This meeting is called to order in accordance with the open public meeting act. Notice of this meeting was provided to the home use tribune, the Star Ledger and the Highland Park Planet on January 8th, 2025 and was posted on the Boraval website at www.hpbar.com
hpb.com and on the bulletin board of borrow 221 South Fifth Avenue in Highland Park, New Jersey, and has remained continuously posted as required by law. Fire exited to my right and left of council chambers. In this meeting, no formal action will be taken.
Turning. Can you lead us the pledge of allegiance? Sure. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
I've been roll. Yes. Council member George. Yes. Council member Hail here. Council member Hirs. Hi. Council President Kim Johan here. Council member Felli here. Council member Vargas here. Attorney Renault
here. And administrator Ha here. Okay. Public discussion. Anyone on this? We have no member of the public discussion I mean discussion I'm sorry discussion items. No for discussion items. No formal action will
be taken. Um the first one would be the the fourth round affordable housing plan update. I'll take the first crack at this part. Um, but this is something as we've been discussing for a few months now. We had a presentation by Brian Slaw, our
affordable housing planner. Um, we have a small working group advisory committee. Matt Hirs uh is on that committee along with several members of the affordable housing corporation. Um, I forget the full name of it. Um but
essentially we're I wanted to use this opportunity to kind of remind us of the kind of tight time frame we have in which to work. Um we're in the process of drafting the plan now and the committee will have a chance to review that uh in advance as will the planning
board because the action really takes place the adoption takes place at the planning board. Um the deadline that the hearing we're targeting is June 12th. the planning board meeting that's already scheduled for June 12th and we have to have all of our actions wrapped
up by June 30th. Uh council will then endorse that plan um uh at the meeting on the 24th if all goes well. Um what we just kind of really what we laid out in those initial meetings with council is
pretty much what's going on with the plan. We have our prospective need which is being met primarily through our inclusionary development projects on track A and track C. Uh we have some credits from the AHEPA project uh which
is a 100% affordable project um on across from the Chronomman building on south six. So between that we've cobbled together the 45 units with bonuses and other things that we need. It was a relatively light lift. There's also a um
a current need which is basically a rehab need. So we will likely have a recommendation to and a commitment to establishing a rehab program to complement the one that the county has um and we'll be working with with our um uh planner on kind of we're it's
probably going to be broad struct strokes and then we'll have to implement following the adoption of the plan. So it's a pretty straightforward plan. uh it's targeted at really just razor meeting our obligations. That said, what
we've been discussing um is the potential from this committee. Some other ideas have come up that maybe will convert into a memo of things we'd like to explore in the coming years. We don't have the time in this process to really go into things like accessory dwelling
units, um other kinds of innovative best 100% affordable housing projects, things like that that we might want to think about as to kind of complement our inclusionary um redevelopment strategy. Um and you know, so that's kind of how we've decided to approach it with the
committee because of the tight time frame. Let's have a plan that we can we know we can hit the numbers and we can we can implement and then we will um but we don't want to lose good ideas that we came up with along the way. But if we put them in the plan, you kind of have to do them and we don't think they're
baked enough and we'd have to bring that before council in a way that we won't be able to have ready. Um, but Matt, I don't know if you had anything you wanted to report at this, but I just wanted to remind everybody of the deadlines that are coming and um, I told Matt Haley who sits on the planning
board that I'll be drafting a memo to the planning board to just kind of prep them for this. I'm sure their attorney is very ready because he's doing this in all the other towns. Uh, everybody's got the same deadlines. Um, so we are in good shape because of the numbers that
we have and so the plan is pretty straightforward. Um, so as soon as we have a draft, I mentioned sharing it with the planning board, with the committee, but we will also happily share that with the council. So we'd rather collect input early, uh, rather than have problems later. So that's kind of where we are. We're hoping by the end
of the week to have that draft. Anything to add, Matt? No. No, that's it. So you're happy with the little committee together? Um, June 12th to the planning board. Do you need that memorialized? Yes. So, we'll have the reszo ready to go. So,
they should have the reszo ready. We I'm I've asked um the Chris from your firm uh from RCM to have a template draft ready so that Roger can adapt and have it ready to go. Sometimes they won't be able to vote on memorialization until
No, we we need them to. So, so that's why we want to feed them the information in advance, get any comments back um you know, not as a group. they can't discuss it outside of the public session. Again, I think when you see the plan, you'll see it's fairly strategic,
straightforward, and just if they can't get to that, they will have to have a special meeting. So, use that as an incentive to um get it done and one and done. Uh because we we have to hit this target. Um and we're we're giving as soon as we have a draft that we're
comfortable with, we we'll put draft all over it. we'll happily share it, you know, through Jennifer to the to the board and solicit feedback individually if they have any concerns or questions. But I think because we're so f our how we're leading our numbers are through
the projects that we know are in the pipeline. I I'm just it's not in other towns they might be identifying new sites, you know, you know, doing all this stuff that really needs, but we've done that due diligence
through the redevelopment plans. So, we're we're hopeful that that'll come through in the plan itself and and it'll be in the format that's acceptable, looks a lot like what we've already got. She's also going to be updating, you know, the background information, the statistics, and all that stuff as well.
Um, so I'm hopeful that to you I I appreciate your concern, but I also think I think it can be done because there should really be very few comments and if so, they could be memorialized the same evening. Okay, great. Yes, I'm nothing to add substantively to
to what Terry said, but uh yeah, so I I I you know, our the goal also, you know, is to look forward, you know, so a lot of other towns, they get their numbers. It's based on vacant land. It's based on this methodology that that that DCA put together. Um and basically what other a
lot of other towns are doing is just kind of you know identifying areas that might be developable in the long term and writing them into our plan. We don't have to do that. Our plan really is met and we had bankked properties from the third round which is great. So the strategy for this next for for as we're in the fourth round while we've already
met our obligation is to really identify ways to keep chipping away at you know smaller sites. how how do we how do we how do we put you know you know how you know smaller smaller projects that are just integrated into you know into neighborhoods or into the downtown
building. So just really maximizing the tools that are available in the law. Um I think things like accessory dwelling units it would be preferable to wait until the state acts when the state has a pending bill that is moving very very slowly. uh and so that you know things things like that will we'll be in a
really good position to look at these emerging tools to prepare for the fifth round and hopefully be way out when is the when would the fifth round 10 years 10 years of so I guess 25 205 I wasn't sure if it was from this year last year there was a gap
period between round yeah four there was like a 25 year round or something right it was quite a bit so thank Thank you. I appreciate I just because all of a sudden it's going to be like hurry up, we have to do all this stuff. I just wanted to use this as an opportunity to get it back on our radar.
Any other questions? Right. Seeing there's none. We're going to move to item number two, which is the liquor store of operation. So, this is an interesting one. Um this came up uh there as you know um at a
request for one of our local businesses had requested could we stay open beyond our what has been our historic practice of 10 p.m. um the very persistent person you know so you referred mayor referred this to
public safety there wasn't really from a public you know police standpoint they didn't really seem to have much substance but then it was discussed also atomics economic development at which point um if I'm not mistaken the consensus was there was some receptivity
to extending the hours to midnight uh seven days a week um from 10 to midnight One minor complication in my narrative was in looking at the ordinance kind of in preparation a little more closely. The language is ambiguous to say the
least in the ordinance and both, you know, myself, Aaron, and other members of the term all can make credible cases that either, yeah, it's currently allowed till midnight under their current language. It's currently allowed to 1:30 a.m. or it's currently 10 p.m.
So clearly there's some language reparation that but rather than try to debate what it currently is, the practice is 10 10 p.m. Uh there's a debate as to whether or not 1:30 is or isn't uh allowed um or midnight, but the
discussion that the the committee had was for midnight most days with the exception of New Year's Eve. Um and so I guess I'm going back to the original intent of the item rather than trying to parse the old language. It's probably better to survey the group and hear what
your comfort is because come what may, even if we decide it's 10 p.m., it's going to be our recommendation that we update the ordinance to make it much easier for anybody with an interest in this topic to um interpret this the hours of operation because there is a
lot of ambiguity. I'm sorry if I may. And just to kind of clarify, even though we're there's some variations in the time, there's a 10, a 12, a 1:30, the one thing that I I we've all kind of brought this in conclusion is after 10, it's wine and malt liquor. It's not alcohol or license. Yeah. So
even if you extended past 10 or if you wanted to go, if if we wanted to read this and say, "Hey, 130 is good to go if that's the way you we can make that happen." But your liquor would still be like a liquor store could stay open, but they can't sell bottled liquor. They can't sell vodka. They could sell beer. they can sell wine. They just that's the extent of it. So, they're going to have
to cut some of their sales at some point. Um, and the the only other thing I would mention is the 130 is the hour in which a bar can pour for on premise consumption. So, that's where that magic number I think came from. Um, and that's
been the case. I look back, this ordinance hasn't been updated since 1991, just to just to give you that history there. Um, and then it was like late 80s was kind of when it was established in various forms. And I think a a cons a consideration should be
made now that we're losing right aid and possibly losing another liquor store. that that that consideration should be considered when the decision is made to extend should you decide to extend to extend the hours that that should be done because we they have less place to
spend their dollars in HP and I would like to see dollars stay in HP. Oh, I forgot one thing just if I might real quick. Um the one of the requests of the economic development committee was to speak to the other operators that is is you know is this just I mean we
don't have that many so it wasn't a huge task. So we reached out to Kenos which owns a bar but also owns a liquor store. We reached out to Park Liquors and um and those those are the two that really met the half the dis the off- premise
sales you know primarily and uh Park uh Liquors which is the one next to Park Deli are right there was very interested as well. Penos was on the fence but they have the bar so they could sell they can sell beer from the bar after the you know you know so they it was the benefit
to them they weren't against it but they didn't just didn't see it there. So, I just thought I'd share that in case that was important to you to know. Yes. I'm sorry. Um, just a basic question. Are we looking
at setting two sets of hours? One for package goods, you know, on a sea, you know, a plenary seat and then a broad sea, which is package goods and and and a B and bar service. Are we looking to
divide or treat buying in a package good store for takeout versus any and you know the bar stay the current ordinance is that way and so I mean that's I guess I would but but I guess I guess that's that's up for discussion if you want to
distinguish them or not. No I I think we should but yeah but that's how it is. It kind of sets it up for on premise is these are the rules off premise these are the rules but then the language gets a little contorted in between have to do a lot on no matter what we do we have to
do a lot well so what I was going to say is is I mean you have options and you can kind of go in any which direction you want if you choose to make any changes to the ordinance I would recommend that when we make those amendments we clarify what is for on premise consumption which is like a bar
versus off-remise retail and what is, you know, silly things like what is defined as a malt liquor. I mean, we can all look it up and we kind of know, but it's always helpful those things are in. So, some of those structural changes, I would, if you're going to make any changes, we should clarify them and make it easier to read. So, the fact
that we're all sitting here and kind of going, well, it could be this or it could be this. We can clean that up regardless if you choose to make No, I would like that very much. That make our language very clear so there's no ambiguity. Yeah. But then the next question would be if we're going to if we're going to do that if you want if you want to make changes that's now the
question that's being posed. So at economic development we we thought 12 would be reasonable. We didn't think one was I think that's a good time too. Question on that though is that package goods or on premise package station on
premise would be till 1:30. So then the question would become because then there's that that third bucket which is I am a bar but I can sell a packaged good. So you can sell you see you see what I'm saying. So I go to the bar the bar is open until 1:30. Are we going to liquor? Do you want just a retail only
location to close at 12 but the bar can can continue to sell a package? Good. If someone wants to leave at a one and grab a sixer on the way out, you know, but I think that's the that's the carry part that you can't carry out. Well, that's that's where I say that's a little and that's what the clarification that's the
clarification. So, as you because then we're saying two different things and and we need the language need to be clear. It does and and but you can and and I only throw it out there to say that there's there's another bucket they may want to look at. So, you have your I'm only a retail store. How do we treat that? I am a bar. How do I treat that for on-site consumption? And then that
third bucket is I'm a bar, but I also have the ability to sell a package good. How do how do you want to handle that? You don't have to. You could say, "Hey, look, package of goods, midnight, that's be all end all. If you're a bar, you can hang out, have a couple cocktails if you want, but at 1:30 you're leaving empty-handed." And you can do that, too.
I like that. Um, for me at least, what I would say is, "No, you can take I was watching all the booze jokes." How about a tap in your basement? Never mind.
No, I've cut back, guys. Okay, I I will uh uh what I was going to say was I think that it just my opinion would be that is well generally broader is that the state alcohol laws are kind of uniquely restrictive and basically
archaic. So, I'm in favor of kind of loosening that up a bit. Um, and for me, I think uh now that we've clarified the the three different buckets, I definitely want to leave the inservice at 1:30. I'd be open to pushing that back. I don't know if that's allowable under state law for anyone's interested
in that. I'm okay with that, but 130 is fine. I think that's basically fine. The liquor store that only exclusively sells uh liquor retail. Um, that Yeah, I think we all agree midnight is for that. And then I guess for the new bucket that you just introduced, um, can the bar that's
going to be open till 1:30 also sell package goods? I'd say let them just do that till 132. I mean, I don't think it's it's an unfair advantage advantage. It's an unfair advantage, which is probably where that language came from was the bar was able to do it and someone said, "Why can't I do it?" You know what I'm saying? So, can I just
throw one more wrinkle in? Because one of one of the things that the ordinance amendment, the most recent amendment did was it basically gave this kind of exception language, you know, that kind of gave depending on how you want to interpret it. Um, some of the benefit
that the bars had, i.e. stay open past 10, but then the flip side was true on Sunday mornings. It gave bars the ability to sell off pa off premise during 9 to 12 on a Sunday which I guess
is legacy you know God's day kind of stuff. So, you know, I wasn't I was more we were more focused on the how late they stay open. But I guess to if since you mentioned this, you know, like giving a strategic advantage, the
ordinance as it stands now allows uh bar to sell package in the morning on a Sunday. Um but not poor. You still can't pour 9 to 12 package. Um, and so, you know, I guess I was focused more on
let's not mess with the start times and just mostly focus on what, you know, clarifying these end of days because that's where the confusion came. But I guess you mentioned that, you know, I wanted to be clear that we did give the bars some ability to have in 1991 uh to
start selling a little bit earlier than they used to be able to to in parody with the package groups. At least that's Terry's interpretation. I was not there. You didn't have Mad then, huh? Because Matt has been like,
"No." Uh, if nobody else has another I I'm in favor of the later hours, but I think I have a practical question as well. I'm not sure that I like package goods till midnight. I think package goods we should expand it to maybe 11 and service
till 1:30. But is there a real market at 91? We have three liquor establishments. It's up to the business owners to stay open as early or late as they want. I'm just wondering if realistically there is a more and then
that's just more of a Let me try to answer it this way. the emails that the numerous emails that I've been getting on this one particular subject and at least 10 phone calls when he decides to
go a day on this one particular subject. So, um I started kind of to because it became too much for this me dealing with this one individual. But then they he went out and got an accompanying person. We have like three really places in town
that sell, you know, stores that sell. So, the two that really sells that we're looking to this with the Pino Pino has a bar so people can stay in Penos and drink until 1:30 and that's fine. They just can't sell hardly on the other side. So, with that said, they were
asking for later hours because they went out and they were so kind to give me an ordinance from another town and say other towns are doing it why Cape Lake. So with that being said, I think it Are they on our borders? Yes, they're on our borders. Okay, so bordering towns are
doing it. So with that in mind, I I think a midnight would be fine. I don't see in our little sleepy town that really locks down at 10:00 at night, I don't see a lot of people driving out to make this happen and you keeping staff and lighten, but that's not my decision
to make. Our decision is to say, "Okay, we looked at it and in all fairness, let's give you the two more hours to stay open." Penos, um, they're a poor place, so they can stay until 1:30. So, let's let's be fair to everyone and give everyone an opportunity. Yeah, I think
that they they think there's a market. Oh, yeah. I know Stephen Siobhan, I was just wondering how everybody else felt about it, but I'm good with it as long as it's consistent across the board everywhere for everything. No more. They were so kind to give me those
ordinances. Yeah. You know, if it's a Tuesday with the letter Y in it, then one o'clock and you know, if there Sunday is the only one that's Sunday, just like Bergen County, no shopping on Sunday, right? The blue one. So, do you want to eliminate that as well? The
Sunday, the Sunday thing? No, I would leave Sunday alone. Okay. Yeah. I want to open up Sunday. Yeah. I'm trying to maximize flexibility here. We're trying to maximize alcohol. I'm trying to maximize what it sounds like. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. But I think I mean there's what's the real logic
behind keeping it for some but also I also kind of just getting back to the other point like I know I get the unfair advantage in theory but it's just to clarify was that what the existing um interpretation and practice of the ordinance is now that penos would be allowed to um or I guess park pub I don't know if they sell package goods
but would they be able to do that till 1:30 now they would be pulling that back to align everyone. I believe that was our interpretation of it right now. Whether or not it's accurate, but that's been there's been no prohibition on that, right? And I just don't see like I'm not sure that there'd be that many
cases of of folks that are looking to buy that way. And also like so we're we're helping out the the businesses that don't have that advantage now. I don't think we need to kind of like pull back what you know. And again, I don't know if they're selling a single package, but I kind of like the idea in case if someone out in town really
decides they need something last minute, one o'clock in the morning, they they would have they don't need to be drink. They need to be in the bed. They're already at the bar. I don't care as long as it's Well, well, but what does that what does
that mean to the Sunday morning? So, do you want to change Sunday morning or you want to keep Sunday morning? I don't care one way or another as long as everybody's treated the same. Okay. So treated package goods are treated one way and pors places are treated the other way. So all package goods are one way and all poor places are another.
Treats everybody the same. It's up to them to do. What about the third bucket that is penos that is both? What do they get? They have the one side say you know what they do nowadays. Yeah. They're they're pretty scrupulous about telling people,
you know, you can't bring stuff in and you know, I've been there a couple nights with slaves and they said, you know, we're closing up. So, you know, that's up to them. That's up to them. But I think everybody, as long as everybody's treated the same, we're taking our America back. Everybody's
going to be treated fairly. What I will say is I don't What? One second. Attorney, uh, Council President had a question. Uh uh Terry had mentioned with the exception of New Year's Eve, what does that mean? There's no limit. New Year's Eve, the bars can
stay open, I think, till 4:00 a.m. And then this is the language that was another confusing part of our ordinance that I thought that they could stay open till 1:30, but it might well ironically even though I think it said 1:30 every other day except New Year's Eve was
midnight, the selling of package. So, it's it needs clarification, but New Year's Eve, the understanding is it's a late night. The the both establishments types of establishments would be, you know, um what do you call it? Uh staying open a little bit later just because the
midnight nature of the evening and and mayor, in fairness to Matt Hers, he's had his hand up a couple times. No, I'm sorry. Um I'm I'm interested to understand better the con the context here. Um, I
personally am not ready to just walk into a meeting and start talking about liquor hours without any knowledge of this discussion except a bullet point on the agenda. So, I am I'm not prepared to move forward. U, but I would like to know a little bit more about like, you
know, prompted it. Do constituents want this? Do Highland Parkers want this? Is this something that people want? I mean, it's they're going to be the only establishments open late at night, you know, except for Akihi. Um, you know, which is open at 1:00 in the summertime sometimes. Uh, so that's I think that's
something that I'm I'm I'm definitely considering. Uh, you know, and I'm not I'm, you know, I have I have opinions. I have, you know, opinions about this stuff, too. So, we all do. Yeah. And I want to you said something that made me wanted to I should have led with an apology. The reason this all I had
intended to get you guys a memo I don't know what our hours I don't know what our regulations are as we're discussing it I'm realizing and I had that all and I got really hung up on the language and then I invoked Aaron and they got hung up on the language so I had intended this to be a much more structured
discussion so I do apologize and there's no need that we have to come to a consensus tonight without more information what are the current what do we currently have I had I had it all teed up and I couldn't make the grid because it I what I really have to do is
say here's our practice. Here's what I think the ordinance says. Here's and then that's where I got stuck. And so the intention was to have a memo that you would have looked at in advance and I just I I couldn't do it because I needed to and Eric didn't get it until
Friday. So, um, so what I think I was going to offer is maybe we should table it until we get all our languages. I would have pulled it off the agenda, but I thought let's let's let's let's possibly table it until we get printed documents in front of everyone. Clear
language. I do want to say that going into this, I am fine with the hours as is. I just want to say that. President, didn't it go through two standing committees? It did go to the committee. Yes. It went to public safety and it went to economics. But we're going into the
summer and the holidays and this is where they make the big businesses and we're going into one meeting a month. This isn't going to h happen until when? So I think it won't happen till August.
Yeah. So I think we August we go to one meeting a month. We still have June and July. Are we in a hurry? Yeah, but by time we go uh we're still in discussion. Um by say by the time it gets to the the next meeting which is June, get on the June agenda
for continued um conversation. Work session agenda work session agenda. Work session and we meet once a month. Then first thing to if it moves forward then the first would be first reading would be July and second if it's going to be finalized would be August.
Yeah. How would you feel comfortable having a memo that we could discuss prior to a vote in June or July or do you need that? I'm just wondering what the Would you prefer to have another work session on this or is the memo that Terry can create is that something that we can move forward because it seems to
me like we're we're relatively close to a consensus and I'd rather move forward with something before waiting till August if we can. And it seems like we could do that with a memo ahead of time. I have a feeling that the public is going to want to know
about this and it's gonna want to see this discussion in person. I have a I just I just that that's my sense. Um but I think that that's also you know I I think a memo would be fine, but I'm just wondering why is there are we in a are we in a time crunch? Is there a hurry?
Just check if I may. Um would the this would be done an ordinance by ordinance, right? Not resolution. So we'd have to have like the one that's why I'm saying three months really to get this done. I mean there will be opportunity for public comment plus like this was on the agenda tonight. I don't know if we have
anyone on Zoom. Um uh we don't have anyone here. Uh no but you would have to bring it up for first reading after we did second reading. That's why I say August. I guess kind of sensitive to both positions but I think um both Matt's positions. But I think um I mean maybe we have some time here to kind of
like since I think like you said like we're getting close we have a little more extended discussion kind of like lay out again I guess the sort of the um what the very try to go over real quickly what the again with the um existing hours think the existing ordinances and
requirements are and ours and then maybe try to resolve it right now. I I think I I I think I agree. I think that once we have a memo, structured memo proposing what it is that we're trying to do, then if you need another meeting, another
work session like this because it came out of both committees, public safety and economic development. And if we need another once we table and say this is this is what it is and do a layout. If we need to have another work session to discuss, we should public safety and economic
development. So basically the entire council has has has had their eyes on this ex. I have not. Are you on public safety? No, I'm not on either of those committees. So I am unprepared to even discuss this issue and I understand but when things go to committees it comes to
committees and from both committees that discuss we discuss it here and we're following all the rules as it pertains to discussion. It sounds like everybody else discussion and it we're following all the rules when it comes to discussion and this is where we are. We're at discussion. We fell short.
Apologies that we did not put it in a memo format so everyone would have an opportunity to digest it. What we're suggesting is that we will put it in a memo format with everything broken down so everyone will have another opportunity to look at it. But um three people on economic three on public
safety. They discussed it. Um so I alone know then I mean but I'm saying like what is what is the purpose of this? Why are we The purpose of this is that I know you got some emails from an operator. I'd like to hear from the operator that maybe they should Well, maybe you should go visit the operator. No, maybe they should come to us if they
want. The operator did come to us twice. Twice. Yeah. Just I mean he he has he's he's come for public comments. He's not shy about coming here and giving his opinion to where to council meetings. Council meetings. Last year. Last year. Over the last
year. Within the last six months of last year. I I think it's at least three to extend our hours. Yeah. I would have to go back and look. Yeah, I mean other issues too, but I remember he made the case. He did. He did. He had some other Yes, he had
some other issues, but but he added that in there, too. I mean, we didn't discuss this at our goals and objectives. You know, we had no heads up about this. This was I saw this on the agenda and that was it. So with all due respect, council member, when the goals and objective, this was
not a goal to extend liquor licenses hours to midnight. That was that would not have been a goal because that's an established rule. One of our one of as govern as as you govern the town and we govern what we do. We listen to what exchanges people have and what their
needs are. And a merchant has come to us, two of them now, and say this is this is something that they would like us to consider. They provided ordinances from other towns to say here is what other towns are doing. We would like to be in the competitive edge of doing
business. And this is what they proposed. With that, I took it to economic development. And then I was concerned about what is the safety of making sure that no one gets heard in town if we're selling liquor later. So it went to public safety. So that's why it went to these two committees. And
because you are not on any of the two, that's why you didn't hear about it. This is why we're here in a work session to discuss all of it. So now you're brought up to speed. I'm taking responsibility say we fell short of not putting a memo together and dist distribute amongst all so everybody
would have had a fair opportunity to have read it. What we are willing to do now is to get that memo out and just a complete breakdown of what is the current rules are and what is being proposed and to see if we could keep
that advantage the economic economic advantage here in our town rather than somebody going to New Brunswick or Edison to purchase. If we keep our people here purchasing that's hopefully more economic development for for our merchants and our business businesses here in town. just real briefly. I think
that's a good compromise and maybe to so everybody has has the same background. A very very short summary of you know there are no there aren't 20 liquor stores in so it's a good thing and a bad thing. U
maybe just a short summary of what what the history has been of you know people requesting it um so that everybody's up to speed on the memo is half drafted so that shouldn't be a heavy lift. It got stuck on New Orleans. You kept it up to get that circulated. We try to even
today in our meeting, we we're trying to get the there there, but we didn't get the there there. And we're still not at the there there. So once we get clarity on the language about poor, not poor hours 1:30, 12:00 at night, we'll put that out there and everybody will have it. I want to make sure that everyone
feels that, you know, nothing is being rushed and everybody's comfortable with what's being said or proposed. Sure. So, it sounds to me like like I guess the hangup with the um ordinance is that it's just very vague and kind of just maybe outdated and unclear. So, I'm not
sure if it's worth investing too much time trying to unravel what that mystery is. I mean, but I think we understand that the established practice what we're looking to, you know, clarify in the ordinance. Um uh but where we are right now in that practice is uh at 10 o'clock
for retail then 1:30 for poor and then this that it's 1:30 for the poor. So it's like two weeks. We don't get I my interpretation is it doesn't go there. You need to see that a little different. But do we know what the practice is? But I think our practice has been we haven't
weighed in on that. Okay. So that's sort of just a I guess a question mark. So I guess then the only question is really where do we think it should be? Um today there was a mention of checking with ABC to see if there any rules around that. Um maybe our attorney um
you can happy to do it. Thank you. Appreciate that. So we can get more clarity so we try to take away the ambiguities that that we're currently facing. Yeah. No, we're happy to do that. Uh get you that information, include that in the memo as well. Yeah, e either way, whether you choose to make
a change or not, I still think it's a benefit to suggest changes to the ordinance in terms of just clarifications. Even if we say we're going to stay with exactly the words that are in there, but we just want them to be easier. Um because I think that that adds to a lot of the confusion one way or the other. You know what I'm
saying? So, at a bare minimum, I think we can all agree that that should happen just so we're not around this table a year from now going, "How do we I need to read the orders." Yeah. You'll you'll you'll stare at that sentence a long time. It is really it's the it's
semicolon. Send him a copy of it. It's semicolon and then something. All right. Yes. So we get a copy of the old with the update to what proposed discussion from tonight. But the but the committee suggestion is new uh midnight.
Midnight. Correct. Yes. We we Yeah. No, we we'll have all of that in the committee and every because it came from both. It's not just it came from all the both of the public safety and economic development. Right. As Terry said, public safety wasn't, you know, we were
more concerned about, you know, the and that's why I sent it to you because I was like, this is a public safety issue, you know, let me discuss it with the chief and see what the chief says. So, I sent it there and I sent it there. So, okay. All right. So I think it's only fair that we get everything in writing,
send it around and then if we can move on from there then decision can be made and no reply or just make a decision. Okay. Any other discussion on this one? So the consensus is we'll get something this week a copy of the old
ordinance with the proposed and the updates. Thank you. And the adjacent town ordinances please. That would be helpful. I think I have it. So I think I definitely have Okay. I have the one but I don't know if you Yeah. Whatever they
have Edison. We got Edison's very we have All right. We're going to move on from that. We'll table temporarily until we get the language out. Human Relations
Commission Black Life Matters. And I'm going to turn this over to Council Member Jason to just add a few. Um, yeah. So, I think the uh impetus behind this was the uh the
recent removal and I guess maybe it's not too recent anymore um of the the large uh Black Lives Matter mural on the road in in DC. Um, and as a sort of uh, you know, as a desire to um, touch up our Black Lives Matter uh, mural in
response that has been No, no, no, no. Clarification that has been in discussion since last year about redoing it. Okay. Um, kind of I'm still newer to the human relations commission. We just started discussing this a month or two ago. Uh, but um, I know that was sort of
like maybe I guess the more recent like urge to like kind of move this forward. Um but I guess that like context of um it um becoming a bit more shabby over the years with normal wear and care um and a continued commitment to affirming
that value that the commission you know unanimously agreed that we should move forward and uh get it looking uh right again. It's really all there is to it. I think it more or less speaks to it and
and um I know Norma uh took a look at the proposed resolution, cut a few things that we could clean up. Um but I you know I and the commission only recommended moving forward with um the repainting and touching up of the mural.
Council member, do we need a resolution to repaint it or can't we just repaint it? We don't. It's it's let me try to put it this way. I'm not sure if we need a resolution to repaint it, but I remember when we did it, there were some people in town that
was not open to having it there. And one person took a truck and ran over the paint while it was still wet to make sure and so they said that um it was just done by the mayor. And so therefore, we're trying to build
consensus here to that's why it's here and being discussed that we do this. So they see that we are supportive and that you know we want this is something that should the entire governing body say yes to this is something that the governing
body feels strongly enough about and will support and we'll do it in a reszo form so they can see consensus across the board. So, it's up to each and every voting member of the council to say yes, this is something they want to see move
forward or not. Oh, council. No, I just I thought you might spin. I painted you. I say yes. I mean, I I um I think we're jumping through hoops that we don't need to jump through. I think we all agree that we if we're going to have a mural, if we're
going to have something that stands for something, it shouldn't look like crap. And so I I would hope that we can just agree that painting it is a good idea. And I I don't I guess I'm still not sure why we need to do all the other things. We should I think we should It's It's in
our purview. It's on our street. We did it once before. It's the same resolution. I think we should paint. We didn't have a resolution when we did it. it was in the middle of COVID and this was done. There was no resolution when it was done and so because of the the
back and forth and back and forth we said let's do a res or an ordinance to say this is what we're going to do and move this forward. So we are clear on what it is that we're doing. I think yes attorney if I may and I maybe this help clarify. So I think there's there's the initial question
which is from a structural statutory perspective does something like this necessitate a a resolution and to that question the answer would be no it doesn't necessitate it but I I personally and and I I agree with the mayor there are times where I believe that putting things on resolution and
doing them in the public even if it's not required still has an added benefit in that it it gives the appearance that not only the council but the public was involved in the decision- making in the process. So the resolution here is less about the financial requirements and
more about the symbolic nature of this is why we're doing it and this is we're doing it as a governing body and it's not a one-off. So to that's a lot of the reasons why there are times where I'll recommend resolutions for things that we don't need it because I just the nature of it makes it like a resolution would
just be a better course of action to do it. I hope that clarifies it a little bit Stephanie has a question. Um, so is there any Don't be throwing on a little point because I can't see your little tiny
um is it any financial cost or are they going to take it from their budget? Well, no, I don't but my understanding is that there's not even any cost that will come out of the human relations commission's budget or like the arts commission who volunteer to help support and and uh perhaps do the painting work themselves. Yeah. Um I believe we have
paint available to do this and volunteers willing to step up to do it. So no there should not be any financial cost or some unforeseen circumstance and we want I think it should I think it should be a community event where you know you get a cross-section of our
community coming out and supporting this you know like we have supported just about everyone in town a whole cross-section of um the various communities that we have here we've been there we've been supportive so I think it's going to be similar to coming out and supporting all the various communities with various issues from
time to Council member George. Um, for the volunteerism too, the art collective was the one who originally did it. Um, they would probably donate pick up a bunch of
inexpensive paint brushes and gloves for volunteer, you know, members of the community to come out on the whatever day we pick to do it. So, we could probably get that done. Um, so I was under the impression that it was a collaborative effort between the Highland Park Arts Collection and
the Arts Commission. Yeah, it was a collection of It was a collection. It was a collection of All right, fine. Yeah, because I know the arts commission has been talking about this since last year. Um, but they're just waiting for the go-ahad and and so because since
last year they've been discussing this and wanted to see this happen. So, so they can, one of the ideas that they had was, you know, they're fine with painting it as is, you know, um or if you wanted to be something do something more creative with it, you know, they
can kind of jazz it up a little bit, you know, could put some quotes in the letters that would make it more meaningful. They had some ideas that they can they can they can be artsy with it. They can be artsy with it just to make it like a more colorful mural. They'll be happy to paint it the way
that it is. Whatever they can collaborate with the human relations. The last thing in the world I ever want to be is an art critic. I like it. Look at it. Council member Jason. Yes. I think that had already been floated with the human relations commission to discuss that. I think they landed uh more or less on just trying to keep it
as simple like uh you know pure kind of message as it is. Um so I'm certainly I'm open to this. I'm kind of like agnostic on on a lot of this as long as we get it done. um in terms of the process whether it's resolution or not. I'm kind of curious. I guess it sounds like there may be um
some concerns. I'd be interested in hearing um what may be the harm of not or forailing the resolution. Hi, council member. Um it seems like so when I look at it, it looks like it's
like not centered. Are we able to center the message? I don't know. I've never paid it that much attention. I guess the art the art should take a look at it because it's in front of Bora Hall, right? Yeah, it was.
I mean, it's more in front of Borole than it probably isn't even shift over time, too. Um, yeah, that that's a good I mean, I've noticed that I can pass that along. I think some of the letters need to be like moved up so
they're all even. If we're just repainting it, then that's one thing. But I wasn't sure if this was Maybe it shouldn't be even. Maybe it shouldn't be crooked because that's how life is. I think it should No, it's on one side of the road for very mayor. Wait, I'm sorry. You know what? I I should have been clear. It's on one side of the road
for a very specific reason. Yes. And I'm wondering I would love to see it in the middle of the road. I don't know if that's possible, but let's let's see if maybe maybe that's something that we can figure out. All right. Sorry. So because we started with we're repainting. So now we're kind of expanding it to altering
and redoing it and moving it and making it larger. So the only thing I will caution is and and going back to the initial question resolutions and there's usually a cost factor to that. If the project goes from we're just touching up the paint to we are going to hypothetically uh seek a new artist and
engage people and then go to bit. You know what I'm saying? might if the cost of that project with all of that starts to get well above the you know the threshold you may then have to go out to bid which would require a resolution. So just kind of keep that in mind as you look at what you want to do with the project. No I don't think we were
looking to just sort of like yeah take it to that kind of scale. Yeah. We just wanted to put it back in proper form and so whether I I kind of misunderstood where Matt was going maybe in terms of alignment. So there might just be some additional touch-ups but I think we weren't looking to go beyond that. If it's just being painted, then no then
it's not an issue. I'm just doing it then, you know, it should be properly centered. I just comment on all the options. So if if touch-ups is is going to be way cheaper if you wanted to commission a brand new project and paint over whatever that's a different beast all together, right? We're stay we're staying simple. We're retouching. No,
no, that's fine. I just wanted to make sure that my my initial piece of advice didn't get misinterpreted into a oh my god this became much larger. So just to kind of give you the full spectrum. I think there's also an interest in doing it soon. I think the human relations commission is uh is looking at timing it
so that the event you kind of display and showcase it would be the Junth flag flag raising event. So a larger redesign would delay that. Yes. Yeah. Oh, that's great.
Um I know this is like off to the human relations, but do we we have so many murals in town. Who manages that? Is it the art? They're private. their private commission. Oh, they're private. Okay. Okay. Council. Um, so obviously the, like I
said, the arts commission would be more than happy to just paint as is or do something more creative, but I think the consensus sounds like we're just we'll just retouch it. Um, regarding the resolution, um, I had submitted some,
um, some corrections um, for the resolution. So, can you share that with all of us? Yeah, I think they out of the No, it's fine. We could send it. Yeah. So, I mean, I don't know if we want to discuss the resolution itself right now or
corrections. Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, I think they were kind of technical corrections like there's a few details where like the date was off and that kind of thing. So, like I think like for me it was just sort of like you I think they were just like but everybody got it. Everybody got it. Everyone should
take a look and if they have, you know, any other feedback, I My apologies. Well, I missed it to you the first time. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine. Yeah. I I just felt like in in reference to just making sure that in the resolution we it was listed that the Highland Park Arts
Collective was the one who did it. And I just feel it's important to name the parties that all the party all the entities that were involved in actually like the art commission and the human relations commission. Also, it stated that it was painted in the spring of 2021. It was actually painted in June of
2020. We want to make sure that we have those dates down. And I just felt that it was really important that because it was done after George Floyd and George Floyd was killed in May of 2020. So, the resolution also state that it it's said May. I feel it's very important to put the actual date that he was killed in
into the resolution. May 25th. Yeah. Because I think those things kind of matter. So if we can make those changes that we can review it. Yeah. Okay. Oh, but so where are we now? With all of that being said and
with it's not resolution. Yes. The she got the resolution. Okay. With the adjustments uh of time and everything else. That's where we are right I think. So just let me know if you are collecting any more discussion. Oh, I know one one
uh uh technical issue came up was in terms of the paint that we use. They're interested in maybe making sure that we're using the appropriate street paint that'll last longer. Correct. The record that was the one thing in the whole thread that bugged me was we used road paint. That is paint.
That's why I think the beautiful orange color uh is because that is what that is. There's still a big glob of it in my garage. Somebody said it was slippery. that that it was road paint, but there are some additives that get over. So
that's why they thought it was there's some it's like shark paint or something. Yeah, but that's it. But it may not work with road paint. That's an issue. We used it when we did those little murals with uh the NVP program, but those were taking regular plate and adding an
additive. So we don't want to do anything to screw up. It is road paint. It is street qualified. I think the skid mark I think when they saw the skid it was when that individual that lovely resident of ours decided to run over and to to destroy it. So we
should block off the road when we deal with this. Yeah. Security. So that's why when we say H has no home here. He has a home. All right. Anything else? All righty. So, uh, we decide what
you think. No, I know. She's like, I'm done. So, we're going to move forward so we can get this done for next month. I'm asking soon as possible. Yeah, because they want to get it done before. Oh,
yeah. June. Yeah. It's only a month away. So, can we do you want us to try for next Tuesday? That's what I'm asking. That's the question. Yeah. I mean, we have it sounds like we have between HRC and Norma's feedback the the basics for
the reszo. Okay. All righty. Any any other f any further discussion? Okay. Seeing that there's none, we're going to move to public discussion and we have no one from the public. Anyone the public from public? We have no attendees. Okay.
All right. No formal action will be taken. We have no attendees. See that? See that no one may I have a motion to close public participation? So move. May I have a motion to adjurnn? So move. See you all next week.