not and it's not >> I'll go seven >> but but then there was a selectman so that they can talk to you about that and and how that goes and the building

146
00:39:43.920 --> 00:40:03.680
inspector and um well he came to meetings but then um I can't remember what the other makeup was but the point of it was so that just like Van was just saying so that you get the point of view from somebody

147
00:40:03.680 --> 00:40:20.240
from each view so that you're not missing something so that you have the history because it means so much. I get like that you think that it might take longer but it's really not about speed cuz putting it all out like this would be overwhelming, right? So if we go

148
00:40:20.240 --> 00:40:36.720
through it and we just go through it and do the little things at once, it's it'll be done correctly and it'll be done with wellthoughtout many points of views because a lot of the reason that I believe this failed is because there

149
00:40:36.720 --> 00:40:53.200
weren't people that actually were in any of the fields except for you Jerry and I say that all the time. >> That's fine. >> But when we I could show you the plan I could show you the notes of everything. So like we were going through and everybody would go home with a homework

150
00:40:53.200 --> 00:41:11.040
assignment of a chapter or two and we would make all the changes and then we would talk about talk talk about them all out loud so that we would come to a concession and that would happen chapter by chapter. And so we were doing that regularly and it was going really well

151
00:41:11.040 --> 00:41:26.640
because then we would be at an agreement on everything like right here and we might have to go back if something from I'm just going to throw something out. It's not going to be legit. But like 16710 when we're in that we'll be like, "Oh, that's going to make me say that we

152
00:41:26.640 --> 00:41:42.160
should add a definition or we should maybe do this or we should maybe do that and like work it out so that the base of our bylaws came out correctly like more as a study group because it means so much because we don't want to just throw

153
00:41:42.160 --> 00:41:58.480
it all up in the air and get rid of some of the historical reasons that things are in there because there are huge historical reasons why some things are in there. >> I agree with you just touched upon one thing over the years. Um, a lot of towns

154
00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:13.599
put things in their definitions but don't put anything in the body of their bylaw. So, you've got a definition for something and what you have >> more about it. There's nothing there, >> right? There's nothing there. Somebody's trying to enforce something that's a definition and and and those are the

155
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:30.720
kinds of things I envision cleaning up. Yeah. >> You know, I it isn't to create anything new. which is clean up. >> Well, then so then that would mean that we would start with our certified copy and not this like we can look at this for reference. I'm not trying to be mean

156
00:42:30.720 --> 00:42:44.640
Jerry. >> Well, what I'm trying to say here is just what you imagine. You want it to be more user friendly. >> Yeah. Okay. So, if you take and this year, it's all in alphabetical order. >> It's a green

157
00:42:44.640 --> 00:43:00.720
>> everything that pertains to I'm going to say multif family housing. It's not one over here, one over there. It's all under that one heading. Everything that pertains to commercial is under that one heading. That's what we did. We didn't change our art, eliminate anything. We

158
00:43:00.720 --> 00:43:16.319
just put it in a correct order. If you're looking for something, boom. I want multif family housing. I want commercial. Everything under commercial is under that. >> Well, there were >> there were a lot of changes in

159
00:43:16.319 --> 00:43:32.960
>> a lot. There were a lot of changes. >> You can take anything you want that you don't like within that multif family housing or commercial or or amusements or trailer parks and say this shouldn't be in here or this should be changed >> or it doesn't make sense. >> It doesn't make sense. I mean you can do

160
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:49.440
that and I mean if you just take 167 which the bulk of the whole zoning anyhow >> forget signs, forget wireless and all the other stuff that they're all in there. But if you just take 167 and go through it, it's all an alphabetic along. It's all condensed and just say,

161
00:43:49.440 --> 00:44:04.560
"Okay, here's what we don't want or here's what we have to change. This this should be changed to say something different so it's not confusing." >> I agree. >> That that's already been done. >> I don't believe that's what >> that is not what this is, Jerry.

162
00:44:04.560 --> 00:44:21.839
>> It is. It's not because it added in there changes in site plan and like you the building inspector then >> is it >> the Yeah, this was in here for site plan. It said >> there is some changes in site planning where we're not asking for a weather >> but it was determined by the well that

163
00:44:21.839 --> 00:44:36.880
wasn't the only change. It would be it would be determined by the building inspector whether or not at different levels of different things and it was way too confusing because then you're leaving way too much in the hands of a building inspector instead of the people

164
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:53.200
that were actually for the town. >> Well, the building inspector is the person that has to enforce it. That's number one. He has to when you have a complaint to come in, it doesn't go to all these committees. It goes to the building inspector. He has to go out and enforce that that ruling.

165
00:44:53.200 --> 00:45:08.000
I didn't agree with how he did plan at all. >> He has to have something. >> I didn't agree with but we're kind of getting into like we but there were changes. >> We're getting into the weeds now. >> Um so let's let's figure out how we want

166
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:23.119
to proceed from here. Um I think everybody I I didn't really expect to do a whole lot with this today except to try to organize it. Well, that's that's what I'm that's why I don't want to send a letter out and say here's what we're going to do because that's not that's not there yet,

167
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:40.000
>> right? Um, so I I I I think for me, I'd like to start with 167 specifically. I mean, I know the general bylaws are in there, too, but it's usually the the zoning bylaws that if you're going to have a problem, it's going to be in that. um and having enforced them for 30

168
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:55.280
odd years, they do conflict and everything's subject to interpretation and you can never get a 100% bulletproof interpretation or by it just doesn't exist >> except for when you find in our bylaw

169
00:45:55.280 --> 00:46:12.720
that it says the uh that if there are two or more things the more um >> restricted >> restricted and that and that's what takes it takes it way. And so I do think that we could clean some of that stuff up, but that still needs to remain in

170
00:46:12.720 --> 00:46:28.880
there because there's still going to be >> talking about taking it out. We we're going to review it. >> But I think that first let's discuss what what the board's going to consist of. We really need to have a a bigger board. >> First off, the zoning bylaw review

171
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:45.839
committee is not our purview. It is the purview. We can re recommendations but you need to find out what they're going to do first and figure out whether how we can participate in that

172
00:46:45.839 --> 00:47:03.200
how many people how to participate. >> The first thing you got to do is send a letter to the the members that are on it now to see if they're still interested in joining >> because we're we're we're we have until 2003rd. That's where we're signed up for. >> Sure. >> So, yes. >> So, how did I get removed then? because

173
00:47:03.200 --> 00:47:19.680
I had an open seat >> on what seat on >> on the zoning by the review. I had an open seat. >> I can't answer that for me. >> I don't I don't know how long that uh that was for. >> It was an open seat. I still have it.

174
00:47:19.680 --> 00:47:35.520
>> Well, you can you question anybody on that. I can't answer the question. >> Yeah. let's move forward from today and figure out how we can do this as this group and and um so I guess the first thing to do is find out who wants to be involved in >> who wants to stay on

175
00:47:35.520 --> 00:47:51.839
>> get back with us if if there's an open seat I would be more than happy to to dive in and and and help out in any way I can appreciate whether joining the community >> the uh the building inspector I sat down with him the other day and uh he was happy to think that we're going to start doing some of this here cuz he wants to

176
00:47:51.839 --> 00:48:08.960
go expand a lot of things but I I said, "I'm on his own." That's so uh >> I don't want to >> unfortunately he is he's he's very busy uh in his own town and everything else that he's doing. I did give him a copy to this. I said, "Look at if you have time, just go through it. if there's

177
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:24.800
something you don't like or we just check it off and let me and let me see it so we can you know I want your perspective because the the other building inspector we had he was he was at the meetings and he come up with a lot of good ideas that because he enforces it >> makes all the difference

178
00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:40.079
>> it makes all the difference I mean that that gave us a better insight as to what what he had to do so and in having the legal department there he said yeah you can't do that we'll look at this here we'll get this here squid away so so there was a lot of things that went on

179
00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:56.240
and and like I say, the building inspector I think was huge because the the fact that Ian is enforcing this all the time and he knows what he's he's going up against and this is what has to change, >> right? And then from our standpoint as members of the board, we

180
00:48:56.240 --> 00:49:13.599
can put it on the agenda every meeting and spend 10 minutes before and just go over a section or go over and get all of our opinions on what >> I think that the we have to start at the selectman and we should have a joint meeting with the zoning bylaw review, zoning board of appeals and the

181
00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:27.760
selectman and the planning board and discuss how a good board should be created in order to be able to do that. I think that's the first start. >> Well, that's who's selecting >> because you because they can they can also dissolve that just like they

182
00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:44.960
dissolve the last board. So, I'm saying that because we need to get the crux of who's going to be in it first. >> Yeah. >> Well, I I like to the basically the line, you know, what what Jerry and and you just said, you need to know who's

183
00:49:44.960 --> 00:50:00.400
starting on the board. You don't need who's on your committee to start with. Wilson's talking about other >> members of participation. Let's see. Let's see who we're dealing with. >> But here's the board. Here's the four years there and there's one more member. So there's five years there. >> Yeah. >> So if you want to bring up anything

184
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:16.559
about 167, all four all five of you can bring it up. >> That's right. >> You don't have to be at a meeting. You can bring it up and say, "Here, here's what we see and here's here's what we're going to do." >> Being part of it and being a an >> part of it. you're part of it because

185
00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:32.640
there's five members here. >> I don't see the value of, you know, if you're talking about more voting members, I don't know that voting members are necessary. I I think anybody can I mean the goal of this whole thing, >> but we'll have a building inspector.

186
00:50:32.640 --> 00:50:48.720
All I want to do is to make it easier when I when I look at the zoning. All I want to do is say it's about I want someone to communicate to build here and how do I have what do I have to look >> I don't want to say b >> the intention is not the six section over here

187
00:50:48.720 --> 00:51:06.160
>> building easier said something else >> it's to make it to make the bylaws clear not to allow people to come in and build easier it's it's to make the and that was that was the whole thing right but more easier to to understand

188
00:51:06.160 --> 00:51:22.960
to enforce us to do whatever you want to do. It's not that we're trying to taking things out, >> right? Just make it make it understand. As a member of the zoning board, we have people come up and have stuff and I'm saying, "How do we do that?" And then the next thing you know, they're they're citing some other

189
00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:38.640
section of the the zoning board. I'm saying, "Well, that's not what this is." And that's how we get into a writing. >> Well, you guys usually don't have the zoning bylaw sitting in front of you. We you I usually read ahead of time because I look at a paper and the paper says that this is the variances that

190
00:51:38.640 --> 00:51:55.920
they're looking for. I look at that. I just I don't need to have a book in front of me. It's nice to have it there. But if someone is coming up and I already know what they're coming up for, I understand. I I look at that. That's all. That's how life would be. I'm not saying it's right, but all I would all I

191
00:51:55.920 --> 00:52:12.079
would say in my end, I like to make sure there's dissenting voices on that group, right? I'd like to make sure if everybody agrees this one, why did you get removed? I like to ask that question because we want to make sure that we've got dissenting voices that are looking at all it's always good to have some

192
00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:28.800
conflict. All right? Because you generally get to your best scenario. I do the whole business world every day. So to me, that's important. I would say uh I would say think about the alphabet ties one because going through this thing your first five pages are all going to be adult vest toys sex toys all that kind of stuff is going to be on on

193
00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:44.559
you open up the thing for the first four or five pages then zoning is going to be last which is probably your biggest problem right so it might I get why you're doing it alphabetically but there may be reasons why they've done that rather than push all that stuff to the front and then if you need somebody else

194
00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:59.680
to help on the committee I would recommend I'd be willing to do something too if that opens up. But I I like the idea of conflict. I do it in my whole world every day. And like tell me why and means this and or means that, right? We do it all the time. Do it lawyers. We do it in contracts that we deal every

195
00:52:59.680 --> 00:53:15.280
day. So all I'm saying is is that I think it's important to make sure that we have dissenting voices here. So the town goes, these people are over here, this is there, but this is what they worked out together. They came for the best interest of the town. And I always when you go to tell me you don't have a

196
00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:31.839
bunch of people running out trying to oh get an override and stop this or do that because they feel like all the voices are heard right away right and so I would just I'm a big belie in a room you work it out and there's different opinions is fine that always works you know and you take the you take it all

197
00:53:31.839 --> 00:53:46.880
the emotion out of it when you're in a room say okay tell me why you don't want to do that okay uh well this is what I want to do okay but what does that mean to the residents right so these all these questions can be asked and then you come come up with the right thing in every event. I agree with it. We all work. We didn't agree, but we all came

198
00:53:46.880 --> 00:54:03.280
up with what we thought was in the best interest of the people at town. So, just throwing that out and um making sure that gets voiced. But I mean, if she's off the committee and somehow that mysteriously happened and I don't think there's an answer here, I'd like to hear that too because if she was a desending

199
00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:19.440
opinion, we just decided to move it to the side. That don't make sense. >> Well, no, it's not that we don't have desending opinions. Every conversation we have in zoning and everything else, we have the same thing. We had onions. >> You don't try to eliminate that, right? >> It was stated on videape.

200
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:35.040
>> It was stated on videotape. They just had hawk remove me because I was against the um MBTA zoning, which is exactly what I think all >> How can you do that? That makes no sense because that's the whole reason you're going to go back and that's another reason

201
00:54:35.040 --> 00:54:56.079
that necessarily school here. I think >> it was on video. Somebody needs to do that and someone needs to view that video whether so we're not constantly throwing our this board did not acceler that that voted for it

202
00:54:56.079 --> 00:55:12.160
>> because number one everyone in the state all you legislators all the people that said oh we'll look into it for you they're full of it >> that's right >> they all voted for it >> they got a 90 something% sent saying we're going to do this here. They had all these other people that town's

203
00:55:12.160 --> 00:55:27.599
building plenty of money. We're going to sue you guys. Boom. They went nowhere. >> They won. >> They lost. >> Jerry, you're wrong. >> I'm not wrong. They lost. >> You want me to tell you why? Because you're actually wrong. They actually won. It was a constitutional law. >> So why are they doing what they're doing?

204
00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:44.240
>> I'm going to explain that to you right now. >> So it was a constitutional law that did not way off track. that did have that did have no way to punish it. So Mara Haley took that and went and made an emergency preamble

205
00:55:44.240 --> 00:56:00.240
where she added the punishment. So Milton did win their case, >> but they but they lost. >> But they lost and they lost. >> No, because they felt it in an emergency. >> We're going to bring this meeting back into order. Let's figure out how we're

206
00:56:00.240 --> 00:56:17.040
going to leave this tonight. I'm going to propose that all the members take whatever materials they can find. If you can find a copy that's redlined, that would be excellent. I don't know what that is. I didn't want to get into that for what we saw. >> Really, if anyone is more experienced in

207
00:56:17.040 --> 00:56:33.839
going into the town uh website and getting a copy of whatever you need, >> please because I I I put every word that you can put in there and come out and give me an answer. And I I not I take anywhere do some investigation. as we

208
00:56:33.839 --> 00:56:49.520
started talking about like that they need to be certifi the bylaws are a very important document and needs to be given by the town clerk not off of the town website and it has to be a certified copy of that which is what this is and the reason is is to be sure that we're

209
00:56:49.520 --> 00:57:06.480
using the right copy okay so that would be the first thing I would say public records um she's she's our town clerk is a girl so she needs to be um able to uh give you that certified copy of anything that went to town meeting. For instance,

210
00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:22.000
that bylaw went to a hearing, she could give you an exact copy of that. Um, and that would be important because then it would be the exact correct document that you would need. >> Okay, I will talk to the >> So, this how we're going to leave it. If anybody has an objection, everybody's

211
00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:38.880
going to take it, digest what gone on, come back with their proposals, and then we'll get together with you again if that okay. >> Definitely. Yeah. I mean, I like to start as soon as possible because the longer you wait the drags on and drags on. It doesn't nothing gets done,

212
00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:53.839
unfortunately. >> Well, I think that it needs to be decided at the select board so we do it right because the last time we spent what we'll find out what the uh remainder of that account is, but spending $50,000 and not having a proper

213
00:57:53.839 --> 00:58:08.799
board is exactly what we just did. So, I don't want think that we should do that again. And we shouldn't repeat history by not having the board. I mean, this is a serious endeavor. >> We had a board. >> You dropped a nine member board without

214
00:58:08.799 --> 00:58:25.760
any We just dropped it to five and you spent about what $40 $50,000 on something. >> How much money was, >> right? Well, whatever the amount is. >> I can't I can't tell you that. And a board. >> Just having a board. You have to have a a board full of quality. I mean, you can

215
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:43.040
you can have food, but if it's not good quality food, you're not going to have good >> I personally think that every member of that board was a quality person. >> I'm not saying that you need to have more members that have different different views. You have to have people from different sections of the town,

216
00:58:43.040 --> 00:58:59.839
including >> just regular members. You can't just throw together five people, two on finance, two on this, two on that. You basically put together a board that had one person who knew about zoning and did zoning bylaws. That doesn't make any

217
00:58:59.839 --> 00:59:16.400
sense, Jerry. And that's why it needed to be that way because number one, it's to protect people's properties. So, I I really think that we should go to the select board with um a non and propose how we're going to get this back to

218
00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:33.359
where it should have been. It's not right by the people. I I think we need to give the zoning blo review committee the opportunity to meet. >> Sure. >> Decide how they want to try to proceed. Talk to the selectman if you so decide by >> then get back with us and then we can

219
00:59:33.359 --> 00:59:49.280
try to figure out some kind of a coordinated plan. I >> I think we should all sit with the selectman and make it quicker and sit down with the different boards. >> Let's select figure out how they want to handle selectment business. Um >> well, we're kind of part of that. So

220
00:59:49.280 --> 01:00:04.720
that's the whole point. >> Well, you if you want to approach him, maybe I I I don't have a problem with you approaching anybody. Um but as far as the board, if the board wants to do it, we'll entertain motions to approach the get a group meeting and do this

221
01:00:04.720 --> 01:00:21.760
correctly with the uh board of selectmen so that we can make a great decision on the zoning bylaws that protect people's property rights. I would like to see the zoning by I will

222
01:00:21.760 --> 01:00:37.359
put the feeler out to see if any of the members want to stay on the board. We'll stop right there. >> Yes. Let's not start adversarial immediately. Let's try to work this out. >> Adversarial. We like this is they just they just created something that didn't

223
01:00:37.359 --> 01:00:52.240
even get to town meeting because it wasn't. >> We have a motion on the floor. Does do we have a second >> to bring it to the slackman to make a good decision? Wow. By virtue of not hearing a second, the motion fails.

224
01:00:52.240 --> 01:01:08.319
I'd like to move move on. I think we kind of have a you know what you're doing here. >> Yep. >> Then we can move on. >> Yeah. And then at the next meeting, if if you're available, we can see what your board gives everybody from this board a chance

225
01:01:08.319 --> 01:01:25.359
to think about how they want to proceed and so we can get going on this thing and do something constructive >> as opposed to just throwing things at each other here. >> Right. No, I appreciate that you you coming up and then talking about this because I was just going to show up one night and just say, "Hey, look, I'd like

226
01:01:25.359 --> 01:01:40.880
to find out why you guys didn't want to u approve the uh the zoning while you passed on it or you wouldn't uh vote on wouldn't support >> because uh to me, I think we just spent too much time on it and you just get a

227
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:58.000
no real response was uh >> you didn't watch the hearing or anything like that. We had a hearing. >> I watched your last meeting. Yeah. >> No, I mean the hearing on the zoning bylaws. You didn't watch it. >> When did you have

228
01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:12.799
>> before the 25? >> Oh, you mean you were on stage? I was part of that meeting. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You were there. >> So then you heard what we thought about the >> Yeah, but I didn't I >> Everybody had a different thought on it too. It would be nice to have everything

229
01:02:12.799 --> 01:02:27.520
on a piece of paper >> after after a meeting like that there if you would submitted something and said the planning board we're not going to approve this here. >> Okay. Why? >> Yeah. >> We didn't have anything. We had no piece of paper. We had everyone just saying I

230
01:02:27.520 --> 01:02:43.040
know you didn't like uh uh the abandoned property. >> Oh, definitely not. >> Yeah. You were totally against that. But no, no, it was the like it. >> Yeah. So, I mean, but there are a lot of things like that, but without a written thing saying, "Hey, here's why we didn't

231
01:02:43.040 --> 01:03:00.720
like that." How can we go back and look at and look at what we what we put out and say, "Okay, so they didn't like this portion of it. We can change this portion." >> That's why we should be on a board together because now you're you're doing all the work and then you're looking for us on why when it would have all been

232
01:03:00.720 --> 01:03:16.799
done while we were reviewing the bylaws. May, maybe, maybe not. But the fact that, you know, if you didn't review it >> or spend the time to read the whole thing and say, "I don't like this. I don't like this. I don't like this." And put it on a piece of paper and send it to us.

233
01:03:16.799 --> 01:03:32.559
>> I think that's what we want to do. That's why we're doing this. >> But that's why we should be part of like there should be people. >> Nobody said we weren't going to be part of it. We just I just think we should give the zoning by review committee an opportunity to meet discuss how they

234
01:03:32.559 --> 01:03:48.960
want to move forward talk to the select and we can all get together at that point once every you know we need a plan they need a plan and then we go to the select >> question I would ask is I mean but this is affecting a lot of the properties and stuff in town directed to that committee should be the fact that you should be

235
01:03:48.960 --> 01:04:06.000
put get the certified copy tracking the changes on the existing document right to give it all to you guys electronically so that everyone tracks who changes what, right? And you at least got to get that output out of the group for 50 grand so that you got a document. It's all electronically covered. You guys get a chance to

236
01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:21.440
comment on each of those pieces of the document and people get to say, well, your name would go after you change the change your names on it and so on. So, everybody knows who did what. Right now, you got a new document that you may not agree to. But rather than saying, here's our bylaws, tell me what you don't like,

237
01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:40.079
tell me what you like, and you can track it. Insert this here. Okay? they would change this down there. There's no tracking of this document that >> that's what we did in the fing if that document exists the red line document we will make a viant attempt to try to find

238
01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:57.039
>> in the zoning it be good for you guys to have it because I mean you don't you just got to you don't know what move what changed right but if you can track documents okay so and so changed that the initials and moved the deer then you know who did it you got to question it right now you got a new doc So this is what was so

239
01:04:57.039 --> 01:05:13.280
great about when we did have that >> when we did have the nine member board and we all sat together that's exactly what we did. We came together with all the changes that we wanted and we talked about them and put them all together and it was in the secretary notes and and videoed >> and legal can respond to it

240
01:05:13.280 --> 01:05:29.920
>> and legal was there and legal was there. So we were going through line by line. Now, this is like you are saying we're going to make all these changes and then you're going to send them to them separate and that doesn't like you're doesn't make any sense and you just stated that you wanted them to figure

241
01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:44.400
out what they're going to do and then we're all going to get with the selectman. So, why wouldn't we just do that? >> Well, I think we we owe them an opportunity to at least meet and and discuss how they want to proceed. Um, they were constituted to do this, not

242
01:05:44.400 --> 01:06:00.880
us. Um, so we can digest tonight's meeting, figure out how each individually wants to proceed and we can talk about it at the next meeting, >> right? >> And then figure it out. And I I don't I'm not opposed to having a meeting with the selectment, but let's see how they

243
01:06:00.880 --> 01:06:17.920
want to approach it, too. What's the deliverable? I guess I was asking that question is is that um you know, when you go back to send them back to do some, what do they what do they owe us back? Is it in writing that they owe us back a documented track changes document of the review of the total bylaw or 167

244
01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:33.920
whatever one they're looking at? >> You talking about the attorneys? >> Yeah. No, I'm talking about the grouping here, right? >> I don't what is the deliverable from them? >> I don't know what the charge was from selectman. So, these are the things that need to kind of come to light. We need an opportunity to do this. I just wanted

245
01:06:33.920 --> 01:06:49.680
to start the process tonight. I didn't want to get into the weeds so much, but I can see him out of the way. >> No, it's all good. >> Yeah. >> I mean, >> I don't think we need a motion of any

246
01:06:49.680 --> 01:07:06.079
type. I think everybody >> No, I I'll get this thing started and I will see Susan and I'll try and get a red line coffee wherever it is. You know, I'll look around too and see if we will find it. But I mean,

247
01:07:06.079 --> 01:07:22.799
>> I know everybody has their own thing, but I mean, I think what we've tried to do is to make the simple. That's what we're trying to do. We're not trying to rip the town apart. We're not trying to add different things to it. We're just trying to make it easy to use. Clean it up. >> That's number one. And then if there's

248
01:07:22.799 --> 01:07:39.280
things here that have to be changed, that's fine. But that's where the building inspector comes into that we can hear from them to find out what he needs to or she needs to go out and say, "Okay, because everyone complains about this guy over here or this guy over here

249
01:07:39.280 --> 01:07:56.880
and what can you do about it, >> right? >> The zoning bylaws pretty much can't you can't do anything." >> Oh, come on. >> You have to have someone else to to really put something in that's going to bite something. I mean, if we have a if we have a a fine of $20

250
01:07:56.880 --> 01:08:13.839
and then you make it 300, then the state says that 300 is too is too much about you can't you can't enforce that, >> right? >> So, what do you do? So, you can put all the $300 fines that you want per day that have been violating the the zoning and his lawyer

251
01:08:13.839 --> 01:08:28.560
will just say, "Hey, we're going to throw them out because that's what I'm not going to build." All of this talk is exactly why we we've dealt with this for years things that have happened but like releasing whatever >> we don't

252
01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:44.480
we could be doing is having a real meeting all I care about this going to be easy to use that's all so any any person that wants to build something comes up >> knows what they can do >> knows what they can do I can find this here I don't have to go through 70 pages

253
01:08:44.480 --> 01:08:59.600
to find that this is hidden over here. Why is this sitting over here? >> And it conflicts with what's over here. >> Yeah, but it's only because someone 5 years ago said, "We got to add something." So, they put it there. >> Why?

254
01:08:59.600 --> 01:09:16.080
>> You're making it advertised like that. But it is a lot easier to read than other towns that have updated them, believe me you because I've read them. >> But it's not it's not 100%. I agree that we need stuff done, but like not in the not in the way that you

255
01:09:16.080 --> 01:09:32.080
went about it that with the people that don't even do it for a living to even understand. >> What is it to understand to make everything put everything under one >> because there's processes that need to be understood by people who go through

256
01:09:32.080 --> 01:09:48.000
them on a regular basis that would be able to better make changes to them. I'm not I'm not making a change. I'm just grouping them together so that you as a person can go >> that's not all that's not all this is.

257
01:09:48.000 --> 01:10:04.159
That's not all. That's not all that was wrong. >> We're not gonna debate this all night and and let's let's move forward here. And and I I think we've got sort of a rudimentary plan here. Uh such as it is

258
01:10:04.159 --> 01:10:21.360
so that we can do something until the next meeting if you're available and I know I'll you want to put yourself through this. Um >> hey, I want it done. >> Yeah. Exactly. Done. Period. That's all. That's why >> I'm not I'm not going to be the adversary. I just want it done. That's

259
01:10:21.360 --> 01:10:36.000
it. >> My whole purpose of bringing this up in the first place was because for the last two years I've been saying the one thing the planning board has not done in the last 30 years is any planning and you know we this is something we can do. We can look at we don't have to change

260
01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:52.400
things. We just need to look at does this make sense? Does this need to be updated? That's all that's you know >> the definition of the planning board is to make sure that the planning of a site is being done correctly with all the boards so that when it comes together

261
01:10:52.400 --> 01:11:08.960
we're the final stand it's not what your definition of planning is >> what was my definition of planning >> that we're not planning things that we're not >> any contact and abandoned buildings and making sure that they have something

262
01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:25.760
done to them that kind of thing being like this is something we can do. >> I also have on here which I want to talk to you next about the master plan. That is definitely something but that's all this works together. Zoning

263
01:11:25.760 --> 01:11:43.120
the general bylaws all the master plan it it's all one thing. It it needs to be in harmony. That's all I was trying to do is just to look at it. I wasn't even proposing changes. But anyway, I think we got a plan. Is everybody okay with this? We don't need a motion to do any

264
01:11:43.120 --> 01:11:58.800
of this. Uh appreciate you coming in. Thank you. Um >> thank you. >> Oh, appreciate you having me here. Yeah. >> Yeah, definitely. >> And uh we'll put this on the agenda again for the next meeting and we're going to continue. We're going to continue putting it on uh the agendas

265
01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:14.080
going forward so that we do dedicate some time to all this and let's let's see how we can constitute this thing and uh you know get something done that's helpful to everybody. >> Yeah, that's good. Sure everybody. >> Thank you. >> Thanks Jerry.

266
01:12:14.080 --> 01:12:28.960
>> Y thank you. >> Um next up ah the master plan strategy. uh the strategy is we're not in good shape in the master plan. Um I talked to town administrator and uh he was under

267
01:12:28.960 --> 01:12:46.719
the impression at one point that uh there was uh we had been committed to a grant. I think it was $50,000 to uh to help develop a master plan. uh which probably isn't enough, but um now

268
01:12:46.719 --> 01:13:03.440
he thought it was previously already set by the state that we were going to get it. Uh we had to put in for an extension, but now there's some controversy as to whether we can get it at all because of the uh situation

269
01:13:03.440 --> 01:13:20.239
surrounding the MBTA. >> So anyway, so I don't know that there's any money in there to do that. Um I I think maybe we hold off a little bit on this until we get squared away and try to figure out what direction we're going in for the zoning and uh unless somebody

270
01:13:20.239 --> 01:13:36.159
has something else they want to do. I did provide you with a copy of the current master plan if anybody wants to read those three. Um not a bad idea. That's probably very antiquated. Um but

271
01:13:36.159 --> 01:13:52.640
>> I actually read some of it uh over the weekend. Um my thought is let's try to do I mean without the grant money this is can't really go forward right >> well it's helpful to have some professional will help us with some direction the state has to approve it

272
01:13:52.640 --> 01:14:07.360
too >> yeah I would recommend let's uh focus on uh the previous discussion first and then tackle the master plan at a later date >> I agree >> well I thought that they went hand in hand >> well we got to start with one

273
01:14:07.360 --> 01:14:24.080
let's get the zoning squiggle But and then in the meantime, we can find out if we actually have any money or able to participate in any grants for it. It was a little bit left up in the air whether we had it and can't get it or had it and can get it, can't get it, didn't have

274
01:14:24.080 --> 01:14:41.440
it. So, we need to get that squared away. >> Moving on. Meeting minutes. Everyone have a chance? >> Yes. So, >> can I get a motion to approve the meeting minutes for March 19th, 2026?

275
01:14:41.440 --> 01:14:59.760
>> Oh, wait a minute. I had that change in there. >> That was the change that I said um I tried to get an extension on the um site plan for 318 Plymouth Street just in case we didn't meet on April

276
01:14:59.760 --> 01:15:15.760
2nd, which we didn't. We did get an extension. >> I said at the meeting. So I wanted that to be in the reflected in the meeting minutes on March 19th that I asked for that to happen. >> Okay. Do you want to make a motion that

277
01:15:15.760 --> 01:15:32.760
it's added to the minutes and approved? >> Yes, that's what I did the last time. I would like to add that to the minutes and that's the change that I would say to the meeting minutes from March 19th. It was stated.

278
01:15:36.640 --> 01:15:52.800
>> Wait a second. >> I wasn't listening. Sorry. So, >> do you remember on March 18th I asked for an extension of 318? >> No, I remember that. But I I don't think we made that motion last meeting. I think we just kept >> Oh, yeah. No, I would said that we would

279
01:15:52.800 --> 01:16:09.120
talk about it today. >> Okay. Yes, I agree with that. So, I'm making a motion to add that to the minutes that I asked for that extension >> because they came in the next day and they gave us the extension. Yeah. >> So, u

280
01:16:09.120 --> 01:16:25.440
>> So, I'm asking for what I stated at the meeting to be added to be reflected in the minutes. >> All right. So, we'll pass on the 19th because I don't see that in there. >> No. Can we I'll make a >> a motion >> a motion to put that in and correct and

281
01:16:25.440 --> 01:16:43.679
and >> that correction. >> Thank you. >> I'll second that. >> Thank you. >> All those in favor? >> I all those opposed. >> Thank you. >> Amy, what will you add the language about the extension for?

282
01:16:43.679 --> 01:17:06.000
>> So, um street All right. So, we want to add that and then we'll sign it. >> Yes. >> All right. What about Thursday, April 16th, 2026? You all good with that?

283
01:17:06.000 --> 01:17:22.560
>> I'll make a motion to accept the minutes of 41626 as presented. >> Second. Move and seconded to approve the minutes of May, excuse me, April 16th, 2026. All those in favor? >> I. All those opposed

284
01:17:22.560 --> 01:17:50.320
eyes have it. Let's sign it and get this done. I have not read the meeting minutes of the Sabbath yet. Can we put those off to the next meeting? >> Yep. I motion make a motion to push off the May 7th um

285
01:17:50.320 --> 01:18:06.480
minutes meeting the next meeting. >> I'll second move be seconded to um take the meeting that is for May 7th up at the next meeting. All those in favor? >> All those opposed

286
01:18:06.480 --> 01:18:28.800
uh June 18th. Then next we have some bills. >> We have some bills. PBG Engineering invoice number 657 318 Plymouth Street for $100. >> I make a motion to um pay um PGA, excuse

287
01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:46.400
me, PG PBG Engineering invoice number 657 in the amount of $100. >> So I'm going to change that. It's actually $123.75. >> All right. $223.75. Is that on the invoice? Is that what you mean? >> Yeah, I just read the invoice. The

288
01:18:46.400 --> 01:19:01.760
invoice is different. >> All right. It's just a typo. >> I'll second that for the uh amended the amended among 12375. >> Moved and seconded to pay PGB Engineering $123.75

289
01:19:01.760 --> 01:19:20.000
for 318 Street. >> All those in favor? I >> I was opposed. >> And I'll make a a motion to approve the WB Mason 262126631 and the amount of 1501. If I correct Tom

290
01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:38.360
1501, >> that is correct. >> Okay, >> I'll second that. >> Move and seconded to pay WB Mason $151. All those in favor? I >> I all those oppos

291
01:19:43.760 --> 01:19:59.520
>> and that's all we have for business. >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn. >> Uh next meeting is June 18th, 2026. I will entertain a motion to adjourn. >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn. >> I'll second

292
01:19:59.520 --> 01:20:27.239
you. Everybody jumping on. >> We never have a problem getting that done. >> I take that away. >> My brother. My brother. My brother. My wife.