##VIDEO ID:EhLkwpcloEU## for e e e e e e e e okay can everyone hear me right uh good evening um this time I would like to call to order the meeting of the Hamilton wam Regional school committee at 6:33 um and I'm going to ask that each um board go around and um call your meetings to order if you have a quorum presid um let's go this way you right I'll start at 6:33 p.m. I'll call to order a meeting for the Hilton select Board second are you are you all are you all ready for the uh not yet got a good yep you guys are good all right not yet Hamilton fincom doesn't have a quorum yet we will all right uh wenom income in we are yep I'd like to call to order the Venom select board we'll call to order the uh wam Finance advisory committee thanks okay great um I just uh want to this room is a little bit challenging Acoustics wise and um we do have to share microphon so I did want to just ask that when you are speaking if you could make sure to to share the mic so that everyone can hear you and please just yell if you can't hear someone and I will do the same um so that we can make sure everyone is heard um okay uh so first up um we going to just go in order of the agenda first up um I'm going to turn it to the Hamilton uh budget highlights all right thank you good evening uh Joe doov Hamilton time manager Wendy marwitz Finance director is with me uh we're going to go through a real quick presentation of where our current um budget uh is looking for FY 26 second second screen please um total expenditures in this budget currently are at 42,900 263 which represents an increase from the current fiscal year of about $437,000 ton expenses are at 6,692 th000 a slight decrease that decrease is largely due to a decrease or almost exclusively due to a decrease in the amount of money we're spending in our capital budget for the year and education increase expenses rather are uh to Hamilton are 26,28 one64 or an increase of 3.83% over the current year all operating expenses are covered by the raised tax levy onetime expenses including Capital lease purchase Capital Improvements and a portion of our unfunded liabilities are covered through free cash capital improvements are $78,400 select board in town and the finance advisory committee uh usually in September and October um and one of the goals that is a recurring goal every year and is a goal of mine as the town manager is to do everything we can to avoid a town override so uh the budget is put together from that Viewpoint starting with maintaining services or improving where we can without going into an override position we are able to do that this year uh as always I can't I don't have a CIS ball I can't predict to far into the future I we can project a balanced budget this year without an override Wendy good evening um Revenue sources the about 89% of the revenue comes from the tax levy which is $36.6 million um state aid of what we know right now which is only estimated is $1.1 million which is uh 3% of the budget local receipts we're holding it steady from fy2 the shift in the buckets have changed because of some agreements but uh we're going to keep it at $2.8 million that's what we feel is um reasonable 7% of the budget and then um 1.77 million is coming from free cash to handle um those uh one-time purchases and capital expenditures and unfunded liability um to supplement part of it as Joe mentioned so a total revenue budget of $ 42.9 million which is an increase of 437,000 or 1% from fy2 so then when you go to the expenditure summary okay hold on I can't see next screen I'm sorry one next one sorry thank you very much so we are showing a balanced budget as Joe mentioned Capital purchases are still um in discussions it may change slightly but nothing major so for discussion purposes the actual um operating budget did increase 1.92% because if you take out the capital it's about 1.92% of the actual operating budget so just showing you the buckets here um education is 62% of of the uh operating expenses of$ 26.2 million General government is 2.7 million or 7% Public Safety at 4.3 million or 10% uh the Department of Public Works 2.5 million 6% Health and Human Resources uh Human Services excuse me 1% at nearly 400,000 culture and recreation at 1.2 million 3% of the budget and the unclassified as you can see I broke it out so everybody can uh understand what's under that because it's a it's a big chunk of money $4.7 million or 11% the biggest spending in there is the pension which is$ 1.7 million obligation and the group in health insurance which is $1.1 million um and then there's OPB and state assessments Property and Casualty Insurance uh so all of that combined under the unclassified equals $4.7 million and then Capital currently 780,000 which most likely will change slightly and the last page just gives you a snapshot of our free cash uh free cash was certified on 918 at 4.5 million in um special town meeting in September 500,000 was um approved for the town hall building project uh 5% Reserve which is our um policy of $2 million leaves us with $1.9 million left in free cash available and then you can see 780s going to Capital 37,000 going to one-time retirement payout 111,000 for fire department lease purchases 125,000 for OPB 550,000 it it's just a portion of of the $1.7 million for pension 15,000 for a general code onetime software 235,000 to replenish the capital stabilization from the fir Tru and then we have some anticipated prior year bills which leaves us with only $130,000 that's it thank you thank you anybody on any boards or committee have any questions for Hamilton uh we do not have public comment on the agenda I will um certainly leave it to the Committees if you have a specific question about a budget item yeah no uh really which um do you know which agenda um okay uh if that's the case then I certainly want to honor that um um do you you don't know which committee Dana I think I put public comment on the fincom agenda for Hamilton okay okay absolutely totally fair y um I ask you um to state your name um and Please spell your name so that we your last name so that we get it correct for the record um and I'd ask you to limit your comments to three minutes please yep um Deb saford sa FF o Rd uh Hamilton 46 Maple Street um thanks for allowing public comment uh I want to just start by thanking the select board in Hamilton for actually engaging with the community on all these matters I think it's been really great to have the citizens come and be able to hear from representatives and I just want to publicly in front of everyone just ackn acknowledge that the Hamilton boards have been really good about engaging with the community so thank you for that um contrary to that it's always been disconcerting to me that the school committee allows us to speak but literally does nothing about anything that's being brought up and so I just wanted to ask uh with all the Committees here just an appeal that fincom be the advocate for all the citizens in the communities that you represent not advocates for projects even if you're on those committees but to really think fiscally responsibly about how to represent the citizens um how to be you know really make the best decisions not just to cover up for a project that they want to do um and give them a leg up um and to the school committee I would just say that I was grateful the last meeting that two members uh raised questions about future overrides and I was at the last quintuple meeting and there was a wonderful analysis that Dana did showing Zara did showing you know the increases and it was recommended at that point oh yeah I don't really recommend using um one-time funds for operating expenses and yet that's what we're doing and so I think it would be really important to understand you know why that decision was made and I think it's because what has been stated publicly is that we don't want to have an override at the same time as a debt exclusion for the new school which is the project today so the reality is if we didn't have a school we probably would be having an override I think and so we're deferring it and I just think that the public needs to understand that that in taking excess and deficiency and in taking you know things that are in Surplus right now and applying it to operating expenses that's an unsustainable solution long term and it's there's there's a the m and I think that even Trent or David or someone was saying that to Lenny any sorry um that the odds of having an override in the future are very high and I just think it's going to be an even bigger override because if you remember the picture it was like from here to here to here so if we cover this up then we've got this huge thing that's down the road and so when people go to the polls and they vote for the debt override thinking that we're all fiscally responsible and we've got everything in order I think the truth of the matter is that we're covering up things with s surplus funds this time and there's like a tsunami that's coming it's like an earthquake but then the tsunami comes after a delay and you know I'm not an expert in and and I just spoke to Vinnie as we were walking in I was like you know I'd love to look at it but I just think that philosophically and conceptually I think I'm right on that and I just would like to Advocate that that there'd be really um an understanding for the public of what's coming instead of just looking at this year so thank you very much thank you um so we sort of because I hadn't realized that that had been posted we sort of a little bit out of order so we've only heard from Hamilton I'm certainly fine to take it out of order if anyone else has a public comment um we can do that now um unless people would prefer to speak after whichever town you have a specific comment I'm going to leave that up to you if there's people that want to make public comment now please approach the podium okay thank you um next up uh wam all right so uh for whenham what we you know chose to do is just make some updates to uh our presentation from uh back in November uh obviously we're a lot closer to the end of budget season here um with about four to six weeks to go we are now uh under an override uh much like Joe mentioned for Hamilton uh at the minimum that's the goal sort of at the outset of most years is to avoid that uh we are now in the the part of the budget season where we're looking to you know further Fromm the budget uh and get us more under the levy limit uh in in wam uh for us the the big Focus there is going to be starting to look at comparable communities and you know compare and contrast the services we provide at the Town level uh with similar sized or similar uh socioeconomic communities um for us you know a couple big things that are hanging over our our budget this year is that we are in negotiations with three out of our four unions um we haven't built in anything um in the direct departmental budgets for that but we have built in a reserve uh for settling those contracts uh for FY 26 um and then we just wanted to not note that you know this budget only covers the operating budget uh in wenam we tend to fund Capital with free cash uh and we believe that will be the case this year that we have sign you know sufficient free cash to cover any Capital needs um flipping to the next page just a couple of the the major assumptions here uh after the latest round of information from from Vinnie uh you know it looks like our net increase uh on the Hamilton winham side is going to be about $712,000 uh with the increase to operating and a slight reduction in the uh The Debt Service uh so that's about a 5.67% increase for the year um we're looking at right now an estimate of a 3% increase for Essex Tech uh based on my conversations today I think that's probably going to be light uh we know we've got an extra two students uh as of uh October 1st so uh you know that will probably go up a little bit but um you know all things considered it's you know maybe that's another four or5 thousand so not material to the overall budget uh we had a few items uh our street lighting our trash collection uh we just needed to make some adjustments to rightsize our budget that was underfunded in Prior years that's an addition of about 21,000 uh the library budget overall is going up about 177,000 which is driven by just contractual obligations uh with the Union that has settled um a small increase of about 7,000 to our Recreation share of the recreation budget uh and probably like most people are on the table are big drivers are pension health insurance and and sort of general liability insurance uh that's about $242,000 uh in increases so those items there make up about 297,000 of what will about a $440,000 increase overall which includes a a reserve for these contracts all of our other budgets are Level funded uh and we're looking to trim those uh down further as as we work towards the the end of the budget season here but uh with four to six weeks to go we feel like we're in pretty good shape here uh the final page um you know just gives a very high level um overview of of the wam budget um you know on the town side as I mentioned we're going up about 440,000 which represents a net increase of about 3.82% um the Hamilton whenham school budget up to 712 you know about a 5.67% and then the small increase for uh Essex Tech um you comparing this to when we met uh you know just a few weeks back in in November um you know we've come down between cuts at the Hamilton whenham School level and the the town level uh you know the town budgets come down about 70,000 the school budgets come down about 537,500 so we're down over 600,000 since November uh and that's what has allowed us to push below uh the levy limit for uh the FY 26 budget um if we look at you know what makes up the revenue streams that offsets this you know this spending uh you know you're looking at local receipts and state aid of about 3.5 million uh you know that's an increase of about 158,000 159,000 uh and then we've got some significant increases to our Levy limit uh we were um under the levy limit last year we had some excess capacity which freezed us up uh for a little bit more growth this year so you can see a you know growth of about 745,000 there uh but for New Growth we've actually reduced uh what we think it will be for FY 26 uh we we've captured a lot of building uh and and new growth over the last few years and we expect that to slow down uh and then um you know our debt exclusions are dropping uh but you know at the same time that means we're not spending in that money so it's sort of a wash um but overall I think feeling pretty pretty good about where we're at and looking forward to trim this further over the next you know few weeks thank you we have any uh board members that have any questions for for uh one okay thank you I do have one question absolutely can you make sure you speak into the mic sorry for for the two incomes has there been any effort to model what the potential per household or per dollar of current tax the likely um additional tax there will be as if if indeed the town votes to move forward on the new uh the new cut and if there isn't can we make sure that we have have such a model and and such projections even though I know they're not absolutely precise the provider change so that taxpayers and voters know exactly what what the impact will be on them uh personally yeah we we are setting up that model waiting on some final numbers from is the architect or OPM in the state and once those are finalized and we're comfortable with them we'll move forward with uh releas in that model so that residents can understand the tax impact or potential tax impact do do you anticipate that will be in time for the April vote time for the what that will be in time for the April vot okay great oh yeah we're talking probably a couple weeks oh terrific thank you yep just just so people are aware we're actually just waiting on the update in January the msba updates the reimbursement percentage rate so we're just waiting for that update it's supposed to come out by Friday once we have that that nails down um the numbers if you will so we'll be able to put put out some um numbers to the towns towns can work on uh what they need and then we'll we'll set up um tax calculators on the website so that people can can dig into it a little more deeply sure looks like maybe both fincom had something to say yeah I just had a question I don't know uh if you could confirm this I don't think that the uh that the new school project will have an impact on the operating budget of 2026 right so this isn't a 2026 no expense that we have have to consider as part of this budget rightor I don't know if you could hear me but basically I was just saying I think that the uh The Debt Service or whatever we're talking about expenses related to the the new elementary school project are not going to hit the the citizens in 2026 right so that's a 2027 or later Debt Service or operating expense is that correct probably 28 or 29 okay right yeah not you're right it's not in the 26 it's not going to impact the 2026 budgets David was your question are we projecting the tax impact for the new school I I couldn't quite hear you yes yes sorry sorry if it wasn't clear yes so I've mentioned this before but um in Hamilton we have published the tax impact of $150 million school for the last two years it's out on the fincom website in Hamilton and um those projections um remain accurate compared to the most recent project that's going to the town um for a vote so we've we've published not only that school but all the school capital and all the town Capital translated it into a projected tax impact for a median home in Hamilton so really the obligation that we have and the fincom I believe is to give people the ability to look forward here are projects that are lined up and here's what a likely cost should be I think I feel that's probably my primary obligation on the fincom is to give the taxpayers information that they might not otherwise have all right and additionally this school project was voted by the taxpayers in October of 22 the process that was followed as well as potential costs so as far back as October 22 we put out projections in the last two years in Hamilton we have projected the tax impact so just to kind of round out that conversation and I do believe before we go into the next town meeting we'll do it yet again and also to the earlier point we're also taking a look at 2027 I think at the last select board meeting Deb you brought that point up and I committed to you that we will look at the operating budget in partnership with the school committee we talked about it and we agreed that we would do that sitting here right now um there may be an override next year but I don't think it's going to be substantial all right I've already looked at it and we've got people looking at the budget and believe me and believe me there's no cover up going on all right the transparency that we've had in the last two or three years with the school department on the budget both towns and engaging the taxpayers is two or three x what it's been prior so iate understand there's a lot of passion around this but the taxpayers understand the tax impact that could come all right so I just wanted to clarify a couple of points and I don't like being accused of covering anything up all right and no one here is covering anything up okay well I I heard cover up can I just you had a chance to speak and I just wanted to clarify it that's all yep can I comment back on that appreciate all that I just a to me a factual or you just said the citizens all understand the tax implications I don't doubt that we're way more transparent and the information is way more available but I highly doubt the citizens understand it that's on them you can't make them understand it but just you claim that they understand it I don't know that they do are you speaking for the town of winham or the town of Hamilton citizens in the world but probably applies to winham and Hamilton okay thank you for that answer that I'm I'm sorry David go ahead I was just thanking him for that comprehensive answer that's great um okay anybody else have questions before we move on to the school okay um all right vny are up yep it's just going to take him a second to get that up on the screen so that I came this badly right to the right well Vinnie's getting ready the Hamilton fincom does have a quorum myself John prage Chris Wilston is here so so we do have a we do have an official quum all right all right so for that Hamilton fincom called to order at s called to order perfect thank you John John Mr McGrath what's oh sorry so I I really appreciate you um pointing out this um estimate on the the website um and I know we're just waiting for Vinnie to get up so I just wanted to um you know point out some things on it is that it is definitely posted there I don't know when this has been circulated like to the public such that individuals would be able to see it um I know they can always go on to the website and find it um there there is a a a huge range for a single home value on there right for a $798,000 home it's 678 to 1569 for that one project which is which is quite big right right and and the reason for that is at that point in time there were multiple sized options in the mix there was a $46 million option for a Rena of Cutler yeah and $151 million option for a new school all right what you'll see in April of 25 is $143 million option with one number and that number is $1,569 for a home valued at $798 right and so I I think that that's excellent that we have that information okay um I I do think that the problem with using a median is that a median is used when there's a non-normal distribution right and so uh people aren't going to be able to look and and estimate based upon any you know normal distribution calculator so I think it would be really helpful if individuals were able to look and see the assessed value of their home specifically and what that estimate is for them and that would just be additional feedback and then I think that um you know circulating this is is you know tremendously helpful um because on the school committee I've been look waiting for for you know solid numbers and this is this is the first solid number that I've I've seen I do think that we actually published it in April of 2023 no I I I hear you um what's missing is that at the beginning of this year an entire everything below the top estimate disappeared from from the range right sure so if I if I publish a range and I estimate that I'm going to hit the middle of that which would be the reasonable estimate if you see a range right but what actually happened is we hit the top of it and I'm not criticizing that at all I'm just saying that that becomes a point of confusion I think for sure um for the public but I I really appreciate this work being done and have it I was able to pull it up here in 30 seconds and see exactly what what it looks like for that specific value of home yeah I I think just going from memory that in the notes on the right hand side it does mention there are multiple options yeah it says that the range represents a total of 14 potential scenarios correct okay so I think it was well footnoted and I invited people to come to the fincom if they had any interest whatsoever but we'd be more than happy to publish um the sizes of the homes and the impact more more than happy to do that excellent okay right Vinnie looks like we're ready for you uh thanks everyone for joining us tonight we're here to review the superintendent's updated tenative FY 26 budget recommendation uh just like to thank Eric the school committee and the entire leadership team for their help during the budget process it's about a four-month process that we start uh the end of October and although the final budget is uh voted on by the school committee in the first week in February uh it doesn't entirely end there there's a lot of groundwork after that leading up to town meeting uh so just thank them for their work so far and everything they're going to do leading up to town meeting Vin I'm sorry can I I'm just gonna can can everyone hear him do we need to um is there any way to turn the podium mic up a little bit thank youer oh yeah can you hear me testing no good evening you it pretty good okay just stay close to it don't worry thank you okay so as for those of you were here on November 20th when we had our first quintuple board meeting uh the school district presented an FY 26 budget that came in at just under $50 million uh this represent an increase year-over-year of 3.3 million or roughly 7.12% that is our gross uh operating and Debt Service uh what that ultimately translated into for the net Town assessments uh was an increase to Hamilton of just over 2 million or 8 and a qu% uh and an increase to wenom of 1.3 million or roughly 10% uh but since November 20th uh We've taken uh many deeper dives into the budget process looking at both our revenues uh and our expenditures uh in terms of our revenues since November 20th uh that original preliminary budget we presented our offsets in revenues again excluding any assessments uh came in at around 9.4 million tonight our updated tenative budget is 9.6 million an increase of approximately $200,000 uh that comes from three main areas our special ed special education tuition in our transportation reimbursement and our premiums on our debt uh so for our special education tuition Inn this really is a benefit to both communities this is a student that doesn't reside in Hamilton or Wenham uh they reside in a different Community whether it's uh PE Gloucester or IP switch uh it's beneficial to both of us because usually a public school district would charge a lower tuition than a private out of school district district and at the same time the receiving District Hamilton wenam uh receives the additional Revenue Source without incurring any additional expenses uh to place this student in our building we did not have to hire any new staff there was no new teachers or no new esps uh it really was uh just a pure $40,000 uh increase to our offsets in terms of our transportation reimbursement the school district files an end-year Report with the state uh this year I will admit we were a little late on our filing we did not file it till the end of uh end of November early December uh it goes through a verification process once that's complete I take those updated numbers and project out our transportation reimbursement uh what our ND year report translated into was an increase of $86,000 when you compare our preliminary budget to our to tonight's updated tenative in December the district issued a short-term note for the construction of the turf field and a few various other older projects across the district uh the preliminary budget I estimated premium that would we would receive on the debt issuance when December finally came and we issued the debt it did come in $68,000 more than what I anticipated uh so again comparing our preliminary budget to the updated tentative it is an increase of just under $200,000 or 2.05% for for our revenues uh so tonight overall when you look at our revenues including our operating in debt and again excluding any assessments for FY 26 uh we have offsets and revenues totaling 9.6 million which represents an increase of 216,000 or 2.3% uh in terms of our expenses uh from November 20th uh till today A lot has changed again the preliminary budget was set at just under 50 $50 million uh tonight it is coming in at 48.5 that is a reduction of approximately 1.4 million um some things that we looked at as always is salary reductions we we took a deeper dive and reviewed our entire staff list uh try to make reductions and uh lower uh bring people in at lower salaries ultimately combined this came in with a reduction of $200,000 to our gross operating budget uh about two weeks ago I met with NFP our insurance brokers uh after discussions with them in our run rate within our health insurance program I was confident that we could lower the estimated increase for our health insurance premiums that ultimately resulted in a decrease of 105,000 uh we also have a reduction of 110,000 for various reductions in cuts across the district this might be a$1 th000 reduction to One account or a 5,000 reduction uh $5,000 reduction to supplies and materials contracted Services uh we really just comb through the entire budget to try to find uh savings and reductions anywhere we could uh in addition two weeks ago I did receive an updated out of District tuition's projection from our director of student services that updated projection for FY 26 had one less student that we anticipate going out of District next year that ultimately results in a reduction of $80,000 uh again an attempt to find savings and reductions anywhere we could we lowered our teacher professional development pool uh historically and within the preliminary budget we budget $250 per FTE per teacher for our updated tenative budget we did lower that amount to 150 per FTE that ultimately resulted in a reduction of $118,000 uh and last on this sheet in addition to our a reduction in AO District tuitions we also had a reduction to our AO District transportation of approximately 14,000 so combined with our AO district tuitions and our AO District transportations comparing our preliminary to tonight's updated is a reduction of 94,000 uh but without a doubt the largest change to our expenses uh to avoid an override had to do with a recommendation that came out of our Capital Finance commit committee and was ultimately approved by the full committee within the tenative Budget on January 2nd uh this recommendation took a look at our operating budget within that budget we we presented on the 20th at majority of it consisted of operating expenses but however there was Capital expenditures within there that were directly funded from our end otherwise uh known for you guys as your free cash the recommendation was to reduce our Capital expenditures and divert that 1.1 million to lower the assessments or ultimately uh the tax uh burden from the community uh just so everyone hears it this does make our end offset for f26 at $2 million in total uh we already had about $800,000 dedicated to reducing the assessment again this makes it about two million uh if you look at that compared to our overall gross budget it is 4 and a half% of our entire budget this will be something that we have to deal with in FY 27 uh through the next year uh myself Eric and the entire leadership team will be going through every single department and every single staff member to try to find anything we can do to help us in FY 27 uh but for right now it is lowering our overall assessment uh by 1. .1 million so ultimately when you add everything together based on these new numbers our total operating and debt as a gross figure for FY 26 is 48.5 million which year-over-year is an increase of 1.9 million or 4.08% uh included in the presentation and in the printout I did I do have a summary of all changes to our expenditures plus plus or minus $10,000 uh you can see at the bottom right corner it does uh total that $1.9 million increase year-over year uh in addition I do have a summary of All Staffing changes uh as you can see looking at this whenever we add a position somewhere we always try to offset it somewhere else uh so our year-over-year increase on FTE we try to stay level uh you can really attribute this one point um sorry this 0.88 increase uh to a new student that moved into District uh in their IEP required a one toone Aid uh so really that additional 1.0 year-over-year can be attributed uh to those needed Services uh so what does that mean for our tenative uh for our updated tenative assessment when you include everything in and outside the levy limit for Hamilton it is equating to a $972,000 increase or just under 4% uh and for venam it is $712,000 or roughly 5.67% uh that concludes the presentation I can take any questions or comments on page eight could you address uh operations and maintenance as to what's in there for the Cutler and winter schools uh this fiscal year that that's coming up and also address whether that those numbers were affected by the assump that we'd go forward with the new school project yep would that be uh slide eight or the other present the mark dat yeah slide eight hold on so your question is under the operations and maintenance what is included for the Cutler Elementary School what's in there for Cutler what's in there for Winthrop and how the numbers that are in there uh were affected by the anticipation of a new school uh these numbers are not affected by the anticipation of the new school the new school wouldn't be online for for many years from now so this uh budget for Cutler is exactly what it would be this year the new school does not affect it what's included in those numbers is things like custodian salaries um supplies and materials for the custodians are paper product all of our utilities to run the building uh and just preventative maintenance electrical costs Plumbing costs uh to keep the building functional so there's nothing that would have been deferred in terms of a project type of thing because you're expecting to have a school in a few years that is correct we did not defer or add in anything related to the new the construction of the new school that school will have to be operational for next year is that sufficiently answer your question Rosie go ahead hi Vinnie uh Rosie Kennedy from the Hamilton select board have a a question again about operations and maintenance can you tell us I mean custodian supplies um you know your budget is 3.5 million so I'm sure there's more in there than that and specifically I'm wondering about the uh boilers that broke down and um the roof on the high school where is your expectation in replacing those items yep so that 3.5 million isn't just supplies it's salaries as well uh that does cover the 20 custodians we have um on duty so it is more than just the custodial supplies right I'm sorry what was the second half of your question so um when you talk about operations and maintenance does the replacement of boilers and the replacement of the high school roof um are are are those included in this budget in total yep it is not included in this budget we plan on replacing those boilers this year uh so that would be in 25 not Incorporated in our 26 budget uh but an item like that would either fall under operations and maintenance or our capital and fixed assets it depends on the total price of the project I believe the threshold off the top my head is 150,000 if it's over 150 it falls to the capital assets okay and those will be taken care of on the in the onetime E and um free quote unquote free cash from the from the high from the uh School District budget right specifically are you talking about the boilers at the high school well I'm talking about the boilers and I'm talking about the roof um I'm just wondering where those um critical repairs and Replacements are in this budget so that's I guess what I'm asking y so the high school roof will probably cost upwards of anywhere to 3 to 5 million that is not included in our operating budget we would have to issue um some sort of debt exclusion or for that in the future so that any replacement of the roof is not included here the only thing that would be included in terms of the roof is just minor repairs to leaks and right items like that the full replacement is not in this budget okay so that that's something that's being um deferred deferred replacement is is that correct uh we are waiting for msba uh they accepted us into their program to replace the roof so we're going through their entire process which will probably take another year so we're not deferring it we're trying to work with the state to receive some offsetting funding to replace it okay so I I'm just I I will say that I'm concerned about the condition of of the infrastructure when these leaks are allowed to go on and on and um um I was um privy to some information that a high school student texted his mother saying that the this classroom is leaking like crazy I I worry about the um physical impact in terms of mold degradation to the actual building itself and so I'm just I'm just concerned that in this ginormous 3.5 million operations and maintenance that there's there's nothing in there to to address that critical need and yet here we are looking at another enormous um potential debt exclusion so I'm just wondering how the school plans to how the schools plan to deal with these critical is issues that are current and necessary now how do we do that uh with funding from the community we will we cannot include it in our operating budget as that would cause over a 133% increase uh we will be putting forth uh approval to take debt for that so it has been a concern that is why we've submitted to the msba for I believe the past three years to get accepted to replace the roof uh we have been trying to do it uh but we have been trying to do first some of those expenses to the state level instead of the entire uh community and taxpayers funding it can I jump in on this for a second course just just Rosie's is I think talking about there were a couple of points last year where we had some really heavy water infiltration at the high school and in specifically two classrooms uh that I remember that were pretty pretty heavy um we do budget money for those types of repairs through the year so even you know go back five years ago we were repairing leaks in both the high school middle school roof the buer roof we it's a constant thing with with our roofs uh last year alone I think we put about $440,000 into repairs across the roofs at the middle and high school um in anticipation of trying to get into the msba program in in November we were accepted into msba program uh it kicked off for us on January 2nd and then over the next four months we work with the msba to figure out um costs uh along the way including what they may reimburse uh as part of the project so if you you know you looking at a $3 million roof we're we're hoping to get anywhere from 30 to 50% from the state to offset the total cost to reduce the cost of the taxpayers and so um I I also feel compelled to bring up the issue of um eend money that could have been spent on the new school last year but was instead dedicated to the athletic fields program and um seems like that money in my opinion should have been used toward a roof so that it doesn't further degrade the infrastructure in our high school and we don't have um a ginormous new school project in our high school staring Us in the face so I'm I'm concerned about that I'm concerned about priorities I'm concerned about um putting money away for for and and budgeting and being really careful about every taxpayer dime that comes into the school district I can appreciate that thank you yeah and as you say that excuse me I think it's really important to realize that one are talking about an operating budget here and you're talking about uh capital projects and the school committee is really really limited on U what we could do and how we could spend our money based on um the regional agreement right where that sort of threshold lies I think the other thing that's really that you're sort of hinting at that I think is a really great time to bring up right now is that you know these schools continue to get older these schools continue to sort of fall apart and have these general maintenance um issues year after year after year after year um there's a lot more eyes on these projects now um with this you know with this this possibility of a new school coming in right and saying okay well why is it are these schools sort of having all these issues these schools have always had these issues no one's really noticed because we've done a great job inhouse of actually keeping them maintained year after year after year however we all own homes we all know things go wrong right same think we just you know scale up and that's you know what's going on all around our district excuse me so at some point we have to realize like when does it make the most sense to be fiscally prudent right we're all sitting in this room to actually try to figure out what makes the most sense for our both of our communities to say does it make the most sense to be paying 100% of the cost right now or can we get into this program where the state's going to reimburse us so we're paying 50 60 cents on the dollar replace a roof right so that's what when we say we're trying to enter into this msba program that's what we're doing so we could actually make the best financial decision for these communities to replace that roof so we're actually paying sort of pennies on the dollar right so it's not that we're that we're deferring anything it's they're actually trying to make the best decision you know financially to take care of the overwhelming number of things that go on simultaneously well you know the reality is this is life right and we have to make choices about where our finances go and the fact that the end money was used toward the athletic fields instead of the high school roof doesn't reflect a prudent financial decision when we know the damage that comes from constantly um leaking classrooms right we we we know this and so um that's why I bring this up if I could add an additional comment um the um Eric mentioned the uh msba and the state as you all know the new school proposal includes um reimbursement from the state and that generally is conceptualized in a reimbursement rate all right um currently that rate on the new school is in the 50% range for eligible costs as the state builds their rate how much do they want to give to each community and every Community is different they come out and they do a very healthy and David and Eric you can help me with this they come out and do a very healthy assessment of the state of the district and and how we um operate before they would commit any money the most recent um reimbursement rate that the state has given us included 1.7% um enhancement due to the good maintenance practices in the district so let me just play that back again the state who are experts in doing this stuff assessed Hamilton whenham School District and their maintenance program they gave us an extra 1.76% dollars which equates to $1.6 million extra money because we maintain our schools at a certain level now maybe some communities and school districts get 3% and some get cap is at two cap is two yeah cap is two so we get 1.76 out of a possible 2% out of okay so we're in the up we're in the 85% range something like that so I just you know add that to the conversation so you know when I when I went when I go through some of the schools I kind of feel bad that they're not better than they are but the experts gave us 1.7 out of 2% kicker which is 1.6 million due to meance so just adding that to the conversation as quick question uh relative to Capital and fixed asset improvements that's still operating expense right it's not Capital it's improvements to Capital items you you had mentioned there's no capital in the program oh uh fixing the roof versus replacing the roof okay so I know you had 950,000 there on November 20th now you have zero is there something you guys remove that you might need and there's a concern here potentially a breakage on that line item is that uh some of that 900,000 was a $500,000 transfer to Capital stabilization so it didn't we didn't really lose anything with that that's part of the reason we use the end because it's tough to ask for that much money and at the same time use it to put into savings that just seems unethical in my opinion but yep agreed is that typically a million dollar line you carry year over year over year or that category Capital fix in the past few years it has been yes and and next year Z Z just H for FY 26 it'll be zero yes just oh I'm sorry okay um one of the things that impacted the budget and and will impacted for the next three years at least is that our electricity rates went up 40% and maybe Eric you'd like to comment on the study that's that National Grid is financing to see where we can actually make uh en savings through strategic Investments possibly also with subsidies and rebates and so forth yeah the we're currently reached out to national grid with the help of Mr Frankle uh to try to get some opportunities to connect with uh a mass saves program basically for public buildings to try to figure out ways to uh enhance opportunities to you know save energy save electricity get away from fossil fuels those types of things we also work with VI Vicky Mason who I think most people are familiar with here who works uh really hard to find ways for us to you know make improvements within the school like all the lights in this cafeteria a grant that Vicki wrote uh charging station to high school is a charging station that will be installed down here at the buer uh opportunities for solar either you know if we if we build a new school there's opportunity to put massive amounts of solar there there's also opportunity to put uh solar on the high school uh one of the things the msba uh does now with their um what they call ARP programs which is for roofs and windows and things like that uh not only do they reimburse for part of the project cost they also reimburse for the full amount of being sold already uh which is a new incentive this year that that they put into play so we're looking at those those opportunities to try to figure out um kind of the best approaches if you will the the Dilemma you run into with anything related to uh solar or uh anything that needs to be connected to the grid you get caught in a long bottleneck we've been in we've been in a uh holding pattern for uh solar at the middle school we were going to put a solar canopy up in the middle school parking lot and that has been uh a little over two years in the making of waiting and waiting and uh in talking to the group that does those types of installations they're calculating out that if we replace the roof and put solar on the high school roof we could get even more energy savings by not only being able to put a bigger array on the roof kind of that unused surface but also uh building in a a storage system battery storage system um so we're we're trying to weigh all those options out to try to figure out the best approaches I mean none of these buildings are running at any more than 50 or 60% efficiency we've tried to retrofit over the years with the help from Vicki um to get retrofit money to change out lighting to digital digital lighting Chang uh different types of switching and try to get some automation we got our automation program at the Middle High School uh from a grant that Vicki had had gotten that helped us to uh better control some of the things that were occurring both with the heat and electricity throughout the um the school year so there there's a lot going on behind the scenes uh Curtis Whitman who is our uh new director I don't think he can be new anymore but he started uh late summer and uh he has been really just working with everybody he can find to try and figure out ways to save energy to save on cost to look at um even the way we we do uh transitions to from a say a fossil fuel to Electric what's that cost many of our schools are not outfitted with enough power to be able to run some of these larger scale things like boilers you put three electric boilers in the high school and you got to call National Grid and buy yourself a Transformer replacement and upgrade because there's not enough power coming in the building the these this was never planned for 50 years ago 40 years ago so um those types of things are really part of the equation as we look at it we're trying to get help from outside sources um some of those solar installations really the cost gets covered by the vendor in trade for revenues coming off of those um those solar panels or solar canopies and things like that so it's an interesting factor that you really have to keep an eye on because ultimately we want to save money and as Dave said I think our our our energy costs on average have gone up 40% both for natural gas and for uh electricity for the school district um you might also want to comment on the the EPA Grant and the electronic buses because that could stabilize and even reduce our busing cost Transportation costs and also serve as as as uh storage energy storage so the EPA has given a grant to the district for the opportunity to transition to uh electric buses we don't own buses we don't have buses we don't have bus drivers we basically contract out for all those services this grant will allow us to pass through the monies uh in in kind of a bidding contract to say if you're bidding on busing our kids this is our expectation to use electric buses so that transition will take place over time uh again some of the problems you run into with with uh electric buses is where do you put them where do you charge them and there are several companies around that will do it it's again another pipeline thing how long you have to wait you're just not sure e buses take about 16 months to get from the day you order so um it won't happen right away but those are all just different things that we're looking at that we're trying to pursue uh from the school district side but is like five or seven million five million five million in subsidy so it's not ins significant is that those subsidies will they be there in future years do you think or is there a risk of losing them if you didn't move or are they go I assume it's government it's enough to pay for about half of the capital cost of the bus and then the rest of it is is financed and and you have to bundle in the the infrastructure but there's people that package it out that Finance it and and deliver you it's virtually a turnkey kind of operation so David is that a is that an actual proposal that's in presented to the school department I'm just trying to catch up to the conversation so the the the big news if you will I just received it Monday from the EPA is the final award to say yes we're willing to award uh the district uh just under it's like 4.87 million to to purchase e buses there is no leasing involved it's just an outright purchase of buses they run about I think they run about $350,000 each um so basically we'd pass that money through to pick a bus company whoever bid on our contract part of that deal would be these are the buses that you need to use they would be responsible for developing the infrastructure um as part of as part of that Grant there there there's a company there are a couple companies that do it that kind of get operations up and running if you will set up the locations and the charging stations and things like that I know Vicky and the HW cat crew have been involved deeply in that too around the town so there's a lot there's a lot going on it's really trying to figure out ways to take advantage of it for the communities Eric could I just ask how many buses do we lease a year 14 plus two two buses for special ed and then we we pay uh over a million dollars in a of District transportation costs above and beyond that so those aren't buses those are generally small Vans you may see them going around taking a kid to a private location and the weakness up to now is it's all single Source bid we we never get we've never been getting competitive bids so this is an opportunity to create in effect competition which should help us with yeah part of the bidding process with buses has always been this this um growth of the local bus companies being bought up by a national company Beacon bus uh Beacon Transportation excuse me they've bought up most of the local small bus companies kept them in their subsidiary names and then they specifically look towards areas and say okay you're going to bid on ipss switch you're going to bid on Hamilton you're going to bid on so so you're you get one bid and uh it makes it tough when the state says you got to have a bidding process and you got to do this and you only get one bid there's really no Direction else to go in this we believe this electric bus program will comp create a little bit of a competitive programming here which will be helpful in the long run we just um are still trying to figure out what the long-term costs would be to us we're still going to pay something because you have a you have to have a driver you have insurance you have training all those things are still part of the equation this grant literally covers the buses and some of the infrastructure and has you know has us looking to um kind of subsources to help us to do that okay anybody else have anything all right thank you Vinnie yeah no problem yeah I uh is there any um I mean our our agenda item is budget discussion is there any um disc discussion questions anything that people want to bring up at this point Daniel yes yeah g ches from wiam select board just like to thank you know the three big entities here that uh once again we started off with some big questions at the beginning of the year and through great cooperation and interchange I think we're down to a very good position on the budgets so thank you to all the staffs and to the Committees I I yeah I'd like to reiterate it's been a um a good transparent process with a lot of discussion much appreciated anybody else all right um all right it looks like we're ready I know each uh board will have to do their own uh adjourning um we can just start over there if you guys are ready bcom yeah the Hamilton like to get a motion to adjourn the Hamilton went and fincom meeting at so moved so moved second andone in favor I I we're done I move that the Hamilton select board adjourn second all in favor toam but I have a motion to adjourn so moved all in favored looking for a motion to adjourn the wam finance committee 741 move to adjourn looking for a second thank you all in favor I right school committee closed thanks do we have a motion to adjourn I move uh school committee to adjourn 741 second by Amy kumberg all those in favor that is three in favor four in favor all right and and five and it is unanimous of the members present and we are adjourned at 741 7:41 thank you all