Okay. All >> right. Good evening. I call to order the meeting of the Hamilton Regional School Committee on Thursday, December 4th, 2025 at 700 PM. Um, first uh order of business, we have
an opportunity for citizens comments. Um, we have an opportunity both here in person in the room as well as on Zoom. Um, any citizen wishing to speak before the committee, I will ask that you identify yourself. Um, and please, um,
spell your last name so that we can get it correct for the minutes. Um, please know that we all lot three minutes. Um, please keep your comments to 3 minutes. Um, Amy is our official timekeeper here and, um, she'll let you know when you
have about 30 seconds left. Um, and it does not look like we have anyone on Zoom just yet. So, we'll start here in the room. Um, so if there's anyone in the room, um, who wishes to make a
comment. Oh, and I'm sorry. I should have said just so everyone hears me say it. I should have said this is an opportunity for us to listen and for you to be heard. Um, so it's not a back and forth. We will um, listen to your comment and
then we will um, thank you for it. Um, thank you. Welcome. >> Hey, good evening. Scott Matter, M A D E R N, uh, Old Cart Road in Hamilton. Uh, a few points. I know tonight you're going to be talking about next phase for Grammar School renovations and, um, uh,
Eric has a, uh, uh, some efforts he wants to get kick off related to that. Um, I want to thank him for his leadership on the grammar school renovations. I really appreciate that you're uh, sticking with it. the schools aren't getting any younger just because
we failed a lot of votes. Um, for the next phase, I'd ask that you I I've asked before that you reflect on everything that we think maybe went wrong before, but in all your community planning efforts and outreach activities
that you have, especially the these working sessions that might be coming up is like keep the ED plan front and center. it. I think people lose if you don't know what we're trying to achieve. Any path will get you there. Anybody's
ideas about doing something, they're not bad, they're just unfounded. They're not linked to the ed plan. And you are the epicenter of the ed plan. That's not challenged. It's the thing that you're supposed to be doing. If that's not continually communicated to people so
they know what we're trying to achieve, um I think you're going to have just all sorts of unfounded biases being presented and not know how to deal with them. Um and then in terms of dealing with them, I think uh I've mentioned
this before. I think you need a dedicated social media budget so that you promote what's going on. You watch what's happening in the social media world cuz that's where the fight is. It's not here with the three people who are attending your meeting. It's in the
hundreds of people that are in your social media ecosystem. And uh responding to that, being current with it um is critical because your meetings of every two weeks just keep up with the news cycles that happen in in real time
social media worlds. So Ed fund edund front I mean the ed plan front and center a dedicated social media budget for this next phase of the project believe is is mandatory. And then I'd also ask from a money
standpoint that you ask all the five boards. It hasn't really been part of your discussions yet. Um the select boards and the and the fincoms to have a cap annual capital funding request. It's going to be a big number. >> We don't know what it is yet, but it's
not prudent to not start saving for that now. We need to save it now. Our library took 10 years of planning, communication, and effort before it opened. the school renovations are bigger than that. So there's no reason to believe it'll be shorter. So um
therefore we need to start saving now so the impact isn't just some ginormous number 10 years down the road. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> All right. I'm assum I'm assuming there's no one else in the room.
>> Um and it doesn't appear that there's anyone on Zoom. So, at this point, we will close the citizen comments on Zoom. >> Closing out >> and we'll close them here. Thank you very much. Um, next up is a review of a
portion of our protocols. I think that is you, Jen. Is that right? Yes. As elected members of the Hamilton Winnham Regional School Committee, we including the superintendent accept the high honor and trust that has been
placed in us to ensure that the students of the district receive the best education possible. To that end, we hereby commit to the following in the conduct of our business. School committee members will attend meetings on time and be well prepared to discuss
agenda items. While at meetings, members will stay focused on the agenda items and will not engage engage in communication outside of the agenda being discussed. When making decisions, school committee members will keep in mind utilizing the best information
possible available, including research, best practices, public input, and financial considerations. Members will debate issues and not each other. members will analyze carefully and debate fully whenever necessary prior to making decisions.
>> Thank you. Um, next up we have a portion of the mission statement. Kristen, >> thank you. The Hamilton Winnham Regional School District, excuse me, school district school committee's mission is to ensure
our schools create graduates with a passion for lifelong learning together with the critical skills needed to maximize their potential. The Hamilton Winnham Regional School Committee will lead and inspire a district that is a
source of civic pride and municipal engagement to serve the community for generations to come. Thank you. Um if the committee is willing, I'd like to propose um you'll see that our um
student government representative Emily Pickin is here. Um and I would like to if unless I without objection, I'd like to move uh her up to before the superintendent report if everyone is okay with that. >> Sure. Okay. To you Emily.
>> Hi. So I'm just here to talk about the student activities. Um to start with events, we just wrapped up spirit week and the fall school musical Chicago. Both were super successful and it was a really fun and competitive week for all grades. Um
there's also the Hamilton 1M Regional High School school winter concert and art show December 10th. That's at 6 p.m. Um admissions are both for both events are free and all community members are welcomed. We also have DECA coming up
and districts is this upcoming Wednesday for the um role plays which is super exciting. And for sports, we had a super fun um end to the football season winning the Thanksgiving game against Ipsswitch on Thursday morning. Um this is also the
first week of winter sports and we have a bunch and it's super exciting and we're excited to like get started with those. And then for clubs, there's been a bunch of new clubs that have been formed this year, and there's roughly 32 clubs overall, which is super fun, and there's a lot of different options for
every one. Um, over at the middle school, they are coming up on their weekly early release, and then they also have a winter concert at 7:00 p.m. This is, um, going to be taking place at the high school. And then we have just winter
break approaching and they also have a bunch of clubs they're thriving with around 14 and they are starting their winter inter murals over at Winthrop. They have the book fair today and tomorrow and they also will have their report cards being published. The holiday boutique is also
this Saturday and they're looking for volunteers which is super fun and it's always a great way to um kind of like a throwback going back there. And then at Buer, their music program is doing really well and they have a bunch of um lessons for for people who are
just learning how to play an instrument. And then they also have the ensemble. Um and they're also hosting a school committee meeting. And then at Cutler, they have the holiday solstice readaloud/antern craft at 6:00 p.m. on the 17th and they
are preparing for winter break. That's all I have. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's always great to hear and I love the work that you did in making sure that we got a lot of information about the elementary schools as well. Thank you. >> Thank you for that. Um it sounds
especially the music program at at uh at Buer sounds like you got some good information about that one. Thank you. Does anyone have any questions or anything for Emily? No. >> Great. Um thank you Emily. Um I'm
guessing you may have other places to be. Um, we are fascinating and open to the public. Um, but so, however, you're also welcome to go if you're done. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you,
All right. Um, always great to have the student representative here. >> Thank you. >> Um, so, um, we did take things out of order. You'll notice that we, um, put the superintendent report up at the closer to the top of the meeting. It's
just something we're testing out was Amy's suggestion that um you know lots of times Eric has information that's interesting to the public and they might be perhaps more engaged near the beginning of the meeting. Um so we'll see. Um Eric,
>> I thought it was because you wanted my exciting personality up front. >> That was keep everyone interested all the way through. >> All right, so a few quick things. We have uh an interesting uh release this past week of the graduation requirements at the state level. Um I want to be very
clear in this. They are not etched in stone. They have released it and they are really shopping it about to see what different groups think about their plan. Uh the plan really includes rigorous coursework connected to higher ed make
trying to make connections to courses in higher ed. um demonstration of mastery which will include some type of end of course assessment. I was in a webinar with the commissioner uh yesterday and they were talking about you know picking certain courses at different grade levels and having all those end of
course assessments managed by the state. Sounds a little like like a little bit to me like MCCAST again but that's um part of what they're thinking about. They're also looking at giving kids the opportunity to do capstones and portfolios. And then um kids as as low
as into the elementary uh grades will be expected to use some level of career and academic planning which includes the my cap program which is the state-run uh program that helps kids to kind of find their way. There's a number of them out there. We used to use Naviance. We there
different just ways usually older kids use to determine college decisions, directions, etc. Um my cap is one that's been sponsored by the state and they are now leaning into that hard. We do not use it because we didn't think it was robust enough for our kids. So that may
present an issue down the road as we move forward. They're still shopping around town. Superintendents are weighing in on it. I'm on both the legislative committee and on the graduation requirements uh committee for uh the the superintendent group. So, I'll get information and bring it back
as soon as I can. But I just want people to know it's not in stone. Some people immediately emailed me like, "What does this mean for my kid? It doesn't mean anything." Um because it's just they're really just shopping it around. So, that's one thing. You want to do questions on that? >> I just Yeah, I have a question. >> Um No, no, no. I just had a question
about I know it's not set in stone. I just want to have a question about students who are graduating this year. We did some work, >> correct? >> To make sure that they have clarity about what >> So, >> that was purposeful so that these kids didn't get caught in the loop at the end
of the year. >> So, >> so we're staying with that with our current class of 26. >> Okay. >> Yep. That was their purposeful because I think they knew this would take longer than a year uh to get moving forward. So regardless, the the class of 26 has
clarity about what they need and then >> Okay, >> we approved it. >> Just making sure >> we approved it. It's it'll be submitted to the state mid December and then be good to go. >> Y okay. >> Uh a couple of other things. We had the uh second meeting of the school start time committee. We have about uh what do
we have 13 members on that committee working towards uh this past um meeting we had uh breakout groups. I had to break out my breakout group skills for Zoom, which I haven't done in a while. Um, but we had different great breakout rooms and had people brainstorm about
impact points related to three areas so far. Athletics uh and after school activities. That's one area. The second area was transportation. And then the third area was uh looking at um employment and after school care. So
those were the first three areas we started. We did brain kind of roundroin brainstorms. One group started in each then we shifted every few minutes to give people an opportunity to weigh in. We had one of the gentlemen from the bus company in the meeting room so he could
answer some specific questions. Next meeting we'll do some more of that but also add in we'll bring in the athletic director to get some perspective from him. Um and then we'll start to begin to formulate a direction so that we can meet the March deadline. So it's good group. It's a it's a actually really
good group. We we grew from five to 13 really quickly. 14 plus me including me, but it's a it's a good mix of people with people from the community, parents from elementary, parents from middle, parents from high school, um teachers who are parents, uh teachers from each
of the grade levels, counselors, nurses. So, it's a good good mix of people. So, we'll keep doing that work and I'll keep let get getting uh updates to the committee. Then finally, this last p past week, we had um geo imaging done of the middle school parking lot. Uh we did
not find any gold. So >> sorry about that. But we um as you remember, some new new people may not know the the committee, I think 3 years ago now, agreed to uh begin to look towards the development and installation
of a solar canopy in the middle school parking lot. um which would give us about 70 to 80% of the electricity for the middle school. And essentially what happens is the company comes in, they build the solar canopy, and then they
sell electricity to us at a drastically reduced rate, like 8 cents a kilowatt. So it's about a million and a half savings over a 20-year period. You you lock in a contract for 20 years with this company. And uh it'll be it'll be a big savings for us as we as we move
forward. Um if it all comes to fruition. We're still waiting for approvals from National Grid. Uh it's left the state house study uh realm. So now it's it's in the the hands of National Grid. We should know by mid January where we're going to go from um that point how long
it would take to actually get something up and running. But it'll still have to come back to the committee one more time and then review that and get approvals and then move forward. And I just wanted to touch on one of Emily Emmy Pickkins uh talked about the
winter concert. The middle school that's on December 16th and then um the high school u winter concert is on December 10th and they do an art show at 6 and then at 10:00, excuse me, 10 o'clock. I'll be driving home then. It's uh at
7:00 they'll do a concert. Uh so just wanted to clarify she had it in her in her presentation but I don't think she had the time the date and that's it. >> Uh thank you. Anybody have questions? I was adding the winter concert to my
calendar. Um all right. Um next up is our consent agenda. Does anyone have any items that they'd like to hold from the consent agenda?
No. Julia, >> I move that we accept the consent agenda as presented. >> Second. >> Second by Jen Carr. All those in favor. That is unanimous of the six members
present. And the motion passes. Okay. Um so next this is the um warrant for um the election of school
committee members. This is um the language that we're um required to put out. Um and we all uh if once we once we approve it, we it needs to be signed. Um the the thing that um members of the
committee should understand and members of the public should understand is that it's a little bit um I mean just to be clear that there um up in uh April uh there will be three um
seats open on the school committee that people could run for. Um, two of those seats, which are the seats that um, Megan and I hold, are um, three-year
terms. And then one of the seats, which is the seat that Kristen holds, is a two-year to term. So, I don't know if anyone has any questions on that. It's >> very confusing. >> It is confusing. Um but that is the way um and that is be um that is because of
the um being appointed that like if you're fulfilling the rest of the term um it just so happened that Megan's fulfilling a term that's ending >> about Got it. >> That makes sense. >> Yes. I I have a question. >> Yeah.
>> Is that reflected on the ballot or like >> and we've actually done this before. >> Okay. >> Um so yes, it's reflected on the ballot. It will it will say um candidates for like in theory a candidate any candidate could run for the two-year term or the
three-year term. You have to declare that so that they would be separate like it would say >> you know like >> candidates running for three-year term. It would have the list of candidates that are doing that and it would tell you how many it would you know vote for two because there's two of those and
then it would say candidates running for the two-year term. however many candidates vote for one because there's just one. >> Um the other thing that is important, probably more important to school committee members than it is to the public, but just so people are clear, if
you read the second part here, um our regional agreement um states that if you have been if you're running for reelection, um that you can declare your candidacy by writing a letter to the town clerk.
But if you have not if you're running as the first time running for election, you need to obtain signatures. So that would apply to anyone who's been appointed and also anyone from the public who is interested in running for the seats would need to obtain the signatures. Um
so um that was a lot. Does anyone have any questions on this or actually we should probably have a motion? >> Do I need to read specific language for this? >> Uh that's a great question. I don't think so. Um I think it's as presented. >> I move that the Hamilton School
Committee approve the warrant for election to school committee members as presented. >> Second. >> Second by Jen Carr. Um so does anyone have any questions about this. Okay. Is there any further discussion?
All right. Um, all those in favor, that is unanimous of the six members present and the motion passes. Um, and um, I assume we have a copy. >> Before you leave, I have it this sign. >> Before you leave, we got all
>> sign. Yes, it needs to be signed. And, um, Julia, well, it's clear. I was going to say the secretary is like at the bottom. It's like officially coming from the secretary. >> Okay. So, um, all right. Next up is um a
potential vote on the 2027 2028 school calendar. Um we always try to have two on the books. So um to you Eric. >> Sure. Yeah. The agreements that we have
with the unions are to have two year at least two years out. So we um following that process usually right around um late October we start to develop the the calendar for two years out and then in November late November and mid November
we give it to the union uh to for them to review and um we kind of cross reference information make sure everybody has the same understanding of what the schedule is and then uh publish this draft for your uh approval.
I will say we have in the past had to change calendars for various reasons because of um different things that have come up. So no calendar is ever etched in stone. So don't feel like if you vote for it, it's stuck. But uh we just want to make sure we're continuing to follow
the language that's in our contracts and also to kind of keep keep give the general public a good idea of start dates and end dates and vacation times uh so they can plan. Um,
so and you're looking for a vote if this evening, correct? >> Mhm. >> Um, so maybe we'll start off with a motion and then we can discuss. >> I move that the Hamilton School Committee vote to approve the 2027 2028
school year calendar as presented. >> Second. >> Second by Amy Kberger. Um, are there any questions? >> I had one quick question. I noticed in
September of 27, the early release date is the first Wednesday of the month and in the other months it's the second Wednesday of the month. So, I just wanted to double check if that was purposeful or a typo >> in September. >> Yeah, >> that's the second Wednesday of the month. >> It is.
>> First one's first one's on teacher workshop day. Okay. Sorry. No worries. Yeah, >> it's a little confusing with the TWWs in there. >> Okay. Just wanted to check. >> Yeah. >> Um >> I was hesitant because it's the first day of school and it's a early release,
but that's our our agreements are written. >> Y um does anybody else have questions? >> I don't think so. >> Um I I did I I did look at it. I it's
I mean like Eric said sometimes people do see something or find something that like doesn't you know doesn't make sense or doesn't >> um uh you know um but you know it didn't seem it nothing
leaped out at me. So um right anything else? No. All right. Looks like we're ready to vote. Right. All those in favor? That is unanimous of the six members present and the motion passes.
>> Thank you for that work. Um, next up is to you Eric. >> Um, so it's was two I think two meetings ago committee tasked me with coming up with process for at that time we were talking
about listening sessions. cuz we've talked to a number of people and gotten feedback to say do not call them listening sessions. So, community conversations. Um, so this is uh what I put together that uh seems to make sense. Gives us some time to have two
meetings to gather feedback and um process that feedback in time for a vote if we need to for town meeting or to at least get our ducks in a row. So um these sessions would be run by me. They'd be run in a workshop format. Uh
the idea would be to uh have similar situation to here except tables and try to mix some people up and get some interactions between the tables, do some group sharing uh just to dig into uh what types of things and themes that
the community has in mind. you know, where where do we go from here is the question everybody continues to ask. Um, and we we are seeing several themes that are reoccurring. Cost and tax impact, preservation of the small neighborhood schools, process, transparency, and trust, and then understanding of
options. Um, so figuring that out is something we'd like to do through these sessions. I figured we can run them for about 90 minutes. they I have a pretty good idea how to structure those and then um just use that process to bring information together, create a report,
bring it to the committee, and then try to determine some next steps uh with the committee right around that early February when we're voting the final uh budget, but also creating our warrant articles and things like that. So, if we need to, we we're still within the 45day
window. we have an extra week kind of built in there because they moved town meeting. So, that's helpful. Um, but I just wanted I just I just wanted to make sure this came on quickly enough so that we could get it up and running. The second
um item on the exhibit is just a sample of a mailer that we would use uh two-sided mailer that we use. Very simple and straightforward. The question I have for the committee is on the back side of it. It says um in red, well, it
says that the Hamilton Regional School District like to invite all community members to open community conversation with the superintendent and members of the school committee. The hope of the school committee members will be there listening. >> So, I'm not sure I'm not sure that that belongs in there, but I wanted to check
with the committee to see if you wanted to keep that in there, take it out. It's it's really just kind of pre preference of the committee. >> Are you asking if we or if you want us to >> No, it's it's it's really um the
community conversation is really it's a it's a >> it's literally me running a workshop for the community two times. So the the debate we had in central office was do we want to have the superintendent and members of the committee or the school committee really just there to be
participants in the workshop. >> Yeah. I just don't want us to be a distraction and I just >> Yeah. >> Um I think that it should be clear that we're not there to lead it. We are there as like participants and listening. I >> Right. I guess I want to make sure I
understand the question because I think that's what Amy like I >> and maybe we're all saying the same thing. I I think >> in my mind school it would be really important that there are school committee members there to listen, observe,
take notes, be present. Um, but I wouldn't want people like it's it's an I the idea is it's not for
opportunity is for the community to have a conversation not >> right >> for we have lots of opportunities to say what we think publicly. >> I also sorry I don't mean >> no go ahead. I also I have the same question like and I'm that's it is what
I was trying to ask but I also would like people if they would like to have conversation with us to be able to ask. So I wonder if there's a way to structure >> the event so that like >> we can listen and then also if people want to come talk to us.
>> Sure. >> Invite them to do that. >> Right. It all I'm wondering if even maybe that like it could even be like Eric said you know 90 minutes. It could even be like before or after that committee members are just
>> hang out with >> you know not not in this kind of a setting just in a >> casual kind of a setting or more relaxed I don't know. >> Yeah. And I think that might be helpful because as you stated for community comment that's it's not really an opportunity for us to engage back in
dialogue and so this might open that door a little bit for communication. >> Yeah. But I mean and and I know Eric has a separate question of just how to like write the word how to word it, but I I think we need to be get clarity on what we want it to look like first.
>> Jen, >> my concern is violation of open meeting law. >> Well, we'd have to post it as a meeting. >> Yeah, we have to post. So, we would all be there and even if four people came, we had to post it as a meeting. Um, >> but I and I would do the I'm willing to
do the leg work to sort of find out like, okay, so we post it, >> but then what are the rules around how it works and because we're not going to be sitting around the way that we do here, we wouldn't take any votes. >> So, you know, we we >> make decisions.
>> We post a workshop, too, which is much which is something that we just discuss if we don't make any decisions. So, um, but yeah, I would definitely find out about the logistics of that, but I think we'd definitely have to post it if four of us would be there. Um, yeah, >> my other concern is the time. Like, will
it be child care provided because that's going to disenfranchise a lot of people? >> Sure is. >> Um, like my cohort. >> Yeah. Who, you know, can't bring their kids in >> to the meeting. >> Or should one be at a different time of
day, like a different day part? I mean, I will say as a parent of young children myself, anytime after 7:30 is generally more amendable to those of us who have kids who go to bed at 7, 7:15, then we can scoot out and go to something like this. Just a suggestion.
>> Is that feasible to do like one at one time and one at another time? >> Yeah. Yep. That's why I brought this here. I wanted to get some feedback on that. I mean, I'm I'm >> I was even thinking one in the morning, one at night. We don't get a lot of attendees in the morning. Yeah,
>> but it's maybe it's a early afternoon and a 7 or 7:30 or something like that. >> Well, you know what's interesting about that is that this is a community conversation, not a parents conversation. And so it's true, we don't get a ton of parent participation in the
morning, but you might get seniors in the morning. Mhm. >> And to Megan's point, like maybe you do a 7:30 one in the evening and then I don't know like I because I that is and that's been a long time you off like often times we like oh we'll do one
during the day and one during then you just don't get a lot of people during the day >> or even like a mid like anytime. I mean there's also parents who a lot of folks more folks work from home or you know might be able to sneak away during the day too. So you might be surprised noon >> the noon one.
>> Um I like the idea of having it at two different times. I don't have deep thoughts about what those two different times are, but it's, >> you know, that it gives a two different >> possibilities depending on people's schedules,
>> particularly if one is before it gets dark cuz that was a complaint. >> But that was a complaint of several seniors is that they didn't want to drive in the dark. >> Correct. That was that was a big discussion. >> Yeah. So maybe we do a morning and then and an do maybe a 9:00 a.m. And
>> I just have to figure out parking during the They have to >> That's the only problem. >> If we have it on school property, >> zero parking >> during the school day. >> During the school day, >> would the library let us have >> or the rec center maybe like over there? You know, >> we'd have to pay rent rent maybe.
>> Can ask. >> Yeah, that's a thought. I mean I Yeah. >> Can we also make sure these get posted in big letters in the newspaper? Oh yeah, we'll share it with all the local news. These are going to get mailed to every single house in the community.
>> That's the plan. >> My other um my other concern is that it's really clear what we want to walk away with at the end of it. Like or what the purpose the purpose that we're trying to get at is like this is a this is a conversation. You know, we're
getting information. I think it's worded really well, but sometimes I feel like people will come, they'll they'll have an opinion, they'll tell us something and then they get mad when we don't implement it. So, we have to explain like this is a conversation. We're
taking all viewpoints into consideration. Um, is it going to be recorded also or No, >> I can check with cable. I'm not sure if they'll be able to do it in the library. I mean, they could maybe if we do it in the calf, but I can ask I'll ask.
>> Yeah. And >> ham. >> I mean, that's part of the I mean, it's a good point, but we've all, you know, it's part of making it and that would be on you if you're is making it clear that it's a conversation we're throwing, you know, we're >> like, um,
but yes, that's a valid point. Um, I'm sort of still focused on the whether I guess I'm leaning I'd like to hear what other people think about like how to whether or not to include like and
members of the school committee. I don't know what you guys think. I I I'm sort of I I think I think school committee I really want school committee members to be there. I think that's really important. I'm not so sure how important it is to put it in here because it's not the focus.
It's not really it's a real it's not the focus like what I don't know >> and it also like my concern would be that people would show up to her school committee members not to have a constructive discussion.
Well, let's let's give people some like people might want to come and just talk to the school committee and that's okay, but but the point is a broader conversation. So, um whether they wanted to give I don't know. I guess I I in
some ways I'm very torn because I do want people to know that the school committee is going to be there to listen and hear and witness this conversation and gain from it. But I also feel like what's really important is the community aspect of this, not really the school committee
aspect. And so I'm sort of torn about I mean >> Yeah. And the focus is a workshop. So it's more of like a workshop, >> right? >> I know it can be very hard to sort of wordsmith something as a group. Um, but I just does it help to say that it's a
community conversation led by the superintendent to share thoughts, perspectives, ideas, and then I don't know, I know that the card is almost full, but as a second sentence say that representatives of the school committee
will also be in attendance. Something to that. because I I if I'm understanding it correctly, it's like we're trying to sort of >> differentiate between sort of the committee presenting or leading the conversation or facilitating the conversation as opposed to more being
>> or being the conversation, >> right? As opposed to more making sure we're having a firsthand experience listening to the community basically. >> Yeah. I like the idea of for me I like that like some in some way or form school committee members will be in
attendance. I think that's a nice that's the right level like they'll be there but they're not that's not the focus. The focus is the >> because I I also think there could be some members of the community that might be disappointed if there weren't school committee members there. I mean there
will be people with all diversity of opinion about the right role for the committee in this. So I think I think better for some of us at least to be there in some way, you know. >> Yeah,
>> I think it makes sense. I like how you worded it. School comm school committee members will also be in attendance to >> or just maybe will also be attendance. Period. Right. >> But I like led by the superintendent. >> You think maybe we maybe
>> do you not want to say that Eric does that >> facilitated? >> Facilitated. Yeah, facilitated. Yeah, we could do facilitated is probably a good word. >> Yeah. Are you thinking of having >> You could even just say community conversations to share thoughts, perspectives and literally doesn't have to >> Yeah. Could just be silent on the
detail. >> I Yeah, I I kind of think that might be better. >> Okay. >> Do you have a format in mind? >> Yep. >> Okay, cool. Secret. Um
and I I am planning on being there. I don't know. Me too. >> That is helpful. >> I mean it and obviously for it will matter to the to committee members too. I'm sure what time these things are happening. >> Yeah. I could definitely do the 7th
early in the morning, but I can't do the 29th classes. >> Same. >> And it's going to be just like >> Yeah, I could do right. Just like the community. It'll be a mix and match of >> I'm a part of a community. >> I'm a part of the community.
>> Right. Like daytime is very hard for me, but I can do a night time. >> Right. Exactly. Um, no. And I think that was good feedback about like sometimes I think I wouldn't necessarily like to think about like later is actually easier cuz the kids have gone to bed and it's a little bit
easier. Um, >> except you hoped you had that much quiet time, >> right? Right. >> But I think this is a great idea. >> My free evenings are >> Eric, thank you for offering to lead this. I think it's it is really really great idea. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And the goal will be to take this information, put together a report, get it to the committee early February. >> Um and that way it's it's front and center in our conversations that budget approval warrant design for the uh town
meetings. And if we need anything to come out of this to be uncommon, we have that leverage. >> Yeah. >> Thanks, Eric. >> All right. Um, thank you. Did you feel like you got what you needed? >> Yep. Perfect. Thank you. >> Okay.
>> Um, next up, um, I we added this, um, Ashray 241 update at the request of, um, committee member. This was um back in I wrote it down, but I don't remember when it was, but in the spring um the
committee vote had a vote to um investigate um the Ashray 21 241 uh air quality standards um to investigate cost of um upgrading our
systems to um that standard. Um part of the um motion stipulated that um we would get this estimate of cost only if it didn't cost us money to get the
estimate. Um and anyway, this is the followup to that to close out this um item. Eric, can you make it bigger up there or I guess I can pull it? >> Yeah.
>> Is that better? Yeah. Thank you. >> Want me to take it? >> Yep. >> Okay. So, we it was uh Mr. Frankle who requested this I think last meeting to bring back around. Dana hit on the the high points the the second paragraph. Um
talked about B2Q was a a company um that we worked with that did kind of an overview. So Vicky Mason, who is the energy manager for the town of Hamilton and Buenom and a few others, um connected us up with this B2Q who was
able to start to look at some of the uh realities of what it would cost just to update and upgrade um some of the equipment, just HVAC, not to to 241. Uh 241 is really expensive.
It's really high-end, highrade. Um, but these are some of the options that they came to us with. Like option one would be 3.4 million just at the Buer alone. That doesn't count anything with hazardous materials or uh retrofit costs
due to construction constraints like the building structure etc. So these these are really order of magnitude estimates that were given. Um and that the company, you know, that gave these could give no guarantee that a construction company would say, "Yeah, I'll do it for
that." So just kind of an order of magnitude of uh so showing how we could electrify basically our HVAC systems at all the schools and get rid of all the the um fossil fuels.
So, this we just wanted to close this out. It was a a motion many months ago and just bring it back around. So, >> does anyone have any questions? >> I kind of do. I guess kind of that's not it's not a good way to start a question.
um in the chart. So this is estimates for upgrading electrical right in each school which we're assuming would be kind of like the base to the project of doing it this of meeting this ashray standard like we would need to do that in order to
>> yeah that makes sense. >> So be electrifying the current systems which are um a combination of fossil fuels. >> Oh I see the Okay. So it would be all the way back to a a ventilation systems
that are on the roof. Uh ventilation system I mean um boilers and pumps that might be in quot a boiler room. So anything that's related to to those items as well as what's happening in the classroom. So like some of our older classrooms have ventilators >> Mhm.
>> that are original. They're they're literally a unit that is either run by electricity which is not a common thing or in most cases steam steam heat is run through and then electric motor turns on and that's how the room is
heat. So so this would convert everything to straight electric. >> Got it. um which would be this this doesn't look at anything outside of the buildings either like okay do we need a transformer >> right >> uh size increase to be able to pull something like this off probably at the
high school we ran into that problem with the boiler uh installation at the high school where they wanted $600,000 to to put another an upgraded transformer across the street if we if we were going to go all electric. So >> got it. >> These are really order magnitude.
They're they're really like we think you could do it for this, but we're not 100% nailed down on it. So, >> thank you. >> Okay. >> It's a lot of money. >> It's a lot of money. >> A lot of money. >> There's a lot of money. >> Um
>> Okay. Does anybody have anything else on this? Okay. Um so you know um David who's the one who requested that we bring this back is unfortunately not here this evening but I just purpose of bringing this back is to fulfill that that motion is complete
and that the report has been brought to the committee. Um so my goal is to have this be complete at this time. Right. Um, all right.
Next, we are moving on to FY27 budget discussion. Thank you. And thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. an awkward moment during a test.
>> Yeah. >> All right. Thank you everyone. As you uh remember, we presented the budget and the initial uh preliminary budget last meeting. Vinnie went through a number of slides,
gave uh many pages of information. So, I wanted to try to help the committee walk through a conversation tonight to give us some direction of where we want to go. Uh we've talked about some of the ins and outs and the ups and downs and the increases and why. I think everybody I
think everybody understands that, but if you don't, please ask cuz Vinnie and I want to make sure everybody's clear on uh what's out there. But right now in conversations with the towns um after we've talked with them at the the both the quintuple level of of the full
boards and also at the individual levels with town meter town managers and their budget people. The town of Hamilton is asking us to reduce their share. So keep that in mind their share by 1.4 million. Um and bear with me as I go through
this. I'll help you kind of see how what that number looks like. Um and in the same concern in the same conversation different conversation different town we had when I'm asking to reduce our their share by approximately a million dollars. So if you if you look at those
numbers keep those numbers in your head for a little bit and I'll I'll walk you through some better detail in another slide but that's roughly what they're asking us to do. And you know if you're looking at reducing Wom by a million dollar that reduces Hamilton by $2
million. Remember it's 2 to1 basically when we assess do an assessment which be a total of $3 million in reductions. So what options do we have? And this is certainly not an exhaustive list. I just wanted to put some items on the table. You may have other ones that you may
come up with. We can kick the can down the road and try to back fill with whatever we have. Um something similar last year. Not my favorite option. Not Vinnie's either. We can say, "Okay, we'll leave the budget as it is and go for an override in each town of
everything that's in the current budgets." You could try to reduce between 1 and $3 million out of the budget um as it was presented. You could do a combination of override and some reductions in the budget. And
then you could look into things like how do we reconfigure the district to save money while also pro probably having to do some reductions. That's a little more complex and I think that's a wider community conversation. But I just wanted to throw some options on the
table. You certainly could may have other options but just the idea here is just to open the discussion tonight. So I just took a number. I said what's 5% of reductions look like in our budget? It's about $2 million. So if you cut 5%
I've asked our leadership team to go through the exercise and say okay in the I'll use the buer they're about 3.7 million 3.8 $8 million total. Take 5% of that. Do do some reductions and we did that in
every area including athletics, central office, technology, special education. We asked everybody to sit we sat in a meeting and went through um trying to get people to do a 5% reduction. That was not an easy exercise and very uncomfortable because I'll I'll show you
why. These are the things that get impacted. supplies, faculty and staff, athletic user fees would increase, contracted services would be lost, professional development and memberships would be either reduced or cut completely. Uh home hospital
tutoring would be reduced. Reducing home services. Uh we would not update our devices. So uh next year I think the high school teachers are due for their rotation every 5 years. Uh we would not update those computers. Just leave what they have. um losing some central office
functions. Uh cutting late buses, one maybe two. There are two currently now. Uh stipens for extracurriculars would be reduced or cut out completely. Um graduation expenses would have to be reduced and then transportation reductions where we could. Those are a
little bit harder because transportation in a regional school district is required, but we might have to look differently at say special ed transportation, some of those costs, uh athletics transportation, some of those costs. So, just some things that that fall in just in that 5% bucket. Just me
looking over what everybody would put in the list for me to say, "Okay, these are the things that are showing up in there." Uh, some things to think about upcoming negotiations. We have ESPs. We're starting them on the 11th, I believe, right? December 11th. Uh, so
that's a a process we have to think about that will impact next year's budget if we successfully negotiate a contract between now and the end of the school year. Uh, yeah, the end of the school year. uh we would that would impact the budget we suspect in some way, shape or form. Uh END
supplementation is problematic. Uh we put $2 million in the budget from END last year to offset rather than um reduce. And that right now is still something we're going to wrestle with. So, uh if we were to say, "Yeah, let's do that again." If we
could actually afford to do it, we would say, "Let's do that again." And we'd be doing this again next year at a higher magnitude, a higher volume of reductions. New capital, uh, high school roof, as you know, is is in the MSBA process right now. Um, due to be discussed and
hopefully accepted in the December MSBA meeting. Um, that's that's about a $5.84 million ask. And then OPED, is that our priority? Do we leave it as a priority? We have been agre we agreed many years ago to
continuously add $50,000 to OPED OPED each year through 2020 2032 I believe it is and then lock it at that point. So right now we're in this budget for next FY27 we're looking at contribute uh
contributing $350,000 in OPED. You know is that something that you want to continue to do? you want to freeze or you want to look at reducing. Um, this Vinnie spoke about the budget. There's about $600,000 in needed uh
maintenance that's in the budget, built into the budget and not a separate capital ask. The reason being is a separate capital ask is a one-time shot. Building it into the budget gives us the opportunity to continue to fix and
repair things. And if I had Curtis here right now, he would tell you he he's out of money. He is currently out of money. He Vinnie and I had conversations with him. Uh he does not have the ability to do some of the things we need to do. So we we may be moving some money around
just in the FY26 budget. And then do you reduce the the fund the the $100,000 that we set aside for capital stabilization? you know, we want to continue to try to fund that so that future capital expenses can be offset, but that's
another area to look at if you're looking at not directly impacting the classrooms. So, let me talk a little bit about impact. Currently, we're looking at $3.896 million increase that and you guys
you've seen the slides related to salaries, stepping column changes, etc., insurance increases, a lot of things that that um have contributed to that number, which breaks down the Hamilton Hamilton increase being 2.4 million and the
Wenham increase at currently at 1.4 million. Now remember, Wenham's asking us to reduce the 1.4 to to 495,000. So let me show you how that works. If you dropped a million dollars out of
the current budget scenario, that would drop Hamilton down to $1.7 million increase, which is about 7.1%. And when I'm down 1.1 1.2 million, which is about 9.1%. If you dropped
1.5 million, you're looking at Hamilton going dropping down to 5.8% increase and Wenham dropping down to a 7.74% increase. If you dropped $2 million, reduce $2 million from the current budget
scenario, that would drop Hamilton down to $4.46% increase or about a million dollars. And then uh when I'm at 6.38% increase and then I'm going to stop at this one. $2.5 million. If you would to cut $2.5
million from this budget, Hamilton would drop down to a 3.12% increase over last year and one would be 5.01% increase over last year. So, a couple of things I want to throw on the table along with these numbers.
Remember this chart that Vinnie did? It was very fancy. Moved in and out uh different parts and pieces. I'm going to steal this microphone so everybody can hear me. But I items like health and life insurance, other fixed benefits,
tuitions, elder district tuitions, required transportation, maintenance and cleaning supplies, utilities. These items right here really can't be reduced. We can't just cut our benefits. We don't have that ability. We
can't just cut um fixed charges. We can't cut out of district tuitions. They tell us what we pay. um required transportation is required by the state. So we we can't really cut that. So now you're looking from here, which is athletics in this light blue, around to
here. And this is where the big impact comes in, your staffing. So I just wanted to put that up there to just give people an idea of what types of things we're looking at from the perspective of where we can look and where we can't.
And I wanted to just really get all this in front of you tonight so that we can have a discussion, open a discussion, get some ideas, and hopefully we can Vinnie and I can walk away with a direction from the committee because we have two meetings until the uh initial
budget presentation in January, which is always kind of this is roughly where we're going to be at. Um, so next meeting we would come back with whatever direction we got from the committee whether it's reductions or bring the whole thing back. So really just wanted
to get that conversation going in in public and give you some information to hopefully kick that off. So I'm going to switch back to my other seat. >> Okay. Thank you for that. Um, all right.
>> I have 8 million thoughts. Other people, let's go. I I just have a clarifying question I think um in the slide that's the impact of cut slide with the rectangle boxes that show like the minus a million minus500.
So if I'm understanding this correctly to reduce by 1.4 million for Hamilton and and a million byum we're somewhere around cutting $2 million from the budget. That means like the third rectangle down is that
correct? 3 million, right? To get to what they want. Three million >> get to what the towns are asking for. >> They want 2.4 million >> about 3 million. Okay. >> For both of them to avoid >> both of them to avoid. Okay. >> Right. But we can't cut a million from Wenom and then only 1.4 million from P.
>> Correct. >> Right. So we'd have to cut three. >> So this is showing how that kind of shakes out between both towns. >> You you have a I mean really well done to be able to pick that block. I was going to during the conversation say like one of the places you can be where
Hamilton is comfortable maybe that that third block but Wenom I think would still be problematic >> given given the information they're given us. I don't have an exact number because I don't know Wam's exact revenues, >> what their revenue projection is, but >> that number is probably over where they
can comfortably they're they're looking to try to get 4% growth annually out of the government side and the school side. Um it's it's it's also impacted because the shift went to Wenham two years in a row this year and next year which was
$140,000 I think $138,000 just before we even started doing anything they got $130,000 >> and well I'm sure we're going to discuss but and the END which we
did did very publicly purposefully >> the towns were aware ware of what the impacts you know that we knew that the END use last year was going to create
>> this million dollar shortfall. >> Yeah. I mean so this is not it doesn't make it not real. It just means that it's something we did know. So >> have another question which I don't
relish asking. I'm just curious because I'm trying to understand all the facts >> or possibilities and I'm not endorsing any one line of anything. Um, is it realistically feasible to engage
in midterm bargaining with the teachers union? Because under their agreement, it says if there's a change in economic conditions and so forth, we can do that. I don't know if this meets that standard, but I just am I don't I don't
know. I'm not aware of precedent that for that in any district in the area, but I'm just, you know, >> you can make the request. They don't need to >> right >> say yes. I mean, you could certainly go forward and say, "Okay, we have a serious economic issue here. Let's
relook at things." You could you could make that request. I don't know that they would have to agree to come to the table because they already have an agreement. >> Right. Right. >> Okay. >> Other people. >> I have some thoughts.
>> Yeah, sure. But I mean I don't know if people have questions first or if you because I I think I mean my understanding is you really do need direction from us like about what you want us. >> So like I don't know if people are willing to sort of dive in on what you
think the direction that you're >> I'm not in favor of kicking the can. I would say >> in general. So if we can eliminate one of these bullets we're down to four, >> right? >> I mean that's true. That's a good point. >> Five questions. >> And again, they're not all of them. I
mean, in fact, like in in fact, >> you know, like you just asked a question about something like is it even feasible to do that? Like there might be a other questions that people might ask that might be something like could we do something? I I don't have one, but >> Well, I just asked that because it's one
it's our biggest expense category. That's why you know. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Do we have any idea of how reductions cuz I know they're going to disproportionately affect the middle school and high school. How those are going to affect class size cuz I know we
do have space at the high school. We have some classes that are six or seven students. >> Yeah. If you there is some room. Um but remember go back to what we talked about when when we talked to the the um principles about reductions. We gave
them round numbers. is we say look if you're looking at a teacher use the number 60,000. So when you start using 60,000 and 60,000 is the bottom end it's actually below the bottom end of our scale. There are other things that could also be added on top of that like if the
person's receiving benefits that's also a savings for us but we just said use that 60,000 number um to figure out your first 5%. And when you start to do that, you're looking at 10 people is 600,000,
not close. 20 people is 1.2 million. Still not there, you know. So you start to you start and and some of the cuts are even smaller because you're looking at say support staff. Support staff don't even make that much. They're
making in the 20 to 30 range depending on when they were hired. So th those are all kind of difficult numbers to work with. it becomes a a fairly substantial number. But yeah, you would you have some room at the high school. It depends on what what you want to offer for
opportunities for kids, too. We want to look at everything and say, "Okay, can we kind of look at all of it, figure out where the the holes are. I did the enrollment report two meetings ago on purpose so that people could see that. Um, you can see some of the some of the
places and the principles and I have had those discussions. there are they're difficult to have you know when we get to these points. >> Could you refresh my memory like what we would need to cut to avoid an override >> cuz I remember thinking it was
completely not feasible but I don't remember what the number was >> they're telling they're telling us roughly >> oh they so each town said to avoid an override that's the number 1.4 4 and 1 million are just estimates like they have, you know, they have to figure out >> they're still working on final revenue figures and they're actually Wenham's
not doing their budget discussion I think till Saturday. >> So they're they're still in the kind of the beginning stages. >> This is just the conversations we've had with town administrator, town manager and their business, their um finance people with Vinnie and I to say, "Okay,
where do you need to be? Give us a number." So this is what they they were able to give us in the past week. A number could change revenues could change. I don't I don't know what state aid looks like for >> for the the towns, but ours does does not change that much. I mean, as we've
seen, >> but it's a significant number and >> it's a significant number. >> I personally don't think it's feasable feas feasible reasonable or feasible. >> So, yeah, I didn't want to step on you. >> N So,
I agree. I don't think this amount of reduction is reasonable or feasible. >> Reasonable. I if we can go back to the chart with the I guess my feeling the
impact of cuts chart um that one you know my feeling is when I look at this it's it's difficult because the percentages are very high in you know nearly all of these boxes. I guess when I'm looking at it and I'm thinking about the budget that we presented, I'm
thinking about the fact that overall the district had a increase in enrollment of about 37 students overall. Is that right? >> I think it was 37. >> So we had you know it um
small increase 37. Yeah. >> Right. I I guess I just to me that like I think that if we're talking about being within that top box of you know trying to make reductions which might
have to include you know who knows what but you know in that up to a million dollar range I guess I would encourage that I would expect that we can make some reductions from the the initial budget that we saw like I
think that's reasonable to ask that there's be some reduction from that budget and it's you know I don't see given like that we're going to end up at least likely at least town one town is going
to be asking for an override and I guess I don't see a benefit to doing like crushing reductions and still having to go for an override even if it's a smaller override. I just I think
we prevented an override last year. we use that money. And I guess I'm saying like what my vision is is that like I think that the budget that we got presented last time does need to be trimmed, but I don't think it
I I don't think these big numbers I I think it's like you're in that up to that top box, like the box before that box basically. I mean, I don't know. That's right. If we trimmed a million dollars,
it's basically 6.6 uh 666,000 from Hamilton and 333,000 from Wenom. So, we're giving Wom a third of what they want and we're giving Hamilton almost half of what they want.
That's not bad. Well, and I guess I'm sort of saying like that to me a million dollars out of that budget that we saw is a lot. It's it I'm not even really comfortable with saying that. I'm just saying I think
>> it does need to be trimmed. I >> just just so people are clear, back to what Vinnie said last meeting, there will still be some revenue adjustments. We just don't have final numbers. So that million dollars,
>> right, >> might be easier to get at if we had $200,000 more coming from somewhere. We just don't finalize those numbers until we get into late December, January. >> Mhm. >> So >> where and which budget packet? I was trying to find it. Um is the pie chart
that kind of shows the budget kind of allocated by school? >> It kind of breaks it down by each >> is that in the detail one? >> The detail. Okay. I don't know if it's a pie chart though. I think numbers chart. >> Just numbers. Okay.
>> Can certainly make one very quickly. >> That's okay. Um, >> so just >> so I would say just to I don't know cuz I'm I think you know I know you want some direction. You asked for the 5%. Could we come back and like look at what
2% might look like because that's not quite a million, right? This is just a recommendation to like see what that looks like, I guess. >> Right. I mean, that's part of >> not that it's not going to be awful.
>> Just under a million. I think 800 >> 35,000. Mhm. >> I just I wanted >> understanding that it's still going to dramatically affect everything on the >> what does the 5% reduction include? >> I I wanted to just sort of touch on
something that I felt really strongly about under the things to think about. Mhm. >> Um like the maintenance the maintenance budget in this budget is significant and
the feedback that we've gotten for a long for for a long time, the feedback we've gotten from the public and from the towns. Um and certainly in the most recent um vote on the consolidated school, the feedback
that we've gotten is that it's our responsibility that the expectation from the public is that we are going to maintain our schools and >> a big I think that the maintenance budget has been historically
a place that has sometimes maybe been sacrificed >> and I feel like it would be just really wrong to take that out of the >> budget and put it into a capital expense
because it's then it's just a one-time it's not honoring what I'm hearing and what I think we've been hearing from a long time from the towns and like the government of the towns and from the people of the towns that we want to
provide maintenance for our schools and this is what it costs and it needs to be in the budget. >> So >> yes, >> that's just a thing that I'm saying under things to think about. That's my and I'm open to other people having a different opinion. >> No, I agree with you. I mean, I feel
like this whole list are all these things that we've made strides on in the time I've been on school committee. Like it would hurt, I think, to let go of some of these things like OP. >> I can't really hear you, Amy. >> Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm just relaxing back
in my chair. I was just saying, you know, a lot of these things on this particular list are things that we've really made strides on in the time that I've been here. It would I would feel horrible about letting them go. Like I know that something has to give somewhere. Well, and the OPED is an
excellent example to me of something that >> like it is so important >> to do something because >> it 20 years from now, whoever's sitting here is going to be very grateful that
we did that. >> Oh, you should do it. Yeah. >> It's it's, you know, it's and that's and it's the same with the maintenance. The idea is to do it for the future so that you're creating you're setting yourself up for success.
You're not setting yourself up for, you know, trying to fix things on the fly with um scotch tape. >> I have a >> Can I Yeah, go ahead. >> I just wanted to see if two newest members know understand OPED what it is. >> Okay. I just I just had to ask. I I
wasn't sure. Just want to make sure. I was going to say cuz took me years Julia and I needed to go many times to understand though that's a number people don't understand in so in public when you start to talk about OPED your select board people get
it your fin people get it >> the average person is like well I'm not sure what that is those are all the retirees how many retirees do we have 50 100 200 >> 400 little little over 200, right? 200
>> I believe it's almost 250. >> Yeah, 250 retirees that that we're paying some sort of benefit for, which is generally health insurance. We don't offer a lot of outsider benefits, but that ends up a million dollars. >> Yeah, >> that's a mill.4
>> $1.4 million. So, that's a those are big numbers you're looking at. Okay. OPAB $1.4 million. If somebody had 25 years ago funded that for us, we'd be taking it from that fund and that would save us a million dollars in the budget. But like Dana said,
>> it's a it's a gambit. You get to 20 I think 2032 that number ends up at in the plan that number ends up at I think $700,000 and then you lock that in. >> That's hard. That's going to be hard for people to do in the future. But it's a necessary evil to because that 1.4
number is not going to shrink. People are living longer. people are retiring earlier. >> Well, it's hard in the future, but it would be even harder if we don't do it. It'll be even worse in the future. And I I just >> Yeah, it's just hard for people to see that far out when you're talking 20
years from now where we can be uh using the interests on those funds to be able to offset that million plus. It'll probably be 2 million in the next seven or eight years at the rate we're going. Um, in that vein, I was wondering about the contribution to the capital
stabilization fund and is does that relate to also like the comments that Mr. Madden has brought before the committee a couple times about a reserve? Is that something different than a stabilization fund or is it the same? >> No. The capital stabilization fund in a regional school district capital stabilization fund is specifically
designed to allow districts to hold money for use for capital projects which our definition is above 25,000 in the regional agreement. So c any capital projects um and it it's it's there when you need it. You just have to you know
say you have the fields are a good example. We put $1.7 million in there. We built the fields. We had to pay that bill. we took it out and then we have to notify at the time in the next annual report we'll say we used x number of dollars for this. So it's a so the
public knows yes they voted it to go in and we took it out and this is what we use it for. Um but those are it's good to have if you if you had $10 million in there you could get a lot done. It's just not enough in the big scheme of what we need to do. M
>> well we use we use it to fund the initial project on the roof to get the >> Yep. >> and a portion of the turf field. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> I have a question about under what options do we have the reconfigure the
district? What does that mean? >> So if you there's a lot to this. This is this is This is like trying to open a coconut with a pen. The um the district has three elementary school. I'm going to
use that elementary as an example. District has three elementary schools. We currently have in most of our grade levels seven teachers. Average class size is 19. Um some of those classes are smaller, some of those classes are a hair bigger. If you brought and I'll use
the buer prek K here and you put one two in Cutler and 345 in Winthrop as as as well as your specialized program, you'd be able to pull one staff
member from each grade level. Is it ideal? No. Does it raise class sizes? Absolutely. To like 23 or four depending on how how things shake out. But it's easier to balance when you have everybody in the same building. So all the all the second graders are in the
same building. The second grade teachers are in the same building. So you can balance the numbers across those rooms much more easily than if they're in uh three different buildings. You look at kindergarten is a good example. Each year kindergarten has shifted. So kindergarten, there were three kindergarten classes in in Winthre last
year. Now there's three over in Cutler. Um that will go back to Winthre next year. And those numbers tend to move around depending on where kids are located. So that's one piece of the puzzle. You could look at combining, you know,
different grades like moving up fifth grade, moving eighth grade to the high school. There's there's different things, different sharing the exact same schedule at the middle and high school and looking at u efficiencies with staffing. But again, those moves will will change
class sizes. No doubt about it. you know, our classes, our class sizes are, in my opinion, really good comparatively. Um, so when you look at it from a comparison around other districts, we're we're in really good shape with our class sizes. There are a lot of class sizes that are small at the
high schools. Some of them because they're specialized classes like AP US History is always a great example. You always have kids that want to take it. Some years you have 10, some years you have 18. Do you not run it? uh when there's 10, we we try to give kids the opportunity to run those things. So,
it's it's more of a what types of things are you willing to give up because staff cuts are going to you're going to lose something if you start cutting staff. I have a question about like planning lead times like if we did that kind of reconfiguration
or if we were going to cut one or $2 million from the budget or something. What kind of internal planning lead time does the district need to actually think through all those changes and implement them? >> Uh it would be April till the start of
school year and probably beyond. >> Okay. >> Yeah. It would be once we knew which direction we were going in, we it would it would be a a horse race. Things got to be moved around. People have to be relocated. It there's a there's a lot involved in that, which is why I kind of put it at the bottom and said this is
because every building has their own culture. >> Every the staff has worked together a lot. In a lot of cases, our staff's been together for a long time. M Cutler's probably got the youngest um group of kind of they've had this kind kind of sequential group of new people coming in each year, but they still have their own
cultures and to break that up is is difficult sometimes cuz you got you know like certain grades are humming in certain schools like they work together well and they can do things um more efficiently. But it's it's hard to do. It's hard on parents because if your kid, you know, walks to Buer, but
suddenly Buucer doesn't have third grade, your kid's on a bus, those are pro that's problem. Those are problems, too. Those It's uncomfortable in a lot of ways, not just staffing. It's It's just >> So, yeah, I guess I want to say I I'm
glad you put this on here because I like that that you you and the leadership team are thinking outside the box and being creative and being open to new ideas and obviously, you know, we were open, the school
committee was open to some, you know, um reconfiguration. Obviously, we were looking at the consolidated school. I think I I guess my I would just for me I I I kind of want both. I want that
people the leadership team and everyone to continue to think about those things and to me those are things that would need to be done cautiously and not like between now and September. Like I,
you know, in other words, >> like I would want to hear all about like I have thoughts about some of those things I think sound good and some I think don't sound good at all. But I'd want to hear about like >> maybe there is an opportunity there, but I don't think it's something that
>> I this I wouldn't want it done that quickly. Like I would want it done more. >> It would be a drastic my opinion it' be a drastic measure. It it takes time like to to reorganize >> just to if we if we passed the new
elementary school and we're went with that that direction, it would take us the next two years just to get everybody >> in the mode to work, you know, kind of come together as one. It would it would take a long time and that that was part of our planning process when we were originally trying to figure that whole
thing out. So, even something like this is not an overnight transportation alone would I mean if you've been part of our transfer bus system, we were talking about it the other day, like what would that look like now if we're transferring kids all over the district. So, it's
it's uh you know, you unfortunately can't just go pick up one group of kids kids all around town. So, it's it's there are complexities in there that could end up costing us more money. >> Mhm. And that's a that's something to to take some time to look at.
>> Well, I mean, if I'm looking at the one options, do we have one? So, it's like we don't want to kick the can and it sounds like we don't want to reconfigure. Too disruptive, too many moving parts. >> I wouldn't mind looking at reconfiguring for a future.
>> Future. Yeah. >> But not for this, not for next fall, basically. Mhm. >> So I mean, so I think like for this for the budget under consideration, then it it's we're back to a combination of override
and override and some reductions and it seems like 3 million is too high for for a cut, right? So we can't cut three. So because I was one of the reasons I was looking at looking for the the sheet
that does the budgets by building like for this year FY26 Buer's whole operating budget is 3.4 Cutler is 3.5 Winthrop is 4.8 so cutting $3 million is de facto cutting the school almost and
so and we've heard from the community very loudly that they do not want >> consolidation at the elementary school level. So, if we were trying to do it intentionally with years of planning and design and everything and it was rejected, I don't think that it would be
wise to sort of do it de facto into two buildings that still would bring with it um maintenance challenges, capital issues, and no funding to really materially address them other than the fact that maybe whatever nominal amount
would be added to the one building could be reallocated the other two or something. But that still doesn't to me seem like a large amount of money to address the cap deferred maintenance issues really. So I so so to me I'm sort of I think we could eliminate the first bullet, eliminate the last bullet. 3
million's too high. So I feel like we're narrowing the the path of >> I Well, I mean I I think that was an excellent summary. I have to just say that was fabulous. That's because I was sitting here thinking like, okay, I need to kind of summarize and I was like,
there you go. Um I mean does that like does that feel accurate what Kristen just said is that I I will say that for me the only the only part I would say and maybe we should sort of get other people's sense of where because for me that was very accurate that you
summarized the group I will say me personally um 3 million is way too high like I'm not sure that we can really get to 1 million.
I'm say like I I'm hedging cuz I don't, you know, I I trust these guys to look at it. >> I'm saying that I really do want some reductions, but I'm looking at even that. That's why I was kind of in that top box like even there feels like a lot. So,
>> and we might I know you're looking for consensus or kind of guidance. So like I don't know whether other people feel like there I just wanted to sort of express that like that was accurate I think of the group but for me I'm not just saying 3 million is too high.
>> Oh yeah neither am I. I I mean I'm just trying to kind of like >> conversation a little like just to kind of get to a >> just because I feel as though >> or I think that it seems to me like the time just moves so quickly
>> for the budget season and that there are so many interconnected parts here with the towns and with us and that's why I asked the planning question like if we were to cut something what does that look like operationally for staff to like make that happen because I
And I don't I'm not really in favor of any cuts really, but I think if that's happening, I think the sooner we >> sort of make that decision, the better for Eric and his team and the teachers and ultimately the students, you know, to have the maximum amount of lead time to make these things happen. That's
where I was going with that. people. >> The million number for me does one thing that I think is important is that it takes those double digit increases that we're seeing in Wom and gets them under a double digit. Now, it it shouldn't matter, right?
>> No, but it is I do think it's a psychological thing, >> but it is psychological. Like 9.1 is a whole different number than 11 something. >> Yeah, I agree. But just so you understand, from what we've been told, that million would still mean an
override in both >> in both towns. No, I I get it. >> I can I just I just I I cuz I asked Eric to find this out. I do want to just be clear about when was the last time we actually had an override >> 200.
It was there was like seven in a row. >> Yes, there was. But it was a long >> 10 was the last one I believe. >> 2010 >> 2009 >> I think it was 2008. >> I guess I just wanted to I I guess the
reason I wanted to say that is because I was here. I lived here. It was difficult. I had young kids. I like I there was it was very difficult going to override after override year after year.
It was very difficult. At the same time I I want to sort of think about like it that's a very long time ago. Mhm. >> So like I think >> maybe some people maybe maybe like me
who were around and did that it feels like oh we've done this before. >> Yeah. But I just want to sort of say like it's true. It has happened before. And that was, you know, 16 years ago or
>> Well, I think at that time, and I I don't really know which way I'm asking, but I think one of the bigger problems with that time was that there were so many in a row >> in the row. Yes. >> Like, what's going on that there were so many in a row? I also wonder like
rolling this budget forward. I think we're seems to me like looking at the the teacher contract and all these other things we are that is a possibility you know particularly if we're increasing maintenance and we're increasing teachers cost. >> What's a possibility
>> successive years of overrides again? >> Well, particularly because we're using END in this budget, >> right? >> Well, okay. But >> is it I'm just asking >> but how by but we are using >> Yes. You mean the 830 that's in the
budget which we've been carrying. It used to be 770. >> Yeah. >> We've been carrying it along. Um so but this budget um
increase you know gets rid of the most of the 2 million that we put in LA the one that we did the one time >> 1.3 million of it >> right the >> so >> I mean is it better to have one big
override and be sort of >> good for a while or have like a couple years of overrides, but maybe communicate that as part of the plan. Like, >> well, I I guess maybe that's a good question because I don't see that as the plan. I don't see that. I mean, I can
look I don't see that as the plan being that we would over try to go for an override this year and then again next year. But >> well, I don't I don't either. I'm just saying like as a >> hypothetical question is is it better to >> if you I'll try to explain if you to if
you did a model and said okay the three we're going to hold that 3.8 we're going to go for two overrides if they're successful then the following year you're dealing with a lot lower level of increase. I mean this year we have just a big bump
of salaries that's a million five million four I think of salaries that that has kind of thrown this out of whack a little bit but if you do that you're you're starting whatever percentage I'll I'm just going to use a number because I don't remember the
exact one about 3% increase for everybody you roll that over we generally roll our budget at 4 and 1.5% so we're probably looking at five or 6% versus just 10 and a half >> right >> which is generally normal for us cuz we usually start at 5 or 6% and work our
way down to 3.8 3.9 to uh four. >> So it's it's a it's a reality. I just think it's um a straight up override to say all right we're just going to push this budget forward I think would be problematic and then we have to be ready on the other
side if it fails >> to cut to cut down below those numbers which is roughly what they're giving us. So now we're in a position in May to cut I'm just going to use the the $3 million to cut the $3 million and have another
special town meeting to >> to do it >> approve it. >> Well, so I actually I did some research um on some other overrides in other communities nearby who have gone through similar challenges just because I wanted to get some understanding. Right. Again, I think everybody knows I did not grow up in Massachusetts so this is all new
to me. um we have just a different style of um government there in in New York. Um and so um I just wanted to help myself understand kind of the override piece. Um and
it's you're right, we haven't had one here in a very long time in Hamilton or Winnham. Um and it was a series of multiple years of successive overrides that I think became challenging for the community. I think what I'm worried about is,
you know, what recently happened in Melrose where in 2023 voters rejected an override and then they had to make stark cuts um at the school. several, you know, a lot of
positions were cut and then the community formed a group to rally around it and they actually went back this past year and passed an even larger override because they didn't like the cuts that they made. And so I feel like that's perhaps a lesson for us because I mean
what we're talking about here, you know, just using the math that you've shared, right? If we're talking about a $3 million number, that's a significant number of positions and roles that would that would be lost. Um a similar thing happened in Georgetown
in 2003 23 as well. Um and they went through this past year and again approved an override. So it it's just and then in Mel um Marblehead they've had similar challenges and I think they're on the cusp of going back and
and passing a a larger override than they originally vetoed. Um, and so I'm personally struggling, right, with not not going forward with an over,
right, to me, I moved to this town and a lot of my friends moved to this town because of the school district, right? And that's that is a testament to the staff, the teachers, the education that we provide our students. And if we're talking about making some of these large
cuts, increasing class sizes, which we've heard from the community is not what we want, right? Um I just struggle very much with how do we how do we make how do we do this? How do we bring this
budget down in a way that doesn't result in a drastic impact to the quality of education we provide our students? On the other hand, as a taxpayer, I also struggle a little bit with right signing up for increase an increase in taxes.
And this is not even considering whatever else might be on the table. >> And I think Vinnie, you talked about it. I don't I don't recall if it was our last meeting or the one prior, but I mean, you kind of made the made the comment. Um,
and and Eric, you talked about it as well with the the funding that we're getting from the state. It seems like there are some severe structural challenges with how our budgets are allocated and built um and funded.
And that that seems like a hard pill to swallow to pass that on to taxpayers, but I just I struggle so much with how would we like the what would the ultimate impact be to the education that we provide our learners? >> Mhm.
>> When you say structured, you mean the money that we're getting from the state? >> Yes. And just >> Yeah. >> how little that is. >> And I I mean, I think that was well said. And I I guess where I'm coming down at this
point and I I I'm not sure if that's where you're kind of landing, but like I sort of feel like yes, we want to be as lean as possible while still honoring that our we want to provide our students with what they need and
like we need to bring it to the people and ask them if that's if they're willing to do that. I and I I I I >> I understand it's a risk like that maybe their answer is no and that that
like but I just don't I can't see not bringing to that to the voters what we really believe is necessary. I I just can't see doing that. Even though
I I understand it's, you know, it's a lot and it's difficult. It's to your point, it's what a lot of other communities have dealt with. >> It's what this community has been through before in the past. >> So,
I don't know other people I say one more thing. Yeah. >> Um, kind of building on your point, I think what happens when you make cuts, like if you look at the 5% reduction, and what I really think the public needs to understand is that if we are a community that is dedicated to
diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, if you're looking at the reductions here, it's athletic user fees will increase, its late buses cut, graduation expenses will increase, transportation reductions, stipens will be cut, late bus, like all of this affects um the most disadvantaged
students. And I just think that, you know, I say it all the time and I say it I'll say it every time. The budget is a reflection of our values. And I completely agree with you, Dana, that we all individually need a budget that we can be proud of and really excited to
present and really like can stand up for. Um, and I I mean I I think the budget is that, but I also agree that there there do need to be some reductions, but I'm just saying for me personally, I don't I don't think we can hit the million-dollar reduction mark.
But I'm willing to reach a consensus if everyone else is on that page. But I just think that would be a bridge too far and it would affect um disadvantaged students too much and all students too much. I just think if we
don't at least have something to show the town that we made the effort to cut because right everybody deals with their own household budget and if you know if prices go up you have one of two choices. You either make more money or
you cut and prices are going up. you know, we can't just say, "Well, we're going to raise the fees on you, but we didn't do anything to try and reduce, you know, the pain that we're about to put you through." And when's 30% people
over the age of 60, they've got no incentive to vote for a double digit budget increase. None. And we have to get it to pass with two majority >> property values because of the schools, right?
>> I don't think it'll be enough. I mean, I was I t was talking to friends about it like for the last two weeks and even people who have kids in the school system and the high school are are hesitant to vote for a double-digit increase in
>> Oh, I agree. But then the problem is they want you know every we all want to live in a community where we pay our teachers fairly where we have maintenance on all the schools where everything is safe and we have transportation and we provide all these services and I think it is like you said
like you really have to make hard choices like are we willing to pay for that or not? That's that's in my mind. >> Well and I and I >> and we just have to make hard choices and they might make a different decision than I would make. Right. No. And I and I
we don't I think it's important to listen and talk, but we don't actually know. In other words, like um there are incentives for people who don't have kids in the schools to want to have excellent
schools. And and it's not just property taxes. There's there's there are people that just want to live in a community that has excellent schools because they believe in the importance of educating the next generation. I mean, there really are things like that. And there are people
there are a million reasons why people might vote no or so we don't we can't know all of the reasons. Um, and it's really important to think about. I guess my I'm not sure. I think
that the biggest obstacle is going in terms of voting is is having an override at all is the biggest obstacle. Like the amount of the override of course is important, but the biggest obstacle is like that
you that you have to actually vote for an override. And I do think Jen is right about the psychological difference, but getting I I do think that is true. I don't know if we can get there under the double
digit. Um I'm not sure about that, but I think you're >> I'd like to be able to argue that we tried. Um, I I do think part of the reasoning behind the budget numbers this
year is the use of the END last year, which as a new committee member trying to kind of wrap my head around all these languages, you know, all these terms and the rules and everything, you know, that's just I don't think a concept that is
readily understood. you know, it doesn't exist like in your sort of >> super hard to understand >> small business or in your household or whatever. >> Um, and so I think >> I mean I remember around the town meeting times last year there were some folks saying like oh well you know
there's not an override because of the school but there will be you know there was kind of conversation you know about it. So I do think that I maybe it's helpful to say there could have been an override last year intentionally there was not so we could
focus on the consolidation that didn't happen. So we not only have kind of the deferred override from last year but the increases that are inherent in this year's budget just through the normal cost of living like teacher contract what have you. And I think this
is all really hard to explain and I think it's hard to get everybody's attention to explain all this detail. So I do wonder in the current fiscal year, do we have additional resources to help
support communications in some way to be >> around communicating around the budget? >> Yeah. No matter where it >> No matter what Exactly. no matter what it is because I do think that's a challenge. You know, I think the addition of the paper is super helpful
and all this and that, but there is and and I don't think everybody's on social media either. I mean, I do think that is undoubtedly a feature of everyday life now, but I I do think that the sort of community Facebook groups miss a lot of people, you know, who aren't in there. So, I think um I think it's really
tricky to get all of this information out with enough detail that people can make an informed choice without it sort of being overwhelming or confusing, you know, like I think this is this is really tricky, >> you know, I think understanding all this. >> Yeah. And how to message it. I mean,
because I I guess like I would sort of say like we did we did what we did last year to prevent an override And like that >> I mean it's done. >> We didn't know you never could know like
we didn't 100% know all of the moving parts of what this budget would look like and right you know one of the um town officials actually said well when we were doing that last year which was very public and that actually said well you know you should do what you can
every year to try to prevent an override. Like in other words, there there it should always be a discussion about what I mean, we just talked about kicking the can down the road. Like, >> you know, it it isn't always the right choice, but it is something you should always be discussing. And so that's what
happened last year. And so like to try to explain that it's like it >> it's a deferred >> it's a deferred thing. Like in other words, you could have had a budget override last year and then you could have had one. Well, I think it's we sort
of used sav like quote unquote savings almost last year to balance the bud. I mean, I know it's not really savings, but you know what I mean to kind of try to put it in more like everyday. >> What's hard about it is that like right, >> but it's just that like now it's in the
budget and so like next year like it's it's >> these are recurring costs. >> They're recurring costs. So, it's just a difficult Yeah. Um >> the one time the one time use of excess and deficiency is maybe good for one year but reflects
badly in the next year if you don't say you didn't have any excess and deficiency for FY27 and you didn't even have that 800. That's another 800 on top of that 3.8. So it's like it's as it's as bad as jacking your credit card up and paying
the minimum. It's it's it's hard to get out from underneath. And I think Vinnie and I have tried to strategize how do we from this point get off the E and D train and then try to lower even that annual number that we've been moving in
to to make it something more reasonable >> over three years or five years or something. >> I don't know if it's ever actually zero but there's there but there's different uses you can offset it with expenses. >> Presumably it was zero before 2020. >> It's been zero before. >> Yeah, it has been. It has been. Yeah,
it's >> so um all right. Do we I I don't know I like I don't know whether you feel like you have or what do you have questions or do you feel like you have guidance or what's your question like how can we be
>> I'll go back to this slide. So we we've taken the first one out, the last one out. >> I mean >> kind of the second one nobody's is anybody really willing to say let's go forward with it at all. >> The >> overey no matter what both communities
>> well >> won't change the budget at all. >> Don't change it from what you currently >> what we're presenting. I mean, part of me does wonder as a just a philosophical question, like to Julia's point about values and things like that to just,
you know, in the interest of like full transparency, this is what it takes to run the district. >> Mhm. to the level that everyone expects to do something with the buildings to pay the teachers to, you know, and and I
and I some even looking at this and I I understand the towns have um you know, requests and things, but I think the year-over-year facilities money is way too low. >> Yeah. Honestly, and I I wonder too
about, you know, all the other functions of the district. Like, do we have enough support in central office for all of the things we're trying to do right now? Do we have enough support in all the other buildings? Like, I just, you know, if anything, it seems to me like for what we're trying to achieve, like it's
honestly amazing what we do achieve >> with what we have, which I know is still like tens of millions of dollars. I'm not trying to say that I don't think it's a lot of money because I know that it's a huge amount of money, but it just when you look at how it's allocated across all the buildings, all the
facilities, all the staff, I mean, I think it's really amazing that what we do get done and that the people that are in front of our children every day are doing a really amazing job, you know, and so there is definitely a part of me that believes like you should do the
budget that you need to do. And and I'm saying this from like a nonprofit's background where there's always horse trading and negotiations and adjustments, but to say like we're we have these goals that we have been charged with and this is what it costs to achieve those goals.
>> Y I think there's an argument to be made there. I I understand people are saying that number is will not be palatable because it requires overrides, but I don't know. It's such a difficult decision because pushing for that and if it fails then that's what I sort of
worry about. So I'm sort of like am I undercutting my own argument because I'm concerned about what happens in May. We don't want to start the fiscal year without a budget. You know all these sort of downstream effects of of a failed override. But and that's why I asked the question about the communications like to try to support
really getting the message out in terms of this is why this is happening. This is what this is paying for. You don't you want separate schools, you want better maintenance. This is the cost of that. >> We don't really have a communications budget.
>> I know. I know. That's why I asked, you know, >> but I mean we do I know I mean just I mean you can speak a little bit. We do always do a little when we do a budget. I mean you can speak a little bit. We do annual budget like >> right a one page flyer front and back to
help explain you know what certain things are. But I know I think you're talking about something more detailed and more conversational and yeah, it's it's hard because I think we all want that, >> right? >> And I think the community wants it too,
but it's it's sort of like we're talking about trying to save money and spending money to get more money. Like it's just kind of this I know you know. So it's just kind of >> No, I know. I mean well and I also think like this is when the budget conversations happens. It's in all the many committee meetings that happen here
and in the municipalities and I and I would be wonderful if there were more people here and if there were more people engaged because it's hard I think when it comes to town meeting and you know I think through comments made at town meeting or people who have
the ideas of making motions from the floor or whatever they're trying to do they're trying to affectuate the change then that needs to be part of the conversation now. >> Oh yeah. you know, >> and I So, if I can just summarize a little bit about I mean what I'm hearing I actually think I mean I'm hearing some
we're in this range. I actually think I'm sort of closer to you although I'm sort of saying I still do think I I don't want the budget to come back exactly the way it is. I think it needs to get >> um >> and it will naturally
>> and it will and that's my expect I guess that's what I'm saying is that's my expectation is that that's normally what happens anyway is that it gets paired thoughtfully between now and the time we see it again. But I agree
with Kristen and and with what Julia said about like this this is our values. we're going to we're not going to compromise. And like you could end up having to compromise
your values for educ what you value in education either by cutting it down so much so that you can get the budget passed or by it failing. >> Both of those things are going to result and it seems wrong to not try.
Um and I just I mean I sort of wanted to highlight some of the things Julia said. I felt the same way about like the user like things like user fee increases and the late bus and things like that are things that are a a not going to solve
the bigger picture budget-wise and disproportionately hurting the kids who probably need it the most like >> right >> you know I in other words when my kids were in high school we had 100% years of fees we paid 100%.
For my family, that was doable. My I had two kids. They did three sport three season, you know, sports, three seasons. That was doable. But it was 100%. A lot of families that was >> a dealbreaker. >> Yeah. Like, so that's heartbreaking.
Like that that meant that my kids got to do something like it. And again, that's not going to solve the budget problem, but it's to your point, it's those things that get taken away that um >> but we'll still have our scholarship
program. >> I Yeah. And and I'm sure that that was there then and that was like I just use that as an example of like >> Mhm. >> the those things that get cut tend to be
most impactful to those that might need it the most that it might be the most important. Um all right, I'm I'm gonna stop talking. Um, so I think we're really like I think
Eric and Vinnie, what are you hearing? Are you still waiting for us to sort of say how much we want to see reduced between now and the time we see the tenative budget or do you have an idea of what we're >> I think we can do it in two steps. Like
we can say, "All right, we'll bring back I'm just going to hit a number a million. see what that looks like in real life because I have to let people know like, "Hey, your job's going to be mentioned next Thursday night as being reduced." Um, so
that's that's a direction we can say, "All right, we want to hit a certain number and then whatever is left is an override." I think if you don't get down to that 2 million, you're going to be in an override. >> Not you, but we will be an override in both communities.
>> Mhm. So, >> so we're in agreeance or consensus there's going to be have to be some override, right? It's just the amount >> like we can't cut $3 million. >> No. >> Well, right. >> Yeah. And if you cut 1.4
from the just say Hamilton side and made that one non override, you're still in a difficult position in Wom. Like I said, I don't know their exact number. They have their meeting Saturday morning. So, >> well, and to get to 1.4 and I mean, you can't >> I hate the word. Yeah. So,
>> it's not it's not a good word. >> It's not doable. >> And we don't know. I mean, in other words, they the towns are still in an estimation, >> correct, >> stage, too. It's possible that one or both of the towns could revise their
numbers and one, you know, we don't know like they and they don't know cuz it's I mean, it's just hard. Hamilton's been in their select board meetings talking about the possible $500,000 they could get from Gordon Conwell if all right, >> you know, >> that could happen could happen. It's
just not on the table completely >> and they can't and they can't really be making decisions based on that cuz they don't know like that's >> right. >> Um Okay. Do we have an when is our next quintuple board meeting? I know we have a schedule but we
>> the next quintuple board meeting >> week of Martin Luther King. So that >> okay. So it's a way it's not this month then it's it's okay. Okay. >> Yeah. We usually have the first one early and the second one in January just before we get to the final budget so
everybody can kind of put their cards on the table fully. >> Yep. That's what I was kind of wondering like when we have all the pieces because I think for me that's one of the things that I'm having a hard time >> kind of understanding is sort of like >> the overall goal here from sort of like
25,000 ft like is I I know that keeping taxes as low as possible and running efficiently and things are always priority but always priorities but I'm also trying to understand like what are we trying to achieve you know in terms of the
municipality ities in the district kind of working together in terms of like services and funding retirements and salaries and benefits and capital like kind of I feel as though it seems like it's a year-over-year kind of battle to balance the budget and
not necessarily a year-over-year strategy in pursuit of a goal, you know, collectively anyway. Mhm. >> And and that's sort of I think why sometimes this is hard and there's so many moving pieces here and it's ultimately accountable to the voters.
So, >> and the high the high level of residential expectation there is is is problematic. And when you have small towns and your tax base is just about all residential, that becomes problematic because as one
of my fellow superintendents said, the value of your house doesn't pay your taxes. >> Right. >> Right. Even though you're you're living in a house that might be valued a million dollars, you may only be making a hundred grand a year. Right. Right. >> So the you know, so that's that's one of the issues we're talking the state about
when they use equalized valuation of housing as part of the formula to figure out. So, so these perceived to be wealthy communities have those pieces that never get factored into the puzzle, you know, and that's where some of our senior citizens are
trapped in a house that they've had for 40 or 50 years. And I don't want to say trapped, they're just in a house they've had for 40 or 50 years, and it's probably gone up dramatically over that that time. And and you know, they're they're probably on fixed incomes, most
of them, if if they've retired and left the workforce. So th those are things that don't get accounted in any state aid figures. Uh making it more complex. I had a conversation with a pincom member today and he is digging into this
deeper than I've ever seen it. He's trying to compare like schools to say, "Okay, how can this school educate kids for 18,400 when we, you know, it cost us 21,000?" Uh which is an interesting conversation, but there's so many
differences in each community. Some communities, some school districts don't pay their insurance. It's paid by the town. Some communities have required transportation like regionals. Uh other communities could cut transportation. I was in Salem 30 years ago and I remember
they cut all afternoon buses as a budget savings thing. So we couldn't do that. So th those are the the difficult pieces of what's included, what's not included. Um so things that seem similar may often not be. um some of the comparatives are just not it's not linear. It's not
perfectly linear. >> Another again, this is more of a long-term thing. This is not this year's budget, but it might be worthwhile to look at what we would have to do to pull back that $4.8 million
in out of district tuition. Like, what would that actually require? cuz >> it cost >> like if we could eliminate that >> we don't have a budget problem anymore. >> Yeah, we couldn't do it all only because >> some of our placements are medically
fragile permanent placements like 247 >> and it costs money to like >> bring >> we might be able in theory to educate those students for less money but they're still going to be expensive to educate those
students. Will it pay for itself? >> That's the I mean >> that was the reason we pulled that was the reason we pulled languagebased program back into the district and built that up. >> The problem is you still have people with the capacity to fight that and put their kid in a program like Lamach
anyway. Even though we have the same exact we're literally using the same program, we've been trained by their people. We you know it's just people have the the willingness to fight. How much money do we want to spend in court? you know, defending whether our program
is better than another another private program. So, those those are some of the things we're tied up in. I think three cases now that are not cheap and they've continued over more in some cases more than a year. Um, just because parents believe like, okay, my kids not getting
service, I want that service. So, it's hard to get all of it down. >> Yeah. >> Could you look at different scenarios? Yeah. It would it would be against startup costs. >> You know, it's it would cost money. It'd be a bump to get a program started and running to be able to continue that
through. So you don't actually avoid cost in that initial year. You actually take this hit a little bit and then then it levels out. We looked at it for >> that's something to think about for this year. >> No, no. Right. I just But it's a good conversation piece. I think it's important when you start to think we I
hope everybody remembers maybe the new newest people don't. We went with a contracted out of district placement transportation service. one company. We did it with 11 different school districts to try and reduce the cost of transportation. When it first started up, we were like, it's not going to save
us any money. It's not going to save us any money. But now the the company that's running this now is starting to say, okay, I can pair this kid, this kid, this kid on one route now, and that saves money for these two schools or these three schools. So, we're starting to to work that through. In fact, I have
a meeting tomorrow afternoon about that. Some of the efficiencies may help us, but it's not a lot of money. It's a couple hundred,000. It's not when you're looking at $40 million, $200,000 is not impacting the budget, but it's a piece of the puzzle when you're saying, "Okay, can we save money? Can we save utility
costs by, you know, if we had that >> solar pan, >> that solar canopy in a year, two years ago? Would we be saving this dramatic sum of money?" Possibly. But that would be designed to save money over years rather than in one year. >> Yeah. >> Mhm.
>> Okay. I'm feeling like we're ready to move on. Yes, you guys. Yes. No. Yes. Do you want more? I >> Well, so let So tell me what you need to know. >> I feel like you're leaning into you as a group consensus
wise leaning into let's see some reductions with the probability of an override in at least one town. >> Like maybe >> I don't think we're looking for an override, but that's just the another bullet. I you could >> Yeah. I mean, oh, you've got override
and some reductions on there, like sort of a mixed bag of >> Yeah. >> Is your feeling though and override in just one community >> or both? >> Different numbers.
>> I feel hard. It feels I I mean while we don't know like while we don't know for sure what exact number causes an override I mean we only know
>> my guess it would be >> slightly less than what they're asking you know what I mean like so when I'm saying drop a million it maybe >> right >> 900 maybe 8 800 I'm not sure but again I know their exact numbers yet. >> I I guess I mean maybe other people feel
differently. I guess I I'm not I understand your question is like are you understanding that like if you know if you could reduce it enough to only have an override in one town. Guess I'm sort of I'm more in the like
let's pair this down as you know where we're still within like this is what you believe we actually need get it as tight and then see where that lands us and it seems like >> yeah that might still land us in two
overrides it might >> we can pair it down bring it back we still have that one we still have that one meeting to have a tentative budget ready for that first meeting in October. What's it the fourth? January. Uh >> it's the eth because the first is a
Thursday. >> Yeah. Okay. So January 8th we'd be looking at a tenative budget that those that have been here know that floats down a tiny bit between tenative and final. But the biggest reductions we'll make are in the next two meetings. Actually the next
one meeting. Yeah, it's one meeting. But I mean I Yeah. Okay. other people. >> I'm just I mean, are you are you looking for a number to cut to cut or a percent or or just
we're just going to do sort of a hypothetical if we >> So, my goal is not to cause unnecessary alarm with my staff, >> right? Yeah. That's why Yeah. Because if I if you if you said, "All right, show
us what 2 million looks like." >> There's a lot of people that are very nervous. >> Yeah. >> About even though you could say to them, "This is just a modeling scenario." I would still be nervous. I mean, my first seven years, I was being slipped. >> Um just cuz that's the way the budgets
were run back then. But um >> but 2 million is basically I mean in other words to to start thinking about not having an override in one town that's where right I mean
>> somewhere around there some >> right and I I guess that's what I'm saying is that like I just think that's too much. I would I I I understand that that might mean that there's too I mean we don't know there's so many but I I
understand what you're saying but I I don't know just seems like too it's it seems like we're not there yet to say we would only want there to be an
override in one community. It seems as though we're still thinking about what it looks like if there's an override in two communities of some amount with some amount of adjustment in the expense side.
>> And we're still guessing on on those numbers. So that's conversation even more, >> right? And I mean, in other words, that could happen like Hamilton could have >> revenue and they could say we're good. Y >> you know and and we don't know like
that's and that's not really our >> we can't decide that. >> We can't decide that exactly. >> Yeah. I mean and history has shown that when you go to town meeting the override is specific to the school district. >> Right. Right. >> Not the towns. I mean the towns will say
we've balanced our budget. We've come in school district needs an override. >> So that's the focus shifts completely to the school district. >> Right. And that's one of the I mean that's the difference between being in like if you were in a regional versus a m municipality. If you were just in you
know then it would just be the budget needs an override in >> they just give you a number and when you're in let's use Beverly as an example chapter 70 goes through the city. The city will say to the schools all right you're going to get 4% figure it out. Um whereas it's the other way
around here where we can say this is what we we need >> and >> um I wish I had an amazing idea. I wish I had a big idea. >> Um >> I mean you're you're looking at >> I I don't
>> No, go ahead. So the 1.99 million that >> I showed you in that 5% slide. >> I guess I'm I maybe I'm reading I don't think anyone here is saying we want to see that. >> No, I don't think that puts me in a better place. >> I I don't think that that's what people
are saying. That's >> I like I guess what I heard is I heard some people saying like a million feels like too much, but we want to see something cut. And I heard maybe some people saying, "I'd like to see a million." What a million,
>> okay, >> looks like, but I'm not hearing anybody say, >> "I want to see what 5% looks like." No, >> absolutely not. >> I mean, we kind of have an idea, I think. >> Right. >> You know, right. >> Yeah. There's >> I know they're high level numbers, but
>> Yeah. I just don't want >> and and then people in other words like that's what I was trying to say about this top box which you've got it sort of as a million but I'm saying it's kind of up to a million >> right >> and like it it doesn't I get it it
doesn't like it might be that both towns then say well if you that's really what you're asking for we have to be in an override and like I >> All right so we'll bring back a budget about a million less than what we're looking at.
>> But see, I don't I don't want that. But if everyone wants that, >> I don't either. I'm sort of feeling like, >> but I think we're all feeling individually differently. Yeah. So, it's hard to give you direction. >> Some range of don't cut it at all. >> If everyone else feels that way, honestly, I'm obviously I will support
the committee, but I I personally don't want that. But >> do you want to see nothing? >> I don't know. >> Right. Cuz I'm saying I think there's definitely something that could be paired up. Kristen said, >> "Oh, yeah." Oh, yeah. I mean, we we go through this exercise every year. We come in with a number of here's
everything we need. Here's everything we want. We know we don't get it. We know there's still some revenue offsets. We So, there are some things that just change over the next like once we find out all the retirees that gives puts us a little more money back in the bank for us. So, but we don't they don't have to
notify us till December 1. So, we get to that point, let last this week, nail that number down, and here's here's what it's at. You know, here's our possible savings. So, >> the thing is that it I think for the public and for all of us, it would be helpful to look at that 1 million, but I
also agree with you. I don't want to terrify people >> ever, but right before the holidays. >> Agree. >> But I don't But then I don't really have a solution. So, I just I just know what I don't want. I can't tell you what I do want once. >> Well, I mean, I think the problem is
we're trying to fix a topline problem on the expense side. Just never works, >> you know what I mean? It just you can't >> But it's where we are. >> Exactly. You know, >> and our revenues have been increasing at a fairly reasonable clip,
approximately 5%. It's just all the shifting around END out and END in that starts to make it messy. Thank you for your work on this all your work on this. >> This is really helpful actually. We'll >> make some we'll make some find this this hand >> realistic trims that we would through
the process. We'll look for other efficiencies. There are some efficiencies that we know that we can make that we've planned for um because some of our programs are um maturing kind of growing from 3 4 years ago and we started them we needed more staff so
we're starting so so we can make some efficiencies but um I just want to make sure that people are clear whatever I put out there I'm going to notify people ahead of time I I just don't think it's fair to say hey I saw your name on the school committee last
last night. It wouldn't be names. It would just be pretty easy to We're small. It's easy to figure out >> what's what. So, that makes sense. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate the conversation.
>> Okay. Um that was a difficult conversation. Um uh moving on to committee reports. Uh capital finance. >> Um we have a meeting next week. >> Next week. Yeah. >> Okay. Is it at noon or 11?
>> The 8th. Monday. >> Is it 8? >> Oh, no. Wait. What time? >> Oh, it's on the 8th. Yeah. Yeah. >> Know what time? >> I wrote down 11, but then the calendar invite said noon. >> I have no. >> Okay, good. That's fine. >> 12:00. >> 12:00. Yep.
>> Um, policy. >> Uh, we actually did not meet on the first because we had nothing to talk about. Um, so I will >> That's a good problem to have. >> It's a good problem to have. So we uh will meet in January. I need to send out an email about when, but it sounds like
Monday's fine work and >> for you too, Jen. Even earlier in the day we could do if that works for you too. So >> yeah, >> check your inbox. Um, negotiations. We are tenatively
meeting on the 11th. Um and we're going to begin um our um negotiations with the ESP um union on the 11th. Um >> that won't take effect though until
fiscal year >> 27 27 this budget >> 2728. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The budget we're working on. >> Right. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Right. They're not on the same cycle as >> as the teachers. Yes. um
um sec to the secretary report. >> So I've emailed the chairs. I'm hoping for our last meeting of the year to prepare like a full like this is where we are. >> Um something like I could probably put
an exhibit or I could hand it to you. >> I have a technical question. >> Yeah, I was going to ask your question. Go ahead. Well, no, no, you can ask it because I >> I'm just wondering if there it's if it's possible to access Google drives of past committee members thinking that these
minutes might just be living in other people's >> now defunct. >> I have no idea. >> Google accounts. >> Um cuz I think we've kind of exhausted the search through like everyone's >> right. I think we're looking at like >> like 2019
>> things that are from long ago. Um, I don't know the answer to that question. >> I will find out tomorrow. >> Have no idea. >> Not 100% sure, but I believe we could probably pull that off. >> All right. If we can talk to school committee members maybe who aren't here that we know might have the minutes.
>> Yeah. And they also just might not exist. Like that's so which is why is I I think moving forward it's just such a good policy that immediately after the meeting to provide Janelle with draft minutes because at the very least then
they exist and she has them and a future committee could look at the draft minutes and vote to approve them and then they would have them. Um >> so >> I know for me a sticking point with minutes is formatting them into the with like the header and all that. >> Janelle sent me a nice link. Janelle has
a link and Janelle is also willing to put minutes in that format. So if that's something that is barring you from sharing your minutes as Janelle, don't worry, she will help you out. >> She will fix it. >> Thanks Janelle. >> Um yes. Um okay. Anybody have anything
else on minutes? >> No. >> Um thank you Julia for that. Um Amy, do you have anything on in our inboxes? >> Inboxes have been very quiet. very quiet. All right. Well, maybe we'll
get budget feedback now. Um, which would be good. Um, so I have on the chair's report, um, I wanted to make sure this is really mostly for members of the public to
remind you all that, um, Hamilton is holding a special town meeting on December 9th. So I just wanted to put that out there so that people know and remember to attend to
participate in the process. Um and uh well I guess I should say one of the the one of the major topics is around uh the zoning at Gordon Conwell. So >> it's a important meeting.
Um, and then you had a couple things, Amy, on the um doodle poll. >> Oh, yes. Uh, so we've talked before about holding a workshop to kind of debrief about the elementary school project. I sent out a poll to see who is
available when. Um, we had zero dates with total consensus, but we had four where six people were willing or able to meet >> and really three cuz one of them was like a if we have to. >> So, um
>> I think that was me and I would I said if I have to. So, if I have to. >> Okay. Uh, is it helpful if I report the dates and the members or >> um should I just >> I'm just meaning separate from the
workshop that we usually do. >> Uh, in the summer? >> You mean in the summer? >> Yeah. >> Okay, that's my question. >> Yes. Yeah. No, this is Yeah. Um, yeah. Um, I don't I mean I guess datewise it if I
mean it's up to the committee. Do you want to sort of try to hash it out now or do you want Amy to just send an email that says these are the dates? >> I mean, >> I don't know who are the like somebody's going to miss it is the deal. >> Yeah, somebody's going to miss one. The other thing to consider is if we're
talking about the 7th of >> to be one of 7th of January rather to be one of the community conversations. >> Mhm. you know that if you know we could have a really long school committee day that day or we
could eliminate that day for that reason. >> Oh is that one of the days one of the days worked for people? >> Yes. >> Um Tuesday the 6th everybody except Megan is available all day. Um
and then Thursday the 8th we have a school committee meeting. So, I put an option for meeting an hour before our meeting. So, if we feel like an hour is enough time, >> we could do that minus one person. Um, and then Monday the 12th,
uh, sorry, I forgot the time. I think that was 4 to 6 in the afternoon, everyone indicated they were available except for one person. So, but not I don't know if it's a matter of just choosing one and rolling with it, but I do feel like that January 7th
because we already have an event happening, we should probably eliminate that day. >> Yeah, maybe that eliminate that day. And then maybe um >> I'm sorry, January the 12th is a Monday. I put 10:30 to 12:30. >> Okay. And you had six again. That was
one that had six. >> That had six. Yeah. >> Six people. Okay. Um, all right. Watch. There's like 5,000 flash ads going on on your doodle poll. >> January 12th, 10:30 to 12:30.
>> All right. Well, I don't have an answer cuz it would be really nice to have everyone there, but that's also really difficult. We're around the school committee. We didn't get a meeting. We didn't get everyone there. >> We did. So, that is a >> six people on the ETH from 6:00 to 7:00. >> Okay. >> That's this one. >> Okay.
Oh, >> so I just for that one I don't know if an hour is enough time, but >> um >> so I don't know if we want to vote or just choose cuz people did choose basically.
>> I I don't know. I don't know if an hour is enough. >> What do you want to do? >> Me? >> Yeah. >> I don't feel like an hour is enough time. >> Okay. Um, so I would kind of move towards the 12th, but
>> that's a Monday. >> Okay. And that is Megan can't come. Is that correct? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Not during the workday. >> Yes. Yep. That's okay. >> Yeah, that's um All right. Did I remember because I did fill it out, but I don't remember
what any of the dates were. Did >> I mean >> I asked I mean we can I can make more dates. like we can definitely vote on more, but I mean we've got some consensus. So, Tuesday the 6th, >> Wednesday the 7th, Thursday the 8th, uh the 10th, which is a Saturday.
>> The seventh might be one of Eric's community. >> Yes, that's what she was saying. That that maybe doesn't really work. >> Squash that. >> Um and I'm sorry. Did you say there was a Saturday in there? >> I put the Saturday the 10th two times. >> Not super popular. >> Not super popular.
>> Yep. No. Okay. Um, >> that is my birthday. I will not be. >> We might have cupcakes. >> We could get you. >> As much as I enjoy spending time with you all. >> Um, >> my birthday, too.
>> Is your birthday, too? >> No, it's not. Um, okay. Uh, I don't know what to do about that. I really I'm sorry. I'm >> okay. I mean,
>> what was was there one? Is it me that there was one that if I was willing to do it, we'd have all seven? >> No, there's none that have all seven. >> Even with me saying >> you saying no. >> Well, like one of them I >> saying you said yellow. That was No, even with that, we still have members
that can't. >> Okay. Um, >> I feel like that January the 8th, the hour before a meeting is probably easiest for everybody because it's kind of >> Yeah, I guess I sort of feel like that's right before school committee meeting. I know somebody said they can't come, but it probably just means they're going to
be late, right? Like, you know, like >> Yeah, >> I feel like maybe that's as close as we can get to. >> And I know maybe an hour is not enough, but at least it's a start. Everybody, I think we can get I don't know who it is. Okay, he's not here. So,
>> yep. Is that also like would it be worthwhile to do the before we do that meeting prior to the meeting where we get the report from the community feedback.
>> So, we're talking about everything all at once. I was thinking that too, but I feel like the purpose of this workshop is to look back. >> Yeah. >> And the purpose of the conversations is to look forward. So I feel like it is kind of two separate. >> Yeah. >> But um >> um
>> Well, I guess I'm cuz I'm actually starting to get a little punchy. Yes. Um let's um I usually got some pretty good stamina till 10, but I'm >> um shall we? Well, I guess I'm looking at trying to do it on the 8th. I don't
think that's a lot a long enough time, but I like the idea that it's right before a committee meeting, so that even though I know we've got one person who says they can't come, but we can reach out and see if that can work because it is a meeting anyway, school committee meeting anyway. >> Um,
I don't know what other people think about that. >> January 8, >> I know it's only an hour, >> but at least we could start the conversation. >> We could start the conversation. No, >> at all. >> Okay. >> Yeah, let's do that. >> All right. And then can you reach out to
everyone and just say that and then >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> We'll just meet here. >> Yeah. I mean, we could meet in a room here, right? Yeah. I don't want to meet here. >> That's not one I said I couldn't make, was it? >> You said you could make that one.
>> Okay. >> Does that still work? >> Yeah, that still works. >> Okay. Thank you for all of that. >> Yeah. Uh, and now what else? >> Holiday boutique. >> Oh yeah, Emmy mentioned it, but yeah. >> Uh, Saturday is the holiday boutique at the Winthrop School from 9 to 3. Lots of
local vendors. >> Um, >> it's super fun. >> It's super fun. Sand is coming this year. We couldn't make it last year. We're disappointed. >> Um, I'll be there as a silent auction. So, come check it out.
>> Excellent. And if you would like to volunteer, they're still looking for volunteers to help staff it so that you can email me and I can hook you up with the list. >> Excellent.
Um, all right. Uh, topics for future meetings. >> Can I just give one point of clarification? >> Yep. >> And you did a little more digging back to the meeting. We talked about overrides. The last override in Wenham was in 2021 of $700,000.
>> During co >> 2021 >> $723,000 >> and that that was the one I would have been >> that was the other chapter 70 money. >> Yeah. Yeah, I know. I remember 23,000. >> So >> that would have been the 2021
>> I don't remember that one budget or the 2020 birthday >> before I was a member I think. >> Oh yes. So that was before I was on the committee. I was like, I would remember that. But that was that was when I was elected in that craziness in the midst of that. >> Right. So the other ones go back to
2010. >> Wasn't that the END money we're carrying? >> Yes. That's the 770 that Yes. >> Yeah. >> That's where it originated. >> Thank you for that for that update. >> Sorry. >> No, I that's good to know. I did not
know that. Um uh All right. Um where was I? topics for future meetings. Did you have some budget? >> Nothing. >> Um, so I this during this meeting I have figured out a sit a problem that we need
to think about which is that the April town elections are now on April 16th >> and we have a school committee meeting that day.
I'm going to check with the town clerks, but I think in the past that was sometimes problematic and I think originally that wasn't when their election was. So, I'm going to put that on a town on a topic for future meeting.
Right. Um, >> isn't that Sorry. Isn't that al also April vacation? >> No, the 20th. >> Oh, that's the following week. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, it's not Yeah, it's not >> filed in Spain. So, >> yeah. No, no, no. It's Nope, it's not. Yep. Not a thoughtful vacation, but um
I I I'm just I'll just check with the town clerks cuz I know that at one point we had >> I think that happened a couple years ago. >> It happened a couple of years ago and the town clerks had let us know that we shouldn't do that. Um
and we tried not to this time and um so I just I will check in and then I'll bring it back. Um, anybody else have any other topics for future meetings? >> Okay. Motion to adjourn. >> Yeah. >> I move that we adjourn the school
committee meeting at 9:27 p.m. >> Second. >> Um, >> I need your signature before the >> All those in favor? >> That is six in favor and the meeting is adjourned at 97.