Good evening and welcome to the June 22nd, 2026 meeting of the Camden Select Board and Board of Health. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. Begin. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stand nation under
God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. Welcome to the Hampton Town Hall. We are meeting in the select board meeting room. We are broadcasting on Zoom as well as recording the meeting. Is there anybody else recording the meeting?
All right, seeing none. They'll all be watching it during the week later, I suspect. >> Oh, yeah. The clicks are like through the roof. >> Both of both of them. Exactly. You and me, right? >> Yeah. Checking to see how we look, how
they're here. All right. First thing, uh, minutes. Thank you, Lauren. First thing on order of business is the uh school meeting update. So, we talked about having another joint meeting with Wolverham
Select Board. Uh Brian has been chatting with Nick Bro over in Wolverham. And Brian, want to give quick update? >> So, we met last Wednesday. So I met with superintendent, assistant superintendent,
um the Wilberham administrator, myself, um Wilberham facilities director, I believe also their building commissioner, um and the principal of WA Middle School. and we were having a
discussion about the the improvement plan that the select for has asked the select boards have asked the district to put together from over school. Put it into context. The district with the consent of the towns
has applied for the core program um to do either full scale renovation for a new building or construct a new building for the middle school. And that's on an optimistic timeline now. That's probably
five, six, seven years, maybe all the way up to 10 years if there's approvals and approvals by Desi uh by the the building school building authority and the town. So, we're really looking for that building
to last another 5 to 10 years. And >> but the difference not being the typical capital project being 20 years plus. >> Right. >> So an abbreviated time frame. >> Right. >> Right. So the so the idea is that they would invest the district to put together um building improvement plan to
take the building from today through that period of time whether it's seven years. and we discussed that um with the district and they're going to be forming a a smaller subcommittee of um I think it's assistant
superintendent, the facilities directors from both towns um building commissioner of I think did I mention the assistant superintendent and they're really going to try to look into the oh the principal and they're going to look into see
what I think or what I' like what I suggest to them are the critical deficiencies within the building and what really needs to be done to make that a a positive educational environment >> for the middle school students from Hampton and Wilberham that are that are
going to be going to that building for the next 5 to 10 years. >> Um with the understanding that and this is going to get back to discussions that that the boards have had in the past is that that building is still owned by the town of
>> Oraham. Um, and there's a a certain understanding in the regional agreement about how quoteunquote capital improvements are to be paid for, >> which is by the building. And so that's where we left it. I left
the the meeting a little bit un I was a little bit unsure um that this what I think is a more limited scope of what we're expecting in terms of the improvements. Um, so I just
wanted to get a sense of or have a discussion with the board in terms of what's what's kind of our delineation in terms of capital versus non- capital improvements to the building. For instance, it was suggested that if we if
they have to install mini splits in some of the if they finish the mini split installation project in the building, it would likely likely require an electrical upgrade to the building. So the question and there were no costs associated with these things but that was an example that was given. >> So that's a cost that
>> depending on how we share it that would kind of be a sunk cost into a building that's going to last 10 years. >> So I think I think we're going to need guidance in terms of what projects are acceptable to hand in and which ones aren't
>> right. I think you talk about, you know, some of these upgrades that might be applicable to the educational experience and others that might be a core experience to the building, you know. So, they use the example of a roof even though that's done. If you did a roof upgrade, it would last the lifetime of a
building even past the educational use of a building. So, that might be something we'd say, well, that's got nothing to do with the educational part per se. You could even make that argument for the mini splits depending on what they want to repurpose the building for after that too. So it does
mean we need to see the list and then it's relevance to like you said and we all said in that joint meeting making sure the educational experience for the transition time if you will is at this
level or better and how are they going to accomplish that? >> Your thoughts? >> I agree. Yeah. I think, you know, more details too also. I mean, what do they need? Do they put need to put in a sub panel? They need a whole new wire, you know, a wire from the street to come in because they need a bigger service. So,
some more detail on that probably a little more needed, you know, to actually make a kind of an informed decision. But, yeah, I mean, we're not going to, you know, tear down walls and do major upgrades. We just need to make sure that the the students and the staff are able to continue to do the job and
learn in in a safe environment. I think that's, you know, just kind of doing the kind of basics to need to get that done until we can hopefully get into the core program, >> right? >> I think that's kind of >> Were they discussing the potential? I
mean, we all floated around that eighth grade transfer thing, but is that off the table now at this point, you think, with their >> was it discussed? >> I don't know if we really took a stand on that. I don't think we were saying that. >> I think we're waiting to see kind of how it went because I think at the end of
the day is that they say that, you know, if we take eighth grade and put it in the high school, we're putting P taking an overcrowding issue and putting another overcrowding issue into the high school. Now, we're kind of not we're just kind of moving one problem to another. We're not kind of addressing that issue. though is as long as I think
as everybody can be, you know, safe and educated in the same place, I don't see disturbing men workflow until unless it's educationally needed to do so. Um, I think for now we need to kind of think we're all on the same page. So, okay.
>> So, what's the plan going forward? I mean in your memo you say that uh if except that it's three to three you say so based on the case scenario three years to bid ready documents another two years for construction right but what if
the core program says what if the core program says you got to renovate that building is what what is the part didn't we talk about a feasibility study that if the core if they're accepted into the core program yeah the next step is they have to do a feasibility study to see if they need to build a new
school or renovate that school by adding on, you know, making the repairs and adding on rules. >> Yep. Yeah, that's the that's the planning part there. >> Okay. >> And they're and they're saying there and you're like, you said they were going to go to town meeting for that money. My
understanding that they were going to borrow that money, >> right? That's what they what historically happened back at Minota was they give notice to the two select boards and it's up to the select boards to exercise I believe they have 30 days down
>> the request to go to a town meeting or by failing to respond they give them permission to >> yeah so yes I didn't mean to require town meeting but that's the timing of what they would be >> right and for miniatur I know some
people complained about it that we seated the author already back to them for the probably half a million back then for the feasibility for >> but that goes but if they >> but it comes out of the bond at the end >> it comes out of the bond at the end right okay >> and I think they actually paid for it up
front out of END last time >> and the other thing is I got as expect as I expected when I asked the question what are you using $15,000 millions for I didn't get an answer I got this 40% increase. I know that. I
can pretty good at math. I knew that was a 40% increase. I wanted to know what they were doing with that money. >> Mhm. >> Seems to me if you have $105,000 in maintenance, you should have some plan other than maybe something will break, maybe we'll fix it.
>> So, I think we need a memor memorandum of we'll do one of these Iran Trump things. We'll do a memorandum of understanding, right? And see how that works. And we need that. We need that because I because
the current the current proposal to me does not bode well when they're talking about when they can't even give me an example. You put $105,000 in the budget for maintenance of the building and you can't tell me what you're going to maintain. Whether you're going to fix
one door or toilet or you know aspest aspis they have they have a uh they're going out to bid for that now that's $50,000. >> Well if you got 105 and that's 50 that's
still got 55 left over. >> Yeah but it did again same thing you saw was a 40% increase over the budget but less than they actually spent. So are they actually budgeting very well? >> Right. How do you level those levels? Right. So, all right. So, what's the
next thing? >> Um, they're going to be setting up a meeting with their subcommittee. I believe they're going to try for sometime next week. Um, am I right to when I think about the plan, I think the
timing, I think about um when I think about what they give us. What I'd like to see is project need. I'd like to see um in terms of project need, in terms of
projects that are on the plan, I'd like to see improvements to repairs that only address critical deficiencies. So, it means that not every single need is going to be met. >> Uh but the critical ones will be um I'd like them to focus on repairs instead of replacements.
They can repair equipment possible because you know if we're talking seven to 10 years we're going to be making we run the risk of making improvements that are that are long beyond
industries in a building. Um a lot of that equipment is older. So it's not it's not automated. It's manual similar to a lot of the ventilation here. It's it's not automated. So, um it kind of seems to me if it if it's in the
past is they can make it work now. >> Um as kind of the default um want to see discussion of the alternatives discussed and um project costs for the solution and the alternatives should be well
documented and well researched because as we found out with a recent project, we were able to find much significantly lower price. Yeah, we we we we need real costs, not guest estimates. >> So that's that's what I'd like to convey to the committee when they they reach
me. >> Right. But in terms of the timeline, a this is now middle of June, >> end of June. We have July, August, September when putting the warrant together. And their hope was to bring something to the fall warrant for the
regional agreement. And it seems like this be part of the langu, >> right? So it seems like if you're meeting, you're not kicking it off to August. You are starting the subcommittee talk so that you can bring both boards together at a reasonable
time. And I would think that's August. >> Yeah. Think that's >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then they are trying to bring the regional agreement language. Mhm. >> Well, they have they have 90% of it standard 95%.
>> I'm good with the way it is because we don't own the building. So, >> the core program may say, you know, Wilberham, you'll have to re renovate the building. Then we have that's a whole site. That's a different discussion, >> right? That's a whole different
discussion. So, it should just stay the way it is now. to last the latest thing that the superintendent said about the property until it becomes unless it transfers to the ownership of the region. >> I think that's a good way to put it. >> Yeah. And then they would have to
transfer the ownership because you know everything we put in there we don't we don't own that building and they they made the choice to close this one and to I say they the school committee made the choice to close this one
>> and to move the kids into that one. So >> all right so you haven't set the date for that subcommittee meeting yet. I don't think there's a final date yet. Looking at it last week. >> Thanks.
>> All right. Couple things on the agenda. We do have a public hearing scheduled for six o'clock. So, a couple of things on the agenda may slide over to after that so that we can hold the public hearing on time. Uh we do have a discussion a vote
on the age limit issue uh mandatory retirement. So Brian, give us a quick recap. Where this come from? >> Um, so this started
uh back at the before the most recent annual town meeting. Um there was a proposal uh sent to the select board about filing special legislation for an individual from the
fire department who um had special legislation from 65 to 70 and they were approaching the age of 70 and there was a discussion with the board and the chief at that point called
whether to file special legislation to allow that individual to passen age of 70. And I think at at that point what came from those discussions was a was a mutual decision to explore other opportunities with that individual that
wouldn't require that require them to be a uniformed member of the fire department. >> Um and I think that's where it have left in terms of that. And then um it was mentioned that there were other
individuals in other departments that um were over the mandatory retirement age that didn't have that special legislation. Um so now we're trying to rectify both of those situations. >> And it was thought there was an exemption because of certain statuses
and turned out that was not the case. That's what I said. That bears repeating twice. Very nice. getting a lot of speakers. Right. >> Anyhow, so as I said, you know, uh, you
know, now that we know what we know that there really is no exemption and you've researched that part there, question is, do we go ahead? The select board has the option to based on a
request, we could bring it to town meeting to take the next step to petition the legislature to provide another age exemption, if you will. >> Yeah. >> Has your research shown
many for 70 and over in in the legislature? Um I I didn't see any that were over 70. I don't know if if you had seen any others. >> No, the ones that we had seen were all 65 to 70. >> Yeah.
So um you know and this is not a reflection on anybody serving in departments. This is basically the town and liability.
You know, this is all the all these appointments that we do. We have a list, three pages of appointments we're going to be doing tonight. We are, if you will, by action of the board certifying that all these people are qualified to serve in those positions.
um the chief, and we'll be discussing that later, is putting his name out that everybody he's putting forward for his department meets all qualifications. Same thing with the fire department. Same thing with everybody who serves on
boards in town as well. So, we need to do that to make sure the town's protected legally as well. With that being said, just because it's not out there doesn't mean it can't be done.
And I speak personally that I know both individuals that are the 70 plus are good people and do a great job serving if there's an opportunity for them to continue to serve either in that role or a separate role that might not require
that certification. I know that the fire chief was looking at a different way to position Peter and perhaps in a mechanic role if I know the police chief we talked about is there a way that for instance Mike could serve but not as that type of role that
requires this appointment we don't know that yet there are many options there maybe it's a traffic thing maybe whatever so I think that's type of opportunity but right now in terms of reappointment I think our hands are tied
based on what you've told in that particular role for those two individuals. I don't see how the town can reappoint as of July 1st. What do you think, Don? >> No, I don't think we can. >> I don't think we can.
>> I agree. It's it's a difficult one because uh both individuals are stand up good. they qualify, you know, they can do the job, but there's there's a certain age age requirement that's not being fulfilled and it kind of puts the town on >> kind of a hook if something were to
happen or something. And then that's that's the unfortunate part. But >> again, like you said though, this that doesn't mean that an exception could be made moving forward. But I would encourage the chief to work with, for instance, Chief Puland and Chief Bruno to work with Brian to find a way that
these individuals can continue to participate in the town if they can. Dan, we've talked about that and that's something to research that. >> You're also proposing a policy. >> Yeah, that's
Yes. I wanted the board to consider policy. So this would help us >> before you >> what? Well, you never can tell what what would be the the ch the chance of the legislature approving special
legislation to up to you know 72 or 75 minutes or is it >> I I I honestly don't know. I mean there's currently there's currently proposals
legislative proposals generally pole legislative proposals that are looking to increase the age I think to 67 68 I don't know if they're looking >> without and so that would be the standard age >> that would that would raise that would be a standard >> I don't know if they have a history or
not of of being in favor of or against those types of policies. Well, I did know that and I know that our representatives were contacted and it seemed like they were certainly willing to bring it forward if they were so requested. So, you would
think that if they thought there was no chance of it, they would have put the kibash on it. So, that Mike, you want to say something? >> Um, I appreciate that the chair Mike Kane 39 prospect. Um,
>> we don't hold it against you at all, >> but I own property in town here and I'm a taxpayer. Maybe I'll sell things. >> You get the front. You can move up to the front row. >> So, um, maybe this helps a little bit because I've been into this pretty
heavily approximately three years ago because I was in the same predicament and worked with the state reps and the state reps that I've spoke with as as early as today, their aids and consult. What's totally different about myself is
that I'm not part of the Hampton County retirement >> and I that's what I alluded to before, but Brian has done the research and that we've been told does not make a difference. >> Okay, >> we have that. So now that we're aware of that, unfortunately, we can't continue
with it. >> Okay, >> before if you will, because you weren't in, as far as we knew, you were qualified to go. But now that SJC somebody has made that if you will ruling, we're aware of it.
>> Okay. So the reps said to me as early as today, >> but we're willing if the town requests to give you a waiver and those are those are conditional based on being totally postcertified and have completed all the
necessary training to comply with post and Massachusetts general. Um, the other piece is physical. And the physical part of it is because I'm still an airline pilot, what I do in Hampton, a community caretaking aspect, I take
the same uh liberty or path when I have passengers and I'm flying passengers in in in an airline or airplane. And what why I'm bringing that up is because my medical requirements are very very stringent. They're they supersede what would be asked. So, I love working in
this town. It's that simple. I, you know, I've been here my entire life. I've been here for 12 and a half years. I'm completely certified. And when I went through this three years ago and sat with the previous town administrator,
he wrote a letter to myself and the chief. It was really directed at the chief, but said that I am exempt from that uh requirement of needing a waiver. wasn't opposed to giving a waiver, but he said I don't need a waiver because your the waiver comply has to do with
the retirement system, >> right? >> And I know there's some controversy there, but I you know, >> well, like I said, that was the thought then, but then the court ruled that's not the case, but that only happened recently. >> They um yeah, I so I'm not you know, >> but going but going forward,
>> I appreciate what you're saying here and the board can can chip in. I would love >> if there was an opportunity for that. The next town meeting that's scheduled would be the end of October. >> Uhhuh. >> A positive town meeting vote typically happens and then it's forwarded to the
state legislature for their action. Is it a home rule petition or they call >> home rule charge? >> Yeah. So to speed that up. >> So that's a that's a possibility or >> I think it is a possibility. But I mean, you could certainly >> I mean, I heck you could you could
petition for a special town meeting. You get 200 people to sign up sign a petition saying Mike King should be I want the town to have a meeting and vote to send that off to the legislature. >> Um I Yeah, I appreciate that option.
>> Find 200 people. You have them pulled over and I think they sign. >> The only thing in my file to date are letters of appreciation. >> I know. I've seen them. I've seen them. Um, and we don't deny that. >> Even this weekend, gift certificates for climbing through a dumpster, if you
will, uh, trying to help a resident out over at Spring Metal. I really love working here and I I I want to continue to serve the residents more than your sister >> healthy enough and I'm I'm stay certified to do so. >> I agree. I'm saying whatever. >> I think the path forward
>> that's the path forward at this point. then I I appreciate your time and the opportunity to um let you know >> if there's a way that you can continue to participate and that's for the chief to work out with Brian because I mean we'd like to have you you know what you bring to the town is
positive and we'd like to have you stay with it if you can in a way that protects the town as well. >> Um yes. Well, that would be up to them to figure out even if there was documentation that I needed to to sign. Yeah. >> To relieve the town from any kind of
liability. I've talked to my own attorneys about that. I mean, >> and I'm I'm willing to do that because I >> Well, you can be thieve and can go on the road. That's fine. >> Huh? >> All right. Thank you guys. >> Sure.
>> My name is Jim Gormley. Hey Summers, Connecticut, but I've been >> the last successful applicant, I believe, from the town, right? >> Uh, so I I've been with Hampton in the reserves for since 2016, so it's going on almost 10 years, but um the only
reason I'm mentioning something is because you guys have talked about this coming July one being the the deadline um for sign or squaring us in again. >> It's the new appointment. Um, but I don't know if you remember, but a couple
years ago you guys there was a home rule. >> You've got your good till 70, I was told. Right. >> Is that in question right now? >> Yes. >> Oh, >> when are you 70? >> Um, another year and a half. >> He's got the wholeition.
>> No, right. No, I'm saying you're good till 70 right now because that's already been approved. Right. But I wanted to um bring it to your attention too. Um there are trying to get this here. So the town of
um Newton, Lemonster, and Rentham all have pending bills um to carry their officers, the reserves. So these are for retired officers, some until the age of 72, others till the age of 75. Mhm.
>> Um, so it is uh it has been done and there are towns that are still doing this. >> Like I say, it's good not to till new ground, so that always helps. Good. Thank you very attention. Thank you. >> All right. And so the uh we have a
couple other things on the agenda, but this is the time for the public hearings. And right now, uh, I'm going to recuse myself from this public hearing because Adam and I have a relationship, a business relationship.
>> Thanks for clearing that. So, right now I'm going to turn it over to uh to Don to hold >> this the hearing to order at 6 what is it? 602 >> 6:02 p.m. This is a hearing held before the Hampton Board of Selectmen under
Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 138, Section 15A, Monday, June 22nd, 2026 at the Hampton Town Hall, 85 Wilham Road to hear a public comment on application for a transfer of a liquor license or off the stick, Inc. 25 Allen Street,
Hampton, Mass, to the Mountain View Restaurant Incorporated. Persons wishing to comment on the reference application will be heard. Uh this was posted duly posted and a legal advertisement appeared in the reminder at 61126. I would ask anyone who is speaking on
behalf of the the applicant or opposed to the applicant to identify themselves first. Benjamin Coyle on behalf of the applicant >> and I'm Adam Ola the uh hopefully uh soon to be future uh owner of you know
snappiest I mean >> uh we were in receipt of the we're in receipt of the payment of $200 to the alcoholic beverage control commission the monetary transmitt form the department of revenue certificate good
standing the department of unemployment assistance certificate of compliance, the transfer application, the manager application, the vote of the corporation, Corey authorization forms for Adam Olivia, Kimberly Olivia, Gregory Burck, Ryan Provener, Natalie
Burick, Lindsay Paluso, and Helen Jordan Luke, who will be the manager, I believe, right? Uh we also have the asset purchase agreement, proof of citizenship for Helen Jordan Luke, the financial supporting documents, and the lease of the floor plan.
all in our possession and I I spoken to you about the state. >> Okay. And um what's your pitch? >> Here's my pitch. I'll give you an overview and you guys fire away any questions you might have. My name is
Benjamin Coyle. I'm here on behalf of the proposed lency Mountain View Restaurant Inc. I have Adam Olivia with me here. Helen Jordan Luke the proposed manager of record here as well. Kimberly Oliviveri is here as well. Orion
Preventure um who are proposed um owners of Mountain View Restaurant Inc. as you indicated. This is a an application for the transfer of the annual allcoholic restaurant or liquor license from Off the Stick Inc. to Mountain View Restaurant Inc. and the appointment of
Helen Jordan Luke as the manager of record. The location is 25 Allen Street, as I'm sure you guys are pretty familiar with. It's a one-story building consisting of a dining room only and three rooms which also include a kitchen and storage room. It's approximately
1500 square feet. Uh there's one main entrance but there is a separate entrance so it's really two and two according to the to the um records in the town. Seating capacity is 40. Um the current lency is off the stink inc.
Linda M. Bond is a 45% owner. William H. Bond is a 45% owner and Lindsey Peloso is a 10% owner. The new proposed Lency is Mountain View Restaurant Inc. It's a Massachusetts corporation. It was incorporated on April 9th, 2026. The
owners and officers and directors are Adam Oliv who's the president, 25% ownership interest and he's a director as well. Kimberly Olivy, treasurer, 15% ownership interest. Gregory Bureak, secretary, 12.5% ownership interest. Ryan Preventure, vice president, 12%
12.5% ownership interest. Natalie Bureick, director, 12.5% ownership. Lindseay Pelos, 12.5% ownership and director. Um, both Adam and Lindsay both have ownership interest in existing
licenses. Adam is the proud owner of uh owner of ShakerB, Inc. He has an ownership interest in that license. And Lindsay has an ownership interest in Off the Stick, Inc. He's going to continue on for continuity purposes with the new business venture. The occupancy of the
premises is going to be a lease which you guys have. The landlord is going to be 25 Allen Street LLC. There's a the real estate is being purchased in conjunction with the the business assets as well. So that's going to be a new business entity. The lease is to begin
upon approval from the ABCC and then closing on the transfer of the license. U the first initial term is just one year. So we can figure out what the appropriate fair market value rent is. Um and then it will um potentially change after that. The rent for the
first year is going to be $3,9529 a month. >> That's correct. >> Uh which is $47,425 a year. Purchase price of the assets is $50,000 plus the inventory provided the financial statement that shows that there's available cash for that. There's
no financing in that regard. manager of proposed manager of record is Helen Jordan Luke who's here with us tonight as well. Um she's currently working at Shaker Bowl as the cafe supervisor and um she's doing a great job over there. They're looking forward to having her
come over to the new business and help train people, make sure that they're doing everything they're supposed to do as it pertains to the service and sale of alcohol. She is tips trained. All of the employees will be tips trained. Uh she's going to be on the premises 30, 40, 50 hours a week, whatever it takes
in order to make this a going uh business for them. Uh anticipated hours of operation are going to be 10:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. 7 days a week. This is a new business venture forum, so of course there's going to be some trial and error. They're going to see what they can do to make sure that it's as viable
as possible. So, we're respectfully requesting that the board approve the transfer of the liquor license from the current lency off the stick inc to Mountain View Restaurant Inc. and approval of Helen Jordan Luke as the manager of record.
>> It's Are you buying the property, too? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And uh 10:00 a.m. to 10. Is it still going to be seasonal? >> Yes. Um, I think the uh the goal here would be to maybe someday expand
operations, but right now it's seasonal. >> Okay. >> That's how we tell it's the seasons when it opens and closing up. >> Yeah. >> Any questions? >> I really don't. I mean, did a great job addressing everything forward
in opposition. >> Is anyone here in opposition? Hear any comments and opposition hearing? None. I'll take I'll take a motion to approve. >> I'll move approval. >> Second. All in favor?
>> I to close the hearing. >> Second. All in favor? I. >> Thank you. Good luck. Thank you. Yeah, they got a sign here someplace. >> Well done, Donna.
>> You look at the thing to sign in your folder. Mark, >> thank you. So, a couple things to run beforehand. We had some requests for vacation time rollover for those. Uh, typically the board will
do it requests up to um one week and we ask that typically it's used within the first quarter typically done right. >> Yeah. So we have so Joanne five days we're all aware
she's gone for uh one to one week >> aka five days >> one week >> uh Karen six days Lauren two days Mark five days huh
bus >> well I'm thinking obviously it means we're giving you too much vacation time just the so busy I can't >> something like that. >> Yeah. And herb four days which I would certainly we hear all the time. >> Yes. Right.
>> So we have these requests and uh again Joanne five Wendell five Karen six Lauren 2 Mark five herb four and I would entertain a motion to allow the carryover request to be used uh by the
September 30th of 27 26 to move. Second. All those in favor? >> I I thank you. >> That wasn't the whole reason you were here, Mark. >> Um, another thing that typically done, we did talk about a summer schedule where we're going to meet hopefully
every other week in July and August. The issue with that, same as last year, is that we typically serve the sign the warrants on a weekly basis. Uh last year we took a motion to allow the chair to sign the warrants on the off weeks in
the absence of the majority of the board and then report the balances as signed at the following meeting. And I'll entertain a motion to do that again. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I thank you. Speaking of
uh the off-week things, before we get to the next thing, Brian, it looks like we potentially will need to meet on the 13th with the advisory and the town >> because to close, if she said she wanted to close on the 17th, we need to sign
and approve all transfers and have the advisory here as well. Okay, >> a little something extra in the envelope this time. >> I'll change my whole life for this. >> The tournaments are on Monday, right?
>> I don't think I have one that day. >> You can zoom in from the >> before, right? >> All right. So, is that was somebody away that day? >> The 13th.
>> Was that a bad week for somebody? Was that a bad week for somebody the 13th of July? No. >> No. Good. >> It is. It is what it is. >> Okay. So, the other option is to say, look, you want to skip the put everything on the
13th and not do the 20th as well, but that's that potentially leads to three weeks off. So, all right. Next discussion with the new possible new town council KT Law. >> I had guessed it was you because you
you're the only people we don't recognize. So >> we ourselves away. >> I think so. Welcome. >> Thank you. >> A little nervous with all these lawyers in here. >> I thought I thought they were nervous when the police chief was here.
>> Hi, I'm Don. Lauren Goldberg have been exposed. >> Good evening. >> I'm sorry. >> Eric and Don and you know Brian of course and Lauren >> real brains behind the uh operation here.
>> It's the name. >> The name. >> So we put out a request for quote and proposal and uh you responded. This is obviously your first fora into municipal law. >> Yep. >> Decide to try it and see what it's like.
Yeah. >> You read it's easy. >> So, u obviously your firm has a tremendous reputation representing towns and cities in the Commonwealth. Uh we're aware of that. I think you What's
the closest town you do right now to us? >> Where? >> Where? >> Where? >> Don't do it. We got to reindul just >> there's a number in there. >> Okay. Um,
one question I had and this a little informal here. Don't mind. >> Um, where would you be coming from if I mean I don't know where you all grow from tonight, but we do like the physical presence at sometimes. You know, we
understand this is a very my gosh, you know, since co hit, it's a very, you know, non-physical environment we live in now with the Zoom and the teams and all those WebEx things and whatever. But we do like to put faces, you know, in
the room when we have a discussion. >> So, is that something your typical you all didn't drive in from Newton tonight? >> We I I drove from the office. I drove from the office as well. >> Which is which is where?
>> Boston, but we represent a number of municipalities. I particular have a number of um uh towns that I represent in Western Mass and I do the drive quite frequently. I am from New York originally, so I drive six hours there, six hours back in a weekend. Um so this
drive is nothing to me. I'm used to it and I I love coming out here and the the scenery. Um, and we always give ourselves plenty of time to to get to your meetings on time. >> Is there a more local office than Boston? Is there a Worcester office or a >> We have We have an off We have an office
in Worcester. We have an office in Northampton. >> Oh, really? >> And we use those really as kind of like stopping places. So, if we know we have court or if we have a night meeting, we might drive to there, work from that location, and then continue. We used to have another um in Lennox, but we have
since closed that office. Um, but as Nicole said, we travel throughout the state on a regular basis. It's really part of our jobs. Um, and we're very used to that. It's um, you know, someone might say, "Oh, well, we didn't give you enough notice, but we needed you. You
know, we need you for tonight." >> Most of the time we look at the time and we say, "All right, we get in the car right now. We can make it." Um, so we we haven't as as a firm, we've had no problem um representing towns that are in Western Mass. >> Okay. I would say that I don't I don't
know looking back at the history of Tatonic Hampton in our legal services uh we've been using Dhy Wallace for I'm going to say 30 years >> you know back that Paul Dory was there
etc and we have had no issue with that uh we didn't have a contract we just kept using >> Yes. >> Um but they are scaling back municipal law in their firm and we're seeing this actually in quite firms in Western Mass. >> Yeah. uh talking to some of them they're talking about it's a der of qualified
candidates coming out of school to handle it so more opportunity for you all that is I want to say your forte but you do excel in that department >> well this is we about 98 and a half% of our entire business is municipal or
other public sector entities transit authorities regional um regional transit authorities water sewer um fire districts uh We represent Nantucket County. We represent Barnstable County. So really, we are a public sector law
firm. We just happen to be in the private sector. Okay. >> And we don't, you know, a lot of other firms that do what we do have other businesses that they are also pursuing at the same time. >> And you know, from our perspective, we never want to be arguing against the
interests of cities and towns. So we stay on, you know, this side. um we're only you know only for municipalities. We don't represent uh private entities against municipalities in any um instances and we um we don't represent
employees against municipalities either. So we really our entire business model is just focused on municipalities. >> We appreciate that. I mean, one thing Don has mentioned, I think we talked about this before, is that it would be nice to have a firm that's more I'm going to say in tune with legislation
that affects us. So proactive as opposed to reactive, would you say? >> Yeah. And you know, that could be something with a firm that's targeted towards that. >> Yeah. And if I may, sorry, just talking. Um, so that is something also that's
really important to us is making sure that you know what's pending. Um, you know, there was that recent uh law that was adopted allowing an extra hour for licenses uh alcoholic beverages licenses to operate um and allowing um districts
to be designated for outdoor drinking. So, those are the kinds of things we're keeping an eye on that as they come. We're often issuing what we call eupdates, which I were at the end of your packets. Um really we do invest in keeping up to date any important case
that comes out you're going to get an e update from us and it's not just that you'll see on paper that we're following along. It's that when something comes up here we say oh we just dealt with that in this place. We know this case that just came up. Um and you know we think
it's a real uh benefit to our cities and towns. Obviously, our rates are set to allow us to be able to make that kind of investment, but we um you know, we really feel that the the rates reflect the expertise. And you know, Nicole can
talk about her um responsiveness, etc. But for for the firm, it's, you know, very very important to us that you get what you need when you need it. Um we understand, you know, you often have people at the doors and give us an answer. Um, and so, you know, we really
try to to be able to do that as as part of kind of our our overall setup. >> We don't have a huge budget for legal. And again, >> we may not be like some towns that anticipate >> spending the whole thing. Our budget is like snow and ice, if you will. >> Sure.
>> We only have one storm. We're going to have a lot of money left over. >> Yes. So, >> uh, we are very fortunate that our town administrator has has a law degree. >> Yes. So, you know, he can eliminate the nonsense, if you will, rather than
bothering our legal department with it, if you will. >> Um, what I'll get right to the the heart of it. What are your rights? >> Well, in in our proposal, we gave three choices in terms of how to kind of bill.
One is just a straight hourly billing, which most of our clients use, $250 an hour. We have gone up about $10. We have gone up $10, not about $10 a year for several years. It's not a guarantee that we go up every year. We're not likely to
ever go up more than that per year. Um, you all know there's a huge health insurance squeeze that's affecting us, the tariffs, all the same things. Um, but we're very conscious of that. Uh, so that was option number one, just hourly billing. If you pick up the phone and call us, we bill. We bill in six six
minute increments. So, we're on the phone for three minutes. You still get build 0.1. Um, but you know, it's um it is a very efficient way of billing. You our bills will show you exactly what we did during that time and they're drafted
to be able to be disclosed without you having to go through to say is that attorney client privilege, is that, etc. So, great record of that. That's option one. Option two is a fixed fee option. Essentially, you pay us a certain amount
each month for general municipal services. And we set that looking at your budget, kind of thinking about the towns that we have that are similarly situated. We set that at $3,000 a month. That essentially means unlimited I sound
like I sound like T-Mobile, unlimited um phone calls and emails and um opinions about general municipal matters. We also do include if it's important to you that we come out to a meeting uh or a certain
number of meetings a month and we make that work. Again, it's if it's important to you, it's important to us. And then the last option is what we call a fixed fee plus option, which essentially is allin, meaning you pay the same amount
every month regardless of how much you use and regardless of whether you're in litigation. So that means that if you have five lawsuits going on, you're still paying that fixed fee plus. We pay up to 3,000 a month. Um I'm sorry, up to
3,000 per case. So if you have, you know, five cases that you institute, we're going to pay $3,000 for each of those cases and then we pick up billing after that. Um the other thing that's excluded there is labor employment. Uh but other than that, that's kind of the
all-in version. And if your next question is why do clients choose one over the other? Um you know those clients essentially where they really feel like they need backup and they want to just be able to call when they want to. Those clients will often choose the the fixed fee model where they're not
build by the minute. Um we still account for our time like that but it's not built like that. Um, and then, uh, you know, people that that, uh, are more comfortable kind of one telling their internal staff, hey, every minute
counts. We're not just calling for no reason at all. Uh, and who want to be more in charge of what questions get asked and by whom, they're more likely to choose that hourly rate. when we started, well, when I started with Dohy,
you know, we were using one of the partners there and he was big on, look, if you call me and keep it under 10 minutes, I'm not billing it. It's too much trouble for me to like do the paperwork. >> Yes. >> So, he really pushed on five minute phone calls and you were covered. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> well, we >> one of our reason lawyers, if you if you
called and they were in the car on the way to work, Yeah. it didn't count. >> There you go. I like it. >> We we typically will wave really short conversations. It never gets to the bill. you would never see it. You would never know it. Um, and if you know, let's say, uh, you had a huge month
where it was really difficult and we know end of year is coming and your budget's tight, we're respectful of that. I I'm essentially the person at the end of the line who would make those decisions. So, Nicole would talk to you or you would call me directly and we would have a discussion about what the town can handle um, and deal with it
that way. We do try and make make a point of not having departments contact legal services right away. It comes to our board. Are we going to allow that? Come to Brian first. See if you can knock it off before >> Yeah, I saw we saw
>> then on occasion. Okay, fine. Board A, you've got something going on. You need to reach out to them directly, but be reasonable. >> Yeah. >> You know, don't be calling with every little thing. That is how that is how it works in most towns, right?
>> Um and we would if you didn't use that method and you were going to do, you know, the hourly rate, we would say, you know, you should think about using a form um or making sure that it goes through um through the chair, I mean through the board or through the town administrator. We also really try to
encourage when even when a board has access to have that contact be through the chair. We don't like one you have board member calling up with kind of one story and then another one with a different >> angle and that can lead to inconsistent advice which we that's really important to us. We give out consistent advice.
>> So we have the monthly things and of course we have the town meeting stuff which is bylaw review. Don has been working hard with the planning on like battery storage things like that. And I think what you talked about before with the guidance from the state etc. Some of
the bylaw things, as I said before, my one of my favorite terms is we don't want to till new ground. >> You know, we always the fact if we're putting a bylaw, probably three other towns in this area at least have already had it approved by the AG. >> Yeah.
>> And your expertise would say, look, you want this thing approved. Change that one line right there. You know, >> we were just looking at your B. We're like, oh, these are pretty good. Um, but that is that is exactly it. and you know um our colleague Carolyn Murray is one
of the leading you know people in that area and she has done a ton of work um at the you know with the actual statute and with the regulations uh and that's a huge benefit um and so if that was on your warrant which I know it just was basically Nicole would have
seen that she would have picked up you know the phone or walked down the the hall to Carolyn and said can you take a look at this is there anything I should give them a heads up about >> right I mean the biggest thing we had thing was 82 probably because I was such in flux anyhow. It was hard to get it right.
>> It seemed like the guidance from the state was changing by the week. Anyhow, >> and I will say that's the benefit of working with our firm. You know, you are having that one-on-one contact through me and and through Alex who will be the second, but you also have, you know, 40 plus attorneys that specialize in each
of these areas that are working behind the scenes to make sure that you're getting the most up-to-date and accurate advice on all of these issues. When you talk about the the emails, if you will, coming out, the are those part of the billing? >> No. >> Or is that just part of the service?
>> That's the benefit to you. We also come out and we do trainings as well once a year at no charge. >> Four times a year. >> I have to say the circuit writer used to do that. They would do an ethics training. That went away years ago. >> You can request it still. Um but yeah,
we and we love doing the trainings especially when we come in as you know as town council because gives us a great chance to meet everybody to kind of >> that'd be fantastic. The turnover sometimes you don't realize that we have seven new board members on different committees that have never gone through
that type of thing. >> I have one I have learned tomorrow that I'm doing in this area. So, you know, um I I do think that they're great and they also allow us to interact with, you know, different committee members, different board members as well, >> and we really appreciate that, too. >> Oh, it's all about the thing about, you
know, the discussion between board members and how you have to be careful about that. I always tell the story about I went to, you know, the annual meeting at the Hines, if you will, >> the MMA >> and one of the workshops was on that subject, >> you know, oh my gosh, you can't have two
members talk about it. You know, that's a violation >> and one guy raised his hand said, "Well, what if you got a three member board? You bump it into Joe at the hardware store." And like, hey, you walk the other direction, >> just talk about hardware. That's it. speaker said, "I know a board on the
Cape, three member board, and two of them are married to each other." And the guy says, "Well, they've been married in 20 years. They're not talking to each other anyhow." It's funny. >> Um, yeah. So, that's a great example of the open meeting law. So, that's something that's really, you know, we
deal with public records, open meeting, and conflict of interest law issues every single day. And um each of us, you know, I would say is an expert in that area. But we also have Janelle Austin um who is literally a statewide expert. She does this speaking at the mass um
continuing legal education. Uh um you know, and and individually we've all done trainings for the MMA uh for the MMLA, which is the Massachusetts Municipal Lawyers Association. Um, you know, ALS it's
as as we started with this is our entire business. It's what we care about. >> Well, I like the focus of it and like you say, OML ethics things. I mean, we all take the online tests. >> Yeah. >> Which since they walk you through the right answers anyhow, you can't fail them. >> Yeah.
>> But having the up close and personal explanation, I think really helps. That's the thing. So, that's my stump. Uh, Don, >> I never thought it would end. Pass it. Come on. >> Collective bargaining. Do you guys get involved? You
>> does your firm get involved in actual collective bargaining? >> Absolutely they do. We have a a very wellestablished labor and employment practice area. uh if you know you guys decided that you needed help in that area whether kind of just help preparing
your proposals and or being part of the bargaining team. Our attorneys are labor and employment attorneys do that every day. >> And have you had the experience with a lot of the towns the the health insurance and they're looking at other options joining the state you know
>> we have we actually we have an e update on that which I'll send to you no matter what. Um and then uh but yes, we've helped a number of municipalities navigate the switch from the you know regular health insurance into the uh state health insurance program um and you know negotiate that with the with
the labor unions and and make that happen as well. the savings group pay their bill. what we have ahead of >> here. I don't have much to say. Just the fact that you guys have such a team >> just as makes an incredible ask to to
our small town >> nice to not saying that our current council wasn't fantastic, but having that backing is justful. I do like to focus through one thing so you don't 12 different conversations going on and then just keeping a record
of it and they said and they said and they said and then all of a sudden maybe there is an OML just because there were so many fragmented conversations that's a now it's cleanup time after that. >> That's right. >> So >> yeah, we we believe strongly in the idea
of preventative uh counseling. So you know obviously coming down coming out and doing this training is for us as well. Um but you know the the benefit of it is rather than say 3 months in why didn't you tell us that blah blah blah you know we have a chance to say it kind
of set expectations. Um and it's always a good time to do it after the election season when people are new on elected committees and after you've made your annual appointment. So, um, and then we also we like to come in, uh, for staff as well because it, you know, we're out here at no charge. So, if you know, if
if that's something that would be attractive, we'd come in, we'd do a meeting with the staff. We'd meet all the department heads um, and do the same open meeting, public records, conflict of interest law training for them. They have different responsibilities. And so, there can be a big benefit of making
sure, for example, that your agendas are all correct and and prepared correctly, >> right? The only difficult I'm sure you see this in other communities. Well, that there's so many committees and boards that are volunteers. >> Yes. >> And it's an evening thing and that's why my concern was like you all are driving
two hours to come out here. >> The time change and everything can be >> the time change. Yeah. >> Heck really far away. >> Um, thank you. So, but we certainly appreciate that. Um, >> explain to me again the fixed fee. >> Yeah. Well, first, how do you do you
work on an annual contract typically with most of your communities or just as at will? We can never bind you to stay with us. >> Um, we have an agree. If if you were to hire us, we would have an agreement. It would say the hourly rate and it would
say or andor the fixed fee relationship, whichever that was more like an engagement letter than a contract. You always have the opportunity or the option to change. As I said, we can't make you stay with us at will. >> Um, so it's it's at will. Um, and then
every year, typically when it comes to appointment season, we'll send around um, an updated letter that if we've changed rates telling you, if we haven't, telling you um, and we have certain specialty legal services, like if you said we need to look at our entire zoning bylaws, we're going to
start and do A to Z. We charge a different rate for that. That's not what we would consider a typical town council service, but we're very transparent about what those are. You get them with your rate letter. um you know things like I'm working uh with a town clerk on
a recount. So that's a recount is outside of the regular um price arrangement. It's not a typical service. Um but again those are in a list and you can look at them and again we we try to build a long-term relationship. We're
not looking to come in and make some money and be on our way. That doesn't benefit us in any way. uh we want to come in you know be part of a team be part of VR team so the money aspect of things even if you were to do for example the fixed fee which is you pay a
certain amount each month and I had proposed $3,000 each month if you went in that direction and it turned out you were using $1,500 each month I would see that and I would say well then our number isn't right we're not looking to make money off of you we want to come out as close to even as we can um but
you know we we went in and one of the town's actually on the northern uh part of Massachusetts and they said they were huge users of legal services and so I you know we came up with a number that they were comfortable with and three months in I did look at it and I was like oh they are not huge users of legal
services and we reduced it right away so again it's it's a dialogue it's not a one-way street in terms of the money >> do we do we need to decide we need to decide on the the rearrangement tonight
if we >> I don't think we >> we just have to we just have to vote if we want to hire them or not, right? >> We necessarily don't have to vote tonight either, but >> don't don't ever say that. >> I know what the nature of the board is,
but what's the >> No, I if we if we vote to if we vote to hire them Yeah. Then you can we can decide what a fee arrangement we want, >> but we got to do something by July 1st, I would think. >> Well, I thought
>> yes, >> the conversation with authority was that they would not just walk away if they had something going on, which I'm sure you can respect as well. >> You know, will be will be with us through the transition, >> right? >> That's in my experience, that's really helpful. >> Right. Yeah. Okay. So,
>> and we don't have any pending cases, do we? Other than >> just an ATB case. >> What? just an ATB case. That's >> typical, you know. Yeah. Which we're hoping to wrap up pretty soon, I'm told. >> In in terms, >> we really we've really been behaving ourselves, >> as far as you know.
>> Great. What we do often see is a board vote to direct the town administrator to negotiate an appropriate rate or the town administrator and um one of the board members and then come back for that and approve that separately. >> So, we're happy. You know, obviously we'd be thrilled to be council. We'd be
thrilled to work with you. Um we would work together to come up with a rate that makes you all feel comfortable. >> Okay. Is that the direction you want to take? >> Correct. >> Let's do that. >> Uh I make a motion. I said >> make a motion what she said. We hire we
hire KP Law and direct. >> Well, we direct the uh negotiate a contract with org agreement with KT Law regarding the fee. Thank you. And >> and me, whatever you are. >> All in favor?
>> I There you go. That's it. Wonderful. We're just a ringer. I just, you know, like like Corey checked the whole thing with you all. >> I love it. I love it. Well, that's really exciting. And we'll be in touch uh and try to get something to you as soon as possible. >> Great. Thank you. Thanks for meeting us.
>> Appreciate it. Do >> you need directions back or anything? >> Put my hand out. Thank you. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> They found the new town hall. >> Appreciate you.
>> Good night. >> Good night. >> All right. Fire department building. >> Barely recognize you guys. It's been for It's been forever. You got to be on camera.
You coming up too. So, as we left the last meeting, my understanding was the board wanted to look at a foray >> um or a let me back up necessarily for bay, but they kept it within the
existing >> and um we do have that. I think Brian you have them sent to you. >> Yeah, we don't get kicked up as soon for the time. >> So that the um actually we have the the one that includes both buildings the the
existing building along with the >> large one sent to Brian. Yeah. But before we even get into that, which um obviously we're prepared to talk to, uh we would like to bring up one uh other proposal that we reconsider the
five bay configuration. Um after we did some looking at the site and at our plans, um our our interpretation of the big sticking point is the amount of that we need for example the right of way from the
townhouse property uh along with uh 12 foot of the well. If we reconfigured the parking so that it was one way in um that would minimize the amount of excavation that would have to take place on the north
side of the building which is the embankment res. So minimize the incur embankment and then have one way out um that while we still have control of the townhouse could go out through that property. >> So you're saying keep it as a share driveway
>> out. So yeah. >> Okay. um it could allow well keep it well we still have control of as long as it doesn't interfere with anything but if we we the town sells the property for example and we lose control of that property then uh we could exit out
through the um public works >> yeah I took a walk through the property yesterday with the chief and one of the things and we talked about the previous meeting that was a question mark was setback and I looked at Lance of course you We have decades as building
inspector. >> I talked to Wendell and his exact quote was I mean it does have to go to the zone board of appeals, >> right? >> Uh there's no >> without an appeal. What would be the setback required in a min >> 30? Uh >> is it 35
>> 35 ft? Yeah. >> There's no exemption for I know some municipals have some exemption but not setback I thought. >> Correct. >> Right. Okay. >> Correct. There are communities that do have exemptions for fire departments. >> Mhm. and police departments, >> but they're already in the Bible.
>> We do not. Hammond does not. >> Um, so we'd be looking at uh >> let me tell you what Wendell's response was here at first. Uh, I had a long discussion. He's on vacation until tomorrow and he ended up by saying, "I
don't think there's going to be an issue. I can't imagine zoning not allowing it." >> So, we need to go to zoning for variance basically >> that there's a hardship basically. Hardship, right? You can't build to the north because of the embankment. >> Correct. >> So, >> and obviously it's a public safety
issue. >> Right. But right now, but right now >> required no matter which configuration. >> Right. But right now, the property line cuts through the fifth bay. >> Correct. Correct. >> The way it is right now. >> Correct.
>> And if you shifted it down, you'd have to leave some setback. You're saying, "Okay." Mhm. >> We'd be looking for a variance from 35 ft down to >> 3 ft enough for a retaining wall or
>> Well, I mean, we did talk about the fact that the parking we're all familiar with town hall parking that the parking spaces that are delineated are actually double high if you want to call it. I've been out there many time people are parked in that space and there's another
car parked up behind it because there's enough depth to it. So, if you drew that line through halfway through the parking the lined space, if you will, >> you still would have enough room for a parking place for the driveway. >> That's correct.
>> But would the building be up to that line inside the parking place? >> Stay within 3 ft. >> Right. >> So, it' be no different those cars be parking up to the side of a building like it was their parking place. >> Exactly. Given the grade changes that it
actually would be see if like taken out of the ground >> because of the grade change >> because you got a level. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So it actually wouldn't be even if somebody on a little be hitting solid concrete, not the building itself, >> so to speak.
>> You're going to use rocks. We have plenty of rocks. We're not wasting your concrete. You guys suspend it like you can. >> Um and of course you got Pacific in front too >> right now. But we're thinking that the septic is gonna probably end up in the
back that septic system. I don't >> Well, probably even if you move the line, it's probably extending a touch over possibly that line. Who knows which way the fingers are going or whatever >> the existing shaft exist, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So, that would be a thing.
>> Yeah, potentially. Yeah. >> That exists either way. >> What's this red line? And of course, and of course that's where they want to move it because that's where >> we're going to go back to the same damn thing we did before. That's on the town hall property, right? >> It's that it's that it's the row of
parking places that are currently in line. >> This started >> and the other plan you show which extends the building to the east, if you will, forward. Yeah. um
fits more things inside that I wouldn't say it gives you the same square footage inside but it fits all the cars inside all the vehicles inside >> it does uh where you the square footage is very close um
>> what is the objection to using the the the bays on the north side >> we want to get all of the um apparatus, >> including the antique fire truck in the in the red trailer. >> All the Firematic stuff out of the >> the antique fire truck is Firematic
>> and all the >> You're going to use that to go to a fire. >> Oh, the fuel. >> Is the antique fire truck going to go to a fire? >> No, I hope not. >> Okay. So, it doesn't need to be there. >> You're starting it.
>> So, once a year, we're not designing. So, you start do you start your car in your garage? >> Yes, I do. >> And you have a you have an exhaust system? >> No, I do not. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, >> you want five Okay, you want five bays. You don't give a damn what happens to
anything else. That's what you want. You fiddle this around. You put the trailer in there, which wasn't in any other drawing. Now, what's in there? You got the antique car in there. It's just It's just You know, you want what you want. It's fine. You
want what I understand. You want what you want and I understand >> open mind. Sorry. Right. >> I have an open mind and I fiddled around with this for a year and a half now and it it you're you're encroaching on property that's valuable to the town because you want your five bays. I
understand that. Fine. I want to see a cost >> and and I made the point before that it was your job. This would happen. Every every time we have every time we have, >> excuse me. Every time we I know
>> every time we have something to do with the fire department, it turns into this. >> We put the exhaust thing in. All of a sudden, they found out that it couldn't handle electronics. So, we fixed all the electronics. We bought a a field uh for truck, got a grant for it. Fantastic.
Except the cost of $60,000 more. Every time we built, we had a generator. It took them a Yeah. We had to add $40,000 one town meeting and $20,000 another town meeting. >> 53 total. >> We have 53 total. We have a generator. It sits there for a freaking year and a half and no one knows how to connect it.
It cost us $30,000 more to connect it. So, every time we deal with this, they should, you know, you talk about being frustrated is very frustrating. You know, I want I would like to get some real honest answers and I just don't feel we get them. >> You ask for the cost, I can put it.
Okay. So again, we're balancing two things here. We have a charge to do something with the old town hall. And the question is what value does the property have either with the impact or without the impact?
It's a change. The committee has made a point that it gives them the maximum chance to do something with it by not changing the property line. And we got to be respectful for that because otherwise it's a bill sitting on the town right now. You know, just to
keep it in operation without doing anything is what we say 40,000 a year roughly 40 50 a year without doing anything. Right? >> So that's got to move somewhere. And if this is going to impact where that value or chance of doing something with it drops down, that's part of our
consideration. We're balancing both things. Does the four bake operation provide a safe expansion of the firehouse now? I mean, yes or no. Is it optimal? That's a different question. But would it solve a lot of the
>> planning for tomorrow or are we planning for a facility that will last be good for another 15 years? Well, >> I'll tell you one thing. You talk about future 15 years. The town that the population of the town has not changed in 40 years. Well, here's the other thing, too, is
like the only thing that you would put in this that would be a growth for the future would be ambulance. And neither plan covers ambulance. I don't see a five this five-based solution doesn't allow really anything for an ambulance service down the road without more
reconfiguration, if you will. >> No, I didn't know it was part. >> No, no. I'm saying when you talk about coming down the road, what's the expansion? I don't know. Second tanker, >> that'd be great. Where you going to put it?
>> Where you going to buy it? Tanker's got to be a million dollars now, right? >> Oh, easy. >> Yeah. >> Regular fire. >> Right. Yeah. >> So, the Fort Bay configuration. So, dotted line that is property line. It's
right on basically right on the edge >> right there. With that particular configuration, you would not be talking about needing an Eastman to go around a park. seek an alternate room. Is that what you're saying? >> Correct. >> Okay. So, you just have maybe a few feet
of retaining wall might be on here, but nothing detrimental to the >> No, no. The forbay still uses the town hall driveway to access the back of the firehouse, the new the expansion. Correct. It it could or the alternative
to that is the the cutting making that one way and having it exit out through the uh highway highway DPW. >> Yeah. But they got the gate close half the time what we put on that gate in. >> Yeah. And that would that >> would have to become, you know, solving
that. >> There's a lot of navigating around the highway yard. It's not like a straight shot zooming right out there. Um, and you're right, the part to the right, that embank that rise up there in the corner, it's not easy.
No, that would really make it if we wanted to go too wide and not exit through the the um u another avenue and then it would be it would start getting expensive because we would really be encroaching into that embankment whereas a single wide
>> but but I also go back to we talked before about you know yes you get to keep you make the if you will the uh the town hall driveway there off of North Road a common driveway if you bill because the
usage by the fire department in my mind is minimal. Maybe the guys the the they're coming in for a response zooming in back in parking. >> Well, at that point there's a fire going on, the trucks are going out. So, the
disruption compared to a few cars coming in >> and the truck right, it's all one thing at that point. And hopefully that's not happening every hour. So I don't see keeping that as a common driveway as being a big thing >> to me. >> The common driveway alongside the
townhouse. Is that what you're saying? >> Yeah. No, the one off of North Road would be the common driveway up to the back of >> I thought that's what was >> that was the issue. >> I thought that was the issue. I thought that's why looking at other configurations for the >> parking lot was that that was the issue.
>> No, I don't see that being an issue. I think you come in that way, you lose a couple spaces at the back >> because you're turning behind all the parking coming in there. >> But yeah, I don't think because you talked before that the driveway on the north side was going to be difficult
with the embankment there, >> but you wanted to keep parking behind the bays and not make it a drive-thru. So, the accommodation was that yes, we're going to keep parking behind it, but to get to it, either there's the driveway at the town hall or somehow you
put a new driveway to the north, which is not going to be easy. >> A single driveway, oneway driveway, >> might fit it through. >> Pardon me. >> You might fit it on the north. >> A single driveway. Yes. >> Okay. >> Would be relatively smart driveway. >> So, if close to the building then,
>> correct? actually maintaining use of the existing townhouse now driveway for lack of better terms off of North Road. Um I is if that's not a problem then when then we could even minimize it by putting that driveway in on the north
side one way in not not too wide because then we're encroaching real deep into that. >> I get back to the width thing and that's part of your thing again. >> Right. Typt whatever it has to be at that point. >> Right. Right. right? >> You know, obviously close to >> but Noble would if you had go to way.
>> Well, you're not using the trucks on using cars responders coming in, but you know, F-150 or whatever is zooming in. It's not the vehicles. >> Yeah. >> In that way, right? Yeah. >> But by having that, all I'm trying to say is if we did do that, it would minimize the amount of traffic using the
driveway by half. >> Right. >> Because if they came in one way and only exited out that way. >> And again, we can continue to dance with this. And I know you guys love coming here on a weekly basis. The good thing is we're meeting every other week in the summer. But I think at this point and I think Don Eric has shared this
frustration and your frustration as well. These these prices aren't going down. >> No. >> Is it the board's config consideration that look, we think you have an option
for a 4 bay solution here. It's not what you want, but it's something the town can live with at this point. And it's something that we can live with inside the budget and it gives the other committees an option to do something bringing it to the town. Let them vote on what they
want to do as well. And I think we're at the point we're done. We either have to make a vote. Eric, what you think? And say, look, >> one statement. >> Yep. We're going to move the line, which we talked about before, or we're not moving the line. Come back with something. This is the property you
have. Make it work. What are we doing? >> Mr. Ricky's got something to say here. >> Yes, sir. >> Um, at the the other meetings we've had with the committee, townhouse committee, they were insinuating that the shared
driveway and the right to use that as an easement was influencing the cost. That's why we're back at this thing. >> Well, I think there's >> that was a big issue with them. >> Well, and that may be we we weren't there. Don was probably there for that.
But >> I think what you're proposing, look, the main driveway is going to be on the north side of the building. >> Could there potentially be an outflow exit at the end of all the parking, which would lose a couple of spaces? Maybe, >> but it will lose a couple spaces out by
where the, you know, the dumpster is or whatever at the back end of the parking. Is that a dr a horrible thing for the town hall committ? No, because it kept the whole >> Never felt that it was. I don't think we want either, but that's not part of this conversation here right now. We're trying to say, are we giving them a
charge to use the lot as it exists or >> Yeah, I thought we already did that last week. >> I thought so, too, but I want a formal vote because they're looking for something formal to go forward. >> Well, there there's an existing formal vote now for the five bay configuration. >> I think there was at one point we talked about moving the line and you said I
think we got to revisit that >> and come back to this. So, do you want to resend that vote or replace that vote with this or how do you you're looking to approach this Eric? >> That's tough to say because we don't know what's going on with the old technology yet today. >> It's tough to say,
>> but they've been saying that we they need the most option they can assist it, >> right? >> Department say, >> hang on. The highway department wants to weigh in. >> Mark Langoni, uh, and the highway department. Uh, I just want to say for
the record, um, uh, Chief Poland called me last Thursday night to fill me in on on this design and possibility of using the the highway department as a potential exit route of their your parking. Um, I'm here tonight to um,
just express my opposition to that. Um, for the record, uh, it sways a vote one way or another. Nothing personal. I understand everything that's going on as far as needing more space, inflation rising, stuff like that. Um, but we've got, you know, we've got operational
needs, we've got safety concerns, we've got, um, storage needs of our own in our on our property, um, that, you know, I think would cause more of a problem. So, I really just wanted to speak up on on
the highway department's behalf and say if there was any more discussion relating to using the highway department because I didn't know anything about this until Thursday night when she told me. So, um I just want to at least
raise my concern. >> Okay. Just and just so you know, I think it was just somebody a member of the old town hall committee put that out there as a as a suggestion. That was not the board's official stance on that. Just so you know, anything that would involve you, we would absolutely involve you and
um >> I just don't see the all the buildings or whatever that makes work out who's going to lock the gate. All right. So, Don, you're back to >> what's the question? What do you want to do for it? >> What are we doing? Are we rescending? We gave them
direction before that we would go for an ANR. I believe that was true and I think we're sending that and say okay the property line's the property line >> which pretty much predicates a for right. >> Okay. We resend the previous vote and
>> leave the line where it is. >> Leave the line where it is. And we say the property on 19 North is be used for fire department operations and the 625 main street is the for whatever happens >> and whatever happens to
obviously you wanted the five bay I mean is is this going to work with a 4 bay? >> Yeah, it'll work. We'll make it work. Uh obviously um >> we knew you would because you're here for the right reason. >> I don't think it's for the long term the the right solution but it is what it is. We'll make it work.
>> A second. >> All those in favor? >> Again, as Eric just said, this isn't what you wanted. This isn't what we thought would happen at the beginning. We thought be for 50 years. I still think it is. We've
had the fire station since 1930. >> No, it has 1930. >> It says on their little patch 1930. >> One more request. North Road. >> Yes, sir. >> Oh, North Road. Thank you. >> I understand your directive. We're moving forward. We're going to start
with the ZBA and um we can't afford any more de more to discuss. Let's discuss it now because it's it's costing us money. >> So, I want reuse the stone. Don't be buying concrete. Plenty of stones now. >> Right. Yeah, I know. They're all in my
yard. >> I like this >> great crop. >> Yeah. over the floor. Go. >> Yeah, >> go time. >> Where any direction? >> Okay. >> Just make sure the architect understands. Anytime you hire an architect, it's going to cost you three
times more than >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Hey, we're doing appointments. You guys want to be reappointed? >> No. >> Huh? I'm going to stay at my >> Do you want to be reappointed? No.
>> Are you I'm trying to figure out why Marcus stay because he likes it. >> Oh, yeah. Right. All right. That's it for that. Next thing on the agenda, we have uh our annual appointment slips for those people who are appointed for the either
their term is expiring like if they're on a board that has three or five years or they are annual appointments such as like the police department, fire department and some of the people that serve in the town hall. So I have a list
of people and we're going to ask for them by unanimous consent if you will. I'll read the names and we'll see if anybody consents. >> Okay. >> These are one-year appointments for FY27 July 1st, 2026 until June 30th, 2027.
Evil Wiseman, parking clerk. At least the amount. >> Wait a minute. Does she have a parking ticket book? >> I'm a one out of 26 and he's already stopping. We're not going to be out of I may not.
>> Why does he give you a ticket? >> I'm not I'm not All right, let's violation or whatever. Go ahead. >> All right. Thank you. Lee Steman, town accountant. Greg Riv, uh, emergency management director. Eva Wisman, record access officer.
Wendell Hullber, building commissioner. Dennis Chaffy, Jr., plumbing and gas inspector. K. Gerald Nichols, the plumbing and gas inspector, alternate Gary Courtney, electrical inspector. Eric Foy, electrical inspector, alternate.
Michael Spira, building commissioner alternate. Senior Center Building Committee, Don Collins, Cliff Bombard, Mike Fedora, Bobby Grant, Harold Keaney, John Matthews, Mike Duran, Gary Wner,
Animal Control Officer, Shelley Sears, and Paul Moresy is the alternate. The fire building committee, Mark Barbara, Ed Puland, Ed Ricky, Lance Travel, Eric Madison.
Election officers Kathleen Roford, the election warden. Katherine Veranka, ele deputy election warden. John Plaster, election clerk. You sure? >> I'll give it another shot. >> Good man. Elaine Kingsbury, the deputy
election clerk. I ask for >> consent. So moved. >> Second. >> All those in favor? I. >> That was it, John. Sorry. Okay. The fire department, the officers,
Ed Pulman, chief. Patrick Pharaoh, deputy chief. Scott Rumplick, captain. Josh Sterling, first lieutenant, EMS coordinator. Andrew Netherwood, second lieutenant. Full-time firefighters are Joseph Borwick and Brendan Kennedy.
I was questioning if we appoint them. They're hired. I don't know why they get appointed. >> Yeah, they're hired. >> Yeah, >> those three those three are hired. >> Yeah. So I wouldn't actually I don't think we do appointments slips for them but >> we'll do it >> their appointments as call firefighters
what they should be appointed as right >> in my opinion because they respond to fires >> right >> what do you think >> okay all right so they're part of the call firefighters >> which includes Julia Noel Jonathan Kadu if I say anything wrong just
>> thank you what he said Jonathan Fitzgerald Ryan Fitzgerald Corby Marini Jason McCarthy Christopher Patrick, Sharon Marie Pakquette, Evan Roani, Megan Rogers, Tim Evans, Mark Barbara, Tom Adirus, Jared
Lions, Ryan Lafant Lanton, Tyler Graowski, Devin Bean. Probationary call firefighters are Justin Smith, Edmund Berth, and Evan Bernach. Those are the new chaps right now. Cadetses
Hannah Lu, Anthony Powers, Cole Stone, Josh Sheen, and Darren Chapman. And there any >> I resume Darren Shep. Ask for unanimous consent. >> Second. >> Second.
>> Thank you. >> Police Department appointment July 1st through June 27. again. I don't know why we appoint the chief. >> I don't know why I don't know why we appoint him to begin with. >> Oh, I didn't know you were in the room.
>> No, I'm just saying we have a contract, right? I mean, we don't we don't contract. So, >> all right. Anyhow, Chief Dan Bruno, Sergeants Tommy Vaughn, Jeff Bey, Jason
Ro, officers Jeff Wajic, Andrew Puyer, help me out, Chief William Jakes, Matthew Chaplan, John O, Claire, Tyron Sega, reserve officers, James Gallas, Todd Schneider, Chris Driscoll, James
formally, Chad Martowski. >> So moved >> by consent. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? All right. Again, chief, you're going to work with Brian and find some way that we can utilize Mike's talents in the department
until such time a different action is taken. >> And is that action something that your board has to now propose to add to our special town meeting fall? >> If that's the request that comes before
us, Sam. Yeah. Right. I do like the fact that Mike's got some background. You know, other towns have done this type of thing. That's very helpful. >> Okay. >> You know, we don't want to be leading the thing, but if it's a common thing out east, even better. Makes it easier
town meeting. Would have been nicer last year, but you know, now we know. >> Okay. >> At your request, if it if it benefited the community and you wanted signatures prior to that rather than wait till
October. something I'd be willing to work on. >> Well, I'm saying the, you know, the October fall town meeting is pretty much a thing that happens every year. >> Yes. >> If the only other way it could be expedited is if there was another special town meeting, but that requires
a I think 200 sign No, 100 signatures to call it and then an article on it requires 200 signature or vice versa. >> No, it's it's 200 to call it. >> Two, that's a vice versa. and 100 to put on a warrant or go on that motion on
that meeting. >> I think the 200 you do the 200 for the >> the actual call the meeting. >> No, for the warrant too. You're calling a meeting for this subject. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Special town meeting takes 100
signatures or we could just put it out, >> right? I mean, we could call it on our own, but that'd be >> Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. So, that's that part. All right. The rest of the agenda. Mark, are you here for something? >> No, that was I >> Okay. >> I wanted to just kind of fire department
discussion. >> Okay. Sure. Glad to have you. >> Oh, thank you. >> Yes. >> Um I can share any documents or any information that I have and hopefully that can help expedite the process.
>> Feel free to stay in contact with Brian. Am I a am I able to continue working or am I not able to work? I'm >> at this point at this point we're considering your service through June 30th. The appointment you had last year
is still valid through June 30th. If there's a role after June 30th that the chief can work out with Brian that is protecting the town in a different role, we're happy to make that work out. >> Okay. maybe the permanent detail guy or
something like that. Whichever >> I'll have discussion with >> right >> TA and with Kane about that. >> Right. The only path forward as an officer is through a town meeting legislature action. You agree? >> Cor right correct. So if you get 200 signatures and you can bring it to the
meeting until you wanted to do something more quickly that that would be you know that I'm generally here four to seven days a week. Oh, I know. >> I understand what's left.
>> What? >> Yeah. Well, that's the only thing I'm trying to I have issues with our own building department. One of my collateral duties was take care of the building >> and I'm helping with the contractors. I'm supplying contractors renovation
process now with your ACL. >> Oh, okay. Good. issues. Not to mention in the middle of um working on the infrastructure of our radio system. That's another um job that I have with our communication system. And we do have it needs attention.
>> Okay. >> A lot to try to get done. >> There you go. >> Unless we jump on this quickly. This is >> Thank you, Mike. and Jim, thank you for coming in as well.
>> Thank you. >> All right, so uh board reports. I have nothing. >> Lauren, >> Brian, I lost. >> Quick recap from the World Cup game. Who won?
Uhhuh. Okay. >> The first uh first two minutes >> and then just 120 minutes of no action at all. >> Back and forth back and forth. Yep. >> Where's the next one you're going to
>> 29 >> is that in Philly or where or Metife or >> No, that's that's again >> stadium >> to left here and there. Um, health insurance. We touched on
health insurance earlier. While the board wants a look at possible options for health insurance, one being to explore you what GIC has to offer and then also maybe process for considering changes
for this belly uh trust. Right. Yeah, >> but if you go in the GIC and I don't have enough experience with that remember we talked about as the that was toughling we talked about that as retirement >> day that was an option through retirement fund >> the one thing we talked about with the
Scandic Valley was that when we briefly talked about it months ago was that we felt they weren't doing enough to mitigate the cost to the member communities that they took whatever the insurance company came forward and said okay it's 12% %. Great. Thank you very
much. And no look at dedu deductibles, no look at co-pays, no nothing. And you shared some of the prices. I have a business. It's a bit of a Cadillac. It's great if you're in it, but the reality is that, you know, I'm looking at
adjusting my co-pays, my deductible just to keep the increase down. And I don't think they're doing that. And we did talk about sharing that with Dick because he is the representative to the the committee or whatever they call it the the board. >> Yeah. >> And I did have a conversation with one
of the Warhammer select board members. They asked what we were doing about it. I said same thing. Your treasurer is your representative. But it would need to be honestly the school needs to step up and their
representative because they hold the bulk of the membership. quite easily between the teachers and the retirees. That's got to be well over half. >> Yeah. >> You know, even with the other towns maybe Logos are the Lo's
in it. >> Yeah. >> East Long Meadow. >> Sure. Long >> not East Long Meadow, Hampton, Wilmer, Long Meadow, and East Long Meadow. >> So, and the region. >> So, their schools too maybe too, but either way, the schools honestly hold the bulk of the boat.
>> Yeah. So if we went to the GIC, which you talked about, what influence would we have there, you know, I don't want it to be another our dispatch versus Westcon like we go to something where it's like here's the bill and that's it.
>> Or do they >> I don't know. I don't know if going to the GIC is the answer, but I do think that we have to be the leaders on this just like we were in the Hampton County Retirement Board. We probably should send a letter to the other people involved saying, "Look, we're looking at the we're looking at options to keep the
insurance rate down. We'd like to talk about all these things." >> Well, I said the other stakeholders, we'd like you to direct your representative >> to bring this to the next meeting and say, "What are we doing next year's bill?" >> Because when you and I started signing
that thing, >> Yeah. >> we were signing it at 32,000. Okay. >> And now we're signing it at >> 7478,000. >> Are that is us. We did raise that's fine. We owed that to the people. >> But
I mean a family plan say 25. Mine cost me 13 instead of 2500. >> So yeah. >> All right. So I agree with you. Um if we could >> I think we should organize the other ones to say we got to talk about this. >> This is And you know what? We have the
treasurer coming in on the 13th then with a lease and whatever and >> put it on the agenda for then that we should discuss it with our rep and supposed to be give them the board charge to lead it with the other people if you need our endorsement to go back at your next is it quarterly or or
monthly they meet >> it can be quarterly >> okay >> depends on the time of year >> like us >> right now they're not meeting until September but the last several months it's I think been monthly pretty much Yeah, I imagine as it winds down. Okay, that's fine.
>> So, put that on the agenda for the 13th that we're going to speak with the I know was going to be a short meeting on the 13th, but still that's if he's here, that's the time to talk to them. Yeah, we need a quorum of the advisory that night as well, obviously because we'll make a motion for
transfers. They have to agree with it and then >> the lease can do what she has to do. >> Um, couple other things. the quote unquote elevate the lift. The old townhouse has been formally decommissioned. Probably 20 20 years too late, but it's
been formally dem we should u hopefully we'll come back with changes to the uh highway union collective bargaining agreement to establish a former position. We've agreed on language um and the concept so we just need to put that in writing. All
right. That action has foresstalled any personnel changes at this point. >> Um, nobody's leaving. >> Correct. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um, and we got word that um
we got some of the remaining casino mitigation funds that the state hasn't stolen. Um, >> that the state hasn't reallocated to. >> Are you ready? The budget. Watch that in the minutes. Uh Lauren, >> so we have we awarded up a grant in the
huge amount of 19,000 per dollar and the application that we had put in was to uh explore the townhouse. >> So the old townhouse appointment whatever building we want to call townhouse. >> Oh, that's what I was asking for. So
it's >> the old townhouse. It was it was reuse for the it was to explore options. >> I'm sure if you call Mary, she would say it's good for both. >> Somebody picks up the phone at the office now.
>> Oh, well it permits. more. >> Oh, good. I like that place over the old stiggers, I think. >> Dating yourself there. >> Jeez. >> It's next to Forbes.
>> I used to My first job was at Forbes at Johnson bookstore. Uh I have two. There's just two of these. >> Yes. That's all it's in that folder. >> What's that? That's our appointment.
I have two uh requests for permits to uh go to the for the rock at the summer event that's being held. One of them is for batch ice cream, a 447 Long Meadow Street, Long Meadow. Batch ice cream
hearts served in cups and cones. Get like one of each, I guess. And then uh this the same one. batch ice cream again. There's two batch ice creams. >> So, you want us to do them as a batch right now?
>> Different dates. >> June 22nd and June 22nd. >> What? That's not right. I thought 11 July 11th and July 11th. There's two the same. >> We got two. We got suddenly got two $25
checks. So that's good. I have a motion of approval. >> No. >> Motion to approve. >> Are you checking them out first? >> What? >> You can't do it without the permit. I got the permit show approved. >> Second.
>> All in favor? I am Am I signing both of these? >> I don't know. I'd have to ask. I can text there. >> Is one like for soft serve and one for both the same thing. I'll sign both.
I'll sign. >> Maybe they got food trucks or something. One breach truck. >> And we got a septic. Okay, here's this. Oh, this one here. You got to sign 50 places. I hate being
Oh, humanity. Where's this sign? This is >> whatever. He's not taking the name down. What's that for? >> Oh, I guess because he's a building inspector, you have to like send something to the state. >> Oh,
your certification at >> Okay, here city. >> All right. >> Do we do a motion to adjourn? several times already tonight, I believe. >> I heard the audience second it, but I
never heard you second it. He made it a couple. >> Oh, you did. I'll second. Okay. All in favor? >> I >> You say it. >> What was that movie? Wait.