##VIDEO ID:dY1jEqy7K6Q## adequate notice of the December 12th 2024 meeting of the township committee has been provided in accordance with the open public meetings act by posting written notice and agenda of the meeting under the Bolton board and Municipal Building 1 R 10 Township of Hanover and by hand delivering mailing or faxing such notice to the following newspapers Mars County daily record The Star Ledger the Hanover eagle and by filing the same with the Township Clerk roll call commit kill here commit farasa commitment francioli here Comm malalo here mayor Gallagher here five members in attendance please rise and join us for the Pledge of Allegiance and please remain standing as Deputy Mayor Mahal will lead us in a prayer I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under godible with liy and justice for all Almighty God please watch over and guide this governing body with an abundance of wisdom and understanding to help make the best decisions for our residents please bless our First Responders and Township volunteers who help keep us all safe also bless our Township employees and residents lastly please let us pray for the men and women of the US Armed Forces who stand vigil over us always amen amen good evening the first item on the agenda is the approval of the township committee meeting minutes of November 14th 2024 November 25th 2024 and the board of adjustment appeal hearing meeting of November 25th 2024 may I please have a motion to approve so move second all in favor next on the agenda we have five ordinances for public hearing and possible adoption we will conduct a public hearing for ordinance 27 2024 separately ordinance number 27 2024 proof of publication that ordinance 27 and the notice of introduction appeared in full in the October 31st issue of the Daily Record in accordance with law ordinance number 27 2024 was referred to the planning board for their recommendation in a letter dated November 26 2024 from planning board chair Pete dgis it is stated that the Redevelopment plan referenced in ordinance 27 2024 is not consistent with the Township's master plan the master plan recommends development primary for Office Buildings and Research Laboratories sorry whereas the Redevelopment plan proposed by ordinance 27 2024 is for a mixed use development to multif family housing re retail office and hotel uses due to the different uses in the two plans the development standards in the plans are also different despite the inconsistency between the master plan and the Redevelopment plan the planning board letter recognizes the state sit's designation as a Redevelopment area and that the Redevelopment plan helps to address the Township's obligation to provide for a affordable housing and agrees with the proposed adoption do you want to say anything you want to open to the public um at this time may I have a motion to convene the public hearing second okay we broke we took this one and separated because of the fact that we've been working on this for 11 months we're still not in a very good place but we would like to hear from the public and each member of the public would we'd like to hear from you you have 4 minutes to discuss with us or ask us about this make your comments and concerns very very clear we are going to table this until December 30th which is the last day that we can possibly do it in 2024 we're struggling with this we know all our options we understand what is hanging over our heads with the round four of fair share housing we've had many residents from the neighborhood of Heritage Woods come in and speak with us about their concerns so this is still a work in progress prior to tonight's public meeting we decided to table but we want to hear from anybody that's in this room that is our job so if anybody would like to address the governing body please go to the podium state your name address and take four minutes thank you oh I can't hear it [Music] hello as a resident I'd like to express the following concerns subject to 85 withot in grow these concerns are high density overdevelopment lack of control it feels that we have on that overdevelopment and an increasing traffic problem that is affecting the quality of life of residents of this town looking back it's frustrating to see how this project evolved the 2021 master plan did not designate this area for residential or hotel use yet proactive measures seem to have been taken to make those changes the shift be [Music] line when housing that I support this thank you CH okay um did you hear much better do I need to repeat anything no we heard okay the two actions feel inconsistent and as a resident it's hard to reconcile my understanding is that designating an area in um designating an area in need of Redevelopment gives the town greater control over the project scope and design and allows the council to influence what's built set requirements for public infrastructure and negotiate Community benefits yet after reviewing the de re development plan I'm left wondering if that influence has been fully exerted in fact it reads as if this plan was written for the land owner or the specific developer here are just a few concerns the list of prohibited uses in the Redevelopment plan are minimal the setbacks on the property line 15 20 ft seem very small given the scale of the project what feels like an excessive amount of additional residential units and an approval for another hotel in town I count five over ready more importantly what's missing from the plan are tangible benefits for us the taxpaying residents like more Community Open Spaces Parks Trails playgrounds where our children can play a dog park or other amenities that enhance our Town's charm and livability instead the plan prioritizes amenities for the development's residents and their guests how does this benefit me as a resident the concern extends to taxes since moving here four years ago my taxes have increased 11% large housing complexes with disproportionate service demands and school impacts can increase that tax burden without clear benefits to the broader Community it's hard not to feel that this project prioritizes the landowner and the developer's interests over our residents well-being finally I come to traffic it's already a problem and this development will only make it worse tractor trailers and whipy Road commuters cutting through town from 24 to 27 and Route 80 drivers speeding down Independence have made daily travel more difficult and dangerous adding a hotel and 400 apartments will only compound these issues what is being done to address this in closing I deeply appreciate the time and the effort that each of you dedicates to our town I know that this job that you have is not easy and I recognize the weight of your responsibility but with that responsibility comes the duty to act at stewards of public trust lately there's a perception that many conversations are happening behind closed doors this isn't about blame um it's about reflection trans parency is more than a procedural step it's a promise to the people that you serve when decisions are made in the open trust grows we the community want to believe in our leaders and see our values reflected in how business is done transparency is how we maintain that belief it keeps cynicism at Bay and ensures that we remain active participants not passive observers or keyboard warriors on Facebook I urge you to honor that trust show us through action through that our government works for the people with the people and in the view of the people thank you you just state your name and address again I missed it in the sure it's Denise shanang 8 conquered Road thank you thank you very much anyone else Bob Bruno 53 Countrywood try not to be redundant here um Denise made some good points um I've got maybe a 10 or a dozen to make myself um but just a little bit about my background excuse me my um father's family grew up in East Orange they worked in New York um spent a lot of time in Essex County um when they were deciding to get married and have kids and where to live my uncle one of my uncles came up here in 1953 my father moved here in 1958 so my family has been in Hanover Township for 71 years it was a conscious choice to come up here um they wanted to get away from overcrowding and high density housing they like the Suburban lifestyle with a yard a swing set everybody got to know their neighbors I grew up my uh with four siblings three of us still live in town I raised my three kids here um it was just a choice a lifestyle Choice um you know if we wanted high density housing if we wanted to live in an urban environment we could go to Hoboken or Jersey City or live in nework or Montclair um there's a lot of other places you could go in New Jersey so um you know part of my commentary here is why is high density housing being forced down our throats the population in New Jersey from 2021 to 2022 went down by 9,000 people yet the Division of Community Affairs said there's a present need for somewhere between 65,000 95,000 housing units how is that possible I mean all they're doing is making up numbers to build more high density housing and I just don't get it um you know we that chose a Suburban lifestyle are now being being told if you want to live that kind of Lifestyle you can go to Warren County New Jersey or maybe go out to Pennsylvania um I for one would rather not um but let's look at the fair share housing which is a complete misnomer um if anybody's ever looked at their website the first thing it says one of the first things it says about their mission is we litigate right so they have a bunch of attorneys that just want to sue all they want to do is file lawsuits to make everyone build this high density housing all over the state it it's too much um and in my opinion enough is enough the traffic on whiy road Ridgedale Avenue Jefferson Road among others Route 10 it's insane you can't go out at rush hour try to get a doctor's appointment um go to the emergency room marown Memorial Hospital's completely overwhelmed they're talking about a 10-story building there I personally don't care whether we're talking about lowincome medium income High income or no income it doesn't matter the high density housing is too much we don't have the infrastructure in place there's no mass transit you can't walk around town it's not feasible you have to drive now just to get to the point about Bayer um great business great rable to have in town um unfortunately for them uh they bought Monsanto they inherited the Roundup lawsuit and that entire mess their exposure something like12 billion right so what are they doing they're selling off assets they're laying off employees they're looking to rent some of their existing space unfortunately their I mean that's unfortunate but their problems don't have to be our problems we don't have to change the zoning every time a land owner comes to us and makes a request it's not our responsibility to find a tenant who complies with the current zoning either let them go to a developer and find someone that complies the guys who did the zoning originally in the 40s and 50s were smart guys they made a conscious decision to come out here you know many of them Sal anacon or Alban Pete scarla Mike SAA um a few more points first of all Eden Lane which we've seen about 80 units being built there's another 1,500 that have been approved right so that's going to be built that's already done we can't oppose that anymore and on Park Avenue across from Columbia a turnpike there's another 275 units that have been approved they're going to get built too so we have 1,700 units that are already going to be built in an area that can't support the traffic and now there's another 400 on the drawing board I I I don't get it it's just too much traffic studies are done that say that the roads can support it the traffic study whoever employs the traffic study rather is going to get an answer that they want right you pay for a traffic study you're going to get an answer that says it'll do whatever you want it to do if we talk about Redevelopment the property in Bayer is not developed so how could it need to be redeveloped it's not developed at all if we want to talk about an area that needs Redevelopment how about the welfare hotel on Route 10 I think if a developer came in and said I want to redevelop that particular location I think we'd have we'd be a lot more sympathetic so in my opinion we're already way beyond the limit we can't support we can't assimilate any more high density housing so enough is enough and I hope the committee will vote no on 27-24 thanks Bob Fred before we move on to another comment or question I just wanted to ask you to take the floor for a minute this current project there's a recommendation of 400 units if this comes back as an intervenor which means the state does our zoning and we're involved in a lawsuit right now to sue the state the number IS350 our plan with this project for the last 11 months was before they come back as an intervenor to do the best we can to try to create what could be the best for Hanover Township we're not there yet does anybody on this governing body want 1350 units and by the way that's my area so when people talk to me about whiy Road that's I'm stuck in that traffic all the time and I made that very very clear so Fred please just take a minute and explain it the affordable housing mandates and I agree with Bob we call it the not fair share because it's not fair share it's more fair to the developers to force our hand to develop land in a way that we don't want it to be developed period but quickly explain our Authority and the overreach of the state and what we're doing to combat the state thanks Fred the mayor the the the state has basically imposed and as you said the township was one of the initial municipalities that are challenging the the actual law and the regulations but high density development is uh through this affordable housing process anywhere from 12 to 20 units an acre so that's what you the governing body as you said is trying to avoid and you know from that standpoint first of all developer has the right this is an office bu this site's already been approved for an office building it has to be has a right to be developed for something but at the same time if you and the governing body may just make a decision to do otherwise you always have to keep in mind that at this project right now is 6 to 7 units an acre what we see throughout the state and the county law that no one in this room is responsible for is they're coming in at 15 to 20 units an acre so that number is right there's always that possibility no matter what you do that you could be faced with that type of um intervention and and look there's that that's a battle maybe for another day and it may happen but the reality is yes uh for a site like this you know know um I think Mr Bruno talked about River Park and how many units are there this is the same size as River Park so and so we're talking about a different type of product here this is 320 for sale town homes not rental units as we've seen throughout the county and the state and not uh units that are high density at 1200 it's different and then there's the affordable component that's required by law anywhere uh so and that is just uh a separate number that's the 80 units so you're looking at that versus when you say high density so there's a there's a big difference and so you look at it sort of in a vacuum and say what could happen at this property this is a proposal that came in it doesn't come in in the sense that somebody dictates it to you the governing body can make a decision and say no but that doesn't mean that the property won't be developed um and then just mayor the one thing the Park Avenue project that's um Extended Stay type of Hotel units that's that's not residential tax yes yeah but that they're not permanent occupancy or or uh children or anything of that nature so thank you fr the last comment I'll make about that before we move on is although we call ourselves public servants we have to go through a political process to get here the easiest thing for us to do politically would say no and have me bang this gavl then I can go into the field and I'll say Gallagher you really fought for us you stood up for us we don't want any more highdensity housing then when the state comes in and says we're going to put 1350 units there and you have nothing to say about it I could say hey I voted now I didn't want it well how smart was that to try to be heavy-handed get a Ed by my friends and then have the state override 11 months of our work do we want to do this no do we know it's going to be developed yes do we want to try to make it the best we can for Hanover Township yes do we think we're going to get there frankly I'd say right now 50/50 but if the clock runs out we're playing a whole different game in 2025 but we're prepared to do it I said in public minutes at a mayor's form regarding fair share housing which is not fair we're getting older smarter and crankier we could fight until we can't fight anymore and as far as transparency we are available all the time to everybody if anybody has a strategy that somebody may have not thought of yet we want to hear it but we are involved in a lawsuit there's a big decision on how far that lawsuit's going to go on December 20th we are one of the first people that were municipalities involved in that lawsuit but I even said if the lawsuit goes down cuz the judges aren't really our friend in the suburbs right now do we have plan b c and d so we're going to fight but simply saying no I don't want it we don't have that option and I hope we can get something done by Jan uh by December 30th but if we don't you have our word that we will fight like there's no tomorrow to try to get something that we could that's very very good for H of Township that's my comment and Bob thank you for your passion uh we I I hear you and we we hear you and feel you and you know what the only other thing I'm going to say is that elections have consequences and I probably shouldn't say it but we have too many people that don't listen to us that want to put the Hales against the Have Nots or want to paint the Hales against the have knots and we should work together more rather than poking pointing our fingers at one another and telling us how we should Zone our own towns and what we should build and why we moved to the suburbs from Bon New Jersey half my family thought we were crazy I never wanted to leave and I'm not leaving but we want to try to preserve What attracted us here in the first place that's my two cents and I think that I had to respond and thank you Bob anybody else good evening my name is Lindsay hollerin and I live at the social welfare Hotel known as the red carpet in um I feel your place within the community oh Excuse Me Miss I apologize but public comment has to be about this ordinance about this ordinance about affordable housing no about the ordinance specifically um 27 2024 but you'll have plenty of time to address the governing body unless you want to address the affordable housing component and how you can oh I'm too poor for affordable housing that's the issue with affordable housing is that I'm too poor for affordable housing okay so do you have a comment about this ordinance and if not you know I'll give you plenty of time no I'll wait till the end I'm sorry I was very confused you gave a wonderful speech thank [Music] you hi Darren oconor 10 Brandy Wine Court in uh whiy uh I'll be brief Denise and uh Bob really killed it there uh I would just say just say no um I know that's simple and it's hard and uh Ace I I want to thank all you guys I know you give a lot of time the people that are paid for the town and also all the volunteers and the counsil and everything you guys give us so much time I'm more aware of that the last few years than I ever have been so I do appreciate that um it's just too much the traffic is unbelievable uh that's my backyard I'm not a not in my backyard a lot of trees I wish the setback was further um if you built some units in a hotel or something but 400 units it's just you can't drive down whiy Road there's so many units coming on board everywhere whether it's Pine Plaza the 500 units up Route 10 uh which is like a city uh off pariy road down in pariy backed up against 287 and aren't online yet Nabisco and East Hanover you know a whole city going up there it's on and on it's just just say no um we're suing with 26 other towns at this point and that number seems to be growing the state uh so you're getting more power so I can't think of anything worse than have a lawsuit to say we're spending money to fight the state if I'm the defense attorney for the state I'm going to say but you guys approved more housing so it just doesn't make sense to me um you got to draw a line in the sand and I know there's a gamble with that and there's consequences but it's time to put a stake in the ground and just say no um like I said it's just too much um the lawsuit uh the map I looked at I'm not asking you to answer all this cuz I'm late to the game but it looks like it's on Wetlands 1.06 at least the map that's on the town website and everything so I'm not sure I fully understand but I I you know I guess the state's driving this that we're we're building this on Wetlands um I'm a little bit um biased by all the rains and everything hav't opened an office in downtown whiy and been flooded a bunch of times that uh where's all the water going um uh I think uh that's really wanted to said say it's just uh it's it's just too much uh and enough and so um that's how I feel thank you thank you Darren anyone else LM charella whipy Road um I served on a Township committee for 10 years uh 15 years ago and when Lucent technology was faltering and the site was vacant several times developers came and wanted to change the Zone from commercial which is a positive positive rable to residential which is a negative rateable and at that time the township committee wouldn't budge we kept it we just kept the master plan and kept it zon commercial and then what happened everybody at that time the economy was really bad but then beay came and metti came and so so what if the the site remains undeveloped for a while longer eventually it will prove to be a positive rable but if you start putting in residential and you know it it requires a lot of Municipal services and if they're School AG kids at the time when I served on the committee it was $115,000 per student it's probably a lot higher now so it's not a positive rable to change a commercial zon to residential and if this is all about affordable housing there's a lawsuit going on and why rush into changing it and if this is about worrying about the future about maybe having um a lawsuit that's a what if that doesn't mean it's going to happen so I hope you all keep an open mind and listening to U it almost sounds like you know you're worried about having um worried about having a lawsuit but I say stand our ground Len I'm not worried about a lawsuit we joined a lawsuit I know but and I've I've always said if I go down I'm going down swinging I said that since I was 5 years old but we're also trying to be realistic and smart and New Jersey has gotten so off the rails I'm aware of it and even some of the big wigs that are against us say there's a very big difference between good policy and good politics but you can't be guided by worrying about if we don't vote to put residential on this site that we could get more that's that's a what if it's not reality reality is if it does happen and if it does that's a terrible thing but the reality is we're trying very very hard to make it as good as we can in the controls that we currently have which we may lose and if we lose we are going to fight until The Bitter End but I don't want to interrupt your comment and I respect well I just I just feel like you know it's the it's the it's the tail wagging the dog we're we're we're worried about all these mandates and who knows where it's going to go but I just don't think it's a good idea for traffic and for ratables to change a commercial Zone into a residential Zone and I just think like our president said fight fight fight and that's what I think you should do I don't think you should cow toow to the state of New Jersey I just think we should fight it thank you thank you ly uh my name is Christopher Mich 32 Sunset Drive uh I volunteer on the economic development committee for town so one of my concerns is similar to what Len just said uh if we have a zone that is for business that's supposed to bring in positive revenues to the township if we change that to mixed use or residential we lose that ability to bring in that positive revenue for the for the township uh I understand this particular piece of land is uh possibly being going to become mixed use which is a better balance than purely residential um but if it is changed it it stays that way forever once you put homes there you're not going to bulldoze those for a business uh but it's difficult because I understand that some different approaches were looked at for this property uh in terms of something uh with colleges and the environment since it's right near uh the wetlands I understand something was looked at for possibly doing film development and these haven't materialized into anything but um there are a lot of unknowns uh we have a new presidential Administration coming in who may be able to change the economy in a way where the demand for uh research Labs Office Buildings increases in the future but if we rezone this we can't put that there um we have a governor race in a year where the incumbent can't rerun we don't know how that's going to go we don't know if a different Governor might change all of the mandates uh but I do know that New Jersey's Governor has more Powers than most governors in the country so anything's possible but it's another unknown where if we take a decision today perhaps in a year it might not have needed to be been made at all um the other thing is as people mentioned we have a lawsuit currently underway we don't know the result of that and what that might do to the mandates uh but that's that's all I got so it's it's an unknown situation and because that it's hard to make a decision so uh but I trust you you guys to handle that thank you thank you Chris anyone [Music] else hi there Alyssa Shane leas 37 Valley Forge Drive I just wanted to ask a clarifying question about the push back to December 30th does that mean there will be a meeting late in the month what we discussed doing and Fred please correct me we're going to not conclude the public session we're going to reopen it on the 30th is that correct Fred right so no with the public will be invited and of course between now and then Although our families will all be aggravated if we're talking about Municipal business throughout the holiday we're all available all the time to discuss this and I've got together with you and a group twice yes we've been really killing ourselves on this one and um we're going to we're going to do the best we can and wherever it goes we're going to take responsibility for it be able to explain it and be able to explain every detail and none of us are happy about being in this situation and again it would be much easier for me to just bang this and say no Over My Dead Body but then we don't know what's going to happen but we are in a lawsuit if we didn't get in that lawsuit shame on us there's a lot of people are talking big that don't know anything about the lawsuit we were the first Town's in it but yeah there will be another public hearing okay thank you or continuation this public hearing got it thank you thanks anyone [Music] else C you're looking at us you want to say [Music] something okay I just want to know where all the people are coming from that cond you know Mike Mahalo a couple years ago said and Mike's one of the smartest businessmen I know Mike said you know I think this supply and demand isn't really going to work out because the demand is going to become less and less but apparently there's an incredible demand but a demand for the low and moderate so my biggest concern is if it was low and moderate and helping anybody I think anybody in this room would give anybody the shirt off their back but it's the 80% of the development that we wouldn't want in the first place that is that is destroying our towns it's the high density it's not the affordable or the fair share and look at all that we do to help so many people but these projects if it wasn't for this Anvil hanging over our head even round three round two and the initial round everybody would just say no we don't want it so it's a struggle but I I know your expertise and Carol you know we're always available if you have any recommendations okay yes good evening Terry beard 180 PRP Road in the whippy section of Hann Township um I agree wholeheartedly with Bob Bruno in what he said and a lot of the points that he brought up um being a longtime family uh my family's been here a little bit longer uh since the early 1800s and um Hanover Township has changed and there were a lot of people who came here that's why B Meadow Parkway and all those houses were built and you know this was all Farmland at one time and it's a Suburban neighborhood we are a bedroom community and we need ratables we need ratables to help keep our taxes down I mean it's it's an economic uh decision that we have to make sometimes but to put 400 housing units there at the behest of a developer who has I'll say it decimated this town everything looks the same I mean I'm entitled to my opinion and I'm not calling anybody a name um but everything looks the same it it it changes the whole character of a town so it takes away from our ratables changes the character of our town overburdens our school system our Police Department our DPW I I mean it's impossible it's just absolutely impossible and to try to keep up I mean mik can't keep up with the recreation department to try to keep the town nice and have our our kids have nice fields and stuff I better not ever hear a word pilot ever again um but I just feel as though this development does not address the needs of the Town it address the needs of a developer to make money that's all it does does not address the needs of the Town doesn't address any retail that we need it doesn't have that Center where we supposed to have a Handover Town Center we still not getting that you you're getting all these little silos not little he's huge silos everywhere and we're all in the middle of the cow barn and the cow barn hasn't been cleaned so everybody better wear their boots which means you got to put your thinking caps on think of Crea ative ways to take care of our affordable housing mandates potentially down the line depending on what comes out with the you know the lawsuit come up with creative ways because this unit section does not address the true homelessness that is in our area people want to hide the the homeless in our area and we have a social welfare hotel that property is in definite need of Redevelopment with condemnation okay I mean there are creative things we could go to fair share housing and and come up with an idea like of getting more credits for having uh a unit so instead of uh like a a developmentally disabled unit counting is two how about people who are at the very very very low below the very lows those units counting as threes developer might be more willing to build something like that right cuz they going to make money it just we need to come up with more creative ways and it's always better to kick that can down the road thank you Terry anyone else seeing none hearing none motion close no we're going to a motion we're going to make a motion to continue the public hearing till December 30th 30 so can I have a motion please John put it forth I'll second it okay all in favor I I okay so that's table to December [Music] 30th mayor may I just ask for the record what time the meeting will be on December 30th is it 5:30 said Joe 5:30 Joe's not here oh Joe's not here Chris 5:30 is good with me 5:30 guyss 5:30 December 30th at 5:30 okay moving on with the agenda next we will conduct the public hearing for ordinance 28 2024 29 2024 30 2024 and 31 2024 proof of publication that ordinances 28 29 30 and their notices and introduction appeared in full in the October 31st issue of the Daily Record and ordinance 31 and its notice of introduction appeared in a summary in the November 20th and December 1st issue of the Daily Record in accordance with the law I'd like to State for the record that ordinance 31 2024 is a land use and development ordinance and was referred to the planning board for review and recommendation in a letter dated November 26 2024 planning board chair Pete Denis stated that the provision of the ordinances the ordinance are technical in nature and that the master plan does not contain specific recommendations concerning the subject of the ordinance the letter also stated that ordinance 31 2024 is substantially consistent with the master plan and the board recommends adoption of the ordinance at this time may I make a motion to convene the public hearing on ordinance numbers 28 29 30 and 31 so move second all in favor is there anyone in Chambers wishing to be heard concerning any of these ordinances if so please state your name and address for the record and which ordinance you would like to address hearing none may I have a motion to close the public hearing Mo have a second second may I have a motion to adopt ordinance 28 2024 29 2024 30 2024 and 31 2024 so movement i' like to recognize the work of the planning board and the Planner on those ordinances thank you John on roll call commit kahill yes commitment farasa yes commit francoli hi Kitman Mahalo yes mayor Gallagher I so adopted next order of business is the approval of resolutions 21-2024 through 213 2024 as a consent agenda does any member of the township committee have any questions about any of these items or would like to make any comments about any of these items I'd like to make a quick comment about uh 212 sure just if anybody's read and followed we've been working very hard to get our Splash Pad at B Meadow pool up and going and this this is the res this is the resolution that Awards the bid uh Awards the contract to the to the to the Builder um it's been it's been a lot of work there's been a lot of going back and forth I want to thank Eddie cashen who's uh the manager of the pool he did a fantastic job I want to thank the engineering department also uh it's it's been a lot of work we ran into a lot of bumps in the road bid came in a lot higher than we wanted we basically had to redo the electrical system for the pool uh which came about when we started this that bumped it up um but again I just want to say it's it's a going to be a really wonderful amenity um it's not just for children it's also ADA Compliant uh so pretty much anyone will be able to use it uh again it's not just a baby pool it's a splash pad for for everyone to enjoy and again I want to thank the support of the committee uh for helping get this it's I mean I bugged the crap out of you guys trying to get this thing going uh and we and John John and I work very hard to to come up with the funding for this too uh but again thank you all for your efforts and and I hope you vote for it so is that a motion I'll make the motion I'll second it thank you all in favor I resolutions are so approved now we have to pay our bills in the amount of 6,257 9292 John can we pay the bills motion for the CFO to pay those Bills second all in favor I so we're going to pay the bills mayor Gallagher and the members of the committee that clears the agenda and I thank you very much thank you Christ great job I'd like to open get a motion open to the public so mov all in favor I would anyone from the public like to address the governing body about anything and if you would please state your name your address and you have four minutes thank you all right hello Hi how are you good how are you everybody had good Thanksgiving great then my name is Lindsay hollerin I live at the Red Carpet in the social welfare Hotel um since we last spoke I've been to an hsac meeting and because I went to an hsac meeting which is like all the heads of Morris County that decide where all the money is spent um they sent dcpm P to my door um with horrendous allegations and now that you know that's been closed but it seems the more I ask questions and I try to get my family out of this situation and I try [Music] to I can't think of a proper word to use but just you know there's programs here there's things here to help it to make it so families don't live here for years on end at this social welfare hotel and the door just keeps getting Slim my face I was told by Family Promise that legally they don't have to help my family because we're larger than five larger than five that's sad it's very sad yes did I have it on recording too um and all I keep hearing after my fair hearing today with judge Courtney too um because they raised my co-pay from $236 to $510 after I started asking questions is it's legislative legislative legislative I have no issues going legislatively to try and change the laws to make it easier for small towns like Handover so this way the residents don't have to go through what I've gone through but I need the help getting pointed in the right direction to get to the right people to change these legislative laws where we're not living here for two three 4 years it's zero it is pointless to even the state the state keeps passing the hotel why because there's nowhere else to place us it's okay that there's mold I have pictures of mold that is all over my room thick black mold in the wall but the state keeps passing it on you guys come in and find them and it does nothing because the state's like no let's just do it Pennies on the dollar and and it's not and it's not it's nonproductive so I'm coming to my leaders asking you guys for help to at least point me to the right person in the right direction to help change these rules for the community um also my son Eddie turns 18 on Sunday they're removing him from my case um because he was he was a whiy Park High School student he was a straight A student at whippy Park high school last year they transferred us to Essex County they moved us into a home that wasn't safe after a failed transfer and Essex County said that they didn't want us there and the landlord refused to fill the paperwork out for him to attend high school so sadly enough he dropped out but he got his high school diploma for NewBridge so now that he's turning 18 even though he should be in high school he isn't we're going through a lot of red tape and I don't trust my leaders as high up as ta I've met them and they've smiled to my face and they've snaked my back and I'm asking for help to get to the right people I have no problem putting the leg work in making the calls and going the mile I just need help to start and that's what I'm here for also um real quick I commend you mayor Gallagher for not not selling the heart of your town out not wanting to to a developer and overdeveloping your town like my mayor did in my town May dhy because all this extra traffic that's here is because of the overdevelopment too in moris town and you don't want that you really don't as much as I don't want to be homeless you know I don't want to see a bunch of overdevelopment in a suburb town that is beautiful and I commend you guys for not wanting to do that thank you I appreciate you concluding with us guys because we stand together lock step when we are out and when we're together we all speak with the full authority to governing body and we all live here and we all care and we're all trying as hard as we can so thank you for saying that and as soon as the day comes when we're not feeling it we we won't be doing it but thank you anyone else good evening Terry beard 180 precip Road in the whipy section of Hanover Township and there's probably going to be a lot of stairs at my back because of the topic of the red carpet Hotel um I I would like to give you little FYI as to what it's like to be homeless at the homeless hotel and when uh Lindsay brought up about her son um with the uh having to drop out of high school because the landlord refused to write an affidavit that they were indeed living there in Essex County um and it caused him to be out of school he was a straight A student at whipy Ark high school he does have his high school diploma GED um and he's turning 18 on on Sunday when he turns 18 he he should it should be a happy day right when some when your child turns 18 unfortunately due to the laws in our state county and the way that they are executed he um technically the hotel could knock on Lindsay's door at 9:00 in the morning tell them that they have to they actually they have two rooms because they the family is so large so they would have to downsize to one room and I believe um Eddie would no longer be able to be there so he would technically be homeless or more homeless and I would like Lindsay to explain it about how about the $10 and and all that kind of stuff thank you so much Terry so this is how it works when your child turns 18 and you're homeless and you have a hotel voucher or TR or anything like that there's a few options one they have to leave the household and they can go to some homeless youth Runway alternative program in South Jersey a child that finds playing D and D on Friday night you know not not a lot like other children that are in the homeless youth alternative runaway programs um or he can stay with me for an extra $10 a night so that is $310 for the month on top of my $510 co-pay while roaches crawling us while we sleep or I came up with the option because all of my children have gone to school military or some form of Ed higher education that are adults I was told that if Eddie doesn't roll in college then I have to pay the $10 a night for him there and he no longer qualifies for Medicaid or food stamps um or he has to go the other route which is he has to apply for welfare and start the generational welfare curse of the systematic system and it's a system my children weren't even raised and we just got into it in January 2023 and this is why I need to change legislative because I don't think children should have to do this I feel that once things like this happens let's say I was one of those parents that was like all right whatever you're 18 produces you know I could be putting my child in a situation where he starts a whole spiral of possibly drugs in and out of prison things of that nature you know um it is very traumatic to be homeless it is CH my children can't even play in the hallways there because neighbor in 144 likes to call the police because my children are playing and Handover py has to come over there and waste their time because kids are playing so I don't really know what to do about Eddie and if Eddie Eddie wants to get a job but Eddie gets a job they take away our hotel vouchers and they make all of us homeless so we're stuck between a rock and a hard place just to give you guys a glimpse of you know why it's very important we get put on to the proper people that can help change these legislative laws because not everybody has a mom like my children you know that's strong will and just don't take no for an answer thank you thank you by the way can't hotel that's right 25 or 21 in order to the hotel so he if he wants to get a hotel voucher they won't even run him the room so anyone [Music] else uh Dean ainson Mountain Avenue um I actually brought a visual for you I'll take din thank you [Music] thank you starta that's okay okay so what I gave you was is a picture of some of the signs on Mountain Avenue Mountain Avenue is a street with approximately 60 homes and we now have 43 street signs pretty much a a sign for everybody um I know you guys talk a lot about the Aesthetics of the town and I was here when you were talking about the warehouse not not having cement curbing it had to have Cobblestone because of the Aesthetics but Mountain a now looks like a construction zone um my my mom called it the city like are we urbanizing our Our Town um I know we have to do the affordable housing I know you guys wanted to do the speed bumps because of safety but what I don't understand and I have asked J and Joe and you guys I asked why we have the extra signage because if you go down any of the other streets with the speed humps it says speed hump at each end of the speed hump on Mountain you added extra signage that say speed hump ahead so we now have 20 speed hump signs um the spe the speed hump ah head signs I don't understand why we have one at or two at each speed hump it's it's too much and on top of having all the extra signs they're 12 ft or more tall every other sign is about 88 and 1/2 ft tall but those are 12 ft the the one that I measured was 122 in um and when I asked why you guys just told me colier engineering did it but I want to know why they did it and why are you allowing it Jerry we have speed bumps speed humps in other areas of our town why is this different you know um we can get a further clarification from Colliers but I I would I would suspect that it's because we have a series of speed humps along the street obviously the signs are uh to alert drivers of the speed humps and the other locations where we have speed humps it's probably like on Orchard Park we just have lawn on Orchard Park and and granted that was a short section of Road and maybe that's thinking on Mountain Avenue obviously they designed it so we'd have to get a clarification from them um but I would suspect it might have been just because of the nature and the series of it and also they might have been wanted to be more conservative about you know uh the speed hump cuz obviously the speed hump is and can be considered an obstacle in the road it's intended to slow you down so there is an obstacle in the road you need to make drivers aware of it um and in their design they just might have been more conservative um advanced warning signs are allowed um the mutcd does govern that they provide guidance um their guidance really is that you only need one advanced warning sign obviously Colliers has designed it with more but again we we can we can get further clarification but I would suspect it was um because there are so many in a series on that street let's take a look at what's recommended and what we have to put in to be compliant with the law and we'll get back to you sure okay thank you thank you anyone else hi uh Eddie cashen 126 Sunrise Drive in whipy uh but also wanted to talk as the the pool manager tonight as well uh with the passing of the resolution for the splash pad tonight uh just wanted to take the time to thank all of you for your time and your support of the project uh it's been a long road um from from planning to discussions to uh engineering the the company uh that we're using uh impex for the the spray features and just getting everything perfect for for the project um you know I appreciate your time I know you have a lot more other things you know to to do as well um but uh this is definitely going to be a project that uh is probably one of the biggest we've done since the since the opening of the pool um it's going to be for for everyone as um as Mike mentioned not just for a certain age group it's for for everyone involved it's Ada uh and um I'm just excited to see this project go from these these renderings that we've been staring at to to to real life and and definitely going to be amazing you're going to be impressed so um but you know again thank you for for your support of you know the pool and not just the pool but the the future of the pool as well so thanks thank you yeah thank you Eddie and again thanks for for all of your help he really did a lot of leg work I mean how many years have we've been working on this a lot yeah we've gone through two different companies uh but again it's it's a good amenity for the town and that's why I believe strongly in it uh and I really support Eddie again fantastic manager uh you we got some really great people that work for our town so but thanks Eddie anyone else before I ask for a motion to close I see we have one of our Scouts with us tonight would you like to uh approach and say a few words to the governing body and thank you for being here now you're officially participating in the meal so my name is Alex cugu I live on 37 jamman place in Marsh Plains I'm representing Cho 39 I'm here for a citizenship in the No No Communications marit badge requirement which requires me to be in a town par participate in a town meeting and I have completed my Eagle Scout project it is in VFW Post 341 I redid the mock grave so that is up for or anyone that is driving by congratulations thank you congratulations congratulations thank you what do you think of our meeting very informative so I mean I can definitely write a lot about the requirement that I need and that would be my last merit badge to send in you see you got quite a few badges so it's been a long a long journey through this scouting career excellent congratulations thank you and nice to meet you thank you thanks anyone else seeing none hearing none motion to close second all in favor I gentlemen if you'd like to make a comment or two we still have a little more business but John why don't we start with you planning board as you saw worked very very hard on trying to advance some um improvements to many of the zones regarding parking and and regarding space spaces um within those lots um so I I compliment them again good but there was a lot talked about tonight about density affordable housing um needs that people have I'm very proud of Hanover Township and that Hanover Township went to the League conference in November and at that leag conference in November Hanover Advanced a recommendation to the legislators to our State Assembly to our state senate that they change the affordable housing prioritization to really provide the benefit to those in greatest need and those in greatest need are the ones who are of special needs so Hanover's proposal was accepted by the um Municipal group that was there and now it'll go on to the legislators and hopefully will be Advanced and will become law within the state of New Jersey so very very proud of that in in addition Handover raised issues and supported impact studies we all heard and it's real we live here you live here we all Drive these roads you can't keep on putting more and more density into a community like this because there is no way to increase the roads the road system is built you're not going to get an opportunity unless we start taking people's homes um to put roadways so it's not going to happen so impact study uh will will necessitate hopefully contributions from development moving forward when it results in density we also Advance issues in terms of environmental impact which I think will be beneficial so the planning board Environmental Group Green Team been very active and we're very proud of the contributions that they're making tell pan over Advanced initiatives in the state thanks John Ron thank you mayor um I sat here today and by the way thank the public for their comments tonight for coming out on a uh Thursday evening and make themselves heard that's what it's all about uh and we hear you we hear you but uh as one of the Elder members of this Township committee I can tell you Hanover is never afraid of a fight never afraid of a fight I've been involved with COA since 1978 Mount Laurel decisions started on it changed its name several times isn't that nice fair share housing is a new one and now it's under the control of the DCA Hannah was doing its very best the mayor has been organizing about 30 other municipalities who are challenging the allotments that we've got for 2025 I can't agree with uh Bob Bruno anymore uh from the comments that he made that the density in the region is concerned Han has no trouble with his developers developers do fine work in this town There's no question about it is that a project in this town that we're not proud of from that standpoint but what does it come down to it comes down to the density of this thing and how much more we can sustain I don't have to tell you if you drive on Route 10 and you look uh on the uh eastbound side coming down the 1515 projects a be moth they should have their own post office for God's sakes and more of that is going on through throughout the entire State uh it's time for legislators to wake the hell up it's time for them to address this issue uh on the the density uh here's a quote in the past if it ain't broke don't fix it and some years ago when uh Mount Laurel was initiated we had the opportunity to give First Choice to those in need First Choice to nurses First Choice to firemen police Etc uh when the low and moderate housing came into play they took that way we had rcas which were wonderful fancy name all it meant was that fair share housing money that we collected in our Township we could share with other towns who might need it and their allocation would be split to them they took that away so now to the point where we have demands by an outside agency to the township saying this is what you're going to do not just our Township every Township in Mars County where is local home rule for God's sakes where is local home rule you know we came to this community as Bob said we all had uh certain uh um needs that we we found here certain comfortable needs that we found here the entire state is being changed is being demonized by this project I've seen it over the years it's not going to get better it's only going to get worse I mean it got ridiculous at one point one year they were looking at fair share housing to put housing on marown airports runways for God's sakes that's how much good homework they did about looking at the lands available in your town in any event uh the township is going to do its utmost as the mayor has said uh to try and uh ease the density issue that we have here in our town for ourselves other towns will probably do the very same we hope that there's some further decisions from the courts that come up that will reduce the allocations to our towns and make this a lot EAS easier but until that happens this is what we're confronted with but the bottom line with this particular committee man that came down to a fight Hanover's fight before and I'm ready to roll a dice and take a fight that's where I'm coming from but on that note mayor thank you very much for the time thank you Ron and thank you for all your time and all your service too you have a lot of great history Brian thanks I'm going to seed most of my time to committing M because I see a whole bunch of papers in front of him but and I and we we've talked a lot about the discussions this evening uh our points about fair about uh COA and and housing and whatnot and one thing came to mind you know I know Lenny and and even Bob to some extent uh you know said we have to draw a line in the sand and just say no and that's great I would love to be able to do that I'm sure we would all love to be able to do that I wonder though if it didn't work out well for the township and we did wind up with 13 or 1,400 units for example let's say on the bare property would those same people be here before us going you know what good job you tried or would it be a different discussion this is what we as a committee have to contemplate and discuss and that's what we're in the back room trying to make the best decision possible and most of the time that does involve some compromise now please don't get me wrong I'm not saying I'm for or against this particular project all I'm saying is it's a much more complicated decision than simply pounding our and saying no we're not going to do it no no no no it's not going to happen that way so so please bear with us we held this off to the 30th because we are taking this very very very seriously um we know we all want the same thing for this town that that the public does there's no doubt about it so I'm going to stop there because we we've talked a lot about it but that I just want to express my feelings around that um the only other thing I'd like to say is I'm going to change the subject uh I just want to wish everybody a very very Merry Christmas and happy holiday and happy Hanukkah uh but I'd also strongly urge you to be careful as liais on to Public Safety I should warn you that um the Han Township Police Department did receive a grant again they often do uh and it's for the program called uh drive sober or get pulled over they're already active uh they're out there saturation patrols there's always the potential for a checkpoint that sort of thing um no telling you know what what their strategy is but the money is being is been allocated by the state and the res resources have been allocated in the township department so you know that shouldn't be your reason for being careful but on top of please be careful there is another reason so anyway happy holidays everybody and thank you thank you Brian [Music] Mike thank you take I I think we've beaten up the uh you know the low moderate housing enough um you know we I just want to bring one point to back when I was on planning board eight years or so ago um the Eden Mill came forward with a project for 750 units we sent them away fast forward fair share housing steps in we're saddle bag with, 1500 1,500 so that that is what happens we did it um nobody wants to talk about it we sent away a project for 750 units um so that is what we're against I live in Hanover family has I'd like Suburban I do not want Urban um so we're doing the best we can and and again I don't fault the Builder he he builds a terrific project uh but we do we're trying to preserve our town as best we can uh anyway I want a couple things I want point out real quick I'll do them chronologically four minutes okay timing uh Joe set Joe set the timer on me one time when I again December 14th this Saturday we have our Winter Wonderland if you haven't been there it's a free event it's at uh our recreation center it's from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. uh Santa comes uh just before 8:00 p.m. he usually comes around 7:30 there's a tree lighting we're also collecting um uh collecting donations the PBA will be collecting donations while they're serving uh C uh hot chocolate and donuts um and also don't forget to bring your letter for Santa we have a mailbox there we got an Express uh Express train right to right to Santa's office uh so that is Saturday this Saturday from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. Sunday we have the hover wind Symphony uh sponsored by Cultural Arts they're performing over at Memorial Junior School um 300 p.m. that's also another free event uh obviously it's um holidays in Hanover so they're going to be playing I would imagine mostly holiday music but it's fantastic if you had haven't heard them yet um it's really get there early it's Standing Room money but they are they are truly amazing they do perform for us uh several times a year so again free admission Sunday 3 p.m. finally um we have a new project a new event coming out um Hanukah hopla it's on December 29th Sunday from 3:00 to 5:00 at our Recreation Center uh this one you do need to sign up for it's $5 for a family uh and it's really more so we can get a head count uh but keep that in mind uh lots of things going on uh dancing Donuts crafts drle all that kind of stuff that is on December 29th from 3:00 to 5:00 again at our rec center okay and again happy and healthy holidays uh thank you all well thank you Mike great job by the way I got to underscore that Handover win Symphony I mean the if you have an opportunity to get down there that night and listen to them they are outstanding uh this is almost on a professional level uh we've had them we've had them do some performances where they did big band music they brought the house down absolutely fantastic so you can get out there give the again what's the date again uh that's this Sunday yeah yeah this Sunday at 3:00 at Memorial Junior School okay and again free you got to hear them them they're great so okay and also Cultural Arts we're accepting members if anyone's interested reach out to me we'll get you in touch we could always use some more more volunteers to help out uh we got a lot of lot of events coming up but we we can always use some more help with especially with cultural arts got that little plug in there all right I'm done now really you know I just have two quick ones number one the whip for sake flood remediation task force which we created right here in Han Township is a seven municipality shared service agreement we are the chief agency and uh we are going into the water our pre-construction meeting was last Monday There's a site visit on the 17th from there we can have the contractors go in we are going to be Des snagging doing bank reestablishment and we are fighting to also uh begin to dredge to get our water to flow this is real we've been working on it for almost 3 years we've been asked to speak in different places of the state but I said that I will not speak to anyone further until we go into the water because until we're in the water it's still pie in the sky and we're still elected officials and you know what they say about elected officials talk is cheap well once we get in that water our talk is not cheap and it's going to be very very soon we have our final site visit coming up and I just want to recap and I'm glad Brian can included with this because we said it earlier today with the struggles we're having right now with our available land to be developed in Han Township here's as simple as it is from where I sit if I were to say to this or any other specific project no no no and bang this gavel I'm really not doing my job because we don't know what's coming around the corner but we know enough about the history of these programs that it could be much much worse so for instance once again if I jumped up and down and hit this gavel and said no and walked to the to the winter wonderland tomorrow the next day and they said Gallagher you're a hero you stood up well guess what if they come back as an intervenor with 1350 units and I say hey I voted no I don't think that's good leadership so like Brian said we're working this hard as we can we're going to continue until we get to a very very good place so that being said happy holidays thank you to everybody for everything and hopefully we see you very soon I will not call for a motion to adjourn because we still have to go back and complete one legal item in conferencing may have to adjourn this meeting we'll adjourn this meeting motion to adjourn this meeting so move this portion of our meeting second all favor I this is this is this is hideous this is this is a junior person yeah that's somebody didn't know the impact they're looking at