Go ahead. >> Good evening and welcome to the December 2nd, 2025 meeting on the Hammond Select Board and Board of Health being held at the new town hall at 85 Wham Road. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. We are live here at the uh new town hall. We're also broadcasting over Zoom. We are recording this meeting. Is there
anyone else recording the meeting? Kristen Rivers from the Hland Times. Hello Kristen. So we have no minutes to review. The first thing our in our agenda is to welcome the Hanland sorry the Wolverham
Select Board again to our new digs. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Like to call us overcially. I'll thank you for that. >> You do all three. >> We also have other guests. We have uh Dr. John Provost and where is Doug? Oh,
and Dr. Lauder, both from the school district, Mike Tbasi from the school committee, Dr. Turbosi. And I believe Michelle is online. >> Not yet. >> Not yet. >> And we do anticipate that the chair of
the school committee, Michelle Pudro, will also be joining us. >> Yeah. So, and Nick Bro, the town administrator from Wolverham. Hi, Nick. So, this is the ongoing discussion we've had about uh the status of the Wrahead
Middle School and how any expenses going forward having accumulated should be treated. I think this is maybe our fourth meeting on this subject. Third or fourth. heard you think.
>> Hi first. >> Might be Eric's first. >> Welcome. So, we'll let Eric take first. >> So, which is actually it's a good thing. Let's talk about it as if we're talking about it for the first time and that'll really bring Eric in on it. Um,
Don, would you mind giving us a quick recap of how you see it standing at this point? >> Right to the heart. Right. First of all, anything I have to say is not a criticism of Dr. Provost or Dr.
Slaughter. Uh they've inherited a mess and they've been trying to find many, many ways to get out of the mess that was created 10 years ago when they unified the two schools, packed all the kids into a school that was not sufficient at that time and it continues
to be insufficient at that time. So, where we are is the schools, the Wberham Middle School needs, I think the last report I got from Dr. Slaughter, I mean from Dr. Provos was like $16 million in repairs.
>> That's based on a 2015 estimate. >> So, it's probably a lot more than that now. So, the question is we have students there. Uh, it's the building is owned by the town of Wilberham. Uh the
lease and the and the agreement uh says that the town of Wilberham is supposed to pay for every cap all capital expenses over $30,000 and u it's going to be a lot more expensive than that. But I believe there's also a another factor in now
with the core uh with the mass school building assistance. >> Yeah. Um you guys >> go ahead. I I asked for the letter to be sent from the school committee, you guys, >> when we saw the price tag for what was
supposed to be an accelerated repair project, which we were accepted into of going, you know, probably approaching close to $10 million, certainly at least $7 million. Some we want to be responsible, right?
To reflect. And looking at that 2015 report, there's a number of systems in the B. Okay. All the systems in the building are at beyond end of life and failing and need replacement. The accelerated repair program can only help with the windows and the doors. They
helped us with the roof 5 years ago. That was great. Um, and but it's not going to help us replace the whole electrical system, the whole plumbing system, the outer walls, the inner walls, and
educational concerns about the configuration of the building as well. So that kind of repair the state can help us with but it's through the core program. That doesn't mean build a new middle school.
We apply to the core program. We see if we get invited in. We do and we start a feasibility study which is involved and have to acknowledge that given the condition of the building there's a possibility the state might push us
towards a new building project. There's also a possibility they might push us towards a gut refurb addition some paradigm along that fee as well. Right. So, so just applying. So,
we're considering doing that, but we we have to withdraw the accelerated prepare application if we want to apply to them. The state was at the MA MS MASC meeting, we asked and they were pretty clear, you can't play both sides of the
fence. >> You got to at least commit to that. You don't need to know. You don't need to know what you what what the solution is. they want to work with us for that. But you need to know the have a list of problems. We do have that.
>> Um however any core building project will not be successful without support really from both towns where but that starts from the select boards of both towns. So before the school committee even seriously
you know weighs the decision as to whether to make the action withdraw from the accelerator to prepare apply to the core I think it's very important for us I thought it was very important the committee thinks it's very important that we we hear from both select boards
that they understand the situation and are either supportive or not supportive or or you know to those actions you have to keep in You know, a new building project would definitely be regionally owned, right?
You guys aren't on the hook for the wild middle school right now, but but your kids are there and if if it turned into a new building project, it would be a regional project. And if it turned into a gut reaper, I mean, there's a million paradigms. And I'm not I don't think the committee is looking to hear we do this
for this and this for this this for just we understand the problem. We acknowledge the insight and and we're you know maybe we're hoping to hear supportive of the decision to maybe change our approach with the core
building program. There's a lot of play here. You know, and John, I think you could much better say the educational problems specifically with the building, ignoring the physical system problems that are all beyond end of just before that Mike
and I'll speak to both Sue and Mark. This hate to say this is Minutachog all over again for those of us who are around 15 years ago. This is exactly the path >> on the study >> that was taken even be you know before that we said okay do we fix repair
machog or apply or back away from that application apply I think it was the model school program at that point >> it was the MSB building program >> but they wanted to push a model school and then you would get a better better rate >> so it's the same argument all over again
we're not I don't think it there's a lot to be gained by going over what could have happened eight nine years ago when perhaps this might have been the decision back then when this program could have been undertaken for 33% of
what it's going to cost now. We're here where we are right now. I will say personally I think what you're talking about is the right course of action because otherwise you're just bandating it and we're going to be back in 5 years
with more to do. But this is the same thing we talked about. Mark will remember when we talked about miniature. You know, you're putting a new coat of paint on something that's not going to get us into the 21st century at that point. So, just my thought and a little
historical thing and I know you two recall that time as well. I'm sorry, John, you were going to say something. >> Sure. I believe that Dr. Terbas wanted me to talk to just some of the educational challenges. would say that um the maintenance is not an issue. Um
you still have the problem that this is a middle school. It's a middle school that was originally built as a junior high in the late60s. So um junior high is a model for two grades. Um and in the late60s the model was much less
individualized than education is right now. It was more around large group instruction. If you look at the uh listed capacity for that school, it's much higher than the number of students that we have in now, but it's because there were really four large
instructional spaces where they thought they'd be educating large groups of kids, which may have been appropriate for junior high in the late60s. There was a um lecture hall upstairs. There's the auditorium, and then there's two PE spaces, which could uh conceivably
accommodate a lot of students. However, um it's not in use as a junior high and it is not um consistent with modern theories of education, what kids need. The other thing I would say is that um it was built before the advent of
special education. So there's no uh accommodation within that entire plan that any of the students were going to be students with disabilities. there's no accommodation for the specialized equipment that um is required or um just the additional classroom spaces that are
are needed sometimes for special education students. Um so that um compounds the problem. So you have not only um an additional grade that wasn't intended to be there but you have a whole additional class of students that was not intended to be there. Um and
then you know I would say that we have very different ideas around uh what is nurturing students now than we had in the late 60s. And one of the things that I remark on when I go to the building is how dark it is. You know I remember I
can't believe the cafeteria doesn't have any windows. Um, but researching some of the building philosophies around the time that was intentional because it was felt that if you could see the outside that was a distraction and if the
teacher is in charge of you know 50 kids or more you want to try to cut out all of the potential distractions by just keeping it like cell block design. So that I mean those are some of the educational pieces that are limitations of the building even without um the
mechanical problems. to ask a few questions. >> One, I just want to be sure one thing. >> So, is this what I know they were before you last week or so? Did you already get a lot of this last week with your me? Okay. I just want to make sure you're not cut off. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. So, I'm just being new to this. I just
have lots of kind of follow-up questions and some of them may say this may seem a little grandiose, but I will say them anyway. So, we're talking about theoretically we're looking at the accelerated um is it accelerated building program which is like doing like just like spot repairs, windows,
doors, things like that, right? For a certain x amount of dollars. Now, if we switch this and go to the core program, is that still going to be is that going to solve all the needs or is that just a band-aid or is it you able to, you know, redo classrooms and all that stuff or is
this just kind of making it a little bit better long run or is this going to kind of educationally as well as building wise? >> That'll that can be up to us to decide with the state through the feasibility study if they invite us in. the program
is competitive. I think that's worth noting. >> Um, you know, >> during the feasibility study, they sometimes there could be result where they say, well, you could go this way, got rehab, re re, you know, refurbish or you could go new building or or they
might just say go building, >> right? >> You know, G given given the circumstance. >> Sure. So the concerns over the gut rehab, right, is >> will it really get the job done? >> That's my concern. A, and B, what's the
cost of it at the end of the day? It's going to be pretty close to a new I'm not obviously that's going to be more expensive, but is it really worth throwing away a lot of dollars for a few more when you could get like everything that we would I'm not going to say everything we want because things are always evolving and changing, but I just
trying to better understand. So the feasibility study could theoretically recommend an entirely new building based on what's driven. I'm going to move. Thank you. I I the the attitude that I got from the meeting and the sessions that I attended was I think it's good to
go into the process with an open mind >> and the support of everyone all the key stakeholders so that you can look you know really do the feasibility study to figure out you know because it all comes down to the kids right what's going to meet the educational needs and support
the teachers on their mission educ kids right um and so Um, so I I don't I think going into it with the philosophy that it's definitely a new building probably isn't the right way to go. Although >> it's not a I mean I don't I mean not an
expert in buildings, but I read the 2015 report and doesn't seem like it's a far stretch of imagination that this could end up going down the pathway. >> Sue, do you want to quickly recap? I mean maybe you had different thoughts last week for those who may not have
watched your meeting. >> Having been part of the Minichok feasibility study and then was on the building committee um from Minichok um the whole point of the feasibility study is really to get contemporary
information um in a deep way about the circumstances that exist in the building about the needs that present themselves. what what's optimal and then we're making decisions as
both communities about what we end up doing. I mean, we made decisions about how to approach Minichog. Um, with Minichog, just for folks who weren't in the community at the time, the district building was never something we were going to get any state support for. We
had to pick up the the tab for that completely. Um there was discussion about whether or not we wanted to continue to have a pool, you know, big ticket item. >> Um we didn't put air conditioning in. >> That's New England. Who needs air conditioning, you know? But it was going
to be another price factor that we were concerned as we worked as the communities combined with players from the district from um elected people, town people. Doug Boyd and Carol Fitzgerald were part of that from the
get-go as was I. Um, it's about getting enough information to try and make a prudent decision and then you're going to have to weigh it against what you think the communities can can absorb and tolerate, >> right? And roughly how long does that process take? Because I know if we're
throwing from one program and going to this program, that's going to just kind of >> That's a good question. The number that I that I know is that it was a dozen years from start to finish, right? Um, but I want to say it it was a couple of years process and I think we were trying
to do a little bit more ourselves than we probably would do at this point. I think we would hire a consultant right out of the gate. It's been long enough ago that it's not all that fresh in my mind, but um there are consultants who do this
on regular basis and um some that we've been involved with in the past and some that we could get recommendations from locally. Long Meadow is going through this process right now and my understanding is they started where we're at right now in 2021. So they're in it been in it for about
four or five years and they just voted on it. >> So it'll probably be another two years before they get into the building. So figure six yearsish. >> Yeah. But I think from the last time I this has been talked about enough I think it was if I can recall I think it was about two years for the towns to get
together and then like you said >> move the process forward. The one thing that >> the process has been streamlined since we built Gachog. I think that's the point of it, right? >> The one thing that comes to mind to me and again we're the three of us are free forming here right now. We started this
discussion about what is hand's responsibility to the cost of the Warren Middle School. Quick thought on my part. This is a bit of a sea change for us and I will free form right out that if we again copied
what happened in Minichok 14 15 years ago withdrew so to speak the repair thing and went for the full whatever program it's going to be to me that puts the repair part for middle school off the table
because it wouldn't be that building would not be part of the in terms of our costs. A, say they decide, as we talked about years ago, we should be building a new middle school on the campus of Minhok and have a a a
campus there, then we'd be we why would we put money into a structure that's owned by the town of Warham'd have no involvement after that school is built? It'd be tough to get our equity back. Say they decide Mike said possibility they say cut it and rebuild it where it
is and we maybe make that regional property going forward again same thing we buy into that I think it's a new building and that'll be our responsibility so I think it kind of brings it to us like if we're going to
endorse and I don't know if you're formally asking the select boards to consider endorsing basically your plan to withdraw and reapply at this meeting or a future meeting that I think would change where I am on our
discussion about any repair upgrade cost at uh at Warman Middle School. Don, >> but you don't you don't need our approval, right? >> Technically, we don't need your approval, but a letter of support from each of the select boards, I think, would be a tremendous help to the
application to the core building program. I heard from multiple people at MSC that one of the things they focus on is making sure both communities are on board, >> right? But if you just >> they don't want to waste their time, >> right? >> You know what I mean? I mean, because think about it, you know, even if they
invite you in, even do the feasibility study, you come up with the plan, you do the design, you do all that, it's still got to be voted on a town meeting, it's still be voted on the polls, right? So, so and and which town was it that failed recently? Belure town, right?
They had a new building proposal and it fell. Was it Belure Town? Belure Town passed it over. So they they failed a building proposal just recently. >> Yeah. >> So you know you don't want to put all that work in, you know, and number one
you a lot of people put a lot of work into that. And then number two, >> kids are still stuck in the same situation. >> Yeah. Well, that's the problem. So for six years the kids are in a place that should have been fixed 10 years ago, right? And and there's no intention of
fixing it, doing anything about it. You get you got kids your asthma rate your asthma rate in the middle school is higher than the state average. You got 50% of the rooms whose CO2 is too high. You got all the other problems that occur. You know, they try to fix the in
fairness to Dr. Provos and Dr. flatter. They try to get the ventilation taken care of and that got shot down. I mean, so what do we do for six years while these kids are sitting there? >> So, so, so Don, I I sort of brought that up at the last meeting. I said if we withdraw from accelerated and move to core, there's no guarantee we get into
core. >> Right. >> Right. So, to all the concerns being brought up, >> there are still issues at the middle school that need to be addressed. Now, maybe we're not going to do system overhauls because if we're looking at a potential of not using that building or otherwise completely renovating it, we don't want to fix systems until we know
we're going to fix them. >> Mhm. >> But I think that and I don't necessarily want to object to your logic, John, >> but I would say I would object in the sense that we can't just abandon repairs at the middle school by going through a core program. I think we can get tighter
about what repairs are necessary to prevent catastrophic failure. >> But if the building were to be closed, where do we educate those kids? >> I agree with you. >> Now, and whatever the solution is. >> Well, I agree with you. And that speaks to Don's point, you know, and you all
remember how long it took to get Minog up off the ground. Maybe part of the solution is maybe you look at uh you look at the worst affected areas and maybe at that point you're picking up modulars and putting them outside so you get the kids who are
maybe you relieve the crowding at that point you get the worst >> you can return those eighth grade to miniature >> that's a possibility too sure >> within for excuse me the reason I say that is because the original in back in
2016 the uh town meeting warrant article had the children in Hampton going to the middle school for 5 years until 2022 but there was never anything what happens after 20 if that had passed what
was going to happen after 2022 >> Mar's plan was to build medical school >> the town I would not say that that was the case having to be deep in that >> yeah so so I guess so I said what do
Do you put the eighth grade in miniatur for a few years while you >> Well, and I and I don't know that >> that's not our call >> that they're bringing up to that. I don't know that those are the weeds that we necessarily are going to get into in this conversation. But I >> I guess my thought would be if we're going to free form for a minute, I guess
my thought is is that there's some commitment that either we want to regionalize the middle school or we don't. It doesn't matter necessarily to that point what the plan is to do that, but do we have an agreement potentially? And I don't think we have to have that tonight, but we can. Great. But it
really comes down to are we going to regionalize in middle school? >> I would say >> how we do that is the next conversation. >> Well, I would say to my point is that I think I would be comfortable regionalizing into a new or totally renovated building that has a long
lifetime to it rather than, as Don said, a well doumented history of problems with it. Maybe, as he says, when you move the eighth grade over to Minichog, which Dr. Provos has said there is room for, you could restructure what's
happening there and isolate the problem areas so they're not part of the problem for five years. How many kids are in the 300 in a grade right now? >> It's about a little over 200. >> 200. So, if you took 200 out of the mix, maybe get the library back. I just want
to jump in and and make a point which is I think important which is Don you continue to bring up the fact that capital planning shut down the work that was proposed to be done the ventilators. In fact, there was no verification that
that would be accepted to solve the problem. >> That's why they opted not to move forward to fund >> except for the January 2025 air quality study that the state did that said the first recommendation is fix the ventilation system. >> We can throw darts at each other all we
want. It doesn't really accomplish >> darts. So I think it's important that we we you know you also sent a letter saying that you didn't think the phys feasibility study had any re relevance right >> the 2015
>> the 2015 sub had no relevance well apparently it does and and if you use that to go to the core program like you said Dr. Provos, what are they going to say when they say, "Gee, the select board in Wilberham doesn't think it had any relevance."
>> Can I can I just offer something because I think it's important to address. I I know briefly you talked about moving the eighth grade temporarily at least into the to the high school. One of the elements that we haven't discussed tonight was um and Dr. Dr. Provos is going to address
this more specifically than I, but the NASDAQ study that was recently done shows there's going to be a 31% increase in enrollment at the middle school in the next over the next 10 years, right? >> So, if we move the eighth grade in there >> and then we start to experience this
boom and and there's no room in the high school anymore. >> So, I think if we do that, you might end up having a problem where you're just shifting the problem to the high school. >> Understand? I think >> but again you do say it's over 10 years >> as a temporary in order again if the growth is in the younger
grade you have >> look at that yeah >> but and I guess my only question in response to you know the free form youth out which is I'm I paraphrasing that you're okay with the idea of a regional a truly regionalized new building potentially I'm not saying yes to that
but you're you're going down that path as it's more >> well I think if it's a regionalized building and I know there's been everyone said oh that's your goal been your goal for 15 20 years. The goal is to provide the best education for the students of both towns and if that's it.
But I think you the town has always supported investing in infrastructure that's new and updated >> and and I guess my question to that that that thought is there is and without saying that there's a statistical
improbability but there's still an opportunity that the state core program turns around and says yeah you guys can go rehab this building and it'll work for the next 30 or 40 years. I mean, I don't think anybody here is going to say that's a likelihood, but if they did, is it my understanding that you would find
that to be invaluable? >> I didn't say that. >> I'm I'm asking. >> No, I didn't say that. I said in my mind >> because I think that's >> it's almost like if they said, well, you have a property already. You could fit it there and it got rehab. >> But honestly, I go back I think Eric
said at that point, are you at 75% of the cost of a brand new thing or should you just be building new? >> Understood. But I think I think that comes back to my my first point was are we envisioning a regionalized middle school? We can worry about how if we agree on the concept of a regionalized
middle school is the future. >> Mhm. >> And we go into the core program and the core program gives us guidance as to what that might look like. Are we nobody's committing the towns to going that path? >> But we're giving guidance to the school committee that says go down that path.
>> Let's see what it returns. And I think the next conversation we have after that is what do we do right now? >> Right. But I think the school committee has brought to us saying the same thing. And I think Mark and Don have both talked about this. They can fix the structure, but the structure is going to continue to be
more and more inadequate going forward. >> If that projected increase comes along, you're going to be shoehorning kids in there. Well, they would I would hope the feasibility study would not just look at the physical plan, but what are the educational needs going to be over the next 50 years. >> Exactly. I was going to say to expand
the building, >> right? >> Without major expansion, you could expect Wilberham as a building to serve as a Hampton Wilberham regional school building for the purpose of educating
three grade level kids. It >> something major has to change. The other thing is I feel like we are already in a regional middle school situation. Your children, you know, the children of Hampton are in
Wilberham getting educated at the middle school and it's inadequate for kids from both towns. It's inadequate for every kid in the building. >> So, we are going to have to address some of how we get through the next few years. Um but to the points that have
already been made, I think it it feels although everyone hasn't spoken that the idea of withdrawing from this accelerated repair program, which could keep us in the building for longer than it has any prayer of being serviceable,
and applying for the core program, which at least will point us in the direction of getting a feasibility study that lets our combined communities and the school district associated with get information about how we can educate
>> but quickly back to Don's point. Yes, but that's years. How do we take care of the hand of overhead students that are there now in a compromised situation? >> Can I just ask a quick Doug? Um, do we have any idea when we would hear if we
go through the application process starting now, do we have any idea when we would hear back? It's um >> the core program they do it in December. So um or late November. So the accelerated repair the applications due
a month earlier generally it was due in March this last spring. They gave notice they had a the board meeting where they voted approval was in late October. >> Okay. >> Um so with the program they typically extend a little bit longer. It's April when they're due. They typically voted
early December. So probably this week for the people that applied last spring. >> Okay. So next year at this time we should hear whether or not we're invited in. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So you would withdraw the the application and do a new application for the core program.
>> How how much does that cost and how much time does it take? >> There's no cost to apply. I mean it's it's the opportunity cost and the salary cost of dog essentially. But you know the the real cost would be like I said the opportunity cost should
we not be invited in. We had money available for repair that we're saying no to. So that I think is essentially what your cost to apply would be >> and then there's a cost for the feasibility study and that gets >> but you wouldn't do the feasibility study till after >> we're invited in.
>> Invited in. >> What's the cost? >> That could be hundred couple hundred thousand dollars, right? I mean if you did a Oh, I think last time you paid for the feasibility study out of the END, wasn't it? >> Last year it was it was 150 grand. >> No, I mean for the miniature
feasibility study, it was a requirement to be in the MSBA program to be making that application and it was one of those circumstances where the it was money they could bill to the MSBA once things moved forward. I think even if we had
not been accepted, we would have been reimbursed for that. But it was that special circumstance where the school committee says, "We're gonna borrow for this unless the select boards stand up and say, "No, we want to hold a a town meeting, a special town meeting to vote
on whether or not you're allowed to make that borrowing decision." >> I think the the dollar amount associated in the feasibility study might be too much for the school committee to handle. I mean, how how much do you expect, Doug? I think at this point, you know, to do a feasibility for for the core program,
um, you know, it's going to be $600, $700,000. >> They're pretty extensive. They, you know, because I I can tell you from a previous district I was in, >> oh, >> that did it several years ago was $400,000. And it's a it's a, you know, groundup kind of look. So, they look at, you know, they look at the physical
structure you've got currently. They look at your educational plan. um you know they look at your enrollment projections um you know they look at you know the entirety of you know the variables that you want to consider. Um
so some of it you know as far as how much it costs is how much how many questions you want to explore right you know um and so that that can that can sway the the cost on that quite a bit but but it's you know in that
several hundred,000 range to do it. But could you not authorize borrowing for that amount and they would roll it forward and do bands until the project gets >> approved? >> Yeah. Okay. So, >> school committee could vote authorized >> without and two boards agreed without
objection to let that borrowing request move forward. >> Do Excuse me. Do you do you hear from the parents at all? They say anything like my kid's in this overcrowded school. He doesn't have a library. He can't breathe or whatever. We I actually do not. The the one time
that I would say I had sort of modum of concern from parents was when we had the mold situation happening. >> I don't get it. I'd be livid. >> Of course, I'm off the wall all the time anyhow. So >> high school we heard from a lot of the
parents. >> Yeah. >> Very vivid objections. >> Yes. But okay, >> I would say Don, you were at that meeting, too. And >> you I know that, but Okay, but here's a here's the thing. That was a public
forum. >> You had a thousand parents that were going to be affected by this. And you might say that, okay, 10, 20 got up and spoke against it. But does that mean
that the other 95% really were fine with it and didn't come people didn't come and speak in support because those people trust the school committee the select boards to make the right decision. Yes, some people are going to say nay
and those people came and spoke. But I think perhaps there would have been the view was that the vast vast majority who were notified of it were fine with it. And at that point I really thought the school committee would take that into account and move forward with it. And I
thought the 180 at that point so had an opportunity to send their children to the high school this year in the eighth grade. the eighth graders from high school didn't get a big reception. So I think there might be more there more negativity there than you think. John >> I think it's because they didn't I don't
think they had students John took up this >> yeah but it's because they didn't understand the program probably exactly what right the innovation program I mean it doesn't >> they just put them on a bus and brought them there. I mean the general I mean my kids are in seventh grade at the middle
school so I have twins there and the parents that I talked to they just don't want their kids exposed to older children period. That was the the general feedback that I heard was that they don't want their eight, you know, 13-year-old daughter with a 18-year-old man in the same school. That was the
biggest concern that I heard from lots of parents. >> I'm going to tell you the same thing I told that lady. These are your kids. And this is what you think about your kids that your older son is going to do that to some kid, then you got a problem far beyond.
>> They're immature children though, John. You know, Don, I I I do agree to an extent, but I mean, I'm going to digress on that one, >> right? Okay. That's >> Yeah, I hear you. >> Yeah, there are multitude of concerns every program. >> Yeah, I hear you. >> So, where are we going here? We started
talking about if there were repairs and upgrades. Sorry. Excuse me. What's your view about re withdrawing from the accelerator repair program? >> I think that um it is a a wise decision
because if we replace the windows and doors in the buildings, we still have a number of other systems that are going to fail. We only have one system that we can potentially get MSBA funding for, which is HVAC, um, which is a big
system, but we know the plumbing is beyond the end of life and we've already had a major plumbing failure there. We know that, um, the floor system is starting to encounter issues and could be quite costly to repair over time. Um,
as part of part of the discovery process and developing the scope of work to work on the floor, we found some crumbling walls. Um, so I think that, you know, it if we were to move forward with the accelerated
repair, we may find that there are more larger bills coming down the road that you can't get reimbursement for. and now you're kind of locked in because of the recruitment process of the MSBA, which we haven't talked a lot about, but basically means that the MSBA
expects you to use your building for the usable life of whatever repairs they fund. So, windows and doors are 30 years. So, if we move forward with that, then we'd really be saying that we're going to keep that building in use as
some type of a school for 30 years or we'd be um responsible for paying the state back the money that they gave us. >> What when you talk about the HVAC and they say they would cover some of is it some of that they would cover or the whole? We asked when u as part of the
process for being approved for the accelerated repair, we had a site visit from some MSBA staffers and we specifically asked a question about you know could we modify our existing application to address HBAC because we
know we have HBAC. Um they told us that we couldn't in part because you can't change midstream but also it wouldn't be wise to do it because they wouldn't approve it given the state of our windows and doors that before you can you know they'll invest in a HVAC
upgrade that you need to have better windows and doors than we have right now. >> I understand that. But I mean would they pay if we said okay fine you guys are paying for windows and doors. >> HVAC is on us but do they pay 100% of the HVAC? >> No. >> That's my point. So you still got models, >> right? So, you still got that,
>> right? >> Um, >> so you fix the windows and doors, you get some money, you fix the HVAC, you get some money, but you still have a school with 773 kids in it made for probably 500 really, right?
>> I mean, when we talked about doing this on the middle school task force years ago, we always talked about adding some call modular classrooms, for lack of a better term. That's never been done. I mean correct that was >> it's never been done. >> It's never been done. >> So I mean >> but I would like John to speak or debt
to speak to what we're looking at for modular classrooms now because that was an eye openener for me. I remember what we talked about the expense associated with those days. >> Oh I I recall I recall because we talked about putting them at uh even at green metals at the time too. But when I
mentioned modulars before, and that was to Mike's point and Don's point about the education continuing if we were in the model building program with an eye towards seven years down the road having a new middle school, maybe a different
location, could we address the potential problems with modulars rather than doing a full system repair? I do worry about repairs triggering. We went through that when we looked at the town hall and we want to address some all of a sudden
you're into that 30% of the cost of the building thing and now you have to address you pulled on one thread of the sweater and the whole sweater unraveled. >> Is there a potential you've got such a high number windows doors HVAC and all of a sudden they say well now you got to
do more because you're over x% of the value >> and we're stuck using it for 30 years. That's the core question for me like why why would we want to take money to help us support renovations to a building >> understand but is there a parallel thing
we can do say this is the plan you apply they approve yes you're into fe feasibility study for $600,000 and you're going to go out and time frame four years you know to build I don't know how east metal is doing with
theirs but pretty quick is there a concurrent plan to take care of the children that are in that structure for those four to five years while they're waiting for the new thing. Don makes a point, well, you're not going to abandon those kids that are going through it at
that point. You need to make sure they're healthy, they're in a good environment. Maybe that's where modulars come in. >> You look at the worst areas. You go to a, as I think Mike said, you go to a cheaper fix because it's not meant to be permanent.
new air handlers that don't replace the whole thing or whatever. But I think you have to have those concurrent paths. You can't just say, "F we're going to this this plan here and the five years of kids that go through, hope the best for them." You can't have that. >> You you're making a good point about the
current and future students in the middle school needing some kind of a solution. I guess I would just say that modular classrooms of today are not like modular classrooms um say of 20 years ago. Now we're talking about what they really call permanent modular construction
>> or um or designed buildings and you know they are quite costly even in the aftermarket. I I did price out some used modulars um but the the cost associated with um embedding attaching your modular
construction to your school which is kind of how they're all designed now really is a cost driver. We went to a session with um a district. It was a vocational school that had gotten um a Skills USA or Skills capital grant that
they used for uh adding some modular construction so they could add some shops to their school. Their cost was about a quart million dollars a classroom. And these are buildings that are designed these not like things that are meant to be temporary. They're kind of designed for a 20 year lifespan. they
have their own systems, their own heating, their electrical, the whole thing. Um, so I don't know, it it kind of creates a lot of the same problems. So let's say you spend, you know, six or eight million adding modular classrooms
to a building and then you move away from the building, you lose a lot of your um investment in those modulars when you get to the end of your life. >> Right. But again, I wasn't talking about replacing all the classroom space. I'm
saying if you're saying we have maybe you say I'm breaking the school down into four zones. >> Zone A is the worst zone. Okay. And that is going to require five modulars to relocate people who go into zone A
outside to another area rather than seeing the I don't know it's 50 rooms over there or something like that. >> Yeah, >> something like that. I'm not saying pick up 50 modulars because some of the spaces are okay. >> Five modulars at the one number that we've got is 1.25 million and it's a
permanent investment on whatever property it goes into which means it becomes a liability maintenance issue for either community or the district who >> he just said it was you looked at used ones also. So there must be a remarket for them.
>> There is. Yeah, >> it's not it's not a very significant discount. I know, but I'm saying just it doesn't necessarily have to be a permanent thing. >> They're designed to be good for 20 years. >> Even if it's even if it's a resale, it still requires all the requirements of
foundation and and >> permanency that a new one would require. >> Even if it's a good solution, >> again, we're just throwing out different things. We have a problem. What's a possible solution to it? Right. >> Some of the biggest concerns were like ventilation, right? Is there any way to put some cheaper external ventilation
system supplemental to the HVAC to get fresh air to drop the CO2 levels or besides the HVAC replacement? Is there any way we can go supplemental like >> Exactly. >> Say somebody in your basement, you have high radon levels and you put a fan in your basement that just literally blows out just to freshen the air. So that's that's the big
>> it's a good fiveyear thing to be 30, >> right? Is there something like that that won't affect the HVAC that a good band-aid to get just through this process to make make sure the kids is getting what they need and at least are, you know, air quality, things of that
nature. So, you know, this is really not my field of expertise, but I can tell you that whenever we've had a chance to make upgrades there, we've used heat pumps because that and even the corporate or the accelerated repair program that we talked a little bit about that, we might qualify for if we
did windows and doors would likely be heat pumps. So, that would probably be the technology that we go to because these unit ventilators like you have in this this room are just limited by their design. you can't really improve their efficiencies much more than they're
already running. But and so because we've been doing kind of by classrooms here at the middle school, the high school, do you have any sense of what we're looking at
or I mean I don't even know where to ask how many of the classrooms at the middle school already have heat pumps put in in the last five or 10 years. I feel like it's a we talked about it at capital last year. Um couple of grand
>> for classroom. >> That sounds a little low. Um it's it's you know >> I remember you speaking at camp to the issue that you had were following people's IEPs and
>> approach. >> Yeah. You can find a tent depends on how to space it of course you know what kind of load you put on it againally doing it for air conditioning purpose only not complete air handling. Um the other thing I don't know much about
is is there's a certain amount of fresh air makeup that you have to do with the system. In other words, if we were going to say put a heat pump system into this space if it went to school you would just open the windows. Then it also has to have
the pressure. You want the school rifles the school of the building rifles. >> They typically can. Yeah. Yeah. They're >> Yeah. They don't do well when it's 5 degrees outside. >> The one the ones I rated down to below.
Yeah, some of they've gotten a lot better in that regard. Um, >> but I don't know if >> that changes the model of the >> house expense if you're looking to cover broad range of temperature, >> right?
>> You don't need a you don't need a regional amendment to the regional agreement to do the core program, right? Um, >> you didn't hard to convince the state to to support building a regional middle school building if we haven't.
>> No, no, you're No, no. You're just You're just sending in the application. We're not building anything. >> Correct. Correct. Correct. Right. So, if we get invited Well, there's a What are the kind of things that go in the application, John, that can help strengthen? Well, I I
think where you were headed is not having an agreement that says you even have authorization to build a middle school might be an obstacle, right? But other things that go into it, you know, are essentially what your need >> Yeah. But how can you how can you have
an agreement to build a middle school? We don't know what the feasibility study says. >> No. um >> or pay for a middle school or pay for >> Right now, the regional agreement discusses us not being regionalized for middle school education. >> Right.
>> So, um I don't think that needs to be changed before we apply, but >> Well, no. No. The regional agreement says that it's a regional school district K through 12. >> They just happen to be in a leaf school. >> No, it doesn't. I believe it also says
says that the children of Ham are to be educated in school district. >> It does. It does, but that doesn't mean it's not a regional school. >> Oh, really? >> School district. >> I see what you're saying, Don. And and I think respectively, I would argue that >> for all the reasons you're having an
issue funneling money into the existing middle school. It would be very hard to sell investing this kind of investment without some sort of understanding that this is a vision we want to go towards. >> Okay. So here's here's my problem. We don't have the authority to change the agreement.
>> Correct? >> We would have to have a special town meeting in order to change the agreement so that you could fill out your application because your application is going to be in January, February. >> I'm sorry, but I thought what you just said was basically the regional agreement as it stands say that we're a
regional school district. So it doesn't sound like it does need to be changed in order to apply for that part, right? I think all they're looking for is at the most a letter of support from each of the two select boards indicating that we are in support of them applying to the core program.
>> Yeah, that's that's what I want to know because if we have to say okay we agree Wilham Middle School is a regional school therefore we'll pick up 20% or whatever the thing is. I don't think we need to do that now. >> No.
>> Okay. a very um I think a you know very brief and you know we understand and we support you know districts in this application you know
>> what's the current and correct you probably recall Mark I don't know what we got on miniog 60% >> 62 wasn't it >> 62 what's the current number they're offering you know what >> more than that we have model program >> oh the model gave us extra
I I think Long Meadow's program currently they're paying 96 of 151 million. >> But again, how about East >> How about East Lo referencing that cuz >> How about East Lo? >> Uh East Lo might be a little bit higher, but >> remember they have the district and pool also
>> car and but the reason I go to Long Meadow is because that's a that's middle school. >> Yeah. Well, true, but now has a long history of authorizing more than is supported by the MSBA and picking up the tab for whatever is true. >> John, do you know off hand?
>> Yeah. So, we don't know what it would be for next year for sure. We don't even know what it would be for this year. It's part of the accelerated repair that said, you know, you could sort of back test this and let us know what it would have been like if we had gotten last year. At that point, the reimbursement
for eligible costs was 57%. All right. So, it hasn't really dropped too too much, but >> that's for that's for a new school, correct? >> That was for the same that's accelerated. >> That's accelerated. >> But that's different. >> They use the same percentage. >> They use the same key word in there
that's a little more subtle is eligible cost, >> right? >> So, anything you decide to do that's not captured under that eligible cost >> is on your own. some something cool >> something district office and again the extra bells and whistles perhaps more meadow one
>> those are value judgments that you make that's part of the you know part of the feasibility it's like we really want to have x you know we as as a communities you know really want to have this thing you know you're going to carry full trade on that cost but you know >> so what the basics are very much covered
>> so what you're saying is there's a proposal out there where the ham and wraham are going to be responsible for 43% round of the cost to do something with the middle school situation, which is either repairing,
potentially a full renovation, potentially a new one. And what's the best use of that money we're asking for that 43%. Is it better to put it into a repair that's going to come back
five years later with more work and more work and more work and just keep the the tap running basically or should we address the problem right now like we tried to do 10 years ago Mark you were there Sue you were there and say okay time to put an end to it. So the real
>> we can do that but again as you said Don said how do we protect the transition at the same time you know educationally and physically that to me is an important component otherwise honestly
I'm all about plan B and C and not the repair you know like you say the feasibility study I think will wake up a lot of people you know We're tunnneled in. We've been there. We've been there and perhaps we are tunnel in. Mike, you've lived it for
a while. You know, same thing. And just maybe feasibility study does open up something else we should be doing. >> I would also say I would like to believe that if there's a vision through the feasibility study, >> it opens up an opportunity to say I can
accept things I wouldn't have accepted when I thought it was an option for permanent respon. Right. So, let's just say it's putting kids at eighth grade at the high school for two years. >> Mhm. There's a handful of people who will always object to that no matter whether it's permanent or temporary. But would the towns as a whole support that
for the vision that is being offered through this potential process? I want to believe the answer is we're willing to do a lot more with temporary >> corrections or fixes that we wouldn't be willing to eat if we didn't have the long-term vision to get out of that
>> whatever it is. That's a good point, you know, and perhaps Eric could speak that because he's really invested in that. I think people say, well, are those then the kids that are the bubble kids that are just thrown in, >> but perhaps we're saying, look, we could do that for two, three years, and these
are the extra safeguards we're going to put in place because of parents concerns and something like that might be >> right. So my other big question is is that it hasn't in my opinion hasn't really been totally addressed is there's a lot of issues that with middle school
we've talked about with ventilation and this and that and you know you said you kind of like segregated the zones but what are the actual issues? Is it one classroom? Is it every classroom that's the issue? Because moving the eighth grade might that won't do anything if every classroom is affected in that building. But is it half the building?
Whereas what's the good >> what's the what's the true the you know what's the >> how much it's compromised >> to speak to the you know overcrowding issue which you were referencing with students it actually doesn't matter
which group you move you know sixth seventh eighth grade are all about the same size if there was a way to move one of those grades you would you would make a great deal of progress with the overcrowding issue in terms of uh building conditions.
All of the building is essentially the same um vintage. So I don't see that there are any parts of the building that are um known to be significantly better or worse than others. You know, most of the classrooms are on the same sort of wing. So that whole thing is kind of a
piece. you know, when we had issues uh with well, right now the flooring, that's pretty much throughout the building. You know, when we had uh the issue with the the pipes that failed, that was in the front of the building, but because of the way you have sort of
that split level, the impact was on the first floor where all the the classes were because that's where all the water went, you know. So I can't really say that you have one area of the building that is more or less affected by the facilities issues than others to build on that just a little bit. One
thing I suggest is that that given that that's the circumstance if if we were um you know in process of doing something else you know how we approach uh that interim time period and making the building as functional as possible maybe
in a section or coordinant you know sort of approach. So, we might invest a little more in one section of the building, not a wholesale replacement or repair of some sort, but it may be a a sectional repair to make that space much more functional for a short period of time. Um, so you're, you know, your
return on investment is about the same as far as like percentage, but as far as the total investment is lost only because it's segmented to a certain section of building. So, you might be able to take that kind of an approach with regard to uh how to how to work with the building in the interim. Um, so I think those are all questions to to be
thought about. You know, there's no clear answers immediately and and certainly, you know, there's limits to how much you can segment some of it. And, you know, and and then of course, you know, what a price to do X versus Y, you know, those things. So, a lot of
trade-offs to be considered in that in that regard. Right now you're looking at you do you have any kind of ballpark for the costs if you did everything that you're applying to get done windows doors HVAC
is that a $5 million project $10 million project? Well, we know what the roof I mean so we know what the windows and doors are because well kind of know what it is because we got a ballpark when we um when we submitted our application and spoke to the folks. Um but do you
remember what that is? >> Not seven or eight million million. >> Yeah. >> And and the problem with that is the building remember if that was going to be our share >> the building. >> The problem with that is the building is assessed at $20 million over there. >> That's as I get back into that.
>> So now you get into the code issue, right? Exactly. I mean, it's you're going to hit that with probably easily. >> Yeah. >> So I get into this thing. You're looking at value and we're not going to build the Taj Mel. You're going to build a new middle school for this is probably a bad
number. $100 million. State gives you six. Yeah, I know. Invest the case. We all contribute. State gives you 60%. We're on the hook for 40 million. Hampton's on the hook for 8 million. 20%. or we're on the hook for last time we checked
>> 25 at least last time we took I think pushing 30. >> No, we're at 18 18% student enrollment >> at at the middle school or at the district level. >> It's all in the same district. >> It's all theoretical. >> Throw it out the 20%.
>> So 8 million. So we're on the hook for 8 million basically if we were to build a new one or >> as you said windows and doors don't qualify for anything. HVAC would qualify for something. Perhaps we trigger another system and all of a sudden both
towns have a bill for $15 million of which we're on the hook for three or four million or we could It sounds like M child all over again. >> Either we repaired an old car or we got a new car for >> 50% more. And so the way this all
evolved was the the school committee came to us around the question of uh should we go along with the accelerated pair program and then the the immediate question I was asking was are we going to make a commitment to this building for 30 years. >> The school couldn't couldn't answer that
question. So I was like okay well let's let's rethink this a little bit. Right. >> I'm sure you want a second abandoned building. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And so I think that's the qu and that's how we got to where we're at today. Is this the best use of your money? You're a taxpayer. Is that the best use of your money? Yeah. >> I don't want to put $7 million into a
building that we're not going to use in 10 years from now, >> right? >> Well, this is kind of And I'm sure it was new to you when they came to you. Inkling, but okay. This the first presentation. So that's why you know, Don, your thoughts. You've been around a long time since the wooden school.
>> When I went to school, we'd open the windows and some schools didn't even have windows, but that's beside the point. We had plenty of plenty of We had plenty of ventilation. >> Only 10 presidents back then. It was so much easier. >> It was so easy to remember those 10
presidents. >> I'm cheap. And as you all know, and uh I I think I have to say the the core program I think is probably what we need to do. Uh but we need to have a we need to decide how
we're going to handle the five or six years of those kids are going to be in there. So that's that's a serious >> I think >> and I think I think and I and I agree with Mike that >> if you have a vision and you I I always
as I always say to you look at how am I going to explain this to those 300 angry people out there you know and and you know so if you have a vision and you have a plan and you can say this is what it is this is how we thought it out this is why we're going there you're going to get a lot of questions but you know in
the end they're going to do the right thing in 2 minutes. If you can't explain it succinctly in 2 minutes, it's taken too long. And I think I personally could support the application for the core building
with a solid plan for that 5-year transition that the children that are going to school then on the way to the practically brand new high school are protected and taken care of physically and educationally.
And that point, I think it's the right thing to do because Mark said, you don't need another bandated building to be sitting in for 50 years because the building, I don't care how much more money you throw into it, is not going to last you 50 more years. >> 30 is the number we're using. But even
>> I'm just saying, you know, but you build a new one, it should be good for 50 years. >> Yeah. With proper maintenance like we're funding for miniog, right? >> Exactly. >> Oh, yeah. Although the ele the grammar the elementary school I went to in Springfield is still a school and it was
built in 1918. I was the first student in it. They still use it for elementary school. >> He's here all night. Please. Yeah. Thank you. >> One of those brick buildings with great bones. >> Yeah. Yeah. Brick buildings. Yeah. >> So, if I could ask a question of either Well, I'm gonna probably address it to
the administration. If the two select boards were to say yes, we support going to the core program. Do you think from your seats you could work with the school committee between application and acknowledgement of whether we even get in to focus on
some sort of a potential transition plan for the next 5 to 6 years post whenever we get invited into the capital into the Lord >> because I think that's what >> right >> you guys are talking about but I think does that pressure come off of you to
try and juggle 17 balls because now you have to juggle I'm not sure how uh you reduce the number of balls we're juggling. It sounds like >> we're juggling >> because because you you said at our last meeting that you're confident you could at least apply for the core program this
year. I think we all acknowledge that there's no guarantee we get into it, >> right? >> Yes. >> But if you apply for it, you go into a holding pattern while you wait to hear from them. >> Yeah. And during that time, and I'm not saying you come up with the crystal clear vision, but
you could start to put together if this were to go forward, this is how we might see >> where we don't write off any student while we're waiting for this to happen. Mike, I don't know if I got is the school committee thoroughly behind this.
>> Which which way are they looking to go? So there was one school committee member that spoke out very much against this idea >> and the rest of the committee was extremely enthusiastic about the thought process that it would be better to go to the court and and
approaching the select boards first before they even make a formal decision because of how important it is for this to be a community >> community and project. Okay. And um to your
question, Mike, what I mean a lot of the solutions for bridging the kids I think have significant cost. >> Like if we're talking about modular, do do we want modular buildings to be on the plate for John potentially to be able to work with, you know, and then
what would be the funding source? >> So my to to my point last time though was we still have a building that is in disrepair. we still have a building that needs an envelope to be sealed. And John's response was, we still think that there would be things we would need to
do to that. We'd have to prioritize the most broken doors versus all the doors that went, right? >> And I think that that's part of that bigger vision, but I think that part of what I'm hearing around the table is also >> what do we do about the immediate >> educational huge ones they took off
here, >> even if it's a two-year fix. And then ultimately at the end of the day, the towns are going to decide we support this or we don't. >> But I think that what I'm hearing, and I don't want to speak for anybody else at the table, but it's we're willing to go
along, but in order to really sell this, we need to know something about how we get from here to here. If we get into the core program, I would be surprised if we may not get into the core program this time around, but I'd be surprised if we don't get into it the second time around. I I I think it's inevitable
you're going to get into the core program. It just went >> well triggers. How much do you spend? >> No, I understand where >> the condition of the building. >> Yeah, you're going to get in whether >> No, I think it held us back before was they felt I think we were too affluent a community. >> You know, >> we're no more affluent than Long Meadow
or East Long Meadow. >> True. True. >> I think what he said was that can't fix the doors where the rodents were coming in or pests. Yes, >> we've got some doors we took off here.
You can have back if same exactly the same. >> Make an offer. >> How about you donate a kids? Your kids are in the building. Keep >> my kids. >> Your kids.
>> All right. So, where are we here? You need a decision. >> Huh? >> Huh? If you did you guys did you guys make a decision? >> No, we did. >> You took it under adisement or >> if if my colleagues were inclined to make >> I think the consensus is >> consensus or a
>> are you looking for a six member consensus >> be in order to do that tonight? >> Okay. >> So I don't know that for conversation >> if you took an actual vote what I would recommend is that at your next public meeting you ratify it as well. >> Take it again because it's not on your
agenda per se. Same thing here. Right. Okay. Sure. All right. >> In which case, we could just do consensus. >> All right. So, basically, you've given us a background for us to consider >> and I would suggest to our board that we're going to put this on our agenda for the eighth for a vote. I Ernay.
Okay. And you're saying the same thing for your consideration. >> I think I think yeah, the consensus is consensus. >> I think if we took a straw vote, we would say I think the same as you. But this gives us again it's got to be done properly. >> So, and we would have the opportunity if we
think about it. Is there anything else we want to hear back and we would perhaps invite you into our next meeting just for clarification. The one thing I would suggest, I think Mike said the same thing, that five-year plan, what's it going to take to address,
you're saying, look, I don't need all 30 doors replaced now. If you're saying you're going to be out of here in six years, I'm going to take care of these 10 doors. I'm going to take care of these 17 windows, not all 300 windows or something like that. And my five-year
plan, you know, I'm going to sell the house, so I'm not going to put the 30-year roof on. I'm going to replace, you know, >> have a roof. >> I'm saying as a personal thing, you know, kind thing. Yeah. >> But at the end of the day, too, we we also have um we don't know what the
physical study is going to result in. I think we all kind of think one way but an immediate like to John's point that we need to know like five year but we also need to know like what's now what do you need done now there's writings coming in that needs to be addressed now yeah >> what's the door looks bad it's a little
rusty but can I wait a year for sure that's next year you know then just like obviously I'm talking small items but just you kind of get the gist of what I mean what's the immediate need now and let's look at that >> and and I'm just going to say this so that it's at least been said I think I
would want to know in this conversation. Is there a willingness to consider any support from Hamen on some of those immediate projects if we're looking at scaling it down? And I'm not looking to pick what projects those are, but I just I want to keep that in the back of the
conversation. I don't want to just give up and say, "Wol's going to own this whole project and we agree to that." >> I don't know. I'm assuming that. >> It's a great question, Mike. Thank you. >> Just want to make sure it's been said, John. >> Well said. question or get that down to the minutes way other than
>> I also think we obviously Sam Boyd who was in fact a district staffer and is still the town of Wilberham's building person very much involved and I love the fact that you brought up the fact that you've got some leftover doors and things because honestly that could be a
great B right these two buildings were designed by the same architect >> I think it would be very curious to consider the possibility of any sort of an eye to given the reconfiguration that you've done. Is there anything here that might be able to be transferable?
>> Well, I think the right person right person to answer that would probably be Herb, right? >> You know, anyhow, uh that's a question we I know Herb and I plan on going on the tour on Thursday, so maybe that's something could be brought up then. >> Sure.
>> Okay. Eric, are you able to Thursday. >> Thursday is the morning tour. I think it's like 9:00 9:15. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Sorry. >> Okay. >> Motion. Motion forward.
>> Motion to further discussion. All those in favor? I >> Thank you all. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming over. It's a nice new place you guys got here. >> Thank you so much. Yeah.
>> Here. Take one for the road. >> We should do this more often. >> I agree. >> No, I'm serious. >> Short short straw >> that we're on. I think we are going to be doing this. >> Why are you here, Mike? Short straw. Are you vice chair?
>> I am vice chair. >> Okay. >> So, short straw. >> Exactly. Yeah. And um I I I may have been responsible for offering a significant amount. >> Okay. Well done. >> Bring that plate back over
here. Get that plate over here. Exactly. Take the one with the X on it. Did they? No. >> That actually went very well. Very well. Thank you. >> Very nice. A nice group of people. >> Well, now let's talk about legal defense.
>> You defend. Let's do it. >> Recommendation of the uh town administrator. the memorandum of agreement in front of you to um resolve the issue of the
any is it any PBA any PBA? >> Yeah. um the dissolution of illegal defense fund and u the recommendation is that they substitute that for the
uh Massachusetts Police Association's legal defense fund um for the remainder of the uh existing employment agreement with the union. The cost the monthly costs of that at least for the current year would be $310 per
unit member >> for the year. >> For the yearly 400 brings it down. >> Well, we're saving money. >> I move approval. >> Second. All in >> favor. All right.
Sign one of them. Town hall update. >> Town hall update. Here we are. Um it's week two. They're all kind of kind of >> this feels like home already
>> run together. Um I think overall everyone's getting settled in. Um, there are a number of ongoing projects and planned projects that we have funding for. There's others that we want to make sure that we have funding for
before we pull the trigger on those. Um, so we're uh the ones that we expect to be done sooner are u construction of additional well at least one additional uh doorway
separate the town hall and the library. Um, we have uh funding for uh the HVAC system installation upgrades for the library and the remaining office spaces that are not currently um are not
currently aironditioned and just a number of small projects trying to get everybody set in here. Um, in terms of, um, wiring, IT wiring, not electrical wiring. Um, we're just feeling it out for a period of time. Um,
we have a proposal for, uh, ADA compliant interior signage. Um, we'll have to refine that with, uh, with the consultant or the vendor that had proposed that. And then we'll have to figure out exactly what we want to do. We're figuring out uh the most efficient
way to operate the restrooms in the building. We obviously don't have hundreds of people here. So, we want to uh uh reduce the number of restrooms that are open and available to people cuz that's less to clean and less stuff to repair when it breaks. Um
other >> library move >> library. Uh so, the library is moving this week. They are uh close to the public this week and they started moving yesterday. Um >> couple days to pay for that.
>> They they did they did move over a lot of stuff a lot of stuff today as well >> during the storm. Um I still think their plan is to um open as they had uh projected which I believe is is next
week. Um, so therein and then we'll have to figure out um I know there's been talk before um from the board about establishing a or or whatever however the board wants to go forward with figuring out what to do with the townhouse. >> Mhm.
>> That's something that we'll have to >> figure out. >> That's got to be a priority for us going forward because I mean the questions aren't going to stop and it's it's >> question must be paid for it. Yeah, we're still paying we're still paying heat. >> Exactly. I mean, double
>> stop bill that's got a bit. I mean, >> we appreciate obviously the police are checking on it. Uh I believe you have Herb or Mark on a schedule to go in and just make sure. We've seen problems with boilers in the past. We don't want to come in one week and plan it flooded the seller.
>> What the eighth grade >> again? My father went to eighth grade there. Thank you. Yeah. >> Before I went to classical. Um, all right. Uh, and did you talk about a potential open house date?
>> Um, not yet. We still want to I'll coordinate with with the library on >> I mean they were talking >> February and I think I don't know if we really want to wait that long. >> Yeah, it's a long time. >> But we did see Ellen and she said they of course would participate in whatever we're doing and then they're going to
have a more formal one down the road. >> So that's fine. >> All right. Uh quick quick report. Uh I did sign the warrant yesterday because uh didn't know what the status of the town hall would be today if we'd have a meeting. I'll report that the AP warrant
for week 22 was $23,56.89. The uh receipts warrant payroll warrant was um $70,81510. All right. Okay. Tree lighting is going to be this weekend. Everybody attending? >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Okay. All right. It's 6:00 Sunday night. >> What time is that? >> You probably noticed some of the stuff that uh have been put up outside by uh Mr. Pnell, Mr. Marcelina. Looks pretty darn good. Um
I know herb and I are going to meet with uh Paul Marcelina tomorrow. I think the only question we have right now is is the tree actually decorated. >> It has lights on it. >> Oh, it does now. Okay, good. Um, we've
talked to uh the people who who do the lighting of the tree stop by. >> Uh, the fire department is all set with the parade in town and obviously transport. The
three middle choir is all set to be here and do the singing. The PTO is doing the bake sale, correct? >> PTO, right? PTO. >> Yep. >> All right. Anybody reach out to the Girl Scouts
about poss? >> No. Okay. >> I don't know. >> All right. So I think the plan is that we have the ceremony outside and then they can come inside. Mr. Mrs. Claus can be up on the stage, catch them up to see them. Selectman can go up and see them
as well and hope for the best, right? And uh thank you everyone for being here. U at that point Brian will make sure I think whatever it is you've coded for zone one basically so certain quarters are not they're not everyone's not wandering all around.
>> Yes. All right. So, I'll look for everybody both here say 5:30 Sunday. Okay. John, with the with the with the new space at with the captorium is do you
know of any plans to decorate the inside of that or anybody who might be interested in doing that? Thought Lauren volunteered to do that? >> Nope. >> You don't have any decorations. Where are they? We had some before.
>> Yeah, there were tons of stuff. >> An appropriate chair. >> They Mr. Mrs. CL an appropriate chair and I one of those >> it was before. >> How do we get it here? >> It's like a couch in the library they used to sit on. I remember that. >> Yeah, I remember they had a real red
chair or something like that. Yeah. >> Was it the library chair? Maybe it was in the Roford room like stored there or something like that. >> No, wait. Wait. Well, Brian can reach out. >> Take a look next door. >> Oh, Brian, you can reach out. >> We can take a look next door. See what's
>> Sure. >> Okay. Anyhow, like I said, um seeing Miss Marcelina tomorrow to with Herb to see what's happening outside. >> All right. Uh if I can backtrack, I just say there was
a proposal about the select vote office. That's really that's just a proposal at this point or is that like a give it a date and transaction? >> You want us to authorize that basically? >> Um, so it's a proposal at this point and
they're on a uh they're on the MHC uh contract. Uh the question is um I need to sit down with her and go through go through the the three existing three existing accounts that we have to make sure that there's sufficient funds in
there. I I believe there will be, but we just want to make sure and I'm yeah still waiting on the 90,000 for the state year mark >> and it's under the amount you would need our approval anyhow. Right. You don't have to bid anything that was under 10,000 for just that one room. So,
Right. >> Right. So, you can just they're on the state list. You can just cut them in order. Right. Okay. All right. Uh last week we had a nice meeting with National Grid. Uh two separate meetings. So, it was good to actually meet some of the people we've
talked to uh via email. So, they talked about the upgrade for the electric service to Colony Drive in Bay. Um they do need to do a poll hearing
for the the one at the road, right Lauren? So that part was all set, but the actual road work still needed the butters list at that time, right? >> But they were gung-ho getting it done. They
gave us, you know, incredible information. Uh Mark was here, Chief Bruno, and looked like it was going together pretty well. I mean, >> is it a little underground there? >> It is. So the only thing they need to do was a a new pole at the entrance
basically. Oh yeah. >> You know because of the strength of wires then a couple of I want to say hand holds but a couple underground things and a couple of transformer stations along the way as well. >> And this was going to be done post haste. I
mean you know they were going to try and start it as soon as they can as soon as the permitting was done by us. They still needed to get the application in for uh the road work part, but pretty cut cut and dried. Like I say, good to see them. >> It's to address voltage
>> uh discrepancies right within that area. >> Yeah. It was interesting though that they talked about, you know, like I said, we had heard from one resident, but talking to Doug who also lives in the same area had never experienced that problem. So the fluctuation is weird and
that might have to do with different strengths on the ground etc. Yeah. >> Could also pro could also be the local service to the house >> would be >> you know if it's like certain houses but not all of them >> you wonder if it's the road problem. So,
right. Uh the any correspondence aa McCor. >> Nope. >> Okay. >> Can I just mention one that I received? >> No. >> Well, okay. Good. Uh you re uh town of
Ammerst. Thanks to the Hampton uh fire department for their help with the uh fire in Ammerst. I believe they sent a >> tanker truck. >> Mhm. I forget what the name of the of the apartments were there in Ammerst, but like a
>> I thought you said that's where I thought it said where your niece was or something. >> Yes, but I don't know where she lives. >> Okay. >> Somewhere in Ammeris, our tanker truck was there for >> he can find his way home. >> So what they do for accommodations for I mean what do they all the people are wear now?
>> Yeah. What are they doing? Yeah. >> Um she has family around. So >> she stay with you. >> No. Oh, we have a lot of family around. >> Okay. >> Way down the list he is. All right. >> Yeah. But we sent the tanker truck up
there. Not we, but the Hampton Fire Department center taken truck up there for multiple days. >> Olympia Drive apartments. >> Olympia Drive apartments. That's right. >> Well, that's right. Yeah. >> And even with their even with the water system, they did not have enough water in their public water system to even >> Wow.
>> address the fire. So, they need to run tankers to help out. Oops. >> Okay. >> A massive incident. So, thanks to the Hampton Fire Department from town of Ambers. >> All right. Uh, select board member reports. Uh, I didn't have any meetings.
However, I did hear the board of appeals. There's a potential that there may be a need for another warrant article at the next town meeting for the North Road CPA property. I saw you do that, Don. Oh,
your head back up. All I had to report have nothing. >> Oh, did you quickly uh Brian's question though about the Verizon plan? >> Oh, yeah. I was actually looking at that email. So, at this point with the with Charter um you know, Spectrum going to
be, you know, turning on symmetrical internet at some point in the very near future according to them. Uh I don't absolutely I don't see a need to continue to pay that kind of money at this point for for that major of a project. So I I would support >> Okay. the insurance bonding thing. Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah. The that was at the pole the was it the licensing for the for the pole. Sorry I missed that part. The uh >> Right. So we currently had paid for when we were talking about doing the fiber upgrade project. Uh we had to >> pay a bond. >> Pay a bond basically for the Verizon polls.
>> Eric's the chair of the fiber committee and his recommendation concurs with Brian that the pole license applications. Yeah. There's no we're done with that. >> Yeah. We're done with that. Okay. All right. I got another one. >> Huh? Okay. Anything more?
>> Definitely. Really? >> Yeah. Unfortunately. >> All right. >> Um, so we're trying to get the OPM contract finalized with town council. >> Okay. >> And um send that over to uh CMS and for
the board for signatures. Um the requests for proposals and the responses have been received for the architect by the uh fire department building committee. I haven't heard from them as to a recommendation as to um who they're recommending um but I will
follow up with them. I believe they're waiting for possibly for the OPM to be on board to review um so that it was but I'm not positive input. Okay. >> Um the other thing is December December 13th, the police department's
having a toy drive from 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon at uh months and savings bank. Just got that email. And they'll continue accepting new unwrapped toys at the police department
through the 18th. Can >> Can we go back to the the architect? >> Yeah. If they selected the same architect that they have, which I assume they're going to probably do, is he going to build us again for drawing the
same plans? >> I believe the answer is in the question. >> I I would hope that the concept level plans that exist will not be redrawn and rebuilt >> unless they have unless his concept is to have a less a smaller building and
save us money. That's a concept. >> Don, one of the things on the upcoming has been the, you know, going back to municipal buildings improvement thing. >> We have put that aside as after we did
the move, but now is there any, you know, is it a good thing maybe we have that again and with the same people free form? Look, >> we got this building. What are we going to do about it? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I don't think it would be bad this maybe after the first schedule another one. >> Yeah, I think that's it.
>> All right. And then uh after the first they'll be on. I'm not sure what be whatever the second Monday is is going to be the state of the union. >> Okay. I think we're last year that it gives them a chance to recap the first six years of a budget, first six months of
the budget and see where we are. Then perhaps after we hear that now, maybe we'll schedule a the quarterly review, we'll have six months in the book and figure out where we are. >> One of the thing we got to do too is uh we got to start talking to our friends
in Wilberham about the uh regional dispatch contract that's up this year, right? >> Yeah, we had talked remember when Tony was here a couple meetings ago. We did talk about uh you know where we stand with that. Um
and uh I'd like to also Don you brought up a point about a couple I think we do need to maybe work on all the committees and check their appointment status and that goes back to Bob had developed that little handbook employee listing whatever and that had
the dates in it. That's something I will say I think Lawrence flat out right now. And I would suggest that you know we've had the the luxury basically of Ruth helping her out
through the tax work off which we heard doesn't go through December. And again right now any help she can give Lauren we're authorizing pay temp help right now. So, anything you can like slide off to her that would help us out. Let's get
that done. >> Do we need a different rig for that, Brian? >> No, it's just a minimum. It's minimum like a minimum wage. >> It's just a clerical rate basic. >> I mean, we have we've had similar positions that we paid most recently for
for planning essentially. >> Like Rose helping out Joanne. Yeah. Okay. All right. But again, same thing. You know those those things need to be done but maybe they can be delegated and we got somebody who's already comfortable in the position already. So
all right anything else to come before the board to adjourn. >> Dad anything second. >> Where's John? >> I don't know where he is. >> You didn't pick him up. We'll call him later and tell him what happened, please, will you? >> I will.
>> All right. Thank you. All in favor? Bye.