##VIDEO ID:t1SmD113F-4## this mean is called to order in accordance to the open public meeting act notice of this meeting was provided to the home youbute the star Leisure and the Highland Park planet on January 8th 2025 and was posted on borrow Hall website at www.hpborrow.com and on the bulletin board of Bor Hall 221 South fth Avenue Highland par New Jersey and has remained continuously posted as required by law by exit are to the right and left of council chambers Council woman bger could you please Le Us conratulations [Music] Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay roll call Mayor Foster yesc member George here council member H here council member H council president Kim Johan here council member pistonic here council member Vargas here attorney La here here [Music] items on discussion is review of The Rules of Order so we're gonna hop right to it and um go return yes so all right because you're new for Zoom purposes that is so just everybody just speak in a good voice okay so that's the microphone so here and project gotta all right no problem all right so today's special meeting was called just to go over the new rules or the changes to the rules of order that you all have um adopted at your reorder meeting on January 7 so I'm not going to go over I'm not going to read out loud to you every little thing you guys can read um but I just wanted to go through the changes that were done to the Rules of Order so section five so the references to Redevelopment entity meetings on page two have been removed because essentially Highland Park does not have Redevelopment entity meetings anymore everything is done during their work session or during the general Council uh General general meeting sorry um so that's that was removed um under Section the new section six open public meetings act one two page three essentially just details um the 1 two 3 1 two 3 4 5 six six seven eight nine instances of when and this is just right out of this open public meetings Act of when the council can go into executive session essentially the uh Council needs to pass make sure they pass a resolution to go into executive session have the discussions and have a resolution to come out of executive session and then go back into their Public public meeting just one quick question so we can have say we're having this meeting and we we say we need an exact session to do whatever and then we come back out and we can continue on with the public yes but you need to have that you need to have the executive session published before correct um so you can't so tonight we can't go into executive session the public doesn't have notice of it but at your next general meeting or your next council meeting if you need to have an executive session then you can notice that and then come back to the public notice it to the yep okay yes that's good to know so number B yes matters the disclosure of which would jeopardize receipt of federal funds yes can we jeopardize the receipt of State funds um you're asking her to speak on to defend the statute I mean I don't know it's not in this if it's not there I suppose we don't have you know what I don't I should have the uh public I should have opma allma memor I do not unfortunately um but I will look into that and get back to you but usually if I would I would assume yes but I don't want to sometimes you know what happens when you assume um okay so quorums and I think there was no no changes made to your quorums attendance requirements I believe if that's something I think we should we should talk about the attendance requirements okay we can talk about that absolutely okay so every council member must attend every meeting and participate in the agenda to for in order for the resolutions and any ordinances to pass um this is especially important when it comes to your bond ordinances because Bond ordinances require two-thirds approval of members present um so unfortunately if we don't have a quorum then resolution can't get passed bills can't get paid employees don't get paid uh let's see uh any office of any person appointed by the council if you are going to if you fail to attend or and participate in any meetings for a period of eight consecutive weeks which is right out of the municipal vacancy law um then you are considered to be then you are considered to be vacant and and you can be excused if you want to if you're going to have more you're going to have unexcused absences from the council the council does need to approve of your continued absence like if maternity leave like we maternity leave exactly maternity leave or health issues or you know just so it's on the record right I don't needan to be no no no not at all please that's what I do um every me member must attend every meeting and participate for the agenda to pass we just need a quorum don't correct correct makes it sound like everybody has to be here in order no obviously and we obviously we don't have all council members here today also but we just you can't be abusive of it you know if you're going to be continuously absent you know the you know members of the public voted you in to do a job right and we want to make sure that you are here and doing your job right so like if you miss one or two meetings that's okay you know if you have to go on vacation you know that's okay but if you're going to be out for an extended period of time if you're going to be missing several meetings in a row you know we may want to consider passing a resolution to excuse you from the meeting so that way your spot is not going to be deed vacant and then we'll you be subject to removal right so my I guess my question is the language is the the first sentence says every member must be there every time and that's not really the case and then later on in order to excuse the member's absence the majority of the governing body must pass um a resolution every time we're every time we want to excuse a single absence we have to do a resolution that seems a little excessive I consecutive no I don't think we wanted to I don't believe that was the intent to every time you wanted to go on vacation to get a an excuse I I don't think it was either no it's not yeah I think there's maybe a bit of a disconnect between as much as it's a bit misleading the way it's written any members anytime we want to excuse a single absence we have to do a resolution that's the way it seems to be written okay and and the first one seems to be written that everybody has to attend every meeting and I don't for the agenda to pass for the agenda to pass and so that I don't want anybody to I don't want anybody to look at that and say there was no res so like if because we have one coun member here them ask the entire resolution so we can definitely um since this was already been adopted we can we can do an amendment we can absolutely do an amendment yes we can absolutely do an amendment on this that's not a problem all right so our our amended language is okay and what we can do is just I have a question first oh okay no I I'll let you okay yes um so what we can do is if you want to do it at the next general council meeting if that's okay yes we we can we can make the adjustment in line with absolutely through this any amendments that we want to do we can get them passed at the next meeting we can't do it tonight right no no no um also in that first sentence uh every member what must attend every meeting and participate for the agenda to pass the way it's line I understand what it means is you can't do business without a poort I understand that and Har would just explain that but but maybe the language we have to pass the agenda and some councils do that they vote to accept the the mayor proposes the agenda but that's a different form of government non fure uh but the way it reads is it could it it sounds like we have to pass the agenda instead of passing resolutions on the agenda or is doing the business okay y just to clarify that okay so we're going to do correction on that one when it say at eight consecutive weeks is that eight consecutive meetings no it's four meetings I I need Clarity that's St from the statute that's straight from the statute so it is meant to be eight weeks I believe yes I believe it is so say for example we have standing committees that meet yes and if you if you have your Council meetings and then you have your standing committee meetings is that included in that eight consecutive meetings I would I Clarity on that I would you will get clarity on that yes yeah the statute is it's council meeting I believe it's Council me so it's not even work session Gover body no this this is a public session this is one of our meetings yes but not your not your committee meetings that doesn't constitute a quum okay yeah it's meetings of the government governing body s work session govern meetings yeah yes okay I just want to be clear on that nope absolutely um write a little not anything else that we need to look at this a little bit more careful before we move on for attendance requirements so the and just so I'm clear to is the the need for the majority governing body is for those extended eight per more than eight weeks in a row that's so just to make that clear yes just want make sure yep and uh I do think the second sentence probably needs to be revised too in light of Matt Phil's comments that if the agenda cannot pass the bur cannot that's a different form of government it's not our not appable here we I'm gonna I'll take that one out that's not our form of yes absolutely keep record keep bang um okay after I don't think there's any changes to that hold on hold on try to go through oh that one is okay recordkeeping after call to order the mayor's going to the mayor will request the clerk to call the role and know the absence is um if if the meeting has started and a council member has walked in we're just going to note the time that the council member has walked in and the clerk is going to keep a record of attendance again just to this goes back to your attendance requirements make sure that you're not going to be missing several meetings you know more than consecutive weeks essentially um in the absence in the event of absence of the clerk and Deputy clerk the presiding officer shall appoint a clerk Pro Temp oh interesting okay so for example Moren would fill in correct so or if the or if Jennifer is out and Oran is out then be she was wearing many hats at night it not fun because I was like Zoom I was right next to you so I could feel the tension to done but now we know the official procedure yes and so again the language and one sentence above that it says the clerk will also keep a record attendance of you know herself uh the attorney who shows up and also the B administrator to make sure that they're also in attendance at these meetings um the clerk shall perform their duties according to according to their Statute in New Jersey as we know you know Jennifer is already a registered clerk she knows her job um she's going to publish and keep the minutes of all meetings [Music] and and then you guys will approve of any of those you guys will approve of those minutes after the after your next meeting regular meeting order of business I think this is let's see okay so here you know you call to order salute flag salute roll call approval minutes reports then we're going to then we go into the there are two well there really three chances for public participation um depending if there is a second reading for an ordinance um the first public participation is only strictly those that are listed on the agenda then it's going to then you'll have your ordinance reading then you'll have a separate public portion if there is a second reading ordin um if an ordinance is on for a second reading they get a separate uh for public participation and after the resolutions are passed then then there is a separate public public participation uh second or third public participation in which one the public can come up and speak for 3 minutes for I think three minutes per speaker and I think it's supposed to be no longer than 21 minutes total that's the first that's oh that's the first one okay the first the first one so the second one is three minutes per speaker i Phil I think the section needs a little clarification we all understand the sense of it and and and how it works but it actually it kind of what number are you looking at I'm looking at section five in article three on um the public participation I don't I don't want to change it section AR section four article section four yes article four section one yes Section Five Section Five article four section she did you Did We R some place else yeah cuz I'm like where are you we're not there yet we'll catch up to you I have a question on the quum though um what section are you though still are we one Forum yeah okay we we're on Section Five Section one are we just going through Section we just did we just did the regular meaning order of business article four section one section one and okay so my question was on article four section five oh you jump way ahead of us well we were talking about the public participation we did yeah because that was just in that was in the regular order meeting of business that's where I talk about that um all right I understand the sense of it and it really doesn't change anything but the way it's presented um I think it needs to be spelled out a little more carefully that there are two public SE two public discussions one Li the first one limited to the agenda and the second one for any topic any speaker um and then because the public participation in an ordinance is by Statute yes and we might have six second readings yes so and there's that would make you know six ordinances plus you know plus two public sessions right so I think the ordinances ordinance discussion should be broken out just to make it clear because a member of the public reading this might say well you know are there you do you have three sections do you have three you know if I want to talk about an ordinance or can I talk about um you know the school board when you you know but we're talking about the ordinance for a school bot I just think it would get confusing I think just needs to be clarified a little bit it out some more yeah just a slight change yeah the first the first sentence the public shall have two two P two two times for every meeting there will be two times for public comment yes with additional public comment for statutorily required just the way it read you know you could read it as there's three public sessions there's only three public sessions but there could be you're right there could be multiple and the other one that I've debated for many many many years and I don't know how anybody else feels about it because sometimes I feel like saying five minutes is more than enough 21 minutes 21 minutes it's just odd number because divid so does 30 you know just an idea so do 27 I I believe so I I believe the your um public portion um with the each each member of the public show three minutes each to speak with one with a total of 21 minutes in total to speak I believe that is out of your ordinance so I know put in what many many years ago wondering how people feel about 21 minutes I you know we all feel differently about it at different times but there have been times when we've made a motion to EXT stand for right well we have that we have that emergency valve if it ever Rises but it's pretty rare that I feel that it does I feel like we're usually well under 21 minutes and then if and if we approach it then we certainly can always relax s is open till we run out of time right correct right we have it until till 9: and then if we there has been times when we choose to we vote on extension so if that should arise then we can always vote to extend if we need it so your public meetings are statutorily you put it in your public notice that it goes from 7 to 9 okay okay and then if we need an extension then we extend you extend it yeah long are the days when we here till 1 o' in the morning you lot of items to discuss and that happens absolutely um okay anything else in this section anything else in section five no okay uh section six um council members are expected to refrain from using personal cell phones during the meetings because it can look it it gives off a bad impression and it can look a violation of the open public meetings act if you are all on your phones you could you could just be texting you know your spouse at home saying hey did the dog go out yet but someone member from the public can view that as two Council people having a conversation with each other about meeting about items on the agenda so it just doesn't look good so we encourage you know put your cell phones away during the meeting don't be on your phone and also anything that be advised that if you are if you are conducting burrow business on your cell phone that is subject to Oprah so just be just be knowledge of that you know be aware of that so the council member is our to step away from the day if you need to if you need to make a personal phone call or yes I would say you know step out absolutely because the appearance give the wrong appearance correct so it would make sense that you step away yes absolutely and use um so use of our cell phone our personal cell phone to it can be operable absolutely you of your cell phone can if you're conducting business on your personal cell phone it is subject to op and how long would they take your phone away for that as long as I need to get the get anything off of it wow a forensic mirror copy of your phone and they have everything every okay that you have on it since you bought it oh my God that's a lot oh wow so wait it's just like messages but they wouldn't like touch your WhatsApp or your Instagram or it's just everything on your phone everything yes all your contacts all your photographs all all your emails by the way if you get your emails on your phone yes they're on they're in your phone it's like copying your computer correct so if but anything that is personal on your phone like pictures of your family or pictures of your puppy your puppy that's not subject to Oprah you know already looked at exactly that's true I would draw everybody picture of my you know my new puppy if I had one um the attorney other attorney or judge would have access to the entirety and the enti of your personal stuff would be shared with yes so just the client yes so be wary and um any you know text messages you know if you're conducting burough business if you're conducting burough business on your personal phone it is subject to oer plain and simple someone can make an OP request for your text messages someone can make an OP request for any emails that you have on your phone if it it's involving borrow business so and our borrow phones that's it's already exactly it's borrow property it's Bor property so it's so it's definitely subjective because it belongs to the Bor absolutely absolutely Condor business unor equip equ keep keep your Liv separate be a lot easier in the [Music] lobby we just just it's a show piece it was like remember the old day and then look at go what is that yeah a cell phone train station all right and uh last last one section seven um please ensure that you are on time for your meetings all your meetings always start at 7 o'cl please make sure you are here at a little bit before 7 by S because again if the meeting starts if the meeting starts later if the meeting doesn't start till like 7:30 7:40 that could be again appearances it doesn't look good it could be a violation it could be a potential violation at the open public meetings act because we paid notice to the public that it's starting at 7th and then we're not starting it till 7:45 or 7:30 so just be on time but everyone was tonight so I think we're good keep it through y exactly all [Applause] right um work session the order in section one is not the order that bring that usually do um the public comment on this agenda is after the discussion so oh okay so then we will amend those and whip them around yeah um any items that any resolutions or ordinances that have to be prepared again this is probably more for you know Administration side um we have to make sure that they get to Jennifer the Monday the week before your work session meeting so that Jennifer has enough time to assemble your packets send them out and um and review if necessary see um number three um except says except for routine or emergent matters no discussion items may be listed on the agenda unless it's been brought through your standing standing committee for recommendation for your ah excuse me to the full Council um we just had a discussion on this oh did you should a council member have a question about whether a matter is routine or not they should consult a consult your standing committee or the administration for that purpose um again because once the agenda is set we really shouldn't be adding things to the agenda until um if the agenda's already been published went out there what are some of the exceptions um emergent emergent matters um that's pretty much like EXT extreme circumstances um I could think of a couple of items um God forbid if a God forbid if you have a fire breaks out in one of your buildings and you need to immediately pass uh appoint uh excuse me contract with the Demolition Company to take that building down for like anything that is for public health safety and Welfare like that's I that's sorry I couldn't think of it healthy and Welfare health safety and Welfare um or to so but Norm to add like a regular contract um we can't add those because that's not considered emergent so anything dealing with the public health safety and Welfare we can add or possibly if there is a gap between the work session and the regular meeting you know we would call an emergency meeting to get that done so say if we God forbid that we get 30 Ines of snow and we run out of funding for we need to emergency appropriation for funds any but it has to be like a real like emergency 30 inches of snow maybe maybe again you know typical lawyer answer it depends that's all I could put okay okay okay all righty okay anything anybody with any other question session because we we get these requests from members of the public that they may have or one of our board commissions that they have an emergency thing that never went through and now now it's like the emergency and they need it two days before the meet or they need to meeting up so those are not those are not emergency Cann no no if it doesn't that's a three section you call it uh uh the three eer Public Health safy and Welfare yes public health safety and Welfare yeah let's see uh mayor this is just uh again this just is also out of um the fauler ACT um the mayor presides over the burough Council meetings and you know you shall you know preserve order and decorum during the meetings if people get out of hand you can interrupt and kind of bring back everybody um to yeah to order thank you I'm sorry okay um can I ask a question about section five jumpping we're done no se the same section of of the mayor section yeah mayor it's a wait wait wait I like the part where it says the mayor shall say who can speak over that part he just like okay we don't talk about that [Laughter] that's true so so if you do have like a point of order you know again following May recogniz a point of order you know address the mayor and then the mayor will call on [Laughter] you sorry go ahead up can I didn't speak anymore um section five the mayor shall not make promises or commitments which bind the council and the council can't bu what is it how do you make a binding commitment without a vote on something like what is like you got an example of how I could B how any of us could bind the the mayor or the like I think this is like a strong mayor weak counsil kind of like oh I just thought this is another instance of maybe this just not being written very clearly it kind of suggests that you can do it but I think what they're saying is you shouldn't make those kinds of promises or commitments as if you could bind because you can't it's not leg binding I guarantee you that they're absolutely gonna pass XYZ resolution by six to zero I guarantee it you'll get your contract you're going to get your contract or you can or you're gonna I'll make sure that you'll not a great example but the only one I think could pop my head I apologize but yes absolutely the administration can hire you and appoint you you know and hire you as a new police officer for Highland Park you know which is exactly so because she doesn't vote okay it's us that wasn't it okay sorry sorry like council member hilkin said absolutely you know my uh my cousin brother friend is going to get this job without da D I'm going to talk to the mayor and it's going to be okay I'm going to talk to the mayor exactly and the mayor comes and say oh yeah sure don't worry about it that kind of thing I think you're right that you can't the way it's written suggest so we need to twe the language on we need to tweak the language to make it clear that it's not possible you can but you shouldn't I would delete it okay yeah I just it goes out beyond the realm of Rules of Order into an ethical code I we drop it but I think in in some towns this is seriously needed not my ours but you know there are towns that that are in this tickle because of they didn't follow this rules that's neither here nor there but think I think it's an eth it's part of an Ethics code it's not these are Rules of Order how you run your meetings how you pass through laws how you determine finances and what everybody's role is in doing that this is an an ethical thing and we have an Ethics Bo so I think that I would delete it I think I think it should I think it should stay fa there and some parameters around it because say this this Council goes away and someone else comes in then somebody say it's silent on that and I can do whatever I want and what it should do that is delete directly and say um shall not make promises or commitments to anyone which by inference would be Bing would influence the bural council's vote because you can't bind the council to it but you can commit to their vote that's what essentially what you're doing is you're cons you're committing to their vote so Rel language it to take out directly because directly is irrelevant okay um and by by inference or imp implication guarantee the burough council's Vote or something like that is more appropriate okay I like that council member here yeah I mean the only thing I would say is is we could say the burough Council and the mayor make decisions in formal vote sessions not in promises or commitments made outside of formal meetings or something I don't is that flipping it to sort of say I don't know I might stay away from it a little bit but I see where you're going with it like we passed resolutions authorizing the mayor and the burough clip to sign contracts you know or the burrow administrator to you know hire subordinate employees subject to um confirmation by the mayor or the council so but I see where you're going like that I I was just wondering if there was a way of saying like all business of the bureau and all business of the council is done in formal business sessions yes implicate or or or which is open public meetings act say something like so in accordance with the Mee so it's inappropriate right it's inappropriate for the mayor or the council to make promises or inferences that Bine the council outside of formal meetings yeah that's that's actually statutory that's why I'm saying I don't municip Municipal yeah it's okay in title 40 I think it's 49-15 why was this here like what is the I like what's the meaning behind like why I know I'm sure it was put in because someone did I mean look around the state of New Jersey was this added this was no this was this has always been here this has always been here and I don't know we don't know how long it I don't know how long been in here for that's not one of the new changes no nothing was changed on this is just one of those things that sits here because the only thing that was added was to flip it and may can't Nei May promis mayor and counil cannot promises to each other essentially so I but I I don't know why the original uh mayor shanl make promises or commitments um probably predated the local public ethics law that's that could be very possible that's why I would delete it but that's just my opinion mayor SL coun canot good I would keep it it doesn't hurt to have these kind of like good you know Poli PR in place reminder but definitely needs to be rewarded so it doesn't suggest that it's even possible that you can find a bough Council through a false promise right no that's true I would yeah I would but tweak the language we can tweet we can definitely tweak the language absolutely all right let's see yeah oh mayor shall provide approval of regular regular work session and a special meeting agendas um the mayor shall consult with council president administrator bur administrator and burough clerk on a uh bi-weekly basis concerning agendas um and we'll ensure that all non-rotated items have been duy considered by the by each uh standing committee before allowing them to be put placed on the agendas I spoke a little bit about that earlier yeah we did we did so again anything that is non routine um needs to go through your special committees needs to go through your standing committees before they get placed on the agenda okay um matter can be added to any regular meeting if five or more members of the council make the request through ccil president to have a mayor at it and items five out of six I thought it used to be four out of that's pretty high bar yeah it I think that I think that's why because again you want it I think you want it to be like a higher bar anyway that way we just can't start adding things to the agenda right yep um any items added to the any items that are added to the agenda shall not be presented for a vot vote by the council until the full Council reviews the agenda item at the next work session meeting okay let's see um borrow council president um at your reorg meetings you know you vote for a new council president every um at at your next annual meeting um see acting mayor so one year so and that's a question that we we want to go back to um Haron um you're you may not be you're not familiar no no no the council members were saying um that they wanted was to extend it from a one year to a two-year um council president serving because one year you're just really getting everything together at the end of the the year so to really delve in we we were suggesting that it would be a two-year not sure if everyone was on board with that I'm just so to make it a two-year the council president serves as two years or something like that something like that I would Advocate that you can't have it be for a two-year term when you have a new Council constituted every year so there could be a change and a change of opinion they could always change the rules anyway but I think what a number of us were discussing was a two-year limit I mean personally I would be okay with a long limit like three years or so um I'm open-minded on that but I think that's more long l so that like you couldn't serve for too long as council president so and I think we T like we yeah we definitely have this conversation that we could there'd be more rotation so that everybody gets that kind of experience I think that was that was I thought that was the intent as well is it I'm sorry can I talk see he has a problem with that room yeah take that out excuse me president council member H has the floor the rest of us whatever um I think I think the intent was to just have turnover and to have and and I I could go for three but I like I think that the the intent that we were all talking about was that we ought to rotate Council presidents after two or three years that we shouldn't have a council president who's there for 100 years um so one for for two or three years that was our intent so um I had a question about that too uh you know I thought that the thought was that to limit it but I also agree with Jason that the council reconstitutes itself at reorg and I don't and I think you have to elect the council president reor so that the twoyear so it's actually a term limit as opposed to an appointed term Bes because you might have somebody who's whose term actually ends and so theoretically on December 31st they certified and then sworn in again because they're not a council person right right right so you know I I would be um leave it that they they appoint it every year but if you want to do the term limit I'm fine with the term limit whatever it is two or three we'll have to also take a look at your ordinance to make sure that that yeah we may have to find have you to amend your ordinance our ordinance is is in line with this our ordinance is in line with the one year yes it is in line so we may have to so if um I think this is where we all should you all should have a discussion because I don't get the vote so you all should have that discussion I'm I I I think there's the one value of two over three years and I again I'm just playing this out right the one value of two over three is that three is the entire length of a council term right and two would stagger it potentially a little bit so you do a two-year term then you would still have a third year or you could have a third year as just a council person that it's a small point but maybe that helps the transition processes or something like that because you what if you had someone who had who who got elected and did a three-year term and then disappeared like and there's no institutional memory or transition into two-year term you're always going to have overlap and with an overlap that means that the current council president knows that they're gonna be not council president after two years and presumably they can anybody who's interested can go to the council president tell me about your job what do you do something like that I think we should also put like if the current you have the two years that that person couldn't run again yeah well right well that's a term limit put it as a turn limit yeah well they would have to step away for like you know if I did two years and then like I would have I couldn't go again for another I would need to step away someone in like in the middle then maybe you can go again but so you take some time off but say for for example what if somebody nobody was interested then you would B thinking of a certain council person that did this for yes and it was like exactly nobody else was nobody it and there's times when it's like so much to somebody else up right yes I could see having an exception though because if the person wants to stay on and no one else wants to do correct or they're ineligible but the default could be that it just sort of turns over then you can have it so that you would be ineligible for the next whatever the math would be six eight years until it' be your turn again unless no one else wants to do it and you are willing to do it I think I would just stick with the term liit as a term limit and stay away from most all the rest of the parameters because I think that Dynamic generates itself I don't know that we have to say it's absolute or mandatory other than saying the council president serves for two years so huh so what would that do or somebody else they can't run again until somebody else runs or they can't run for consecutive two terms I don't think we need that that much rigor to it and just say the person elected to council president Shall Serve for two years period I'm give that yeah well that's what we like informally yeah that's yeah I think formal they're elected every year but they have a twoe that way everybody plants right yeah and then they will be you know it's maybe a technicality but in their second year at reor they have to be nominated again I think that's statutory I think that's yeah I think so yes yes yes we reorganize every year right so what if the person steps down or they lose their election do they fill the unexpired you point somebody else amongst the council somebody El the counil right the question these that for the remainder of their two-year termo it start another term yeah or it could be for the remainder it starts another one next time get two years if it's the the middle of the second year of the term they get to finish that half year and then get a fresh two years otherwise then you're gonna have it always be in the middle so because I think most of us have filled an unexpired term at one point in our career because when when Susie passed then you know we had that in the middle and it was in the middle of her term that usually I'm sorry like any or if there is a vac talking about like regular vacancy you know that person fills the vacancy and then they get reappointed so I think just to try to be consistent so you're not you know reappointing members in August yeah that's why why I think I think it should be consist just fill just fill in the vacancy and then yeah and then you you and then at your next reor you can get another two years exactly it's like if you're filling a vacancy that doesn't count towards the correct correct correct you're internship you're doing an internship you're probably okay okay uh acting any more questions before I move on from so what are we doing with that is that being changed or no yes we're change fill the unexpired term then that's it let call anyone wants three yeah all righty all right um acting mayor if the mayor is absent uh from the borrow for more than three days um you shall notify the council president rating of the intended action and then the council president then becomes acting mayor until the mayor's return if council president is unable to act safe she's also away at the same time then whoever is the longest standing member is acting oh that's why it was philed that one time I thought I thought Phil just volunteered no no no it's the the longest serving person again I don't want to I don't want to go through like every single one of these I don't think it's there's nothing new I don't think any of it's not new yeah if it's not new I'm just trying to like I just if you could go to section six and just let this dig into Oprah a little bit see where we are with that I think that's the noest thing because Oprah is always changing that's true oh sorry all right council members comments are construed as the voice of governing body on public issues um council members uh when speaking or if you're using social media again if you're using if you're using your social media as part of your as part of your title you are subject to the open public records act so again things that you if you have your own um uh Facebook page Facebook page thank you I can't I'm sorry I'm struggling today um if you have your own face if you have your own personal fa uh your own Council Facebook page that can be that can be subject to Oprah wait sorry your own Council face what if you have your own Facebook page that you had prior to counsel I know it's it's hard it's if you have a person I'm sorry to jump in but I just wrote a policy for Two Towns exactly on point which is now required and if you had your own Facebook page the college one one second one second and then I'm gonna go to council member George no that's fine um and if you disagree if you have something else you know please you know more than welcome to have a conversation about this as well um if you are again if you are conducting business on through Facebook if you're using it as part of your as like you're wearing your hat as a councilman then I would say yes it is subject to Oprah but whatever happens on your Facebook page prior to you becoming a council member that's not subject to Oprah I would not put that as subject to Oprah [Music] his eyes went yes I got another cve for you if I had a Facebook page before I was a counsil member yes when I first came on counsil all I did is post on Facebook okay and then I hit myself in the head with a hammer and decided that was a really stupid thing to do and don't post a thing anymore is there statue of limitations where I get my Facebook P now that I used it once a year like when I first started literally I did a lot of posting right right I tried to communicate on Facebook and then it doesn't work and so I don't do it anymore correct can I take my own Facebook page back and it's not operable anymore is because I did it once it's always operable you did it once it's always over what if I trash the Facebook page and start a new one that now you're going into you're running into State records retention rules wow so you I I I I I apologize I don't know the state records retention schedule off the top of my head I know there have been change I believe there have been changes recently that talk about social media on this um but I can I can definitely look into that for you um when your pages can be deleted and any Communications from those pages are allowed to be deleted so and how they can be deleted as well because there's also rules on how you delete things you have ask you have to ask permission you just can't go three years are up delete if it's a public record you have a public record to apply for this you know through darm or state record not Dar anymore but so say for example um I went on my personal Facebook page and I said um what were you and I said something thing about you know um so I just said something like really off the- wall but it's on my Facebook page but it's about the counselor it's about the burrow that's operable it can be operable again like it's I don't I don't really you we can we can dive in really say I went on a rant say I went on just and I was like you know I hate this da and I just kept on going about stuff that happened in a meeting and I keep going on and on and just talking about or that was passed and going into what was said and you know wanted to I'm diing the whole thing all over again and people start making comments and I'm responding to to the comments that's operable that I would say yes that that that is operable now when I when I'm also I'm also being want to be very clear about this when I'm saying it is operable that doesn't mean it's definitely going to be releasable okay there are there are several exceptions under Oprah um that again but on a if it's on a public Facebook page that may be separate but um what I'm saying is it is subject to Oprah but it may fall under one of the 26 some odd exemptions maybe 28 now and then you go the Personnel records exactly so there there's like there's so many different exemptions under Oprah as well that although it's subject to op it may not be releasable so it's we're talking about two different Avenues on this so in other words don't have a Facebook page until you leave Council just be care it's hard the lines the lines get blurred very very easily so again just just be careful you know puppy post only puppy post puppy puy post council member George you had something to add yeah part of what what Matt was saying is you know and there's a lot of people who maintain more than one social media page yes and in a lot of areas especially larger towns in the cities the council members in the mayor and all the directors actually maintain their own social media page to keep people informed and all of that is subject to disclosure under but what council's talking about is I can ask for anything doesn't mean I'm gonna get it have the right to ask for it but what me me when when you have a Facebook page and a lot of us did it I don't have one for any social media for exactly these reasons I keep absolutely none you know because that's all I need is someone going to the law firm and saying well you know so um but like a lot of people started you know when they start a campaign or they're starting to push a social issue they start putting it out on their social feeds that becomes now you've made your social feed opo disclose the B because you're talking about burrow business Bur business campaign business like if you're running for re-election is you separate that and if you run if you have a campaign Facebook page if you're running your Camp if you're running your campaign on I want us to pass an ordinance that bans fluffy dogs I think they have to be [Laughter] banned lot more fluffy dog we're going to be the fluffy dog town information but if you say and I'm running for reelection and I introduced an ordinance to ban fluffy dogs now you've crossed over that line so it really depends depends on how to approach it and um that's why a lot of a lot of big cities have so have it managers that that actually manage yes absolutely it's again it's and you you said the you said the phrase probably like a dozen times just now it depends depends it depends it depends it depends so again the public can ask for anything doesn't mean it's going to be disclosable but again going back to you know page two of this document if you are conducting burrow business it is subject to opra and that is on any your phone Facebook Instagram WhatsApp I don't know any other tick tock tick tock and what's the default when a judge makes a decision what's the default what's the default answer it's disclosable oh it's disclosable oh yes absolutely they're always going to a in the favor of disclosure um question I was just reading um I'm supposed to be running the goals and think session I thought you was doing that no president I see that here right you do it on their duties and responsibilities but it says in coordination with the mayor and administrator that's why we had that meeting yeah I prepared you for it know I'm gonna be like I'm not gonna be here no we'll help you we'll work together we're not she's like wait a second are you serious was the work session so I'm what is that um B page 18 section three of Council presid duties and responsibilities yeah yeah yeah council president will conduct all yeah I'm sorry on three eight the page governance yeah no this is the new one look at the one oh wait was that a chain I don't know no I think it was no I have it on I didn't bring the old one oh no no no it's not a change no it's not it's always been it's there always always always good sir um see standing uh Council standing committees again I don't think any changes nothing with that uh nominations ordinances resolutions oh I'm sorry can I go back to ultra real fast okay and like you know Town groups and different things so what is the proper way to respond right if you're tagged something uh resident a i un trip on this one side here it's ice here you know and they tag uh all the council members here you're talking about like it's on the burrow Town bur page no there is a I'm from Highland Park group like there a group private group yeah yeah a PR a town I understand or burrow page either what do we I would like to answer I I would love to answer but I'm G let Terry answer goad Terry Terry I'm G use your exact example yes you see that on there please email me and let's use that example uh either Mike W from public works and in this case it would be Matt H who's the head of Public Works say all this can you want can you just in case you missed it go check it out because I'm from Highland Park isn't an official you know and you might not see it and busy plowing roads so what I would ask because I care about that stuff at you know safety it's all that stuff but if you see something don't tag hersan me on Facebook because I don't go on Facebook on my own time so I you know send an email text to me alerting me to the fact you saw that don't know if it's true or not but just in case you're concern so I know that's that's an overly simplistic example because I know it's more often more in depth but it's you know the best way to handle it is if if you're concerned about it is to just get it to me so we can route it to the department that has if it's a if it's a complaint if it's a safety hazard thing of that nature um and then we have those forms also on the website you have a concern form each council member have their email address the administration is has an email so people can just voice a concern send it in there because I am not in any of those groups and so if you're saying whatever you're just saying whatever because if you want to communicate with me all my information is on public so you can just Reach Out C followup question on that we used to have the recycle app is that still around yeah love it reporting holes or and it can also it obviously reports out to to to Residents but the the portal on our website report a concern I see every one of those that come true yes and I do I think it's important I I trust the Departments are getting it done but if I'm concerned or if it's a liability issue I tag it and I follow up so I I would encourage you to drive people there uh because it's an easier way for me to track than on soci social media all over the place to be honest I'm not on social media tracking any of that so if there's too many balls I have to jugle so if you send me something and I get a report of concern or an email I'm on top of it that's where I got to let my focus don't even look on better off just good way to ruin your weekend that's for sure you wish to commit suicide you go on [Music] there uh anything else on this one did did we answer your question yeah yeah yeah okay great okay rules of debate in theorum again we've already been through this again the mayor you know the mayor runs the meeting make sure that everything is Mayor run mayor's going to sure that everything runs smoothly and 11 again 11 I thought we standing committee yeah but there were no there were no changes to standing committees what is is a um ex offical or whatever that is ex official Yeah official what is that ex official member so yes the mayor just attends the meeting she doesn't have a vote essentially she's just there she can go to everybody's meeting but she can make a qu attorney explain no not understanding committee and nor she can make a quarum if I believe there's only three Council members that show up but that's again that goes to the Farner Act of when when you guys have airum these are just regular Mee these are just regular committee meetings can attend all of them so if three uh council members are there and she shows up that's fine not a standing committee I'm talking about the general I'm talking about your Public public no this is under standing committee this is what this said can I have uh Terry one second I'm sorry I just this one is came up a lot prior to Mayor Foster and what our practices I'll tell you I'm not going to tell the law or the those order is the mayor has all the committee meetings on her calendar yes I ask her not to come if she really wants to come she's got to give us 48 hours notice so that we can notice the meeting that we may have a quorum there um and so that's our practice so she does know like if Public Works is meeting tomorrow at 8:30 uh but do know she doesn't come unless she has a concern that she wants to bring to you and she would reach out to whoever the chair of the committee is and let know or if I had send an email so I guess she has the right to do that but we have we have a practice of noticing those meetings if we think there's a chance we would have a quum now I don't know enough about fauler acts and this and that if that is or isn't a quorum but that's been our to be on the side of caution that's been our practice we try to share the agendas for the committee with her you when I distribute them so that she has the opportunity to sit in she feels it's important so um that's how we've kind of navigated that requirement have to be come yelling yelling name so can in the yeah absolutely in the no I gotta be in the no all right anything else on this one standing committee no changes nomination for commission ordinances and resolution anything on boards and commission this is an important one yeah sorry board and commissions about the filling of the boards and commission and I know we were we were working with Jen to like kind of streamline some of it and put the codes on and everything else that's a separate okay [Music] ordinances and resolutions I think that's over that pretty right pretty straight forward adoption and term regarding the rules of Rules of Order and rules of debate and and speaking to the microphone as I always remind everyone and every meeting speaking to the microphone that's why I want question under rules of debate yeah do we want to add in I don't think it's really necessary but do we want to add in the council member shall identify themselves when speaking when beginning to speak for purposes of identifying for under tth and federal law oh wow council member every counc did I just speak for any purposes whatsoever May address oh okay that's a different thing Al you're saying just to uh to identify before council member once recogniz okay uh yeah because that's a new thing yeah it's a new thing we could add that we can add the placeholder so you must identify yourself before you speak yeah just like you know I'm council member George and yeah that's fine we can have something like that that's that's fine that's cool um respondence there no changes there um I I I question yeah under section three Interruption should we add that U members of council or the mayor shall not interrupt a member of the public while they are speaking during their alloted time depends if somebody's being obscene the mayor can interrupt the mayor can point of order point of order point of order but the council members should not because we have time when we just need to act in a certain way cuz at any time I can always use the G and say point of point of to anyone yes yes in order to keep keep the in the meeting yes keep that's that's kind of like the overall about Usain on unless the reason for the not so much right five I think that needs to be I want there that needs to be [Music] struck the only time a member of any governing body has to state why they voted as a planning board when they're voting against the master plan and that's it and I I think that's I think that's it so we're gonna look at number five number five is is questionable yes I think you said said you wanted to remove that correct I would like it remov I can see it's in the old yes I think these are pretty close to the ones Carolyn has on filed downstairs they were they were from the 60s these from the that's before you and Carolyn in 2000 yeah exactly this is like from the 60s probably Word Perfect [Laughter] coding people who are listening like what is Dos okay all right adjournment okay um public comment we done on the done the are we done sorry apologize Noh careful this is the rules oh so this has to go on on like twice which one you looking at she's looking at rules rules may be altered those may be altered or amended amended only by 2/3 votes taken at two so you're essentially doing this like an this is more for an ordinance but you passed this as a [Music] resolution you why don't we just revisit that proced we may have to or our code yeah what is this section two for we need a special committee to consider it first before it can even move to uh a resolution that we vote on two times I should have read in this s she said no she gave some said don't give that ex I no that wasn't another town not that one but that a mayor put each council member has to give me a dollar or something and they all voted on it like reading this now like what we we'll take a look at the I'll take a look at the code you can put it in I think we're gonna have to take all the recommendations and suggestions and then screen it through our existing code if there's any conflict we have to figure out how to deal with flush them outu from 1960s with the 2000 a lot of these we can do and then I guess the question is this whole how do you amend these things obviously we've been doing it by resolution right so we'll have to figure that out yes lock you go through the you go through the Amendments and then you have to have your meeting two3 meeting to amend it to remove this you know we'll figure that out that's why you we got a lot of moving got have two babies to get exactly now you can see why people keep their rules order they're like no there too much work we just keeping what we have it's probably fine the first one when you first adopt it like you can do the normal procedure but then I think the idea is you're locked in for the year and then but if you're going to change it in the middle of the year then you got to go through all this process right maybe what we'll do is we'll look at how this all lines up and we can make the decision is it pressing or do we wait till January you know right yes and and that's and lot lot of this is what we're looking at now because we want to clean up our we want to clean up our ordinances our rules and make sure that for the next go around when we adopt next year that we're in perfect alignment so we can just move forward agre any other questions on okay can we tell H that we voted to get rid to the public works I'm not getting that he has to be recognized oh my God okay Terry when you put it so we can see that out the workup definitely do that yes you'll definitely see the markup that's good all right now it's time for public comments total time allotted 21 minutes three minutes per speakers limited to item on this agenda comments from members of the public attend in person will be heard first followed by those who are attending on Zoom before we go there do we have anyone on Zoom I do have three uh attendeers on Zoom okay anyone from the public who wishes to speak can do so now step up to the microphone identify yourself I'm confused public comment you said public on the agenda or or maybe I confus myself but we're on the public participation you have three minutes say thank you am I recognize please identify yourself Jersey Watcher YouTube channel broadcasting worldwide am I recognized yes please speak thank you um so how many board members here in Howen Park please raise your hand think it's inappropriate for a 10-year-old that a library to go into the young adult section and and be able to open up a book a child pornographic book that teaches one boy to give another boy falatio any show hands you think it's inappropriate so none of them think it's inappropriate um yeah recently I went to the hland park Library I checked the young adult section ages it's through 10 to 22 and they didn't just have this book in the library they they had it as stand that you know gender queer um this book is gay one of those two on pages6 actually has uh one boy it's teaching boys one boy how to give another boy falatio raise a hands anyone think it's inappropriate here in Howland Park Council the the child essentially child pornography are you aware that it's it's illegal to provide children with child pornography raise the hands if you think it's it's dis disgusting to provide children child pornography three different occasions three times say they don't care you don't care how much time do I have left I'm not g timing we got left 124 124 there's a lot of things I disagree with here tonight but I'll request them at another time liit people for for 21 minutes you know so I can come here with seven people and make sure not one Howland Park resident speaks that that's a little bit insane um but I love this town I know it's a good town um sometimes a little bit too liberal is that why you guys are not raising your hands how many of you up there think it's uh disgusting provide child pornography at the Highland Park Library anybody we're just ignoring members of the public members of the public come here to let you know about child pornography in the library Allen Park Library refuses to give out grievance forms they say on their grievance form the only way you can give us a grievance is if you're a res 30 seconds is if you're a resident of par how many seconds 30 and I want to know which which because you guys had the best best lawyer in the world why would you guys REO and coflin Mello when they recently banned the American flag and there's so many news articles of them funneling money and stealing money from all the townships who whose great idea was it to hire cough women the scum bags she's all right though she she was all right but you know you still your firm still ban the American FL hi any other comments from m the public I'm going to choose to remain anonymous tonight may I proceed go ahead thank you there's a lot of things I want to say and I only have three minutes which is unfortunate um it doesn't give me proper enough proper time to actually thank you guys for what I see you guys have good energy I like what I'm hearing uh counil George I believe it is I agree with like almost everything you said very rare tonight and I appreciate Council ha the questions that you Rose up wording and terminology is very very important and uh my fear with the cin Law Firm is that they do these things specifically with I believe an intent to uh possibly um try to have litigation because they play tug of war with people's rights and people's freedoms and in your elected capacity they're playing with your rights by using the incorrect verbiage uh Ken is different than must must and shall are different than can should uh I was arresting in Moet for filming a meeting just as I'm doing here tonight they had a resolution that said you can ask for prior permission tus versus Ken Hill 2007 Supreme Court law gives us a common law right to phone these meetings but I was plucked out of there by the mayor mayor L cisero his son who was the sergeant who arrested me and his other son was the chief and the judge uh threw the case out it was dismissed I followed the motion proed for dismissal I was Grant it was exposed and the judge said uh Ken Ken Ken is not M it's not not sh so when you see must you know what that means legal it's not about tweaking tweaking things because it changes everything when you change the one word uh I don't think it's enough time for the public to speak five minutes I would love to address a lot of the stuff that happened tonight um I have a Facebook group called um government entities at restrict our Facebook pages and townships and um to touch on that uh really what it comes down to is yes those things are operable but the the cin Law Firm will deny those requests as exactly what will happen you have to shoe for your rights um so if you yeah your phones are all open it's true but but they will block it they will not they will ignore the request and then they will have to be sued just like I'm suing for my case versus New Jersey and part of the ruling was Anonymous Communications are permissible within government that's part of the that it's my First Amendment right to come here and remain anonymous and redress my grievances with the government and um I think we really should think about maybe having more than three minutes because 30 seconds I'm under the gun what do we do about disability people who who speak slowly maybe have to process things a little bit more uh councilman Hal I appreciate the stuff that I read about you with um making sure that buildings are 8 compliant in public buildings that's very important I've been hundreds of counsil meetings all over New Jersey I've seen Bri no no wheelchair access for their police station or or their council meeting we had three people who were in wheelchairs they couldn't even get into the council meeting but if they arrest you in Bri they go take your money and man court because it's ad accessible they actually went out spending a half a million dollar over almost a million dollars thank you anyone on for public comment uh no hands up man there're now four attendees just four attendees no hands up okay uh seeing that there's no one else may I have a motion to close public participation so mov zo no hands up oh uh we're only the sorry council members reflect uh R for I need a second second council member George yes council member H yes council president Kim Chan yes council member ponic yes council member Vargas yes okay all right um may I have a motion to turn public um may I have a motion to aurn so move second all in favor good night everyone everyone next movie is