All right, we're good. Okay, great. Jimmy, start ready. Yeah, I would like to advise all those present that notice of this meeting has been provided to the public in accordance with the provisions of the open public meeting act and that notice
was published in the city website copies provided at the Bergen record Ellis Bial Northstar ledger Jersey Journal also placed on the Bolton board in the lobby of city hall. Any written objections shall be made to the city clerk.
Oh, I got the flag. Uh, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. Roll call. Mr. Con. Miss Fischer here. Mr. Jabore here. M presidentano. Mr. Canero. Mr. Ramos. Mr. Zano is here.
Okay. Miss Mr. Cano, Mr. Ramos, Mr. Russo, President Doyle. President Doyle needs to be added as a panelist. Okay. And uh this purpose of
this meeting is called by Mayor Bala by special budget workshop Tuesday, May 27th, 2025 to commence at 6:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. Community Development, Climate Action, Innovation, and Water Utility
and Public Safety. Thank you, Mr. Fina. Uh, council president has joined the meeting, so he is he is present. Uh, welcome to our budget workshop uh this evening. This is our second budget workshop. Uh, their first one was on Thursday evening. This
will be the second uh budget workshop. Uh, this evening we will be hearing from community development, climate action and innovation and water utility and public safety. Uh, director Chris Brown will be presenting the community development.
Uh, oh, Councilman Ramos has joined as well. Mr. Fina, we got him. Okay, thank you. Uh, and then director Jennifer Gonzalez will be presenting climate action innovation, water utility, and then uh, director Kenny Faranti will be
presenting public safety. So, we're going to use the same format as we did last uh, last week. Uh there's going to be an opportunity for council members to have questions and comments after each presentation and then uh at the end of the presentations uh the general public
will have an opportunity to ask questions and give their comments as well. So uh with that I'm going to turn it over to uh to uh Director Chris Brown who is going to present community development. Director Brown.
Thank you. Council Vice President Cohen and good evening members of council and other esteemed staff on the on the line this se this evening. I'm going to share my screen. All right. So I think that my
present my presentation should be showing. Yep. Looks all right. Great. All right. Yep. So, good evening. I'm Chris Brown. My name is Chris Brown. I'm the director of community development here with the city of Hoboken. I'm here to give you give everyone the the annual budget
presentation for our department. Uh, just a quick overview. Community development has four separate divisions. The housing division, which contains the rent control office, zoning office, the planning board and zoning board divisions, and community development division, which is generally speaking
our planning division. I say this every year, and I'll say this from the jump. I am incredibly incredibly fortunate to be surrounded by the staff that we have here in community community development. We're a small department, but our productivity is off the charts. So, I'd like to just take this time to
acknowledge everyone on my team from our clerks to our division heads. Just phenomen phenomenal staff. Go team. And uh I appreciate you all. So, speaking of the team, here's an organizational chart showing the
breakdown of divisions that I just mentioned. Altogether, we're a small department with about uh 13 people spread out between four divisions. The Office of Community Development is our planning division with myself and two planners housed in the line. The housing division is made up of six total staff
members, two rent regulation officers, two clerks, um two clerks, and uh two inspectors. uh one senior chief housing inspector and a and a housing and zoning inspector trainee um physically located in the
multi-ervice center. Our planning board and zoning boards are staffed by our board secretary. The zoning administration line is our zoning office which is headed by our zoning officer and staffed with two other employees, one clerk and one housing and zoning
inspector. Historic preservation is housed within the zoning office. Our zoning officer is the administrative officer to the board and the zoning office clerk serves as the secretary at HPC meetings. Over the last 5 years, our
staffing numbers have been relatively flat. Uh, one thing to note, the 2024 total represents the total number of employees by the end of the year. Uh, this time last year, the housing division actually had four employees. Our chief housing inspector transferred
from the zoning office to the housing division last spring and we hired an additional person. Uh we hired a clerk in housing which makes six employees total. And I say this because last year there was an emphasis on adding staff to the housing division which we've done. So, at this point, if we were to add
additional housing staff, we would either have to expand the existing division space in the multi or we'd have to get creative with the space that we have now or we'd have to just find a new space altogether. But we've we've we've reached six um in that division, which
was an emphasis for last year. That said, community development is approximately 1% of the city's budget. That 17% year-over-year budget increase was um is largely due to two
factors. One, ongoing and potential future litigation, and two, an increased redevelopment agenda. And I will get into both of those items on the next slide. So, as I mentioned before, the
community development department is comprised of four overall divisions, but on paper, we're actually made up of seven sections. Getting into budget numbers, let's go line by line. All right, so the office of community development saw a decrease in budget due to due to staff departure. The division
of housing and planning uh housing and planning boards both have increases due to ongoing and potential litigation. And I say potential litigation only because last year, for example, we budgeted $130,000 for planning board OE, which
was already a huge jump from from 2022 and 2023 OE. So in 2022, I think the OE was 83,000. 2023 OE was 73,000. So we jumped up 100% from 2023
to 2024. And even if that 130,000 was 133,000, we still needed to transfer in $12,000 by the end of the year to cover invoices. And the bulk of planning board expenses come from legal and transcription fees that aren't covered by escrow. Where the bulk of these
expenses, it's it's covered by those fees that aren't covered by escrow. So, it's the same story with the housing division. Last year, the rent board attorney cont rent board's attorney contract totaled 122,000 due to ongoing litigation centered around board decisions that were challenged by
landlords. Generally speaking, the rent board has been more active in the last last few years due to increasing rents and tenants pushing back on what they find to be unconscionable rent increases. And um yeah, when I when the rent when the office the housing division was placed into community
development a few years ago, I don't know if any some of you may recall the OE line was something like 40,000 50,000 and here we are. So the zoning board's line remained flat due to staying within
our 2024 line last year and the zoning office line increased increases due to the increase in in uh operating expenses. Last year we contracted with a company that manages flood elevation certificates and that contract was
charged to the redevelopment line due to not having enough in zoning OE. So this year we're accounting for the remainder of the contract in the zoning line. The contract was about $18,000. Um and historic preservation
came in below that $38,000 budget line. So we brought down the HPC line um as a as a result. Redevelopment uh the redevelopment budget line more than doubled from 2024 due to an increased
workload. So, we've had um so we have the Hudson Place redevelopment plan, police department redevelopment plan, Midtown Garage, we we're doing we pay for an appraisal on Midtown garage. Um we have to pay for redevelopment
council on the garage B um project. uh the hospital um preliminary investigation which you all the hospital in Midtown Garage uh preliminary investigation which you all um saw a couple weeks ago and we brought on a
real estate consultant that's also going to help us out with the garage B RFP process and potentially some of the ongoing redevelopment plans that we have right now. So, and you know, just his thinking about this bit more historically with this increase, we're
actually kind of bringing it back into line with where it's been in past budgets. So, in 2020, um my my second budget year here, uh it was about $460,000. 2021, we brought it down to
375,000 and that stayed consistent with 2022. 2023, we brought it down to 350. you know, trying to bring down the redevelopment line because a lot of our work is um with redevelopment agreements is funded by escrow. 2024 was was more
of an outlier that low amount. Um so, you know, as I stated, most of our workload is escrow funded. So, and our planning team this late last year, early this year, we prepared and um and and shephered through the garage B redevelopment plan. We did that in
house. We didn't have a consultant. I was the one doing the presentations. In 2025, one of our planners um prepared the we have a housing element and fair share plan w which uh which you'll all be um hopefully endorsing in the next
few weeks. Um but yeah, to to do that in house and to help out with the budget, she she prepared the housing element and fair share plan. She did a great job. Um so that's just a way that we find some savings. Um, but also in 2025, we're going to need more funding in the
redevelopment line for all the different non-escro projects that we're taking on, which I stated earlier. And I just want to note that 17% number is should be higher. Our housing division is one of the most public facing government offices in our city and our office furniture several
decades old. One of the things that I've um in communicating with the housing division is just the uh the the the office furniture is it's it's a bit underwhelming and um you know it's not the most comfortable place to be um
during a during a a workday. So I have a quote for just under $30,000 to purchase new office furniture. That's not anticipated in this budget. I opened up the presentation stating that pound-for-pound community development has the best staff in city hall. I think
the housing division deserves an office that makes them feel appreciated. And um you know just overall our budget does not include non-contractual or merit-based races. And something to note for next year, our our master plan was
adopted in early 2018. So, next year we'll likely need to add another six figures to the budget to adhere to the statutory obligation of the 10-year window for a master plan. Um, it would have been we the planning board um expressed interest in undertaking a
master plan or getting started with the master plan process this year, but uh it's a difficult challenging budget year, so we're we're putting it off. But just something to note for next year. Um there will be another increase in the uh in in in the community development
budget to account for that. All right. So moving on. This slide shows the breakdown for all of our lines split between salary and wage and operating expenses. Um the only thing I would get into here, you know, because I got into a bit of context content with the other
uh with the other slide. Um, with the housing division, the 2025 OE is 349,800. That represents a $180,000 increase from 2024 OE. Uh, and
this is just me being incredibly cautious after the increases in rent board related litigation within the past two years. I that number could have been higher, that number could have been lower. It's just last year we had last year was was uh was a lot. So we wanted
to anticipate those um unanticipated any unanticipated expenses. And I mentioned that our planning board OE last year was 133,000. This year we're budgeting 200,000 considering ongoing and potential litigation. Uh
so that may have been low. Uh we've actually been invoiced $56,000 for litigation expenses alone. That doesn't include board attorney fees, board attorney fees, just litigation for the first four months of 2025. And without going I don't want can't get into too
much detail on specific matters. There's always potential for additional litigation arising from planning board applications that may be pending approval or may have been approved. So in reality when I put together this budget when I put together
this budget a few years ago I thought that a 50% increase in the planning board line it was a conservative approach. Turns out I underestimated our capacity for litigation and it likely may not be enough um considering that litigation is
unpredictable. So, in all honesty, that number probably it's more realist that number probably realistically should be closer to 300,000. So, given the context of where we are with the 2025 budget, I understand that the city council would
like to spend some time, some amount of time during our presentations going over potential revenue sources with each department in community development. our major source of re revenue generation. You know, we could talk about fees and um you know, different fees that that
that come in, but the biggest source of revenue is um the an expanded tax base by way of development and redevelopment. And when I use the term development, I'm speaking more about approvals through the zoning office and our planning board
and zoning board. Those applications are market driven. And as we, you know, went through on our previous slides, those our land use boards have been busy. Um, you know, I can name a handful of projects right now that are under construction that have been approved at the planning board and zoning board that
will contribute to the tax base moving forward. Community development specifically, our planning division, we've we have more oversight over the redevelopment process. So what you're seeing here is a snapshot of snapshot of projects where we've negotiated
community benefit payments which will be used eventually to offset various capital expenditures that the city is expected to incur such as Southwest Park Block 10 expansion a potential 15th Street light rail station etc. Um, and these projects are either these specific
projects that I have up on the screen. These projects are either um under construction, wrapping up construction, or there's shovel ready. Uh, the total amount of community benefit community benefit payments shown here 17 million almost $18 million um due to the city
within I would say estimated next five to six years and just based on the pipeline. These are the ones that I think are the closest to, you know, they're either, like I said, under construction or they're closest to getting a getting a building permit or applying for a building permit. Uh, so, and I'm leaving out a lot of other
projects. Um, 930 Monroe, the Post Office Hotel, Block 106, Western Edge. Um, those are a little bit farther away from from, I'd say, being closer to shovel ready. Um, but this number would obviously expand if I included all of
the projects that we've negotiated redevelopment agreements for over the last few years. Um, so last but not least, um, here is our obligatory pie chart pie charts. U, the housing division is our most sizable chunk of the um, community
development pie. uh followed by of course the the planning office, the community development office and then zoning. Um and we have a pretty even split between salary and wage and operating expenses oe but it tilts slightly to the salary and wage portion
at 53%. And that is my presentation this evening and I welcome all of your questions. Thank you director. Uh I just want to second the small but mighty comment uh that uh it really is amazing
how much work uh gets done out of your office and how few people are doing it every day. So it's a credit to your leadership director and uh we appreciate you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Councilman. So, uh, council members, uh,
Councilman President Zano, um, I've got a question, Director Brown, on you mentioned the cost of litigation. Um, I know in society has gotten more latigious in general. Uh, could you clarify when you say litigation
expenses, are you saying because, let me rephrase this. I know the city is subject to being sued for anything we do and it does happen. However, how much of this
is I don't know if the right word is self-inflicted or because of something that we've done as a city that puts us in that position or a board may have put a us in that position. How much of this extra litigation cost has come from that
in your professional opinion? So, I'm I'm I'm gonna say that to answer this question directly, you we'd probably have to go into close session. Uh to to fully answer that question because uh you're essentially asking for admissions
for misconduct. Uh which, you know, we we obviously could not do that in the public meeting. Uh whether it's true or not. Uh and anyone can make an allegation of misconduct. Uh I'm I'm not sure if it's possible to answer this question in a way that that wouldn't
have confidential information about the the city's strategy for how to defend cases because these are real cases that you're talking about that are actually pending that you're looking for advice on. So I'm just I I want you to get the information you need, Councilman. I'm just concerned that the way you framed
it, I don't know that it can be answered in a public session. Well, I mean, at the end of the day, this is a public it's a public budget meeting, and if we're sitting here saying our litigation costs are going up, we need to tell the people what's going on, and I need to know whether it's close session or not. Uh, our
expenses have exponentially exploded for litigation and some I will say, uh, Western Edge is one of them. Uh, and I will point fingers on that one. Uh however uh I know that there's been we've sued several large corporations
and a couple have come back that we've not won uh or we're in still in litigation. So I want to know going forward where this tax dollars going. Um because it's just happening more this year than it has any others. So if I can
get some clarity and maybe it's not on this phone call. Yeah. Uh I would like to see that because I think that's extremely important. if we're spending money for lawyers and as as this office has done a lot of in-house work, you know, my next question would be is why
aren't we doing it in house uh to save money? So, again, that's where my question is. I I completely appreciate what you're saying is as that is your background more than mine on litigation and and you're I appreciate what you're saying to me as far as um there is
ongoing cases. I think that the question is probably more accurately directed at the corporation council's office than director Brown's because when it comes to staffing litigation, whether it can be done inhouse, uh he's he's better able to answer that question and and I
think if you want to get a report from the from the corporation councils about pending litigation and you know claims and defenses, I think that that could be presented to you confidentially, no problem. Uh, but I suspect that past his prelude when it comes to budgeting and
that director Brown's testifying that based on the what the spend was last year, that's what the basis is for the spend for the next. But, you know, director, I mean, you're free to answer these questions, but I I would just caution you about, you know, what I said. So, you know,
no, I think spot on, Councilman Cohen. I think um I I I don't I couldn't necessarily talk about um particular litigation matters here. I'm just talking through general budget
needs. Um you know, we could I'm happy to have a close session or or or um another conversation offline about um different uh litigation pieces. But um yeah, it's just litigation is unpredictable. Anybody could sue at any
time for anything. And uh we have we have had a number of uh of uh of litigation um uh number of court number of court actions over the last few years. That's not to say this is the only I mean if you go back to 10 or so
years ago, there was other litigation matters. It's just that's just things things get litigated. Um but I'm happy to have that conversation offline. Councilman Preszano, anything else? Yeah, no, that's it. Thank you. Yep.
Councilwoman Fischer, Councilman, you're uh Yeah, you're on mute, Councilwoman. Thanks, Chris. Uh the uh the additional details super helpful. So, I appreciate that. Can you go back um a few slide? I
have a couple questions. One on Wait, go back again. Go back again. So on this slide um first and foremost
is in terms of the redevelopment expense like what isn't a portion of the redevelopment costs covered by the developers. Um and is there you didn't have a page here on revenue right
anywhere. Do we have a other than the um other than the community benefit page, but like what what are the revenues that you see coming into your department that offset some of these costs? All right. So, it's a two-part question.
So, yeah. So, redevelop so in terms of developer escrow um on the redevelopment side, negotiating a redevelopment agreement. So when we enter into interim costs and conditional designation agreements, we're allowed to collect escrow that pays for real estate consultant that pays for attorney that
attorneys that pays for traffic engineers um and all the expenses that lead up to uh draft to the preparation of a red or to the adoption of a redevelopment agreement. Um that's what goes into that
escrow bucket and which I mentioned last year. Um, yeah, I I couldn't I don't have the number. Um, but we did quite a number of redevelopment agreements last year and we were busy she separating a bunch of different projects. So, I was
able to get that line. Um, actually I think the next slide. So, you'll see that uh 2024 OE was adopted at 160. We spent 135. um that number goes up to 350 because
we're doing more than shephering just redevelopment agreements. This year we've got the Hudson Place redevelopment plan. We have um the police um the uh the uh the police station redevelopment plan. I mentioned the those those different projects that are paddled off
before the the the uh appraisal for the uh for the um Midtown garage. um everything that we've had to deal with garage B, you know, and the the council that we've had to res that we've had to receive on getting up to an RFP and then moving forward as we advance through the
RFP. Um there's there's going to be cost associated with that that I'm anticipating which is the reason why we get up to 350. Um, and in terms of revenue, I mean, that would require me
going to the tax assessor and essentially projecting out what the estimated tax ratables would be for, and I'm going to skip ahead one. So, 931 Madison, 38
Jackson, 1404 Willow. Those are under construction right now. I mean, I could go to the tax the tax assessor and ask him um what the tax what what the what the projected tax ratables would be on these projects after they're um after
they they're they um complete construction. I don't have that information now, but that's something that I could do. I mean, and but then and um and if you're looking for even further out projections, um you know, I could get those for you know, like I
said, 50 I'm sorry. Yeah. No, no, no. I It's funny you're going in a direction on something that I I wasn't thinking about, but now that you've raised it, um I actually had this conversation with um Director Stratton about if we can get an
idea even just from the big projects that you know are potentially going to come online this year, like the building that has Hudson Sonica on it, I'm assuming, is coming online this year. Um the one next to
um next to the Pzner house. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. These if these drop into not not for purposes of your budget, but taking these and dropping them into an estimated opening date. These are our
really big um projects. Coming up with a back of the envelope estimate for a ratable contribution over the next couple years, I think is an exercise that we need to do as as we get through the next week or so because we're talking about these giant, you know, tax
increases for um today's residents. But but as we expand our ratable base, at least in a short-term basis, we're going to see some um relief from having a greater uh greater denomination in all these. So um or greater denominator,
sorry, in all of these. So, I think if you can take these and drop them into just a highlevel estimated quarter open number of units, throw a number at it, you know, $500,000 average assessment for each unit, you're going to get an order of
magnitude, right? Sure. Sure. And I I absolutely can and will do that. I would say that Hoboken Connect. So, you'll see here that I just have pilot. Um, and that's not necessarily community benefit payment, but it is coming online. and they are going to be they have broken ground on site 2, the 478 unit
residential building. Um so that's subject to a pilot once they're complete once the building is online. Um the pilot actually starts was projected to start um as per their financial agreement. It was projected to start at I think getting up to 1.5 or $ 1.7
million per year um to that comes to the city and that goes up I think it exceeds 2 million after like year five or so. So yeah, so I can get you those I can get you those long-term projections. Absolutely. I think it's I think it's giving Caleb them actually like putting a schedule together and just dropping
them in so he has it so we can do a ratable calculation. But just going back the the question I'll ask and is the you know you went through like a couple hundred thousand or whatever costs in developments that are are those
necessary this year or in a year where we need to slow down do a little less you know conserve costs can we push out some of that redevelopment into the following year and give taxpayers some relief this year? Oh on the redevelopment line.
Yeah, I mean that's these are all um you know priorities of the administration and uh or in priorities not only of the administration but also something that's been discussed between council members and the administration. So uh that's a
question I think um that I I can't necessarily answer. I think that's a that's more of a conversation um between you know the the the branches of of of of government and uh and but you know we
are advancing projects to continue to build on the ratable base or that happen to also build on the ratable base. So um pushing things out farther you know we're still we're pushing out potential um development
revenues. So that's that's the just the one thing to consider. Thanks. That's it. Sure. Thank you, Council. Thank you, Councilwoman. Uh, Councilman Ramos. Uh, thank you, Council Vice President. I don't want to repeat what uh what
Councilman President Zano or Councilman Fischer has said, but Chris, are the long-term redevelopment uh revenue slide, are those numbers uh just city revenues or are those going is that also going to the county and the board of education as well? That number.
So that 17 million number is that all for the city or is that counting the the split? Yeah. Yeah. No, this is all this is this is their community benefit payment numbers on that's not included their their tax ratables are a different are a different matter right so like
their annual tax bill not this I can get those numbers and exactly so that's that's what I wanted to get to can we get those the the revenue the tax revenue numbers as well because this is goes back to what I was saying last meeting we we develop projects it it
helps it helps us cover expenses and these items here that you have on that on that graph helps us cover expenses when we grow our ratable base. So, our opponent of of doing the opposite of what council fisher suggested. Let's move those a little bit faster and
smoother through our through the pipeline to get these revenue dollars in. They're going to be approved. Let's put our stamp of approval on them the way we want to see it developed. Uh the way we want to see that ratable base come in and the tax dollars flow in to try and offset any expense we're
incurring. not just this year, but for future years. So, um I'm appreciative of the work that you guys and your department do. Uh and I just like to see us move in a little bit of faster pace, but always obviously keeping the community involved every single step of the way. And obviously having that
community input makes things better when we have, you know, what's what we see today on May 28th maybe a lot different community input on September 1st and and thus far. I always appreciate community input on any of our redevelopment
projects. It makes the project just that much better. But ultimately, you know, those numbers that we seeing coming in, those are real numbers and those things would help if they they have done been done a lot sooner in the process. So I know I know 951 is almost finished, 38 Jackson's almost finished, 1404 is
almost complete, and I think 1500 is almost complete as well. Correct. They're a 1500 Clinton. Uh they are in the process of getting No, no, no. They're just they're just breaking ground. I'm sorry. Wrong. I think I'm thinking wrong. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to be they're going to be breaking down probably breaking ground probably in the next month or so. Correct. Yeah.
No. So, those are all positives for the city. I guess the one thing that uh as far as the litigation thing go Congressman Cohen gave a great we can't predict what uh what other people do but I think we should just be a little more cognizant as we go through our process
how we can just prevent that from happening in in our process with with with either language or just outreach in general to those parties that may be may want to be latigious towards us. I think we see an example of that garage B potentially as well. We want to try and if we could cut that off at the head,
let's cut that off there. So, uh I appreciate the work you guys are doing, but let's just keep on going on ratable base as uh as good as we can, as much as we can, as fast as we can. Appreciate it, buddy. No, thank you. Thank you, Councilman. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thanks, Councilman Ramos. You know, just just to follow up on what Councilman Ramos said, you know, quite a
bit of this is in the Northwest redevelopment plan. And uh you know, a lot of that has been, you know, I don't know if that's the right word or just for many, many, many years, nothing has been happening. and to see quite a few of these projects that are
moving forward. Uh, you know, we're looking at some significant community benefit payments on on top of additional ratables. Uh, that is a reflection of the work that this department has been putting in with a really really small staff and getting all this stuff done. So, again, uh, thanks for that. Uh,
Councilman Russo, thank you, Councilman. I appreciate that. Thank you, Councilman. Uh, and director, please forgive me. Uh I had some technical difficulties, so you may have gone over some of this stuff, but uh let's just talk on this slide. The long-term redevelopment revenues, is this the uh
is this the projected for the year? No, these are just these are just the community benefit payments that are attached to each project. So 931 Madison after their after they complete the proper milestones or the milestones that are within their redevelopment agreement, the city will have
$400,000 that that would be spent towards any uh that would be that would that could be spent on ex uh certain projects that are outlined in the redevelopment agreement. I think we have general language in our agreements that state that community benefit payments um
are eligible for like public purposes. uh 38 Jackson, same thing. $800,000 after they get to a certain milestone, 250 uh hertz. So these are all milestone based and they're and they're and they're just standalone payments that go to the state that go to the city to
offset the cost that or offset um impacts attached or that are associated with the redevelopment projects. Um and No, I'm sorry, Darth. Go ahead. Finish. No, I was just going to say that's so that's in addition to the that's
different than the than the annual tax um than the annual tax uh payment that these buildings will be bringing on. And that's why I mentioned Hoboken and Connect. So that's a 30-year pilot. Um, and I think over the length of the pilot, I mean, it's it's a pretty
substantial uh it's 40 50 million or it's it's tens of millions of dollars that the city will have over that 30-year period starting in I think year uh the second year after they um uh or the at the beginning of the pilot,
they're at $ 1.5 million and it just escalates up like like some of my colleagues asked about the the tax ratables and and getting that into some kind of a yearly breakdown so we understand what that looks like. Can you go back and and and take these numbers
and apply those milestones so that we know for example this year we may get, you know, $200,000 or next year we may get, you know, $2 million depending on where those milestones are and where each of these projects may be so that we could budget accordingly and understand
what that revenue source is coming into the city of Hoboken. And then in in addition to that um and just talking about the pilot payments, where are we right now with our yearly payments to the city of Hoboken and and what does that look like
in comparison to the last five years? Has that increased significantly? Has it decreased significantly? Where where are we on that? And again, you may have covered that in your slides, but I just want to make sure I I know it and I see it. You want to know? You want to know how much the city is collecting in pilot
in pilot payments this year? I don't have that number. I think I'd have to ask um our finance office, which you know, we could get. I just I don't have that number at my fingertips, but I can I can check with finance on the um revenues that we've that the city's
collected in 2025 or 2024 um for pilot payments. Not a problem. And then what's anticipated in 2025 and so on and so forth, right? kind of break it down to those milestones like you were talking about. Not a problem. I appreciate it. Thank you, director.
That's all I had. Thank you, Councilman. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks, Councilman Russo. Uh, Councilman Ramos, your hand is still up, but I assume you just haven't put it down. Uh, so assuming that is true, uh, I believe that that wraps up council's
questions and comments uh for Director Brown. I don't see any other of my colleagues with their hands up. So, thank you for your time. Uh, director, I know you're going to stick around in case your questions from the public at the end of uh the other presentations. Uh, but thank you for your presentation
and for your answers and for getting back to us with the outstanding questions and uh we'll turn it over now for climate action and innovation and then water utility presentations from director Jennifer Gonzalez. Director is yours. Thank you, Councilman, and thank
you members of city council. I appreciate your questions and have a great night. Just uh one one quick thing um to Council Russo, it's 18 pilots are 18 million this year and budgeted to be just down 200,000 in
2025 according to the budget. Thank you, Councilwoman. Director Gonzalez, the floor is yours. Sure. Can you all see my screen? Yes. Wonderful. Okay. Uh so good evening council members and Hoboken residents.
I'm Jennifer Gonzalez. I'm the director of climate action and innovation and I appreciate the opportunity to present the 2025 introduced budget for climate action innovation as well as the Hoboken water utility. Uh as many of you know the title of our department doesn't fully capture the expanse of our
responsibilities. Um, yes, we're tasked with preparing Hoboken and its most vulnerable residents to adapt to climate impacts while lowering our carbon footprint, but we also oversee some of the most consequential projects in Hoboken's recent history. These are generational improvements in every ward,
benefiting every resident of Hoboken, present and future. These capital projects range from major investments in flood mitigation such as Southwest Park expansion, 800 Monroe, Madison Street infrastructure upgrades, and of course coordination with NJD for the Rebuilt by
Design Hudson River project to other park projects such as Church Square Park, Maritime Park, and the Waterfront Reconstruction Project on Sinatra Drive. Facilities improvements such as the city hall portico rehabilitation and the city's water system improvement program.
We also support the capital needs of every other department such as structural improvements at the uptown firehouse, roadway projects like Castle Point Terrace among others. We collaborate across city departments, um, government agencies, nonprofits, private sector to upgrade Hoboken's aging
infrastructure and our technology to deliver modern city services. and we do so with a small but mighty, not to duplicate the phrase, but uh almost equally sized staff of nine employees. Um we're the smallest department in the
budget and our budget has decreased year-over-year. The introduced Department of Climate Action and Innovation budget is approximately $1.87 million and that comprises about 1% of the overall municipal budget. This represents a 2% decrease from the adopted budget of 2.02 million in 2024.
And the main reasons for this decrease are lower salary and wages in the divisions of sustainability and resiliency and the divisions of data and innovation. So to move on to our organizational chart, our department currently has nine employees. We share
an administrative assistant. Uh she supports departments of climate action, community development, and public safety. Our sustainability and resiliency division currently includes the arborist whose salary is fully fully grant funded. I as chief sustainability
officer and Caleb Stratton as chief resiliency officer are also performing uh sustainability and resiliency work which is not reflected in this organizational chart. And our capital planning division includes the manager of capital planning who also serves as
uh the deputy director. Our engineering division includes the city engineer, a water engineer, and a civil engineer. Our innovation and data division includes a solutions analyst and our information systems division includes the manager and supervisor of
information technology. The total headcount for the department reduced by one employee in the division of innovation and data as the manager of data and analytics was not backfilled uh after her departure. The division of engineering uh on this chart only shows two employees while the
last side slide showed three because the water engineer salary is fully funded by the water utility. A percentage of the salaries of the city engineer, civil engineer and the director are also funded by the water utility. To break it down by division, sustainability and resiliency has
decreased because of a staff departure. The salary for the arborist as mentioned previously is not included here because the position is grant funded. Engineering increased because an employee in the division earned a professional license last year. Uh responsibilities for the division
manager of capital planning also increased as that employee now serves as both division manager and deputy. Um, but this increase is actually offset by the savings to the city of me serving as both the assistant business administrator and director of climate action, which would not be possible without a deputy director sharing that
workload. Um, as much as I would love to clone myself, I cannot. Um the divisions of engineering and capital planning together are responsible for development, design, bidding, construction, administration, management, inspection, grants and
funding, stakeholder engagement, and ultimately the delivery of dozens of capital projects in addition to managing the municipal right ofway, code enforcement, and the water utility. Now, the division of innovation and data also decreased because of not back
backfilling a division manager. With one less full-time employee, the division is still taking on major projects to address quality of life concerns and improve delivery of services such as spearheading the development of a digital customer service portal, upgrading our meeting management platform, and developing a new city
website. These projects will improve transparency and accessibility, which were both direct requests from the city council. breakdown by appropriation type. Um, here's a budget breakdown of the information we discussed on the previous slide, but this shows appropriation type
and division and 2024 versus 2025 with expenditures. Overall salaries and wages decreased by 8% this year for the reasons previously mentioned. While our total operating expenses increased by only 3%. All operating expense lines remained flat this year except for
engineering, which increased by $30,000. This increase reflects additional work for statutory and permit compliance. And it should also be noted um that per the MOA between NJD and the city of Hoboken for the rebuilt by design project costs
associated with construction support shall be initially borne by the city and then submitted to NJD for reimbursement. So the city of Hoboken will be reimbursed for the loaded rate hourly rate of actual hours worked by certain city employees or consultants providing direct support to the Rebel by design
project. While it's difficult to estimate at this time that will offset a portion of our department's budget. Lastly, the costs associated with issuing road opening permits for other major con uh projects such as the review of maintenance and protection of
traffic plans are funded by escrow. So to illustrate the budget breakdown from the prior slide, the largest components of the department's budget are the divisions of information systems at 42% and engineering at 33%. Um the department appropriations are roughly split in half with 59% salary
and wage and 44% operating expenses. In terms of the anticipated revenue and grants for year-to- date in 2025, uh the engineering division administers road opening permits which generated more than 126,000 in revenue last year. Revenue may be higher this year, but uh
to be conservative, we've kept our uh estimate unchanged. We do anticipate at least $4.45 $5 million in new grants this year. And our team has secured millions of grants in prior years for construction projects or projects that are currently under
construction. While these grants do not fund salaries and wages, the Department of Climate Action provides a high return on investment. We bring in more funding than what's necessary to operate the department by an order of magnitude of at least 3 to one. And in conclusion, before moving on to the water utility,
uh our department implements a tremendous workload of projects and digital services to improve quality of life for our residents. We do so at less than 1% of the municipal budget with an exceptional team whose output just far surpasses our small number of employees. And I personally cannot thank our
employees enough. I'm so grateful to work with the best group of people to make our great little city even greater. And you know what? We we have been directed to do more with less and we are we have individuals taking on two or more roles. We are stretching our
employees to and beyond their limits and it's impacting our morale as you know from working very closely with each each member of our team and I know every council member has worked with us so closely. Um we have a group of really high speed and hardworking professionals
who truly love this city and care its future. any further cuts would come at the expense of resources available for important projects um and services that both our residents and you on their behalf have told us are a high
priority. So with that I'm going to move on to uh significantly greater detail about the water utility. Can we ask questions about that first before we move on? Um, I plan to do both together, uh, as
the water utility relates, but I I defer to Councilman Cohen. Okay. Whichever you prefer. That's fine. Okay. Is okay with you, Councilwoman? We'll let Director Gonzalez complete her presentation and then we'll we'll do both. Okay. Okay.
Um Oops. Okay. There we go. So, Hoboken water utility um as as you all know the Hoboken water utility provides safe and reliable drinking water and maintains the infrastructure system that provides water transmission and distribution
services to the more than 60,000 residents commercial and industrial establishments in Hoboken. Our dedicated staff in the division of engineering plan and implement capital investments such as water main replacement projects and enhance the reliability, efficiency, and sustainability of our water system through state-of-the-art technology in
leak detection and in pressure mitigation. They manage connection permits, policy development, program planning, and the utility budget, as well as oversee our contractor contract operator, Violia, who's responsible for the daily system operations and maintenance, including repairs, um,
water main brakes, repairs to water main brakes, serving as our NJD licensed system operator, water quality accountability act, compliance, and recordkeeping. The city's water distribution system includes more than 40 miles of water manes ranging in size from up to 30 in
in diameter. Um mains 475 large valves, 709 small valves, approximately 4,500 service connections along with 464 hydrants. Our water means age in range in age from 100 years or older to
sections that were installed as recently as this year. As part of the city's water mane replacement program, the water utility has already replaced over 25,000 linear feet or nearly 5 miles of aging water manes since 2016. By the end of 2025, the total will grow to
approximately 29,000 linear feet. And we plan to replace another 12,000 linear feet by 2030, representing nearly 20% of Hoboken's entire water system. The introduced water utility budget is approximately 15.8 8 million.
This represents a 25% year-over-year increase from the 2024 adopted budget of 12.6 million. The largest driver for this increase is the $2.5 million budget transfer to the general fund. This is a 1.65 million or nearly 200% greater than
the 2024 budget transfer of $850,000. With that, I will dive into our revenues and appropriations. Starting with revenues, our total revenues are estimated at 15.76 million. This is comprised of 13 million in water rents, 2.2 million in anticipated
surplus, and 563,000 in miscellaneous fees. Our assumptions for anticipated water rents are conservative. Through April, the utility has collected 5.1 million or about 49% of our anticipated water rents for the year.
Our increase in water rents reflects proactive investment in large meter replacements as well as an overall increase in consumption and dedicated collection efforts. We've completed 92% of large meter replacements or 159 meters greater than 3 in. We're focusing
on large meters because they have the greatest potential for water loss and the highest revenue. Consumption is up 11% through April 2025 compared to the same period last year and the commercial segment is up nearly 41%. Collections and payments through
April 25 are 18% higher. Moving on to appropriations matching revenue. Of course, our introduced total appropriations are 15.76 million, including the 10.9 million in other expenses, followed by 2.5 million
transferred to the general fund, 1.7 million in debt service, and 503 in salaries and wages, and 60,000 in statutory expenses. The water utility has one full-time employee, a water engineer. Hence, no organization chart was
included in this presentation. In addition, an average of 20% of the direct salaries for the four employees who work on the water utility are allocated to the utility. This includes, as I mentioned previously, the city engineer, civil engineer, director, and also finance
personnel. The surplus transfer to the general fund leaves the water utility with less surplus than the best practice prescribed by the government finance officers association. The GFOA generally recommends that water utilities maintain
cash reserves equal to at least 45 days of annual operating expenses. This helps the utility um that helps ensure that the utility can meet its financial obligations and also navigate unforeseen circumstances for the Hobok and water utility. This will be roughly $1.9
million. So by transferring 2.5 million to the to the general fund, we will have only 1.1 million remaining in surplus. This will hopefully be somewhat offset by higher water rents, as I mentioned before, um, better collections and consumption. If the current trend
continues, if the city keeps relying on water utility surplus, we will not have the rainy day fund for any significant emergencies or future capital needs. We provided a memo to the city council in 2024 that warned of how a transfer of 500,000 or greater from the water
utility to the general fund in 2025 would limit our additional borrowing capacity, preventing us from proceeding with future high priority projects included in the capital program. Yet now we're looking at a $2.5 million transfer to the general fund. This is simply not sustainable. It
threatens to undermine all of the progress that we've made through the proactive investments in bringing our aging drinking water infrastructure up to a state of good repair, reducing the number of water main breaks since the water utility was established in 2019. And it risks bringing us back to the lack of investment that we saw during
the former Suez contract. Here is a visual breakdown of the revenue and appropriations that we discussed on the last slide. Most of the revenue, 82% is from water rents. 14% is anticipated surplus and 4% is our fund balance. Other expenses are the largest
percentage of our appropriations at 70% which we'll discuss on the next slide, followed by 16% as the transfer to the general fund and only 4% is allocated to salaries and wages. Here's a breakdown of our other expenses. Bulk water comprises 5.6 6
million or more than half of the utility expenses about 55%. While JCMUA has not officially announced any rate increases, we are conservatively assuming an increase of 5% over actual consumption from 2024. The next largest component of other expenses is the fee for Violia as
our licensed water system operator. This is $2.4 million or 22%. In accordance with the agreement authorized by the city council, the Violia base fee increases by CPI each contract year, which is 3.75 this year or
$100,000. Capex is $1.4 million, which increases by 1.5% each year per the same agreement. This line covers our annual maintenance expenses, which we'll discuss further on the next slide. um professional services are $900,000 including bond council, water utility
council, auditors, financial consultants, and engineers. The increase in this line for 2025 reflects statemandated planning and engineering for lead service line identification, which is required for us to meet the deadlines in the New Jersey lead service line replacement law. And it also
accounts for engineering design for water main replacements and a rate study as our rates were adopted in 2022 for 3 years. General expenses are less than $20,000 and this includes supplies, conferences, and licenses. So to break down our
maintenance expenses, um this is what I referred to on the last slide as capex. More than half of these expenses are emergency work or responses to water main breaks. However, through the water utilities proactive investments in water infrastructure, Hoboken has seen an almost 68% reduction in water main
breaks from 2013 to 2024. This is followed by 175,160 or 18% for hydrants, 164,000 for um or 16% for service line work. And I should note that service line work um is
effectively to be reimbursed. All service lines are the responsibility of the property owner. We pay for this work up front and then bill it to the um customer. So those costs are largely reimbursed. Lastly, our fund balance. The water utility fund balance at the end of 2024
was 3.3 million. With the proposed transfer to the general fund, the projected fund balance at the end of 2025 is estimated at only 1.1 million. In conclusion, uh I would like to reiterate how director Stratton began these budget presentations by
encouraging you to reduce the reliance on water utility surplus in the municipal budget. We provide a vital service and one of the most basic human needs for our community, drinking water. We've come a long way in 5 years to improving the reliability of that resource through proactive investments
in modern infrastructure technology and dedicated professionals with direct oversight of water system operations. Let's not slow down. Now, I would be remiss not to thank our engineering and finance team as well as our partners at Violia and in public safety who work
around the clock to keep water flowing safely to every resident and business in our city. We really look forward to working together with the council and we appreciate your time this evening. So, with that, I'll take questions. Director, uh, thanks so much. And, uh, again, I mean, people talk about doing
less with more and you literally are doing that. So, thanks for that. Uh, Councilwoman Fischer, uh, you you wanted to ask a question at the end of the, uh, initial department presentation. So, I'm going to start with you. Uh, awesome.
Thank you. The, um, why don't if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if we can, we'll just start with the water utility. What is, if you go back and look um over the LA every single year for the last four years, No, it's not on
here. We've genated we've generated um significant amount of basically surplus um where we either had unanticipated miscellaneous revenues or anticipated. What do we think that number is going to
be this year? Because I know we have built-in water rate increases um in it. So how do you think about the regeneration of um water revenues this year? Yeah, I mean I I think
I think you know our anticipated surplus I I did provide on this slide. Where did I um you know 2.2 um so I I believe that we'll be looking at at 1.1 at the end of the year
about 1.1 million. Um again I can further refine those numbers as we go through the year a little bit but that's what we're uh anticipating right now. I think it's a different question. It's not so much the the that number if you look at water rents of 13 million. So
like last year we budgeted uh adopted 11 and a half million but we generated closer to 13 million in water rents. So we we generated this excess revenue that is what populates our it's the the positive that goes into it right you have a TBD. So when we think about the
13 million this year, um clearly that's close to what we generated last year, but don't we have water rate? Don't we have like CPI water rate increases now? And would we expect I I think the answer is yes, but I don't I don't know. Yes,
we do. It's 3.75 this year. So if we have is is this 13 million so we think about this 13 million is there a chance that that 13 million is going to be you know 13 and a half million and so we'll have additional half million hopefully
that is not anticipate or was not anticipated that will go and help um ease the the use of the surplus next year. Um, in short, yes. I can't give you an exact number, but yes, we are very conservative when we budget for water rents. Um, you know, we're using
last year's numbers plus 5% I believe is what we calculated. Um, great. Um, but yes, I do I do think those numbers are going to be higher. Um, but you know, I don't know by how much. Of course. I mean, we can't predict and we we just
can't predict. Can we go back to um unless Yeah, I just have one other question. We'll go back to the other department. Um the climate action one, it was very specifically on the
grant page the uh the NJ or I guess two things. They both relate to the D. So on this one, the 3.2 million, what is that for? The NJ D grant. Um, so that is for our Green Acres grants, plus we're actually in the
process right now of applying to a Living Shoreline grant um that we're we're very confident um that we're a a good fit for. Um but again, these are all anticipated. And so these grants are they generally have a matching appropriation attached to it. Um so if
we get the living shoreline, then it gets used kind of a like amount for uh a project that is the living shoreline. Uh yes. Um you know a a good example actually would be for um Tom Olivari Park. We received 750,000 from the state
and we actually are going to receive um 750,000 from the county. So that's the match. Um and you know it's actually going to cover the full project budget. Great. Oh, that's amazing. Actually, that's awesome. Um, so you mentioned that we can be reimbursed by the DE D
for like if we have to hire anyone for Rebuild by Design or some of um the time you spend. Have we have we um actually build them for anything yet? We are working on our first invoice um as we currently speak, preparing all of our time sheets and submitting all of our
backup documentation. Um, of course, it's going to be, you know, it's subject to um a rigorous review. We want to ensure that all of our records are um are put together properly. Do you want any like records from me? I'm just kidding. Um but do we think it's a lot
of money? I do think it's a it's a substantial amount. I mean, we were we're dedicating a significant amount of time to that and all of the construction coordination around the city, ensuring that we're mitigating impacts as much as we can. Great. Okay, that was it. Thank you very
much. I appreciate it. Mhm. And you know, I I just want to echo this is a great slide and those grant applications don't write themselves. Uh that takes it takes a lot to get the kind of revenues generated by a department and it's great. I mean, it's really exceptional
that you're getting that kind of money into the city for that stuff. Uh so with that, direct uh Councilman Russo, turn it over to you. Thank you, Councilman. Director, a couple things. Um let's start with the uh with the water utility.
So the the the conversation that we started when uh director Freeman introduced this budget that narrative of you know not utilizing surplus and and not only our general surplus but you
reiterated it here and and Caleb now as our um our business administrator has reiterated it as well. Um, we're we're talking about, if you could go back to that slide, I think it was a jump from Yeah. 11 I'm sorry,
700,000 to 2.2 million, right? As far as using that surplus into our general fund and and everyone has been warning us not to do that. Why is it that none of you have
recommended that in the form of what you presented to us? Why didn't you say, "No, I'm sorry. I could only use $700,000 in anticipated surplus to the general fund." I I
haven't heard from anyone that you kind of laid down that law to say this is going to put us in a in a position where we're concerned, so we are not willing to do that. Could you could you kind of rectify that for me and and those that are concerned because I've heard the
narrative now three or four times and it's almost it feels to me almost like the the administration and the directors are kind of passing that buck because the council wants to do this. But none of that was ever presented to
us in a way where those numbers weren't were weren't given to the council at at those prior year levels. So could if you could just explain to me how you kind of rectify that yourself and justify that without presenting a budget in the form
that you were comfortable with. I I think I can take a stab at that um Councilman and then if Jan has anything to add. Is that okay with you? Sure. So the process by which we develop a budget um is we make recommendations based on
what we see as ongoing city expenses. um we sit down with the CFO and the mayor and ultimately the budget gets delivered to you in this format. And so I think that you've heard not just from director Gonzalez but from a number of the other directors on you know we didn't rehire
here and we cut this expense here and at the end of the day um this is the budget that we are asked to introduce and I think that u at least how I would characterize my recommendations are you're hearing from the business
administrator we're using surplus generator from a water utility that could be uh used to uh modify a rate study. Uh if we have cash on hand for capital expenses, that may change what is ultimately recommended when we go
into financing our obligations that I think director Gonzalez talked about were how many linear feet of water means are we investing in. I think that you've seen um from the prior contract operator to this contract operator, what happens when we don't um budget for plan for
those addition. Yeah, director that that that's not what I'm asking. I'm not asking about all those those ancillary things. What I'm what I'm asking is a very direct question that if you and our prior business administrator and other directors feel that utilizing these
anticipated surpluses to a level that you're not comfortable with, how are you rectifying that? Because again, it almost feels like you're pushing that off onto the council to say, "Council, you shouldn't do this." But we were never presented with a budget where that
anticipated and I'll just use this because it's in front of us. It wasn't presented at 700,000. It was presented at 2.2 million 214% increase in surplus that we're anticipating to be used into our general
fund. So for me, you can't have it both ways. Either you are comfortable with that to present it to us as a council or you are not comfortable with that and you should not have presented it to us as a council. And again, I just want to
understand how you rectify that because the narrative seems to be that well, the council continues to want to use more surplus. And quite honestly, I'm okay with that in certain circumstances, but I don't understand how any of you are
are are justifying that to yourselves or the general public to say, "Well, we really don't want to do this, but we've never presented you with a budget that does not do this." So, how is that how is that coming about? Where is that decision in the process where each
director says, "Okay, I'll swallow $2.2 million in this case." That that's what I don't understand. So, please help me to understand that because I think that's a ongoing question not only for me, but I think for a lot of members of the public who kind of dig into the
numbers often. Sure. So what I would I would characterize these recommendations coming from the directors and from the business administrator as one talking about kind of the downstream impacts of using surpluses to balance liabilities. So you've heard this from me before. We
have uh debt service medical um we have pension expenses that we think the levy should grow to handle those long-term expenses. Correct. I'm going to I'm going to cut you off. Okay. cut you off because you're talking about all these
things that you potentially would use that additional funding for. I'm asking you how and why you and the other directors have chosen to present to the council numbers that you are uncomfortable with. Not about what you
can do with that money if you did not present that budget. I'm asking you why you presented the budget as you did if you were so uncomfortable with using a surplus. Well, we're directed by the mayor to prepare and introduce a budget to the
city council. And I don't I don't want to feel like these are recommendations necessarily coming from the individual directors. We're trying to provide you insight into the decision-m on trying to reduce levy. So you're you're saying we can't have both things, but I think that we want to
balance levy growth to a manageable point. And to do that, we have to make offsetting cost decisions using practices that I do not believe our budget can sustain in the long term related to different surpluses. So I if I'm missing your question, I'm happy to
continue talking about I I I I think I think we understand that the there's at some point I don't I don't understand the specifics because I don't think you really spoke to it, but I think we understand at least enough to know that somewhere along the process, whatever those recommendations are, there's
there's a collaboration amongst the mayor, the directors, and the finance department, and then this is what comes to the city council. But it but it's concerning to me that we're talking about things that we don't want to do, but we're still presenting them to the council in a form that we're going to do them. So, I'll dig in a little bit about
this specifically. Uh, Director Gonzalez, it it looks like we went from $700,000 to 2.2 million in anticipated surplus. Mhm. And then if you look at our water rents, we went from 11.5
million to 13 million, which is the exact amount of money that we're increasing in use of surplus to the general fund. Well, not exact exact, but pretty close. So to me it looks like we
have chosen to increase our water rates to fund that additional surplus into our general fund. And that is not accurate, Councilman. And that's why I asked the question because it looks that way, right? the numbers could be a
coincidence, but at the end of the day, we know we're increasing that dollar amount and then we're also using that same dollar amount into an anticipated surplus into our general fund. So, if you could just explain that um where those numbers come from and why that is
not accurate in the way I presented it. So, uh to clarify, water rates are set by ordinance. They were set three years ago um well before what we're talking about as a as a surplus transfer to the general fund. They are set to meet the
obligations of the the water utility on an annual basis as well as the projected needs for capital moving forward. Um should this funding not be transferred to the general fund, it would allow for more improvement, more capital improvements, and that's what these
numbers were generated based off of. Um so you know we are looking at an increase from 23 to 24 of 1.65 million over what we had um transferred to the general fund uh last year. That would be
funding that would be available for additional borrowing capacity for sure. Right. But um we're presenting to you the budget as introduced and we are giving you information and and um context that the city council can use to
work together with the administration to come to uh you know a budget. But we are pointing out that you know the amount of of surplus transfer is um is unsustainable in the long term because the purpose of that transfer you know was the long-term health of the water
utility um you know providing for that rainy day fund and and those capital expenses. Well, I guess it goes to my final question on this. Is it because those water rates were set three years ago as you said? Were you comfortable because we knew we had that additional
money coming in and you were comfortable increasing from 700,000 to 2.2 million in anticipated revenue in the form of surplus to our general fund. Is that what drove that uh that conversation that you were comfortable enough presenting that to the city council at
that level? We're presenting to you the budget as introduced. I I don't know that we're comfortable because I I think I've spent a good amount of my time today explaining to you why we're not comfortable. So, we're comfortable
enough to be okay with introducing that number. You might not like it, but but at the end of the day, yeah, said use $8 million. I I don't think you would have been okay with that. Correct. Correct. Well, that wasn't there to use.
Um but but to you know to uh you know to to answer your question it's it's balancing right and um our understanding is is certainly the need to keep the levy low while also um you know maintaining uh surplus in the utility
and our my preference my personal preference as someone who really really cares about the water utility and and helped it you know since its inception right it would be less transfer from the water utility to the to the general fund. Um but again that it is it is
really a discussion and uh a discussion point for future collaboration between the council and the administration as to what what the right number is. Understood. Um if you could if you don't mind going back to uh the department outside of the water utility and just
get to the salary uh slide that you had. Um, keep forward. I'm sorry. Sorry. Uh, this one. This one right here. Yeah. Um, oh, let's talk about the uh engineering. So, engineering at uh 12%
increase there. Um you said that was specific for uh someone's professional lensure or another uh license or whatever it may be may have been. Yes. Um and and keep in
mind uh this is salary and wage and operating expenses together. Um so as I noted as well there's also an increase in operating expenses in the engineering line of approximately $30,000 for permit compliance. But yes to your question about salaries and wages it is um related to professional lensure. So, so
that goes to my question. If if we have now a an an in-house engineer who has a a higher level skill set, why are we and maybe we are, maybe we aren't, but why does it appear to be
increasing our for outsourced engineers? Why aren't we pulling more of that in-house versus keeping it in those outsourced um contracts? So uh there are several reasons but but the biggest is simply our workload has
increased dramatically. Um as I mentioned before a lot of the projects that we're working on um that really are are of benefit to every ward in the city of Hoboken require a tremendous amount of planning and engineering design. Um some of that is done by by out you know
outside professionals. Majority of of the actual design is done by outside professionals who may have a specialized expertise that we don't have in house. Um you know specifically say for example water system engineering. We have a lot of expertise in water system engineering but design um is something that requires
a tremendous amount of um additional work that we would not be able to you know we wouldn't be able to do inhouse without you know the detriment to all of the other projects that we're working on. we simply could not do the
volume of work that that we do. Um and there are you know very specialized um uh you know fields that we do need assistance with outside engineering assistance with all of those whether they are be outside engineers or in-house engineers are supervised by our
in-house staff. Right. Our our uh city engineer supervises all of them. Yeah. I I guess the the real question is what can be brought inhouse that we not necessarily have to go out and and have an additional contract to try to keep that O&E down and and the answer may be
nothing but I'd like to at least explore it so I I understand it a little bit better. Yeah. I I I think the short answer to you would be um do less work and provide less benefits. Gotcha. And then um if you could go, it might be in
the next slide where it was specific to the salary and wage. It was budgeted this one. Yeah, I think this is it. if it was Yeah, the uh the salary wage that
was expended in 24 was $738,000 and then we're introducing $88,000. What caused the $70,000 increase there? I I know it it's a decrease from what
was adopted in 24, but we tend to see this year year-over-year where we introduce or we adopt something and then what's actual expended is significantly less. So this
would be a $70,000 roughly $70,000 increase from what was expended last year into what we're anticipating in 25. What was that increase for? So, uh it's not an increase. Um it is technically in
terms of what was expended, but that's solely because we had two employees leave. One of them one of those positions was filled and one of them was not backfilled. um you know, so you're looking at at 2024 effectively only being a partial
year of um certain employees salaries because they left. Okay. So you're you're accounting $70,000 for a partial a year for one employee. It it's a variety of of you know
multiple employees, but yeah, I mean it's it's basically you said we didn't backfill the one employee. We didn't backfill the manager. Yeah. So if you look at the divisions um more specifically let's see uh innovation and data um you'll see that the 2024 adopted
was 160 um and expended was 78. That was because we didn't backfill the manager of data and analytics. We did have a solutions analyst who was brought on um at a lower salary. Uh in addition um sustainability and resiliency expended
less than um was budgeted for in 2024 because uh you know that employee left partway through the year um and has not been backfilled. So you know there there's a a um so that wouldn't account for an increase that
would account for a decrease. That's what I'm explaining to you is is is the decreases. But you know we do have to backfill some of the positions. Um I don't I don't discount that. What I'm saying is what was the I mean there's a
$70,000 increase to salary and wages and it doesn't look like there were any contractual increases or anything other than than what would just be your your small CPI increase. So yeah. So um
the engineer we've discussed we've um oh what we have not discussed is uh capital planning there was an increase in the um salary and wages in the capital planning line and that was because um as I mentioned in the presentation the uh
manager of capital planning has taken on uh a tremendous amount as I have also moved into the assistant business administrator role um and the manager of capital planning is now serving is the deputy director and for all intents and purposes acting director. Um but that is
actually a cost savings to the city because um we're not backfilling the position in the ABA's office and um it's not a full director's role. It's only a deputy role. Uh so it's actually overall savings to the city but it is a small
increase in the um department of climate action. I mentioned all that in the presentation. So, so that person is now acting as the deputy director. In essence, the director, which means you're you're
being taken more toward the assistant business administrator's role. I am. Yes, I am splitting my time and also splitting my workload. Okay. Are we are we accounting for that in the budget in each department or is this just your
salary in the director's office that went up to account for that? Uh if I So my salary is still included in the director's office just in this department. You you have no
salary associated with your role as the assistant business administrator now. Um I believe so. Yeah. So, no, there is a there is a small portion of of my salary that is accounted for in the assistant business administrator, but the vast majority of it is in the director's
office. Okay. But you're here, right? But the concern I have there is that if most of your role is now outside of this department, why? I wouldn't say most. I'm here presenting this evening by what you
said. You you said the assistant director of this department is in essence the director because they're handling most of it. So I'm I said splitting my workload were the words I used. But um that said I I am doing yes
multiple roles. Um and that is truly it that is the where we are with with our budget. We are trying to bring on fewer people and have the same people do more jobs. That's that's really what it comes down to. We're all
taking on more. Well, I mean, the question is, why is more of the salary associated in this department than the other department? Is it because we have a a higher rate of revenue in this department versus others so that we could balance that a little bit more? Is that is that the decision process there
for the budget? I think it's as simple as I've been in the the Department of Climate Action. I I think that's it. It there's nothing more to it than that. Okay, that's all I have for now. I appreciate it. Thank you, director.
Councilman Councilman President, you're up. Thank you, Councilman Cohen. Um, so I'm not going to beat a dead horse. However, I am going to just ask this one question. So, what count it alludes to
what Councilman Russo was speaking about. So in other words, the 1.5 million in extra surplus revenue generated that will be put towards the general uh fund if we did not do that. So that 700,000 remains the same. Uh and I'm
rounding up so just to numbers here that we would have another hole of 1.5 or 1.4 million in the budget if we didn't do this because it's very odd. I will say usually it's the council that is introd introducing
using surplus whereas I've heard from past, present and other directors that using surplus is not something that's fiscally responsible. Uh however again this was presented to us. So I'm asking the one question I don't know if director Gonzalez it's you or um
director Stratton that this if we did not use the 2.2 2 this year of the surplus. So we only used the 700. That 1.5 would create a gap in what we would have to raise taxes. So we'd have to raise the 7% would become a rough number
up to like post nine something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it it could be. Yes. Okay. That's a yes. All right. So, and from what I understand, the administration staff is not
comfortable with what was presented based upon what you have said in many of these uh conversations. And again, I'm not asking for a response. I'm just going to make a statement. So, this is the mayor telling you what to do to send
to us. and then we as the council will never ever push a use of surplus most of the time. uh however this was presented to us and you don't feel comfortable based upon actually there was a line you used
based on good I think you quoted some positive uh or some good housekeeping rules that are dictated that having enough cash on hand to uh sustain any type of little bumps that happen uh that this is this budget is not something
that everyone is comfortable presenting to the council that I I'm going to say the words because I I know that you report to the mayor and you work for the mayor. However, based upon everything that I've heard, the staff does not feel comfortable with this budget. That said,
I'm going to move on to a couple other questions that I have here. Um, what is the burn rate per day? I know you were talking about the cash. Is there any particular number that goes along with that? Um, I mean, I
could divide 15.7 by 365. No way. But I would have to get you a more accurate number if that's really what you're looking for. So you so you said you just need 45 days essentially is like correct me if I'm wrong or that's what we're left with. No, we So 45 days is is the
recommended standard which is about $1.9 million. Okay. And so now we're under that to we're probably down to 30 days or something along those lines. Rough calculation. Okay. Um All right. Uh I noticed your insurance cost line uh and that stayed flat from year to year. Uh
that is an interesting one because insurance everywhere is exploding uh from residential to commercial and maybe the insurance I'm not maybe it's something different that I'm not uh 100% uh familiar with. But that's not moving
at all. Correct. Correct. I I can look into that further for you, but my understanding is that's not moving. Okay. All right. And there's one other thing. Has there ever been any uh thought process here on Hudson Street? We've had ma uh some waterline issues which you are very well aware of and
we've had backup into people's houses and the we can put claims into the NHSA. We can put sorry into the water utility into the city. Uh and I know for example one individual that was affected by the
latest water main break on Hudson is has some substantial damage that we or we the city or I should say the city is not probably not responsible and I know that there was another one on six and Hudson same thing. Have we ever thought about
buying insurance with some of this surplus that is existing to make sure our residents are protected? I know these are oneoffs. However, when I hear the the damage, the numbers that were given to me by the residents of the
damage that was that they suffered on a water mane break happening in the street and somehow got to their house. I don't know how. I don't know the logistics of it, but is there anything that we purchase as far as insurance to help I
don't know if the word right word is subsidized, but uh I it str I struggle for me to understand that a water main break in the in the road gets to somebody's house into their basement or into their, you know, ground floor. So, have we explored anything to have some
type of insurance to help that process with some of the extra monies that we see laying around in the water utility? No. Okay. I can explore more I can explain more how water gets into basements, but no. As regards purchasing
prop uh insurance for individual property owners, um no, that is not um you know that is not something that we consider. Not so much individual, but like if you have a situation, I know some water main breaks do not flood somebody's house, but this was under
somehow it happened underground. I mean, the water was flowing downhill on the Hudson and somehow it filled into someone's basement and again, of course. Yeah. But I just I'm curious. We have extra money if we thought about purchasing insurance because this is not not happening every day, thank God. Uh but there are the one-offs. I know we're
not talking like $10,000 damage. We're talking $50 $100,000 damage. And it's something that I think I would like to see maybe in future. Maybe not this budget. Um, so the other thing I wanted to ask about
is the uh current administration sitting at the federal level is cutting things left and right and you basically can't count on a grant. So I had one question because we did talk about the arborist and that is a million dollar grant over
three years. If if god forbid that grant is cut, do we have the ability to is that become a cost for us or is there ability to sever that that uh obligation that we have uh
based upon this grant? Um so all indications that we have are that that funding is not in jeopardy. Of course everything is subject to further federal review. I you know I totally understand that. Um, but you know, I I
think that to have a a discussion about a specific employee, I'd prefer to do more research and reply back to you. Okay. I'd be curious on any of the grants just because of that because we don't know. This is the first time in the in the federal government that we walked into this type of scenario where
you're awarded something and it disappears. I would be curious that if we're going to be left holding the the cost, that's something we also need to prepare for in a budget that if uh if we do have a grant, it may only be 80% that we might be quote unquote covered for
and we might have to eat the other 20 just because of a a fluke like this, which uh as the mayor stated, we've already lost some funding in certain things. Um, from that standpoint, the other question I had in many of these grants, is there any costs that come
back to the city, direct costs that are not covered by the grant? for federal public assistance projects. We for in general if we get a grant and we you pick the thing. Is there any kind of is there any kind of direct cost that
the grant may not cover that the city is now because we got that grant it may cost us $50,000 because we have to maintain something. We have to maintain a machine that we got uh from them. Is there anything like that? I I totally understand your question now. Uh,
however, I think you'd have to look at the very each individual grant. Most of the grants that um that I highlighted are are for, you know, projects. They don't come with any specific um additional requirements like that. Um, I apologize. Let me go back
to so I can look into each individual grant, but of the ones that I'm seeing here, no, you know, they're not purchasing anything that that would be subject to additional requirements like that.
Um, but every grant is different, every funding agency is different, and every, you know, scope of work associated with a grant award is different. So I can't give you an across the board answer of this. I think the short answer is no. We usually will or we will always
if there's a cash match we have to have an appropriation by the council or um a personnel cost like a a inind contribution we have to like put a performer together and say you know if Caleb and Jenn are managing that their their value is X which can be our match
for the grant. And then the only other case that I'm aware of is um for a lot of federal grants, we will have direct administrative costs which will be like if we get $400,000, we can through our grant writing team bill back 5% or 10% that
doesn't come out of our actual grant award. In the numbers of the 4.5 million, how much of this will we have to match? I don't think she uh Yeah. So, so I can get you a a specific breakdown. I do know that there are matching requirements for the two
Green Acres grants um off the top of my head, but I can get you a a specific breakdown. Okay. Thank you very much. That's all the questions I have and thank you um it's for navigating a difficult a couple questions there. Thank you very much,
Councilman. Uh, I believe that is the end of council comments and questions. Thank you, Director Gonzalez. Uh, appreciate your time and uh, thoughtful answers to all those questions. Uh, and
next up we have public safety director. And good evening, ladies and gentlemen of the council. U, this is going to be a very different uh, presentation than the rest that you've seen. It's the last one that you have. uh where it is very personnel driven,
salary and wage driven. Uh as you hear me at different council meetings reminded that public safety division has grown over the last two years public safety department from four divisions to eight. You'll hear tonight on police,
fire, OEM, EMS, security, health and human services, communications, and social workers. Before Jason Freeman left his BA, having a talk with him about this budget, uh I was under the assumption I was up to 65%
of the personnel in the city. But actually it is 73% of the workforce falls under my division just under 600 employees and also the responsibility of some 150 paid and volunteer EMTs as they
now come under the city in a hybrid situ in a hybrid system where the agreement with the city put a member of the administration me being the public safety director on their board of directors in monthly meetings uh making decisions about how that system is
working. It is very personnel and salary wage driven. As you'll see in the upcoming slides, 97% of this division is salary and wage. Only 3% in OE. You will not see large O&
costs in the millions. You will not see projects. And another thing to please keep in mind in the public safety division, it is not something that is revenue driven. You're not going to see public safety be in the revenue business. We will see some grants that
will offset some costs that we apply for almost every month. Very successful in the police and fire divisions over past coming years, but we are unable to grow revenues. the public and even I think some council members once once in a
while feel summones upscale upticks in enforcement is for revenue purposes that it couldn't be further from the truth. In most of our summones that are given by our divisions that are under public safety
85% of those fines go to the state of New Jersey when we use state statutes. The other 15% goes to our violations bureau and offsets those costs in violations and the courts. I'm the only director that
manages divisions that covers all seven unions members. All seven. Now, we used to have six city unions, but we added a seventh this past year when our court attendance and security staff unionized and separated from the U public employee
part-time union. My day-to-day business includes personnel issues hourly when you're dealing with that many uh personnel whether from retirements to discipline to salary issues to hirings to
interviews as we look for promotions or hiring. Emergencies occur almost daily and I'm working with those division heads and those chiefs in in dealing with that. If we could turn to the first slide. If we can just go to the next one
because I want to come back to this one because I want I give an overview. Very good. Thank you, John. So, here are our numbers for the divisions. If we look at the first one in the director's office going from just 275 to 265,000.
What you see there is it's just because of one less employee and also that is that is the line where we get our communications our public safety communications uh salary and wage and also a couple stipens for our uh ad director's office for either
communications or for OEM. When we go to our second line, our police division, you will see a $340,000 increase at 2%. Uh, a 2% increase that is taking into contractual obligations which kick
in a raise come July 1st. And what the budget will see is taking on half of that year of that of that raise because it kicks in on July 1st. So, it's a half a year. The police division currently is working with 143
employees. Our former table organization was 146. The city council back in December increased that to 156. We had a table organization ordinance to go to 184 that stalled over
the last several council meetings uh and in committee. The committee will see me come back uh in coming meetings and the next couple council meetings trying to get that number to 174 as we lay out the future of growing a community policing unit so that Chief Aguar can put walking
cops throughout the city parks street waterfront housing day and night. Just to recall, when we hire a police officer, when we first certify a list, from the time we certify a list, it takes 16 months to get that applicant to
be a full-fledged police officer on a street. So, while we're sitting with 143 current time, you're talking any addition right now will take 16 months, a year and four months to get there. When we go to the next line, our emergency
management, you're going to see in a $150,000 increase, you're going to say, "Where is this 22% increase coming?" So, we added a part-time employee to handle OEP managing OEP and those 25 to 30
assignments daily and also the hundreds of vendors that the division deals with each year needed someone that could oversee that. uh in their in their entirety have a part-time schedule of 24 25 hours a week. We added a couple
stipens so that small $5,000 $4,000 stipens so that we can increase the amount of staff that we can call and they have to be on call for us if we have a middle of the night weekend or holiday emergency. And another thing we did in discussions
with Chris Baldwin, our finance, our CFO, we doubled the overtime. So you're saying, how could you double the overtime? So, we doubled it from 40,000 to 80,000 because what the ordinance did that you had passed back in 2023 that
director Gonzalez and I brought to you regarding the fees for all the events in the city, it gave us the ability to have those vendors reimburse us for OEM course. Most of the events need OEM for setting up of barricades, ensuring we
don't have any infrastructure issues, there's no damages to city properties or infrastructure when people have events, and also closuring of streets and making sure it's properly uh sealed off until it's fully cleaned by our sanitation, which the vendor pays for the sanitation
fees. So when you see a doubling of the overtime up to 80,000, all of that 80,000 will be reimbursed by vendors from events. Our next line, our fire department line, you will see a 2%
increase from uh basically $400,000 from 19.9 to 20.3 million. Basically just that had to encompass some already contra contractual obligated longevity raises every two or three years. some an employee will go up 2%. So that's all
you're seeing there. One thing is very good to see, we were able to lower our overtime line by a third and possibly with the way they're trending, possibly by the end of the year use that money to a later line, which I'll discuss in a little while,
with a a line item transfer within our own division. when the council allowed me to expand our fire service in num in numbers of firefighters and we've did that twice in the last two years increased our total up to 130
firefighters eight firefighters we are now doing two things overtime is almost non-existent where we budget I bud I've always budgeted this is about my 14th or 15 buzzer presentation in front of you since I was OEM and I was chief I
learned from our state takeover to budget for 5% of your regular workload. So I take the hours of police and firework and I budget our overtime to be 5% of that. Anything over 10% you have an overtime problem. So when I take when
I take the 5% we were able to slash this big time by adding firefighters to our service. We were while we budgeted for 330 hours for payroll, we were paying two years
ago 500 600 hours of overtime, which is a problem. We are right now trending that all but one payroll this year was under 200 hours of overtime paid out in the fire division. And we've had several
that was under a 100red. While we budgeted for 600, we're trending to be at about 400, which is going to give us 600 $200,000 at the end of the year if we don't have any unexpected emergencies, which can always happen, especially going into hurricane
season. The other thing that also did both from a council standpoint and administration, and allowed the fire chief to put two more firefighters on engines every single day, all four groups. That's what those eight increased. We now have the national
standard of having four firefighters on every engine responding to a fire, which it saves lives. We saw in the NORC fires on that cargo ship. The blame by the fire unions, by the fire chief was there wasn't enough firefighters on those on
those engines. And it's why we lost two firefighters in that in that fire in New York. We go to the next line in building security and you see 22% increase. Well, how is that? That sounds large. So they unionized. They they created their own
collective barg room at their own association. We did two things. We hired two security guards. We had lost a total of two over the prior two years for those that left the job. So we had replaced two of them. And then just
recently we now put we replaced the head supervisor position in there. They also received two raises this year from that new contract. There's one that kicks in July 1st which gives them about an extra four or five dollars per hour each. And
that is something that this council was basically telling us, please take care of these security guards and court attendants the last few years and this year we had a very healthy negotiation at the end of 2024 and those raises are kicking in in 2025. That's why you see that
$120,000 added expense. We go to the next line in health and we unfortunately see a 51% increase. Why is that? So we talked about federal grants, those that have been taken away. We lost
a grant that was a $170,000 from the federal government which covered some programs and also covered salary of one of our social workers. So that is something that we had to come
back with in our our own revenue our own our own budgeting instead of receiving the revenue of a grant. We also small amount we we added a deputy registar. We did did that transfer internally from
the health department into vital statistics with a with a a small raise which somebody that has has the capabilities to be a future registar by certification and just in the one month since we had that position. uh many of the uh requests that we were getting
from about vital statistics is now being alleviated and honestly have not received a complaint in a month regarding vital statistics uh as it's for everything that people want as far as marriage licenses, birth certificates, dog licenses uh those type of certificates and this adding that
third staff and adding a deputy registar is helping our registar and our other employee that's in that vital statistics. our seven blind, the volunteer ambulance corp. You still have a $40,000 donation that goes to them. Uh
at basically a donation which is for their service, their volunteer service on nights and weekends. I want you to recall that from 2023 and prior, the city was budging also for $250,000 towards their insurance. So close to
$300,000 used to come on this on this line. Another reason why now this $40,000 shows up here was that last year we paid it through ARP funds. Those ARP funds are are now completed and our
$40,000 donation this year to the volunteer in school needs to come from uh that line. So the last line, why is there $1,000? What are you going to buy for $1,000? Probably not even a bike nowadays. So we are keeping this line. Uh so that line is in the budget. Uh we
are not scheduling any purchases right now of police or fire OEM vehicles even though we would like to but we're trying to be budget conscious. However, if we're able to make internal line item transfers within our own budget where we're good with overtime example by the
fire or other uh or get an unexpected grant, we are hoping to be able to purchase some vehicles whether it's police, OEM or fire out of that line. Uh, I would just like to make a a point because I touched on two things that just may need some clarification before
you get the questions. OEM and OEP. Why do we need a full-time uh employee? So, back in 2015, we made a ordinance and a policy for our outside appointment for the police officers working those traffic details. Why did we do this back
then? In 2014 and 2015, the cities of Jersey City, Lynon, and Union City had police officers that were arrested for some irregularities and basically criminal behavior that was happening under OEP. And we have put safeguards in place since 2015 by
ordinance, by policy, and by oversight. And the person that we brought in to help with that worked with Chris Baldwin to make sure all of our finances were good in OEP. you're talking about millions of dollars coming in that come in from a vendor and go right back out.
Uh is an area for a lot of mistakes or other things and we we have a person in place said uh made the CFO very happy with his audit and we're in a very good place with OPIG. Uh the other thing with security,
why add too? Do we need it? Yes, we have other facilities now where requests are made for security personnel as we have offices down in the multi-ervice center. We have programming down in the multiservice center. We have recreation that happens at the multi-ervice center, happens at the Damon Murray gym. Uh we
have added responsibilities due to some things like first amendment auditors that came in and challenged security guards countywide uh back in 2024. And our security staff is now trained. Uh they're ready. It's better to have a
second and third set of eyes when people are coming in and out to your courts, to your city hall, especially people that are coming in to antagonize and test. Uh and again, it's about replacing. We replaced two that had left the prior year. We did not replace them in 2024,
but there was a a growing need. Jennifer, could you just go back to now that that one which shows the net and pos uh net gain and positive uh of each division. So we look at the director's office there is one less employee the
police uh division we have a a net of five due to retirements. Uh we had gained nine officers five less part-time. uh emergency management, we we've added
five uh over the year from with part-time employees and stipens and we had three less part-time employees. Our fire department grew by another four based on grant on the firefighter end and uh we had two less part-time
employees who left building security. Uh where was I see a number of 24 uh that was more that should that should have been uh less. We did not have a a net loss of nine. We actually had from 24 to 25 a
net gain of two. I did not work on a slide. the health division as you see we have we've added one with the uh deputy registar and of course ambulance none of that staff is paid for by city uh by city finances that is paid
through billing uh we began billing in 2023 and uh not one complaint because we do not double bill our patients but that has fully covered the ambulance court to pay for the paid employees the paid DMTs
and also this past year, this past January, purchased a brand new ambulance uh to the tune of some $120,000, not one penny paid by uh city taxpayer money. If we can go to the uh next page,
please. Okay, the let me just see the O and page. One one right before, please. Okay, there we go. So, in OA, as I as I said in the beginning, only 3% of the public safety budget is O and A. So, in
the director's office, we're talking just about training and supplies. Uh our number two, the police division that is very ITheavy computer upgrades, your uh computer AED dispatching system and
your mandate of um sorry one second I need the on page. Sorry about that. Okay, there we go. That that's there we go. Sorry about that. So again, the police division
of $866,000 on that page that is mandated body cams. When whenever you hear about officers having body cams on based on the camera and the data storage, basically each employee of the Hoboken Police Department that wears a body cam,
which is every every full-time officer, you're talking about an average of $1,000 per uh per employee. So for 146 officers, you're talking about 146,000
of that O and E line is is comes from uh from body cams. On the emergency emergency management side, generators, lights, that is usually the the the that's the biggest cost there. Uh the next one, the fire department, their OE
needs come from gas meters, oxygen tanks, and usually uh you'll see a lot of repairs for uh fire engines. A lot of equipment needs there that go on fire engines, hoses, uh different types of
breaching equipment that is used and then needs needs uh replacement. On the fifth line, the building security, same thing. You only see $5,000 uh there with the building security. Uh again, training, we spent it on the uh first amendment order to
training last year. our health department. Uh you see $139,000 for the various programming from COVID to flu to measles to monkey pox to uh autism awareness all all the work that the health department is doing
in the programming and some of the files that they do for their their inspections. I'd like to point out that our health department, and really you're talking about a health officer, an assistant health officer, three inspectors, a clerk, are doing
over 100 inspections a month. Now, I forward the reports to our our BA and assistant BA when we when we get them at the end of the month. outstanding work in keeping our city safe by making sure our restaurants, our bars, our
daycarees, all of our schools are up to code, up the standard to top to the top of the satisfactory level since the health department fell under me in November of 2023 and adding our assistant health officer that we brought in and
increasing to that 100 inspections a month, we only closed eight businesses to this point, eight businesses and that is after uh egregious violations. So, uh they they do a great job with that. Uh
on the 7th, the the volunteer ambulance score, that's only again for the donation. And again, we have that $1,000 line for PD. If we go to the introduced department budget breakdown, the graphs page, uh, as you see the two just the two
things that stand out, 94% of our of our public safety budget are the salaries for our police and fire because of the the size of their staff, uh, what police officers and fire department and firefighters get paid. And we had salary
increases, contract increases that were approved by council administration over the past year because I think we all knew there needed to be a way to attract law enforcement officers. That's been a a driving uh theme around the state uh
jockeying for where do I transfer to, where do I apply to? And uh our staff is doing very good uh with keeping our numbers as high as they can and also uh doing a good job with both recruitment and now having the ability where the
contracts that you approved has people wanting to come to Hoboken to be police officers. If we go to our summary page, a few things to point out there. So again, 30% of the city's appropriations comes right out of this
out of this department. Again, why is that? 73% of personnel, salary, benefits, pensions, it's $45 million of this $150 million proposed budget. And a key thing is the year to year
year-over-year budget change. In my last 14- 15 years of budgets, whether it be from OEM, from police, and now the last four years with public safety, you always see I I bring a conservative budget that brings you somewhere always between a 1% decrease and a 2% increase.
All of my prior budgets have fallen into that. This year, you see a 3% increase, which you know that is very conservative. We've wanted to increase staff. We have in police and fire. We have pension costs. pension costs. City
municipalities get a bill year to year from uh from the state. The pension costs are extremely high this year as the state in the governor's last year is trying to do a major service to the budget of the pensions uh to make him uh
solvent for the next 40 50 years. The pension bill this year is somewhere near in the area of 40% of of salaries. So something that is out of the hands of a director or even administration when you have that increase and also contractual
obligations. Almost all of the employees that come under my department work under CBAs. CBAs that both the administration negotiated and the city council has approved. So I think with the expansions, we've heard
from multiple reasons why we ask for expansions of workforce in public safety. I believe a 3% year-over-year budget change is very conservative and honestly with that most of that is
contractually committed. So half my job is not only putting together a budget for you but managing it managing our overtime, managing the all the divisions. Our BA and assistant BA know each first of the month, our division
heads get an email from me basically highlighting the top 10 lines of their budget year to date so that we are all aware of where our budget's going in salary wage, overtime and as you always see come December, you
never see me coming back asking for a quart million dollars, half million dollars. You see a lot of times in those budget line transfers, you're seeing 50,000 100,000 going out to other divisions because of the work and the
collaborations of me and those division heads and chiefs who do an outstanding job of managing their budget budgets within their departments. when you also see a 3% year-over-year budget change. We saw in the area of public
safety the demands for more staffing, whether it was policing where we had a couple highlighted crimes last year that did not match the annual number regarding violent crime, which was down 14% last
year, but it made a cause for concern from our community. They were not happy about incidents that happened in a park. They're unhappy with ebikes on sidewalks. None of us are. But it takes personnel and staff to go address
that. Not a press release, not all of us going to social media say we want to cure that. It takes staff to do enforcement. And that is we need a balance. When we do a budget in public safety, it is a balance of what are we going to do to put the staff to enforce
these things, what are we going to pay these employees so that is a fair salary and wage that they get that's competitive with other cities so that we get the draw of top talent, but also we don't want to our our taxpayers
with we're throwing the but public safety budget up 10%. That is not what we do. We try to find a balance that is fair to all. Sometimes there's no winners, but it's got to be fair to all. And that's why I've always tried to present with you in a
budget. What you don't see here this year, and it's when they when the administration puts together budget, they start working with finance and the BA, there are things that are cut so that they do not come to you with a 15% increase uh if
fully staffing. You don't see right now expansion of fire. I would like to expand one more time. Back in December, the city council subcommittee of public safety allowed me to alter the table
organization for the fire hierarchy. I told them I would come back and that would be decreasing the captain by a position. This year I hope to bring to you this summer something that actually decreases captains by two spots uh with an increase with some more firefighters
on the lower end. You don't see a high water vehicle. Uh we've had a couple members of the public social media emails to all of us that are on here. Where's the high water vehicle? It's unsafe. So I want to remind everybody in 2023 we had a high water vehicle put in
the budget through budget amendments that was taken out. I was not deemed a necessity and I was I was okay with that. We had in 2024 again the high water vehicle that OEM requested. I had two pro I had two consecutive OEM coordinators that requested this high
water vehicle. So we go to 2024 and we ask for a high water vehicle and we had a situation that happened with a murder in the city of Hoboken. so that a um a bond that had been approved by the council was able to change from getting
a high water vehicle which was seen to be the bigger need at the time again we were in agreement with it which was a police command vehicle a mobile police command vehicle uh the PD is working on that purchase uh currently they're
actually able to work with finance and see how can they get the most out of that bond they're looking at it being a a mobile command uh vehicle, a Polaris for waterfront that gets police around on a waterfront, moving equipment or
personnel or moving somebody that needs to be taken out of an area. You've seen EMS has a couple of these. We sometimes see outside agencies coming in with these. Uh once this waterfront is repaired, uh 2026 is coming. You've got World Cup. You've got uh the fireworks
back in the Hudson in 2026. you have uh the ship sailing coming in on July 3rd. There are going to be major waterfront events in 2026. So, whoever the mayor is going to be and whoever the council administration is need to be prepared
for June and July of 2026 and also being added that can be purchased with this bond is more cameras. So, I think the police department chief a do an excellent job with trying to maximize that bond that was switching from the high water vehicle. So, we also get the question, what happened to the high
water vehicle? The highwater vehicle when it was purchased in 2012 was already 25 years old. It was auctioned off in 2022 and was in such a dilapidated condition. It auctioned off for $500. It was a 35 year old vehicle. So,
uh those on the council have folded questions from the public about it. That's where the high and that's that was the quality of it that was only worth $500. You also don't see on this budget a which was on the initial want from the fire department a new fire
pumper, new fire engine. Uh so that's not on there right now. Uh possibly something we could circle back to in 2026. Remember those fire engines cost about a million dollars a piece. Uh we are still in
need of a fire headquarters andor a police headquarters. uh always willing to speak with any of the eight of you on the city council to discuss visions and the best way to get there. But this is something where we were saying there was a major need for
upgrades in our infrastructure uh for public safety in 2022 and here we are going to 2026 without it. That is why we see the redevelopment for the police department property and the hopes of building a new police headquarters and breaking ground sometime in the very
near future. It is something that has to be a priority of whoever the next mayor uh and administration is. There was a request that was given to me about organizational charts. Uh I had one business day. You will most likely get them in a package within the
one to two days. I thank all the division heads from public safety that got them to me immediately. But there was no way to create charts for 600 employees in a matter of one workday. Uh but you will have you will have all of those details sent to you. Uh I thank
all of those eight division heads. I thank all the employees of all eight public safety divisions. Uh while we've seen debate about uh safety in in Hoboken. Uh the bottom line is the city of Hoboken is a very safe community. It
is why the property values are what they are increased what they are. Uh because people know they can come here and be safe. It is why there's desire to be on our waterfront, desire to be on Washington Street, desire to be on bars and restaurants, desire to do filmings here. I have another film production
meeting tomorrow. We've done about 10 in the last couple months because Hoboken is an attraction. Hoboken is a safe community and I thank every member of the public and safety, eight divisions that all contribute that uh every day.
And now I look forward to uh I'm sure more discussion and questions and answers. Uh, thank you, director. Appreciate your presentation. Uh, Councilman Ramos, uh, you're Thank you, Councilman. Uh, I'm I'll be brief.
Councilman, you just muted yourself. I don't I don't think you intended to be that brief. Go ahead. Yeah. Try again. Yeah. Kenny wins the award for longest uh, presentation. Congratulations. No, it was very good, actually. Mike Mike my my my uh my question uh director is with
regards to the uh the two fire chiefs situation. Yep. Is is that uh budgeted for being fined uh daily? Is that in the budget or is that coming out of a different uh line item? I don't sit. I don't I'm sure you're referring to the
$100 a day fine. I don't know if that's being uh Caleb, I know if it's being paid out of administration or corporation council, but I just on the public safety end uh I have had discussions with our CFO Chris Paul. We would discuss this situation daily. It's
a it's a fluid situation that's being still uh handled in the courts, but uh we've discussed uh handling in all ways as far as um Yeah. And so so how does that impact the budget with with you? Are we looking at uh back pay potentially? Yeah, that uh they would
they would so I believe any back pay or if if that if this is something that's resolved in 2025, I believe a lot of that would come through the GIF or like other settlements any settlements of any lawsuits in any divisions. I believe that would come through either
administration or corporation council, not through the actual division. So what we set for we budget for the positions. So a police a fire chief is budgeted for right now. Uh as you've seen it come up uh we know from salary what what has
come up and what is still currently approved. So the position is budgeted for at no time would we pay we'd be be paying two chiefs. So yeah we did not discuss specific but it's just know I for all of our divisions especially police and fire that has a table organization we budget
for the table of organization by position not by name. Got it. Uh, and when is the uh the pre the mobile command center coming online? I I maybe you answered that question. It's being purchased now. Let's hope we have I know you said it's being retrofitted and things like that. No, it's being it's
being shopped for. So there's uh what they what the police department got approval for from finance and the and bond council that it could the bond could be used for mobile command sent mobile command vehicle, a Polaris and cameras. So they are shopping for that
so that they get the best of the three. Uh I think once that's purchase made you'll see something in in uh in 20 the start of 26. Okay. Thank you chief. Thank you. Thank you council. Sorry. That's okay. We know time.
Councilman Russo. Thank you. Thank you Councilman. Uh director and thanks for the the presentation. I mean you answered a lot of the questions that I had uh as you're going through it. But I I want to dig in on uh two. I'm I'm actually very surprised that the salary
and wages only went up 2% in police and fire. Uh and then there were some big percentage increases specifically in OEM and health were the two that I wanted to kind of dig in into a little bit. Um in
the health department you talked about the reduction of the salary for one of our um social workers uh due to grants. Yes, we lost the grant from it. So she the salary is still being has to be paid. Correct. Was there any
conversation about reallocating that position to for example the library? We we know we have the we know the library has a social worker as well. Um have we had any conversations with the library specifically? You know, we talk every
budget season we talk specifically about how much money the library is allocated through the state funding formula. Uh and every year year-over-year there there's this big surplus that they have. Um, have we had any conversations with them to potentially take the burden from
the taxpayer in the sense of removing it from your budget and then potentially putting it back in their budget? So, a couple things we let's go through the history of it. We go back to 2022 and actually two members on here, both uh, Councilman Ramos and Councilman
Councilwoman Jabor brought the idea in our public safety committee to have a uh, a social worker. Can we do that? It was actually done in public safety committee. Uh NORC had been the first ones. We ended up being the second ones to explore it. Uh when I brought the idea back to the mayor and then we
started to interview, we had three outstanding candidates and I said to the mayor, why don't we do two? What what's one going to do by themselves as days off? So, we ended up hiring two. We budgeted for one under uh public safety
under health and we budgeted one under uh constituent services as they worked with uh in the office of con constituent services but there was a consistent daily collaboration with the police department. So there was a public safety uh factor of this. We find that we're
able to put this one salary in through grant which it paid for the last two years and now we just learned all of a sudden two months ago it's not going to be paid this year. Uh I would not I was not involved in the conversation between our CFO and our BA office. So I do not
know uh if there was discussions about a another source of revenue or taking the social worker out of public safety. So that's I would not have that exact answer, but I just want to give you a history of why it was under Yeah. And I appreciate it. And I and I think really the question is would you as the
director of the department foresee any issues if in fact we were able to do that, right? Would there be a a time lapse? Would there be an issue getting those social workers to uh whatever events that they needed to get to for for that particular
day? And I know you've worked with with all the social workers, including the one at the library. So, I think that's really a bigger question. And then the follow-up would be to uh director Stratton. Can we actually explore potentially moving that one salaried employee to somewhere like the library
where we're saving a little bit on the city side, we're utilizing a little bit more on the the mandated allocation to the library where it kind of helps everybody a little bit. So, two two-part question there. One for you, Director Fanty, and then one for you there, uh, Director Shrine. I'll answer the first
one. Are we legally allowed to have if someone is paid out of one division, do they still fall in the escope authority of of the director of another? And that would be a legal question and I would turn to the BA as far as if there was any discussions about funding it through
another source. I think that it comes down to care custody and control. I wouldn't want to put director Franti in a position of having another arm of city government supervising if we did that move. I think that there would be an impact. I don't know what that would be, but it's certainly something we can explore. And I'll I'll take that
question back to the I think it would be a good idea at least to explore and if it comes back that it doesn't work, so be it. It doesn't work. I I just think we need to kind of explore whatever options we have out there. And then director, the last thing I have for you, Director Fanthy, uh you said the
increase for the uh security in the city was specifically because of the negotiated contract. Yes. But my question is, are all of those security officers throughout the city, are they all retired? Are we saving there with
pension and health cost? That is correct. They are all retired police officers. Okay, that's all I had. Thank you, director. Thank you, Councilman Russo. Uh I I wanted to mention uh that Councilman Cano has been
on. Uh uh Jerry, I don't know if you noted that he was in attendance, but I just wanted you to flag that. Good. You're nodding. Yes. Uh Councilman President, you're next up. Thank you for the presentation, Director Franty. I have just uh one quick
question on the I don't know we may have talked about in the public safety meetings the uh security guards even and correct me if I'm wrong they're court officers uh by title however we do see cases from
not just Hoboken it's from around the county or around correct me if I'm wrong in this do we re and again correct me if I'm wrong but do we see any type of funding that comes from the county or state to help subsidize any of this being their quote unquote court
officers. We do not there's not a penny that's coming in from uh county or state or federal to cover those court attendance and and what we're just so so they they had the titles we discussed court attendants and the a reason why we came up with a collective bargaining agreement with them and they unionized
was we were discussing what's the best way to use these court attendants as security guards and not be violation of title. That's why we we created a collective bargaining agreement that basically says that they do both. They'll either work as security guards protecting city hall or other city
properties like multi-ervice center like Damon Murray gym. Uh and and they also do courts. Okay. And one other thing, when did we bring everybody on? I can't remember back in the day. Do you remember when we brought them on or was it just consistent? 2009 was when they
started. Okay. All right. That's it. Thank you very much. Thank you. It's all you. Yep. Uh, Councilman Fischer, you're up. Thank you. And thank you for this. Uh, Director Fanny, um, can you possibly go back just to the slide? Do you have the
ability to go back to the slide that just has your budgeted numbers, the annual numbers for 2025? I just want to make sure I for the salary. Yes. Sorry. The salary and wage one. I just want to make sure the number is is what I ask can bring
that back up. I have I have it in front of me though. Yeah. You can just you or you can just tell me what the numbers were for 2024 for police and 2025 for um for police salary and wages.
So police in 2024 was 21,654,000 for 2025. 21 thou 21,991,000. So it's only an increase of $340,000 because that you have one union that has a raise kicking in on July 1st.
So that's why it's only a very small increase. That's total. What's salaries? I don't think that's just that is salary salary wage. Yeah. is is 21.1 uh million this year for police salaries. And what was it last year?
It's that was on one of the slides. There was a slide that was just added today. I don't have the hard copy in front of me. So 20 million.7 is only $400,000 less than that. 350,000. So that that's in that's encompassing the
sixmonth raise that the PBA is getting. PSOA is in contract negotiations. Uh I talked to the union president say I there's a there's a reason why there's only $350,000 increase and both unions and administration are on board for that. I don't want to discuss
negotiations publicly right now but uh $350,000 in sales be the only impact for this year. Maybe maybe I have a wrong number but the number I have is two is 2088. I
don't have 2788 for 2024. And and the reason why I was asking this is because there's uh Councilman Russo was like, "Oh, you know, I'm surprised that the number is so low, the increase year-over-year." And it's not that it's a giant number, but the number I had was closer to 5%
between um 2024 adopted and 2025 um intro. So um I just want to go back. Yeah. You know what? We could have had an adoption intro different from adoption, you know, if there was. Yeah, I don't have intro. I have the last
whatever the final. I will check with finance. Finance is the ones who gave me these numbers, the CFO. So, I'll check with him in the morning to make sure. Thanks. Thank you. That's it. Thank you so much. You councilwoman. Uh I don't see any
other council members with questions or comments. So now it is time for members of the public. Uh members of the public can ask questions of our business administrator or any of the directors. Uh I see Patricia's iPhone was up. So,
uh Pat Waiters. Pat, you're on mute. There you go. Could you hear me, guys? We can hear you. Great. Pat, go ahead. All right. And number one, why why uh Jim Doyle is out? That's why you're doing the meeting and Mr. Cohen. Uh, no.
Jim is here actually, but I chair the finance committee and this is a budget workshop. So, congratulations. You're doing a good job. Anyway, thank you Pat. Let let me get back to where I'm going with this. I want to I have a few questions for uh Director Fanty. Also,
the question you asked him about the uh security guards being hired and under title versus salary. I want to know uh like a regular parking utility officer can't um like have jurisdiction over title 39
motor vehicle laws and stuff like that. There are certain things that security officers, court officers have that's different with respect to that and also the um salaries and the court fines and fees. All of that money people paying.
Can't that help offset some of their salary? Where do all of that money go? that's coming in from the court with with the fines and all of that stuff that come in. I I noticed nobody mentioned that money and I'll be sitting in that courtroom and see some of them people that's drinking the driving
whatever be hit with some healthy fines for $5,000 and thousands of dollars. Okay, I need to explain that. Mr. Fancy, your explanation was very detailed, very informative. I like that. But it's kind of still to me, this is what's really upsetting. All nine of you guys are
council members. This happened all through the years. Y'all don't speak up and speak out then about it. The number one, our budget is definitely late and all of you guys, all of these questions should have been answered when the budget was being prepared. I'm still
feeling bad the fact that I kept telling you that meeting after meeting about the COVID money and all of those grants and all of this stuff that y'all plugging in the budget. The thing with the two social workers, I was in the meeting that night and like I'm telling you
again with those two social workers, I don't I didn't think that was even necessary. The same thing with constituency services. All of these jobs that y'all create, well, the mayor and the administration created. Where was the council people then? Y'all should have been saying that y'all shouldn't
have never allowed this. The only ones that I really see that deserve every penny and was very detailed and I still think they being underpaid and did not get a raise. Your city clerks. Your city clerks, guys. They made up the constituency
services. New directors being hired. I never in history heard a business administrator to the business administrator. Shame on all nine of y'all. everybody that's running too because it show how disingenuine you guys was cuz y'all was scared to lose votes and y'all didn't speak about this.
We wouldn't be where we at today if y'all didn't speak up and speak out. There's no way they should have been giving out money like Christmas cookies, all of them raises and creating jobs. Pay to play. Please, let's keep it real. And I'm going to keep it real. Y'all should tell these people this when y'all are
knocking on the doors talking about the next mayor. And when you made that comment, whoever the next mayor might be in 26, I hope it's me cuz this is crazy. This budget is ridiculous. And now you got those same security guards waiting. I know you can't discuss
negotiation, but we got those same security guards waiting. People being underpaid, the people that's been in our system for years. Y'all want to hire new people over their head. And poor Fanty, you got your hands full. The whole thing with the fire
department. Y'all getting fined a $100 a day. Y'all, for real. And Mr. Brown, you felt comfortable talking about, "Oh, we might even have more lawsuits coming. Whoever be the damn mayor, start rectifying stuff in house and stop making everything a court matter." We're not
surprised. Robbie was a may a lawyer. So all of the law fees and stuff, all of this litigation for the last four years, go back and revisit it and look how shameful that make us look. I'm done. I got so much more to go, but I don't want to take up everybody else's time. The law suits
every I'm going to see is one of you guys going to be genuine enough, be genuine, and just come out and call people out and then get ready to start a layoff. start laying them same people off that they brought on that should not be working in our city. Lay them
off. Thank you, Pat. Thanks for your patience for waiting for the Thank you, sir. Thank you. You was excellent tonight, Phil. I got That's very kind of you. Thanks, Pat. All right, next up. Oh, wait. Phil, I'm sorry. Phil, real quick, check on the guy that passed away to be hanging out in Foxill, please. And
let him Yes. Okay. Thanks for letting me know, Pat. I appreciate it. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Cheryl, you are next up because Cheryl could be promoted in to be a speaker. Cheryl, you're on mute. If you can unmute yourself, you should be able to
speak. Here you go. Yeah. can hear you. We can hear you, Cheryl. Go ahead. So, I actually have questions for each of the directors who presented. I'm going to go in reverse order because the simple questions uh we'll dispose
of. So, the first couple of questions is for um Director Fanti, um just two questions. When you mentioned that we lost 170K grant, did we lose it because
of Doge or Okay. Is that It was part of the That's part of the state nationwide cuts. Uh they there was stoppages of certain health and human services grants and we had a $170,000 grant that came from the federal government the last the
prior three years that was stopped this year. And then you had mentioned eight businesses that were closed due to the health thing which is now under you. Yes. Um is that like facilities as
opposed to say like ethical issues? Is it like a It was cleanliness. There was seven restaurants and bars that were closed. Most of the problems were refrigeration where it was their refrigerators were
not cold enough for for food uh food preparation uh or insect or rodent situations that were not being controlled by the proprietors of the businesses and that that sort of thing that's really only those like health
code type violations not like other things if a business was ripping off the public that would No, that would Yeah, that would fall under a different comment. Okay, that's all I had for director. Thank you. Um I guess director Gonzalez
um Director Gonzalez, you talked about how I guess because of using the water utility monies. Some of our high priority things that we wanted to do I guess are put on the back burner. Can
you can you share what some of those things that we might not be able to do are? Uh so we do have a capital program um and we have uh you know issued debt for the capital needs through the year 2025
already and prior uh bond ordinances as authorized by the council. Um what I was referring to is that with this transfer to the general fund, we will not have sufficient funds for additional borrowing capacity uh in you know in future years. However, we are also
currently under uh undergoing a um rate study as our water rates um have been ordained through 2025. So, you know, there is the the potential um for additional funding for capital improvements in the future. However, that has not been determined
yet and certainly would have to come back to the council. Okay. And your grass, your presentation included something. It included 50K for the shade tree. The only reason I'm asking about this because I don't really see anything
for other volunteer boards. Can you just tell me what that's attributable? Is that transcription or what is that 50k for? No, it's uh so it's actually uh pays for the board secretary. Um that's the very small portion of the uh of the
budget as well as a budget for planting and maintenance of street trees. Okay. And um and that is that okay that's fine. Um no other questions. I did want to just say considering we seem so budget constrained is maybe now is not a
time to like redo our parks again. Like maybe there's some cutting there. I mean like Church Square Park. So we're moving the swings from here to there. You know it and we had consultants in and you know money doesn't grow on trees. So
maybe looking I mean to me Church Park looked just fine but we're going to spend a boatload of money. Maybe it's grant funded. I don't know. Maybe we're losing it. But I would just say personally, just my personal opinion, that vanity things maybe in a
tight budget year aren't, and I'm not saying that is, that's just my word, like Maritime Park, maybe that can wait until we get on more even footage. Um, but with that said, that's all I have for whatever the new name of this
department is, climate change something. Um, that's also Thank you, director. Um, then the last thing I have are several questions for Director Brown. Um, and most of this, actually, all of this is the
housing division. Um, I just want to say that I'm I just everybody before I say anything, I want everybody to know that I think Director Brown is terrific because it's not going to sound like that in a minute. Um, and I realize
that, and I don't mean to be harsh, but I always worry about rent control. And last year's budget, there was some talk about code enforcement for specifically rent
control, and that disappeared into the black hole of housing code enforcement is what it sounds like. So the the um there were two people that are in that division now seem to be in the
housing division but they're really not rent control is uh Oscar and I actually I don't know if I can say names but you the what happened to the rent control code enforcement like we lost that entirely looks like we now
have two clerks who do not do any code enforcement they do administrative park. We have building inspectors, which I'm not saying isn't something we need. I'm not really questioning that. But oh boy, we really, really needed that code enforcement. We have Airbnb from one end
of town to the other that is in breach of the rent control laws and we have nobody overseeing that. So, why did that happen? No answer. No. Uh, Director Brown's going to answer your question. Yeah, I was just making sure that you're that I
that I had the full gist of your question and Well, I have others, but I just figured I'd stop for this one. All right, we'll go one by one. And uh thank you for the kind words, Charlotte. I appreciate it. M Miss Fal, I appreciate it. Um so, in terms of code enforcement,
we brought on two inspectors um over the last year. One is a chief housing inspector. The other one's zoning and housing in is the zoning and housing inspector trainee who is um going to hopefully move up into the
zoning housing inspector role um full stop after he takes the necessary courses. Um that's that you know so in terms of inspection, in terms of enforcement, they are um their their
roles meld into the rent control um realm as well. The in terms of Airbnb enforcement, I mean that's that's a code issue. I mean that's you know we can hire as many inspectors as we want in terms of enforcing Airbnb. We have to
have the necessary legislation to do so. Um so once we're able to tackle that uh then we can uh we can we can move on that um that specific issue. Okay, that felt a little sly of hand because if a
roof leaks that's not rent control. If a tenant doesn't have heat that's really like a health and human services building code violation. But if a tenant is being harassed and land and a land or a landlord is saying, for example, you
have to sign this lease that says you're giving up all your rights to your rent control protections. And believe it or not, this is actually happening in Hoboken, but we don't really have the enforcement officer to reach out to that
property owner saying, "No, no, no. rent control tenants actually have tenants rights and that's what I thought we were getting but we didn't. Um but nonetheless um yeah I I don't mean to cut you off on the question but in terms of code enforcement the where the the
org chart that I showed before those are civil service titles right so their civil service titles are chief housing inspector and zoning and housing inspector they still have the capacity to go into rent control issues or issues
that tenants may have that require that extra followup as you stated. So there's nothing I I I don't think that the that the two are mutually exclusive. Okay. All right. So we might actually be able to direct people to code enforcement. Is
that what I'm hearing? Thousand%. Okay. Terrific. Um now the other thing this is something that I'm I was confused and then as I saw the chart now I'm concerned. So hear me through. We have in this department a
head of housing or director of housing. And what I saw in your chart which really concerns me is now it says slash rent regulation officer and then underneath that I'm seeing rent regulation
officer which we have a rent regulation officer and it's not the head of housing. So I don't really know what's going on. Um, and it's concerning for me in particular because at the last rent board meeting
there was seemingly some indication that somebody coming in front of the board had gotten different information than what the rent regul from the rent regulation officer which
was different than the information provided to the by the rent regulation officer. So now I'm thinking that what we have are two rent regulation officers which is not
part like the ordinance very clearly only has one. So can you explain what's going on now? Because I'm really really concerned. We have had through the years some administrative issues and now are we
setting ourselves up for another problem. Can you expand on what's going on? Sure. So we um Yes. So we have a rent regulation officer and we have so we have essentially two rent regulation officers uh by civil service code by
civil service title and by job function. Um the head of housing division also serves as a rent regulation officer. Um broadly speaking, this is meant to reduce the time lag when there are 100
or 200 legal rent calculations coming in and we have one rent regulation officer who's processing all of these uh all of this paperwork that leads to delays in getting back to people. So from a so so from a practicality from a practical
standpoint it makes sense to have two um someone gets sick someone has a family emergency the same could happen with it it it it's not not particular to the rent regulation officer you know we've thought about like in there's there's
towns that have multiple zoning officers for example um and in terms and there's nothing in the code that prohibits such the the code does not say that the municipal ality is required to have one regulation officer. Um so we it it's not
a code violation or it's not a code issue to have two. Um in terms of the specific in in terms of uh the case that you're referring to um at the board, I don't know enough about the specifics to um answer your question on that. um I'd
have to get some more details to understand what happened or to to get any miscommunication, but generally speaking and when um the head of housing took on the um you know the the ancillary duties of a rent regulation
officer. One of the first things that we've that we've talked about, one of the main things that we've talked about is just making sure that we're consistent on issues and making sure that we're communicating as a group and making sure that we're seeing eye to eye in terms of how things are um how things
are calculated, how things are processed. So that, you know, that communication is is a big part of how the office functions. Um and so and that's that's a that's a key to making sure that everything runs smoothly.
Okay, I'm just that's that's I mean I guess that's the answer. What I just want to say is the rent control ordinance while it doesn't say no, you can't have more than one, it is singular from the first page
of the ordinance to the very end. And I'm really concerned. I mean, I was first put on that rent board in 2009. I was recently reappointed after an absence. And it seems like we're getting
really close to fixing an issue that happened because of lack of coordination or things going on in the office that previous administrations or city council members weren't aware of. And I just I see it coming down the pike. It's
it's very I can't express how concerning this is. I also do want to say that our existing regulation officer before the head of housing sort of became one too is very experienced and has been there for many years and has been working well as far as I can tell. I'm
newly reappointed with the rent board. No comment on the head of housing, but she has duties beyond rent control. And I might suggest to the city council that there there may be a better way. I mean
certainly like Steven students, interns, whatever can be taught to do rent calculations. So, there's something in here that feels really wrong just because I don't know when this happened, but it seemed very quickly we ended up
in a situation where there is some disagreement in the rent control office or just people not communicating appropriately. I'm not sure what it is. And the person with the depth of experience and knowledge is subordinate.
So, it's I I know I'm speechifying, but I am so concerned because I've seen so many things go wrong. And I I would just ask somebody on the council to look into what this is, get with Director Brown, find out so that we
don't have people being able to hang up the phone and call and get somebody else giving them a more favorable whether it's pro- landlord or pro tenant answer. It's very, very concerning right now. But that's all I have to say. Thank you
very much everybody. Good night, Spallic. Thank you for your service back on the rent leveling board and you're also believe the chair of it now. So, uh, thanks for your leadership on that. Yeah, that's correct. I I was drafted. So, congratulations and good luck. Uh, I
believe that is the last of the folks. So, I will uh I want to thank all the directors for staying with us. I want to thank the business administrator and assistant business administrators uh for being with us tonight. Uh we've uh we are going to have a public budget hearing on our next council meeting on
June 16th. So members of the public will be able to have that. We'll have in addition to these two workshops. Uh and we can continue that uh the process of formulating a budget. Then uh I was just going to say one thing,
council president, that I believe the powerpoints are going to be sent out to the council. Uh, director Stratton, is that right? All of them, right? Director, all of them. Yeah. So, I just want to confirm that. And then there's a number of questions that have been
presented. Uh, and I believe the council's looking to get answers to those questions as well, director. Yes, please. Yep. Then we'll respond. Yeah. Council President, you've got your hand up. Thank you. I just wanted to you said at
our next meeting on the 16th. Our next meeting is the fourth. So the budget hearing is two two meetings from now. Correct. Okay. Just I just didn't want members of the public who are interested to
spectate at the next meeting. Okay. All right. With that, I think I'll take a motion to adjurnn. Motion. Is there a second? All in favor? All in favor? I everybody. Good evening,
everyone. Let's go next. Thank you. Phil, can you get Kim Doyle? Jim, no. I don't want to. Yeah. Uh, did you guys