##VIDEO ID:2l2-w2cklvk## uh good evening Holliston and uh welcome to very special uh today before Thanksgiving uh meeting of the hollon school committee we're all ecstatic to be here um we'll get right into things um uh we'll first um we'll call the Mee to order um and uh we'll uh I'll take entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda um the only thing I'm actually going to I do we have the the minutes in our drive we do yeah they got in there a okay has anyone does anyone want to delay them all right so I I'll we'll first a motion to amend to remove the minutes and we'll just approve the warrants uh mooved by Dawn second by Sarah okay all those in favor okay now I'll take a motion to approve the the consent agenda and the warrants Mo by Dawn second all in favor thank you all right so just for those in the audience and on Zoom um what we're going to do tonight is we have a presentation from the principles they will give that presentation and anything else from the administration that they have to discuss about um their thoughts and then we will get to public comments before the uh before the committee begins you know our discussions and and deliberations does that work um for those on Zoom um when we get to public commented you can just raise your hand um because we do have a fair a fairly large number of people uh for public comments I am going to hold it to a strict 3 minutes it's supposed to be two so it's 50% more um but but please do keep your your your comments um within 3 minutes there will be ample other opportunities before this is all said and done to uh um let us know your thought and uh with that I will we'll turn it over to our principls and other administrators thank you thanks for coming tonight and they're going to do a a brief presentation and as do as Mr Alfred had said they will then take questions um about the presentation so first off we want to um kind of get where how we got here this week um we came up um Jamie and I uh initial concerned with the support of um Karen and David um our students riding the buses um uh specifically placentino students with middle school and Miller students with high school uh and that's where we started uh last meeting um and then from there um there was conversation regarding uh combining the elementary schools uh and that's where we're going to go we first wanted to make sure that we acknowledge the hard work the committee did to put forth uh the work that they did uh this in no way is trying to undermine any of the work uh that was done um this is um you know uh us trying to come up with a different solution uh that we um feel is uh in the best interest of our students so what our recommendations are are PL Tino and Miller ENT elementary schools have the same start and aligned start and end times um our recommendation is the elementary schools are assigned the earlier start time um secondary schools continue to have the aligned start and end times and secondary schools assigned the later start time next slide our guiding priorities um are looking at the de elal needs of all of our students the implications for high school after school activities sleep studies for elementary and secondary students and streamline the busing operations so when we think about combining um K toi we wanted to look at the benefits of students of staff and for families so when we think of the benefits for students of being K to 5 we look at that we could create a great greater sense of community for our students there could be more opportunities for GR uh crossgrade activities um more predictable routines a kindergartener could have a consistent schedule for six years um prior to moving on to middle school and we know that all students especially our younger students thrive on structure especially those who um are neurodiverse and or have anxiety um and then finally um those collaborative activities we could have Cross School events group projects Teamworks Etc next slide please we thank you so we we also want to think about how we could really Empower our Miller students to be Role Models I think the Miller staff does a really nice job with their student leadership team as fifth graders and I think we think this is another opportunity for them to um be able to be peer mentors and leaders to the placentin no peers um and we could even look at some whole whole complex initiatives like buddy buddy reading or peer tutoring to Foster those leadership skills when we think of benefits to staff something that we've really been a stumbling block for us is looking at professional development and how we have such like professional development needs K to five and often our differing schedules um really interfere with that so we could have coordinated training opportunities we now would have the same time time for curriculum meetings after school and staff meetings so that could um help for that this would be an opportunity that you know some teachers could do peer observations across grade levels especially in that transition from second to third grade and um this is an opportunity just to have more grade level and vertical alignment with curriculum and finally some of the benefits that we felt that are K through five families so these would be families with students with more than one student within this grade level um it would be easier to manage Transportation those extracurricular activities after school um we find at placentino we have many students dismissed early um when the Miller student is dismissed because they're driving their Miller student to an activity and they won't be back in time to get their placentino students so we're hoping that would decrease that as well um you know at home it would synchronize some of that consistent meal and sleep schedules and streamline that ever so important um uh can you go to the next slide sorry that morning routine hopefully reducing some of the chaos and stress next slide please there were some perceived challenges um that we wouldn't be able to combine the school the two schools will the UA and the lunch schedule be possible um with the additional 15 minutes it does allow us to um keep our current model 50-minute uh UA um and um we are the cafeteria is big enough whether we have the whole like Miller all go like we're doing this year and we did last year all of Miller goes for the first hour and a half and then for the last hour and 15 uh the placentino students do can we change that absolutely but we know we can get the students through uh the lunch uh at both buildings and then finally it was uh wondering how would arrival and dismissal work you know I think we mentioned last time that from covid we were forced to learn how to do things with more efficiently and that helped us lean on technology a bit to help with our arrival and dismissal and then finally I mentioned decreasing enrollment um do you mind clicking on that hyperlink so um if you can see this is our enrollment for FY 2017 in our predicted enrollment for next year which is FY 26 and it's a decrease of enrollment of 202 students about so um over the past 9 to 10 years we've had a significant decrease in enrollment which um means less cars and less bodies to be able to move through our complex so how would this look um uh no next slide there we go next slide uh the buses would drop off in the morning um in the uh Center Loop uh between the two schools uh if needed be we could drop off in the placentino loop as well uh but we do think that we would be able to get all of the drop off just based on the time in of when the buses come through all through the center Loop the cars uh we would uh start uh a line um they right now the preschool does it they go between the two schools uh and during Co we needed to use that as a line too and we would have uh parents access through lynen Street uh and come through that way um lining up uh the cars we would not have parents on Woodland Street uh we would strictly use Woodland Street um for entrance to the facility for buses and staff and we would use Woodland Street making a right-hand turn for cars that are are exiting um this is kind of a a oh next slide please sorry there we go there we go so as you can see the yellow are the buses uh and they would either use the Center Loop or The placentino Loop uh again we do think that we could just use the Center Loop and you can see how the cars are coming between the buildings and they would exit um through the Woodland Street and we would have the students drop off there if you go to the next slide there's uh an option b option b is um having if you look it we'd first let the the the all the buses uh drop off but we would then uh potentially access the front of the placentino school as a drop off so making a leftand turn there where the the kindergarten entrance is and having them go all the way around to the stop sign and students could get out on the curb and go to their respective locations again exiting onto Woodland Street and making a rightand turn there and these aren't in any particular order they're just two options that we think are doable and you know we'd have to look at Logistics to see which one would work next slide please um for dismissal both Loops would be used for buses lined up by bus number um the placentino kindergarteners would uh go out first they actually get out of school earlier uh than the rest of the school so we would get the placentino kindergarteners on the buses and then we would dismiss our grades one and two and three and five uh students start to get into a routine knowing where their bus is if the bus is numbered and in the same spot and if we are the first run all of those buses should be there so students and grown-ups being outside we can get all of um the students on on the buses car pickup we would not again we would cue the cars through lynen street but we would not allow the parents on until all the buses had exited uh and hopefully by that time you know we will have the Woodland Street Bridge open and the buses can go in either direction are um we are still even if the lyen street or the uh Woodland bridge is out we still want parents to exit to the right uh so that we can uh keep things moving safely if you look at the next slide you can see in yellow all of the buses lined up we get the kids on the buses they exit and then we would have the parents like they would in the morning um we would uh electronically um we type the parents name in we have kids lined up ready to go outside we line them up they get in their parents' car if we can go to the next slide if need be we could also access the um Center loop after the buses left if we feel like we need to get more flow moving in in a different manner uh but either way I think we'd have to um see how that's going to how that's going to go but we do think both of those options would work um I was able to speak with uh Chief Cassidy on Friday our our Emergency Management director for the district uh and he has approved both our arrival and dismissal options so what does the research say about star times um we've talked a lot about our older kids kids needing um more of a delay have a delayed sleep phase the research also says that our younger students have um an earlier um circadian rhythm so what does that mean so in earlier start time for our younger students um research says that it results in improved learning they have sustained attention it also allows for more outdoor time after school um we see this with our little ones now if you walked into a classroom around three they're like you know having a little a bit trouble um sustaining their attention compared to first thing in the morning um or the opposite our a later start time for our adolescence um results in enhanced academic performance improved mental health reduced health risks and there was studies about increased safety um for student drivers that they're more alert um so we also tide in our secondary recommendations to this presentation um we are hoping that you'll consider the start and end times um they're consistent with the sleep studies and it does align the end of the day with our Tri Valley Times to allow for after school activities particularly Athletics um and it would keep the middle and high school students where they are currently and that is riding with each other at these times next slide please that's fine so what you can see here is these are the uh star times for the tri valley League uh for the 25 26 school year um in order for us to be able to um ensure that our freshman teams are JV teams and our varsity teams can all play we really need to be within those same time frames um as you can see there the latest end times um are going to be DOA Sherborn and Medfield at 3:10 um once we get beyond that time then we really struggle to make sure that we have access to uh for our teams to be able to uh travel and play um and then you have to start talking about uh whether or not you're going to have a you know a freshman team have access to to um games and and a JB team have access to games uh that's okay um um you know additionally within that is that we have to think about our after school clubs and activities um those who have jobs uh play rehearsals musical rehearsals and all of those um so really to be um aligned Within These Times is is incredibly uh you know important for the high school and just piggy backing what Karen said about you know our kids right now at Works having the uh middle school and high school together on the buses it's something that that the kids are used to um that we know is um something that's going well and and so don't see a need to to change that um but as I said it's going to be really important for us in order to uh when we talk about the social emotional Wellness of our teens you know a lot of them you know they hold on to that time really tightly after school and and what they're involved in and um I wouldn't want to see any of uh our students lose access uh to that um and so to stay you know as you know ideally you know as close to what we have as we can um but really making sure that we're within times that are consistent with the with the tri valy public com I guess can we get into some some do you have a proposed schedule because you're saying this aligns us with the tri valley but we don't have any thing to look at if it aligns us with the tri valy is it your position that this high school should get out no later than 310 no that's what I was saying is that like three start so does that mean an 822 start time is that what you're advocating for the I don't know what the I'm I'm just giving the the end time so is that correct that it's an 822 start time and a 310 end time to align with the tri valy somewhere in the nature of that I'm saying that 810 is like the like the I'm saying 310 is like the the later I think they the I want the specifics of what time we would start because that impacts the start time perfect that's I would start throwing out times so I mean we have to frame this a little bit and then we can get to public comment but I just want to kind of know what the what the is it possible to make that bigger yeah well then you can't see the so put this you go down 100% down the screen so the I just want to explain to it's way it's structured so you first have it um I built this model so what it the the the top section where it says assumptions um we can pick the start of the again this is built around the elementary going first um so the Elementary start time uh a certain amount of time before the start of the elementary dat to try to arrive based around breakfast um a runtime between the runs and then uh times between the high school and middle school um at the end of the day so that's you know again these are all variables that will adjust the time below so this way Susan can just go to the those times there and I I'll adjust them as you see that um what we did is we put together the model based around a 7:30 start of the elementary day um and let the math feed itself there so so he can change it if you want to show different time but um so do you want to walk through um you know again the the the plan would be to Target for Miller and plantes arrive at 7:15 based on this plan um you know with the start of the school day of 7:30 with a length of the day of 638 6 hours and 38 minutes at Miller and 6 hours and 35 minutes at placentino the end of the day would be 208 and 205 for Miller and placentino um with a bust toart time of two 23 123 213 I hit it right first time 2113 um you know again knowing that it's going to take some time for the children to get on the bus um then running this through a a 40-minute basic run time um well go to the high school ads so with the high school and Adam starting at 8:15 and 810 so we drop off the high school first because they have the longer day and to try to again get them out earlier just because of Athletics or get them out a more consistent time that would feed Adams at 8:15 high school at 810 um 638 and 648 for their St times leading to 253 and 258 um this only allows for a 40-minute run time in the afternoons um we're going a little longer than that right now so again we're hoping to be able to tighten certain things up um with stops but right now the these are the times that we would um recommend moving forward with but I believe when I looked at it today Keith that there's only a 35 minute time between the high school and the placentino and granted their late to plenum but this is actually 5 minutes more yep and with the hope that depending on what time we started and with the Woodland yep I mean the hope the hope is that we can make this time so so this is this is 40 minute run time this is a 40 minute afternoon run time okay what's a 55 minute 55 because of traffic and obviously picking up is longer with kids to get them onto the bus than getting them off but to do that you're dropping kids off 15 minutes earlier we do that after right now the kids are dropped off at 710 they start coming at 710 I've got probably eight out of the 12 buses there by 710 uh and they're leaving me by 7:15 now that's that's with middle school when as I said last week that there really four times we're talking about right there really four important well I guess now five but with the with the Bus drop off but the most but there's the first bus pickup and then there's the last bus drop off in the afternoon too so under this proposal when would the first pickup be that's over there um fair Fairly similar to where we are now okay I mean we're talking about them getting there possibly 5 minutes later so it could be five the could be 5 minutes later but obviously these buses are going to be more full um i' i' like say I I was I took all the kids this weekend and and squeezed them all into the 11 buses we have at placentino just to get the routs kind of started before being able to build it now gr I have 111 kids on one bus Which but it tells me before everybody gets all upset that tells me that I need two buses to do that run so I was able to build it that way um and I'm I have five buses that are Beyond capacity so again I would need at least five more than the 11 and I would guess probably six just to make it work more efficiently so other piece we talking about so how many buses are we talking about I think it's 17 okay 17 at the elementary would be my my recommendation and 15 at the high school middle school which is where we are now since it's the same cohort that we've had for a while and the other piece with the afternoon is the with the afternoon times with the middle and high school getting out before placentino now that was delaying the buses even longer placentino and those are our slowest kids get on the buses too they need more support but that made them even later getting home versus if it's a few minutes late getting to middle of high school those kids can go on the buses a lot quicker and get out of the campus a lot quicker so so Dr as you me your team built this recommendation how did you think about the commitments that the committee made to the community when we went through the override process and how that factored in to this recommendation yeah I'll let Keith speak because he's the one to propos what the bus schedule might look like next year as far as cost you know again we just wanted to build a model that we can start with that was similar to where we are now um if the if the committee if it's in the committee's interest to move it by a certain number of minutes that would you know if you move the certain the first one by a certain number of minutes move the last one by that same number of minutes again we're going to try as we build the roots um to create efficiencies um with regards to the number of stops we have and and the length of the routs um to hopefully cut down the T the travel time in the morning which would then help us move that even further um you know we don't have to pick times now um we have to pick a model now to build from and and you know so again the the specific times we're going to put together what what we want it to be if you set a hard and fast that the first school has to start at 7:35 or 740 we can build it that way but again we we just picked a time at this point where we are now and where there's a a comfort level and something to build from I understood but like if we and we did during during the over I'd say that we were going to start uh the first start time would be later than 7:30 which it currently is now and now we're doubling up on the number of early number of young kids at least in the recommendation that go at that time if we were to move this back 15 minutes you get to a high school end time of around 3:15 which would be the latest in the tri valley try 15 minutes if if you move everything back 15 minutes you'd go from a 258 to 330 to 313 yeah which would make us the latest are we distinguishable from Medway and over Sherburn that have 310 end times where they have their their facilities in terms of they might have two turf fields or many more Fields I in terms of practice schules you know that Miss I really don't know the instru iway doway does I don't have what mway has so um but may I ask a question on I think it's slide [Music] um 13 oh no dismissal so slide very similar um uh 15 in terms of roots y um can you fit 17 buses in what you've sketched out do we know how many buses can be fit in that Loop yeah definitely how how many do we fit now in that right now we have 12 in the Miller loop I can probably physically get 15 to 16 buses in that Loop um that's why we put the picture that shows both um Miller and placentino Loops uh for them loading at the end of the day plus to put them in number and where the kids go it kind of spreads them out and uh allows the kids to get to those buses that everybody's not in the same location you're actually spreading it out a little bit we would use both Loops for dismissal and I think the the leadership team is trying to address many factors the sleep studies and how that affects students um less disruptions to students by keeping the high school and middle school together also trying to address the after school extracurricular and sports and not get them out too late um breakfast is is now part of our day and also this will give an opportunity for the elementary kids to get there early enough to get their breakfast so I mean there's so many different pieces to this and also keep within a model of two bus runs and trying to avoid additional costs that weren't um communicated I I mean if we were if we were able to get everybody there at 7:15 for buses I mean it may be the opinion and I don't know this we haven't had this discussion that maybe 10 minutes is enough for busing as opposed to 15 I mean there's there's pieces of it that the destiny recommendation is allowing for 15 minutes but it doesn't mean that we have to allocate 15 minutes towards it so I mean there's there's ways of tweaking this down the the the model was built with just showing an example of what it would be um you know Frank's heard this enough for me to choke a horse but it's about structure for us it's it's you know which two schools are going together and which one's going first and which one's going second I had that was the first part of um my question on that slide you want to go back to the slid if we have can I ask you folks to speak up oh sure absolutely wege that be there's plenty of room around here if you want to sneak around um no just please speak up we're good in terms of dismissal our our staff locked in until the 15 minutes it takes for the kids to load on those buses and they'd be able to exit Okay during that time the buses are not blocking the exit to fit 17 in there you don't block and then my other question is it would look like we would have at least 300 perhaps as many as 350 kids that don't take the bus now obviously some will go to extended day and those are based on your numbers of projecting 1,114 in elementary next year although this year would be [Music] 1,155 so if there's 814 on the bus um and 1,114 total you have at least 300 kids that don't take the best some go to ex a day summer Walkers is it fair to say there's at least 150 to 200 getting picked up right now I currently on a Max day is about 40 cars and could have siblings I think we and placentino might have 40 cars I think we're going to duplicate siblings in some of those cars so I think you're looking at like 70 cars possibly maybe 60 between 60 and 80 80 being the max based on what we have right now okay and those cars will come in through Lon sneak behind Adams through the uh by the preschool drop off and they're just are they going to wait there until the buses they will wait there till the buses leave so right now they do that anyways so right so right now we have all our buses all our cars kind of sne sneak in and they we kind of snake them through Miller and we stage them and they wait until all our buses go we don't start car um we don't start loading cars till all the buses are gone so it' be a similar piece so you fit 70 cars there yes yeah so where um how we do it now would block cars but we're looking at a totally different model um for the parents coming in so that it doesn't block anybody who would need to exit now she's asking if there'd be enough space for the cars to fit yes it's actually something we learn from as far as the middle school as far as the dismiss the middle school as far as our ability to load roughly around 100 cars in for dismissal at the middle school during Co but a little different cuz we have kids in five mys absolutely families that to match up okay I'm trying to think Jamie what was do you remember what your highest um cars 135 was it one time 125 I think oh oh I don't remember no one was riding the bus it was incredibly significant we have the staff to organize like anywhere from 70 to 150 kids on the sidewalk yeah so what we now is we'll double our staff that we use now so we'll have staff both from we'll be able to use staff from both Miller and placentino will you have everyone come to the cafeteria and to enter you mean or to exit for exit I guess where do you where do you put all the kids oh for carpet up you mean yes for cafeteria okay so what we do is we have a system where um it's it's all electronic now we have a person who writes down their names and then we stage them in the cafeteria in sets of 10 so we're able to like just move them out as the cars come up we get the kids out our staff is incredible walk down the hallway to they wouldn't walk down the hallway they would walk out of the cafeteria right to the C okay so they're going to okay Soo door um the ca if if we use the placentino loop in this one they do you see where they' walk out the cafeteria they walk now from buses from there they would just walk up okay and then in the other model um they exit right out the cafeteria door if you go to option b yeah okay thank you they would just exit the same way they are now all right so at this time we'll go to public comment on on this and then we'll get back to discussion debate deliberation you have plenty of of time for for questions no no it's okay but if you want to go sit in the audience that's fine too we'll limit you to 3 minutes and I'll write your name down okay okay so um we'll get to them at the end so so autumn how you doing and again this we're going Tock want just come up to this microphone right here and do you want us to stay here if you want us to go over here you're good you're good um who who's okay who's going to keep Tim I think okay so we we are just given that we have a lot of people probably about 10 people we're going to stick to 3 minutes um do you want a warning when you have like 30 seconds or you want me to just tell you 3 minutes um you can I'll take a warning okay so 30 seconds I'll kind of put up a hand yeah okay um hi I'm Autumn Smith I'm a junior at hollison high school and I'm also the class president of the junior class and I'm speaking on behalf of a group of students at the high school um we're talking about the shift in start times for the or the end times I should say for the high school um and we're really against people against the later time that had been suggested I saw on the thing around 3:43 we really do not want that um the 310 time also I mean with the extra time added to our schedule that I know that's going to be added I know it's difficult to keep with our uh 242 time but we'd prefer that it we can get out as early as we can just because um there's a couple key points we all the high schoolers have a lot of responsibilities after school um starting with sports and then work um I know a lot of people their work times start at like 3:30 they have to be there and if the if we're getting out at 343 a lot of uh students have to quit their after school jobs or even 310 I know people who have to be there at 310 and already now with the traffic and the parking lot they're not able to make it um so the starting times and a lot of people need jobs because uh personally like me like I pay for my own gas and just as you're growing up you become independent and you need to spend a lot more things that your parents stop paying for all the love um mov on to sports games and practices personally for me um I'm a member of the varsity volleyball team and our practice ends at 5:30 and it starts at 3:30 and just doe with at the end of practice I have to take down Nets and just talking and driving I end up getting home at 600 and at that time I already need to I haven't done any of my homework because beforehand from that 2:42 to the 3:30 time I was getting ready for practice and finishing up with other teachers I need to talk to and setting up and by the time I get home I need to shower eat and still do homework I take all I take APS all honors and I just have a huge homework load I finally all the time I'm ending my school work like around 1130 like 12 and then that's even just without um having any time to myself to decompress and I feel like by the time I'm going to bed I feel stressed and I'm not getting everything that I need to um also with the late bus and clubs I know people that are getting home at 4:45 with the late bus and I have multiple friends one specifically that has to has to walk .9 miles from her late bus and if we move it back to the 343 time the bus will probably be getting there at 5:45 and she'll be have walk to walk in the dark um overall I'm just saying that uh us high school students we have a lot to do and responsibilities as we are the older kids and pushing back our times we already feel like we don't have enough time to get stuff done so thanam thank you all right Jess Jess hello I just wanted to um thank the school committee for giving Dr Sania and Mr Kim an opportunity to present an an alternative to the recommendations that were presented by the school start time subcommittee I've been closely following the meetings over the last month and I was extremely disappointed with the final recommendation as a mother of a rising third grader and two Rising kindergarteners I have major concerns about their safety and emotional well-being if these recommendations were to take effect for all the same reasons Dr slany outlined at your last meeting I also want to mention some other feedback I've heard from parents within the community that supports a placentino Miller pairing in addition to the safety of our students a bantino Miller pairing would give families consistency in their schedules this particular age group cannot be left home alone and the disparity in the start and end times proves challenging for families especially for working parents additionally pairing placentino with Miller and Adams with the high school will keep our children on consistent schedules the recommendations from the subcommittee requires our children to adjust their circadian rhythms every 3 years with placentino and Adams sharing a similar start time and Miller in the high school on a similar schedule I believe keeping our children on a consistent schedule will not just benefit them and their families but will also keep their academic performance High which benefits the entire Community lastly I want to thank Dr slany and Mr Kim for putting together uh the presentation today your concerns echoed mine and many other parents within the within the community and I'm very appreciative that you are working hard to find a safer solution for our children thank you Michelle I'm back here I again Michelle Hastings um I just well thank you thank you all truly thank you um after watching the school committee meeting from November 14th and from listening you not no I'll take that part back after watching the school committee meeting from November 14th I was honestly at a loss for words um it was frustrating and disheartening to be asked to make what felt like an impossible decision one that none of us felt truly comfortable with and only to find out later we didn't have all the necessary information when Dr sany and Mr Kim spoke it felt like everyone finally understood what we had been dealing with none of the options we were given for good options we were told that starting Miller in placentino at the same time wasn't possible for various reasons looking back I believe excluding the principles from the committee may have been a mistake their input would have provided value insight and could have helped us better navigate these challenges I truly believe that aligning the start times for these two schools makes the most sense and would be in the best interest of students staff and families the committee worked hard with the information we had but none of the combinations felt right whether it was grouping placentino with Rams or the high school or Miller with the high school or Rams every option seemed to create new challenges and yet we were tasked with making a recommendation while trying to prioritize later start times for our oldest students um I'm grateful that aligning Miller and placentino is now being considered however I can't feel help but feel frustrated knowing how much time and effort and dedicate that we I'm sorry effort we dedicated to the process um only to have new information come to light after the committee was disbanded if we had known earlier that this was an option we could have made a more thoughtful and informed decision please don't mistake my frustration I truly appreciate the possibility of aligning placentino Miller St times is now on the table um I understand I truly understand how complex these decisions are but I believe it's critical to reflect on the process so we can improve it moving forward decisions like these deserve as much input collaboration and information as possible to ensure we are truly serving the best interest of our students staff and families I'm here on behalf of teachers and parents who participated in this committee and for anyone in the future who volunteers their time to better our schools this was a very frustrating experience I lost a lot of sleep B on this committee I mean and I I know that people in the community were frustrated with how what we presented and I'm so grateful that this is a possibility like truly like this is what is I feel like is right it's what should happen but I I just I cannot express my frustration enough but I'm going to get up and leave and say thank you and I hopefully won't be back to a school committee [Music] meeting thank you thank you Michelle before before we do go on though because that is something that I've heard and I can certainly appreciate and understand the the the frustration um I was just wondering if uh Mr Kim Dr s wanted to sort of speak to it a little bit because I think there's this perception that there this was always sort of an option it was sort of being hidden and waiting to sort of set the the committee up or something like that I just I don't think that okay person I'm I'm not saying that wasn't what I meant to say there that this was a hidden thing and like I hope didn't come out as that that is not what I meant to say at all I just I'm sorry I know I'm going over on time but that's what my intention I think it was more that there was work being done but for 5 years plus it would had been not an option right and as things sort of were being looked at as things had changed it became more potential but there were still Hoops that needed to be walked through and just the timing didn't line up appropri properly to bring it to the to the advisory committee is that sort of a fair statement and the last thing we wanted to do is put out sort of false hope about something being possible that had been not possible and now maybe was possible to only say nope actually never mind not possible so can I just and so we started talking the principles and I and Dr Jordan behind the scenes they started thinking if that's going to be an option that comes forward we have to see if there's any other better Solutions on the table and then they realize that that 15 extra minutes now also frees up their schedule I mean that's a big part of it too so it's the logistics the less lowered enrollment but that 15 minutes also allows us to share staff differently which we couldn't do before so it was like the perfect storm coming together in a better way um that we do believe that this is the most viable op I would I would also add from the committee that um that was heard uh within the group of interest of being able to try to do that um it wasn't it wasn't a possibility as far as our ability to do that but that great interest things that are our ability to kind of move things as our conversation with the principles looking actual Logistics um brought that interest to the principles to figure out if there was some possible way um to make that possible as as um as Mr Alfred said we wouldn't want to you know bring that to the committee to then take it out to then have it you know not even be a reality um so we were just trying to operate within our within reality as much as we could being on the committee as well I mean we that came up multiple times we we talked about doing elementaries first before we voted yeah well we vot somebody else we we talked about it it was I think the one mistake we made uh as a committee is we should have brought more people into the conversation than we did um there were folks on the committee that said you know second that got blured out that's not possible cfum can't fit everyone we don't have support etc etc so the nose came very quickly about the caution of this but I think what we learned from it to Dr Jordan's point is well what has changed right and I think that's what came out of this so it wasn't anything we had to come up with a decision uh the best decision we came up with was what we had to what we know I do think exploring this option was a natural progression of what we talked about I think it's important too outside of the recommendations of the groupings from the subcommittee looking at kind of the constraints or I even constraints but recommendations we put forth and does this solve those because I I don't want to negate the work the committee did uh being individual on it as well like it wasn't a waste of time it was actually open up the discussion how complex this is yeah so appreciate your your your frustration um but but know that maybe it actually led to to the where we are today um okay um [Applause] James hi um James cwell I'm a junior at hollon high school and um I'm also here to speak with uh about the dismissal times the later dismissal times and um I'm one of the many who work after school very soon after school and if these times there were suggested 310 315 were to be enacted I would very likely have to quit my job along with many other people and you know it's kind of funny all throughout school we always told your voice matters your opinion matters and yet in this really big decision of changing schedules we have no voice in it the students have no voice um and so if I could suggest something you like go around and collect data like what do the students think what do people think what like you could go into any classroom tomorrow morning and ask would you rather be dismissed at 310 3:15 345 or earlier than that I guarantee you almost every person every student in the room would agree that they would want to be earlier I would too I'm not a morning person I would rather wake up earlier and get dismissed sooner um so that's all I have to say just maybe put out some kind of survey collect some data and see what people have to say I feel like that kind of information would really help with this decision thank [Applause] you Lizzy hello um hello my name is Elizabeth rooth and I'm a junior attending Holliston High School some of us have been informed of The Proposal of a later start time and I'd like to share how this will affect your students your staff and everyone else involved for me I drive to Franklin after school to attend my extracurricular activities many of which start promptly at 3:30 with a later start time my access to these classes are limited but this goes beyond me as students it extends our hours here for athletes involved in the school's Athletics it affects their schedule and our school's ability to engage with other schools as an employee interferes with the ability to take on weekday shifts your employees our teachers will be impacted whether that be due to paternal duties second jobs or simply because they have a life outside of these walls as students we are encouraged to participate in extracurricular activities do our homework and take care of our Mental Health but the action to push back our start time impacts our ability to do any of the these things therefore this later start time cannot be enacted as it will have an immensely negative impact on our community thank [Applause] you Suzanne me didn't you you don't have to but then you can't [Music] speak um hi my name is Suzanne Adelman I drive bus 4 I am a proud member of a team of people that have driven buses for Holliston for a long long time this is an extremely dedicated talented trained group of people and whatever you need to do probably they'll do it we'll do it the problem is you need more people so the reason why I'm sitting here is I am saying to the school committee and to everybody in Holliston we need more people to step up and learn how to drive school buses and do this job I personally started when my kids were little this is the perfect job for parents in this town short commute home by 9:00 a.m. all day long to do stuff we've had wonderful years where we drove ski club and all sorts of things we were here for our kids and we stay here and it's very very important looking forward that we find people within this community to do this job don't look outside the community for people who are going to get a CDL and they're going to split to go work for Amazon cuz they don't want to deal with the kids cuz that's what happens you want people within the community you want to build a strong group of people to get this job done so that's mostly what I want to say to you is people within Holliston need to step up you got to step up and you got to do the job too and I think that's about it but I hope to see that [Music] [Applause] happen did you want to speak yeah I have an issue okay up there there's the problem sure yeah yeah um first I want to thank um Dr slany and Mr K for bringing up the possibility of Miller and um placentino together I should probably introduce myself I'm Melissa duet 768 Winter Street um I've got four kids in the school system um two are in fifth grade one is in fourth grade and one is in seventh grade I think I got that right um it depends on the day anyway um I so I really like the recommendation of keeping placentino and um or getting placentino and Miller together on the same schedule I think that just works best for all the reasons they said um one thing I want to mention is I saw a continued start time of 7:30 and what I want to like what I think what we need to have on that sheet when you're looking at the data is that that means the bus is coming to my house to pick up my kids between 6:30 and 6:45 in the morning I um I wake up around 5:45 should probably be earlier I'm not a morning person um luckily my work is flexible um but I'm waking them up at 6:00 I'm getting them up trying to get them fed out the door thankfully there's some School breakfast now so I don't if they don't eat I'm like you just grab something at school um but it's a hectic morning and I really want to try to see if we can figure out a way to get them not starting at 7:30 so that they're not out in the dark and in the early morning because I do understand that well I think mine are tending more towards that later time now um just um even my uh with my Miller kids um but I'm having to wake them up it's hard to wake them up it's the cajoling they're a little bit more higher needs they're not functioning and able to do it themselves um and I would just want to make sure that we're um like when we did vote for the override and Dan had said that a few times is that we were going to try to get the start times later and I just think that that that early of a start time is a little bit too much when you factor in the times we're waiting out at the bus and then I do know a lot of parents because of how early the buses come they drop off and so there's probably more drop offs in the morning than there would be if um we were able to facilitate um a little bit later of a start time so I'd like to see something that is able to even push it 15 20 minutes something like that um so I just wanted to bring that to your attention and thank you for all your work at redressing this and bringing it back up again and I think than you for the communication and I feel like I've been informed and understand when things are happening so I can be involved if I want to be so thank you sure hello my name is Claire and I'm a junior here at the high school and I noticed I wasn't going to speak before but I noticed when the slideshow was brought up that one of the reasoning for the later like end time and the later start time for the high school was like for like mental health reasons and I just had something to say on that because especially like right now out in the it's like dark it gets really dark really early and I know that like when I wake up in the morning if it were a later start time when I wake up in the morning my parents are already at work my brother is already at school cuz he goes to a different School and then when I get home I'd do Sports after school and it'd be late then then I'd have to go home kind of like what Autumn was saying I'd have to go home do my homework either make dinner or eat dinner shower and then essentially go to bed before having to do the same thing in the morning with the start time like right now and with the earlier start time earlier end time I can wake up and then go to school do my sports it's still light out so you I can still do things after school and then go home do my homework and and then I have to time to decompress at the end of the night and when it gets dark it gets like really isolating for a lot of people and so if it's getting darker earlier and school's ending earlier people will just wake up they won't have anybody they'll go to school they'll get home they'll fill their whole entire like evening with things and then they just have to go to bed so it's like there's not really any time to like do things like socially or like with your family cuz like you wake up your family's already gone you get home you have to do your homework you have to do all these things like that are mandatory and then you have to go to bed like you don't really have any time to do anything for yourself or with others which is like hurtful to the mental health I'd say that's all thank just uh 3 minutes bar yes got it thank you today I think saying something today hi Barbara Ryan 14 place um first want to thank you again for hosting you know Public Service sometimes calls for these type of hard calls and meeting maybe not at the most opportune times but having been a public servant and serving in many capacities I appreciate youall making this happen tonight um want to thank all of our leadership here uh all your thoughtfulness and then I was driving from the middle of the New York state that's why I was online and now I made it here but I really appreciated all the efforts and the collaboration uh for your presentation and what seems so reasonable for all and the Democratic process and even at this level can feel like a Soup Sandwich so I thank you Michelle it really was a lot of I I was a public attendee not a Committee Member and there was a lot of conversation and it felt sometimes circular but yet it has led us to hear and hopefully a decision that uh will serve the majority I appreciate the students input certainly you know my bias towards start times for teens and Twins and the Larks of you know prek through fifth grade um I think it's crucial to respect um the community that came together and voted for an override uh for this to be possible and for a ratified contract I would I'm going to try to find um a way to understand the negotiation process from a public um citizen standpoint when it comes between school committee and hft that's a big a big interest to me because that seems um to be more behind closed doors and maybe that's the way it's supposed to be but I'd like to see how we could make that a little more transparent for us community members and taxpayers how negotiations with with the hft and the school committee happen my last point is the Bell versus block schedule uh a little segue um to a different topic thank you Mr list for taking such methodical process and getting so much information from a lot of different people uh I know the equity uh the equity audit exists I do know that um from the presentations I've heard there are opportunities to increase learning time um what does that mean the 15 minutes and what does a bell versus a block schedule mean I think that's critical to understand and I think we're here together to make sure our future meaning our children and our students get the best um that they deserve so thank you for letting me speak and I wish you all the best with your decision thank you all right an hi haven't been here for a while Anon 11:35 Highland Street um teacher parent and I also was on the committee and um Michelle thank thank you Michelle for um everything you oh you over there you keep moving around I can't see you thank you Michelle for everything that um that you said um I do have something written down but I'm going to try to paraphrase because she said a lot of the things that I was concerned with and um and plus my computer may die um so I was watching the committee I was watching the school committee meeting a couple weeks ago and um when I heard Dr Kuser say that um first of all I want to go on record saying I thank you all I'm excited that if this can happen I just wish we didn't spend all those hours in that committee and had we known about this information we wouldn't have spend 10 plus hours meeting taken away from family taken away from school work so but I really appreciate it I was in those meetings with you guys um way back when Dr Jackson was there we were trying to figure out how we could get the schools to go together it kept saying we can't get the Miller Elementary School to go together every meeting we were at we would say can we get Miller in elementary can we get it came up so many times and it was like no we can't no we can't no we can't so I want the community at large to know that we did have those discussions and I was saying before right before we voted one of the gentlemen I think he also said he had done a drone thing that one of the he went over with a drone no he wanted to he wanted to and he just couldn't understand why we couldn't get the two schools to go together right before we voted he asked like minutes before we voted he said are you sure there's no way we can get Miller and placentino to go together like no we can't and we brought up things like well why can't we do this like Hoppington doeses it these other towns do it it's like well they have different roads than us they all these other things so I just feel like the process was not a good process and I do think that um I'm very excited that it's going to happen but I do think we need to learn from this and I think we have to think about the fact that the information should have been brought to the committee sooner than it was and I know there's different there's different reasons why it wasn't but Dan on your email to the Community you said that after the override vote you guys were started these comments Keith and um the principles started talking having these conversations so at least having that information I just feel like that was just so much wasted time and like it was energy and it was tough and there was so much emotions and we just didn't have all the facts so I just think we have to learn from this and really think about why we form these committees and and is it important like should we have even formed this committee I guess gu is the question because I don't know that any of the recommendations we brought forward are even going to matter at this point if we're able to do that except that we want to leave by a certain time so I think that has to be taken into account and like Michelle said why wasn't you know there should have maybe been a um a at least an elementary school principal on the committee a high school or a m or Middle School principal on that committee as a conduit like it we as staff members brought information back but there wasn't a conduit and I think am I up okay thank you I just want to say one more quick thing I hope that no but I do hope that if you do have an open Forum that that it's not zoom that it's an open form because I think the community should have the opportunity to express how they're feeling about it that's I really think that that's important thank you I I just want to be clear though I I don't think that the time you guys put into to this advisory committee was a waste at all I mean I first of all what we what you guys working on which was separate from what the principal sort of had had were were trying to work through had they gone to Chief Cassidy and he said nope that's still your you know too close to the fire lane or or or whatever and he said no that's done I mean it it's it's over and then we need to have another plan so and had we come to you and said hey they're working on this that may have changed the way that you were thinking and maybe you you didn't try to make some hard decisions so it wasn't like anyone was trying to mislead but at the same time it wasn't possible until all of a sudden it was and it was after the committee voted to make his recommendation so it's it's tough and I I can understand the frustration but it's it it when a ton of different things are happening at once it it can sometimes get a little jumbled but I think that what the committee did was very very important so please don't think that you wasted your time expect that but we did ask if we could ask we did ask if we could ask the fire and statey we we asked if we do those things so yeah I'm just I'm going to stop there um yes so that can I Michelle to speak on my behalf sure as I said that the turkey dinner is not coming till 9: this is I'm Michelle hting speaking for Tanya pay the bus driver from number 12 and she has a couple of concerns about how some things are going to work she's concerned about um van number SE 97 and 95 which I believe are the vans or buses that we use to transport some of our special education students um with a limited seating and the combining of the I'm assuming from Miller and placentino corre combining Miller and placentino um can't having not being able to have too many students also because the Dynamics change significantly depending on the students that are involved and the other concern being um the shortage of bus drivers going from with the already having the shortage of bus drivers with 12 buses never mind increasing it to 17 buses in the concerns about Al also having the concern about getting the additional bus drivers for that and than thank you thank [Music] you do you just want to speak to that real quick yeah I mean you know the traditional or the way we've operated buses um for 15 18 years now is we've had 15 buses um you know for the high school middle school run so we've been able to call up 15 homes has been able to call up 15 drivers I've spoken with Tim often this this fall about where we'd end up when we were talking about having to get up into close to 20 buses he was not optimistic when we're talking now about 17 buses he was optimistic and ultimately um you know while we've struggled this year he he's hopeful and has a plan we just the sooner we have a plan for him the sooner he can try to execute that plan so um you know the the and again T you me mentioned special ed we are fully aware of that that the number of special ed Vans will have to increase we we know that um how we do that whether it be through uh buses or or the you know the the Dodge Caravans um with 7D licenses I mean those things are those discussions are happening as well please know that that's not you saying that is not news to us so can I just mention one thing with the shortage I don't just me this one company it's oh no absolutely no no this is an industrywide shortage there's no question about it I mean Tim and have I Tim and I have had some discussions about recruiting tactics and things of that nature so no we've Tim and I speak probably I won't say every week but pretty close so and we've been more fortunate than some of the surrounding districts too even though we still have had our challenges is there anyone on Zoom who is just to speak okay um we did have one um submission from from a resident uh to be read out loud and uh Frank volunteered to read that keep you have three minutes three minutes all right Stacy wait wait wait wait wait forgot about getting started can you speak up please y I will okay thank you all right Stacy rafy 20 Arthur Street good evening I'd like to request that the school committee address the following questions regarding the two Clauses in the recent Mo MOA contract with the ft what is the school committee doing to support the administration to ensure their success in implementing any changes to the high school schedule specifically how are you advocating for all students underlined all at the high school with respect to high school schedule the district recently performed an equity audit which was supported by the school committee and administration based on that audit there was a strong push to look at making changes to the current High School block schedule as there in inequities for students in Bandon cores and some of the special education students as a member of the school council for for the high school I've attended multiple meetings with Mr list over the last year in which he was very transparent sharing his thoughts and plans on how to look at adjusting the high school schedule he specifically wanted to solicit teacher teacher and student input wanted to put forth recommendations for the community and provide feedback on and then plan to present his final recommendation to you the school committee from there the school committee could then recently bargain any impact of the schedule adjustment with the hft however instead of allowing Mr list to proceed in this careful and measured way you tied him to a process Bound by a contract with condensed timeline that may or may not be feasible and then you remind them at every one of your meetings that January 1st is fast approaching what is the school committee currently doing to support and ensure that the school schedule subcommittee is working towards the best interest of students and how will the school committee work to help the administration come together with hft to achieve their goals in regards to the start times bus schedules I've watched and listened to all of the committee meetings as a former school committee member who sat on a previous committee and did the actual research on the science of teens and sleep as relates to their well-being and success in school I want to clarify an important point of why the sub subcommittee recommended and the school committee in fact voted twice to implement the high school start time we currently have science does not just indicate that students need more sleep science and the related Research indicates that teenagers need more of the REM sleep that occurs a few hours into their sleep cycle I recently heard adults say we need to compromise and move the high school back to 7:45 in fact in 2001 we did compromise and settle on 810 at the time we felt it was a reasonable compromise to the 8:30 or later start time recommended by experts based on the science and research all of which is available to the current committee I strongly encourage to not start the high school Endor Rams prior to 8: a.m. for the sake of the well-being of our growing teenagers I strongly encourage and request you did not vote for a high school or middle school start time prior to 8: a.m. you have the research and data from other districts show that 8: a.m. or 8:15 start time is completely reasonable to accommodate after school activities Athletics and job schedules what I com 23 good job I know any idea what you read I'll send it to you um all right can I can I just can I ask questions you want to make public comment are we still even public comment I was going to give one last chance anybody who who wished to speak but didn't okay so now we we'll bring it back into the committee and and yes Cynthia thank you so hi so we of do Mr K and Dr slany five whatever plus years ago we went through this whole process where we surveyed the community all constituencies students parents teachers um any anybody that was part of the school district we surveyed them the preferred schedule that we wanted to implement at that time was to combine Miller and placentino together and keep Rams in the high school together and that's what we moved forward with and then all of these obstacles came in our way you you know unified Arts um we had too many kids there was 15 00 kids at that time there are substantially less kids in in both of those schools at this point just because of you know people aren't having as many kids um I mean that's just a fact and so there's a lot of other and through covid um you learned a lot like you talked about how the bus dismissal and drop off has changed substantially I mean significantly um we had multiple conversations with Chief Cassidy about the safety of using different access roads and that prevented any movement us moving mov forward with that plan 5 years ago which was why we came up with our compromise solution which I will give kudos to Mr K because he's the one that came forward and said I hope that's okay and he came forward and said you should have us go first it makes more sense in terms of their the all of the things that we've talked about about students the younger students starting earlier made sense and so you know kudos to Mr Kim for coming forward with that compromis solution and that's what we've been doing for the last many years so I really strongly encourage the committee and the community to listen to our administrators and what they are advising us to do this is their area of expertise and we should be focusing on what they have to say about it and so I think that the proposal that we have in front of us is a good one now can we tweak it a little bit if possibly hopefully yes I hope that that's possible for us to tweak it to make things a little bit later maybe for the placentino Miller kids um but and I want to respect the students that do have after school opport unities and have jobs and other commitments and I think that we're able to achieve that just with making some adjustments I think that we should do that but I we need to listen I need to because if you if you move 7:30 later you understand that the high school would then get out 3:15 330 later if you move one you have to move the other correct well possib I mean I think it depends on how we combine the bus routes and how we you know right now we're factoring at like 55 minutes no in the afternoon you're factoring 40 minutes is that correct it's yes the resultant of of how it moves so it's it's but the morning is still 55 right right right okay so but we I mean look I I think that for for four years plus we have heard significant continued concerns from parents about the Miller start time especially when the bus pickups have been and I will say I was one who in 2019 sat in the audience when the school committee did a a uh an open forum and thought that uh this was ridiculous people would would figure it out and would lives would would adjust and and it would make it work and then Co happened and everyone's life life was blown up and so it was the perfect opportunity to do it and yet time after time I continue to hear from people saying that this is just not working and that having these students picked up in the dark with all the issues surounding that is not working um for families and now the proposal is to essentially double the number of kids including adding significantly younger kids to that population I I I I will not vote for anything that is the start time of 7:30 um so you know and I don't and I'm not even sure that I think the doubling the number of student start the young our youngest student starting earlier is the best option so um I I I get the this the sleep study but and and and the Sleep impact but you're even hearing from the students themselves saying you know I'd rather get up earlier so that I can do more stuff in the afternoon um I I mean I think from from I have not done all the the reading on the sleep studies but from my understanding is that the real benefits came from significant significantly delay starts 9:30 9:30 much much later than we're even coming close to is 8:30 or later so what is your suggestion that we go back to 7:30 for the no I said I'm not in favor of a 7:30 start time so are we I think we're in alignment though we want the elementary to go together and we want Rams and high school it just depends who's going first versus second I I think that the elementary schools going together would would be ideal um I think that we need to to play that out and see if where we get to on the other end is something that we like and if we we you know and then also seek community feedback and different things but I'm I'm still I'm not opposed to throwing out other Alternatives quite yet completely but I think I would would like to go down this Avenue to to see if we can figure out a way to make this work so can I just say one L wanted to the high school students that was the reason why 7:30 was left as the possible start time for the Early Child The Early Elementary students to keep the high school students at 810 because right now if we didn't nothing with the additional 15 15 minutes they get out to 258 so we were again trying to address as many of the factors obviously we can't address everything we also were hearing what the concerns of the staff Miller in particular about the 7:30 time so at any time Keith can adjust the model and show you what would happen if he if we adjust well maybe we should start doing it but I will also say that 258 is currently the the end time for the teacher dat currently correct okay so that's the other piece of trying to least people I I did have a question uh regarding the placentino and Miller one of the things that you had said was the earlier star times for our K through fifth students improve learning um help sustain attention and Mr Kim you've lived this for 5 years um there was there was a teacher who's also a mom who said to me and I said we've gotten a lot of feedback so I agree with Dan's point that we have gotten a lot of feedback from parents that 7:30 is too early right and that that's really hard that they're shoving food at their kid at 6:30 putting them on a bus um and that it's too early but that teacher and Mom said and both things may be true because um it might feel too early at home but we were getting kids that are alert awake ready to learn doing well and you've lived this for 5 years one of the benefits that your spous as you make this argument is improve learning sustain detention have you seen that from the time that we've shifted Miller from 8:10 to 7:30 like what is the perception there on whether kids are ready to learn at 7:30 so when you look at our schedule we've bumped our unit and um this is going to be a little bit of roundabout so bear with me um we bump our unified Arts to 8:25 so that teachers can actually have that instructional time from 7:30 to 8:25 before they go off to unified Arts because that is key instructional time and and the teachers want their students at that time the later you go to unified Arts uh the that instructional time in the morning um is probably the best you eat your lunch I get tired after I eat my lunch and you know you you get into that that's why we put in recess in the afternoon that's why we put in we've got Spanish that'll go in and and just movement uh breaks that happen but the the morning uh learning time is probably the strongest that that we have I don't know if that answers your question no we heard from the teachers as well do we have just like we have the tribe high school do we have the the start and end times of other elementary schools in the area I don't think we have it for tonight but we have access to it I have a question about the um support services that are offered to to the bantino and Miller kids are they shared like are the they they unified Arts is shared but our our our special ed teachers are building specific so there wouldn't be a conflict with tighter window where those okay no but actually at Le s it could potentially help as enrollment shifts have happened it does maybe allow some flexibility with us able to share some of our support staff as well support each other for services and in terms of lunch minutes I think this is a piece that people may be really concerned about what how long are you envisioning for lunches in order to now share the same facility so right now at 30 minutes each class would still get y mine come in at uh in in shifts you know I've got a a 1010 to 1040 I've got some that come in from 10:15 to 10:45 I've got some that come in from 1040 to 1110 another group that comes in at 10:45 to and then I've got all of third grade that come in at 11:05 and get out at 11:35 mine ends clears out and placentino then starts at 11:45 and honestly um kids don't take that long to eat um but 15 that is a contractual obligation of our teachers to have a 30-minute lunch so we would keep a 30- minute lunch okay but now your kids won't be arriving close to 9 so they may have had breakfast as early as 6:15 or 6:20 so we'll still have kids eating as late as 12:30 or 1:00 and if so do we have a snack plan or a breakfast plan for those kids so we didn't say that would be our current time that that wouldn't be our current time we would look at shifting that earlier yeah and I think we also want to encourage the many kids to take we would be we'd be utilizing our space a little differently so right now um Miller and placentino have separate lunches and we have we have many empty tables in our cafeteria so we would just be looking at maximizing our space to be able to make sure that we condense the time of when they're eating so they're not eating too early but they're not eating too late okay I think as we talk about surveying um caring the high school students tonight was important um just to get their perspective and I know the guiding principle probably the top guiding principle is to help our students but that has a multiple different layers to it um obviously the feedback tonight has been pretty unanimous in terms of later start times will impact a number of different opportunities uh I think we should make that broader and understand you large like what is the actual impact based on a survey of some sort we us do that I a separate survey from what we've been thinking about it would be my only other concern obviously is that you you will have a certain group of students who will be over represented um I any survey though May uh no I just mean like the older you get the more likely um I want to forget the voice of our younger kids who might not be able to come and speak as well you know you know they get off a bus now it's pitch black so we worry about kids getting on the bus in the morning um you have to remember placentino students are the only students who come back at the end of a run so if a parent is not at that stop they come back as it is I still have parents sometimes picking up at 5:00 as it is right now from the time that they come so I don't want us to underestimate I think it's all voices we need to think and there's going to have to be a balance between it I appreciate the feedback we've received so far today email from the uh and from the school in bestar committee I think a survey is going to be really important to our students and our family and our faculty as well because as we think about the adjustments that you alluded to snia like this is a solid plan but are there some um blind spots some things that we're not considering that might help us make some adjustments where needed great I thought it was a really good point too about the lay Buffs and as we push the high school back and we do want our kids to be part of clubs and activities we also don't want to DW I mean the difference placentino kids do have to have a parent at their bus stop but when we drop off that 11 or 12-year-old from the late bus they might walk a mile or a mile and a half and if we push the time back it could be dark or is likely dark how would that work with our placentino kids if we've only allowed a lot it for 40 minutes run in the afternoon and you have children who don't have someone at the bus stop but you got to get that bus back to pick up Rams and the high school would like is that going to do that happen often and is that going to then throw your bus schedule off the the bus has to come back anyway somewhat I mean would it make the bus possibly later um for pickup at the uh uh high school we have plan for first no the afternoon's middle uh middle first um but either either way I mean the it it's been difficult Jamie can talk to this it's been difficult when buses have a longer run because the the the the children at at the elementary need more supervision um direct supervision so if a child if a bus was later at the high school or the Middle School the children can manage themselves better um you know and and the fact is when you talk lake buses um you know the the while we'll always have a model we can always have a model with a late bus it's when can the late bus get there and if we have the bigger bus run first with bigger number of buses it means the lake bus will get there earlier if it's it's the if it's the flip of that the late bus will be there later because again it's busy doing regular runs so think we're also unfortunately I think because of some of the driver Shores that we have we're running a late bus later than we historically have um this year and are managing about a 4:00 late bus time I mean I think you know uh Mr Manning can can expand upon that but that we're we're running a a historically later um time than we do right now um which I think would be the current late bus time would be pretty consistent with what the late bus time would be for next year um so okay can we can we just start by can we see what happens if we move the start time at 7:45 I think the other thing is are how confident are you that you can get the Adams in high school uh difference in start times of 5 minutes from from where it is currently 10 um go ahead no I was going to say I just want to point out we revers that to accommodate those extra minutes since the high school does Run 10 minutes later already that's why we reverse right now it's 8:05 you're correct and 810 at the high school and that's why we put the five minutes on Adams because that was it five I thought it was eight and 10 um it's 10 minutes difference in the school day at the high school the start time isn't 10 minutes difference a 10 minutes right now yes it's right now Adams is 8:05 High School is 810 but in order to try to keep the minimum on the end time we reversed and put the F just five minutes and put add second doesn't start eight right now 805 805 I just dropped my kid off of here and that's and that is all for the point we're try let I thought I thought it was well that's good then you're on time I guess then um so so again talking about some of the variables so if we move the start to 7:45 okay um if like I said before if if we only allotted say 10 minutes for breakfast time so it' be 10 minutes before right um you know that would push us to a 45 minute time here and if we were able to do the run say 5 minutes faster through either some efficiencies the bridge helps or whatever you know we're we're we're talking about having a 4 minute runtime in the afternoon which is right here oh you it's doing on my Mouse um no no no it's all fine yeah it's all fine there um so that's a reasonable afternoon runtime um so we're looking at you know again that the placentino would plastino Miller would start at 7:45 end about 2:30 and 220 excuse me um the high school and Adams would then get pushed to 825 and 8:30 with an high school end time of 313 and 308 so which would then make the high school the latest by a minute three minutes three minutes okay I remember but those the two that are the 310 are already the latest by a fair amount from everybody else there's not but I I think some of the question though when you look at the the the changes that are happening in Tri Valley and in high schools in general that are coming you know this type of change we're probably going to make as a district once or certainly once in a near generation and and well yeah this this had an outside reason you're not going to have that outside reason again we're not going to add more star times we're not going to be able to add 20 20 more buses to be able to put everybody at the same time or anything like that so this is kind of like the these onetime decisions so if you if you if you don't make the decision in a fashion to make the high school start later now the next time you're going to look at it it's probably going to be 10 years from now is what I'm saying Keith what if we can change this enrollment Trend I mean I feel like that is the goal to be able to have increased enrollment like hoofington or stable enrollment like it's the enrollment though is based on development and does not have that much developable land or or building projects going forward right now we're going in the wrong direction we're not S no exactly and and that if throughout Massachusetts there are appreciably less students this is not a hollon thing this is a Massachusetts thing because people are finding that between covid and moving somewhere else and working remotely then it's oh I like it here so even if they can't be remote they're staying there I have two good friends of mine who did that they went to Colorado and like to ski and they haven't come back um it's just I you know from that I what I worry about is that in the scenario with with the high school and and if we're thinking about Athletics being an important part it we certainly want to be first to the dance cuz then you're alone but I don't think you want to be last to the dance either because you dismiss at 2:00 and and everybody else is playing sports at 3:30 or 4:00 I there's a gap there that you know we're not going to be able to fill with anything you know productive possibly so I think to Keith's point if you put the high school back early and other districts are now starting their Sports later to accommodate these other later schedules our students would not not only be still tireder they'd also have to hang around and not use that time wisely before they for it so it's it's six one half and also just exploring is the shift of schools secondary schools to later times a trend that will continue um and that I I wouldn't want to be in a scenario where the predominance of the tri valley is at later times and we are the the earlier at that point well even if they went first though we're talking about half an hour difference so they'd either be out 2:45 like they are 243 now or 313 so it's not like we have a 2:00 option I mean it it well you would if you had high school anoms first it would be much closer if we started High School Adams at 7:45 when would they get it out if we flipped it basically I quickly built a model for that too now um you would be out of 233 okay I mean that like later no would it be 238 3345 minutes he said 7:45 yeah if they started at 7:45 648 you have a 638 Miller which is getting you out at 228 and you're adding 10 minutes why wouldn't that be 238 oh sorry that's where the buzzes depart never mind yeah putting you're putting too many numbers on this Wow since the numbers gu yeah but it's not how I would arrange it you wrong thenor I think we need to stick with keeping the elementary school going first and if there's a way that we can tweak it so that they can go at 7:35 or maybe 7:40 then I think we should try to do that but I think the farther we get past you know 308 313 I mean I feel like that 308 it still keeps us within the realm if we do that for the Adamson High School to end take five minutes well I guess before we go too far down the path of times I think it' be great for us in the administration to know that you support high school and Adam staying together and placentino and Miller going together um just because there was a committee recommendation that didn't recommend that um I had a recommendation packed from May um I'm just I'm just say structure is important right I I think I agree that structure is important but I also I'm not saying I'm not saying who's first and second just I go the first piece of the structure I think given the fact that we first heard about this on November 14th um and that I'm committed to hearing feedback from the community and the impact on students and staff um at all levels I I mean I'm not ready to make a decision tonight and I think that um you know to the students point of of surveying families um so hopefully families can speak for our younger students um and and hearing more from our high school students about the impact I I I think all of those pieces are important in determinating first and second I I hear you on the whether they go together well because for me and trying to build some semblance of roots like I said i' I've gotten for High School Middle placentino Miller I've put every kid on a bus now every student's on a bus that that has one this year again I've got to tweak some more things and move Roots around and add buses to the run and things like that just to see how workable it is but if if I had that piece of the structure I can at least build that you know and and do you know what I'm saying because it takes a the build I mean we're talking like a week of solid work so are you saying there's uncertainty as to the 40 minutes in the afternoon that you might come back to us and say oh wait it's 55 minutes and now your 3:05 end time for the high school is now 3:20 are you telling me there's uncertainty on the on the 40 minute to 55 minute I'm saying that what I need to do is is build the I The Roots build from the start of the day not the end of the day the end of the day will like I say fix itself you'll adjust the start based on whether the end can happen so if we if if if the the start times that I understand the the the commitment the committee made if it's that we want to pick up children at least 10 minutes later say in the morning it's just a some round number by being able to build the roots to start with I would be able to see H whether or not because the high school middle school if they're together that's already built that's what we have now so there's no I that time is booked so to say so to speak the the the uh uh elementaries run is not so I've got to kind of Lay It All Out put it all out have the system do their assumptions and see kind of what that time is I'm I'm assuming it's about a 55 minute run um and it may be less it may be 50 minutes it may be 48 it may be I'm just you know and again if if and I know and I understand the commitment I do but you got 40 minutes built in there to get you I got 40 minutes at the end of the day the end of the day is a shorter run because of the traffic situation the morning is longer because of traffic just also add that like as Keith was saying just to kind of add to that point is our secondary busing is built and we have a better understanding of the length of that time so I would conservatively or cautiously Optimist be optimistic about the 40 minutes on there cuz we know what those runs are the 40 minute we're talking about the 40 minutes of Miller placentino because that's what gets you to the Adams High School I got I got to start building that's what I'm saying and I'm making assumptions and the the the when the high school dismisses doesn't necessarily mean when the buses arrive right that's always been the case no that's always been the case iess what Keith wants is to know if we think that the path forward is more likely than not going to be to put placentino Miller together and keep the high school and Rams together rather than going to some other alternative Solutions what the committee recommended or the high school placentino together versus I just I it's just it allows me to move certain things forward honest everyone has spoke hearing where no one has talked against the groupings it's who's starting first like the feedback is related to and that committee kept asking about that pairing and we kept saying that pairing doesn't exist so we kept having to ignore it I think entering it back in if we asked those same people they would have supported this I agree everyone was nodding their head and it was there was Michelle thank you I think we talked about it you into being layer different groupings which could solve different problems if for instance look compromis if we don't like this because it ends too late because again if that 40 minutes is is 45 minutes now you're talking about 318 but why would you need to decouple the groupings we're arguing now which grouping goes first or second cou solve it because if if you're willing to couple Rams in high school and have them go first which I feel like you've already I'm not because that's the whole don't know we've ever the experts that are sitting right in front of us just told us is not a good idea so and all of the research that we have done for years that tells us that's not a good idea well but you just heard from from the high school students themselves that said we've heard from from a few high school students and they didn't say they didn't like they said they didn't like two what 343 getting out cuz that's what was presented and that's not the time that we're looking at at all there there was a variety from them but I I think that what that that that feeds into we need more information I don't disagree but I think that we can agree on we we support the groupings as they've been presented in terms of couplings I support them so long as we can get high school out by 3:00 would be the 7:30 start time for PL unless we are now running these bus routes and can come to us with more certainty that it will take 40 minutes or it will take 45 minutes um in the morning and you know 40 minutes in the afternoon and I think that would be our hoped outcome but initially let's just say we play it at all we think we can get there it's more likely than not that at the beginning of the year we would not be there and then we would try to tighten it up that's always the case I mean that's just maybe a new process and just they gave you more than one option for how the cars might go that might change so this is sort of thinking that the 55 minutes would be the worst case and hour is what we believe but with the hope that maybe we could reduce 5 or 10 minutes and get us tighter um moving forward I don't think that would happen initially though right we would have we would have to make a determination whether or not we would take some risk with the um time we figure out whether we would take risk with the time um that buses may be later to High School Middle School um if the if the elementary runs ran late so we'd have to extend the time earlier to make sure they got done earlier CU it's not necessar the time that the Elementary starts it's the time that the elementary delivers the students so the buses can get back on the road right so the the you know so you know change so much as it changes when students might get home if they're taking the bus home but a lot of them aren't going to be taking the bus home because there other activities after school and work and other things that that's if the afternoon run is not as fast as we hope so that would be you know again dismissal is not in the for in the afternoon this again just like just like in the morning the time the bus gets there is not necessar I mean it's related to but it's not dependent on the time the school starts the time the school ends do not necessarily mean when the buses roll either and I just want to be clear in terms of you know what you initially presented with the 3:00 time I I found the subcommittee's recommendations really helpful and I and I understand the frustration and everything all all of how that transpired but one of the things they said was the scheduling of schools should be thoughtful around student sleep limit the impact on teacher retention and limit the impact on after school activities not limited to sports clubs extracurriculars and after school jobs and I think that's really important right we got that from the committee and all of their work together as a recommendation and I feel like we heard that resoundingly one thing we haven't talked a ton about tonight but I think it's probably Weighing on all of us is also the impact on teacher retention and we've we we heard about the survey um that was conducted in terms of the impact for teachers with getting out later and I think we've all reviewed that as well so I think that's where I'm coming from where I'm in favor of a coupling but I do think we need to um minimize impact both on the activities but also on on teacher retention and what the feedback they've given us on pushing past that 3:00 Mark yeah so I think that's kind of what we were thinking as well and that's why we started with where we are now with the 7:30 for Miller because if you look at the high school right now the teachers at the high school get out at 258 and that's why when you're leaving their end time at the exact same time Miller would be the exact same end time placentino would be the one that is U most impacted as far as having to change and middle school would be very little impacted as well with the additional 15 minutes that the teachers already were having to stay so that was also a factor considered we were thinking of the teachers the students um what we can manage what logistical barriers are what we can Finance the bus um number of drivers we we tried to think of all of that and that's why we came up with the plan my only concern with the teacher feedback is and as in the committee I was thinking through it in my head as well we're going to if we want to start schools later that means a school doesn't know we don't really need to mention which one's going to end later so you know we heard the feedback loud and clear we have a secondary job I got to go take care of my kids I mean I've heard it all loud and clear at the end of the day if we want to push times later there is a school that's going to be impacted by that so I think we have to keep that in mind as well so it all comes down to what school may be impacted if to go in that direction I don't love 7:30 start time but if that's where we need to compromise on to make everything else fall in place I I would be in favor of that with what schools start the Elementary start first so doubling down the number of students that we have standing outside in the dark they're out in the dark for how many days out of the winter we push them later they may out dark at night okay now it's worth at night I I will we have not heard from from many of any placentino teachers but going to 7:30 you're talking about an 85 minute difference for them as well so we've heard from a lot of teachers about you know that that an hour difference is is substantial for them I think this is may be the first time that the community is hearing about it a significant change in in placentino um maybe moving early is earlier is easier I you know but um you know people still so we have to I mean we unfortunately we you know this is going to significantly impact some group of people and you know we're going to try to do our best to um come up with the best solution that that we think minimizes that um but I do not think that we can throw out the idea of starting Adams in the high school first well I do okay well um so where should we go should from here would it be are we in favor of at least putting together a survey to get more data but also with the understanding that we're running out of time on this um and we have you know December 5th maybe December 12th we want to make sure we've getting feedback from people not everybody could make it this evening some people are just going to get up to speed probably through a Comm Comm unication that will come out in the next few days I'd be happy to be part of putting together a survey Taylor do you think I like to well all right and S your chair of com so makes sense all right so if you so well you know Communications right um but we need this quickly and I guess the questions are going to be important so is the context being put around it and I guess we've now doubled the number of surveys we're doing tonight um so when do you think can we should we try to do you think it's feasible to put together a thoughtful survey to go out early next week yes yes open for about a week open for about a week I think at the same time I think we should do something with December 5th whether we do a community form in person whether we do a webinar we can we can discuss that um do we want just I mean if we we don't we won't have time obviously to meet to sort of approve the survey so we'll kind of have to sort of empower the that uh that thre to sort of make that final decision maybe they can share it with us but we can't really deliberate on it um do we want to limit the survey to simp to this these two pairings I think if you open up more I I think that we should we should vote on the pairings and say this is what we're going with cuz that's the advice that we're being given I I and then we can put it out this is what we're recommending saying something open-ended isn't going to help us we need to talk about no I'm not saying open-ended but do we do we stick do we put the the subcommittee's recommendation in there to get feed solicit feedback on that but we we I I get the we recommendations and I appreciate the recommendations like it's not the groupings it's who starting when and by mixing and matching the schools doesn't solve any of the problems it opens up new problems it just creates new problems a rock in a hard place like but no one has argued elementaries should go together secondary should go together it depends when and frankly that was years ago but when we do this process the first time around that was the grouping that the community wanted so that's why we went with that but you well you didn't have the money at the time we did not have the money at the time for the extra buses that would require but also it became a safety concern from Chief Cassidy as well as the administrators who said this is not going to work we can't correct but but now you're talking about the fact that the community just V voted for 200 to to increase their taxes by $200,000 more obviously in total but $200,000 for additional buses yeah with the explicit understanding that we were going to be starting later than 7:30 now you're saying you know I mean to keep to keep what I want I'm going to I don't know if it was explicitly about moving the start times at 7:30 it was adjusting issues around the elementary it wasit were concerned about the fact that they had a bigger gap between placentino and Miller other people were paying for early childhood and after after care there was a more than but we were very explicit that we would start school all schools later than 73 this is compromise I mean compromising all things this is sort of where we're at I mean we can't have all of those things and have them all work we're trying to do the best that we can given the information that we have and the amount of money and time and buses that we can actually support so I mean yes I would like to see that we can tweak that I hope that we can make that work but I don't 100% % know that it will but I don't think that we abandon all of the other research that's been done about student sleep and the needs of the younger kids and the older kids for the sake of 10 minutes I I think that we're putting a lot of in I mean student sleep is OB everyone's sleep is is very important we could all use use more of it there are tons of studies that say that adults don't get enough sleep that's absolutely true um our job is to take care of students I don't personally think that that the 20 minutes is going is is the the biggest driver for for this decision and I mean we're talking about mental health and and how sleep impacts mental health being able to participate in the activities that you want to be able to participate in get out during this time and have you know and have the opportunity to get outside that also is is part of mental health so simply saying that we we've got to start as late as possible because that that's the only thing that drives mental health is I didn't say possible all just compromis if we were looking it was my my choice personally I would say that we students should be going at 8:30 obviously that's not something the community is looking for so there's compromise so the compromise is the kids get out at 3:10 at like the latest but if we start the high school at 7:45 that's that's still confir I mean the high school is starting at 7:30 that's still 15 the high school is not starting at 7:30 the high school no no no the high school was starting at 7:30 before that was 5 years ago right so we're still moving from from 5 years ago we're that is not what these administrators just sat in front of us and said what's best for students what's best for students is for them to start earlier for the younger students when their Sarcan rhythms dictate that that's the best time for their learning and for the older kids it's better for their Saria rhythms to start slightly later so I think we stick with the pairings and start with they go earlier if we can tweak that to 5 minutes or 10 minutes so it's 7:35 or 7:40 for them to go to school to help with that morning routine but the reality is that that darkness in the morning is for like 18 or 19 days because we shift our calendars and then it's that it's not just darkness it's the fact that later in the day is a more dangerous time for those it's not just parents have also reported having difficulty getting their kids up even at that age so I mean it's it's not just the darkness that's driving this and then it's also at the end of the day I don't disagree I've had three kids that had to do three different bus times I get it it's hard but I the compromise is what we need to opening up the groupings though will create too much complexity to survey the groupings are the groupings we need to ask about the start times but but the issue the the issue is that that that Cynthia has put out is that the only option is to to listen to to the principles and not to dismiss your your views and your exper our Miller teachers came in and said that shifting their SCH schedules was going to be a hard hardship for them and we have gotten we have gotten at least as many emails from from high school for them to start later than three times looking at doing it later than that get the feedback and then we'll have a discussion with the feedback yeah the high school teachers wanted so we're getting we've got one group so like I don't mean to pit teachers against teachers but I'm not but at the same time we just heard from David List who is our principal at the high school who has spoken to spoken to the issue around Athletics and said is as long as we're around that 310 as latest as 310 that we should be okay that's the latest though and kids are still getting they're getting dismissed early I know that kids are getting to games late even at the 240 dismissal like it's not this is not I don't I'm not 310 to me is like the allive drop dead like we couldn't possibly go later than that no I wouldn't advise us to go am not 100% comfortable with 310 I would like to see it 3:00 2:55 just a time of bit earlier I well with the elementary with the elementary starting if we're trying to compromise the elementary starting a little bit why I'm not convinced that Elementary should go first Sarah makes a good point and through this override we talked a lot about instruction minutes right I mean that was something we talked to the community about about what just 15 extra minutes means and with the understanding that right now we have kids dismissed early for sports that have like a 100 Kids 120 kids multiple times through the year and that's with a 243 dismissal time so when we while we push this back multiply the minutes whether it's 20 minutes 25 minutes 30 extra minutes of being dismissed early by 100 kids or 120 kids um on various times I mean and again instructional minutes matter we we talked about that with the community through this overide so I hear Sarah on that concern with 3:00 2:55 I I'm not really sold on these 310 or later and those minutes are important one thing I'll tell you I mean and I and I hate it when people do this so I'm going to do it um but um last year when my daughter was in fifth grade getting her up and getting her to school at 7:30 was very difficult I mean it so it is you know things had already so to say that Miller I mean I think that probably placentino is less so because I think those kids are probably up earlier and and and and RAR to go but had my daughter been able to sleep in longer maybe maybe her attention SP would have been been lasted longer throughout the day too so I mean I I that that's why I think that the the sleep really should not I mean it really should not be the driving factor in in our decision that we're making I would like to see it be one of the factors like the subcommittee recommended right be thoughtful around student sleep but also limit the impact on teacher retention and limit the impact on after school activities and jobs just like our students spoke up so I think the Ser actually I think we're building the survey Hillary uh for you right now I think it's really too options right do it too quickly we have the groupings and it's basically we have approximate times plus or minus a few minutes that becomes the question hold on Sports real quick just I know it's a big so the way sports are done golf no matter what time we could finish at 1:30 and we might still have to dismiss early because golf we get the times from the courses no they choose way the sun works right yeah they choose like we have no say in that um as more as when track happens when there's indoor track when there's events those are going to be scheduled most of those have a a huge amount of kids there's a few times a year that happens with the other sports we're we're not seeing whether a student gets dismissed early that's on the the family that's not like you know we can get kids there um really as I said like Sarah before like that 310 is that like sort of like that is sort of like the drop dead time for us when talking to Matt talking looking at our traffic patterns um into where we then start to possibly lose the avail ility of like freshman and JV sports that's like that's when starts to get iffy um with those that's you know looking at something like 258 like where we are now like that's our current I mean technically it's our current schedule for teachers so it would in reality allow if we were able to do something like that allow us to have students get to the bus in time get changed get onto the buses um and make it to sporting events um and talking to to Matt Baker um and other AD and schools and so that's sort of where I just wanted to throw that out there for the dismissals uh piece of it thank you and I I would just reiterate that the sub Varsity Sports I think are hugely important too so I want any I would cringe to to impact those no and that's why I say that's why I was honest about like that PR 10 being like that like absolute you know sort of cut off there and that's where when you look at like Medfield over the same thing right like they they know that as well um cuz I know uh Medfield originally was looking at a 315 end time and then that has been moved back um more recently to 310 yeah we rather not do 310 and I just it's not just Sports CU I feel like we've said that a lot but we have at our high school and I'm I'm so thrilled that kids have as many opportunities as they have for clubs things like best buddies NHS enironmental Club um will we get a lot of impact or input from teachers that by pushing this time they're going to have to leave or they wouldn't be able to do those type of clubs or activities I mean if you don't have an adviser they don't run right and and that is something I'm I'm worried about in addition to sports it's many clubs and we see that as r at Rams as well um and I know that Miller has some opportunities and placentino you know and Miller have extended day but it doesn't impact them in quite the same way so I am still you know acutely concerned about the end time do do we have any data to show that moving the high school start time Back 40 minutes has improved student outcomes or mental health or mental health I mean I know Co kind of threw everyone for a loop there and it's a little difficult butan do we have any data to show that that 40 minutes has actually done what the committee at the at the time was was was trying to to achieve yeah wasn't here when the initial surveys were done and where we were at that time so I think do we have D I guess I'd have to ask do we have data to show where we were then with mental health compared to now and then how do we disaggregate the factors that also impacted like you said Co um I mean so many things have changed so I I personally don't feel like I could speak to that I can only speak to the research that I've read um you know we've done a lot of studies on the research that's out there from multiple areas not just in Holliston and good practi yeah I mean I think you would just probably was back in past past and recent presentations that uh jerl ver and Mrs Bey have done and then whether just drawing from that whether you can draw conclusions um from that to um the past um I think there was some longitudinal data that was presented in that we do pull from the Metro West adolescent Health survey which is our kind of standardized Health survey that you can look back to I think 2012 uh may have been when it started or whatever and kind of pull from there which is an every 2 years uh piece and and then you can look at like academic performance Middle School uh as well over the last you know 5 to 10 years and what trajectories those have been on as well can we do something like can we look at 2017 and 2018 versus 2022 and 2023 which were fairly you mean 2023 certainly was you know not a CO year 2022 I guess was kind of middling but yeah so we could pull out I would imagine we could put something together and pull out you know a longitudinally what those studies look like so we definitely saw an uptick in the the survey data that we had during Co so now that's why we said we implemented the bus changes I walked into that through Co um and so many other factors and we at that point we couldn't disaggregated at all I do think we could look at preco data I think the challenge will be correlating that to spe it's going to be it's going to be very challenging to pull it look at the data for you it's one of the reasons why we weren't able to do the impact studies because Co kind of just threw everything off so was the intent but saying sleep sleep sleep sleep we don't have any any information that actually support effect that is actually improveed well I think it's difficult cuz it's not the only thing that the schools are doing to improve students AC and social emotional so it's hard to pull out just that as the fact and that's where I'm not I'm I'm a doctor of Education I'm not a medical doctor so we rely on evidence from doctors and nurse practitioners and I those are the people that have done all these research studies and that's the studies that we've um we researched as a team as well and really wanted to support the needs of our students one thing we haven't talked about uh or or did not get to yet we high school and Rams go first obviously 7:30 is out the door so we're talking 7:45 750 is time frame possibly are we good with the elementary starting what 8:30 8:45 well that would still be 20 25 minutes or before they start now do we want to see what those numbers and have yeah we need to talk about both sides impact yeah yeah no no no but what I'm saying is right now um plas C starts at 855 I have that one right right okay um but so if you start 3835 you're starting 20 25 minutes early you're going 10 minutes latero 15 minutes later right you're still ending earlier than than you are now fortino not Miller no not for Miller Miller starts at 7:30 well right forer but but but those schools would start would end earlier than placentino does now but it would still be an hour later school it is now right what what you're proposing is is like 85 minutes earlier for placentino that's correct I think that in and just to hear all sides of it CU I I'm hearing parents concerned putting their kids on the bus at 6:30 that's an issue Athletics at the end of the day so if we have a happy medium where high school and grams go first sub 8:00 the elementary school le placentino with Miller will start before they're starting now is that the happy medium for everyone no if you're asking the question well I mean sorry just was high school middle school go together first s 8:00 what time I'm sorry just put in 8:00 sub 8:00 and 8:00 are very different yeah 8:00 start that's the big number where battl then that means that pleno Miller don't start till 9 that's too late for them it's not does not match with the time that's best for them well no because we start no one saying no one saying with business no cuz we start 7:30 and then 8:10 the the high school starts so that's 40 minutes only so it's I'm say high school starts at 800 with Middle School wouldn't Elementary start 8:40 8:45 55 minute run in the morning 850 850 850 I guess so it's still 5 minutes earlier than pastino's going now no it would well the the end time would be 5 and 8 minutes or so later than than than they'll be getting out later out lat it would solve other problems obviously I know that you know uh the Miller teachers have expressed you know yeah I mean I'll be honest like I know few years but I don't I got to get to work I don't like the idea of dropping off at 850 but I know other people are thinking through that as well so like again I think what we learned through the committee out of anything was no matter what we do we're impacting a group of people probably in a sub so so so just just hypothetically Cynthia what would what would your thought about this be about what specifically well I mean you want to start the high school M later than :00 this is starting to high school no later than 8:00 the high school is getting out at approximately the same time that it does now um right so my concern about that is just that that starts placentino and Miller late late which is not their optimal time it starts placentino 5 minutes earlier than it does now okay but Miller is not so we're shifting we're shifting Miller by by um 80 minutes which is 5 minutes less than we we're proposal is to shift placentino earlier yes so the impact is is you know the same sort of minutes different significant but they're paired with with Miller which is what a lot of parents wanted them to doy this one impacts the least number of schools right every actually makes placentino better high schools meeting and Adams close to where we want it to be Miller is the only one Maj and then the Miller teachers and students are going yeah it's a lot it's an impact for three grades large yeah it's all it's an impact for all three for Theos to there's yeah placentin I don't think that's true High School's impacted I think to align with the current contract there's going to be a change for every school and each of these different proposals shows a bigger shift with one school versus the other so I think we need to understand from the community um which is the school that would be least effective or benefit the most from these different proposals yeah so going back to our surveys and going back to the proposal that was shared by our administrators are we going to get very specific in the survey with times like this the pairings on the times I think we should I think we need to I we need to share the different options that are proposed and understand the impact I mean this this is a very different um model than starting it's I mean it's only 15 20 minutes but it's a very different look to it but that's why this becomes an option and then what we were just looking at is another option mhm the two Elementary is at 7:30 because we know the high school can't get out past 310 so 258 is going to have to be right I'm saying we can't we can't we couldn't do this with Miller and Peno St first go to 8:00 right that's just would kill the high school so so there almost there's three options we're kind of meeting in the middle but this is sort of there's is sort of three options if you will right there just Happ to be two that are this structured but 15 20 minutes is different I don't know why you need to do third option I know what you're talking about's the third option the third option is 745 yeah okay flipping do the principes have feedback on this option that they want to share with us now which option are we the one that's before us can can people at home see what option we're looking at um a start of day for Adams at 805 a start of day at the high school for 8:00 a.m. an end of day at Adams 243 end of day High School 248 start of day for Miller and placentino 850 um end of day Miller 328 end of day placentino 325 um is there any feedback on this I we've met some of the goals of the pairings where you're on the same schedule y um we've addressed um the issues with trying to get the high school out by 3:00 um for activities and after school jobs but what is some of the feedback on this pairing well it goes back to where Jamie says if the kids are dropped off and no parent is at home then they're going to get brought back and that extends the day till probably 5:00 uh or later uh because right now they get dro Dred off and they're coming back to school at 5:00 um so that's an issue at the end of the day I mean it gets dark right now we all know 4:00 right now we getting there I think we'll have increased cars on campus because um kids will not be getting home our latest runs they'll be getting home at 4:30 cuz we're going to load the buses get them out I many of kids falling asleep on buses so you know it's 10 minutes later a dismissal at 3:25 is 10 well it's not 3:25 I have to wait till Miller loads but but to be fair 328 so they leave at 3:30 I mean that's not the latest run 50 minutes to an hour um I mean our kids have after school stuff too right like so they're taking gymnastics they're going to baseball practice they're doing all those things but they're not changing I already have people pick up early because of our dismissal time okay I'm just saying that there is an impact on that too but by in high school earlier too to to to Miller point one of the things that that was talked about in 2019 when the last St time was going through was that a lot of not a lot but there at least some uh families that that use their high school student for for child care so by moving the high school before Miller as well that would allow high school students to provide childcare for Miller students too I would love that to be a question to be honest with you because I actually see more um Miller students are watching the placentino students that I'm just being honest like that that's most of the time the kids are coming back it's because the Miller student didn't go out to get Theo student off the bus so I haven't heard much can a Miller student get a placentino student off the bus technically after kindergarten a student can get off the bus um our that is what our policy says and I think the other issue would no matter which time you do it's either they can help watch kids in the morning or they can come watch them in the afternoon there's always going to be a child care issue from all of us who P kids you either are dealing with child before school or childes have on the late bus schedule too you're probably pushing late bus at least another 15 or 20 minutes later than where it's now again they'll we can always have a late bus it's just when just when right very um the other thing too just please whenever you put the survey together these times are ishy times you know 8 8:00 well I'm just saying it's it's a these times are approximate don't don't turn them into Granite because they promises that these will exactly we vote though to to keep going with yours um I've got probably 60 staff members that would move to 85 90 minutes later I don't know how many of them have jobs afterwards or you were talking about that later that that was a staff effect moving placentino earlier isn't going to affect the placentino job offer right uh before school so if that's out there as a consideration that is another consideration to have there because there are staff who do have jobs little more I mean attention part something he's trying to talk no but moving someone an hour and a half earlier um they're not going to have a job before school Prov care I'm not so the feedback that I I've asked my grade leaders to to talk to the teachers and this is not formal so I'd love to see a survey and like to come forward with wonders and I think the biggest thing is people need the gift of time so if someone needed to change child care or that piece they would have nine months to do so so if we're we can't make this decision in August you know that's really unfair to someone so I think that um for a change of any schedule we need as much time as possible so people can figure out their lives well that's why I mean that is why we agreed to the January no I know but you're saying the impact of it um you know to Mr Kim's point you know the later we go impacts you know our our teachers too like I've heard like even the shift from where were we Keith 315 to then 320 and now it's would be 325 you know our our after school meetings would run till 4:30 they have you know there's we're in a lot of people no matter what decision to Frank's point we're impacting everybody so you know I don't know if there's a perfect piece um you know around the sleep studies you know they're it's real research it's it's not soft research um you know and I understand that there's a lot of variables in it I I just don't want to discount them and I think that middle school and high school and you this scenario they're getting out 10 minutes earlier right versus how much later youro placentino staff would be one of one of the other and I I'll keep my mouth shut after this um we started with the safety of the kids yeah and so you know whatever scenario you look at we were concerned about our kids being on the bus with middle school and high school kids right and so that's the that was the ultimate conversation that we started two weeks ago uh that goes to Frank's point that you know should there that's what we're concerned about and this is not including that it is but you before you did not want to make the decision about because you wanted to look at start times our real concern is our kids riding the buses with them that you know put us on the same bus run and then figure it out but don't keep going around that we want to figure out Middle School out here high school out here our concern is our kids being on the bus with the middle schooler and high schools you want us to give Keith an answer yes no I I think I think to his point is like the reason we came the first time was around the recommendation of what was developmentally appropriate for kids so if an option um I think Dan you talked about an option of plus and I don't know like not I think there's been like thoughts of like different combinations of bus of like so if like I think if Miller went with Rams if that was the same start time that piece it's a concern for us just developmentally of the kids on the bus at the same time right there was a there was a high school placentino sharing a St time but different buses yep and then Miller and rs yeah and I think that the concern was that you have to have more buses to doer kids we have on the bus so are we willing I mean because depending on with the survey results come back people may hate all of these um but but but for the sake of of moving forward at at this time and and and if it blows up then we just meet twice a week um you know and and you know through through you know um maybe maybe consider something else the other alternative option with high school centino Miller and Rams together still is is not developmentally appropriate there's no combination of groupings other than Miller and placentino together and Rams and high school so now it comes down to when do they start okay so therefore do we want to take a a vote to sort of move forward with you know plastino mil at the same time and the high school in Rams at the same time and then survey the community to figure try to figure out what the best approximate start times for for each grouping are I'm comfortable but to lock something in we to be specific about what times we're looking at well I think there there are three three options three options right and then there's also nothing that always has to be an option nothing is not an option making no changes is not an option because because if we name no changes can be an option then we need to give the money back for the buses and we'll have people getting out well no change is still 10 to 15 minutes later correct and and that's then somebody's ending at 4:00 yeah right no we can't do that right yes which is not ideal because we haven't made any other changes there's no yeah right so so so no changes is is not an option I don't think no change as an option yeah don't even put it as no it's not um I do want more certainty on those bus run times before we vote and I think with what we just proposed I think they should be able to run a bus model and get us more certainty on that's time we need to get a survey him working on the bus we're not voting on on on anything final we're just voting narrow down for now even we can even say at this moment we're narrowing it down to this and we're praying that that the bus model works and that we need more than prayers agree withs but I I I think we need to now just knowing from the committee and how frustrating I've heard feedback and I was there too many options just drive too much confusion like I I think we've nailed down at least a guideline of like a not 7:30 and can't be past three for high school at least now okay we know that we want to group these two together now what what can we play around with this like we're doing right here what are these options you have the most egregious you have the elementary started 7:30 high school's out at 258 great you have this option and then if you want to put the third option where high school starts at 7:45 let's see what that looks like those are the options you have to have the rank maybe you have yeah Force rank like which one your most isn't that what I said the three options sure d yes let's focus Less on the what we're debating here and more on the survey because the survey is going to tell help guide us to a decision it will not necess tell us a decision but guide us there right but the and but the the survey I think we just want to I mean not that maybe everyone reads it but I think there needs to be some sort of um narrative that goes along with it pros and cons to different I think yeah okay all right so are we ready to vote to narrow down the pairing [Music] yes yes okay being said I will then entertain a motion to that the community's recommendation going forward is at this time or is to pair uh the high school in Rams and ventino and Miller second okay any further debate all in favor that is unanimous I anticipate that being the last unan vote we take on this matter um maybe not who knows let's get the Fe back and give time for consideration so can I ask a question of Mr list but while you're still here is any of what we're doing with this impacting the other important work that you're trying to do with scheduling or okay okay so then um I think we should also just vote to empower Hillary Sarah and Don to put together an and send out a survey to the community um after the H after yeah after Thanksgiving um but as as as soon as possible after that well I mean nobody's going to pay attention to it if you try to send it out they not of course but like set it out in terms of and also I would I would just request that we we look at may work with them M cloud or if you guys have access to it I I don't want to say a Google survey which anyone can can access and and the more we kind of tailor that only the people that the survey receive the survey are able to resp response per recipient can't be forwarded I that's where it will get forwarded people will abuse it I've seen it um and we want you know true data to work off of so we do need to figure out those parameters I think I think let's figure out the survey like I think this team I think parameter we we had somebody that helped us do that do you know what I mean like that was when we did it before we'll have I I think that's important but but you also have families that have three different kids in three different SCH it's important to hear from them on on that as well the case though that they need to factor that into the vote they right versus having three different votes Sol right there's one solution that so even if the family has it's only going to have yeah they're only going to vote for one Sol I have three votes pick all three then whats best what about the student piece I definitely think we need Student can it be the same survey or do we need to tailor it you're choosing like what stakeholder you are yeah you know are you are you a student are parent whatever but then you can you can aggregate the dist to students from the students i' almost I mean I know it's a little harder but i' almost rather a few quantitative things and then a little more qualitative uh Stu that would be but you guys decide the one thing the one thing when we send out when you ask Dan Dan to send it out just make sure he does not send it to that Community list the people can subscribe the one where non parent Guardians good it has to it's a separate list he can he not HPS list just just the parent Guardians and staff can we send it out in our newsletters no because we the way we're looking at it if you send it out the DL will will determine who can answer it if you put it in a newsletter and someone can click it you're going to get people to be able to respond M everyone will receive it directly yes staff receive it yes that's the problem the enre St is receiving I can students right same issue well if we add them to the approved list they could answer it even what if it's a survey that's only open to the HPS community for the students anyway students and staff right because then somebody from outside can't submit it it's a Google form exactly and only one resp only and only one response which you can set it to that has it work for parents parents is separate yeah for staff you can do it to they you guys figure it out time frame is are we looking for this data um prior to the Thursday December 12th meeting so we'd like to close this probably by what are we thinking that day no I was thinking close at December 11th um in which case working backwards do we want to have this ready to roll by December 4th to give people a week does that seem reasonable the well we'll try for the the yes we will try for the third but the hard I'd like to can we said the deadline to be the 10th so that we can do something with it before the 12th no if we do the 11th and close it on the 11th enough time the holidays and how dare we you look at at the 11th at night why why couldn't it at like 5:00 on okay just Eyes Wide Open on this like this we're getting to be a very busy time and I think that folks may be frustrated that they're not given sufficient time to review the survey and be able to submit a survey or ignore the survey or don't know because this happened before and I'm just saying like we don't I feel like we're rushing this entire process enough as it is that I'm I am worried about the backlash we we suffered before so do we want to repeat the same mistake or do we want to do something different I'm going to call people the international clock and ask them to put some more days in between now in January 1st well so I do think it's important we send up a survey with the DL but then also let's blast the message check your email for the survey right I think we can say that we should say that I think with with a couple reminders is is ample opportunity to I think we should look at to the response rate right if we don't get responses then what does this help right so you kind of we until we know right if we get a ton of responses and we feel sufficient on WE we'll close it when we say we closed it and I I hear you Cynthia but that leaves us with one meeting on the 19th and if we uncover something that we haven't officially created this problem but we still have to tackle it we created the problem no this no no no didn't AR this this was an agreement negotiated good faith with with the HF I don't think saying we artificially created this problem we came to we came to organically created no we we came to an agreement that was that was negotiated by both parties and and now we're we're we're living within the conf the parameters of the ne I I've given the fair warning is what I'm saying that I'm I am concerned that folks are not going to be paying attention to all of this stuff going on because even though it is what we live and breathe every day here as school committee members we're in the minority so I'm just saying like wait you do work between meetings yes D um so I just am cautioning you that I feel like if we rush through this we are going to suffer the con you're going to take as much time as we possibly but yes possibly can is like okay well cynth what day the 23rd 24th when days do you want to mean like you we don't know we may get a thousand I hope we do I hope saying that go let's get through this process before and let's recognize that date May move based on the respons can we title can we title the email what are we going to do with the gas station downtown no um nobody cares we get a communication I do think the subject of the email is important in your we care I'm sorry that is that was incredibly funny and I just I just have to say that for this this time around we're going to get a communication out you're going to likely blast it on hon happy hon well except those people won't actually be able to vote for make peopleware sur is coming I don't Barbara can could we work potentially I mean it's not it's not political right can we work with the PTO to help put it on P pages and check and make sure so we'll get on to Facebook through all the the different PTO pages and notal corre communicating okay so we can do that so check your email for this subject line about the gas station and answer the survey like that's what we need to say how many responses are considered sufficient no we're I think we should just keep it open for the full no we'll keep it open for the full but I think when we get to the end if we get 50 responses why would we use that data that's not really well just be you have 2,800 students you know you have maybe not double that number of parents and guardians but you have a signifant number of parents and Guardians and then you have over 500 staff so would you agree in just the last two weeks we probably received at least a dozen emails so survey is not the only um method of communicating with us people can certainly Reach Out by email right because they have may have word to say about this sure course they are I've received a few as we as we' sat here yes um MH okay so motion to to empower Hillary uh Sarah and and Don to create and send out a survey about the G station downtown sove not about that part I said so move before that um on the survey surve second second I'm sorry what yes we're voting on what we resigning what I'm helping all all those in favor about the killing me okay okay um now we need to move on to discuss what we would like to do as far as Forum um or uh um webinar what in add to the survey yes we don't have answers yet though right are we are you we can't do a webinar on here are what people want to do I think to be fair without having that that's what I'm saying the survey we should provide an open end to provide feedback as qualitative so that's one way to get questions that we can go answer uh if we get sufficient amount we should probably concisely speak about the options so through a webinar I think a community forum when we have limited options I don't know necessarily what a community form will accomplish other than doing one well it provides a good opportunity for the community to give you their their feedback directly Y and we do I mean we I think it's I think we said the community form because we felt we didn't have a concrete option now I feel like we have three options no I still think we need a forum I I hate to say this but I agree with something flying around the room but a forum or a webinar cuz there's two different like well I mean I I I'm that I'm open to the former webinar but um not doing on my birthday that's for sure what J I'm not even going to tell you like we're doing it on that day um and then but then I mean it does bring up so again we we are running short on Runway uh we have a general you know a regular school committee meeting on the 12th we could we have to essentially we're giving ourselves the 19th as a as a as a as a deadline to make a decision though I am open to meeting the next week uh especially that Wednesday um but no seriously I mean like when would we think that it is appropriate to to to do that between the 12th and the 19th I figur it have to Pi can we do the Forum on the 12th in the meeting and just move our regular meeting to the 19 what do we have for the no I don't want to move the regular meeting to the 19 well we still have other business I know what do we have for the next meeting let's meet like an a set of an hour like yeah it could be an hour of the meeting six or 7 for the Forum and then school committee yeah sah budget part two is that is that the only presentation F only yes we won't have the schools I mean we won't have the MTH study group recommendations that we're meeting that night so we probably come to the could we do that on the 5th which the budget the budget next week no I don't think people what else um we are meeting for Budget on December right so why couldn't we do it on says they won't be ready it's number spreadsheets yeah they won't be ready okay we'll have a I ask a clarifying question what's what is the Forum so before we were talking about a forum I think it was talking about like what they thought about the two schools going together um now we're asking about the and the in time the impact at the time before you get the qualitative well no I wanted I was saying we should wait till we get the data but then have a forum to present what we your findings yeah I think it's the community's really first hearing this tonight and they might have a lot of questions and while our survey is we're asking questions and they're giving us some feedback they probably have a lot of questions just like we peppered you with to tonight and we want to make sure people understand um the impacts well should we send out we could work on FAQ should we send out an email tomorrow just briefly highlighting that something will be coming in to check their their inboxes I could just do it either from from me or we're using the 12 to present the data and that's the purpose of a form why wouldn't we combine okay could that's what I'm saying yeah why would we do it twice to ourselves and then to ourselves community and then to the community again okay so then we have an ample time to digest what we've heard and what we've seen in the survey results to get to the 19th and then probably at 26 okay so we will do a form on the 12th would do we want to start when do do we want to start at 6 okay um before we before we lock that in can can the administration do a form starting the on the on the 12th so same day of the school committee meeting but starting at 6 um a math study group till 530 uh yes so I guess we could us that whenever we shut off the survey we have that that time between then and 12th and pull all that data together well that's why I think that the 10th is a better time to end the survey but um but all this is for not if we don't get the responses so again it all is going to based on that we'll get the responses okay remember one response per per email preferably one per family would be easy one per family yeah yeah well I guess one per you know they can't they give different option them that doesn't make any sense you can't I don't think that's so it's going be one email address do we have ideas for getting input from younger students is that coming from their parents I know but then yeah it's just the way you're going I think it's just important how you wait it right like so you're going to have high school students and high school parents um it might be a double like you're saying one it just might be doubly weighted in one way so I think it's important to um to look at the weight of younger that they're the representatives of their children as well and think of that almost as double the vote as well does that make sense because if not it's going to be I mean I'm just I'm I'm hypothesizing that it might very heavily if you just look at it in a quantitative way be heavily weighted in one way when you don't have the voice of a young child where that's their parent is voicing it for them we're going have to figure it out because unfortunately it's not like every parent has just one a child in one school right so you've got right they're going to make they're going to make the what's best they think overall right no no I understand but I'm just saying but we also to right you had said we need to split out the population so like looking at what parents are thinking versus students you can't really look at it collectively right versus staff you're going to have three different like what story is the data telling you right Hillary like what's our story yeah okay yeah separ for that reason even though you could Chang it on the form Google is fine for the staff and for the um students I think because you're going to only get the one inut on that you can set it that way I might have be a bad idea to do three different surveys like they're same service sorry but three distribution so you can EAS yeah and it's not self- select where gets little complicated all right well we'll leave that in in the cable hands there you go you got it um do you want me to send out a a brief email tomorrow no just summarizing they going do it you don't do brief I can do brief there's no brief with you 500 P 500 words or less let the communication subcomittee do it no no no no not with any detail any well we're not I think we should send an email probably tomorrow's hard with holid kind a warning email to say hey this is coming be on the lookout yeah nobody has any more question for the principl right we can let them' been here exed sorry I'm not give you more you have an edit button I told you the turkey dinner's coming at 9: I have um people hard what we have executive session yeah I do too okay so then let's move on um what we have more no we don't have any technically we had an update on the high school schedule change but I don't think that there is um did you want to briefly discuss the the the Rams principles urge thank you sure thank you Barbara so um I did send something out to staff just to let them know that this will be coming up and I'm certainly think we can be a little flexible we we haven't set any exact timelines in place um my plan was that Joanie manard would co- facilitate it with a principal and Mr list is going to be the Principal um I haven't we're going to look at the search that we did for Mr list and also for um what was the other I'm sorry when we had the uh student services director and look at that process so that we can build inls and Community input and all of that and surveys I will say I've already heard from some staff um just asking me if they could be surveyed sooner than later um because they would like to be able to give their input um for I think for the right reasons and um you know I explain how if we do do an open search which is what I've been tasked to do a full search would be usually the surveys would happen when you narrow down the finalists the the group would um interview narrow down to finalists and we would take those finalists and have them do some kind of community form and then potentially police survey staff survey the community at that point but I'm open the suggestions on that if you would like to glean um in input from staff beforehand um before you know if if it's not going to change the outcome of going through the whole process then you might want to wait to do the surveys but if you would like to see some survey data from staff beforehand that's you know something that we could consider as well I think it it makes sense to wait just to ensure that we get the pool of applicants that we want I think that the fact that we're doing a a search is not a reflection on on the the job that the that that Karen is doing it's just that you know we've sort of we're trying to sort honor commitments to do sort of full searches um especially given that given timing and everything you you have to make a decision quickly without really any Community input so um it's just important that we go through through that process and and it could very well be that it it just smoothly moves along but um yeah I mean I think no matter when we we just opened it and con certainly extend the timelines if we didn't feel like we had enough of a pool I will say when people perceive or perhaps know that there is a strong internal candidate it also minimizes the people that apply right many people just say I don't want to go through that process potentially become a finalist if not to say that the decision has been made it hasn't but um people do know and and you'll hear that in um things like masc when they present on superintendent searches and such when they know that it does often minimize the number of people that apply to begin with can you talk a little bit about the process that you're going through to make sure there's a diverse pool of candidates um like where what are the organizations that HR is reaching out to or posting the position yes so for now we just put it on school spring cuz been trying to get through this whole just get it up there but we have done indeed before um we don't get a lot of scrutiny with indeed sometimes we paid for um Globe advertisements and that doesn't really get us I honestly School spring through our power school platform um is really the best way UniFi Talent we have tried other avenues but we have not really seen um the pool widen and because of that people seem to know that that is the go-to place um and that's where we get our best interest again if we don't get a lot of candidates we have sometimes sent it out to other places but I haven't necessarily seen that change too much even when we've done that is there also a search committee the well there would be an interview committee yes so once we once we get to the process of closing the if we close up the applicants and bring them forward we look at all there usually what we do is try to narrow it down as an administrator team and say these are the ones we would move forward for people to look at their resumes because they have the qualifications and then we have the group narrowed down from there as to how many need to interview at that point definitely interested in in the role very much so and then the other piece is obviously um we would also have to reopen if if Karen were the one that received the permanent position we would then have to reopen in the assistant principal surgeon similarly we're not getting the number of applicants in these positions or in teaching positions like we had in the past lesson less people are finding you know the the challenges of administrative positions I think are keeping our options lower so the later you start those searches whether it's a principal search or an assistant principal search you are seeing um candidates um are less and less as it goes along you mean meetings at 8:30 at Night 2 days before Thanksgiving or not it's not a you know something you look forward to well Dr Jord has been telling me how happy he is with all the nighttime righted to an email to Don saying we could do morning like 6:30 right I'll do 6:30 in the morning so the Review Committee would be similar to what we had for uh Mr list for Mr list it would be comprised of of like we we always do um we try to have a couple of parents on there we would want one or two students on there I think Middle School have a lot of voice in this process as well just like our high school students we would have um we have obviously central office I would probably have another principal on there definitely have probably two or three teachers maybe at least three I think so I haven't looked at the old I'm pulling those together so once I look at what we did for Mr list and for Jess be search we kind of kind of stay in those guidelines cuz those both work very well okay you don't want to get more like 10 10ish is usually a decent number you start getting into 12 more okay anything else on that uh we are not quite finalized we thought we would be there for the hu contract but uh still finalizing a couple things so we do not have that um to go on so our next uh meeting will be December 12th we are not going to be meeting on December 5th right no one wants to meet on December 5th okay so uh we we do have executive session tonight um uh so I will entertain a motion to adjourn from Open Session into executive session from which we will not return uh for the purpos of conducting strategy sessions and preparation for negotiations with non-un Personnel or to conduct collective bargaining sessions or contract negotiations with nonunion Personnel to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining or litigation if an open meeting may have a detri detrimental effect on the bargaining or litigating position of the public body and the chair so declares as well as to comply with comply with an act or under the authority of or any general or special law Federal Grant in Aid requirements second okay this does require a roll call vote Frank yes Hillary yes Joe yes Sarah yes Cynthia yes Don yes and I am yes as well we stand adjourned I hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving