okay um good evening Hatfield welcome to the April 2nd 2025 meeting of the Hatfield select board this is a special meeting um that is a hearing um regarding a member of the Housing Authority I'm going to go ahead and call the meeting to order and as usual I'm going to open the meeting by reading our
public participation policy the Hatfield select board welcomes everyone to its meetings and all other public meetings of the town of Hatfield all regular and special meetings of the boards and Committees of the town of Hatfield shall be open to the public and shall conform to the open meeting law executive
sessions are closed to the public and will be held only as prescribed by the statutes of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts it is important to recognize that the open meeting law affords the opportunity to listen to the proceedings but not necessarily participate during meetings of the select board an attempt will be made to
find a balance between hearing from members of the community in conducting the required business of the Hatfield select board um and just a further notice this meeting tonight will be recorded um so because this is an open
session do we read this executive session no it's not necessary because we're not going into executive session okay um so uh we again as I stated the um this meeting is specifically um a
hearing to discuss the conduct of a member of the Housing Authority specifically Mr Christopher Smith who is joining us here tonight um I want want to say a couple of things before we get started first of all um this hearing will be conducted differently than our regular select board meetings um at the
direction of Our Town Council first and foremost this process will be fair to all parties um the select board will call witnesses who will take an oath before they begin speaking Witnesses may present exhibits to the select board the select board will ask them questions but
we do not need to allow for cross-examination at the conclusion of our Witnesses Mr Smith will be given the opportunity to defend himself introduce exhibits and offer his own Witnesses who will also take an oath once all Witnesses have had an opportunity to
speak I will close the public hearing and the board uh the select board will then deliberate an open session um so do either of you have any questions or anything before we get started or comments no I understand how this is going to work okay um so before
we call our first Witness I just want to State publicly that the select board has a responsibility to ensure that members of town boards committees and in this case authorities conduct themselves professionally and respectfully at meetings and in the commission of their
duties all members of boards committies and authorities should expect meetings to be efficient and productive and additionally towns people have a right to expect that they will be treated fairly and uh professionally by Boards committees and authorities um so
um as our first witness we would actually like to call Carol leaper to present the um letter once again to the select board but you do have to um we do have to do the oath um should so anybody who's speaking
should probably come up to the microphone um and so I would ask you to raise your right hand um and repeat after me um to swear or affirm that the testimony that you give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I
do so if you could just you know this hearing is as a result of a letter presented to us by the Hatfield Housing Authority which we thought it would be appropriate to present again at the beginning of this yes and did you just want me to read the letter from the chairperson yes uh to the Hatfield
select board dear members of the Hatfield select board I hope this letter finds you well the executive director of the Hatfield housing authority and the chairperson of the Board of Commissioners we are writing to formally request your intervention regarding the conduct of one of our board members Mr
Christopher Smith after careful deliberation the Hatfield Board of Commissioners has voted to send this letter to you requesting that the select board take appropriate action in addressing his failure to fulfill his duties as a commissioner it is with regret that I bring to your attention
the following concerns one failure to carry out the duties as a commissioner Mr Smith has not been fulfilling his responsibilities as a board member he has failed to attend many board meetings without providing prior notice or valid explanations for his absence despite
multiple attempts to contact him there has been no response to the correspondence which has hindered the functionality of the board and effective operation of the Housing Authority two breach of fiduciary duty as a board member Mr Smith has a fiduciary duty to
in the best interest of the housing authority and its residents his failure to engage in the board activities and his lack of communication indicate a disregard for this responsibility compromising the Integrity of the decision-making process
three violation of bylaws and policies Mr Smith's actions also appear to be in violation of the housing authorities bylaws and policies specifically those related to active participation in meetings responsiveness and engagement in the proper execution of his role
four qualifi qualification laps according to the executive office of Housing and livable communities eohc all Commissioners are required to complete mandatory State training Mr Smith has failed to meet this requirement within the time allotted
further questioning his ability to effectively serve on the board given the above points we respectfully request that the Hatfield select board take appropriate action which may include censure disciplinary measures or removal from the board in accordance with the applicable procedures outlined in state
and local regulations the Hatfield housing authority and its residents deserve a fully functioning board and Mr Smith's actions have compromised our ability to operate effectively we trust that the select board will consider this matter with the attention it requires and appreciate your prompt attention to
this issue should you require any additional information or documentation regarding this situation please do not hesitate to contact us thank you thank you for your time and consideration sincerely Cara leaper and Alex malanowski chairperson of the board
thank you chair I'd recommend um introducing us as exhibit a okay entering this record yes we'll enter that as um we also provided the track star um uh track star is the uh system
that the state uses to track the uh training the training is initially due upon 90 days of appointment um and then do every two years um the system automatically emails um the person when
it's due and then sends them a reminder email um and so he was uh emailed uh the initial invitation date was November 2nd of 2023 um gave him a deadline of September
16th of 2024 and it was uh not completed um as of this PR out was which was the day I presented this to you all which was within the last four or five days or week or so yeah it's still not completed it's still not completed correct
okay thank you we're we're gonna go enter that as exhibit B yeah that that we will enter that as exhibit B we'll get to you later we're going to I I outlined the proceedings I document is never we're going to get to you later I I outlined
how the proceedings are going to Chris you're going to have we're going to give you time in fairness we will but we're going to get through this and then we'll get to you okay I may suggest also one further question to the like would like to ask it about if uh there were any issues
that arose because of this conduct is when it comes to uh State review or or anything else yes as a uh we recently had our PMR the state comes in and conducts the performance man agement
review um and board members are required to do the training and the only finding that we had corrective action in was that um our board had not completed the certification and Mr Smith was the only board member that had not completed the certification so it was listed as a
corrective action on the uh Performance Management review by the state thank you thank you okay is that it I think so unless do you have any questions or I do not anything for Cara thank you thank
you um so as our second witness we'd like to call Alex malanowski who is joining us by telephone um Alex can you still hear us yep Alex is chair of the um Hatfield Housing Authority Alex um as I did with
Cara we're gonna have to ask you to take an oath um so we're gonna um assume you're raising your right hand yeah um and do you Ware or affirm that the testimony that you will give be will be the truth the whole truth and nothing
but the truth yes um so I mean from from my question for you Alex as the chair is if you want wanted to take an opportunity to um you know describe the at the the working atmosphere um with Mr
Smith the how the struggles when he wasn't appearing to meetings and then the struggles that there were when when he was at meetings um sort of giving you an opportunity to describe how um this has affected the Hatfield Housing
Authority um I'm with the during the time that Mr Smith was on the board um I noticed personally if you know
something there was a disagreement there was definitely tension on the board between all the board numbers um to me it seemed like there's a couple of our projects that didn't seem to go his way and he got upset
about it and we went in different ways that that shouldn't have went and as fulfilling his duty as a board member not showing up
when you know he didn't want I guess you could say or whatever his obligations were I don't know I can't say that he didn't want to show up I can't say he didn't have things going on because we're all human and we all have things going on in our life um the part
that bothered me was that you know I'm on the road six seven days a week and obviously as you guys can tell I'm currently on the phone because I'm stuck out in New York
um you know I did everything I could to be on the board or you know be there in order to have a quorum um and if I wasn't going to make it I I told the executive director whether I'm or whether it was Cara now
um you know the least he could have done was say Hey you know I got some things going on or you know I'm not going to be at the meeting tonight I have something I'm doing fine but there was no communication there was no nothing there
was no anything to anyone and mean the lack of fulfilling his job as a board member and I'm not gonna you know trash talk him because we all like I said we've all have stuff going on in our
lives and I I don't know what was going on but that was the part that was to me difficult to deal with because meetings and we wouldn't have a quum so we'd have to call a meeting and
you know you couldn't sign the the warrants you couldn't sign the bills you couldn't sign nothing because we didn't have the Quorum and luckily Diana stepped in and we were able to fill the Quorum when Mr Smith wasn't showing up
and his attitude was just kind of piss core about it and you know I and I'll bring it back to myself again you know I'd be getting out of work and I'd be up at midnight the night before and I'd still show up the meeting and have a
smile on my face and do what needed to be done and then go home but it was just the you know the arguing the and argument wasn't all the time it was just on stuff that we disagreed
on and I will say Mr Smith and I have had our had our differences but it was just it's difficult to work with someone like that on the board okay thank you um and I I noticed
in we we've got a lot of documentation here um going back years there were other times um so not just the recent absences but there were other times previously um going back I think as far as 21 and that
those absence were creating a problem so it isn't just the the recent ones yeah and I mean I I'll admit it first I mean I've definitely missed meetings before but it's you know for me it's work rated I you know I I drive FR for a living
it's not an easy job to fulfill it's if it was easy everyone would do it but the long hours and the long nights it's it's tough to do certain stuff and when I can be there it's great and when I'm not I usually try to see if I can call in or
you know at least be present somehow so I can you know fulfill the Quorum for the board in order to get you know the important stuff that needs to be signed or if there's something that needs to be voted on for a project at least we'll have a full you know full Quorum for
it great did you have any questions no I'm just trying to understand the timeline uh from October when Mr Smith missed the meetings how many members were on the
board at that time cuz originally there was five and then a couple left so did the absence was it only three that were on the board at that time or um he stopped going when I got
appointed so I was attending so there were three members there so I mean but there were but the if I don't know if you looked at the documents but there were absence problems going back years but in order to have a amount of five member board you need at least three three votes so yeah and at some points
it was just Judy and I maybe before I got back maybe before I got on yeah yeah yes before Diana got on excuse me sorry okay Greg anything but these absentee absences they they went on before that
though or is it just since it's been noticeable when there's only three members on the commission well in the documentation we got there's references to absences going back into 2021 and
um um he it's uh this is a in an email um where it appears he would boycott meetings based on disagreements so it may make sense to reference that that email with another that was we we'll we'll get to that yeah we'll get to that
well back to 2021 then anybody else have abs absences on the board I mean people get sick and you know I mean sometimes they can't make all the meetings so I mean I I'm just trying to be fair here if if one person didn't make meetings
that everybody else Miss meetings so I mean I'm just trying to understand that that's all yeah I mean I think In fairness Alex is pointing out that no you know nobody goes to all meetings um and but they these were usually not excused or
explained um anyone else have anything else for Alex no I'm anything else you want to add Alex I'm all set that was pretty much what I just had to say okay great thank
you I you're welcome to stay on I hope you do um so the next person I we we were hoping to be joined by Jenna has anyone reached Brena excuse me has anyone reached out is she running late I just emailed her again and have not heard
anything yet okay you heard anything um so I there is another current member of the Housing Authority here tonight Judy did you want to speak to this issue at all well if you want to do that you're going to have to come up we're going to
have if you could just introduce yourself Judy um Judy is a member of the Hatfield housing authority and a resident at Kaa wank so you have I'm going to have to ask you to raise your right hand swear or form that the testimony that you give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the
truth hey Andrew I got a quick question yes hey am I all set to go I just got to my yes sorry we just wanted to make sure he was good so I'm you know I I would ask you I guess the same question basically I asked Alex about um
you know the atmosphere at the meetings and your ability to conduct the business of the Hatfield Housing Authority basically I have the same answers is that you know when we had a a a threepers quorum and one person doesn't
show up makes things difficult to get anything done uh prior to that if there was a disagreement on a vote it would be very contentious um I you know have knowledge that certain things were sent to ethics and all different kinds of
backdoor stuff uh that would affect you know other members if they disagree you know that's just not the type of behavior that's required of any board member we all have to be able to agree to disagree to something um you know and
uh it's just it was it was very contentious our meetings would last two hours now they're down to 20 minutes and it's just all business we get it done and move on
okay anything Greg no thank you okay great um we are also joined tonight by two former members fairly recently former members of the Housing Authority I'm sorry Cara I just need to State something for the record is that okay
sure you're still under oath so come on up um I just want to State for the record I'm I'm actually here I'm on leave now so I just wanted to make it clear and on the record that I'm here as Cara leaper I'm not here representing the Housing Authority so thought it important that I state that for the
record thank you understood um so we do have um some former members of the Hatfield Housing Authority that um I'm assuming you're here because you'd like to speak tonight um Mr wils we'll have you come up
first you could just introduce yourself and then I'll administer the oath um John wils I'm from 277 West Street in North Hatfield and I am the former member of the Housing Authority I spent
the 12 years on the Housing Authority I was asked by the board of Selectmen uh to take a temporary position so they'd have a quorum back 12 well 12 more than 12 years ago now okay uh before we go go any further though I'm going to have to
administer an oath so if you would just raise your um right hand and swear form the testimony that you give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do okay I just want to you know like I said it's a temporary job I was said just uh go there for a year the
board of Selectmen asked me to come in at the time it was uh Ed lco Jeff Bole and I don't remember who the third one was uh asked me to serve out uh a vacancy they were having trouble getting quorums so I went on there I says I do
it and one of my former friends Stanley samansky was on the board too so he said s stay on for a little time and it ended up being 12 years but uh I just wanted to say our first six or seven years in
Authority was hum we we we got things done our our uh meetings were well run even though we did have some contentions with the former um director and the chair chairman myself uh we had we didn't see ID on every issue but we did
get along and that all changed shortly after Mr Smith won an election a right in election for 11 with 11 votes back in his five years ago he beat the former uh chairman of the Housing
Authority uh who thought he was going to be reelected he never got this paperworks in so he lost so Mr Smith decided to take the job from there you know I contact Ed Mr Smith right away and you know asked him you know if there
anything he needed we talked a little bit and he said see you at the next meeting so next meeting comes uh we had uh done some uh prepar work we had a new executive director was only there for
about a year Brena duat and uh we've asked her you know she worked uh 16 hours a week and one of the first requests from Mr Smith after saying he he he doesn't know where the record or wanted to know where records were and
you know he asked for 42 years of Records to so he could re review now the board doesn't have I didn't I had never seen 42 years of Records there of the Housing Authority but that was his first step he asked for 42 years of Records
minutes of the meetings corporate organizational charts uh stuff that happened in 1973 here it is in 2020 he wanted everybody to Keel over and give him all the information he was on a
mission he wanted to root out inefficiencies and different things that's going to want happen at the authority he said there was corruption here different things going on he says well hey whatever you want to do so he
he he was tough to work with very tough to work with uh I tried to he as soon as he was was uh appointed and because we lost our board member Stanley samansky passed away and we had some vacancies on the board and to say one thing uh people
don't go to you know all the meetings you know I had trouble getting quorums for years you know uh for different qus people that show up for me people were had different things in their lives they were doing uh and had problems with all I I missed one meeting in 12 years all
right and I tell you you know and that was because mostly because of a surgery I'd have but uh uh one of the things I wanted to wanted to do is want tried to keep Harmony and they elected me chairman so it was I didn't want to be there really I'll tell you I didn't want
to be there thought my career I had retired from the state and I was trying to wind down from the town but I just couldn't some of the projects that we had come up with we had developed a parking lot project that was the first thing uh that was a challenge to us we
had been in the uh planning St stages for three years on a parking lot project and Mr Smith came in and one of the first things he he did he felt that this parking lot should go behind the facility out in the open lot on our you
know we had land behind the facility he said we have to do we should disregard uh you know our planning three year and we had already secured the grant for uh developing a new parking lot and it was a substantial amount of money to do it and the park lot hadn't been done in 42
years so we we wanted to do it Mr Smith became a a roadblock and how he became a roadblock he didn't show up at one meeting after we had lost Stanley uh Buster samansky we didn't we there was only three of us on the board Alex myself and Chris Chris wouldn't show
didn't show up for three meetings in a row and one of the things we had to do we had to sign the contract with the contractor and we had to sign it with this you know State and one of the things Mr Smith insisted that we throw the whole thing out and start over from
scratch well you know couldn't do that so one of the things I did and uh he he had been going around town telling everybody the best place to put it is in behind behind the uh the facility what happened was uh he
kept saying this is the place we're going to put it they should go there it's more efficient we can we can have parking out back and we'll have more room for the tenants out front we'll have more par parking a parking space we only have 26 spaces or there's 44 units we didn't have enough parking you know
granted we knew that right along so one of the things uh he did he you know he's telling his friends and one of the things I didn't like about Mr Smith you know one of the one of the uh what you say UH responsibilities of of a housing authority and member is not
to get involved in day-to-day activities he would go down and go to the he's already said it in a minute he would go to lunch down with tenants down there and start talking to couple tenants you know saying they're going complain to him about things that weren't happening
at the authority you know we have an executive director an executive director by formal uh regulations has to run the day-to-day operation not the board and we we have a responsibility to hire the executive director so we we hired this
young woman Brena duat it was her first she was she was a uh worked at East Hampton housing and she was an administrative assistant over there and she was working both jobs part parttime in East hampon parttime and she was tremendous she was tremendous she helped
us bring up all the records up to date and I you know I have to give Smith Mr Smith credit he did help us on some of the things management plans and some of re re doing our uh bylaws but also Brena and I work together before Miss Mr Smith
got in to put in a tenant handbook for all the tenants we put the tenant handbook together we got it out there and it was one of the documents that still exists today but one of the things we we were sure and some of our management responsibilities were to
update the management plan and we didn't have it up to date you know and it takes a lot of time to do it I had worked with a prior prior uh director housing M Donna ped we had brought it up uh as much as we could it was mostly handwritten stuff that we wanted to do
but we never could get around to it at a meeting to to discuss it at length so uh but that was one thing but the parking lot thing it back the parking lot uh project that Mr Smith had had in his eyes you can't go there can't go there
you know everything's wrong uh so I had written the letter to uh the abuts that we didn't have a meeting but as a chairman and with the executive director I thought the abuts the property should notify that particular plan uh was being
proposed uh in in the town by a member that would put the uh parking lot behind the uh uh facility Well lo and behold uh we what just to speed up things we
we uh waited till Mr Smith wouldn't come to a meeting till another member of the was elected to the uh uh board so I felt the letter was appropriate and to this day I still felt appropriate we s sent letters out to all the abuts of the
property notifying that possibly the parking lot would go behind the town hall which would affect the people in their homes and uh after after that what happened is uh we did get a new member um Mike Hogan was
elected to a vacant seat Busters vacant seat and he became uh a valuable member he was a very very uh good member on you know one of our best best guys I've ever worked with on any board in this town and uh he came on board this first
meeting he had we had the responsibility we were under the gun to S sign a contract with the contractor and with the state to go ahead with the park and lock project a three-year program that we worked on to get for three years Mr
Smith would voted against it he didn't want it he was wasn't going to going to have anything to do it lo and behold what happened after that I found out uh know four months later Mr Smith contacted the uh attorney general saying
I have I had uh violated open meeting laws in regard and also because of that I the letter I sent out uh to the abuts saying that uh it was illegal to do that well uh I did get a response uh or C
copy of Mr Smith's response for the the attorney general and it said uh on and I'll I'll I'll present it to you guys now uh that I did not do anything wrong in regard to contact the butters so that
was my first big uh can we take a copy of that for an ex an exhibit please we do have Brena duat on the phone okay hi Brena but that was uh the parking lot project uh was passed at the first
meeting that uh Mike Hogan uh addressed uh or here was there was able we had a quorum Mr Smith came to the meeting you know saying you know four we had four people on the on board we'd vote for it and uh yeah on the we'd take the motion
up and do it it passed 3 to one Mr Smith uh didn't didn't want it so and that was his response by first sour grapes I've seen with him you know that was my first exposure to him on that and you know when you get a letter like that out of
you know he he had said something oh I'm going to go to the ethics commission I'm going to go to the uh you know you know you guys can't do this I'm you know you know I've seen a lot of that over 38 years with ston and this this guy was probably one of the worst I've ever dealt with in my whole career both in
Municipal and town government or state government uh and he and as Judy had said and Alex has said the meetings that we had when he did show up were all tense they were all tense and he seemed to he be questioning every little you
know T and I and everything in regard to and also with our executive director and our executive director she called me numerous times saying I can't stand the guy he's he wants all kinds of information thousands of pages as
information that as a and he kept saying as a board member I'm entitled to all this stuff I'm entitled to all this stuff well 43 records years of uh to meeting or meeting records uh uh other records uh uh meeting Rec meeting
records it's just you know it was unbelievable unbelievable we we do have Bren up here so she will be able to speak to some of those issues we had you know and the feeling and and she had complained too that she felt threatened
by him she was threatened by him we'll let Brena speak to her she did complain to me that she was threatened by him and uh in regard to the point and I went to see our chief of police to talk about it and it I'm sure if you asked Mike about
it he might have a record for you in the time I went over and talked to him about what we could do about uh his behavior and I didn't know what to do you know uh uh every meeting we had Mr Smith was always always on the other side with one
exception in the whole thing and uh uh it was the mini split mini split for two years we were talking about mini splits and uh putting them in the Authority and uh he you know
you know Mr Smith is is pretty pretty knowledgeable on that type of stuff and he was uh you know he helped us you know in in regard to talking about the intricacies of the uh uh project and he is also kind of an expert in solar which I don't really you know know much about
but he helped us with that so you know it wasn't a complete failure on his part uh uh he did provide information but sometimes the way he provided it you know condescending to the other members he would questioning other members that they had a comment he says and to this
point he said that's a stupid he's numerous times he said that's a stupid thing and he'd say to either member other members of that so I tried to keep the decorum on the meetings it was tough and but he he is a me he was a member and I tried to you know let him speak
and uh uh it was tough it was tough for me to to do that but in regard to the Mini Splits uh I had I voted with Mr Smith on it it went down to vote three to two and he he could not believe that uh
it would the other members voted against that he says putting the safe safety and the health and security of the uh of the tenants at risk and uh it's and calling the other members voted stupid it's just unbelievable and there
reason I I voted for it I thought in the long run it might be in the best interest of the Housing Authority but at that meeting 38 of the 42 members of the uh uh tenants at the at the housing T didn't want the mini splits even though
I voted for after if it came back up again for reconsideration like Mr Smith wanted I would have voted against it the second time so that was the real contentious the two big ones I remember but there was other ones there was other ones I'm sure uh Brena and uh you know
uh if Mike's talks he can tell you about no okay some of the things that she had she had uh you know experience with uh Mr Smith okay I just I I guess I would just point out a couple of things in these there's actually a letter here
or an email excuse me from Mr Smith um to Brena in 2021 and he actually asked for minutes from 1966 to 2020 so even beyond the 1973 you had mentioned so I miss seven years and then
um you know there's also we you know we we do have documentation in here that there are specific limitations on board members and the number one item is to not sort of um get into carrying on the day-to-day operations of the of the
Housing Authority so I just there's documentation here to back those I did you know at this point I I did watch at uh the last hear uh meeting you had with Mr Smith and some of the comments he made that the uh the board he was the
only one on the board it was thinking about the health and safety of uh the tenants that was the biggest slap of the face to every person I've ever worked with on that board you know we we had health problems down there we solved through the executive director Mr mic
and then through Brena other things we had SE dip we had a a contagious disease there we caught and we stopped you know uh with the effort of the Board of Health and the uh uh executive director there was other issues when I heard this
sewer thing I you know I don't know when it happened five five apartments with sewer I would like to know the five tenants who they didn't come to as far as I knew come to the executive directors to complain about sewage backup you know he he's getting that
information to the lunchroom if they have a complaint about SW backf you go to the executive director our maintenance was there are no records of that by our our uh maintenance problem or not problems were program was cited
as some one of the best around you know and we have a part-time maintenance guy and we also had contract local contractors you know he wanted to know we got to go out to bid every every 15 seconds on on did we bid this did we did that in regard to any of the S you know
work we did we had a rule if it's under a uh you know you can go out the executive direct get three quotes and pick who who they want you know but oh it was a challenge all the time believe me with him so but uh in in regard to you know
we pulled in over three since I was there and I'm not bragging for myself because I don't care about the town I've been on other drawing or trying to get other grants for the town for a long time we had over $3 million worth of grants that we got in the 12 years I was there
and because we applied for it and we were working with a part-time executive director and when the part-time executive gets overwhelmed with all kinds of questions and things that uh Mr Smith wanted and challenges everybody everybody's crooked you heard that from
everybody's crooked you know uh everybody was uh you know G stealing we have a 200 $300,000 budget at the housing authority and in 87% of it was uh uh from the
tenants rent we didn't get a big subsidy we became a subsidy uh uh Authority probably in my third year on on the board and it was a like a $2,000 subsidy we were getting the state doesn't subsidize us we have to go out for their grants we have to apply with everybody
else for their grants so and to do so and with the other board members they don't want to do it if you're going to deal with a guy like that's always going to question every little detail in in regard to any little project that goes on we were able to put a roof on sightings on Windows new parking lot new
sidewalks a maintenance building and it just finished a a a rehab of the uh outside did some lawn work that was the last uh uh project I was involved with before I retired last year but uh again you know to so for this guy for
me you know you're you're trying to let him go it didn't come soon enough for me during my tenure and uh and he's also a member of other boards right he's also a member of the Redevelopment Authority right how successful has that been I think that should be abolished that's
all I have to say did you want to add do you have any questions or no I don't have any questions no I understand yeah I mean I read through there's a lot of uh so I just you know there's a lot of documentation here going back years um
and as you can see a lot of it was of great interest to me so there's it's quite a lot of alarming things just one more thing the last week I was there the last comment out of Mr Smith uh Brena had gotten a job where she got she was
gonna get three times as much as she was getting here in North Carolina she called me up and said uh uh I have to leave I'm moving out of state she said she loved it here she loved the tenants she loved working with most of the board
members she enjoyed she said I enjoyed working with you and uh and she left the day you know the day she was uh her last meeting I handed in my resignation I had planned to leave two years earlier but
because of Mr Smith being there I couldn't leave the other board members out to the wolves like I said and uh it's just it was just terrible it's just terrible so but he did he did say that
to me he says you and Brena conspired to leave on the same day and that in that was the biggest insult I've ever heard so but that's it thank you Jay um do we still have Brena Brena can
you hear us yes I can hi Brena um we are also joined on the phone tonight from I think South Carolina North Carolina um Brenan duat who was the former um director of the Housing Authority um and uh I I think it's
important that we hear from Brena as well Brena um you missed the beginning of the meeting but um we are going to have to administer an oath before we can allow you to speak so are you okay with that yes okay so you you will have to
raise your right hand um and swear or affirm that the testimony that you give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth can you hear us if so say I do I'm sorry yalling up B do oh did you
hear the oath yes I did hear that okay so do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do okay thank you um so you know basically been um asking about the
atmosphere there um and the you know ability of the housing authority to function um with Mr Smith on the board and and then tell us about your experience a little bit um yeah absolutely um and and thank you
for having me hear a bit of what Mr wils was saying I also listened to the last meeting um so rather than re repeat we do know that he impeded a
lot of the daily operations um and my I guess what I ultimately really want to hone in on and talk about is the countless times he acted on
behalf of the board without consent or directive from either the board as a whole or chairman WS at the time former chairman WS um whether that be personally contacting vendors
Engineers um you know the the side side projects for lack of a better word um really hindered the board working as a collective body um and to your point earlier him being overly involved in
daily operations um I had informed him on numerous occasions um you know within the bylaws of the Housing Authority within the state guidelines there
are there are procedures to follow if a tenant has a complaint or concern they to come to administrative staff if it is not um dealt with or handled to the tenant satisfaction then they can be
asked to be put on the um board's agenda and address the board so for him to go out of his way and discuss you know the plumbing or whatever other issues um he felt necessary to discuss outside of a
board meeting um and without my knowledge again not proper procedure to sit down every week um at lunch and just let tenants give them give him their gripes that is
not how a Housing Authority functions there needs to be you know kind of the chain of command or it completely undermines the administrative staff um so again rather than go into you know
the stop light not working the mini splits that didn't happen I did just want to speak to how his behavior was not he was never acting on the best interest of the board as a collective body it was always his best interest if
he did not like something he would go out of his way to as I said do personal research con contact Engineers vendors things of that nature and then bring that back to the board but when he was
speaking to these individuals he was acting as if the board had given him directed to do so which is false um and that in itself is unethical I don't know if there is
anything specific that you all would like me to you know speak on um or elaborate on I mean if you have a you know a couple of instances if you want to you know give us more information on
that then yeah yeah um so specifically with this minis split project that the board voted down he then came to the following meeting and
had contacted um the engineers the HVAC company that was involved he he contacted them and had discussions with them again acting as if it was on behalf of the board when the board had already voted
no so he was not within his right to go ahead and speak for the housing authority on something that was already voted on turn down matter over um so that's that's one specific instance um there I mean I'm sure I have the emails
printed out of several different times where he contacted uh members of uh eohc and you know asked them specific things where kolina Gonzalez then went back to
him and said you know this really should be going through the director um and and again just not recognizing that there is protocol to how things are are dealt with and how discussions happen and you
can't just you know um what's the what's the word you can't just undermine me or the board because you don't like what the answer
was okay thank you Brena um I know that there were you know there were some things in here about feeling
intimidated or um trying to find the specific things um I guess I was just curious if you wanted to speak to that as well I think I
um in general Mr Smith overall demeanor was that he he was always right um and again if if he did not receive the response that he felt was appropriate there were
tactics used whether that be trying to inundate me with requests for information um you know bad mouthing either myself or other board members to the tenants just creating an air of hostility in general
um I I don't know from day one that we ever had a professional relationship I think he made it very clear from day one that he was going to you know come in kick the door down uh as you alluded to before you know
getting meting minutes from the 60s um there I uh I apologize I'm trying to think of something more specific for you as far as like intimidation but I think it was just more of knowing if he didn't
like what I had to say there was always going to be repercussions whether that be him um filing something the ethics commission that was unfounded or you know just like I said general inundation of requests um going
to my superiors uh in Boston and um just yeah so there um there is definitely an intimidation factor in it I always knew what he was trying to do and that is why from day one of meeting
him I kept a file on him because I knew that this would come to a head because a man like Mr Smith will will not stop he will keep going and going until someone stops him um and and again he has never
acted although he says in the best interest of the tenants he has never acted in the best interest of the tenants it has always been in his mad Madam excuse me law my isn't here I wish
to uh adjourn this meeting until we can have and it and then I'm I think it should go to a court of law there's so much hear say so much uh in improper information Mr Smith we're going to get through our Witnesses and then you are going to have time to speak you had two
weeks notice of this meeting with the ability to bring your attorney my my lawyer is in another part of the state right now and you asked for this meeting to be held in Open Session that was your request so I'm going to stop you right there and we will get to you this will
be fair you will have your time okay do I get to cross no no you're not under obligation to hold cross examination I stated that in the beginning so when there's things you're going to have the time to speak Brena did you want to continue or
um I honestly lost my train of thought uh and I apologize for that but understood yeah I am uh certainly not surprised I was
interrupted um okay thank you did did you have anything further to ask no no I don't know um so I I believe we have one more person that would like to speak Mr Hogan would you like to speak would would you
Brena are you all set for now yes thank you um if I could just have you state your name and then I will administer the oath Michael Hogan and I live at 157 Main Street Hatfield and if you could raise your right hand and swear or affirm that the testimony that you give
will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth absolutely wonderful so somewhere in the fall of 2020 uh an old friend named Buster samansky had reached out to me and said hey I need a favor I worked for Buster as a
Young Man know knew him my entire life my father knew him and I said Buster what quite frankly we met at fish tails and had a beer because Buster loved to go to have a beer and he said I'm not feeling well and I'm going to have an
absence on the Hatfield Housing Authority board I said oh no don't go there and he said I need you to cover my last two years and hopefully you'll like it so much that you'll want to do it for a while um I knew the members I did not
know Judy shell I I certainly knew John um and so there were quite a few more beers involved and he talked me into running and I did um on the table at that time in June
it was a June meeting and I went back through my notes there was a vote for a parking lot Improvement if any of you ever took a ride through that parking lot there were
potholes that would eat up a car the sidewalks had heave so badly and we have to remember this is our elderly of Hatfield it was only a matter of time where that someone was going to get hurt
we live in such a litigious Society I knew what was going to happen I hadn't even gone to my first meeting and my phone rang and it was Mr Smith I still have many of the texts he wanted to meet and this was over a two- week period he
wanted to meet at the housing authority on either some afternoon or Saturdays so he could walk me around and show me what his plan was and I remember respectfully saying because I didn't really know Chris that well knew of him
Chris we're three years into this there's a state Grant on the table we don't sign this we're going to lose the dollars and the parking lot needs to be done this is ridiculous and so again many more text many phone discussions and I finally
contacted a family attorney and said what's my exposure here and he said violation of open meeting laws if he's an active board member he shouldn't be calling you to talk about something that he's unhappy about so he saidou have two choices ignore him or
file uh a grievance or a complaint with the state and I didn't do that so our first meeting came and he was he was incredibly agitated and we spoke of we G we allowed him the time to speak of his his thought
and I again we had prior to me you had three years to decide this now here we are in the 11th inning 59th 11th Hour 59th minute and you want to change this his his theory was that I would be the deciding vote in his favor and I
wasn't going to do that um so it got very contentious that was the first night that he said to Judy shell that she was stupid that her decision was stupid and then he had some Choice words for Brena
and I I I I had no exposure to Brena and frankly nothing but a great experience with the Hatfield Housing Authority so I I interrupted and for 10 minutes I went on to Chris and I said why are you acting this way why are you so rude
particularly to the two women Judy and Brena I I don't understand it you're you're condescending you're rude and there's no place for this and I said if you're that unhappy what are you doing here leave and he and he got upset and
he said I probably will leave and there were other people there I said Chris seriously what it this is not a this is not the forum for your agitation this is more Forum to help the elderly of Hatfield so that did not end well um it
just didn't and from from there not more than two months later I got a call from the Attorney General's office stating that I had been brought up on ethics violations I said really I said on what grounds at that point they said we are
not able to discuss what the violations are and I said then I have nothing more to say to you you're you're calling me to tell me that I somebody complained that I did something unethically and you're not going to tell me and they said well that Forum will
come I said call me when you're ready so about two weeks went by and they called me and they said that a gentleman not a not a female not a male a gentleman filed a grievance in with the ethics commission that I should have have abstained a
vote because my we have a property that AB buts to the Housing Authority what he didn't know is we had just had it surveyed and the town bylaw says you have to have 300 feet and I believe that property in the line the back line is on
an angle the survey came out at 302 feet and 305 ft so all of that and and I'll get to that because it caused me great angs I work for a midsize defense contractor in the ship building business
um I do have uh um security clearances and when this happens because we go through training twice a month I have to tell them when there is such a a thing as an Ethics violation it's called complete
transparency so while this was going on I was my security clearance was revoked imagine my employer you know here I I listen he Mike this is just over a Housing Authority I said well I said you know it was contentious there was one
person that didn't like it so I ended up going to Boston having a meeting there and I explained to them I showed them the survey and I said well yeah but you should have abstained and I said no you don't understand I'm not abstaining from anything I was within my right and my
first time at the on a on a state board I didn't realize that there was even an issue um so again a no finding they said you know what in the future just learn what you need to do and I said yeah it's my first meeting folks and so again was
never told it was Christopher Smith but seemed quite ironic that I would get turned in for an Ethics violation because he was angry that I would not vote in his favor we have elderly people that walk back back and forth to their
cars I didn't want to see them fall and the money was on the table it was it was just it was idiotic what he was asking the we had many many contentious moments on the board while I was there and I asked myself why why am I doing
this I absolutely enjoyed my time dealing with the rest of the board members they were all very dedicated very smart made great decisions as I did with the tenants and when the mini split came I was not
on the board because I had to resign I couldn't I couldn't put my career in Jeopardy again and I'd like to submit this is my resignation letter pretty much spells it out I stood up and spoke he had some under breath comments like he's had many
tonight and I get where he's at it's not pleasant having barbs thrown at you but you're here for a reason it took something for this to happen and this is what I felt is from a from a technical and a mechanical point of view the Mini
Splits made sense there are certain communities in New England that don't have a courier in IES Main Street Hatfield is one of them that is the Allure of Hatfield it is Courier knives drive down there on a frosty morning and you'll see what I mean and I just said
this does not make sense for us to do this to change the the view to change the look in 42 or 44 mini splits with pipes running up to the second floor and and I remember he said well we'll plant bushes in front of well what are you
gonna do with the pipes it made no sense to me and and just in in concluding it made it very difficult for the other board members I will give John wils just Kudos he kept this cool he
tried to appease Chris and tried to do what was best not just for Chris but also the the Hatfield housing board and Chris quite frankly for you to make a statement a broad brush statement that the board doesn't care about the elderly
in Hatfield I think you owe the board an apology and you also owe the tenants of Kaa wank an apology don't ever speak for me I can speak for myself and I speak quite well there's nothing true that I
didn't care about the elderly one of the things that we did in Chris did not want to partake in this is the parking lot reconstruction was quite upsetting for a lot of attendants many of the board members got together we all got together Chris
didn't want any part of this and we said you know what it's Christmas why don't we have Peter langlo put together a meal and we went out and we paid not the state we paid for a Christmas holiday meal you can't imagine what people thought of that Brena and Judy shell
delivered all of them to each apartment you'd think you gave somebody a million dollars I got I got cards to my house phone calls as did all of us so for him to say that we didn't care about the bo the the tenants is just an absolute rude
comment and and as John said a slap in the face and that that's what I have to say so you go we'll take that as an exhibit thank you okay but I'm I'm I'm not sure if any do you have any questions or no I have no
questions I do I do not have any questions but thank you very thorough um so um it that is the um end of the people um that we intend to call as Witnesses
obviously there's no one else here um which means that Chris it you now have the opportunity to come over we'll administer an oath to you as well and then you'll be able to speak so I I will ask you to raise your right hand and swear or affirm that the
testimony that you give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth all the truth okay I'm going to read a statement and then we'll uh go from there um I'm going
to do a little questioning of some of the people that have spoken but let's start with a statement there's not they're under no obligation to respond yeah you can ask questions sure oh that's fine that's fine
uh select board and the town and Town's people this evening I wish to begin the hearing by discussing the following issues that I believe the select board in Town's people need to consider in the best interest of our elderly living in
affordable housing and with regards to my removal from the house Hatfield Housing Authority topic one state version of a Housing Authority Under mgl 121b a
Housing Authority oversees the town's affordable housing by setting policies controlling finances grants Etc to provide secure safe and healthy environment to to qualifying
residents the Housing Authority operates independent of the of the town government under the state department of eohc uh executive office of Housing and living communities uh before that was
dhcd Department of what was that John what was the name Community Development yeah thanks a lot of Acron and the governor appoints one member to the board the select board appoints a tenant representative and
three members are elected from the town the authority hires an executive director who operates daily operations hires staff fills vacant uh unit vacancies under strict State guidelines
a Housing Authority should work to provide affordable housing for 10% of the Town population through grants developments and Zoning all Housing Authority members must participate in training within 90 days
uh of appointment or election and ethics training every two years when dhcd be ehcd became eoh LC in 2023 this changed and now members
must renew training every two years uh Housing Authority uh Hatfield version of a Housing Authority based on my experience after over four years as a Housing Authority commissioner I have learned the
following of the seven members I have worked with prior to October 2024 five put the interests of ab buding of ab buding Property Owners before the best interest safety and health of the capwalk residents one of these was cited
and removed by state ethics for conflict of interest one passed away who was a good friend of mine Buster by the way um our current chair prior to being elected chair in June 2024 only showed
up to meetings to vote against any proposal that would benefit or improve the lives of kawok residents such as onsite parking recycling an emergency generator heat pumps and much more
Hatfield Housing Authority minutes will show he came to meetings on average of four times per year sometimes making the board wait an hour be I'm sorry yeah before calling in um because H Hatfield
Housing Authority now had three members the required minimum Quorum uh we had no choice but to wait for him to begin meetings this is probably explains the two hours the other Pro problem was virtual
meeting attendance was discontinued by voted policy in May 2023 the current Vice chair also the appointed select board tenant representative caused the local tenant organization to discontinue meeting
after the first three months of her appointment openly violates the Hatfield Housing Authority pet policy and after spreading misinformation about heat pumps caused residents not to want
them at our last meeting uh in March 18th uh 2025 which was just a few weeks ago uh she agreed to accept a $20,000 State Grant to upgrade uh Kaa walk
installation and air ceiling providing that Mexicans weren't doing the work she actually said this while the meeting was being recorded not true you were there and we'll prove
it I would like to add that this was not my first encounter with racism at Hatfield Housing Authority meetings it was in fact Common Place the Hatfield Housing Authority has never cared about increasing affordable
housing in Hatfield which sits around 3% of our population despite our executive director's announcements of available state grants to add more affordable housing to our town and in fact Hatfield Housing Authority
refused to send a representative to the 2022 to 2024 comprehensive plan to discuss more affordable housing I attended as a Redevelopment representative as a housing Hatfield
Housing Authority as to Hatfield Housing Authority membered required training from 2020 to 2024 I was the only Housing Authority member to complete the training and hold
a certificate according to the annual dhcd and the eohc reports the new executive J he interrup I'm sorry we can't have interruptions I'm sorry we can't do that with all this so I appreciate the
invitation I thank you very much why he did I know I know but we we need to M just as Judy thank for your you're welcome thank Youk you all right uh the new executive director Carol leap here told me in June
2024 that all three remaining housing authorities members in me included had a s specifi the state training requirement for the first time then at the March 11th 20125 select Board hearing she
stated I was the only Housing Authority member to have uh laps training so I was surprised to learn from the eohc February closeout report for
Hatfield dated February 27th 20 25 that in fact none of the current Housing Authority members including me had met the state training requirement I I have the forms to prove
I did it just did it okay I'll give you a copy of the report just so you have it okay I I most certainly did it no it goes to Andrew I'm taking the I'll take I've got some
thank what happened in 20 may I get to talk right uh May 2024 in April Housing Authority executive director Miss tuat resigned because she was moving to North Carolina and Housing Authority chair
announced he was retiring from alltown boards hat Hatfield housing decided to regionalize management we met with both amorist and North Hampton housing authorities and chose Northampton with Carol leier as executive director for a
trial period of six months commissioner Scott also announced he his resignation for June 30th despite two vacancies Hatfield housing was able to continue to conduct business of The Authority with
three remaining Quorum members and we met what happened in October 2024 and after this was a critical meeting because Miss leure wanted the housing
authority to sign a three-year contract to be effective in November the contract was incomplete with Pages where the type ran off the page um and I I I'll provide a able to Andrew of this when I said I refused to
vote to sign the incomplete contract Miss leaper told me I was putting the future of kawok at risk I made a motion to post another meeting in a week to have a corrected contract to review and
vote but I couldn't get a second both commissioner malinowski and shell voted to accept the incomplete contracted presented this was a breach of fiduciary duty to the Hatfield Housing
Authority as I pointed out in other meeting business that chair malanowski had been in violation of Hatfield Housing Authority meeting policy by attending the previous three meetings virtually and supplied him with a copy
of the May 23 minutes in which both he and Miss shelle had voted to discontinue virtual meetings he became physically agitated and threatening toward me in a few weeks later I learned from
miss leier that the select board was to hold an executive session with Hatfield Authority prior to our November Hatfield Housing Authority meeting when I requested a copy of the complaint she said she was new and I had this in an
email and didn't know I asked former Town Administrator Miss michonski she didn't know either I asked select board member ated jorski and he said he didn't know and besides he added the select board didn't have
jurisdiction uh over the Hatfield Housing Authority so I didn't attend and a week or so later select Board member Miss eisel prior to the H Hatfield housing November 2024 meeting had
herself appointed to the Hatfield Housing Authority by the select board without publicly posting the position it is important to note that there was an applicant waiting to be appointed to the Hatfield Housing
Authority since September and it was not considered or was the applicant I'm sorry was not considered nor was that applicant considered when Miss zeol had her friend appointed to the Hatfield Housing Authority in February of
2025 without the proper joint meeting of both boards because of the hostility and intimidation of leaper and seol toward me coupled with disregard for State housing authority and town law illegal
process procedure engaging in retaliatory measures against those who disagree with them supported by the the Hatfield Housing Authority chair and vice chair I stopped attending
meetings because now they now had a quorum of the Hatfield housing members they wanted to operate in the manner they wanted so what was the point Miss leaper and Miss zeol had complete control so he confounds me why they
needed to have me removed only two months left in my term then then March 28th 2025 a cazette article titled Northampton Housing Authority
boss placed on leave explains why it also explains why they had to appear at the Hatfield housing March 18th meeting as though the authorities suddenly cared about Kon and its residence it was the
best Hatfield Housing Authority meeting I had ever attended and because of my optimism I was easily duped into believing I had finally caused some good trouble steps during and after this
hearing I would ask the select board to consider the so-called letter of complaint against me is a personal fabrication of Miss leaper it was never a Hatfield housing meeting agenda item
it was never voted or signed by the Hatfield Housing Authority Hatfield housing never asked Miss leier to publicly read her letter at any Housing Authority meeting or select board meeting as she did at the
select board meeting of uh February 25th 2025 and by doing so violated my right to an executive session under Mass General law 30A section 21 further there is no supporting
documents for the so-called four charges leveled against me except my lapse of training and as I've said before to remove me for that you would need to remove the other three
members for this hearing after this hearing even if the select board decides not to remove me the Hatfield Housing Authority has many challenges ahead with the Hatfield Housing Authority executive director being suspended and
investigated I'm not sure what can be done with only one more meeting in my term perhaps you would agree that rather than focusing on removing me you would instead use this opportunity to discuss
the future of Hatfield housing authority and how to best serve Hatfield and kawok residents I would propose for consideration that the Hatfield Housing Authority reach out to the ammer housing authority to see if
they're still open to working with us on a six-month trial and if so ask Northampton housing authority to release Hatfield Housing Authority from uh no the November three-year contract which
was in complete with Northampton housing authority and by default Hatfield Housing Authority Under re hoolio receivership this proposal may be very welcome considering the uncertain future
of for all Northampton related authorities respectfully submitted Christopher Smith I'll give you a copy okay did you have any questions for Mr yeah I mean there was I just had one question
well I had a couple questions one was you stated that there was somebody removed by the state Ethics Committee but my understanding that nobody was removed there was a hearing but there was no findings is is that correct I
mean the state ethics Commission didn't say you have to quit they when when he submitted a letter he said he had an issue with he wasn't a butter for God's sake there was no finding no question oh okay you can do
that sure I mean he wasn't removed by the ethic things like this all the time don't sure so I just want to make sure we have the correct facts okay and some of the stuff you mentioned at the end pertained to other other stuff than what
people made accusations about or talked about I mean I think what was being talked about was how you got along with the board and the previous boards and actually I'm sort
of surprised that all this stuff has happened over the years yeah and why would I stay if that was the case you know I'm going to say that John and I I till tonight I thought we got along pretty good we didn't always agree and
yes I think he was very wrong to use the Hatfield Housing Authority when he reached out to the abuts but like he said he used his own postage but you still don't use the Hatfield Housing Authority letterhead when you do it but I got to ask you a question of
everything that was everything that was said tonight do you feel that you made any mistakes in your time on the board did you make any mistakes about any of the stuff that was mentioned tonight by you say imperfect head
no you how long have you known each other 40 years I mean for God's sake but look I have served for 44 years on dozens of boards and committees both elected and appointed this
one I don't know I been a pattern Christopher Diana you've got a problem and I told you before you should recuse yourself I'm not recusing myself there's no problem yeah okay um well we we'll see you later um but here's the
point I went in there I didn't run for the office and yes maybe you know I got written in but you know the thing of it was I just wanted you know I had been
going to the lunch at the COA I'm an elder right and I listened to what those people were saying and they live in fear they live in fear Granda scared them to death they
were afraid they were going to get kicked out who did you say scared them to death the tenants that I talked no who scared them did you say Brena scared them ridiculous in the board that is a ridiculous statement this is Mr Smith
speak I'm just telling you what they told me okay so when I got written in I was very surprised Lydia came when I went to uh you know get sworn in she she called me and said do you want to do
this and I said what do you mean she says well you know what it's like over there and I said yeah okay and she said well you know you could back out if you want and I said all right I'll give it a good try I'll tell you
something after I heard that I called Buster because I know Buster for years and I said what do you think I said can I do any can I do anything that might make things better here and Buster said
to me look if people you want you to come why don't you give it a try I did in the first meeting oh by the way we meant virtually actually for first few years because of Co right it was interesting because when I got on the
board Buster nominated me for chair and I'm going Buster I don't know anything I'm not trained what are you talking about and he said well he says I've known you for years and you know I thought you make a good chair I said no
I have to do this for a year or two I have to get trained which I did so after that um like that so um Ed if you ever known me to lie
ever I've known you for a long time you're a pretty smart guy but I mean I'm hearing all this stuff and I'm sort of like wow I'm going wow too because I can't believe the stuff they were saying and yes there's personalities right and
I get it Diana is wasn't too happy that I worked for Lindsay I get it I'm going to address that we don't want to have to go through that right I'm going to address that nothing to do with it has nothing to do with that in the in the time first of all that was seven years ago in the time since then I've actually
appointed you to committees we've come before this board a number of times for a variety of things with no incident there's other people that I work with now who also supported Lindsay that that's a ridiculous statement it's just deflecting it is just deflecting from
your own behavior let me ask and trying to make it my problem it's not so I don't get a chance to speak you've been speaking for a long time but go ahead okay so let me ask you a question Mr malanowski set up two meetings to appoint what's her name
Betty snow or somebody who when there was a vacancy you know I don't know her very well or anything but she put her application in you there was a joint meeting set up twice in the fall on the second one just
because the meeting was set up doesn't mean we were going to vote her in and we made a decision as a board to Jesus Christ why can't you let me finish let me finish on the second time I'm sitting there waiting for an hour you asked me to wait for an hour see if the other
board members would show up they didn't and you said to me at that time I think it was early October or something what's going on with your board I said 'I don't know they posted this meeting they're not showing up whether I don't know whether you
appointed Betty snow or Boo the clown I don't you know whatever it was she she put in her application she was due the respect of a consideration and that what didn't happen and when I said that to you in
this room and I I said that I walked away and what did you say do you remember I have 100% faith in Mr melanowski that's oh good I do let me be clear
stick with that okay so you know at that point I don't know what happened I was thinking we would do it again and then the next thing I know there's Cara's given me some a a an email there's an
executive session with the board of Selectmen about what and then I you know I said is there a complaint she says I'm new I don't know what what they're talking about I asked marleene I there's
no complaint okay so what happened there I don't know somebody explain it to me Ed you know I saw you at the VA you said I don't know what's going on what the heck H the next thing I know you're you're getting yourself appointed
to the Housing Authority yes okay be because it was not functioning and it is functioning now very nicely yeah the last meeting was great wish you a lot maybe should have run earlier I don't know but I'll tell you something
um you know if that's my last meeting I'm going to say this to you if that had been my first meeting things would have run a whole lot different I gotta say that I really got a whole
different I hate to use the word Vibe but it was it was 100% different um but John wils I'm going to give him all the credit in the world you know he was one of the other
people that was cared I got to say and was fair and a good shair and we got the emergency generator in they even voted it was insane you know they weren't recycling over there they were
just they had to do you want to stay to the the content of the just saying what it was like and for them you know the push back was if it costs a nickel more we won't do recycling and I'm going
what are you talking about everybody in town does recycling it it was kind of weird that way so anyway um well even in here there's there's um emails back and forth about you actually reaching out on your on behalf of the Housing Authority
without authorization on that contacting those recycling stuff with you want to talk about Bren all right there's a guy named Ty I know him very well he's a neighbor right
and it just occurred to me I said it wouldn't this be a wonderful Community thing to help an autistic person if they didn't want to if if the board didn't want to have a separate container for recycling maybe
this young man and I said to the board and the board said fine meet with um you know with Brena about it well his mother that Tai you know autistic kids had trouble and she was late she was about
20 30 minutes late to the appointment and I asked I said Bren I'm sorry she's late but understand the situation and she just basically said you had your chance and that was it it was it was UN
it was sad it really was but I I can tell you that would have been a warm wonderful thing to have I met with you and his own mother said this isn't going to work out because with the state you
need certain liability insurance they weren't late to the meeting you were late to the meeting and I did sit down this is your time so if you'd like to not allow this you're allow Brena I'm G ask you can I ask Brena a question she still here did you
ever have a personal relationship with a contractor who got Awards to do work you you no you're no not under any obligation to answer any of these questions but you may if you stay in pitcho can verify it this is the this is exactly the kind
of behavior Christopher this is exactly the kind of behavior we're talking about exactly the kind of behavior so keep it keep it going the way it was yeah fine or can we could clean it up it oh it's clean up people wantan to if people want
to write me in again I'll work to clean it up I think I'm done you know to be honest with you I have one more meaning to go we got this executive directors have you read the corruption
oh my God Christopher it's aw anyway good night okay so at this point it appears that the test the T pardon the testimony part of this is over and so we we actually have to close the hearing is that correct yes we close the
public hearing and now we would enter into deliberations public deliberations correct yes and it's closed to the select board just to speak but people can be here everyone should be here if um I I guess I just before we begin
deliberations I want to um State clearly that the opportunity to be a public servant is an honor and a privilege and with that privilege comes great responsibility to execute our duties in the best interest of
Hatfield um I getting ready for this um this also feels like a really good time right now to acknowledge the professionalism and dedication of my colleagues and I extend that acknowledgement to Our Town Administrator Andrew as well you know by fostering a mutually respectful
relationship um here at the board I think we set the standard for expected behavior um that we we should expect from all boards committees and authorities and ultimately we do create a productive and efficient atmosphere to serve Hatfield so the other thing I
would like to State before we um enter into any deliberations is I would like to recognize chairman malanowski um because he has remained committed and dedicated despite um very difficult circumstances that I think are clear to see tonight um the type of behavior
that's that's been going on and I also want to recognize Judy shell um also who remained dedicated um and committed despite the circumstances and has really been an asset over there sort of as the boots on the ground and somebody who's very familiar with the property and the
residents over there um so those were things that I felt um just I personally wanted to say before we entered into any deliberations so um you know I really came into this not really knowing um if
I thought the best action was to just let Mr Smith continue his term or actually um remove him from the board I I think that the behavior here tonight I was I was really hoping that maybe the behavior would be um would be a little
better I think that there's a lot of unprofessional behavior it is corroborated by not one person not one instance but a lot of different instances and I don't think that that that that behavior lives up to the standards that I think Hatfield
residents have a right to to expect from a public official and that I'm that's I'll let everyone El's weigh in at this point now we did get a legal opinion correct or did he weigh in on he weighed on this
what what did legal say as far as after he reviewed the information that was Pres present it home so I would say there is no written legal opinion um and I I would say that everything we have done has been in accordance with the pro
procedures and processes that Town Council has laid out we are following uh uh chapter 121b of of the master general laws which stat says within the select board's right to remove a member for conduct um or for not fulfilling their duties uh provided they're given an
opportunity to attend a hearing 14 days all of that has been uh in accordance with with the statute um I think what you may be referring to is it is not always typical for a select board to to
take the the measure to remove an elected official it's it's often thought of as being a high barrier to do so to have a high bar set from his conduct that's less of a legal question and more of a political one I would say and then there's also the risk that comes from
taking a step like that should the the party removed feel that it was done not according to the statute they may decide to protest in some way Often by taking legal action so you could understand why
a person who's uh protecting the best interest of the Town might say uh with a month left in a term you may not uh you might want to consider not taking that step however I think at the same time this board has a a duty
to uh fulfill its its obligations which would include CH 121b which you mentioned the statute and if you feel that the the barrier for um the bar for uh removal has been met I think you still have the ability to do so so
that's that's a roundabout way of saying that we're following what Town Council has has asked for and in doing this this hearing and everything else um that you can consider the the pros and cons of of what might response be for removing a member but I think it's also been done according to the
statute okay I will say we are that answers my question on one hand on one hand what we're sort of saying is he's only got one more month because then he's all done he's not running again right you do have a couple people that are running
indicated would serve again he has not pulled papers and we have candidates who have pulled papers um he could mobilize a writing campaign that's within his right correct but even if he was removed today he
could still do a writing campaign question we don't have a impeachment option to toing office in the future which it's interesting I believe that we we have well personally I believe I have an
obligation as as a member of the select board to back all committees and that are volunteering their time including us none of us have to do these jobs the Housing Authority doesn't have to do those jobs
and to force somebody to not want to do that job on a few different cases that I see here is is not acceptable and I don't think that
if well I I believe that if we don't support the people that the Housing Authority in particular this time with taking this to our attention then I don't think I'm sending a member to the a message to the other committees
that I would not back them if they were having troubles which may prevent people from volunteering to more help out the town oh I agree I wish some of this was brought to us a lot sooner it's like
some of the stuff's been going on for a while but we were never informed or told once that board became not functional anymore until later I
mean and that sort of that caused more problems once they they were down to three people I mean if they had five then they'd have a vote to conduct business but once they were down the
three and you had some differences of opinion among the a couple of the members it became sort of personal I guess I mean you had people pushing their agenda which they thought was
totally the right agenda people were against and you mean like previously with the mini splits in the park right right all that stuff I think just developed into something it shouldn't have been this has been a pattern for long
time right I believe on other boards as well I think that for the Hatfield housing authority to have sent this letter and gotten together and built up to bringing it before us shows that they've been under lot of
stress and they're coming to us and asking for our support out of frustration and disappointment maybe and uh they
didn't know what else to do and we were like we're like the last resort so I want to I I I I want to support the housing authority and and uh show that I'm backing them definitely I think that's what I mean
when I talk about setting that standard right and and what we will not tolerate as you know and I was sort of disappointed that Mr Smith didn't I mean there was a lot of
accusations made against him and when he had a chance to uh oppose or deny these accusations he didn't present anything forward to tell tell why he had a difference of opinion he
wanted to talk about some other stuff basically that's what I heard I don't know if I if you guys heard this yeah I mean I think that that was the same his same response at the last meeting that we had it's just a a you know it's just classic deflection instead of facing um
you know the the um things that we're we're discussing regarding his very specific behaviors and um his very specific um you know failures in terms of showing up at meetings it's just to deflect and insult other people and
accuse other people of of all these other things that there's no evidence of so it's you know there's just been such a complete breakdown and this is a a tough situation to be in because we uh we have a whole different set of Standards here that we operate under and
that's one of the reasons I wanted to mention that because it's you you can see the difference and you can see how it affects the ability of aboard to be effective and productive and at the end of the day that's what we're supposed to be here for um you know the to to to
accuse people of not caring about residents and that is just it's it's it's it's disturbing this this kind of behavior is just very disturbing and it's really unfortunate that this was going on so long um before people knew about it and
really what happened just to clarify um I was actually having lunch downstairs um when he pulled me aside and said we have problems on on the board and I said okay well maybe it's time the select board steps in and and
takes a look at this maybe there's something we can do maybe we can all three get on because there were three vacancies I wasn't sure if that was possible probably not um but I said maybe one of us can get on you know we'll and and then that's what triggered me to make some calls and H start having
some conversations and that's where I started learning about all of this you know um and and just really how how deep and profound it was um I'm I I I just I I I reject this kind
of behavior by by a public official I just don't think it's appropriate and it's really unfortunate that I think we lost some good board members um because of this I mean when you start just you know filing ethics complaints
about people because you have a disagreement with them you know that's that's not that is not um especially when it's their first meeting good behavior that is really just not I mean it'd be one thing if these if there were findings if there were ethics violations
but in both cases there were no findings um and and you know I think we all know we we you know we know these people right we know Jay we know Mike we we know Alex these are these are people who who've served in other capacities you know Jay has done a lot for the town
never had problems like this before that speaks highly to me that that lets me know where the problem is well it sounds like I mean I've known Jay for years and I I have nothing but respect for Jay and it sounds like he he tried to handle
this in a very professional manner uh and was dealing with some inappropriate behavior but he he seemed to handle it in a very professional manner even the person that was having bad behavior said
he handled it in a professional manner so I mean I I I know all three of them I know Mr Hogan Mr Smith and over the years and I I just find the behavior of
Mr Smith of everybody coming forward and stating it was bad behavior and what he did I mean I've served on committees too I mean we may not get along but you try to have a little respect for one another
and we're going to have difference of opinions and it's even harder on this side when you have people you know over the years and you might have to make a decision that you know they're not going to feel good about
and you're not going to feel good about but you know it's got to be the right decision for the protection of the town and for the betterment of other committees because I wish that this was brought up a few years ago with this
kind of behavior and you know same I all I can say is I I brought it up the minute I really learned about it in this specific in you know what was specifically going on I also want to add
um you know we're referring to Jay and Mike and and um but Brena um you know came before the board a number of times on a number of things Brena was always very professional I I had seen her over at Kaa wank a number of times
extremely professional extremely kind you know to have allegations hurled at her that people were terrified of her is it's you know it's it's just not fair to to do that to somebody I mean we you know
you you worked with Brena unless I'm not sure she came before you but she unless unless that's being said to substantiate your behavior I don't well that's what I mean it's just that deflection and it's that um so I mean you know this isn't
anything any of us enjoy or want to do this isn't this is but I I I I guess I feel I you can't you just can't let that kind of behavior go on and have it appear to be condoned I mean all the people that testify they all can't be
wrong I mean on one hand it just and I mean there's there is the the failure to appear there's the lack of um you know not doing the not meeting the qualifications I don't know where you got that form I can give you a certificate that I performed all the training and it's very lengthy very
detailed a lot of tests and quizzes and let me tell you I did it so I don't know why it doesn't appear on there um but well I don't know most people that are involved with this so and listening to everyone I believe
everyone and have no reason to not believe anyone however um what the people have said coming in here about what's going on alone or for this letter from the
housing authority and the Board of Commissioners either one of those two things would be enough for me to want removal is removal from the board either one of those things and again I I don't really have any personal
connection with most people involved in that so well I mean this is tough because you have an elected official that has done some good for the
town but has obviously caused some problems in town and but I think the evidence sort of is I mean it's easy to say well he's got one more month to go just let it wide and
but I suppose is as much as I hate to say this that the evidence is strongly against them and he's not admitting any wrongdoing whatsoever he feels his actions were all correct and
appropriate and that's not that's not a good way to that's not if you're not going to accept any responsibility for your actions that makes it even uh a good reason to say that's an excellent point I I think
through this whole process he has not accepted any responsibility for his actions but nor he has not denied that he has done any of his stuff either so exactly another fair
point so as much as I regret saying this I guess I'm in agreement that we should move for removal but I don't know if this is now going to turn into litigation see looking at it from the
town he could if we vote for removal for the betterment of the town could it end up in litigation costing the town you know whichever way you go you you could argue that there could be risks in that um could claim that there
was uh issues with even having this hearing tonight I I I can't tell you one way or another um I think the action of removing could potentially open us up to to more litigation but at the same time
towns and cities face litigation all the time for for doing things that they're supposed to do or allowed to do or anything else so I um I I don't want that to be the only thing in your minds yeah I mean it it shouldn't be the determining Factor we've been in touch with Town Council
yes um we've gotten clear instructions from Town Council you know it's difficult to predict how somebody might react to something like that but I don't think that that should um scare us into not acting and but even if there's removal it doesn't prevent him forever
running for another office right so he can or the same office or the same office he could still in the future uh we we're just removing him if we remove him and if it would only be
until this term which is another month right yes so I mean that's a that's a fair point too right I mean the the timing of this makes it a you know worthwhile discussion to have that that
does it make sense to do that I you know the me I hope the message is clear that this type of behavior is not appropriate and won't be tolerated I think that's that's the big point that we need to make and I think
we've sort of proven that tonight that we're going to call people on the carpet and if they have an inappropriate behavior and and question it and I think you know I think even his behavior tonight I think for for towns people
watching who may be you know there's a lot of people saying a lot of things I think it's pretty clear that the people who spoke tonight about Behavior at previous meetings I feel like they everything they said was justified really by um
by his behavior here tonight I guess I was hoping for better um I I you know I did like I said I came into this completely not knowing if I would go with the removal I think the fact that it's a month makes it a little
bit difficult of a decision because they you know we we ultimately have the the obligation to protect the town right we we serve the town serve the residents of the town and and at this point what is the best way to serve the town and
protect the town it's with a month to go that makes it an interesting question I think even if it was six months to go my answer would be very clear but with one month to go um
I but I'm I'm I'm I'm upset about this I'm not going to lie I'm upset about what I've learned um you know what what's in these documents his his behavior um that I've learned about his behavior the last couple of hearings that that that's I it's not appropriate
and I don't accept that kind of behavior I don't like it so you know if are we could he I mean anyone can sue for anything it doesn't mean that it's got so he could try to take us to court to court just based on what
we've done whether we take action or not right that's correct so we we're not maybe opening ourselves up to anything more or less by actually taking the action the argument is if you take the action then every step involved would be scrutinized did we follow it directly
according to the statute we consulted Town Council repeatedly and I believe we follow the correct proceedings I think this hearing tonight was fair um but the the burden will be higher should removal take place there'll be a a larger question asked
were all the steps followed believe we have good records showing they were but that's up to the board's decide how they want to proceed it's you know there's also a question of if you have any doubt you know based on anything that was raised tonight if if
if you have any concerns about any of the exhibits anything else you think it's deserves more investigation um if you feel like uh you still don't don't know um there is an OP there is a um option in the statute for
suspension while further investigation takes place that also remains available um typically that would be done say before a hearing takes place but if you leave the hearing and and feel that that it's inconclusive that's an option available to you however if you feel
like you have conclusive evidence to move one way or another um it would make more sense to make a decision on removal yes or no but if you have a suspension would you have to have another hearing that would not be obligated especially if the person leaves their
position so if you had a suspension and then all of a sudden his time ran out and we couldn't reach a conclusion then it just what happens disappears I think the the matter would most likely be moved but we could talk to Town Council
about that so you could I mean so our our options tonight are vote for removal vote for suspension pending further investigation or vote for a letter like
a reprimand letter or something like that that's another option right yeah I would say that letter of reprimand isn't necessarily spelled out in the statute but I don't think you're uh I don't think you you would be um unable to do
that it would be basically a way to close this you you could say we've opted not to remove you yet these are our concerns I I think you could still do something like that you chose to but if we vote for suspension or removal then he's not allowed to do
anything at his next meeting which would be his last meeting if he attends that meeting that's correct and not able to act in any way as a Housing Authority member should he be removed or suspended I I don't like the suspension idea I I mean I think if we really if
there was really more information that we needed to investigate I don't have anything else I feel we need to investigate I think the the the exhibits we have the testimony we've had has been pretty clear um you know and and and the other thing to take into consideration
is part of the part of what um was of concern particularly to Brena was that he was acting as a member of the Housing Authority without um you know the authority to do that from the board which he would be free to do for another
month um if we left him on the board you know so that's a behavior that needs to be taken into consideration I guess when we when we're thinking about if we just want to leave someone on a board who is clearly very agitated and has had a history of acting on behalf of that
board without um the true authority to do so what I what I do appreciate about this board and the pre previous boards I've worked on is we try to talk everything out and and and look at all the angles if we can to see what's in
the best interest of the town and what's the right thing to do so I think we I think we've gotten to narrow it down to uh what we have to do so I and that's why I wanted to make that statement about you know this is this is a
pleasure to be on a board with with people like this and with people like you excuse me both of you and I do appreciate that and I've had the you know the Good Fortune of working with excellent colleagues and I would add Mr Mor arti Mr Williams and Mr gone to that
list previous boards I've worked with um but I I so I think I hear what you're saying Ed soor guess we can move forward I think we've got it I I think I've done my discussion
part I don't know if Greg's got I think I have I I I'll stick with it I I think I think my decision is best for the town of Outfield right and if even if I mean if we move forward with removal it doesn't
prevent him from running again or being in office on anything else right and it's only for a month anyways and his behavior dictates uh that decision
so okay I'm ready to move forward okay make a motion and is there is there formal wording of the motion uh it would just I think just be a motion to remove from the Housing
Authority um you can say um under the provisions of chapter 121b section 6 so how does that have to be phrased in a motion I move that concurrent with uh
chapter 121b section six massachusett general laws um that we remove Christopher Smith from the Hatfield Housing Authority okay Greg you got that did you read it down
yeah okay I'll make a motion that under chapter 121b section six we remove Chris Smith from the housing Board of Commissioners second
a motion made in seconded any further discussion no all those in favor I I I Canon and this is one of those things where the bad stuff you have to do sometimes but it's the right stuff I
mean you just the evidence presented just gave us no choice okay well again thank you to um both of you through this process and and to Andrew and you've been really great um through this it is and no one's
enjoyed it absolutely no one's enjoyed it okay um so we do have two other quick topics um the approval of the DPW job we got some other business huh we do have some other business we do have some other business
and I think my paperwork is thank you thank you the um job description the DPW director job description um yes so I so I had um spent some time reviewing
this a little bit um more closely and had given some suggestions to Andrew about adding language um specifically about um managing procurement but with specific reference to Mass General Law
chapter 30b so that was very clear um that that would be an expectation that this person had um knowledge and understanding of chapter 30b and then there was also um this um other Lang it's underlined in here um researches
evaluates recommends applies for administers and manages Grant friended programs and manages all relevant reporting was something that I felt strongly about having that um and then the other thing that um suggested changes were to make the degree in
engineering preferred um uh that a CDL is desirable and that um the Wastewater and um waste and wastewater treatment operator licenses are desirable so probably water and
wastewater treatment yeah water it should be water fix that yeah um that's on me because I think that we want to maximize the am the PE the amount of people that would be able to apply so that we have you know the best pool of
candidates um those are pretty specialized licenses and I'm think that if someone has a wastewater treatment operator license they're a wastewater treatment operator um yes yep so um those were my my thoughts and
recommendations um and uh you know Andrew has changed this accordingly so I just thought those two things were important to have noted in this before we advertise did the uh departments get to look at this or the supervisors no I
have not submitted that to them yet but I can't make sure they they're all okay with this is I I like the changes I like the preferred part for some of those so uh in the Mass general laws I mean Andrews our chief procurement officer but but he
needs to have some understanding whoever gets hired if we hire somebody to do procurement or yeah because below a certain threshold there's there's still rules to to do how to do it it's just wouldn't rise to the level of maybe you got to
know under sobody then you can do this and do that you have to know the procedure right actually I'll go a step further that our departments are so small I I would welcome input from anybody on the three departments if any of them would like to
look at it and was the was the hope to get this approved tonight though so that we can it's available did we advertise we have not advertised yet right because we need to have this ready right that was the desire but you know if it's important enough to this board to have this reviewed by a wider audience first
we absolutely can uh the one caution I would give is that it it's possible that some of those folks may be candidates for this position um which isn't a reason not to have it but or review it but that it's you know
honestly I you know if if we're going to run it by people's eyes um it might not even be a bad idea to run it by even like our police and fire chief who would probably interact with the DPW director um you know on in a number of ways and I
you know it would be nice to see if they if we're going to do that then let's you know and then we can have it approved at the uh me on the 8th yeah we have a meeting next week yeah it's only a week away I'll circulate if you circulate ask for feedback by by close a business
Friday or something like that uh who would you like uh feedback from so the next question would be are we going to do interviews or are we going to have a committee doing interviews oh that's a good discussion
but let can we can we finish up the he was wondering who should take a look at um the position I mean you're you're saying everybody that like all the employees easy enough yeah the that that are going to work under this person oh yeah that's not a
bad idea I mean I would add the police chief and I would add the fire chief just because you know those departments should be working together they they they clearly do um and and I I think that both of those individuals the police and fire chief you know might have really good input on that yeah
department heads yeah all department heads the DPW department head the Wastewater department head well Greg is suggesting even all the employees at the DPW I mean that give them a chance
right but do you think anyone do you agree with the police and fire taking a look at it I agree well he has to interact with all those departments so right it's not a bad thing right anybody else I'm not sure if you need all the DPW but if you want to it doesn't hurt
and they may not they may closely anything the treasur does yeah it doesn't matter to me yeah I mean I don't know if you have a blast to there's no one that I don't want to weigh in on it I guess it's long story
short I mean if Jerry had a thought on it that maybe there's a reason I don't know you know all send to department heads and DPW staff and uh have folks give me their their thoughts by end of day uh yeah that would be good I mean but like I say I'm specifically interested in
knowing that the police and fire abut are good okay great and then we'll put it on the agenda for Tuesday and uh we'll have feedback at that point and we'll go from there
excellent um and then the um MVP Grant and letter of support yes so I have letter of support I have this one that can be signed should you move to go in that direction and then I have copies of it for each of
you this is the letter of support and I also have an email exchange with Ken comia at the Piner Valley Planning Commission uh this came to us on Monday so that's why this is late and the deadline for the grant is you guessed it
Friday so this is uh working somewhat quickly um but it's an interesting idea that pbpc has has come up with and they are choosing two communities in their area uh to be um to to be uh pilot
communities to work with them on this project that would be funded through the municipal vulnerability planning uh grant program um it would be a partnership with pbpc and the UMass Donahue Institute um to look at what the
implications are of climate change and potential sea level rise Etc on um they say migration um they talk about uh uh climate refugees they're not talking about people from Syria they're talking about people from the cape
essentially people moving from from Boston uh or other areas where where there where climate makes it so they could be losing their homes which actually I'm coming from Newburyport where that happened in a couple cases already so um they're interested in
giving us some some extra resources from evpc to do some housing modeling uh and demand uh uh analysis and looking at some potential for us to uh think about how communities like us might might see change from other places across the
state not being habitable anymore which I think is really fascinating um it's going to help us with some of the research that we'd want to do uh implementing our comprehensive plan and uh making our housing production plan a reality so I think there's uh not really
a downside in doing this I think uh we'd get some extra resources it would all be managed by uh pbpc and umu Institute and would really D down nicely with a lot of our other efforts that we're doing right now on hous might give us a lot of information about
without any obligation to right exactly right it would give us you know ideas this would just put us in the pool of communities that may be selected right or is this actually they're interested in us as one of they're interested well that kind of makes sense they should be interested in us that's right I think
all the stars are align the comprehensive plan's fantastic I think we're we're a community that's in some ways very representative but but also has our you know unique elements that I think are worth looking at um and then there's a lot of folks here who who want to work on something like this so I'd be
excited for it okay so we don't have to pay for it we don't have to do the work we'll just end up with some hopefully useful information um about housing potential yes there's no downside I don't think so
yeah make a motion to uh accept this as presented a second motion made in second any further discussion all those in favor I we do all three need to sign this oh you know what I thought we were gonna have warrants to
sign Hy was G to give us warrants these two already signed it oh got I think you're good okay I can um I can't get is that it that's okay we do have two signatures yeah that's fine um anything
else you want more no not to watch CH I'll be making Greg made a motion to adjourn make a motion oh second yes motion made in second any further discussion all those in favor I
time for my slippers