WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=QK6TqAXRPYc

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: QK6TqAXRPYc):
- 00:00:02: Wetland Buffer Zone Clearing Inquiry and Discussion
- 00:05:51: Discussing Filing a Request for Determination Form
- 00:08:22: Opacum Land Trust: Conservation Restriction Request Update
- 00:20:50: Introducing Heather: Environmental Science Student Seeking Involvement
- 00:24:52: Russ Property: Wetland Disturbance and Restoration Discussion
- 00:27:04: Steve Elaborates on Wetland Delineation Findings
- 00:30:52: Discussing Plan Enforcement and Next Steps for Restoration
- 00:41:27: Continued Discussion of Shooting and Russ Property
- 00:42:39: Ann Murphy Property: Building Plans and RDA Discussion
- 00:47:53: Clarifying RDA vs NOI Forms
- 00:49:20: 530 Glendale: Attorney Response and Investigation Options
- 00:50:33: Discussion on Agricultural Exemptions and Statute of Limitations
- 01:05:37: Commission Members Express Differing Opinions on Next Step
- 01:06:44: Discussion Regarding Agriculture Exemption Validity
- 01:12:17: Determining Next Steps for Requesting Proof of Agriculture
- 01:16:55: Meeting Updates and Adjournment


Part: 1

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Okay, that's first there. >> Who's first? What do you want to do first? >> Oh, well, um I was just speaking to Joe about it now. >> Yep. >> All right. But Jonathan is here, so I think we should probably Okay.

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>> Him first. Sure. Sitting here. which I don't have anything about is >> you want to speak to the commission correct blanking up and up since 4 a.m. the uh where the water uh whatever the

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>> the border of the wetland. >> Yeah, the wetlands. There you wetlands creep into the to the uh access road there. How far away do do I have to say from that when I'm clearing? And then what do I have to do to put up cell fences? I'm not sure. What else?

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just to ensure I don't get in trouble. >> Um, you're looking it up. >> So, you're referring these wetlands by the >> Yeah, it comes in there. I mean, I'm just assuming that I need to stay like how far do I have to stay way when I'm

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>> I'm not clearing anything on the side of the the road there, but when you start the driveway coming up towards the house, I'd like to take a few of those trees down because they're kind of in the way, especially when I go to the 50 feet with the turnaround for the fire truck and all that. Yeah. So, for context, there there from Summers Road, correct me if I'm wrong, there's a

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driveway. Yes. Comes here, comes here. Y >> and then goes to the house. >> Yes. >> So, the driveway is somewhat within the 200 foot riverfront area. Um you can see it here. So, if

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you wanted to alter the vegetation, >> I'm not doing anything in that except for just uh maintaining it like we talked about. I'll probably throw some stone down and stuff, but >> at the top when I turn into the driveway, there's some trees, you know, on either side of the where the driveway comes in. Is that a problem?

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>> Where is that? Where are the trees? >> Yeah, sure. >> So, basically, you turn in basically right here. And so, there's some trees right here that I' I'd like to take out, but I mean, I don't know if that's a problem or not.

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>> Because I am The way it's going to clear is pretty much like this. I'll clear back pretty far just so I get some sun. >> But but right here is my question. >> You want to enlarge that opening there? >> Yeah. I want to widen it up a little bit and I'm going to have to level a little bit because it's it gets pretty steep right there.

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>> So do we have all the layers on >> for wetlands? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. So I mean it just bumps in here into the driveway here, but >> So just on the property there's just natural heritage. >> Okay. Okay. And you're going to stay away from that? I mean without

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physically measuring it, >> it looks on Yeah. the GIS. >> As long as you stay 25 feet from that wet land that's above >> it is and I'll I'll verify. >> Can't do anything in that 21st 25 ft. >> Yeah. I mean the road itself is a majority of that. So

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>> yeah, it doesn't even look like you're going within 100 feet if you stand below. >> Right. It doesn't bel. But yeah, I'm just saying that 25 ft is >> all I need to know about that. And so and when I'm >> and I would say when you have plans all done

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to let us look at it. >> Okay. Yeah. For the for the final grading and all that. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What about clearing? Because I probably need to get going on that about two to three weeks. >> They're clearing where and the house is going to go in. >> The house and I'm I'm going to clear. >> That's all out of out of the wetlands.

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Stay away from the national heritage. You're good. Right. >> Yep. And that's, >> you know, unless you have some endangered species on you, >> but that's that would be in the national heritage. >> There's also endangered species that's not a natural heritage, like certain flowers and plants and stuff like that.

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>> So that's that's federal anyway. >> Well, I don't think he's you're not going >> I'm not going into it right now. I'll be out of it completely. I've already at where it comes up close to the driveway, I've already marked it and it goes up the hill away from where I'm going. I'm going more on this angle away from

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>> with like coordinates and everything. >> Yeah. Yeah. I pulled the GPS coordinates off of the site and then went out there with one of the apps and I don't I'm staying about 10 ft away from where I marked it out. So at least 10. >> Okay. >> And you're only maintaining the driveway that's in the 200 foot riverfront area.

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>> Yeah. That's the only thing I'll be doing to the driveway is just >> And it's already there. >> Yeah. >> Now, are you rebuilding >> on the foundation that is Do you have a foundation left there? >> No. Foundation's ripped out. The only thing that's left is a shallow water well. So,

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>> but you're pretty much going in the same place. >> Yeah, it'll stretch out a little bit on either direction because I'm not doing a basement single level. >> But that's all well out of everything anyway. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, closest will probably come to that line as 25 30 feet. I'm going up

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the hill and I'm not going to I'll make sure I stay away from it when I >> as well because I know I'm not supposed to affect anything beyond it. So, >> yeah. Okay. Simple as that. Yeah. All right. Well, I appreciate your time

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to approve. >> Well, I want to see it the plan first. >> Okay. >> So, I don't know what should you file an NOI or >> RDA. >> Yeah. >> And then we'll look at that and then

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>> Yeah. >> Just bring the plans back into you and um >> Yeah. What he's saying is um there's a form called a request for determination and um even though this property and the

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driveway been there, rules change. >> So um it would be best for you to file a request for determination. You can um find that right online if you if you go into the Hampton uh web page and then um

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conservation and then there's a section where you can um pull up different forms and it's right there. >> Okay. And but not until I have the grading plans. I guess do you want to see all that or just go and find? >> Yeah, it all goes together. Yeah. >> Yeah. Just put everything in there like

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you know where you where the well is, where the septic, all that. just put it all in there and then um get it back to us. >> Yeah, that's Yeah. >> And then um I have to put it in the paper. I have um it the form itself is

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free. Doesn't cost you anything, but then I do have to run it in the paper um before our next meeting. Um and I I like to have like a two week leeway to get it in in time. Um, so work on that as fast

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as you can and then maybe I could get it in um get you back in here with a um official permission during our June meeting. >> I mean the the the map itself can be handdrawn. >> Okay. >> Just as a location where everything is.

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>> So I go ahead and Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Without the actual plan >> says it'll probably be four weeks before the survey, you know, >> okay, I appreciate And and if not, I don't know how how quickly you plan on on on building, but um if if you get the

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paperwork in, but it's too late for the June meeting. We have had special meetings on occasion. >> If I can hand draw it, I'll have it back in. I'll have it probably in the next couple days because that's fine. Yep. >> All right. I appreciate your time.

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Thanks for coming in. Thank you. >> Thanks for coming in. Okay. Who's next? >> See Liberty. >> Um 650. >> Okay. >> So, do you want to do you want to hear?

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>> Sure. My name is Wilder. I'm executive director for Opacum Land Trust and I am working with a private forest land owner um in Hampton off of Chapen Road to put their land in a conservation restriction

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and um we have a grant funding called the Forest Legacy Program that we're using to cover the costs for that. And it's a it's a grant that we applied for with the land owner and the town of Hamden back in 2019 and we were awarded

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in 2021. So we've been working to implement it since and I came before the conservation commission about two years ago to talk about the project and I'm coming back now because we're really close to finishing up and we also need to finish up because in July the grant

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funding is gone. So, um I'm here because uh we have a couple things that the conservation commission needs to sign for us. And let me let me go back a little bit. The conservation restriction, the town of Hampton is holding that conservation restriction on

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private forested lands. And it's through the conservation commission who would be monitoring and um stewarding that CR. And so, um, you would need to sign the conservation restriction once it's, uh,

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released for signatures. And then I also have two other forms the grant funding is requiring us. One is a monitoring commitment form saying that the conservation commission is committing to monitoring uh, this property and then a

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landowner commitment form. And that's basically the landowner and the town agreeing to move forward uh to finish this project. So, um I sent those out ahead of time. Um but they and I brought drafts, but they're not complete yet.

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We're just finishing up the survey. Um so, we need to get that final acreage in. And then I need them to be on the Conservation Commission's letter head. That's not a deal breaker if they're not on the letter head, but the grant prefers that they're on the letter head.

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Um, so then I'm just looking at these forms quick here and then yeah, they need to be signed by the conservation commission chair. Um, so I came I'm here tonight to answer any

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questions you guys have. Um, >> yeah. Do you have a map of this property that you can pull up? >> What's the address? >> Um, it's Chapen Road. Uh, see if you go

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I know one of the the Butter's address is 380 Chapen Road, but we're right on the Connecticut border. >> Oh, okay. >> Yep. That one. >> This big one? >> Yes. >> Okay. So that's the parcel that's going into a conservation or a conservation

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restriction. >> Where's this? >> And it's owned by the McKenzie Mary and Megan >> McKenzie. Okay. >> Yeah. This we we had this come up a couple years ago, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. And we just weren't ready. I

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thought we had some things I thought we were ready then, but we weren't. We did a survey and found we had to um sort out some of the boundaries with the neighbors. So, we're we're working on wrapping that up now um through boundary line agreements and then we will be able

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to verify that survey so that we can then get the CR released or from the state, excuse me, for signatures. >> Yeah. >> Um so yeah, uh because the town is holding the CR, I'm

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here to >> Sure. >> I OPAM's role has been a facilitator. So, we've been facilitating the grant. >> Um, we've been spending funds, but then the grants's been reimbursing us. >> Um, so we've been moving it forward in that aspect here and assisting the the

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McKenzies to do this conservation restriction project. But I also want to make sure I'm available to the town for questions, clarifications. And then once the CR is in place, OPAC's more than happy to help um with monitoring. We monitor properties conservation

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restrictions in our own properties. I have some resources from the state and other groups about monitoring. So, we're certainly happy to assist with that as well. >> So, you we need anything to do anything tonight >> or nothing is ready? Nothing's ready

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yet, but I just wanted to Yeah, sure. >> come before you guys and answer questions so that Yeah. >> Hopefully not in July, but hopefully in June I'll be ready and have >> Yeah, I was just going to ask you when do you think you might have something to show us? >> I'm hoping by June. And I was actually

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wondering when the next meetings were just so I can try and >> It would be the third >> Wednesday of June. >> Okay, >> which is 17th. You're faster than I am. >> I'm hoping by June 17th, but at the

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latest it would be for the July meeting. >> Okay. >> Um, does the Fourth of July holiday affect when that meeting lands? >> This will be the third Wednesday. >> But you said you were going to be running out of the uh grant funding? So, I mean, how does that impinge upon what

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you're planning to get to this committee by July? I mean, how what kind of timetable are you looking at with them? Um so one thing the town needs to do and this is working with the town administrator. Um the land owners are being compensated for the value of their

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CR but the grant funding flows from federal to state to the town and then the town cuts a check to the land owner. So there's some work with that. Um a basic state contract that the town signs to make sure that funding flows. um finishing up the review of the CR and

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just inputting that >> your timetable allows for that. >> Yeah, we're we're making it happen. We're working to make it happen. So, I mean >> Yep. Yeah, we >> I think she said August. >> Yeah. So, I want to just make sure >> Yeah, I know. >> Yep.

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>> What's the um >> what's the major features of this property? You just have a perial stream that runs through there and a little uh isolated wet wetland area down there. >> Yeah. along the road. There's a couple um streams and wetlands and then it gets

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really steep. Rattlesnake Hill and it gets very steep and rocky up at the top there. A lot of exposed rocks and things like that. Um the property will be open for public access. So we're hoping to in the next couple years after it's served

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um >> like hiking trails trails so nobody can build >> it runs in Japan. So you can make an access point basically anywhere. >> Public access property. >> How many acres is the >> eventually property? >> It's about 109 acres.

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>> 109 acre >> and it abuts to the north um where it says number four on the map there. That property uh is in a conservation restriction with Machog Land Trust. So it's a really great connection of open space. >> Yeah.

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>> Okay. >> In town. >> I just had to be refreshed. I don't >> Of course. I don't quite recall two years ago. Sounds good to me. Yeah. Uh yeah, was looking for something. >> And is this the adjacent property you were trying to do with it?

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>> Yeah. So that adjacent property was also in the forest legacy program, but they ended up dropping out. Didn't work out. >> That's Russ. >> Yeah. Well, that's right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Out hope to

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>> Yeah, good luck. >> You might be coming in. >> Supposed to be here one minute ago. >> So, um yeah. So, that part the number four, that's where Pine Mountain is,

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>> I think. >> Or I think it's actually over there. But yeah, there's a trail in there already called Jos's Trail. >> Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. >> It was up on Pine Mountain. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, it would be really fun if we can connect.

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>> That would be nice. >> Make a nice long there. Yeah, absolutely. >> And they're gonna they're going to help with the monitoring process. Is that what you said? >> We can we can assist. Yep. Absolutely. Um we're here to be able to support the conservation commission in the future. I also think um DCR at the state level

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they also um are willing to support the forest legacy conservation restrictions as well um in monitoring and and stewarding them as well. So okay and the the plan or the hope is once we we do the conservation restriction first then the land will be transferred to opacum

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land trust from the private land owners so that we would actually be owning the property and then so we're and we like to monitor the properties we own as well. So, you know, once a year we can coordinate with you guys to do some monitoring and walking out there to make

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sure everything's in line. And then >> if we do find anything, it would be Opacum's responsibility to resolve it. Um, >> okay. >> So, what your role would be would is, hey, we found this someone dumped a bunch of tires. You guys need to clean

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it up. Um, sort of thing because that's a violation of the CR. So, but we're hoping this would be a really like great partnership with the town. Um, so yeah, we're we're uh working to get this done. So I just uh yeah, wanted to be able to

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And I guess another question is um for doing the CR signatures, they do need to be notorized. >> So is that something is there a note who can >> Yeah, Eva is right. >> Yeah, we have our um >> clerk town clerk is right across the hall.

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>> Okay. And if I come coming to a meeting like this, it could be notorized at the >> Yeah, we could make that arrangement. >> Yeah, she has stuck around before that. >> Okay. Yes. Um so, uh I'll make sure when I follow back up and I'm let you guys

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know ahead of time that um I'm coming for I will be coming to the meeting for signatures on the CR and I need it. >> Just let us know ahead of time that I can speak to her. >> Yes. >> Yeah, >> we'll do. >> That works. So, >> okay. >> Yeah. So, I just wanted to be able to

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talk to you guys about this again and say we're we're in the home stretch and working to get this over the finish line. So, >> good. >> All right. Looking forward to it. >> Yeah. Awesome. >> I'm going to be happy when that happens. I'm more trail. >> I'll I'll be able to sleep a little better at night. So,

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>> three years, four years. >> Yeah, it's been it's been a long haul between applying the gr it's just federal grants take so long. They have a lot of things you have to do, a lot of due diligence. >> You had a chance. >> You said the grant runs out in July.

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>> Yeah. Well, that's that's when our funding ends. We've gotten what extension and we're trying to get a second extension, but it's not looking good. Um >> Okay. >> So, yeah, >> we are we are trying to make it this happen because after July 31st, we won't have any more funding for the project.

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So, >> well, you have two memory. >> Okay. We're more than willing to uh you know >> Yeah. >> assist whatever needs to be done. Make it happen. >> Special meeting the Sure. >> Yeah. If if I hope it doesn't have to

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come to that, but who knows? Uh we're we're moving forward on a lot of stuff right now, but uh you know, we we always discover more than we thought >> on these projects. So um I appreciate the ability to do a special meeting if needed here. >> Okay. >> Great. Okay.

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All right. >> Well, thank you very much. >> Yeah, I'll be call back. Thank you. >> Okay, take care. >> We have a couple more. Um I mean, we're expecting Russ and and Murphy. Um

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>> neither are here yet. I can Well, I guess while we wait, um I just wanted to let you know on Zoom. Well, we have C here. He he just um did the flagging for um Russ's property. So,

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he'll be here discuss that. >> And also um >> yeah, >> Heather's here. >> Um and I would like if Heather to introduce herself and um why she's here, you can let them know. Um but yeah, if

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you want to go ahead. >> Oh, hi. I'm Heather. >> Um sorry. Um, I am, uh, looking to to sit in with the conservation committee. I'm an environmental science student

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right now at HCC. Um, in my last two semesters, um, planning to transfer to get my bachelor's in environmental science and then move on to get my masters in soil science. Um,

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I just finished up my GIS course and got an A in it, so that's good. Um and my professor is um one of my favorite professors is given us an extension extensive knowledge of wetland delineation and um so I live in

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town and it's just really important to me to help preserve what beauty we do have in our town. And um so that's about it. >> Great. >> Any questions?

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So >> what made you want to uh start going down this road for environmental science? >> Uh I have always been a very outside person. Um hiking um gardening

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just decided to take a career different career path and landed in environmental science and just I love it. Sounds good. Yeah. >> And we have two vacancies right now with the commission, >> right?

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>> So, we could definitely use Heather and um I think her experience would be education be >> valuable. So, um you know, I'd recommend to um vote her in as an associate member and then >> yeah,

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>> when you feel she got to be on the commission. Yeah, that that's what we'd do first is vote you in as an associate. >> You wouldn't be able to vote yet. >> Okay. >> Once you prove yourself, then we'd

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>> and you agree with what you see. >> Yeah. Goes both ways. >> Right. Right. Absolutely. >> Right. Yeah. You have to accept us also. Yes. >> Right. That sounds like a deal. So, the meetings are every third

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Wednesday. It's not a problem. >> Yep. I'm just I'm on vacation now. >> Okay. Okay. >> Sometimes we do like, you know, site inspections where we'd have to go out into a property, sometimes on a weekend, weekday. Um,

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>> so, uh, that might be >> my site assessment class. >> The site visits don't have to have a quorum or anything. >> Yeah. So if you can't make it, you can't make it. But >> yeah, it's just an additional >> Yeah. Um, so yeah, I'll make a motion to

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accept Heather as a associate member. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? >> No. Welcome. You're in. >> Thank you. >> See you at the next meeting. >> I'll be at the next meeting.

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>> Also be on the open space recreation pretty soon. That's where I recognize the name from from your from your email. >> She's interested in both. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, >> um Russ isn't here, but he came this morning. Um and heard us.

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>> I heard it. >> Okay. Um and we told him, you know, the situation, everything, and you know, I let him know that it was delineated. we found there was significant disturbance within um the wetland buffer zones and so I can

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elaborate on that. Um and I told them that from this point on like you know depending on what you guys might want to do whether it's retroactively like I don't find or whatever you want to do um after this or let it just reveate. Um I told him that burden falls on him as a

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property owner. If he wants to go after the people that did it, he would have to do that himself. Um, and I told him that the permanent signage that we would like to require, um, also the financial burden falls on him. >> Okay. >> He agreed. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And said, "That makes sense."

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>> Wow. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, he's aware of that and he he was he was pretty easy to work with today. In a good mood. >> Okay. >> He came from pickle ball. >> Yeah, I heard that, too. >> Um, so that was good. And um we I trying

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to be in get in contact with the the params, the people who Russ said did it behind their house. Um >> they said they couldn't come today, but they wanted to meet with you guys a different day. So I'm trying to get in contact with them again to see when that

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could happen. >> Okay. >> Um but yeah, ultimately it's still Russ's, you know, responsibility. Sure. Depend no matter you know what they say. So right >> be good to get there. What? >> It would be good to hear from them. >> For sure. Yeah, that's right.

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>> View point. Yeah, for sure. View point. Yeah, >> I tried to have them both here tonight. Sorry. >> Yeah. Well, you did what you could. >> Yeah. Um, he did say he was going to be here. I don't know where he is, but um >> he said it before, too. >> Yeah. Okay. So, well, I mean, it came this morning, so that was good. But that's that's where we're at right now. >> Um, but yeah, Steve, did you want to

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elaborate? >> Have Steve go over what he found? Yeah, sure. >> Yeah, sure. Can you Can you guys hear me? >> Oh, great. Yeah. Yeah. I I'll give a shout out to Heather, too. I saw I heard her talk. I graduated HCC a long time ago in environmental science, and this is where I'm what I'm doing.

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>> I love it there. I don't want to leave. >> It was great. I mean, all the professors I had are probably gone now, but you know, it was a great program. So, >> yeah, it is. >> But yeah, so um I don't know if you guys have can share my map or anything because I'm just on my phone, but um yeah, so we went out I went out there

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with, you know, a couple of you guys. We looked out in back. Um, there definitely was obviously like you said, there's been a lot of clearing back there. Um, there's definitely been grading, too. I mean, so the the soil profile, if you go to the rear of lot 19 and lot 17, that open area back there, it's definitely

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not a natural soil profile. Um, you can tell the ground was like cut in one spot like where it's closer to the hill and then pushed farther out. You can see like the rubble pile and the big boulders and all the large stuff that's been moved. Um, so there was definitely some activity more than just clearing

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because there's that first, I don't know, 50 ft or so behind the house, 80 ft that has no vegetation at all. I mean, tree vegetation. It's got it's growing in with weeds and and forbes and stuff now, but it's definitely been heavily manipulated, flattened out, you know, all the rocks removed. If you look

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at the woods around the edges Oh, great. >> Hello. >> Oh, good. Sorry, my screen went blank, but you were I think just switching uh to the map. Um yeah, so the area behind you you could tell it's if you look at the natural areas in the wood in the tree line, you can see what it should probably look

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like with the slope and the large rocks and the soil types that are there to like an area of like just fill soil that you really can't see what's going on. And some of it's probably three or four feet deep. So you really can't evaluate if they filled in a wetland underneath it. You'd have to get an excavator out

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there and dig it all out. Um, but I did flag where I found the wetlands on the edges. It didn't look like, you know, from my assessment that they filled in the wetland. They got really close. Um, so there's some definitely material and tree cutting and stuff in the 25 ft no

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disturb zone. Um, and there's a lot, like I said, there's a lot of manipulated soil, so there's really no top soil. So getting stuff to reveate there is going to be a challenge. I mean, it'll grow in with weeds and shrubs and invasives for sure, but for a natural forest to kind of come in and

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and take parts of those areas over will take some time unless you want to kickstart it um with some plantings and that type of stuff. Um and then, you know, that's the area immediately around behind the homes. If you go farther back into the woods, there's also, I'd call

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it thinning, like there was trees taken down in the woods to kind of clear it out, but soils really weren't disturbed. There's still some mature trees. There's still canopy. That was more, you know, opening up the understory and taking out a few trees, which wasn't as egregious, but, you know, still in buffer zone. Um,

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you know, everything looks pretty recent. If you look at the aerials, you can kind of go back a couple years and and kind of you can see the activity taking place essentially on the on the mass live whatever mass GIS um aerial photos. You can see the tracks and the

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machine and the woods and all kinds of stuff. So, um, you can kind of do some forensics and figure out what had happened back there over period of probably like two years, um, to get to where it's at now. But that's that's kind of where it's at. That's what I found. I hung flags on everything. Um, I

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gave you guys a good sketch map where everything's located so you know. Um, you know, and and you know, I'm here to kind of help you guys. I don't I guess deliberate and come up with a with a plan. And I guess I'm just a resource if you need me. >> Yeah. What would it take to uh bring

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back the natural state? >> Kickstarter. >> You said all the top soil was removed, so we'd have to >> Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's hard to say what I don't think anything was brought in. I think they just manipulated stuff. They probably cut some area and pushed it over to probably make the area

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flatter and usable as a farm would be my guess. But, um, that's just me guessing. Yeah, it's all it's leveled out. And then if you go past where it's done being leveled, it's like like a pile of rocks and then it just drops off to the to the natural grade. To get it back to a natural soil state, you know, you'd be

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out there with an excavator for multiple weeks and moving stuff around and it still wouldn't be pretty and you know, you have a chance of causing more disturbance in the end. Um, you know, probably putting lom over what's there

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now and planting it is probably the easiest way to get it restored or even just potentially just planting stuff in there that can that's more drought tolerant or, you know, capable of surviving in like a poor nutrient soil

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condition um to kind of speed it along. So, you're not going to get all the you're going to get invasives out there anyway no matter what you do. um just because it's open and there's lots of invasives around the edges. So, they're going to come in. Um you know, the best thing you can do is

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try to push it along like, you know, get it to ecologically get to the point you want to a little bit quicker. So, hopefully it you don't have that transition of 15 years where it's really crappy species out there that are all invasive and vines and you can't move through it and

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it's just a thicket. So you remember when we went out there and we didn't find any stumps or anything, >> right? >> Yeah. No, they were they were removed. Yeah. And that was >> it's all underneath all that land that we were walking out clear.

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>> So what's the common uh what's the common uh forest that should be there? Was it like oak trees that were removed? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you look if you look around the edges, it's oak. It's birch, you know, black birch mostly. I'm sugar maple.

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>> Yeah. Was this like a slope up forest? >> And if you let it naturally the trees, you're not going to get any of that. >> No, >> not right away. >> It will eventually, but it's going to take, you know, a lot of different stages of succession to get there. >> Yeah. 15.

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>> Yeah. 15 25. And >> honestly, I can't see. So, I mean, this would be on him to right >> to do it. I can't see. >> The kid started it with with >> to pay for it, but I mean they had reimbursement from the the people who did this.

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>> It's on him. >> That's on him to do it. We don't know that. >> Oh, he doesn't know either. >> Russ you guys wanted to decide to have like the revitation like it would fall on him and he said that made sense. >> Yeah, he did.

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>> He said he would. >> What' you give him? I mean, seriously, >> sorry, I just >> um but he was he said he would, you know, >> go have his lawyer go after these people, but

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>> Okay. Um to probably pay for it. Um but he was he said, "Yeah, that makes sense. Signs and reveation would be his burden." >> Okay. Yeah. Because I I feel we need to help it along a little bit. Letting it just >> going to get overgrown. >> At this point, so much damage has been

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done. I some things that he said, >> right? And they will. >> Yeah. >> So, you want to reinforce a revitation plan? >> I'm for that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Do we need to do any cease and desist on any future damage? >> Well,

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>> I is he has done anything >> since >> a while. >> A while. Okay. All right. >> Because they know that we're looking at it. They stopped. >> Okay. But so I don't think that's necessary right now.

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>> Okay. >> Um >> make sure >> So how do we do that? Do we need to >> Well, we Well, we need to get estimate and a proposal, don't we? >> I would say vote on the action of

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forming a enforcing a reveation plan. Then we can >> Yeah. >> work out the specifics of that and then probably send it to you next time. >> Want to make a motion for that? I mean, if if the revitation plan that we request is denied,

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what's alternative levy fines for what's being done by us? >> Yeah. >> Um, yeah. I if he's if he's not going to pay for it or implement it, then you have power to find him $300 today. >> Okay. Well,

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>> I'd make a motion. >> He can't deny it. He can like not pay it and then do what you >> What's your motion? We can deny >> make a motion that we >> yeah we propose a reeducation plan uh to bring back the natural state of the

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property um and based upon you know the uh the reaction will go from there I guess second. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I.

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>> Any opposed? >> If you're if you're gonna do that, >> would Steve be the one to let you know what kind of So, if we're planning on doing like a reveation plan, like I don't know if you have experience like

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>> Oh, yeah. No, I I do these all the time. Yeah. I know. I I do a lot of restoration work. >> Okay. >> I mean, I I talked to Russ. I know him, too. So I I have a feeling he'll after this meeting and he hears about it, he'll probably call me. So I could what I'll probably is I'll probably scope

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something to him. So the town shouldn't be the one paying for it, right? So I'll I'll scope to him a restoration plan putting it together. I can give him like estimates of what it would take to actually implement it. You know, I don't build it. You know, he'd have to hire landscape people to do it. Um and then

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he can probably take all that stuff with his attorney and go to the people like, "Hey, I have to pay all this stuff now because of you. you know, you're paying it. You know, it'll then it'll probably be in court for a while. So, I'm assuming it won't happen very quickly.

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Um even if even if he wants it to. >> Okay. >> But I don't know. I mean, that that's just that's legal stuff. That's beyond my uh expertise. >> Sounds good for that. Yeah. >> I I I have a question. Um Russ came to

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meet with Joe and I was there also this morning and we were talking about um and Russ said that he would put up um signage um some type of signage. We'll have to look at it like conservation

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area, whatever. um along the border where I'm assuming because I haven't been out there that you must have flagged the area so he would know >> where to put the signs. >> Well, would the board would the signs go

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on the property line or the wetland line? >> Well, I'm assuming Steve >> he didn't do the property line. >> No, >> I'm not saying that saying the edge of the >> the wetland >> the resource area itself. Do we need >> I mean for his his best interest he

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should do both. He should have a no trespassing on his property line and then also have >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Do we need uh to put in new permanent markers? >> So that should be a part of this. >> Whatever permanent markers were there for the original construction are gone.

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They're underground. Yeah. >> So yeah, we need permanent markers. >> And they were um they were not made out of metal or anything like that anyway. It was back in the 90s when >> permanent markers went in. >> Not that they >> but that those would go on the property

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line. Correct. >> No, they were on the >> Okay. >> But I'm sure that that resource area line has changed a bit. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. >> Preced. So all we need to do is enforce

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permanent markers along those lines. >> Right. So, do we need to vote on that separately to do signage and markers? >> Well, this the signage would be the

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markers. Are you talking about the markers that we have >> whatever >> in our all of our orders of conditions and ones we have now? >> Yeah. >> I mean, that would be nice. But separate from the reforestation

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>> from the signage itself is >> separate from what we just voted on reveal. >> Okay. So I I will make a motion to also enforce that we that he uh reinstall

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permanent markers and signage. I'll second or we >> He said he would. >> All in favor? >> I Okay. >> When um Steve, how long do you think

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that your flagging will stay there before Russ gets >> That's a good question. Sometimes if nobody nobody messes with it, it could be there for a couple years. If somebody doesn't like the way it looks, they can take it down the next day. >> But, you know, under natural conditions,

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it'll, you know, it'll they'll still be there next year without any issue. >> Yeah. Those flags stay along. >> Well, R met with Joe and I, like I said today, and he agreed to put the markers in. So, not the not the ones we just the

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signage. He agreed to put signage in. >> Yeah. But Okay. Anything else for Steve? >> Thank you, Steve. >> No problem. Yeah. No, thanks, guys. Yeah, I like helping you guys out. >> Yeah, thank you.

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>> Yeah, take care everybody. Oh, sorry. >> For doing for doing all that for the commission. I appreciate that. >> No, not a problem. >> Thanks. and your as an aside the um the town uh you know the treasurer already

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has your check to go if you haven't received >> Oh, excellent. >> Thank you. >> Much appreciated. >> We also addressed the um shooting with >> Oh, >> him he he let them know that that's you

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can't do that there. >> Yeah. So, we've left pretty much all the party except we haven't specifically told the parents that you can't shoot there. >> Yeah. >> But when we went there, there was a lot of like >> what was it like bullet shovels or something? >> Yeah, I found a few. >> Yeah.

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>> Shotgun shells. >> Yeah. >> Other than that, I think that's all we had to talk about with that property. Um, our next item was night everybody. >> Okay. Good night. >> Thanks. >> Um, Ann Murphy, but she's not here. So,

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do you do you want to just >> Yeah. >> It's next to 260 B. >> Yeah. Joe's pulling up um the next project. Um the woman's name is Ann Murphy and she called

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um she has 19.89 acres next to 260 Bennett and um once Joe gets it up, you can see it's all under National Heritage. >> This one

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>> 19.89. >> Yeah. Yeah. Murphy. Yes. >> And um so she let me know that when she called I told her that and um she did let me know that she is filing um with Natural Heritage before she does

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anything. >> What does she want to do? >> She's trying to build. >> What's she doing? >> She's going to build >> a house. >> What is she going to ask? >> Looks like there's a house. >> I don't have any plans. I don't think she had any plans yet. like on where she

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wanted to put her house septic house on this thing. >> Is there? >> Yeah, there's a house on >> Sometimes I load up your folders and don't read what I put in there. >> I think it said proposed house, right? >> Yeah. >> Say proposed. All right. >> Yeah.

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House garage shed way in the back. >> Yep. >> Driveway along that side. >> Oh, here she is. Yeah. And you do have um my my mistake. You do have her preliminary plan in your folders. >> So it looks like it's out of the wet

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land but is still in natural heritage. >> Yeah, correct. >> Yep. That's what it looks like. >> That's correct. >> Yeah. >> The wetland is >> Yeah. Like Yeah. If you took a layer off, we could see where the wetland ends. >> Well, yeah. >> On this page here, it shows you the 200.

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>> Yeah. Right behind the car. My eyes are getting worse. >> It's like right behind the square of the the house lot behind the shed. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> That arc right there. >> So, she's clear of the the wetlands. It's just the national heritage that

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>> she needs to worry about and >> Yeah. Right. She's got a file with them. >> Yep. >> So, what she pl this house is there. proposed if >> this is the way Joe's got up there, but

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this is the wetlands here. >> So, >> okay. >> Where is this in relation to that zero Bennett road that we looked at years ago? >> Um, I don't I don't know.

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>> Is this abunded or anything? Do you know? Just curious. >> The owners bought most of that land. I don't know. Not. Not. Well, I know they bought some of it. Yeah. No, I know this isn't it, but I was just >> That was wet.

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>> Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Very wet up there. >> Well, yeah. There's a >> There was another property on that we looked at. >> They wanted Okay. Yeah. >> Oh, I see it now. I couldn't just

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>> so I think my question is um he's going to get back to us. >> Okay. >> That um because there is >> you know besides all under natural heritage there is areas of um land that

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should be protected. So although her house is going to be in the very front, would you s What would you suggest that she file with us? >> None of it's touching a NOI

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or RDI RDAs designed for obvious wetland. >> Uh what do you think? >> RDA. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. So, is is she looking to

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protect the rest of the land? >> You mean >> not touch it? >> You mean to market? >> No. To I don't know contact Opacum for instance to do a restriction on it. Is she looking to do anything like that

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with the rest of it? >> Sounds like she just wants to go post it. >> That's a Joe question. Not that I know of that she's talking about that. >> I just careless. That's all. >> Not that anybody could do anything

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anyway cuz she she puts her house there. >> Right. Right. >> It's all inaccessible to everybody. >> Yeah. Unless someone comes in for months and >> Yeah. But there's no streets there. >> They have to cross a river. >> Yeah. Whatever that is.

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>> Yeah. River. Oh, so yeah, I think she should do an RDA at least. Get it started. Am I confusing it too? Is NOI more for >> Yeah. N >> in the wetland >> Yeah.

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>> Okay. I confused too. Sorry. >> Yeah. I used to do the same thing. >> Yeah. It's been Yeah. >> You'd think that just by the definition of what it says, an NOI is a notice of intent or request for termination. You think the NOI would be first, but yeah.

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So what's the IDA? >> Request for determination of applicability. >> That's usually what people do first if they're trying to figure out if >> it's within a buffer or a wetland zone or if it's close to one but not

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specifically in it. NOI is if it's direct more directly infecting the wetland. >> So the IDA comes first. >> Yeah. >> Anyway, yeah. And there's no charge for an RDA. you have to pay for. >> It's like a almost like a permit.

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>> Oh, okay. >> What is the cost for that? >> Any other questions or comments about that? >> Oh, I think that covers it. >> Okay. Um,

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so one of So the last thing, um, I got the response, we got the response from, um, Jonathan 530 Glendale's attorney. Um, that was mailed to you all and I, the final draft is right there.

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>> This is this is the actual letter. That's a draft, but this is >> Yeah, we also have the draft. Um, essentially it's kind of just saying what Jonathan's been saying. Um, deny continue denying entry and you can read the reasons for it. Um,

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I think signing now is the would be the point um where we would pursue a warrant and go forward. So you up to the commission to discuss

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and then >> and you all should still have the packet of all the stuff. If not, you can pass this around. This has the information. >> I don't have it in your >> Yeah, it does. >> Yeah.

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>> I mean, yeah. I mean that's >> this is their opinion >> and we have our opinion. >> Yeah. So >> I did talk to Mark today and he said he agrees with he said DP's still not going to get involved but he agreed that um we

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don't know where agriculture is occurring on the property. >> So we don't know what the exemptions are. Um >> doesn't he have to prove that's a working farm? What proof is there? >> He is filed with the assessor's office.

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That piece of land is filed as agriculture, which means he does meet a certain threshold. But I it's my interpretation of the weather protection act that he has to prove to us the spec because the whole plot isn't exempt just because it's agriculture. >> Does he have cows? Doesn't he have cows?

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>> We don't know what he has. >> We don't know. We don't know what he has >> issue. We don't know what he has. We don't know where it is. >> Where did I get cows from him? >> Where did that come He might have >> he said that but we don't know we don't >> we don't know if it's like a personal

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thing or a working farm like where it's producing >> it has to it is producing a certain amount to be classified with the assessor's office. So we know there's some agriculture occurring >> we just don't know where because that doesn't exempt the whole property

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>> from alterations of wetlands. It just exempts specifically where the agriculture is happening >> which is obviously not the driveway. >> Yeah. >> But and also beware um there is you know a statute of

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limitations for the things we can pursue of um if it's been over two years for certain violations we can't pursue that. Um, so we could we could pursue the violations that um

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this is where it's a little tricky because if we discover the violations now then you know this is where I'm kind of bouncing the idea with you guys is um how does how does that statute of limitation fits in like for example I guess we can't pursue certain things that like Gina brought up um that

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happened like three or four years ago um that was made aware some of the um peer reviews, but we can pursue things that we see now or in the past two years or if we end up doing a site visit and seeing something, we can pursue that. Um the statute just falls on past things that are over two years.

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>> I mean, as far as I'm concerned, the only thing that I can see that we can pursue because the only thing we can see is that edge of the driveway >> if it's really been altered, >> right? We just don't know. which appears to be in the picture. But

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>> yeah, we just don't know when it's been altered, >> right? I mean, it looks like it's been widened enough for trucks. >> It could have been over two years. >> Yeah. I don't know when. >> Yeah. So, >> the picture the picture that we have originally was from 2019 and then the

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next one's 2025. So, >> there may have been Yeah. some in between that were >> there's no street pictures in between that, >> right? Um, so it just it's up to us to determine if we have sufficient

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probability to um convince a judge to let >> Yeah. >> I don't think we do. I don't either. >> And this is where I'm also a little confused because is I've under the interpretation that like the commission has the authority to inspect properties

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based off of >> potential violations we say. So, it's how much probability would you need to convince the judge? You know, >> you know, don't we have aerial photos showing changes in the property? >> Yeah, that's we look at each year and

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see >> that's it. >> Yeah, it's it's difficult because they're different seasons and >> Yes. Right. >> But all the aerial photos are there. So, >> and some of the before and after pictures are >> so far between.

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>> That's what I'm saying. mean we need uh what's the word for >> timeline >> concussion consecutive >> thank you I'm brain farting consecutive years so >> I don't know how to get that >> you know >> that it should be in there

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>> so I mean 2023 it looks fine in 2024 it doesn't so if we go back two years >> what in the 2024 picture it's an alteration >> more invasive it looks like and then it got aggressively. >> It looks like there's been

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>> a different season, too. But it still looks >> That's just one picture. >> Yeah. >> 2025. >> Yeah. His lawyer pointed out in the the email, the ones that look like it's more vegetated is further off in the season, like June, July, when they start getting

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vegetated. >> Right. Right. Right. >> There is um two pictures. the one dated April 14th, then one April 9th, which you could tell there's a drastic change, but it's also four years apart from each other. There's one from April 14, 2021,

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and then one from April 9th, 2025, but you can see a drastic change, but >> we don't know when it changed in between there. >> Question is, do we have enough Yeah. >> And that's why I don't particularly

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understand this because how how do people pursue this before aerial photograph to prove to someone that there's something? >> I just don't understand what probable cause you would need other than >> other than going on site, which you won't allow us to do without

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>> Yeah. >> So, um, would the judge see it as the commission has that right to go on the site? I don't I'm not totally privy on what you would need to convince. >> Probably have to talk to Rose. >> Yeah. What is Rose?

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>> She doesn't really I don't think she fully grasp status. >> Sure. >> Um she kind of knows as much as I know right now. So, she really hasn't given an opinion on this at all about >> I've talked to her quite a bit, but she she's just told me to gather all the

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information to present to you guys, and if you think there's sufficient reason, then we can pursue it. So, I guess, you know, >> how do how do we get authority for a site inspection? Where where I'm lost in this. >> It says in our bylaws we can, but

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apparently that doesn't count. >> We don't, right? So, where do we go now for the authority? that'll apply for a warrant, too. >> So, is that the next step >> if we decide to do that? >> That's what we're thinking about. >> We talked about that before. >> So, it's >> that's what we have to decide.

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>> Do we have enough >> evidence preliminary evidence to go there? Is a judge going to help us? >> I don't think we do. >> You don't think we >> I don't think we have enough evidence to warrant an investigation.

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Well, what's needed for a warrant, Eric? >> Well, to have to you don't have to prove guilt. You just need probable cause. So, you're more than likely to to have done it. >> So, if someone that's a good word on the >> denying access, I think is

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>> you need more like you would need more and said, "Listen, I've noticed different >> that's here. It won't count." All right. >> Like the photos would be probable cause, but the judge is going to look at it like like the per the lawyer pointed out. It's different seasons. A lot of them are from April then to like July,

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June where vegetation grow. >> Some of them are four four years apart >> and a lot of them are beyond the statue which is really can be hard. >> Yeah, >> it's possible. >> It's hard because it's seasonal as we're looking at >> and we don't know how much it's going to cost either. >> We're have to

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>> it's going to cost money to get the warrant and everything. >> Yeah. And >> if we had like photos from like the last two years around the same season, it would >> I don't know probably fast. >> So what's this last photo? 2025. I think

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when like now >> well would be last summer >> then the same. Can't you filter the aerial photography? >> Yeah, I don't but that's what it shows >> I think. >> Yeah. Yeah, you have it right. Go to go

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to the synced up thing. Go to like their page. I think I guess they changed their logo. It was >> says there's a a video of the property. >> Videos. These are all podcasts. Let me see if I can find it. Joe. I know. I know. I

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found it. >> See, I see it here. This is vegetation removal. >> I don't know if this is existing. Once you become once you get it considered public >> that's what that's what I'm assuming but in >> you said it was

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>> that's why I said what I said >> it was April 9th is the growing season right it would have been >> well then do I have right to see it because I'm >> I mean I think it's I think it's public

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>> I think that's I don't know I'm seeing What specifically are you seeing? >> I'm seeing between uh the area of 20. What is it? >> Oh, it just looks like >> it's not there. Vegetation is not there in April. >> Looks like the earth has been scoured

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between 24 and 25. >> I mean, it's this is this is >> I mean, this looks like it's been scorched earth here. >> This is growth. This is not growth. >> This is only this is April. Well, I mean, >> remember we can only pursue things that are in the wetland boundary. >> But where?

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>> Yeah. Okay. Where's the boundary? >> There should be another in the packet. Yeah. >> Right here, Joe. >> Sorry, I sp I had sync up sphere. It's here, but I can't. It's >> all about the April 9th photo.

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>> July 16th, 2024. And then April 9th, 2025. Looks like scorched earth happened to the north of this center part. I mean, this looks like dredge, not dredges for water. Whatever you do to scour the earth. >> There's a there's a stream that runs

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right. >> Okay. And then where's the wetland? >> The wetland is in conjunction. >> I can't tell. Okay. I can't really tell where the wetland buffer is ending here. >> If I remember right from the the solar project thing, there is a wetland

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besides the stream here. There's a wetland here. >> I could probably help if I >> could probably tell you where the is. >> And then there's over here. >> Can I see? >> Oh, yeah. Hold on. >> I know the land.

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>> This is a field right here. >> So, we walked on that. Where's the 200 then is before this. >> Okay. Tell me what you're looking at. >> What are you trying to see? >> In here. >> Yeah. In through this area there is a wetland. I'm not sure exactly how far it goes out, but this is on this side. Yes,

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there is. >> This is where my cursor is up there. Right back. >> See to the right, >> right? But it doesn't come out. >> It doesn't hit that construction area. >> No. >> No. The left side. That's where the barn is right here. >> Yeah.

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>> Wetland's right here. That's wetland. >> That's the string. The perial. >> So where is it? Where is >> Okay. So it looks like it's in there then. >> The stream is here. >> Oh, that's a stream. >> That's a stream. And there is wetlands over here. There is >> there is wetlands over there. >> There is. I'm not sure how.

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>> You see where the green and the purple is? That's all wetlands. >> This is where they solar. >> That's part of it. Yeah, they wanted to put it in. They wanted to put the solar in through here and up here. And they were kidding. >> They wanted bumper on this side and then on this side is rubber

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>> disturbance looks adjacent to what you just pointed out to me. >> Yeah, but this is wetland. >> This is disturbing. >> Head over to this. >> Yeah, >> I say because this is green >> down here somewhere. There was another

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July of 2024. So less than a year later, nothing is growing here. That's that's my perspective. I'm just concerned. I'm very concerned. >> Well, we have we have the valley, >> so everything

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happening in >> Well, I'm not technically water. >> No, I just made the sound. >> Oh, yeah. What's going on? >> I can see that. You would be >> Oh my goodness. was here.

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>> This is a >> right. >> Oh, yeah. Well, right, right, right. >> Yeah. >> This is on the river here. Because when they went to propose the solar, they did a whole restoration plan on this riverfront. They said, "Oh, we're going to repair all of this."

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>> Yeah, I know. That's what I was looking at. >> I only know involved in it, >> but it wasn't >> I don't know. Yeah, >> tree that was all >> I see that there's there's um justifiable what they call

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>> and if that certain amount of years then it's also not >> just always triggered a problem in my mind if you're not allowed

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I believe it's something that was being done. That's where I'm coming from. >> I understand. >> I don't know if the rest of the commission are working on it. >> But I just I have property in Maine and I've been through so much. >> It just sets a precedent though. Anytime

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you say something, you just hire an attorney and send us a letter and like, okay, we don't do anything. >> I know that's that's I don't like to give. That's my thought on that too. >> Maybe his storing property in my town or

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I live here in Ma. So I don't know. We'll see. What'd you come up with? >> No, we were just looking. >> I know, but you did something. >> My vote would be no. >> My vote would be no. I don't think you have a no. >> You don't think we have enough? >> I would vote no.

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>> Yeah, I I don't. But at the same time, it's not a bad president. >> Yeah. But that's just it's the first initial one. If it happens again, then we can put our foot down. We have to we have proof. You know, >> if one happens again, >> if somebody tries to do what they want

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on their own property that they shouldn't be doing >> and then they just hire an attorney and send a letter, it's all good. But but this we don't have enough >> concrete evidence to persuade >> I know I >> it's all speculation. >> May I just say one thing?

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>> Sure. >> Um I know there's also a little bit of concern about cost pursuing this. We have we do have legal on retainer so they're getting paid regardless. >> I'm not I'm not at all. >> Okay. I just I wanted to just point that out.

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>> Okay. I know. >> Yeah. It hasn't entered my mind. Oh, okay. >> I mean, the only real definitive thing we have is the driveway. >> I see that from the road. >> Yeah, you can see it from the road. >> That's as far >> without going on the property.

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>> Yeah. Right. >> I just >> Let's go to the road. >> Isn't it within the commission's right to know what agriculture is occurring? >> Well, exactly, Joe. then how else are you supposed to know anything? >> Because that that that's where I stand.

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Stand going up there and trying to figure out yes or no um by what we see or what we can't see. It's difficult. I get that. But in my perspective, and I'm not experiences as experienced as any of you, my

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perspective, if there is an ability to allow a legal site inspection, I'm concerned. Um, and that's where I've stood from the beginning. Um, you you don't say no if everything is legal beyond me.

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>> Sure. We're taking >> I don't really really know. >> No, you don't. But it certainly is a good indication that there's some reason to be concerned, but >> it could just be that kind of person. It doesn't >> You bother me. >> It doesn't allow you to walk 50 feet back from the road. >> So, I'm confused about the whole

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agricultural thing. What if he's I like >> doesn't have enough cows or or whatever. What does that >> You're not going to be making money off of your land or like that huge horse farm on um Scant

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>> and what if he doesn't what does he have agriculture >> with lumbering would that be agriculture? >> He has to be have agriculture for profit and it it's only in the specific places on the property where that agriculture

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is occurring. If he is has the sufficient amount of sheep that he's eating in a certain amount, but then he has a barn where he's riding horses, that area where he's riding horses isn't exact. There's no commercial profit there. It's only the specific areas on the property where the agriculture is occurring.

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>> I'm concerned about deforestation. I'm concerned about the trucks that there were. I don't see them now. I thought I had some we had some pictures. >> Yes, that was in the Google Earth aerial photos. >> I I was initially I was concerned about that. So if there's you say that

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deforestation is part of the agricultural assumption but in my mind that that guy got >> not deforestation a a a registered forest cutting plan is >> yeah what what a forest >> yeah he did he did a forest cutting plan and that was all

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>> but in the back >> yeah that was all legal and so have the attorney prove to us that it's a working farm then and we won't do anything >> make this photo proof or Don't do anything more. Right. >> I think that's fair. >> I I suppose. >> Yeah.

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>> Well, that's a good suggestion. >> I mean, if everything is under this agricultural thing, then okay, show us >> driveways agriculture though if it's white. >> That's true. >> And I did question the driveway. >> Yeah, I know. >> Yeah. Yeah. But there's there wouldn't

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be a way to determine what when the driveway was. >> Well, we know the driveway was somewhat was done after the property was purchased because you can tell from the aerial view. It was just a question of exactly what year. Is that where you were coming from with that, Joe? >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. This is 2019. 2025. We don't know.

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>> Yeah. The two year >> when you know when it was purchased though purchased in 21. >> Okay. >> I want to say Google Google Earth did show it, but I'm not positive. >> I mean, yeah. And it's it's hard because it's different seasons. So, we don't

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have one for this year. >> Didn't he already prove that it's agricultural by getting the the declaration from this the town? >> No, he you mean the forest plan? >> No, he's talking about

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>> No, the agriculture. >> Oh, the with the assessor's office. But >> yeah, that that tells us that that parcel of land is an agricultural >> meaning where the cows are that only that >> he makes the certain threshold of

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whatever. >> What is it that we want him to prove? >> He has to show us that he's not altering vegetation in areas where there's exact agriculture occurring. >> I thought this was just a tax

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assessment. They're not going out and saying this is a farm, this is not a farm. They're not doing that. So that's >> that's what Rose that's what Rose told me. >> We just we don't know where on the property the agriculture is occurring and if it's for profit. >> Nor do we have any

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>> and agriculture are different under the wetland protection act than they are at the assessor's office. shut up. >> So, and under the wetland protection act, he has to be making a steady profit.

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>> Why can't we get confirmation of that >> on produce that he um not that he's buying and selling, but that he's producing and selling? >> There's no way that don't don't businesses have to keep track of that sort of thing. I mean, I'm not a businessman, but it seems like that's

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common thing at business. >> I don't think I think it's a fair question. So do you want to just do you want me to continue the conversation and try to push for we need you to prove where the agriculture is occurring and if it you know if it's for profit

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but then I'm like then we're already another month back you know it's been what six months >> however long it takes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> For the question that we're asking for the question that we're asking right there. Well, I think a common thing

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right now is it's the process. So, if it's the process that bothers him and annoys him, >> so without pursuing a warrant yet. >> Yeah. >> Just doing what Greg just suggested. >> Just ask the attorney if we could get

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>> proof of Yeah. Proof of the working. >> Yeah. >> And exactly where it's occurring. >> Yeah. like coordinates or photographs or >> I think what they would respond is well prove to us where the

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um you know uh violations are occurring you know like they're not I feel like they're not that's what they >> they're not going to tell >> they don't know where the violations >> we're going to determine that once they tell us >> because I mean they can't >> they can't working a not

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>> then that whole of anything. >> So isn't that the basis for what's going on? It's a working farm. Zach approach. >> Yeah. So let's start with that. >> The same thing kind of happened with Godette too. The person who owned the property years and years ago when he built the horse track, it was an argument of whether it was a working

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farm or not because he built a track in an area that had not been approved by the town and they went back and forth and back and forth on it and they were able to prove it was a working farm because he was training the horses to be trotters. So even though he put the track in the wetland, it was very it was

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a very convoluted thing that I read through the archives. Remember Bonnie I my mom and I went and we read through everything. But we're kind of in the same predicament now. >> Yeah. >> But the laws have changed since then. >> That's very true. >> So you feel it's within your right to

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request proof of >> I mean there's got to >> Yeah. I mean it's got to Isn't that public information anyway? What business is producing or not? I don't know. Yeah, it's a start,

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I guess. >> So, he got from the assessor's office um a statement of of or a statement that it was a working what did he have to get from the assessor's office? So the assess with the assessors that big piece

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of land is classified as I forget what it is but it's like A2 which is agriculture and not R six which is residential. >> Okay. >> So that means >> that means there is >> it's just paying a different tax for it. That's all it is. The way Rose worded to

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me was that it shows that there's some agriculture occurring on the property for it to be classified as that because you do have to prove what the assessors that you are have >> as opposed to just saying it is and and and applying for it. They have to prove.

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>> Okay. So, the proof that the assessors have, let's look at it. We have that. >> I'm pretty sure that's not we can't because I think that's confidential, but also that doesn't really give us anything. So that's why I think >> you can look up the

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>> you can look up anyone's assessment. >> But maybe like the proof that it's agriculture. >> Again, we don't know where. So I feel like it's within our right to know where. >> Yeah. >> But I could see them arguing, well, you need probable cause to ask that. But there's nothing else I can do other than

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ask that. So I'll just I'll do that. I'll write a letter. Can't do that. If >> I disagree, I don't think we should do that. You don't think we should do that? >> You think we should? >> I don't think we have probable cause to do anything >> to ask questions. >> Yes.

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>> I disagree personally. >> Do we want to vote on that? >> Sure. >> Okay. >> So, all in favor of me inquiring about agriculture and where it's occurring on 530 Glendale. >> I I

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and then two ns. No. Was there any name? >> Okay. >> Okay. So, that was that was it. Um, nothing else the agenda. Um, but just as

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a quick update, um, I'm working on some things for the summer. I'm looking to get like boy scouts and like Machog like clubs like club or something to help with like um clean up on like Machog land trust trails and trails in town and stuff like that. So that's in the works

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as well, just so you're aware. Great. >> Um, yeah. Thank you. >> Sounds great. Yeah. Make a motion to close the uh meeting at second 7:16. >> All in favor?