Oh sorry. If you have a public comment, I will need it right before this meeting starts. Thank you. You have any other public comments for this evening? Because once we start the meeting, I will not be able to take any more public comments. Is there anyone
else? Okay. Thank you. All right. Well, we ready to begin. Good evening, everyone. And uh welcome to our special school board meeting this evening. And uh before we start, I
always just like to uh recognize that everyone here, we respect each other here at our board meetings, whether it's us as the board members, our administration or our um community and also students who may be also listening in. So we value each other, we respect
them whether we agree to disagree and also for our public comments. So, I just wanted to make that clear um before we begin to get into the hearing. And also uh on behalf of our superintendent, there was a uh dental emergency this
evening. So he could not be with us in person, but he is uh with us virtually. So he will be um on the meeting, but he had a root canal and I'm pretty sure that could be hard to try to maintain that and also you know uh move forward
with the meeting, but he is on there to hopefully jump in if he is able. So, with further ado, it is uh 6:04 p.m. and I call to order the March 31st, 2026 building closure hearing of the Harrisburg City School District Board of
School Directors for the purpose of reviewing all relevant matters relating to the purpose closing of the existing Marshall Academy and Rolling Academy. If we can please rise for the pledge of
allegiance. To my left to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic which stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Madame Secretary, uh, we are ready now
to, if you can please call the role for this evening. >> Thank you, Madam President. Miss Copelan, >> present. >> Miss Anderson, >> present. >> Mr. Carter, >> present. >> Miss Hughes, >> present. >> Miss Johnson,
>> present. >> Miss Radcliffe, Miss Robinson, >> Mr. Roy, >> Mr. Thompson, Leader >> present. >> And Dr. Suski, >> present. Thank you. We have a quorum.
>> Thank you, Madam Secretary. And now we will move to uh the section for our information and exhibits for this evening. And I would like to turn this meeting over to our district solicitor, Mr. Jeff Sultanic, who will serve as the felicitor facilitator, excuse me, of tonight'sformational
meeting uh hearing if Mr. Sultanic will also like to provide any opening statement. Uh this is now the time. >> Good evening. My name is Jeffrey Sultanic and I am the chair of the education law department at Fox
Rothschild, the solicitors for the district. Uh I will remain chair until midnight tonight and then our firm uh transfers over to a Harrisburg law firm where I will be uh the chair of the education law group at MCNE uh Wallace
and Nurk LLP. Our firm serves as solicitors for the Harrisburg School District in connection with this matter. Um the purpose of this hearing and and by the way with me is Alyssa Drew who is
with our education uh law department at Fox soon to be MCNE. She is to my uh immediate left. And for the purposes of our stenographic record, that is a l y ss a d t r e x if I got that right.
And as I did mention, this proceeding is stenographically transcribed so that it could uh follow the prerequisites of the public school code and the review to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Department of Education.
>> Uh we are going to be recording all of the comments and testimony today uh so that we would have a record. And if you are going to ask questions or testify, just be aware that the stenographer is
going to be listening to all of your words. So try to speak as clearly as you can under the circumstances. We are here today based upon the board's resolution that was passed back on February 10, 2026.
It is important to note as indicated already that if anyone intends to make public comments uh because this is stenographically transcribed gestures, nodding of the head that will not be recorded by a stenographer.
Uh so um uh just reminding everybody once again to speak clearly and uh comprehensively if you uh do choose to speak. Now why are we here today?
As the community is aware, the Harrisburg School District has been engaged in a comprehensive reconfiguration of its elementary and middle level B buildings dating back to 2023
when the former superintendent, Mr. Turman, presented a capital facilities proposal outlining a broad restructuring of district schools. That reconfiguration plan was formally
approved by the uh Pennsylvania Department of Education as well as the uh courtappointed receiver specifically on February 13, 2024.
As part of that long-term facilities plan, Camp Curtain Middle School was identified for major renovations uh for the purposes of creating a more modern centralized middle school experience for students across the
district. Those renovations began during the summer of 2024 and are scheduled to continue through the balance of this school year in 2025 2026. The approved reconfiguration envisions a
middle school model consisting of Camp Curtain Academy, Marshall Math Science Academy, which by the way is not closing. I want to make that very clear. that is not closing. It was incorrectly reported by
the media. Uh so we are apologizing on behalf of that uh misconstruction uh if it uh caused panic in the community. Um and Cougar Academy. So our middle school uh reconfiguration is Camp
Curtain Academy, Marshall Math Science Academy, and Cougar Academy. The question before the board this evening concerns two specific school designations.
And when I say designations is that the Pennsylvania Department of Education, um, and this was not contemplated in the school code, and by the way, it's the subject matter of some level of disagreement that I do have with the
Pennsylvania Department of Education. um uh legal council's office is that they assign numbers to buildings and Marshall Academy located at 301 Hail
Avenue, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 17104 was assigned a number in the past by the Department of Education and Roland Academy located at 1842 Dur Street, Harrisburg 17105. before uh was
also assigned a number. Marshall Academy. Regarding Marshall Academy, the circumstances are unique and I will say is more of a bureaucratic
requirement to engage in board approval for closure than actually closing a facility. that really is not effectively operating anymore. I'd like to call it a paper closure of the building. On paper,
we have to go through this process to comply with the public school code at the request of the Department of Education. and we don't agree that we needed to, but we are doing this to uh uh comply
with the request of the department of uh education. Prior to the commencement of the 2425 school year, PTE, as I said, um issued two separate code numbers for two
different schools housed at the same address. I've never seen this before in the Commonwealth. So, they issued two numbers for 301 Hail Avenue. So, code number 7901
was issued for Marshall Math Science Academy and code number 8266 was issued for Marshall Academy. We've treated them differently
and so has the department arguably so that the department has taken the position that because we've treated them differently even though they were situate within the same building that we need to have a closure hearing
for one because it had a different code number. And um we took the position legally that they were operating in the same facility. They had a single uh principle, a shared facility and
operations. But the department said well because maybe a decade or two ago they issued separate numbers. You have to go through this process and close the numbered of the school.
So it has nothing to do with the building. It has everything to do with the code numbers. When the school code was written in 1949, there was no such thing as code numbers for school buildings. This is something
that is a more recent convention of the Department of Ed. So as part of the 2425 reconfiguration, the district closed the Marshall attendance zone, meaning that the non-
STEM programs at the uh that location, what PTE on paper designated as Marshall Academy, code number 8266 became inactive.
However, the building at 301 Hail Avenue has remained open and fully operational, continuing to house the Marsh Marshall Math Science Academy, code number 7901, which serves students in grades 6
through 8. As stated, the news media incorrectly reported that the math that the Marshall Math Science Academy is closing. I want to reiterate and I want to be clear that Marshall Mass Science Academy is not
closing and will remain open and that is not what we're going to be discussing today. So if you came here worried about the closure of Marshall Math Science Academy, I hope your fears have been
allayed and apologize for any confusion. It is important for the record to reflect when PTE processed these changes in August of 2024, it placed Marshall Academy on inactive
status pending documentation related to a public hearing. After I had extensive discussions with PTE legal counsel, they had agreed that if another school were to close, they would place it on
inactive status, that number, and allow us to have a closure hearing after the fact so that we wouldn't need to have multiple closure hearings. So that was essentially the understanding that we reached with the Department of Education
on the subject. Um I will tell you um we didn't think the school code contemplated this and to this day I still don't think we uh need to do this but we understand that the department of education has been
relegated with the authority to administer this and therefore we are complying to deal with this issue. So, the district was granted a provisional closure of Marshall Academy
for 2024 2025 with the understanding that we would have a formal hearing this year. And we understand there were comments uh that were shared with the board and will be part of the record that addressed
these concerns legitimately. But I wanted to explain it upfront so that at least there is some understanding on what isn't very clear under the circumstances. So to be clear, the closure of Marshall
Academy is what I have characterized as a paper closure. The building at 301 Hail Avenue is not closing. It remains an active school facility housed housing Marshall Math Science Academy. The non- STEM aspects of Marshall Academy uh
program impacted only approximately 83 students when those students were previously to be reassigned as part of the attendance area reconfiguration. and all but approximately 20 of those students continued to attend Marshall
Math Science Academy at the same building. Now, let's talk about the real school closure today, which is Roland Academy. With respect to Roland Academy, the record will reflect a deliberate and
phased approach to a closure that has been implemented over the course of three school years. Roland Academy was originally configured to serve students in grades 6 through 8, was reconfigured for 2024 to 2025 school year to serve
only seventh and eighth grade students and all sixth grade students from Roland were redistricted to attend Camp Curtain Middle School. In the current 2526 school year, Roland Academy serves only 8th grade students.
At the conclusion of this school year, all of those students will be promoted to the ninth grade, leaving the building with no enrolled students. In alignment with the original reconfiguration plan approved in 2024 by the school board and
by PTE, Roland Academy is scheduled for closure effective at the end of the 2026 2027 school year. Now, let me talk a little bit about the law.
>> Section 131311A of the public school code of 1949 provides that a board of school directors may on account of the small number of pupils in attendance or the condition of the then existing school
building. >> What? >> We didn't approve it. >> Okay. Okay. I will I will I will clarify it. The the um uh President Copelan wanted to clarify that the board
technically did not approve the reconfiguration plan. It was the receiver acting in her role as the representative of the Department of Education and acting as uh a receiver
made that approval. Thank you for that clarification. Um, as a result of section 1311A, the school code imposes additional procedural requirements.
Section 7A of the school code pro 780 of the school code provides in the event of a permanent closing of a public school or substantially all of a school's facilities.
The board of school directors shall hold a public hearing on the question not less than 3 months prior to the decision of the board relating to the closing of the school. Notice of the hearing shall be given to a newspaper of general
circulation in the school district at least 15 days prior to the date of such hearings which we have done. So that is what tonight's hearing is about. I will say that uh in 90 days and
I believe we have a special hearing and the board meeting scheduled for June 30th of 2026 is when the school board will actually be making the decision to close on paper
Marshall Academy and to close Roland Academy permanently to comply with the school code provision. uh and the like. That is why we needed to do it right now to to have sufficient time to get that
uh timeline in under the uh school code. Um, we are also with respect to the notice requirements on February 10th, the board of the district adopted a resolution authorizing the advertisement
of tonight and we're going to put that information in the record. The notice of the hearing was advertised in the Patriot News on February 15th and also posted on pen live under legal notices for 30 days.
Uh we will go over that as part of the exhibit book. On February 10th, 2026, immediately after the hearing, we transmitted letters to the Harrisburg Planning Commission and the Dolphin County Planning Commission to comply
with the requirements of the municipalities planning code that addresses the need to have them weigh in on the closure of a school building. And we have accomplished that. And that will also be mentioned when we go over the
exhibits. And um we uh as a school district, we respect the views of our municipal and county entities and making these decisions. So with that in mind, now that we have
the background of that, we're going to now formally made part of the record what is in our exhibit binders. For those of you who are privileged to have these wonderful
black binders, we do have in that document the following exhibits that we would like to make part of the official record of tonight. Exhibit one is the record of the board and receiver approval of the
reconfigurations dated February 13, 2024, including the minutes and proceedings of that meeting. Actually, technically that is just receiver approval because the board was not empowered at that time to approve
anything while we were in receiverhip. Exhibit two is uh a letter to the Pennsylvania Department of Education regarding the reconfiguration dated February 13, 2024. Exhibit 3 is the resolution of the
receiver with respect to the reconfiguration of the Harrisburg School District grade levels dated February 13, 2024. Exhibit four is a document entitled Harrisburg School District proposed
changes for the 2024 2025 school year dated August 14, 2024. Um, exhibit five is the email from the Pennsylvania Department of Education regarding the reconfiguration
information dated August 15, 2024. Exhibit six is the email from the Pennsylvania Department of Education regarding what I was talking about with respect to the issuance of codes and the Marshall Academy designation dated
August 23, 2024. Exhibit 7 is the email exchange between PDE and the district's appealing of their determination that we needed a hearing to address Marshall Academy.
Um, exhibit 8 are the letters and proofs of mailing to the Harrisburg Planning Commission and the Dolphin County Planning Commission dated February 10, 2026. Exhibit 9 is the fully executed board
resolution authorizing this hearing dated February 10, 2026. Exhibit 10 is the confirmation of the advertising of the notice of public hearing dated February 11, 2026. Exhibit 11 is the email from Penn Live
confirming the advertisement of the public notice dated February 11, 2026. Exhibit 12 is the Marshall School enrollment history covering the period of 2009 through 2024.
Exhibit 13 is the response from the Dolphin County uh planning commission and I am uh hereby sating stating that all of these exhibits are hereby admitted into evidence for the purposes
of tonight hearing. The board will have an opportunity to review all of these exhibits not only tonight but following the hearing because we have the 90-day waiting period contemplated under the school code. Uh in terms of public comment
uh which are applicable to the public comment period of this hearing, the board of school directors is very interested to hear comments from district residents and employees who wish to express their opinions about the
proposed closures of Marshall Academy and Roland Academy. Uh comments are limited to three minutes in duration per individual and you will give an a notice when 30 seconds remains in your allotted time. And after the conclusion of your
time period, we ask that you cooperatively conclude your remarks so that others would have an opportunity to speak before the uh board. And in order to sure ensure that the district schedule sufficient time for individual
presentations, we have asked that individuals sign in in advance and signin sheets were already made available um during the public comment period. As is generally our case, the board will not recognize questions directed to the
administration or to any board member. This is not a town meeting, town hall. Uh this will be uh uh a an effort to educate the community on the situation.
Uh and district residents uh are welcome to submit written testimony for the record. Written comments should be directed to the board secretary, Ms. Jatoya Drayton, at 1010 North 7th Street Harrisburg Pennsylvania
17102. I also like to note that we have received a uh public comment uh which will be made part of the record uh which
was received today at 5:23 p.m. from community member Melanie Cook. Board members have seen this and will be part of the record. So, we appreciate your comments. Okay. Just give a moment to do the question.
You want to do the question? Would you want me to? Before the public uh comment, we would like to call as our chief witness uh our assistant superintendent, Dr. from Marisol Craig who has been involved in
the preparation of tonight's hearing and shephering the district administration through the reconfiguration and closure process along with uh my firm. So, we're asking you to take your seat uh
officially and u uh I'd like you to state your full name and your current position with the Harrisburg School District. >> My full name is Dr. Marisel Craig. I'm the assistant superintendent for the Harrisburg School District.
>> And how long have you served in that capacity? >> In this capacity, I've served four years. And prior to that uh time period, how much uh time do you have in this district? >> 20 years.
>> In varieted capacities? >> Yes. >> Are you familiar with the comprehensive reconfiguration plan for the district schools that was first proposed by former superintendent Turman in 2022 2023?
>> Yes, I worked at the district at that time when it was proposed. Okay. Um, in terms of exhibit number three, uh, in the binder, that was the
resolution of the receiver regarding the reconfiguration. Uh, from your knowledge, is that the resolution that was approved uh, by Dr. was it Dr. Suski or Dr. Samuels at that
time? Dr. Suski. >> Yeah, it was Dr. Suski. Yes. Um, regarding the approval of the reconfiguration plan, correct? >> Yes. >> And when was that approved?
>> February 13th, 2024. >> Was the resolution discussed at the board meeting on that date? >> Yes. And um it is my understanding that there were
minutes taken of the board meeting supporting that resolution. Is that correct? >> Yes, that is correct. Does exhibit one reflect
the uh discussion regarding the district reconfiguration? >> Yes. with respect to the letter to the department of education regarding the reconfiguration.
Um, can you briefly describe what you know about the back and forth that was in with that we had with the Department of Education regarding the reconfiguration plan and were you
involved with that? Um what what I can share is that the Pennsylvania Department of Education approved the reconfiguration in August of 2024. However, due to the debate around the legal process required to close Marshall
Academy since the building which also housed Marshall Math Science Academy was not actually closing. Uh the result was that PTE placed Marshall Academy in the inactive status pending the closure hearing. In order to save on cost for
holding two separate hearings, PTE allowed uh that Marshall the Marshall hearing to be conducted when the rolling hearing uh was scheduled so that both closures could be addressed at the same time. Now, Marshall Math Science Academy
as part of the reconfiguration was it initially a 5 to8 school and what did it convert to initially? >> Do you want me to provide the history of it? Well, I don't need the history, but I'm just saying. >> Yeah, it was a five it was a 508 school
uh prior uh at I believe it was reconfigured in 2014 as a middle school academy. Prior to that, it was elementary. Um >> Okay. So, it actually moved initially in the reconfiguration from a 5 to8 to a 6
to8 school. Is that correct? No, it remained a 5 to8 and then it became inactive in 2425. >> Okay, that for Marshall Math Science Academy. >> Yes, it was inactive. Marshall Math Science was reconfigured 6 to8.
>> That's what I meant. I'm sorry. Marshall Math Science Academy initially was a 5 to8. >> Yes. >> And convert six to eight. >> Yes. And where did the students go after for from
Marshall Math Science Academy >> at that time? >> So at the end of the 2324 um school year, there were only 83 students enrolled in the Marshall attendance zone school side of the building. Um and those students were
absorbed mostly uh in the Marshall Math Science Academy program. >> Okay. And um did the Marshall Math Science Academy
that converted from a 5 to 8 to grade 6 to 8, did they relocate Scott students to the Lincoln building? Did we also relocate students from the Scott building to the Lincoln building?
I mean not just the Scott students to the Lincoln building. >> Yes. So that was part of the reconfiguration plan. >> Yes. And also Cougar Academy moved from
the Lincoln building to the Hamilton building. Correct. >> That is correct. And we also relocated the alternative education program from the Hamilton
building to the Scott building. >> Correct. >> And there was a planned three-year phase out of the Roland Academy. >> That is correct. >> Okay. So that was what was contemplated
in that reconfiguration. that was approved by the receiver, approved by the department of education and that was the plan that was uh masterminded by former superintendent Turman. >> That is correct. >> And were you involved in that
reconfiguration process? >> I was. That's cool. >> As part of that reconfiguration plan, did the district make any determinations regarding Camp Curtain Academy
and its role as a centralized middle school. Can you >> um It was decided that Cam Curtain would be a flagship middle school in the district. Um but students will also have an opportunity to attend Marshall Math
Science which is which is an application only program school um or also had the opportunity to apply for Cougar Academy at the middle level. Based upon your knowledge and your work in the district, was the reconfiguration
plan ultimately adopted and implemented by the district administration? >> Yes. In August of 2024, was there further discussions between the department and the district regarding the fate of Marshall Academy?
>> Yes. >> Okay. And uh once again, what was your understanding of what PTE was trying to resolve at that time? Um I already stated it but again uh there
is debate around the legal process required to close Marshall Academy since the building which also houses Marshall Math Science Academy was not actually closing. >> That's correct. Okay. Um,
I'd like you to also look at exhibits four, five, and six, and seven in the exhibit book. Do those exhibits accurately reflect the email communications that you were aware of
regarding the reconfiguration and the communications with PD on the subject. to the best of your knowledge. That's exhibits four, five, six, and seven. >> Yes. What is your understanding of the
history of Let me ask the question this way. What was the difference between Marshall Academy and Marshall Math Science Academy? Marshall Academy was our attendance zone students who lived in the neighborhood
and MA Marshall Math Science Academy was our application STEM program. Both were housed in the same building at 301 Hail Street. So, Marshall Math Science Academy, was that an applicationbased program?
>> Marshall Math Science is an application only program. Yes. >> While Marshall Academy was, if you lived in the attendance zone, you went there. >> Correct. And students who went to Marshall Academy, did they receive any STEM
programming? >> No. >> Only those who went to Marshall Math Science Academy. >> You got to say yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Remember the nodding doesn't work. Okay. >> Yes. And as stated is the plan to keep the
building at 301 Hail Avenue in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania open to house the Marshall Math Science Academy? >> Yes, that is the plan. >> Did Marshall Academy and Marshall Math Science Academy share a faculty and a principal?
>> Yes. And as you stated, Marshall Academy is currently inactive. >> Correct. Yes. >> There's no educational programming going there. There's no attendance zone for Marshall Academy anymore. >> Yes. And there's no students. >> Okay. And when did when did students
stop going to Marshall Academy, to the best of your knowledge? At the end of the 23 and 24 school year, there were 83 students still in the Marshall Academy. Those students were absorbed into the math science academy program and or went
to other places if they chose. Were there any staff members that were impacted by the closure of Marshall Academy at the end of the 2324 school year? >> No. >> Why is that?
>> They remained in the building to support the 83 students that were absorbed. >> Okay. But they also were they on staff for the Marshall Math Science Academy? They >> were. Yes. >> And right now there's no staff members
uh currently assigned a Marshall Academy because it's inactive. >> Yes. >> So right now as we speak here today, the closure of Marshall Academy does not involve the physical closing of any building. Is that correct?
>> Yes. Now, as you said earlier in what I mentioned in my opening statement, Roland Academy was placed on a three-year phase out plan. Is that correct? >> Yes, that's correct. >> And that began in 2023.
>> U well 2023 2024 the building had sixth, seventh, and eighth grade. The plan was to reduce one a grade every year. Um so in 2425 they did not admit any sixth grade. The
sixth grade were redistricted to Cam Curtain. Um and the sixth graders from the previous year moved in moved up to seventh grade and the seventh graders from the previous year moved up to 8th grade. Um so in 2425 there was only seventh and eighth grade. 7th and eighth
grade. Um and then in 2526 um the seventh graders moved up to eighth grade and the eighth graders from the previous year were promoted. So currently in the 2526 school year we only have eighth grade. >> So there's no new sixth graders or
seventh graders going to Roland Academy. >> That's correct. So by virtue of the reconfiguration plan we planned so to speak the obsolescence of Roland Academy. Is that correct? >> Yes.
>> And at the end of this year the intention is that the grade 8 students will go where? >> They will be promoted. >> Okay. >> So currently we have 143 students sitting in 8th grade at Roland Academy. they will be promoted. So they will
either go to John Harris, Scitec or DCT Techch and >> they will obviously go to eighth grade. I mean nth grade, right? >> Nth grade. Correct. >> So once the students are promoted to ninth grade, there wouldn't be any enrolled students at Roland Academy.
>> Yes, that is correct. And how many positions are there currently employee positions at Roland Academy? Teaching positions. >> 21. >> And where will those positions be placed
after the closure of Roland? >> All those positions will move currently to Camp Curtain. And will the need be assessed at that time for those positions >> organizationally?
>> Yes. >> After the closure of Marshall and Roland, what will be the middle school model of the district moving forward? It will be Kim Curten Marshall Math Science Application School
or Cougar Academy application as well. >> And Cougar Academy is K to2 hybrid instruction. >> Yes, that's correct. With respect to Marshall Academy, since it's been on an active status and there are no students or staff currently assigned to it, is it
accurate that the formal closure will not result in the displacement of students or any loss of staff positions? >> Yes, that's correct. >> With respect to Roland Academy, will any students be displaced technically? >> No,
>> because they're being promoted to nth grade. Correct. >> Yes, that's correct. And the staff members from Ooland Academy are being transferred and absorbed into Camp Curtain Academy. >> Yes, that's correct. >> So in some that is the plan. >> That is the plan.
>> Thank you. Just let to uh record note that uh your testimony will be included as part of the record as well as the district exhibits in the hearing binder. And to the extent that they were not admitted,
they are currently being admitted into evidence based upon what we have just heard. Um, are there any questions from the board of school directors for um, Dr. Craig regarding the testimony
that you have just heard? Uh let the record note that board member uh Autumn Anderson is asking a question. Thank you. Um I just had a question about the financial impact of the reconfiguration. Is a school district are we saving money from it? So what
does that financial landscape look like for us from the reconfiguration? >> Um I'm going to defer this question to Mr. Rei who was uh who was involved in the financial aspect. >> Let the record note uh Mr. Rei could you
give your full name and your title and responsibility in the district? >> John El Rei. I am the chief operations administrator. And I think that your question would need research in terms of really looking at the total cost. I don't think that's
really something that uh we could just give you a number tonight. I think that would be something that we have to go back and look at you know the savings over the several years that the configuration has been in place. Uh what I will say is you know some of the justification for the configuration
especially with Roland was looking at the feasibility study and I believe at the time the number was about 13.8 million that was required to be put into Roland and that was probably 3 or four years ago. So that number is probably well over 15 million just from a capital
perspective that would need to be put in that building. And as you know, that wasn't a building that was built as a school building. That was build that was a building that was built as an office. Uh which is a lot different when you're talking, you know, how long a building lasts. Uh school buildings are built to
last for a long time and they're very durable. Um so it would take an intense capital effort in terms of bringing Roland back to life which was one of the justifications for uh the reconfiguration. The other justification for the
reconfiguration is really to consolidate services. Uh we had three middle schools running at somewhere around 60% of student capacity and we simply just didn't need three middle schools running at such a low capacity. So, we really
had to choose one and Roland was really the perfect one uh to be the out uh in terms of of making that decision. Uh so, there's really a lot of money that's saved from not having a principal, not having vice principles, not having uh
other support services. Um everything from custodial to food service uh for that third building. So, those are the type of savings that once Roland does close that we'll also see moving forward. Thank you. I think you got to the the
heart of my question because I think that was one of the things that was cited way back when. So, I just wanted to confirm if that was the case. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I admitted I just saw a note that you you had your hand up earlier, I
believe. No, maybe I'm more >> Brian. Oh, who has their hand up? >> Carter. >> Okay. or follow I see on online which board members I'm sorry which board members have their hand up.
>> Hi uh Annie Hughes. >> Okay Annie uh Miss Hughes can you identify your full name and please note that you are going to be uh uh included in the record for your question. >> Sure. >> I'm sorry I didn't have my uh speaker
on. Just for the record once again, uh, Miss Hughes, give your full name and, uh, please, uh, ask your question, uh, to anybody here. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, my full name is Annie L. Hughes. Um, I'm a board member.
I apologize I can't be there in person tonight, but appreciate um, everyone who's shown up. One question I had uh for in terms of implications for the completion of the shift of of closure of these um school school numbers what
whatever um is the average class size in at at Camp Curtain as a result of um you know shifting the rest of our students there. Can someone comment on that? The expected class size is it big larger or smaller than the target?
Um I can actually speak to that as we're working on the scheduling um at Cam Curtain for the 2627 school year right now. Currently the numbers are between 24 and 26 students in sixth, 7th and 8th grade.
>> Thank you for that. Uh is that um considered an acceptable target for a class size or is that higher than we normally like? Any thoughts there? >> For middle school that those are average sizes, class sizes. >> Okay. Thank you very much.
>> And and if I could jump in there just a little bit and talk about capacity. So the capacity of camp curtain is 900 students and that is looking at a number of 80% educational capacity which is 25 students a class.
So we are currently enrolled about 740 students. Uh and then certainly the fifth graders will be moving up. So that'll push that number to about 890. uh which will be right about again 80% educational capacity which is a good number. However, you know, we saw this
coming and we didn't want um we didn't want large class sizes in Camp Curtain. So, we created a project to convert the enrollment center, the old enrollment center, which recently moved here to 1010 into four classrooms. Uh so, that's
going to add 100 to the capacity of that building. Uh so you know we we certainly didn't want um you know 30 or 40 students in a class that's not appropriate. So we added extra classrooms and we're also
converting an additional classroom on the second floor. So in total we'll be adding five classrooms to Camp Curtain for next year. Uh Mr. Carter, I apologize. I know you had your hand up. uh can you uh
introduce yourself and uh identify the question that you have for the panel? >> Hey uh good evening uh board, good evening administration and good evening uh community members. My name is Brian Carter. I am currently the schoolboard director for the Harrisburg School
District. Um uh Miss U Miss Hughes had uh asked a similar question that I was going to ask. I was going to ask what is the capacity per classroom at Camp Curtain? Um, and was the uh classrooms uh fully being uh at full capacity for the amount of students to be uh placed in each
classroom? Was it at full capacity? That pretty much was one of my questions that I believe Miss Hughes uh asked. Another uh question that I had was uh we talked a lot about cost and savings, but we haven't talked about how the behavior issues are being addressed. So, um what
behavior metrics have we put in place to help um curve the negative behavior issues that we had? and also how are we accommodating our teachers and staff um in regards to those behavior issues and those concerns that we have from the community at Camp Curtain.
>> So I think between uh myself and Mr. Rei, we answered the questions around class sizes and the capacity. Um right now we're under the capacity of 900. We're at 740 students. So class sizes are reasonable. Um in regards to the
behaviors, those are those are things that we are talking about and discussing now. Um the structure um the support systems that need to be in place um for next year and that is part of our summer planning and training for staff and
administrators. >> Okay. And also will uh surveys from teachers and uh students also be included with uh possibly a presentation in regards to the structural plan that you have put in place for next school year. So we can actually hear back from our teachers and staff and students
about how Cam Curtain is actually functioning because we had quite a bit of concerns um addressed from the community who has been very vocal in regards to the concerns that myself and another board director had in regards to the reconfiguration. And in that uh moment, the board did not have any say so in regards to approving the
reconfiguration. But some of us had concerns as to how Camp Curtain would function as one of the only middle schools that we have available for our students aside from the the application um based school for accepted in
>> um thank you Mr. Carter for that information. We can certainly um do a survey with the staff and the students to get feedback on um how to um improve uh their experience at Camp Curtain. I know that we did take feedback from the
teachers this school year regarding the structure of classes. So for example, uh one of the requests from the teachers were having team time. That was not something that they had this year that we are making sure that is available in the schedules for next year. Um we also
took into account providing more opportunities for students for humanities. Um it was not um they felt there was more things that needed to be offered for students. So those are some of the things that we're putting in place that are addressing uh some of the requests from teachers this
school year. >> Okay. Um >> I know that we also um we also were or Cam Curtain was also approved to be able to provide clubs next year up to 12 I believe was a number. So we did take teacher surveys and student surveys to
get feedback on what type of clubs they would like to be s they would like to be offered at camp curtain next year. >> Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Are there any other board members who have their hands up on that screen? Any
other questions? President Copeland. >> So, um, >> identify yourself. >> Yep. I'm Roslin Copeland. I'm a board member here at Harrisburg School District. We're president. And, um, my question was pretty much I'm glad some of my board members asked cuz that's
where I was going directly to the capacity of it. And um by answering that that helps a little bit of the clarity. But I also have uh concerns about um when we think about enrollment right there can be a increase and then um I
know you spoke about more classrooms but originally again at the time we weren't uh in position to vote as a board. I had a lot of concerns with the reconfiguration. One um we have a new leader now right? So, the one who
actually put it in place is not with us. So, now we have Dr. Henry, which I know he couldn't be here tonight, but I want to make sure is that something that aligns to with his current mission because my thoughts around it was
neighborhooding schools of getting back to that. And it sounds like we just, you know, I know we're in the process of clo uh not, you know, having this discussion about it, but I have concerns about the increase to make sure that we do have
enough space and trying to put that in place. Is it working or not working? Because I know we move forward with it, but can you speak about the concerns like uh Mr. Carter spoke about the behaviors because I'm getting a lot of
you know feedback of it's just overly crowded. Uh there's a lot of things taking place and um we want to change the um atmosphere why we were putting it in place. So I was under the um impression that we were looking to neighborhood the schools but if we're
sending all the children just to one area um that could look different. So, so can we speak to what if this uh which I know we're kind of in the last phase we say do we do we know
how that's going to like is it going to work or what does that look like even we're trying to open up to new classrooms like cuz if we're not ready in that time the children are not they're going to be misplaced again right and then who's going to be responsible then that takes
a little you know weight onto our administration, right, and trying to retain our teachers, but we're putting a lot of load and not having something. So, can we speak to what what is what other plan or placement do we have around that
that we can speak to to help us with clarity before that decision comes before us? >> Well, I spoke a little bit about it earlier. Um, but we did take feedback again from the teachers regarding this the situations and the issues and
concerns that were happening at Camp Curtain this school year to make sure that we were addressing that um prior to the beginning of the start of next school year. Um, my understanding is that the classrooms uh Mr. Rey and you can confirm will be completed by the end
of this school year if not midsummer. Um, so you can confirm that piece. Um but we have been working as administrative team to really address the needs um that we are getting also feedback on at Camp Curtain.
>> Thank you. >> Yeah, as I talked about earlier, there's plenty of capacity at Camp Curtain. Uh there's plenty of capacity even with the new RON students coming in. Uh but we are creating again four classrooms in the enrollment center and that project will be wrapped up hopefully May 1st. um
because there's there's no students, there's no activity in that area at this point. Uh so there is there is no issue from a capacity standpoint in that building. In addition, one area that I did not point out is that we're adding a second cafeteria.
And in that second cafeteria, we're going to add an additional lunch line. Uh one of the things that we saw was students were getting through lunch. It was taking a couple extra minutes to get through the lunch line. So, we're creating an extra cafeteria with a capacity of about 120 students as well
as a third lunch line. That way, students can effectively and efficiently get through the lunch. Thank you. Now, what will that and I don't will that open up because I know we have some other application schools
around like DC Tech um and again the um Marshall. Would that be would there be cuz I know that was a part of the reconfiguration to open up more um enrollment application for the 100 students and I don't think they met that capacity or can you did we meet that cuz
I know they had to wasn't it an extension for 100 more applicants >> for DC Tech? >> No, no, no. For uh Marshall. Oh yeah, that is part of the plan and we have been talking to the principal there about expanding the Marshall math science um to be able to accept more
students. >> Okay. Yeah, cuz I'm thinking with that play some type of, you know, to open it up to more cuz I know it's kind of sometimes hard to get the children in there, but if we can not just take them all to push them all into one area, how
what does that look like expanding there to help you know parents and processing and I think just helping out. I know also too there was an opening at uh Cougar Academy too. Yes. So um that's another area that students should take
advantage or parents should be taking advantage of not just focusing on that one school career academy is open and that should be another area because you just don't want to compact all children into one big building and expect that you won't get you know some type of
kickback. So just want to >> No, thank you. No, thank you for bringing that up. Yes, the students there will be students that will be moved or will be going to um Marshall Math Science and also um we are working with the principal at Cougar Academy as well that they will be able to admit
more students at the middle level >> and that is I just would like some feedback after we get to that final uh phase per se. I think any other questions? Yes. >> Um, >> board member Autumn Madden has another
question. >> Thank you. Um, Autumn Anderson, board vice president. Um, I was just curious. I know you talked about the current capacity of the classrooms. Sorry. Did you mention what the previous capacity was before the reconfiguration or do you
know what that number is? How big the classes were before? >> No, I don't have that information right now. and the class sizes I gave is for it's a prediction of the numbers for next for 2627 school year.
>> Okay. Thank you for clarifying. I think um and I don't want to speak on behalf of the full board but just from my perspective I think one of the concerns is not necessarily just about like quantity like just not not just like about the amount or the capacity but ensuring the quality right and making
sure that with the change the teachers and the staff are supported making sure that we're providing whatever type of behavioral support that looks like for the students as they adjust to that change I think that's really important um and I I I think to um well I guess I
had a question about the communication piece just do we know what that communication has looked like or continued to look like again I know that it was a different superintendent at the time um we were under receiverhip now we have a new superintendent I think one of
the things that the board raised at that meeting back in 2024 was just making sure we were communicating with the public and the parents and teachers and students um and we don't have any exhibits here for that so could you maybe just speak to what communication has looked like or will continue to look like with this reconfiguration with the
community. >> I'm sorry for clarification. Are you seeking around the clarification of the communication around Marshall and the closing of Marshall and the closing of Roland? >> Yes. Sorry. And just like changes at Camp Curtain, right? So, it sounds like
we have a second cafeteria. the changes that are happening from the reconfiguration, how that's being communicated. >> So that we're still working on a communication plan for that. So currently, nothing really has been sent out recently. Um, but we're working on a
communication plan for that. And also I just want to say the board members if anyone is interested in in like sitting I'm willing to sit down with the board and kind of explain the schedules and some of the things that we've been doing to plan for next year 26 27 to address a lot of the concerns that I know have
been coming to the board have been coming to us at the central office level to um just make sure that you're understanding the things that we are trying to put in place. >> Thank you so much. Any other questions of the board?
There being no other questions of the board, I'm going to turn it back to President uh Copelan to do public comment uh from as a result of the testimony and the questioning uh up until this point. >> Thank you. So now that theformational
meeting uh hearing has concluded, we are ready to begin the public comment period. U Madame Secretary, do we have any public comments this evening? >> Yes, we do. Madam President, the first one we have is Miss Melanie Cook. If you could state your name and address for
the record. And just a quick reminder, you are allotted three minutes. Thank you. >> And also know before we get started, these are all residents here in Harrisburg. Okay. All right. >> Yes.
>> Thank you. >> Good evening. My name is Melanie Cook. M E L A N I E C O K. One of the first things I want to do is implore the president and the members of the board to hold town halls to discuss this. As
you know, many of you received an email that I sent at 6:30 this morning based on communications I was getting with people with the mass confusion. I'm not going to get into it because I have the emails and anyone who would like them, I can make a copy available. But anybody
reading the Berg, anybody watching Channel 27 News, anyone going on the website was getting conflicting information about how this hearing was going to take place, whether or not it involved Marshall Math and Science or Marshall Academy. A press release sent
to the public and to the members of the press could have helped to alleviate a great deal of the mass confusion that has occurred as a result of the failure to do so. So I am going to try to address the comments that were put forward. First we have uh Mr. Sultanic
referring to the closure of Marshall Academy um as a paper closure of the building and the hearing was to be conducted to comply with the school code. Basically a hearing is required in order to require to comply with the law.
It is not a paper closure of the building. The building is not officially closed until such time as there is a public hearing. In February of 2024, a theoretical determination was made that the building would be closed. Students were moved out of the building. The fact
that they have two different code numbers means that they are two different institutions in the face of PDE. Rather than accept that, Mr. Sultanic's law firm challenged it. You talk about reducing costs. How much did it cost to fight a legal battle that you
lost and ultimately had to have a public hearing over two years after a determination was made to close the school? And as far as cost, we have a stenographer here. If we had to have two hearings, the only additional cost would have been the stenographer.
So that is a different that's a point. Also, when you make reference to the exhibits, exhibits that we don't get to see, one of the things is is there was definite public outcry against putting all these students into one building.
And again, as my time ticks off and I have pages of additional comments, know that the Harrisburg School District attempted this decades ago. They put every student in middle school in one building. It was a cataclysmic failure. The building was closed. demolish and
the land sold. And yet we are turning around doing the same thing. I invite you to go into Camp Curtain if you think 24 to 26 kids is an acceptable number of 12 to 14 years old. And better yet, try to teach them. I have much more to say
and I demand a town hall to do it. >> Thank you, Miss Melanie Cook. >> Next, we have is it Miss Rhonda Sparkman? And just a quick reminder, um, you're allowed three minutes and if you can state your name and address for the record. >> My name is Rhonda Sparkman. I live at
1954 Rudy Road in Harrisburg, 17104. My concern was about Marshall Math and Science. I have a clarification now and I understand that. Um, I am concerned about the class sizes. It is romper room. Y'all got to stop acting like it's
not. These kids are out of control and you guys are going to do a plan. We trust you guys in your judgments. That's why we vote for you guys to go into your office positions that you hold. But my
my son did go to um Camp Curtain. He busted from the hill up town and milk and water was thrown on the bus on the ride home and stuff. Children got removed off of the bus.
There is a problem and has always been a problem in the city where kids from uptown don't necessarily get along with kids on the hill. That's why we thought that redistricting would be you would be in your neighborhoods and that the class
sizes would be smaller. Now, my son was accepted at math and science academy, but he tells me that the kids that were getting into fights and suspended at Camp Curtain are at math and science. I
don't understand that. >> Exactly. We have the ability Miss Holland, the ability, guys are failing our kids. >> Thank you, Miss Rhonda Sparkman. >> Miss Rolls, just a quick reminder,
you're allowed three minutes and if you could state your name and address for the record. Thank you. My name is Jocelyn Rolls. Um, I live in Belleview Park. Uh, I'm usually at my city council meetings on these days. However, um, I have two children in the district and it was important for me to be here today.
Um, I have a lot of concerns, but I know only have 2 minutes and counting down my seconds here. The thing that I am most afraid of and the thing that worries me the most and keeps me up is that the expectations for our students are different depending on
what school they go to. And they should be the same. Whether they go to camp curtain, math, science, sci-c academy, the expectations for our students should be the same. And they are not. If you go to camp curtain, you go to John Harris, you are a population that is noted as
failure to thrive. And it shouldn't be that way. Whatever is offered at math and science STEM program, if that's the STEM program, then Camp Curtain should offer other programs. maybe public health, maybe communications, and maybe theater. But
those students should be given a purpose to come to school every day instead of noted as failure to thrive. Every student who is not accepted to an application program is thrown in camp curtain and they know exactly what is
thought of them and they act as such. Why not? My expectation is low. I'm seen as low. I'm seen as dumb. I didn't get accepted to any of the programs. So, I'm going to come and do exactly what you put me in here to do. I'm going to fight. I'm going to cuss my teachers
out. I'm going to throw food around. I'm going to do whatever it is you have noted me to do. And that is what they do. My hope I have two hopes for this configuration. One, we think better. We do better cuz we are better. Yes, we have failed our students, but we don't
have to continue to. Two, all the money that is about to be freed up, I heard millions of dollars. Put AIDS in these classrooms, K through five. I am sick of these overcrowded classrooms and these teachers doing it
on their own. I know how that feels. I taught kindergarten in New York City, 30 kids. I don't even know how I'm standing here today, but I am. And I didn't have an aid. But if I had an aid who could take some of my kids while I work with other kids, it would have made a
difference. You have got to get aids in these classrooms. So, I hope that is one thing you do when you do this configuration and when you free up this money, get certified aids. I don't care if they're in an educational program in a college. I know there's a lot of grant
money going around that Shapiro has offers. If that is one of the things and you can put teachers that are in schools going to school to be teachers, put them in these classrooms as aids and let's do better for our kids. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Jocelyn Ross.
>> Miss Sheila Turner, and just a quick reminder, you're allowed three minutes and if you can state your name and address for the record. Thank you. >> Good evening. My name is Sheila Turner. My address is 341 Kelker Street, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 17102.
Um the questions I have is they're saying about how kids are having problems in schools. Okay. You take you take children that need help and there is no help for these children that need
help and then you expect them to be a good child or try to get their education. They're just pushed to the curb. Um my my concern is I have a child in Martha Science Mad Academy. Um she'd been there since fifth grade. I have
seen a major major difference in that school. Um when they combined when they combine regular students and application students together um is causing problems for these children to learn that classrooms are
overloaded. there's only one teacher and half of them classes have more than 25 kids in the class. How do you expect these kids to learn? If there's not enough supervision there and these kids that have issues
get help to help them so they can be a better child, you know, they're they're they're people too. They need education just like everybody else. So that's all the concern I have. >> Thank you, Michila Turner.
That concludes the public section of the public hearing. >> Thank you, Madam Secretary. And um thank you all um who spoke because it's important that um we all come together cuz that's a part of why we're all sitting here. So it's not a one man's
job. It takes the village. So, um, this is not our dayto-day here, but promise you, I know, not only put on the hat, it's it's hard to get sleep because I'm a mother. I have three children, have a grand grandson, and that's why I
continue to sit here until we see the change. But again, it takes us to continue. So, thank you all the parents and who spoke today cuz I think people don't understand it's not always to show up when we see what's going on. is to show up because we don't have all the
answers neither. But that's why everybody is valued. Everybody is respected because we don't just hear you. We take it to our admin. We take it to our superintendent and we have these questions and again we
town halls. We we started collaborating the uh the school district and the city council which haven't been done in so many years. So all we can do is continue to fight and that's what what we're all here for. So again, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And we got we got work
to do. So with that, u we will now adjourn the meeting for this evening. So do I have a motion to adjourn the meeting? >> So moved. Anderson. >> Is there a second? >> Seconded. Thommpson leader. All in favor
signify by saying I. I. Those opposed meeting is adjourned.