##VIDEO ID:XHM2JwnP9-U## uh good evening and uh welcome to the uh December 12th uh meeting of the Hall of school committee uh before we get into our normal business we are going to have a sort of open Forum on the the star times uh the uh survey was out for a week week uh we're going to go into details on that later but um right now is the uh sort of the opportunity for the community to uh ask questions uh make brief comments um and uh you know let us sort of know directly what you're thinking so um I apologize sound doesn't carry that well here but um move forward and please uh use the uh the the podium uh per Keith's request um so we get right into it I'm going to start and what I'll do is those on Zoom who who want to make a statement uh should just use the raise hand function I'll alternate between in the room and and on Zoom so uh if you could ra raise your hands now if you uh are are interested um that would be great so uh first up is uh is Barbara Ryan if you're make comments just try to we'll keep it to like 3 minutes no the Pod the podium bar we're going to we're going to start we're going to make you the podium it's we set it up we need to use it keep three yeah okay all [Music] right just give me a second thank you so much uh Barbara Ryan uh 14 Irving Place how good good evening thank you so much I first always want to say thank you to Dr kuska Dr manard Dr Jordan Mr P certainly our principal leadership Mr list M Manning Mr Dr sany um in my humble opinion uh I really appreciate what I see every day um what you do for our students and our community and it's uh been a long road through Co but you're pulling us through uh with all kinds of audits and strategic plans and um here we are and I'd like to thank the school committee for taking on this issue obviously people in the community wanted to hear it resurrected and it was and my wish and my hope is a couple of things that uh science is considered in the decision-making process I've sent a couple of e- ocation regarding particularly tween and Teen Health I a variety of um professional experience in my background but my passion is uh currently in public health um as well as the Pediatric angle to that so I hope you can take that into consideration in this decision certainly we heard a lot of teacher voices um and they're where the rubber meets the road um having led a variety of organizations um that's that's where it happens every day for our kids so I hope their voices are heard and considered certainly we have staff uh and other people who make the buildings go and I know that has to be a consideration I'm looking forward to hearing what the survey results are um a couple of questions I have again thank you for raising this issue and being so open and transparent about how we're going to get to a decision uh as a community with you being our elected um volunteers um couple of things how is personal bias um being looked at as you make these decisions as a committee individually and collectively how are you leaving that at the door how is again science informing this decision and uh a couple of things comment I'm really interested to see what this extra 15 minutes is going to do and how you may or may not measure that what does that impact who's going to decide where that goes what that happens I know it's 10 minutes for placentino and I hope our building leadership is able to um take that and then certainly the bus driver issue um it goes without saying that that is not a problem that all of you can solve yet um that is also a Crux of of this opportunity so again thank you um so what were those questions how are you going to keep personal bias out of the decision-making process as individuals who are supposed to represent all of us in this community to include our school Community um individually and as a collective and hopefully um I know you've heard from a lot of people in a lot of variety of formats but certainly this is the most public so that would be interesting to understand what really what is driving the decision-making process in this change and then certainly we you can't really address the bus driver issue that's going to be the contractor and then how is science really driving your decision making process and that's it okay thank you so much thank you so uh to to the bias point I mean I think that anyone can feel free to chime in but every member sort of is going to work through their process and um make their decision based upon the factors that that they believe are are more or less important I mean so I I I think we're looking we we're receiving emails I'm pretty sure everyone is reading all the emails I do apologize I haven't had a chance to respond to everyone's emails I I I've tried to respond to some uh but there have been there have been a lot of them um so so which is great don't it's great but uh it's hard to uh to respond to uh the others and and also find uh time to eat um so you know I I every every member comes at this with with different uh with a different uh perspective and um I think we're going to do the best job that we can to do what we think is right for for for children anyone else I think that was also one the benefits of the survey is is getting the community perspective and kind of looking at families that are not our own what are what's their experience been with the current start time with the proposed start times and also hearing from the students there were definitely some things in the I didn't have a chance to look through every single comment and there were some things the students shared that I had not considered so I think that will help us kind of understand our blind spots and and consider various perspectives in the decision couldn't the B more Hillary I think the survey is definitely eye opening and it confirms some things I think we knew through this process I [Music] we uh going through this process has also helped understand what the communties that the survey I think confirmed some of it and agree through the verbatims and the actual responses it opened my eyes in terms of some things that we hadn't thought about um so I think the concern around personal bias while always there I think this group has done a fantastic job to kind of separate from that as best K I think all of our Focus has been on what is best for students and obviously looking at the science was something that no one was looking to reinvent and revisit the idea of the science necessarily behind teen sleep children sleep and their best times for learning there's also the practicality issue that we have to deal with bus drivers there's so many facets to this and so getting everyone's input I think is really important I think I don't I'm not going to speak for the whole committee but I I read through every response and every comment um because it's important in our to inform our decision- making so we are looking at this with our eyes wide open and I don't think I was trying to rush the process but we do have deadlines that we still have to meet as well to in order to get our contracts going for next year so that's my two cents well I just say um I really appreciated there there were a lot of people who responded from and we'll get into the numbers um later but lots of families lots of students which was great um and teachers so um that was super helpful to be able to see again all of those different perspectives and and people also wrote lots of comments people clearly feel strongly about this stuff so it's it's really good to hear everyone's perspective so thank you for that uh sure yeah um I don't have any personal biases um having not gone through the school day yet not having a son within the system um I'm keeping a very open mind throughout this process um so I assume we're not going to be voting on this tonight so please keep your comments coming as we go through this process thank you [Music] y okay um is there anyone on the zoom who uh wishes to uh ask a question or make a comment okay uh you can chime in later too if you want uh Carrie hi Carrie propal Dorset Road um I know that the administrators came up with a plan uh that they all seem to back and to be behind and I hope that some consideration is given to that since there's a group of people who've been working in our system for years and they have a schedule that they really like and I hope that that is supported thank you is definitely a a strong uh factor in in everything obviously we uh we uh appreciate all the work our administrators have done and their years of of um experience and so that that definitely weighs uh heavily on the decision uh Tony Tony Sano 29 P Road um I'll be short and sweet as a parent I'll say I was pleasantly surprised to hear that we could have the elementaries and the middle and high schools go on the same schedule um as one of the former starttime bus route committee members I also feel like it was a slight procedural missed opportunity for us it was a very hard constraint at that time like an unmovable object and I do think we have there's a bit of a missed opportunity where we had teachers parents Administration all gathered together to be able to debate and discuss the merits of these different options and then try to come up with at least what would be potentially a preferred solution that could then be uh recommended it does feel a little bit like a lot of that work was a little bit for not maybe it raised new issues for you guys to consider which was a win um but it was a Miss for us to be able to be part of that discussion so the the survey that went out which again I'm I appreciate that you guys are U soliciting for input um those options that are presented on that survey those I'm assuming are the makings of this committee not so much like that mixed like group that we had pulled together you know previously so um you know my own personal bias right I have kids in in three different schools right now um I would potentially have juggled those things differently on that survey for consideration so and I'm sure there might be people in this room that similarly would have juggled it maybe differently for consideration so um you guys have put together options and that's what you asked for input on I'm sure there's there could have been other options maybe to for consideration so um so yeah I I'm I'm very interested to see what the survey is I do kind of wish that we could have seen that and then potentially had a chance to discuss and and comment as the public um so we're trying we're like giving our input now preemptively and then we kind of sit quiet and we're just observers after that so but yeah well as Joe said um it is he said it definitively though it's technically on the agenda we could vote on it but we I I don't think we we will um but assuming that we vote on on the 19th or whenever we agree to meet next before uh we go on break um there will be additional public comment so um but I was hopeful the the public comment now would not be about the survey results but would be more about the the subject matter itself so um but as as far as the work you did I mean I I think I this last time a couple weeks ago it was very important and I think we we've used that as part of our of our deliberations until after the commit that advisory committee had voted it it was still a rock right that still was not a viable option it was something that the principles have been have been sort of working on and batting about but there were a lot of hurdles and because it had been something that had been you know for voting for you know for for 5 years the last thing I think anyone wanted to do was sort of put out false hope and give people a false sense of something may be happening before there was real sort of uh belief that it was it was really a possibility so um I really appreciate the work that the advisory committee did um and would it have been better had we had that information so we yes um but we we we have a you know a timeline that we're we're working with so y yeah then my last thing would just be my own personal bias I this is potentially not a public uh not a public a popular opinion but I'm very much in favor of early start times and early end times as for the district as a whole I have a high school at right now um he's graduating so his his vote doesn't necessarily count here but um like if he was given the choice he would be going as early as possible on the high school side I know it's not potentially aligning with you know other opinions and data that's out there but um as a parent and on the parent parental bias and just like you're runting a household that everyone has like a thousand things going on um later ends to the district um is not super popular yeah that's it great thanks uh Lindsay Lindsay yevich 29 paon View Road so same same family setting we have kids in three of the four schools um the timeline thing so why right so a committee was formed it was formed because you thought it was really important to have different people talking and the constraints then changed why wasn't the committee reconvened so the recommendation could be from the committee and not just from the school committee um because without reconvening the committee we are looking at voting on this essentially at the 12th hour already if we votee on this on the 19th right and this decision needs to be made on the first but realistically with with uh you know winter break and and you know our desire not to to overburden the administration with having to come during during break or anything like that you know reconvening the committee would have essentially not been feasible with then and then also allowed us to keep the time frame that we were looking at okay and then is there a reason why the earliest start time in schedule a which is like the earliest District start time right so that's what schedule a presented there wasn't an option for that exact same schedule but inverted where the two the middle school and the high school start first is there a reason why that wasn't on the table at all because if you wanted the other two right if you were like gosh I'm someone that's voting for middle and high school starting um before the the youngest Learners right but I want an early District start time that option wasn't available yeah so I feel like um from some of the work that the committee did do the school bus start time committee um they gave us parameters such as this District day is not to start before 7:30 a.m. nor after and not end after 400 p.m. and number four was um high school and RAM should start no earlier than 7:50 a.m. so I think what you just proposed osed was the high school and Rams starting at 7:30 a.m. is that correct right that would be outside the parameters of of what that school start time group um had given us right those um survey stakeholders for feedback that was something we included in it the scheduling of schools should be thoughtful around um student sleep limit the impact on teacher retention and limit the impact on after school activities including jobs and extracurriculars but number three there was not to start Rams in the high school before 750 that came from the committee that had the constraints that no longer apply do you like that's the only point I'm trying to make is that ultimately that and I I came to a number of those meetings a lot of the things that were discussed if the conversation went a certain way it was tampered down because it was like well that's a constraint that's unmovable so to say like okay we're taking a recommendations of the committee as if they understood the the rules and then the rules changed right it it makes it just like a little fuzzy so being in the committee being here now I totally understand the frustration being on both sides yes it's frustrating in fact I'm pretty sure I pushed it two or three times around the elementary is going together um and was squash down every single time yes I think the point of the recommendation was because there were open questions around what could happen and we did put a recommendation I forget it now um on what school should go when we put the other constraints in because we said let's try to follow those so even though the rules have changed we still wanted to follow the guidelines the committee put forth cuz there it really shouldn't matter if the elementaries can go together it doesn't affect the fact that we still should acknowledge sleep times we still should acknowledge after school activities we still should acknowledge getting on a bus at 6:30 for anyone no matter how young is hard so I think those were the recommendations that we're trying to abide by which is why these options which you'll see are within like 30 minutes of each other presented because there is an option 8:00 for the high school Rams to start and that was done so that we could have an option where we swap them and there's pros and DET trackers to each of the obviously the options okay so so one last thing though too you know during during the override we said that that you know we committed to to all schools starting later than 7:30 the the principles put together a recommendation came to us that had a 7:30 start time we wanted to honor the work that they did and put put that out there as an option but I think that given that there no one was recommending putting the high school and middle school at 7:30 I think putting that out there as an option given what the advisory committee had had said given what we had said during the the the override um given all the work that had been done by by the previous committee uh in regards to to sleep and then and the signs there I think just made that probably a solution that was not really tenable to to to anyone [Music] okay anyone on Zoom check back in public comment from Zoom or questions use the raise hand function and you can do that at any time okay um Jess [Music] hi Jess Omen 116 Locust Street um I've heard a lot of comments today about um science and um basing your decision on science and I feel like that is probably in reference to the sleep study that was done um by the CDC um in regards to the high school students and I already emailed the school committee members but I just wanted to reiterate here that I hope you also take into consideration the recommendations of the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics for very young students who um typically the recommended sleep is 10 to 12 hours for those guys um and a 7:30 start time I know at least for my family um we have several things going on in our house including ADHD anxiety depression all of these things worsen when you don't get adquate sleep my kids sleep 11 hours now um a 7:30 start time would mean they need to wake at 5:30 which means they need to be in bed by 6:30 p.m. which is simply unrealistic for us and I think a majority of families um and I just hope that you will take that into consideration as you make your decision thank you no great there is a lot of Science and it's not just around sleep but there's a lot of science around uh you know kids after school activities and the ability to participate in different things for for social emotional well-being so it's it's science is definitely more than just a a start time I think this is a one of the the reports that is out there basically said that you know I think it came up with 830 9:00 is the ultimate you know right start time for for um for a high school but then it said but we but it but recognizing that this is a balancing act between making sure that you're you're you're doing what is best for for the whole child and not just you know one one individual point I think if we focus too much on one thing you miss the rest of it exactly thank you thanks we have yep and yes we we have read your your emails and November 21st got it Michelle I don't have my thoughts so might get next you're welcome I'm going to miss it though I know I know surve thank you okay uh Beth I don't Poli still need my address no okay um so I was a member of the school start time committee and we going through the parameters that we had of the 7:30 at uh no late no earlier than 7:30 no later getting out at 4:00 I was obviously representing staff and what I kept pushing for is the later the start time the later it was for whichever schools went last and there were proposals that were put up that had some school time school end schools ending at potentially 3:45 and one of our huge concerns that we had on that committee was students would be getting off the bus at 4:45 almost 5:00 and I kept pushing for a 7:30 start time I've been at Miller this is my 28th year at 29 actually 28 as a teacher and we've had set the 7:30 start time for the past five years the students come in energized ready to learn and again thinking of whichever schools are going to be the second group they need to be getting out by 3:20 at the latest just for the students for the staff I've spoken to many staff along the way who have substantial financial and personal conflicts with being out past 3:30 I also wanted to speak on behalf of the um plan that the administrators put out they've worked together they know the Ines of the schools they know the challenges every day and the plan that they proposed was in the best interest of the students the staff and families and taking into account what would be the best for everyone so I just wanted to reiterate my support of their plan as [Music] well all right um check back in with zoom talkative group okay um we've reached the end of the people who pre-signed up um but this is an open Forum so if anyone else does do want to come up there you go hello I'm Autumn Smith I live at 109 Robert Road um I just wanted to speak on the issue that we had brought up earlier um with the 7:30 proposed time for the high school just want to say I'm a high school student I've I'm the class president of the junior class I've talked to many kids in our grade and while I can't speak for everyone I've heard a lot of feedback we would gladly start at 7:30 we'd rather get up early just get over a lot of kids are already up by then getting ready um we would I understand that also there's some things with getting out earlier with like setting up the tri valley times and how it might change some things um but just from what I've heard we would all rather get up at 7:30 and be at the school so yeah that's all I have to say thank you thank you anyone else anyone on [Music] Zoom all right well we will uh close the uh the open form sorry can I see one more or is that not allow you can tell me come right up is this a surve um L R9 Road one of the interesting things about the survey is you couldn't see all of the times until you took it so I I would just advise like what's really helpful in survey practices is not R not like saying how you felt about something before you knew the other ones and so I would just say as we do further designs it's super super helpful for the survey taker if you can see them and then answer that's it thanks we'll just blame Keith for that right just um hi my name is Claire I just have a question what was the I took the survey but what was the latest uh possible start time for high schoolers is possible it would have been the time we start now 810 okay so then would we still be like extending the day 15 minutes right yes so an 810 start time would have a 258 close time now for next year okay so just like overall why what like what's the deal with the 15minute extension as in why are we doing it yeah yeah yeah like you part of the um contract can I answer this I'm going um so part of in our contract with the teachers for this next next year is that we're adding 15 minutes to each school and 10 minutes to placentino that gives us more instructional time for the high school in particular it is going to help with a proposal hopefully for us to change our the block scheduling it's a plan um and without that 15 minutes I don't know that we would be able to achieve what we're looking to achieve I don't want to be speaking out of turn Mr list um but um he's I wasn't listening to you too late um um but that is one of the core reasons why we were moving forward with that so it's it's it's predicated on other shifts so that's why we added the 15 minutes it also gives us more so the schedule like would change yes most Away From the Block schedule they're two separate they are two separate issues yes but that was regardless though there's 15 minutes it's still going to happen regardless even if we don't change the block that was we had to put that in the count in the in the uh contract now otherwise there' be no way for us to do it later they're dependent on each other right while the schedule's not settled 15 minutes allows for more flexibility with schedule was also increase time on learning at all levels right okay um and I would just like to follow with like what Autumn said I feel like the earlier start time would be better like as a high school I can't speak for everyone cuz I know there are some conflicts like um swim and dive do practice practice in the morning so earlier start time would mean their practices would have to be earlier or they'd have trouble finding space in the for pools in the afternoon but I feel like except for that overall the earlier start time would be better because like it's not that much earlier it's like what 20 20 minutes earlier what if we start 7:3 it be 40 minutes oh oh no I was thinking never mind I was not thinking that but yeah like cuz I feel like with like the sleep schedule stuff like I I'm already up that early anyways to get ready for school at 8:10 like cuz I yeah so I just think the earliest start time would be best that's all thanks clor she's ready now come on Michelle we knew that she wouldn't be able to stop herself I'll be brief by a promise Michelle Hastings 142 hland Road um I am very much in support of our professionals they are professionals the schedule that they put forth I do think that there's just I really do hope that that's being even weighed a little more heavily one question I do have is in regards to is there any thought to the fact that if the high school goes first and I'm sorry high school and Rams go first and Miller placentino were to go after that is there any discussion about how are you going to get the um kids to their sporting things like those buses will be used for driving those midd placentino kids home and it's going to be I I mean I feel like that's one of the things we were talking about as being an important thing I know in the committee that we talked about that a lot that after school things um is something to factor in there and I just think that that's something to seriously consider like they we already have an issue with getting kids to their sporting events but if we're driving all the Miller and placentino kids home and then trying to get them to their sporting events they're they're not going to happen it's going to be a huge problem so is that something that is being considered or talked about is something that I believe we'll have more of a discussion on tonight and we're aware of um and you know considering how many buses we would need for each of the runs and then where those excess buses come from and and even getting down to you know what is the cost of all that but absolutely it's something we and if you can't get all those bus drivers is there like a I mean I I definitely am very obviously everyone's concerned about the best driver shortage it just is concerning that we can put all this out forward and then then we don't have bus drivers and then where does that leave us like what do we what are we doing then I'm not driving a bus I work with all your children I those those people driving those buses women men all of them they're amazing but I I don't know sorry that was my only thought couldn't let thanks Michelle thank you Michelle anybody else okay we will move uh on to our um uh our regularly uh scheduled programming um okay so we do have the so just added it's on the agenda under gifts uh we got them late but the CAC has generously uh uh provided a a list of uh gifts and it's they're in your folder um I think how many there are 10 10 um so so what I'd like to First do is just make a motion to amend the the consent agenda to include the the CPAC gifts under the gifts agenda item as part of that a second okay all in favor all right then I'll take a motion to approve the consent agenda oh hold on aren't we supposed to wait until start I was wondering that too we're really supposed to wait until s those are General guidelines saying some people may not be chiming in because it says we're starting I don't think time will be an issue yeah moving on plus no one wants to hear about the budget so we'll just go into that um okay so I'll do we have all right is there a second all right all those in favor all right carries thank you um we uh our student representatives are not here tonight um or maybe they're coming so I'll give them an opportunity if they come late on time hence to 7 p.m. I mean whatever just keep going run with scissors let's go I mean you want do you want to Rift for 20 minutes it's a single agenda it's not it's not like a I understand we can move on I just said the students aren't here so and they were planning us being here at 7: oh no keep straight a single a single agenda I know it's fine single I think could we if the students arrive post 7 we'll move around the agendas yes yeah we'll just revisit them when they come in yes as I just said I know okay okay Frank do you have any schol Comm comment no I can't win with you um and I can't with you at this time all right Hillary no thank you Joe um no I just wanted to thank everyone for their um their comments and questions this evening like I said please keep those coming as we uh deliberate and and think about this process but we closed the surveys correct surve still email no no I just wanted I just wanted to be clear okay Sarah comment I have one comment um I just wanted to congratulate um former School Committee Member three- term School Committee Member Stacy rafy on winning the humanitarian award and she got a citation from the state and I think it was very welld deserved Tina Hine um awarded her this award and congratulations to [Applause] Stacy okay thank you no comment okay um no comment from me either um is there anyone who now wants to Avail themselves of our other public comment okay good um we'll now uh turn this over to uh Mr B and Dr Jordan to go over part two of our budget which is the operational sort of side of the of The Ledger Dr Jordan uh so give everybody a second to kind of pull up in it's in the in the folder [Music] right special ed will come in January payroll somebody it's in the folder she was sharing got wasn't okay screen all right um as was just said said a second ago uh this is part two um this is not including payroll which is the first part that was presented on uh a couple a few weeks ago um and then part three which is special education costs uh will be presented on January 9th um when we return back from the from the break so this is kind of um the stuff everything everything else uh that exists within the the district overall uh you're looking at a uh within the things that are non-payroll and special education um projecting a 2.62% um increase from the the prior year that equates to about $140,100 um these are kind of our our M major areas if you look at um the uh the admin technology districtwide uh this is kind of your instructional technology last spring uh as part of the capital process um the I think Dr Menard presented on kind of the uh the cost of I ready I Exel uh with um Mr McLoud uh and there was a $23,000 Delta that was built into that that would be kind of like the reoccurring cost um and that is uh we are move moving away from star which is kind of built into our budget for about 50,000 uh and then this is the $223,000 that's above that um additionally to that that cost the third because it 23 $31,000 is what's listed there not 23 is there's a roll up of the AV accounts that are at the buildings that um aren't that are kind of being rolled into technology the district technology that's about $33 $3600 and then uh Additionally you just have your you know within uh School building education uh we have a lot of applications and subscriptions um at our building level we don't control those costs we just kind of really become very reliant on them and they they go they inflate year over-year uh and that accounts for for that cost um there um Additionally you have some just kind of you know our our increase in level one uh elll uh and uh building in um resources there uh and then um additionally if you go down to Athletics that's the 3510 um there is just kind of there kind of acknowledging um the the Middle School costs um you know it's it's typically under our current Student Activities is something that had been uh designed to be self-funded uh this is just kind of kind of offset that acknowledge the rising cost cost that are there um uh additionally uh you look at kind of utility services uh we just kind of increases in kind of rat for utilities and um Zoom phone uh costs as well so I guess if they're kind of looking at that when you've had a second to kind of take a peek at that if there are any questions about the part two budget what was the increase for this budget last year this part of the budget last year like points I don't want to misquote I know Keith's pulling it up on his fingers so like I have looked at us I think I want to say it was 88.2% but I don't want [Music] to I'll know 7: what I will say is that there was um our our projections based off of our FY 23 for some of our utilities and uh fuel costs were higher um for and the actuals in FY 24 uh came in lower that's why you're seeing some reductions um there um and that that that was a major part um of the budget increased last year it's 8.3 okay there you go significant [Music] slowing correct this is just kind of your standard Transportation non payroll non- special Athletics can you clarify what middle school sorry it's just the middle school I mean I would I would say that there across Athletics you have Rising you have Rising costs um in prices there I think that that um you know I think that whether that's a conversation for another day as far as Athletics in general but like we you know Middle School definitely has an area where it by Design was be completely self-funded um and it's not um and without having to go pursue the route of like raising activity fees this isn't a a reasonable amount to kind of meet that need and and they've been a victim kind of of their own success because the the cost of Transportation have really is the biggest driving factor in this whereas the you know the having a few more children participate raises X the cost of having more meets and more children going to those meets is like 2x so that's that's really been the biggest [Music] Factor 175 I can you um differentiate a little bit in the transportation budget line item it says the increase is 245 245,000 it says override adjustments to Nork Aggie Foster homeless can you um what accounts for what in that 245,000 sorry 240 yeah um yeah so we uh built in here is the um the just the total 275,000 um for the override uh but uh minus um some Chang in transportation that we have to what we've done up and down in norol agie and I can give you those numbers um we kind of the the Foster homeless um piece we Lo that lowered by about 40,000 where we had a stretch for a long time where we had a number of students that were under Foster or homeless and covering that cost that was built into the budget um obviously that could change but like it's trended that we it justifies us to lower that by about $40,000 um that said kind of Transportation in general is going up so U the noral gaggi transportation we're we're upping by about 10,000 that balance equates the the 245 okay thank you can you clarify the last line in the tuition at schools is that school choice um this that's norol gagi [Music] and we went through this in budget yesterday as well everyone good [Music] yes thank you Dr now obviously we're ear in the year do we foresee this impact like what we're seeing thus far changing this dramatically do we feel confident where we're trending thus far in the year this budget for FY 26 looks to be accurate say Keith and I were talking about this earlier today is that I'm the the Wy coyote the portess is the special education payroll pieces um this is more predictable um I think when we get into what we project with special education those are where you get into things that could go out the window or not and and kind of planning for that um and then payroll because it's it's such a large percentage 75% of our our budget um that's something that you have to pay significant attention to so we'll revisit kind of payroll what our projection was that we presented a couple couple weeks ago and then really what might evolve based on what we learn on retirements and different changes or whatever from from there got it just that the moving Parts here either fewer or less impactful um you know I mean we haven't locked in fuel oil prices yet that happens in the spring we do 110,000 gallons we're not going to miss it by a dollar even though we did one year um but you know that's true we did a dollar gallon not doll dollar a dollar gallon um you know we obviously have no visibility North Park agie yet I mean this early in the process we're putting out our best estimate Y in it and again doing it with Fidelity could they change yeah they will um but the the ideally if something is going up by x% something else will go down by y% the net of it will be negligible so and just for anyone wondering why we're doing this now if there's so much that can change and and there's so much unknown um the uh Town Administrator sort of set up a budget process for the entire town all Town budgets are due to the town administ I Believe by the end of January though the schools have received special uh dispensation to do it by uh the middle of February and so we got to work through this and then we do you know priority needs Dr cus puts it all together to make her recommendation and that's actually what goes to the Town Administrator at is a starting point but um and then we do the work so um it it may seem very early but in fact it is a it's never early right right on time it's yeah it's our normal Pace it's just I'm going just you know right when I mean when the governance committee came forward and really um yes when the governance committee came forward and was pushing actually for the budget to be completed actually earlier there may be somebody who's at this table who informed the the the governance Comm be that the the earlier you ask for a number the worse the number is going to be cuz we have to build in more push in then so a lot were people the St informed them of a lot of things I understand that but I can only speak for the one person who spoke that I know of yes anyway they they got a lot done um any any more questions we can go the whole history if we really kill four more minutes to go so it's special education coming up January 9th and that has a significant impact like payroll are we trying are we being conservative or we're building buffers in knowing where the trends are going meaning if we do have to submit a budget let's make sure hey we have some buffer it's always good to come in a little bit lower at the end versus say hey we need more money so how are we looking at it we we do track kind of where who are our big costs for special education who I mean and and what are some of our big costs um what are potential concerns that we have on the on on the radar um and then also kind of what are some of the trends in the state budget because that has significant impact for us as far as um circuit breaker and some of that Transportation reimbursement um for us so you you kind of budget projecting what um you know what's going on the state level but then also what do you have kind of going on inside as well so and I think too even though it's still uncertain if we budget too high then I'm going to have to present offsets for that because we already know that the town's not going to be able to come up with a significant increase this year given that we just had an override so yeah the offset's kind to come from some fine balance right you don't want to say you need this money now and and and Frank it's why we do carry revolving accounts a number of different areas you know we have a year worth of circuit breaker and things of that nature so that you know again if something I'm say catastrophic I don't want to be dramatic here but if something didn't go the way that we had planned in in the wrong direction financially we do have Avenues to go into yeah on the short term yeah got it January 9th will be fun we did make a commitment to to balance our budget to three and a quarter on a sort of a a uh on a um level service y basis absent unforeseen sort of cre things but so that's the goal that's the Le predictable budget yep that's why we try to get the latest all right um see that we're almost at the 7:00 hour we will uh we can go back to our student Representatives if you guys are ready and want to give give your update sure um we just had Tri winter sports this past week and last week they're done and boy class has their first awaken tomorrow and girls have their first game tomorrow we had a dec of mock comom on December 9th it went well and all the club members tested last week we had our pep Thanksgiving pep rally it went good um theater just finished their performance of Carrie the musical which went really well and now they're doing their student directed one acts which have started and auditions have been held the band and chorus concerts are this week and next week NHS students are writing staff appreciation letters um the NHS gift rapping event is next Thursday the 19th and it is being held in the high school cafeteria and the class of 2026 is doing a holiday candy Grooms [Music] fundraiser great thank you very much uh we can now uh move on to our uh central office updates sure a couple quick things um the last time I was here I didn't um have the update that um I sh I did share about project 351 it's the best program that our students have taken part in and our high school students Jay Patel and Sarah Mugi worked with our Rams teacher Dylan Nos and they attended project 351s annual Playbook Summit so they've done a lot of work um this is Jay's second year in that role um at the high school and then working with the middle school students it's been a really great program and it's free through the Celtics Playbook and then also um on Tuesday night we had our chorus students from Miller Rams and in the high school and they had a great night of singing there amazing students that night and today I just want to give an update just a testament to the collaboration between the Holliston Police Department the hollon fire department and our hollon Public Schools we had our it's usually it's about by annual that we've done um emergency preparedness training so the entire administrative team and members from HPD and hfd were in room 303 from 8:00 to 11:00 this morning working out scenarios and planning for safety procedures and emergencies that happen and trying to do scenarios together so that's always a great activity together it just kind of reinstates the efforts we put to collaborate with those two departments in the in the town as well thank you great um Dr M no reported this time okay uh Dr Jordan uh just that we this be the last um so we are hiring a new maintenance hired a new maintenance director that we starting uh January beginning of January uh and um uh our longterm a longtime uh maintenance director body CRA is retiring uh for us so I just I wish him well um and we're having some some overlap now so uh he's been here for a long time okay thank you and congratulations on his retirement but but are you really going to not talk about the the you know the the walls of Jericho and how they held well I know yeah it's great I was I was curious whether I was going to you know have that or whether uh Mr list was going to indicate it but um yes our our um our Auditorium walls the high school despite you know The Dumping that we got of rain um have held held well we usually would have been in what like feet of water um inside uh in this in the in the rain that we had so it's just fantastic it's a it's a big thing yeah could I add cuz I did forget I didn't I would be remiss if I didn't acknowledge longtime Educators um Dan JWT our grade board teacher at Miller will be retiring and I forgot that we will not see them after the break so I wanted to mention that tonight and also John po guidance counselor at the middle school have' been with us for many years and as I said I didn't want to forget to acknowledge them tonight thank you to uh to everyone who's retiring for all all your years of service um okay good all right moving on to the uh the reports from our our subes [Music] Communications uh policy our next is December 17th which is next week at central office at 4:15 budget budget had a meeting yesterday we went over part two um um and our next meeting is January 6th at 5:00 p.m. yeah hopefully there'll be an unul day [Music] um and then superer evaluation so um tonight in your packet are Dr Kusa goals for the 2024 25 uh school year um the superintendent um subcommittee met and reviewed over the goals with Dr Kusa um further we all we agreed that we would meet monthly with Dr Kusa to review progress on our goals um and uh they're in your packet to review if you have questions or concerns or things that you want to add otherwise I would entertain a motion hopefully for people to approve them as presented so are you the chair now too sorry go ahead um go ahead actually no sorry just go ahead and M it are there any comments or or or questions or anything that anyone wants to go over uh regarding [Music] the I did have one one question um in the goals that were in the packet so I see a student learning goal a professional practice goal is there I wasn't sure if I missed it a district Improvement goal so the dist we did District district goals are already presented at the beginning of the year thank you and there's this hers are supposed to align with the district will we do District first then the superintendent any additional questions all right so I will I will entertain a motion to uh approve dr's 2425 uh goals move by sopia second all in favor thank you thank you um Mr list do we have the internet yours is over there but you can sit where you want David a lot of D do we have the international trip stuff or we so I have yeah I have the now and I have all that so I just have to here if you wanted to I didn't want to see it that I thought it was going to be in our packet so I was no I just got it today from that's okay I apologize um self finally settled we I saying last time I talked about it we had to end up opening a second same trip because the interest uh ended up with 64 students uh uh signed up to go um but it's a a trip um to Japan um uh it's a each of the trips has uh the the trip uh this the trip to Italy coming up in April and then this trip to Japan is about Hands-On experiences um and uh we're going with EF Tours U everything's booked through there and um they visit the students are visiting cultural sites they uh get to they is a day at Disney um why not while you're there um and then there's a a all the trips that we take have a community service aspect to give back to the communities where they're visiting and so um there is a community service aspect of the trip as well but these are the the details of the of the trip and so we are we are you need a vote from us to just approve just approve y y do we get to sign up this check ch yeah careful what you wish for pretty sure you pay the sh have to pay to go too yes so about how many kids are interested at this point so there's 64 kids okay signed up or well they s they sign up yeah because once we got the first approval then we do the signups we kind of assume that we'll get the second approval um yeah is there room for you to add more I believe there's room the reason that um we offered these so early is because they break it down by month I think this one comes out to a couple hundred bucks a month right over the time just to give an opportunity for lots of students um one of the cool things that EF does uh that none of the other companies do which is why we use them is that a lot of companies give Kickbacks to teachers who plan the drips so we don't accept the Kickbacks instead it gets put towards scholarship for students so our first trip to Italy for every student we get x amount of dollarars and then we will have a pot from EF to be able to give scholarship to students so for this first trip we did not have scholarships but for this trip and then any future trips we'll have a pot of scholarship money to work from um it it's all determined uh it's all through EF so we don't determine the scholarship um but it's uh need-based and and there's an application through EF and EF also does offer students um the opportunity to apply for up to $1,000 in scholarship as well so um you know in theory you could probably be get looking at you know for a student who needs it $1,500 to $2,000 off the cost of a trip to make it more affordable when you're thinking about paying for that over over time and and when you say Kickbacks I believe you misspoke and you simply meant subsidize no you get fake trips give money back to the teachers who plan the trips it's a kickback they get paid okay but they're not allowed to our teachers do not accept that's what I'm saying so that so the money that'll be used that's that was the whole point States yeah we don't do that here we don't do that state ethics would not allow it yes correct that's good so we are not doing Kickbacks I wouldn't have said if you talk about Kickbacks it's fight so just I was well the reason I actually brought it up out loud and said is because if you ever look online if you I mean anybody who's online and sees ads EF Tours it very clearly says want to send you want to take your students we'll give you this like it's very public that they do that and so I just want to make sure people are aware that we our our staff doesn't accept those when they see those ads okay all right so I'll entertain a motion to approve the uh the the 20 2026 uh trip to Japan uh it's been on our agenda for about 3 months uh so so yeah um no I'm really excited that there's that many students that are interested in it I think that's I think it's a great opportunity for them and I'm glad there's some level of scholarship money available it's still a very pricey trip I would just say if there's ever um an interest or um there are some great domestic trips too where the price is substantially lower there's civil rights um trips where kids can go down South for like six to S days days and see major historical sites that might come at a substantially lower price just looking at this through the equity lens because this is a it's a high price tag but I am excited for the 64 students that have an interest in it and I'm glad there is scholarship money available but I am I'm upset this but I do I do think it's important for us to be looking at other trips as well absolutely for any community members that are that are looking to set up scholarship funds I mean this this could be a great thing for anyone want to made a nice big donation I mean if anybody's looking for a great Camp that's in Quebec Province and send your kids up for a month of Camp no I don't get back it's a great camp that my kids went to but it's in Quebec you don't have to fly there you drive there but I'm just it's our next thing yeah exactly so I'm just saying that that's substantially less like half for a month I'm just saying okay they're very open okay so you move did somebody move this I'll move it no no that was quite well taken cuz this is honestly when I hear about all this economic anxiety and then I think oh we're just going to spend you know it's like five grand for 9 days is a lot of money so I just kind B smacked by it I know okay still a second it okay who first did it I did I first did it but I just was I wanted to support Don's Interruption all in favor okay that passes unanimously all right Mr L so now the other topic that is on everyone's mind is do you have an update for us on the high school schedule committee I do um so we've been working for the past few months um to try to uh come up with um a a proposal to bring to to school committee um and so uh just today we were um able to we the hft was able to send out a uh survey um with uh five different schedules on it schedule structure sorry because they have some some movement you can do uh for feedback um from the staff um which is very exciting um it really moves the work forward um and then what we're going to be doing is sending out um the same survey out to students um and to families on uh Sunday and then in the letter that goes out with that we'll be inviting I have we'll have time during dsb this week um to meet with students to answer questions about what it would mean to have a different type of schedule um to answer questions um about the schedule structures and then I'll be making myself available for parents or family members um on Monday through Thursday at different times a couple of times after school and a couple of times before school uh for anybody who wants to come meet with me um this will be plenty of time for you able to come I I know it's a quick turnaround for folks to to think about because there is a proposal due um but um that proposal is then brought to the school committee for questions and to be looked at more deeply is also gives us time to talk to students and families again um and then again it goes to the the hft um for vote after that so there is time still in there even after that proposal to to look at it and to have some some larger discussions as well um but you know the goal is to be able to uh bring um a a schedule forward I guess next week because that's only time before break so Mr will you Liberty to share those I know you put a packet together for school committee but you have samples of what those would look like so I I don't have them on me um I can get my computer um and show the like the structures that I'm working on like the that I'm working on the survey for the students I mean I guess I could do that I could share it with us so yeah Pro yeah he can send it to you I don't know if he has access to to the to the packet but we can we can put it up there I mean first Inc work but we are December 12th at 7:15 um and the surveys is just went out today the survey went out to hft and then we'll send it out to to to students and stud and then by Thursday we'll be reviewing so I think it's important we see the options tonight just so we get get comfortable like okay what's out there and kind of aligns to the start time stuff um we really have one meeting left this year I think right Dan one more meeting this year just one right or are we meeting on Christmas Eve just one more meeting okay so not a lot of time do you take a short recess so I can get my together we we have other things we can we can you need some time to get your your thoughts together thank you okay so I'll so I'll do I I have to send it you could email it to me print copies I'll email I'll email it and then is it present is that I do that okay that's fine okay you're excuse for a second all right um not too long though I know you're off far all right so um while while uh Mr is gathering uh that um I just want to bring the the the town sort of Dei policy committee back we had sort of discussed the start times yes that's that's a longer conversation so we we we'll get back to that um um I'm looking for something short um so did anyone reach out to somebody find somebody who might be interested um I think the I got an email from I thought that was your job no you wanted us to reach out to people that's what I said oh I remember that well you know okay either that or I don't have anybody to do that let's see where's I think Travis was looking for letters of Interest through the the 16th uh then the select board was going to uh to decide but they had s tentatively set aside two spots for for school committee um or School Representatives it doesn't have to be us um again I think that you know we do have our own policy process um so I I don't and we have a few other things going on so I'm not sure committee members but again we we talked about uh finding anyone did anyone have any chance to have any conversations with anyone no okay so um we get a brief extension and and figure this out next week I I will go go back to drivers and ask him um to see if if we can get uh have till the 19th um anyone watching tonight um who who may be interested you can reach out to to us uh there's information on the town's website and uh I believe it was sent out in a email blast to they I've got a few it's on if you uh go to the uh I mean from you mean from the town administrator yeah well there no no not from lot no from the Town Administrator anything so if you if you go on to the uh the town's website so so town of hon. us under uh the uh what it the uh news there's a get involved committee members uh needed and the second one is the policy advisory uh committee and you can click on that uh and and get more information about that all right we're still waiting for uh for Mr list anything else we what's up yeah we do we can do the he c yeah we can wait for to get back so um I don't know if anyone has a chance to review the hu contract uh essentially um I can just give a sort of a brief overview unless you you'd like to do that um we agreed came to an agreement that it is Mo essentially similar to to what the the teacher contract was uh given there's some some subtle differences in the because with this the way this contract happened once you hit the top step you just kind of were getting a percentage on top of that so there were some people that weren't on the the steps anymore and so we made a few adjustments for that now everyone will be on the steps going forward except for two sort of grandfathered members um and then we also collapsed the athletic director with the um s SSA role so they're now on the same uh salary scale um one thing I did notice when I was calculating over the next two years I I realize that I do believe every member that's here currently by the end of the contract will be lined up on the steps just having to fall that way with construction and so then from from then on it will be just sort of like the other contracts where it will be will negotiate the the cola to to the steps or we can negotiate anything but everyone would get the cola rather than sort of off the The Grid and this this contract has a lot less steps than our educator contract for example so they they hit the top and then it was they were falling behind a lot quicker so we can we we can bring it back next week if you wanted more time to review it or um we can we can uh sort of ratify it tonight I know you had mentioned the ad is in line with ssas that also includes an increase of days right so the the last contract um we negotiated we increased the ssas to 205 days but they didn't had not requested that for the atletic director so this time we aligned him apply the request but yes that's that's an important PSS was hire so yes so he's director now has five additional work [Music] days does anyone oppose ratifying this tonight no okay uh so I'll entertain a motion to uh ra ify the successor uh uh hou collect a bargaining agreement for the uh this is 24 to 27 and um yes move by joh second all right we'll do a roll call uh for this have to do that for colle bargaining so Frank yes Hillary yes Joe yes Sarah yes Cynthia yes Don yes em yes as well so that is ratified um while we're here we I I I do not didn't we have a someone for maintenance uh so I um yes I received it Oh I thought I thought we had appointed someone for maintenance but not for nurses not for nurses yeah I don't I forget M you're M okay so so but I don't think we've done one for for for uh for nurses I don't we don't have it on the agenda so I don't want to technically do it tonight we'll do it on since we're going to meet probably on the 19th we can just do it then because I Mee January right okay I'll just let them know short agenda I think there going to be the is going to be the the start times with some potentially keep you know bookkeeping type of other things but yes and then the duration will be the length of deliberation does anyone have any interest in in working uh uh with the administration on on the uh the nurses uh request this should actually be a really quick one because they already have a contract it's just with the changes to the teacher contract it will impact them so it'll be should be to quick so we'll put you in we'll make it official next week but but you can't back out now with think all right Mr list you [Music] uh are you ready I have it [Music] are are you going to forward it or present it I put on can make that bigger a little bit bigger thank you nice when you have the touch screen you can just move it up so as everyone's aware um from my presentations last year um and then talking starting in the start of this year um there were um issues that need to be addressed with within our schedule um namely um really our student access to uh programs and classes and opportunities uh additionally we needed to create continuity um across content areas and so looking at that the committee um really looked at different this these are different structures so when you look at the minutes you look at the times I don't like things can things those are those are movable pieces in some ways you know where where minutes can go um so this is just a way to to make it sort of easier to to read um when someone's looking at it especially when we send it out to students it'll give an idea of like what what a day of a flow of a day or a week or time would look like um so you're going to see different schedule structures so this first schedule um keeps the the dsb in place um which is really important for our teachers and our students um when you see Monday through Friday could also be a rotation of one through five because if it's like this year where we have our you know only a few five day weeks that would cause some issues uh but if you just did like a one through five you could also just rotate them through um so what you'll see here is that it is uh a through H which means there's eight uh different blocks that students would have courses in um and that in this case they're 66 minutes long and they meet three times within that cycle um currently our students are um me meeting every day for for sorry for 77 minutes um and even with the 3 days here um you end up with a few hundred extra minutes of time on learning um that's helpful from the 15 minutes and just from the percentage of time that the the students are in classes so if you just take simple math here like right now they go for 90 days 50% of the time so three out of five days is six you know ends up being 60% of the time and then you take the minutes so it's it's just more ends up being more time um on learning and as I said minutes are movable in there the difference in this type of schedule um has to do with the X block as you heard from the students we talked about start times for the buses is that they're really busy after school they're you know to take tests to do activities to do meetings um when you have something like an X block you can start to build some of that within your schedule um you can have time with your school counselors you can have time to do meetings you class meetings that is a decent amount of time um you can take tests you can work with teachers you can have we have like a jam band they can you know there are things that happen in the school that people probably don't realize um uh these like like Deca those type of opportunities um and you can do that here with something like an X block um and it really acknowledges the fact that we're not seeing as many students after school as we used to um when it when it comes to those things so uh it's just another way to support that there and then another piece of this schedule is there is an additional uh um time for lunches here are down to two lunches of 30 minutes each Cu uh right now you can see the parking lot when students are coming back trying to get their their food it's it's a rush and so a few more minutes on lunch just thinking about safety of our students um and and when they leave campus um and so you know as you look here again you can the rotations of of of periods can change this is just an example um the meaning like where the letters go but this is that's one that's one schedule um and feel free to stop me if you have question questions I may not be able to answer them too just so days ago this is um for the semester like so you'd be having these all year it would look classes would run for a year or a semester a year or a semester not a quarter not a quarter thank you so they and there's eight different classes students would take in a semester or year well I mean eight different periods so you could have like if you had five classes that ran year long and three ran half you know that's 11 so one of the things that um is is really great about hollison high school are the amount of electives and opportunities um and you know when you look at if we want to keep those opportunities um we need to do that additionally when you look at um students um who have learning supports in their schedules that takes up a lot of times an entire period and so if you start to offer like let's say like if you just do it simply like English Math Science Social Studies World Language PE because that's a requirement of the state then you put you know then you put Learning Center in there if you only have seven courses where is that time for the student to do what they what they possibly love or care about in the Arts or music or or science electives and that so in order to to put that piece of equity in there then you know that that's what you have to look at eight how does this compare to other districts in terms of the of course flow um and how this breaks down across uh different days the majority of schools now run seven periods are running SE like a seven drop two or a six and one or or um that's the majority there are a bunch of schools that run eight um and again it has to do with the the piece about access and what you're what the students want it's really about values at that point um and what we value for the students um in in terms of case you know most students across state are taking as I said the English Math Science Social Studies World Language and then after that are those elective courses where the case U it also you know it which also some people would say is good some people say we'll bring up it of challenge which is that it gives access for students who want to take more AP courses um you know within their schedule this allows for that um it it allows for some you can mess with like the letters and where they go you can create structures around right now it's like if a student wants to do an internship they can only do it really for like a term so one quarter in one block but if you're thinking about year-long classes and again where the letters go you can move around but you can start to shuffle things around in ways that allow for students to do internships and and for longer periods of time and set parts of the day so so um right now our students just one or four terms they would have a pe/ health class right so 77 minutes just one term in this you envisioning they have it for half the year yeah semester yeah semester um and then an internship that they have just one term they might then have for two term they could have for the entire year I mean they could have for the entire year so so xbo dsb so one of the things that Mr mad and I are looking at are we we already know did dsb is a struggle um and looking at ways to um to have students through Power School and through a secondary program say where they are going so dsb by having something like an X block it really allows dsb to be what a directed study block for students it really allows them to be in a location for that CU right now the way dsb is the catchall for everything um and you know looking at a schedule to have a space where as I said you can do class meetings and you know that that's the that space for it not dsb where they're supposed to be getting extra supports um in classrooms or if you're doing as I said the like right now if you're in dsb and there's the ban there's the chorus there's special ed support there's the the jam ban there's getting breakfast there's get like there's a hundred different things going on all the time um and so it it it struggles to then act like it should which is that directed stud block support for students question on the exit block you look at day four good over an hour and a half of not assigned time um all assigned Xbox will be assigned well they they'll like the program we're looking at you can actually like student can you sign in you take attendance okay to it so it would be aign so they would be required to sign up for something or you're required or we can put in so the other part of these programs that allows is you can look at okay this student needs intervention or need like that you can start to assign withams and that is one of our like honestly one of our struggles right now is that it is not assigned like kids students can go you know to the space that they want to go to that um and so you know we need to be able to support our students if they have need certain types of interventions it's a flexible period not a free period correct yes yeah it rotates yeah and kind of to expand um I I taught under was Mr principal under an Xbox Tye form at an international Balor school that's um high school and that's where we did a lot of our project based learning pieces so that's where IB fell like where you would do um whatever that project would be it's where you kind of have a lot of like all handson deck so you can have classes of like six or seven kids sometimes as far as that structure I don't know what we would do here at the high school per se but that was my experience with that uh Xbox was an opportunity for for either Project based learning but also like other exploration in and services that we can provide as well the the schools that run X block the original point was exploration block that was what it was that's where it came from that's why it's called X block is it's exploration block is what the original term was for then it's changed into sort of flex block is now what a lot of them called um but so yes we yeah they do yeah a lot of private schools do yeah to the next one can you say a little more about um where the supports or the services for multi Learners and students of disabilities will follow in the regular well so again the reason for having eight versus seven is it just it falls in a class period okay and then it doesn't take away so a student you can have your learning support and still have banned right or electives I mean it it does mean that you have one less elective but in other schedules where you had like seven you wouldn't get any yeah okay you wouldn't get any ele so that's why that's why the eight was very important to the the committee on this you might get a out of keep going uh so this is um another just another waterfall type schedule um again keeps the dsb um what it does is it's three out of four days for 56 minutes um and so it's you know what we're looking at again are different structures for for schedules um this one has six a day but you would see you know you see students three out of every four days um so there are just you know again it's about what what what we're looking at for the students and their feedback on that and teachers some students like the time in between classes you know between seeing a teach a certain class and others want it back to back so um that's just another structure that go that has come out and are 56 minute long with a shorter dsb um but again you have to you pull minutes from different places you want DSP a little bit longer you take a minute from each class like again you can those are we want to understand more when we're asking about the structures that they that and how they feel about those because then and then you can sort of mess with those a little bit with him would still be semester semester and year for yes year long and semester and right now we have three lunches and you convert down to two and you have the space we can get everybody fed and we have a lot I mean I will say the hardest days are like when it's like raining heavily or when there's snow that is more of an issue just because the kids are go the majority of our Juniors and seniors are are taking the opportunity to to leave campus so um and I just I I really do think you just watch them come sprinting in down the sidewalk there um that extra I don't know if you want to speak to an extra five minutes for lunch um so and also it's like for our teachers too like to get have extra five minutes of lunch to like actually breathe so uh you know it's an important piece to look [Music] up but dsb there is much shorter right dsb is much shorter again just because the length the timing of the day but as I said with any of the schedules when you look at minutes like if if when looking at it if it's everybody if that's feedback right um we'd like we like this structure but dsb is too short you start to like take a minute the minute you can take like one minute from each period and then you're talking about it's a 30 minute DSP so like talking about increasing the the time for lunch that increasing the structural time yes on yes in all of these yeah cuz even when you're remember there's always these things like passing times when you remove something or when you there there are ways within a schedule to to get back time so there it [Music] is so this is a uh five out of eight so again it's so it's like that first schedule you saw where if you imagine the first schedule that you saw and take that out over eight days um and then the reason there's no like X Block in there is because the math works out five times 8 40 and so it you need do that's like you five classes eight so the the math just works out as the rotation hits to not to not there is no extra Block in there yeah so yeah when you get yeah so it's the five out of eight so it's an extra 2 and a half% I think maybe somewhere around there not yeah it's like something somewhere around there um but you know there's some extra time on learning just because they meet more often in in the cycle um again the these were all schedules that address specific issues that we have in our schedule currently and look to to meet the needs of the students and the teachers um and is the survey to H the hft surve same as the family student like one of the things the discussions are a little bit like yeah but it's they're basically the same there might be a word change because it's to teachers versus students but like it's the same questions I think all this is It's not that were selecting one of these these schedules or whatever it is they're very different they're well they're actually there's some that are very similar but like there are things to learn and gain from the feedback on these different types that may result and yield alternative [Music] it's really you're getting you're getting when we get all that information based on these structures like we had to find structures that met the needs and so once you do that it is much easier if you find a structure that um has a lot uh behind it that you can then build off of that so one of the things I noticed about these three is that they um there's equal time for each of the uh eight blocks over the course of the 4 days 8 days or 5 days did the dis did the committee have any discussion about are there certain content areas or classes that we need more time for and that we would prioritize you know maybe a block is the same across all five days but h block is only three days does that make sense yeah no I know what you're saying yeah so like there are some schedules like that that exist um the the initial feedback from a lot of our teachers was they wanted longer like long long enough amounts of time um but didn't really like the idea of the like long and then short and then long and short um type classes or to have that P I know I know what you're saying yeah so one of the other issues with some of those is when you're looking at AG so like within like a seven it's actually much easier to create those than it is within an eight um when you're looking at the structure components of the amount of periods and then the time with how how long it takes to get through a cycle does that make yeah so kind of a followup when you're looking at your student data are there certain um content areas where it's uh it looked there's trends that we need more time on student learning in particular content areas versus others I mean across the board I would say that our high need students when you look at the actual data like our high need students need time on learning across the board like that was very evident when we did the um presentation on the data like when you saw our our our non High need students like they were you know you were seeing you know the the you know meeting expectations in mcast you see um a lot of RP scores but like if you look at RPS right now like most almost all of our AP courses sorry it's always like just trying to say it in a way that everybody understands an AP P course runs three terms so that's the equivalent of a year and a half that they're getting and our highest need students are just getting a year in in a given class so like you know if we're really looking at that way like the the students who in theory wouldn't need as much time or getting much more time okay and so that really is it's really I I would say that instead of looking at it is is a course based need of time of learning I think there are there are subsets of students that need the time and I would also argue they need time to synthesize that information like having it in a semester base it's a lot of information to take in a short amount of time that you know then if you don't have that you know say you have math your first semester of your freshman year but then you don't have another math class to the second semester of your SEC of your sophomore year that's a huge gap huge gap yeah a repetition and it happens again and again and again particularly with foreign language and other things and I math in particular and we're getting hit on those things and I know we' heard from families that they've s outside tutoring to absolutely y robust outside I think Mr list brings up an important think about it's not about the course time for I'm hearing it's about the students and their needs so as we consider longer shorter we should keep that in mind because we obviously can't have two schedules so we don't want to go too short but we know today's environment is is difficult so what an opportunity I see in the course schedules that you developed is that um there's opportunity for kids to double up in a conton area so let's say for example I'm not in algebra as an eighth grader I that puts me off the course to getting toward calculus but in this course schedule you've built there's an opportunity for me to get back onto that track if I so desire yeah you could I mean so a lot of students do that in their sophomore year with the geometry Algebra 2 combo is like how that works um there are schools who are um actually was talking to the math department had Bob Tian today we were just talking about um how to ensure that students don't get tracked and get stuck in you know this no matter what schedule we have like how do we make sure the students have opportunities to do what they want to do um and to excel in areas because we know even in things math and writing and in in understanding of Sciences like sometimes it just clicks L sometimes it just clicks for them later on um and so to give the opportunity to to be able to to move forward in the area they do and again that's when you look at that eighth block that's where it becomes uh that's where it allows for those those components to exist um this is the most like our current schedule that um just that allows for the continuity of year long it's an a every other day so it takes the length of our current period it makes it longer it increases the length of dsb but it just does eight courses at once alternating days yeah I think so year long and semester long same thing yeah the 80 minutes we discussed I mean 77 minutes already discussed was a little problematic so y right yeah we're we're trying to provide these structures cuz I mean I I really would say like if the feedback from our students like I mean like if our students come back and they're like we love our 77 minute classes we really need to take a look at what that means and why they're saying that whether we agree or not they're the ones living it and so I I think it's really important to hear from our students that you know and it may not be that we end up with 80 we have to look at it but I I do think it's important that we hear and again this is that piece where it's most like our current structure like that this is and we wanted to give them opportunity to look at various structures um you know the uh schedule so you'll notice there even though a lot of them are rotat or different times they are all very different so have you receive some feedback from um students regarding the current schedule time what that what I will say one of the benefits of the current schedule you have four classes right there is no argument I've said that for it that we could sit here forever and talk to her blue in the face having four classes is nice um I think where we see it is that again our high need students it might be nice but we talk about that the the retention over time we talk about a year off of certain classes um that and and they're kind of you have 90 days quick and then you're done with english um and so those pieces so looking at our high need students is you know um that that's really important here um you know as we get into those conversations with students we need to he what is most important to them um when all of this talk started I had a student come to my office um she was chosen by her friends cuz nobody else wanted to say anything and so they she had like this page full of questions um to kind of talk talk about and um I will say that U what was so interesting about it was uh she was uh she you know she talked about how she likes the four classes but also said but it's also not fair that you can't take band that you can't do chorus that special it's like students understand the the the limitations of our current schedule they also we have students who are are our top performing students who are are frustrated because they can't take the aps that they want to take so like it on both there are there are struggles in every schedule um and so there the student feedback um and the teacher feedback in is going to be extremely important to to to to you know which schedule we start to like hone in on and start to make shifts to and changes to all right so this one is confusing but it it is um so it is a cryptic sh it is basically a concept that we don't know if it's viable but it has components that are that are that it has components that are uh that we want to understand what people may like or not like about it and what you'll see about it is that it's it's our if you take our current schedule and add a period to it and then allow classes to run term semester yearlong yeah like based on that course basally just adding another class what you're just adding another class well well you're adding another class but it's like and this is why we say we don't know if it's really valuable but we want to see what the feedback is is it really is a a that you take X course and it runs it's going to it could be a year long it could be a semester long it could be a term long and so again we it structurally and when you look at like a power school like you think about like a puzzle and trying to fit all that together that's the difficult part here but we do want to understand because if there's a like if there's a value let's say to some of our classes being a term long and that's there like does that fit in with one of the other schedules that we have and so that that gives students access to more and maybe teachers feel like there are certain classes that should run a quarter I mean just again just like in in a in a in a yearl so you can take components of these structures and kind of play with them so um this one here that's why you see the A1 and A2 and B1 and B2 um because you can have classes that run every other day you could have classes that run every day for a semester um what this one still has is it allows it has every type of class in it so you could have semester long every day for like English or you could have every every other day type classes and so that's where um it kind of is like the everything schedule which again may not be viable but this would give a lot more we're just talking about the block schedule you're longer classes so that's good A little flexibility you're missing out on something this I I'm looking at this and I'm saying this gives a more flexibility to the school to offer more classes you offer more classes right so kid so like in this schedule if you look at it a student could take in one given term or in a term they could have 10 classes yeah still TOS a lot that's a lot I mean just again we wanted to provide various structures that because here's the here's the reality right if we look at this and students and families and teachers are like we need more opportunities well then we need to look at schedules that provide more opportunities um if we look at if we start to look at certain classes and say you know maybe that can run a turn term like class and students are looking for that like more again more opportunity then we need to start being able to build that in so again we're this this gives us a lot of information to be able to then focus in on one specific schedule I think it's challenging not to understand is how that first schedule but I yeah if you haven't built one it's hard like it's hard to see but it's again if you like take components of the schedule and then it filters in to to others as well you mentioned this might not be viable will you like the survey is going out right now the hft and then this weekend with parents and families when will we know cuz if this so it's not so it's I mean it's again we're looking at the we're looking at components of all of these right so like when you when you look at whatever the questions are a lot the questions really revolve around like if if you look at the questions how do we like can you can you be a favorite Dr kusco can you just scroll down just keep going just look at the qu like keep going yeah may not be so over impression how do you feel about 65 minute classes and time for instruction right like so we're talking about like so this is that's a numberers like 65 minutes and if you go down to more this is the basis of the one for the staff one that's why it's like how I manage like three or six classes so like if so for example like this schedule allows for some teachers may have three classes um in a given meas and may have six classes in that time so like a teach getting that feedback from a teacher about the how to man like is that manageable for them or not if teachers are like yeah we could we'd love to teach six great if they you know then if not they can share that so if you go down some more so these questions really help us build this structure um this is the confusing part there about how the classes run but if you keep going down so we're talking about retain M like this question up there was retain materials and correct assignments uh there yeah to retain material complete assignments effectively so we're looking at again you're looking at the structure and then once we get the feedback on each of these you can put that together to bring something pretty hope I mean in in reality we can come together pretty quickly with with something to bring back not related to the options but again coming to families are going to get this on Sunday students what time when will it close Thursday morning okay and no have to it'll it'll have to close no in reality it'll have to close on like Tuesday or Wednesday and not um but I I need to make sure that we um get teacher time I can try to get it out I didn't want to overpromise I'll get it out tomorrow get it out I you know if I can get it out sooner I'll get it out sooner it's just uh this time of year is crazy and so I didn't want to overpromise that I'd have it out tomorrow and then not have it out and then have lots of phone calls because I'm sure I already will uh with this just seems more complex even our service for the start time so yeah I mean I think to be honest the students will look at a schedule and they get like in living it I'm sure they saw it and understood basically the premise of most of them and you tell me if you didn't but like i' say that's a good analogy I think scheduling processes a lot like understanding start time transation or whatever there's you know even showing like a a schedule in the blocks whatever seems simplistic but you when you run it across another 700 students and their needs I mean we're looking at one single schedule there are then 700 versions of that that needs to kind of inter intertwine and and then you have another hundred or so teachers to kind ofit bake into that it's um you spend a lot of time in in the committee kind of talking about like what's possible and not possible in in scheduling and the more complex you make it the more Ching to make sure it addresses everything that you need to address yeah I'm I'm a Believer simple is sometimes yeah you trying to meet too many needs that Silo thing you created as an idea creates a conflict over here and sometimes the simplest schedule is the you know best don't know how complicated they are there's a documentary on Bill Gates and his high school had to have Bill Gates figure out how to build their schedule and he talks about I never felt better about my job when I was building schedules in in Medway when I saw the documentary and they were like they couldn't figure it out so they went to Bill Gates to figure it out in high school so like so it's and he talks about how it's like this thing of infinite possibilities when you're building a schedule um something just to consider as you're doing this so with with each of the schedules you presented each day looks a little bit different from the one before so just thinking about the fifth of our students at Hen high that have disabilities and how they would manage those transitions day today absolutely um okay so the 10 plan as now we're going to meet on probably Thursday I mean that's kind of the last time to so you're set up to have that uh that committee meet and hope and vote and have a have a yeah I mean yeah we have to have it to you by the first and it's the last meeting so right not NE to us it has to be decided yes could we could we could all meet on New Year's Eve and enjoy all right um well we thank you yeah all right um let's see here so that brings us to the end of our meeting hold on we're like TR we to talk more about start times yeah oh I think we should clearly on the 19th have a lot to talk about schedule so should talk about start time oh I can SH now so oh no can you me co-host just so I can share all right so um there is uh more to be talked about and so at this point we'll uh um I'm going to put on a a quick little well not really quick but a presentation uh on the survey uh results for those watching at home those uh on zoom and those with phones in the audience if you go to the uh Holliston uh school public schools uh website and you go to about school committee uh the presentation has been uploaded there so that you can bring it up on your your your phones or uh other devices uh yep uh okay need to be Shar and dve this you put on but they can go to the website has to be it's restricted any I just I know what you're saying CL you it'll be up soon can you make it public public show you the pdf version of public [Music] can you ring up now Chip me I put no you you you have access to the full okay what if I go in [Music] some was it sorry one second I can the PDF about okay no it was it was up okay yeah all right so it looks like it should be uh accessible now so um 2 how do I hide that D FL all right all right so I apologize in advance uh some of the colors uh don't work right there's a tried to put this together in the last 24 hours um so just a a brief recap of uh the three different options so schedule a is the uh 7:30 start time for placentino and Miller with 8:15 for Rams and 810 for hollon high school which uh tely gets the high school out at 258 um with the elementary schools out at 205 and 208 and then Rams at 253 schedule B is the uh 8:00 and 8:05 start times for for the high school and and Rams uh with the 850 start time for for bantino Miller uh which gets bantino Miller out at about 325 and 328 and the high school out at 340 sorry the middle school out at 343 and the high school out at 2 48 which is only 5 minutes later than currently and then Schedule C um it's the uh 7:45 and 750 start time for for Rams in the high school 8:35 uh for the elementary schools with a 310 and 313 uh end time for the uh elementary schools and uh 223 and 238 uh for Rams and and the high school um so realized after sending that out that probably we need to to flip the middle in the high school start times just given the you probably want 15 minutes between them if they're sharing buses but that's something to do with on another day um so just um as we go through this not all the numbers match as we looked through the counts because some people didn't answer certain questions or there were certain you know uh some people answer twice for their family some people had two adults in the house to answer twice um so um so just if you see different slightly different numbers it's just due to due to responses um so at the high level um there were about a th uh responses from families of a little over 3,000 uh unique recipients uh ACC to about 31% participation rate uh there were some um email addresses that were used that were did not receive the email directly um there are a number of reasons why this could be there could have been some people who who got it from from Facebook when the link was shared on Facebook but additionally there are people that are not necessarily registered in face uh registered in power school who are parents who um their spouses may had shared the link with and then and sort of had the right to to be part of the survey so um I didn't exclude those there were some duplicates there were some that I looked through that were were pretty obviously uh fake email addresses I did exclude those um but for the most part I just gave the the um uh the benefit of the doubt and to be clear it was about 90 or so responses so you're looking at like less than 10% of of the responses so I think that regardless and I'll take a look once I have some time uh if it if it changed anything but um I would say that that's that's pretty good so anyway um so families 31% participation rate as you can see schedule B was the uh the favorite um of of the families but in general you know it's kind of a third a third a third um with with Schedule C being the least um favored staff survey we have 3119 total responses of 606 recipients for 53% participation rate um and um basically A and C were were essentially equivalent with a clear um you know trailing of of of scheduled B and then for the students uh again fairly close to the the families which I thought was kind of interesting but we had 657 total responses of of, 1400 or so um students who were sending as a reminder we sent this to the middle school and the high school students so it was grade six through 12 um equating to a 46% participation rate again uh schedule B was the the the favorite but kind of everyone was in that in that that third third uh Zone um this is just based on First Choice next SL right this was this is the is the what schedule is your is your part yeah so this is a little busy I like numbers um but just some sort of this is this is looking at you know family choices of the ab andc staff all separate and students um I put a few sort of takeaways that I got sort of that that families definitely prefer uh though though A and C have have decent support uh though there they're sort of more balanced with with uh you know detractors um the the staff uh clearly prefers a with C coming in a close second but um is it uh sorry C has um more more detractors and B is is definitely as we saw on the other side uh you know definitely not not a a favorite um students um largely oppose all options um but not joking 15 minutes some of them tried to put that option other call um so uh we we appreciate their uh their honesty um uh looking looking uh at it sort of the three different groups we looking at schedule by schedule uh schedule a receives the most support from staff um and the most opposition from families uh schedule B receives the most support from families and the most opposition from staff and schedule C is more mixed uh with less extreme responses um to to all of them um then what I did in that wanted to show both of these ways because I didn't want people to think I was trying to manipulate the data but I think I thought that combining people who had chosen one or two or four and five together to get a kind of a a better idea of the sort of the extremes uh was an interesting way to to look at it um it it shows a more Consolidated view with families still preferring uh schedule B uh and having less detractors um staff again you know option A is is is clearly continues to leave but but B is is close behind um even though it still remains to have more more detractors and then students continue to dislike all of them um even more clearly um though there is a more of a dislike but less sorry just less of a dislike for for B and then um just looking at it schedule by schedule uh again the staff uh supports uh a more but uh still you know more balanced but but still uh support for for for C but um schedule B is now uh more clearly visible uh as the choice of families and and and staff are kind of split on both sides um and then C uh is the least favored of students um though staff and families both show more support than opposition to to schedule seat okay looking at the uh the staff survey results specifically this is just kind of a breakdown of uh the the roles and the schools of of respondents uh we got a good response from from most schools though uh uh Rams did did Trail a bit um and a good uh you know responsory across um across the different uh across the different groups looking at their sort of uh rankings um while um Miller clearly uh was consistent uh with some other information and was you know pretty unanimous with uh you know their their choice of option a um the rest were a little bit more balanced uh with with the high school and Rams leaning towards uh towards option C um uh one thing that I do know that circled in red is that the uh the PA professionals um are the pray professionals at placentino had a a significant uh cons had significantly underrated uh option A to uh to the other options and I thought that that kind of stuck out more than sort of most other things on here as far as at least an inconsistency um in in the at the school level and just sort of popping back above um of the respondents and I guess the administration can can can uh sort of uh corroborate whether this is true for all par professionals and I think it is uh there were more responses from par professionals at placentino uh than for any other school so 41% of the par professionals that responded uh were uh in placentino so it and it was 23 so it's it's not an insignificant group of people that have a very strong opinion that they that they viewed a Nega you know L word fairly negatively um so I thought this uh was interesting overall while the staff were evenly split between a and C disliking B um I got to give it to Miller for consistency um 97% of Miller staff uh wanted a and none wanted B I got none is actually quite uh quite impressive um I don't know two impressive two is impressive too but but just I mean it's a that's consistency um at uh at Rams in the High School uh there was definitely a pretty clear preference for for Schedule C uh though schedule schedule B at at Rams was was a you know got got a decent amount of support and that the high school uh A and B were kind of evenly split with with the rest and then back at placentino this one was kind of interesting uh in in that you know not a majority but but a but a strong plurality of of teachers uh of staffs are there did uh favor schedule a and you know we we've received a lot of um emails of support as well um from from placentino from placentino teachers for for schedule a um but at the same time you know over 50% didn't choose uh uh schedule a some some comments um I don't know if I need to want me to read all those but read them okay and by comments I mean we had hundreds we hundreds and and uh Hillary did a great job uh going through trying to find representation representative C comment from from a wide variety of of of different viewpoints um so um while a later start time might allow children to sleep a bit longer it does not address the broader challenge of ensuring their days are balanced and productive in fact it could reduce valuable time in the afternoons and evenings affecting both academic and extracurricular activities um and then I probably should we should have attributed these to sort of uh the group that it came from but I apologize for that um getting out later has uh getting out later has a very negative impact on my life and personal health there is a good chance I will seek other employment opportunities in the end of school time if the end if the end of school time were to increase um I um next comment take I understand the studies in which middle school and high school students need more sleep however the later end times would impact um on their ability to socialize and connect with others after school this would also be bad for the social emotional health of our students students stress about not having enough homework time as it is elementary students have their commitments as well but they are not on the same scale as our teens to young adults thank you for presenting um hollon High School options that end earlier than 300 p.m. this is best for students and best for staff at hollon high school I know many might prefer an even earlier start time but I believe schedule a is a nice balance of keeping a relatively later wakeup time for high schoolers while still ending before 3 p.m. okay uh young kids are more productive in the morning research and experience uh consistently shows that younger children are most alert and proactive during the early hours of the day delaying their start time could shift their most effective learning period to later in the morning which might hinder their ability to fully engage and absorb material as their energy naturally declines in the afternoon Miller teachers had their schedules changed most recently it is truly unfair to adjust our schedules once again option A offers the most banging Buck based on what the four administrators said as a Miller teacher our students have had no issues transitioning to the 7:30 time they are awake and ready to learn and to play Outdoors after school uh students at Miller School have demonstrated the ability to learn at our current start time we know that some parents not students do not prefer an earlier start time but students at this age learn best at the early time we currently have in our schedule I am curious why we need to change the schedules okay looking at the uh the family survey results um again this one was uh slightly more balanced um obviously schedule B did uh receive more uh support than the other two but again I'm not sure it's statistically significant uh we got a a a wide uh sort of uh we got a pretty good representation from from all different schools what I'll say is the data here uh for those who have children at multiple schools I I kind of broke it out and so if you have a placentino child you accounted in the if you have a placentino Miller child you Rec counted both in the placentino and the Miller uh counts for for this for this page on the next page you'll see sort of why that was kind of necessary to do but just to be clear there are some if you had multiple children in multiple schools you are kind of double counted in here um under with the same choices the thing that I think um to me uh was the um most interesting was that that parents of of placentino children uh do not want schedule a and then we're kind of balanced about schedule B and C um meanwhile not quite as uh EXT not at not quite the extreme but uh parents of Adams and and High School uh students did not really want Schedule C um I think that it kind of if you look at this overall my takeaway is the parents want their students starting later all them [Music] um any more about this slide move on there's a lot here so I leave it up for for a minute um again I'd encourage you like go to the hson website school's website and spend some time spend some time looking at this and we'll also email this out to to the community tomorrow um just so that everyone can get in their inbox but all right uh so so this is this was is why I decided to uh to present the data originally the the the on the prior slide um because they kind of grouped everyone together but I think what is very interesting is that parents who who just have a placentino student uh were very negative towards scheduling um parents who have a Miller and a placentino student were not quite equally but also very negatively towards schedule a um what I found very interesting was that parents with only Miller students actually preferred schedule like not a majority but but a plurality I I that I was I was not expecting really interesting for us after the feedback we've heard over the last few years um um clo there's the change so obviously right but they think there there's still been consistent concern about the the Miller uh start time so the fact that it uh was a clear sort of uh leader um I thought was interesting yeah um and then the high school and and Rams uh both uh if you just had a child at at high school and just had a child at Rams you did not want schedule seat um so both ways of looking at it you know show some interesting um facets but then it kind of breaks down as you get to parents with with children at at many different schools um I think what's interesting is if you have students at all schools you overwhelmingly are choosing 62.5% are choosing schedule a that is eight eight resp I didn't see that number I was like oh that's interesting there's a reason I I put the number of resp I was like I didn't see the number of that but um yeah I do think it's these are these are ranked and just people you can see but these are ranked from from most responses to to to least and thank you cuz I know this took a lot of work the way that we collected the data it was not easy I'm not a big fan of this color schemes it didn't quite just I there's a a shocking lack of purple um I just want to point out so when we made that choice we that change 5 years ago we didn't just change Miller School like the high school and the middle school also changed as well and all of those staff also had to change their schedules as well so it's not you know it was a big shift to do that that was three schools out of four impacted so um and I'm I'm I am a little bit surprised by the data of the that Miller Elementary um to say 44% still would choose that yeah it was what is essentially what we have now um going forward I was uh I was not expecting that yeah um and then you know given the the choices you know Miller and placentino uh [Music] together that was also interesting that that was solo um given that they were now moving the the start times together yes yes I would have expected that the benefit of having your kidss go at the same time may have outweighed the ear that was a big deal concern 80 minute Gap was something that they were very you know that was really concerned about so we felt like we were solving a huge problem by putting you know for the so for so many years all your students would your students would be at the same time on the same bus I mean l transitions yeah but no if you have a if you have a child at Miller in plastino you prefer schedule seek I just I had three kids in three different bus times for a long time I would have been happier with just one or two um and uh yeah exactly to do work this slide is just abysmal um but um I just got lazy um other fames data it's just interes and then I just started copying and pasting stuff but um what I think is interesting about this slide in in addition to the fact that 18% of people would be more likely to take a bus uh based upon the schedule change so I felt like that was a confusing question though cuz to me and I I reached out to Hillary and actually to Sarah but I don't know if I forgot you off the list but um to me I would have I didn't even know how to answer that because I think it would have depended on what we choose so if it was like if we choose a will it change maybe so I I just keep another design question um just saying I don't know the record I had nothing to doly zero but but one thing I do think that is incredibly interesting on here and was something again that I I wasn't fully expecting I heard anecdotally people say especially during the during the last uh start times um uh discussions if you look at the people uh about after school care in the use of middle and high schoolers um so 52% of people said it wasn't applicable to them um but if you look at the people who who it who who it is applicable to you know 29% of the total or 60% of the people that is applicable to said that they would use middle and high school students to help them with after school care um of the Thousand responses that's that's almost 300 uh people responding that they would use um high school or middle school students if the high school middle school got got out earlier for for for child care so I mean as we as we look at this and as we talk about you know people's need for child care and we did get at least one email some questions about you know what was happening with with childcare we'll have to that that is not being ignored um I I think that that that's something that we we shouldn't ignore either that that response um because it was more than I students are actually available to do that was that that's assuming that high school middle school students are available to do the activities have going on some of these are families with high school middle school students who also would would then use them for child care um but um so I I I had thought it was going to be more anecdotal and much smaller percentage but um so comments from from from family uh uh from from families uh cther two students are too young to be waiting at the bus for waiting for the bus in the winter when it's freezing and dark out in order to get to school for 7:30 Studies have shown younger kids should start earlier than older kids adjusting by 10 minutes from the current approach on either end of the day won't make too much of a difference but when you head into the the half hour change on the early side it would impact our morning routine quite a bit more sleep please the 7:30 start time is killing us and and we need the older siblings home first uh dismissal around 3 p.m. we earlier uh significantly impacts parents with full-time jobs and will require additional child care and more financial strain I love that all the options Po placentino and Miller School students and Rams and High School school students together this is a significant Improvement for previous versions uh with all three of the proposed times you are failing to see the impact on the length of the time children will be stuck sitting on a school bus to and from school as well as the impact of traffic uh for drop off and pick up at the placentino Miler complex an earlyer start time would help with work commutes the schedule would take adjusting but all new schedules due we'd get there um I would want to keep the the purpose of a later start time for the high school in mind for all the work done a few years ago option one would cause significant stress on our family logistically and financially exent option A yeah and the students so and then the student survey um [Music] so they the the choice of the students was kind of Spread spread across one one thing that I I thought was uh kind of interesting was that the uh I did Circle this for a reason I'm TR oh I it was so uh that the ninth grade uh more than any other class showed a clear preference for for option A which I kind of thought was uh was interesting especially given the drop uh in in prence for option A for 10th and 11th grade um um so I kind of just cirle that because I thought it was interesting not so much in the in the ranking uh Above So student comments and I'll just uh I don't understand why you would make the day longer it affects School uh Choice students more than anyone uh I believe starting earlier will benefit students by giving them a little more time for all the many responsibilities after school like homework work and sports thanks for the consideration school days that end after 250 make it very hard to get ready for Co-Op Sports and other towns I will adjust my bedtime accordingly to when school starts that's a great answer the swim team would not be able to make it to school on time I say we keep it the same if School ended any later than it does now I would be forced to quit my job given the very little time I have to arrive at my 300 p.m. shifts I'm very much opposed to this because I need a job to pay off my car and it's insurance and to save money for college all right and then I uh I did bring out the the impact study people can sort of look at the impact uh that certain different things would have on on on people um it's a little I have times to really dig into it it's a little tough because there were a lot of not applicable answers or no impact answers that kind of in many of the cases crowded out the the other uh the other uh results so um I didn't find the way it's going to it would take it's going to take would take some time to really be able to present in in a in a um sort of you know yeah but they have the data to look through but people can look through the data can look through the data um and so I just that's in there for schedule a and and it says non applicable or no impact is kind of overwhelming on that first one at least so which is I mean rather it have no impact and it be negative impact right soct a lot ofes sorry the no impact is pretty strong yeah it is which is so I was like so sometimes I was surprised by how vehemently they would choose something but then say it actually really doesn't have much impact but I just want this one so I just or very little on these other work life balance or whatever it was you know so I thought that was interesting um so those are the uh results of the survey um there were a few more questions but um those I thought were the the most pertinent um good thank you for putting all that together that's a lot of I like numbers I know you do so that's gooders this is like the fire hose approach what do you mean just a lot a lot done well there's a lot of data yeah I know out there and look at it in different ways right um I tried to think of yeah of different ways to kind of cut it to to to try to get into it and again things like the things that I think are are important are going you know going back to that that PA professional impact um at placentino it's just something that as we move forward depending on what the the committee's decision is is something that I think you know the administration should know about just ahead of time um and we can we can dig and we have the data so we can see those who responded we don't we not by name but we can see also we can look at comments that are made and and and things like that uh as well for for for those answers uh in more detail but um can I ask a question so when when I'm looking and seeing all of the the the no impact oh yeah that's really does it make any sense at all to kind of mean that towards the like group it right like like no impact positive and right you know have all of those numbers together and then the negative oh combine the significant negative so can see I I can I mean I didn't really this is just what kind of came out of the the the Google survey um so I just want cuz I it's difficult to to try and really get a real feel for some of the the like the family and the student data if you just look at the schedule itself a or C is it's kind of a tossup right but this is corela correlate some of those like so if it has a slight positive or very positive plus there's no impact like does does that help us kind of Wade through let me see what I can do over next week try you know more work but I just I feel there's a positive side and a negative side it can help us what's interesting is on options on Schedule C where I see there is one standout is in terms of sleep students had a lot of students responded that schedule see would have a slight a significant negative impact on their sleep which is the earliest start time and their downtime yeah yeah and obviously be interesting to see the gr on their downo yes but they're getting out earlier right same shows okay yeah that doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense I can I can try to see if there's some some more I work I think schedule a as far as downtime goes definitely had a bigger negative impact um actually downtime across all of them for the students is a lot of negative maybe that's the 15 minutes yeah but schedule a was certainly the most yeah was the one that they said which is weird we'd have to see what we have to see which grades are are are are doing that and um so right and and of course with the students there's there's no um K through five in here and very very little um grade six I don't know if I put I put in the there wasn't much grade six or seven no it wasn't no was five 5 and a half% of the the respondents were were grade six even my own daughter didn't respond um well to be fair when we did it last time we actually asked for them to do it during the like their BL but they did get a few reminders too like I think they were were reminded a couple times more directed like can you that yeah just cuz we wanted to get representation that being said I mean we have to think about that but to Dan's point it doesn't include K through 5 data right no but that's why we collecting that more par but all in all in a week thank you to the community right staff students um and families that's almost 2,000 responses in in just one week okay so so will we breing the administrators up we we we can ask I mean what get um some additional feedback from them are we not going to discuss that well I think we should discuss the entire thing and we can bring it through the different the different uh well this is just another piece of the puzzle I figure we should bring them up and then we can have a discussion um if you were to ask questions I don't think we we should we don't need to put them on the spot have do a a presentation for us but no would you guys like to come up to the table or rather you know are you willing to come up to the table in school grade order okay you can move that [Music] did you have questions for the I just wanted [Music] [Music] to start time start school in [Music] time um so in addition our administrators our lovely administrators were kind enough to send us a memo to kind of review over the scenarios that we had sent out as part of the survey and one of them was talking about the pros and cons strengths and weaknesses of them um so I am pretty concerned that um scenario C is um would may may not be feasible given that we only allowed 32 minutes between uh the bus runs when we know we need somewhere in the nature of at a bare minimum of 40 plus bu um in in addition I think there's significant safety concerns about dismissing stagger dismissing our younger students if they go second that's what would end up happening safety concern yes because when you do a stagger you've got buses kind of coming in and constant coming in whereas if they're all there then all of them go off at one time does that make sense true but I mean they're coming in a staggered manner now they're going to I mean you know there's buses I mean when they arrive but at dismissal they don't they're they're all the buses are there no but cuz they're yeah and that wouldn't be the case okay is that concerning from your perspective well and I I think the difference between now and the proposed plan of us being together is I have 12 buses now we're going to move that up to 17 and the way that Dave and I were able to design that dismissal plan was predicated on all the buses would be there so now we're housing 1,300 children inside waiting for buses to come in if now it's if we're if Keith I think you planned 45 minutes for the run you talk about between 50 and 45 as as a realistic so if it's 31 that means we could be waiting what we currently have 37 between the uh dismissal the high school and the dismissal of your building right and they're not there on time now so so picture Miller right now I've got all 12 buses there all at once so we probably start dismissal at47 I have buses loaded by 153 and they're leaving so if the buses are not there uh when they come then you have to house the kids somewhere you have to house the pickup somewhere and you have to have the Walker somewhere so in option A it's looking at you know placentino gets out a couple minutes early kindergarten usually gets out a couple minutes earlier than that they can get the kids on the bus our kids just leave the building find their bus number get on the bus but if if we're waiting for them that's the big if and just the confusion of like where those buses would be right so if there's 16 buses now and I'm having and now I won't have teachers for 15 minutes after school as well so it's just about it's it's it's the massive amount of children um that we would have to figure out where to put them and that would all delay car pickup um because we were going to have bus we need to get the buses in and out so so so I'll own the the issue with the uh with the option C as far as I I was trying to we discussed it I was we were trying to put together the final thing and I flipped Rams and the high school and so if you flip them back so the the ram starts at 750 the high school at at 7:45 you get up to 37 minutes um between those times um and then in theory you could move plastino Miller back 5 minutes and get to 42 I I don't know I would have to I'd have to look no those are the numbers but like um and I think what I heard was the the the time allotment between 45 to 50 minutes longer in the morning shorter in the afternoon and I think what we were thinking for option for um Schedule C is that I think everyone's agreed that the Rams in high school kids get off the bus faster so that's not going to be your longer route it is in fact arguably could get down to what you're doing now which is the 37 minutes and if you just think of the of what it looks like in the afternoon um and I I I wish I knew the number but we have as many as like 300 kids doing sports so that's significantly last taking the bus so I think that's where we thought that that afternoon route could get down to like a 37 minute time frame yeah again but we have 37 now and we're not making it right even with those 300 kids doing sports I mean we're not taking it and in some cases by significant amount is that because you're backed up from Miller though because the buses aren't no no no they're here they're here they're here we added 5 minutes a few years ago just after the pandemic um to the time in between which actually isn't built in now never backed up because of Miller now they never backed up because of Miller and I think the I mean that Jamie's and Dave's point if the buses are coming staggered so now they they're pulling kids in small groups versus having them all ready to go and getting one two 3 four and then the ones that are late now they have to get all those buses out cuz if you remember the plan was that the buses roll they're waiting they roll and then the cars come through so now the staggered approach means potentially getting kids buses off the campus 10 or so minutes after that which also delays the parents and get so that was kind of when they planned it they were thinking only it was predicated on the fact that the buses were there to make everybody move quickly and then if it was a little bit late on the high school in Miller I mean um R's end those kids didn't have to be supervised in the same way that students but I think there's a difference between Logistics and and then bringing up and saying safety I I mean because if you're right now the buses are are pulling up at different times and you're letting the kids off at different times and you got parents running around the loops I mean you've got a lot of movement on the campus now I mean yes it's going to be less because you have less uh you know students and less buses but the way that you showed the the the design of how it would work you're actually more organized and you actually have the parent parents dropping kids off further away from where the buses are than where they pick is the same is no it's not it's not the same drop off is much more complicated than a Rob like to an exponential dismiss sorry in there somewhere when we talk about safety we're just talking about about logistics kids getting on the wrong buses like we we're doubling the amount of kids we're putting on buses now so if I'm if I have to walk every kid out to their buses you know I need the staff to do that I need to the location to to have that I I'm just being honest with you careful about the words that we're using and making it seemed like you know that we're creating a a well the proposal that they offered was schedule a that they had said you could also flip this model to do the opposite and have them go first they would have set am I am I speaking out of it it's about the it was it's less about the time it's about the buses being there right it's it's you have to understand it's a mass amount of children we're trying to get out of the building safely and what I mean safely is these are five six and seven-year-olds if a bus is if I'm asking them to walk out and the buses are in different locations and by the way half the bus numbers have the wrong bus numbers you know what I mean like this whole piece it's going to take time and I'm going to have to have staff to supervised kids um Rams in high school they don't have that same level of supervision the we just have a highs and they go out they go out you know so we're going to have to have supervision for all the bus lines all the car pickups while these buses come in and then we have to figure out getting the cars through our campus while we still have buses kind of coming in where before it was all the buses are there the buses all leave the cars come in right but meanwhile we have um gone from a situation where we have you know kids uh we Millar kids standing out in in in the dark early in the morning um and now we're and and we've received significant negative feedback from from the community about that AR that the question was what was the piece about the dismissal just wanted to answer that yeah so we're just trying to trying to trying to balance things out because we we're now D you know the suggestion that that the uh principles is making is doubling that and and I I just apologize I just there the uh the link to the to the sunrise um uh data is is is actually to um Boston uh Jamaica um and and so if you if you put in hollon it's a significantly longer period of time um we don't use usually sunrise and sunset data we use um Civil Twilight you know there's I've looked I've looked outside during Civil Twilight and it depends on you know how the overcast of the understand of the Skies it depends on that's one of the measurements it's also not no I I was around during that debate and I I heard that and and I students right now are getting out off the bus in the dark yeah they are getting right but again they're getting off the bus they're not waiting for the bus so they get off and they go right to you know their their parents car right up the the driveway to their house not morning they're with their parents as well as they should be because they should be supervised but they're not waiting I mean it's y as opposed to just going right to your I still watch all the kids in the bus stop not bus stop cuz not all parents can do that for their kids so I watch of the kids every morning and my kids are in high school see know I said that people would say it's creepy um okay I'm just watching to make sure they all get on the bus safely so but um I and I don't have to do that I just do but um our younger kids typically are waiting with parents and if you're a placentino you have to if you're not out there then you're you know to pick up your kid then they're going back around and they're going back to school I'm just still trying to get past the the the the doubling of the amount of kids and then then and then includ and and these are younger kids then too um after we've heard so much concern and feedback uh over the years from the community and then you know you look at the survey and parents you just looked at the survey and 44% of those but the parents of those kids that moving don't want it I mean so I I just I that I mean to to me that is the the the the proposal makes sense until you start you know layering in some of the other factors you know the discussions that we had during the override some of you know the responses of the placent know parents um okay but we never thought that we were going to be able to put placentino and Miller together what does that have to do with no I'm just saying that it just brings another element to the to to this because I think that was one of the big issues for parents during the time when we made that switch was there was going to be 80 minutes between placentino and Miller and now that we have both of them I mean we can't have everything but if you have but the Sur was b f them together so that that so they still said we don't want to delay 44% of them saying they wanted the but 8% of placentino only parents said they wanted a and 15% of placentino Miller parents said that they wanted May so yeah yeah no look I was surprised but Miller but people who only had kids in Miller the 44% definitely was was was I catching it it was not what I was expecting but that doesn't detract from the fact that the other groups of parents that are impacted view it negatively and then you look at it on the on a on a itic basis the you know parents of um uh parents of placentino parents who have kids at placentino 13.7% of them chose a 43% chose b or B and C each is most significant impact bigest sh mhm the staff on the hand are are more will do it that that that is also recognized I guess what I would say in the last round they were the only school that wasn't impacted right I don't know if that's I mean I'm just throwing it out there I'm just you know to be fair just to be fair they were the only one that didn't got any shift whatsoever okay five minutes fair enough they did get infected everybody got trying to share change small change I I think what we're trying to say is it's about the logistics that we no matter what time you choose we need buses and I can't have kids waiting for 20 minutes for a bus because my staff is leaving yeah so you know there'll be Dave and I no I think there are other there are other options that can be we you can you know specifically hire people for for that if if we need to we don't have just AR people available we we we have a hard enough time getting our power like having people they leave they have other jobs like other than for half an hour or that piece so I I know we could hire people and say that but I'm just saying um I like to work in like certainties of of of what we could do um and when we created this I just think it's fair for us to share how we created it we're talking 1,300 students now that we moving through this and it's it's a lot to on this kind of staggered piece so but just to be clear about the par professionals they really don't want classentino par professionals do not want a well there are 23 par professionals who filled out by the survey that's how many there were and how many par professionals do you have 40 okay so it's more than half it's similar to respons they ranked it I'm just it's similar to the responsory for the entire survey so if we can't I mean you know that's a similar percentage of of of you know of the of the the group so that is the group that would change the most I I think that's simar to what cynthy was saying I think Miller staff was not looking forward to so early it was a huge adjustment and now they adjusted right but looking at placentino uh the the the teachers the the other Educators they you know they're they're at four so you know they ranked it much higher versus the 2.3 of the PA of professionals so I just that's where I'm looking at there's a significant discrepancy there between I'm not arguing that I'm just going back to Staffing to make sure I have supervision for that many students while I'm waiting for buses to come in but my point is you may have a staffing issue if you go to your proposal because you you may have significant turnover at at at the per professional level as it is if you do that and we already know we have an issue getting enough Fair professionals that's that's all I'm saying like you staffing issues this you may be creating one I think there so many them but that could also mean that because times change in a building maybe switch buildings we always offer them opportun so I mean you want to pull out percentages what was the percentage of Miller staff that wanted a oh yeah 97.7 we're going to pull out stats uh sorry .1 yeah I mean I I know that the high school princial talked about the fact that we also could just 10 minutes I know that was a big thing about trying to move 7:30 not being the earliest we talked about put potentially doing 7:40 just to get us a little away from that which would then put us at 308 I believe was the high school end time at that point in 303 for so again it still would make changes there but that there was only that one option presented I'm just saying there there could be some other tweaks you could bump things back 10 minutes um that would get you 308 is essentially the latest the latest yeah me you mean to move centino and Miller by 10 minutes to have a seven 40 times is that what you're I'm saying that's what I'm saying you could do that but then you then you probably you start I mean we didn't uh survey that but you you probably start survey on on that right um when I mean we saw some of that data from the teachers and it talked about the impact of on High School staff of getting out after oh the staff survey that was done during the The Advisory so if staff attrition is concern at the high school that's certainly I mean we do have that data from the earlier uh survey that was done we do right but if if that 10 minutes makes it more palatable for I mean it's half does another if we're saying though Schedule C is almost unv like not because of the gap between the schools and and the concern around the the buses why wouldn't an option A where you push it 10 minutes that creates issues high school and and and but the Best of Both Worlds where we push 10 minutes best of both world is one start time and we have enough bu yeah we know yeah we know we are saying though is if option C is the most concerning because we don't have the Gap the Gap is the most crunched and it's still an option why wouldn't we look at an option A where we push 10 minutes but keep the high school exit time the same time cuz it's I I feel like um Mr listen said as long as we're we're 310 was like so if we got out at 308 we're still within the window but not first but not you're in the sashes though huh you would also have buses for your after school the other piece with that's the other pie we wouldn't have buses so we wouldn't have buses to get the athletic run no no no we would it wouldn't we wouldn't it's not that we wouldn't have buses it would be that busing would be a challenge and there is a risk that people have buses no no no I I think it's important a little well no but there are nine months to to to to figure the situation out we still don't technically have all the drivers we have you know VI that we the oneis is that the r the first run regardless of what it is has more buses than the second run I've got a few buses that have no assignment during the second run yes and so but that that Delta is not enough to pick up an entire SWA of corre an after school need I again even now there are days where are too late buses and they are late now um or later um we I have occasion in the past only run one when you've been short for an athletic so I mean we we we are creative when we can be but the absolute truism is that if we have 17 buses for an elementary run and 15 for a secondary run I still will have two buses to do something with that I won't have at the at the run to reverse so you're already bringing on additional buses beond the two right now at a cost oh yeah so we would need to do that at a so that is possible but has a cost Associated right I spoke with I spoke with our contractor last week and we talked a little bit about brass tax with regard to his ability to acquired drivers he was actually very comfortable that he could get 16 which is too up from where we are this year um but again that's as as the chair just stated I mean there's nine months to try to you know jur jury rig up another driver to get to 17 and then you know go from there so is there a way of of running less buses in the afternoon because you have less kids taking the bus I mean you know when when um when Miller gets out in the afternoon a lot of kids are you know or Walkers or they they go downtown they're not taking the bus I know you said taking a seat for for anyone who's who's inside the bus but but here's so if you're trying to do that the problem is the the model right now is is built on um 58 or the target's about 60 kids on a bus with a 77 capacity that's a lot of shuffling in the afternoon with our youngest children so I can't just pick the Miller kids that's all the fifth grade but we have Rams in high school together right now right yes so we should be able to gather data for how many kids are how many kids are taking the the the bus in the afternoon right now which would know we would know then if we could actually drop a bus uh from that run to a get them to to you need to drop a bus from the elementary run though no but what I'm saying is you get the you if you're driving buses you get them to to the school you he's saying Implement C I need 17 to do the elementary run right but if you're but if you're able to get fewer buses for the first you you will have more buses at placentino mil to start regardless of how time spend between I'm just saying you get more buses there to get the more kids it may not be every bus there at once but you're if you're driving buses you reduce the uncertainty it be them putting kids again on different buses so you'd have to know in the morning I'm on bus 12:00 in the afternoon I'm bus 8 time went High School in midd sorry High School in in in ramp so those those you're putting an extra bus right but I'm saying a high schooler and a middle scho dead head on on the first run yeah we're we're barely surviving I mean barely surviving with 14 buses now at the high school run um I've got three buses in the that touch the queen with more than 70 children on it um you know I'm I'm again we're struggling 14 even if we if we switch to more Regional for bus this is volume this is nothing new with regions right this is just pure volume I regionalizing it regionalizing makes it quicker though still I still can't cut a us though comfortably I I'd have to I have to turn people down is what I I'm trying to do both things cut a bus and make quicker I understand I'm worried about I have to get the number I have to get people on a bus first and then I can worry about where I grab them [Music] from and and we are we are proposing to the to the select board to make uh Winter Street one way right you voted that didn't you sure okay I mean it helps they listen to me so much um but I mean we we do need to work with them on on a lot of different things I think there are ways of of of uh of helping with some of the things uh you know especially if there's any way to prioritize buses getting across Washington Street um different different aspects of of uh well they have a police station now right the middle across from the church so police officer right there right speaking have we there has there been any issue with all those little sticks that they put right outside of town uh Town Hall protect the police officer that's no but like the buzzes kind of have to go around yeah it's to the western side of Elm Street so you can come out from Elm and go around it yes looks more comers is it to say back on track and this isn't to say I don't value your your your your expert opinion it's uh it's being weighed very heavily I just at some point it it it shifts from sort of expert opinion to political opinion and and I I'm I don't know where that it is and where but um no I I have read every word and I'm and I'm weighing this as well along with the survey results along with the comments the emails I mean we are we are looking at all of this and this is important we just want it to be feasible like whatever schedule you create yes needs to be feasible that we can pull it off is what we're saying the other complicating piece is that our sro's Ours by contract are 7 to3 yeah so if we I'm just telling when we push that out Beyond three and we at the like that's a lot of cars coming through that we're trying to manage at our complex and we were hoping to have our SRO there no I that I don't want to get into to details of that because I'm just say no no no I'm just saying but I think that that is something that regardless of the outcome I think that we could work with the select board and and and the police chief and on on seeing what what can can be done if um with with that but um but but fair and if any of you want to come down and see our dismissals how they are now we welcome you to come and we're two different ones um but at the same time we're going to have to have a systematic one but you can see how the flow is and when the buses are all there for Miller Miller kids are going right out to the buses um and then you know our hope is that when we're combined we can have that same uh system but I welcome you to come [Music] down you guys hav seen yeah watch the kids to be dismissed but you need to see both with the administrators not on your own CU that would be see exactly what because um they all know me so what are people thinking I mean we're obvious not voting tonight but um I I lik Frank's idea um I think that we should talk about that like if we move that 10 minutes does it kind of help make everybody a little more comfortable with this big Shi is that proposing that the high school gets out at 38 well it would be 10 minutes we now leave with Frank's proposal so whatever happens I both men guess saying is it three is and I know there's considerations all that how the gaps between the two start times and whatnot but if we push 10 minutes because we we we feel confident on the gaps we have right now between the two star times the runs essentially to get the buses there if we push 10 minutes keeping the elementaries first is there any wig we're talking I know 10 minutes sounds like the end of the world and and how we can squeeze it but could we squeeze keeping the high school where it's at in its current form but pushing the Elementary's 10in layer so closing the Gap closing the Gap and I say that and I know Keith's like no he's already shaking his head we just need to wait a few weeks and then he won't be able to answer it it's just no so I will ask Dr Jordan if I get they're slower and whatnot but is there any wiggle room we see where we could close that because the Gap is the issue is the high school at the same time the start of the elementary is being as early as they are but that means 30 minute run time in the morning during one of the busiest traffic times so is your proposal then that placentino and Miller are 7:40 a.m. start but then somehow we're going to get those buses back out and pick up our our high schoolers and middle schoolers by 810 which is only 30 minutes on a busy time like do you with with every bus having across Washington right and and the fact is that again we're not making the time universally now I mean um now the the idea of combining stops um will help with that but we're talking about helping in minutes not in tens of minutes right um you know so I you know you know we modeled it now at what 50 minutes I think yeah um because it' be there like 7:15 you know the the let split the difference to say five minutes I know but it does matter though it does matter it's it's again optimistically yes I think to start definitely but it's it's you know again what I would really want to do um in all honesty is is do a little bit of a deeper Dive Right Now on um looking at the times that the buses are arriving at class Kino after dropping off I mean literally tracking the the 14 high school middle school buses who's dropping at which school when you know and then seeing when they get the placentino precisely right you know the the the 11 buses that are doing class and you right now see when they're getting there precisely because if they're not making it now they're not going to make it then right do you know what I'm saying yeah and mean conversely from a time frame it's it's in a similar time frame um but it's you know we just I I I know what numbers I feel comfortable with and and which ones I don't I don't I don't want to set up to failure cuz the fact is is that if we set it up for failure somebody's going to have to move you know I me personally move like you have to Tech you know down right just but I'm just saying the school will have to move mid year right I think that's the biggest thing trying to factor in so many different it is a puzzle right because it's it's Logistics it's safety it's this number the volume it's after school sports so that's what P was trying to factor in all those things and also deal with sleep studies and the mental health of students so there was it's not just one thing you move one puzzle piece and it just blows everything else up too as I said earlier today to somebody I said you know this isn't calculus but it's not addition either exactly it's more abstract than it looks mm all right so let me throw out a really conversely we don't want buses like dumping dropping dumping sorry dropping kids off too early either like at the Miller and Elementary if they're picking up and leaving there they're if they're there earlier than 7:15 right now there's no staff there to supervise them so they would just have to be sitting on a bus so we don't it's like a you know Keith what is the Art and Science what is the shortest placentino Miller bus run in time right now well no we're combining them but whatever you can give me there's one that's timing itself out and I haven't I've got to put some more kids on it now because it's timing out so low it's at 30 a second 30 something 36 38 minutes something like that but again I have some that are 55 right now timed out so no no but I'm but I'm I'm thinking I'm thinking of activities and you know what when when you get things freed up because we did have a couple students stand up there and suggest you know starting the high school as early as possible and if you did a 7:30 start time for the high school again I know Cynthia no I just just it goes against our science that we talked about again I think that science is a more holistic View and and and there's more to it than than just than just sleep um you can have your opinion but there's also facts no no I'm not debating I'm not debating I'm not debating that more sleep is better I'm saying that there are if you just look at sleep and let that drive everything you're missing a lot of other factors driving if it was driving everything it would be like 8:30 or later it's not so so it's 7:30 7:35 for for for Rams um and then wa yeah Rams is 5 minutes before high school just CU there it's a longer High School no the high school is is first because it's a longer day 7:30 gets the high school out of two 2 yeah I I have it wrong in I did I I screwed it up in in in C and then you did a I don't know 8:25 start time for for placentino Miller gives you a 42-minute bus run but the bus is but the dismissal is at is at 3:00 which frees your buses up at you know 3 340 does that work to get them at Le or at least your earliest buses I'm sorry you know freed up closer to 3 to 330 340 that would be a Mr list question I I can't well he said not for regular day but for athletics no we that wait so we wouldn't get our we wouldn't get an athletic bus other so we would get athletic B 340 350 so we we request our buses at 3:15 and we normally get them by 330 okay right but you're so I'm saying you're saying the earliest that a bus could show up would be 340 which means based on the current run I mean current runs yeah in this what current runs the current cost Mill runs the shortest is like three is like 36 or 30 minutes so that would right but there's like get kids on the bus so it's not necessarily representative what the average run would be unfortunately I'm not looking at the average run I I'm looking at because I'm not I'm not talking about all 17 buses I don't need 17 buses to transport kids I'm talking about getting short threading needle here that is what we're doing I get it and I'm just saying we also have other extra buses because if one breaks down or something any of that come no that's homes's issue one breaks down they have extra buz okay yeah exactly what is it JB I was asking David what typical number of buses to [Music] four might at some might a little smaller so there three or four buses and we're only freeing two we still have a problem but not everybody's playing at 4 430 something be playing lat um that's still awesome should we send out another survey no no no but we're we put this data out here we're going to um make it's going out via email we can collect you know people can certainly write to us no no we're obviously not doing another survey um I think we we'll send it out hopefully people will will get back to us um I would like to get a sense of what what people are thinking know I just not necessarily where they're Landing but where their concerns are um if you so choose you certainly don't have to um just to to get a sense of where especially if there's more work that we want to have the uh the administrators do between now and next week uh you know is there something that we want to be asking them or or or focusing on certain gating gating things and more information I think that we should try to see whether or not we can make that proposal make a proposal work if that means we can shift a few minutes here or there then I feel like that's our best option I have a real reluctance pushing the high school to end at 308 without surveying that and I I think from the limited data I saw um from high school staff regarding that issue it was going to be problematic and I also really worry about not it's not just Sports it's activ and jobs we've heard from high school students um that pushing their end time out later um impacts those jobs I I I would I I have a real concern about what clubs would look like um if if some of our staff is telling us these later times are impactful to their child care or their second job they're not going to be here to run your club and and the high school does have a lot of clubs as does Rams and I think that that concerns me um you know I I have read through the comments or something like um 350 of them on the family survey um there are many placentino families that are concerned about starting that early and that that's difficult for them I'm really pleasantly surprised at the number of Miller families that um did like schedule Egg and I and I heard the Miller staff loud and clear I mean they're they're unanimous on this one um I expected to hear more push back from placentino staff overall because it again is such a drastic change right moving um from almost 9:00 all the way down to 7:30 um and I and I know you pointed out uh the PA professionals and the almost two dozen pair professionals um that are really concerned about that but overall I don't think we saw staff in terms of teachers um at class you concerned about it and that I was pleasantly surprised about that um I think when we look at the family data um it really it's like a split pie right I know and the students as well but um that's what but I'm also hearing family and student data concerned about um you know you just mentioned a 7:30 start for high school um and RAM students and you know know I I do really um find the parameters that the school start time committee that put in time this fall gave us um I'm trying to weigh those as well and they talk about not wanting to start Rams or the high school before 750 so I think they looked at that and the history behind that and tried to weigh that so I I don't mean to put put this off but you guys all saw how much data went into that survey um and the and the 28 Pages you put together on that I think we do need a little bit more time to digest that I think the community needs time to look at that and and people feel very strongly about this right um and I hope you know we were asked the question about personal biases I mean my mine would be to put uh in terms of of high school students I like the earlier time for for students but I'm trying to put all of that aside and um it you know I I just hope that people look at the community data too um people felt strongly about this but I want them to see that in terms of families they're very much split in terms of um students they're very much split um I know it does make it really hard to the decision but my my only point is I think that you know the last time around I think that the the emphasis almost the sole emphasis was on the sence of sleep and I think that the was was Miss to some degree was the sort of the science of of social emotional you know having one of the things we learned through C respectfully disagree because okay well let me if I could if I could if I could just finish that would be great um the one of the things we saw during Co was the negative mental um impacts we had where when you didn't have all the social interactions and you didn't have um time to participate or you didn't have the ability to participate in in in after school activities and at the high school and at the middle school more of the after school activities are tied to the schools whereas at the at the younger grades those are generally outside of of of school right so they're not necessarily tied like sure the the the private um dance studio may may sort of start their times around when schools end but then they would adjust to to that as as as the um times change so I mean there's I think there's more of an imp on um the older kids because of how much is around clubs that activities and then you also have the one the kids who are working and and have jobs and and later times we will'll limit that because obviously they're not going to do that in the morning so just so that it's when you talk about the the science I mean you're talking about you know um because what what the science of sleep is is about really the impacts that it has on on on kids mental health and and their sort of their their functioning but there's the flip side of that and that's the the it's also just science of their Sarcan rhythms and best opportunities for I I I get all that but my point is and in the document as I said in the document it also says you need to balance it no I agree and that's one of the reasons why when we made that shift 5 years ago because the science was saying 8:30 or later is the best time for adolescence but we knew that that would not work for our community based on all the things that we just talked about which is why the compromise was to do 810 and make that shift at that point so we absolutely considered all of those pieces in that I'm not going to say there was like everything was 100% but we certainly spent four three to four years on that issue and not just 6 months but since then I all things that that that I think Co gave us a lot more information about how important other aspects of Life are not that aren't necessarily also that if students don't get adequate sleep they're more likely to get sports injuries things like that that is a factor but Cynthia looking at the data that we received from students again I I know it's um it's not it's not it wasn't every student but more than 37% of our students are still getting up before 630 in the morning not withstanding an 810 start time right so how much have we really changed um I just I I was kind of surprised at that right well yeah I mean I don't know what gr there certainly wasn't six there wasn't a lot of representation at the middle the middle um school at all in that data so it's we had the highest percentage the highest percentage of respondents was from the 11th grade right but most so most of it was high school students so 11 and specifically in the 11th grade was a yeah well I can break that I can break that down for you um sure flip a coin I think we need more time no no no no we definitely no no no we're not taking a vote tonight we're I'm not you know I I think honestly I'll be honest we're all going to get heated especially in this area over here a little more uh the more we talk about it what are you talking about Frank C will Pi some I'm just I'm saying all of us are going to get more I I don't know what new information we're bringing to the table by having this conversation I think what we should consider i i before we leave is there anything else we need to know or need to capture what is that just said yes bringing us back to that I I guess the other thing that I want us to factor in is that not one of us at this table is on the is an administrator or Works in a school district and so just saying like we know our own kids and we we have to value and look at what our experts that are in the field are seeing every day that's their job so it is we have to weigh that heavily to say okay this is what our administrators are saying is the best choice for our students and I feel like that's important data for us to look at we're not I'm not a teacher in this District I'm not seeing what the kids look like every day when they show up to school I certainly when we made the shift um with Miller and made that flip that time I think there was a lot of skepticism as whether that was going to work out but what we found is that the students as the data showed would show up to school and be more engaged and by 1:00 or 2:00 in the afternoon after lunch they were like falling apart so to have kids even now you know we have parents that are bringing their kids for early care and might be bringing their kids at 7:00 in the morning it's a really long day for a young kid to start off at 7 not have school until almost 9:00 and then still not get home until 4:30 so I mean I know it's a huge shift but I think it's going to be positive for them that's just I mean great Mr Alford you had asked us about like looking at our own data and about mental health and I I believe linked in that um just as you talked about what else to look at linked in there um um under the memo you did under the memo um jerielle um and Jess Bey they did um they went through the information from the uh mental health survey from 2017 on so you could take a look at that as well that's something you had you had asked us to look at so that's in there as well yeah I appreciate that I mean it's it's complicated obviously too right because you've got a lot of different things that are that are overlaying it I I know yeah there's no one variable but hospitalizations that you know drastically increasing over the last few years at Rams you were there that's more than likely unrelated to to the change in Star times and simply more of a a result of of you know the secondary impacts from from from Co and all the different things so it's it's it's um it's up yes that thank you all right so um is there anything that we want to or or actually why don't we just if you do come up with questions that you want hopefully within the next day or two to give give some time for the collection um um it's going to be good I mean I did ask about whether we could explore that scenario of adding 10 minutes to to a so I'm asking that question if there's data that we need to know about whether you know making that shift but whether it's from Athletics or otherwise can we look into that that's what I'm asking so for our next meeting I guess one thing I'd want to note too is for clubs and activities this year we we approve a list both at Rams and at the high school are all of positions filled in terms of do does every Club have a mentor and all one all of them are all but one okay okay um and have we have we specifically asked staff um whether they would still if we push them basically almost 30 minutes later whether they would we would still have people to cover those yeah I I didn't know if this came up at all during the yeah I for planning purposes so you got or is there a meeting next week we both talk about that so um yes we have to we're not going to vote tonight um so Thursday is our normal night um does that work for people yeah and then and then what time I know Frank you talking about you you had uh yeah you prefer later startat be helpful get here later so 7 7:30 okay it is I know so much going on we send out a survey about this St time you could do star time yeah survey for next week um the meeting next week 7 or 7:30 yeah okay hopefully won't be long holiday Miracles um okay all right um anything more we have active session right yeah but so so but please you know uh this this uh the slide uh deck will go out tomorrow to the community um it will include you know just a a request for for fre for feedback um we continue to to want to hear from from people um okay I'd like the memo from the administrators to also go out to the community so they can weigh that feedback as well sure thank you um but let's correct the the the the link um correct the L sorry is there something the the sunet oh yeah yeah Jamaica Jamaica but then and then the the text as well it's a little bit more impactful but um so we'll send that out um and then I'm going to abstain um no you're not I mean you can it's your right no I'm not going to obain um but so everyone do a lot of thinking as we get weend uh just not show up to the vote I suppose d the meeting it's fine right Don all right so we are meeting next week uh at either 7 or 7:30 um uh this does conclude our our public uh agenda items um we do have reason for executive session for the purposes of conducting uh soain a motion to adjourn into executive session for the purposes of conducting strategy a preparation for negotiations with non-union Personnel to conduct collective bargaining sessions or contract negotiations with non personnel as well as to discuss strategy with respect to c a bargaining or litigation of an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining or litigating position of the public body in the chair so declares oh move by cyia second by da all right this requires a roll call from which we will not return by the way um this requires a roll call vote Frank yes Hillary yes Joe yes Sarah yes Cynthia yes Don yes Dan I'm a yes um thank you everyone for for participating thank you to our administrators for for preparing all the information and uh sitting through all this and thank you to everyone who filled out the survey and provided feedback uh good e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for