order so we can hopefully have a short meeting tonight uh call this meeting of the Highland Park rent control board meeting it is 5:36 on um Thursday April 24th and here's our OPMA statement this meeting is called to order in accordance
with the open open public meetings act notice of this meeting was provided to the Home News Tribune uh the Star Ledger and the Highland Park Planet on January 21st 2025 and was posted on the Burough website at www.hpro.com and on the bulletin board
at Burough Hall 21 South 221 South 5th Avenue Highland Park New Jersey and has remained continuously posted as required by law so uh the first order of business we have is the approval of the minutes from March 27th i think there may be
some motions to amend here there was a correction I think yep yeah I had a correction so motion to amend um second do you want to say what that what it is uh it's stated that I included three
families and it was only owner occupied two families of which I don't know how many there are but I doubt that there are more than 20 apologize about that so this is for the section under exemptions right for single family homes as owner occupied two and three family apartments
but you would just wanted two family not and not two families only owner occupied two families owner occupied two families got it can we get that my good friend Jared thought that I included myself in that but I am not an owner occupied
family right so um since we are motioning to amend at this point any objections that's fair we were This is the minutes we're talking minutes yep this is the minutes we're going to amend the minutes to reflect because we attributed three families to Diane and she's saying that
wasn't what she said okay any objection to this amendment okay see none uh motion carries so we will have that amendment to the minutes um any other amendments all right see none can I have a motion
to approve motion to approve can I get a second second sorry I'm late i the traffic was Yeah to start it you know it's Murphy's law right like I left I was like "Oh I gave myself like 45 minutes to get here and I was only 20 foot drive." So of course it
took 55 minutes walking Murphy's law over here so um uh all in favor of approving the minutes for March 27th 2025 i I Those Any opposed abstensions i'll
abstain motion carries uh approval uh the minutes from March 27th have been approved so we have no resolutions on the table this moves us to our only well our only order of business for the night besides public comment which is discussion of the memo that was written
up that includes our recommendations that we had discussed from last time most of us were present but if others have comments that maybe didn't make it into this memo i think we want to take a careful look at it hope everyone was able to do that before the meeting and then Jared give you a chance to weigh in since you were not um with us last time
so I will open the floor to any discussion on this memo i don't have any comments there's a tiny typo but I will share that with Terry diane did you uh want to amend this exe i think you were the one that had
brought this up and the exemption from the minutes did make it into this memo is that something you want to edit out of the memo then or yeah definitely get a motion to amend
where are we amending so the same thing that was in the minutes that Diane just amended what she had actually said in the minutes um it was reflected here in the memo too and so I'm offering her an opportunity oh the memo i don't have the memo for me so it also The memo is right there oh this Oh the memo but not The memo is different than the minutes right
it's different than the ordinance this is just the memo the memo is going to the burough council and we're approving this memo sorry do I should I raise my hand to ask these questions yeah go ahead so anything in this memo that has
exemptions is going to be then transcribed and incorporated into the ordinance terry go ahead uh just it's a good question the intent of the memo it's addressed to you from Jake he took you know the feedback from the meetings and
the public and tried to kind of summarize where we thought the the issues were the intent of this memo is it'll be basically converted into a memo that basically from the rent control board to the burough council most more
specifically Stephanie's um committee which happens to be the finance committee because that's where this um item falls under and it'll be up to them to kind of look at and and when you read the memo you'll see it's not presenting a unified front on each of these items it was like there's a range of opinions
on these various items and we're encouraging the council to consider amendments like this they will look at that and if there's items that they do want to implement with the help of our attorney we'll incorporate them into the ordinance and it'll go through the
normal ordinance you know amendment procedure through committee to the full council for discussion and then to vote in public hearing um so this is basically attempting to capture the range of opinions on these kind of we kind of narrowed it down I guess to
these items uh kind of kind of as core areas of of interest uh and that to get that to be um to relay this information to the council and then it's pretty much in their hands as to what to do with that information at this point go ahead
Jar i So I understand okay so as I spoke with Diane before this um I it this memo I don't there's a couple things in here that I completely
disagree with so but that we're I can put any exemption or ID I want on here like as an individual board member then that gets inserted into the memo which then gets brought up it's not we don't all agree on what the
exemptions are we decided instead of since it's not our job to make the policy we decided that rather than trying to come to a consensus here which doesn't make sense because we're not the council and we're not the ones that are making that we would share not just ours by the way but also public comment we have members of the public here that have spoken at multiple meetings and we
made sure that those uh uh what what was expressed in public comment was also reflected in this memo that will go uh to the council so thank you to those of you that have um that have shared in public comment and know that we've heard you this memo is just a essentially a um
a dictation of the conversations and the ideas from the from the put in nicely summarized thanks to Jacob summarize i'm sorry sorry i just to kind of clarify so and and because they're they're really spot on all we're doing
is making uh recommendations and trying to inform council of what the board is receiving whether it's from the board members or from members of the public so if they choose to make a change to the ordinance they can take that information and then apply it to whatever process they go through uh it if they decide to
make a change to the ordinance or not so effectively here all we're saying is we're trying to put a document together that allows the council to know what's been discussed in this body right wrong or indifferent agree or disagree what the public has brought to us and then the council would then still go through their process of of if they choose to
change the ordinance which they may not many of the things that are in here are already reflected in the ordinance anyway so they may choose to do nothing but this is just an informative piece for them so they can take an action if they deem necessary chair did you have any followup
um a lot happened in last I missed last last meeting you missed a big meeting apparently everything that I completely disagree with made it into these exemptions and control and Right but know that these are this that's why we also wanted to make sure that we gave
you an opportunity to add things to this if you wanted to um I'm not going to let you delete stuff that other people said because those still go in there and that's the idea of putting all sort of the range of range of ideas in there but um to add to it I think would be completely fair and well within your
right as a board member um I guess going through it really quickly and it doesn't it's I'd be opposed to two and three family even owner occupied there you're setting a precedent why would some some If we're going to do a
deontrol uh a uh rent control for to protect the residents and the renters in this town why are we carving out special particular size buildings for for
resident for for for residents it doesn't make any sense to me and frankly it it sets a bad precedent right so if we say "Oh well this doesn't have to be in but this does then what justifies what gets in?" Um we we
uh I think we spoke at length about um the rental increases and we were going to come up with um we the CPI which was the the we were going to come up with the the annual rent increase and that
and what was used LA last year and the previous year and then I remember there were many conversations or you you led the conversation about a reduction in that in that amount and it looks like it made it in here um
um and I just do the do someone like myself uh besides I'm okay I I'm all for rent control uh the CPI if it's from New York
City or from Philadelphia or from a region around here the way it's calculated um you know my expenses on all my properties go up pretty much in on without I don't even have to look at the books 10 to 12% a year is what my my
expenses growth on all my properties including real estate taxes from Ryden Park utilities my payroll t my payroll has gone up the same amount so for 3% three and a half% while it even seems it
underestimates what actually we're all experiencing in terms of inflation and now it's in writing here It's a rec it's one of the considerations for the board we're going to reduce it to 2% so into perpetuity this is like rents rent
growth so if you look at it from any business even in the municipal business your your top line is growing now into perpetuity at 2 and a half% because now
you also have a deep control and but we don't get a lot of turn we our tenants stay for for years and years and years and years so our rent growth stays at our revenues stay at two 2 and 1/2 3 and 1/2% you're asking me to go down to 2
and 1/2 2.6 but my my every my R&M cost for me to fix something it's I looked the other day it's doubled since 2019 so for me to fix a faucet is
twice as expensive as it was five six years ago which is about 15% expense growth so I just think we you know the fact that now we have them here for council to make it to vote on I I I
think that it should be made aware that you know I'm here to represent the limits i'm not here to complain i I actually and I know I'm an emotional guy and I sometimes wear my emotions on my sleeve but it's really not sustainable
if you're going to cap rent growth potentially at below 3% rent growth but I don't see it especially with the world where it is i don't see I don't see expenses and and inflation coming down so how do you what's going to happen to
everybody that wants to operate something in this town and you have doubledigit expense growth you have doubledigit expense growth with two to 3% revenue growth eventually nobody can do business in town so that needs to be somehow
considered and factored into the memo to the board um can we get those so just to be clear the exemptions so far we've uh Jared would like it on there that no exemptions are made and I I would agree with chair on this one too this was just one that uh Diane had made
for the rent increase calculation do know I think I think that should all be noted and if Derek you can or Jared Jared if you want to provide data on that as well because I think we can also attach I would like there to for us to attach the data that I shared about wage growth so that's kind of where we got here was average wage growth for Middle
Sex County was 0.5% right so when inflation's at 4% and wage growth is at 0.5 you're thinking like how do we get to where we're still turning a profit we're thinking how do renters still stay in their things i think this is all something that they should consider right that's so I think sharing data on that would be really
useful but you're giving and and I know you're you're I'm sure you're right but you're giving one data set but who hasn't felt had a plumber come to their house or an electrician or done anything and these the costs are double what they
were three years ago they're not $40 more they're double what they were so I don't I I hear I always hear all these administrations and and these these economic numbers say "Oh well you know we you know we've got inflation under
control and the wage growth is is 0.5%." But I can't pay employees and nobody can give them a flat flat flat income you know and I'm sure the Ruckers you guys are some of you are employees at Ruckers
and other places i I don't I can't imagine you're getting 0.5% they try okay they they don't they don't get away with it so So Okay and then the only other thing is what I I'd like in here
is I I didn't realize this until I joined the the council was that there there is a very negative connotation toward rent control which I've heard whispers around from different people in
town and um um I what I I I can't fight people's ideas or or kind of their theories or ideologies on rent de control but what I can do is and this is why I kind of joined the board is because I have a spectrum of of
knowledge from other towns and how they handle things and and many of the towns and I think there's some language in our ordinance for this but I'd like to tighten it and I can go over with anyone and share kind of my knowledge on it and
that's uh New York City does the same thing when there's a vacancy deontrol or several of the towns that I operate apartments in in Bergen County when there's a deontrol the
landlord can raise the rent if there's a vacant apartment a percentage of the amount that they put into the apartment so if I if I put um in all in theory if I put $100,000
into renovating an apartment let's say there's a certain percent let's say it's 10% I can now raise the rent to $1,000 a month or what you know I I'm I'm I'm generalizing so I think if if that if
there is a consideration to modify or reduce vacancy deont control I think you probably want to also and it benefits everyone to incentivize landlords to put
money back into the units to get to to to to improve the buildings and the town in general and for the tenants so having some structure where or some ordinance where a um you can show the town based
on the the receipts and the bills you got for what you put into that unit to bring it to market you can you can increase the rent from whatever it was by the certain percent based on the money you put into the unit and that is
and that's many many many towns do it new York City does it with their because they have rent control they have rent regulation which then there's different levels in New York City there's rent control rent rent regulation and there's control
and but it's it's been effective in in put in incentivizing landlords to put money into a to an apartment to rent it if you take that off the table alto together it's it's it's not beneficial
it won't landlords won't are are going to have trouble putting money into buildings so I don't know how we put that into the memo but these are the kind of things that I'd like to and I'm not trying to change anybody's view i'm
just trying to bring what I've learned from other towns and where there's been some success and where there has been because it's always a given thing did you get that too Jacob so for vacancy deont control considering some kind of uh alternate formula that includes um
that takes into account any uh expenditures on improvements at the time of vacancy right is what you're saying Jared yeah there's uh North Arlington does it um and I can uh yeah if you want to send me some stuff yeah I can send you uh some calculations that they that
we have to provide so does anybody else have anything on the exe exemptions i think we want to come back to Diane had an amendment there and then let's do these before we move on to the next one in case you have more Jared um anything on the uh anything left to add under the exemptions under uh rent increase
calculation or under the vacancy deontrol i just have a question yeah go ahead i'm sorry so you talked about the decontrol but then having it tied it into sort of improvements to the property so there's the capital improvements are probably improvements to that particular to that unit and that kind of it I guess just to clarify are
are we trying to find a connection between there's the capital improvement section of your ordinance as well which also says if you put certain amount that's at any time not necessarily during well what I'm saying is that is as we make recommendations to the board are we trying to tie maybe one into the other where maybe we need to clarify a little bit of the capital improvement project to tie it into deontrol versus
having it as a separate if you want to protect um the if you want to protect it not protect the town so there's no ambigu ambiguity which doesn't help me as a landlord but I would tell you that separate them so you have capital
improvements for exterior roofs windows and then um you have a whole separate um capital uh not capital but renovation budget and what you put into a particular unit that will benefit that tenant and what will
justify a 7% increase or a 9% increase look I gave you granite countertops and and I put a beautiful shower in for you and it cost me $3,000 i can get $75 more rent on this unit have Have we historically not like if someone
renovates an entire bathroom or we have vacancy deont control right now no no no i'm asking for the on the capital section has that not qualified them for capital improvement previously go ahead Jerry aaron we've had no experience with capital improvement search charges so fair enough there fair enough i don't
know that that we have clauses in our ordinance that uh Sapna had identified that needed tightening up regarding that section that she had some ideas so we'll we'll we'll loop back around i think you're might be taking us uh no and that and I apologize but that's why I'm
asking because as you're talking in my head I'm trying not dealt with it the bureau has not dealt with it you know it's in our ordinance but it's kind of untested at this point understood that's why I've read you know again I'm just kind of walking in so I read your whole ordinance and I'm reading the memo so now I'm just trying to make everything connect so okay I get where you're coming from but I you see where I'm
separate them from capital improvements to you're trying to make improvements to to to incentivize these upgrades to a unit so that we're keeping our stock in good shape and it justifies justifies certain and you can sort of cap
all right Diane's next and then we'll send it oh uh well I do want to respond to some some of the things Jared said um that there are more expenses taxes are higher fees are higher we pay you
know which one is this on which one are we speaking um increases the rent increase okay um the fees for a CEO are something like $150 now uh where you know there used to be like 25 yeah you were when I you worked there was they
were 100 25 yeah so uh fees are higher um I'm concerned that we won't be able to get materials uh in the future we have like a pretty complicated economy right now i
And I know I and I really the the owner occupied two family and the one families that rentals they're not quite the same as a complex jar if Jared needs a refrigerator I'm guessing he can he
probably has three or four in his you know warehouse if an a two family needs a refrigerator they have to start shopping and right away because they can't leave the tenant without you know a necessary plan so so that's about that although I
totally think if you don't want to resent anything I'm not going to you know it's not a um big deal for me the other thing I I'm concerned about is the lack of maintenance that can
happen if people stop um if they're the rents are too low so right now Highland Park is surrounded by rental properties we single family homes are a little hole in the donut all around us are garden
apartments and rental properties cedar Lane Carl's Road River Road all the way around us if those properties are not wellmaintained that means that that little hole of single family homes are
going to be affected i I don't I I'm concerned that that wouldn't be a good thing i looked at other rental increases edison has a flat
5% piscato 6% and New Brunswick 3.14% and there are immediate neighbors now if we're going to be the place where rents are really low and maintenance is
um deferred I I don't know if that's in the best interest of the entire town do we have examples where this is happening where maintenance is being deferred because people aren't making enough based on the rent control ordinance that we have right now no I don't think so
told you that Lucinda sorry so um what Jared was talking about in terms of um in instead of having vacancy deontrol having a
unit come up uh doing whatever renovations need to be done and they're getting a percentage increase that's very different from just um vacancy deontrol and the reason I'm saying that's very different because you just said I don't know if this is true or not you just said oh if that happened
I could see I would increase the rent maybe seven nine% that seven or nine% increase on that unit is very different than what happens when a unit is complete is deontrolled for some people so for example in my case if my
apartment had just you know it would have been an exorbitant increase so there's a difference between you because if someone's lived there for a long time and then they leave sometimes that increases 30% 50% sure but that's very
different from what you just described being oh I've invested in renovations in this apartment and now I want to increase not 3.5% but 7% or 9% that's just very very different from
vacancy deont control which really forces people it just makes some apartments completely unaffordable for you know people go ahead J well there's there's also you bring up a very good point and but there's also and because I
have this issue too um in in other towns and and even here where um the rents are like I have a building uh a couple towns over where the average rents probably
one bedrooms 1150 1200 maybe you know on newer renovated units 1,300 but I have some tenants and they're paying 400 a quarter and so there there becomes a problem with even if I if that person
eventually leaves when you have deontrol I can still put $150,000 work in that unit and I only get 100 I get $150 more for the unit so it it it it here's a good example and I'm telling you it descentivized me for putting
money because I won't put good money after that so that like it's not you want examples but it it's it's it's clear it makes sense and we're we're doing that
Ran like now we we're we're we're building up a a capital budget so we can do the roofs right here at at Raran Landing which is down the street from here 60 units and and maybe by next year we'll have enough money to do the
roofs but um it every year it gets pushed out a little bit and also I mean I I'll tell you there's four buildings there each roof costs about $35,000 to do in 2019 when I did the roofs on the
other side of town same size was 19,000 so it's up 50% in four or five years that's 10% growth a year so now we're here to to do a roof on a building it's going up the costs are going up 10% a year double digit increases and you're
somebody here is proposing a 2% 2 and a half 2.6% topline increase so now you want to cap the increases but my even Highland Park okay
highland Park had a a tax a reassessment on the commercial on everybody but um we got hit pretty hard um our taxes went up 50% since the last assessment okay which okay and you say okay well it's been six
or seven years or whatever it's been since the last recess or maybe longer but I also get my taxes go up five 6% a year just because I live in because I I work in my own properties in town so not
only are my real estate taxes which represent 30% of my expenses okay real estate taxes represent about 30% of fixed expenses on these buildings that expense is going up 5% a year and then I got hit with a
reassessment which was almost 50% increase so my 30% of my expenses on my buildings is going up 12 to 13% a year so now and I'm here and I'm trying to work with you guys but Park has got me
by both sides as a businessman in in Han Park you're charging me 13% expenses on real estate taxes and now you're capping me at three and a half maybe two and a half% on what I can make on my income
hold on we got Terry first i'm sorry i m can hold you have a number in your head no well here's a story i I have me there's over half of I think roughly
half of the towns in New Jersey municipalities have rent control i'm not arguing with rent control i think it's fair i think it's also fair that if you want to do deontrol you give me a chance to increase the money put money in my building and I can raise the rents you
mean vacancy control vacancy control we have decontrol now which means you can raise it however you want that's vacancy control vacancy no yeah or whatever um I and I think if you want to use a number that we got from New York City or from
Philadelphia that says okay on average all everything you throw it into a pot and we're finding out that the CPI the consumer price index what it costs the average person is three and a half% a
year okay that's fair but why are we then saying okay and Diane said something that was that made a lot of sense too and why are we now going to be okay let's go down to two and a half% like just it's like
arbitrary it's like let's be it's not even being a lowcost provider she's not wrong it um eventually and I don't and I know you said you want proof but proof that data help look at my emotions when I see that I I'm okay okay i came here
and agreed to be on the board which I knew you guys were going to put rent control in and start enforcing it and okay three and a half% CPI that's understandable it's justified that's what a lot of towns in New Jersey municipalities do okay but like anything
else then it gets a little bit more people try to squeeze more and more and more and now we could be now we have a recommendation on here to go down to there's a two in front of the rental increases when is the last time anything
in this country only went up 2% uh Carrie I'm going to put you back on stack and then we have and I put myself on stack to Linda then I just want a quick response which what you're describing is exactly what it's like to be a renter and a consumer and a laborer like right now as well and so I'm
feeling your pain also all of us are and so this is not suggesting by the way that it goes down to 2% this is suggesting that it's a percentage of CPI it doesn't have to be 75 that was just a number that we had seen in other rent control ordinances to consider wage growth as well and I understand that your profits are dropping as these
profit hold on let me finish jared you have to let me finish as as as costs are going up and your ability to to to raise those rents is those are converging and that's less and less profit and also as wages are being sticky and prices are going up that's less and less we have to
spend and what I'm suggesting is not even to split the difference with wages um but but also not to split the difference with your profit that we're both splitting the difference here in a way that you're still turning a profit but also people can afford to live here and that's the behind this i don't think it has to be 75% and this doesn't mean that we're sticking it at 2% this means
that we're considering the fact that wages are sticky relative to price growth and that we want something that is a percentage of that to reflect that acknowledgement so that we don't displace our working-class community that's it and so I I understand the pain that you're that you're that you're describing right now because we're all
feeling it and what we have to pay for and so that was that's the consideration that we're trying to put in here is that we don't want to put we don't want to put our landlords out but we also don't want to put all of our renters in our community out as well and I'll put you back on stack because I can see you want to talk but uh the uh Terry was next if
she wants it then Lucinda and then uh Stephanie just really quickly it's is going back to what you mentioned around uh the North Arlington I'll call it kind of approach to not full D control um one thing I know I read in that uh
guide book that we shared um the the survey of towns in New Jersey who have rent control is there are some places that also have kind of a 10-year or some kind of limit to basically address that situation you mentioned that $400 a
month tenant that you've been with for 20 years they leave the the it would be full de control at that point because they've been there so long it would be a chance to really get the equilibrium back so we will happily and what I was just going to offer
is you sound when you every time you point and you go and you added this and you like part of it was you just weren't here because your points would have been in there too and so we'll certainly add in some of this feedback um and again this is just considerations for the
governing body at this point so having this perspective is helpful um so I just want to remind you it's not like set in stone any of this it's just but these were good and thoughtful points that were raised that we wanted them to be aware we're sending both Jared we're sending my suggestion and yours they're both going stephanie's here and she's
hearing all the stuff yeah also Stephanie's here uh Lucinda and then I was Yes jerry said I was gonna say Jared you have your opportunity it's going to go in here no it's not like Jacob's got all this
um yeah thank you Stephanie um I just wanted to as well remind everyone that we do vote on every year the CPI so it's one year it's three and then the year is five you know that's that's if you're re
you recommend that every year to council and then that's another you know discussion and then we vote on that so that's an annual it it could change yeah it's not like for the next five years um you know I council could take in
consideration everything that's going on nationally tariffs this that blah blah blah what's going on and say hey maybe we want to change and maybe we don't want to take rent control so you know all of that being said nothing is set in stone with the CPI as
well and also taking in consideration what you said right we also control the budget right so what we went out this here we also you know with the code enforcement fees you know I did ask that
portfolio to kind of look at those fees and too but yeah you're you're right on that part so others on those first three items diane did you get yours in there your amendment um are we just going to change that I guess since this is kind of a
working document right now so you have um Dian's amendment to the minutes are now are going to be reflected in Yeah the minutes okay i just want to make sure we have that up um uh we have a few more um categories of things we have the just
and fair return um Jared we had a close session on this executive session and this is what uh came out of it so this is what you've already seen before I think um the role of the administr administrator too uh this is
one that has to be changed I think right yeah that's one that our attorney had said is wrong that we have to fix and there's an inconsistency it's not Terry's job to do it's inappropriate for me to mitigate to be intervening in those harassment comps issue and it's
correct in one portion of the ordinance and it's incorrect in another say I think in the ordinance it says specifically you have no role in that but there's another we want to go with the other way we need to harmonize that so that's I just this was also just some of these things were not controversial but we
just figured let's just put it all in one place um and then so if anybody does anyone have any Jared you looking at you specifically but anybody else that wants to add so under just fair return the role of the burough administrator or the capital improvement sir charge those last three items do we have any comments
on those shared anything you want to add in or anything anybody else wants to amend or add at this point see none oh sorry i see two different points on the where it says that the you know obviously some had made recommendations as to adding detail or definitions or whatever which section
are you on uh well on I see on capital improvements but I also saw it on the the just fair return to put a definition in so forth uh at some point if if I mean I'm happy to propose any kind of language or definitions that you all want but it it may you know as we talked about capital improvements earlier and that's why I brought it up was some of
the things that that were being discussed in my mind were capital improvements that may have may have been rectified under a different portion of your ordinance that wouldn't and so as we talk about you know whether you know we want to allow people to reenter and go back to market rates those capital improvements may allow them to get the
search charges that kind of close that gap too we should probably at some point discuss what we want to constitute as a capital improvement versus just a renovation that should just be done on a regular basis do things like a refrigerator for example is that a capital improvement or a roof or whatever just my I think that's what
we're asking the council to do is come up with those definitions i think it'll become the attorney's job to figure that out yeah no and that's fine your job but when it goes to their Yeah but as we as I talk to all of you it's it's helpful to because the council's going to I'm sure at some point it's going to say well what did we want to improve like
what was the set of recommendations to include in that definition just I wanted to throw it out there we may want to have an idea to give if the capital requests it what we believe should be a capital improvement versus um maybe something that would go to a fair and just adjust or something that you should just renovate on regular basis jared go
ahead hey I mean I can solve that very easily for you capital improvement is kind of what an accounting term for means it's capital you speak up Jared i can't um capital improvement um in in the world of accounting and finance means a capital capitalized recruitment
means it can be depreciated over time okay whereas ongoing cost to renovate a unit or put a refrigerator in or tile a bathroom is not a capital a capital permit is something that loses value over time like a boiler or a roof or something
that that you put in you put a onetime cost and then you depreciate it but it's it's capitalized so that's an accounting term no no and I and I understand that my only recommendation was if there are specific things that we want to say we are going to constant these as capital improvements just to clarify for the
ordinance so everyone understood if we write this definition that may be something more or I can do it generically where we we go the generic accounting role and then the only issue with that is that some you know a landlord comes and says okay I'm going to apply for a capital improvement hardship um and and then they have to
now justify what they've done if it's not specific if there was something that hey it's a physical we repaired the roof well under your ordinance this is specifically listed as a capital improvement you know what I'm saying it might just streamline the process for everybody just a recommendation but I think that was our goal I think defining it right yeah i think I I think that was
the hope was to take input from the attorney's office as to what kind of works to make it as easy to administer and as transparent for everybody as what qualifies we'll we'll start to work on some of that language then for you all just to have it at the ready we work on the application too right yeah and there's an application that needs to be
updated as well that's not our job fair that's because that's why I was saying this body isn't going to know i think you're opening a can of worms by Lucinda so under just in fair rate of
return it says that if you can set it two point the 2.5% the minimum that is not what the recommendation was so we just need to look at what it wasn't it 2.5% above the P sorry I remember what you're saying
but you know what I'm talking I know I kept saying it above yeah adjust the return is 2.5% when the return means the above above and return are the same thing but no it doesn't yes it does it out in that memo then it's two
and to me it looks like it's a two and a You'll sleep with No I know I know what you're saying i'll make sure it's the left yeah and And again that's one that our attorney is going to help us but I I think I remember what you're talking about i know I know what you're saying yeah
jacob's going to get it in there any other uh before we go to public comment um are we adding in what uh Jared's going to put this so Jacob you're going to give us an updated version of this and we'll let Jared take a look at it before it gets transmitted
i don't think that we necessarily Do we need to vote on this terry go ahead uh I was going to suggest the next version of this will be a memo from the rent control board to the Stephanie's finance committee um so you'll see that'll be the main change
and then with the addition of the the feedback we just got okay and then we'll circulate that around but I don't believe that requires a vote this is a you know there's just a especially because we're not having to come to a consensus as long as nobody has any corrections so please everybody look for that so that if there are any corrections that need to be made on your
own part not on what other people ones that you care about that you voiced i'm not going to correct what Jared said jared said what he said he needs to look at what he said and make sure that it gets in there right um Stephanie um and then it's going to go to my finance committee but once it goes to a
work session that will be open and all council members will discuss and I will let you guys know when that is on the agenda and happening you guys are free to come and speak or free to send emails then you'll be able to hear um from the
entire council because my committee alone isn't able to make justice decision my only comment was going to be that this is a it's still a draft document you don't need to go to the motion and adopt it perpetually once it's done and you want to make a formal adoption but to your point you don't need to do it
over and over and over again it should be All right any other last comments on this memo before we move to public comment all right moving on to public comment uh we have members of the public here do we have any
online none online would anyone here like to make public comment on up state your name for the record hello I'm Dave Stevens i rent on Wayne Street um and I have for a while now um
there's a couple things I wanted to mention um one I thought that a lot of the sort of discussion towards adding in flexibility towards being able to discuss how the CPI and and therefore judging the rent increase um was the
amendments were wanted because the board at the last time we certified uh the rent increase they felt that there was not any flexibility for there to be discussion of can we uh add in this type of percentage change but that it was felt like it was locked in that that
must be an average between Philly and New York um and that was I believe discussed at the December meeting um or whenever it was uh and so the amendments are something like that are being proposed here are something that is uh
relevant and important because the current wording uh didn't seem to leave much movement for that type of um flexibility and consideration of active uh uh environment about how prices were moving around right so there wasn't the
ability to respond to uh current economic affairs um additionally there was a mention about Rucker's wages and I just wanted to clarify some things is that Ruckers includes many many many many different types of wage um simply
being a professor is not a there are many different types of professors and that doesn't mean that it's an excellent job tenure professors sure um but grad students adjunct professors non-tenure track professors um I am not able to individually
negotiate my wages because we have a fantastic union however uh two contract negotiation cycles ago my wages were not increased at all right i had a period where I was paid
$25,000 and that's it four years in a row right there were no increases um and for certain parts of that time I am not allowed to take additional work um and as we have discussed percentages of
small amounts of money increase is not right a large increase my wages now are about $34,000 a year um and that's after some very significant increases including going on strike uh and I don't think we that is going to necessarily be
an easy right negotiation every single time uh contract negotiations go up i am not able to increase my wages um in any specific way um additionally uh there have been ways
that landlords are getting around rent increase rent cap increases uh for example partially due to the um enormous drama of the new water meters and the various ways that uh measurements have been incorrect and the town has been
unwilling uh to to sort of remedy them in uh swiftness um I now pay my water bill as well uh so I pay rent I pay water I pay heat water used to be included in my rent bill it is no longer
um which you know is a quarterly payment of about I don't know it it's prorated between all of the people in my uh uh two apartment building um but you know is $140 a quarter which is not nothing especially as we've discussed everything
all prices are going up um so I bring up the ruckus wages because that is an ecosystem that we are part of um and people need to live grad students need to And grad students also need dignity in their living conditions um we're adults
we're people with lives and jobs and pets and uh if if things keep going up and amenities continue to be taken away uh that's degrading for people who live here and are part of the community and want to be part of the community and live here um and be part of this town
thank you thank you Kate any others not online oh all right i see no more waiting for public comment the chair will entertain a motion to adjurnn
second you have a second i want to before we adjourn just I want to spend two seconds jared all right i'm going to drive you crazy but technically already got a motion to adjourn but I'm going to let you backtrack for 30 seconds i know I sound like a pain in the side
of you and other people here i like I like I got in I got but I came on the board because you somebody wanted a landlord's perspective and I try to I
came I I could come and every time I hear an idea like this that is going to really hurt the way I do business i could get upset and and and just do this but I I try to rationally I come in with
my armor on trying to just say trying to give you what the landlord perspective on it is and how it actually directly impacts a landlord rather than emotionally say it's going to I I I try
to look at it unbiasedly but from my my day-to-day business and how I do business and what would impact how much money I put into a particular unit which when I would do a
roof when I would make the landscaping pretty when I would redo some concrete what I would try to do and so I I already know I like this is a funny way to look I already know I lost the battle when rent control went so what I wanted
to do was give it a very kind of and it's it's going to be biased because it's coming from the landlord's perspective But I wanted to give you a perspective on somebody that has a bunch of units in town so you can see what what each ordinance and what little
exemption is how it really will truly without trying to put emotion or bias in it how it will impact things going forward um I I'll stay on as long as I feel like that you're listening to it
and that I'm making a slight at least letting people making people think about it before they decide to put two or one or 2% rent growth or get rid of the control or just stuff like that and when I until I can feel like I'm at least
making you letting you think about it before you come we all I mean I I get it i understand um what the the resident said about Ruckers and and she's a grad student and they sorry um sorry about
that uh they is a grad student and and on a very tight budget um I I I get all that um and um but it's not the problem is it it's not about one person
i hear so many different things every day yeah we have to when we make these decision we have to make it an aggregate it has to be a compromise to make sure the residents and the renters in town are are protected and regulated and the
landlords are too but you you have to you don't have to make it a screaming home run for the landlords but you have to make it so they can operate and want to be in town or at least be able to operate in town and just like for
everybody else my job gets um I'm not lying but it gets harder and harder and harder every year and I'm not lying when I say with 15% expense growth and apartments have have you can look them up online
margins on multif family units is tight if you cap it at two or 3% the revenue growth and you continue to grow expenses above double digits you may not affect it now but in 3 years you're not going
to be able to attract anybody to put any money into the bill and that's and I and that's all jared I want to tell you that even though you and I disagree about a lot I think we do so well and I think that uh I think everybody I speak for everyone I say that we all value everyone's opinions here including yours
and we appreciate your uh your participation in this board now the chair will entertain a motion to adjourn second see no objection meeting ad