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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=swf8sem9Wyg

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All right, uh good evening everyone to our July 27th meeting of the Select Board in the town of Holliston. I'd like to welcome everyone who came in person all those online who will be joining us. Packed agenda tonight. Uh we'll be trying to be efficient and go through things at speed but as deep as we need

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to in order to get to all the details. Um I'd like to begin tonight with uh a meeting with our Parks Commissioner regarding a vacancy and a joint appointment. Uh let's see. All right, [clears throat] uh Mr. McDonald would you like to join us up here? >> Sure.

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We have Mark Frank on online. >> Mark, it's great to see you in person. >> Okay. I'm not sure why my camera isn't going here but I think it's because I'm a co-host of this thing so I I'm not sure [clears throat] if I can take it off there but >> We saw you a moment ago so >> Yeah. >> I know I but now I don't know why it's

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not working. >> In the meantime your sonorous voice will do the duty. >> I had my video on. I would love to for you all to see my face but >> If we we love that too but >> If you want to know what Mark Frank looks like you should all go watch Ask the Town Manager as soon as the Select Board meeting is over tonight.

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>> They should do [laughter] that anyway. >> Anyway, all right. On to business. Uh so what's going on? >> Not much. How are you? >> Doing pretty well. It's a good summer. Um I hear we have a vacancy and I'd like to discuss how to do it. >> You bet. >> Yeah, you want to tell us a little bit about what the situation is? What's the speed at which you're looking to move?

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>> Sure. Uh so Shawn Lively moved from Holliston which created the vacancy uh which is also a huge disappointment to us cuz he's been a long time supporter of not only Parks and Rec but the town in general. So we're sorry to lose him. Um there's about a year left on that

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term and uh we'd like to go about filling that vacancy. >> Excellent. Um we have been working on kind of a new process to try to streamline these things a little bit. Um it's still early yet but our general proposal is that if there are

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three or fewer individuals that apply um then we kind of jump to the joint meeting with both boards and we have a discussion right there that usually results in the appointment pretty quickly. If there are four or more individuals, we will probably use some kind of a screening meeting to get that down to

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two or three and then proceed to the joint meeting as planned as well. Any worries about that? Does that sound like an okay process? >> terrific. >> Okay. >> Can I jump in with one one caveat to that? >> Please, yes. >> If there is one candidate, would it be

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possible for us to just kind of individually vote at our meetings and go, you know, like like that kind of route if there's only one? I I just That's my experience with this for uh you know,

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>> The bylaws The bylaws says it's a joint meeting and a joint appointment. >> Yeah. >> So, I think we'd have to we'd have to Yeah, maybe it would be >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I like the I like the efficiency of that process. >> I love it, but it's like what the bylaws says that I mean >> We have to do it together. >> Yeah. And then um the what we've been

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doing what we've been intending to do is to hold the joint appointment appointment up in the town hall upstairs and using a method called approval voting, which is basically just vote yes on anyone that you like. We're not going to have that embarrassment of riches, but if we had a whole bunch of people, you'd basically be voting for like any

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of the candidates that you thought think would do a good job. We'd just affirm them and the person with the most votes is the one that comes out on top. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Pending discussion. So, if that sounds sanguine and good to you, I think that's probably what we'll do, but we're happy to flex on that. >> I'm good. Mark, you good?

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>> What really comes through with that whole process >> For my fellow select board folks, any thoughts there? I don't want to >> Just uh two things. One, has has uh there been an official notification of the vacancy from the parks >> I don't believe so. >> Uh so, we haven't put anything up publicly like we have sorry, to

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publicize the vacancy, but Brian has emailed me and the town myself and the town clerk to notify us notify us no vacancy to be filled. >> So now the the 30 days sort of kicked off from >> And then that was my second question is and uh what does the timeline look like for for Mr. Chair? >> Uh

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have you I think Frank you proposed in a conversation with me that we try to aim for the the September 14th select board meeting? >> Yes and and if that would work for the Parks Commission. >> That would work, yeah. >> Okay. That doesn't leave you guys hanging too long. >> No. >> All right, excellent. Yeah, we'd love

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hopefully we get a lot of folks applying and it gives us time to peruse their backgrounds and get a little bit of information. But if that works for you Tina, any thoughts? >> None. I I completely support the process. I think it's a fair one and a transparent one and uh although a new one um from past practice, I think it's

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important. So no no no >> Still learning how it goes, but see how it >> Can I ask a very quick logistical question? What's the requirement for the um candidate to notify us that they want to be involved in the process? Is it just an email? Like how does that work?

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>> So we usually ask folks to send a letter of interest and we usually have just have them all go to uh Donna and then um once the deadline's passed, so maybe we could do it if that meeting is the September 14th,

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um you know, maybe we could make it shortly after I think cuz I think Labor Day's the 7th, so maybe we could have it the 8th or the 9th. That way folks would have a chance to review all of the um um all the letters of interest um

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and then we would we would go from there, Mark. And typically um if folks ask, the reason I send it to Donna is just so it's like it all goes to Donna when the deadline drops, then everyone can sort of see what's in there as opposed to it going into everyone and then everyone knows, "Oh, this person

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applied, that person applied. This is how many applicants we have." I just kind of like the idea of it all being in a black box. >> Can could I make one suggestion here? Um we have a little bit of time, so it works. I would say actually could we actually have the candidates the the the the date the Friday before

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and that way if there needs to be a meeting there's a little bit of runway to have a screening meeting during that week like we something I would suggest is like maybe they'd schedule it and then if there's two candidates we just cancel it if it's like that which is not a big deal. That way it's not something that's you know it it it it can get done and then it's it's not like a you know

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um we're under like two days that we can do it and we're not sure what to do. So, if I could make that suggestion if if people are amenable. >> I'm very amenable. Tina, any thoughts? Does that seem okay to you? Okay. Terrific. That's excellent. And then just personal now I care quite a lot about what the commission is looking for in terms of

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candidates. So, I I may reach out maybe we'll do it as a group but any provisos or thoughts going forward on the kinds of qualifications that you think best suit someone for it. Again, it might be one of those things where we only get a handful of people applying but in a in case there's more than one I am going to be you know a lay person

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on this. You're the experts and your advice would be greatly appreciated. >> Perfect. Happy to >> Last time we had like three or four >> candidates I think last time we had a parks >> What kind of opening is >> I don't know. I had ran unopposed three times so I don't know if he >> I thought I I thought I remembered >> The last time was four people for two spots which is the first time it's ever

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been opposed in my 10 years. >> Okay. >> Good. >> It's getting big. >> Yeah, you never know. Okay. >> It's getting popular guys. >> I guess. >> You're the new hotness what can I say? >> All right. >> All right. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate >> Thank you so much. All right. Thank you. >> Cheers. Thanks. Nice to see you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you Mark. Have a great night. >> Thanks Mark. >> Excellent. We don't need a motion on

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that, right? That's just conversation. So, we're good to go. Um moving on. Community Preservation Fund request. Uh Mr. Town Manager. Oh no, sorry. Capital Expenditure Fund update. Mr. Town Manager, I I know that you have been keeping abreast of the conversations

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online. There are lots of people interested in this situation. Um we promised constituents that we would make this part of our meetings going forward even if the information uh was trivial as we're moving on but it sounds like tonight we have quite an update. So. >> Uh yes, we do and I first just want to

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thank uh the board for their patience as I know that we've been trying to work through this. Um I think what's been important to me is that we try and uh work quickly, but also try and be thorough and also be transparent. So, that's a few different things that sometimes don't always drive together. So, again, thank you to you three and

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then others for your for your patience. Um I also just before I want before I dive in, I just want to note, and you'll see it on the slides, that a lot of this is preliminary. Um you know, we are going to be handing it off to a a third party. Um this is sort of like the end of the not the end of the road, but this is

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sort of where our sort of internal legwork is going to um take a pause for now. Um and I can talk about a little bit of the next steps um when I get to the end here, but um I'm going to start with a just take a little bit of a step back and talk about what actually is the

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capital expenditure fund. Uh if it's the first time you hear heard about it, it might be a little uh confusing about, you know, what is this sort of thing that's out there that funds various things. Um so, Hudson has a capital expenditure fund that was actually created via a special act of the

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legislature in May of 1993, which is a little bit unique. Um Nonetheless, that's the one that we have. Sorry, I just got to close this door. >> You may want to move the microphone a little closer to >> Sure. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Yeah, no problem.

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Um so, our special our excuse me, our capital expenditure fund was created via a special act of the legislature uh in the early '90s. Its purpose is to set aside capital needs. So, you think of things like vehicles, uh equipment for DPW, um infrastructure work, um you

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know, road roadway excuse me, roadway work. Um engineering or feasibility studies. Um you know, obviously at this past May's town meeting we set aside money out of the CapEx for uh the high school feasibility study. So, it's a wide array of things that it does study. However,

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it does not have anything to do with uh salaries or operational costs. Um so, I just want to make sure that there is a uh a clear distinction. Appropriations out of the fund are approved by a 2/3 vote of town meeting. And the primary money that goes into the fund that basically, you know, then is

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available for expenditure uh is money that we spend out of our operating budget. So, in this past year's or this current year's fiscal um budget, we have $1.875 million that comes out of the operating budget and goes directly into the capital

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expenditure fund. We also set aside free cash typically every October uh to put into the capital fund. And then the two smaller ones are interest earned on the fund. So, it's just like any um you know, interest-bearing account that it's actually kept in uh in the bank, it earns interest. And then a portion of

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the um cell tower leases that we have around town uh go into this fund. It's divvied up between um uh this fund and the open space or excuse me, uh the capital expenditure fund, the open space acquisition fund, and the conservation fund, I believe. So,

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um ty- typically, this and I know this is hard to see, but I was trying to fit all of it. Uh this is basically a summary of how we track what is available to spend in the capital expenditure fund. When you go to May town meeting, um when you go to the back of the warrant, there is

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always a list of all of the funds um and the recent sort of ins and outs and ending balances for each fiscal year for all of the funds, and the capital expenditure fund is no exception. So, uh in this most recent year's uh this most recent May's town meeting, um that addition would have had

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everything back to fiscal year 2014. Um so, in in the moment, um the whether be a elected or appointed you know, policy-setting uh board or committee or appointed staff would rely on the mechanisms behind the spreadsheet

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to determine what's available for expenditure or excuse me, for appropriation going into that year's budget cycle. So, um in reviewing the totals reported beginning in fiscal year 2022 through the present, there was uh an error in

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reporting those totals of the transfers out. My transfers out, those are appropriations. Those are not true spends. Those aren't bills being paid. That is the town saying, "We approve $100,000 for this thing." And in total, all those things, obviously, across multiple fiscal years add up to quite

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the sum. And so, when you're off even just a little bit, it it has a trickle-down effect effect that, you know, is going back to fiscal '22, um we're now dealing with >> Uh sorry, just to interrupt. So, for folks who are not, you know, I know people watch this on videos as well, but for folks who are not as fiscally

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minded, um what you're saying there is essentially the amount of money is being kind of put aside, but it's not at that point spent. >> Correct. >> All right. So, the when something is appropriated out, we're just so people know, the $100,000 until we actually pay for it, that money has not left our

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coffers. It's simply been petitioned away as as something that we've designated. >> The technical term there, I think, is is so it's appropriated, it's it's encumbered for a for a certain expenditure, but not actually the money has the check hasn't been cut out the door to >> And it still earns interest even in that

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setting until it is actually paid out for a project. >> And it and it it's still, you know, yeah, it's it's within the fund. It's just sort of set aside over here to be spent on the specific thing. Um and we can get into what happens when uh

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there's money left over. I have that in my notes. >> I just wanted to interrupt that. I know a lot of people have questions about that, and it's I don't think it's that clear to folks who don't deal with budgets that there's a a bit of a difference. >> Yeah. I mean, there isn't really a personal finance equivalent, right? Where you're like, "Oh, I'm just going to put this I'm buying this thing, but I'm not going to pay for it yet. I'm just going to put the money over here."

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>> savings or something. >> It's like maybe I have like a savings account for like a health savings account or something like that where you intend to spend it on those things, but it it's still a little bit different because it's a possibility versus um an appropriation which has been allocated specifically for that purpose.

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>> Right. And so you can see so everything in the the the rightmost column in this um this reporting mechanism is the ending balance which it relies upon the transfers out. It's all just a big formula. It's money in plus money out equals your ending balance. And so when you mess

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with one of those pieces of the equation, um you know, obviously the ending the end result is not right. And then when you uh compound that with one, two, three, four, you know, five-ish years of reporting error, um you know, obviously makes the problem that much more to to surmount.

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So um as a starting point, what I did was I went back to 2008, which was where our financial records uh in MUNIS go back to. And went through our town meeting warrants

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going back to uh that same fiscal year, fiscal year 2028 or excuse me, fiscal year 2008. And all of the balances beginning in 2008 that were reported in this transfers out column tied to everything that was in the warrant and everything that was reported in MUNIS.

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So that's this slide is 2008 through 2013. This slide is um 2014 through 2020. And then this is when we get into uh 2020 through 2027.

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So in 2020 and excuse me, in fiscal year 2020 and fiscal year 21, those items are are green. Those were good to go. But you can see beginning in fiscal year 22, there was a discrepancy between what was actually appropriated at town meeting and what was reported in that transfer out column.

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So in fiscal year 2022, there was a small difference of I mean that's it's Well, small. It's still um a reporting variance of $40,000. What was reported was $3.135 million, when reality it was $3.095 million.

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It picks up beginning in fiscal year 2023. So, in the warrant we report we or I'm sorry, in the report we reported that there was nearly $2.8 million expended or excuse me, appropriated and $1.45 million was actually what was

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appropriated by town meeting. We had the inverse problem in fiscal year 24 where the sort of the signage flipped. We reported that there was $8.6 million appropriated, but in reality we had spent or excuse me, I keep making that error, appropriated $10.4 million.

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And this is the one where it it sort of became most apparent because that in that year, fiscal year 24 was the year that we appropriated the $7 million for the DPW money. And that money came directly out of the capital expenditure fund. So, that $8.5 million, if you track if you subtract, you know,

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the $7 million from there, um you know, it just sort of looked off. Um and then the same issue going into to 2025 and and 2026. So, what I've done in the transfers out column is replicated what was actually appropriated at town meeting

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for those fiscal years. And I got to a ending balance for or really I guess a a beginning balance for for fiscal year 2027 of $704,000 roughly, which puts us at about $130,000

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short of the 2% of our omnibus budget that the balance or excuse me, our financial policy states that the balance in the capital expenditure fund should be roughly 2% of our omnibus budget. The $704,000 is roughly $830,000 short of that financial

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policy watermark. Now, I will note that this uh I I a little little bit about what happens when there's money left over. Uh if you recall at the May town meeting, we closed some projects

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uh that were um either complete or we took some money away from projects that were ongoing, but it was deemed, you know, we could we could just shave a little bit off that. Uh that's why that in [clears throat] the transfers in for fiscal year '27, that number is um

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beefed up a bit because of those turnbacks. So, we had uh some number from the DPW project that went back in, we had some um [clears throat] money from school HVAC work that went back in, and so on. Um and that's sort of the long and short of

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the like quick and dirty financial analysis. Any questions on this? And I apologize for this on my computer looked bigger, so I apologize it's a little small. >> Frank, I have one question if I may. Uh so, back when you slide number one, you're talking about what goes into

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creating the capital expenditure fund. Uh slide number two, there you go. So, you at this point do not have concerns that where we are today with the yellow highlighted columns, those erroneous numbers, >> [clears throat] >> you don't have concerns that you're sharing with the board today that it has

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anything to do with how we're handling, addressing the operating budget, how we're addressing free cash, interest earned, cell tower interest, how that money's coming in and being put into the capital expenditure fund. These are not our areas of concern. Is that fair to

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say? >> Um I don't have any. I think it would be better to have someone else have the final say. But, in my [clears throat] So, like I said, I pulled the Munis transaction level detail back to 2008, and things tend to add up with the money the money inside.

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>> Okay. So, our funding mechanisms are not in high not uh areas high concern >> Right. today. Okay. >> Um so, just like I'm just trying to understand. So, basically, um if as I see it, you're you're saying like

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basically the first slide when you talked about like the transfers from 2008 to 2013, everything tied. >> Yep. >> Um 14 through 20, tied. And then we got to 21, things started to kind of be off in 20 in 2023, and we saw some

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issues for a couple years there. Um we can get into some of the specifics on like what is actually happening there, but I'm trying to understand here. So, basically what we're [snorts] saying the the the real issue we're seeing is that we're not we we weren't tying the transfer the

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appropriations from town meeting to the transfers out of the capital expenditure fund. Is that fair to say? >> Yep. >> Okay. And then but we were okay with like expenditures against those articles. Um everything was okay on that side of things. >> Uh true like true expenditures coming

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out. Yeah, I think that so far I think that that's true. >> Everything seems to >> Yeah. >> What from what your research is showing that that is that that is accurate. So, >> [clears throat] >> really the issue we're having is just basically the the stuff that's coming out of town meeting wasn't tying to how we're reporting the transfers out

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of the capital expenditure fund. >> Correct. >> Okay. Okay. Got it. Thank you. >> Yeah, no problem. >> David, are you good? >> I'm good. >> Okay. >> Um so, what are some of the controls that were

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in that that could be in place and were in place that we'll make sure and again we're we're still there's still some next steps to talk about here, but as a bare minimum, what are some of the next steps that we could look at to ensure that this type of thing doesn't happen again. So, I'm actually going to go back to the prior slide, and I know it's very

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difficult to see, but in fiscal year 2020, you'll see an ending balance of roughly 6 and 1/2 million. In fiscal year year fiscal year 2021, you'll see an ending balance of roughly 7 million. And then um, fiscal year '22, you'll see

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7.14 million. In MUNIS, we had mechanisms, um, previously that would allow us to calculate what's called our undesignated fund balance, and that should tie to basically the money that's left to spend. So, you'll see in fiscal year

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'20, it is exactly It is exactly the same, 6 and 1/2 million dollars, right down to the dollar. Uh, in fiscal year '21, 7.026 million. And then again, in fiscal year '22, that's when the variance starts to, um,

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exist, I guess. Um, and so you can carry this this this fiscal year '22, '23 proceeds, but I thought this screenshot would suffice basically to show that there is a control in MUNIS that we can use to make sure that that basically what we're what we have, >> [clears throat] >> um,

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our accounting mechanisms internally are tying to what we're reporting externally. Um, and so we want to make sure that we're we're doing that moving forward. >> So, that speaks to a process issue. So, you What I think I hear you saying is that there's a feature that you can use within the software we use that we

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hadn't been using before. Or hadn't been using appropriately or well. >> Yes. >> Okay. And that if we control for that, that's part of the solution. So, that to me speaks like, uh, again, a process issue. Um,

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I We're not here to talk about personnel issues, but I think that's a a conversation that you'll have internally whether people are using MUNIS and the features that are available in the way that they're supposed to, as well. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Um, can you go back um, like one slide

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here? Just sort of to I got one quick question here. So, we're saying these are unaudited totals for this, okay? The previous ones, the ones that we have reported at the back of the town meeting, uh, weren't were audited totals? >> Uh, which town Which town meeting, sir?

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The >> go back a couple slides here. When you go back to the first the first one, keep going. Keep going. That. Are those audited? >> Um I I don't know. I should have just put unaudited. I think I did. >> It's actually being it's it's being

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vetted. >> Yeah. >> I'm just sort of I'm I'm asking sort of the general question there is that you know um like you know we have things like auditing to help us catch these kinds of things. >> Mhm.

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>> And to me like I look at that and it's like that seems pretty like I don't want to be a jerk, but it seems kind of basic to be able to just tie what came out of town meeting to what's in the transfers. And I'm just kind of like how did the auditor miss that? It's kind of what I'm asking here. I mean one of the things

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that I I recall is that we did change auditors at some point in this period. Um and you know was that a factor? And I certainly want to have a question we want I would want to go in depth when that auditor comes in front of us and presents their auditing results. >> Mhm. >> Like what are we doing here and how did

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this get missed? Because I think it is operationally there should be controls. That's the whole point of having auditors. Is to catch this kind of stuff if you ask me. And I may not necessarily be kind of outside looking in, but I don't I'm a little disappointed that this went on for a few years and wasn't

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caught by a party that in my mind is paid to catch it. So anyway, moving on. >> Yeah, no and I and I would just to clarify uh clarify the first question you made. [clears throat] I put unaudited uh on the slides just to clarify that um we haven't yet like this

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isn't the product of a third party. This is >> Absolutely. And I don't want to make anyone think that's the same thing. And I and I and I I I applaud you for you know you're giving us kind of a sense of like what you saw and how you kind of came to this conclusion and you're going to have somebody vet your your work which I think is >> a

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>> um a reasonable thing to do to make sure that, you know, does this make sense? Does this sound? And I think that's I I applaud you for your transparency and your and your your initiative, well, not initiative, but your the your efforts to do so. So.

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Um All right. So, then we talk about um next steps. So, uh obviously we're going to continue with public outreach on this topic as there are new developments. This probably this exact same uh presentation

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um will probably be given to the finance committee. I've also spoken with uh Frank Ogura, the chair of the school committee, about giving the same presentation to them at a future uh soon-to-be-scheduled meeting. Um as I mentioned in at this meeting and then previously um we are engaging with

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a third party to complete an audit of the capital expenditure fund. Um we're also going to be engaging uh with a consultant to assist with a the closeout of the fiscal year 2025 closeout to help us make sure that we're going to have free cash certified by uh the time

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we get to fall town meeting. Our in our goal is to have everything to the DOR by the end of September, um which hopefully would give us plenty of wiggle room for uh having things by the third-ish week of October. Um in the meantime, we'll be working on scenarios to recommend to this board uh

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to close the funding gap. Um and at least one of those scenarios I think we've talked about other other other uh scenarios to consider as well. But one of those scenarios will be what happens if we don't have enough free cash or we're not going to be using free cash to close it. That's not to say that we're just going to that one of my

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recommendations would be um oh, well, there's a million dollars of free cash, so just put it all in there and that's how that's how we'll close the gap. Um but that would that is a scenario that we should think about. Um as mentioned, we'll look at um how to restore the

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previous municipal practice of ensuring a reported undesignated fund balance ties to our balance reported available for appropriation for the capital expenditure fund. And then um any additional policies and procedures that that third party comes in and says we should implement, obviously we will be all ears on that.

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Um and again, I'll go back to the first the first step and just say that obviously the public outreach on this topic will continue. Um we'll likely put uh the you know, the memos, this presentation, and recordings of this presentation on a standalone uh part of the website. Um and obviously anyone

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with questions is more than welcome to reach out directly to the town manager's office with with questions. >> Should there be like maybe a press release or something to sort of to keep people updated at some point just to sort of say here's the latest on this so that there's Yep, some sort of print documentation or something like >> And I yep, and that reminded me that um

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we did So, an un or the most recent update will be included in not this one, but the prior update will be uh touched on a little bit in the uh August edition of the local town pages. I'm also going to do a Just Thinking episode with John Cronin. Um and so and then we can do the uh a

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press release as well. >> I just like I just thinking about just trying to get as many different avenues to to get information out there because not everybody consumes the same media. >> Mhm. >> And Frank, just to follow up, so obviously the the munis practice is very low-hanging fruits and something that I

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guess easy to implement is the wrong word, but it's a it's a practice that we can put under our belts pretty quickly. I I noticed that you're talking about obviously we're going to be awaiting some feedback from auditors that can imply other policies and procedure changes. Um I'm assuming that you already have some in mind as well, but you're kind of holding those back until

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we get more information. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> All right, enough said then. >> I appreciate it. Any other questions for Frank? >> Is this the last page in the presentation? >> It should be. Yep, it is. >> Okay, just checking [laughter] just checking if there's anything else after that. Are you holding back, Frank? >> Just one question. So, with the five six

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next steps up there, But will we next get a significant update from you on those? >> So, I think what Damon and I have talked about was moving forward this will be a standing agenda item on the select board's agendas, meeting agendas for the

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foreseeable future. Um and so as we have updates, you know, I can I can make sure that you know, we're they're spoken to as as soon as I have them. >> I guess I'm looking at number four there. The uh select board action. >> yeah. Um >> Cuz I think this is an exercise for this

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board and and hopefully for those listening, it's an exercise in patient and restraint while we go through the process of understanding and so just framing out when it is that action will be taken could be helpful. Certainly would be helpful for me to understand, help with that restraint and patience

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while we go through all of this which is absolutely what's called for and understanding then when, you know, the moment comes for decisions that are steps to address, to rectify, to correct. When is that coming? But I think we're weeks away.

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>> I would say weeks. I would hope for maybe your second meeting before the end of August certainly, before the end of August. >> That's helpful. Thank you. >> Mhm. >> Just to throw another wrench in there, I would actually add to like I'd like to Um one of the things I want to talk

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about in my my comments tonight is moving ahead with uh DPW, thinking about the DPW, funding the DPW and I know that certainly something we sort of have to consider in this this process and I'd like to um cuz one of the things I think was uh

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something that we could have that I could have done better in May was trying to get ahead with the finance committee to see if there was anything we could do to talk through some of those things. We had a working group previously. Is there something we can do there? But we kind of need a little more solidity there before we can move forward and have

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those conversations. You're You're laugh at me. Why are you laughing? >> No, no, I have a question. I have a question for you. >> Yeah. >> So, what I haven't heard in this presentation has anything to do with nothing to do with projects. So, what we haven't identified are policy decisions that this board, the

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finance committee, the capital expend the capex What is it called? The subcap cap You know what I'm trying to say, the capital subcommittee. Thank you. This What I haven't heard put forward as either an explanation for or a part of the next steps here is going back to

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those policy decisions or even looking forward to future policy decisions with the exception of number four. So, my my question would be why bring up a project? >> Because we've talked about previously that one of the play the only places that we could do money is with the DPW project if we

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were to move back money. Cuz there isn't a lot of money in other places. I'm not saying that's going to happen, but we need to have some answers about that before we can sit down with Cuz if we are going to do that, then that sort of changes the financial questions. And if we don't do that, it changes the financial questions. And I'd

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like to be able to have those conversations sooner than later. And I'd like to have some understanding of if any of those things are going to happen. >> Does that sit within number four there in terms of a a strictly a backup plan? So, another recommendation or you like is that another next step that you're proposing?

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>> I didn't propose anything. I'm just saying that I'd like to have some answers because that was thrown out there and conversations. I think Frank even mentioned it in this presentation. And I just like to have um I'd like to have it figured out sooner so that way we can go

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to the finance committee and say, "Hey, this is what we've done. We figured this out with the capital." Because I don't want this hanging over a conversation with them about trying to fund the DPW project. Cuz we need to have some of those conversations. We need to get ahead of it because we only have a 25% funding from the previous override that we

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passed for DPW across the street, which may or may not be, but we have to we have another conversation after we listen to Samson. I'd like to move forward on those things, too. >> Then I wonder if we're tracking so to take Ben's concern and to add it to a list of things that we're tracking as next steps, we ought to include

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something that is a review of project funding. Put that up there because it sounds like review of project funding may be or I might be missing entirely. >> But actually I would say I would actually make it a a bigger which is review all outstanding warrant articles.

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Frankly, not just this and this is one of them. This is just a big one, that's why. But I think all those articles should be reviewed to make sure are they right? Are they still there? Are we closing them because there could be opportunities in some of this. I know we went through that exercise previously, but because it's germane to a capital

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expenditure funding, it's the appropriation in the first place that sort of led us down this path. I think we should be let's do it again and be a little bit more with a little bit more scrutiny. Is this right? Is this where it is? Is this everything timed correctly to each of those articles? >> So much much more comprehensive view.

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>> Yes, it's just that this one happens to be the largest one and it is also something that is ongoing that we need to continue [clears throat] to have conversations about funding. >> Okay, and just to make sure I'm perfectly clear cuz this is important what you're saying. I want to make sure I'm really following what you're saying is you're in your mind that is under the

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item of closing the funding gap. I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing cuz I don't see anything else on there that to me would suggest we're reviewing projects. It makes sense what you're saying. >> Yes, it would be closing the funding gap. It would be closing the funding gap and then furthermore is I think we not

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only have to close the funding gap, how are we going to do so? But then the second question of from that would be how are we going to cuz it would lead to how you funding the DPW project. Because we have to have a conversation about the capital that's there and the

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um uh the potential for an overrun. >> Doesn't that go back to the operating budget that as a as a funding mechanism for the capital expenditure fund which at this point we're not questioning. So doesn't the So to your point about

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moving forward to continue to fund the DPW project, doesn't that come back to how we fund CapEx in general which is through the operating budget? Okay, I'm >> No, no, what we're what I'm trying to do is like basically because the working group came up with a proposal to fund the project across street. >> Mhm.

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>> And it was a mix of capital through the CapEx fund. Um in override money and then there was some money within the operating budget as is is part of is in inclusive debt within within the budget. And [clears throat] we need to go back and revisit that because the proposal we had

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previously um in May was shot down. And we have to number one, either we if we have to have a conversation about are we going forward with Cross Street because that's a different funding mechanism. We don't know how it's how much it's going to cost. We've got to go through that. And then two, if we're going to go back to

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Arch, we need to figure out what that looks like because I want I don't want to sit on that longer than we need to, but I also need this to be feel like this should be resolved before we can have that conversation. >> Forgive me if I sound like I'm challenging. I'm really not. I'm just trying to understand cuz what you're saying is important and uh

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>> I want to fund the DPW. That's basically Take take that as the as basically the the genesis of this is that that's it. And I want this resolved before I want to have that conversation. That's really what I'm saying. >> Okay, thank you. Thanks for clarifying. Okay. >> No, it's a good question. It's a good question. Thank you for

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asking. >> Anything further? All right. Frank, thank you for the download. As you mentioned, we'll be expecting updates on this going forward at every one of our meetings even if it's just a little bit of an update to let us know things are in progress. Obviously, when larger pieces of

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information become available, I know there are a lot of people who will asynchronously be very interested in this conversation. And for what it's worth, I think it's a good learning experience for a lot of people who are paying attention just a little and that aperture is going to be closed. >> Uh isn't there not necessarily watching

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live? Yep, they're kind of reviewing it as they as they [clears throat] encounter things online. >> Got it. >> Um which I think is important because they're um the worry [clears throat] that we see flares up when we're not necessarily focused on it. And so we kind of have to be ready to answer questions at any time. Or so I think.

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All right, [clears throat] thank you very much. >> Thank you, Frank. Thanks for the update. Appreciate it. >> Appreciate it. Of course. Uh all right, moving on. We have another Frank spot. Community Preservation Committee Funding Request. Frank, would you like to tell us what this is about, what your ideas, and what you'd like to do?

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>> Yes, so there've been and I think Tina can speak to uh a little bit of this too, but there've been a lot of conversations about housing and particularly increasing the town's housing stock that have uh come from a number of boards and committees in town. Um I think part of that has to do with the recent

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completion Well, what year was that? I think 2024 was the year that the Housing Production Plan was completed. Um and shortly thereafter the town adopted its three its MBTA/3A zoning as required and then also um

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moved to um allow for ADUs by right again per state mandate. So that I think maybe now that those two things are sort of in the rearview, uh a number of boards and committees have reached out about, you know, specific questions, technical I would say I would call the questions very technical in nature. And on the

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Human Services side, we've also seen uptick in the need for affordable housing. Um and just generally more housing in general. And so to meet some of these needs, um we brainstormed a little bit with some staff internally and um

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toyed around with a couple of different ideas and I think where we may have landed here is a sort of pilot membership for the town of Holliston in a shared housing services office, which is hosted in Hopkinton. The the individual or excuse me, the party doing the work is actually a a

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contracted consultant. Um and so um that that that firm uh offers these services to a number to a number of area towns. Hopkinton, as I mentioned, Medway, Medfield. Um there are numbers out There are a number of others out by

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sort of the Norwood and Milton area. And the idea would be for uh this uh this firm to provide uh 1 2 3 4 I have five different deliverables. Uh so the first would be a point of contact for residents seeking

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housing options. And what that would allow our human services folks, namely youth and family services and the Council on Aging, to put them directly in uh put someone who's looking for affordable housing options directly in touch with sort of like one point of contact.

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Um the uh other deliverable would be monitoring eligibility of current renters in affordable units. Um so this is actually a a requirement um that we need to I think get up to speed on a little bit. Uh so basically that is to say that if there's a renter in an affordable unit and maybe their

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situation has changed quite a bit and technically they aren't eligible for that unit any longer, uh this consultant would go ahead and do that work for us to ensure that that unit is available to someone who actually would would qualify in the in the present. >> So you're saying that's currently a requirement and at the moment we're maybe doing it piecemeal if at all?

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>> Correct. >> Okay. Got it. >> Thank you. >> Um I talked a little bit about how this sort of rose to the top uh via requests from boards and committees. Um this group would also be able to provide technical assistance to staff, boards, and committees uh in support of

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work related to achieving the goals identified in the Housing Production Plan. Um so that would include, you know, research, attendance at meetings, that type of thing. Um the Housing Production The Housing Production Plan um outlines 13 different

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strategies. and we've achieved two of them and those are the two that we were required to do the 3A zoning and the accessible um not accessible dwelling unit. Is it ADUs? Let's just call them ADUs. Um

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that we were required to adopt by by state excuse me by state legislation. And so this person this this firm would be a resource to the town in trying to explore how to achieve those 11 other strategies. Um and another um

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great idea that I'll give our our staff for coming up with this idea coming up with ways to host public-facing events to raise an awareness about affordable housing options and the application processes which I didn't have a full appreciation

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for like how sort of cumbersome and confusing that process can be. Um and so in addition to like being the point of contact you know we we discussed maybe having um them host sort of seminars of sorts to come in and explain the different

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processes and application processes that are associated with applying for some of the units that are available. Um I feel pretty strongly that this is something that would be eligible under Community Preservation Committee allowable expenditures.

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Um a model that I've observed in other towns is actually um a portion of the town planner's salary for instance might be supplemented by CPC funds. That is not the angle we're we're going here. I think in theory we could go out and

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find or excuse me and request a an actual part-time position um to be funded on an annual basis via CPC via a CPC appropriation. Um but in speaking with our Youth and Family Services and Council on Aging staff we're a little

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hesitant to add another staff member just over to the the piece of our human services puzzle right now. Um and this actually might be a great opportunity for us to see what the true need is and how we then cater to that need um in the future. Um and so that was sort of how this this

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came to be. Um you know, at least talked about initially and then we had a meet Cheryl, myself, and Cynthia Lustednic attended a meeting with the uh staff in Hopkinton who sort of managed the the effort on behalf of the member towns. Um

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and we think it would be a great fit. >> Great question. Um so you're billing this potentially as a pilot program. >> Correct. >> What is kind of the your envisioned length of the pilot and the kind of the success parameters at the end of it to know whether or not it's worth it. I know you have some of it in the document but worth sharing but >> Oh yeah, I know, absolutely. Sorry, I

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was just [clears throat] going to Why reinvent the wheel? I'm just going to read off what I wrote. Um so first of all, I set aside um the application is for $30,000. Uh from what we saw what other towns appropriate, the ballpark is anywhere

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between 15 and and 25. My understanding is that none of them um none of the other towns host these like public-facing seminars um that we had talked about so I added on an additional five. Uh I think that number is you know, we could probably get away with a little bit less but that

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that number was the placeholder. Uh so the three areas uh that I listed in the CPC application for how success will be measured will be uh and and maybe it's number one but it's also probably first and foremost, um the number of positive outcomes uh and placements for those

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seeking affordable housing options. Uh specifically, how many folks have navigated the affordable housing process, completed applications, and ultimately obtained housing. Um second would be instances of requested and received technical assistance by local boards and

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committees. The housing production plan actually names the individual So it lays out the different strategies and the names, the um the boards and committees that are sort of the the you know, tasked with those individual action items. So, that would be this

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board, the planning board, the newly named Affordable Housing Trust, uh the Council on Aging, and others. Um and so, those groups would could seek out this group for um for technical assistance. And then again, we mentioned that if possible, hosting at least one

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community {slash} resident-facing event to explain eligibility, the application process, waitlist procedures, and other information that uh that would be helpful for the placement process. >> So, points one and two, those are two metrics that um this contractor is already going to be measured?

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>> Correct. And And those were things that we we went into the meeting with the folks in Hopkinton with those two things. Like, those are sort of the deal breakers. Like, we we must have those two things. And um we received confirmation that those were services that that are are rendered

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elsewhere. >> Any questions? >> Yeah, I got a couple. >> Yeah. >> Um I think the first thing I would say is that um I have applaud you for putting this forward cuz I feel like the CPC has a major component in housing, and there's I have not seen much happening on the

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housing side for their for their activity. Um I think uh one question I have here is it would it be prudent for this individual contractor, whoever it is in particular, to be able to make recommendations for any changes to

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process, zoning, anything like that as part of what they could do? Um you know, I mean, again, I kind of point to, you know, the CPC, one of their one of their pillars is housing. And there's not a lot of things happening on that side of things, not a lot of applications, there's not a lot of that

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I've [snorts] seen or heard about. And I'm just wondering, you know, I feel like this is sort of something that's that I I I think we should be talking about and should be exploring to see if there's other opportunities, other programs, other grants, anything or anything we could be doing in terms of

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some of those expenditures with CPC or are there other places that we could be making changes that could have meaningful impact on better housing. And I I think that that I I would like to see something in it some point with that if that's at all feasible or possible if this might be

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you know might be might be post pilot you well cuz we want to make sure it works in the immediate as an operational activity but then also are there other recommendations that could be made to make changes further down the road. >> Yeah, I think that would certainly fall under

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um technical expertise or or technical assistance for the boards and committees that play here and staff as well. >> Sure. >> Um you know sort of like a review of you know here's what we got, what do you think maybe what what could we tweak a little bit. I also think the benefit of uh >> [clears throat] >> for Holliston is that our housing

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production plan is so fresh. >> Yeah. >> And it talks about I think it talks about some maybe some of those things but it also talks about things like not uppercase um affordable housing but also house the middle housing, senior housing

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um that uh I think that there would be a lot to work with there. So I I think the the answer to your question I think is yes. Yes, absolutely. >> And then uh my second question here is is that you know we're we're talking about this as a a CPC funding request. Let's say it's a successful pilot.

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>> Mhm. >> What happens after that? >> I think we would have two options. One would be to continue with sort of this annual request or we could potentially do a you know we sign a five-year agreement

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or something like that and we get the we get the funding on a multi-year basis from the CPC. Um if the CPC or the select board or town meeting is not um comfortable with funding sort of an annual appropriation out of the uh the CPA funds for this purpose, then we would

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need to find a way to fund it out of the operating budget. >> How much is in the CPC? >> For the uh housing uh portion of >> Housing and in general? >> I think it's a million for housing. We got an update today in the housing trust meeting that it's uh sitting at about a

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million-dollar balance for the >> And there is there any Do you know if there's any projects or anything? >> To your point, not a lot of activity, not a lot of applications. >> Becky. >> Mhm. >> I just have two questions or one question and a comment. Uh so the the

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housing trust did review recently, this morning actually in our meeting, that uh we used to have something like it's called it was was called the single-family home ownership program. Last active in 2017, and in 2017 it placed two families into affordable

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lower case A affordable homes. That program has laid fallow for the the past number of years. Um I would like that question asked uh of the group in Hopkinton, this consulting pilot uh proposal. Can is that something they can support and um

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help with? We had it running successfully in the past, uh but I believe some of the volunteers on the housing trust has have changed. Um and so is is that something that they can help with? Cuz that was a successful program as recently as 2017 placing families in affordable homes. And then

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can they help us get to the housing choice designation that the state is looking for us to get to? >> Yeah, and that one actually um that one we're actively working on with MAPC, so hopefully before we can get there, we will >> We're not looking for this pilot program

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to accomplish that. >> Right, but I mean if we um it's not that we I don't think they can help us with that, is that I hope that that's even a non-issue by the time we get to the beginning of the calendar year or next next [clears throat] calendar year. >> Six-month or 12-month pilot? >> Uh 12-month. >> Okay. Okay. Almost there.

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>> One other one other quick point. Uh, just thinking about I think you you there is a need out there. I mean, I remember with COVID we had renters assistance and it was well used. I think we went through two rounds. Is that all right, team? >> Yep. Yep. >> Went through two rounds. I mean, I granted that was an extraordinary period

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of time, but you know, I I could I could see that, you know, some people are on the edge at times and having opportunities to to help people who either find affordable houses or stay in homes that they're currently

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inhabiting, I think is a powerful and important thing we need to do. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we can talk to Kathy about that, too. >> Kathy Young. >> Okay. That's I did not know that. Thank you. >> I I think I'm trying to administer it. What was it? I don't think it was even family services. I don't remember who did the whole thing. Chief would know.

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>> You can ask the chief cuz he was there. >> He we we had We had a meeting >> and then 50. >> Yeah, we met with we met with Chief every every week for uh I think like 2 years. And uh we love the chief, but uh we got a little sick of >> Too much Too much chief. >> Too much COVID. >> I know it was the COVID we got sick of.

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>> [laughter] >> I think if I may one last >> know the details. >> one last comment, if the CPC is circling back around with questions for more evidence or justification or you're wanting to strengthen the presentation that you're you're developing for the CPC, just reaching out to Greg Carey,

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the chair of the housing trust. >> Sure. >> Now named the affordable [clears throat] housing trust. Just a tremendous amount of insight and probably could give you some you need them. Don't think you do, but if you're feeling like you need them, I think he could give you some strengthening justifications for how it would benefit

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the work of the affordable housing trust. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I will loop him in regardless to the uh assuming the board is good with this. Uh, I will loop Greg in on the uh the email to uh Frank Chamberlin and company. >> Okay. Great.

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>> Frank, is this something for which need anything from us? >> So, that's a great question. I I I'm not sure if the board typically uh reviews and approves these types of things where this would be a relatively new thing for Holliston. I thought it warranted at least a conversation at the board level, but I'm not sure a full vote is is

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necessary. >> it's usually our vote if it's going to be a warrant article and we want to put it on the warrant. >> Mhm. >> Or I mean it sounds like it's more of an operational decision of your on your part. >> That's fair. >> So, I mean I don't think it's a you know, we're I I'm not opposed to beefing

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it up and saying the select board supports this proposal, but at the same time, you know, it's I I would say it's up to you cuz I'm sure you can go to CPC with a funding proposal as the town manager of >> Yeah. >> I can why don't I just roll with it for the for and then maybe

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>> I can get some feedback and if they want to if they sometimes they do say look well is the select board supporting us and it's like you have a consensus, you don't necessarily need a vote. >> We can always formalize if needed. We can probably formalize it. >> We'll do. >> I'll just make Damon do it. >> [laughter] >> Happy to do it. Thanks. >> All right. Anything else?

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>> That is it for me. I will keep keep you all posted as as it progresses. >> Wonderful. All right. Well, thank you very much, Frank. We appreciate it. Uh let us know how it goes. >> We'll do. >> Curious to hear. All right. Next up uh discuss request to fly the Brazilian flag from September 3rd to September

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10th in commemoration of Brazilian Independence Day. Frank, do you want to give us a briefing and then invite anyone up who needs to come up? >> Sure. So, uh we had a request from a resident to uh fly the uh the national flag of Brazil during the first week of

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September to commemorate um Brazilian Independence Day. Um as in the past, you know, we've had folks who requested flags uh to be flown up at our square. Um so, I should have made that more clear on the agenda, but it is specifically at the Blair Square flagpole location.

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Right there. Okay. Just making sure. >> [laughter] >> Um and so, Mr. McLennan had uh made that request and he is in attendance this evening. >> Great. Would you like to come up and join us and tell us a little bit about what you've got in mind? >> Sure. >> Thank you.

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Please state your name and your address for the record. >> Walter McLennan, 29 School Street. And the town manager did reference a a note that I had sent to his [snorts] office seeking to fly

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the Brazilian flag from the 3rd to the 10th of September commemorating Brazilian Brazil Independence Day. I had been thinking about the town's strategic plan and

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the efforts of uh stressing diversity and inclusion in our town and welcoming new people. And my wife and myself have a particular interest in Brazilians in that we had been when we graduated from college we went to Brazil and

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served in the Peace Corps and we met many good people there. >> [snorts] >> And friends that we actually continue with until today. But then the history is much longer than that in the late 1980s we are both educators and I was working

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in Framingham at that time and I started to notice a number of Brazilians were coming into the school system in Framingham and that was something new. It's sort of a new immigrant group. Portuguese had come in earlier but then Brazilians were coming in in the late 1980s. So that was sort of a marking point for

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me and then when I worked in school administration schools I saw I worked with parents coming from Brazil and stuff. And then more recently in the last really last 30 years or 40 years you many of you probably have noticed too if you see

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someone building a wall around in a construction project or painting houses, cleaning houses, roofing houses, staffing restaurants, maybe starting restaurants locally. Often they're Brazilians and so it's a

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new immigrant group in our in Massachusetts certainly, in the United States also, but certainly in Massachusetts. And uh it's impacting Holliston, too. It's not that I have a lot of Brazilian friends in town. I I I don't particularly, but I know that Brazilians

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are here and I talk with them in Portuguese with their working in our neighborhood. My wife works in the food pantry and if some Brazilians have some difficulties with the communication there, she can speak with them. So they're an important immigrant population and I thought in terms of our strategic plan,

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it might be nice to fly the Brazilian flag for a week. And so I made the proposal. I've had some communication with Tina Hein on it. Uh uh [snorts] sort of with an asterisk of,

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you know, if national flags can be flown with the flag policy of March 2024 if I'm correct. Uh and I don't really know the answer to that question. Uh but I'm well aware that there could be some issues related to that, but I

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wanted to make the proposal and uh have have the discussion perhaps, you know, where would the town go with this? I have a Brazilian flag with that's a nice size and my wife and I would be happy to uh make that contribution and go up for a week. Uh

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and I think Brazilians um in the town working here and um uh some of them living here would feel good about that. It wasn't a World Cup year for them, but >> [laughter] >> I think they like to be recognized. [clears throat]

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Uh so, that's what I would say. I don't know if you have questions. Oh, I have one thing I just I share with you. I was in March I was driving around town looking at American flags and on Central Street yeah I'll give one for each of you. Uh and I sent one to Tina I think in an email.

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I have copies for you. I saw the American flag flying with the Brazilian flag and I thought it was so so cool. You know I don't know who lives there. I assume it's a Brazilian family and maybe not but it's nice seeing the two flags flying together. The Brazilians

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love to fly the flag and it might be nice if Holliston fly the flag of of welcome. That's a simple uh sort of background for my request. >> [snorts] >> Thank you for bringing >> I'd be happy to answer any questions or >> Defer to you as the uh clerk. >> Um no I don't think I have any any

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questions. I appreciate the proposal. I think we have I think most of the discussion needs to happen with us to sort of understand uh cuz the question I would throw to the board is something that you kind of alluded to is it's it's along the lines of you know is this is it is it the policy

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of the board to fly for any Independence Day. You know because because cuz realistically uh you know there are many that could be in that conversation and so I I'd want to have that conversation

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uh as part of that to sort of understand that um what the what the board thinks so but I appreciate you bringing it forward. I think it's a it's a it's a good conversation that we should have. So thank you. >> Okay. >> Tina >> You ended on a really um I think a pretty significant statement which was

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to fly the flag uh flag of to fly the flag of welcome. >> Yes. >> Uh which I think is to say that this is an an effort which I think you've explained as well an effort to welcome the diversity of another culture into our community which I agree with you is a part of the strategic plan.

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I think there's also a question I won't say challenge but a question in what you're proposing to back to us as a town as a as a board here is is is it political? So the policy is clear that uh political speech is for the select board

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on behalf of the town of Holliston. And so you know, is to fly a national flag of another country, is that political speech or not? So I think that's the question and to be debated, to be discussed. I was looking at our flag schedule for

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Blair Square. I I think I'm missing one or two, but what we have on that is in November we fly the transgender remembrance flag. >> Mhm. >> In April we fly the Tree City USA flag. In June we fly the Pride flag. And and going back to May we we

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fly the Police Remembrance flag. I'm missing one or two in there, but they're not It's not cut and dry and so clear how those choices are made. And so in trying to justify for me like well how are we making these decisions? I come

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back to my notes here where you know, does it match the strategic plan of the town? And you've addressed that. I also look to to does it is it supported here in town by an organization by a group that's doing programming or effort? Like

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when you think of something like Police Remembrance flag, I mean we have an organization behind that flag that is that is taking steps to do additional recognition of and supporting of what the flag is flying for.

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So that that you know, I I think that becomes a component for this board in making a decision like this. I still come back to I accept your your request as an

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intention to welcome diversity. Fully accept that on face value and deeper as well. The board's dilemma is is it political speech? >> Mhm. >> And that's what our policy is pretty clear on. So I I don't have an answer, but to Ben's point I think that's for

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this board to deliberate on. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Um with you as a board, should we chat about it right now, or do you need some time to research and think? >> Um I think I'd like a little time to sort of think about it. I mean, I think the you know, the Brazilian flag is a

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reasonable request, and I I would say that we you know, it's September 3rd, so we need to have an answer by the end of August to determine if that's appropriate. Um but I think I would say I would argue that we do need a little bit more Um we need a we we need a little more

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robust agenda item to be able to sort of iron that out a little bit. Um you know, in general as a policy. >> Mhm. >> Um I I think to sort of say like this is this is appropriate and this is this might be going too far. You know, that kind of thing if we are going to have that conversation. If it is board policy

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or things like that, where is that try to roughly cut out where that would be. >> What is your take on it, Ms. McLaughlin? >> Thank you for asking. Uh I I wasn't sure how the process worked, you know, so I went to the town manager's secretary and made the request because that's what I I gathered

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from the policy. I have read the policy uh and I'm very interested and pleased 2 years ago when the town I thought found found a good pathway to solve a very challenging problem. So, I like the policy uh and I've seen the flags flying. It's good. It seems to be working, but a

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number of questions came to me. How does this process? Uh is it a group that asks? Can an individual citizen ask? I'm asking as an individual citizen. Although my wife is part of it, too, but it's basically me. Uh the issue of national flags struck me, also. Is that an issue and

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[clears throat] needs to be discussed? I wasn't sure if I came here whether it'd be discussed at this meeting or perhaps in some other forum or a later meeting. Now, I'm learning, and this is great. So, I I think I see it a little bit me trying to help the board process uh

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a challenging area of flag display that has come up that the town has done well with so far and uh personally I will be pleased if the flag can be flown. If there are reasons that it shouldn't be flown because of the

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direction the board is is feeling is the best for the town with this new flag policy I won't be disappointed. I'll be happy that the board is sort of maybe ironing out some issues with it. Probably uh

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in another year or so you may have me coming with another request not for a country or something like that but uh just for an example I'm flying a peace flag now in my house because I've just always advocated for that and throughout

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my life all I see is war around us so we thought we would fly the peace flag back from 70s and 60s and that's nice so I thought well maybe the peace flag could go up at Leary Square I don't know. I don't know because the policy is relatively new so uh

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I might come before you again with another request and I respect the decision of the board and I respect particularly that you may need to discuss it more because sometimes there's a desire to well let's just take the action. I respect greatly that you

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you feel it should be discussed. I think it's something that is along those lines and I've offered myself to the manager if he ever wanted to speak with me about you know why a request like this comes in [clears throat] I'm available. >> Okay. >> So I'm comfortable with whatever you do just so long as I I know the reasons for it.

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>> Sure. >> Um I'm very pleased that the town of Holliston is working diligently to to to work on reasonable flag presentation for the town. That's all I have to say. >> Okay. Yeah. Something important there resonates with me. I I I'd like to

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for the discussion that we'll probably have, I'd like to set aside mentally the idea of the specific request for the Brazilian flag and really focus on request for national flags and other flags perhaps as well. Um I think that making a a decision that is one-off probably sets us up for problems in the

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long run. I'd like to be much more considerate and a lot more horizontal on that conversation. >> Yeah, having having a policy discussion. I think we've we've had them in the past and you know, we can have that that Blair score policy discussion. >> Yeah, should be interesting. >> If I could add just one other thing, if it's there is a time constraint that you

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mentioned, I'm the request is there and if it were to happen this year, that'd be great. If it would happen another year, be great. And so just pull that issue off the the table, if that helps you any, that's fine with me. Uh because I don't want anything done under under pressure. >> Appreciate that. Thank you. >> Yeah.

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>> Well, I will I think we'll put it on a future agenda. It sounds like we might have some probably questions to give to Frank as well as council, I would imagine, and then some but this discussion will be public in any Okay, so you want to >> Well, that's what I want I wasn't sure how that happened. >> Yeah, it would be a public discussion. >> Yeah, all of our all of our conversations essentially if they're

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policy setting have to be public. So it will it would be something you could be a part of or be around for. >> Yeah, well I if I knew it was taking place and Donna has informed me each time, you know, when something was going to come up so I'd I'd be happy to do >> to your agenda cuz I know where it's messy TV. [laughter] So we can always do that too if you want.

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>> But I'm going to hold his feet to the fire though. He did not answer the question. >> Mhm, what did I answer? >> Uh is a national flag a is it political speech in your mind? The flying of any not nation's flag, do you see that as political speech? >> I

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I the reason I hesitate is cuz the term political speech speech carries a legal uh weight and I'm not a lawyer. >> I think our policy defines that. Oh, sorry, not to Yeah, I >> The policy says that it's the the town's speech the

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speaker. So if you did it, the town would be the select board would be speaking for presenting Brazil. And is that political speech and I think it is. I mean, we're getting into the discussion that

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you might be getting into later. >> I value your opinion, so I'm not >> Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I think it's a I wanted to fly the flag, but I also wanted to try to understand better the flag policy of the town. It appears good

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what's written so far, but I'm not sure it has some of the details that you might need to work on at some point, so >> Well, inevitably it's people like yourself bringing these these tough questions forward that can best help us to to have those discussions and >> Yeah, that's great. And I've gotten to

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meet you all too, which is great. >> [laughter] >> Tell Caleb I said hi. >> I will do that. >> Thank you for bringing this for us. >> Yeah, thank you very much. Okay, thanks all. Bye. >> Folks don't know this, but the McLennons are why we have chickens. >> [laughter] >> I was so inspired I was so inspired by

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the fact that they had them and >> And my comment was because uh Walter's son was sitting next to me and many many fourth grade is the one I remember in particular, but there probably were others cuz I knew him many years. >> I don't think so. >> Deep roots. >> Yes. Well, a great example of respectful

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discourse on an important issue, which is much appreciated at this table. >> Excellent. All right, so Frank, please make note of that. It sounds like we have a boomerang topic to come back to. >> Add that to the backlog. >> Which brings us to >> Uh sorry, backlog is not a Didn't mean that in a

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>> parking lot. >> Yes, parking lot. >> I more meant like >> Which is which is worse? >> Damon and I were just talking >> The agenda document the >> [laughter] >> upcoming agenda document with topics >> list of things >> [laughter] >> Good deal. All right. On to public comments.

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Let's see. I usually begin with anyone in the room. Anyone here have any public comment? No. Going online? Please raise your hand or indicate you would like to speak if you would like to. Room is chalk full of digital people. Nope.

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Nothing there? Uh >> I would add that if people miss their opportunity, they can always email Donna Muzzy in the town manager's office for comments to be read at a future meeting. >> Yeah, I'm a little bit too expeditious in my movement there, but I appreciate that. Thank you, Ben. All right, I don't see

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any ask for public comment. Well, that being the case, I think we're moving on to select board member updates. We will begin with Ben. >> Yes. Um I mentioned one of the things that I wanted to sort of talk about. I would like to have a discussion at some point about DPW and moving forward what the uh plan is for

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the board. Um that's one thing. There's I have a couple uh things here. The second one was we had our first SBC uh school building committee meeting last week. Uh Barbara Ryan was chosen as the chair. Uh we hadn't chosen any other designees. Have we submitted to the >> We have. We are waiting confirmation

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that it was Every step along the way we submit it and they say, "We got it." >> And then they say, "We're certifying it." >> Yeah. >> So, we're waiting We're in that in-between stage where they just confirmed receipt and are certifying it. So, we're very excited. Um we're going to have another meeting on August 12th, I believe time was. It's the few cuz

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there's a bunch of documents that need to be submitted to the MSBA by the end of August. So, we're trying to get busy to make sure that we have all those things and we reviewed them. So, it's very exciting. Um the the main thing that we did the other day was uh to talk to make uh Barbara Ryan our chair. So,

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that's very exciting. Um and then um two other things here. Um the first is is that um uh Envision Future Holliston and uh Glenn Brown and I have been talking about uh conversation about master planning. >> Mhm.

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>> We're going to try to take it on the road to to go to other boards and committees and I'd like that to be an agenda item for this board to discuss. There's two items to it, which is number one, a master plan. How does the select board feel about a master plan and updating a master plan? And the second question is is uh Glenn

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is putting forward a proposal for a town bylaw for um consistent frequent updating of said master plan. >> Mhm. What's the cadence that he said? >> Um he was looking for like every five years sort of a soft like internal and

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every 10 years a hard, you know, going out and getting a real formal update. The the statistic and the thing that I thought was very peculiar and quite something eye-opening was is that so our master plan is from 1999. Um and I believe it got to phase two. It

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did not complete the full process. There's I forget how many phases, but there's multiple phases. And when we looked at all the towns in the MSBA 3A, we had the second oldest master plan in the entire Eastern Massachusetts. There was only

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one other that was older. It was like '96. But the other 170 or 170 communities had a more recent and I just think you know, when we're talking about housing, when we talk about economic development, when we're talking about sewers and those kinds of things, I I think that

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having those kinds of documents as updated as possible so that way we can ensure that the decisions that being made and the thoughts process that are going forward are as you know, pertinent and as updated as possible with with policy as well as with um

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um the the the weight and and the understanding of of of that. So I'd like to propose to having a conversation with this board to talk about that those proposals from from Glenn, myself and the envisioning future Holliston. So I'd like to make

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that an agenda item. And then the third thing is is that I would also like us to have a goals and planning meeting. That's going to be I I'd like to have that soon because it's getting you know, it's getting late already. It's getting later. We're going to be I mean the next meeting is in August. So we're starting to get towards where we really should be I'd like to you know,

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what are we going to do for town meeting? What are we What are we moving forward? So, those are Those are my updates and requests for future agenda items. So, thank you. Appreciate it. >> So, noted, Tina. >> Okay. I have just a couple. I need to get in contact, Ben, with Hillary Bresnahan of the School Committee. When we had the

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working group, we were developing the MOU memorandum of understanding. Waiting for the other shoe to drop in terms of the SBC sitting its chair and getting getting uh >> Yes. >> uh what getting started. So, that's all happened. So, I need to reach out to her. And then this board had casually talked about with the School Committee

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perhaps a joint statement. It's quiet right now, but we're about to enter back into the school >> on the school building committee as well. You know, he was on your working group, Frank Agora. >> Right, he's their designee. >> He's their designee. So, he's also involved in that process. >> Yes. Okay. >> So, he'd be a good one to talk to as well. >> All right. So, I'm just saying I have that on my to-do list and I will get on

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that this week. [clears throat] Uh related to um housing here in Holliston, I have one announcement to make. Uh August 3rd is the deadline to submit an application for home ownership for the house Habitat for Humanity home.

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Uh that's being renovated, upgraded, and made available at 550 Concord Street. So, it is a housing Habitat for Humanity affordable home. The deadline to submit an application to be in the lottery is August 3rd. The lottery will be drawn on

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September 3rd. Uh there are There was a public information session held at the library recently by Habitat for Humanity, and there's additional information available at Town Hall, uh the library, and also the ReStore in Ashland. So, folks who are listening or

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read about this or hear about this, please know that August 3rd is the deadline for uh submitting your application. And finally, related to that, this morning the Housing Trust uh had its meeting, and we voted unanimously to change the name to the

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Affordable Housing Trust. I believe that takes action by the select board, so that's a quick housekeeping item for our board at an upcoming agenda just to approve that. The justification for the name change is to bring us in alignment with state terminology so that when

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we're working with state programs, we're, you know, recognizing the the the same name. We're not, uh, you know, asking the question of, "Oh, well, do we have an affordable housing trust?" Because we have a housing trust. So, we just aligned the names so that we are in line

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with how the state uh terminology works. So, that's all I have for updates. Thank you. >> Excellent. Uh, Ben actually touched on mine. Uh, I think that it's high time that we have a forward-looking planning meeting and discussion meeting. So, uh, I will ask uh, our town manager to pull

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for a couple of times that we could do that. Um, I'm envisioning a conversation where if each of us want to submit policy ideas, legislative ideas, anything that we want to actually tackle as a board, and then we can have a long-form discussion about each of those. Um, my hope would be that we will

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kind of have a definition of each of those things we might want to tackle ahead of time so that we get into that meeting having either pre-read or at least pre-digested some of the issues that >> the Bezos method of meeting. >> Yeah, as you get a memo that you read before you start the actual conversation. >> Even at the meeting we'll be quiet for

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10 minutes as we read each one and make sure that everyone >> Basically, what he does is he asks everybody to give a memo, you read the memo, and then you have a conversation about it so you have all the background and you're not like watching a PowerPoint presentation trying to uh digest all this material. >> nice. >> It's quite a good method. I've lived under that regime. It can be very

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grueling as well, but I think it's quite useful. Uh, so that So, Frank, please, uh, at your earliest convenience, I I think Ben is right. We are marching quickly into the year, and the year moves quickly. Uh, so that >> And I would also add that, um, uh, scheduling is not subject to open meeting laws, so we can have a

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discussion on email if we need to. >> That's right. That's right. Yeah. Excellent. Uh, and that is all my major point. That's something that's been on my my quite a lot. Um, I'm curious to know how things will be going with I know there's various activities to organize local businesses and that's all ongoing, but we can talk about that at a later time. I'm very excited for some

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progress in the town. Um, I will leave it at that. So, on to warrants. Warrants time, Frank? >> Yes, so uh I have a number of them because we have a couple spanning a couple different fiscal years. Uh we're still in the process of closing out well, as of a couple weeks ago we were still in the process of closing out

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uh 20 six and now rolling to 27. Uh so for July 13th we had a warrant totaling 527,000 $318.86. Again, on July 13th $1,492,740.08.

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July 23rd, 2026, $24,029.83. Uh July 20th, uh $540,151.66. >> Thank you very much. Uh let's see. Wait, we don't need to vote on that, right? That's >> No. >> Let's tell me when you're done. All right, excellent. Thank you for the

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warrants, Frank. I am uh one of the things I'm struggling with obviously is we have the numbers and like at this point because we've vested you with a lot of that power, it's becoming more and more abstract for me. So, I'm finding I have to actually dedicate the time to look at the numbers myself. I don't know if you guys feel the same way, but it's one of those things where it's like, "Ah, here you go. You've got

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the grenade now." And I'm like, "Great, but I >> Well, that's kind of the problem. >> Yeah, that's >> We were asked to sign those things and I didn't have any of the background or understanding of like, "Oh, I'm signing payroll, but I don't know why or how or what." >> right? >> So, much appreciated, Frank. It takes a lot of the load off and thank you to you

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as well. Uh all right, let's roll. I think we've got board business consent agenda. Now we have comments from the town manager. >> You took his time you took his thunder. >> [laughter] >> Come on. He was like he was like so excited. >> He's talked enough tonight. I think we've had just about enough. >> I'm a horrible person. I'm done. Oh my

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god, he doesn't go away. >> [laughter] >> So I do just want to start tonight by thanking our first responders and dispatchers who responded to a public safety incident at Sattler Park last evening. Some of those public response Sorry, excuse me, some of those first

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responders who were at Sattler Park had that same day yesterday responded to a very similar incident in a nearby town, a neighboring town. So, I just want to send a huge thank you to all of them. And again, just another moment, you know, hopefully they're few and far between,

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but we take a moment like that to appreciate the work that all of our public safety first responders do. So, thank you to all of them. A reminder that the town meeting warrant is now open. Residents can contact the town clerk's office if they are interested in submitting a citizen's petition. The warrant is tentatively

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scheduled to close on September 14th for the October 19th town meeting, which will begin at 7:00 p.m. The most recent episode of Ask the Town Manager is now live on HCAT and YouTube. Many thanks to Mark Frank for joining me. We named the episode Franks and Rec,

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like Parks and Rec, except there were two Franks there, so we named it Franks and Rec. I actually learned a great deal about Mark. He is a former eighth grade math teacher, which I did not know until we were >> [laughter] >> No, no, no, former eighth grade eighth grade

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math teacher, which was fascinating. Next up, we are going to have Council on Aging Director Cynthia Lestevnic. And as an aside, as I already mentioned, I'm going to be joining John Cronin for an episode of Just Thinking in the coming days to provide a recap of the

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capital expenditure fund reporting error that was also covered during tonight's select board meeting. But again, thank you to Mark Frank and Cynthia for volunteering to attend on Ask the Town Manager. A reminder to the community that the

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revamped senior and veteran tax work-off program is now live. And I'm very excited to announce tonight that we have six folks placed. Many thanks to Cheryl and her efforts. Please reach out to HR if you're interested in participating and earning up to $1,500 off your

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property tax bill. Other ways to serve the town while not earning property tax bill credit are also available. An updated list of boarding community vacancies is now available online. It is also available in print in the August edition of the Holliston local town pages. So, please

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submit your letter of interest if you're interested in serving. And to wrap up tonight, Ben already talked a little bit about this, but I just want to note that the School Building Committee met for the first time last week, electing Barbara Ryan as its chair. Following the meeting, Dr. Carter, excuse me, Dr. Carter, Barbara,

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and I issued a statement noting the work ahead and the collaboration with the community that also lies ahead. The committee will meet next on August 12th ahead of our next deliverables owed to the MSBA due August 31st. As part of that statement, we also put out an email

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address that you can contact the SBC, excuse me, the School Building Committee um via. Um right now those emails go to myself and Barbara Ryan, um but we are working on getting everyone set up with their own email addresses so that we can ensure that there is uh a steady flow of communication if if desired between the

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community and members of the School Building Committee. >> Where is that joint statement living? Is it on the website? >> It is right on the town the right on the front page of the town's website, and then there's also a School Building Committee website as well. I believe Dr. Carter uh sent a version of it uh to educators and families as well.

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And that is the town manager's update for July 27th, 2026. Thank you for listening. >> And uh Frank, thank you for I know that you're just one hands among many there, but I think the statement was useful. I think there's a lot of hunger for people learning a lot more about that topic. So, please do keep us apprised.

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Absolutely keep communicating with folks. There's folks who want to know what's going on and we encounter them all over the place. >> Yeah, and Barbara Chris Mayo and I met um earlier today to go over through a bunch of [clears throat] uh different, you know, potential communications avenues and strategies that uh the full community I'm sure will be

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discussing in the coming weeks and months and years, hopefully. Um so, stay tuned on that. >> I'm delighted to hear >> And I'm I'm I'm hopeful um and that the we inundate the town >> with more information than they need so that there's no there's no gray [clears throat] areas.

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People understand exactly what's going on and what is uh when things are going to happen. >> Yeah. And I I also want to just send a thanks to Dr. Carter and uh Howie who are jumping right in so many different ways and have already, you know, become

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very engaged on this topic. >> People don't know. You just tell us who who tell people who Howie is. >> Oh, sorry. Howie Barber is the new assistant superintendent for finance and operations. He just started maybe 10 to 15 days ago. Um

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and um you know, he has a lot to to bite off and chew on just getting into that role, but also as an aside being part of the uh school building committee as a non-voting member and also some of the upcoming uh deliverables uh for August 31st and in November fall squarely in

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his court. Um so, um thanks to Dr. Carter and uh and Howie and Principal List um for their assistance. David List and I were joking that even though I'm not in high school anymore, I still whatever I see him, I sort of like tense up and call him Principal List. So, I'm

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not sure if that's healthy or not, but that's a [laughter] different topic. >> It's called trauma. >> I think you're coping with it. >> He was like, "You don't need to call me that. >> [laughter] >> Just call me David." >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. So. >> Excellent. Thank you for the update. >> No problem.

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>> Much appreciate it. Now, the thing I was trying to jump over you with, uh board business. Consent agenda. >> Everybody comfortable with me doing a motion for the consent agenda? >> I have read it. Have you had a chance to read? >> I'll second. >> All right, I will make a motion to approve this evening's consent agenda as

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presented. >> I'll second that. >> All right, votes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> All right, consent agenda passed. Excellent. And we are on to other business. Other business. >> I have no other business. >> No other business? >> None for me.

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>> Other business? Um, I will just join Frank in thanking our first responders and our dispatchers as well, who I think if I if I understand correctly, the dispatchers played a very key role in helping save a life and that is much appreciated. So, thank you for that. And

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that is my only other business. So, with that >> We will do a Would you like a motion We are going to go to executive session and we're not going to come back from executive session. >> Yes, I would ask that the clerk make a motion to consider or excuse me, to call for an executive

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session Oh, I was I was thinking maybe you could just say so moved, but I was listening to you. Oh, okay, sorry. I thought you were writing it down like I was asked that you make a motion to enter into executive session not to return to open session for the purposes of considering the purchase,

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exchange, lease or value of real property if the chair so declares that an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the negotiating position of this public body. >> I will make that motion. >> I'll second it. >> On favor? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Which is that need to be roll call vote?

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>> It does not. >> All right, we're all here. >> Fantastic. So, Holliston >> Recording stopped. >> We're done. >> [laughter] >> And there it is. >> [laughter] >> Tom's like, I'm out. >> All right, mics down.