being held with the benefit of public notice as required by the open public meetings act. Madame clerk, please call the role. >> Mr. Tabelli >> here. >> Yes. >> Mr. >> Here >> please uh rise for a salute to the flag.
Pledge >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Please remain standing for the invocation. >> Dear God, we humbly acknowledge our
constant need for your presence and guidance in a time marked by war, uncertainty, and deep division. Steady our hearts and anchor us in your faith. Grant wisdom and restraint to our leaders and protection and courage to those in harm's way and comfort to all who suffer from violence and loss. We
offer these intentions in your name. Amen. >> Amen. >> Okay, Madame Clerk, please proceed with the agenda. Uh for your consideration, we have communication one permission to conduct package investigation by the Ningham merchant
unit at Caesar Bagels located on Flock Road on Sunday, June 26th. And then C2 are the joint proclamations recognized during the month of April, National Public Health Week, April 6th to the 12th, autism awareness month, Earth Day, Child Abuse Prevention Month, and Arbor
Day for your consideration. Council President, I'll make a motion on communication C1 and C2. >> I'll second it, Madam Clerk. Mr. Carell. >> Yes. >> Yes. Mr. Way. >> Yes. Phillips. >> Um, yes. On C2, I'm going to abstain from C1 as if I'm a member.
>> Absolutely. >> Mr. Sarah. >> Yes. >> Next, we have consent agenda item CA1 through CA8. >> Okay. Uh, just a brief summary. uh resolution uh supporting
um a cultivator for a license uh and manufacturer C1 and two um couple MUS small agenda tonight. Um adding another vendor uh pump station
um final design there for that. Any questions uh from council on the consent agenda items before we open it up to the public? >> Council President, um I just wanted to um mention three quick things. Not
really a question. um happy that we are uh u ongoing with CA3 with our you know uh relationship with our uh uh contiguous municipality Robinsville um in in that sewer agreement that we have
uh on CA3. Um, the other thing was that I was I'm excited to see that we're going after some grant dollars for the Abbott roof. Um, which I believe Kath Kathy is the CA6 I just had a question for you on
that one. Um, I know we're going after a grant for the um, Avid House roof there. Um, this is a is it a 50% match? Do you know if it's a ma match on this one? >> I don't know. If you give me a second, I'll see if it's in the if it's in the
back of that. >> While while you're looking for that, I did see uh the roof that we approved for the PD. I did see they were working on that today. Uh getting that done. I know that's been a long time ago. >> And it's a 50%. >> Is it a 50? Okay.
>> Might be less than that. I'm not sure because I thought >> I didn't see it in the backup. I was just curious. So maybe I overlooked it though. >> Oh no. So the matching funds are only $18,14320. >> So it could be a 6040. You think >> it's I think it's even
>> more than that. >> More than that in terms of the match. >> Oh, less than that. Okay. >> Yeah, because I think >> Okay, that's fine. >> Is wait a minute. Is the Is the roof one on here? I I know it started >> for PDA. No, it's already approved.
>> That's right. >> Of course. And the other question I had, Kath, was on um CA14. Um the my run stream bank restoration next to those two residential homes on
um Wesley Drive. Um was that are we outsourcing that work or is that done inhouse? >> I'm going to have to look that one up, too. >> Okay, >> that's fine. That's just but CA14 the way I
understood that's just establishing and agreeing with those homeowners. Correct. >> Right. >> Okay. >> So they can get back there and work. >> Yeah. So they can get back there and work. >> The work will be performed by our own public work. >> Okay. That's what I was assuming. Okay. >> So, but I wasn't sure and I didn't want to tell you the
>> Okay. Um I just want to jump in on um consent agenda item 18. So, sewer utility bonds, uh, we we spoke with Carrie. Obviously, she has a a multi-year plan to ensure
that, um, you know, our our sewer system continues to function. Uh, it's critical infrastructure, its improvements that we need to make. I'm just looking at appendix A on this and it looks like
there are allocations from 2016, 2017, and 2018. If I'm reading this correctly, >> from from those ordinances, you're probably correct. >> So, we we're just we're we're funding the bonds
now for work that we had. Okay. for work that we've done >> and now we're going out to borrow to cover that. >> Right. A lot of her projects we financed through the I bank. That's separate than this financing. This is going out to traditional bonds.
>> And we have for I think two years maybe three financed these temporarily in order to get the work done. And now we go back instead of doing bond anticipation notes we're now going to do the bond. Got it.
>> Okay. So, we did bond anticipation notes at the time we were doing the work. Now, we're doing permanent financing. >> That's exactly right. >> Okay. And on CA11, I just want to note uh the sludge hauling contract. Uh we now have a sledgehauling truck.
>> Um we're going to be realizing tremendous savings we're anticipating from that. So, hopefully we won't get anywhere near the maximum on that contract. >> Correct. This is really uh an as needed contract in case our driver is on
vacation or the truck goes down for whatever reason. Um that type of thing. So it's basically a backup or if we have excess that our one truck can't handle um this this will take the overflow as
well. So but we always used to use these outside contractors in place of our doing it ourselves. So we wanted to kind of keep one active anyway. So just taking the excess will actually be a good option. >> But but but would you still have the option that that I mean the whole idea
about getting the roll off containers and the truck to haul it was to eliminate these charges. Right. >> Correct. >> All right. Now, if if a case did arise that we we had two loads that had to go, can we use DPW as a backup instead of
paying these fees? >> I I'm not sure. Well, we don't have a container that would would take that. >> So, we only have one container at >> We do. Yes. Correct. >> So, so again, it's really just for the excess. We don't anticipate having to use them very much at all. If it
happened that we were using them more, you know, maybe it's time to reassess and we do need two trucks, right, to do it ourselves and then eliminate this excess completely, but I'm not sure we're even close to that yet. >> Okay. >> Thank you.
>> Um, last observation, we have uh well, two two measures uh that I just want to make a note of. Uh, CA4, affordable housing. Uh this is this is a great program uh that enables uh you know we
talk about keeping Hamilton affordable for our residents and this is an affordability measure uh where the township is going to help residents in need uh make repairs and improvements to
their homes and in exchange we get uh affordable housing units which we need for our Mount Laurel housing plan. Um, and the last piece that I want to see is we're continuing our efforts, and I'm glad to see that we're continuing our
efforts to uh clean it yet another brownfield uh in Hamilton. We're going to return it to its natural state uh and preserve it as open space. So, I'm glad to see that measure as well. And and to piggy back off what uh
Councilman Todd just said is that I I think hence what we've done recently with the OS property and the St. Rafield's property is going to be more senior affordable housing which is going to give us brand new units and you know allow residents that want to stay here
naturally to be able to afford to uh you know have a place to live that's going to be suitable. So I think they're two good projects that are going to benefit the town. Great, >> Councilman. >> I'm good. >> I'm good. >> Okay. At this time, uh, anyone from the
public that wishes to, uh, comment on the consent agenda items only, uh, raise your hand and we'll call you up after, uh, one meeting hiatus. Uh, Jonath, come on up. >> Sorry, we missed you.
Uh, John Cornell, of course, I made up for it when I was the only man here that won me. >> That's right. You're still ahead of the game. The crowd. >> Okay. C9, where is this house? Is there an old house that's being knocked down or >> you're talking about over 33?
>> 33. Yeah. >> That's That's the one next to Crossing Shamrock. There's the house that's uh sitting back in the woods that's >> uh not inhabitable. Destroyed already. They're going to they're going to clean that up. >> Okay. cuz I don't go down that often, but I'm thinking where is their house
>> right next to Cross and Shamrock in that field. >> You can hardly see it in the summertime. You can you can see it better in the winter when no leaves are on there. >> Okay. And then are we going to own the land? >> We do own the land. It was donated to us. >> And so, but >> good, >> right?
>> Yeah. You're doing a great job. >> I told you last week I got to talk less and >> I'm good with you talking more. >> Whatever. donated to us, but we have to take down the business. Oh, okay. >> And we're preserving that as open space, correct? >> Yes. >> Yeah.
>> Very good. And nice to see you guys. Thank you. >> I I see back together. >> Yeah. No, for one night. >> That's right. >> Any other questions from the public on the consent agenda items?
>> Okay. See none. Council President, I'd like to move on the consent agenda items CA1 through CA18. I'll second that. >> On the motion, Mr. Par. >> Yes. >> I'm going to abstain on CA1 and CA2 due to my work with the NJA
and I'm a yes on the rest of the agenda. >> Doing notice. Mr. >> Yes. >> Phillips. >> Yes. >> Mero. >> Yes. >> Moving on to second reading ordinance. Ordinance 1.6013. 613 is an ordinance to exceed the municipal budget
appropriation limit and to establish a tax pursa 4-45.14. >> Any questions or comments from uh my colleagues? >> I'm here. >> Any questions or comments on ordinance
125013 from the public on second reading of public hearing? Yeah, separately. Okay. >> Seeing none, can do we have a motion? >> Council person make a motion to move on ordinance 26-013. >> I'll second that.
>> On the motion, Mr. Perelli. >> Yes. >> Mr. T. >> Yes. >> Mr. Whan. >> Yes. Mr. >> Phillips. >> Yes. >> Mero. >> Yes. >> Ordinance passes. Ordinance 226-014 is an ordinance amending and supplementing the council of council of New Jersey part 3 land use legislation
chapter 550 land development article 3 district regulations se section 550-812 4 research engineering office district >> council president at this time I'd like to make a motion on ordinance number
226-014 to hold this um want to do a little more investigation into this with our director of economic development and just uh want to make sure that you know everything's in line first before we uh
imagine be reintroduced at our next meeting. >> Good. >> I'll second that. >> On the motion, Mr. Parabelli, >> yes. >> Mr. Kai, >> yes. >> Mr. Whan, >> yes. >> M Phillips, >> yes. >> Mr. Pero, >> yes. ordinance table for a future
meeting. Ordinance 3 2016 015 amending and supplementing the code of the country part three legislation chapter 550 land development article 3 district regulations section 550-2 manufacturing and industrial district
second. Council President, I'd also like to make the same mo motion on ordinance number 326-015 so we can gather a little more information. >> I'll second that. >> Madam cler >> on the motion, Mr. Carave. >> Yes.
>> Mr. Ty, >> yes. Mr. >> Yes. >> Phillips. >> Yes. >> Mah. >> Yes. >> Again, ordinances table meeting. Okay. Uh with the agenda complete, we'll move into uh public comment. Uh the p
public comment portion of the meeting. Uh first speaker, Ellen, please come up to the microphone. >> Hello everybody. >> Hi. >> How are you? how are you living under better more pleasant circumstances, but um I could use your advice and possibly
your health still about um the illegal dumping investment that I had and um remember I thanked you, but I think I thought they only did turn this off when I was able to go back there and they that was the
case. They only did number 24. They see the high number 28 Tony and he could still be jumping back there. And um I also found another hole with two metal pipes over it and some other stuff. And somebody was walking back near a deer and break their leg. Call them out and
break their leg. So I was just hoping since I called last year a few times and told the higher up for handling. Then I called this year again, never heard anything. Then I saw T66 email dated 311. that the person said I think this
was handled last year. So I guess that's end the story. So I haven't saw that. No address called yesterday and saw that it still be assigned to John Leonardo. I saw remember the name and I then I found out
he's from zone. He said I came out didn't do anything and they said he was assigned to the house of private property. the level in confidence is still mindboggling and so I stand today to make sure it's fine to public works and
it has been to Kyle again but I'm pulling out of patience and I'm afraid public works will continue the month and months of stalling in in essence letting this drop um I was I was like please how do we get finished the other 50% of the job and make it safe back there so I
walk again and um on another issue number seven ever since she put up the wonderful signs. He looked directly out and kept dumping dumping all year long. And so I guess I just call the police at this point. Um that's I need anxiety.
>> You witnessed the dumping. >> I saw one from the He waits until he thinks I'm not around and one time I actually was upstairs and I saw the window and dumped his grass cooking and cycle and dumped it right there on the wood. Were you able to get like a
license plate number or anything? >> It's behind our houses. Yeah. It's just behind their property. >> It's walkable. >> And a lot of times because he waits till I'm not around. >> So it's a neighbor. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And the one is actually one was
dumped for over 30 years. He's actually finally been flying. So I took a picture out in front of his house and that went back in the woods would be more disastrous. So I'm glad he's doing it. But I don't know about 28. I know number seven is 28 Shaune you said. >> Yes.
>> You already said that one was still >> that was the police came and first talked to him, right? She was going to work. I don't know how it got brought from the to-do list. >> From whose to-do list? >> Public works. Okay. >> They were going to come out and they came out with some machine to carry all
the brushes and they did behind 24, but they didn't touch the 28 to have stuff that was all lined up behind 28 going way back. Okay. >> Which whose property is behind 20 >> township township? I remember that from when she
>> So it's all it's all trees. Um >> Yeah. >> Y two creeks that have now because of the topography changes is one big swamp when it rains. You have to wait till it dries out for five weeks >> to go back there. and it's landlocked,
so it's not like it's really accessible to lots of folks, but you know, >> it's still county property and they've been notified many times >> and signage put up that >> they're not to be dumping back there and they started kind of on the fringes of
their property, but then it grew after that. So, >> so actually they went back, they cut right behind there so they have a back so the trees don't come and fall and drop a lot of leaves. So they when it's back there, they keep dumping two, three, four houses back so they don't have to look at it.
>> Dumping grass clippings. >> Yeah. And tree >> all kinds of natural materials. But it'll take 10 plus years to do. And it has now we have hills and mountains that get drained now. And it was creating mosquito ponds and firehouses.
>> Where did the metal poles come in? >> They're they're just there. I don't know. Are those the ones that have been there for some time? Correct. That's completely different. They did come public works did come when they came to my property. They roll concrete with um >> walls of concrete that were attached to
a laundry line pole. Right. >> Those are taken care of. But these are just some kind of holes. Yeah. I didn't see before because I knew he said that. He had a chicken wire fence around it and two metal doors about this big each door covering this hole and then it seemed to disappear and I saw it again
when I went back there last week. >> All right. I'll have public works. We'll go out again. I don't know the last time too. And >> I think we should we should notice some residents cuz imagine if everybody did the same thing. >> Mhm. >> You know, I mean, we have an ecological center. We have places where you can go
and and take your debris. And matter of fact, in some areas, they actually have a place where you could put your grass clippings, right? The township comes and and cleans it up, whether it's leaf collection. >> I mean, they should be compliant. >> Yeah. I didn't get a problem. And now my brush my brush is this is the fifth
week. my brushes.com. I don't care. I'll keep adding to it, but and we have three other neighbors that have been added to it. So, I know they're backed up. Maybe they don't have enough health and stuff, but if this was resolved last year or another tree falls kind of thing, thank you for explaining it so much better
than me. >> No, you do fine. >> We'll pass we'll pass on the information. >> Oh, I know what the thing is. If it's not a a rule that they can't contact, I said someone would call me and go with me back there. I just want to show them like they they say they come and they don't see anything or they don't want to
do anything and then nothing. >> I don't think they do that as a matter of course, but again, they should be following up on the Cclick fixes and you should be getting an answer through that communication, not that we looked and didn't see anything. Right. So, >> well, yep. I guess how much and I
committed for over a week to see the last year as far as taken care of. I I gave them my phone number, call me, I'll make an appointment and I'll let you back there because all this all property. >> Mhm. Yeah. I remember I took we we took a
tour of it a couple years ago >> gone to another operation. I I really don't want to deal with this, but it has to be, you know. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you so much. >> Is it Mike?
>> Yes. Please come up. >> Hello. My name is Mike. Um I live in West Baker's neighborhood on 9 lane and my issue is I work at Ben Iron Brewery. Um we've brought this to the council's attention before and it just seems like nothing's really happening. We've had
police come out. They don't seem to do anything. Um, it was quiet over the winter, but it's been cold, so they weren't having outdoor events. Um, they're starting to ramp up again. Um, just to keep it simple, I live 1600 ft at the bird flies from the brewery. I shouldn't be able to hear music at the
levels I'm hearing it from that far away. If it's 8:00 at night last night, I rolled my trash can out and I felt anxious that I was upset in my neighborhood because of how loud my trash can was. Our neighborhoods are quiet. I know there's specific levels for residential, but we're in a quiet
neighborhood. There's less than 100 houses in the neighborhood and they have a parking lot that on a regular night has 150 cars in it. It's It's ridiculous. It's not It shouldn't be zoned for a facility like that. It's It's supposed to be When I moved in, there was three nurseries that were not
open to the public. It was, you know, contractors only. There's reserve farmland. And now I'm living next to a bar. And the only reason it spells nursery on their sign is because they have so many kids there. It's basically a children's nursery. They're running around like kind of unwilling to feral,
but they're they're just not being looked after. Their parents are getting drunk. They had a keg and egg event on Easter that so their parents can get drunk and their kids can find eggs in the woods. Like it's it just doesn't make sense to me and I don't understand why nothing's happening with it. >> I have a question. When um when this was
approved, uh was it approved for live music? I I don't know the answer to that, but again, I think >> there was live music on Friday night. >> We've had >> Go ahead. >> And again, I know that we've had the
noise issues there before and I'm not quite sure how any of those got resolved other than discussions with that. But as far as running the business and being able to have entertainment there and all of that, that's certainly allowed even
though it may not be wanted or enjoyed by the neighborhood. I mean, it's they did get approved to put there and they have their business there. So, part of it is they're allowed to run their business there, but at the same time, they have to be compliant number one.
And, you know, we've had to ask them in the past too to be neighbor friendly as well because of their situation. So, uh, you know, I don't know what the last communications have been. I do know that the police are responsive. They go out when they're
called and I I think they do whatever they're allowed to do or what they can do depending on what the situation is, but I don't think they're measuring decibb or anything like that. So, again, I, you know, >> and I'm not a sound engine here. I'm not trying to make any claim that they're
going to the decel levels, but again, I'm over a quarter a mile away at vertifies through houses and trees >> and I can hear it as you know like it's coming out of my house >> and it's happened before that their noise levels have been probably
more than than should be that then they should be allowed to do >> and you know they give us promises that they're going to try different things but what we've all seen the only they've done is they move their stage around a little bit but still on the same side of the property that's bouncing everything
into our our yard. They have a huge property, acres, >> right? >> They can move the stage to the other side of the building. They can do lots of things and they're just they don't care. >> Thank you for your time. >> All right. Thank you. Sorry. >> Yeah. Before you go, Mike. Um so I know I was um in connect in communication
with Rick that night as well. Um, I also had and so I know Director Dumont did go out um and he sent me um the video of him measuring the decibb at the property line. So I think part of the issue is our our ordinance says up to 55 dB
>> and they it never went above I mean hovers around 51. It's like 53. So I say it's like really I mean it's right there at the line. Um but tech but I asked about a police report because I know the police were called and they didn't find any violation either. Um so I think
that's that's part of you know they're still operating within the ordinance. That's just something you know maybe that's something else we have to consider. >> My question is our neighborhood's so small spread out. We're not like the area around here. I can understand that the level being that high here but like I said rolling my trash can out down my
driveway. I get nervous when I'm setting my neighbor. It just doesn't allow the noise of the wheels on the concrete. That's how quiet our neighborhood is. At 8:00, it goes down on a normal night, but when they're open, it's like we have a you have the roadhouse next door. >> What time have they been shutting down
at night? >> I mean, they've been complying with their hours. They're not staying open late. >> I believe they actually, I'm not defending. I'm just saying I believe Friday night they wrapped up. I happen to know when who was there as well, like um around 8:30 and I think they're allowed to have it until 10:00.
you know, we have other other bars that have uh outdoor entertainment uh in more densely populated parts of the township from which we receive zero complaints and we're receiving constant complaints
from Ben Brewery. And if our if our ordinance is 55 and they're bumping right up against the maximum, then they're honoring the letter of the law, but maybe not the spirit of the law. And Uh, and I'm a man of disrespect against
Fred, but I don't believe he's a sound engineer either. So, how do we even ensure he's using the device correctly? I mean, if he's not trained on how to use a death meter, which is I believe the equipment that's being used, you have to hold it at a certain height. You're supposed to be knocking your head because you'd be blocking the sound with your body. There's all kinds of
different variations. I mean, you don't have an actual sound engineer or somebody who's trained to use it going out there to the measurements. >> We don't employ a sound engineer. Usually, the police officers do it. So, I don't know that they would be under that phone that I seen God. And listen, I'm I'm sympathetic towards it, right?
Like everybody else, >> if that was that one night, I'm not I'm not saying every other night is that quiet. Like I told you, I know somebody lives in that neighborhood and I hang out in that neighborhood. So, I was there Friday night in the neighborhood. Okay. Um I didn't I heard the music. Didn't think it was loud, but I also
wasn't right on top of it either and I still heard it. So, I do understand where you're coming from. Some of the other complaints with the loud music, the offensive language, the kids shrieking, I'm sure that is not pleasant. This one on Friday night probably doesn't fit in the same
category as those other ones. And the keg and the egg thing, I'm not even sure. I've never heard of that before. Yeah. So, >> that's a whole new uh >> to me it seems like it's a bar. So, I don't even understand how kids are allowed to be either the way that they're operating and they're just not being, you know, nobody's
that doesn't seem right to me on a whole separate note, but that's a great >> I I I know a couple I don't know how many months ago it was, we had them in here. We had some residents in here that night >> and and and you know, I I remember
saying to them, you know, hey, you got to be a good neighbor. But they had planned on a meeting, right, with the residents. Did Did anybody go to that? >> I did. And >> And how how were you guys received? And >> they they talked to us. They gave us promises. They said they were going to try different things. They were going to
get different equipment. They're going to have people come out and give them ideas on what they can do. And again, like I said, all they did was move their their stage wagon around. >> Have you gone back over as a as a group to say, "Hey, you know, you promised us this, you promised us that, but you
know, promises ain't being kept." We've we've talked to them a couple times, but it's to the point now where we feel like it's it it's not a part-time job for us. We shouldn't have to be the ones that are making this happen. We made our complaints to them. We made our complaints here and, you know, nothing's
being done. So, we don't know what to do next. >> Have things gotten better from before? >> It's hard to judge because it was winter so they stopped doing outdoor events. >> Well, like this this weekend for example, right? Like I know someday it rained so it's a tough tough call but I
I remember the days where um and I know we're out of time but this is important to keep going. Um I know the days when the music was offensive and uh they were screaming at the top of their lungs. Has it been that
bad again? >> Yes. >> I wasn't uh there the day that that Dave was there but I've been told by other people in the neighborhood. >> Okay. I'm trying to help my neighbors out by showing up today. >> Okay, thank you.
>> Uh, so that's all we have. Uh, who signed up on the list? Is there anybody else that would like to be heard uh from the public? >> Um, you can go first. >> You're record. >> Yeah, I don't know your name, so that's why I'm David. I'm at three. But I have a
feeling I live right next door to Mike, who you might have been over at Mike's house. >> Might be. It might be true. might be true. I'm this neighbor, a go a good guy. Um, so I'm I'm Dave Horox, three great three people with Lane. Um, so I I have kind
of continuation, not trying to be a a dead horse here. Yes, the brewery is still making loud music. Uh, you know, Mike and I actually reached out to brewery after our last meeting that we both attended. I know Rick's been here
in between. Um and we went there and we met directly with the owners who are very nice people and it's a very nice facility and everything and um we talked about various things. We talked about the stage for one. The stage is a wagon.
It has no sound mitigation whatsoever to it at all. And that was probably half of our conversation was about, hey, if you put a piece of cardboard on the back of that stage, wow, what a difference that would make to probably Mike and I that are half a mile away. Maybe not so much
Rick that's right next door, but it would make a difference. Um, oh gee, the speakers are mounted on on your building directed directly at the neighborhood high up and directed right at us above the tree line. Well, maybe that would make a difference if you put them down
low directed at your building. Maybe control the sound. Oh, yeah, that sounds interesting. I'm not sure we could do that, but you know, okay. Well, maybe it would also help us if you know you're playing music on a Friday night. If we knew it was just Friday night that
you're doing it and you're not going to then ramp it up on Saturday during the day, all day, all night, and then on Sunday, too. So, we now have that thread of our weekend entirely shot where we hear the brewery going all the time.
>> Um, and it is disruptive. On Friday night, I had my mom who flew in from Utah, my mother-in-law who came. I had cooked for two days. You know, I'm a chef and I cooked for two days various food items. We're having like a Passover
style celebration. We're eating with our windows open. It's a beautiful night right there. And yeah, we hear the brewery playing in the background and it doesn't sound great. It's probably music that I would like if I was there, but the the way it bounces off their
building reflects and sounds like a bad Elvis impersonation. Doesn't matter what music they're playing. So, we met with the owners and then since then we were like, okay, maybe they're going to do better. We hear hear them making experimentation, moving the stage. They were reaching out telling us
they were doing stage. Um then they had an extremely loud event and uh at that point in time that loud event kind of pushed us to say look they're not doing anything. They didn't change the stage. They was extremely disrespectful. We call the police. They don't do anything.
We're back where we were. Okay. What do we do? Well, we knew we had this county case with the Mercer County about with the a uh division and that we already talked to them and they were already reaching out encouraging us to file uh a
case for mediation and they were advising us that they are not going that the entire brewery aren't going to do anything. They've had cases or similar cases where the owners don't do anything to help the people. You need to file and
submit for mediation. So I submitted a case for mediation and that was in November. Since then uh the brewery owners have have said that they would participate in the mediation till that whatever form has been okay. Since then, however, we
have I have offered multiple dates which I am available and the uh county has offered multiple dates which they are available and the brewery owners have kicked the can down the road and not offered a single date so far that they are available.
So, uh, we're there and, uh, we have no date for mediation and no no response from the owners waiting for that. And then, uh, the police we call and they say they won't issue a citation because they're not out of compliance. But it
does say on the ordinance that if we can hear them 300 ft away, then they're a nuisance and that is a violation. So despite it sound ethical, it says under nuisances that that I shouldn't hear them 300 ft away. So I don't understand.
There's a conflicting uh information on those. So you're you're referring to 317 and the definition of nuisance though is higher up and the definition of nuisance
is um it would be 317-2 and that is oh I'm sorry thank you um matters, things, conditions or acts which after proper investigation by the
health officer are designated deemed to be injurious, detrimental or menacing to the public health of the inhabitants of the township. So I think there's a question as to whether or not it falls under the nuisance statute. >> Okay. Then also they apply apparently with the
county to host these events and the county sent me the paperwork and the the provisions in which they are supposed to be allowed to host events and apparently they apply for this fundament every year through the county and I reviewed that
and we we all reviewed it. They're supposed to be allowed to play around county agricult like I don't I don't have any I can't you know >> and I I'm fishing for like somebody to eventually do something to solve this
problem because I didn't move next to a barn on a farmland. I moved next to a farmland in a quiet area specifically for my family and we wonder do we do we continue to invest in our property making it better every year or do we
just up and move? We we have those conversations in our household every week. >> Is there a way to mediate this through the town legally? >> I I don't know. Can I just jump in real quick? Because I had already initiated um weeks ago before I knew they were
having this event Friday. I had to actually look up their events, what was coming up and reach out to Dr. O'Hare um and to director Dumont to set up, you know, I said, "Well, you know, why don't we be proactive this year and try to get to them before the season, talk to them and try to prevent any issues and
literally that was what, two weeks ago, but Detective O'Hare was here. We were in touch and then I started hearing from Rick on Friday. Um because we also did look into one of their June event as well was the first concern because we misunderstood what type of event it was.
Um but I was like that was one step we were actually taking initially just because we had been involved initially when you guys had come to us before. I know detective O'Hare has been you know very aware of the situation and is interested in doing whatever he can to
to alleviate that. Um so I I'll let you go ahead. That's just what we were trying to I think it's worthwhile to have >> township officials, whether it's Detective O'Hare and Fred or both, >> to reach out to the owners to say, "Hey, you know, they've got this mediation
request in and you know, let's let's get you all together and actually do let the county conduct the mediation or the mediator, however that's chosen, and then we'll go from there because, you know, hopefully
they'll come to the table in in earnest, right, to say that if we're going to mediate, we'll we'll try to to >> it's not fair, right, to somebody that lives there first to have somebody come in and change the neighborhood and especially when people are offering
alternatives and you're thumbming your nose at the neighbors, that's not okay either because now you're not being a good neighbor, right? So pointing the speakers in a different way, lowering the speakers, um creating a burm or a background on the stage. These are all
very simple and manageable um requests and um I I think something at this point, enough is enough before the summer gets here or even or warmer weather. Uh I I something needs to be done. I I I agree with council president
and you know what they should come up with a game plan you know even to the point of controlling the kids. I mean their their responsibility okay and the owners of the property if they see the kids are running around they're getting close to the houses and they're screaming and hollering should
be going up to these parents saying hey your kids are really out of control. Nobody's watching them. It's not our responsibility. It's yours. You got to get your kids under control or they're gonna cut it cut the kids out. You know what I mean? I I don't bring my kids to
a bar or Well, they're older now, but And so am I, but you know what I mean? I didn't bring my kids to a bar. >> I think the kids are the least of the problem. It is the recent problem. But, you know, when kids are running around, I know there's been offensive language
even by some of the teenagers probably that that that people hear and they shouldn't have to hear that either, you know, and if the parents ain't around close enough to keep an eye on the kids, they don't know what they're saying. So, it's it's a culmination of a few things, right? The loud music, the kids running
around. Listen, we all want the kids to have a good time. There's no doubt about it. But they still got to be respectful of their neighbors and they they got to come up with some type of game plan because uh like like council president said these neighbors were there first, right? It's not like Ben Iron Brewery's
there and they decide to move in and now you know it's like you know the person complained about living near an airport and the airport's been there for 50 years and they moved in now they're complaining about the planes flying over their head. Right. Well, you should have thought it out before you moved in. Right. But
>> can you keep us uh up to date on what's going on this week? Uh where this goes? >> I will. Thank you. >> I can I just ask a question too? So I pulled up the the ordinance that you're talking a nuisance ordinance. So I'm looking at the um 317-17C,
>> right? with it says it shall be unlawful for any person to cause, suffer, allow or permit the operation of any source of sound outdoors, such as from a sound producing device habitually and or persistently that is plainly audible from a distance of 300 ft of the residential property line of the
originating sound. So, how is how are they not violating that? >> That would be it's a viol it's a violation if it's a nuisance. Okay. But you have to then go over to the definition of what a nuisance is and which is the
injurious to to whatever it was. So the nuisance is defined above as matters, things, conditions or acts which after proper investigation by the health officer or designate are deemed
to be injurious, detrimental or menacing to public health of the inhabitants of the council. So the question is is is the loud music injurious or menacing to public health after investigation. So >> but that's not the only definition of nuisance. Nuis a nuisance isn't only a
public health question. >> But in in in this in this ordinance that's how it's written. So yes under under this ordinance definition because remember the this this ordinance was about a whole variety of things.
>> Yeah. Exactly. It was a much broader question. >> Well, I would I would um I would point out the word detrimental. It is detrimental when uh somebody can't uh you know enjoy having their windows
open >> because of the noise. That's detrimental. >> I mean that's but that's a question of law, right? There's the issue of the question of law. So >> well question of law. I mean what is detrimental? Well, I mean, that seems detrimental to me. I mean, it just seems
like, and again, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like common sense. But one other point I want to make. Uh, if the verbiage that you quoted from the county is correct, then it seems that the county has leeway that we may not have.
And they issue a permit on an annual basis based on a stricter guideline than that which we have in place. So maybe we need to prevail upon our friends at the county to help us help our neighbors in this in this neighborhood.
>> So I understand what you're saying about nuisance. However, when I look at 317-17 under noise and it starts and it talks about um the operation, you know, and and things like that, right? That's
that's letter A. When we get down to sea, it's not a nuisance. It's about noise, >> right? >> But it's still within the nuisance. >> And this is really a lot less complicated than we're making it. I mean, these guys can turn the volume
down on this thing. It's not that complicated. If they want to be good neighbors, they could turn the volume down. You could have a guy with an acoustic guitar playing without amplification and people would enjoy it. It doesn't need to be reaching residents
who live 1,500 ft away from the location where the noise is being. >> I have to respectfully disagree and that's not with you. Um I I'm I'm respectfully disagreeing because it doesn't we're not talking about the definition of a a nuisance. We're talking about the definition of noise.
We're talking about the violation of somebody's privacy and their quietness. We are not talking about a nuisance. I'm not talking about an animal or a cat or anything. We're talking about noise. It's under the noise section of the ordinance, >> right? Which is unlawful between 10 and
seven on 0 11 or 7 on the weekend. >> And that's that's letter A, >> right? When you go to letter C, it says it shall be unlawful for any person to cause, suffer, allow, or permit the operation of any source of
sound outdoors, such as from a sound producing device habitually and/or persistently that is plainly audible, from a distance of 300 ft of the residential property line of the originating originating sound. It no
does says nowhere does it recognize the definition of the nuisance. At nowhere does it use the word nuisance. Nuisance is not even in the word or in this section. So I'm respectfully disagreeing that this is a violation of of this
section. >> It's under article three entitled prohibitive nuisance. So when you read the ordinance in a whole I would argue and and you know I mean I could argue either either side, right? I mean I I could argue in in support of
what you're saying and I but I I'm I'm playing I'm I'm arguing the other side too and because it is written in article three called prohibitive nuisances. So 317 >> so does every nuisance have to be
decided by a an issue of health? >> I think so. Yeah. >> I don't respectfully disagree. >> Um >> that's because you go back to the definition of what a nuisance is. So, if I come bang on on a drum outside of a person's house, right, and I bang on that drum all night until 10 o'clock, is
that a nuisance? >> That might also be harassment. >> It's It's a nuisance. I'm playing the drums. It's not harassment. I'm not harassing you. I'm not even at your house. If I'm playing the drums outside in my yard, my is that is that is that a violation of everybody else's rights to
quiet? My opinion is yes. I'm not going to say I'm going to buy drones and come back, but this is a clear violation. It falls under that category. And I am not an attorney and I am not claiming to ever be an attorney, but
we need to we need to look at it from these people's perspective, >> right? Especially from people in this room that have been out there other than the residents and saying that we're looking at it from both sides. every instance of a noise violation is not a nuisance and is not going to be related
to public health. However, if you want it related to public health, I'm sure the neighbors could say that their health is being affected by this. So, if we want to talk about that, I'm sure we can persuade everybody uh to go that way. >> And I'll stop. >> Well said. >> Yeah.
>> Enough is enough. >> Yeah. >> Something needs to change. So what would this require to so if we're saying like does the health department have to do an investigation and rule it to be a violation of the health? Is it something
we need to look at the ordinance and adjust the ordinance? >> So it's a separate like because I understand there's the umbrella and then there's the subtext. I understand that. >> Um so is that something we need to change? Well, let let me discuss with
with Fred and with Detective O'Hare and we can even loop in right the health office if necessary. I'm not sure they're going to be able to assess that >> in terms of you know whether it's damage
to health or not based on the situation. I don't know. So, but if they think they could be involved and and at least be informed anyway because it may come down to that eventually that they have to have some type of opinion on that. Um,
but I think if it's all right with you, right, we'll try to kind of push the mediation because I think if if you have that and this is I mean my opinion here that it will prove whether they really want to be a decent neighbor or not. Um
because if they're willing to mediate and then they stick to it, right, what you guys come to as an agreement, at least initially, um then that may help resolve some of it. I don't think a mediation is going to resolve everything
um on on either side, right? And that's kind of what a mediation is. But let's let's see if we can go that route because that's even from an even more independent party, right? it's uh the county and we'll certainly support and
work with that however we're able to in the process, right? But we just got to get them to the table first. And if they're not even coming to the table, that may tell us, right, whether they're willing to or not. And I can keep you all updated on on where that goes. >> Does it do they have to respond to the
county within a certain period of time for the mediation? >> I'm not familiar with that process. Is it is it there a time period that they should have to respond or set up the mediation date? >> I I don't without without having to >> Well, maybe that's something we should find out too. Find out you know what's
it when did when >> it's probably optional and so they there may not be any time limits on that. But I I'm not sure because you you've applied for it. So I don't I'm not quite sure what the restrictions are on that. But let's see if we can at least get them to respond to that in a timely
manner. If it if they just put it off until the fall, right, that's not going to help you out. You have an issue right now and it's going to only get worse, right? With the summer and the the warmer weather coming. So, >> let's see what if we can get them to respond in
>> So, when was the mediation request made? >> Uh, the mediation request was made, I believe, in November. uh they initially uh proposed some days the county did and kind of said but then you know we'll have to do a substitute mediator because I'm going on vacation.
There was some some problems with their schedule initially >> and so I said well you know I know that they're going to get quiet. We're not in a huge rush at the time >> but handled this at the first year. First the year came they listed over a
month worth of dates. So, you know, I'm used to responding like a realer right away on stuff. So, I responded with the dates that I was available. It was kind of a rough time frame for me, but there was a lot of options that I provided. And then I was kind of expecting as
stated on the email chain, you know, reply to all with your availability. So, that's what I'm doing. The brewery owners are on the same email. What what particular I'm sorry to interrupt, but what particular uh division or office was it through the planning office?
>> Um it's the A uh office and his name is David Kimmel Kimmel. >> Okay. >> And I think he's an attorney. >> I don't know. At that time it kind of came to the end and the brewery owner said none of these kind of work. It was kind of last minute
of the availability and then uh some more days were offered. I responded with my availability and then there has been no response within maybe two weeks since then. >> Okay. that we're going in, you know, quite a ways here. And I see I see the
pattern, you know, and again, I saw the stage and after having that lengthy conversation with them in person about the stage and seeing the stage, it's still the same. And how quickly it would be to just put up some piece of sheet
metal across the back or some hay bales on the other side of it or something to block the noise that's generated from the stage. that seems to be like the most like you're we're working with you kind of a thing and you know I don't see
that. So why here today? >> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Do you want to go next and your I don't want to change topics and then come back rather. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Council me Rick 37 acres. um don't have
anything like prepared tonight, but I can answer a couple of questions. Um one specifically about the uh the county. Um I'm not involved directly in that professional. Um not complaints, but I I've researched a lot of that. I know
>> I do that microphone closer to >> that. >> Not yet. >> Nope. Um I believe that they would have the option of the mediation of a voluntary option. So if the owners of the area are
purposely delaying it, um the resident property, they no longer want to be a part of that and then the county decision on that and then both parties have a chance to appeal to that and go to the state board of agriculture. So I think that being an option they can
consider in that. So now we voluntary that process signific um as far as the the nuisance um crashes that come up. >> I mean I can I can tell you basically
from my perspective. So we moved into the south you know in 2010. Um, like everybody said, it's quiet neighborhoods and great out there. Um, in 2023, I was excited when I first heard about this
brewery situation. I thought it was going to be like other breweries that's been put into one before where you go there and it's like it's actually a background sound and it's not, you know, you don't have to scream over. This is
being operated completely like a bar. And I can tell you the police when we call them, they say it's a bar. They say it's a bar and they're operating within their allowance. It's not a bar. It they found an intersection between the county
and the township. They were only allowed to have this structure put in place because it was preserved farmland when they got approval under this special program that was signed into law um around 2024 where they were able to you
know use this if they were you know proving that it was a farm operation and then they get it. But then when it came to us 38 parking spaces, ancillary music backgrounds, ancillary tubing, you know, serving of alcohol, all these different
just in my mind until I see otherwise, it was a way for them to get their foot in the door. And at some point, and I'm just going to have to do an over figure out this, but they came back and they got approval put in this giant parking place that's now 125 additional stations
from this they're getting to Mexico. So when they came to us, we didn't have any reason to pick it. It could be a really big operation. You know, I had a neighbor that's not here to me. He says it's like a carnival. And that's really the best way to describe it. I live next to a carnival. And all the time frames we're talking about 8:00 and I thought
it does not matter. It starts at noon on a Saturday throughout that entire day when I want to use my my backyard. There are people it's just a ban of people all the time. the kids. It It can sometimes that can be the worst thing because it's
screaming children. They're not being like if you went to a playground and there were no parents there, the kids were just going to scream. So when they're away from their parents, it just cuts through everything. You know, I have kids and I would never let them go somewhere and just scream at the top of their lungs. But when you're drinking
and you're not paying attention and you want to be there having fun, then yeah, they go off and do their own thing. it's not bothering you. And so that's that's how that work. And as far as um health situation, in 2023 when we first found
out about this um to make this very, you know, personal here, my wife um we first found out about this in I think this March of 2023, I in April 2023, I came out with my daughter said that she my wife was fall on the ground. She had to bring in she
was in the hospital for 35 days in intensive care. came home and had to spend, you know, the next several months trying to recover. And our backyard has been our sanctuary. I go out there, I plant things in the backyard, try to make things nice and out there. You
can't use it anymore. It's like the concert. It's like you do not know when it's going to go out. And we're just getting into that time period where the other night open up the windows first time tonight, Friday night. You hear it. We're watching TV in the living room.
You hear their, you know, terrible cover bands um playing just get you an upset about the situation. >> Sounds like an issue of public health. >> Yeah. I just feel like I'm under a lot
of of stress. You know, I want to be out there starting to carve some wood. I want to go out there and do some quiet. Why is that the situation? >> Thank you. >> Anyone else from the public that would like to speak uh on anything? Uh, first
timer Steve, come on up. Steve Craig will pet road. Obviously, I want to talk about the animal shelter. Um, one of one of the more troublesome aspects of of an animal shelter is also concerned are they assessments. Um,
all it takes is somebody to to wait an adult. And we've seen this. We've seen us before and we've seen it dirty and we can't give us all the weight aggressive. Can't be managed. You can't be handy. And nobody wants to ever question that,
right? Dangerous. Who's going to stick their hand in that cage now? Who wants to adopt it? Who's going to do anything with them? Who's going to literally question the person that they're all dangerous? And we've seen that as a defense in the dangers. They need to
kill 300 of them a year. Dangerous. What this opens up to is a way to it's it's it's just right for corruption in every sense of be used to kill dogs that they don't like. They don't want to be bothered.
That's the It's also used to control people. the person that dress them up your only father whether that's
an employee or a volunteer or even a potential adoptive business and there's no control over that because who wants the question I do and I'm going to keep doing this we've seen it some of you have picked up
on the tail end of it or frequently was there to bring the investigation Patty Shutty, you were there to see the remnants of that. You questioned somebody, why has this dog been labeled aggressive for years? Nobody can answer. And still, you couldn't get rid of that lady.
We saw it with Hercules. The trainer just didn't want to be bothered. The dog starving, 20 pounds underweight, growled when she took his food away. Growl. That's it. Dought that.
He went to the vet two days later, got a bath, no problems. He kept that table. Nobody let him out. Two more years. Muscle atrophy for being in there for so long still. About a year ago, I'd say 13 months now.
That same trainer, you know, was frankly afraid of most of the dogs and didn't want to bother read question. I was allowed to take him out with staff on two leashes out three times and just five different people in
the yard. We had zero issues. This is not me handling the dogs. I was literally going walk the next zero issue. I tried for actually years but I forwarded you all in December thread has
been on for seven months and we get the person signing the label to these dogs make the plain language statement how that dog meets the definition of the label they gave them and they have a definition for that dog.
I got to run around. I got wave. I got yes, I got no. I got no answer. this dog. I will say flat out, the only reason this dog is still labeled red dragon cuz I said he shouldn't.
I stand by that. This dog has not been out of his cage before Thanksgiving because he likes the leash. And I've been up here before to say that that does not fit their definition. Um, give you a definition. A red dot may
have a cluster a cluster of serious issues or an extreme issue but you will pick either of those. That's why they don't answer my question. Why? How does he fit this definition? because he's
so much longer going to jail this fellow until he actually creates a behavior problem that can't happen because they don't want to change them up and >> just a quick question. >> Um
we have not for you Steve you're you're good uh so we have implemented a process where we're documenting where uh we have multiple people on a committee that are um making the
determinations about the classifications of the animals. Um and a part of that is obviously for public protection. Um we have had incidents with dogs. Uh people were injured. Um
that said, we have a and this is something we didn't have at all prior to this administration and the reforms that have been implemented. We have a a trainer who comes in and is a part of that process. Correct.
So my question is do we have only one trainer or is do we have you know how sometimes we'll have multiple law firms or multiple engineering firms. Do we have only one trainer that we use or do we have multiple trainers? >> Thinking outside the box.
>> Great comment. >> So, we do an RFP for those services and we haven't had a whole lot of responses in past years. I don't know what the most recent one was, but we have a professional behavioral consultant that
does the evaluations and assigns whatever the category is for the animal based on those evaluations. And that's reviewed with the um director and with the health officer staff and with the
shelter manager. And even at the last health meeting, I think we talked a little bit about that that you know, I asked a question of when if a dog is labeled red, that means they can't be worked with um because of
a danger situation that that they exhibited in their evaluation, whatever it was. Um when did they get re-evaluated, right, to see and look again. And so I think they've worked that into their process.
They also have and in fact um I got an update since then of the 10 dogs at the board of health meeting that were categorized as red. One had been reclassified that was chunk and one had
been transferred to a rescue Dominic because that's what we try to do with the animals too so that they don't sit there and not get the attention. Um we also have the bark program that takes animals to try to rehab them and they
get evaluated after that. It's it's all with the purpose of to train them, get them to a point where they are adoptable or they could go to um another organization. Not all other organizations want dogs that have been
assessed red. And you know, again, by a professional, it's not just somebody randomly saying, you know, that I don't like the way that dog looked at me or sneered at me or whatever it was. So they do have reasons in the report that
I had. Um but I think um they what they've recently talked about based on the board of health meeting is doing additional training with the dogs so that they it's a possibility to get them into a
different category so that and and also train some of our volunteers to be able to work with the dogs as well and be able to walk them so that they can. And so whether it's accompanied or with two leashes or whatever the case may be
because we want to make sure that the the volunteers who want to do that, right, and are capable of doing that are trained in order to do that as well. So I think we're trying to address some of that. I'm not going to say it's a perfect uh process at this point, but um
you know, I don't think we've been doing some of these changes long enough to see whether they're helping or or working. And again, remember, we're at over maximum capacity and have been for quite some time. And while that's no excuse,
you're going to have more dogs that are end up being um possibly getting less attention than they could if there was only half the capacity there. Um or you know that they're again we're going to have more
that are labeled red just because of the sheer numbers that we have. So, >> didn't we also at the uh board of health meeting, didn't they say they were going to break down uh further break down the classifications of dogs to try and get more dogs out? Have they started that yet?
>> Uh I don't I they did and I don't have that information right in front of me, but they created like a >> subsection, >> a light green or a light red or a pink or whatever it was. I don't know. Steve might know better than I do, but they did add a couple more classifications
that were kind of in between those. So that it was it wasn't secure and I hadn't had a chance to really look at the parameters of that to see is there much of a change is that going to help with some of this or not. But my my my question is and it's back
to the thought that Steve brought up and you know I've said it before to Steve I I commend him for the work and the time he puts into educating himself and sometimes educating us on on on the the dogs and and their labels. But what
bothers me is that so he he took this particular dog out with another handler from from the shelter, right? And they walked this dog and they had no issues, right? Whether he bites the leash or not, that doesn't fall under the
criteria. Okay? But that same dog went and got bathed, right? No issues. But yet he still read. I can understand. All right. There are just two instances where they didn't have an issue with it. But what has been done since then? The
person is would was with Steve that seen how the dog reacted and whether it behaved or was hard to handle or whatever would you think they'd put that in report, but make sure we get them out again. Right. It it's it's the part I I
can imagine being in a cage, right? And and nobody's letting me out. You know, I'm going to get pretty aggravated after a while. and I'll probably be curled up in a corner because uh athropy would set in and I wouldn't be able to move at my age. But you you you worry about some of
these dogs that are still classified red when they could possibly be moving towards another classification and we never get them answers. So, I think and and we have gotten some answers, but I I think again in situations like that, if
they do successfully get out, um you know, maybe they do it again and that with I don't know how many of those you take your pick. I'm not a professional on all of that, but it was my point the last time. Why can't we get them re-evaluated? Let's see if there is a
change from the time before, you know, um because again, you know, and and I respect everything that you do over there and the things that you say, but there are um documented issues with the dogs that are given that red status. So,
it's not we don't take it lightly. I know that the consultant doesn't um and so I but I think that the more that we could do that do the evaluations and get that done that you know may help that that they don't sit for so long at one
category especially if they have the ability to get better and progress. So >> any of my colleagues wish to comment further? No. Anyone else from the public wishing to
speak? Come on, Jennis. >> Hi. Um, somebody brought to my attention and they were all upset. I mean, with the new municipal building going up about why does the school board have to pay rent when it's a township building? I kind of thought well just for our
taxes we're paying for it and you know whoever you know the school board is part of the township and so there would be an income but they have to pay rent. Now is that money coming from the money that's supposed to go for books and teachers and stuff like that? I mean is
that cutting down on that? I mean I thought our taxes just were paid to this building no matter who's in it. >> School board is hard to capture. Your question is should the school board pay us rent to be in our building? >> Yeah. They were all upset that why are they moving out of the building they
have and they have to pay rent for the municipal building. We're independent of each other. The township is the township and the district is the Hamilton district. >> We're building the building at no expense to the school district. They're going to help us defay the cost of
building a brand new building that's ADA compliant that they don't currently have by paying us rent. So, that's the arrangement we've made to be able to afford this building and for the school district to pay their fair share. We're paying all the cost upfront. They're
going to help us defay that cost and pay the mortgage on that building over the next 10, 20, 30 years. And the money they're getting is from our taxes though for the school money. Right. Right. >> But the school taxes that's different from the township taxes. Yeah.
>> So as part of the school taxes is going for the rent and then they're not going to have as much money for the rest of the stuff in schools. Right. >> And right now they're in a building that's not ADA compliant. >> True. Well, the oldest school building >> I don't even know if it is. We have we
have a few very old school buildings. So, yeah, they're they're going to pay us rent. They're not helping us pay to build the building. That's how they're going to pay their share of the cost of building this new building that's going to be more accessible for all of our
residents and is going to better serve the residents. >> Okay? I mean, paying taxes is paying taxes, the whole thing, but I would try to explain it to them because they're a bit sent out of shape. if they didn't pay rent, it would just come out of the municipal taxes. So, the
municipal taxes would go up in order to pay for the new building. >> So, it's basically coming out of the left pocket and the right pocket to to cover the cost of the building. And the reasoning being as you mentioned that
both buildings, this one and that one that they're in and they have two other buildings that they do lease currently that aren't they theirs that they own that they're going to end up consolidating administration over there. Um they're over 100 years old and
they're not compliant with ADA. They're not able to serve the public the way that they need to be and including the municipality as well. Janice, I'll also add that um I think we have a strong working relationship with the school administration right now. And
I I don't think it's, you know, um it's not going to be like uh a really egregious rent that we're charging them of some sort. It's going to be we're working with them um to have something that's going to be reasonable. Um and also it's it's a convenience for the
residents. It's one one place, one location where you could, you know, you can go for a schoolboard meeting or you could um get your inspections done. So, everything's going to there's a convenience to that. Um having it all at one location. Um it's also modernizing
their spaces that they currently are in. Um and also addressing our needs here. Um so, I think overall it's it's a win-win. We're working together and it's a cooperation. Um, and you know, we're really cooperatively working with them
to see this project through. Um, so yeah, I think it's a it's a win-win for the community. >> And we're we're also giving them this property, which they're going to use to create a new school eventually is my understanding of how they're going to use this property. So, we didn't charge
them for this for this land that we're we're on right now. We're giving this to the school district. So, they're getting this for free. >> Okay. I mean, this person was sent out of paper. I just thought our taxes pay for everything. You know, I part of school taxes and part of the other taxes and
>> I just, you know, >> school taxes the bulk of it. >> You're you're welcome to bring your friend with you next time. >> Be happy to talk about >> Okay. All right. Okay. All right. >> Here's here's the way I look at it, Janice. We had two entities, right? The
school district and the municipality. We both had hundred-year-old buildings that needed to be replaced. So, because of the cooperation that Councilman Caribelli talked about, instead of having to build two buildings that the taxpayers would have to pay for, we're
only building one. The way that we're doing this is saving the taxpayers money. >> I mean, I know new building was out. We have one one big hopefully wonderful meeting room on the first floor. Okay.
and uh very will be great, you know, and so uh you know because I I didn't even think about okay taxes and part of it taxes and part of it taxes and I just thought it was all big one file and everybody okay
hopefully okay and as for these gentlemen here maybe I don't know if you could do it or not but I mean you could take a new vote and move the decibel pull down from 55 to lower and say that the new microphones now are so much more
powerful than when you first made this rule that the volume is way far louder than what it was that used to be at 55 and drop it down. Maybe that would help some things. >> We were going to take a vote to send you over there to handle it instead.
>> Oh, okay. All righty. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else? Alan, you want to come up? Sorry. Um I need to comment on what you just said and um the last 50 years I've been
a um animal protection shelter volunteer and I'm also a New Jersey state animal investigator and just from the times I heard Steve speak I'm sorry but my assessment of this animal is going on with that shelter and um a dog biting a
leash is not aggressive. It's a blast. It can behavior can be changed in one to two weeks a month and what's happened here and I can't get involved if I get too emotional. So kudos to this man who tolerates say I I can't. So anyway,
what's happening there and that dog is not aggressive and didn't happen. Also, my guy went out when they went to Detective Opera. Um, because he was the two uniform cops came out, told the people they shouldn't keep doing what they're doing. For some reason, the
detective was assigned to the case. He came out, I found out some cheap lipstick, and said there was no problem. There's no illegal dumping. And so not only was he not helping the detriment, then he stopped collect by saying, and I want to know if this is correct, that the only way the dumping
could the dumping could be removed from the area is going through my property or or you have to get the allowance for somebody else. Which number 26 allowance? Why these two people admitted that we were dumping? Why didn't they go to their property?
>> Admitted to who? >> To the first police officer. I can't remember his name. And then they admit it to the second police officer. They someone's work to be able to go to their property to take the dumping that they admitted that they had done and one is
probably still doing. Why is it they have to come through my property before they have to arrest Diane at number 26 allow it and I was nothing's going to get done again. It's just false false. So I had no state in the police department. Oh then when he came out Dr.
I mean, Detective Anosi or something called me. I said, "Yes, if you come alone, don't come on the uniform officer." Well, he came executive hair came the whole uniform went out. I was talked to that guy. The guy came back yelling at me and everything. And then he was so disrespectful when he left. He
was like, "Look here." I'm like, "I have no faith in the police department." So, that's all I got to say. And somehow they got to be able to go through their property to pick up the stuff that they've been dumping. Anyone else from the public uh would like to
speak? You can come back up. Um again, 37 acres. Just two quick things I wanted to ask if um so right now you guys said before one of the other
meetings that you know when we have a problem we should have still called the police but um the times that we call inconsistent responses from them I remember the one officer that came into that he said that
if you come out while the sound was still going on and so I called in time for him to do that he went to the brewery and he was under the impression if he could have heard from him. Um, you know, for him sometimes they talk about that whole just wanted some
information about should we should we still be contacting the regular police department. Um yes, >> in the beginning when we had the meeting with Freddy back in August there and he said that he had been part of the um investigation of the manner um
I guess >> and they citation. So, you know, we call it always seems like we're kind of on the defensive as opposed to gun in our side and brewery. >> Well, you feel on the defensive with who?
>> The police department with the police. It's not like they just don't seem like they're fully brief on what they're what they're doing >> when they come out. Yeah. When they're >> they'll say, "Oh, it's a bar." And they're allowed to play music and
they're allowed to do this. We're like, well, you know, we don't think it's a bar. It's supposed to be a, you know, brewery with background music and, you know, we're hearing it all throughout the neighborhood. So, a lot of times we feel like we're not really
>> Well, to be fair to the police, right? Uh, they're not necessarily going to have all the zoning ins and outs, uh, top of mind, uh, when they're responding. Um, sometimes the response is going to be uh depend on, you know,
what else is going on in the township that night. There might be other matters that they're tending to if if uh if that's one of one of the the concerns, you know, um is response time. uh you know so I I think um it's
yes if there's an active situation an ongoing situation call the police also call the township do both you know continue to let us know
because um I know this has been an ongoing issue for your neighborhood uh we do want to get it resolved. I was hopeful uh that we would have had a better outcome than
we've had at this point because it's not like we haven't taken action. We have taken action. We've had a lot of officials go out. Um and so, you know, now we're going to have to see what more we can do. And I'm not sitting
here with a course of action planned out based on this meeting tonight, but I can tell you there's more that we're going to do. Um, so >> yeah, they they've definitely I've never had an issue with taking long time for them to show up as a student that I know
information that we discuss here that they kind of know what's going on. A lot of times it seems like they feel like we're just bothering, you know, this operation and that's not what we're trying to do. We're trying to
rob Um and then the other question I was going to ask was um what's the best way for us to get information about you know the updates on should we come to the next meeting and just ask for an update on that is there way
>> you're always welcome at our meetings uh you're always welcome to give any I'm sure not to speak for everyone but any one of us would be happy to talk to you uh you know um if if uh you reach out to us directly
Um, you have our emails, you have our phones, and you have the administration's contact information. >> I'm I'm happy to give you regular updates as we get any information and and again, especially once we have some action items coming out of here, right?
So, just make sure that you leave your contact. I think, you know, if you want to do your cell phones, it's fine. If you'd rather not be bothered that way, then email would be okay, too. you just tell me your preference and give me, you know, whoever you want from your neighborhood, whether it's all group, whether it's you three, I'm fine with
that, too. >> Can you leave your uh contact information uh with the clerk, please? Uh you don't have to announce it >> uh on the microphone or anything, but can you please leave it uh so that we know how to get in touch with you? You I'm sure you know how to get in touch with me. So,
>> you know, we wouldn't be dealing with all this if they would just turn the microphone down, >> right? >> Mhm. It's not that hard. It shouldn't be that hard. >> When we when we have problems at Veterans Park with the radio or the PA system, it's turned down right
>> now. It is. >> It took a little while to solve that problem. >> This has been going on a little while. >> Somebody who always wanted to turn that knob back up. Somebody would turn it down. Somebody would turn it back up. >> Well, maybe a good song came on the radio. >> But this is this is getting to the point
where it's uh it's becoming a nuisance, right? regardless of what the the definition is given or not given, it's affecting people's lives and that's not fair, >> right? >> Anybody else from the public wishing? Steve, come on up.
Steve, please. The professional evaluator we hired while working at another shelter tried to concoct a scheme where they would have a sign a contract to take animals
out and have them be used up to avoid any uh friends of the animals having any problems and then going forward not allow those animals that have any friends to object to anything they wanted to do going forward.
That's not the the type of evaluator. That's not the type of credibility I'm going to put on the patient. It's not the type of transparency we want in our shelter having come this far. So I'll be there that
the reason one of the reasons we are capacity is how it's not just the red one. It's the yellows and the blue. The stake dollar we're given spoke to the label to evaluate to the central doctors.
We only need about $100 a year or shelter about 80 to 90s that 200 or more regarding the
the committee to adjudge these evaluations. It's a great idea except that they're all in the same uh vertical reporting structure. Who's going to question it? Again, who's going to question it? Because we know anybody
that objects and raises an issue like that becomes the target of retaliation and stand by that statement. Um I will give you one last example here. Maverick has been in the shelter about two and a half years.
He came in as about a six to eight month old company. The trainer at the time didn't want to work with him. I've walked him for the past 2 and 1/2 years. I've introduced him to staff along the way and they have walked him three of those people are no
longer there. In the past since last July, I've walked him once or twice a week when I can. Other than that, you might have gotten out three times by shelter staff. The difference between a red dog and a yellow dog means red all
the shelter staff are walking. Yellow means I can't. So a few weeks ago, Maverick who I walked and the staff has no yellow to red, which means effectively the one person who has walked me no longer can. And the only
people that can are the people who don't. So to say that they're working on some program to train people to walk these dogs out doesn't carry a lot of walking I mean you not that BT does not
have issues became a puppy social impulse not a bite mark on me for two and a half years but suddenly I can't there are effectively two yellow volunteers
being one other person another version comes very now and focuses on the one project I see. So we're really talking about and I basically walk these dogs I'm talking about I've already shown a 10.
So where is this objective reasoning and this re-evaluation of we're trying to move these dogs out. Maverick shows we're going backwards. Merlin shows we're going backwards. I'm not here saying them 10 dogs. These
two lock three dogs. I tell you, I can take these dogs out with zero conditions. I've been doing it for 15 years. >> Why was Maverick moved from Is there an evaluation why he was moved from yellow to red? >> There's it wasn't a whole evaluation. He
was taken out and it and this is um he was out for a while. um he jumped up and grabbed in front of the attending shirt. And that is that is not a new behavior for him. That is actually a lesser behavior that he started. Like I said, he came in as a puppy. He sat there for
months cuz the trainer didn't want to touch him. And like I said, I get him out once a week, twice a week now this year. So he he has some impulse control. That's it. He went from not being able to cross the
street because he was too afraid to go forward and too afraid to go back. So, he just standing there at the intersection in front of public breaks for a while. Now he's just jumping up and grabbing somebody shirt. That's not new. >> Which dog is that? >> That um
so can you get us the report on that? >> I'll get you the behavior report on that. And again, in their recent assessments of how to better help the red dogs, they've sort of tried to identify some of the
red dogs that could benefit from external training, whether that's bark or some some other training. So, that's a possibility for Maverick, and that's something they just recently sent us. Maverick's not the only one. There's a few others that >> Okay. they said because of their
evaluation. So again, I don't know the specifics about when Mavericks has been evaluated or re-evaluated and I think that that would be important to know. >> This this last he turned red was March 6 >> this year. If the issue is,
well, I guess the real issue is, is him getting out west going to help him? Because that's effectively what happened. And if the only people that can take him out out now are the people who can't or will because the shelter and he's going to stop the one person who's been taken out, how does that
help? >> So, I know we're out of time. Um, but what I I I did like what Councilman Pie said about having an alternate set of eyes looking in or her. >> I think it was a good suggestion and we don't have one uh outside counsel for
one thing or outside vendor, right? We have other options. I don't think it'll be I know getting a second person might be a problem, but I think that we maybe should at least explore that. Okay. to try and not only give that dog but just a fair shot to everybody.
>> Got it. >> Thanks, Steve. >> Anyone else from the public uh wishing to come up for a first or second time? >> All right, seeing none, we'll turn to council comments. Uh who'd like to start off? >> I'll make it quick.
I always say I'll make it quick and I end up talking too long. Um, first off, I appreciate everybody coming out tonight. We had some good discussions from the neighbors over East Acres, right? I got it right. You know, regarding Ben Iron Brewery and hopefully we can get some answers um to satisfy
the residents out there. Um, same thing with uh Allen. Hopefully we could get some answers, a little more clarification on what's going on behind that property over there, the township owns. Um, Steve, I I always appreciate
your input and um, you know, and your desire to help these dogs and and try to move them, especially in the different statuses and and, you know, constantly paying attention to what's going on over there. And, um, with that, I, you know,
we've had some nice weather. Of course, it got cold again. And it seems like all it does is the wind blows around here constantly anymore. It drives me nuts. I wish it was blowing out when I was playing baseball. It would have helped me a little. Um >> Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, keep the room
comfortable. Um but um you know, the weather's going to change and uh and you know, people are going to get outside more and and and enjoy our our parks and our our different facilities um whether it's Sang Gardens or Cruiser Park or or
Veterans Park for that matter. So enjoy the beauty of uh spring and um hope everybody has a safe and uh pleasant evening and then we'll see you at the next meeting. Thank you. I'll just be really brief. Uh thank you for coming out this evening. I appreciate the
comments. Um hopefully we can alleviate some of that mediation concerns uh with the East Acres neighborhood. Um and uh I just wanted to say if you enjoyed us tonight, you can come out tomorrow night for our last budget
meeting. Um so we're going to be same place uh different time. We're at 5:00 tomorrow night, 6:00 tomorrow night. So uh it's our last budget review meeting uh going meeting with the directors of various departments. So
>> it's exciting. >> Thank you. So, uh, looking forward to the conclusion of our budget meetings tomorrow. Uh, I'd like to thank everybody who came out tonight. Um, I know it's frustrating. Uh, sometimes
things don't happen as quickly as we want them to. Uh, it doesn't mean that nothing's happening. It doesn't mean that we're not working. We are working, uh, to address the issues that are raised by all our residents. Um, and we
do want to see uh like the the situation with the brewery come to a satisfactory conclusion. Uh, same with the dumping. Um, and the, you know, shelter is something that we've been working on for
a long time. Steve, you're a volunteer who has put in many, many hours helping the animals there. and and you know I just uh want to echo the sentiments of my colleagues uh that I I appreciate the work that you're doing. Uh I I do have
faith in our in our professionals there. Um I think we do have more work to do and that's always true. It's it's a difficult mission there. Um but we want to make sure that that um the animals are being treated as well as we can
treat them uh under those difficult circumstances. It's never uh a good day uh when a dog winds up in the shelter or a cat. Um so uh one final note, April
22nd is Earth Day. Uh there will be a township stream cleanup on April 11th. Uh, it's early. Uh, April 11th. Do you know what time it kicks off? 8 am. It's pretty. >> You put me on the spot. No, I don't know. >> All right.
>> I'm hoping to get out there. >> It's on our township website what time it starts and it it's 8 a.m. kickoff. >> Yeah. So, 8 a.m. kickoff uh at Ker Park and then everybody's going to fan out uh to different areas uh as part of the
cleanup. uh any volunteers who want to join us. Uh that's this Saturday. >> A lot going on this Saturday. You got opening days sunny brain 9 a.m. clean up day >> 8 8:30 a.m. until noon at cruiser park. >> Yeah. Kicks off at cruiser. I think they
serve lunch at the end. So >> So anybody who wants to uh volunteer >> 8 a.m. 8 a.m. till noon. I apologize. >> 8 am till noon uh on Saturday kicking off at Kiser Park. Uh but otherwise uh I'm glad to see you all. Hope to see you
um under better circumstances in the future. And that's all I have. >> Okay. Thank you. Um and I want to reiterate everything that everyone said, but of course, um I also appreciate you coming here, taking time out of your schedule on a Tuesday evening. We know
it's a sacrifice for you to come out, but so important for us to know exactly what you know, Ellen likes remember very clearly when you came to us before um with the illegal dumping. So, we'll definitely be following up on that and Ben iron um and Steve again, thank you for all of your efforts and educating
us, especially like Councilman Whan had said. Um so, I just want to thank you. I did also want to I'll add to April 11th, we also have the autism awareness event at the police station. Um, it's going to include interactions with the police.
Safety Town will be open. I say, um, if you're not familiar, Mr. Ray is a children's entertainer who will be entertaining everyone at the same time. So, it sounds like a really great event between um, the police department um, and our community. So, I just wanted And
then we also have Arbor Day coming up where we're going to be planting a tree at one of the schools um, and doing another poster contest with them as well. So, just to keep you guys up to date and again, we'll be here tomorrow night at 6 if you want to join us again. Otherwise, have a good night.
>> Part of being um the best part of being part of the best team is not having much left to say. So, um it's part of the reason I love all you guys. Uh you make this easy for me. Uh just want to announce the uh opening days also for um
I wrote down the times. I believe it's 9:15 is uh Sunnybrite, 10 a.m. is Nottingham. Um, two good uh two good leagues that I'm sure we'll all get out to. Um,
appreciate the uh opinions of everybody and the ideas and the you know, all the all the hard work that everybody puts into this agenda and to solving the community's problems. Um, we're not there, but we're going to get there, right? We're not the illegal dumping and
the being bad neighbors is not going to be tolerated. Uh we're going to get to work on this tomorrow. Uh if I know anything, I know our business administrator probably took about six pages of notes tonight. So uh I'm pretty sure that um she's already fired off
some emails as well. Uh we'll be back here tomorrow. Uh please join us. Um the worst part about the budget hearings being over is I don't get to see you guys all the time. So it's a double-edged sword, right? or the candy >> or the candy. This is true. So, we appreciate everything. Everybody get
home safe and uh have a good night. Thank you.