All right, mics are on. >> Anybody's mic on? >> Hello. Doesn't sound like >> better. Yeah, now it's working. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> I call the zoning board meeting December 3rd to order.
>> Go ahead, Lori. I hereby announce pursuant to section five of the P open public meetings act that adequate notice of this meeting has been transmitted on January 16, 2025 by the board administrative officer to the Aspbury Park Press, the Two River Times,
the Township Clerk, and has been posted in the meeting room and the entrance hall in town hall or all pursuant to section 13 of the Burkel >> present. >> Miss Campus Miss Campus is absent. Miss Gerard >> present. >> Mr. Luchiani >> here.
>> Uh Mr. Marzoka >> here. >> Uh Mr. Gian Paulo. Mr. J Paulo is absent. Mr. Orphanita Pulos >> here. >> Uh Miss Castello >> here. >> Uh Mr. Friola is absent. Thank you.
>> Okay. Stand for the pledge of allegiance and remain standing for a moment of silent for our military and first responders. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Uh we got a couple minutes to approve. I guess we'll do them one by one to tell us who's eligible. >> Uh did any everybody get a chance to review the minutes in general? So if
they have any comments on any particular ones, we could talk about them now. Or if you don't have any, then we'll go pretty quickly through them. >> Yes, I read through them. >> Silence means everybody's okay. >> I just just to put on the record, Miss
Campus contacted me and she was absent on that meeting. So therefore, um fixed it. >> That was fixed. Yes. >> Okay. So, go down one by one. So, 917. Who's eligible to vote on that? >> Uh, Mr. Burkel, Miss Gerard, uh, Mr.
Gian Paulo is not here. Mr. Orphan Deulos, Mr. Luchiani, and Mr. Marzoka. >> You know what we're going to do? Just the way you did it. We're going to roll call it and then we'll just vote whoever's eligible. So, just read the list who's eligible and we'll vote right on that spot. She >> just did. Well, we got to She didn't
need to give us a chance to say yes or no. Oh >> yeah, but I always tell you who is eligible anyway. So >> time. >> Okay. So go down the list again. >> Uh Mr. Burkel. >> Yes, I approve. >> Uh Miss Gerard, >> yes, I approve.
>> Uh Mr. Orphanos, >> yes. >> Mr. Luchiani, >> yes. >> Mr. Marzoka, >> yes. >> Accept who motion and second it. >> Okay, >> we need motion and second. >> I know. >> I'll motion to approve the minutes of n September 17, 2025. >> I'll second it.
Okay. So, thank you. >> I'll do it this way. Uh, the next one is 10:15 2025. Who wants to make a motion to approve? >> Okay. Wait. >> I'll motion to approve. 10:15 2025 minutes. >> Second. >> I'll second it. >> Okay. Roll call.
>> Eligible to vote. Mr. Burkel. >> Yes. To approve. >> M. Miss Ghard. >> Yes. >> Mr. Orandid Polos. >> Yes. >> Mr. Luchiani. >> Yes. >> And Mr. Mazoka? >> Yes. >> Thank you. Minutes of 10:18. Can I have
a somebody to make a motion to approve? >> I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of October 18th. >> I'll second that motion. >> Okay. >> Eligible to vote. Mr. Burkel. >> Yes. To approve. >> Uh Mr. Oranito Bulos. >> Yes. >> Miss Ghart.
>> Yes. To approve. >> Uh Mr. Merzoka. >> Yes. >> Uh Mr. Luchian. >> Yes. >> And Miss Castello? >> Yes. >> Minutes of 115. Can I have a approval? >> I was not at this one. >> Okay. Who else?
>> We can still motion. >> I motion. >> I'll motion on motion. I motion approve the minutes of November 5th, 2025. >> Second. >> Jean. >> Second. >> Okay. Thank you, Jean. >> Thank you. >> Roll call. >> May eligible to vote. Mr. Burkel. >> Yes. To approve.
>> Mr. Oranito. >> Yes. >> Mr. Luchian. >> Yes. >> And Mr. Murzoka? >> Yes. For the record, November 5th, 2025th, October 18th, 2025th, October 15th, 2025th, and September 17th, 2025th,
zoning board minutes were successfully approved. Thank you. >> Okay, before we go any further, >> I should have uh seated Angela for John. >> That's correct. >> So, Angela, you're taking John's spot.
>> Okay. resolution, Marty. >> Y So, this was sent to our professionals and approved with some couple minor changes. Um, you remember they had this is the dry well for the the range page in the backyard. So, they agreed to as a
special condition, installed the dry well to connect the patio runoff to the dry well. Um, they're going to put a grate on the dry well for any lawn runoff. Uh and they will also verify the calculations. They know they can't
exceed the 35.2 coverage because it'll affect the sizing of the drywall and as built for the final installation. >> Okay, that was the only special conditions. >> Yeah. >> Anybody have any other comments on the resolution?
>> Can I have a motion to approve? >> Motion to approve. >> Jean, second. >> I'll second it. >> Okay. Roll call. eligible to vote. Mr. Burkel, >> yes. To approve. >> Uh, Mr. Orphan Pulos, >> yes. >> Mr. Luchiani,
>> yes. >> And Mr. Mzoka, >> yes. >> For the record, resolution number 2025-10 um of the zoning board of adjustment of Township of Home Mammoth County, New Jersey lot coverage variance Jesse Lachland was was successfully approved.
Thank you. >> Item number one. Item number one on for public hearing is ZB2025-02, Tranquil Inspirations, Inc., 24 Shank Road, Homedale. They want to convert a residential
dwelling into a private outdoor learning center and daycare. The applicant also proposes constructing an additional parking area and driveway. Applicant asked for an adjournment. The application will not be heard at today's meeting. >> So, Marty, does this mean that
withdrawing their application. >> No, no, but they will renotice because we're we're not >> renotice. >> We're not going to carry it to a specific date. So, they'll have to renotice. >> So, they're going to renotice. But >> yes, applicant is and the attorney are there aware there will be re noticing. >> Keep all the pay. How long can we keep
pulling this along? >> Discretionary. >> Okay. All right. Uh we have to take any other action on that? No. Right. We have to vote. We don't have to vote on it. >> Okay. Item number two. Item number two in today's agenda is ZB 2025
Michael Jenkins for Birkshshire Court. >> It says basketball hoop installed 98 ft from curb plus 2.5 ft from property lines approximately 10 ft behind the rear fence of the residence including
12,000 comma 600 lumen external flood lights. >> That's it. >> That's it. Okay, before we get started, we have a couple things we want to talk about. First of all, um our my co-chairman Jason has a statement he wants to read.
>> Thank you, Demetri. Uh due to the unusual circumstances involving the applicant's unsolicited visit to my family residence and what could be perceived as an attempt to influence my vote, I feel that I am unable to render a fair and impartial determination which is otherwise required of every board
member in every application. As such, after much reflection, I am recusing myself from the continuing to sit on this application. For the record, I wish to remind the public and all future applicants that any attempt to present evidence or engage in discussion regarding a pending
matter outside of an official hearing, particularly through uninvited contact at a board member's home, is not only wholly inappropriate, but undermines the integrity of this process. So, I'll add that we did comm I communicated with Mr. Jenkins in an
email and just this evening to remind him. I think he's now aware of that. Uh uh just for the record though, we have to make sure nobody else had any communications outside of the hearing. Uh so if anyone did, they need to recuse themselves as well. So,
>> including at the on-site >> any time outside this hearing. So on the onsite when we went to visit, if anybody had any excessive communication that had to do with the application other than asking where things were, you need to tell us.
So if nobody did, I just want to make sure. >> All right. So I'm going to leave the meeting. >> You have to leave the room. >> Yeah, I'm leaving. >> He's leaving going home. >> Okay. For the record, 7 7:13 p.m. uh December 3rd, Mr. Burkel um step down of
for the application. Thank you. So we we still can proceed as five members. You need a majority vote. It's just a bulk variance. So you need three positive votes. >> Um so unless you want a full board, we're ready to go. >> Just making sure you're ready to proceed, Mr. Jenkins.
>> Um before he gets started though, I would like to first have everybody put on the record their observations from the onsite visit. Right. >> So uh we all had an opportunity. I don't remember what the date was. Does anybody remember the date? >> Uh it was 20th. So on October 20th, uh
the applicant >> October 20th. >> October 20th. >> Yeah. >> On October 20th, the applicant offered to show all the board members in an evening time frame what the lights would look like in the neighborhood. Uh the
way and he he did face them downwards. So they weren't facing outwards. So they were facing downwards. So, our board broke up into a couple groups and we went down to his home and we took a look at it. So, uh, with that being said, I I want each board member to tell us his
observations, anything that we want to put on the record. >> You want to go first, Jean? >> Sure. U, >> please make sure your mic is on. >> Yeah. And talking to the mic, is it red? >> No, >> it's on the bottom.
>> Or hold the button the whole time. Yeah, got it up. >> Okay. Keep it within a couple inches of your mouth. >> Okay. Uh well, basically I thought the lights were extremely bright. Uh
it looked like uh the resident had a playground basically uh in his front yard. So uh I that was my observation. Uh,
I I thought that having a turf field go all the way to the front uh automatically should have made it a sports complex, but that's my opinion. >> Okay. Thank you, Vinnie. >> Yeah, sort of the same sentiment. It was
pretty bright uh walking over to the neighbor's house and >> it seems that >> I don't think the mic is on. >> Yeah. Is it a red light on? You can put your finger on the button and hold it down and talk.
>> Okay, there we go. So, originally the permit was um or or the um it was approved. Correct. >> It wasn't deemed a sports >> building department, >> right? Was approved >> and once once
>> every everything aside from the lights in the basketball court. >> We're not open yet for public. >> I thought he asked. Sorry, >> he's not asking questions. >> Okay. So, I mean, I guess I would say that, you know, since it was approved the way it was and you added the basketball court, then it raised an
issue and now the lights are an issue, the basketball court's an issue, and now the the turf backyard is an issue. Um, because you testified that it was intended for a baseball. >> Keep to your observations of the night.
>> Right. Well, my observations are that um it was pretty bright um regardless of the reading that we had seen. Um and I would think that it would be a problem for some of the neighbors. Um
that was my observation from the site visit. >> Thank you, Vinnie. Angela, were you there? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Um so I agree with the fellow board members on the observation of the brightness. Um, also to add in where the basketball court was. I think at the last meeting there was discussion that
where it would be thrown, it could possibly go over the neighbor's fence. And I definitely observe that that is a very possib high possibility if the ball was overthrown is probably going into the neighbor's yard. >> Okay. Thank you. Skip me. I'll be last. Go ahead, Lori. >> Okay. I think I was one of the first
people to come. Vinnie might have been right before me. And what I observed, frankly, was the street was dark. I didn't know which house was number four because I couldn't read the mailbox numbers. And then I I'm going to assume the applicant must have seen us because
then he put on the lights and it was a dramatic difference. The entire street lit up and then it was very obvious which house was his. But I will tell you the difference was extreme because I couldn't even read the mailbox numbers. I was literally with my cell phone
flashlight before the lights were put on. Thank you, Angela. Lori, um I I have to uh agree with everybody. I'm going to add a little bit of my two cents, too, before I get down to the
details. Um I treat every application as if it was my neighbors and how it's going to affect the neighborhood. how if I lived on that block, how I would feel about it and when I live in a certain area, what do I expect to see
for the rest of my life living there? And is anything going to change the quality of my life? So, those are the things that I personally have brought to the table since I've been on these boards for 25 years. And I' and I think I've done that for every single
application, whether it's commercial or residential. So I too was at the site and I stood in many spots throughout the culdesac and wherever I was the lights were something that I wouldn't want to have on my
block. They would they were way too bright. Um the answer to that, well we will get to that later. Uh, as far as the court itself, being that it's a culdeac, it's not the
end of the world that he's up close to the curb. You know, I might be willing to oversee that. He did put trees and fences there to keep it out. Uh, people eventually will hide that from the street, but it is it is looks like a
playground, not looks like a residential house over there. That's my feeling. So, I kind of agree too with Angela with the basketball. I can see if I was that neighbor, even though the house was way up high and I don't even know if they would ever know if a basketball got went over the fence and the kids climbed
over, but it something that should be if that neighbor happens to be here, maybe they'll talk about it whether they mind or don't mind. But again, all of you neighbors that are here are here. You're living there today. I don't look at what you are here today. you can you will be
able to make a statement and say whatever you like later but I always think of it what's the good for the future because whatever we approve or disapprove here doesn't just affect you guys today it affects the future of that neighborhood. So we can't we have to
look at how this is going to affect that neighborhood and the quality of life in that neighborhood and and that's really important. And that's really what it comes down to when we ask when somebody asks for variance because the township does have certain ordinance and certain codes that we need to follow and where
the judges when somebody comes along and claims a hardship that they want to do something or not follow the law. We have to determine whether they're justified in what they're saying. and and it's sometimes it's difficult and this is one of those type of cases where it is
difficult but we always have to think of the public that's going to live there. The people that are going to see this every day we none of us are going to see it. We don't go down that street. We'll never see it again. But the people that live there are going to see it every
day. So we want to make sure that we do the right thing for the neighbors. Okay, that's all I have to say on that. So, with that being said, I open the hearing up and you may uh discuss where we left off last time. Melissa, why do you have
>> No, I was just going to remind um Mr. Jenkins is still under oath for you were sworn in last time. Our board professionals are still under oath. They were both sworn in last time as well. So, >> um and I'd like to apologize to the board. I feel like we'd already be done here if I was if this wasn't my first
time. I'm I'm I'm doing my best here. Um, I'm hoping it doesn't go long again and I know it's not up to me, but I'd like to ask the board um that the public be afforded the opportunity to go ahead and be heard first so they can be free to go
if they if they have to. If if if it's okay with you just so I know some of these people have to get back home. It it's up to you. >> Well, normally what happens is you do your testimony. When your testimony is done, then we open up to the board members. They ask you questions. Then I
open it up to the public to ask you questions, >> right? >> You know, whether they're for or against you, they're still going to ask questions. And then when that's all done, then we open it up to public hearing for comments, >> right? >> Which they could say whatever they want >> and they have to be sworn. That's
correct. They have to come up front. >> Understood. I'm just I know have to go out of order. Then it follows everything up because then how do we ask a question to you if we don't even know what >> what your testimony is like? So, unfortunately, they have to stay here until we go through the whole process.
>> No worries. Yep. I I thought I'd ask. Um, so I'd like to just start with a couple of housekeeping things that were unanswered from last time. Uh, last time the question was asked, why artificial turf and not grass? I'm not fully sure. And again, not to be
argumentative, I I don't I I look through the ordinances. Um, artificial the term artificial turf of any kind isn't mentioned anywhere. and and between grass and turf. After after further digging, I couldn't find any differentiation at all between the two surfaces. Both grass and turf are green.
Grass is fully porous and environmentally friendly, and so is the turf that I put down. That said, I did want to go and at least answer the question since somehow last time we got pulled off topic during the explanation before I could fully answer. So to quickly revisit the reasoning behind the
decision, in addition to the convenience that I already shared, not having to mow it and immediately being able to play with my kids, that area before the work was done was always very swampy for a few days after a heavy rain. When you came to look, you probably noticed the
drainage from six Birkshshire Court outside the fence line and that the area would hold water after it rained. So the area before the work was done was pretty much unusable to the kids until it dried up again. So it was important to get some better
drainage put in under the surface. So we made sure to do that while the work was done. Now it doesn't matter now it doesn't matter how long or hard it rains. The area drains re really well. Um again it's fully porous. It's fully environmentally conscious in that
regard. The most but but the most important reason for the turf is because two of my kids are very allergic to grass. So, since we were doing all this work for them, we thought it'd be nice if we didn't have to hit them with Zerek each time they went outside to play. Um,
I just wanted to pass you guys a couple of pictures. >> Okay, we have to put into evidence. >> These are these are what are they? Describe these are the pictures took the pictures when
>> the pictures are a year or two old in in that time frame. there. My son Jack's back at the allergist and also my daughter Violet's back. The worst parts that you see are
grass um allergens. So, that was a thought process and the reasons that we I conveyed to Lonnie and Steve when the surface itself is turf and not grass. So, I'm hoping that makes better sense. Now,
what we built is a play area. It was designed to be versatile and as big as we could get permitted and as big as we could afford. It took us a long time to save up to be able to put the area on our property for our kids. Someone asked last time if the reason we put the area
in was for me. And I just wanted to say that no one would flatten an area like that on their property if it wasn't for their kids. That's not to say I won't ever shoot a basketball at that hoop or have a friend over to roll some botchi balls around, but if I didn't have kids,
I'd be fine with skipping it at this point in my life. So, I just wanted to touch on three points quickly. Last time the term precedence came up, sports related stuff was referenced as the culprit, aside from the basketball
hoop, none of which are permanent structures. And as As I committed to you last time, no other distur disturbances will occur. You can you can go to most backyards where kids live and find similar stuff.
It may be maybe it's not exactly the same stuff we have, but there's definitely some stuff that's related to sports. And again, sports are games that people play. The area is not a tennis court and it's not a basketball court. I searched the ordinances for a definition
of sports court and there isn't one. I searched the internet for a definition of sports courts and in every definition I could find a sports sports courts are made of concrete or asphalt and in some cases acrylic coat is added to it but
underlying it's every single time made of asphalt or concrete by definition. The point here is that by definition, sports courts are impervious. The definition goes further to say that sports courts are not to be confused
with fields of play that are not designed for a specific purpose and are instead versatile and can be used for different types of play. I feel like that's a lot closer to what we built at our home. I want to point out that we did take into consideration land use and
it's important not to add unnecessary imperous coverage to our property. So from a president's perspective, considering what we built, I think you're covered by not calling it a sports court at all. If after this you
still feel it must be a sports court, then I guess it must be a sports court. But and the appropriate variance would have to be applied for two big reasons. I got all of it approved and I did all the work in line with what was approved. And quite frankly, we can't afford to
undo that work. If the basketball is removed, it's not going to change what the play area is. At this point, I'd like to just switch gears. The variance process started because of an anonymous email complaint.
Specifically, it was triggered after all the permitted work was done when the complaint came about the lights. Again, it's important to note that the complaint came at a point when the lights have never been on after dark. And as I shared last time, I didn't even
get a chance to try to work out an acceptable configuration for them before the construction officers knocked on my door. And here we are. I didn't even when we pointed them down, I didn't even have enough time to build what I've built. Um, I'm going to get to it, but there was a letter I'm hoping that all
you guys have seen already to to refresh you. Everything aside from the hoop and the lights were approved by permit and passed inspection. And again, the fence was passed multiple times. Everyone, and you'll hear it later,
everyone thinks the play area is great and no one cares about that hoop's location. Not the neighbor that may actually be affected, not the public, no one. I'm I'm sure that after seeing the property, it paints a better picture of what we're talking about here.
We're really only here because someone complained about lights that have never been on after dark. In an attempt to avoid being here all night again, I just want to make sure everybody on the board has seen this letter. I sent
this about a month ago. Did you guys see this? You have to introduce it. >> Okay. >> You can't. >> Okay. >> The board can't accept anything unless you present it and read it tonight. >> It's this one. >> Okay. >> It's in our packet. >> It's okay. But you >> It's part of the package. >> Present it. Do I need to reread it? >> No, we could call it an exhibit if
>> Do I need to reread it? Everybody's read it. >> It's in your pack. >> It's in your package. Yeah. Okay. >> I'm just trying to accelerate this. Like if you've seen it, >> summarize what it is. >> Okay. Long and short of it is when you guys >> for the record, those pictures we're going to mark as A5. >> What is this? the prior pictures that
we'll do A5 we'll >> label this as exhibit A6 that entire packet that you >> right >> when you before you start engineer and planners he's making a lot of things statement that I'm going to ask you to talk about later so make sure you're taking notes on everything you're saying in that text go ahead
>> so so again I didn't touch those lights since the inspector came up and said you need to get a variance effectively Right. The I had it just a couple of days since the last meeting before you guys came to
look at the lights and I couldn't I didn't have time to build a shield yet. When I saw it, the lights technically were in compliance with the ordinance, but at the same time I didn't like because a lot of the energy from the
lights when they're pointed straight down is hitting the house almost immediately and making it glow. Not only that, the top row of the lights shined it directly down below onto the back of the lights on the lower rows and that
glowed as well a lot. So, I asked Frank and Ellie at uh six Birkshshire Court right across the street, "Hey, the lights are going to be on. Let me know what you think afterwards." And over the next, I'd say week or two,
I worked diligently to build a shield and and you'll hear from from Ellie and Frank later tonight. And that's been displayed. So, long and short of it is the first is what you guys saw that night. And I agree, it lit up way too
much and I didn't like it either, right? I I wouldn't be comfortable putting these lights on. But again, I I did not have time to configure them or even try to put a shield up before I was put put in the penalty box. So when I had time
before this hearing, I put a shield around these lights that are in full compliance with with the ordinance still and I feel is very
reasonable for any neighbors. Um, and I I took a couple of pictures during the daylight so you could see what it what the shield looks like during the daylight. Um, I know it's hearsay, but I did go up and and show Dennis up in in the in the office and he he liked it. Um, and he he
he basically commented like, "Wow, that's pretty good." Um, I know it's yours say, but um, and then this is the you asked last time, Craig, for a light intensity map. I added that, too. >> Um, so that's what this is. And we can
>> we have >> we have it. >> I have a copy. >> We have copy. Thanks. >> Yep. No worries. Okay. So, >> how much more you have? >> Uh, it's a lot faster than last time. Almost done. Almost done. >> I just was thinking to take a little break from you from what you've said to
let my professionals comment on the portions up tonight. >> Just one more quick thought on it. >> That's fine. >> Um, can I can I at least get through the light piece and then >> keep going. Keep going. just as long as they were going to remember. >> Um,
okay. Uh, before getting this. So, I have to say, Craig, last time I thought it was going to be impossible to achieve like the 0.1 at the at the property lines and and at the street. I I genuinely I was like I was
going to street lights and measuring that light intensity under a street light. My argument was going to be, hey, if I'm putting less light into the property or into the street as a street light is, that should be fine. That was my that was the initial plan that I was
going to try to make an argument for. But I was fair I was actually pretty surprised at how quickly the light intensity does fall off. And especially with the shield, we were able to achieve 0.0 zero foot candles as you as you move anywhere near any property lines as as
as you if you look at the light intensity map. So, you should be able to see that and and on the street as well. Um, and with the shields, I I I feel like I feel like it should be fine. That said, I'm willing to have you come out and certify whatever. And if we have to
tweak the shield to make sure that everybody's perfectly happy if I miss something or whatever, I'm I'm happy to comply with that. um fully compliant. Okay. So, I I just I just wanted to share to going point by
point through the ordinance. So, um for section A, no light surface shines or reflects into any windows or onto the street or driveway. The nature of the lighting is not rotating, pulsating, or otherwise intermittent. So, it's a check for uh subsection A. for subsection B.
That section actually says don't worry about this section if you're doing in subsection C, which we are, but at the same time, it's still compliant. So, the lights are shielded to prevent light trespass onto nearby properties and and street. So, there's a check here even
though we don't need that one. Subsection C, we already went through. Um, it's fully compliant. So, 15 feet off the off the ground. The light source isn't visible from the streets or the adjacent properties. The surface is illuminated at 20 foot can less than 20
foot candles in intensity. I I shared with you guys I shared with you guys what the light intensity meter looks right underneath the lights. Um and it was it was less than 20 uh foot candles. Um so for subsection D1 plans have been
submitted to the construction office and pending the outcome here a contractor will come and put the wires in the gray pipes and install auto shut off safe safeguards etc. So the construction officer so the construction officer is
happy. Um for D2 and three they're not applicable. The lights are less than 20 feet and they're not security related. For four, the light intensity is less than 0.1 at the property lines and at the street. For D5, it's not applicable since it's not illuminating an ATM
machine. D7 is not applicable. D6 is not applicable. It's not going to there's no need for them to be on after 11. And then D7, after the contractor work is completed, the lights will be in compliance with the most current version of the illuminating engineering lighting society and north of of North America
lighting handbook and any other applicable publications. So, for these reasons, with the understanding that the lights will never be on until it's permitted and the contractor work is completed and I'm happy to comply in case there does
still need to be a tweak to the to the shields. So, again, I didn't like it when it was bright when you guys saw it. It is not that way anymore with the shields on it. In fact, I I wrote it down someplace else here, but I know you want to get to the questions. I I calculated more than 65% of the
light because I I put this light absorbing um paint on all the interior surfaces of the shield, 65% of the light is trapped and absorbed by that light already. Um so with the understanding that until there's a
permit, the contractor works completed and and Craig's group is happy with it, they'll they'll never be on. So I'm I'm hoping that since they're in compliance fully with the ordinance, we can remove it from the variance discussion alto together. If we can't,
then that's fine. So that's the lighting part. >> You got more to go, right? >> A little bit more. A little bit. Okay. So not too much more. I want to give the opportunity for questions from the professionals because you made a lot of statements about a sports court in the
beginning and whether it's legal or it's not qualified as sports court. So um can we address that planner first? >> Sure. >> What makes it a sports court? Why, etc. >> Can you hear me?
>> The the red has to be on the red light. >> Oh, it's on. It's on with the red. Okay. Um, so in terms of the the court definition, we're going off of the section of the ordinance that deals with it specifically says um section 30-105
swimming pools, tennis courts, and paddle tennis courts and it talks about pools or courts. Um, and it was interpreted that this is relating to uh sports courts. it just more specifically talks about tennis courts or or swimming
pools um because those are most common on residential properties to be built um but for all intents and purposes we considered this to be a sports court and for those uh regulations to be applicable. >> So what makes it a sports court versus
just the backyard with a turf on it? So, uh, I I was looking in your ordinance, um, to see if there are any definitions, and he did mention that he didn't find definitions for a sports court. I can't find a definition for a sports court either. There is the definition of an
active recreation use, which means a ball field, running track, or other similar facility utilized for active outdoor recreation. That's in your ordinance um, definitions. So, >> so that's the closest that I found. >> So, when the board when the inspectors
passed it, because you mentioned that they passed it, what were they actually okaying in passing? >> Um, my understanding is they were okaying the uh coverage, which they may have considered it to be pvious coverage. He mentioned that it's porous.
Um, any other uh improvements like the fencing? I don't think that they defined the use of the court as far as I I can tell originally in the original uh permit. >> So what turned it into a sports court? >> I I think that once the basketball hoop
was installed um it became apparent that that was the intended use and then obviously with the testimony last time there was discussion of other sports that were um hoping to be played on the on the court. >> Okay. All right. Uh, Greg, do you have
anything to add to what she said? >> Not about the definition of sports court, Tom. Anything to add? >> Okay. Do you have something you want to talk about the lighting that he testified about? >> Uh, sure. So, um, applicant testified that, you know, you can it's it's evident in pictures that there were uh
she shields being built and um that has reduced the light as it pushes away from the house. Um the applicant as the indicator has provided a light intensity map. I do have a question for the applicant. How did you
um come up with these light intensity figures? Do you have a meter or something? Do you >> Yeah, I bought a I bought a meter. >> Okay. >> Yep. I have I have pictures of where I put I put little electric uh electrical tape dots at 10 foot intervals all around. I have pictures of that, too,
where you could see where the light intensity readings were taken as well. If it's helpful, I could If not, we can skip it. >> Okay. So, uh, light intensity map was repaired based off of, uh, a light meter that the applicant, uh, used and, um, as
the applicant talked through, uh, in my letter, I had summarized the fact that, um, you know, based on the ordinance, it was, uh, sorry, uh, 20 foot candles within the court
and, um, basically zero at the property line, which this uh intensity map you provided illustrates that the highest is 9.2 right by where the lights are and then zeros as you approach the property line. >> Okay, Craig. So, um I know the applicant
uh told us that he was some sort of an engineer. I don't remember what type, but do you need to in order as a professional engineer and you're going to take the the testimony and the facts that he gave you, what do you need to certify that he is doing it the right way, is using the right equipment and
everything is up to the standards as if your company had done it. >> So, normally we would have a a lighting professional and an engineer sign off on it. We do have the ability to do light level readings. We have a lighting expert on staff and we've done plans where we've gone out and measured lights. So if if that's something a
board wants, we can verify the numbers that the applicants provided. >> I could I could share with you how I made the readings because there's a special there's a specific way to do it. You can't just you can't just hold the meter. You have to take the meter, place
it on the surface that it's measuring exactly at the spot. That's how it was measured. I'll leave it to you guys if you want to double check me. I'm happy to have you guys come out. If not, >> just I not to cut you off. >> I'm a I'm a mechanical engineer by >> I think our engineer is just saying he
could verify it. >> Yeah, if if you'd like. I think he's leaving it to your discretion. >> Technically, otherwise he would need to rely on it today. He'd need a certified light expert with an engineer seal on it. Even if you're an engineer background, but he could be verified by Craig.
>> Correct. And it' probably be, you know, um, cheaper for us to come out and verify your results than prepare a whole, you know, hire an engineer and prepare a lighting plant. So that's why. >> No worries. >> Because I'm not sure what kind of engineer you are. >> Mechanical. >> So lighting is a specialty. And usually
when we have these type of applications, we have a letter from a certified lighting engineer that that's all they do. >> Understood. I'm I'm happy to comply with whatever we need to. And again, the lights are the lights are dimmable if we need to, whatever. So,
>> okay, go ahead. >> You're all set. >> I I wanted to add because I was just looking at the lighting standards again. And actually, this is the section of the ordinance. Um, where sports court, the term sports court is used. Um, the
lighting section that we've been reviewing this under is under a header called residential, private, recreation, lighting. It specifically calls out private swimming pools, sports courts, or other recreational purpose on a single family residential property. So,
I think that's another place where this term sports court is being used in the ordinance. Um, and it's under the umbrella of private recreation uses. >> Is it is it fair to call it other recreational area? Because it says that right after sports court. Is that fair?
I think sports court or other recreational purpose could be applicable depending on how it's being used. >> So it doesn't have to be a sports court. >> Uh not necessarily. Um yeah, but what are we >> It is definitely being used for private recreational purposes.
>> That's right. >> Right. But we're here because it was defined as a sports court which has different regulations to make it simple than a regular backyard court. So we want to be sure then otherwise then he wouldn't have been here for variance.
>> Well, excuse me. Um the so for the lighting standards uh if he's not compliant then he would still need to come here for a variance for the setbacks. That's where the the sports court or court you know definition comes
into play. And I think we had discussed last time that the zoning board can make interpretations as well of the ordinance >> right. Um, and just finally on the lighting, um, there are four lighting requirements and one I don't think that
we've gotten, um, specific confirmation on the height of >> I I shared that in the previous meeting, but it's I I can dig it up. I'll have it for you. >> Okay. because I think I've heard it's less than the requirement which is 15 ft but I'm not sure we've I've I've
recorded what the >> I'll dig up exactly the >> and finally the um there was the requirement that any private recreation lighting uh shall be turned off after 11 p.m. and I'm not sure if that was agreed to.
>> No, we haven't got into anything like that yet. >> Okay. I would just wanted to remind everyone >> thank you. Okay, >> that that's in fact another flexibility that we're willing to concede. They're never going to be on at 11 p.m. Not even close. So in order to plate and
make everybody happy, we're happy to agree to an earlier time for them to come on. >> That's what the ordinance is. So it's not >> I I'm I'm not suggesting >> agree to 10:00 then that would be an agreement, but 11:00 that's required. If if I'd I'd like to have the flexibility
whether I use it or not, but at the same time, if it's going to be the difference between a yes and a no, I'm happy to come off the 11 p. We It's never going to be on at 11. Never. >> Okay. >> Not even close. >> All right. All right. So, um I have a couple of ways we're going to do this
now. So, I wanted you to make comments on some of the things they have. I want them to continue before I open it up to the board to ask questions. Otherwise, we're going to have chaos because then I have to open it up to the public. Yeah. >> So, go ahead, continue with your testimony. >> Appreciate it. Um,
>> okay. So, as far as the basketball hoop is concerned, I did another search of the full collection of ordinances and I tried to find the instance that the term basketball came up and there were three. It came up under 172 and that's regarding the proximity to a joining
township right of way and it comes up there twice. Um, for those that aren't aware of what a township right ofway, it's basically the first 10 feet nearest the curb that the homeowners on the hook to keep looking nice, but at the same time it's really the townships to dig and put utilities in and stuff like
that. So that's the definition of a right of way. It's like an easement, right? Um, so the first time it comes up, it defines basketball equipment, specifically posts, basket, backboards, and rims. The second time it comes up, it says the hoop shall be 10 feet from
the right of way. Um, so effectively in this instance, this means that the basketball hoop should not be closer than 20 ft to the curb to be fully in compliance with this ordinance. Not to mention it there is no mention made
regarding any adjacent property lines at all. So again, the only thing stipulated in the ordinances at all about where a basketball c hoop needs to be is 20 ft off the curb effectively here. It doesn't matter where else on the
property it is. There's there's no there's no uh side measurement. Um so that then the last the last time it comes up is under 30 uh uh 65 and that's regarding fences and walls. And again, it's not a basketball court that we
built, but this piece suggests that the fence can go up to 12 feet and that the fence not be in the front yard. So, regarding the ba regarding the basketball equipment, no mention is made of it having to be portable as a
requirement versus fixed. Um, so on its own, the basketball hoop is 98 feet off the front curb. So it's in full compliance with any reference made anywhere in the ordinances. So with all this, I'm
I I do want to share that we're here because again, somebody somebody complained, right? And I was told that the only way to get this done is through a variance. And I'm not convinced that
it's a sports court. The basketball hoop on its own is compliant. The lights on their own, and again, if I didn't quite get the shield right, I'll get it right. It should be
in compliance, too. Um, with this said, the original paperwork included everything except the hoop and the lights, and that didn't need a variance. And we just saw that the lights and the hoop don't require variance either. So, I'm fine,
again, I'm it's been a lot of money. I'm fine with paying for the variance to this point to make sure we get it right, but I think we need to make sure we get this blessed somehow in an acceptable way. In summary, so you're aware, and I shared this earlier, the shielding I built to ensure full compliance with the
ordinance blocks upwards of 65% of the total light emitted. And and I'm with you guys. When I saw it that night, it was like, that's too much, right? It's not okay. So, I I didn't have a chance to build the shield. I'm hoping that after you look at the letter, wow,
that's much that's much better, right? Um, so again, it's shielded and it's getting absorbed by the lightabsorbing paint and we're fine sacrificing most of the lights to make sure our neighbors are happy. Again, we just want some light
out there so they could play. It doesn't need to be Yankee Stadium. So, even though it's a lot dimmer with the Shield, we're okay with that and we can accept it. But we can't afford to move the lights, for example, to the opposite
side or do too much more aside from minor changes to make sure it's in line with with whatever the spec is. Um, the basketball hoop can't feasibly go anywhere else on the property. Again, if you if you take it and put it in the back, there's a trampoline there. That
doesn't work. If you take it and put it near the house, that's a falling hazard, right? That retaining wall. And again going back to that whole area, it the stipulations were four feet in the front as far as the fence is concerned up to six feet in the back. Retaining walls
need to be less than four feet tall. You can level anything you want. You bring even a bucket full of dirt in. No good. Any dirt, anything you bring in needs to be clean fill. And the surface didn't matter, right? He said grass, turf,
doesn't matter. Um, so I just want to point out the basketball hoop. The last part is it shouldn't go right next to the fence. Even though even if I put it next to the fence in
the front by the street, it's it's still going to be 20 feet off the curb anyway. So, in accordance to the ordinance, it's okay. Um, so it really can't go anywhere else
feasibly on the property either. The driveway slope, the other side of the property has a septic tank. Um, so I I feel and I think you'll hear from the neighbors that it will add value. Um, and then I did want to share that we're
flexible with concessions. We already touched on a couple of them. We're genuinely trying to be flexible with whatever is going to make everybody happy here. Um, so even though it's not a basketball court, the one ordinance that did mention basketball had fencing. And just to put
it into perspective, the only stipulation was that the fence isn't in the front yard, but it said you could go up to 12 feet. So I have another picture here. Um, this is a picture of the basketball hoop and the two se sections on either
side. This A7. >> Um, so for those two segments, if I' I'd love for it to be blessed the way it is, but if we have to, I'm happy to go up to
12 feet on those two segments and then a basketball's never going to go into that yard, right? Um, and I'm I'm happy to come off the 11 p.m. if it's going to make everybody happy here. That's not that's not a requirement that we have or or whatever it is. Again, if it's in
line with the ordinance, I don't see why that would be a thing, but they're really not going to be on that late, right? And and I will find I I will find the specs because I they're they're right under 15 ft. I want to say they're 1410. Um, and then
we I did share last time that we will install safeguards that have automatic shut off so it's never accidentally on after whatever time we determine. Um, so last thing in closing, and I'm going to try not to get
emotional here, but um, my boys, >> please take your time. Mr. Jen, you can hold your closing if you want. Let everybody talk first and then Okay. >> Give yourself a chance and give a closing after you heard. >> Well, I want to say sorry.
I went to I I for for safety related reasons and I'm not comfortable saying it on public record. That's the reason I went to Jason's house. And I know that I'm not doing things the right way. and I'm doing my best. And
>> you you you're you know when >> when you you have a person that's the right person to handle a particular task or or or or thread some thread some sort of a needle and I feel bad
because my kids are counting on me to do this and I feel like I'm failing them cuz I'm the best chance they have to get this done for them. So, I wanted to say I'm sorry. I know I'm annoying a lot of you guys cuz I
feel like I'm reading and I I I don't know any other way to do it where I don't forget anything, but I wanted to share these baseball cards with you. I remember the first time I played
baseball on a team and it was special and I wanted to make it special for them and I didn't want to I didn't want to exclude their little sisters so I made them these baseball cards. So, at any rate, I hope that you could
excuse the fact that I'm illquipped to to get this for them, but I wanted to share these with you so you could see who there who this is all for. And I asked that just because I'm not good at this,
please don't penalize them. Please don't take the basketball hoop and the lights from them. They're good kids and >> I'm genuinely sorry lose it. So sorry about that. >> Okay. >> I think we should
I will uh Are you finished now at this point? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um Craig, you want to start with all I know he went over a lot of different things. So yeah, um >> and you can ask questions obviously of the applicant.
>> Oh, I'm sorry. >> So yeah, I'll leave the the definition of supports um to um the board and a planner. um you know specifically about the um lighting requirements. Uh you
know I had the comments related to the um the lighting levels which uh based off of the light intensity map prepared by the applicant. It looks like it appears that it meets the ordinance requirements. So um I'll leave up the board that wants to be verified by our
office so we can do that and work with the applicant to get that done. Um, as for the uh height, I believe um last time I have in my notes that you had um testify I was 14t 10 in high. So I'll
let you verify that. >> Yeah, let me dig for that now. >> And um if if you agreed uh that lights will be off by 11 p.m. you meet that ordinance requirement. So it appears that they're meeting the ordinance requirement uh could be conditioned on uh our office verifying the light light
intensity levels. Okay. So, let me ask you a question. If I came to your office and I said, "Hey, I want to put a sports court in my backyard and I want to light it up." What would you how would you handle the lighting on that? >> I mean, generally when we look at
lighting a site, we try and have them face it in by um you know, away from the neighbors. Uh but the applicant has testified as to why it was placed where it was. So, um, you know, from our standpoint, that's the way we would do it, but doesn't necessarily mean it has to be that way.
>> Okay. Thank you. Uh, any comments from the planner? >> Yes. Um, >> so I just wanted to comment um maybe a couple of things. First, the um the
accessory uses listed for um listed in the ordinance in in one of the sections. It relates to residential lots uh are permitted accessory uses including um and it and it says tennis courts,
basketball courts, and gazeos. But I think that the uh regulation discussing um the courts and the pools um uh I think that that could also be intended to apply to a basketball court or or a
field. Um that's just an interpretation that ultimately the board has to make. But usually if you're permitting something, there's a regulation associated with it in terms of bulk or setback. And so it would be unusual to have uh something that's permitted not
be regulated in terms of setback. >> So just just to make sure that everybody's on the same page, tell us what the applicant has and what the ordinance requires and where is the deficient as far as what we're variance he's asking for. the variances that he
needs are specifically um if it if the board does consider it to be a sports court that's regulated under uh this section of the ordinance that is >> uh it's stated in our letter. I just
wanted to specify actually I have it on my screen. Um yeah. So in section 30-127.6 um the ordinance does require uh certain
setbacks um for accessory structures. And then there is the requirement at section 30-105 that specifically relates to the swimming pools, tennis courts, and paddle tennis courts. It talks about pools or courts. Um shall meet the
setback requirements for an accessory building. In the other section um for that zone it says if located in the front yard all facilities shall be set back twice the distance from the street than is required for the principal building. And here the requirement is 50
feet for the principal building. So if you double that it should be set back 100 feet. Um >> and what does the applicant have? I believe it's was it 20 feet that was tested? >> 22 >> 22 feet. >> Okay. So, he's over
>> Yes. >> quite a bit. >> And then there's the sidey yard setback requirement as well. Um where we have the requirement being uh 10 feet from the side uh property line I believe
>> five feet half a foot. >> I'm sorry. Let me just specify. So the requirement um is 25 ft actually from the side property line. The fencing of the sports court is 0 feet from the
northeastern uh side property line adjacent to six Berkshire court and then the basketball hoop is 2 and 1/2 ft from the property line. So, um, to me, when I think about the setbacks, which we haven't discussed quite as much as the
lighting, I think about why would there be a restriction for any type of court or swimming pool to be set back so far from the street uh, and not be placed in the front yard. And I think about if you were to have these types of courts in a
park, you would likely want uh see them with tall chainlink fencing surrounding them to capture fly balls or for security purposes so people wouldn't wander into a pool if it's a pool. Um but when you have a residential street,
if you were to install a 10-ft uh chain link fence, it would no longer be in character with the neighborhood. So, one solution is to um I think the intent of the ordinance is to permit these types of um uses, accessory uses, but further
from the street so that it does not impact on the residential character or experience of the street being residential in nature with a typical uh front yard. That's I think part of why it should be set back and so that you don't get fly balls or need chain link fencing like you would see in a park
surrounding these types of facilities. So, that's my comment on the setback that I don't think we've uh gotten into too much in terms of the lighting. Um uh you know, I we have to go off of the evidence that has been presented here
tonight, but overall the board has to consider if the benefits of granting the variances outweigh substantially outweigh the detriments. So, ultimately, I think that's the consideration. >> Okay. Thank you.
That's it from you guys. You can still if you want to add. Okay. Board members, you have to ask any questions of the applicant on his testimony or anything we've heard last time this time. Go ahead, Jean. You can go first. >> Well, I guess uh I guess he's already
stated that building office all the way up to where he's got it now. So that would be my only question for a sports complex that right away.
Well, as the planner said, that's something that we have to decide. Do we think this is a sports court as as the planner defined it? And if we do think of it, then we have to treat it that way as far as the variances. And obviously that's what the zoning board officer
felt it was. So that's what we have to determine and we can outweigh the the zoning board officer. That's what we're here for and call it not a sports court if we thought it wasn't. But uh I think from even the applicant mentioned it was a sports court. So I think most of us
agree that it's a sports court. So the question will be, do we want to have a sports court like that on his property the way it is that he already built? And that's the question that we all have to think about ourselves. But if we have
if there's some questions you want to ask the applicant that you have that may make you make one decision or another, this is the opportunity we all have. So uh you want to you want to go to Vinnie then? Was
your intention >> if you could make sure the mic is on init? >> Is the red light on? >> Initially, was your intention to always install a basketball court? Was that part of your vision at the onset? >> It it I think it I think it evolved. I
mean, it was one of those it it wasn't initially. We we put it in and I didn't even think that you'd be able to bounce a basketball on it and then we when we saw that you could it's like well we can stick a basketball hoop right here.
So when we put it in No. But again, I'm I'm hoping that you know, you you've seen dogs that get like the little lion's costume on them, right? Like when they put that lion's mane on,
that doesn't make the dog a lion, right? And conversely, if you shave the mane off of a lion, it doesn't make it any less of a lion, right? Nobody levels that kind of piece of their property for any other reason than
for their kids to play on it. I hope that's super clear. I mean, I I shared with Steve and Lonnie, my kids are allergic. They're going to play on this thing, right? And it's designed to be versatile. It's not there to play tennis
on. It's not there to play basketball on. It's there to do whatever you want to do on it. We're not gonna hit base real baseballs into the It's not a baseball field. We're not going to hit real baseballs into the street there,
right? It's >> designed to be a flexible place for the kids to chase their dreams. And again, if the basketball hoop's there or not, it's not any different. that whole thing. If the basketball hoop and the
lights aren't there, that thing's still there. That was a that was approved, blessed, inspected. That's the best answer I have for you. I I I want to share one other thing, and I'm going to try not to lose it, but
it's close to me, too. Um, I grew up and there was me and another kid that played baseball until, right? We were all about it. I could have a catch for six hours a day, right? I mean, that that was my thing growing up.
My and I'm not bisping my parents. They did the best by me. They knew how, but they had a certain mentality and it was different than this other guy's mentality was. His name was Jimmy Gells. He made it to the AAA Buffalo Bison.
He's a he's a coach for Hofster baseball right now. And his dad was a fireman growing up. and his dad had what I feel like is the the best attitude to have as a parent
could have. And it was basically like if I could provide you anything that I can within my means so you can chase your dreams, I will. And so
Jimmy's dad was able to get and I know he's not a rich person, but he was able to do everything he could for his kids. And that's what I vowed that I would do for mine. And so that's where this all started from that that it wasn't sneaky. I mean, nobody nobody
leveled. >> With all due respects, I appreciate all your comments, but it's really >> apologize. >> Not relevant to what we're trying to do here. We're trying to make this work for you, but we have to make it work the right way. So, let the board keep asking questions and >> apologize.
>> Vinnie, you have anything else? He answered your question. >> Um, yeah, as far as uh the basketball court, as far as the lighting is concerned, um, is there any way you can take those lights, install them on a pole, and face them toward your house?
Again, >> aside from having them mounted on your house facing the neighbors, it's I I want I shared earlier this is super that we had we had to save
for a very long time to put that on a property. >> I understand we're empathetic. We're humans, but we also have to adhere to, >> right? I I I mean, I'm I'm I'm sitting here. I don't have money to have a lawyer. The variance already has been
super expensive. This is an unanticipated cost, right? And to stick those lights on the other side is going to be a super
heavy bill. So if I I'm not going to say I'm not going to say no. But at the same time, if if we can find a way that those lights are fully reasonably blessed the way they are,
whether that means that they get dimmed even further or whatever it is, we just we don't need it to be a sports facility. We just need to throw some light on there. It got it got like dark before 5 today. If it was 65 degrees, I'd love for them to be out there to
play till 6:30 instead of looking at their iPad or whatever, right? Like that's the that's the only purpose. So if if you guys twist my arm, I'm not going to say no, but I'm hoping that we could leave them where they are. And if
Craig's group can bless it, then where they are, it would be a lot less expensive for me. So, I'm hoping that maybe we that could be a consideration. >> Any any other questions? Angela? >> Um, do you have any any a sense of what
the number what the light intensity number is the night that we visited the site at the property line? I know it's it's so the the intensity map that you gave has zero. The obnoxious part that you saw is because half the light cuz if
you aim the light down and it's got 120° beam angle, half the light is immediately hitting this the face of the house. So you do that times 12, that's why it glowed that way, right? And again here, let me just This is a picture of
what the um the light absorbent paint is inside. I took a picture from inside. Anytime you show us something, we got to make it a exhibition. >> Uh, this will be exhibitable will be marked as >> a So once I painted the inside surfaces
and put a guard on the front >> Mhm. >> it if you you saw the letter, >> it dramatically went down like it was glowing. I looked at it and I was like, "Oh my god, this is >> just trying to get a sense like number-wise with with the with the intensity map here versus what we had
saw that night. Do you have like any sense of what what difference it made? >> The surprisingly the intensity that's on the field was very similar. >> It Okay. So numbers are similar, >> but the obnoxious part that you're like, "Oh my god, this is lighting up this court, right?" >> Mhm.
>> It's because it was it was the house was lit up, right? And the lights right under the top row were lit up because it was shining directly on them. So that's where the extra light came from. So once the shield went on and the light the light absorbing paint went on, it
absorbed all that extra light and that's gone. If you look at the picture, all that extra light's gone. It doesn't light anything up anymore. In fact, >> I want to interrupt you, but you didn't answer her question. It should be basically >> it's it's similar. I It's similar. >> I think Yes. So just just I don't have
the old one. >> I don't know the numbers. So you don't have the numbers, but if I understand correctly, the numbers that are on this intensity map on the field portion and on the property line portion are similar. >> I showed um I had a light intensity
meter. I took a picture right underneath >> um here. I have it. I have it. I have it. This was from the night of. It's 17 17 foot candles. But this is right right at the edge
>> at the property line. >> Right on the closest point of the surface >> of what? >> Your property >> of the surface. >> No, the property line she's asking about. And >> oh, on the property line, >> right? So that's so that's 17 that you're showing now. Where is that?
>> That's right underneath directly underneath the lights the night of. So where it says on this intensity map where it says around like 9.2 that it's you're saying >> oh that's right that's on the field that's in >> if you look at the edges >> Uhhuh. >> it's all zeros right
>> on this intensity map. Yes. >> Right. Right. >> Okay. So that's >> even that's what I was shocked about cuz I was I was getting like how are we going to achieve less than 0.1 foot candles? Right. >> So I'm just trying to get a sense. So this so this 17 right here.
>> Yeah. This is after this. >> That's the night of >> This is the night that we visited. >> That's right. >> Okay. So, if right now after you've put up the blockers, >> it's now it's it's in line with the map that you see. >> It's where it says 9.2. >> That's right. >> Okay.
>> Okay. This exhibit was marked as A9 for the record. >> A9. >> Is there an A9 on there somewhere? >> Yes, I did. >> Okay. And then just one last question then about the use of the of the field area. So you said that it was designed
with a a home to second throw. So where is home plate? So if there's a home run hit, where's the ball going? >> No, no, no. It's not that the it's a throw. It's the longest measured throw in baseball. Right. >> Right. But if you use it for uses other than a throw, if your kids are out there
playing whiffle ball and someone hits a whiffle ball really far, where's the whiffle ball going >> directional-wise with your neighbors? I I mean we haven't gotten that far. So I >> Well, I guess just where are they facing? Are they facing are are they
would they be facing like to on the towards the street or they facing the other way? Just so we can understand directional because how we spoke about where the basketball's going if we miss. I'm trying to get other uses of the court. I I don't I don't I don't know how to I
mean we're we're gonna make sure that balls don't bounce into the street or offend any neighbors. So I don't >> Okay. So it wasn't just I'm just trying to understand the design of the the the court just to see what the use of >> the diagonal design. So if you saw where
the trampoline was. >> Uhhuh. >> So that one of those corners to the opposite corner is 127 ft and that's home to second base. >> Okay. Got it. >> And that's just a throw. That's just because that's a throw. >> Okay. >> But nobody's going to nobody's going to
hit a baseball >> like in that direction. >> Okay. Understood. Thank you. >> Nothing else for me. I'm not going to hammer home the lights because I I think I understand it now more of what you're saying. I am
interested and you kind of confirmed it just now and this was what I thought your testimony was last time and I I did take notes that when you first designed it, you're a former baseball player that it was important to you the distance
between second and home when you fence had this fenced area created. That was your concern is what you said last time. >> Is that >> I I wanted it to be a versatile thing and that one throws the biggest dimension.
>> Right. >> So >> So when you planned it out that I think that is the general question and that's what I got from your testimony last time that we're >> wanted that distance. Yeah. >> Within that fenced area >> for for a thrown ball. Not we're not
going to >> Oh no. I don't mean about hitting the ball. I understand what you're saying. >> Thrown either way. I understand. >> It's not a It's not a baseball field, >> right? The idea of when you fenced it off was the distance to make that throw, >> right? When they're teenagers, I want
them to be able to practice that one throw if they if one of them happens to be a catcher, I guess. >> So, I guess part of my concern all along is, and I totally understand, the town let you put these fences up. I'm not even sure how they let you put a fence
literally almost on your neighbor's yard, but they did and I have no issue with that. My concern is that doesn't necessarily mean they knew what was going to happen in that fenced area. And that's my concern. That was not part of the application, what your intention was
in that fenced area. So, it's hard to say the town gave you a blessing for this because they gave you a blessing for the fence. And obviously I don't I didn't even know you needed a blessing for the Assad, but if you did, I I'll believe you. I didn't know that was a requirement. And it all comes down to us
to understand what the purpose of that area was. It wasn't just to fence in your sideyard. So that's what I think the whole argument is around the sports field is did the town really understand? Because I am sympathetic to you because
they let you put the fence in and you thought you could put whatever you wanted in that fence. >> The fence the fence protects a pool, >> right? >> The fence needed to move to make room for that space. So, we got it okay to rip the original fence out that was pool
compliant, do the work, put the retaining walls in, and then put the fence back around it because we wouldn't normally even, I don't think, need a fence, but there's a
pool there, so it needed to be fenced back in to be pool compliant. So the pool the purpose of the fence is actually pool and again if if we got to go up to 12 feet so the balls don't go I mean she shared last last time that
ordinances are to protect neighbors so if and you'll hear so sorry Frank seriously but like if you were going to hear from six Birkshshire I'm I'm sure he doesn't care if a basket and I know that he might move but
If we could get it blessed like this, great. If we have to go to up to 12 feet behind it, because that's another basketball related stipulation, the only other one in that thing, right? It it'll never be an issue for a neighbor. >> Here's the problem there. It's more than just you and your neighbors. You have to
understand the next person that comes in who does this and has a full neighborhood who doesn't support them. >> We have to follow the same rules. You can't treat people uniquely. We have a set of rules we have to apply. And that is the problem. We, you know, if anybody
from Homedale comes here, we have to look at what our rules say. Now, I understand you did a lot of work not knowing the rules, but that's a problem. >> The only work that I did >> Looks like we're going back. Well, the basketball court is huge. >> The only work that I did the the only
work that I did that I didn't get approval for were the lights and the basketball hoop. But you made that that basketball hoop by burying it like you described last time how you buried it. That's a huge issue for us because it's not like we can just move it and say to
you, "Hey, move the basketball court." You did it in such a way you you buried it underground in cement. >> So that's why I'm saying by you not knowing the rules, >> we have to think about everybody in Homeell. So the next person who again says, "Well, I think I'll build a cement
basketball court in my yard." and they come here and their neighbors aren't supportive. The rule isn't are the neighbors supportive. The rule is does it follow the ordinance requirements and is this good for home?
>> Understood. Just so just to be clear, we can unbolt that basketball hoop from where it is and reinstall it someplace else. The point is it's not feasible to go
anywhere else on the property. That's the spot if there's going to be a basketball hoop. That's the spot that makes the most sense for that basketball hoop. That said, the only ordinance that has anything to say about the position of a basketball hoop says it needs to be
20 feet off the off the curb, 10 feet off the right of way, and it's well inside of the compliance. what I got approved has a basketball hoop added to it. Again, it goes back to
the dog with the lion's costume on doesn't make it a lion. It's not any that space isn't any different if there's a basketball hoop on it or not, right? And it doesn't matter if it's portable or not. That basketball hoop is in compliance. There are 6,500 homes in
Homeell. And I did take time to drive around and take pictures of a lot of them. There are there are 800 plus basketball hoops that are closer to the street than mine, right? And I'm not saying that any of them are out of
compliance. And there are some out of the there's like almost 50 that are on the street, but and I'm not saying make this a witch hunt and go take them all down. I'm just saying that the actual ordinance says 20 feet off the curb and you're good for a basketball hoop. That's what it says. 10 feet off the
rightway. >> Okay, I think you answered the question for Lori. Lori, anything else? >> Nope. >> Okay, it comes to me now. Again, I'm not I speak as an individual, not as speaking for the board. So, we this this
little application is taking longer to do than major subdivisions that we've done. And it's complicated because of a lot of things that happened that happened during this situation from the beginning until now. So
the underlining thing that we're voting on is a couple things today. The lights realistically we don't have a say in that because we already heard from everybody about the compliance and the planning that they're not an issue on the ordinance as you discussed with us.
It's the whole property of the court where it is and how are we going to make it compliant. Now, it would be a big hardship for us to make you move it. >> Make me move what? >> The whole court to make it comply. >> I I can't do that. >> I I didn't ask you. I'm saying I'm I'm
giving you a comments. So, when we have these type of situations, sometimes what we do is we do a give and take. We try to let you get most of what you want, but you have to give something up. Like for example, a person puts in a pool and
they have more patio area than is allowed by imperous coverage. So we usually say to them, okay, maybe if you shave a little bit off of this side, a little bit off of this side, we can we can live with that. And most people say, okay, that's that I giving a little give
and a little take. So, I think that's what we're we're faced here. What to do? You mentioned the 12-oot fence by the basketball sign. Personally, I don't care if you keep it at the same height. The kids are going to have to jump over the fence and the neighbors will live with that. Is it something that's going
to make a make or break this case? No. I think everybody focused on the light because that's really what affected the neighborhoods. you you did a a strong effort of putting trees all along the property to hide the court. You made a great effort there. It looked wonderful.
In about five years, you wouldn't even know that there it's there anymore. So, I personally, and you know, we're not voting right at this moment, but I personally could live with it the way it is. What I was I was concerned about, and it has nothing to do with the case, but that's where the give and take comes
is I was concerned with the neighbors getting disturbed with the lighting. So now you went ahead, again, I'm not picking on you. I don't want you to think or the people out there think I'm picking on you. After our discussion, you didn't you went ahead and built the boxes. You shouldn't have done that. You
should have waited for this hearing so that we could have discussed it and find out what the alternative is and how we can mitigate the lighting because I'm not sure. I saw all the numbers. If I want to believe all those numbers, then you probably are okay. But I know when I
was there last time that light was all over that culde-sac. You could play basketball and baseball in the culde-sac. So I'm going to hear what all your neighbors have to say about this. But that's my only issue that I have. So to get a positive vote for me, you would have to make some sort of a concession
whether you did what Vinnie said or whether we come up with another solution for the lighting because that's the thing that's affecting the neighbors. Nobody ever complained about where the proximity of your courts are to the property line or anything like that. Nobody's even talking about that. It's
all about the lights which are not even part of this discussion theoretically. >> But that's where we're at. >> The planes. >> Yes. >> I I just wanted to clarify because earlier when I was talking about the lighting uh questions that I had, they were to specify like the timing and the
height of the lights. that there is the second requirement that requires direct sources of light not be visible from any public street or adjoining residential property. And I just wanted to put that out there because I think that was the thing that was discussed last time. Are these direct sources of light? Are they
visible from adjacent residential properties? And that is something that you have to determine with the shields. Is that no longer the case or does it require a variance still? >> Thank you for that uh addition. So that's my general comment. So before we
even get to a discussion where we discuss about the vote and what we we would like to see, I'm going to open it up to the public. So public, here's what we're going to do. And in order to save time, I did say we're going to do questions and then comments. I will allow some people may have questions of
the applicant about what they did. So I will allow a combination of either or. You will have to come up to the mic. You'll have to state your name and address where you live for the record and and tell us if it's a question,
you'll ask the applicant a question. If it's a comment, you'll address it to us. Comment about whatever it is that you want to talk about. Now, if it's going to be a comment, you're going to have to get sworn in. So, basically, you'll raise your hand and our attorney will swear you in. Okay. So, with that being
said, I think I'll start on the left side. Anybody on this side have a comment or question they want to talk about? Come on up. >> Larry Kaiserman, >> you're going to have to speak a little louder. >> Oh my god.
>> Is it on? Hello. >> Hello. Try to be within two three inches of that mic. >> Can you hear me? >> Yeah, that's good. >> Question. >> Comment or question? >> Uh, comment. >> Swear you in. >> Swear you in.
>> You swear testimony you're about to give is the truth and nothing about the truth. So, I'll help you. >> I do. >> Uh, Larry Kaisererman, 7 Birkshshire Court. >> So, where are you in relation to the applicant? >> We are directly across the street.
um >> a py. >> I'll get to that in just a few seconds if I may. >> First of all, Mike, I I want to compliment you and I have absolute admiration for your care and concern for
your kids. My concern is the lighting. Uh Claudia and I have lived in Homedale since 1989. We've raised two wonderful men, two wonderful boys, and we had them playing
sports as well. I mean, you know, within the confines of our property. >> I'm sorry, you have to speak up a little bit. I don't know if >> the >> they're here in the back. >> I have some photos of what we took the night of the inspection. I'll submit
them if you care to, but my concern is that the lights uh shine brightly into my windows in my bedroom and my first floor. Um the property on four is angled so the wall
is almost directly facing not quite but almost directly facing my house. I'm the perhaps the only one that it truly affects. Um and uh
I'm hoping that there is some sort of solution because having that bright light does affect my wife and myself. We get to bed early. We um are accustomed to a dark area in that
neighborhood for many many years. Um, that's my primary concern is the light shining into my property and being extraordinarily white, bright. Uh, when I had my kids playing, we had low-level
spotlights. They may not have been like a sports field, but there was certainly enough light for them to play. And that's my only comment. I have photos if you wish to see the photos that I took.
I >> suppose I'll take it. Thank you. >> Is Is that the end of your statement, sir? >> Marquez is 01. >> 01. >> Before you go down, let us look at them. So, if any of the board members have
questions, they can ask you. >> So, >> so your house, because I was there and I was trying to observe, is the one opposite up high or up? You're up high. >> Yes, we're we're elevated. Um, so, uh,
>> there are lights coming straight up to you. >> The the light reflects. Now, I haven't seen the lights on. Mike did some sort of great job, I guess, doing a box. I have no idea what that light looks like. It's never I've never seen it
>> turned on. >> Okay. So whether it reflects directly into my window still, um there was one or two pictures there that I have of the box. I I I can see the lens of the light
without the light being on, but you know, I guess that could be modified. I don't know if that's even a a solution or not. That's all our concern. >> Okay. >> Can I ask a quick question? Were these taken inside? Are you inside the house or outside the house? The first two, >> okay,
>> are on the inside of my house. >> Okay. >> Looking out windows. >> Oh, okay. >> Number one and number two I have. >> Okay. >> And I before you sit down, I also would like Mr. Jensen Jenkins to look at the
photos, too. >> You know, you're entitled to it. He's presenting evidence. So, >> it's it's from the light night of, right? It's from the night of the >> the night of >> Yeah, I agree, Larry. It It was obnoxious. I thought it was obnoxious,
too. So, that's why we recognizing maybe I shouldn't have done it yet, but I I don't know what else to do. I'm >> I I tried to fix it. >> Okay. Well, it's okay. You don't have to go back and forth with it. >> I I have no issue other than >> Nobody has any issues with anybody here.
We're all friends, but we just want to make everybody happy. >> I'm happy to. Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you very much for your comment. Anybody else on you come on up, >> name address. >> Hello. Hello everyone. Uh David
Kaisererman also affirm about the >> I do. Thank you. Um David Kaiserman, Sam Burkshire Court. Um, so obviously, uh, some of the neighbors are here and in support and it might not affect them.
Uh, and it probably doesn't because the lights are aimed at our house, um, not theirs. So, we have all the respect in the world and we want their kids to have a great time. We really want them to enjoy the field. I have kids myself.
They go between two different towns, but I have kids myself and I know that the value of being a dad is extremely important to want to do good for your kids. And I respect that and I actually empathize, not sympathize with that feeling very much. With that said
though, um they say that sports brings neighbors together and here we are talking about basketball. It's kind of funny. Um but just as an example, the agenda says that there are 12 600 lu lights, which would be 7,200 lumens.
Just as a side note, old 60W bulbs are 800 lumens. So that's only 9,600 lumens. If you go to Dollar General or Family Dollar, you can get 12 $25 lights. Each of those alone is 3,000 lumens, which is
actually 36,000 lumens. So my point is that it's actually very bright. My recommendation um is if we can't put the pole up and or put some sort of redirectional, simply take down
six of them, keep 12, and you'll still be at uh almost 15,000 lumens, which is still higher than uh 45 60 watt bulbs. So maybe that's the compromise. Cut the cut them in half. This way he doesn't have to spend more
money. just turn six off and you'll still be lighting up the culde-sac, but at least it's not as bad. Our only concern is one, we don't care about the basketball. We don't care about even the the sports complex at this point. That's we can't change it. We we don't want to
see Mike spend more money either. That's that's horrible. But just don't have the lights in our window. That's it. It's the simplest. >> Now, you live there you live there at that house also. Also, you live with with your parents. >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. But uh like I said, everything else we don't have any issues with
whatsoever. Simply no lights in the windows. That's it. And then we're good to go. >> Okay. Thank you very much for your comment. >> You're welcome. >> Anybody else from that side? Okay, we move to this side. Go ahead, sir. In the back, you raised your hand. Is this going to be a comment or question?
>> Okay, we need your name and address and you're going to get sworn in. >> Swear first. Your swear testimony you're about to give is the truth and nothing but the truth. So, have you got >> just state and spell your name for the record? >> Frank V O L P I C. >> Close to the mic. Close to the mic. They can't hear you in the back. >> You got to do it again, sir.
>> Frank Vella. V O L P I C E L L A. I am at Six Birkshshire Court. I'm I'm on the side of the basketball court on the side of the house. We're up raised up high and that land that's down there where the basketball could potentially go to is way out of the way. We We have
zero concerns about that. U Mike's been very respectful. He built something really nice for his kids. So, we have no concerns with a basketball court or any balls coming over >> and the kids climbing over to your property to get the ball. >> He built the gate. So, now you're going to climb. They're just going to open the gate and go get it and go back. So,
>> it's just also has to do with legal insurance requirements. Somebody gets hurt and you're climbing over or go to your property, you know, if you're okay with that, that's fine. >> Yeah. But like like you said, I mean, it's just my opinion. >> Okay. That's why you're here. We take your opinion. >> Anything else?
>> That's it. >> Okay. Thank you. Anybody else on this side? Raise your hand. Come on up, miss. Okay, now we got to lower the mic. >> You can take it off. >> I should have did it in in size height
order. People with the questions. >> So, just bring it within a couple inches of No, push it down. Yeah. >> Go ahead. >> Affirm the testimony about to give us the truth about the truth. >> Yes. Name and address. >> Melissa Laauo, 8 Birkshshire Court. >> Wait, say it slowly so you can lu last
name. A Birkshshire Court. >> I'm sorry. I apologize. Just spell your last name. >> L AU. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, I live next to Frank and Ellie, one house over. >> I'm sorry. What was it? Three Birkshshire. >> Eight. >> Eight. Yes. Thank you.
>> So, we're at the end of the culdeac. Um, we have no fence. My kids play basketball out there all the time. So, apologies. the ball goes into their property all the time. And I asked them, "Are you okay if my son runs in to grab the basketball?" And again, we have no concerns. Um, we drove by the other day
and saw you out there playing with your kids. I thought it was a beautiful thing. Um, you're going to get me all emotional cuz my kids all grown up. Um, I just think it's a shame. We're all neighbors in the culde-sac. If you had concerns with the light, you
should you could have gone and talked to them. >> All right, miss. Address us. where it's not appropriate. We don't want it to be neighbor against neighbor and that's you're kind of setting that up for >> Okay. So, I take that back, but I just really wish, you know, it would it it would have been handled nicely. My
grandfather died the day he came crying to my husband. It's just very upsetting. So, I I'm here to say that we're in support. Again, I haven't seen the lights on, so I can appreciate and understand the concerns of the light being turned on. I have not witnessed it. we are away, you know, one house
away and we haven't had any issues. So, I I really can't attest to the light. I I just want to be open and transparent about that. But knowing Michelle and Mike, they're not here to cause problems, and I appreciate that. You know, they they're here to just try to do the right thing and and talk to us.
So, again, I'm just here to say, you know, my husband and I were in support. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> And that and that's a good point that you made. That's something you probably should have did is open your lights and invite all your neighbors to come out and see if they liked it or not. This
way you could have had them give comment on the lights besides just saying they don't mind the basketball. >> Again, I I I never got a chance to turn them on before the inspector came to tell me not never to do that until >> we That's where you have a little latitude. You could have done that
>> after after I did that though. After we turned him face down, I he he already left, but I worked with Frank and I said, "Hey, I put a shield up. What does it look like now?" Cuz he did say it was like, "Dude, the side of your house is
all lit up." Right, Frank? The guy that >> from six that talk. >> I got it. I got it. >> And I worked with him and I said, "What does it look like now?" He's like, "That's amazing. >> That's great." >> Okay. Next person to come up to make a statement. Come on up. Raise your hand
or just walk up. >> Whatever, sir. With the blue shirt. >> Oh, he's coming. Okay. >> Comment. >> Is this a comment? >> This is a comment. >> So, you guys you in affirm the test you're about to give is the truth and nothing but the truth.
>> Yes. >> Okay. Name and address. Spell your name. >> Q I R K. >> How's that? >> Good. Uh the address 10 Long View Drive, Homedale
>> Long View, that's the street coming down off of way back. Go ahead. >> Yeah. So I live in the adjoining property. Our backyards are the same. We have share property line and so we haven't been affected by the sports court, basketball hoop, lighting. We
haven't noticed anything. So as far as its neighborhood effect, we have felt that there's no effect. >> Okay. I have a couple more comments. >> Sure. >> All right. So, just having been a witness to all the testimony.
>> Let me pull up my notes. >> You know, it seems to me that there's a little bit of time that's been spent here that's not warranted, right? He's shown that the lighting, we've been talking about lighting for like five hours. The from all the evidence that's been presented, the lighting is within
the ordinance, right? Plus, the variance has nothing to do with the lighting. the variances for the sports court, right? And it seems to me a little bit unfair to give the guy the permit, let him go to the city, went through the whole process, right? Then installed it, had
it inspected, then he installs a basketball hoop, and all of a sudden this arbitrary definition of sports court comes from, you know, there's no definition in the ordinance, right? So it seems like out of somewhere the guys invested so much
money and time not to mention the time spent on this whole process right and everybody's talking about the sports court but nobody can define what it is right so if the whole thing is predicated and these offsets or the the distance of this and the distance to that is predicated on the fact that this
a sports court and it's an impervious surface and nobody can define right pursuant to the standards that we've heard what a sports court is. It seems unfair to penalize him, right, based on the fact that you're going to make a determination after the fact, right?
Already constructed of what a sports court is, right? And not to mention, we're here for hours and hours talking about a variance to a zoning variance that has nothing to do with lighting. The lighting is within the v the lighting was within ordinance,
right? And so we're talking about a zoning varian. >> Mr. work. Not to interrupt, you can finish your comment, but when he started, the lighting was not within the the light intensity scale. So, he needed a variance at that time. And there's another variance that can't be seen from
the street or an adjoined neighbor, which is a separate variance, which is still an open variance even if it's zero foot candles at the street based on some of the testimony. I'm not going to interpretate for interpret for the board, but that's my opinion as to what our planner said. So there is still a
light variance that I believe is needed. The intensity one I believe is no longer needed because you have your light intensity shield stuff. So if it's verified so but when he started those were required. So this all started when stuff was required. So I just don't want to mis have the misunderstanding out there with
>> I guess yeah I'm sorry. I guess my point is there's there's a lot of people here and we're spending a lot of time all of us together and as a community I don't know if this is the level of scrutiny that that is you know required for a basketball court. It seems like we've gotten caught up in the process and it's
kind of being you know o o over over you know analyzed. So that's all. Hang on let me see if >> remember whatever we approve stays with the property and will be there forever. So it is to me important to do the right thing. >> Yeah. It's not it's not just comments, you know, you're going to be there for
next 10 years or who knows how long and you're gone and it's over with, but the next person's going to live with it, >> you know, and they won't find out. >> I said in my comments, it doesn't have any effect. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh comments from another person.
>> So, we had a lot of fans, but no comments. >> Come on up. Comment. >> Comment. >> Okay. State your name and Okay. Tell the truth, not the truth, help your God. >> Yes. >> Spell your name and your address.
>> Joe Samoski. Um, >> spell the name. >> Joe. J O E. S U M A S K I. >> Five Birkshshire Court. Property directly across the street from
Jenkins. >> Hello. >> Across the street. >> Uh, directly across the street. So below the other one that testified with the lighting in his light >> to the left. Okay. It's like directly across the street. So um
>> yeah, we're just in full support of the Jenkins and them building this activity area next to to their property for their children. Um we have no issue with it. uh you know they I think they put a tremend no one's arguing they put a tremendous investment into this and I
think it's additive to to the neighborhood overall and they've done obviously Mike's shown uh a lot of willingness to work uh with everyone and make it I think an acceptable property for everyone in the in the neighborhood.
So, um, yeah, I think, uh, Martin, what you said, we're sort of boiling this down to to these final little items around the lighting, uh, variances that need to be accepted. Again, assuming all this stuff comes in within uh the limits
that are set, then I, you know, I I think we've spent enough time here on all this and I think we're down to these final elements and um, you know, overall fantastic neighbors. I think uh it's additive to the entire um little enclave
that we live in over there. So that's that's all for me. >> Thank you. Thank you for your comment. Next, >> the gentleman with the sweater. You've been there. Are you not going to come up and say something? >> Okay, go ahead.
>> Hello. >> I have a question and a comment. >> Okay. Well, we'll swear you answer what whatever order you want. Do you swear to tell the truth, nothing about the truth? I hope you got >> I do. Uh, my name is Grace Modla. I live at 11 Long View Drive. >> Spell your name for the record. >> It's M O DL A
>> D L. Okay. So, I have uh first of all, I want to commend the board. Um because this is not an easy job and I've been sitting here listening to how all of you are taking this and every case that comes before you very seriously to
keep Homeell, you know, Homeell. So, I just want to thank you for that. I want to ask you um whether you're all going to make another site visit to see the new and improved modified lower lights in action uh
before you oh just just in general I mean I know you saw the big bright lights but do you have any plans to go and see how Mike has mitigated that? So to answer that question, we haven't discussed it yet up here and you'll get to hear us all discuss whether we want
to do that or not. >> Fair enough. And so my comment is um our house is across the street. We're very far from all of this uh from this, but nevertheless, we are supportive of our
neighbor Mike. Um it certainly sounds to me um knowing him that and hearing that he's really put his heart and soul into this and is very uh desirous to comply in every possible way. Um but I think we
all understand none of us wants lights in our bedrooms shining. I think we're all in agreement of that and so I am sympathetic to our neighbors over here. Um, but I just wanted to come out in to be in solidarity with Mike and I and we
certainly don't have any issue with uh the the play area and the lighting and so forth. So, thank you very much. >> You're welcome. >> Come on up, sir. >> Now, we got to raise it up. That's why I should have had you. >> We'll leave it. It's fine.
>> No, tilt it up. >> How's that? Good. >> I don't know. So when you start talking I'll tell you >> comment. Yeah. >> Oh just you swear to tell the truth about the truth you got >> I do >> state your name please.
>> Andrew Gerstein ge rer s t e i n and I live at nine long view. I'm yeah I'm on long view on the other side of the on the other side of the basketball hoop. So what does not affect my house uh where he is located. Um, so just you mentioned me being here and if I had
anything to say to be honest, I really didn't have too much to say. I came I think my presence really does enough. Um, just I met Mike. I moved into neighborhood six months ago. I came here tonight simply to support a neighbor. Um, the persistence, the commitment,
everything that he's done is unbelievable and admirable. So this doesn't affect me. I understand their complaint and I think that we're working towards some sort of resolution which I hope we all get to. Um Mike has been an amazing neighbor. Welcome me to the
neighborhood. So I simply wanted to show up tonight in support of him. So that's all I got. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Anybody else? >> And just so I thank you ma'am for recognized we're all volunteers up here. We even have a newly uh mother here
that's has a baby that came out here. Uh, how many months old? Three months old. >> Two. >> Two months old. And she's here. So, think about our commitment, too. We're trying to do the right thing for Homedale, too. All of us. >> You swear to tell the truth. Nothing about the truth. I hope you guys >> Yes.
>> Kenny Keller, five Birkshshire Report. >> I just wanted to say uh earlier one of your comments about it's not just about what the neighbors think because they're building something that's going to last for many years to come. So, I would say not just as a neighbor, but just as
anybody driving through the neighborhood to see what they've built. Not only does it look pleasing to the eye, but it's a beautiful area, play area, let's call it. And, you know, if it were grass, I don't think any of this would even peique anyone's
interest because it just because it's turf. And again, you address the the allergies. But to go a step further about the aesthetic or how it looks for further neighbors to live there. Um there's trees that are all around it and I know we said earlier the trees are going to grow. So, you know, I would
think that anyone moving into the neighborhood would be pleased to be looking at that versus what some neighbors have to look at at other homes which are overgrown weeds or grass or, you know, stained siding. They keep their property impeccable. So for anyone
to come in and say that could be even considered an eyes sore just doesn't even make sense to me. They've gone above and beyond to not just make it look nice but look amazing. And they preserve their property. They keep everything beautifully manicured on their entire property. So I don't see
why this would be any different. And again we're very happy with the overall addition that they put in. >> Thank you. >> That's it. >> Is that any other comments? Okay. So, at this point, we'll close the public comment part of it. Um, we could
have you make a final statement and then we're going to start discussing all the different things we have to talk about. >> You don't have to make a comment if you don't want. I'm scared to make a comment because I feel like Grace touched on it
and I'm just thinking that this is going to be another lot of money if this goes another round. But she makes a good point. Maybe come out and look at the shielded lights because it is wildly different than what
you guys saw. And to David's point, I calculated 65% of that light is not coming out of there. So that's effectively turning more than half of them off, right? With
the way it is now. Um I I'm hoping to your point about the concession. I I don't I didn't want to try to beat anybody to the punch. That wasn't the point. I I genuinely when I see a problem, I try to disappear it. I don't want there to be a problem. That's why why I took the effort to put the
shielding up. I didn't I didn't mean to overstep. Um, but if we can circumvent another hearing and have an understanding where Craig's group, as long as Craig's group says that's in
compliance with the ordinance fully, right? Every single thing if we can high-five and let's go as far as the lights are concerned. And again, as far as the basketball hoop, the dog's not a lion and the lion's not
a dog, whether that hoop is there or not. And the the the metrics indicate that the hoop on its own is fine and in accordance with the ordinance. So again, if we have to turn the lights on ear earlier or off earlier to make people
happy and it's and Craig's group says it's in accordance and and if if I'd I'd love to not have to put 12t fences up behind, but we're happy to make some sort of concession to ensure that our neighbors are always protected from errant basketballs going
over the fence. And if I I got to make it 12 feet for those two segments, then it'll never happen. Um I hope that that's clear. I I I hope I hope we could just get it all set with the stipulation that
if if the lights are in in accordance with the ordinance fully, then they shouldn't be part of this at all. And and again, I can't undo the field. And then it comes down to whether or not we feel like the basketball hoop is a
big deal or not. So >> I Okay. All right. Um I think we can come to Well, we're going to come to a conclusion tonight one way or another. I don't think the board is going to want to come back out there, but I have a a possible solution to that if if my
attorney says it's okay. Um so before I say that, I want to hear comments on is there any sticking issues that you guys are bothered by? Are we okay with the court where it is and not have to worry about anything with that? He did the
trees. It looks nice. Do we need to be concerned with that or is the lighting the only >> Can I ask >> Can I just get confirmation? >> I forgot to say one thing. Sorry. Yep. Go ahead. >> You have to finish. >> I apologize. I I I I I
the the I I genuinely feel like you guys are covered from a precedent perspective either way. If you have to call it a sports court, then we got to bite the bullet and call it a sports court. But I genuinely don't think you have to do that. The other recreational area, it's
it's listed there. A sports court's impervious. This thing's not There is some flexibility you guys have. So either way you guys I feel like are covered from a precedent perspective. So >> thank you. >> Sorry. Go ahead. Lori,
>> can I ask a question of the planner actually? And it's more of >> like the engineer said it could be compliant but then you mentioned a second ordinance. So now I'm confused. Is there a second ordinance regarding light that can be seen from anywhere on
the street? >> So >> because that's a little different than when we're talking about the illumination. So I that's the one I need to know does that require a variance here? >> Okay, so in regards to the lighting, there's one section of the or ordinance
that has four subp parts and the first one is the height of the lights. The second is whether and I'll read that one again because I think that's the one that's under question right now. It's whether the direct source of light is visible from an adjoining a residential
property or public street. The third is the foot candles. being 20 foot candles maximum. And the fourth is the timing that no um lighting should be after 11 p.m. And this specifically relates to residential, private
recreation lighting. It is in connection with private swimming pool, sports court, or other recreational purpose on a single family residential property. So the second one, I'm just going to read it so that everybody's completely clear on what it says. The requirement is in
order to prevent direct or indirect glare, all lighting fixtures for residential private recreation shall be designed and located so that the direct source of light is not visible from any adjoining residential property or public
street. So it doesn't talk about like we're spending a lot of time as someone mentioned on lumens and how bright it is. But if it's visible from the street or another property then a variance would be required. >> Yes. If the direct source of light uh is
visible from an adjoining residential property or public street and the illumination foot candles is the another standard separate >> that's a different standard. >> Yes. >> Okay. You You guys saw this, right? You guys
saw this letter. >> We're just in board discussion now. >> Now we're in board discussion. So, no more evidence. >> You guys saw this, right? >> You can't. >> Okay. >> Here's my suggestion. Based on that
number two, I don't see how we I don't see how we don't go back out and see. How could we say that it the other property owner is not affected without turning them on with the >> Well, I have an answer for that, but I wanted to hear if there if that was the only issue left. We have a solution to that and try to save him additional cost
of having all our engineers and everybody here. >> Okay, you guys go ahead. >> Yeah, I I think uh basically >> what you're saying and what people >> Mr. Luchiani, make sure your mic is on, please. >> Okay. >> Is it red light? You see the red light,
Jean? Then put your finger on the button on the top and red light. >> It's it's on now. >> Uh I think the problem for for the neighbors across the street is that the light from his his light receptacle can
be seen from there and there's light coming directly out. if he hooded if the lights were totally hooded so that there was no direct light that he can't see the the source of the light then he probably would be okay
but I'm not sure that what uh the applicant has done will accomplish that yet. >> Okay. So, how do you what's your proposal? Uh, I think that the lights need the
source lights need to be in a hood so that the neighbor across the street doesn't see the source of the light, >> right? >> The light should go go directly to the field. >> No light should be coming directly to
him. >> He shouldn't see those lights. Okay? If he does that, then this these people won't have a problem, I don't think. >> Right. >> No. >> Okay.
>> Vinnie. >> Yeah. At this point, the only issue I have is the lighting. And if that's been resolved by the hoods or what you're proposing, then I'm I'm satisfied with all other issues. >> Angela, >> I agree. I I agree with Lori. I think
honestly I'd like to unless whatever you're you're suggesting, but I would like to see to see if this has resolved the issue. >> Mike, >> you have to you nearly need to hear what everybody's saying because it's going to affect affect what happens here. Can you
say that again, Angela? >> Sure. Um, so I agree with Lori that I think um I do I do see the the photo that we were given with the additional coverage that was added to it. Um, but I from the photo I do still see the direct
source. So that's why I think I would need to see in person whether the direct source is actually visible from the street um to see if it if it um if it clears the issue. >> Okay. So here's anybody else have that's said we all made our comments and then
I'm going to make a proposal based on Marty too and and if you need to tweak what I'm saying legally let me know. So what I think we have to do is that we really need to see it again but I don't want to prolong this hearing. So what I'm going to do is make a recommendation
to the board for an approval based on a special condition that's going to be have to be fulfilled before you get the final approval. we have to do a resolution that we vote on. So there's a gap in time that we have an opportunity to to make sure it's okay. So what we
would do is we would ask you to turn on your lights personally ask your neighbors their opinion, but more so we're going to come out at some specific time that we come up and you're not going to be outside. You're going to stay in your house. The lights will just
be on from 7 to 9 or something like that and we'll do a driveby and we'll take a look at how it sees. If we feel that we're not seeing the light like um she defined the planner, then we'll come back and there'll be emails to the board members to say we're okay with it. And
if we're okay with it, then that'll be that that with the box. If we're not okay with it, the next proposal will be that you'll have to move those things off your house at some time or another in order to get full CO approval and face them towards your house. And
that'll definitely solve the issue. But I'm trying to solve that expense for you first by allowing that. Now, board members, are you comfortable with that type of a stipulation? >> From what I've seen of the pictures, I'm not sure that what he's done is enough
yet. >> Yeah. Well, that's why I want to give him an opportunity before he spends more money. >> But we don't want him to spend anything right now. Like, I don't want you to spend a dime. >> Don't do nothing if I understand how adjouring it so we could see it first. I'm not comfortable voting yes without
seeing it. >> Yeah, because then the professionals have to come back again and that's a big expense for him to pay for the hearing and all of us here. So that that expense will pay for his polls probably. >> I could suggest um
>> to solve Lor's issue, you could carry it, have your site visit and come back. The me everything's closed. Just come back to vote on the resolution. Our our professionals don't need to be here for that. that maybe at another for another applicant anyway, but they're not going to be here for this applicant. Uh, and
it's just a vote at that point. You vote with a condition to approve or you vote not to approve if they didn't satisfy you, you know, with your conditions or whatever. So, we could do the vote after the site visit if you guys want with now that the testimony is closed. So,
there's no more testimony regardless. >> It's just a vote. So, but then you have to have >> suppose what we say is that for example that we can still see the lights the way he's got it now. >> Yeah. >> And that we need additional covering
in order to improve. >> There wouldn't be any way to do additional covering. What would have to happen is he would have to move the lights on poles facing his house. So that would have to be the two choices. Wait, >> that's we're on board discussion. He could put uh extend his covering so that
the the lights are not seen from outside. I mean that's the other >> and then what are we going to do? Have another visit to see that >> suggest him to do anything until we see it. Like I really don't want you to spend any more money because it might be perfectly fine now. I just would hate
you to spend anything more and then us say we still don't like it and I just I don't want you to spend any more money. Please. I just really want to go out and see what it looks like. >> I don't blame you, but I was just trying to save him money from having another hearing, but Marty came up with an
answer that would work. Marty, what if at that point >> it's right here. >> We vote that we don't like the likes the way they are. Then how do we tell him that he has to move it to a poll or something else? >> Well, the the applicant will be here. We don't need our professionals for that.
>> You you will suggest a condition. It'll either agree to or not. You'll vote based on whatever conditions they're agreeable. >> Wait, let let's let let's let let our everybody finish talking. You'll have an opportunity. >> I would I would be fine with that. Like I'm not looking to cause him any more money. I just want to see it before I
vote yes. If if it can't be seen from the street, then I'm fine. >> All right. So, board members, are you okay with what Lori is saying? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, Mr. Jensen, are you okay with what we've proposing? >> Is there any chance that we It's two
minutes away over there. Can we just run over there? I'll snap him on real quick right now and we high five. >> Has to be not has to be noticed. >> No worries. I just thought the the the other alternative is >> I'm not a professional and that's why I was comfortable with Craig's group
coming out and hey, if it's close, right? Like let's not throw the baby out with the bath bath water and say look it's blessed. You still got to have Craig come out and tweak it to make sure it's perfect because there might be like a little sliver of light that's creeping through that I didn't notice and I don't
want it to get blown up over a little thing. >> There's going to be an expense there if he sends his people. >> I understand. But it's going to be a lot more expensive if I have to put it on a pole. >> Mr. Jackets, I can I just say something? There's going to be other conditions of if it's approved regardless. One of them
will be for Craig's group to verify the light intensity. That will happen after the resolution. >> We're talking about not having Craig get involved. Now, they just want to see what you did. If it can be visible based on the definition that we heard from our
planner, from the neighbor, if it is in their minds, you're going to be here. Testimony is closed, but they can suggest a condition. You can agree to it or not, and then they can vote. Uh, that's how I would suggest we move forward at that point. >> Makes sense. >> Yeah. Is everybody in agreement with that?
>> Um through chair um reminder next meeting is December 17th which is sent Mina. So we'll have William White engineer and Kate Keller planner. So in case we need those two professionals I'm just saying in case we don't have them
on that day just I'm putting out there. >> So what do you want to do with it the same night as same meanness? >> I'm giving you options. The next meeting they won't be here. >> We already determined we don't need them. They'll be here for three years.
>> Yeah, but the point is that >> they won't be. That's what I want to make sure. >> Would be next year, I thought. >> Right. It is. >> Yeah. Oh, okay. So, we're not talking about same meeters. We need that all night for that. >> Well, if you're just voting, >> I'm I'm giving you an option.
>> So, you tell me we wanted to try to fit him in on St. Mina's night. >> Are you guys okay with that? next meeting. >> We might have a longer meeting. I got to give them time. That's a big application. Are you guys okay with that? >> I mean, we should know if
>> we squeeze them in and say meanness and let maybe him go first. >> Yeah, maybe. >> It shouldn't take long. >> I'm not trying to influence the board. I'm just giving you an option. Putting this on the record. >> It has to be a quick 15 minute. We have a very big application. We're squeezing
you in. >> You know, >> I don't think there's too much more to talk about. I and I genuinely appreciate you guys hanging in with me and I I >> I can't even believe you're here if you have a two-month-old at home. >> So, bless you. >> So, as long as you understand what I
propose, that's what will happen. >> To pick a date while >> we will pick we will pick a date. So, if the board is uncomfortable with the lighting, we either have to put it on polls or I don't know what else we would do to take away bulbs or something because we we don't want to keep going
with this. We're not going to come back and you do something and we got to keep coming. >> I don't I don't I think you guys are going to look and you're going to be like, "Wow, that's fine." I I genuinely think you guys are going to And if there's a little light creeping through, I'll fix it >> just just to make sure we cover all the bases. You should also include all your neighbors on whatever date we choose and
let them look at it, too. >> Yes. >> Okay. But I say one last thing. On that night, the board will give its opinion of the site visit. If they think a minor tweak will solve it and you agree or don't agree, they will
vote on that. So if you don't agree, they may vote >> to deny when they may vote to agree if you have the condition. I'm just letting you know. So you need to be here to hear what their results are of their site visit. And if there's a minor tweak, you know, it's going to be based on what you say based on how they vote.
>> You guys say when and I'll be here. >> All right. So >> just to clarify, is this official site visit or not official? Because I have to send the notice out. I just want to make sure I have enough time. >> Yeah, you got the >> Just one question on the lights. Are they dimmable? >> The lights are fully dimmable. They are. >> Okay. So, the night we went on uh to
visit the site >> when the contractor does the appropriate work. The light the the dimmer is not operative operating right now, but they do have two extra wires to dim them. And that'll that'll be set up if you guys are not comfortable with the I genuinely
don't feel like you guys are going to have a problem when you see it next. scenario. >> I want to see worst case scenario. >> Vinnie, the testimony is closed. We got to stop. >> We're not talking about any more facts. What he's telling us, we don't know about. >> Okay. Go ahead. We're trying to find a
>> date. You got to do it on the 15th, it seems like. Right. To get your 10 days >> and and get same meanness >> or 14th, huh? >> So, what about the 16th? As long as it's done before the meeting on the 17th. If I if I send a notice out tomorrow, um
I have to check when that can be published. >> That's the meeting that we need to do is the 17th, which is our St. Mina project that we have. So that means it leaves and we
have to send a notice out and it's going to be tight. So we're hoping to do it on the 16th, Tuesday. And uh it gets dark what 5:30 5 something like that. So, uh, what do you think? What time would work for you guys on Tuesday the
16th? >> I have to be at a meeting at 7. So, I can't I have to, uh, be done by then. So, it has to start whatever time you want. You want 6:00 to 8. 5 to 7. What do you guys want? >> 6 to 8 works for me.
>> Yeah, that works. 6 to 8 fine. >> Yeah. >> 6 to 8. >> Okay. So, two hours from 6:00 to 8 o'clock. What day? Tuesday the 16th and hoping that she'll be able to handle the notice. >> I I think we'll be fine. >> 16th between 6 and 8:00 PM. >> Just leave them on.
>> Just leave them on. Go away. No talking. >> Go out to dinner with your family. >> You guys don't want to talk to me. I get it. All right. >> Please. You should. >> I finally get it. >> You don't We want to make it simple. We're going to come look and then when we have the meeting the next day, the 17th, you'll be prepared to hear what we
we're finding. >> Right. And and as far as Jason's recusal, I I wanted to state I did done. Well, that's over with. >> All right. I just the motion second for site visit. >> It's got to be second. >> That's for the site. >> It was for good reason. >> For the site visit.
>> Second on the site visit date. >> I second it. I second it. >> Oh, you second it. Who was the first? >> I don't know. Was I the first? >> No, I thought you you were motioned. >> You were the motion. >> Was I? >> Miss Gerard motioned and Mr. Luchiani seconded. >> Perfect. >> Okay. Mr. Chairman, if I may, uh I just
wanted to clarify um at the resolution and we do uh verify it. We'll verify that it's meeting either this um light level map that he provided or at least underneath the ordinance requirements. >> Is that correct?
>> Yeah. But how are you going to verify the other part that she brought up? >> She's not. >> That's uh >> they're not. We That's what we're going to do. >> Okay. So, you're only doing the numbers. the numbers. >> You guys, the way I understand it, you guys come look at it and then he's still got to confirm it, right?
>> You're still talking. >> We got it. >> You should be experienced by now. We're done. >> So now we need a motion to carry without further notice >> and she will reach out to seven. >> Did you Did you call that roll call yet for >> just to confirm 16th between 6 and 8
p.m. >> No. Yes. We we kind of got interrupted. Uh, Miss Gerard, >> yes. >> Mr. Luchiani, >> yes. >> Uh, Mr. Orender Bulos, >> yes. >> And Miss Castello, >> yes. >> Thank you. So, site visit for for 44 for
Brickshshire um will be posted for December 16th between 7 and 8:00. We're not done yet. >> 6 and 8. I'm sorry. >> Now, I need a motion to carry without further notice to the 17th. The hearing. Can I have a motion to carry >> to carry the 17th of December to carry
to the 17th of December without further notice? >> All in favor? >> I >> thank you. >> Now we're done. >> So I come to the 17th again too, right? >> You have to be here. >> Yes. >> I appreciate you guys listening. >> Can you put this on first? Going to stop talking now.
>> Yeah, absolutely. This is going to be first. >> Um >> unless there is reports from the professionals. Motion and second to close the meeting. Motion to >> motion to close. >> What? Motion to close. >> Mr. Luchian,
>> thank you.