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those should re-put those in this meetings folder. They were in the last meetings folder. Um but no, you didn't miss too much. >> Okay. >> To the chair, this is H Cam. We're live and recording now. >> Great. Thank you.

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Judy, can you hear me okay? >> Yep. >> Okay. Good. So on and off headphones. Or to say so. Never know how I'm going to come in. Welcome back, Ted. >> Thank you. See, Melissa was nicer to you, wasn't

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she? >> She was. >> [laughter] >> Thank you. >> Ted greeted me with a "Here comes Ted. Here comes trouble." Or something like that. >> I did not say trouble. I said glutton for punishment. That's a big difference.

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>> [laughter] >> And Melissa just added that we are not expecting Walter or Peggy tonight. So it looks like just Matt we're waiting on. >> Okay. >> Jim just signed in. >> Oh, he did. Okay. Oh, there he is. I see him.

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>> Hello everybody. >> Hi Jim. >> Hi Jim. >> Hi Jim. >> And did you say you're waiting for Matt? >> Moin. >> Uh correct. >> Um I gave him a see you later tonight. Uh and then he said he wasn't going to be on.

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>> Oh, yeah. He He emailed that he was going to jump on and then might have to leave and so we'll we'll see. >> Thank you though. >> Melissa, we have four. Would you like What time is it? >> Yeah, you can go ahead, Ted. We do have a quorum. So if you want to >> Okay. >> kick Ted

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>> Here we go. This is the July 14th, 2026 open meeting of the Hopkinton Conservation Commission being conducted remotely consistent with an act extending certain COVID-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency.

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The new law authorizes all members of a public body to continue participating in meetings remotely. The open meeting law open meeting laws requirement that a quorum of the body and the chair be physically present at the meeting location remains suspended.

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For this meeting the Hopkinton Conservation Commission is convening by video conference via Zoom as posted on the town's web meeting calendar and the Conservation Commission agenda identifying how the public may join. Additionally,

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the meeting may also be broadcast by HCAM through one or many of its channels or platforms. Please note that this meeting is being recorded and that all attendees are participating by video conference. Accordingly, please be aware that others

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may be able to see you and take care not to screen share your computer. Anything that you broadcast may be captured by the recording. Please also keep yourself on mute unless and until called on by the chair. Supporting materials that have been

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provided to the members of the Commission for this meeting are available on the town's website. This meeting will feature public comment. After commission members and staff have discussed each project application on the agenda, the chair will open the

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discussion to public comment. Members of the public who wish to speak are asked to identify their name and address. Three minutes will be afforded for each public comment. Each vote taken in this meeting will be conducted via

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roll call of the members. I will now confirm which commission members are present. Melissa Recos, chair. >> Present. >> Ed Harrow. >> Present. >> Jim Cerillo. >> Present.

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>> Has Matt Moyan entered the room? No. Uh we know we do not have Walter Garland or Peggy Schot tonight. I am Ted Barker Hook and I am present. I will now confirm staff that are present. Judy Day, the Hopkinton Conservation Administrator.

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>> Present. >> Anna Rogers, the Environmental and Inspectional Services Coordinator. >> Present. >> And Joe Orzel of Lucas Environmental. >> Present. >> Just to let everyone know we have several continued hearings tonight. In

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fact, almost all of tonight's continued hearings are further continued. Uh 1 Hickory Way continued to August 11th. Uh 0 Franklin Road continued to August 11th. 12 North Mill Street continued to

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August 25th. And 15 Montana Road continued to August 11th. Melissa. >> Thanks, Ted. >> You're welcome. >> All right. We can get started on some work session items here then.

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Um first uh uh draft minutes for review. April 7th and May 19th. Does anyone have any comments um or questions about these minutes? All right.

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Hearing none, I will ask um for a motion to approve the minutes of April 7th, 2026. >> I'll make that motion. >> Can I get a second? >> I'll second.

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>> All right. All in favor? Jim? >> I. >> Ed? >> I. >> Ted? >> Ted is an I. >> And I am also an I. And can I get a motion for May 19th, 2026 minutes to be approved?

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>> I'll move. >> Second. >> Thanks, Ted. All in favor? Uh Jim? >> I. >> Ed? >> I. >> Ted? >> Ted is an I. >> And [clears throat] I am also an I.

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All right. Moving right along, we have MBTA zeros Cedar Street, Cordaville Dam projects updates. Um Judy, do you want to introduce this project? And if there's anyone on the line, them

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as well. >> Sure, through the chair. Um so, the commission issued an order of conditions to the MBTA as the applicant for dam maintenance and sediment sampling in 2023. Um it included

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a funky condition, which I'm pulling up right now, regarding mitigation for tree removal uh atop the dam needing to consist of one-to-one replacement plantings for trees greater than 12-in DBH, um as well as some options for how

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the applicant would propose this replanting plan um depending on the schedule of work either through a future notice of intent or within the existing order of conditions. Um so, the applicant's providing an update on their compliance with this

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condition. Um they are choosing to do the mitigation within the existing order of conditions, and they have prepared a tree survey of the trees that were removed atop the dam, as well as a planting plan for the commission to review and provide comments on.

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Um, and we do have a representative on the line as well. >> Hi everyone. My name's Jeremy Fontaine with MBTA Environmental. I'm also here with uh two other members of Environmental, Kylie Palmer and the project manager project manager Daniel Litten and uh who will be taking over

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will actually be CDM Smith, they're our consultant and that's who's been working with the uh commission. So, I'll pass it over to them. >> Great. >> Okay. Uh again, Mike uh if I have my uh phone uh uh camera on. Again, I'm Mike Egan, I'm

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the project manager for CDM Smith. Just going to give you a brief overview of how we got here uh as far as the uh Cordaville Pond Dam study. Again, um also in attendance uh from CDM Smith is

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Maggie Loxsom and Imad who introduced himself earlier. Um as far as the the study on the Cordaville Dam project, we did assess the existing conditions. Uh that included the a hydraulic spillway capacity study.

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Uh structural issues and concerns, seepage concerns, vegetation growth on the earthen dam and public safety measures. Study also recommended uh five alternatives to address these issues. Um that included vegetation that includes a

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vegetation removal, armor earthen embankment, lowering the spillway and raising the earthen embankment, and a full dam decommissioning. Uh the MBTA presently is reviewing these alternatives and the project will uh move forward and advance uh with the

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selected alternative. Um we also performed some supplemental geotechnical assessment and hydrologic and hydraulic uh analysis that investigated the above uh mentioned alternatives and how they would be um uh affected by all of those.

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And Maggie's going to be presenting on um uh presenting on the uh on the uh planting of the mitigation planting plan. And again, we've uh previously performed a sedimentation uh

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a sedimentation sampling and vegetation clearing. Uh the vegetation removal was completed in November of 2024, and the sedimentation uh sampling was done in February of 2024. And with that, Maggie, maybe you can kind of go into a little

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more detail on the mitigation planting plan. Maggie? >> Sure. I'd be glad to. Um so, if the commission members recall, um the uh ODS Office of Dam Safety requirement was to uh is to uh keep um

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no woody vegetation within 20 ft of the downstream uh end of the dam or the toe slope. So, that's uh the trees that were removed uh because of that requirement is the uh one-to-one mitigation that was

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required by special condition 61. So, we we did an inventory of the cut trees in April of this year, and um we determined that 49 trees had been cut. Uh and that

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plan was provided to to the commission members uh Yeah, this is the inventory, and then we also um we identified them to uh genus and species, and um well, it diameter at breast height, well, it would be

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actually the diameter of the stump. Um and then based on that, we developed the planting plan based on this inventory. And due to site constraints, uh special condition 61 allowed us

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to, uh, do the plantings in Southborough. Um, as you recall, the MBTA does not own any land, um, in Hopkinton. So, if you want to go to the planting

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plan, So, we developed this plan in close coordinate, uh, coordination with Melissa over at the Southborough Conservation Commission. And, um, due to site constraints here, too, Melissa, we

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could not fit all the 49 trees in the area of So, we were basically, you know, planting in the area that was previously disturbed as part of the, um, sediment sampling. So, this was a staging area for the sediment sampling.

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So, Melissa suggested that we substitute some of the trees for shrubs. So, the planting plan that we came up with has, um, 30 trees and 19 shrubs. It's all native species. Um, and then I want to zoom in on the

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species on the list of, uh, just to give the commission an idea. So, we're planting, these are the species. American elm, sycamore, um, I used to call it sweet birch, red oak,

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cherry, tupelo. I mean, this is a fairly dry area, so that's why some of the species might appear upland to you guys. So, this is within the riverfront, 100-ft uh, riverfront area. And then we have the list of shrubs

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right there. And so, what we're looking for is the commission's approval of this planting plan under the existing order of condition 188-1816 as the, uh, file number. Thank you.

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Great. Thank you. Was that did anybody have anything else to present? Good. No, that's everything. >> Actually [clears throat] >> Go ahead. >> If I just may add one thing that the findings of the testing program um do

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not trigger any reporting conditions under the mass uh contingency plan MCP. So, just >> Oh, that's great. >> Yeah, wanted to add that. Thank you. >> Thanks. Okay. Um I do remember I remember going

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through this process um a couple years ago, a few years ago now um in the discussion. So, you worked with the Conservation Commission over in Southborough and they I guess blessed this planting plan there.

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>> Well, so so the agent Melissa has blessed it, but we have not actually gotten an official approval from the Conservation Commission members. So, we are going through that process as we speak. And most likely it will just be

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again um an administrative change to the existing order of conditions that we filed with them. >> Okay. >> But for the same program. >> Okay. Got you. Um all right. I think

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Did Excuse [clears throat] me. Um Joe or Judy, did you take a look at this planting plan and did you have any comments? >> Yeah, through the chair. Um I took a quick look to confirm that the quantity for combined trees and

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shrubs adds up to 49, which was the amount they reported as cut. Um so, that matches the one-to-one required ratio. And I did check the species to make sure they're all native to Middlesex County. So, that checked out. Um my only flag

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and maybe Joe can speak to this was they are proposing one cultivar species for American elm. Um seemed like they had a pretty good justification, but if Joe has any thoughts on on that one cultivar being included, I think that would be helpful. Um I didn't send it to Joe for a full

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review, but if the commission would like that, I think um that's up for discussion for you all. >> Okay. I guess before I I turn to Joe, Maggie, did you have a reasoning for that particular selection of tree? >> I think it's because it's more resistant

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to to uh the Dutch elm disease. That's why we >> Okay. >> we recommend that. But, you know, again, we could switch it out if the commission prefers. >> Okay. Um Joe? >> Uh yeah, I I haven't looked at this, but

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just looking at the planting plan now, uh that was the one thing that stood out was the cultivar, but uh that particular cultivar uh has been found to have moderate resistance to uh Dutch elm disease, which I had assumed was probably why they were proposing that. Um

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So, in this case, I don't uh really have an issue uh with that particular cultivar. >> Okay. Thank you. Um I also don't have any issues with subbing out the 19 shrubs for 30 trees given the um

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area limitations. I think it's obvious from looking at the plan that the existing area that we're removing trees from looks a lot larger than where we're planting trees. So, um that makes sense in my mind, but I'll open it up to the commission to see if anyone has any questions or comments.

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>> Melissa, I have a question that might be academic. >> Yeah, go ahead, Dad. >> When we see planting plans, uh we don't normally see the size indicated by gallons. Um we hear DBH or height of sapling.

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Um is there an equivalent that I can understand what a 10-gallon size tree is if we were to look at its height or uh diameter of its at planting time? >> They're they're pretty small.

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I I would say the the 10-gallon might be 12 to 18 in maybe or 2 to 3 ft. Maybe Joe can in height. >> Also commonly in height. >> Same. And then the 5-gallon

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>> diameter are 3 ft in height. >> going to say yeah, no, I figured that wasn't it, but yeah. So the 5-gallon would again be a a fairly small 12 in height. >> Yeah, with with the for the chair? >> Yes, Joe.

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>> Um uh for the shrubs, I mean, often we plant the shrubs in in 1-gallon containerized um and those can be uh generally up about 3 ft in height, 2 to 3 ft in height. Uh for the trees, I would imagine a

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10-gallon plus is going to be uh quite a bit more than that. Um maybe approaching an inch diameter um somewhere in that range. >> So I think Ted um that's a good question.

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10 to 25 gallons is a big range in size, I feel like. Would you agree with that, Joe? >> Uh yeah. >> [clears throat] >> Um so most likely what's going to get planted, I would assume, is a 10

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given a choice here by a contractor. Um so it is a good question, Ted. Are we okay with that size? So you think uh you think that's an might equate to an inch or so tree, Joe?

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That's a I'm putting you on the spot here, I know. >> Through the chair, I Googled, so I don't know how accurate this is. Um but here's a man standing next to different-sized sapling buckets, if this is helpful

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visual. >> Oh, wow. All right. >> So, 10 to 25 would be roughly I mean, definitely bigger than a person. >> it's a pretty good size container. Okay, well >> I'm I'm just doing

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>> Look at that 15-gallon. If If they Even if they were 10-gallon, it's going to be the height of a Well, I guess that essentially the height of a person. Um All right, maybe I guess I'm okay with that. I was worried they were a little small,

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smaller than what we normally ask for. >> I do see a hand up, Jeremy. >> Yeah, if we can, you know, when we go and if the if the commission does approve us, we can always circle back once we identify a nursery and um send pictures

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if that would help prior to the plantings. I think our goal is to plant this fall. Um I'm speaking otherwise, so uh CDM Smith let me know, but um we can always circle back and do like, "FYI, here's what we Here's the exact purchase. Here are the exact sizes." If that um if that

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would make if the commission um would be okay with that. >> That's Would you be up for looking at that, Judy? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. How does that feel, Ted? >> [laughter] >> That feels good. I'm fine with that.

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>> Okay. Great. Then are there any questions from the audience or comments. >> Through the chair. >> Yes, Ed. >> This is [clears throat] Ed. I just have a question for myself edification if it's appropriate to ask. I'm curious

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what happens to the remnants of the trunk and roots etc. Um when the tree has been cut down, are they left in the dam? >> I think that's a CDM question. Mike, maybe? >> Sorry.

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>> Yeah, I believe I believe Maggie, I I believe um when you cut out the they they've those were left those were left but we didn't remove the stumps. Correct? >> I know we did not remove the the stumps. No. So, they're they're left.

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>> And and so their deterioration doesn't compromise the dam later. >> Maybe Ahmad can can you help with this? >> Sure. Actually, [clears throat] excuse me, removal might actually compromise the the dam

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So, I would say, yeah, leaving them in place would be the least impact to the dam safety. >> Thank you. All right, can I get a motion to go ahead and approve this planting plan understanding that the

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applicant and BCA will come back and provide Judy with some more detail on exactly what trees are going to be purchased and planted before they do so. >> I'm happy to make that motion. >> And with signatures by Judy and Anna, just amend. [clears throat]

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>> I'm happy to amend that motion. >> Thanks, Ted. >> You're welcome. I'll second the motion as amended. >> All right, all in favor. Jim? >> I. >> Ed? >> I. >> Ted >> Ted is an I.

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>> And I'm also an I. So you are all set. Thank you. >> Great. Thank you everybody. >> very much. >> Thank you very much guys. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Bye. >> All right. Next step, I'm going to go to

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194 196 South Street request for certificate of compliance. Um And Judy, I'll let you start off on on your recommendation here. >> Sure, through the chair. Um so this was an order of conditions

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issued to a commercial building at 194 19 196 South Street for a driveway that comes up here off of South Street, stormwater utilities, and site grading associated with the construction of a commercial building.

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Um this was issued in May 2015. The applicant originally applied for a COC back in 2024 um and submitted a list of deviations from the approved plan with their initial application. Um so that's available in the public folder.

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Uh Joe's comments at the time included uh I items to be added to the as-built plan uh including a storm scepter unit and a drainage connection to another unit. Uh erosion controls had been remaining on site. The driveway was built within the 50-ft

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no disturb zone. Um it was not approved to be within that 50-ft. Um there was an outlet pipe that Joe noted lacked riprap or erosion control um and an approved slope next to the building here

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um was constructed as a level space that had been used as storage. And they were missing one jurisdictional arborvitae tree that doesn't sound like it was a conservation requirement, but technically it did fall within a buffer zone.

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Uh so we've since confirmed that the site continues to be stable. Um all of the erosion controls at this point have been removed. I think I said in the detailed agenda most of them had been. Um since that was written we've confirmed they've all been removed. The PIB has been fully installed per the

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approved plan. All of the signs wrapping around the building and down the driveway are in place on site. Um and additionally the applicant is up to date on submitting their annual stormwater reports. And we did get in updated as-built um adding those items

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that Joe had noted. So we have the additional storm sector unit and the connection to the rest of the drainage system. Um so I think it's in pretty good shape for a COC. I guess barring the items flagged for discussion for the commission um including the location of

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that driveway, uh whether you want any kind of erosion control at that outlet pipe. Um it looked pretty stable, but um definitely up for discussion. And then in terms of this gravel area, um when Joe was out there in 2024, it had been used as storage. Um they've

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since removed all of the stored materials. There's still some gravel there, but a lot of it's starting to revegetate. So it it looks a lot more naturalized now. So I'll pass it back to you, Melissa. >> Okay. Thanks, Judy. And that gravel area looks like it's

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outside of Is it outside of the PIB? I'm trying to locate the PIB dots. Yeah. >> It's outside of the PIB, but within the 100 ft. Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. So they didn't go past the PIB signs. Gotcha.

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Um and do we have any idea like how far off were they in the driveway? How much closer and was there a reason for that? I don't know if anyone's on the line.

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>> Ooh, the Joe's note said approximately 16 ft closer to the wetland. And we did meet with the applicant. They had an explanation for why it was positioned the way it was. Um and I thought we had someone on the line for this, but it doesn't look like we

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do. I think it was just the way that the turning radius worked from South Street that they kind of had to do that. >> Okay. >> But if the commission wants clarification prior to a vote, I'm happy to reach out. >> Okay. >> And Sorry, Judy. We can wait for the

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appropriate time, but we do have people here representing the property. >> Yeah, if you want to go ahead and introduce yourself and Good. >> So, maybe Dave can I turn it over to you? This is Chad Reynolds on behalf of the applicant, but uh maybe Dave can walk us through

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uh his as-built plan and then we can address any comments on the construction of the driveway. >> Sure. >> Dave? >> Yep, I'm here. Yep. >> Okay. >> Um so there was a slight alteration um

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in the front section of the um driveway. Um it seemed to be twisted um slightly left as you look at it from from South Street. Um

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I'm not sure why. Uh there was an existing curb cut uh there originally. Uh I could guess that um they utilized the existing curb cut uh and then expanded on that.

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Uh the front section about 50 ft in uh on the left-hand side is about 13 ft different. And then it goes to eight and then it's one. So, um Greg, I'm not sure if this if there's another reason why that got

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twisted. Was the Did you utilize the existing curb cut from before? >> Yeah, that was the road follows the existing road that was already there when we purchased the property. So, there wasn't there wasn't a [clears throat] change in the road

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um because the proposed catch basin is still in the same location that was on the approved plan. So, I don't know why for some reason it had a little jog to the right before going up. I'm not quite sure what get into that, but um the road it's it's followed the exact road that

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was already there. And the curb cut along South Street. >> Okay. Okay. Um Joe or someone, did you want to expand on anything that was brought up already?

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Or otherwise that wasn't brought up that was in your letter? >> Uh no, I'm I'm just kind of reviewing my letter. I think the the uh things that stood out have already been addressed and my my biggest remaining question was on the location of the

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driveway. Uh so, I think I don't have anything to add at this point. >> Okay. I think in regards to outlet pipe if it's if it looks stable, which you you all say it does, um and it's been around there a while, I I'm comfortable without

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installing any additional riprap. It doesn't seem necessary. Um and the tree if that was a planning board requirement, I don't see necessarily a reason to to require that on our part.

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Um but I'll open it up to the commission and see if anyone else has thoughts. If not, I will open it to the public. Okay. Um in that case, can I get a motion to approve

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um approve a COC for this project with signatures by Judy and Anna, Judy or Anna. >> I'll make that motion. >> Stan, second? >> Second. >> All right. All in [clears throat] favor, Jim?

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>> I. >> Ed? >> I. >> Ted? >> Ted is an I. >> And I am also an I. All right. You are all set. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Appreciate it. >> All right, it is 7:30, but the only

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thing on our continued hearings here are uh regulations, so I'm going to keep working through work session items for um those who are visitors here on the call. Um that takes us to Toll Brothers lot

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222 and 26. Um Matt, I'm guessing that's you. >> Yes, absolutely. And thank you for continuing to work on that list there. >> Yep. >> Um start with lot two. Um

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uh Matt Ashley with Bowler here on behalf of Toll Brothers to hopefully get um Um, more certificates of compliances here. Uh, starting with lot two, if the commission remembers, um, I think we were back here a couple

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months ago. Um, and the commission wanted to see some more growth, um, out behind the property. And then there was also one PIB marker, um, right on the line of lot one, which

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is the lot to the plan right that you see on the plan, um, here. And, um, I have photos. I don't know if Judy or anyone else has been out there that want to comment on it, but out behind at the rear of the property, um, continued no mowing has happened back

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there all behind the PIB markers. Um, except for uh, this little corner here. Um, which um, personally, I'm not out there when they're mowing. I think, uh, happens when the landscaper comes

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through and does lot one, which continues to be, uh, mowed behind the PIBs throughout the entire property. Um, the other thing I was hoping for the commission to consider is that PIB

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marker in particular is for the 100 foot offset across the driveway of lot one onto the other side. Um, so it is there and I I think it should still be obeyed. Um, however, uh, it's not really nothing behind it that

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it's protecting from the mowing. There is wetland further down, um, planned south there, but it's probably another good, I don't know, 50 to 75 feet, yeah, to the 100 foot wetland buffer. Um, so happy to talk about that one more, but that's my spiel on this one.

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>> Melissa, you're muted. >> Oh, there we go. Um, okay. I was just saying I think I agree with you, Matt, that that sticks out and it's just should be moved in line with the other ones.

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Um Does anyone else have thoughts on that? On the commission? >> Melissa, I don't know if I have thoughts on that specifically. I'm wondering if I drive through the neighborhood quite a

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bit and from the plan in front of me, I can't quite picture which property this one is. Um, is there a plan available, Judy or Anna, that kind of shows the neighborhood so I can have it when I went to Google Maps it just shows woods before all of it was cleared.

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>> If you go to the top left of the plan, it kind of has like a overview of the whole development. Would that help you, Ted? >> It might. >> It's the first second one on the left as you're coming down Chamberlain. >> is this? The one with a shared driveway

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but this driveway would go to the right. >> Correct. >> Okay. And this is one the last time I looked, it looked like their backyard is still being mowed way past the PIB's. And that was a couple weeks ago,

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probably three four weeks ago I drove through. >> Uh >> Am I wrong with that? >> Yeah, through that share. >> Go ahead, Judy. >> Trying to find the exact date we were out here, but last time me and Anna had checked it was looking really good past

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Um, this picture is old. This is from November. I don't think I snapped a new picture. Um, but past these three PIB's here, it was looking like tall grass and then it was just this one that was getting mowed, I guess, behind in this direction. Um, but it did look okay to

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me. Um, but you know, we might have come by on different days, Ted. >> Yeah, and I don't remember exactly. I drive through there with regularity, but as you know, I've been out of town for a few weeks, too. Um >> Through the chair.

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>> Yes, Anna. >> So, Ted, the one going the next property down on Chamberlain is still mowing, and that one's really visible from the street. So, that may be the one that you might >> getting the two confused. Trying to figure out which one. >> Yeah, you can't really see this one. Oh.

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>> [laughter] >> Sorry. That's the only one I >> And is that where the PIB should be? >> Yeah, that's [laughter] where Judy and I were saying like that's where I was like just I'll stand here. So, yeah, it it does look a lot taller

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in front of the other PIBs. It's just this one. >> Okay. Okay. Um I I have a another question. I was looking at all of these Toll Brothers properties in prep for the meeting, and it seemed like but maybe I missed it

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that Joe's letter is a year old, and that the photos were a year old. Was there more up-to-date information that I didn't see? >> Through the chair, um >> Yes, Judy. >> Not from Lucas. So, Joe's comments and his pictures would have been the most

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recent for this site. Um but after we get the initial reviewed in general, Anna and I will, you know, check on the outstanding items and make sure um everything's being addressed. But if you'd like us to prepare like more of a an organized memo and and a folder of

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pictures, I'm happy to do that, too. >> I think since the letter a year ago, the only thing that was outstanding was the mowing behind the PIB, right? >> Yeah, we got an updated as-built plan with the tree line. Um Joe had said

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there was a broken PIB that has since been replaced, and erosion controls have been removed. >> Okay. I get I mean, just generally, I get very, very nervous about these properties. We've had struggles with

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them since before people moved in, with the way they were built being not done to the specs that we asked for. Uh a property that I think we gave a COC to recently has now begun mowing past the PIB again. Um

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so I I just I struggle even with this one odd PIB, I struggle with what message we send. And I struggle with people stopping the mowing long enough to get their COC, and then reclaiming that yard if that is a potential. So,

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I don't know what that means for my vote, but that's just where my my head space is right now. >> Right. Through the chair. Yes, G. Uh if it makes you feel any better, Ted, I did kind of track down that that one situation you're talking about, and it sounded like the HOA's landscaper is

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also involved in mowing some of these areas. So, I did walk all of Chamberlain with him the other day, and very clearly pointed out where to mow and where to not mow um within at least the common areas that had PIPs near them. So, it sounded like in that specific

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instance, there was a culvert nearby that they are really supposed to be maintaining around, and just went a little wide. Um so, it doesn't sound like that one was the homeowner, but if we start to see that happening more and more now that everybody is aware, the HOA's landscaper and the residents, um

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then the commission is fully within their rights to issue violations, and I'm happy to facilitate that. >> Okay. I hope you didn't take that a critique as a critique of you. >> Me? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Oh, no, not at all. >> Okay, good, good, good.

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>> I [laughter] didn't consider that. >> Okay, good. >> And this discussion is why I maintain that we need to have electrified barbed wire along the PIB line. >> That would probably do it, Ed, but um it might cause us other problems, too. Um >> I was joking though. When it does come

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to newer developments, I am moving very much towards at minimum a split rail fence, not these posts anymore. We can't do anything about that now with these plans, nor does that affect the CRC application, I know, but anyway. >> Yeah, I know. I completely agree with

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you there, Ted. If I could go back in time, I would require fence here, for sure. >> Yeah, I think that's a just a point. >> Yeah. Um Yeah, but I I think for where we're at now, in my opinion, I think I think it does

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make sense to move this particular PIB so that we can um hopefully facilitate compliance cuz it does stick out a lot and it just it's it's an that's an odd odd one right there. Um

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I think for a landscaper or homeowner, maybe to remember um what to do there without a fence line. Um So, I'd I'd be in favor of moving the PIB in the field and on the plan.

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I think we need to do both to be consistent. Um and if based on Judy and Anna's observations, they're not currently mowing, then you know, I think they're fulfilling

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the requirements at this point in time. Um so, I would be in favor of going ahead and issuing the certificate of compliance, um just with a warning that I I do agree, Judy, that if

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we're running into this again or going forward then we start ticketing um cuz I think by issuing the COC and having this conversation or kind of put up put everyone on notice, put this homeowner on notice. Um

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maybe that's something we can notify them of when we provide the COC. But if you know, if there is mowing beyond that PAB, then they're subject to fines at, you know, $300

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a day per occurrence. >> Yeah, through the chair um >> Yes. >> We do issue them to Toll Brothers directly, but I'm happy to um either request through them that that communication be passed along or reach out um directly to the homeowners, but I don't think in most cases they actually see

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the COC document itself, um but that's a good question. I mean, a good point. They should be reviewing it and seeing all of the other ongoing conditions in addition to mowing that they're going to have to comply with. >> Can they get tied to their deed, though? >> It does, but I don't I don't know. I

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don't I don't look at my deed very often, so I don't know how often the average person is looking that up. >> Matt, could Ashley um can we request that you provide a copy of it to the homeowner? >> Yeah, that's not a problem. >> Not just, you know, on any going forward

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and maybe in the past, too. >> Yeah, and I mean, Toll's wanted them to stop mowing as as much as the commission as well, so >> Okay. >> We're happy to provide that again to them. >> Okay. So, maybe Judy, we can get if you could draft up a letter just kind of like a cover letter to go with it to

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explain in plain English, you know, to um homeowners what it means what the COC means. They still need to comply with it. There's still things they need to follow. >> Yep, I'm happy to do that.

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>> Okay. Anything any other questions, comments? Okay, I'm going to ask for a motion to approve to issue the COC with signatures by Judy or Anna. >> Uh so moved. >> Second.

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>> I'll second. >> All in favor? Jim? >> I. >> Ted? >> Uh with the letter accompanying, I. >> Ed? >> I. >> And I am also an I.

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>> [clears throat] >> Okay. So next up we have lot 22, 29 Chamberlain or 29 Wayland. >> Uh Matt Ashley again with Bowler here on behalf of Toll Brothers. Um so this one is uh lot 29.

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Um uh I think Judy, if you have the screen, go into the top left just so you can get your bearings. It's the third one uh on the left as you're driving down um Wayland Road. So it's just about midway through the property just so everyone can kind of get their bearings.

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Um so this one here um uh we've been a little patient on to bring it in front of the commission. And really um came down to mowing. Um and in general,

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the block has become a lot better um um with everything behind the property. Um basically those PIB's are right at the tree line. The tree line's being respected. It is in the l- top left corner, that

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PIB right on the property line, there is just a little bit of mowing happening going on behind there. Ironically, I think it might be coming from the lot next door. Doesn't, I believe, have a um

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notice of intent or conditions on it. And it might just be that landscaper kind of circling around that corner over there. Otherwise, in general, this is been maintained and the PIBs are right on the tree line there. But happy to

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have some current photos, too. Judy or Vanna, you don't have them. I'm happy to share. >> Yeah, I think a couple pictures would be great. >> There you go. >> Yep, exactly. >> Yeah, most of them look like this one here

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with the ferns and the forest line. And then I think it's more like two PIBs are a little bit wonky with mowing going on behind them. So this guy here and this guy here

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equate to these two PIBs on the plan. So you can see they kind of come up compared to the ones that are looking good here. >> May I ask a question before we go further? >> Yeah, go ahead, Ted.

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>> Does that mean, based on the on the photographs, does that mean that tree line drawing around those PIBs is not quite accurate? >> Through the chair, it might be canopy overhang um type of um depiction on there.

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>> Can you go back to the plan view again, Judy? >> Mhm. So, see how Ted, I'm looking at the um existing erosion control limit of work. >> Yep. >> And see how that's behind the PIB? I

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think that's what was maintained cuz they probably went in and did grading right there. >> Yep. >> Even though the tree hangs over, they probably graded up to that line and then they probably went and seeded right up to the erosion controls.

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>> I think you're right. I think it's another problem we see again and again. >> Yep. So, but the house next door didn't need a notice of intent? >> No, we do not have a filing for the house next door.

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>> All right, so they must have been just I guess they stayed right out of the 100-ft >> Yeah. >> So, the wetland ends. It's a little awkward. >> Melissa. >> Yes, Ted. >> Uh I don't think you're asking for comments yet, but I'm going to offer one

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if you'll let me. Uh I am not inclined to issue this COC. That's exactly the kind of thing I'm really tired of seeing and it sounds like Matt is as well. Um but I have a question.

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Is it possible, are we allowed to offer a COC contingent on them planting in that area, or do we have to wait for them to stop mowing and the mowing to grow up? Can we ask for plantings at this point, or does that fall outside of what we're allowed to do?

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>> I think, well, here's my opinion and Judy, you can tell me if we're not allowed to or I'm off course. Um I don't know that we can require them to do plantings, but I think we can we can certainly not issue the COC. I don't think we're under any pressure or timeline or anything like that here.

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And I think we can recommend that in order for us to feel comfortable with issuing a COC sooner rather than later. Um, we'd be amenable to them removing the lawn and planting some trees and

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shrubs. And that would take care of it. And be better environmentally, but >> Or put up that split rail fence. >> Yeah. >> If I saw some plantings, I mean, just seeing people not mow for a couple months doesn't give me a lot of

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confidence. If there are actual saplings put in there, pretty soon it gets hard to mow around the saplings, and it's going to become what we I think envisioned it to be, so. >> Yeah, no, I think you're right, then. I don't think we're I don't think they

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will be able to come back with that showing us something that's not mowed unless they plant something there. Not because we're requiring it, but because I think it's impossible for a landscaper to, like you said, to follow those

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lines. >> Good sharing. >> Yes, Ed. >> What is it, Ed? >> Uh I don't remember how this came to be, but why is the PIB behind [clears throat] the 100-ft buffer?

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And not on >> Not on the 100-ft? >> Yeah. >> I think it's probably cuz they would like some lawn area, and we, you know, compromised. >> I If If I may, Melissa, I remember all

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of that very well. We kind of And I And I was one of the louder voices pushing against, but then accepted roughly 40 ft of lawn, even if that went inside the 100-ft buffer. And the reason I remember that really well is once we

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started talking about Fitchburg and that development over there, there was kind of this assumption that we allow 40 ft of backyard and I I pushed back saying, "We did not mean to establish precedent with the Chamberlain Wayland development." But that's where it came from. It's us

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finding a compromise to allow some backyard. And that seemed to be the place that left with the least amount of fighting. >> Yep. Yeah, I think you're right. Um >> But that's all the more reason I want to

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be I am I I'm not telling anyone else what they should do, but that's all the more reason I really want to hold to these PIVs. Is we agreed to it and we agreed to it after a lot of discussion. And if the the

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I don't know. The the the What do you call it? The home union. What's the term I'm missing? >> Homeowners association. >> Yes, the homeowners association. Whether it's their hired landscaper or the individual property owners, I don't really care who is violating the

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agreements we made. Um I'm going to be a stickler with those agreements because we did give a lot of lawn within jurisdictional areas. And I'm not interested in giving any That's my own take. I'm not speaking for everyone else.

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>> Yep. Thanks, Ted. >> Ted, you're speaking for me. >> Yeah. So with that being said, >> [clears throat] >> go ahead, Jim. >> I'll share I'll share I'll share your view, too. >> [gasps and sighs] >> So with that being said, I think we

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either uh so we're requesting a certificate of compliance and I think um we're leaning towards no is what it's sounding like from the commission. So, we can vote and deny it and it could come back or can

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continue it out. [clears throat] Judy, do you have a suggestion? >> Yeah, you don't need to take a vote if it sounds like the consensus is no. Um it would just go back in the the waiting list with the other Chamberlain Wayland COCs and

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we can see how things evolve throughout the rest of the summer. >> Does that make sense to you, Matt, or do you want to know so you can go and tell someone you said no? >> Uh yeah, through the chair. Um I think I I know where the the problem is on

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this one here and just to reiterate you know, it's either more growth. In a perfect world, we'd get it ripped out and put some plantings in there and everyone would be happy with that as well. I'll run the electric barbed wire, um but I don't think that'll be a I think that'll be a no as well, but

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I think I understand the uh where we stand on this one and I'll I'll go back to the homeowners again. >> Okay, sounds good. All right, see what we got at 28 Wayland. >> Did you say 28, Melissa? Sorry, 26? >> It's uh lot

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>> Uh lot 26. >> Oh, sorry. >> 20 Wayland, yeah. Yeah. >> Sorry, you were right. Um Um Matt Ashley again with Don on behalf of Toll Brothers uh here for um 28 Wayland, lot 26. And uh this one again uh we've been

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patiently waiting uh until everything's kind of grown in. It's not as sunny uh back here on this lot here. Um but um this one in general uh looked uh really great to me the last time I walked it. Um happy to share photos, but

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essentially I I saw everything within the PIB line not being mowed. Um even that that kind of one that sticks out on the peninsula there. The tree line is a little bit behind it, but I don't know, Judy or Anna, if you have pictures, I'm happy to share, but

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everything kind of was behind those PIBs or even in front of it as well. >> I'm looking for my pictures. I cannot find them, but I can confirm when we were out there a few weeks ago, there was no mowing occurring behind the PIB here.

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Okay. Great. All right. Does anyone have any questions or comments on lot 26? >> Melissa. >> Yes, Ted. >> I guess my only comment is the same letter we talked about. I think that that's a as long as we're doing that for

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every one of these past, present, and future, I think that's a good idea. >> Yeah, I agree, Ted. >> Good job. >> Yes, Joe. >> Yeah, I was looking at my review. I had noted that there was some dumping of yard waste within the buffer zone and

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adjacent to one of the PIBs. I was wondering if that um had been cleaned up. >> Yeah, through the chair, um we did look for that and did not see it when we were out there, so it either got cleaned up or hasn't been added to at the very

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least because it was not apparent from our most recent site visit. >> Be good another little bullet in the letter, Judy. >> Mhm. >> [laughter] >> We can cover yard waste there, too. Um >> [clears throat] >> okay.

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Then can I get a motion to issue this COC with signatures by Judy or Anna? >> So moved. >> A second. >> Is that all second? >> All right, all in favor, Jim.

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>> Um, I. >> Ed. >> I. >> Ted. >> Ted is an I. >> And I am also an I. >> Awesome. >> All right. >> Thank you, everyone, and I'm sure I'll see you again in the future. >> Okay. Thanks, Matt.

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>> Thanks, everyone. >> All right. So, that was all of our work session items as far as applicants go. Um, let's jump up to continued hearings. So, we have the wetland protection regulations here, and I'm a little

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hesitant to get into too much discussion with our um, slim attendance tonight. Uh, cuz the first hearing that we had, we had both Peggy and Walter here. Um,

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and last, but I will bring it up if anyone wants to talk about anything. If you've had a chance or haven't, you can go ahead and express comments, I guess, um, or thoughts, but I'm, like I said, I'm a little hesitant to get into it without,

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you know, a little more of a commission presence here. >> So, Melissa, I jotted down some thoughts, but I didn't thoroughly enough watch the last video to see what you discussed last time, and without Peggy, Walter, or Matt here, I'll just bite my tongue. >> Okay.

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Ted, if you want to share those in an email, you could send it to Judy, too, and then we can get a chance to kind of chew on them before the next meeting. >> Okay. That'll be good. >> Hopefully have better attendance and we can like, you know, think about them as we >> And I I I mentioned to Judy before you got in the meeting, I tried to add

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comments to the document, but whatever I clicked wasn't the right click to let me do that. So, I can try to do that again as well. >> Okay. Okay. And Ted, if there's another format that would be better for you, um I think I had emailed the Word Docs

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directly to commission members, and then I had posted PDFs in the public folder just to keep the editable versions um just with commission members. So, if you'd prefer to add comments in the Word Docs and send them to me, um we can compile it and I

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can put up a new version. >> something out. I I didn't spend too much time trying to figure it out tonight because I wanted to keep reading and just jotting down notes was quicker for tonight. Um but I'll poke around and I'll reach out if I'm completely lost. >> Okay. >> Thanks. I do have I think one question

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though from the comments that I think we can um as I was looking through the comments on the document, I I know that JO is Joe Worzel, and I know that MR is Melissa and JD. There was a a comment from a CL. Didn't know who CL was. I think it was

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in green. >> That's Chris Wicken. >> Oh, okay. That's Joe's boss chiming in on one of them. Okay. I was just curious who that was. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. It took me a minute to add, too, when I

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looked at it. >> Yeah. I went back to our conservation commission roster. I said, "Where in the hell do you think [laughter] anyone has those initials?" Okay. >> Yeah, you know, Chris wanted to take a look at it also, uh seeing that he's uh been associated with reviewing projects

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with the commission for a long time. >> Well, thank Chris for that. >> Okay. >> To the chair. >> Yes, Judy. >> I had kind of a related comment. So, I've been putting the checklists with the changes I'm proposing

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in with the regs update discussions. Um I don't know that anybody has any burning opinions on the checklists. Um they're more just to make it a little easier on us and on Joe to get applications in better shape when they come in. Um

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so, I don't know if you wanted to approve them on the same timeline as the regs, which might be a bit longer, um or if folks had any opinions on maybe getting the application checklists approved so we can at least put those up on the website in the meantime. Um but definitely no pressure if if

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y'all haven't had a chance to look at them and >> Okay. >> They were wishing >> Yeah, I would agree when I looked at the checklist, I was more It's like thinking that this is a tool for you and Anna and Joe to use and you know better than I do what needs to be

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on that checklist. Um but I you know, I did look at it and um so, I would be fine doing that, but I'll ask Ted and Jim and Ed if they wanted a chance to take a look at them. >> I did not look at them, but I don't want to be the reason to slow them down. Similarly, when I was looking at the

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ones in front of us, when it came to the fees, I thought, I have no idea. I'm glossed over those. I think I would do the same with the checklist and trust that you guys know what you need much more than I do. >> Yep. Okay. Um does anyone want to make a motion to

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approve the checklists for a >> I'm happy to make that motion, too. I'll keep the streak alive. >> Okay. >> I'll second. I'll second. >> All right. All in favor? Jim? >> I. >> Ed? >> I. >> Ted?

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>> Ted is an I. >> And I am also an I. >> Thank you. >> All right. Then we will go ahead and continue this out to Do you think the next hearing is long enough, Judy,

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since we don't have other members here? >> It's a good question. Um it is a bit of a jump to the next meeting, at least. Um so it's a 3-week jump. Um instead of our Actually, it might be a 4-week jump. Um so a bit more of a jump than our usual

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intervals. So it might be okay, August 11th, to give folks a couple weeks to look at them. >> Um I'm also just looking at my calendar and realizing I need to let you know that I'm going to be on vacation that week. >> Oh, okay. So maybe not then.

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>> [laughter] >> Um Yeah. We can continue it to that one if you want and then continue it again if folks want to, but I definitely will not be here. >> My thought is I would really like the

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chair here if we're going to discuss the regs. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay, let's continue out to August 25th. Can I get a motion to that effect? >> I'll make that motion. >> And is that I'll second.

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>> [clears throat] >> All in favor? Ted? >> Ted is an I. >> Ed? >> I. >> Jim? >> I. >> And I am also an I. In the meantime, though, I think Judy,

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you would welcome comments sent to you by email, right, from anybody. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, and if it would be helpful, um, you know, we just kind of keep throwing the doc at you guys, but if there's anything I can do to better present, you

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know, the big discussion items, um, I'm happy to kind of formulate a discussion a little differently. So, maybe we can workshop some better ideas to present the the track changes cuz a lot of it is administrative, so I know you're sifting through a lot of just red text. Um, so I

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can maybe just try to pull out like the big discussion items and we can focus on those, too. >> Yeah, that might be that might be helpful. >> Yeah, that might be helpful, but at the same time it was pretty easy to see, "Oh, this is just a font change. This is a font change, too." and skim those. It

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it didn't take long to kind of get the flow of which comments. I think highlighting stuff in yellow was helpful. As like, "This is definitely a thing to discuss." Although, when it again, when it came to the fees, for me I was like, "No, I don't know I don't know what these fees are." Um, but I think that by itself does a

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lot with that you having to create a separate document. >> Yeah, I can do that. >> Okay. Thanks. All right, with that being said, are there any conservation minute items you wanted to go over, Judy? I don't

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think I have anything in particular tonight. >> I don't think I do, either. Um, but I guess we're a little bit early out, but just to get it on folks' radar, I did sign us up for family day again. Um, I think that's in September. So,

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if folks have new ideas for activities, I'll try to improve on what we did last year. Um, but I'll send out the date when that gets a little closer, but that is coming up in the fall. >> Okay. I'll say I think just from being there last year, the chia seeds were a hit.

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You just need to make sure we have enough paper towels. >> Yeah, that was >> Maybe some like rinse water. Um and then the matching the leaves to the trees. That seemed to be a hit as well.

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>> Through the chair, how much it costs? I I've been to weddings where the guests get a little teeny tiny tree yay big. What do those things cost? >> Good question. >> Weddings cost a lot of money.

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>> No, I know they do and maybe those saplings are part of the cost, but maybe I don't >> I could I I can attest to the cost of a wedding. >> [laughter] >> That's not the question I'm asking. >> You're going to have trees at the wedding though, Jim.

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To give away. >> Well, I never thought of that, but I seriously doubt it. I didn't realize you had to give people gifts that you're already paying $400 a piece to be there. >> [laughter] >> But actually, I won't be able to attend Sam's wedding day cuz that's the day of my daughter's wedding.

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>> Oh, okay. >> Unfortunately, I I got to tell you, forgive me, but I'd rather be a family day. >> Oh, that's fun. >> Anyway, I don't know. I can look into that just as easily. It seemed to be a nice giveaway. >> We do give out um >> If they were affordable and within our budget.

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>> We have like native grass seed packets that we've been giving out and then um I think Ed and Jim had gotten some wildflower mix seeds that we had added. So, we have seeds, but um It's a good idea even like maybe a little planting demo or something like that.

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>> They do like the Arbor like I don't know if they still do it, but you used to be able to buy these little seedlings at for Arbor Day. But they're only 6 in tall or something like that. Um I don't think they would be that much.

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But if people are going to plant them or not, That's the question. >> Through the chair, this is Ed. >> Yes, Ed. >> As the chair of another commission, the Open Space Preservation Commission, we sort of unofficially had a discussion

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about partnering with the Conservation Commission. Is that something that >> For a tent, you mean? For like a space? >> Yeah. >> At the family day? >> Yeah, and doing something that's, you know, different but similar cuz we are

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kind of similar. >> Yeah. I'd be I'd be open to that. That makes sense to me. >> Makes sense to me. >> I think a lot of people probably kind of see us in the same lens and they're coming to the tent and

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yeah. >> Open space can get the trees. Uh 10 gallons, 10 You get 100 10 gallon trees. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Okay. Keep thinking, Judy.

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>> Oh, and the other thing is invasive. Do I I wasn't there last year. Do we have still a um a sign board or something with invasive species on it so people can identify what stuff is or I hate to say samples, but

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we should educate people about that. I think that they choose >> You had a board, Judy, with You had something, didn't you? It was like turtles and lizards and young things. >> I had like uh amphibians, like animals

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of northeastern wetlands, um but nothing on invasives. I think that's That's a good idea though. We could go around and cut little bits to show. Maybe not have people touch them in case they're sensitive, but >> So, that was part of what

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we at Open Space had thought about was invasives, of which I I stumbled across even more today. It's very very very depressing. >> Goat? Can we get Hello. To the family day.

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>> Say that again. >> A goat. Can we get a goat to go? >> A goat? >> [laughter] >> You don't even know what a goat is. We need to sample not weed and other things that we bring. So, people can get goats.

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>> We get a pet goat that we can rent out from the commission. >> a goat per person? >> [laughter] >> Yeah, right. Sorry, wrong time of year, I think. >> Maybe Matt Varile will lend us a an alpaca. Do they >> Yeah, maybe. >> [laughter]

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>> Yeah, do they eat weed? Do they eat those things? >> I don't I don't know. They're probably a little more choosy, but I don't know. >> I'm thinking. >> [laughter] >> I think so. Yeah, I think so. >> Okay. Anybody have anything else? >> so 5-gallon goats are out.

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>> [laughter] >> Unless you can come up with one. >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, I don't have any. >> [laughter] >> All right. Well, if that's all, then I will ask um

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for a motion to close the meeting. >> So moved. >> I'll reluctantly second. >> All right. >> I'll second. >> All in favor, Jim? >> I. >> Ed? >> I. >> Ted? >> That is an I.

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>> And I'm also an I. >> That's it. >> All right. Thanks, everybody. >> was a fruitful one. Be well, everybody. Be well. >> Good night, everyone. >> Good night. >> Bye. >> Bye, everybody. >> Mhm.