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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=3KkX5CiWkL0

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And so, uh I'll start over. Opening the meeting for the Conservation Commission, June 17th, 2026. Um Do you want to do the minutes first? There's two of them.

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Yeah, we'll do them first and get it out of the way. I'll make a motion to accept the minutes from April and May. I'll second it. All in favor? Aye. Yeah. All right, first, uh

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the mesh Um What do we need to do? >> He um He might >> All right. >> filed a request for each of the minutes. >> Okay. Do we have Do we have that?

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I don't have it. >> I sent you usually reads it. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. So, um Andrew Mr. Wish um did final determination on um the property that he has off of Summers

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Road in replacing a house in town. So, for determination under private description, the area around the proposed house will be cleared and graded. This is right from his request. Um the planned clearing will be between

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the edge of the easement 25 ft away from the NHESP and the wetland area. There will not be any clearing or grading on the driveway within 25 ft of the protected area. If clearing and leveling is necessary to

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build a single-story 2,400 um square foot house and a 1,200 square foot garage. So, um

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in the discussions and the mapping that um he gave us, um it it appears and you'll you guys will have to vote on this, but it appears it will be a negative determination. The area described is not an area

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subject to jurisdiction under the act or the buffer zone. And um a negative is good. That's a good determination. And um then I just put that I knew that Mr. Wish was going to be here, so

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checked off that it would be um delivered to him by hand. So, there's two There's two copies of that second to last page. You have to sign next to your names

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on both copies so we keep one for the office and then Mr. Michigan walk home with one. >> Yep. How do How How do you know where the boundary is? >> Uh GPS coordinates and then surveyors are coming out too but we're well inside those.

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And the other thing is the grading probably won't come anywhere near any of that. Um So I just have to push back behind where the original house was because they had a basement and I'm still on one grade so I can't You know, I can't compact that with issues with the concrete. Um

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>> So we We don't need to go out there and show you where the boundary is or or we're well aware of >> Yeah, surveyors are coming again this week so once I know that but we're not getting anywhere near it. The The only other question I have is I've heard that I can use wood chips for a silt fence just to make sure we're

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allowed to do that or not. >> You use what? >> Wood chips for a silt fence cuz I know they're doing that in other >> Oh, I've never heard that one. >> We've never I haven't seen it first. I don't know. >> Um that's a new >> Is that something I could follow up on with you guys or >> Where did you hear that? >> I I know there's I have a friend in a

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different county in this that was allowed to do that by their conservation agent. I'm not It doesn't really It's not going to end the world for me either way. I just have them there so I figured why not, right? >> We usually recommend the silt fence or or the straw wattles. >> Yeah. That's fine. Not going to It's not

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going to affect the property either way. I just have the chips there so I was just hoping I could I don't think so. And I don't I don't expect uh with the grading to change much of what's out there. It's all sand anyways. >> Okay. So we need to vote first, Bonnie?

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>> Yes. >> So want to make a motion to accept. Is that the right word? So let me start with problem? Issue? >> Issue of negative. >> No. >> No.

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>> Yeah, a negative determination. >> Determination. >> And the number. >> On Where's the number on here? First time I've done this. Shouldn't be on I'll say again. >> Okay, it's um

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It's negative determination. Number one. >> Yeah. Oh, number one. Okay, I thought you meant this. Isn't there a number for this? >> Is there a number on anything? No, no, not on determination. >> Okay. >> All right. So, negative determination on which is

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number one on this form. Okay. Second. Second. All in favor. >> Aye. >> Vote. Can you do a second? >> Yep, there's another one right here. There's another one. >> I'll go ahead and give a vote.

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>> Right. >> And so done. I'll vote for this. >> Yeah, I'll vote for this. >> Vote for this. >> Thank you, sir. >> You're all set. >> Appreciate it. Thank you. >> Okay. Next is the South Ridge.

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Uh >> Did you want to do this? >> Oh, is she here? Oh, yeah. She's okay. >> is. Anyway, um we also have a sign-up sheet here, too, up front. >> Yeah, yeah. We'll do hers first. >> You're from what? >> And you Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Um which is the map that you got in your

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folder. Yeah, that's hers. So, we don't have anything a determination or anything, right, from her? >> Yeah, so um a little bit of background >> Okay, good. >> [laughter]

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>> I'm pulled up the JSC. >> Did you send them your property plan? That's what it looked like. >> Uh I gave them >> Okay, yeah. Yeah. >> [clears throat] >> So, on Summit Road, I believe you are planning to build

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And um upon reviewing like the plans for the home, we can see that Let me find it. It's not numbered, so >> It's next to 260, if that helps. >> Okay.

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>> You put in 260 and then you can put on it. That's how I find it. >> Okay, got it. There we go. So yeah, as you can see the home is being planned to be built here and it comes close to this you know

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what land boundary. So [clears throat] we asked Andy come in to present their findings from like your surveying just to show the commission plans to make sure that none of the wetlands are disturbed. I believe you also have a

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turtle protection plan as well. >> Yeah, so so I'll brief you on that. So yeah, the project is a natural heritage habitat. I filed with them, you know, I did the turtle assessment and the review. I just got the the results back today. I didn't even get to submit it to you guys, but they're actually not

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requiring a turtle protection plan. So it's a no take no turtle protection plan needed. I did the wetlands out here probably I don't remember last fall or something like that. Like last summer. Yeah, and then Mike just surveyed everything, plotted it up and we kept

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everything well outside the riverfront area and the buffer zone. It's a nice big flat sandy pine forest up by the road and that's where they're working. There's an existing road like a woods road that goes in and there's like a shed back in the woods. But that's all

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the shed that's on the plan is existing. That's already there and that's outside the riverfront area too, but they're not going past that. >> Where is it approximately on that? Can you turn the aerial? I don't know if this is a mass map or not. Oh, I didn't see it. I'm talking about the shed.

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>> Yeah, I'll show you outside of flagging. >> Oh, I see it. Like a little >> Oh, yeah. >> There's a >> They have >> this one. >> Yeah, there's a little >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Got it. >> You see the house is well way back here. >> Yeah, the house is still going to be set

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forward and they're just including the the shed in the yard cuz it's >> Let me see. Two sheds. >> Yeah, what's this old shed? There's one way back here. >> Yeah, that's the existing shed. Yeah, that's that's already there. >> This is This would be a new one. >> No, that's the one >> The one that exists there. >> That's the original That's the existing shed on the right.

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That's Yeah, that's existing, too. >> Okay. >> There's a There's a pond back there and there's like a little >> Yeah, that I'll buy that, too. >> Okay. >> That's not part of the project. >> Yeah. Well, wait. Wait. Wait. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, I think

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>> You might want to like discuss and see if you want us to like like what route you want to take, whether it's RDA or you don't think that's necessary or something. >> I mean, if it's not going anywhere near the wetland, I don't see a problem. I mean, the closest is it's 200 ft, right? And

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that's >> Yeah, and that's and they're even outside of that. >> It's very well defined. It's not likely >> You can see where the stream is and then >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Also, I talked to Board of Health today. She left a packet here.

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>> it. I have it. Wonderful. >> Told me to make sure that I grab that. >> So, yeah. I guess we're all right on this. What >> Yeah. Stream is that? What stream is it? >> I don't I don't think it has a name. >> It's just a It's not East Brook?

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>> I don't I have to go back and look at it. No, I don't think it is. >> But, it's brains. It's perennial? >> It's on the other side, right? It's in the laughing area. >> Yeah. >> It's a perennial stream? >> Yeah. Okay. >> You said it was perennial stream? >> Perennial. Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah, there was a dam on that pond.

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That's why it's a pond. The stream is That's probably an old farm or something. >> Oh, yeah. This way back. >> Like a legitimate dam that was built probably. >> Wentworth property. I don't know if that If that means anything to anybody, but that's what they actually call it on one of the maps that I looked at. It says Wentworth Pond. >> Oh. >> Really? Yeah. >> Okay.

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>> But that was the name of the man who owned it. >> Do you want to vote on that? What do we need to vote on? >> To not pursue >> Okay. I'll make a motion to not pursue the remediation. >> I'll second it. >> Yeah.

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>> All in favor? >> Aye. >> Aye. >> Good. >> When do you expect the septic line to be anything? >> Uh Not by us. >> Oh, not by them. >> Yeah. So, I don't think so. But she's She's getting it new and >> Yeah. They're dropping it off here

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today. Okay. Thank you. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, good. >> Yeah, we're we're actually on Thank you so much. >> [laughter] >> I'll I'll send you the email tomorrow with the natural heritage stuff on it and like explain everything. >> Wonderful. >> I mean, you should be

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ready to go. >> All right. >> Yeah. Great. >> Thank you. >> Awesome. That was >> Thank you so much, Steve. All right. Thank you. Thanks for your time. >> Yep. You all have a good night. >> Yep. >> That's what we're here for. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Next >> Yeah.

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>> We're going to move into the uh to the to the to the violation at Southbridge Estates. >> Yep. >> Basically, just a little background so everyone is clear. Um about a year ago, the commission um investigated the violations behind um

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a property in Southbridge Estates. Um there was a large clearing um I'll pull it up in the GIS in a second here. And um Now, we We went back to check on that as and we've talked to both the property owner

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and the potential violators, and we have a revegetation plan that we want to put in place. And yeah, so we have both parties here tonight. And so we want to

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reach a conclusion on how the revegetation plan is going to be put in place and the signage, types of signage, everything like everything like that. And just you know, so it's clear the piece of property that it's happened on, it has a what's called an order of

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conditions, which basically the main statement of the order conditions that involves us is that no piece of this property can be disturbed at any time. It has to remain in its natural state forever. Um so given that there was an alteration, that's why it's become a big

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deal. But yeah, ultimately we want to talk about the revegetation plan and the signage and charging for the financial burden of that as well. And we have also a

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an order we'll have you take a look at. An enforcement order that Bonnie typed up today. Okay. So up to you, do you want to talk to both parties and Well, yes. So we did have Steve come out and

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delineate the wet the wetlands out there, correct? And it's all flagged. And the field is so signs need to be put up designating that no disturb somehow. I don't know the wording that we need.

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>> want those on the wetland or on like a 25-ft? >> That's a good question. >> Well, we have to be told by the state. >> Yeah. Okay. And he was going to be writing up a reclamation >> Yeah, I just wanted the proposal over to

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Russ to do it, so I can >> So, this being your property financial burden falls on you, obviously. I It's yours. So >> I don't know where to go with it now.

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>> But signs need to be put up. >> Yeah. Well, we're saying that even if someone else did the violation, because it's your property, the financial burden falls on you for the revegetation plan and the signage. >> Yeah, and like I stated at the other meeting, I'm willing more than to

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you know, work with the signage and follow You know, I've heard I've heard three different bi- yeah, if you want something fairly inexpensive, like PVC tubes, I'm willing to try to help or, you know, get those and put those up. As

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far as my good faith of, you know, I got one cut down a number of a few hundred bucks. Uh you know, I I don't feel responsible for the other uh restoration plan costs.

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>> Under I understand that, but that's up to you to pursue that. It's your property. >> So >> I understand, but >> Do you have a copy of this enforcement order? >> Uh no. >> Okay. So, they have to vote on issuing this, right?

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>> Okay. So, we we typed up an enforcement order. >> Okay. >> Um that's going to be issued to you, cuz it's your property. Uh and basically, the commission's going to vote and then sign on this. It's essentially saying that We have an enforcement order that is going to be issued to you as the

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property owner. Um and despite I mean I I know you just said that the revegetation plan doesn't belong to you, but with this enforcement order it's going to it's going to have to because it's your property. So, you're going to be fully financially responsible for the signage that's going

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to be implemented and the revegetation plan. If someone else did this violation that and you know, it's your property and you weren't okay with that, you're going to have to separately go after the party. Okay? Cuz we are only dealing with the

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the property owner. >> Have you ever dealt with a situation like this previous? >> I have not. >> I don't think so. >> They haven't. >> Bonnie >> We're all in new new territory here. And and your firms, you know, I've always considered them great neighbors, you

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know, you know, Brent Brent for it. I did speak with him um when there was some issues about shooting and other stuff that was going on. At that point I think he he said that he would be responsible. You know, I said, you know, I don't want

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to get a lawyer involved. But let's just use a scenario. Someone drives over Eric's um house with a big truck, makes a bunch of damage, knocks down a bunch of trees, and tips over in the wetlands. You know, is he responsible for that?

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>> He's responsible for >> No, well, if the guy doesn't have insurance, he's going to have to get a lawyer and blah blah blah. You know, so we're all on new ground here. So, why don't we take our time, talk to the people, you know, and which

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I'm open for like an open discussion. >> Well, but I think that's that's that's where I stand. >> We have done that already. Um, that's why we're here. This has been over over a year that we've been Well, pursuing this. >> Now that the firms are here, I don't want to I said I heard the conservation

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said this, this and that. >> Um >> So, the restoration plan um Steve was only sent to me. >> I sent you the proposal for it but I haven't gotten it yet. Yeah. And then I would I would just be making the plan and then someone else have to implement >> No, no, I understand. You can plan things or whatever.

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>> I I think obviously the per- permit should see the restoration plan and then >> Well, that's up to you. You're the property owner. It's delivered to you. That's up to you to go >> Okay. >> to them with it.

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>> You have a >> a plan a plan here >> not. >> It's with >> It was sent It was sent to the conservation commission and one was sent to me. >> No, I just sent a proposal. >> Just gave you a proposal. >> There's nothing final yet, so I haven't even started it yet, so.

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>> Well, how do we proceed with that so the perms can see what the proposal is? Should I give them a copy? >> Yeah, give them a copy of the proposal and then you can work out with them whether you pay it, they pay it, you can split it, or something like that. >> Personally, I don't think I should be financially responsible for >> a

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lot of money. >> Like as good faith, my money. >> You know, we don't know what it's going to cost. I don't know what it's going to cost. I mean, the commission basically is trying to reestablish what was there before. That's it. We're not looking to

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go above and beyond, we're not looking to implement new things. Whatever was previous to, that's that's our concern. You as a property owner are issued it. >> You guys look over the proposal also. >> Uh-huh. >> So, let me send it to them right away. >> Yeah, I'm good. >> But I have a question.

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>> So, we're talking about putting it back to not the original. So, when we moved in, it was exactly like it is now. There's a right-of-way that the the pond was supposed to go by, so >> Yeah. >> Other than there was a big

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uh 6-ft I mean, 5 to 6-ft gully that had formed between the two yards. And I think that's the crux of this issue. >> We're talking about the vegetation part of it. >> No, I I totally understand that. The gully formed on its own over years of

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just rain or whatever. >> Yeah. >> The pond had been dredged and a big pile of the dredgings was there and we moved the dredgings into this big >> Oh. >> big gully. >> Okay.

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>> Yeah. The vegetation that was there was and I don't know how it looks from above, but on the ground it wasn't like old growth forest like you see like we have all along the back of the property. >> Yeah, well, we've been there. >> second growth forest, maybe third, maybe. Uh what was there was

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scrub brush wild grape vines and whatnot. So, if you're trying to replicate junk trees and scrub brush I get it, but there was no like beautiful oak trees or anything like that. >> Well, what

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Then weren't you out there and you said you saw evidence of disruption of >> Yeah, and you could tell that there was material over the surface like what was moved around and like rocks were piled up at the edge and and trees were cut down and >> You could look at the older aerials and

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see kind of what happened out there. >> Um but for vegetation, like this it doesn't matter specifically what kind of vegetation was there before. They're he's trying to reestablish a proper vegetation planning in accordance with what's around it so that like the invasives don't take over the area

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because as you can see like that's a significant area here. >> That cleared area is going to be all poison ivy and the foundation creeper and all kinds of stuff like that eventually. >> house >> Yeah, this is this is what was cleared. >> Oh, yeah.

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>> And this is where the wetlands are. There's a well. Yeah, here. >> So, >> So, what was the blue What did the blue indicate? >> So, uh >> That's the uh That's the storm drain thing that the

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town >> that's what was dug out when you said the pond was dug out. That's the That's the detention basin. >> Exactly. >> Or the something. >> Yeah. The town's Yeah. Um >> So, then the town will let trees grow to the point where they can't get to that drainage to do their

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whatever 20-year drain? >> I mean, we that storm drain easement is not on us to enforce. I >> And the clearing is He He said the storm easement isn't on us to enforce, and the clearing is primarily behind that toward into the side of it. >> Right. >> So, that's why we're not concerned about

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that. But >> But if the soil has been disrupted and the natural state has been disrupted, we have to repair that. So, if that includes putting in trees to lay down a soil that What's the root system in order to maintain that. That's what

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we're trying to do. >> And I'm going to read the enforcement order just so >> Okay. Yep. >> have that information in. Also, I wanted to address your earlier point, um no matter like if this is the commission's first time dealing with this, there's a legal precedent for how this is handled, and that's what we're

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following. So, that's why the financial burden falls on you. Um but the In the words of the enforcement order, um the extent type of activity, disturbing and clear-cutting a section of the protected resource area behind lot 19 and a smaller area behind lot 17 on

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Southwood Road. This area protected under the the original order of conditions, condition number 23 states, "At no time, present or future, is there any disturbance within the wetland boundary as shown on the submitted site plans. See attached. If erosion into the bordering vegetated wetland occurs, all

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work shall be shall stop, and the conservation commission immediately notified by the environmental scientist once remediation and additional mitigation measures have been put in place and approved by the commission, a notice to proceed will be issued. Um and

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the border of the resource area and limit of work are on the site shall clearly be marked in the field by stakes or flags at 25-ft intervals, surveyed and recorded on a plan. The Conservation Commission is including specific number monuments for marking boundaries of

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wetland and natural heritage no disturb zones. The Commission hired um Sea Rabbit Wetland and Environmental Consulting to flag the resource area is to be completed. They are expected to be installed and the Commission to be notified for inspection by September

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15th, 2026. Um so those are the two uh important regulations and the enforcement order. >> What's the last date, September? >> Um yeah, September 15th, 2026. >> For the no disturb markers? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I also wanted to talk to you and get

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you guys' opinion on timeline for the revegetation plan as well. >> Yeah, I mean I wouldn't recommend planting anything now. I mean probably fall is the best time to plant anything. That would Whatever I would recommend. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So fall or spring? >> Yeah, our next spring, yeah. >> If we wanted to have like a kind of like

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a hard deadline for that, what would you recommend? >> I mean given some of the back and forth and stuff, I I probably say next spring. >> Okay. >> You know, and ideally it'd happen in the fall, but you know, you're going to pick a window in the spring and you always have chance of, you know,

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bad freeze and stuff popping out of the ground in the in the winter. >> Okay. >> So, yeah. >> Yeah, I'm fine with that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I think now um both uh this enforcement order um you can take a look at it too and then also

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sign and um then we'll you'll issue that to Bros and >> Yeah. >> This is your time to ask questions about it. Oh. Those are the two Which one to get signed. >> Oh. >> Those they can they have

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>> Those are the two to be signed. >> Oh. >> Okay, you sign those two. Maybe that was a >> This is what you just read. >> Put inside it. >> Oh, that has all the things to it. Okay. >> So yeah, you got to sign these two. >> Oh. And this is just your copy.

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>> Yeah, I think these have more information. >> Okay. All right. Well, don't sign it yet. We're going to share this. I don't know if it's on the agenda, but since Russ is here we had a question on his other property up by the old Mill Street area property.

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I don't know if we can talk about that for 5 minutes. >> Yeah, all right. Let's finish this first. >> Yeah, we'll finish this and then >> Okay. >> Oh. >> Yeah, it's a little kind of cruise up. Hey, I make a motion to approve the enforcement order

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for Well, for South Ridge Estates. Second. All right, baby. All right. Don't sign that one. You know, that's Joe's copy.

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>> Did you have a question, Russ? >> What? I haven't seen the enforcement order. I think I think I understand I think I got it. >> So, you understand >> like um all of our these programs

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have today to come to this meeting and see if you they have the power to be able so we can all when we're asking questions, we'll all we'll all be more knowledgeable. >> You mean like the river vegetation plan? >> Yeah. Yeah,

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but it doesn't really matter. >> Well, the river vegetation I understand the legality. >> The way it says >> You just need >> It says the >> to make >> application >> to distribute them or >> done by October. >> I I could run around and make copies of the plan.

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Yeah, absolutely. >> Wait. >> I haven't walked this property once in the last 25 years. And I don't mind putting a little time involved and a little money. Joe good pays, but >> Okay. >> And he's all happy with it. So, I'm >> What medicine making a mental

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every day? >> So, I'm assuming the next meeting we're going to discuss other things. >> I'm not sure. I mean >> Well, but by that time programs will have seen the restoration plan. >> I might amend the amendment.

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>> I vote to amend. >> change it. Okay. >> But you know >> I want to order an official but I really haven't >> Yeah. >> Because >> No, no, no. >> enforcement order >> It's my problem with the year. >> You know, like reclamation >> date >> I think the programs

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>> They're changing >> They they they >> It's October. >> the class of >> I'm just saying it has to >> input >> No, that's September. >> There's a chance >> Oh, you put October. >> two trees >> But >> I don't know. I Like I said, I didn't look over >> So, I don't have the plan yet. I didn't

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start that, but I would probably work with you and them to like >> along with the >> probably >> the food land. >> Mhm. >> But I I think the financial burden falls on the property. And whatever that is

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Yeah, I know. I'm just saying it's just because you said No, I I get it. It's just because you just That's why I made the scenario. Somebody who drives on one unit property truck overturns and you have weapons. The guy has no insurance. What are you

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going to call your lawyer? True, but But it still would fall on us and then >> [laughter] >> Well, all we're saying is that don't it doesn't Wait, just because you said I was only repeating it because you said if it's a little like, you know, a couple hundred, it would be more than

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that. And that's what's going to happen. Right. That's I agree with you. members, myself, Steve, the parents. Okay. We need to all be on the same page. Yeah. So

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And we we said um the restoration and finish I told them and Steve suggested So we can amend it. We I can just Yeah. Amend Yeah. We'll amend that. Okay. We agree.

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I put the date in the spring on May 31st. May 31st. Yeah, sounds good. Okay. Well, but I have to give him a plastic coffee cup. No. We'll vote on the change. Okay. So I

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want to make a um motion to amend the enforcement order to read for the reclamation to be finished by May 31st of 2027. Second it. All in favor? Uh >> I. >> Okay.

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Steve, what's what's in the proposal? >> It's just a cost estimate that >> Okay, so there's no like outline of this this might work. That it's just basically >> No types of veggies >> Just like our early estimate of how long it'll take me to put the restoration plan together. >> Okay. So you won't

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>> If we're requiring it, shouldn't he submit it to us and we review it and submit it to Russ? >> The restoration plan? >> I think the commission would want him to do it also. >> Yeah. Oh yeah, that's what >> I mean, I might get some input from them, but the final plan I'll I'll

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>> Yeah, all right. Yeah, all right. Yeah, all right. Okay. Yeah, all right. Okay. Go ahead. >> All right, so you're good with that? Do you want to do the Mill Street? >> Yeah, yeah. >> I'm just making a copy for the parents. >> Oh, awesome. Yeah.

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So if you want to wait till this 12th, you want to take notes on >> I'll take notes on >> Okay, all right. Okay. Oh, I talked about it. >> Yeah, oh, sorry. >> Yeah, so Russ has obviously got that other property off Mill Street. It's only accessible through East Long

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Meadow. >> Mhm. >> Um he's got There's two entrances to that site, right? There's two Well, there's really three. There's three dead-end streets that go into it. >> Uh >> on the map. >> Yeah, what's the address? >> Um >> Google that. Wrenmore. >> Wrenmore >> East Long Meadow. >> Yeah, yeah.

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>> Easily or something. >> Yeah. >> It's easier to know one of the That's one of the streets from 83, yeah. >> And it's fun. >> Just like that, but it's >> No, East Long Meadow. >> It's all one word, I think, right? >> Yeah, it's one word. >> On the app.

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I don't know what you're doing cuz it's a W on there. >> Oh wait, this is do you want There we go. >> Well, we'll be here at your at your town meeting. >> Oh, you want it Google? >> Yeah, just yeah, just go with like or just like Ainsley Drive, I think is the other one.

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It's spelled weird, I'm thinking There we go. Hit it. Or Annelise, that's it. That one. There you go. >> Okay. >> It's back. >> Yeah, yeah, right here. So, this is Ainsley that ends. And if

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you zoom up this way a little bit, there's another street. Oh, right there. Um, I don't know what the name of this street is. >> I think that's the Anwar extension. >> Yeah, and that one dead ends here. This is all Russ's property. Scantic River like bisects it, so you

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can't get to this side of the property from Hamden. You can only get to it from this side of Hamden. I delineated it. Like Smith's surveying it. He I think next week he said he might have a plan of all of the wetlands out there. So, I flagged everything throughout here, out here. I got pretty much everything on this side of the Scantic.

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>> Okay. So, we got a sense of the everything. >> Right now, there's the main entrance is here. Right? And there used to be a greenhouse or something here in the '50s or '60s. >> It was the old main farm road. >> Those old structures in the woods are all gone now. >> They're on concrete

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>> But there's a road, it dead ends at a fence. You can kind of get in. There's like a two-track like truck road that then goes behind behind all these houses. You can see it right here. >> Yeah. >> And it comes out, it drives up, and then it comes back out here and and comes back out on the street, too. Like

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there's another culvert over here. The town of East Hampton Meadow blocked this off, so you can't get in. Right. I think there's some local politics that are just like, "We we want you coming into the site from here. We'd rather you go in from here." But here, you're a lot closer to the Scantic River. There's wetlands off the Scantic River.

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Um I mean, the road's all in upland, but and there's another stream that comes in somewhere in here. It's a subdivision. Yeah, so it's a stream in. It's like piped under the whole subdivision. That would be here and comes feeds into the Scantic. But there's a, you know, a little road here that comes in. So this

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is how he's been getting in. He'd love to get in through here cuz I don't have any wetlands anywhere near this. I mean, the closest wetlands >> are back in here. >> You know, there's nothing There's stuff way up here. So ultimately, he'd like to come in here. The town of East Longmeadow was telling him no. Um

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I did a little analysis for him to bring to planning board. And East Longmeadow was like, "Well, if you go through here, you're going to have to probably get an order of conditions from you guys to kind of upgrade the road and fix the the culverts." >> Where Where is the exact border then? >> Our order? >> Yeah. >> Like right Like behind this backyard.

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>> Right along that road? >> Yeah, that's East Longmeadow. >> The neighbors >> You used to >> No, you don't. >> Yeah, pretty far my my cousin. I used to farm. All that was cleared. >> Right. >> to jump at photographs like you have for South Range. You can see the area was all cleared. >> Yeah, it used to be all the orchards.

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>> No, I know. >> Yeah, I know. >> Basically, >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. >> Dry access is about twice because of town politics. And just to bring up a couple technicalities, I'm not the record owner. My daughter, >> Right. >> Sarah, is the owner. >> I said that before. >> He has hired an attorney for

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Northampton, called Attorney Pill. We've been um back and forth with the town for over 6 months with land court meetings and whatnot. They still are trying to force their hand. So to have me use the Ainslie Road, which

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to 60-year-old drainage is in disrepair. Yeah. And instead of the dry access, which makes more common sense. So what I thought when speaking with Steve, we could have some of the mission like I can't come out there and see it

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in in in the field. Because the town of East Longmeadow is snooty as they are um didn't even realize there was a farm gate there for 60 years. And then one of the town managers said, "Oh, there's a gate there? Oh, he has access there?"

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They thought for some reason that I didn't have access. I have legal that access. My daughter do. >> The one off of Brimark >> off off >> Ainsley property >> They don't want Brimark on my land because actually it's Steve who used to used to be in Hamden lives within sight

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of the entrance. And he's using his foot to >> Whatever. That's So that's truth of the story. >> Yeah. So >> I'd like to try to have the commission look at it and see what their opinion is where the entrance should be.

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>> Well, I can't determine that, but we could look at the Ainsley entrance and see how difficult it is. >> Well, I know >> Well, my thought on it is like if we could I can either I mean it's kind of silly to like want a friendly denial, but we could file something. [clears throat] >> If just to say no. >> I mean this

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go in there and and the road itself is within 25 ft or >> Yeah, the I mean the >> I've been there for 100 >> I know. I know. But the road crosses a stream to get it There's another stream that has a whole thing in here. >> But I mean right down in the gate itself

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>> So I mean that's what we're all here for is to protect the wetlands. >> Yeah. Right. Well, I understand where you're coming from. Yeah. >> All right. It makes more sense. >> But we can't tell them what to say. >> Yeah. And that's why I've been working closely with Steve, you know, to kind of

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take baby steps because, you know, every time I go out there and cut some pricklers so my grandkids can drive through the farm road on the on their quads or something, you know, the phones start ringing and East on metal conservation and the conservation you know

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a couple of neighbors you could make a gold mine out of the property or offer them 50% they wouldn't want it. I know I know. Just that you you you've seen it over the years. >> We were there when? >> Yeah, they called me and >> That was the last last summer last

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summer yeah. >> Still violation. In fact the area that was brushed out a few months earlier there was a young beaver that took down a whole bunch of trees. That's why we wanted to chip up the boot debris so it wasn't a fire hazard. >> Yeah, I remember walking some of that

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farm road but I don't know in relation to the road how far back that that s- river was. >> Well, I'll have that right. So I'll have the survey so >> It was too thick to be anyway. >> need to determine that. >> Yeah, you know how tough it is to get surveyors?

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Or and pretty good and I am too. Mike Smith and he said he'd have something possibly next week but >> I'll next week. >> He thinks he but yeah, unless we can maybe you know, cut out a few things to be >> Well, that was the other thing you wanted to ask too is like the road that

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comes through here it's getting overgrown or the just the stuff on the side is growing into the road. He was going to ask for permission to just cut you know, vertical off the side of the road so you can drive the truck in that cuz it's really the only access now. >> No no trees no chain saws.

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>> Right. >> It's like whacker and that's like like like long >> I think we should go look first. >> Yeah, that's where I'm at for. I mean if you want to send Eric I want to come out and >> Well, we yeah. How how overgrown is it now? >> I thought it'd be fine but here but it scratches

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the heck out of your beard. >> Yeah, I mean it's possible to get back there. >> 6 or 8 ft of no pricklers and then there's probably 3 ft of pricklers there and >> Yeah. >> No, I know roads stuff like that. >> it's I've been on trails like that and um

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so Well, I'm not here next week, so >> Yeah, I'm on vacation next week. >> I'm leaving tomorrow, so I can't >> Yeah, there's no mean. I'm just saying. >> Oh. >> Why don't we set up some time to have a meeting up there? >> Yeah. >> Look at it.

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>> Sure. >> The week after sometime if you >> I'm gone. I'm gone those 2 weeks after next week. >> Oh, I just don't want to The impressions of me are very mis- I mean >> And every time uh something somebody does something,

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I'm the one that did it. >> Well, unfortunately, it it falls on you cuz it's your property. >> back to the South Road subdivision. >> [snorts] >> Whatever. >> Which is insane because the detention basin we're talking about it should never been built.

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>> Well, it cuz it was built. >> know. >> There was two There's two detention basins in that project, all in there. >> Yeah. Well, okay. So, you want to >> Yeah, I'll email you guys something something something. >> Sure. >> That works for me. >> Yeah. We'll take a look at it. >> I know every- it's summer vacation for a

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lot of everybody. >> Right. >> And if we get the plans for Mike, that'd be great. >> Yeah, and I'll have to >> plans for Mike and >> There you go. >> You know, to >> Okay. That sounds good. >> Yeah. And and when I go to start clearing a larger portion, I would present Steve would present uh >> Yeah, we do it in a wire or R&D

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depending on how far he is from wetlands. >> The ideal The ideal is to turn this back into some kind of like agricultural use. And ideally with the entrance here. Like that's what he wants, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, understood. >> That's what the use was. >> We can't >> [laughter]

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>> I don't know why. I'm not asking for They keep saying I'm going to build a subdivision here. Which is totally untrue. >> Well, >> I don't think you can do a subdivision and have the entrance on that town. >> I don't know. >> Yeah, I mean,

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the earliest I'm available is the week of the 13th of July. So, I don't know what you guys know what you're shooting for, but sometime >> Sure, he'll set something up and let you know and >> Yeah, yeah. >> Okay, we'll do seconds. Okay.

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Sounds good. >> I'm going to switch tracks a little bit. Um I'm very concerned about the most important resource we have in town, which is wire. All these little streams and wetlands eventually dump into the stream. >> Thank you for coming.

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>> Thank you. >> And the Scantic's in bad shape. There's high levels of E. coli. I've spoken with the Connecticut Scantic River River Association. They're concerned. Um we're going to be doing some testing

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to see how high the levels are. And also, the other point I want to bring up there is a farm near the solar fields on Mill Road. They only irrigated for one or two days the other day. This wasn't a long period, but in previous years, they've literally drained the

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river dry. You know, where where raccoons go out and eat out of the muscle. >> Well, they need to have they to pull from the river, they have to have a DEP >> Well, they don't. Well, they don't. >> They don't have that? I'll say even if they're pumping the river dry, they're they're in excess of what they're

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>> They they do pump it really, really low. Yeah, cuz all of it last summer, I seen I seen it get down to probably about 3 in. So, >> like something that we should call the DEP. >> I have filed a complaint. They said talk to the local commission, Bob. And check to see if he has a permit. And

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if he has a permit, >> All right. >> it's farming. There's a there's a there has to be a meter meter on his pump. And they're only allowed to pump like 90,000 gallons a day. >> So, which trout which were in there >> So you're going down North Road, the farm on the solar farm on the left

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before the border. >> Well, there's two of them there. >> It's across from the solar fields. It's I think 142. It's It's the old Whitney place. >> You're talking about that the little farm. >> Lease it to the farmer is from Meadowbrook. >> Right. Okay. >> And I'm not against farming. I'm not

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against the farmer. But I'm against drying up the river which I've seen happen numerous times in the >> Yeah. >> Not do Not And and noise The noise of those pumps I mean I If I had my windows open, it's hard to

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sleep in there. >> Mhm. >> They're that close. So I suppose I could go under a DC to seven decibels, but I just don't want to see the river sucked dry. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Yeah, Bonnie, we should have some information on there, right?

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Did they have to file anything when they put those solar fields in next to >> Well, it's not the solar field. He's talking the farm land across the street. >> you're thinking of solar um >> No, they're pulling the water for irrigation. >> On the solar field farm on the side, there is a

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10 acres that kind of go hook around the solar field. >> Yeah. >> He grows corn and he waters that, too. >> Yeah, but mainly it's the one across the street. >> I I mean I actually believe >> On the corner of Carmody. >> I mean I actually believe one farmer has drained the Scantic to

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that level by himself. You don't know how to be and how he can? One farmer, the whole Scantic? >> Have you seen the pump he has? >> No. >> No. >> I'm just thinking out loud basically. I I'm not saying yes or no. I'm just thinking out loud. >> And what is the Scantic

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>> And it has been solid >> And what it starts near Monson and ends um up in So it's broad. It's 38 miles long till it reaches Connecticut. >> Yeah. >> It's 6 miles here to Hampden. And the tributaries the water test for

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the E. coli will be taken where the tributaries like Laughing Brook, Westbrook >> Yeah, we know about the Yeah. >> So we just >> Not to interrupt that, but we were at the select board meeting last week. They had a presentation on um

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Who was that? >> Storm water. >> Storm water. >> Yeah, they have a plan. >> talking about that. >> Yeah. >> I will make contact with the selectmen there because I don't want to see this continued. It's um we're all worried so much about

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these wetlands. That's the major source. Is >> Is there anything we could do? >> We could get in contact with the owner. >> Uh well, it's It's Meadowbrook. >> Meadowbrook Farm. >> They they lease in the property.

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>> Yeah. They lease that farm that property from >> have pictures of that that pump you're talking about? >> You can see it from the road. >> They're leasing that so much property road. >> They had two pumps over years. Um I I'm pretty probably know the river better than anyone in town.

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>> You >> I have land upstream from that. >> Okay. >> My section of There's fresh water muscles. >> Where's the Where's the pump? >> I can hear it. >> Yeah. >> Is this the property?

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>> This This is the farmland here and this is the >> How is it probably pumping that water? >> pumping right from here. Uh area number 20 is my other property. >> Oh. >> So I'm in pretty This This is a property >> of >> of my family's trust. >> Yeah.

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>> And um >> So where's the pump visible from Mill Road? >> Upstream from me and that >> So on Mill Road >> On Mill Road >> You can see it from the bridge. >> The pump would be It's pumping right out of here. That's pumping here and last year they had two pumps. One here and one here.

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And they had no permits and no meters. >> Right below that 25, that's where the bridge is. >> Yeah. >> Right below the Bridge is The bridge is right here. >> Yeah, I know the bridge is. >> This is This is the river and the bridge would be right here.

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>> I I know some people at the EPA. I could probably bend their ear and get some answers. >> Well, you can If you Google some stuff, you can see there's limits of But to to find out a limit, you have to have a meter. >> Yeah. So, it's it's there's a whole

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permit process that these guys don't even deal with. >> Yeah. Mostly the EPA itself. >> Perfect. Yeah. I don't know if you guys get copied on those water withdrawal permits so you know what's going on or not. I have no idea. >> I I just see it. >> You guys see that stuff in the water again? >> Yeah. Okay.

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>> Once the water is lowered, the raccoons go out and eat all the plants. They eat all the frogs. They eat everything in sight. >> Yeah. >> I'll follow up on it. >> Yeah. We'll look into it. >> And I'll update you on the water test that will be coming be taking this summer. >> Yeah.

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>> Cuz I think the E. coli E. coli is at their above acceptable levels now. They're over 575 per million right now in the river. And it's just My kids swim in with my grandkids my More my grandkids than my kids. And um

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>> Well, that's what they said at the presentation for the storm water that >> This river is is like a gem that we don't even >> Oh, yeah. Oh, I know. I I used to walk up and down as a kid and pull trash out of it. >> Yeah. So much stuff I had to wash out from >> Downstream. >> when they allowed it in the areas like

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that. Kids used to jump off the tape and road bridge. It was 10 ft 8 ft of water. >> Oh. >> Kids used to jump off the tape the mill road bridge. 8 ft of water. >> Mhm. >> Now there's >> Yeah. >> 3 ft of water. >> If that. >> When that guy drains it, I have like 2

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or 3 ft of water at my property at number 20. When I walk behind my house, which is located here, back to the river, you can see where it is a wet a wet area that was was wet um

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before it got drained quickly and now there's only a foot of water in the river. The river is very small for the first most of the Androscoggin cuz it really widens out to the Connecticut. >> I mean there's been a continual uh

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drop in the levels of the Scantic over time I believe because >> Well, yeah. Um >> probably the winters we get aren't aren't producing enough accumulation and then when it you know the spring spring comes >> for the last 10 or 15 years it's a hotter year which

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>> Right. >> it's evaporating that river quickly. >> Right. Right. Correct. >> So I'm just very concerned about it. >> Yeah. >> He's got septic. >> Yeah. Okay. We'll look into that. Didn't know about it. >> I think it's odd too that they say we're having coli but we don't have any plan

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to how to how do we get rid of it. It's like a time bomb presents it's like >> Well you've got to find the source. It's it's a septic comes from septic. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well >> They said army >> Yeah. >> It can come from farming if the animals are allowed to track to the river. >> Right.

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>> A lot of wash up but but there's no there's not a farm upstream. Right. There's no farms left except for this one that the guy's leasing. And the other thing is I mean he puts out what he uses for for fertilizer. I've seen the bags. It's urea. It's

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9300. That's the new nitrogen and the phosphorus and potassium. >> That's the other thing that they said >> gets into the water. That's why south downstream of that property there's algae blooms. >> Yeah. It's high nitrogen down there.

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They said that. Yep. But they did say that it it has been investigated. Storm water related and there are no illegal discharges upstream. >> I think well >> That so >> most likely coming from people that a

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lot of people don't fix their septic and they don't pump their septic. A lot of a lot of houses were allowed 20 years ago when a lot of that area was built north of Latin Brook. >> Yeah. >> It has and and one of my concerns and

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nothing against La Casa Bella, they have great food. But when that food septic put in there, there's a lot of gray area there. There's a big septic right behind the building. >> Yeah, we know we went through that. >> where the septic you know how close the Saugatuck River is there? You know how big it is?

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>> I know. >> And my name is >> We know where you are. >> Been to the buffers up >> I know. >> So, that that could be the main source right there. I'm not saying and I'm nothing against the people at that complex. >> I understand. >> But I mean things like that when that

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septic system was put in >> Well >> It's very easy. Well, it's it's a brand new one. It's only a couple years old now. >> But if that's where the source is coming, we'll find out. Let's look at this calendar. >> Well, they do

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they do test it, so >> Upstream, downstream, you know, where it jumps up it's >> Well, I mean, some of those septics are probably at the point where they're failing, too, at this point. Correct. So >> Correct.

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>> Well, anyways We have anything else we need to >> Well, I think just to close our time with Russ, I think you should go over to >> We all get that get it cuz the the monument thing is we don't like September 15th. >> Right. Okay. >> That's only two months.

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So, make sure I like everyone >> Sure. >> Okay. So >> So, the date the dates changed on the monuments? >> No. No, that's the same. >> The monument is September 15th. >> The other one got moved to May. >> Yes. >> Planting. >> Right. >> Yes. >> So, this is attached to your copy there.

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And this is what we require per signage. >> Okay. >> And this has to be completed, meaning you have to do this, you have to pay for this by >> Get somebody to do it. >> Yeah, yeah. Get someone to do this and

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pay for them to do it by September 15th. >> Okay. Is somebody going to copy all this too? I don't need a hard copy of the whole of you >> Oh, yeah, yeah. I can send it to you. >> Does Does it Is it in here the signage? >> Yeah, it's fantastic.

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>> And so there's the size and there's the search and then where to face it and which way to face it and all that. >> Yeah, you have this, right? >> Okay. I I I got to I got to look at this. >> Yeah. >> But I'm sure it's it's standard. Or well, we're all kind of thing >> Is it on the last page? On the last page of your document. Check

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right now. >> What was the first one again? >> Yeah, signage is the second one. >> Wait, I see it looks like what he's holding up. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah. That has to be completed by May 31st. >> Do this problem.

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>> What is it? >> Do this code. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, yeah. That >> Let me look it over. I'm sure it's reasonable. >> Yeah. And then the revegetation plan which you're working on, um that has to be completed by

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May 31st. >> So, I install it by then. So, I'd have to complete the plan and get it approved by you guys at some point. >> And the payment >> later in the summer or fall or whatever for the irrigation. >> I'm giving the implementation. >> Mhm. Fair enough. >> Okay.

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So, that That's all good. That makes sense. >> I mean, I just wanted the perms are very nice people. You know. >> No, I don't. I'm not. And um you know, I I don't I haven't been on this property much in the last 25 years.

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Uh my two daughters live up here. I don't live up here. I don't patrol and see, you know, you know, I mean, it's more like neighborhood watch than than me. >> Mhm. >> But I understand that >> Yeah, I mean, that's up to you if your property is responsible.

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>> But I didn't want to get into and I talked I talked to Dean months ago and I said, you know, do you want me to have my letters my my lawyer send you a letter? We kind of agreed let's settle this without lawyers. >> Okay. Good. >> I'd rather spend money on the restoration plan than a

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lawyer. >> Yes, absolutely. Good. >> I think we >> Yeah. >> accomplished a lot. >> Yeah. >> And now I got a lot off my chest. I'll be probably at most of all the next meetings. >> Okay. >> I'm going to die. So probably

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I'll be here. >> Uh okay. >> All right. >> That's fine. >> Sure. Well, thank you for coming and but I mainly >> working this out. >> I think just to get this rolling and straightened out I'm probably going to be here the next six meetings anyway. >> Okay. That's fine.

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>> And I'll update you, you know, I'll let >> Yeah. >> I got some some people here. I mean I mean Connecticut Scenic River Watershed. I mean, we're we're we're We we got such a beautiful resource. We're not >> I know. >> It's night and day. >> Yep. >> You go down there, there's a park,

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there's parks, there's canoeing, there's picnicking and um >> Down there all the time. >> And um people in Hamden are like don't even know the river exists. >> Yeah, I know. >> And it's such an important >> Well, the VFW does. I can confirm that with you.

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>> Yeah, that's true. >> She knows, too. >> I do. I do know. >> She's protecting it. >> They have their events in the river. And then there's the picnic area. >> I go every year. >> My kids and grandkids have gone to for 50 years. >> Yeah, good stuff.

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>> But I think we're all here for the same purpose cuz you know, none of us want to see or contaminate water in town. >> Okay. >> All right. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Have a good one, everybody. >> All right. Take care, guys. >> See you.

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>> I don't talk too much. >> You're all good, Russ. Have a good one. >> Good luck with the meeting. Thank you. >> Yeah, have a good night. >> Okay, you can talk about the take or Shaker Road. >> Yeah, just update everybody. >> Um

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About the CR. >> Yeah. It's all set. >> No. >> No. >> Oh. The 109 acres at Shaker Road, uh is not yet the CR is not yet ready to

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be signed. They got a call from Lady Wilder yesterday and they will definitely have it ready for our July meeting. >> Okay. >> And and Russ, you know, his property, his 100 acres back up to that,

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but he um he's not comfortable with this with a CR, so they're >> Oh, really? >> They're working with him on >> Oh. >> different avenues to protect the land. >> What's his problem with the CR? >> It's not my business. >> I know. I was

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>> He said they were difficult to work with. >> Mhm. >> Oh. They are. Okay. Okay. >> Can I open that one? >> That's it. >> Okay. >> And nothing you did so please plan to do this.

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Um um Like that matter? >> Yeah, lastly I put the letter from Jonathan at 5:30 London in all your folders, so you want to read that? You have it right there. >> That's the email that you sent, right?

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>> Yeah. So, I yeah. I did what you guys voted on. I contacted the um I touched his attorney directly with the response just asking, you know, before we pursue legal route, they voted to inquire about where the agriculture

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occurs and what it is specifically. Um and we can read what he said. >> Yeah. >> Um I also at least what I'm getting from it is I specifically said in a lot of my letters to him before I said, "The things that um Gina submitted before

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um don't directly give direct evidence per se, but they let us to investigate the property and we other potential violations came to light." I said that very specifically, but I think he is kind of reiterating that Gina's points have So we said Gina's points have no

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evidence, but that's beside the point cuz that's in writing. But just to let you know, that's why he said that in there. Um so yeah, I think Oh, I also talked to um Brian Rotondo, the town administrator, about this and he said um the uh

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before we will get uh the attorney involved, the new attorney Our new town attorney is going to be here July. So we'll just have to wait to for the attorney to come before bringing it to the select board. Um and also just to He said take in have the commission take into consideration cuz you're probably going to have to go in front of

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the select board to do this. Um you know, the financial burden because the you know, town of town is hourly and um you know, it's not they're not hourly. >> I don't know if they are. >> Retainer? >> Yeah, yeah. >> I thought they were. >> No. >> It depends on this case, then?

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>> I don't know. >> But I think they used to be. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I cuz I watch this I watch select board meetings every week and I think they had talked about getting paid per hour. But I'm waiting for them to look at the bylaw that I worked on. So I've been following it. >> Yeah, I specifically asked cuz of that. They're hourly.

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>> you. >> They're hourly. Yeah. >> So um yeah, so I guess if you want to vote tonight or the final vote based on all this, um and feel free to >> I mean, we we work for the town. What

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does the town want to do with this? I mean, that's where I come from. >> Right. I mean, in my opinion, when you bring to the select board, they're probably just going to say, "Well, it's what you guys vote on. You have the power for this." >> Right. >> Um, you know, I'm sure they'll inquire things and they'll be like, "Oh, are you

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sure? Like, show us all these things." But, uh, you know, it is your vote. >> So, my question goes back to the bylaws issued that the whole town was in agreement with that we are allowed to go on property to

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inspect. Based upon, you know, the resources, the natural So, what what's what's the ruling with that? That that's just what? For show? That's not real? Or what what does that mean?

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>> The rules are >> So, are they removing that? Is it being removed? >> staying in. I was confused about it, too, but she our previous attorney made it She explained it that is in the bylaws conditionally. Like, if someone has set

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up an NOI or RDA with us, they have checked the box that the commission is now allowed to do all the things in the bylaw, and go on the property when they want. >> Okay, so we should rephrase that, then. >> That's what I'm saying. And that's why in the future you might want to But, it's confusing to me because pretty

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much every town Massachusetts has that wording. Just so you know. Um, but um, yeah, you know, whatever horse sentiment it is. >> So, Trump's out. >> Once they file with us for whatever reason

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or something, that gives us permission to go there whenever we need to. >> Specifically >> So, in this case, he has not filed anything. It uh other than the previous

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solar project, which is >> Re-clearing thing count? Because he filed that? >> Through the state. >> with the state. So, yeah. >> a little different. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, I I get that the wording is annoying in the bylaw.

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But, that's you know, that's where we're at. So, again, you have the packet of evidence in your folders, and you want to talk it over, go ahead. But, I think this is the time to drive to a final vote, figure out what you want to do.

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Weighing all the weighing, you know, all the things that are going to come with this. >> Is this a little off topic? Was Do we ever get clarification on the agriculture thing? >> No, they denied. >> No. >> Um, and he said >> He said go pound sand. >> I can show you the email.

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>> No, I'm glad I was just I was wondering because I had I did I did a little bit of homework on 61, and it seems like you know, you five acres of land, etc., etc. I just This isn't just this property. I'm just trying to understand the chapter program in general, and it seems

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like can you can you classify an entire lot? Or is is anybody actually ever use an entire lot? Because I remember with Judy talking about this piece of property in particular, and she said no land, no property ever uses 100% even

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for agriculture. So, I'm just trying to like wrap my head around that. I know that's separate from the violation thing. I just was trying to understand it myself. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Um, no. The The way the provisions The agricultural provisions of the Wetlands Protection Act work, it's not the entire um

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>> [clears throat] >> the entire piece of land. Can't get And it's only the specific places where agriculture is happening. So, if that happens to be the whole area, sure. >> So, is that the that separate from the wetland regulations versus the chapter because I know the it's like almost the

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entire lot is being classified as 61A. >> And the the the chapter classification is separate. >> Oh, from the wetland Okay, that was my >> Yes, it's separate. >> I was a little confused on that. >> I mean, I in my personal belief, I think this should

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be tabled until >> When you say there's a new attorney coming on board? >> Well, >> I mean, continue what you're going to say, but I mean, the new attorney's going to be here in a couple of weeks. So, I think having a vote ready, you know, cuz >> I mean, my fear is uh

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whatever is ruled on, the um it establishes a precedent. Okay? So, as soon as we say, "Okay, forget it." it basically comes down to anyone can see the steps that was taken to prevent us from doing anything on behalf of the town. >> Mhm. >> So, that doesn't stop it prevent it

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doesn't stop anyone else from taking the same type of steps. >> Yeah. >> And that's my only fear is that you know, once we decide, "Okay." then everyone else can be like, "Oh, look. This is what you have to do." You know? So, I that's the only part where I'm

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uh you know, have questions. >> My my personal opinion on this is uh I'd like to just wash our hands of it. No offense to all the effort that you've done. But, just in this case, but

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like you said, it's going to set a precedent. I don't want to do that. >> So, I know. Cuz I'll like you said, other people are going to see this, and my vote's no. Same as the last time. >> What is it? >> My vote's no, same as last time. I just

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don't think we have enough. Like like he says we don't decide probable cause, but You know what I do for a side job? That's what I'm looking at. Do we have enough? I don't I don't think so. That's why I'm staying with no. >> Yeah. I I I totally get what you're saying.

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The only thing I I can tell you continuing to struggle with and like what is probable cause then? How you supposed to get it? >> That they're more than likely which all we're going off unfortunately is hearsay. You know what I'm saying? >> But then how [clears throat] is the conservation commission work? >> Exactly. That's why he That's why he

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said it's opening up the can of worms. Like look at me. I I put a lot of money into my property like See? Could have done something else. No. >> Is Is it considered probable cause though we had you know Ty and Van actually went out there and saw it. I mean I'm the one who gathered the information. I

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I'm just saying. >> Mhm. >> Is it really hearsay if they said what is this? We were out there. It was. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean in the past >> gathered the information. I just piled it. >> In in the past it was you know if a

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neighbor saw something and they reported to the commission we had an obligation to follow it up. >> Yeah. >> So if we're not allowed to follow it up then what's the point? And I I don't I don't get it. >> Frank, there's the question. You still struggling? >> Well the commission usually followed it

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up by uh going to that neighbor's house or another one and then looking at the property. >> Yeah. >> Somebody else's property. be done too. >> You have a piece of land. How are you supposed to do that? >> Right. You can't. Right. There's no no legal way. >> Maybe maybe one person on the north end

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you can see a little bit but that's that's what's wrong. >> Yeah, I know. Well, we got my boots. >> That's true. >> [laughter] >> I don't know. >> Do you have anything to say against So yeah. Talk

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as as much as you want cuz this will probably you know be an endeavor. So, I think you should probably go we want to. >> Okay, well, I I think it should be brought up legally with the attorney at least.

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Since they're involving attorney, shouldn't we involve ours? >> We already have. You know, talked to Rose about it. >> And they just said forget it. That's what they said. Forget the whole thing. >> She she told me to do all the things I've been doing. >> Yeah. >> Continue talking and, you >> Yeah. >> try to

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um show them why do you want to do this before actually, you know, going to court and everything like that. Um another thing Brian said is that, you know, we can, you know, I should once we have a new attorney, I'll talk to them, too, cuz they can also say something. >> I'd be curious their interpretation on

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what it says and what they might be about. >> Yeah. >> That That's my thought and wait for the new attorney and talk to them first. Get their opinion. >> But ultimately, they were going to say they're going to and, you know, she told me it's your vote.

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>> Yes, no, I right. >> You've got a vote once you do. >> But that's what I'm saying. What if we're not allowed to do anything? We can vote all we want. Doesn't mean anything is going to happen or we're just going to get more of these letters. >> Well, I I'm we're not going to send I'm not going to talk to them anymore. Like we're done with that. So,

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>> Okay. >> So, the email says they're not talking to us anymore. >> Yeah, so so what, you know? >> It's it's either, I guess, you dismiss it or you continue on it, you know. >> Okay. >> I guess go to court or we start the

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process of it. >> Well, great idea to table. >> Yeah. Till the lawyer's here and then talk to the lawyer. >> Or buy them. >> Just just get a feel for it and then cuz it does the bylaw doesn't say only

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if an NOI is filed. It, you know, >> I I think it's just cuz the fourth amendment, whatever amendment it is, trumps that, you know? >> Then why does it exist at all? It never should have been written that way. >> Mhm. Right. >> Who wrote the bylaw? >> if every town has the same thing in

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their bylaws, how come every town has the same thing if it's not allowed? >> And that's why I'm confused. Like she said it's, you know, like gun laws, state, and then our town bylaws. Like that's the hierarchy. So I That's why I'm confused in why it says that if if there is a hierarchy.

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>> I thought a state could be more >> I mean, a town? >> Yeah. Like >> The state over over supersedes the town, but they don't want any part of this. >> Yeah, they said they they sent it back to us. >> Yeah. >> And what was his reasoning? There's not

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Did he say there wasn't enough to go on? >> He said he Mark he >> Stenson? >> Yeah, he um, you know, he does he doesn't want to get into the specifics cuz he doesn't want me to say Mark Stenson said this, you know, but he, you know, indirectly kind of told me like he he would follow

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up on it and he said it's not as big of an issue for him to take it over. >> Yeah. >> And personally, he probably would. Yeah. But >> I mean, I get the whole table >> I

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I make a motion to table this until next month. >> I'll second. >> All in favor? Aye. >> Aye. >> One moment. >> What's the number month? >> I understand the precedent thing though. >> Yeah. >> But it's like >> Right. >> the money, it all goes downhill. So that

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gentleman's talking about E. coli, it's like >> Well, I know. >> You know, it's it's hard. How do you How do you weigh it? >> But I don't want >> to say >> He's second. We'll Yeah. >> It's a hard call. I res >> I don't I don't want other people seeing this whole thing and say, "Oh, well, he did it. I can do this, too."

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>> Right. >> That's all. I mean, it was, you know, something was brought a win a a neighbor said something and it was brought to our attention because the neighbor had You were the neighbor. >> No, well >> Well, I brought it to your attention because of the tree clearing plan and I said, "Oh."

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>> Yeah. >> And then I said, "Oh, wait." >> There were other other neighbors too that also mentioned things past. So, it was not just specifically you, but yes, you followed up on it later, but um yeah, I I mean, I don't know. >> we have DEP, we got time bond, we got

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the commission when all that was going on. It's hard It's hard call. Like I said, I respect whatever commission decides. >> Next month, uh you know. >> It may be um >> Yes, it'll be finalized then.

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>> Scott and your mom will be here, too, and the loose get two more voices. >> Yeah. >> When I When I saw Scott, he it depends on he's at I don't know, his whole foot just got re-operated. He's going to be tied up for 6 weeks, but he

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could still zoom in. >> That's what I told him. But he's Actually, that's that's the good point. Well, he was at that presentation. And I said that to him because he's having that today. >> Oh.

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>> I said and I said uh unless you're under the weather, you can zoom in. He says, "Oh, yeah, that's a good point." So, he must be under the weather. >> Not the day of [laughter] the conference. >> That's what I'm saying. So, that I just remembered that part. >> Uh my mother would zoom in, but she's

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not very good with uh >> I had to teach mine. I get it. >> technology like that. >> I do have one question, though. So, worst case scenario, and I think you guys decide not to vote to pursue it, it's closed. What hap- What would happen in 6 months time if something else

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happens? >> We'll reopen. Well, it's a new It's a new thing. >> It'll be new. Okay. >> So, we have anything else to go over? All right, you know what? >> Um we did get a um and we don't have to discuss it at all tonight, but um there's a woman that

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lives on 420 420 Main Street, the um old bulky house. I don't know if you know if you know him. Next to Dana Pitchley. It doesn't really >> I don't know where Dana's is either. >> But um in any event um she lives [snorts] right on the river

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and she has four trees that are um dead. >> Yeah. >> And um then she has another one as well uh between her house and Dana's. And of course he is a tree warden. >> Yeah. >> But um

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she ran into Judy Brewer cuz Judy is belongs to the Garden Club with this woman. And Judy told her to file a RDA. And we got that yesterday, so >> Okay. >> I'll put it in the paper and um she will be into our July meeting.

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>> Okay. So, >> [clears throat] >> is this down the Laughing Brook end or >> No, no, no, it's right dead center in the middle of Main Street. You know where James Pediculous lived? >> Kind of.

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>> Well, it's going this way a couple of few houses. >> Okay. >> She has a white picket fence in the front. >> Cool. I assume she just wants to cut the trees cut the trees down to the base and >> Yeah, yeah, she doesn't want them long. >> Yeah, that's what she wants. Yeah,

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that's it. All right, that's it. Anything else, anybody? Our next meeting is July 15th. >> Yes. >> Okay. No specials between now and then? >> Um no, let's leave. >> Yeah, he's talking to them. Yeah.

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>> Then we have to [clears throat] then we go do that. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we don't have to go see that other lady or that guy. There's There's we're okay. Yeah. >> Yeah, we can wait till the next meeting for the CR to be signed. Wasn't there a timeline she had?

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>> Yeah, but July is okay. >> July is still okay? >> Yeah, that's that's it. >> I think I think it was like August 1st or something like that that she had to have it done. All right, so >> Mhm. >> Oh, also last thing um something Brian also reiterated to me

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with dealing with any of these issues, um members of the commission can't talk about them amongst each other as outside just like anything. Any Right. Um just so you know, you can talk You can talk to either of us, but that's it.

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>> I'll put it on the main >> Got it. >> All right. >> I make a motion to close the meeting 7:22. >> Second. All in favor? >> I I I I