--------- Good evening and welcome to the board of health public hearing. Uh this is for the nicotine free generation regulations. Thank you for coming. If anyone is interested in any of the uh tobacco handouts, they are located at
that station there along with the proposed uh regulations for tonight's hearing. Um this public hearing is televised. The following is the purpose, order, and conduct for the
hearing. The purpose is for the board of health to receive information upon which to base its decision from interested citizens and residents to execute the nicotine-free generations regulation. The board will hear comments from those
in support or opposition, if any. After comments are voiced, the board will address any concerns or questions if any and will request for additional comments or questions that are not repetitive. The board will discuss as
they as the need of any additional information if any. The board will announce its decision if any. The chairman will request a motion to either continue or close the public hearing. The board will entertain a motion for a
vote if any. The following is the conduct for citizens and residents. Each person must identify oneself. Each person may may speak only once in support of
opposition or in favor. Uh all comments and questions must be addressed to the board of health. If there are questions, they will be noted by the board of health who will determine those which it finds pertinent to the matter. The board of
health chairman may limit repetitive comments. So, if anyone wishes to come and voice their comments, please do so by standing up at the microphone and uh announcing oneself.
I'll go first. Good evening everybody. My name is Scott Francis. I live in uh Ashlin, Massachusetts. So, I'm not a Hopkinson resident. I work for Massachusetts Organization for Addiction Recovery. And I am a person in long-term addiction
recovery, mental health recovery, and trauma recovery. I never would have started smoking cigarettes if uh they haven't been given away. I was actually hospitalized against my will in 1995 at Pocasset Institute and they passed out
cigarettes two at a time and unfortunately I became addicted to nicotine and it really had a negative impact on my life. I smoked from 1995 until 1997 when I quit the first
time and then I had a a return to use in 2000. Uh and that return to use lasted six years and it great greatly impacted uh my life and like also it's been the most difficult addiction I've had to
overcome. I used alcohol and marijuana. And when I had my first return to use from alcohol, it took place in 2006 after 10 and a half months of sobriety and I was able to just after a weekend go back to AA or a 12step
fellowship and uh return to uh my recovery and had one more incident, one more night where I used alcohol and I hadn't had a drink since September 22nd, 2007. So, as you can see, that return to use from alcohol didn't last nearly as long.
And the return to use from nicotine, uh, it lasted for years, six years, thousands of dollars. It affected my health. Um, and so I am advocating to have a nicotine-free generation. Uh I
testified in conquered and at that hearing and they voted to uh to support not not selling uh tobacco products in conquered. So I'm asking this board to consider to have uh do everything we can to prevent people from having access to
a product that hurts people, a product that kills people and uh people who do want to use that product. There's many ways of getting that product, but let's make it as difficult as possible for young adults. I have two children, ages eight and 11. I hope they never pick up
that first sucker drug because nobody knows where it'll take them. So, I ask to you to support this to uh prevention is real important. So, thank you very much. Thank you. Go Celtics. Anyone else? So, my name is Erin Bardellini. I am the
drug-free communities coalition coordinator here for the town of Hopington. And I'm going to read a letter of support from a Hopington Organizing for Prevention, which has been signed by many leaders in our community. So, to the members of the Hopington Board of Health, Hopington Organizing for Prevention is a
community-based coalition dedicated to preventing youth substance use and promoting wellness. Founded in 2015 in response to the opioid crisis, HOP has grown into a strong multis- sector coalition representing youth, parents, schools,
businesses, law enforcement, healthcare, local government, faith-based groups, civ civic organizations, and others committed to prevention. Our mission is to collaboratively prevent youth substance use by providing resources, education, and support that build
resilience and promote well-being across our community. We are writing to express our full support for nicotine free generation policy, a proactive and forward-thinking initiative that aligns with our values and mission by preventing early nicotine use. This
policy supports lifelong health and helps protect Hawkington youth from long-term addiction and chronic illness. Insights gleaned from the 2023 Metro West Adolescent Health Survey, as well as recent Hawkington Middle School and High School focus groups underscores
nicotine use is starting at young ages. This trend elevates the risk of substance use disorders and heightens susceptibility to chronic ailments such as cancer, heart disease, and respiratory disorders. The science is clear. Vaping during adolescence can disrupt brain
development, cause respiratory health hazards, and lead to long-term addiction. Youth focused marketing and affordable product pricing only make this these harmful products more accessible. The trajectory for nicotine free generation policy is a critical
step toward changing that trae trajectory. By championing championing the nicotine-free generation initiative, we s signal our unwavering commitment to safeguarding the health and future of our children. We stand poised to take proactive measures to ensure that our
youth grow up in an environment free from the influence of nicotine. As a coalition, our mandate extends to safeguarding all aspects of our youth health, including shielding them from the harmful effects of nicotine. This policy policy resonates deeply with
our mission of promoting health and enhancing the quality of life for Hopington residents. We urge the board of health to endorse this policy and stand with us pri prioritizing the health and future of Hington's youth. Together we can make meaningful take
meaningful action to prevent addiction, promote wellness, and ensure that every young person in Hington has the opportunity to thrive. And this letter has been signed by many members in the community. Um, notably the chief chief of police, Joseph
Bennett, Lieutenant Aaron O'Neal, Officer Matt Santoro, the school resource officer, Carol Kavanaaugh, our superintendent of schools, Abigail Hansum, the director of student services, Paula Venetian, the medical home care coordinator for Main Street
Pediatrics, Jim Cousins, our HCAM station director, Bart Pinchuk, executive director of the YMC outdoor center, Reverend Sarah Schneider Watson of the Vineyard Church, Nha Ninan from who is a senior at Hopington High School, Sean Mclliff our
health director, Simone Carter our public health nurse, and Gail Lavine our hot chair. Thank you. Good evening. I'm Bart Pinchuk. I'm the executive director of the Metro West YMCA Outdoor Center uh here in Hopkin,
45 East Street, and thank you for allowing me to speak in support of uh the nicotine-free generation policy. At the YMCA, we are deeply committed to youth development and healthy living
values which uh align well with the goals of this policy. As you know, um, protecting our youth from early tobacco use is not just a public health issue. It's an investment in their future. So,
we stand proudly with the HOP Coalition in support and urge you to adopt this policy for the wellness of our community and youth. Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you tonight.
I'm Morin Busby, Mystic Valley Regional Tobacco Prevention Program Coordinator. I live in Melrose. While working on tobacco prevention for these past 14 years, I have gained firsthand experience in how the tobacco industry entices young people to try new,
appealing, and very addictive nicotine products. Almost no young people smoke. That's a good thing. Tobacco control advocates worked for decades to achieve that. Meanwhile, the tobacco industry has also been hard at work developing new products that don't look, feel, or
smell like cigars and cigarettes. 10 years ago, it was Jewel with cool, sleek, discreet devices that looked like flash drives and came in a variety of flavors. Jewel Labs was sued for deceptive advertising aimed at youth,
and Massachusetts received a $41 million settlement. Since Juel, other manufacturers have entered the market with even more brilliant designs. Vapes that look just like highlighters, big style pens that you can use to write or vape, and more recently, vapes with
video games. Yes, you can play a video game while you vape. I have photos that I'll leave here tonight of recently purchased products that I would like to I'd like to submit the photos to the board. There's a vape device that looks just like a miniature guitar. A soft,
squishy, neon colored teddy bear and a a vape CD combo so that you can play music while you vape. What's next? This is the industry's playbook. Develop exciting new products that appeal to young people because big tobacco in order to continue
to make billions every year. Needs replacement customers. Those replacement customers are youth. Remember the industry's motto. Hook them while they're young and you have a customer for life. That's a quote from industry documents. By the way, these
new products are not a way for youth to quit. It's a way for youth to start a habit, which for many becomes a lifelong addiction, which in turn can lead to other substance use as well as serious health issues, huge financial burden, and even the loss of career
opportunities. Six communities in my region decided to protect youth by adopting this forward-thinking public health regulation. I encourage you to adopt this policy as well, which will start us on a path to end nicotine addiction and end youth use of poisonous products that
cause so much harm, all in the name of profit. Thank you. Thank you. Hello, my name is Ida Germa. I work as a prevention outreach coordinator at Bayate Community Services and I support the Greater Boston Tobacco-Free Community Partnership Program, which
works to protect and prevent youth from smoking and vaping. During my first year in college, I vividly remember sitting in class, turning around, and unexpectedly seeing one of my peers vaping. Unfortunately, this wasn't the only time I saw it happen. It shocked
me, not just because it was bold, but because of how normalized nicotine news had become, even in a place of learning, the tobacco industry continues to target youth and young adults through advertisements and flavorings, leaving them vulnerable and addicted to use these products anywhere and at any time.
Just imagine, we could be part of a future where youth grow up never touching a cigarette or vaping device. It's our shared responsibility to take action and to build a culture that values health over addiction. Neighbor towns have already implemented this nicotine-free generation policy and
Hopkin can too. Thank you. I just want to remind everybody that the discussion like this will end at 7:15. So if you want to speak now, I'm Ross Mkin. I'm an oncologist, a
doctor who treats patients with cancer, including cancers of the mouth and throat. I work at Massachusetts General Hospital and live in Melrose, Massachusetts. I'd like to take the next few minutes to speak with you about the devastating health impacts of tobacco use and to urge you to adopt the nicotine-free generation policy. In my
professional opinion, implementing nicotine-free generation would be a major step forward in improving public health and saving lives in your community. More than half of the patients I care for have a cancer that was caused by tobacco use. These cancers are 100% preventable, but tragically
many are not curable. Despite the best treatments we have, I have cared for far too many patients who have died from tobacco-reated cancers. Many of these patients began smoking in their teenage years. It is well established that once someone becomes addicted to nicotine, it
is extremely difficult to quit. Many of my patients have smoked for decades, often expressing a strong desire to quit for much of that time, but were unable to break the addiction. Tobacco can even cause cancer in relatively young individuals. I'm currently caring for a man in his 50s
who began smoking as a teenager. He developed cancer of the voice box. To treat it, he underwent chemotherapy, radiation, and surgery to remove his voice box, leaving him with a tracheosttomy or a hole in his throat and unable to speak with his mouth.
Despite these extreme measures, his cancer returned within six months. It is now incurable, and he is likely to die before reaching 60. This diagnosis and the suffering that he's endured was entirely preventable. I see patients like him every day. Each case is tragic,
not only because of the suffering involved, but also because it never had to happen. Preventing young people from ever becoming addicted to nicotine is the most effective way to reduce the enormous toll tobacco continues to take. Preventing deadly cancers by stopping youth from becoming addicted to tobacco
products is why I believe the nicotine-free generation policy should be implemented. By protecting young people today, we can save countless lives tomorrow. I urge you to adopt it and to protect the next generation from the preventable suffering caused by tobacco addiction. Thank you for
considering my opinions and I'd be happy to take questions following the conclusion of the hearing. Thank you. Jenny Chadwick, Columbia, Missouri in Somerville, Massachusetts. Um I'm here doing my PhD, but a decade ago I was on
the Columbia Missouri City Council and I was one of the bill sponsors of a first tobacco 21 policy to pass in the nation. And it was because of communities like yours here in Massachusetts that get the special opportunity to vote on this from the board of health level um to pass
policy to protect public health. Dr. Jacobs, as you said, like there's nothing more powerful than the role of public health in our communities and to really make a difference. And in this current political environment, you guys have an opportunity to make public health policy that will have a huge
impact in the community. And so I really encourage you to do so. I'm also the co-author of the decriminalization of tobacco products document that's been co-signed by over 45 national organizations and statewide organizations. And in that document, we say that we shouldn't penalize the
individual who falls prey to a multi-billion dollar industry trying to addict our kids, but we should go after the industry who tries to addict these young people. And so when you think of nicotine free generation, it is about regulating the sale of nicotine
products. It is not putting the onus on the individual but preventing the sale to those who will fall prey to the industry. So I encourage you to vote yes on this policy tonight. Thank you. Good evening. Uh Mark God. I'm the
executive director of the public health advocacy institute at Northeastern University School of Law where I also teach and um a lawyer and have been working around tobacco policy for many many years. Um had the um privilege of
uh of litigating against R.J. Reynolds and Philip Morris invol in cases involving very tragic circumstances where individuals have lost loved ones or um someone has been horribly injured by the use of tobacco products and have
to work with those clients and these are just such terrible tragic stories. Um, on the other hand, I've also had the opportunity of representing the town of Brooklyn in their defense of the nicotine-free generation bylaw that was
passed there in 2020, uh, which was challenged by retailers and worked its way up to the, uh, SJC and, as I'm sure you're aware, um, resulted in a unanimous decision that, um, demonstrated that in Massachusetts, this
is, um, good municipal policy and constitutional municipal policy. Um, and I was so happy to have uh had that opportunity and played that role. By the way, my organization represent any community in Massachusetts that um
passes this policy and faces a legal challenge proono. Um, and the reason I was so gratified is because this is a prevention policy. It's probably one of the most pure prevention policies you can imagine because it doesn't affect
any existing users. Existing users can continue to be sold tobacco products as you know and they can um you know have access to maybe less hazardous products than cigarettes which are the most hazardous tobacco products. um it doesn't affect them in any way, but it
will really stop the cycle of addiction and disease starting with the next generations. And I think that's really what this is all about. And I hope not to have to continue to represent the victims of the tobacco industry going forward. And um I I urge you to uh to
approve this uh uh amended regulation uh become the 16th community in Massachusetts to do this. and we're really creating this momentum for a movement here in the Commonwealth that I hope will reverberate far and wide. Um I have um some written testimony in more
detail and a a guide to uh this policy um that I' I'd like to submit but I'm not quite sure. Sure. You can just hand it off. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, we have about six more minutes. Seven more minutes. Good evening everyone. My name is Nha
Nin and I am here today not just as a concerned member of this community but as a firm believer that the future of Hawington should be nicotine-free. For decades, baked tobacco has profited at the expense of our youth, using manipulative marketing
tactics and exploiting vulnerabilities. They package addiction in sleek designs, target our youngest generations, and disguise harm as a choice. But let's be clear, this is not a choice. It's a calculated strategy to
hook our kids before they even understand the consequences. But those informed youth are against this. They advocate for a nicotine-free generation. On Thursday, in just 15 minutes, I got about 50 signatures from
the high schoolers in support of a nicotine-free generation. We know the truth. Nicotine is highly addictive. It damages developing brains, compromises health, and leads to lifelong struggles. As we have heard, the numbers don't lie. Young
people who start using nicotine are significantly more likely to become lifelong users. We cannot allow tobacco industries to dictate the health of our future leaders, athletes, artists, and dreamers. Hoffington is a town that
thrives on progress, community, and strong values. We rally behind one another. Whether it's supporting a neighbor in need or cheering at the start of the Boston Marathon, today we stand for something even greater. The right of every child
to grow up free from the grip of big tobacco. As I'm leaving Huffington, I'm a senior in high school now, prepared to graduate. I actually just came back from my job working with toddlers. And every single time I leave them, I ask, "What
kind of legacy do I want to leave?" If we truly care about our youth, about their health, and their potential, then we must take action. We must push for stronger policies, better educ education, and real consequences
for tobacco companies that prey on kids. Together, we can make Hington a beacon for change. A place where the next generation doesn't just survive, but thrives without addiction, without manipulation, and without the chains of nicotine. Our future depends on it.
Thank you. Thank you. [Applause] Hello, I'm Zachary Rich. I'm a pulmonary and critical care doctor. I make my living and pay my mortgage by treating tobacco-reated diseases and I would
invite you to support this NFG uh policy. I worked in the COVID ICU where we had every single one of our beds filled with a COVID patient and after the vaccine those beds very quickly became taken over by people suffering
with tobacco-reated diseases. Um, I think you have an opportunity here to do something that I will never be able to do, and that is protect the children of Hopkin and let them learn from the burden of tobacco diseases that my
generation and my patients generations had to bear. Um, I think this is some of the most important work I do and would invite you to consider adopting the NFG legislation. Thank you. Hello, I'm Anthony Aishek. I am a resident of the town of Brooklyn, a
pharmacist for nearby hospital system, and I was a co-etitioner on the bylaw in Brooklyn that is now before you for your town to consider. I'm not sure that there's very much that I can add to the others, but I am just going to speak to you a little bit about the experience in
Brooklyn and and why this came to be. um you know working in in health care along with like the physicians and everyone you've heard from before a lot of the focus is on treatment. This is one of the situations where it's out in the environment and by prevention helps make
our job easier. Everyone has mentioned working with cancer and all the various disease states has talked about treatment. Well, we need to rely on healthier infrastructure. We rely on parks to help with exercises, safer environments for people to be in and less toxic environments. And so that was
part of the reason we came up with this in Brooklyn after the whole vaping pandemic, but before we knew about nicotine pouches, prevention is key. Quote, Weinstein states, this is from an article, that smoking cannot be interpreted as a choice made in the
presence of full information about the potential harm. Their study found that smokers underestimate their personal risk and often mi mispersceive the nature and severity of tobacco related related diseases. Smokers substitute for any tobacco or nicotine product here often
do not think carefully about risks from smoking when they first begin to smoke. Youth tend to initiate smoking based on the notion that it is a fun and exciting behavior. They often learn of the health risks from exposure after initiation through exposure to antismoking or
anti-tobacco media messages about the hazards. Youth often repudate their earlier decision of smoking and feel guilty for having ever started. In fact, 75% of users quickly regret starting, but there's only a 6% success rate with
each attempt. That often takes six or seven attempts. This policy is particularly important in Hopkin. Why? While the lung cancer incident in Hopkin is about 24% higher than the state average for a relatively wealthy and healthy
community, this is despite a lower than average 8% usage rate. This is the addiction that keeps on taking even after quitting. There is also opportunity cost. Youth who use tobacco are not eligible for basic training for the military cannot join our police and
fire departments in Massachusetts for basic training. And in fact, a recent study in 2024, 30 seconds, sure. Um, showed that teens who vaped had lower cognitive test scores in college than non-users and smokers. There's no
financial cost that comes to the community of Hopington from tobacco use. Any money from taxes goes up to the state level. The only money made here is from permits. What is important is just a 1% decrease in tobacco use amongst the mass health population brings back $70
million in the first year or two. There's no reason for me to have to explain what is currently happening with the budget and the budget cuts, but this is important financially and important for health. A lot of things start in Hopkin. This is probably one of the things that should end here in Hopkin.
So, I encourage you to vote favorably for this health policy. Thank you for your time. Comments. Thank you very much. We're done with a comment period. The hearing is now closed. The board will now um request a motion to either continue
or close the public hearing. A motion. I make a motion to close the public hearing. Second. Second. All in favor? I I I. The board will now entertain a motion for a vote if any or discussion.
Y just say that the board has considered materials and talked about. All right. So considering all the comments and the written documents in front of us. Uh we would like to take a vote on the
regulation. Um all in favor? I can make a motion um to um approve the nicotine free generation regulation as presented. Second.
All in favor? I uh the board will now make a motion as to when this should be affected as Sean. No, it should be a January 1 date so that it's clear the year of birth.
January. January one. Do I need a motion for that? Yes, sir. Motion for January 1 start date. I make a 2005, right? No, January. It'll go in
effect. Oh, it goes into effect. Yes. Do you want to wait until January 1st of 2020 of 2026 to have the vendors take this into effect or would you like it sooner than that? Well, we can propose to move with the uh the
permitting year. So, that would be July 1st of this year for it to go in effect. That'll give them a month to clear the product off the shelves and um then the amendment that All right. But the the birth the date of birth the date of
birth is is January January 12 2005. Yes. But the start start date July 1st. Okay. So uh I hear a motion that it that it take effect uh July 1st,
2025. Yes. Second. All in favor? Hi. Hi. Thank you very much. That concludes our hearing. Thank you all for coming and uh
lending your voices. We appreciate that. Thank you. [Applause] Part: 2
5. This meeting will be conducted via remote means in accordance with applicable law. This means that members of the public body as well as members of the public may access this meeting via virtual means. Participants may access this meeting through the remote meeting link as posted on the meeting agenda and through the town's online calendar when
required by law or allowed by the chair. Persons wishing to provide public comment or otherwise participate in the meeting may do so by raising their hand or otherwise signaling their intent to speak. This meeting will be recorded. Please take care to mute your microphone unless you have been recognized by the
chair. Okay, John, take attendance. That would be the next step. Okay, let's see. I I see I have John I I've kind of been looking over. There's um I have it as myself, Daniel Hunt,
James Burton, Sean Mastersonson, and John Cino chair. Is anybody else on the committee here? on the board. I mean, one, two, three. We had Dan,
Dan, Sean, James, myself, John, John, Mike, James, Michael, Jan, and Sean. So, we've got we got six. Okay. Excellent. We got a we got a bonus round. Okay. Good. All right. All right. So, so All right. So,
we'll open up we'll open up this. Okay. So, everybody's here. So, and and we've got John here from the town. Anybody else here from the town? John, you're you're running solo. Okay. Yes. Beautiful. Thank you. Oh, do we have uh Oh, um Oh, Mike. Mike's not
here. Uh inspector. Okay. No, doesn't look like All right. Beautiful. All right. So, let's let's uh let's open this up. Um do I have a did did Adena send me a script? Let me just move this over a little bit. Just
give me a second. Let me just see if she if she sent me a script and I'll just One second. I didn't get sent anything. No, no, she usually sends it to me. Well, she sent me an email that said you weren't going to be on May 7th said you weren't going
to be here. So, I know. I I I No, no, no. So, I thought I'd be sent but I didn't. Yeah. So, Let me just take a look. Hold on. Um, additional documents. Get the draft decision. Give me one second, please.
No, she didn't send it to me. No. Uh, let me see if maybe Kobe did. John, do sorry to ask you, but do you happen to have um anything that we can
read to open up this officially for 12 North Mill? Yes, John, just I don't know, John, if you saw it, but they uh Kobe seem to think that they were requesting a continuence to June 11th. Yes. Okay. So, then let's hit that one first and let's get that one out of
the way. That's what I figured. Thank you. I can just read that for me. Sorry that I don't have [Music] The notice is not in the folder. I know that I that's the same thing I look for
too. I got everything but she usually sends me the notices separately. All right, here we go. The Hopkinson Board of Appeals will hold a public hearing on Wednesday, May 14th, 2025 at 7 p.m. to hear all persons interested in the petition for variance
filed by Wall Street Development Corp. PO Box 272, Westwood, Massachusetts. The petitioner seeks relief from the zoning bylaws for construction of a new single family home at 12 North Mil Street, Hopkinson, Massachusetts, that does not meet the minimum front setback. The property is shown on assessor's map R19
block 23 lot E. The hearing will be held remotely using the Zoom meeting service. For additional information, please email ZBAington.gov. Call the Department of Land use planning and permitting at 5084979745 or check the online meeting calendar and agenda for this meeting at www.hawinma.gov.
This legal notice is also posted on the Massachusetts Newspaper Publishers Association MNPA website at httpbackmasspublic notices.org. I never do the back slashbackslash. Sorry,
it's funny. I I almost couldn't probably do that do that ad hoc. Um I've done so done a couple thousand of them I think at this point. Okay. So, um, is there anybody here from 12 North Mill? Don't they have to request it themselves or did they already put the
request in? Oh, you're they sent a letter. So, they requested the continuation, I believe. Okay. So, uh, would somebody like to make a motion to uh, did they give a date when they might want it? June 11th. I can share if you'd like the request.
Would you like me to share my screen and show the request? Um, sure. Okay. It's definitely for public record. Okay. Beautiful. Okay. So, would somebody like to make a motion? I make a motion that
we accept the uh request for postponing this hearing until June 11th. Okay. And um do we have a second? Second. Second. Okay. So, we need we just need five votes. So, who do we So,
so all right. So, let's see. I have John, Mike, Michael, and Dan. Okay. Sean, you get the next one or something. Oh, Sean. Sean, you can have this one. You're in the You're in the right spot in my row. Okay. Uh we have a we have a
motion in a second. Uh um Michael, yes. Uh James, yes. Uh Mike, why do I have two micro? Dan. Yes. Uh Sean. Yes. And I vote in the
affirmative also. Excellent. All right. So, Mont Hamilton. So, we just have five. We have five. Oh my gosh. Okay. Beautiful. Okay. Motion passes. All right. So, um John, may I
impose upon you again to read uh the one for Chamberlain? The Hopkins and Board of Appeals will host a hold a public hearing on Wednesday, May 14th, 2025 at 7 PM to hear all persons interested in the petition for variance filed by Ronald and Barbara Foys, 25 Chamberlain Street,
Hopington, Massachusetts. The petitioners seek relief from the zoning bylaws for construction of a detached accessory dwelling unit in excess of 900 ft at 25 Chamberlain Street, Hopington, Massachusetts. Property is shown on assessor's map R24, block 20, lot zero. The hearing will be held remotely using the Zoom meeting service. For additional
information, please me email zba hopkinsma mma.gov, call the department of land use planning and permitting at 5084979745 or check the online meeting calendar and agenda for this meeting at www.h.hopkinington.gov. This legal notice is also posted on the Massachusetts Newspaper Publishers
Association MNPA website at masspublic.org. Excellent. Great job. All right. Um, oh, see on your screen it says uh Bob and Ron and you you are you applied under Ron and Barb? I don't know. Might
have to ask you to change that but uh Okay. Could you um uh enter and sign in please? Could you uh is are you representing yourselves? Did you have counsel or somebody? We are represented ourselves and we'd like to make a few comments if we might
before you start. Um okay. Yes. As long as they're within the bounds of what you know uh you know as long as you're not going to say we want this because my husband's a really great guy and he does a whole bunch of great stuff for the town and this that that
you know I just as long as you keep it within the bounds of of Okay. Thank you. We just wanted to introduce ourselves Barb and Ron Foys. We've lived in Hopington for 36 years. The last 25 on Chamberlain Street. Thank you for the
opportunity to present our ADU project tonight and for your service to our community's development. I'd also like to introduce you to Mike Dean of DNL Design Group who is on the call. His company has stamped the plans that are in front of you. We're here to request
your approval for an accessory dwelling unit larger than the maximum allowed by right. We've had a series of medical issues over the last few years which have been a true hardship for us. We were concerned that we would be forced to move, but the passage of the
Affordable Homes Act has allowed us to determine that moving into an ADU built for our medical needs right on our property that we love would be the best course of action for us. We have come up with a plan that meets all the setback requirements, as you can see in our
drawings, and allows us to continue our work by using office space in the second bedroom. We're asking for an extra 242 square f feet for this office space, which brings the ADU to 1,000 square ft. This is 2third of the size of our
current house. Not having this space would cause financial hardship. And as you may know, Chamberlain Streets, a scenic road, and our lot with this new ADU would be in keeping with the look and feel of the neighborhood. And we thank you for the opportunity to be here
tonight. Um, Ron, you have your hand up, too. You're your this. Oh, it's Oh. Oh, no. That's Sorry. That's That's Why do I Why is my my not my not a pointer? Sorry. I had a hand right in front of
your face on my screen. I You know, I I Yeah, I'm I'm sorry. I'm not totally with it. I was I was actually in the hospital all week uh with a heart issue, so that's why I wasn't going to come today. But uh uh okay, that being said,
um All right. So, can you can you just describe what a little more detail what you want to do? Would you want Mr. Dean, do you want to describe what you what you're trying to do? And um uh trying to convince us that uh that
this is a uh is worthy of our uh saying uh it's a go on it. Mike, if you could just uh share your screen with that colored plot plan on it, I think that could be helpful. Okay,
it says send a request. So, somebody um you should be able to just I changed it. You just did it. Okay. Dodge fast. Okay. Do you see that or Yes. Y have to zoom in a little bit so that people can actually see. We don't need
we don't need to see your DNL design and all that. Just Okay, that's better. Thank you. How about that? Much better. Okay, so just a quick um run through of the plan itself. Uh Mike Dean with DNL Design
Group here representing Ron and Barbara Forsy. The project is referred to as 25 Chamberlain Street. Chamberlain Street is running along the bottom of the plan here. Do you see my pointer? And it is a corner lot Chamberlain
Street and Angelo Drive. The existing house is situated towards Chamberlain shown here in the light gray. Single family house shown there. Access through the driveway. That's the existing house. And what's being proposed is the a
detached ADU shown in the rear portion of the parcel shown in this purplish color of fuchsia I should say. And that's shown there. That's the thousand square foot ADU that they're petitioning
for. Access through or off of Angelo Drive shown here and meeting all the required setbacks for the zoning. So, this is strictly associated with the ADU and being slightly over the uh required I mean the the allowed by right for the
ADU. Um the ADU would be serviced just like the existing single family house by existing um sewer, town sewer and town water. Town water shown in the blue and the red being the sewer heading out
towards Chamberlain Street. So that's the overall uh once again the proposed structure is within the setbacks. So it's not a true it's not a variance in a sense of setbacks. It it conforms to everything. Um, so it really is
associated with, like I said, the ADU and, um, implementing the Affordable Homes Act. And with that, I turn it back over to Bob and Ron, or if they're ready to turn it back over to the to the board.
You're right. Through the chair, just the the garage that's included there is not part of the square footage. That that will not be a heated unit. It's just the proposed detach unit on a on a slab.
So So it's So is it uh what five five and change? Five and change. It's two floors. One floor. So So the It's only one Oh, shoot. Um Mike, do can you do you have any of the
any of the um drawings of the house of the design? I thought it was a twotory. I thought it was 500 and 500. It's only a single story. It's a singlestory twobedroom. We're building it 80 um ADA compliant so that
we can age in place and stay here till we die. So, the main reason for us to want to move is is the medical issues of aging. And we're asking for a little bit more space than 758 square ft so that we can
have a second bedroom and use that for office space since we are both still working in plan two for quite a while. You know about aging this week. Oh boy. Yeah. And so so that's what I that's what I was
uh Yeah. So the John through through the chair. I I'm I'm a bit confused because the the the the drawing that we're looking at now that
510 on the proposed detached unit slab equals 510. Is 510 the square footage? No. Uh through the chair, I'm sorry. No, that's the elevation. The slab elevation. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Sean, that's what Oh, I'm sorry. I I'm
sorry. I Maybe I missed That's what you were trying. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying if if you're saying that you're a thousand square feet and so that's why I just said is it is it two stories 500 and 500? Because I'm trying to see where the thousand square feet
is. Okay. So, now I'm through through the chair that main box those dimensions. You can see the smaller dimensions on the plan. You can zoom in. They are like but no in this area 39 by 25 is essentially the main box. So if you did
Mhm. Can you show the pictures that were submitted in the plan? The floor plan. Yeah. Yeah. Just show that floor just flash that floor plan that was up there for a second. I um Okay, hold on one second. I I just want to make sure I
have the right one because there was a couple of revisions. If you Oh, okay. Yeah, as as long as it's the the square footage is the same, that's fine. You just better build it to the right rev or Ron will be upset. Yes.
My question is for John G. Just I have a question about the ADU because they're asking for because it's 900 square ft or no more than 50% larger whichever is smaller than the
current dwelling. So is that what the So is the application have to address both of those? So, um, the application is requesting a thousand foot, uh, unit. So, it really would just be a
variance from that square footage. It doesn't matter which one it is. I mean, they could either do 900 square feet or, right? So, they're just trying to go for a thousand. So it kind of is both only because he said it was 2/3 the size which means it's so and that's when he
was asking for the 200 and some odd feet bait cuz if it's what's the square footage of your current home run 1,516. Okay. So I because I think this is the the start of a wave that we're going to
have of these coming up. Um, I just want to make sure there's nothing. It's all done right or we make it right tonight. So, we we if we do grant this, it's done properly to
address this new law because that's to me that's two separate things, right? And I think we could if we end up going that way, we should mention almost separate them out for approval.
So through the chair, it's the way that it's written, it's 50% of the principal dwelling unit or or 900 square feet, whichever is smaller. So it's really just one number. So if they So they've got All right. Um what is it? What did
you say it was 1516? So [Music] 758 would be the maximum size that they could do on their lot. So they're asking for a thousand. So the relief is really it's not relief from 900. It's relief
from 758. Correct. Yeah. 900 doesn't come into play in this in this equation because they're not the 900's only if they had like a 2500 square foot principal. Yep. And that's all I was saying because I just read up on this law recently. So,
uh, it's familiar. So, I just want us to make sure if we do grant it, we grant it correctly. And I do think this is going to be a wave of future ones to come, right? Yeah. So, so basically they look what, 242 square feet from a thousand to
78. Yep. Is that garage M, I don't know, Mr. Dean, if you could answer that. Is that garage currently on site or is that part of the project? it. The the garage is not on site and it's given the economics of this
project, it's more unlikely that we're actually going to be able to afford to build it at this time. But we we did the drawing that way initially to see that if at some point in the future we could, would it fit within the setback requirements?
Okay. I I think that may require a separate application. What? What? If they if they do it afterwards, you mean? No, if they do it now because my my reading of of the statute is
that like it's the dwelling unit only and the garage would be separate and apart from that. Right. But the way the way I'm I'm understanding it is dwelling well the way I know when I build you know we we don't count uh
stuff that's not well I'm talking port Florida not under air so the garage isn't under air so it's the the garage is a is is not part of the
equation unless it doesn't meet sewrecks and and and such. Um, and there's nothing above it. They're not asking for uh room above it. Well, I also think that, you know, once they go through the, you know, the town to get the
permits to build, they're going to make sure that the setbacks we're only here to grant relief for the uh um auxiliary. Yeah. And you Yeah. Okay. Yeah, but I
guess my concern is that the garage is considered part of that dwelling unit. Um because I I don't believe the town has it changed any of the zoning relative to
ADUs and the ADU as a matter of right under the statute would only allow the um 900 square feet or in this case 700 and whatever 58. Yeah.
Um right. But that's why Well, that's why they're coming to us. Yeah. Um so what you're saying, Sean, is you believe that they should the the garage? We're not voting on the garage. We're we're only voting on the other
thing. But when they build it, they can only build the that the town only. And I guess John would go would have to answer this that the building permit would only go for the auxiliary dwelling and not the garage. Is that kind of what
you're saying? And they'd have to get a separate permit to build a garage. Yeah, that's what I'm that's my reading of the statute. I mean, the issue is, for those that I've seen, it is only a dwelling unit.
There's no um garage, right? And the I think the statute even said, you know, parking is not necessarily an issue with the statute, right? Because you can put it in your backyard. Um Right. I think you have you have to have
one parking spot unless you're within a half a mile of some sort of regular mass transit stop, right? But the, you know, the way I'm looking at is I think we also have to look at each one of these as sight specific. You know, uh um
you what what I'm interested are there any is are there any members of the public here or that have any comment on this? Yeah. Because this is this is one of the first ones we've come across. Yeah. As you said, we're going to see a lot of
them. Yeah. Um and neighbor of um I I know the folks I live at 30 Chamberlain. Um I'm sorry. Excuse me. Uh what's your name? Uh Maxim Araf
30 Chamberlain. Okay, great. Thank you. We need we need that for for the minutes, of course. Okay. So, uh what's your opinion? Um, I mean, I don't see uh particular changes and I'm I'm surprised that the buy right law to begin with was capped at 800. Um, not sure where that
number came from, but um I pretty much have no no objections as a neighbor uh without any sort of indepth review of the plans there. Any any other neighbors? My name is Dave Heling. I'm on Angelo
Drive. I'm a direct abuter right behind where their garage would be. And uh I have a law uh lawyer here to represent me. I I do not approve of this. Okay. Now, now which part of it is the the
the the garage or the or the entire project? Really the entire project. It's a fairly small lot anyway. and it's going to be right right up against my my uh pretty close to my house.
The new statute gives them the right to build this the auxiliary unit. So the the question as long as they meet their setbacks isn't about whether we can stop that dwelling. We we we really don't
have a right to stop that dwelling uh based on what the new law states. So the question is do we grant relief which they're under their right to do this they're asking for relief of 200 and some odd feet. Um that's what what's in
front of the board. Uh as far as the garage go I think that's going to have to be a question we go back to council on and to look at it. Sean, unless you feel comfortable answering it because I think Sean brings up an interesting um point. Uh which uh again won't affect
whether they get an auxiliary dwelling, but it may affect the building of that garage attached to it through the chair. Was that directed at me, John, or John Cino? John, I think it was you, John, because you John
G. You're a hokei. Uh, so the garage if it meets zoning wouldn't need a permit. It would just need a building permit. Right? So if you if they didn't put the ADU on the lot and they just want to put the garage, if
that doesn't need a special permit or a variance, it would be allowed by right. Um, so I don't see it needing relief. So, it will need a building permit application, but I don't know what application it would need from the ZBA
if it doesn't need relief. And and so there's no the to then to me, John, um the the garage isn't even in this discussion. It goes back to what the the relief that they're seeking. This board's only job is to decide if
we're going to grant the relief of the extra footage and that's it. We're taking the garage out of it and because there's no issues. Is that correct? That's my view of it. Yes. Okay. All right. So, so we're just we're looking at 242 square feet is what we're talking. So, I will put the caveat
though. If the garage were to be finished and insulated and habitable, then that would count towards the gross floor area of the ADU. But since it's not, it doesn't count towards the square footage of the ADU. No, I saw it originally.
Okay. Sean, are you comfortable with that? Yeah. And I I think the way the way this plan was was drawn and displayed that kind of got me thinking about it, but but I see John's point. I do, too. Yeah.
Okay. All right. So, so we're so and so, um, the way I'm I'm going to look at it is we're only looking at the the at the ADU unit and we're only talk and we're only going to speak about the 242 square ft and not the extra square. That's all
we're going to talk about tonight. Anything else? They'll have to um deal with the building department when they go if they want to build that garage. May I inquire about something that's related to this project, but uh just for
my my own interest, second curb cut on a second street. Is that an issue in any way? Uh that's something they they'd have to take up with the building department. Actually, I think I think that's that's not even building. That's um the curb cut that goes to highway.
Yes. Okay. Um but Max, we're gonna pull it right back into the uh into the into the group again. All right. So, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, if I may, I guess you are. My name is
Henry Lane. I'm the attorney that represents Mr. Heling. Okay. I have a question or two. The the first one relates to the uh to the building. When I look at the elevation, it looks like it almost looks like there's a second story there. There are
windows and there's a uh the pitch of the roof is a 512 as opposed to a 712. And it appears like there's going to be space up there. I don't see any access to that in the floor plan. So, I'm I'm kind of wondering what's going on there. I'm typically you don't put windows in
your attic space, but um so I can't tell what that is, but I was wondering if some somebody could com explain what that is. Uh you see what appears to be a second floor. Sure. Sure. I I'll I'll ask Mr.
Mr. Dean, did you hear that question? Yes, I heard that question. Um I think Ron was involved in designing the plans um a little bit more than I have, but the what what that looks like is that it just be uh it actually makes the the structure look aesthetically look a
little nicer, bringing in uh you know what the dorm is bringing light into the upper uh portion of the uh which would be inside which would be your ceiling. So, but Ron could probably confirm that either way. Okay. So, that's not a that's not a second floor. It's just you've you've just got really high
ceilings is what you're saying. I believe so. Correct. This there's there's here there here's the floor plans. There's the garage in this area. So, we're talking on each side right in this general area up
above. And there's the roof lines, solar panels. There's no nothing here that shows the um that it's a second floor on these plans. Well, just just so it's clear, there's there's not going to be any access to
that to anything above the first floor. That is correct. So, there's no attic. Correct. No, it's a vated ceiling over the kitchen and living room area just to make it seem a little brighter and more spacious. All right. Thank you. Good. Thank you,
Henry. With with respect to the project as a whole, as Mr. heavily indicated if you look at that that site plan was that was up on uh earlier you can see that his house is is very close and for whatever reason apparently you
know setbacks when that was built weren't aren't what they are today but currently he has basically you know a nice buffer between the existing home and his home and that seems you know something he would obviously like to like to preserve if he could when I look
at this whole plan overall all I say to myself, what am I looking at? And I understand the accessory uh dwelling unit uh law and what was intended. But we essentially what you have here is two full full-blown homes. This hardly looks like an accessory unit. This looks like
a second primary uh home, which I understand that the you know, the owners and the applicants have some concerns and they have some issues, but that's not what the accessory uh dwelling unit law was designed for. It was designed to be a a subordinate
uh dwelling unit. And here you have one that, you know, in terms of floor plan is is essentially a second primary. And that that's what they're going to use it as, a primary uh primary residence, not as an accessory. So, uh, you know, you're essentially creating two primary
residences on a single lot. And as I understand it, and and I'm not as familiar with the zoning bylaws in the town of Hopington as I am in other towns, but as I understand it, this is already an undersized lot. So, you're basically creating you you're taking a lot that's has less area than is
currently required under the zoning bylaws, and you're essentially creating uh two primary dwelling uh units on an undersized lot, which is not what the ADU law was intended to do. Uh so so
from our perspective this is really really effectively an abuse of the ADU bylaw. You're creating a second primary residence as opposed to creating an accessory unit. You know these this is not an in-law apartment or something like that. This is a I mean the
applicant make basically admits it's a primary it's going to be their primary residence and and that's not intended. So by so you're basically you know abusing the bylaw by creating two primary residents on a on an undersized
lot which as I say doesn't appear to be fair. You're destroying the open spa the open space and buffer that that uh is currently enjoyed. Uh and you know we we'd strongly urge the board uh not to approve it because it would it would set
you know the kind of precedent you don't want to set. you know, the the the legislature intended uh to make these accessory, which is why they have a requirement that it can't be more than half of the primary uh uh half the size of the primary residence. And here, you
know, we're well beyond that. Okay. All right, Henry. Yeah. Thanks. We we usually only give two minutes for every and you've and and you've you've you've made your point and made it and made it again. I appreciate it. Uh but one of the things you know we we have to say the open space that that your your
client is talking about is is actually owned by the foys. You know it's like you're just saying I I I want that I want the open I want my open space but I don't want to own it you know and then the other thing when we're talking about aesthetics is saying
it's going to look like another house. Well, you know, if as long as it's it's within keeping of the of the of the neighborhood, you know, you can't just say, "Oh, you know, we don't we don't like that it looks like it has a second floor." And that again, it's going to be
a primary residence. you know, whether or not they live there or their their their aunt and uncle or their kids go live there, whether it's a primary or secondary, just because they want to live there and have their kids live in the main house, we can't take that into consideration because, you know, if if
as as a realer, I can't ask any of those questions at all, you know, and so, you know, but they're asking for a variance from what's what's what's permitted. permitted is five uh 758 square feet. They're looking for a thousand feet.
There's no basis for you to grant a variance. There's no hardship relating to the to the land or the topography uh or or um the shape of the lot. This is just simply an request that we ignore the bylaws. We ignore the requirements
of ad of the ADU law and allow essentially, as I've said, two primary residents on a single lot. It's not what was intended. and you know without some statutory basis for a variance uh you know we just simply request that the zoning board do what it's supposed to do
and say look without a statutory basis for a variance you are limited to 758 square ft and you know that's what it is you know it's a it's a simple request that you just enforce the law
the way it's written the way it uh if I May John see who's who's this Maxim again the neighbor. Okay. Actually I'm going to stop I'm gonna max I'm gonna so John so we get a little bit more of an order here and put some time limits on. Uh so what we're going to do
is if somebody wants to speak it is not a jump in. I I want to speak. Uh you have to be recognized by the chair and the chair is going to set the time limits. Um right. Does anybody else? Uh I Barb and Ron have their hand up. So I
think we should need to hear from them. Oh, that must as as the attorney has addressed some issues and I think they're going to do a repose to those issues. So I think that's the important thing to do. Max, I'll put you down as the next person to speak after that. Sure thing. Thank you. Well, we have to
make sure there's no one else in the public who hasn't spoken yet. Okay. There isn't. Okay. Barb and Ron, can you can you address some of the concerns put up by by um the council uh through the chair? The the hardship
that we are facing in our declining years. Barb turned 70 last week. I turned 75 in April. Our health is declining, but we are still productive members of the community. We want to keep working. We can't continue to live
in this house because of all the stairs that are in it. We need an ADA barrierfree design. This law is perfect for us because we can move in there and hopefully get one of our kids to move into the main house so that they're here to allow us. So that the hardship for us
is not sizewise. The hardship is that we would lose our ability to each run our businesses out of the house. And with office rents being what they are, it would be unaffordable for us. Um, any any questions? Let's see. Uh,
Dan, do you have any questions for them? James, I do not, John. Yeah. What do you think from a real estate point of view, Mr. Burton? Well, I was unaware of the square footage component of that or how I ran the law
because this is the first example of this I've run into. Um if their existing house were to somehow get to 2,000 square feet, you know, then they can get up to 900 square f feet. Um right, but then we can always, you
know, you know, I I'm inclined to say to say, you know, we can go to 900, but we can't go to a thousand. Um, you know, that's where I was because, you know, we I want people to be able to stay in
our town. I I'm running the same thing. I'm getting close to 70 myself. I've been in this house almost 30 years. I don't need five bedrooms and four bathrooms, you know? It's just my wife and I, and I'm trying to think of what the heck I'm going to do, but my house is in the middle of my lot, so I can't
do anything about it here. Um, you know, and so I I I I I absolutely feel for them because I'm at that in that age group. Um, but but we need still also need to uh make sure that uh we don't change
precedent too much. Mr. Riley, what are you thinking? Um, I'm going to hold my comments right now. Okay. I want to hear more from everybody. Okay. Okay. Barb, you had your hand up.
Yes. Thank you. I just wanted to remind you that the house that we're in now at 1500 square ft is not a big house. So it may look like, oh, now we're going to have another primary residence. If we were in a million-doll home or $2 million home like down the street, then
a thousand foot square foot ADU would seem small. So I just wanted to give the perspective. We're already in a small house, threebedroom. We're only asking for a twobedroom, 758 square ft. I lived in that when I was 20. That's a small
house. So, we're just trying to live in the way we've become accusto come to in Hopkin and would love to stay on our property. Thank you. Um, anybody else on the board?
I I do, Mr. Chair. I I don't think we have the authority to exceed the square footage that's provided for in the statute. Sure, we are. I I don't think that
happens to us all the time. That happens to us all the time when we when we when we do these things. Yeah. Set that. I I don't know. I I respectfully disagree. I again I may be wrong, but my reading of statute is that it's
limited, right? We can't deny the building of an ADU if it otherwise meets all the requirements setbacks and so forth. However, when it exceeds the allowable square footage because we're we're
setting I think if we allow it, we set a precedent that it can be uh larger than a thousand because there there has to be a line drawn and I think the legislature drew that line at 900 square feet, right? And so if we allow a
th00and then there could be another applicant next week that wants 1,200 for similar reasons. Right. But it doesn't fit if it Yeah. Again this one this one if I have Yeah. If I have a threeacre lot,
I could fit potentially a 1,200,300 square foot uh ADU and I could have the same argument that because I went to REBA this week, this Monday and the legislature recap of this, they
talked about this. It actually setbacks are eliminated. If say for example the lot was so small that there's a a septic system there and the only place you could put it is violation of the
setbacks. They have a right by law to vi to to overrule town setbacks and plant it there. So it's got a trump card to setbacks if there's no other reason place to put it on the property. So it's it's actually a strong So I'm kind of
agreeing with you, but it it does allow you to put it even over setbacks if there's no other place, but it's within the constrines of greater than, you know, 900 orif or
50% whichever is less. So those if it meets those criteria, it trumps all setbacks, right? But this one doesn't. Yeah, I I I'm cons my
concern is that there there would be no limit to the square footage. So, so the way I'm looking at it is I would I I'd feel comfortable granting them the
900 square feet over the 7 over the 758. And then therefore, we're not changing precedent. We're working we're we're we're working with them and if they could change their design to meet 900 square feet to me that would be uh
that that's we're we're um standing on the edge of the of the rules and and and and and granting relief to people that need it. That's the the whole reason for the board of appeals is to grant relief when when
it's when it's warranted. And this is one of those where, you know, it's be just because they they they have one of the smaller houses in town that that that we shouldn't, you know, we, you know, it's that to have, you know, have them
to go to 50% just because they're they're they're aging in place. you know, uh, you know, maybe we can give them we can give them uh 140 square feet there, 138 square feet or whatever it is.
Um, to uh to at least have have peace of mind. You keep mentioning that this is a thousand square feet. I think you're Dave. Dave Dave, figure out the math. It's more than a thousand. Dave, Dave,
you don't you can't Dave. I'm a chair. Dave, I'll mute you. Dave, I'm I'm sorry. Your your lawyer was speaking for you, you know. We gave I I give two minutes to everybody. One once I call upon them, you know, and I and and I and
I know that this is this is this is hard for you, but we have to run a math error. There's a math error that you're that you're overlooking. It's not a thousand square
feet. It's if you add it up, 39* 28 plus 8* 12 1/2 is 1075. That's all I'm saying. Thank you. And and so Dave, to that I'm talking 900. So they're going to have to redo their
plans is what I'm talking about. So, and I'm not supposed to be going back and forth with you, but thank you. Um, all right. So, back um Michael James. Um, you know, I'm look I'm I'm thinking
about making a motion to grant them whatever the difference is from 758 to 900. Uh, you know, I I'll do the math. So, through the chair. Yeah. I just this first of all I still think Sean brings
up an interesting point. I I I because I I really don't want to do things that we know are going to get killed in appeal. Um because if if it doesn't have the compelling
reason I mean we can or the hardship we have to do it criteria by criteria. The other thing is we if they're being denied the what they're requesting uh we we can ask them to come back with a different plan postpone this and come
back with a different plan or we can deny but I don't think we can do both. Okay. Uh so what I would suggest you know in more I don't think we're ready to I'm not ready to have a vote yet. I want to hear more discussion because I do think that um as you get older um I
I'm living with two people who are elderly myself. Space does become an issue. Space becomes an issue with furniture. It becomes an issue with the shower. It becomes an issue with the bathrooms because it has to be wide enough. We we made our bathroom so we
could get a wheelchair in there. Uh the the shower itself has a seat in it so it's larger. Um, all the doorways have to be ADA compliant, which is wide enough to get a wheelchair. So, the the distance between furniture has to be wider. So, things take more space as
you're looking at it. I don't find it a compelling reason so I can continue to work. I do find it a compelling reason so I can maintain my house and get around in my house, which is difficult if you're using a walker or a wheelchair. Um, so I do think
there's reasons to have something larger and I think the board has the authority. I'm pretty sure even with this because we've granted we've granted um um ADUs already, you know, for for over a,000 ft
when the town ordinance was 800. The town limitation was 800. So I do believe we do have the authority. Is it appealable? Absolutely. Um, but that's that would be, you know, something we'd have to consider.
Um, I'm going to ask Barb and Ron this. Have you considered reducing this or did you come up with alternative plans that would make it compliant that you'd have no other way have anybody stop you
through the chair? Yes. Uh we this is going to be our forever home regardless of the dimensions. We understand that we can build this by right for 758 square ft and we will
redesign it but it's it's going to make our elder years a lot more difficult and the next five or 10 years when we're still trying to work it's going to be a lot harder. So there there's a tremendous amount of medical and financial hardships that we see by not
getting some relief. 900 square f feet would would be significantly better than five uh 758 square ft. So, Michael, so we um Okay, Dr. So, uh
Barb and Ron, so um would you be amanable to coming? We can leave this. So, should we leave this hearing open, John, and they come back with new drawings, something closer to 900 square feet? Uh yes. So, I would have to check
because the notification uh what the notice say actually. Uh that was going to be my comment, but Mike already had said it, but yeah, you check to see what they would even do because you don't want to grant a variance because the variance runs with the land. So, if you grant
variance for something they don't even want to do, that changes their what their them and future residents on that property could do. Um, right. So that's what I'm just saying. So we keep the hearing open. Yeah. So I just want to make sure the um the
notice doesn't change that because we always ask people to come back with new set of drawings. Um I would keep the hearing open. The the notification the notice says in excess of 900 square f feet. So, if you
were to get a an application that was at 900 square f feet, I'd have to check and see if that notice would still be applicable, but you can continue the hearing and then um Okay. We can figure that out in the meantime and then if they need to withdraw and resubmit, they
can they can do that. Excellent. Rodman Ron, yes. Okay. Michael, would you would you make a motion to continue the public hearing to what June 11th? No, that might be a little tight to get new plans. Oh, yeah. Right. That's Julia. I'm asking to
change all the drawing. Good point. Um, so how much time, Rob? How much, Ron? How much do you think How much time do you think you need? Um, I I think the meeting after June
11th would would make sure that we can get the architect and the interior designer as well as as the engineering firm to get everything in place. That'd be June 28th. Or you think that's June 25th? Oh, okay. June 25th. Is that two weeks
after? Okay. Okay. So, all right. So, Michael, would you make a motion? I make a motion that we keep the hearing open and continue it until June 25th.
Second. We have a second. Okay. Folks, any chance I can chime in for two minutes? No. Okay. No. No. Um Okay. So, um we have a motion in a second. Uh
James, yes. Michael, yes. Ben, yes. Sean, yes. And I vote in the affirmative also. Okay. So, we're continuing this this discussion till uh June 25th. Thank you very much. Thanks everybody for
coming. Yeah, thank you for your time. Thank you. Do we have what what else do we have on the agenda? Do we have uh any minutes? Hey, Mr. Cohen, good to see you. Michigan. Yeah, I didn't get the u notice for the
uh password till 7:14 this evening. Oh, okay. Well, we we we we just basically had two continuances. So So you you can you're going to be able to jump right back in on them. All right. Um All right. So we'll suspend everything else to our to our next meeting. Um can I do
an official maybe a chat with you reduct two minutes literally? No. No. We can't we can't talk about the the thing once once we can't Yeah, we already we already made a motion on it, Max. Unofficial in nothing either. Okay. No,
no, sorry, Max. But thank you, but thank you very much for for your If you have question, if you have questions about the procedure or something like that, you can contact the town u the building department. They can they can talk to you about the procedures. But that's all that we can talk to you about. Um, I
just wanted to run by you my potential case. Uh, oh no, no, no, no. Absolutely. You can't do that. Oh no. Oh gosh, no. That would be really Thank you very much, Max. I appreciate I just wanted to I I'm kind of new to this. I'm the procedural part and the technical part.
I'm a licensed civil engineer, but I'm not particularly versed with, you know, the the procedural part of it, the law part of it. Right. But Max, so that's the best thing actually. You can you can go to the department of land use uh land use and uh land use and planning and um
and you you can see you can see anybody there, you know, uh Mike will help you. Mike Sevard, he's very good. Chris is our is our new building commissioner, amazing man. And and they'll absolutely help you with any of those questions you have. They'll fill out help you fill out your applications and everything.
They're really great down there. I've been I've been using them for 20 odd years. I'm not ready for any applications yet. I promise you. No, but they'll answer all your questions so you can put in quickly. Okay, but we have to but Max, we have to get back to to to journey on me. Roger. Yep. Thank
you. All right. This is a lot of fun. Any administrative tasks we have to do? I don't have the agenda in front of me because I uh I I came on this when I realized it was only four people and I got to take another minutes from the last
meeting. Why why don't we suspend that till the next meeting so I can read them if you guys don't mind? Yeah. Um Yeah, because I didn't expect to be on this one. Actually should be in bed. Um all right. So, uh uh if if anybody
nobody nobody objects, could I get a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. A second. Great. James, thanks for the second. Okay, we got a we get a motion in a second. Michael, how do you vote? Yes, James. Yes, John.
Yes, Dan. Yes, Arnold. Yes, and I vote in the affirmative. Okay, we are adjourned. Thanks, guys. Thanks for coming. Sorry I was delayed. I promise to not try not to be in the hospital next week. Hey, God bless. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, John. You
better back, buddy. Thank you. All right. Bye.