##VIDEO ID:JsgQ6oi4TUY## all right uh call the meeting to order for the January 8th 2025 planning board meeting uh 602 my name is Stephanie slish I'm the chair of the planning board uh to my right I have Jimmy tar alternate chair all the way at the end I have Doug Finn to my left I have John Jeff and my far end over here Lee Bell we have our Administrative Assistant Lori pricard and our Town Administrator uh Andrew Levine here as well um so first item on the agenda as always is public forum this is an opportunity for anyone who is not on the agenda to speak tonight and bring some anything forward to the attention of the planning board with that being said I know it looks like I think you two are on the agenda so I will uh we we can close public forum and go to approval of the minutes before we we speak to our guests tonight so we have the meeting minutes from December 4th if y'all had had a chance to take a look I've had a chance to review I'm happy to make a motion to approve as presented second any further discussion all in favor I I all right all right minutes from dece December 4th uh have been approved all right uh first item on our agenda is um uh conversation about potential project at 10 West Street which is partial ID number 22424 d0 um I got an email late last week about this just inquiring about the process and um I told them that we had a meeting tonight um but this particular project um as propos we'll learn more about it I just got very top level in an email um it's up for site plan review and so this is not the official site plan review this is more just a bit introduction um to us and and and to the project so if you want to John we be able to hear them if they or should would they yeah either move up to the chair and introduce yourself first for the record and then go in um okay uh I'm Dan bonam from bonam and Douglas Architects um I was here for the uh tennis and pickle ball facility uh last summer that you folks approved and um I'm here with Amy mcdna uh my client who is interested in uh opening a pizza and pinball um restaurant uh and and facility uh in the former Lumber Liquidators uh location at 10 West Street it's the Northerly uh portion of of the what maybe commonly known as the Dano U mini mall or uh building um I've outlined it here uh this is the the plot plan with uh this is the portion of the building here to the north um and then you can see kind of here the situation within the neighborhood and just off the Town Line so my understanding is it's a um business with a mixed use overlay uh as a zoning district and um we wouldn't be making any changes to the building footprint other than maybe a uh walk-in cooler or something attached to the side of the building that would be entered uh from inside um to be determined there though primarily uh no exterior improvements other than some paint and signage um anything else want to add to that um no I guess I'll just introduce myself too say I'm Amy MCD I've lived here for about 20 years um I'm a renewable energy developer geologist by schooling renewable energy by career and I just recently retired um after 14 years working in our and running our New York business and I want to work local so I'm a developer and I love pinball I'm I'm also a founder of the Northampton bells and Chimes which is a women's pinball Enthusiast Club I hold tournaments right now at my house and it was through this growth of my enthusiasm about pinball that this idea actually germinated and um when I started looking around at this concept I decided I really needed a bar I needed alcohol I needed food to go along with the entertainment and that led me to liquor licenses which led me to available property in towns that had liquor licenses which led me to here and so the project is kind of grown to the size of the building um and and I think there's a lot of opportunity there um but yeah that's that's the idea restaurant in front arcade in the middle beastro family like not elevated not fast food um Woodfired brick oven is actually the entertainment of the restaurant if you will you'll see people cooking and the whole menu will be based on that style of food how big is that portion of I'm just curious square foot 7,000 7,14 square feet what a great mesh with the carding too right like entertainment What a Day family day do you have sorry do you have restaurant experience just 10 years of service being a server myself okay so and and that was all through college and it ended so I'll be hiring people I'll be running the business and I'll have my metrics for success but there'll be a chef and there'll be an event manager and there'll be a bar manager everyone needed to run the business so one kind of interesting thing about the building is as it goes back the grade actually steps down in the very back portion um maybe roughly a third of this long building here is a a very high open space It's Kind of Perfect for a function room for a lack of a better term maybe more uh organized for you know uh bar kind of area in the back and then maybe some potential for a little stage with some music but um the uh the the space is kind of perfect for it so birthday parties Etc what did you find out about liquor licenses just that there's one available there is yeah yeah not our perview but it's interesting know yep um yeah and we can't really have like I said like a full conversation or you know about everything tonight just because it's not the site plan review piece um I know this was just an intro but um yeah excited about the potential opportunity I will uh say that we passed the Hatfield design guidel lines recently I you know you proba I think they're around for that project that's something to refer to um if you're playing on any exterior changes really signage would be what we'd be most interested in and you know obviously some paint yep um but um yeah signage will be our and I think that part of the building is like is it wood on the outside anyway it's kind of the front is yeah the street side yeah the rest is just metal panel like a typical Butler Building but nice okay and this interesting Courtyard inside too which is pretty cool you can actually see through uh this portion here this kind of dog leg is low and has windows on both sides you can see into this outdoor Courtyard so potential for some uh little patio space out there um you know some outdoor yard games and things like that in the summertime yeah and the way the site plan riew works is it's not it's just notifies the butters that's part of the reason why um we're asking to get any application materials like hopefully a couple weeks in advance do so we have so the butters get enough of a notice and so for our plan we would um we need to I assume diagrammatically it would be sufficient show the utilities on site uh do we need a survey a stamp survey with those things it's Town Water and Sewer in that location um with the site plan review I'm try we those are rare for us I can look it up if you need you know if you don't know are you looking to change the location of the utilities no no no are you looking to put Construction in place on top of them next to them adjacent to them no I don't think so is the electric service overhead or underground um I don't know it's in the walls well he's asking service oh it's yeah I don't know I mean I see a wire going probably that's probably telephone or cable or something but yeah yeah I mean we can look at all that um likely we're going to be working with Thiago uh at least in the preconstruction they're very familiar with uh you know all the utilities and things like that they've already been assessed I think where you're going though is like if there's going to be changes in changes to right right yeah in which case I don't care yeah right um to you don't listen to you I would be interested in knowing what the applicant would be interested in doing with the outside uh noise live music on-site music Amplified music lighting yep um we're going to be notifying the abuts so they're going to have an opportunity to comment and understand what the impacts might be um if the activity is going to go late into the evening if there's going to be activity you know all day every day and every weekend day or something like that parking exor parking exterior L basically the exterior appearance yeah yeah um I would assume that our fire department and our Board of Health are going to manage the interior details egress multiple points in the building that sort of thing so I'm not as worried about that yeah anticipating what a butter would be concerned about that seems Y and also probably uh information about if there's deeded parking spaces that go with that unit understanding what that is um business hours weekend hours business hours weekend hours I'm sure that the parking could overlap if they're going to be open when the furniture store next door is going to be closed no no harm no foul if they're taking some Extra Spaces those would be the things I'd be interested in understanding y the other thing is that you already have two restaurants in that immediate area which speaks volumes for your desire to put another one there I don't think we're overloaded with restaurants in any way and I think that it's it would be the perfect place if you want to know the truth and if the hotel with the hotel being approved right next door yeah well he seems to have vanished in the in the wind what is what is the property immediately to the north on the same side of the road that's the hotel the hotel that hotel we that show in the house that's gone that little oh oh right fair enough okay that's empty still on the map okay all right that's then actually there's and directly across the road there's just business right yeah oh yeah I know there's there's is a ranch that's in Northampton that may be able to see it but is it directly across yeah know it's farther south yeah yeah but that's the only residence okay no fair enough it's good spot good in and out y as I do have any other questions for us that if we can't answer them just out of personal interest like arcade games as well or just just pinball yeah I do I I will have I mean my passion is pinball but I will have some arcade games I've been doing a informal poll if anyone wants to share with me what their favorite ones are because I want to have daytime birthday I missed it I want to have daytime I want to hear it I want to have daytime birthday parties and I pinball is not really kids little kids what I mean and they don't really go for pinball um so I'll have some of the classic things like ski ball or a basketball throwing game and some kind of video arcade game too what what did I not hear I'm just remembering uh said Galaga yeah I said Galaga no remembering so it'll be there there was a a pizza joint in the center of Northampton on the corner of masonic Street and Main Street run by the visus family when I was growing up and they had a twers sitdown Pac-Man machine nice you could put your food your drink on the glass top controls are right there man that was and then two players so the the screen would flip wow that was top that was A1 gaming technology of the day if you want to relive that they at least have a Donkey Kong table at quarters okay you can go go play it have an original 78 asteroids sit down at my house working wow anyway we you should hold tournaments in your house we should have meetings in his house I me all right awesome well I'm assuming you're gonna come in for next month then is that your target yeah we'll talk about it and you know put together a plan um we have some still some design work to do um I assume we do some renderings for the exterior so you can get for what that's going to look like and um anything else lighting parking Etc will include that actually one of the other things adjusting from the photo and I don't know how much control the developer would have over it but that tree at the corner of the building y yeah I'd like to learn more about its fate it's a nice little birch tree but it might need to go we can move it's big that's that's an operation oh that's you know and that's the other thing is our design guidelines do speak to Landscaping to some extent and just have big blank bear concrete or pavement isn't necessarily um yeah encouraged there's planting beds all across the front so I'm sure that would be incorporated into the design yep cool thanks all right yeah great thank you very much yeah thanks board is supportive yeah it does is in approval of the preliminary I'm going to start saving my [Laughter] quarters all right thank you thanks so much for coming in thank you I think that you got a pretty positive response here um that's a great idea I love that yeah we'll just have to see yeah like like said what the butters concerns are and and take that well you know Peter will come in and complain about something welcome night nice meeting you all right so next item on the agenda is the ad bylaw update um we as in we as uh Doug myself and Andrew and Bella and Bella can't couldn't be here tonight she's um out of town for uh death in the family so she's traveling and dealing with that so um but in over the course between last meeting and this meeting we met with attorney Mullen in order to prepare the Adu bylaw update so that we could have a public hearing for it next month um in order to get it on the town meeting uh warrant so we were trying to finalize this and there are a couple qu outstanding questions we have that we wanted to discuss the board um there's a couple different documents here so looking for that the one that's landscape here that says proposed res revisions that that is this is the one that's the draft and then the one that's in portrait there with some red commentary is Doug responding to Tom's edits Tom is Our Town Council and then Tom responded in these red red comments so I just wanted to make sure you had context for that yeah and then um one if you had any questions and then two I would want to bring forth the kind of things we needed to to debate and discuss in order to finalize this one of the first things that comes up if I may go for it I want to set up a hypothetical situation someone has a 1.4 acre lot property um they only have 200 ft of Frontage so it only has enough Frontage for a single residential lot they have a right to build an Adu let's say they build it according to the specifications they build it out back they then create a Condominium Association and condo eyes both the house and the and the Adu enabling them to sell them separately do we care about that well are you need to do are you talking about enough Frontage for two two buildings no no saying no I'm not talking about dividing the land I'm saying yeah they condo the land and they sell the there's case law which says that no zoning bylaw can regulate ownership of a property I'm summarizing but um and that's what the attorney brings up in uh oh the comment halfway down the first page uh CHR General V City and Newton yeah um I was originally trying to like say no you can't subdivide the property and sell the Adu separately but honestly even if they did that a 650 or 700 square foot home on a very small plot of land is only going to sell for a certain amount of money a conduis Adu is going to sell for even less because it doesn't come with the land it doesn't come with the land and there's other fees and owner of ownership attached at that point it still becomes an a a more affordable way to create equity for a young family or for a senior to maintain Equity um so that I I'm up in the air about it yeah actually was speaking to someone who's younger like my age about you know the adus and they're like yeah I understand the concept of it but now you're creating a I think I mention brought this up at the last meeting but like you're creating a house that property that has you know might be worth 500,000 and now they can put an Adu on it and now it's worth 800,000 and what are you actually helping here like and then you selling a when they to sell they're going to sell this $800,000 property that just makes it less affordable for people to get to home ownership if that's a goal that someone wants how I guess my question to you Doug would be so I don't really I don't really care if yeah there's a condation of that person I'm not sure that I do either I guess my question to you is how do you see the intention of what we're trying to do here how do you see that perverted by the condation as you as you call it I'm not even sure well of the I mean is I mean how does it how does it become something that we that we don't see happening that that that would be a negative so initially I had the same initial knee-jerk reaction to the idea of a condo isation of of an Adu as I did to the state's regulations that says you can't mandate ownership like owner occupancy I'm like well why not you we should be able to do that that's what we want we but we can't do that um so with the with the cond the first thing I said is oh I don't want this to be a way for just some developer to grab a house drop an Adu and then sell them both and make money um but ultimately if you take that house you condo it and you build an Adu you condo it you're selling two properties that have less value than the original property would or then you know the the structures on the original dwelling so it still becomes a lower Market value a lower selling point and still helps to make it slightly more affordable so I'm personally I don't have a problem with the idea of condo isation at this point yeah I think I think it kind of roundabout comes back to the goal regard regardless of the intention right 750 foot condo even if it's a separate unit is only going to sell at a condo price which still in this area is 300,000 or less that's pretty damn even we cared we can't care with with that discussion my thought is I don't think that we as a board well me as a member of the board that that bothers me yep it's been ruled it's been ruled if it's a way mandate owners if it's a way around to get cheaper housing on the market that is not just rental then great um kind of related to that does Hatfield has Hatfield adopted a zoning bylaw that prevents time share of any residential property no I don't believe so was one adopted in Edgar toown specifically to avoid someone from buying a residential house and then selling ownership shares in that house to get around the idea of it turning into a hotel similarly like we don't have an Airbnb restriction short rental don't have anything like that on the books yet really like and item and so time share I just keyword searched it no there's nothing okay fair enough right it's something that we could keep an eye on um and if it becomes an issue it becomes an issue yep um there was a couple of other things that we wanted to bring to the board there was a question around the adus so it was like if the if there's a lot that already has a house that already has an apartment on it or basically already has two dwellings right and it's like a pre-existing non-conforming it's already been there for Forever by WR I'm going to make hopefully I got this right by right they're allowed to have another Adu because it or no we clarified that um I think we clarified that it's if [Applause] there's well and I think honestly and it's probably going to be tested in court eventually the affordable homes act specifically says on any single family zoned property as soon as you have two dwelling units it's no longer a single family property if it's zoned for single I don't even know what single family zoning is that doesn't even make sense to me that's not a classification that's anyone uses we use residential we use large you know and dense residential we don't use single family zoning so I don't know what that means the only thing I can interpret it to mean is on any lot where there's only a single family property and Adu is allowed by right that's basically what I understand but if they already have something already there they're not allowed another one by right or they come to us for their okay so here's here's a a question my house has an in has an accessory apartment not an Adu per se but an accessory apartment that's been there for 40 years could that property then have another Adu on it I think that's GNA that's what we're talking about on the second page is an ad can be within the building can be attached to build Adu can be sear Adu is just concept is it considered a multif family is it considered ad you have one Adu which is or or you have a two unit dwelling right either way that whether or not you can get have an Adu by right is I think I don't think we have guidance on that yet okay we don't know right I'm just you I'm not not about to do that but to say but I'm just you know thinking if somebody is in my situation but has a little more property you know I I couldn't put it anywhere cuz I have a swamp in front of my house but one of the one of the other questions it's kind of relates to this where someone has a principal dwelling and they have a a guest house or whatever that they've been renting out for years it's been there for years it's pre-existing non-conforming at this point I was getting yeah by the law basically says that provided it meets the definitions of an Adu it's an Adu and now it's allowed by right and I I was trying to put in something that says well sure it's allowed by right but what if it's not really a properly built Adu what if it's a converted chicken coupe with only one door going in and not a proper bathroom or something like that um isn't there some minimum specification to certify that it's an actual dwelling certificate I see from the building department wouldn't that be a thing well that's that's what I kind of suggested is that you know provided it get has a CO or can get a then it's your Adu and you're fine and congratulations be a piece whatever but bless the idea the actual construction right yeah that's Kyle's thing but if it's still literally just a chicken coop with somebody put a bed in it that's not an Adu that's a chicken coop with a bed that's a chicken coop with a bed and that's not a habitable structure um doesn't automatically get I would love us to go through town because every Adu is another dollar sign on the assessor tax rolls I mean that's always a good thing so the other questions we have to ask are are we do we need to address adus on duplexes in any way because right now if it's a duplex you're allowed with it's a similar question but if you're already have a duplex or multif family or whatever would we allow also an extra ad you now on any single family dwelling zone property and AD you shall be allowed by right one Adu one Adu shall be allowed by right that's the state law yep it's a duplex on a even on a residential lot is that a single family zoned dwelling lot right I think we'll yeah that I don't know that that's been answered anywhere right so we'll just leave it and because I would be more inclined of like I don't want to have to do this again at the next town meeting too so if we just I I think the less is more is a good idea um we yeah if you want a second Adu kind guessing what single zoned means yeah it's yeah if you want an Adu and you you know otherwise meet the qualifications great fantastic go to the building inspector get your permit yep single family zone is just any Zone that will accept single family J be a mixed use area that will you know so that's your it's telling about any of the zones you right so then in that case property that has a special by special permit a 4unit townhouse they have a right to put an Adu on that if that's what they're saying any single family Zone which we know isn't a Zone isn't a common Zone yeah it's not a common zone so so so yeah so it would have to be it would have to be anywhere that you could build a single family house happens to be and and if you happen to be able to build a townhouse there too then it seem to me that that would be the insinuation of the language right yeah because right now we allow we allow um up to six units in one building so it would seem to me that that that they could also then add an extra an Adu but it just would have to be with be small and fit within the it would have to fit all the all the setbacks and and area part of the definition of an Adu is that the Adu may not exceed the smaller of 900 square ft or 1 half the floor area of the principal dwelling on the lot so if you've got a dup what's the principal dwelling I I think it would by default be the the larger of the two the larger of the two she's talking about you know a building with six res two or three or four or five units or whatever I would all exact same size what if it's a house that was split all up would you consider it the house to be the anyway so these are the conversations that some judge at some appeals court is gonna have to have amongst themselves and his peers it's not for us to decide we the the zoning by law as is written provides for an Adu by right with certain conditions like okay yeah it needs to be set back from the road it needs to be more subdued than the principal dwelling if it can't meet that you come to the planning board for a site plan review show us what you want to do and show us why you want to do that we go you know yeah that looks pretty good but because let's put some trees here let's put some shrubs there let's make sure that the parking is behind the building not in front go have fun get them out you know we the goal is still to say yes to the Adu and we have process in the bylaw that says on a lot where there's already an Adu you can apply for a special permit for a second and that's where we pile on additional parking rigs uh designs Rader setbacks whatever we want to do but that's that's there and that's permitted by the state law I'm glad you teed that up because those are like the rest of the outstanding questions that I want has to do with the special permit right like okay do we want to require site plan review for all adus or just the ones that are more ones that like right that might like you're saying might need to be in the front of the H in front of the primary dwelling or that's a weird line to draw we only want to review things in the front right well the the Adu RS that we've drawn up say um adus shall be considered an accessory use and shall be allowed by right in all residential districts provided that the following stands are standards are met that it's the only Adu on the lot that it complies with all existing setbacks for the zone that um an addition yeah we say in addition to an existing habitable structure as an Adu is permitted um the Adu Subs uh subordinate to the principal dwelling in that it'll be placed further back on the public way or it'll be lower in height than the principal dwelling or and then now you're prohibiting things in front what's that that's prohibiting things no no it's if it meets these criteria you go and get your building permit right these are these are criteria that can be measured with a ruler a tape measure a plan um and then it says on the next page what page are you on just uh three of five of the landscape format um the I initially thought a variance and then it went into special permit and I don't agree with special permit I think it should be site plan review and it should be under the planning board's perview this is kind of outdated language um as a matter of fact Yeah you mentioned it please go to the second page of your comment the second page where it says D site planeview D site plan review if it doesn't meet all the requirements the building inspector refers it to the planning board the planning board conducts a site plan review and just basically we say okay you want to put it in front of the principal dwelling okay it's going to be fine there it's not going to cause any harm to the neighbors or any reasonable impact to the neighborhood that's fine but we might ask them to put some shrubs or yeah you can condition approval through site plan review if you want to um you can't deny their when it comes to site plan review you can't deny so we're talking about if you go down King Street uh almost to um Hatfield Street on the right hand side there's a house that set backways and then they put an Adu of some sort in front of it attached to the house you know what I'm talking I think so yeah it that they and they just they built it about two years ago they built the front part on it's lower than the house because the house is on a little there there a little rise there it's lower than the house it's in front and it's not blocking anything so if somebody wants to do that here how do we respond is it okay to put it in front of the house the build the building inspector would refer the proposal to us we do a site plan review we'd say no the plan looks fine okay but then then what's the point of the same sight plan review if we're just going to say yes we have to say you have to say yes right well that's why stick your nose in if you if it's a rubber stamp right it's a waste ofie unless because the site plan review notifies a Butters when it well only different in here it's written that it doesn't have to notify a Butters and and you can't let a Butter's objections to an Adu can't stop it it can't stop it that can't be relied upon for denial right the only thing that we could do is like like I said put some trees here right make suggestions we can condition it with those types of things but you can't yeah stop it as subject to additional restrictions as may be imposed by the municipality I mean if you want to remove the criteria entirely and just make a flat rule that says an Adu shall be allowed as an accessory used to any single family dwelling period I'm not sure that I would object to that yeah especially if the slight plan well seems to me having all these Criterion that don't necessarily I mean if if it's by right and then we have all these Criterion all I yeah the state gives us just a little bit of wiggle room right here right additional restrictions may be imposed by the municipality included but not limited to that's the important part additional size restrictions restrictions on short-term rental uh you know as long as you don't unreasonably restrict the creation of an accessory Val it's not a shortterm so it's like you have to pass them but you have some like what what if there's like this this historic home right somewhere right around here and someone wants to put an ad you that's modernist hell popped right in front of it we punt it to a story they can't really do anything have the ability to regulate it yeah they don't have anything to regulate it but like that's an example of something like that right like a lot of these mo more modular type of adus do look a little more modern it doesn't look like we're allowed to say now I think think I think you leave the language as as as as put and then and allow for the site what's that and allow for the site plan review yeah for the things that are like there's a lot of things I think that are that are going to have to uh to to morph and I would I would side on being able to have some say whether or not it'll stand up that we have that say long term suest i' like to keep it in in the i' like as we look at it I think I'd like to keep that in our court if we can I think and hopefully and then hopefully be able to support it legally down the road right it would it would prevent halfhazard construction well I think I think given the example of of throwing an Adu out on Main Street in front of the safia Smith house by right is you know I mean yeah that's that's not which could happen if we take you know at least we would have some semblance of a process that we would have to go through as as it's written so I kind of like it like that I think it also puts the the uh the onus on the owner to understand what he's as that he or she is asking for and by saying there's a sight plan review I think people would be more prepared when they came if we say the site plan review is part of this and you know we're going to do we have to have a s sight plan review and the site plan review would be if it doesn't if it doesn't meet these other things right if it does meet these things they don't have to come to us at all it's the building inspector like the building inspector like oh this is might be an issue at least if nothing else it triggers a conversation right this might the the idea of a site plan review might get triggered for some and using an example of a friend who owns a house right here on Main Street he has a a back garage that's about two feet off the property line it's been there forever if he decided to tear that down and put an Adu there instead he'd go to the building inspector and the building inspector says n you're too close to the property line but I'm going to forward this to the planning board we could then look and say you're replacing an existing structure with another structure you're not going to increase the the the the non-conformity you're not moving it closer to the line you're going to put it in the same footprint the garage is behind the house the neighbors you know have expressed no objection good off you go that that simple even though the new Adu would actually be in violation of the of the setback rules we would say no you're you get to rebuild mgl chapter 48 Section 3 the new structure shall not be more non-conforming than the existing that's fine that would be another example exle think it's just like to also help give the building a Spector some cover for decisions that might be a little like yeah on the sketchy y um was there anything else um so the the last piece that is a good followup from this conversation is so there's technically there's nothing stopping someone from having a second Adu also on their property right just is lot size right yes and no um state law says that a town shall provide a special permit process for a second Adu on a lot we don't have a choice we have to consider a second Adu by special permit but the special permit is not sight plan review and that we can reject it yes correct it can be denied yes so that's it's not a by right it is by permission and it can be denied and we're all I think that's appropriate yeah I agree okay I just wanted to highlight that as well is there any other site plan review criteria that we would want to consider that would be referred to us or that we'd want to say things need to be met in order for it to be by right or do we get enough there so the criteria starts you with item number one at the bottom of the second page there 1 Adu or you talking about the second I'm talking about sorry going back to 1 Adu it says on the second page here the Adu standards if it meets all of these standards it's by right and if not if it's a questionable thing that'll come to us for site FR and review are there anything else we want to in add into the standards or should we be considering in the standards that then for it to come for what we are looking for I like it as written it's it it's specific enough it's all but it's all adjudicatory so yeah we can interpret it on a case-by Case basis but again site plan review is the answer is yes figure out the best way to get there so okay and then one of the other questions from the attorney is do we want to require s plan review for all adus and I think we say no absolutely not I think we're taking like the middleof the road approach for a lot of this right like the reason like we're not trying to be too restrictive we're not trying to be overly permissive like we're trying to be considerate of like these one-off things that could really impact a neighborhood in a negative way but also I openly supportive of to use so we have to be accepting of the fact that this is this is happening right and it's not very far off from what we already approved last year this is our opportunity to put big yep but also not being too narrow that we'd have to change this again next year when there's more guance to come we took kind of a a smallish step last year we're taking another step this year yeah think small steps are the way to go as opposed to ruffling feathers anym than we're going to anyways although the state kind of handed that down to us so um the exist we have cover the proposed changes still preserve the shortterm rental restriction does it or I don't think we can that here yeah it's not intended to not be used as either a short-term rental or a time share property or a bed and breakfast a Hatfield special little you know where are you reading from I'm sorry well in the landscape page 305 305 okay thank you all right y shall not be and the attorney said all we can do is an ad shall not be used as which is fine it's the best of verbs for that yeah so you can't bed and breakfast it you can't time share it and you can't is whatever 64g section one says you can't shortterm yep because the intention is to try and create home longterm housing residence problem res not commercial so that's a good little flavor and it fits Within you know what minor little margins the towns are allowed so just to open a little window into the complete opposite side of the coin the town of Edgartown which I used to work for they're going to be considering a zoning bylaw change in April that says every residence in town shall be permitted to be used as a short-term rental by right they want to commercialize their residences their neighborhoods also a much different Community it's a it's a vacation Community right but when you can get $155,000 a week for a short-term rental for six months out of the summer go stay at Aunt mabes or something well this doesn't why would you ever rent to somebody long term why would you ever bother giving somebody a chance to have be able to have a place to live there and then you don't have to deal with tenants rights and all that tenants you can shut the house down in the winter and winterize it not heat it your insurance cost might go up in the summer but goes way down in the winter so that's yeah and then I mean that's the other thing too is like the Adu shall not be used as the short-term rental but what's stopping someone from living in the U and then they rent out they short-term rental the priv well that's that's true now right right which is fine now yeah it's just we don't I guess it's like the motivation behind someone building an Adu shouldn't be to for an Airbnb it should be a more long-term rental situation is what is what the spirit of this is think of few houses along the other side of the street over here you put an Adu halfway back on the lot with some nice landscaping and a little sitting patio that looks out over the river you get a couple hundred bucks a night right that's could be pretty lucrative that's not what we want to do right I sorry I like it I don't think that's what we want to do somebody correct me if I'm wrong no I like that phrase and I mean that's something if this is the whole point of how having the public hearing on this next next month if there's a contingent of listeners I expect they'll be that want to come in and have push on that they they can and we can talk about it all right so I think we're pretty good to go uh in finalizing these comments and having something ready to publish in The Gazette and having a public hearing next meeting okay I'm pretty I'm pretty I'm pretty confident that we could address and aage any concerns that come to us next month I yeah I think we've definitely um done our due diligence and it's not it's a lot of it is out of our hands and the few little pieces that we do have control over we I think agree it nicely so next at our next meeting we're GNA have a public hearing on this and we're going to be doing the site plan review likely the site plan review on the Starlight potential restaurant so be prepared for a little more of an active meeting interactive meeting than what we've had in the past couple months are we all set with ad by update any other comments all right the next item on the agenda the other thing we've been working on no I just want to say thank you for the work yeah man I actually wanted to say thank you we're riding your coattails on this yeah no I I appreciate the support and the feedback and you know I'm happy to be slapped down if I'm overstepping at any place but I do appreciate the support for that yeah and um I also want to say I support um want to thank Our Town Administrator who's been also active in these conversations as well um and he was here earlier but had to step out for another meeting so just wanted to say that as well um and similarly because he also helped draft this uh with Bella's support this uh dlta which is something something technical assistance I forget local technical divisional loc yeah local technical assistance um this is a pot of money that the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission has to Dole out every year for projects and so you have to apply with a one pager of how you would like funds to how You' like to request for funds they don't need a money amount they kind of like figure that out for us which is kind of interesting but based on what we were talking about at our last meeting um we talked to pvpc about what we were thinking because the whole thing is like the strategy around what pot of money what Grant to use what thing for is like a is a question because there's no like right or wrong answer it's kind of like what do we want to prioritize now when owing the funding streams and that kind of thing so where we landed was um because they help pbpc helped us with our comprehensive plan they're invested in helping us see implementation of that and so with that they kind of recommended that we put One support for um the implementation committee whatever that's called the action committee whatever to help convene this committee and start and just like help set up the structure to move to get the committee off the ground and running to help implement the comprehensive plan which yes touches things that the planning Bo under planning boards purview but like all different boards and committees have different responsibilities and um projects potentially under implementation of the comprehensive plan so that's going to be one piece of the request and then the two pieces of the requests that are directly related to us is updating our housing production plan um we are asking for minimal assistance for the housing production plan based on the fact that a lot of the research was just done with so like our our housing production plan is from 2015 so um I'm sure we using that plus all the data from the open space um Recreation plan that just got finalized or is in the process of being finalized and the updated comprehensive plan we have a lot of of the data and the uh makings of an updated housing production plan so we would do most of that in house um Bella and Andrew and I'm sure the US on the board and whomever else wants to be a part of this housing kind of plan committee or you know set ad hoc committee um I know that there's a few people who worked on the last one that we could invite and ask if they would want to be a part of this this one So the plan is to work on that and do that this year which shouldn't be that much of a lift and then the big thing that would impact us the most and it would be the beginning kickoff of a longer term project is for them to do a diagnostic of our zoning map and our bylaws so what that means is going over our map and our B bylaws tooth and comb and suggesting like where there are deficiencies where there are rooms for improvement but not making those recommendations yet it it would just be like flagging the things that our issues so that then with a subsequent round of funding either through DTA next year or through State funding technical I forget the name of the grant that's open this Summer that we could apply for grant funding there to then keep moving along and updating our zoning bylaws of map that would probably happen in the next couple of years after that I'm fully supportive of the diagnostic review that's basically them looking at our zoning bylaws with an objective eye and saying these things are problems these are things you're going to want to address and that gives us a to-do list we would then as we take on the zoning revision we would then prioritize those things um in order to annually make some changes bring them before town meeting slowly build up confidence with the residents saying okay they're doing some good things they're cleaning things up simplifying things sharpening the edges if you will um but it starts with a diagnostic review so fully supportive of that that's all got that's the one that I'm the most excited about as well um because it's also them pointing things out that are flags and then us thinking taking recommendations from the comprehensive plan and using those flags and taking things from the housing production plan and implementing and having them be the guides to how and why we update things the way we are GNA them so it's this is due on Friday and it just needed to be onepage narrative um and they recommended we meet with them ahead of time and we did so I I feel confident that we would get some of these hopefully all three of these things but definitely a couple of them funded and if they don't get funded um then we have uh State funding that we can apply for uh over the summer and the other thing is the state funding you need to have a certain requirement of Town Fund funding for that but the DTA funding can be that town funding so for example if we get these all funded and then we apply for the state funding and say we want them to do more with the with the diagnostic or whatever we could say the matches the DTA funding so it's like leveraging our F the grant funds what does DTA stand for oh that was we haven't figured out but it's technical assistance like division of local technical assistance directed te oh I'm not it's like yeah local Regional planning commissions get the money from the state and they divvy it up how they see fit they get the LTA funds and then they use it to fund the and I think we they we would find out if we get this by like March so it's a fairly quick turnaround yeah and so and you have to use it within the FIS within the calendar year so these are all projects that we would have done this year which is exciting and if they can't get all done this year then we would apply for them for again yeah we could y y do you need a vote or a motion or anything I mean I just wanted yeah I mean I would I guess yeah I would like a vote on if we feel excited about not excited that would be a funny thing to on I move that the planning board is feeling ex but no like I mean I also want you know you all to like you support this I know it's something we talked about and so I just want to make sure that we're making the decision that the board want question rhetorical because I think it's because I think it's I mean it's obvious that we support it it's well written yeah and um Bella took a first stab at it and then Andrew wrote it up and got it to one page it serves our purposes and I think it'll probably uh be very effectual does the order uh reflect a priority I know that's a good question not an alphabetical order this is the order they came out as we were writing or they actually reflect if they're going to deny us one you want it to be the third one no I do not I want that to be the first one parag I think the third one should be the first one there it's just this phrase uh we want support from them in Staffing and Consulting with a newly formed I think that could be actually turned into something from in Staffing Consulting right no but you never call somebody say I need support in Staffing and Consulting with right it's like what do you want yes so it would be like support 4 the newly formed yeah a new board is SP and we need support you know this will be we need help to support this board or whatever we need staff help to support this newly one board we would like staff support for they going to shoot something down it's like the most nebulously phrase stuff is easy to reject because like it's this just they're asking for smoke so I don't know what this is say but you do I would think You' want to order them in the way that like which one can you live without which two can you live without that's the way they get approved and disapproved well I think definitely the diagnostic review should be first because that's the one that I think the second one is like the easiest thing to do so we move move it down to three um well me just you just asking for a little bit of just publishing work you know we need data need some science work here not are you asking the pbpc to do the diagnostic review or to assist the town in doing the diagnostic review oh I want them to do it so then change the lead to consult or I'm sorry to conduct yeah or Del to deliver our third ask is for the pvpc to conduct deliver or conduct y yeah a diagnostic review uh maps to identify which bylaws to update in order to achieve our action plan goals yes yep yeah this initial view would then give us concrete a ask for the next round of state's Planning and Zoning grants yep the rest of that's solid yeah okay so we want this one to be first we want we're just going to P put it on top and then the second one will be implementation committee and the third one will be housing production plan yeah okay the hppp it sounds like we're just asking for a little bit of you know more data to backup and graphic will work which you know can get expensive yeah but then it's like you know we also want help with more technical right it's more like giving us maps of things I got yeah that's good cool yep all right well we'll be ready to submit that by the end of the week exciting and again thank you to Andrew and Bella for that um and that concludes the things on our agenda except one little update from me that just came through um I've been I I've been wanting to I mentioned at a previous meeting too reach out I reached out to the Habitat for Humanity and they finally we finally connected just wanting to establish a relationship there they had like somewhat of a relationship with the previous chair um but nothing really came to fruition there but they um mentioned that they're you know excited by the opportunity that we're reaching out to them but how it normally works is either like they find work with just directly with a private land owner who might want to like sell to them at a discounted rate and this town kind of stays out of it or the town can get more involved in like supporting with CPA funds helping them purchase a lot or help them subsidize some of the construction costs and so considering we have used zero doar of our CPA money that is earmarked for housing 10% of what's in our pot is earmarked for housing which I found out is ju just shy of $300,000 we would be using we have almost two $3 million in CPA funds that we can use 10% of that is restricted to housing but then 7 and 10% is restricted to other things but 70% is unrestricted and can be used for other for any for anything in the categories yeah right so we could use more than just the 300,000 but there's 300 basically almost 300,000 that has not been touched has not been used and can be used towards housing so I flagged for them a parcel that I thought might be interesting because they're looking for ones that have town that have sewer and water that are already cleared relatively flat um and that you know would be a good space for a home they do small scale which I think is something that would fit with the nature of Hatfield meaning they don't really do more than five or six units um so they said if you wanted to do a you know a giant cult you know development that's not us call Valley CDC or somebody else like but if for oneof couple units here or there that's some on a particular parcel that we think find interesting totally reach out to them um and so i g i I did that and they have a committee that reviews Parcels so I sent them their way Kyle building inspector said that he has contact information for the land owner of the parcel that I was talking about and he's going to reach out to them and see if they'd be interested in that but just flagging that you know that would be helpful a unit or two of affordable housing at a time would be helpful on us trying to make our way towards 10% affordable housing in town when right now we're at 2.8% and the state is asking and requiring and some um with question is where are we going to put where are we going to put these houses well right that's why it's a parcel here and a parcel there was Habitat for Humanity you do like one a year they don't just come in and bang out a bunch of building very slow so that's why I feel like that's would be a perfect first step in helping build affordable housing and hfield is getting a relationship with something like them because we're as a municipality we're not in any position to be like building affordable housing right so at least right now um and there might be more that comes out with the housing production plan and things like that more tactics and strategies because they did ask like oh are there like areas in town that you'd want to see this and da and I was like we're not there yet that will come hopefully in the next couple years with the housing production plan and then updated zoning and us being more proactive and general um around housing and our zoning so um I thought it was a good initial conversation we I just wanted to get like on their radar because they haven't done anything in Hatfield but they have done a lot in surrounding towns so the other thing that they brought up is that they are looking because they serve Hampshire and Franklin County they are looking for warehouse space and they said we'd love to be in Hatfield or weightly in that area on the 510 Corridor there's got to be an option for that so I referred them to um the the former food bank property there's land there's property for leas warehouse space for lease the food bank property Myers produce and I just threw that out there I also they also said that the state is they're looking for letters of support from municipalities to state to give them earmarked funds to help them secure warehouse space and they asked us um if we would write a letter of support in the state earmarking it and so this is long story of me getting to the point of asking y'all do you feel comfortable if we I wrote a letter support saying that the half field planning board supports you know the state supporting the Habitat for Humanity and finding a warehouse or fund helping them get funding for uh Warehouse support that AB yeah I'm down with that okay cool and I would encourage you to seek a similar letter from the Town Administrator Andor select board yeah I was going to reach to reach out to Andrew after I talked to you guys about this right even one at a time is small steps steps yep and you know like we help them with a letter they'll remember us when when you're looking for a place when they're looking for not just for the warehouse but hopefully to build a house also yeah so okay great and you know General call out to y'all and the public like if you know of a someone that's willing to to help out and sell a lot to Habitat for Humanity um to help increase our affordable housing stock in Hatfield we would appreciate it and there would probably be some toown CPA support if it was at a reasonable uh so are we looking to not create developments we're not we're not not trying to it's I think it's a that's a bigger impact on the community to do that and so I and we haven't really done the due diligence in determining where we would want to Target that type of development and so I think we would be as a board and as a town it would be a little premature for us to be um trying to solicit a large scale thing right now I do think it's something we it we should be doing right in the near future and creating with an in my mind an open space development bi an open space development where the lots are smaller more um quotequote affordable but you know I'm thinking of the boil Farm behind my house so yeah these are all things that I don't think we're I I don't know there yet yeah um there needs to be thought putting thought putting behind of where we would you would want to increase development so just a really quick comment on that idea um I don't think anybody's looking to build a Hampshire Heights in Hadfield or Florence Heights in Hatfield we're not looking to develop low income housing low income compressed really high high density housing and our zoning does really for that anyway right uh we're we're not looking to create just a generic subdivision um I would be very interested in any developer that proposes a clean Pathway to home ownership um for younger couples or folks starting out or even older folks who are looking to downsize um I think that's the sort of middle missing middle if you will in home home owner home ownership we've got plenty of houses that are going up that are seven and eight and N9 $100,000 and there are Apartments all over the place of course folks can't really afford that you need like thousand square foot Ranch you need something that's a step above the $1,800 a month apartment y but isn't going to cost somebody $4,000 a month in a mortgage payment right um and that's going to be between three and $400,000 Market sale price yep the only way to do that is to have have it be a smaller house on a smaller lot where the lot or the development is largely subsidized yep and and I think there's relationship to be made with like Valley CBC or like some de developer that is more of a nonprofit and in heart and spirit um that is going to try to work with the community and meeting those needs um as as long as their goal is geared towards self- ownership not towards development of a bunch of housing that we're just going to rent out in perpetuity landlords right yeah y so my house I think that just needs to be there's a more we need to be more proactive in that and I don't think we're ready to be that Pro so my house is a modular house yep and I think that's that's another option that's a really good option for affordable housing I paid way less than it would have cost this stick built our house by by far and it's so much faster a basic modular house is $360,000 right that's before delivery that doesn't include land that doesn't include a foundation a modular Adu so like is only $ 250,000 so that's what you're but that's like 800 square feet right so that's what I mean you need like that that something small ranch type or small Cape style home there's no easy answers and there's no easy that's the whole thing is like that's the why a problem around the country is like it's they want to look at the government to help but the government can only do so much it's the private land owners and the market it's like it's there's no like Silver Bullet for that so with that thank you everyone anything else that you'd like to bring up now otherwise I'm hungry I want to go home I mov we adjourn all right our next is uh Wednesday uh February 5th like I said we're going to be having the PO the site plan review likely site wh review for The Starlight restaurant um and pinball play Pinball and pizza and uh we will also be having a public hearing on our proposed updated Adu viot changes so there's a motion on the floor come right in bushy tails righte and bushy tails and there's a motion on the floor to adjourn seconded I hi hi all right January 8th is adjourned at 7:09 thank you good night thank you