[laughter] We're waiting for you. >> I call the regular council meeting of Tuesday, January 20th of the Hamilton Township Council to order. This meeting is being held with the meeting with the benefit of public notice as required by the Open Public Meeting Act. Madame
clerk, please call the role. Mr. Barelli >> here. Mr. >> Whan here. >> Phillips here. Mr. >> Here is >> Ladies and gentlemen, please rise and join us in the salute to the flag and remain standing for the invocation
to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Dear God, we humbly acknowledge our need for your presence and your guidance. As we face the challenges and
opportunities, help us place our faith fully in you and seek your will in all that we do. Guide, all of us, all of us who are in elected offices seek measures that bring our communities and world together rather than tear us apart. Let ego and pride never prevent us from doing what is good or just. We offer
these intentions in your holy name. Amen. Amen. Okay, Madame Clerk, if you'd like to begin with the agenda. >> Uh, we can do the changes first. >> Uh, you're right. We do have uh two changes. I apologize. Uh, there's been
an amendment to the agenda tonight since it was posted on the website. Uh, changes to consent agenda item 26035. Uh, the prior transfer was 10,000 and we had to add public works department uh
20,000. So the the total will be 30,000. And consent agenda item number two, 26036, uh resolution adopting a cash management plan for the township. Uh the previous said the amendment uh was it was just a spelling error, so we corrected those.
Uh can I have a motion uh for the amendments, please? >> I'll make a motion. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> I'll make a motion to make those changes to the agenda. >> I'll second it. >> On the motion, Mr. Carell. >> Yes. >> Mr. When? >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes.
>> Next we have a discussion item of Miss Pearland assistant to discuss reimprove grant for event renovations for the requirements of the application. >> Hello. Am I good? >> Is it good now?
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So, hi everybody. Thanks for letting me come tonight. Um, we're applying for, we want to apply for a Green Acres Park development grant. The new requirements for Green Acres require that we have a public hearer prior to
submitting the application. So, that's what this discussion tonight is. We are proposing applying for a project to upgrade our existing basketball courts in all of the pocket parks. So it's
Cornell Heights, Brammley, um, Endicott, Limewood, Farmingdale, the one that's right back here, Perry Wesgull, and Snell Wilkus. Um, this particular grant only covers 25% of it. So it's $100,000 was our quote. The town
would certify um 75,000 of it. This grant would cover 25,000. And we're pursuing other opportunities to cover the 75,000 with other grants as well. Okay. Okay, any questions or we can allow anybody that's here to ask
questions? >> Council President, can I um so Joy couple things on if we get approval for this when do you think we can initiate the project? >> So it would be this year. They normally um they norm so the applications are due by
February no March and then they usually approve it within the next quarter and then we can start immediately as long as we get another grant or we want to pay for the other stuff on our own >> and and and the program includes um for 100,000 or we obviously basketball rims,
basketball hoops, uh backboards and I guess um also new It would have replaced the quartz surface or put it like a >> so where needed the grant would cover that. It would depend on the specific park though. Some of them need it more than others. So it would cover all of
that wherever we wanted to spend the money at each individual. >> Okay. And that the remaining money would come from uh capital Kathy the 75. you can do it from capital and but our hope is that we're going to apply for
another LRIG grant which we've is geared towards recreation. So we're hoping that and we've had some luck with those in the past >> okay >> through our grants program and and um especially with Joy working with them on all of that. So, if we get to 75, great.
If we don't, we can put it in for the capital. And again, you would approve that or not. If we got to the point where we said we don't want to spend 75,000 on that, you know, you could always say no. But I have a feeling that it's one that that you all would like to support. And this is a um a project I
think that we did thoughtfully so that we could make sure that we're putting grant monies and other monies and resources to the recreation in the township. >> Um I just want to say I'm really excited about it. Um I think it's a great project. I read through all the all the
information that was provided and uh thank you for coming in today. Sure. >> Only question I have is is this something that we would be paying for and then the grant would kind of be reimbursing us for where obviously could start be prior to getting the money.
>> Well, we don't usually like to start before you get the approval of the grant because they don't always approve of the whole project, right? So, we may end up having to alter the project. Not probably not for this one. So we might be able to consider doing that
especially since we have a big match to that. Um but I believe it is on a re is it a reimbursement >> reimbursement loan? Yeah. So >> so they might not um view the stuff that happens before approval as eligible for grant um the whole grant project and
reimbursement. So we have to be we have to kind of balance that. >> So we can't start anyway right right now because the weather the way it is right. >> When are we submitting uh the grant? It's due. Um we have to do one more um council meeting where we have to get approval to apply and then they usually
pick like April or so. That's when they usually >> to approve it. >> They do the awards in in April >> and then we'd be able when would we be able to start? >> As soon as they do the awards, there's nothing stopping us from starting. We just can't submit anything that has a date prior to that. >> Right. So we have to we have to time the
funding for the match as well. So, and again, but we could commit to the project even before we hear about the match grant because again, if we commit to the project, we're committing the funds regardless of how we get them, whether it's through capital or whether
it's through another grant. >> I can't speak for everybody, but speaking for myself, it's something, you know, with the size of the town, the importance of the project, and in the grand scheme of things, uh it's not the most expensive thing that we're going to approve. I would like to u get started
with at least the planning part of it and start moving so this way when it is approved we're ready to go. >> Yeah. Yeah. We're going to have the company that did the quotes come back out and just review it again and make sure nothing's changed. So we do want to move forward with that. >> And when will you have the resolution to
have this council approve going make an application? >> The next council meeting. >> At the next one. So we're already taking action. >> Oh, I'm sorry. It might be the second one because we have to publicly advertise it, right? So there's all kinds of >> requirements for the grant. But at that time, so whether it's the next council
meeting or the one after that, the second one in >> so by February 10th, we should be good >> or the May it may be the second meeting in February, which I think it's 20th or so, but um doing it at the second meeting in February, then we're
committing to applying for the grant and finding the match one way or the other. So you're basically saying this project is going to be a go and that's of course if we get the grant and if we don't then you can consider doing the project or not anyway and you can look for other
ways of funding as well. >> You usually when you apply for these grants now naturally you won't know until April. I I hear they usually do the awards on Earth Day. Mhm. >> Um >> yeah. >> What's the time frame that you have to use that grant or get a project started
before you lose that grant? Is there a time period? >> There is a time period. Um they are pretty good about giving extensions when needed. For a project like this, I don't think we would need an extension because this is pretty basic. >> Well, my question is, and I don't know if you're familiar with this other
project, but it's a skate park. >> Yeah. >> Okay. that we we got a grant for, >> but nothing started on that. So, are we going to lose that grant? Have to reapply? >> We're not going to lose that grant. We we keep up with the dates and the deadlines and we ask for extensions as needed.
>> Okay. When is that starting? >> The This is the lights at the skate park, correct? I don't know. I have to ask Chuck about that. >> Yeah. Okay. I've been trying to keep it. >> I know we've gotten some quotes and we've had some people out. I don't know the hold up on that. >> Okay. But we haven't had to lose grant
money on anything. So, we are very serious about that. We would never we don't want to go for grants if we're not going to be able to do the project and get it done. So, um we just recently had to uh turn one away, but that was because we couldn't fulfill the one side
of the requirement on it and not for lack of, you know, but it wasn't a project like this. [clears throat] It was something completely different. Just from a uh getting back to the uh basketball courts from a timing perspective um if we we approve this in
our next our we'll meet at our next meeting. It's got to take you said uh resolution and two >> No, this is the first public hearing that we have to advertise. So I think it's the February 10th. Is that the date of a meeting? That's the meeting that we would that you would approve us applying
for it. >> Wait, it was the 10th and the 24th. Okay. So, um, and also if we were going to kick in that 75% through capital, we would then approve that come our you
typically that's in April anyway. So hopefully we know right around then if we're going to be awarded the grant anyway. Um, and and simultaneously are we also going to pursue this other what was the other grant avenue that you said for the match? the Elrig.
>> So on the February 10th meeting, we're going to ask you to approve us to apply for the Elrig grant as well. >> Oh, beautiful. All right. All right. That's excellent. Thank you. >> Do do we need to open this up for public comment? >> Y questions. >> Is there any questions from anyone in
the public uh regarding uh this discussion for the basketball courts? Seeing none, I'll take a motion. >> I'll make a motion. Council President, >> you don't have a motion. That's right. Okay. >> Consideration. We have the minutes of
October 21st, 2025 and November 10th, 2025 regular meeting minutes. >> I'll make I'll make a motion, council president, to move on M1 and M2. >> I'll second. >> Motion, Mr. Parabell. >> Yes. Mr. Allen. >> Yes. Phillips. >> Yes. Mr.
>> Yes. 4 Z. Next for consideration, we have communication item C1 joint um C1 has two [clears throat] two proclamations. One recognizing January as human trafficking month and honoring General Steven
on the 250th anniversary of the United States of America. Uh Girl Scouts of Central and Southern New Jersey work special missions for cooking food sales at various approved days and locations through the month of January, February, and March. and final request permission
for tagging solicitation for Hamilton Girl softball 12 view Hurricane at Molden located at 29 road on Sunday January 24th and Sunday February 22nd for consideration
>> take a motion I'll make a motion we move on uh communication C1 2 and three >> I'll second Mr. Caribell >> yes Mr. Yes. >> Yes. >> Next consideration, we have consent
[clears throat] agenda items CA1 CA3 with the exception of the removals of CA9 and CA12 for your consideration. >> Okay. So, just to give a brief summary uh for our consent agenda items, uh we have a budget transfer which we
spoke about uh prior to starting. Uh we have an extension of a contract with the Wilson Center. We have professional service agreements uh for planning services, accounting and auditing, veterary services,
bond council and engineering services. Uh we also have the lease of uh final year of the lease of a land uh for three separate properties. Uh we have various refunds uh for residents from the town and uh probably
my favorite one that's been on here uh is number 32 uh appointing our favorite and our very own Allison Sabbo as the municipal clerk. [laughter] Any questions, comments from council? I'm sure people are going to want to
comment on number 32. [screaming] What do you think about that one? >> Um, just real fast, council president, CA uh CA8, we're rejecting them. Um, was it because I know it mentioned the scope was was it
something that was just incorrect in the >> Yep. We're going to go back out to bed for that, right? >> That's correct. Yes. What was initially sent out for bid was incorrect. >> Okay. >> So, we just it needs to be corrected and then >> Okay. Excellent. That's perfect. Just wanted to clarify.
See you later. >> Anybody else? >> I'm excited about CA32. >> Yeah, >> I kind of like her. [laughter] I reserve my comments for the end. Any members of the public wishing to
comment on any of the consent agenda items? Uh, please come forward. Yes, ma'am. I was worried about you. I didn't see you when the meeting started. I did ask where you were. >> Yeah, he did. >> Well, was I I got a little late start
and it was a little icy and so take it easy. >> So, um >> we tried to wait. We did delay the meeting a couple months. >> Oh, [laughter] yes. We cuz my sister says, "What are you going for? It's so cold." I said, "Don't panic." He said, "Don't panic." I said, "Don't [laughter] panic.
>> We don't see you. We worry." Yeah. >> Okay. Disc 432 Trinity Avenue, Cornell Heights. And I just want to say um on CA32, I think she does an outstanding job. So rehire her. She's [laughter] great.
>> Anybody else from the public would like to comment on the consent agenda items? >> Seeing none. Seeing none, council president, I'll make a motion to close the public comment segment and move on consent agenda item CA1 through CA3.
>> I'll second that. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Congratulations. >> For your consideration, we have ordinance 126004. to an ordinance adopting a redevelopment
plan for a non-conservation area in need of redevelopment and redevelopment pursuant to NJSA48 12A-1 325 Avenue lot 1503 lot 15.01 01 first reading and introduction. Can >> I have a motion?
>> I'll make a motion on first reading of uh ordinance 260001. >> I'll second. >> Just hold on. 004. >> Four. >> Did I say four or six? >> 04. >> Did I say >> You said four. >> You said one. [laughter] >> It's getting old.
>> Okay. Just making sure the record is correct. >> 260004. >> Thank you, sir. >> And I'll second. >> On the motion, Mr. Carabell. >> Yes. >> Mr. Whan. >> Yes. Phillips. >> Yes. >> Mr. Pero. >> Yes. >> 40. >> Resolution 126-7
is a resolution redevelopment plan for Sloan Avenue lot 163 lot 16.01 a non-compensation area need of redevelopment plan board or to review recommendations and to confirm with master plan.
>> Any questions or comments from council on resolution 12607? >> Yes sir. Anyone from the public wishing to comment on resolution 126067, please come forward.
>> Yes, ma'am. [snorts] >> Client 432 Cornell Heights. Where is this and what is it? >> Uh, this is the >> AMC theater. >> Uh, the theater area. >> Yes, ma'am. Oh, so making it into the hospital.
>> This is referring it to the planning board. >> Oh, okay. >> So, we're going to uh hear that at a future planning meeting and then it'll be sent back to us. >> Okay. And did that coincides with the the first reading of the resolution above it? >> Yes, it does. Yes, it does coincide.
Okay. Okay. I just thought something else strange was going up like another warehouse. >> Nothing strange. >> Let me find out. [laughter] >> Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. Anyone else from the public wishing to comment?
Seeing none. >> Seeing none, council president, I look to move um uh resolution uh 126-067. >> I'll second it. >> On the motion, Mr. Paravelli.
>> Yes. Mr. Mr. Yes. Mr. Yes. Okay, first up on the list, Miss Carella. >> Hi, Juliana Carella. Um, I don't know what I'm supposed to do, but I want to talk about the ordinance 215-11
about township sponsored community events. Um, on box C it says, >> What number is this? I'm sorry. >> 215-11. Where where is this from? >> Um the I don't know the township ordinances online. >> Okay.
>> Okay. I thought it was on the agenda tonight. Sorry. >> Okay. Good. I'm sorry. >> Um the township sponsored indoor events in like Box C. It says that um I guess like small businesses can host community events for $200 at say an in Grafton House only. And I was hoping that um the
Noddingham ballroom could be added to that. So, I just need to pull up the ordinance that we're talking about. >> You know what? This might be because we >> Do you have a copy of it? >> Yes, I do.
>> Did we re Yeah, we recently acquired >> Yeah, >> Ningham. It might not be upate. >> We didn't update that ordinance. We did update the ordinances at the time and I thought because and I can't remember exactly so don't hold me to this but I
believe that we may be determination because the Noddingham ballroom is much larger and the other two locations don't always have the same needs or whatever for uh events. And so I believe we considered it at the time
because we did do revisions to the [clears throat] ordinance to include um Nottingham Ballroom for many things including fees, but um whether we consider that fully. I mean we can go back and reconsider it. It would have to
be an ordinance change to our fees anyway if you wanted to consider that. So, >> so currently you cannot use Nottingham Ballroom for township sponsored community events. >> You can. You just have to pay the full price. >> It's different, right?
>> Which is $1,400 on a weekday and $1,600 on a weekend, I believe. >> Well, and again, I think it's just because of the size of the venues and the types of events that you would have in each one. >> And you're paying 200 at which
locations? The saying and right >> how does that compare with their normal teeth >> where 1400 to 200 >> no no at saying and grafting is different too they all have different so I don't know [clears throat] off top but
yeah >> and they get a special fee for that for certain designations of businesses and such >> so you're Juliana you're bringing to table tonight. You have an event that
you're looking to plan that's a little larger and you need a larger facility. >> Yes. And I'd like to use a township property. >> What are you uh are you allowed to tell us? >> Yeah. No, so I host sound bath meditations. Um it's just like you lay on the floor and I play this musical instrument. Everyone meditates and right
now I host them at my family's business, Kella Shoes, and they're doing really well. And I found some other venues that can host more people, but I do really well with these like free to the public sound baths. So, I thought that that would be a great community event, but I cannot afford $1,400 to rent the space.
A couple hundred I could do um and have an event like that. And then if this were to be allowed, I have a lot of other ideas as well, but that's my main first idea. >> Is there uh a possib I mean, we can look
into this. Is there a possibility to use the YMCA at a cheaper price than 14 or $1,600? because >> I I don't know. We don't get >> Yeah, you have to Yeah, you'd have to check with the Y, but the That's That's a great idea because they have most of your classes at night.
>> Yeah, I can do them anytime. Yeah. >> I mean, the Y has two facilities, right? >> They have uh the main one over on White Horse Avenue and then they have Sawmill, which is another open space gym. >> And then they have different um spaces
that are utilized at JKR on White Horse. That's right. They got the main gym and then they got different studios. They got a kids gym, too, which is unoccupied a lot also. So, um, you might want to >> No, I'll absolutely >> You might want to stop in at the Y and
talk to some people at the desk. Got, you know. >> Yeah. No, I'll absolutely look into that. I think part of my reasoning for the Nottingham Ballroom too was like I know you guys are trying to get more events there and I am an influencer on the internet and [laughter] so I'm like
I like Nancy follows me but I didn't want to lead with that but I just feel like I could bring a lot of attention to it and I mean obviously it would benefit other businesses as well to be able to host events at like a smaller rate but I just I feel like I could then help the township properties get the attention
that you guys are hoping for but not at $1,400. >> I Yeah. >> Okay. >> Where where did we hold our health fair when we had it? >> You remember at Partnership Health. >> Usually it's done by the um Mercy County
um health partnership. Yeah. Uh I forget the organization. >> Partnership health which is integrity health which is >> an organization that we deal with for our health needs or health insurance needs as well. So it was appropriate setting for them. They don't
>> So we don't hold anything at the township. I just fig she got touch of Chris and like coordinated with that. >> Yeah. Or or Kathy from recreation or even Lisa who does the scheduling for
the events at St. Rexton but and Carrie does the recreation. >> Yeah, I've been talking to Carrie Nod and him. Yeah. So >> yeah, I think she an email too with your request. Yeah, this is not the first time this has come up. The Red Cross also had reached out to us. They wanted to run um sorry, my mic was off. They
wanted to run a blood drive and they wanted to uh they were they were supposed to be charged the same amount and they said, you know, we can't can't afford 16 14 or 16 or whatever the dollar amount was. So, I think it's something that definitely is up for discussion
>> and I'm sure we'll be talking about it. >> Okay, great. >> Do you want do you want this back? >> No, you can have that. Um, am I allowed to bring up a second thing? >> Yeah, sure. >> Um, just Carella Shoes. We're planning our 80th anniversary party and I think it's going to be June 19th and June 20th. So, we're hoping however you guys
can get involved with that. We'd love to discuss in the future. >> Is that a Saturday, Sunday? >> What? >> Saturday, Sunday. >> Friday, Saturday. I think Friday is Junth. So, we're hoping that some people have off from work, too. But do a Friday, Saturday. They want to make it a big thing. They wanted to make it a week
long, and I said no. [laughter] Julia, >> you have two days. >> You'll let us know. >> Yes, I will let you guys know, but I just wanted to put that out there. >> Okay. Excellent. >> Thank you very much. >> All right. Thank you. >> Are they still brown shoes? >> Not anymore. [clears throat]
>> We have them there though in the back. >> I still have mine. >> I have mine. [laughter] >> I'm ready. I used to do the repairs right there. >> Yeah. >> That's right. Times changed. That's right. >> Oh, yeah. Anyone else from the public that didn't sign up that we should wishes to comment?
Okay, Steve. Steve Kle Wolfpack Road. As promised, I wanted to talk about money for animal control. Um, some of this you've heard before because I spoke about it a lot over the past couple years. We have four full-time ACOs.
We have one who for the majority of the past six years really did not do any animal control work. Um, mostly because they were signed as a vette. This animal control officer makes just shy of $86,000 a year base pay.
A vette, a high paid vette in this area would barely make half that much money. We've never advertised a position for a vette or anybody with vette skills, although I know personally many people have applied for animal
attendant positions who were vettees or had vette tech skills. So for all those years, we've been paying somebody twice as much um to do an animal control job that or to not do an animal control job while we complain
we don't have enough acos. Um, this [clears throat] past year or maybe about a year and a half after bringing this up, there's been a I'm going to say a token amount of animal control work done by this person. And by that I mean the last records I have for for October,
less than 2 hours of time. Um, so we're paying for that. Sorry, I lost my train of thought for a second. Um, the same amount of time for so for this past year for overtime for animal control
officers, there were just shy of 141 overtime hours or excuse me, 290 overtime hours, 140 were given to the person who does not do animal control. Of the 110 hours of double time,
>> how many hours double time? 110 98 were given to this person who does not do animal control. Again, we have all this money going out to an acco that
that overtime and double time starting this year was the shelter started to do events at the libraries. Um, it was staffed by the acco who's never available for acco never on the call list for the ACOS. Has never been out on
an after hours accomp double time Sunday to hang out at the library. They're there. That did stop when that issue was brought up here last year. However, all the other hours are now showing up as coming in early to walk dogs or clean
cat cages. an animal attendant job and on Sundays double time for this person is over $94 an hour. So again, we don't have it's not that we don't have enough ACOs. We apparently
have one extra and we're paying them to do everything but acco. This has all the marks of taxpayer money being given away as a personal favor. In addition to that, while we're paying an acco to do
an animal attendant work basically at $94 an hour, we're paying an animal attendant out of title, overtime, and double time to go be an acco. So all the discussions we have about watching the money for animal control
costs, when you view this, this is why I can't accept those responses. I can't think of a better example. I don't think I could make up a better example of mismanagement of people and resources and money than
what we have here. [laughter] >> Before council responds, I will just caution you that uh it could easily leak into personnel matters as far as performance and such. So I just caution you on [clears throat] what you say in response as no employees have been given
rice notes notices etc as they are required by law today. >> Are we allowed to ask you questions without commenting? >> Um you can ask the question. I don't know if I can answer the question. I'll put it that way. >> Can I can I just add one thing just based on that.
This isn't a a person you know this is not an issue with the ACOS or that particular ACOS. They don't make their own schedule. They don't make their own jobs. This is a management >> his comment more is on the management part and I know you we probably can't because that's another employee right
>> that's still employee >> y so I do have questions about the management whether you can answer or not uh very simple question if those if those uh all those statements are 100% accurate why is a non acco
nonacco work that would be my question >> and again without knowing the details details and the circumstances and things like that, right? Overall, a manager in any division, no matter what it is, is given discretion for assignments of
personnel. And so, I think the first thing I would look at is that if there's incidents where let's say an acco is doing x work like walking a dog or taking care of an an animal, right? Is
that within the scope of an acco's job description through the Civil Service Commission? And I would venture to say I think I remember enough about that job description because I'd looked at it a number of times and it would fall in there. So again, this would fall under
the discretion. It would be an issue if a manager was asking somebody to do something that was outside of their their scope of responsibilities or their job description. Yes. >> Okay. I'm not trying Let me know if I'm
going astray here. >> All right. >> Okay. >> I'll leave that to the >> But [laughter] why would you pay somebody at a higher rate on overtime, right, than you would to the person that makes that money, whether it's an acco
or an animal attendant. Why would you bring an acco into to work overtime when you could have the animal attendant do it at a lesser rate? So again, I don't know the >> I don't know either. But you know what I'm going to say is this. I've been sitting here for a few years and I've
heard the same stories constantly out of that shelter. Although it's a lot better than it used to be, but we still have ongoing issues. And I want to know is are you guys aware of this already? And are we investigating it? And are we
going to find out what the findings are? So look, >> because I got some questions too about personal uses of vehicles and when they're allowed to use the vehicles. >> Okay. >> And absolutely. Listen, and I think I I explained to you in a recent email that I said we take
any of these um complaints, for lack of a better term, or issues, right, that come to us, we take them all seriously and we if it's if it's necessary, we investigate every single one of them, right? Now, when it turns into something
that's a say a personnel issue or whatever, we don't always share that information. We can't share that information with others. we can share it with all of you. Turns out in an executive session or in where we've had to write notice an individual that may
be an issue, right? Um so we do take it very seriously. We look at every single one >> and um that's what I could say. But we also we don't know what these circumstances are. I don't know that a manager is bringing somebody in for
overtime and you know giving away their acco work to somebody else. I don't know that. It may appear from that on the papers but again without knowing the circumstances right we had recent time where we had several animal attendants
who were out and not in. So perhaps that was when an ACL and again I don't know. I'm happy to look at your data because I think it would be helpful and help frame any type of investigation that we would look at. And so we'd need to know that
we don't do this on a regular basis. Go investigate managers, but we do have a pretty good sense, right, if something's going on because um but we pretty much empower them to do their job. That's why they have that job as a supervisor or a
manager and they have to have some discretion with the operation and part of that discretion is giving workers their assignments for that day. Right? It happens in every division, not just this one. So you're in public works, you may be on a different crew
>> every other week, right? Because they have to move folks around. >> Maybe the person doesn't want to work overtime, so they still need to get something done. So they have somebody else in place, right? I get it, you know, >> and and overtime is one of the things too that again is regulated
um in the the contract under certain circumstances. So again, I don't know if this is one of those circumstances or not one of those circumstances. Clearly though, if we look and see and we've had, you know, again, not this division, but maybe another division where there may have been complaints
that, you know, I never get overtime and so and so gets overtime all the time. And so we look at that and we look at the patterns and we find out what were the circumstances of this assignment that day. Right? So that you know I can only tell you that we'll look into it
and I need the details you know in order to do that. >> Um and I can't promise that I can share everything with you after that. Clearly even if it turns out that something happens and it was not being done right. Right. If there's a disciplinary issue you're not going to hear about that.
Right. It's going to be that's all things that are um fall under confidential and um under personnel and management. So >> I think we're all we all would look like we're all looking for some form of explanation. Whatever it can be. Uh can we
>> I know we just planned the board of health meetings uh prior to this. We just planned those dates out. The shelter manager to my knowledge was not at the last board of health meeting. Can we uh require her to be here for the next to answer that question? >> Absolutely. They they would bring anyone that you want to come to the board of
health meetings with. >> She's the shelter manager. I don't know why she didn't come to the last one, but I would request. >> Well, we we would either like in writing an explanation to this to this matter or we'd like her to be here March 10th.
>> Yes. >> Or both. But look, that meeting is not, and I'm sure you're aware, but that's not the um appropriate setting for questions on her management technique. Remember, when you get into performance, >> it's not management, it's it's taxpayer
dollars that are being spent. So, she could either put in writing why one person is getting the overtime that's not doing the work of an acco, >> right? >> Or come here and answer the question. Well, I think she's going to answer it or that any person that's going to be the subject of any of these issues that
are brought up, right? If they're with through an investigation, but again, you're talking about performance of personnel. And so, that's a very you can bring her in to a public meeting, but you have to write notice any person, and I'm not just picking on her, any person.
You have to right notice them if you're going to talk about their performance. >> We're not talking about performance. We're talking about spending of taxpayer dollars. It's close, right? That that's something. And again, I would let legal respond to that in terms of, you know, [cough] you have [clears throat] to be
careful you're not crossing that line. That's almost >> And look, I know what you're saying because you just want an accounting and and, you know, accountability for what's going on with a particular budget and your operation, right? And so it could be any director or any manager that's
coming in here that they have to answer. we're going to go through, you know, budget meetings soon and you're going to be asking directors questions like that and and such and about the operations. So, as long as it's about that, no problem. And I don't think they'll have any problem bringing her. They brought
her to many of the board of health in the past because there have been other issues, right, that they want to make sure that somebody's there that can answer your questions. So, >> other departments have been scrutinized on overtime. I know we've scrutinized the fire department, the police department asking about. So, I don't
think that it's a problem asking about the overtime numbers or or why a certain person is getting it and not someone else. >> You're exactly right. >> My my my only excuse me, my only concern is because we're dealing with a specific employees and um overtime when you were
looking at say fire department, it was the overall budget. Um some of the comments that were made by Mr. Clay were saying that there could be a possible favoritism or something to that. because of those comments, I would be very cautious of going into specific
questions with her in a public forum without having wred her um in that type of situation because it's involving one particular employee. It's not just looking at the budget. This is also her performance of how she's using that
budget which could lead to other things. Um, so the legal um our we would tell you that she would need to be right um for that conversation to happen in this form. >> But let's go back to the issues that Steve brought up, right? I said we're
going to take it seriously. We're going to investigate. You'll have an answer on that. I think you'll be satisfied with it that you'll have enough information that you won't have to necessarily ask questions about specific things. And while she can be at the board of health
meetings, you can be at the budget meetings if you want or whatever, you can ask those management questions, right, that really aren't related directly to personnel or any particular personnel issue. You can ask those at that time as well, but you'll be
>> Yeah, we're not looking at >> I feel confident that you are gonna do what you have to do on your end to look into this properly to make sure that we get an answer that is satisfactory to what we're looking for to make sure that you know nothing is going on
inappropriately. >> Right. >> Absolutely. >> I agree. >> Anything else? Does anybody else want to comment in the open? Did you have something else, Steve? [laughter]
>> Steve Craig, Wolfpack Road. I actually have a um proposal I'd like council to consider regarding the shelter. Um I'd like you to consider for anytime the shelter wants to euthanize a an animal for alleged
behavioral issues. that that be brought here. Um, if we're disposing of pretty much any other township asset, it comes here. Um, we do know, cuz I've stood up here and
talked about pretty much everyone, not all of them, but most everyone. And we've learned that the shelter does not follow its own policy. We know that dogs get labeled and then stuffed in a cage for more than a year and neglected until
they can use that that behavior as a justification for killing them. Uh early last year, it was an somebody who went into the dog's kennel with the intent of uh antagonizing the dog to put a leash on
and that dog ended up dead. We do know that the, you know, part of the process is when there's a behavior issue or behavioral change, they're supposed to go to the vet to specifically for that reason to rule out a medical issue. And
we found that if the dog had seen a vet at any time they were at the shelter, they checked that box. Um, notifications going out to the public or to volunteers to get notification, get these animals out does not happen. And it's [clears throat]
not very productive for me to stand up here after the fact. So, I'm just asking to consider that that these things be brought here with the documentation that they've done their due diligence and that any volunteer or anybody else who wants to speak up for this animal has a
chance to speak before it happens. And I do want to stress these dogs, this shelter, these are township assets. Recently, we had a dog adopted to somebody with their to to be a companion
for their I'm sorry, can I just have one more minute? >> Uh, a dog adopted to somebody who was to become a companion for their autistic child. A dog who became uh a companion for somebody to take to
their addiction meetings. a dog who became a partner for somebody and their mother to get her mother up and more mobile. These are these things happened recently um because somebody bucked the system
because somebody questioned that one of these dogs was deemed to be unadopted. The other nobody would touch for months until their health deteriorated. Two of them as a matter of fact happened to that and
that questioning of the authority for these things resulted in some retaliation. So those things seem to have gone to crap since that happened. These are assets. These are not just disposable animals. The shelter is a resource for the township. So I'm just
asking that you guys consider that proposal. So I think that we will con always consider everything right. That's part of being open-minded. One of the things that I always um pride my judgment on is I rely on our professionals and all fields to give us
right to give us their uh decisions. I depend on our professionals legally, administratively uh you know trying to make a decision uh for someone telling me what the best tractor to buy is or what the best uh
police or fire method is. We depend on those professionals to do that. So I don't know um how everybody else would vote or how everybody feels. Would I like to know what's going on? Yes, absolutely. Uh but I
you know me for you know at least six years now I depend on my professionals to give uh their opinions to make their decisions right and you hope that those professionals are are making the correct answers so yes we
will consider I'm going to give my colleagues here an opportunity to comment but ultimately we we depend on our professionals because I'm not a prof while I've had my experience I don't know that I'm a professional in making that decision. And you you know me and
you know I have no that's the last thing that I would want to do is put a dog down. You you know me well enough to we've spent time together but I would ultimately depend on my professionals to give me you know where we stand and what we should do. But I I would like my
colleagues to have a chance to respond if if you want. You don't have to. >> You know I agree with what you just said. I mean, I couldn't say better than what you just uh eloquently put forward. Um, but something that we'll definitely take a look at. I don't think that I'm
open to hear the pros and cons of >> that idea. >> You know, me, I'd close the shelter and take them all home with me if I could. [laughter] >> So, >> my wife would kill me, but I will. >> To your point though, how much professional training does the shelter staff get in that area?
>> Well, there we have we have professionals doing evaluations. Correct. We have professionals if you can comment on that please. We have professionals don't if Jen I don't know if you want to comment whoever does whoever >> we have a whole protocol for that and
yes it does include a professional that evaluates and assesses and then again there's protocol throughout. So >> and and none of the animals that have needed to be put down have been put down without the signature of the
veterinarian. And that is not just a blanket signature. Uh there have been animals which were recommended for euthanasia that the veterinarian has since when the conversation has started have said that's not an animal that I
believe um should be um up for that at this time. Um so you know I I while I disagree with several Mr. like statements and accusations. Um there's always room for improvement. Plus, the township shelter, we these dogs can are
not just an effort. They can also be a liability. [clears throat] We've paid out a settlement as such to show that they can be a liability when they do have behavioral issues. They can be a danger uh to the residents, to our employees, and to our volunteers. Um so,
yes, these are living, breathing animals. These are animals that as many as that we can place, we can try to place. Unfortunately, in this time period, um there are many of these animals because they have a bite history before they came to the shelter or when they first came to the shelter, a lot of
the uh of um the rescue organizations will not touch them and a lot of rescue organizations are built to the brim as it is right now. So, um, unfortunately, it's just a sign of the times where you
have animals that whose behavior and and even an animal that is walked every day that might be given love and affection because they're living in a shelter, they're still going to have um some issues with getting worse and and deterioration on a day-by-day basis with their behavior. Um, because it's not
natural for them to be in a cage most of the day. Um and so at some point in time there are decisions that have to be made based on how that animal is behaving um what's going on with that animal and
sometimes that there that hard decision has to be made. Now it's my understanding that uh everyone is informed if that animal has an attachment as the policy that we created to one of the volunteers. The volunteer is also um informed that the animal is going to be
put down. We don't make these decisions lightly. Um, and there it's not something where we just say we're going to put down these five animals today. If there anytime an animal has it's been deemed that it may be up for discussion, there are several discussions. There are several there are several times and even
an additional, hey, this animal is going to be up for um for possible being put down. Can is there a rescue organization that can take them? Um, so everything has been done, but there are times when it's just inevitable and the animals
have to be protected. >> Understood. >> Thank you. [clears throat] >> Anybody else want to comment? >> I think one question and and you guys might not know it, but Steve may, so I'm just going to ask the question, whoever wants to respond. There there is a normal time frame. you
bring in XYZ animal gets dropped off at the shelter or they pick him up randomly on the streets um and maybe the dog may show signs of aggressiveness. At what point and how much time goes by
before that initial evaluation is done. I know we talked about it. I'm just trying to refresh my memory of the time frame once the animal lands at the shelter and to the point of when he's about he it is evaluated.
>> So the the policy is like between 3 and 7 days. Um it has wavered between that for sometimes for valid reasons, sometimes for just not. But that evaluation done by a professional or not is done in
a matter of minutes. on an animal who just came into probably the worst environment he's going to be in. So the the evaluation and the these evaluation tests that have been developed have been debunked many times
by the people who developed them and we're going to talk about that process at future meetings. But even they say that evaluation itself is a small fraction of how the animals to be evaluated because it's just a battery of
test. You're trying to provoke this animal into doing something. You're giving a ball of food and you're poking them in the face with a plastic hand. You're doing what you tell everybody not to do with the dog. Just grab them by their mouth and look at their face. You know, you're poking them. You're playing with them in a in a highly stressful
environment one after another and you're giving them a grade. That's this much. That's the starting point. That's not the end point. All the volunteer activity, all the people taking them out, all the people interacting with them, all the people showing that how does the dog going to react under normal
circumstances when when I take them to a bag of bones, when I sit with him in the car, when people take them to the park, when they walk down the street, that's a dog's real behavior. That that counts over time. And is the dog progressing or is he declining? But some of these dogs come in, they get a
they get a bad label, and then they sit in that cage for months and more months and more [clears throat] months. >> Understood. And it's something for all of us to consider. And I know we're out of time. >> Good. I I just wanted to finish the the thought I had started before was um
while, you know, I don't expect everybody sick here to judge the dog's behavior better than anybody else. It is it is for a discussion, but to validate that the shelter's own policies have been followed because sometimes it is just boxes being checked. Those notices
that go out are private. When's the last time you saw a post from this township, this shelter, saying, "Please help us, you know, otherwise we have to put down this dog." Every other shelter, the worst shelters around do that. We keep it private. Why? It's a private email
that goes to some people. I know these rescues they go to. They're not ever going to answer those. Nobody will. No. Nobody's going to sit and read those emails that just say, "Hey, we have a dog that we don't know what to do with. Can you take them?" >> Your your point is understood and taken
and we're going to have a conversation about that as well. >> Thank you. >> Can I just ask a clarifying question? So are so are you asking for it to be brought before council so it can be publicly notified? You're not looking for I agree with Pat and everybody here
that you know we're not the experts you know that's we're not the ones who would be making these decisions but just more of a >> well for all >> this is what we're about to do. this is why we're doing it and lay out like >> is it you know is there a public discussion on hey were these processes
followed for all the talk of collaboration and and appreciation for the volunteers and notification for the volunteers nobody ever says hey you've been working for this dog what can we do at best sometimes I get a
phone call or email saying the dog's going to be put down next week that's it there's no discussion there's no warning and it's somebody's arbitrary decision vision on who they notify and we've lost volunteers because they came in and work with these dogs and then they come in one day and the dog's gone cuz nobody
knew to notify them. Why would it be a decision? >> I believe in the more recent times we've done our due diligence to let the people who are walking or or caring for those dogs that were attached to those dogs. We have done our due diligence as reported. I too I can tell you I won't speak for every volunteer
but I go there for every animal whether I walk them or not. I go for every animal. >> But that's that was not in the spirit of the policy that was created. There were there were dogs that certain people have very close attachments to. We made sure that they were notified if that dog was
going to be euthanized. It's not going to be you're notified for every animal. That's not >> because see if you're a volunteer that comes in. If you were if you were attached to one specific animal and everybody knows that you consider the packs you were attached to certain particular ones. If something was happening with that animal, you were
notified. It is not something where the township is going to notify you for every animal with the decision that we made for animals that are in our care. >> Why not? >> Cuz that's not that wasn't the spirit of what the policy was written. Steve, >> I know. But when we when we proposed it,
when we asked for it in a transition committee, it was a key point because who decides who's attached to which animal? And like I said, many of us go for all of the animals. So, we can't just say we're going to decide whether
you care enough for for us to tell you and then say, "Hey, we appreciate all the volunteers." >> So, we're we're out of time. We understand your point. we will take it into consideration and we will have a conversation with our professionals about that. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Thank you.
>> Any other questions or comments from uh the public on any topic? It's a open open mic. Nothing. Yeah, [laughter] come on up. >> I knew you were I was. That's why I asked twice. >> The cold's got your arm a little stiff
from Right. Hey, after shoveling for three days, what do you want? >> Okay. Um, John Scott 432 at Cornell Heights. I thought I read some place where Trenton Waterworks is going to be helping another company. I think it started with an A, giving them water or
something. If we're cutting water down to save water because of this drizzle, fizzle or whatever it is coming in, why are we giving the water away? If if we're short on water, why are we supposed to be watching our water when they say, "Oh, we have water to give to
another company." >> Did Tr say they were giving water to another company? >> I think they supply to Aqua, right? >> Yeah. They sell it. They sell their water to other water companies. So, Aqua was that one. >> So, I guess they just started to
thinking that they had enough to provide to them or whatever, including just like they sell it to you and everyone else. So, because that doesn't make sense, but they're just saying, you know, make sure you watch your water, conserve your water, this that the other thing, and so I assume we don't have enough, and then
we're going to sell it to somebody else. So, that just didn't make logical sense to me. >> It's constant mismanagement. >> Okay. And did they did put the two new tanks in on Pennington Avenue where the big reservoir was, didn't they? They were supposed to put two tanks in
>> instead of the open reservoir. I'm not sure. >> Okay. >> Cuz that was supposed to be done years ago and to take the place of the reservoir. >> I I I I know where you're talking about and I know where the reservoir is. I I know there's some tanks off on another street vacant area. I don't know if
that's what it's from, but I go occasionally by there. I'll take a look again. >> Okay. >> For you, but >> because supposedly that was supposed to help matters, too. >> Originally, they were supposed to get rid of the reservoir, >> right? That's right. That that's why these two big tanks were supposed to go where the reservoir was.
>> How's that working out? >> Right. [laughter] Cuz when you were talking about the reservoir like two weeks ago, things still there. Okay. >> All righty. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Crowley. You're last. Do you want anything to say? I'm
>> good. [laughter] All right, with that said, we'll close the public's uh portion and we will move to council comments if anybody wants to go first. >> Yeah, I'll be I hope I'm quick. >> Um, real quick, obviously um you know,
so much for climate change because uh we're definitely getting one of them looks like we're in one of them winters that we haven't had in a while. So, you know, next couple days especially and then going I think we get a day one day break where it gets up near 50 again and it gets cold again. So, you know, it
might be a lot of people out there that need help, right, with um maybe maybe they don't have heat or whatever, but they should, you know, if you know somebody that's struggling, they should probably reach out to the township that they could give them advice on uh what they can do or where they can go. And more importantly, you know, be careful
yourselves. Joe Janice probably jokingly, I hope you're not shoveling, but um >> yesterday. >> All right. Well, be careful. >> Well, be careful out there whether you're shoveling snow or driving in the car cuz there's a lot of black ice out
there right now. I think the township did a good job. Um our public works department as far as, you know, clearing streets and clean clearing the main arteries. And uh you know, we had backtoback or wraparound storms that hit us. Although we didn't get hit with a lot, but enough just to cause
disruption. So, just be mindful. The next this weekend we're supposed to get hit with another one. Um, it could potentially be bigger. Yes. But, uh, you know, just be mindful, be careful, and, uh, don't dig anything over 6 in, uh, whole pad up. He'll glely come out.
Right. [laughter] >> I don't say >> other than that, have safe travels and thanks for [clears throat] coming tonight. >> I'll be really brief. I just wanted to um think some warm thoughts and um just mentioned that the St. Patrick's Day parade uh I know Chy's big time involved
in that. Um just wanted to congratulate this year's grand marshalss. Um three of of the proprietors of uh Kani. So um they do a tremendous job. Sheamus uh Don and Jack um know them very well and are very involved in the community. So glad
to see that. And then we have um Carolyn Faulk who's actually are going to be our Miss St. Patrick for this year. So um looking forward to uh warmer times ahead in that event and um just want to thank everyone for coming out this evening. Thank you. Thank you ma'am.
>> I'll be short as well. Um again thank you for coming out tonight. Thank you Steve. Thank you Jen and welcome to Juliana. Hopefully you'll join us again. Um, but thank you again for bringing your concerns to us and um, going back to what Cheddy said, just make sure check on your neighbors. Um, I believe
is the senior center warming warming >> centers. >> I was just Yeah, I was trying to think if I'd seen that on the website or not. >> We'll definitely put it on the website for those locations, especially one. >> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So, just again, look out for your neighbors. Pat will
come shovel you out. And, uh, other than that, have a good night. [laughter] Looks like I got volunteered for a lot and it stinks cuz my son's at college and I don't have the help anymore. So, >> I'll help you. I'll get you there. >> But I want to thank everybody for coming out, bringing some things to our attention uh that we needed to know
about. Uh thank my team. I know some uh some of our team is um has other plans tonight and they're missed. Uh but we appreciate uh everybody being here and um congratulations to our clerk.
>> Uh While she is great, and I take nothing away from her, she also has a great team, uh, everyone from the clerk's office, uh, Britney and everyone else, uh, you deserve the same accommodations as her, and, um, we thank you for everything you do for us because these
meetings don't happen without all the great work that you do. So, thank you both and please express that to the rest of the team, uh, tomorrow when you get back to work. Uh with nothing else to to talk about, uh hopefully we don't get too much snow and we'll see you here uh
very soon. Thank you. Meetings are true.