[Music] working. Hello everyone. We did it. Yay. I have plenty more of these. So, if
people want another one for folks who didn't make it or somebody at home, just let me know. We'll take care. All right. So, good morning one and all. This I'm not used to a microphone that works. This is really good.
Yeah, we've got time, right? All right. So, what I thought I would talk about today is something I think we've talked about in the past and um we'll talk about it again. The history of the office of the sheriff. Um it's it's a
very old uh institution. I think a lot older than many people realize. So, whenever I travel around uh you know, I'm always curious to find out how things are done locally. And as was mentioned before, Tim Cruz, the DA, has
now been elected by his colleagues uh to be the president of the National District Attorneys Association. So, I think um he'll be very busy, but I think we're all very proud of him uh to represent, you know, here we are, a little Plymouth County, Massachusetts,
and our DA is the head of of the guys nationally. So, it's going to require him to do a lot of travel, but I'm going to remind everybody um whenever anything big legally is going on like at the White House or in Congress or things
like that and they have that, you know what that scene looks like? We call it Mount Rushmore when you get like the president is signing something or and all those people in the background. Always take a look now because I'm going to bet you money somewhere in that crowd Tim Cruz will be standing. So, yeah,
it'll be fun. And then we can all look at each other and say, "I know that guy." How fun is that, right? So, I have I made up some sheets here and uh I'll give them to people if they want them. They're little history sheets.
There was one that I did. I called it the history of the office of the sheriff. And I I wrote that up and and then I must have forgotten that I wrote it because then I did another one which I called the sheriff and the
deputy sheriff. They're very similar but they're a little bit different and uh and then I have another one which is the sheriff and the magna carta which is interesting. Now, the question that I'm asked and I teach a similar class in our
corrections academy uh and it's and the reason that I do it is I want to I don't want necessarily to stress uh the recruits out or anything like that. What I want them to understand is the history of the office and where they fit into that history and to build an aspree
decor a spirit of teamwork, you know, and a pride in what it is that we do. And I know I want to give a special shout out to the chief and and uh our colleagues here at um Halifax PD. They do a great job. We're privileged to work
with those guys. And I will say, and I I mean this with all sincerity, Massachusetts has 14 sheriffs. We have 14 counties and 14 sheriffs. But nowhere is there a better relationship between our local law enforcement, our local police departments, and the sheriff's
office than here in Plymouth County. And the reason that I say that is it's a personal thing. You know, we get together at least once a month. We talk about issues. We all experience problems and challenges and we work them out together. You know, I've always said the best ideas don't always come from me.
And that's true. My wife says the best ideas never come from me, but that's that's another story. But uh but the sheriffs are the same way. And it's very interesting. There are 14 counties in Massachusetts, as I said, and there are 14 sheriffs. Now, there are 14 counties,
but there is only 11 DAs. Hm. So, we've got 14 sheriffs and 11 DAs. And it's funny, the DA will always remind me. He says, you know, there's fewer of us than there are of you. He says, and that makes me just a little bit more special than you.
Okay, I'll go along with that. But the reason that there's only 11 DAs is what they have done is something that I think they're trying to do or have been trying to do with the sheriffs for many years now. They've combined counties. So if you ever see stuff that's happening down on Cape Cod or the islands, they always
talk about the Cape and Islands DA. It's not a Barnstable County DA, it's Cape and Islands. So they've combined those. And if you go out into the far uh reaches of the realm out in the western frontier uh in um they've got what's
called the northwestern district. So they've combined several counties out there. So that would be like uh Franklin County, some of those uh out where North Adams is and some of those. So you've got regional DAS. So that's why there's a difference in the number coming
forward or coming east. uh something that people find not strange but um unusual in the sense that Martha's Vineyard is its own county. You know, it's an island and it's what uh eight towns, something like that. Eight or nine towns. They're their
own county. So, they are the um they're Dukes County. And as the old sheriff used to remind me, they go by the name of the county of Dukes County, which sounds kind of repetitive, but that's what they call themselves. And I guess if that's what they call themselves, that's what I'm going to call them. So
they're their own county. And then if you go just a little further out to sea and a little bit south, you have that other island, Nantucket. Now Nantucket is only one town, but Nantucket is its own county. So they've got their own sheriff. So you've got Nantucket County.
They don't have a correctional facility on Nantucket. You can imagine there is a correctional facility on Martha's Vineyard. How many people have ever been past it? I know no one's been in it, but how many people have been past it? You might. Have you Did you know what it was when you passed it?
No. And that's not unusual because I didn't know what it was when I passed it the first half a dozen times. And then I went down there to visit after I got elected sheriff. And uh then I realized because it looks like any other of the beautiful houses down on Martha's
Vineyard. It's got some stuff out back that you, you know, would recognize as institutional, but inside it's very unusual because it looks like a nice white uh home. And then inside the cells that they have, which they don't use very often, but they're the granite
cells with the iron bars just like you saw in the movies. You know, we could film a movie there. Um, but their capacity down there on Martha's Vineyard is only about 35 or so inmates. Their population right
now is probably somewhere around a dozen. So, they've got about 12 inmates. And it's unusual for me when I the first time I went down there, they the population was much higher, relatively speaking. But I was as I was walking around it occurred to me now we have at
that time we had about 1,700 inmates in our facility. Now we're running about 1,100 routinely but you can see there's a big difference in scale there. But it just struck me as odd as I walked through that facility with the sheriff
and uh he would grab different uh inmates as he was walking through and he'd say, "Oh, oh, Jimmy, I saw your mother at Stop and Shop and she wanted me to make sure that you're taking your blood pressure medication." Oh, yeah. Sheriff, I'm doing So, it it's it's
different in scale and it's different the way that it feels. But it's uh but the ideas are all the same no matter how big or how small that correctional facility is. I do know they're going to be doing some renovations over there coming up. Um
and I think when they do that, uh I've been asked, we'll probably take all of their inmates for that period of time. Now, Nantucket, they have no jail. Um they don't even really have a holding facility. The sheriff's office in Nantucket is actually the old police station that was outgrown by the police
down there. So, he's got some holding cells, but he really can't hold anybody for more than a few hours. So, what the sheriff does down in Nantucket, and he's a wonderful guy, his name is Jim Perilman. He will take his people that are held and he will take them himself
on the ferry and they ferry over to Barnstable County. So they are held at Barnstable County where they have a much bigger capacity. So how many people have seen the inside or done a tour of our correctional facility? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's something we
might want to do at some point in time as a group. I think that would be fun. It would be eyeopening. And as much as I hate to say it, if you've seen one correctional facility, at least in Massachusetts, you've seen them all because they're all, with the exception of Nantucket and the Vineyard, they're
all pretty much the same. We operate on what's uh a system that's known as direct supervision. So whatever you have seen in the movies with you know the old linear system they used to call it with the tears of cells and you know the corrections officers walking back and
forth along those tears. That's the old way. And uh if you ever had an opportunity to visit a place like MCI Walpole, that's how they used to have that set up. And that's very bad for many many reasons. Not the least of which is on the employees. You know,
they used to say that if you had, as a corrections officer, if you had to walk from one end of a tier to the other, you did it up against the wall because if you walked out further, the inmates on the higher tiers could see you down there and they would throw things down on you.
Yeah. And you can imagine some of the things that they would throw, right? I won't talk about them, but you can imagine. So the the new way we call it direct supervision and what it consists of our correctional facility in Plymouth was built in the early 90s. It opened in
1994 and I do know and occasionally I see people before they put uh inmates and detainees in there, they did allow members of the public to come in and spend the night if they wanted to. It was an interesting concept. Yeah, that was back in Yeah. So, but there are
folks around who tell me that they've done that. So, um what it consists of, if you've not seen it, and hopefully we can get a trip together and you guys can come over and see it. It's a large common area, okay? Sort of like this, but even bigger in most of the units,
surrounded by two levels of lockable cells. And if you were to walk inside, you'd see a large common area with tables, chairs, things that people can come out and we do some programming in there, some training in there. Some
training is done off uh or out of that unit. But what we've tried to do with this modern concept is rather than move the inmates in and out of their cells, we bring things to those units because we found historically, you know, the prison movies you've all seen, if
someone's going to get uh shanked or, you know, someone's going to get attacked, where does that happen, right? It happens in the chow hall or in the ballyard. It's all and the movies portray it that way. And that's pretty much the way that it had historically been. So by minimizing the travel or the
movement of those inmates in the correctional facility, we have minimized the incidents like that happening and it's a very rare instance that it happens. Now we also have people who work in our classification uh departments whose job it is. Now imagine this one.
You're trying to plan uh uh or you're running a hotel. Let's say I tell people that all the time. I'm in the hospitality business, right? Um, but you have to be careful because you need to know what the gang affiliations are of people. You need to know who their
enemies are, what the charge is that they're and you have to be conscious of all this and keep sort of a list going because you had can have situations where you have one bad guy from the city of Brockton who's being or going
potentially be housed in a unit with another bad guy from Brockton and they're both from rival gangs and that can cause problems not just for them but for us, you know, because people get injured, people whatever ever. The other thing you have to remember is a lot of
these folks that let's say they're in there for a homicide. All right, they're accused of a murder. They're either well, they wouldn't be serving a sentence with us necessarily, although they can be. That's something we'll talk about. What can happen in those circumstances is if you put the inmate
who's accused of that homicide into the unit with relatives of the person he allegedly killed, can you see that that would cause us some problems? Yes. So, we have to know who the enemy's list is. Not just gang affiliations, but the enemy's list. And one of the things
that our correctional officers are really very, very good at is identifying gang members by the tattoos that they, you know, when they're inside on the outside, a lot of them, a lot of the gang members will, you know, they'll wear certain colors, certain
professional sports teams, they will wear hats that that way. And and you know, the police are very adept at identifying those things. But when they come into us, they're all wearing uniforms and they're usually colorcoded uh based upon what their status is as an inmate or a pre-trial detainee.
But what they one thing that they do do, and we are very conscious of this, is when they come in through booking, those questions are asked, you know, and we photograph all of their tattoos. That's a lot of times how the gang members
delineate or differentiate themselves other than clothing is through tattoos. And those folks with a military background will know what I'm talking about. When I mention a fruit salad, you know, when you see a military person and where my badge is here, they would have
that colorful square indicating different things. And if you are in the military, you'll have a knowledge of what each of those things denotes, what it means. you know, you'll have uh presidential unit citations, service in Iraq, service in Afghanistan,
you know, wherever they happen to have served uh and the medals and uh citations and awards that they've received. Well, let me tell you something. The gang tattoos are almost exactly the same. So, one of the things that we do and the guys that come in for their own safety, for the most part,
they will tell us what their gang affiliation is. So, when you ask them, "What is do you have any gang affiliation?" They usually are pretty forthcoming. Yes. And what is that gang affiliation? So, what we've done is knowing what gangs they're affiliated with, we photograph all of their
tattoos, we have experts on staff and sometimes they are called upon in court to come in and testify as to what those tattoos mean because sometimes, how many people remember Aaron Hernandez, the uh Patriots player
that was charged with murder, right? And uh a lot of people asked why it was he wasn't held with us cuz all of the federal all the high-profile federal inmates held by the marshall come to us. And the re there's a good reason for that and it's got little to do with me. It has more to do with the staff. We're
the best facility in the state, you know, by far in my opinion with all due respect to my colleagues, but there's never any question. But Aaron Hernandez did not come to us and the reason that he didn't is because that was a Bristol County case. So he was in Bristol County. But one of the things we did
have was one of our uh corrections officers was on deck to testify as to what you know and if you saw the photos of him, he was adorned with tattoos everywhere. And we had an expert on staff who could identify what those
tattoos were, what gang they were affiliated, and what they actually meant. And according to him, I did speak. He since retired, but before then he was able to tell me that um he could basically tell this guy's criminal history the same way that a judge would look at it in a courtroom and see the
record. It was all written on his body. Yeah. So he was poised to testify. So that's interesting. And they tell us and we keep a database of that and that's something that's available to all of our law enforcement partners and uh is disseminated on a routine basis. The
other interesting thing is it's a very rare occasion that crimes that happen on the outside are not talked about on the inside. So we have a dedicated team at the sheriff's office. We call them IPS,
IPS, the inner perimeter security team. I started it, but I can't take credit for it. It's a it's an idea that I stole from the Department of Corrections. And what they do is they will gather intelligence inside the correctional facility to share with our colleagues in
law enforcement and the local police departments about what's being said inside about who's committing what crimes on the outside because it's as I said it's a rare occasion that something bad happens out there that these guys aren't talking about it. The other thing that's very interesting is the phone
system and we had talked about that earlier. There's some controversy with the phone system now. Apparently the uh the phone calls, I shouldn't say apparently because the legislature passed a law a few years ago that the use of the phones now for our inmates is now free. Right. So that's great. They
get to enjoy free phone calls just like everyone here, right? No, we have to pay uh and now we have to pay for those. Our phone bill this year alone is going to be around $2 million for the phone bill. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So,
but thank you guys for the free phone calls. That's $2 million in free. That's So, what we do with those phone calls though is those phone calls are all recorded. And those phone calls are a treasure
trove often times of intelligence on what criminal activities are going on. I can't a number of times when I was at the DA's office, I can remember defense lawyers coming to me and saying at the very last minute on the eve of trial, they would say, "Oh, um, the defendant's
girlfriend, who is now an alibi witness, I didn't mention this before because we didn't know where she was. She's going to be coming in and testifying that her boyfriend on the night of the robbery was with her in another county. So, he couldn't have Oh, really? Okay. All
right. So what we would do with that normally is we would routinely call the jail and ask for the recording of the phone calls from the past week and have that you know burnt to a CD. It started on used to be cassettes and then they did CDs and we'd come into court the
next morning and you know you would would say oh let me give you this council and what is this? Well these are the phone calls for the from the last week between the girlfriend and the bad guy. He would disappear for about five minutes. You'd see some chatter and then
you'd see a young lady hauling behind out of the courtroom as fast as she could. What happened? I thought she was going to testify. Oh, she changed her mind. Only because, and you didn't even have to listen to them necessarily, but you knew there was a phone call between the two of them
where they would concoct a story and say, "Oh, yeah. Now you're going to say that I was with you even though I was over there doing the robbery." So, that's how we would deal with those. So, but those are the bad guys. You have to expect that, right? And the defense bar, they're only doing their job. I used to get mad about it sometimes, but I
learned, you know what? I'm glad I'm not a defense lawyer. That's all I can say. So, coming forward, um, or actually going backward, let's go back. Let's talk about the history of the office of the sheriff. Now,
uh, let me start this by saying the office of the sheriff, not just in Massachusetts. Now, the office of the sheriff in Massachusetts goes back to the year 1693. That's a long time. I would suggest here in Plymouth County, it goes back a
little further. Let's say 1620. And I would say that the person who is the professional ancestor of the sheriffs would be Miles Standish. Miles Standish was not one of the saints, as the pilgrims called themselves. He was a um he was an outsider. Um but he was a
military person by profession. and his job he was he was essentially the first secretary of homeland security with that original settlement in 1620 which I think is a little different than other places and I'll tell you why but anyway going further further back than that the
office of the sheriff is the oldest known governing institution to the western world outside of a king or a queen. Now think about that for a for a minute. Hm. And the reason or the way that the
sheriff's office came to be goes back to the 9th century in Great Britain and actually in England where a monarch by the name of Alfred the Great, he was great for lack of a better word. But what he
did, he realized that his kingdom was too large for him to adequately control without some help. So he decided what he was going to do was name somebody who could act as his agent
in all things royal throughout the whole kingdom and created what was called the Reev. Now in medieval England they didn't have counties like we know them. What they called well they did but they didn't
call them counties. They called them shiers. So if people are familiar with the Tolken novels the uh you know the British author they talk about the Shire and sometimes we still see vestigages of that in some of the business names. You
know the Shytown Ford dealership or the Shytown glass company. And what a shy town was and is is any town within a county within the Shire where a seat of government lies. So the Shire actually
Plymouth has two Shire towns. One is this s the town of Plymouth because county government is the seat is there and the other would be the city of Brockton because oftentimes some of those county uh functions are performed out of there. Now, county government
back in those days was in actually up until fairly recently and in some other places in the country, it's very active and they do a lot of stuff. In Massachusetts, not so much. You know, they do some things, but um it's really largely a vestage. Even our agency back
in 2010 2011, we ended up transitioning from being a county agency over to being a state agency and nothing really changed with one exception and that was our funding source. We became line items in the state budget instead of being
part of the county budget and it's done us a world of good but nowhere near enough good because they don't fund us adequately. But that's another story. So the Shire town and what they did in the Shireers or what Alfred the Great did was he divided that up into things
called tithings or um groups of 10. So they had different individuals who worked for the Reev who worked for the king and essentially they taxed they were military commanders. They they did
everything. They were judges. They were the juries. They found fact. They were the executioners. They you name it. They did it. And in some places here in the United States, the sheriffs still do a lot of those things. Like down in Louisiana, the sheriff is the tax
collector. I'm glad I don't have to do that. Can you imagine having to collect taxes and then try and get reelected, right? That's tough. In a lot of places, the sheriff is the coroner. So, anytime there is an unattended death, the sheriff has to go. And that doesn't mean that the sheriff is a medical doctor necessarily.
Sometimes they are, but they have to be uh or have someone on staff who can uh correctly identify if a death is natural or um we need to be suspicious, you know. So that's I'm glad I don't have to do that. That's we have an office of the medical examiner and they're busy
enough, right? So um those duties, you know, they were military leaders and it's funny to think I've never done it, but I maybe I will before I retire. I know the question is asked, when am I retiring? I get that question a lot lately. I don't know why,
but uh but at any rate, do you know that the sheriff can activate and call out the National Guard? Yeah, it's part of chapter 37. That might be fun, right? I do remember once being here in Halifax. Chief, you'll appreciate this. I think Mike Manuggan was the chief at the time, but they were doing a I think it was a
Veterans Day or a Memorial Day parade and they were gathering at the Walmart parking lot and uh I remember going there and I was so impressed because there were a lot of it was a military parade and there were a lot of guys
dressed up in World War II GI uniforms. But what was really really cool to me was there were tanks. There were a number of them. There was I think there was a Chaffy tank. There was a Sherman tank. There was an armored halftrack. All kinds of armored vehicles. World War
II infantry. And it was so impressive to see all those guys in their uniforms driving the tanks down the street. It was qu It was really something. And I remember grabbing Chief Manugian at the time and saying, "You know, Chief, I don't want to give you any ideas." I said, "But if we were ever going to do
it, now is the time. While we've got an armored division and all these troops, I think we should invade Plimpmpton. He just looked at me and walked away. But um but it's funny. So that's the history in in England. You know, the sheriffs did everything. And the
sheriffs generally, I'd like to think that they were good guys, but just like kings or queens, they're not all good. And not all the sheriffs were good. In fact, perhaps a majority of them were not good back in those medieval times. How many people, you know, remember the novel and probably saw some of the um
movies Robin Hood? You know, my favorite uh iteration of that is the Errol Flynn, the 1939 version. I love it. Basil Wthbone. Errol Flynn. Yeah. Who is that? Olivia De Havland is in that. But who was the bad guy in that?
The sheriff. The sheriff of Nottingham. Exactly. And the reason the sheriff was the bad guy was the king was the bad guy, King John. And that actually reflects history a little bit as well. Um, as I mentioned, the Magna Carta, the
English don't have a constitution the way that we do. What the English have, and we actually have it a little bit as well. It's our legacy from being British colonies, is English common law. So, the rights of Englishmen come really from English common law, which is kind of an
interesting thought. It's not necessarily codified as a constitution. And there was some debate back before the constitution was drafted. Do we really need a constitution given the fact that we have a tradition of English common law? Well, we decided thankfully
that we did. But in the year 1215 and again, you know, King Richard the Lionhearted was off in the Holy Land fighting the Crusades. King John the bad guy, he came to power and was very very abusive not just to his subjects but he
was abusive to the noble men you know so the dukes and the ears they were really having a really rough time with this king the way that he taxed them and demanded troops to be sent uh it was really a bad thing. So they decided upon
their own that they were going to rise up the nobles against the king and force him to sign this Magna Carta which delineated they would say the rights of Englishmen but really what it was delineating were the protection and the rights for the nobles.
So not exactly what we would call a bill of rights or anything like that. It's interesting to note in that document which is one of the most significant documents in English history and actually in world history too there were 63 clauses in that which
limited the power of the king. 23 of the of those or 27 excuse me of those 63 clauses dealt directly with the power and authority that the king had given to the sheriff. So what that tells me is that the kings
assisted by the sheriffs were abusing everybody. So they when you see in Robin Hood that the sheriff is the bad guy, that's probably not too far off and that's how they that's how they did that. So coming forward, so we see it
goes way way back in English history, but there are those who say it goes back even further. And one of the things that I've taken the liberty of bringing with me today is a book. Not just any book, it's the good book. Would it surprise you to know that the sheriffs are mentioned in the Bible?
And not just the Bible, the Old Testament of the Bible, the book of Daniel. The Bible that I have brought with me is my favorite iteration of this book. It is the King James version. And it's interesting to note, you know, people say, "Well, why do you like the
King James version the way that you do?" And what it is, it it means something to me historically because this is the translation that was done during the reign of King James in Great Britain. And this is the Bible that our founding fathers would have read from when they
were formulating their ideas about the natural rights of men. So this this is I always look for the KJV, the King James version. And really all it is is differences in translation. Most uh times you'll go to churches, I think what they're going to have in the
back of the pug. I always check because it's I'm weird that way, but I always check. It's usually the New American Standard, which is just a different translation. So, I'll read to you just a quick passage from the book of Daniel, chapter 3, 3. And what this is is that
um portion of the Bible where King Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon, ancient Babylon, 2,000 plus years ago, had created a false idol of gold. So here we go. Then the princes, the governors and captains, the judges, the treasurers,
the counselors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces were gathered together unto the dedication of the image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up. and they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up. That's the book of Daniel chapter 3:3.
So, the sheriffs apparently were in ancient Babylon 2,000 plus years ago. How many people believe that? Well, it's in the Bible, right? So, it must be true. what what it is and and I say this I I I
pull that out and and people are always very hesitant to question the authority as uh given forth in the good book but what it is it's the um the translation so in the day of King James when this uh translation was made from the ancient
Aramaic into the present English the sheriffs were essentially the governing authority for judicial matters law enforcement and military. So, the sheriffs obviously are going to get mentioned. If you look at like the New American Standard or some of these other
translations, the sheriffs are not in there. What they the word sheriff has been replaced with magistrates, which I don't know. I think I like it better with the sheriffs, but that's that's me. So, I don't think that sheriffs
necessarily existed in ancient Babylon as sheriffs, but there always was that authority. And it is interesting to note that this goes all the way back to medieval England and the shows. If people have questions or want to chime in, please feel free to do
so. You know, it's uh it's I feel very much at home when I'm interrupted. Um I you know, I also if if you get up and walk away, that's I'm used to that at home, too. So, but I wanted to hand out a couple of uh
these these are the the uh the patches um medieval times. This is another thing that really goes back to medieval times as well. You notice that the the shoulder patch and actually you guys have the Halifax one. It's in the form of a shield, right? Uh and some shields
are a little bit different, but you can see, you know, you have that there and you've got your sword in the other hand. So, the heraldry and people know about heraldry. We talk about how we and what that was was that was our way to identify friends and foes when we were
on the battlefield running around hacking at each other with swords, right? And shooting long bows. So, this is a tradition that comes to us and many people in their homes will have their family code of arms and you know those are always interesting to have. if
I know we have them at my house and it's, you know, for me it's a little bit confusing because I am of of um Irish, Italian and Portuguese uh descent, but I really only know our family crest as it
came from Scotland. So when I go to I have a lot of cousins in Ireland and I go to visit them routinely, they look at me as the Scotsman and I don't know that I'm I don't I don't think I'm Scottish. I might be. I should check. But uh interesting to note. So what we would
what we would do is that's how you would identify who someone was who was a friend and somebody who was an enemy on the battlefield. So coming forward to today, every town and every agency is going to have their own heraldry. And I think it's important and I talk about
this in our academy because I want this is one of those things that builds pride and builds in a spree decor in your people. You know, take some pride in this in the uniform. I say to my guys all the time, you know, the uniform, it looks nice, but it's not what makes it
special. What makes these uniforms special isn't the uniform or the style of it. What makes it special are the people that that wear it and go out and do these great things. That's the pride. But what this, you know, what this represents, and I think you can imagine
that that ship in the middle there is the Mayflower, right? We go back to 1620. And around it are those circles that Chris referred to as scolops. And uh you know before lunch I'd like to think yeah they're scolops. But really what they
are if you look at the original county seal it's a string of pearls. And if you see at the top there that little the squiggly on the top is actually back in olden days they didn't have clasps necessarily. So if you had a string of pearls, someone would have to
come behind you and tie that if you were going to wear it and tie it into a nice bow that would be secure. So that is the bow. Those are the pearls. And if you count those pearls, there are 27 of them in the string. And that corresponds to
there are 27 communities in the county of Plymouth. We have 26 towns and the city of Brockton. So that's that. And I tell people, I kind of made this part up myself, but it sounds good. The knot that holds that string of pearls
together is us. So, I thought that was kind of neat. And that's the heraldry. And that's in the middle there. That's the county seal. I changed it a few years ago. It used to say sheriff's department. Now, it just says sheriff across the top because technically we're
not a department. We are an office because the agency head is elected. So, and as was mentioned, I stand for election every six years. The DA stands for election every four years. So, Tim likes to tease me. He says that uh when
I got elected sheriff, the deal I got was buy two get one free. So, uh so that's true. Um I'm not on the ballot till 2028. So, like I said before, I'm here cuz I want to be and I want to I like to come out
and I like to talk about these things cuz I find them interesting. I hope you do, too. Uh it's a very very interesting uh job. People ask me all the time, what do you do? Every day is different. You know, we meet once a month, the sheriff's do, and uh
we discuss issues. I meet once a month with the chiefs of police as well, and I'm welcome there. That's great. some of these things that I had talked about here. Now, the office of the sheriff and in Plymouth County, I think we're a bit special, you know, more so uh than other
places, not just because we live here, but if you ever go to Plymouth, you know, you see there are great mottos a lot of times on on cruisers and things like that. I know the sheriff I know the sheriff in um Worcester County, his says community committed.
And I thought that was kind of cool. And then I thought about it. community. What does that mean? Community committed. Does that mean he's got his whole community committed in the jail? I don't know. I hope not. But at any rate, if you've ever seen the Plymouth ones, you know, I know in Los Angeles it's very, you know, to protect and to serve. And
those are great mottos. And I think mottos are another great way to build in a spree decor. Um, but in Plymouth, you see they have America's hometown. H what does that mean? America's hometown. That doesn't mean that
everyone lives here or at one time lived here, but maybe it does. And what makes us a little bit special, I always used to when I taught history and I used to teach history at one of the local colleges, I would always, you know, start out asking the students, you know, what's the oldest uh settlement that you
can think of in the new world in North America? And you know, we always I'll ask that question here. How many pe what's the earliest settlement you can think of? Rono, that's a perfect that is so good. That's the 15 what 1597 in Rowan Oak. Yeah. Um and that's a great story if
you've never read the story of the colony of Rowanoke. They established it um went back left the colony. They went back to England to resupply uh and then came back only to find out that the colony had vanished was gone.
The buildings were there but everything was gone. It's one of the great mysteries of history there. Every once in a while you see. So, it's called the lost colony of Rowenoke. 1597. That's an old one. A lot of people say Jamestown. Jamestown is 1607. Yep. Uh Plymouth
doesn't come around till 1620. But then a lot of people say, "Well, what about Spanish Mexico and Spanish Florida? The Spaniards were here before the English were." And that's true. When Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492,
he sailed under the flag of Spain. Columbus was an Italian, but he sailed for the flag of under the flag of Spain because they were the ones who financed his voyage. And the reason, you know, Columbus wasn't coming to discover new lands. In fact, he didn't
realize that he had until much later. Um, he was looking for a shorter, quicker trade route to the Far East so that they could bring spices back, which were very expensive. Spices, silks, and fabrics and luxury goods. They were
looking for a fast way to do it. So instead of going that way, let's go that way. And what he ended up doing, he didn't realize that he wasn't in India or as they called it, the Indies at the time. That's why when he landed, the uh
uh Tyino people, I think, were the first ones that he saw in the Caribbean. He referred to them as what? As Indians. Because he thought he was in the continent of India. He thought he was somewhere else. really kind of a cool uh concept and
they didn't figure that out for a while. But what the Spanish were looking for was two things. They were looking for primarily gold. They wanted to enrich themselves and they found a lot of that here. But they also sought to convert a lot of the native population to
Catholicism. So, and uh their brand of colonialism was very brutal. um not something necessarily to be proud of because those that they couldn't convert and many that they did convert were actually killed at the hands of the
Spaniards. What was interesting uh not the jail doesn't matter. So, what was interesting, the other group that was busy colonizing the new world were the French, right? And the French we think of, they're up in
Canada. And how many people have driven through Quebec and seen all those signs in French and heard all those people speaking French and wondered, "Geez, I wonder why that is." And that's because they were colonized by the French. Interesting, huh? Now the French had
what was probably the most benign um form of colonialism because they came here also to make money but not so much in gold. They wanted to make money in furs. There was a great market for the fur trade in Europe. So they came and
the French generally mingled with the Indians and lived really pretty harmoniously with them. People might remember uh learning about the the um travels of Louiswis and Clark in 1803
and the very famous Indian guide that he had. She was I believe Shosonyi um Sakagawea Sakaja you've heard it pronounced. Yeah. How many you guys have heard of her, right? and she was she
really was the glue that kept that that group together and got them all the way to the west coast safely. You know, when you think about the Louiswis and Clark expedition, that was almost like, you know, the missions to Mars that we have because people didn't know what was past
the Mississippi River and once they got past there, they were on their own. So, but you know, Sakajea as the old pron they pronounce as Chicagoa now. I don't know why, but that's what they do. Um, her husband, does anybody know what her
husband's name was? Her husband was a was a bit of a jerk. Yeah. Her husband was a guy by the name of Tusant Shabano. Now, can we guess Tusant Shabano was a French guy? Yeah. and really not a nice
person, but uh she she was aces. She was great. So, she got them safely to the west coast. Only one person died on that um that entire trip. That was a captain that they no a sergeant that they had whose name escapes me. But they believe
that his death was not at the hands of natives or anything like that. His death was a result of what they believe now to be appendicitis, which they didn't really there was nothing they could have done. they didn't have the skills to to perform that type of surgery. So interesting to note. Uh I'll think of
his name before I leave. But um so interesting the French. So you had the Spanish colonialism, the French and the the English. Now the English and especially here in Plymouth, let's come back to America's hometown. The reason that I say and I agree with
the fact that we are America's hometown and we're America's home county is because so much of what would become essential to the founding of the United States took place either right here or within a few miles of right here. To me
that's really really interesting stuff. So when you think about it, the English came and when the pilgrims landed in 1620, um all legends about the rock and other things notwithstanding, you know, they landed in Province Town first and ended up making their way eventually to
Plymouth. They tried to go further south, but they couldn't because of weather and Scholes and ended up coming back. But what they did and I have to think that there was a little bit there was part fortuitous uh circumstances here but I think they took advantage of this. Their charter their royal charter
that allowed them to come here had them landing in Virginia. Now Virginia was a lot bigger then than it is today. You know certain West Virginia didn't exist. It was all just Virginia. Clearly though they were outside of the
boundaries of where they had intended to be. So they took it upon themselves and English colonialism unlike the French who intermarried and coingled the English kept themselves very separated. They came here to set up their own English settlements. They didn't want to
mix with them. They didn't want bad relations but they would be perfectly happy without any relations of any kind. But they did end up needing the natives to survive because believe it or not the technology of the natives although you know we think of them as primitive their
agricultural technologies were decades ahead of what the pilgrims had in their English gardening and they really needed them to and that's why we have the first Thanksgiving and things like that. So yeah, that really and there's a lot of truth to what the legend that you that
you see. But think about that, you know, the pilgrims came here knew that they weren't where they were supposed to be where the royal charter had set them up and took it upon themselves, you know, they came here really seeking religious freedom, not making money. Jamestown
and Rowan Oak to a lesser degree, although Rowan Oak never stuck. Jamestown was a commercial venture. They went there to raise tobacco and the idea was we're going to come, we're going to make our fortune and we're going to get the heck back to England so we can spend the money. They didn't want to stay, but
the pilgrims came here to stay and they wanted to set up homes and they wanted to set up a place where they could worship and enjoy freedom. So that is why they rightly called themselves and Plymouth rightly calls itself America's
hometown. the very first thing that the pilgrims did before disembarking the Mayflower Compact 1620. And that is the very first document of self-government in all of the new world. No one else thought of it. Why? Because
they didn't need it. They weren't coming to set up a permanent settlement. They were perfectly happy to live under whatever laws they brought with them from England. But Plymouth was different. Do people agree with me, disagree with me? I don't know. That's my thoughts
anyway. But I think we really can rightfully call ourselves. That's what makes us a little different. Now, going forward, you know, I say um the the office of the sheriff goes back to 1692, and that's true as an office of the
sheriff, but if you look further back, as I said, Miles Standish in 1620, he was really the Homeland Security guy. So he was, I would submit, the first sheriff. So I think here in Plymouth County, we lay claim. What makes 1692
an operative? What happened in 1692 is that the Massachusetts Bay Colony combined with the Plymouth colony to become the Massachusetts Bay Colony, the bigger version. So um you often times
hear, uh reference to the old colony, right? How many people have heard the old colony elder services or the old, you know, the old colony boy scout council, the old, you see that a lot, right? And the reason, and it's funny to think about it, we don't give it a second thought today, but old colony
anything goes back to 1692 and actually before then when you had the Massachusetts Bay Colony in Boston and points north and the old colony which was us. So when they merged, how did they refer? Well, where do you
come from, sir? Oh, I come from Weimoth in the old colony, you know, that's that's how they would have thought of that stuff. So, it's interesting to think, but we were and are the old colony. I think it's kind of cool. Yeah. So, are
there any um questions that people have up to this point? I'll uh Yes, sir. I asked you a question about people that convicted of a crime
and sentenced by Suffach County. There is a Suffach County. Yes. that jail teaching these criminals how to be good. [Laughter] They know how to
be good. Well, with with all due respect, no, their their job isn't to teach people how to be good. their job is to protect the good people like you guys from those people that have to come to me to hopefully learn to be good. And that's one of the, you know, that's
something I should probably talk about because you see it a lot and you see these things thrown around a lot. Uh let me let me just close this out very quickly by saying that, you know, the the office of the sheriff existed in colonial days. The office of the sheriff is memorialized in the constitution of
the commonwealth of Massachusetts. Here in the United States, we don't rely upon common law, although we do have common law from England, but what we do is we have constitutions and statutes and laws. That's how we do those things. So, the sheriffs are actually mentioned two time the the Constitution of the
Commonwealth of Massachusetts, which dates to 17 um 80, is the oldest constitution in the world still governing anywhere. The Constitution of the United States dates to 1787 when it was drafted and 1789 when it was passed
or finally ratified I should say. So our constitution was actually predating the federal constitution and actually served as the model for the federal constitution. Interesting to note but in that constitution the sheriffs are
actually mentioned in two places. One place people ask me how the off you know we go back to medieval England uh article nine of that constitution of 1780 lists the the oath that is to be administered to the sheriffs and other
officials but to the sheriffs. So the reason and I had this conversation with somebody we weren't created by the constitution because when the constitution was created we'd existed for a thousand years you know we were there and then the other place that we're mentioned in the constitution is
article 19 which dates to 1855 when the office of the sheriff because the king had appointed the sheriff up to that point when here in the new world the colonies existed it was the royal governor on behalf of the king that appointed the sheriff and then in early colonial days after independence
It was the governors who appointed the sheriff. And in 1855, someone had the good idea to say, you know what, this is America. We don't appoint people. Kings don't appoint people. We elect people. And they made the office elective. And that's how it's been since that time.
So, every six years I stand for election. Every four years the DA does. Um, and that's you have a say. And I think that's important. I know there's a movement of foot now to say, "Well, let's all the sheriff should be appointed." Whenever anybody gives you the option, oh no, no, you don't have to vote for this. We got this for you.
We'll make that decision. I don't trust you to make a decision as to who the sheriff ought to be, I always go against that because the power of your vote is the most important power that we have. Although very few people exercise it,
but we do, right? We do. So coming back to your question about or your commentary about uh why are we teaching them skills? The hope is, and this is a hopeful profession, and I like to, you know, there's not many, uh, places in law enforcement where you can say,
"Yeah, we're very, we're hopeful." Uh, but we are, uh, and what we do at the sheriff's office is we run what's called the house of correction and a jail. And there's a difference between a house of correction and a jail. A jail is
technically where people are held prior to being convicted. So, they haven't been convicted yet. That's a jail. in our place. Some places they're different, like at separate places. In our place, they're in the same building. The oldest jail in the country that's
still in use is in Bristol County, and that is the Ash Street Jail. And it's interesting to note, they date probably to the early 19th century, you 1840s. Um, how many people remember or have heard of, I'm sure you have, the case of
Litty Lizzy Bordon, you know Lizzie Bordon, that was a famous homicide down there. Um, she was held at the Ash Street Jail, which is still holding bad guys today. The Ash Street Jail. Yeah. Just for the record though, Lizzy Bordon was acquitted.
She uh they think it was one of the uncles that uh actually did it, but who who knows? We can discuss that another time. But um so it's interesting. So a jail is pre-trial and a house of correction. Now, who goes to the house of correction? That's a great question. And people don't necessarily know that
in its name. The idea is they're coming to us for correction. We're going to give them a skill set. The reason we want to do that is because if you have a guy who was knocking over convenience stores before he got there or, you know, beating people up before
he got, we want to give him an opportunity. Doesn't mean he's going to take it and often times they don't. uh but give him a skill set and give him an opportunity to get a legitimate job on the outside and maybe do something constructive. And I can't tell you one of the things uh it's very satisfying to
me when you see somebody who gets his GED, you know, because a lot of these guys are high school dropouts, somebody to get some credits that they can apply to a college when they get out or even better, one of the things we're looking into now. CO derailed us for a little bit, but we were trying to get people
who if their record was not too too bad, they could qualify to be in the laborers union or to learn how to do plumbing or electrical work. And it's amazing the epiphany that takes place. You see that light bulb go off over someone's head when they realize I can make more money
as an electrician or a plumber than I ever could as a drug dealer. And it's true. When they don't have those worries about looking over their shoulder all the time to have the police chasing them at at any level. So the reason we do those things isn't because we want to coddle people or we want to make it fun.
It's because we want to give them a legitimate opportunity to do the right thing. Having said that, not everybody does the right thing, even with those skills, but you know, it's not because we're not trying to do those things that's important to us. Any questions or
comments about about that? No. Yeah. s to me if I was a judge which I'm not like anyway if you're going to go to jail for so many years to me you should
serve your time your time first don't worry I'll make him a good guy let's take him and serve his time for what he did you know put him in the saddle sit there for four or five years whatever let him think about it maybe he'll make himself good himself.
Yeah, that's what I say. I don't understand how the system can make a guy like that. Some people are Yeah. You do something as soon as he gets out. Yeah. Well, you know, it's it's funny
that that you express it that way. And there's some folks that agree with you. And I'm not going to say I don't always disagree with that sentiment in some instances. And the history when I do I teach a much deeper dive on the history of
corrections with our officers and there were many brilliant philosophers who expressed exactly your sentiment. Think about you know the word penitentiary. You know we all know what a penitentiary is but what is at the the root word of
penitentiary is penance. Yes. Exactly right. And there were those who believed um William Penn uh the famous uh founder of the colony of Pennsylvania uh was a Quaker and the Quakers were noted for their
goodness and their honesty. That's why when you buy Quaker Oats, you know the and it's it's you don't think about it. It's funny. Uh but the reason that they have the picture of the Quaker on there is Quakers were noted in those olden times for their honesty and their
integrity. So, you knew if I bought the oatmeal from the Quaker guy, it's going to be good, right? And that's why these, and it's funny to think about these things, but they go so far back in time, and we have no idea necessarily. So, what you guys are expressing here is
exactly the um the discussion that the most brilliant philosophers of their time had at that time. So, I commend you guys for that. You know, you've got your opinions and
you know, who am I to say that you're not right about these things? Yeah. Well, you're right. There has to, you know, there's usually, what's the old saying? You know, I've got this side, that side, and the right side. Yeah. There's something in the middle. And, you know, for those incorraables,
let's call them. And those are the ones I think you're referring to. If those guys are going to continue to be bad actors, I have no problem seeing them taken off the streets and it's if we never see them again, that's a good thing. I don't disagree with you there. But I think, you know, part of our job
in corrections is to make those corrections. Now, having said that, there are many people that suffer from character flaws that I think will render it. You can't turn a bad guy into a good guy. What you can do though is give a bad guy new skills that make it more
profitable for him to be a good guy, right? So let's appeal, let's work with his human nature to to make those changes. So the question then becomes you know who goes to the house of correction and who goes to a state
prison and often times you will see that whenever you see like the house of correction in Bill Rka or the house of correction in Lello or the house of correction in Plymouth that's a county level facility and the inmates that come to us at that county level are inmates
who are convicted or well first off the jail part which is with all of us as well The jail part is for pre-trial people who are held on bail or held without bail. But people who are sentenced to the house of correction can be held on either a felony or a
misdemeanor as long as that sentence that they've been sentenced to is 2 and 1/2 years or less. Okay. Now, what's the difference? You hear these terms all the time, a felony and a misdemeanor. The difference between the felony and the misdemeanor in a general sense is a
felony is more uh serious than a misdemeanor. Misdemeanor is simply another way of saying a misdeed um misdemeanor. And a felony, as I said, more serious. When you look at a statute, if you want to see if that is a felony or a misdemeanor, what you do is
at the end of those statutes, when you read the Mass General laws, it'll give the penalties at the end of it'll define what the crime is, tell you what the elements of that crime are, but then it will tell you what the punishment potentially is. Now, that doesn't mean they're going to get that full
punishment because it's up to the judge. Now, if you were the judge, I suspect you'd probably get the full punishment. But what happens is someone like uh the crime let's let's talk about a crime that everyone can visualize an assault and battery right so an assault and
battery is when someone goes over and it's an unconented touching or in most cases a hit of some kind to another person. They didn't consent to that. Uh that was a bad thing to do and it was a it was a misdeed and it was a
misdemeanor. So what that will allow for is a certain penalty not to exceed 2 and 1/2 years in the house of correction. However, if I do it with a weapon, if I hit you with a book or and a weapon can be many, many things that you don't
necessarily think about, but let's say there's a weapon involved. So now it's not an assault and battery. It's an assault and battery by means of a dangerous weapon. Now it's a felony. And if you look at the um the penalty part, it's going to provide for a lengthier
than two and a half year sentence in a state prison. So now you know if the if it only provides house of correction, it's a misdemeanor. If it does provide for a a prison sentence, that's a felony. And that's how you tell whether it's a felony or a misdemeanor. And as I
said, it it's it's all up to the judge. someone comes before the judge, even on a felony, uh I've seen it all the time, the case will be continue without a finding or someone will be put on probation. The fact of the matter is today, and I know you don't like this necessarily, but uh if you started
committing crimes today, I'm going to say, you know, short of going out and committing a homicide of some kind, it's going to take you eight or 10 years before you see the inside of a correctional facility. That's just the reality of it. You're going to get pre-trial probation. You're going to get court costs. You're going to get
continue without a finding. You're going to get straight probation. You're going to get straight probation with a suspended sentence. You're going to get a split sentence. And then ultimately you'll end up with a jail sentence. So you have really, you know, a lot of people live their lives and they're generally great people under the
impression, geez, if I commit a crime and these guys arrest me, I'm going to jail. Well, very unlikely despite our best efforts sometimes uh by the police, by the DAs. Uh it really takes some effort for you to
get to us, but once you get to us, you know, we're going to provide you with a safe place to be. We're going to give you uh training. Uh we're going to give you education, and we're hopefully going to give you a better alternative when you get out. Because the one thing that we all remember or should remember is
99% of the people that come in through the side door are going to be walking out after a while through the front door. and I have to do the best that I can to make sure when they come back into the community that they're not going to do the bad things that they did
before or new bad things. So, so that's what I got. Any question? Yes, please. That question is what is the reason to another one? I noticed that on TV they mention that some of these prisons
they move them down south to a prison or they go out west. Okay. What is the reason they move certain people to the other? Sure. Now the question that he asks I think has to do more with the detainees that we're talking about right now than
than prisoners. But let me answer the question with reference to prisoners. We all the time will separate prisoners from other prisoners for safety reasons. But then sometimes during a pre-trial situation, you might have members of,
let's say, a motorcycle gang committing crimes. And I'm saying this because we have a situation now where this stuff is going on. So they're all members of a motorcycle gang that's committing crimes. So rather than housing them together and giving them an opportunity to cook up a story together, we're going
to take out of six of them, we're going to take two of them, put them in Franklin County, two of them, put them in Hampton County. We're going to stick one over on the vineyard. We're going to put a couple up in Essex County. So you split them up and they're not able to concoct or contrive a story uh together.
So we're able to on the prosecution side and the police can go and interview them at their convenience. And you know obviously you're going to get six different guys. You'll probably get six different stories and as you say the truth is nowhere to be found but we you know we often get to the
bottom of that. So but what I think your question is and he's you're reacting to some of the stories you're seeing on the news right now. Is that what you're talking? Yeah. So, Plymouth County is unique in the sense that we have contracts and we have always had contracts since before the construction
of the the new jail from 1994. We hold on behalf of the United States Marshall Service. So, any person that's accused of federal crimes and held on bail is coming to us. That's why we held Whitey Bulier for that period of time. You know, a lot of people say, "Well,
geez, he was a federal prisoner. Why was he with you?" Well, all of the federal prisoners essentially go to us. And I think that's a credit to the men and women that work down there. They really do such a good job and it's so secure that they trust us with those individuals. How many people I'm I'm very glad to say that if you're
traveling now, you no longer have to remove your shoes at the TSA checkpoints. Yep. If And if you think back a few years, you remember the guy responsible for us having to do that was a guy by the name of Richard Reid. He was trying he had bombs in his shoes. he
was trying to ignite them and he uh he he was luckily he was unsuccessful but uh he ended up he was held at Plymouth on behalf of the feds. So it's um that always happened. So we do hold for the marshals but we also hold for ICE for
Immigration and Customs Enforcement. And what makes that interesting now is because we have got a capacity of about 525 with reference to ICE in particular. And if they exceed that, we we can't take
them. We're the only facility in Massachusetts that does hold for ICE. So anytime they're bringing in a new crew, they often times will take the older crew and move them for space purposes to other places in other states. And that's
why they do that. Just it's a practical matter of us being able to have the physical space to humanely hold uh that number of people. So sometimes too, you want to protect somebody. You have somebody like, you know, one of the concerns with Whitey
Bulier was uh there's a lot of bad guys that wanted him dead too, you know. So we have to be And how long did he last in federal custody? You know, he lasted with us for three or four years, but yeah. Yep. Yeah. He was evil. No question. Some people asked me, you
know, what was he like? You know what I say? I don't know. Well, didn't you go and talk to him? No. Why would I do that? I had I had nothing to say to that guy because, as you say, I believe he was evil. Yeah.
Any other um thoughts or questions people want to share? Yeah. Why would somebody get more time depending on the way they tried to kill somebody? My sister was stabbed about eight years ago in
almost died and he didn't get as much because it was stabbing rather than like shooting or whatever. Yeah, that's a good question. And to a lay person, it might appear as though there is a difference like the means by
which you kill someone or attempt to kill them. But the law itself does not really differentiate. So, if I were to shoot you with a gun or stab you with a knife or try to run you over with a car or any of those things, the potential penalty
would be the same. What would happen though is that in certain circumstances, you know, if you let's god forbid they're they're successful in their attempt to kill somebody. Um there are enhancements
based upon, you know, certain depraved heart things will take a murder and make it second degree but now move it up to first degree. You know, when those, you know, you're talking about degrees of homicide and the degrees of couple, you know, and when you're talking about homicides, it can be very complicated
because you can have involuntary manslaughter, voluntary manslaughter, you know, seconddegree murder, first, you know, and there are specific definitions and the penalty does differ a little bit, but not so much based upon the means by which you attempt to do
that. some things too, like there's a a theory of of murder, the felony murder rule. Uh you don't necessarily intend to kill anybody, but you're out um you're driving the getaway car and I'm inside robbing the convenience store and unbeknownst to you, I'm in the
convenience store. I shoot somebody. I get into the car, you and I take off. You don't you have no idea I killed anybody, right? But the law is going to hold you accountable for the homicide that I committed because the felony Well, first off, joint venture. we work together.
And secondly, this murder took place or this death took place during the course of the commission of a felony. So now that elevates it no matter what the circumstance was, we were committing a felony when that person died. And there's an enhancement there that makes that a murder. It's a felony murder. So
that can can happen too. Certain things too like what they call the depraved heart and that's exactly what it sounds like. You know, you've got some guy walking down the street with a gun. He walks by a nightclub and says, "Geez, I don't know anybody in there, but I think I'll fire into the windows." And someone gets, you know, he didn't necessarily
know that person or intend to kill that person, but the actions were those of a depraved person who knew or should have known that that conduct would result in somebody's death. So, that can be a murder as well. So, what the question you ask is a good one because to an
outside person, geez, how do they number one, how did they charge it? Number two, how did the jury come back? You know, because what we charge and what the jury comes back with, we don't have control over necessarily. And then the other uh um variable that's there, as is
mentioned, the judge, you know, the judge has a range usually of penalties that the judge can impose. And it's going to be up to that judge to assess the seriousness of the conduct, the seriousness of the injuries to people that were the victims here. And the
judge is theoretically the person who is going to come up with what is just in that particular instance. And unfortunately for us, you know, the family of the victims, often times there is no justice. How do you
how do you make justice for a lost loved one? And I suggest you can't. There is there's no replacing. Yeah. No, but put yourself attorney general's office. Yeah. put yourself in the position of, you know, someone who lost somebody, you know, and thank God it's never happened
to me, but I I can imagine what that would feel like and there's nothing nothing that can replace that person. Yeah. Yeah. But that's thanks to a helicop. Wow. And she was
Yeah. Yeah. It's it, you know, the world is uh has always been a um a dangerous place, but it seems like more so now. Some of these films that you're seeing, I don't know if people saw I can't remember where it was, but that Ukrainian woman who was um seeking
asylum, she's out of the blue. She sits down in a subway seat and some guy behind her just gets up out of the blue and just stabs her right in the neck. And you know, and that uh professor at Auburn University, she's out jogging with her dog like she did every day. and a guy just comes out and kills her,
you know. So, it's it's scary stuff. Yeah, it really is. So, anybody else? I guess so. Well, if anybody want I have a few of these. If people want them, you're certainly welcome. Yeah. All right. Well,
thank you [Applause] You were all very polite. I appreciate it. I hope it was interesting. [Music]