[Music] all right everybody it is 7:30 February
13th 2025 we'll call this meeting to order this meeting is called to order in accordance with the open public meetings act notice of this meeting was provided to the home News Tribune The Star Ledger and the Highland Park planed on February
3rd 2025 and was posted on the bur website at www.hpborrow.com and on the bulletin board at burall 221 South fth Avenue Highland Park New Jersey and has remained continuously posted as required by law fire exits are to the left and
right please remember to speak into your microphones when participating we have a roll call please miss Han here Mr brusher here Mr Chin here Mr hail here Mr Malay here Mr Stern Cardel here Mr
Williams here Mr Thomas here Mr cza here okay thank you very much we have a new matter on the agenda so we the unless anyone has any urgent business
we'll have the applicant come up and present on syc reality LLC 229 and 231 riton Avenue on a minor site plan with C variances and requests for waiver of submission requirements before we get
started uh Matt did you want to do do you mind uh stepping down the application first having a seat in the in the gall good evening from The Firm once woman and spiter
um I know if it's working or not I can hear the the Reverb if you speak to the microphone all right okay all right well let's try like this um so I guess we will just start off with a little bit of a summary well I think that the matter needs to uh Chris do you have a comment
regarding complete this hisory uh yeah I'm just looking for just give us one second absolutely I think the January 6 memo recommended it was completed that's right that's I think it's the January 6
memo one of the three that you had so our first step of the process is jary hearing from our Planner on his recommendations on whether the applicant's application should be deemed complete for proceeding
forward mated February 4 2025 seeking several items on checklist after our lighting plan after lighting plan screening and Landscaping uh environmental impact statement traffic impact analysis and
Street Furniture and Urban Design inventory given the scope of project 176 ft I think the board has more than enough information to be able to act on the application so I recommend the board Grant the requested waivers and formally deem the
application complete thank you Mr Madam chair if there's any questions of Mr ask them now if not uh it would be appropriate to seek a motion to deem the application complete granting the way is requested thank you any uh Mr Chen did
you have question oh sorry I just have a motion to deem it complete oh there we go we have a second second second I saw Allan go first second by Allan a roll call please Mr Brer yes Mr Chen yes Mr H oh
sorry Mr mle yes Mr Stern card up yes Mr Williams yes Miss H yes so with a complete application and we're set to go now your turn thank you um so yeah I guess just
to give a quick introduction um as I'm sure you're all aware we're here tonight for um the Jerusalem Pizza site which is located in the buroughs downtown area at 229 231 um riton a uh so essentially what's happened is that around this time
last year there was an internal fire when it came time to renovate the floor plan the uh backing needed to be increased to uh with uh the adaa requirements as a result the uh kitchen area as well as the seating area was
reduced um so the seating area previously had 30 seats or I'm sorry 40 seats and is now only going to have 30 seats and then the purpose of this application tonight is essentially to create a usable kitchen um so the applicant is seeking site plan approval
for a 176.832 Jerusalem Pizza building um so in Mr kenza's review memorandum um he pointed out that there were a few pre-existing non-conforming uh conditions uh the rear
yard setback from the rear building uh in prvious coverage and the number of parking spaces um Mr Kenza indicated that um should the board de C variant relief is required the applicant would need to request it there is no question
that these conditions are pre-existing um the ordinance and Mr Penza also pointed out that none of these conditions are exacerbated exacerbated by the project um so we contend that there is no need for Relief however um if the board determines otherwise uh we
will be able to discuss that tonight there are also other items in Mr Pen's uh review memorandum which um we will discuss through the testimony of our engineer Mark Leber um but I think it would be best to start with to just give
us some background Ser Square affirm the testimony that you're about to give will be the truth so help you God I do would you be kind enough to state your name spell your last name and give us your address for the record yeah you go it's actually working
now okay my name is Shalom Coen I own would you be kind enough to for the record to spell your last name my last name is c o h e n you first name is Shalom I own a China Le and Jerusalem Pizza and
we bought the building about 10 years ago which is Sy y cal um February of last year we had a fire at J piz and [Music] China uh so we decided to redo all the
restaurants but uh Jerusalem Pizza we started building it we had to comply with the with the restroom to make it uh accessible so they took half the kitchen into the into the restroom to make a big
enough restroom as a result the kitchen became half the size it's not workable so we decided to go out and to fill down and so in order to do so I believe
you uh hire rise architecture to create the architectural plan that we have submitted to the board yes everything we have all the we have the engineers we have the have the plans everything set so can you just give us a little background about what's
on the site so there's two buildings we're dealing with a building in the front there's two two buildings on the right side if you're looking at the building on the right side is the Jerusalem Pizza going next is the to the to the
apartments on the top to the left is China Le on top of the pizza there is an apartment uh three bedroomroom apartment on the left side of that is
another apartment with three bedrooms of two apartment um behind behind the building the main building building is another building on the first floor we use it
for Jerusalem Pizza the first floor on the second floor is the recording studio so just to confirm that first floor is that's storage for and pizza right yeah and so as far as um just to address some of the comments in Mr kaz's
report um that area in between the paved area in between those two buildings what's that used for so that's for parking for my part my morning Park and then no one else is committed to parking nobody there's no no parking for
anybody it's only Street par for the for the customers both of the stores it's only Street Pary and also across the street we have a public Pary also on third there's another public that they can walk but we don't
offer we don't offer customer no and so then as far as uh garbage and recycling that's actually behind the rear building correct not in that area no Recycling and the garbage is behind
back of the second building and it's been taken care of by the township the garage by recy by excellent and then as far as deliveries those are not made on site right they good stop on the street they Park the they have the truck
in the front and they roll in all the deliv perfect I think that that gives us the background that we need if does the board have any questions um I have a question about the uh about when you say um second building you're referring to the rear building and not the adjacent uh Frontage
building okay there's a building in the front and then there's a building in the back on the second floor is the recording St so so yes so the second building you meant the the building in the all right just for consistency
sake and understanding thank you does anyone else have any questions for Mr you can proceed thank you your next next Witness sir that's a little bit louder than I thought do you swear firm the testimony that you're about to give will be the
truth so help you out yes would would you be kind of stage name spell your last name the location of your Offices please hi good evening my name is Mark L mark C L L East Point engineering and
Mar thank you sir can I just check that microphone yeah it's at the bottom thank you better what we think yes there it is much better so can you briefly give the board
the benefit of your background qualifications as both engineer and a professional planer yes I graduated with a Bachelor of Science degree in civil engineering from Drex University and completed the part-time MBA program at Ruckers graduate school I was licensed
in 2003 and as a professional engineer in 2005 as a professional planner and in 2006 I completed the municipal engineering certificate program since then I've worked on both sides public and private side of this uh business uh right now I'm totally on the private
side and I testified before numerous boards uh both planning and zoning and I'm also a qualified witness in Superior Court have you testified and been accepted in terms of your qualifications both in terms of professional engineering and professional planning
yes I I have no other questions any members of the board have any questions about the witnesses qualifications right you can proceed thank you so if you could just begin um by giving us by the way are
these are the same pictures that were submitted as part of the application or are they different these These are taken today then they're different so are they is it a package do you want to Mark individually or is a package and then how you want to handle it let's mark it as a package it's eight photos in total
with a map on the front page all right so there's it's a18 photos and then you'll identify each one correct correct so before we get started just a little background this is block
163 and it's lot 32 it's uh 229 231 RAR nav and it's in the CBD district uh we took these photos this morning just so that everyone can see what the uh current conditions are on the property the first page this is just a
map from Google that shows each photo of the direction that the photo was obtained so if we go over to the next page the photo on the top is the front of the building see on the
top yeah if you hold it this way so this would be the top photo okay top of the sheet it's front of the building just taken from across the street uh you'll see that Jerusalem Pizza is still covered in paper uh that's because there's still work going on inside the next photo
uh which is I guess to the left of that shows the alleyway uh that's about 10 ft wide um and it does span the property line so the building you're looking at is only about 7 and 1/2 ft from the property line but the entire width of
that Alle is about 10 ft you the next page this is at the end of The Alley uh where you could see the white building in the background that's our building you heard two minutes ago is behind us uh then the photo to the left of that is
just a picture of that rear building and you'll notice that the area between that building and the duw pizza building is all concrete or asphalt this site is almost entirely impervious uh if you go to the next page I'm sorry that this picture is
backwards but this is really me standing between the two buildings and just looking left uh and you'll see that there's a large open area that extends behind numerous build buildings along the side street um the building I'm sorry the next photo
is really the most important photo in the application because that shows us the back of the front building including the area that the work is proposed uh if you look at that building you'll see the right side's blue the left side is uh White and the proposed Edition would be
where the paint is white at ground level it's a one-story Edition then if you go to the last page uh the photo um on the right would be looking back down that access alley towards the street uh you'll see again
the back of the front building where the work is proposed and then the last photo is actually taken uh two buildings down there is another alley to access rting over there I just wanted to show you what that looked like that is not used at all by
the appin it's rather narrow um but sometimes pedestrians will go through there to reach the back so that being said um we had put together a set of plans uh the architectural drawing
submitted the addition in the back is about 12 ft by 14.7 ft which is around 176 sare ft again it's really to service additional kitchen area uh you heard the story about fire and the need to extend
bathroom uh another aspect of the application is that prior to the fire there were 40 seats in the uh restaurant now there's 30 seats proposed so from a traffic and parking standpoint nothing that's being done to this building uh
generates additional parking because the way parking is calculated is based on seating so we're actually reducing seating and we're adding kitchen space which doesn't generate any public access so other than that there's no new signage proposed no change in use
proposed um frankly anybody passing by on the street would not even know this addition existed because it's totally hidden in the back um we even analyzed turning movements on our sheet three of our site plan set that depicts a vehicle
that could drive back there and showing that this additional projection on the corner of that building does not hinder in any way a car from turning around getting out um you know from a zoning perspective there are a couple of existing
non-conformities with property I could go through those for the record um so we'll start off with minimum lot area with and depth we comply with those items there's some setback requirements for the front
building this is a zero setback building which complies with the cbd's own requirements um where we don't comply is the setback for the rear building we're required to have a 20t rear yard and we have 8.4 ft that's an existing
nonconformity uh we're good with building coverage but all impervious surface The Zone requires no more than 90% and our existing condition is 97.9% and again that would remain we're good with our building height uh to
two-story building this Zone allows a four-story building and uh gross floor area we comply with that as well now we did do a detailed parking calculation um and it indicated that you know this site would theoretically
generate a e the 37 spaces but I did you know put a bold note below that that there are no parking spaces existing or proposed um it's a non-conformity that would remain and that our kitchen expansion doesn't generate any additional parking
demand there were architectural drawings um which should be in your packets and one of the drawings which was sheet p03 showed rear elevations of what this would look like uh for a person just standing in the back no that
was all part of the plan I say part of the part of Theiss yeah no it's fine it's just a basic one story Edition with some vinyl siding and a neutral color um there the windows there's just a doorway and the doorway leads out to the back um there's a
doorway on the back of the building now that door would you know continue to facilitate movement but there'd be a new door on the outside wall so um just want to see if I skipped over
anything so there's also memorandum discussed the potential uh exceptions yes so there are and I'll just referring to these report February
4th there are a couple items I'm going go to part 6.2 which starts at the bottom of page three actually it's 543 um so I'm on section 5.3 so the
first item is 2301 157 L which is additions are encouraged to maintain sensitive continuity through materials the buildings a masonry building we're going to propose vinyl siding on the outside it's not really visible to the public at all and it's in
a neutral color which would complement the colors of the building uh once the building is finished part 23-1 158 architectural treatment shall be continued around all visibly exposed sides of the building same story it's
the vinyl SED uh outside exterior and 23015 AJ is that cariz on the coursing shall be contined all around all visibly exposed sides of the building well I do agree with that this addition is only 12 by 14 so there's
really opportunity to install any cars on a Hing or anything elaborate here it's the rectangle to J um believe that's further emphasized by some of the photos we just went through
yeah I do want to note that the shade tree advisory committee did send us a letter that requested a tree in between the two buildings um while I'm not opposed to planting trees and we do like to propose trees in this particular instance this entire area is impervious there's
no irrigation it does not seem like an appropriate place to add a tree so we would want relief for request relief from providing a tree back there um and frankly my concern is that if somebody puts a tree back there it's just going to die whether it's through Salt from
snow removal or just lack of water you know being surrounded by a parking area so to say um there are some large trees behind the property which are on the uh property behind us which from time to time have been trimmed but those trees
are um visible in the cover sheet photo that I passed around before and other than that I don't know if there's any questions or if you need more detail on anything I'll be Happ going to answer so with respect to the um sorry thank you with respect to some
of the design standards uh with the addition being vinyl um I think it's our position that we don't need exceptions from the design standards because um ultimately it's there's an emphasis on the Public's view shed in the design
standards and here you won't be able to see it um also the you know the color palette is complimentary however to the extent that uh an exception is required um we could me it you like to about that
yeah I mean if you look at she p03 the architect plan this is just a small unassuming bump out really to an existing building um and they are repainting the building uh there were some openings that were closed up uh above which are visible in
those photos and then that would be painted to be consistent in one color you know because for the most part the almost the entire building's been renovated so you know they want it to be nice and clean and just to go back to those photos
um I'm sorry the go uh where we can see the back of the building which is let's see the second to last page at bottom um we see that there's also a
little bump out where would be the back of China Lee and if um you know we think based on that color palette they would be very similar yeah um so it would overall flow architecturally correct uh and we're doing a very similar PP out on the other
side and something that um you know Shalom could come back up to testify to is that um there's a large price difference between trying to mimic the Stony of the rest of the building um for such a small square footage and um you
know it would be impractical to I think you know enforce this on something that can't be seen by the public are you are you finished with your witness unless you have
questions just for clarity your application said that the restaurant would maintain the 40 seating spaces that it previously had but I think you testified it would be it's going to be 30 seating spaces which is it that might have been discussed after the thing was
filed I'm going to check with how many seats yeah that that was before that was before we we noticed that we have at that was when we filed all the papers
but then after they added the restroom and we saw how much you have to move this way move that way that's what happened to the seats we have to take away from the seats to be able to accommodate the rest of the counter I'm just trying to clarify so your
application writer needs to be amended from 40 seats to 30 seats that's yes and in addition to that there were other amendments goad I want to maybe might be better for the applicant safe just maintain the 8 seats for the two properties combined
and whatever you can fit during construction is what you can fit but just allow you to have the ability at 40 seats going forward be cleaner less to change Yes sounds great all right so we're we're coming around to the
amending it to a statement that the two restaurants combined would have an 880 seat capacity and right now the one restaurant has 40 seats in it that's what we're amending our statements to be for the application yes okay anyone have
any questions now I'm now I'm a little confused uh are you saying that the one restaurant has 40 seats and now you're going the other restaurant that had 30 and now it's going to be 40 or are you saying that the one restaurant is going from 40 to 30 and the other is going to
be 50 so I believe what we're saying is when we originally calculated the parking it was based on there being 80 seats um so I think the idea is that there that the 80 seats will be a maximum but currently um as the floor
plans are progressing last I heard and testified to this that they're still doing tiling um it appears that only 30 seats can be fit right now but ideally if 40 could fit that I'm sure yeah that would be preferred
well there was we'll take a step further um before the fire there were 40 seats in China Le and 40 seats in Jerusalem Pizza right right so I think for purpose of cyclon application that's not changing but in reality there may be less seats you may literally remove a
seat which you can do with or without permits um but in terms of whatever space is available for construction they will construct where they could fit do you're suggesting that the that the ad is reasonable number yeah if that's what
existed before then we should maintain that keeping it on the list of the pre-existing conditions along with the lack of parking altogether that was pre-existing and the uh other non-conforming conditions that were your testimony has been that they were all
pre-existing so the idea being unless you are voluntarily saying that the new construction has to be limited to 30 seats within the restaurant maybe maintaining 80 for the building as a pre-existing condition with the recommendation of the planner and to
sounds pretty good on your behalf and and I just want to understand I I I believe I do understand your position with regard to the pre-existing non-conforming variances are you suggesting also in your report uh possibly that with regard to section 5.3 uh that those three U design waivers
they can be waved uh my position would be the board would have to hear a testimony that an exception can be granted sounds like you heard that so I think the board can grant those exceptions I think and and your professional planning opinion that
doesn't do violence in your opinion to this site I believe sufficient testimony has been given that practicable thank you all right clarification so the photo showed that the white brick facade as almost
unfinished though can you clarify maybe I just heard it that's going to be finished is the bluish color when it's complet that part we left we left because we weren't sure what we're going to do with the the rest of the wall so
we painted the whole building except that part once we know what's going on on the bottom you're going to take care of the rest of the building going to be all the same color they all same color and your addition will generally match the color the China Le add-on yeah beige color right and I think that's part of
the reason to Grant the exception okay and and since I have can you just tell me the the color uh it's going to be one color that you're going to end up having correct yes and just so the record what is that color the building the wall the the top
is going to be the same as the rest of the build that doesn't help me cuz I don't know what the top looks like I would say it's a muted blue color a muted built blue thank you very much okay thank you but the vinyl siding was going to be white so I just like to confirm um I'm
not sure about that we have to discuss we didn't discuss that part yet so would the request be that the vinyl siding could either match the proposed blue paint that the rest of the building currently is or white it can it can be beige it can be
beige and it can be the same color as the yes all right so beige white like in the application or the blue one of the three colors is or or it's definitely beige probably going to be the same color as the other okay and the other side addition
is the beige color the door I'm because the application writer proposed white siding that's correct so would the request be that it could be one of any of the three colors but no more than three I'm sorry
I'm sorry it's all right um so I think the idea is in is that it the whole building including the additions will all either be the same color or the two bump outs will match match of either beige or white or
not hot pink or beond green has to be some some general guidance and no it will it will have to match either will will match the building or will match the other side and and therefore therefore the the building you've already said is going to be muted blue
thank you very much uh so it's either going to be a muted blue or the bump outs will be uh matching themselves but then they will either be white or beige as opposed to a pink or an orange
that's what we're trying to clarify we don't want to necessarily give you and not that we're suggesting you do that I'm not trying to force you to have a white bump out that's just what was in your application the other days perfect thank you very much yeah I know one of those well that's what try to get just
that we're limiting it to one of those but I think that he's now testified that it's going to likely be the the the bump out will be the same beige color that is currently in in one of the pictures definitely not thank you very much all right I like
surprises well if it was in the front of the building I might be encouraging something else no the the in my opinion the nuted blue color is quite lovely right any comments from members of the board on the testimony from the Apple planner
Inon yes I I had a question about uh um vehicles in the back between the front building and the rear building um it looks like from the uh from the aerial photo on this uh first page uh here that there is some use of the space
between the two buildings for parking um I don't know if those are uh people who are working on fixing the building I don't know when this building photo was taken if those were customers um or people who were using the studio but um
it seems to me that those Vehicles might uh interfere with the I guess the turn around yeah the turnaround on sheet three uh I've got uh the big version here unfortunately my toddler scribbled on it
when I wasn't looking uh but uh those vehicles seem pretty close to the uh to the uh drain Inlet and that Inlet is uh right in the middle of that turnaround pth okay what this this picture was
taken today the middle that's that's from from so so that middle car that car is my car um which photo are you looking at car this aerial image was today no no no
sorry just so this one this one to be clear I'm asking about the vehicles it's a red vehicle and a sort of silvery topped vehicle on this uh map with the Red Arrows decorting it could
it could have been that the people who are working at the at the at the store at the at the construction if they were par the car over there it could have been the the the T people but definitely no other people are allow back there's
no customer parking so that you wouldn't have a pro you would not have a problem therefore to indicate that that area between the two buildings would be not for customer parking restricted against customer parking exactly okay for employee parking or resident parking or your own
parking it's all my parking only I park my car there and I come back and okay so it would be limited to the and you're the owner yes and therefore it be limited to the owner car parking
okay okay um uh followup question uh again about uh vehicles in the back I see that there's a um some sort of ramp between this property and the rear parking
immediately to the west of it uh near the numeral five again on the aerial photo it's also again on the uh site plan sheet three uh are you aware of people uh again using vehicles to go in
through one driveway and out through the driveway adjacent to the building uh one front to the left West does anyone ever come near Arrow 8 right across where the red number five is on the front sheet does anyone drive from your
lot it's too narrow for a car to get through otherwise we could have have how do you call it going in this way and coming out that way just to confirm I'm I'm referring to the uh to the driveway indicated by the
red numeral 8 Arrow yeah that's on the last page that picture yes okay nobody uses that uh for for vehicles for okay that's also that's also not
your property right right the one to the left so if a vehicle was going to go in into the back and out they would have to come back the same way they came in yeah so they need to turn around or do kind of an unsafe back up into Route 27
nobody backs up right they need to turn around they have to turn around inside meaning but I have I also own the building next to it so there's a big parking lot back there in case somebody needs to turn around they can go in there turn around and come back up sorry
which next to it are you referring to the that the driveway that you were talking about that's also my building oh it is the one to the right to the to the left okay so two continuous parking or not parking areas there are parking
there's parking areas there too okay so in case you want to get out you can go down there turn around and come back up all right that's that's actually very reassuring thank you any other questions for the Africans
or the applicant professionals did you have anything further you wanted to present to the board I think that it that's it um you know we just wanted to emphasize that you know this is a small project just to get through some pizza back up and running
after they been um out of business for a year now and um we look forward to hopefully seeing them back in business okay I'm just going to make a comment for anyone who is following along at home that because this is an
application for site planine approval we are not taking public comments by zoom on the matter if you do want to ever contribute or make public comments on a hearing you need to be physically present here at the meeting so we always encourage people to come down in the
future so if there are any members of the public present who wish to be heard on this application or ask questions of the applicants um I will open up the uh the matter to public comments for anyone physically present here at the meeting seeing none I'll close the public
comment portion on this application and with that unless uh Chris you have anything further to end I always like to give you the opportunity for this word thank you um we heard commentary that there would not
be it would not be impact it would be impractical put trees even one tree into the rear yard area really the rear paid there between the two buildings um did you say anything about the uh the rear of the rear bu building basic along the
line there there existing trees there that are rather large but they don't into this CER owner they're behind us is that on the property to the rear because I on the plans it's all concrete so so it's not on um the subject
property and something that Shalom could testify to is that he's had to call because the right be right behind the two buildings there are a lot of a lot of tre trees big big huge trees I
recently had to call to cut have him dropped so it doesn't hit the the building damage the building trimmed trimed yes so they were all trimed most of them were trimed so it doesn't um damage the building have an adverse effect on the
building I got it right so our concern is that um if if more trees were to go back there that it would it would either die underneath the larger trees or um create the issue closer as the 8.4 ft behind the second
building is currently paved it's not dirt so the paave would have to be is concrete it would have to be demolished in order even consider planting trees in that space there just yep and then I just to clarify a comment that was made regarding the we
call Alley or driveway on the building on lock 31 which is the property to the West I thought I heard a comment that it's too narrow for cars through but I think reality just the sum circulation that goes through because I think I've driven back there myself when we looked
at Redevelopment at one point so I guess the questioned how do car how do cars on lot 31 exit or even enter the property they come through 231 through So when you say 231 you're referring to
your property my property okay uh the sorry the subject property s serial come through go back there okay should we close off that driveway that's not being used then just to make
sure no one actually uses it that that has to be open for the fire department just a little confused yeah we got a drawing right here can we refer to the uh on the drawing where your jerusem piz is you say you're the only one that uses that entrance and
exit well so the cars behind the other building he just said exit through that one if I can clarify I'm I believe so in response to your review memorandum you wanted to know what this area was used for because it appears like there's parking there um so the testimony was
that the only person who's permitted to park back there um is Mr Cohen however um people are using this driveway to get to that parking lot but in the direct area between the two buildings only Mr pH is committed to park and it is not for
customer parking so he just didn't say they exit out through that is used as a path but I I think we were trying to specifically address the parking that was going on in that area I apologize for the confusion would it be possible to uh indicate with the paint on that surface
like to for nobody to park there so that we don't have again an issue of that one Ingress erance for both properties uh being obstructed by a combination of uh someone who's parking there and the bump out from this proposed
addition so which what you're talking about that parking lab no I think you're talking about the area behind in between the front and back building yes and and having something some kind of marking that indicates that there's
there's no parking permitted yes um I'm not to off tesy but I did see vehicles in that area as I walked past it's in the neighborhood so I'm I want to be sure that there's no circulation uh that what we're discussing reflects reality
and and not oh there's some illicit parking there that uh is unknown to the Africans but known to say resident or a tent perhaps a solution would be to determine a single parking space that is
out of let's say the turnaround radius or something like that that establishes that's where people Park and it says only by wh whomever and then if if it's if it's used as a turnaround Andor a cut through to the other that wouldn't I don't think impact anything but I think
the best thing would be to establish your parking space by C by painting by lines yes and that way there's no confusion and then a if somebody is not there parking there that shouldn't be and you're parking there and then things
get that's it'll make things clearer and uh you know because uh a we want to get the you know it's good to have a restaurant back up and the fact that you're putting in um you know compliant bathroom is great so you know I I think that would be a solution that would kind
of make things clear you know because aot as we can see from the comments we're unclear of who's going where and what's going what this is all one parking space for owner only or designated boom and the rest is no parking to allow for you know egress and
or yeah alley to enter the property he's already strike from the parking so we're just looking for a way to just clarify how people are using this so it protects people were accidentally entering a property and makes hopefully make the fire department happy too yeah just it's there could be another
solution that's just a suggestion it's not it's not a problem and not not a terribly expensive one I can provide a plan for that um one other question since the building this is related to the circulation trying to protect people
I also want try to protect buildings um I believe on your plan you show ballards just can you clarify you will be installing ballards yes okay the The Valor descriptions are on the plan right I just want I didn't hear testimony I just want to make sure it wasn't like oh well we didn't talk about
it we're not going to do it so I just want to make sure well the the any approval is going to be subject to the review to the inclusion of the plants both architectural and otherwise yep yep safety yellow filled with Sol concrete Su thank you um Madam chair if there's no other
questions by members of the uh board just since we covered some additional testimony on various topics are there any other comments all right I am going to open up to commentary to the public once again just to make sure we're covered since we covered new topics for people that are
here for people that are physically present so if there's any members of the public who wish to be heard on this additional testimony that we took they can come up seeing none I'll close the public comment portion on the additional testimony and with that I think we can proceed on formulating a motion on this
application and I think the motion would be for the approval subject to uh the following conditions and they would uh be a recognition of the fact that the U uh quote unquote pre-existing nonconformities are not being adversely
impacted and therefore they are not excuse me uh requiring to end up having proofs and therefore additional testimony or um uh there's no additional requirement for additional variance requirements uh with
regard to the U design standards however there is testimony that has been provided uh and that those design standards based upon that testimony uh can be waved uh in addition in terms of the conditions that I saw anyway uh had
to do with the fact that there would be a confirmation that the building itself would be a muted blue I'll make sure it's muted blue and also that the bump outs would be a beige color uh that would be uh either exactly or very
similar to the beige color that's shown in the photographs that were submitted as A1 uh there would also be excuse me uh a requirement to that the uh area between the front and the rear bu building would be utilized specifically
uh only for one parking space designated for the owner and that it would be signed or or designated as such by way of painting and that there will be also a clear indication uh that though it would not be available for either customers or
employees um and I think that would be the conditions that I saw or that I heard unless there's any others that either a you gentleman or any members of the board they have in addition to it see none would anyone like to make a motion to approve subject to those
conditions oh I'm sorry excuse me I just want to forget that we discussed about the 80 seats as well oh yes that the application is being amended from 40 seats for the restaurants to 80 seats for the building covering both restaurants thank
you all right anyone like to make a motion subject to those conditions motion second all right take a call please Mr brusher yes Mr Chin yes Mr Laris oh sorry Mr Malay yes
yes Mr Stern and card now yes Mr Williams yes Miss H yes congratulations thank you very much thank you very much for coming out good luck with the restaurant this thank you so
much all right with that Mr hail you'd like to come back to our board meeting all right we have few final items on our agenda we have some meeting minutes and some discussion on the rules and regulations of our board I think we
should tackle the rules and regulations amendments first all right we have rules of order believe it or not that govern how our board operates may not always feel that way but they do exist and we haven't changed them in
many many years according to uh how many times we've reopt these particular minutes but with technology Chang we are trying to move along with the times um now that we have zoom participation available for members of the public we we would like to make our meetings more
accessible to commentary for members from home but we Face some challenges due to the nature of our board and our quasi judicial roles that we undertake on things like applications for site variances where we do need to create a a
record when we take testimony on certain matters so there are certain types of matters we can hear and hear commentary from the public at home and there are certain types of matters where people need to be physically present because we have to take testimony to create a record um of the proceedings um that's
for the protection of both the applicant members of the public and this board so in order to do that we've received a suggestion from our attorney with some recommendations for amendments to our rules to allow for members of the public
to make comments on items um that are not for hearings involving amendments to the master plan applications for development or other uh development applications but other other kinds of matters members of the public can't participate in I recognize it's going to
be very confusing for a while what matters can be testified to uh remote uh remotely which are none all testimony must be here but what matters don't require testimony we can solicit commentary from the public at home for example these minutes don't require
testimony so we can solicit commentary from the public through Zoom we are again in a unique position as opposed to a lot of other boards in that situation that we do take that testimony so we have these restrictions on on uh Zoom
participation just just a yes question for myself the difficulty with testimony is the identification of the person calling in over Zoom or something like that is that the real issue uh well it's a combination of things uh pedrick it's
it's the fact that that's one that is certainly one uh it is also the fact that um when you end up having somebody who ends up wanting to make not just testimony but a presentation they are at
home with whatever it is that they want to present and all you're seeing is something on a screen which may or may not be as adequate as being here and and that is that's where the difference comes in my estimation between what ends up happening at a board meeting and what happens at a
council meeting generally speaking I'm only doing this in the case of to get in as much let's say feedback is always a good thing could you not um qualify a person's comments as simply that or
opinion rather than but I I'd love I'd love to be able to do that but unfortunately as an attorney I can't because anytime that you end up having an application for development or you have something that's a noticed application such as a master plan reexamination report or some other or
for that matter the uh reference with regard to uh uh the adoption or or the reference by the governing body back here to a Redevelopment plan those matters are uh matters that are noticed and therefore testimony is taken and just like when the applicant comes in as
today uh they are under oath and uh um therefore you need to have the members of the public under oath as well and you can say well okay you put them under oath and then they can talk yeah you can but unfortunately what ends up happening sometimes is that
they then want to make a presentation and we can't really tell on this on the Fly what they're really planning on doing so therefore in my humble opinion it's up to you guys but in my humble opinion to avoid that that potential problem uh if you really have an
interest in an application it seems to me worthwhile for that individual to be here and then make that presentation so that they can end up seeing what the presentation actually is better than just simply on camera and being able toe uh make their comments
and present whatever they need to present live and in person let's mention if a member of the public wishes to provide adverse commentary or testimony to an application the applicant has to have the right to cross-examine and frankly having an
applicant in front of us trying to cross examine a video screen a video screen if it's even working is no it was mostly a point for clarification and if as time goes on we get a lot of feedback from the public you know rules can be change
next year so this is also true we we can as technology continues to evolve we can approach it as as an attorney myself I'm also very aware that it should we pass something that is then brought to Superior Court for riew having a full
and complete record uh again protects both the applicant and the person who opposes any action we've taken I mean on the way down um I was listening to stuff and I mean this may seem a little far-fetched you you want to end up having testimony from a live person not
an e an AI image no I understand I mean I understand that sounds silly it certainly sounds silly to me but unfortunately it seems like it might be the way not don't say the wave of the future but an opportunity for the future no I'm a big proponent of getting off
the couch and getting down to the burough Hall so yes and I I I very much want increased participation from members of the public I want to hear from members of the public I'm just very aware of uh the record we create when we have a quas quasi judicial Hearing in
front of us so when we take commentary on for examples whether or not ordinances are in compliance with the master plan or not that is not Ely we need testimony for that is something we can solicit commentary for members of the public regarding that but an applicant who sits in front of us and is
making a case for their waivers we need um opposition to also be president I believe brief comment on this um I remember during the the height of the pandemic when we were strictly on Zoom for whatever period of time that was and
we were doing the thing where you were swearing people in over zoom and I remember it was kind of an awkward process because people were used to for example commenting at the council meetings where you would just name and address and then you just go um but we
also did make it work for that time and I I like these changes because I think it's you know it's moving the ball in the right direction in terms of accessibility I do kind of like what pedrick said I would like to revisit this next year and be able to open it up further to be able to formally take
testimony and in terms of preserving a record I do also like that when it's on Zoom there is that handy record button so we have a word for word record of everything that happens whether it's in the room or over Zoom well you have a recording whether you have it on on a
video or you have it on tape that we're taping so the reality is that there's already a recording right so we have right so I think having a record is is be quiet that's yes and that's not something that doing it over Zoom adversely affects we we have we have
record except when technology goes down and I well I'm not going to as I particular I have my positions on technology also related to the presentation and in terms of like something like this right if some there's been cases where a member of the
public comes in and says can I hand this to the board right so would there be a way um to limit public comment even if it's testimony right to say you can provide verbal testimony but you can't provide um physical media you can't
provide right you can't provide uh I don't know what the right word would be right a physical presentation right you can't provide a presentation but you can provide verbal testimony I I'd like to think that that could go smoothly what I have found over the course of my career
is that uh and people should not be expected to have the sophistication to be able to follow the rules that we expect of them and with all due respect most of them don't so as a result you end up having a situation where um they
come in and they end up um uh the engineer testifies uh Mr Mr uh Li testify and then you say oh does anybody have any questions and invariably there
is a cintilla of a question more of a comment and the rest of it is testimony and so there's that and then there's then there's the assumption that that they will not then um that they will then in fact abide by the responsibility
of of uh not presenting something physically now that generally doesn't happen that often but I am concerned that members of the public not because they're not sophisticated they're just not sophisticated in this process and nor should they be and I don't think we
we should expect them to be but we do have a process and it does require uh a certain uh level of understanding of what's going on and then the right of the applicant to be in a position to properly um respond and get its fair
share to have cross-examination so for all those reasons I feel as though if you sort of like pedri um at least I'll go with one part of what pedrick said and that is let's encourage people to get off the couch and into the meeting if they really think they've got a
problem I agree but just one more one more quick thing related to this uh and tonight's application is a good example of this because one of uh the the kind of background reasons for this application that we heard was the uh renovation of the bathroom to be an
accessible bathroom right if uh somebody who is going to comment on accessibility related to a particular uh application variants whatever uh they might not be able to physically get here but they should have the same ability to provide testimony and not just comment as
anybody else and um so as much as I agree and love having people in the room we do need to recognize that people can't always be in the room and can agre also testify you know so the good news the good news is that this particular municipality has made an effort to try
to make uh people who have um uh issues physical issues uh have the ability to get here so that there are not uh physical barriers as you know uh that doesn't necessarily mean that people for example who end up having you know
hearing problems or site problems that's somewhat of a different issue and I I understand that um I'm not necessarily sure how that gets addressed uh whether it be by virtual hearings or U being in person so yeah that's smart enough to
figure that like I said thank you I I like these changes I would like to find ways to open them up more in the future when possible and that's always the possibility y anyone else want lay in on the proposed [Music]
amendments I think from the feedback I'm hearing is that we're all in a general consensus that the proposed language is an excellent step forward and a good step for the upcoming year so with that I'll solicit a motion to adopt the amendments to our rules and regulations of the planning board so move second
include include the amendments in the adoption of those rules for 202 and include the amendment in the adoption of our rules for 2025 motion by Pedro second by was that Alvin Alvin seconded by Alvin so we'll take a roll call vote
Please Mr brusher yes Mr Chin yes Mr H yes Mr Malay yes Mr Stern Cardel yes Mr Williams yes missan yes okay okay oh I
[Music] didn't do all right we have one more action item on our list and that is approval of our January 9th 2025 minutes if I can find
them I've got in front of me while I'm running around with do any members of the board have comments on the proposed January 9th minutes hi I think planner cen's name is misspelled uh in the first roll call box
that's I agree with you but other than that I have no further U things to mention we finally got colleer right we got C you said they spell m hand WR that's tough it's happened but that's a tough
one anyone else have any other comments about the minutes we is this one a roll call vote too no you don't need a roll call you don't want we take a Voice vote up sorry I need a motion I have a motion to approve the January 9th 2025 minutes still moved
motion by Matt H second second by Dan Stern Cardel all in favor I all oppose abstain one abstention also abstain two does that POS a problem with the number
of votes no but what it does is you problems you second is that oh I can't second a motion oh I apologize we got to roll back our motion here I apologize that was my can I have a second second from Alan Williams well I I'll reaffirm my eye
to eyes eyes reaffirmed okay and then absens we've got Dan and and patro all right and no no Nam all right very good so those minutes pass thank you very much and with that I will open up the
the meeting to members of the public whether at home on Zoom or here anybody all right seeing no members wishing to be heard I'll close the public portion of our meeting any other matters anyone on the board wants to
talk about anything on your mind nothing all right with that I'll I'll solicit a motion to adjourn you want to hang out with me no motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second second all in favor all right
[Music]